Transcript
Speaker: Hey friends, we're officially back from our Euro summer and we're ready to share our thoughts. In this episode, we're going to be talking about an unexpectedly sweet and profoundly beautiful part of my visit to Italy, the ways it drew me closer to family and my heritage, and how my true identity informs my stories.
Speaker: So join us for an episode about finding Italy and identity. Welcome to Twist and Turns, confessions of lifelong BFFs. Two best friends who know where the bodies are buried, metaphorically.
Speaker: After more than 20 years of friendship, we've survived chaos, heartbreak, answered prayers, questionable choices, and plenty of twists. We're not experts, influencers, or internet debaters. Just two friends talking honestly about faith, friendship, and God's goodness through all of it.
Speaker: Okay, let's pray. Let's it. God, you are so good and you are so creative and you are so generous in the ways that you invite us into your story and tell your story through our lives.
Speaker: We stand in awe of you, how creative you are. Lord, this is your story and we are singing your praises in telling it. And so we ask that you guide this conversation as only you can.
Speaker: And we surrender all of this to you. Take us where you want us to go, even to the places that we don't expect. We love you and we pray all this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Okay. Welcome friends to episode seven of twists and turns. We are in person, which you probably can tell from the background. We're kind of across the room from each other. but we are here together in person, in the flesh, which is so exciting. we i feel like we've gotten to do this much more often than I expected. We are, we're coming up on a year of doing podcasts. It'll be in just a couple of months. Wow.
Speaker: And we've gotten to do a fair amount of them in person. Yeah. Almost half. Almost half. We are ah fresh back from Euro summer.
Speaker: Super exciting. We were able to go to Italy together. Helena, you went to a bunch of different places. Would you like to share with the class? My family took a bit of an adventure before we got to meet up with our friend Nicole, as you all saw in the last episode. if you didn't it's worth a listen it's pretty good's pretty good we gotta get some good context my husband is an amazing planner our family started by a direct flight to london we took the train to paris which was super cool if anybody gets the opportunity to do that was really fun we flew to sicily so we met up with my dad his brother, my uncle, and my sister, one of my sisters. We got to spend time where my dad was born, meeting some new family members, seeing and catching up with family members that we've met. So we did all of that before meeting up. Then we kept going after that. Yeah, they didn't stop. We didn't stop there. We went to Rome for a few days and then we ended our trip in Florence. It's definitely a true test to say like, what is your family capable of? It was so funny for me because it was like I popped in, you know, midway through your trip and I was by myself. I felt like Mary Poppins. Like I could just come in and be like, dut here you go. Like, here, give me a kid. Here's a spoonful of sugar. Yes, 100%. And I think by the end of it, you just have to know what went wrong and be willing to acknowledge the good and the bad. All memories. We would just 100% do it again. and knew how to do it better.
Speaker: Absolutely. We had so much fun in Naples together. I'm trying to think of like favorite memories. So of course there was pizza making. Yes. That was so insightful. I felt like. Very insightful. He was like a little Yoda. Like he was just dropping wisdom bombs, you know, and not really meaning to.
Speaker: A guy who was leading. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, let me tell you about, you know, pizza dough and gluten and how you Americans. Like Helena's qualified to say this. I'm definitely not I have no sensitivities or allergies, but I was totally tracking with what he was saying. He was basically like, listen, these are his words, not mine. Don't come at me.
Speaker: But essentially what he said was is you don't have gluten problems. You're just not... taking enough time to let your gluten develop the way that it's supposed to. yeah We don't do anything different with our dough. We let it rest before we bake it. He's like, that's why in his very Italian accent, that's why you see people sit down in Naples and have a full margarita pizza and then get up and go about their day because it's not expanding in their stomach. And I was like, well, I don't know if that's true, but it makes a whole lot of sense to me because I did just eat that whole pizza and I feel just fine.
Speaker: So I did witness some very tiny people eating a very large amount of pizza. There's got to be something there. We got to see Pompeii. Yes. So fascinating. What was so interesting to me about it was, first of all, our tour guide was hilarious. Sweet little Neapolitan woman. She kept saying, okay, I'm my group. I thought you were talking about the one in Pompeii. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. That was definitely a man. He was good. He was very quick. He was an archaeologist. Yes. He was not there to play. He was going to tell you all the things and you better keep up.
Speaker: Yes. But the one on the bus was – yeah, she was very sweet and cute. I loved quoting my grupa. Okay, my grupa. But then she also – they have some dark humor over there. It's active volcano, really violent history with, you know, destruction in that area. And so it was like we're driving to Naples. Going up the mountain. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Which like, by the way, i could, as something in my body, like I could feel like this is foolish. Like, why are we on the side of an active volcano? Like this is dumb. I literally was just saying a prayer the whole time. Like, Lord, I know you're so powerful and you can wipe us out. In the blink of an eye, I get it. Thank you so much for letting us visit this place. to shoot Please don't kill us. Like, oh my gosh. But it was, she said something so funny because it was like, she was so sweet. It was so cute. And she was like telling us about how um dangerous Mount Vesuvius is and even more dangerous because it's capped at the top. So when it, there's so much pressure. So when it eventually erupts, cause it's like way overdue to erupt, it's going to be catastrophic. And she was like, and so when that happens, we will all be dead. And so think of us. And I was like, yeah.
Speaker: And then she just kept going. Like that was just like ah oh it is a- little baffling the amount of civilization that is knowingly living that close to something that is known to be deadly there is a whole city around the ruins of Pompeii. Like it's surrounding, like there is an active people live there and they're just going about their day. Like it's- It just speaks to the Italian stubbornness maybe. It's like- Yeah, like life's tough. We might know better, but I still want to do this. Well, just like, what you going to do? You know, there's a volcano. What are you going do? The lemons are very good here. Please, the lemons. It's not even fair. It's why do they get to keep all these lemons well because they have the volcanic soil i understand but it's still not fair oh i think it's i think that's a fair trade-off any other takeaways from um just italy in general i know you were you were in europe for a month but like just italy in general particularly like you know our time together like us with nicole with our families with your aunt uncle like i have appreciated being in a culture that didn't allow you to move at the pace that you would prefer just because you were there. wo That was hard for one particular family member mine. Not naming any names. Not naming anybody, but he knows who he is.
Speaker: It's just an instilled trait of his that Ain't nobody got time to be wasting and sitting around. Yeah. That is, you know, not to say don't continue to be on time and that kind of stuff, but it's all right to take a deep breath. I don't know. Yeah. I think for me too, I think it was pace was so...
Speaker: Good. And I think just, I want to be so careful how I say this. I'm not trying to be provocative for no reason. ah So take this with all the love in my heart as a fellow American who's proud to be an American. By the way, i was really struck by the value of the things that matter and time being one of them.
Speaker: You know, that time is to be savored. It's to be enjoyed. It's to be experienced. It's not to be given away so fully yeah for the exchange of money. You know, it's like we spend so much of our days trying to figure out how to maximize earnings. And in some ways, like, great.
Speaker: But also your time is actually more valuable than the wealth you can amass. I mean, there's beautiful things there and there's all kinds of things to do, but it's like, there's, there's so much more enjoyment in the simplicity of just existing. Right.
Speaker: And I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Just like sitting and having a cup of good coffee. Such good coffee. But I also like not only time in exchange for whatever kind of monetary gain and whatnot, but I think what are we doing with our time says something about who we are. i mean, this is just a true statement. Like what you do with your time is says a lot about you.
Speaker: what you value. It says what you value. Sometimes you can get sucked into, and I include myself in this, well, I have to appear as though my time is filled with all these good things. God forbid I don't have something good to talk about and explain what I did with my time today. Whatever that is for you, if you believe that, you know, what the Bible says to be true, God breasted Yeah. And i also, i mean, just to quote scripture, where your treasure is, your heart will be also.
Speaker: Just very simply put, Proverbs are so great for that. Yeah. Here's why we're having this conversation today. This was a very surprising, I don't know if it was as surprising for you as it was for me to hear about it, but you really had a profound encounter in the time that you got to visit your dad and your aunt's hometown. The reason we're having this conversation, because we like to clue you in on the why, you know, what's the point of this? We're not just aimlessly having conversations. We were we were talking about this, maybe it was while we were on the trip or maybe it was like right after the trip. And it was like, well, this is a conversation worth having just about- we were on that bus on our way up the mountain. Yes. And I was weeping because, so the the point of this is and and again, i'm going to say that that could be um triggering for um debate, but these are factual statements, not emotional or persuasions. We're not looking for a fight.
Speaker: And if you are, you can keep it on moving. I'm not a politician, nor is Helena to my knowledge. um No. Okay. We're not pastors. We are not apologetics. We are grateful believers in Jesus Christ and we are students of the word. And so hear me say this from that perspective, because that's where we're coming from. We are a nation of immigrants. Obviously, that's a very hot button issue right now. But the reality is the majority of us in the established nation of the United States came from somewhere else. So this conversation is really some revelations about identity that Helena learned through her heritage that we think are are so relatable. You know, this story is so specific to your family. And there are, you know, there are specifics of it that it's like,
Speaker: They're yours. But this is such a collective experience of just trying to make sense of what it means to reckon with like your your identity and how your heritage speaks into that. And so that's why we're having this conversation today. And it was birthed from our time in Italy, but specifically your family's time Italy. Your dad's hometown. Tell us about your visit. Your dad's hometown. What was that like? I think in order to understand why visiting my dad's hometown for our family is so impactful, I think we have to start with the reason why we are going back to visit and he didn't live there for his entire life. My dad has um two siblings. He has ah a brother and a sister.
Speaker: And my dad is the youngest. His parents, my grandparents passed away within a month of each other. And my dad was around 18 months. And it was sudden, correct? I mean, they had, and these are conversations that honestly, within the last few years, I have gained more context because I'm like, wait a minute, my Grandparents were both kind of sick on and off. So I think that them passing away was not necessarily a shock. They were still so young that there may have been an expectation that whatever it is that they had going on medically, they would have been able to overcome. There were very different experiences between the siblings. That's also a lot of new information to me because I only heard the story from my dad growing up and kind of imposed that on
Speaker: everybody like my, my aunt and my uncle and was just like, oh well they all just kind of came over and that's how it was. But the reality of it was they were separated and adopted at different times.
Speaker: Thankfully, my great grandmother was able to convince the family that had adopted my aunt to then also adopt my dad and my uncle.
Speaker: so that the siblings can all stay together. That even took a number of years until they were all together. I mean, there's a lot there. There's a lot of trauma. My dad is not able to remember because he was so young, but my aunt and my uncle were old enough to, you know, remember a lot more. And as an adult, it just lands so much differently. Now, when I say the story, it's like, you know, I see my child in their place. It's really
Speaker: Just hard to wrap my brain around. i mean, I just kind of dig in to like wanting to understand their psyche at those points in times when we were able to plan this trip. because we weren't sure if everybody was going to be able to come, to know that all three siblings would be able to be there in their hometown was so exciting to think about because they had not been there together. They had not been there, all three of them, together since 1958. Part of me just didn't have this expectation. like I didn't know what to expect because I had been there once before when I was a teenager. The way that we were received was very, very emotional because it was the generation that had seen my dad off. Like they literally placed him on a plane themselves and had to live with that new reality of what happened to their family. And he was what, six? So he was six when he ended up, when he was finally able to come over. You know, that in and of itself is just a wild story just to think of a child so young who doesn't even know his siblings at this point because they had been separated and just all of that. To get to the point that all of the siblings were together, we were able to go. my kids were able to be there. It just was something that I was very excited to get to experience. Just like honestly, just to be a witness to it. Like I just wanted to be there to observe
Speaker: yeah them, to have them all be able to speak into certain memories or locations. It was very emotional. I don't know a lot, but I know that there's a lot there. My hope was that it could just be this core memory that we as a family could just make and keep and and cherish. And I think we accomplished that. I remember in high school, you telling me, or maybe shortly after high school, about your experience the last time you went.
Speaker: Yeah. And I remember you talking about when the plane landed and your mom looked at your dad at that time and said, you're home. And you got she got so emotional about it. And at the time, it was like, oh, that's so sweet. But I did not understand. And I don't think you really necessarily felt the weight of it either.
Speaker: At that time. But now I think parenthood probably provides the right context for what it meant that he was going home. Like home is a foreign place in some in some ways, but there's some part of him that, you know, there's some part of us that. that resonates with that. And it's like, so for him to be able to go home, it was not just a joyful homecoming for him, but also for, like you said, this whole town, you know, and all these family members know the story and had to watch him be put on a plane and go across the ocean to a foreign place, you know, away from everything that he knew. And that's just such a different
Speaker: With not a lot of opportunity for communication. Right. You know, like, yeah so he got there in 1960, but it's like, I learned my grandmother and their adopted mom would write letters to each other and send pictures and and like that kind of things to keep the family informed of how they were doing. And like, gosh, like they couldn't even pick up the phone and call like a little, I mean, we're so used to Getting to see things so instantaneously, just so many layers there and just opportunities to learn what those experiences were like for them because I have the capacity to see things so differently. And and I know it had to have been difficult, but wanting to hear how they would explain that. in their own words has been like just having the opportunity to to ask those questions. I just feel grateful that I can just kind of lean in and ask. I remember you telling me about what your what your first experience was like. What were you, 12 the last time you went? I was 13. 13. Yeah. Not having an appreciation for
Speaker: the, the, the depth of hospitality and just all of the feelings, like certainly not having an awareness of any of that. It was like, you know, some of the things that you shared about, um, just the ways that they were seeking to relate to something that they, you know, that was not their experience, a totally different culture, but like trying to do that through the lens that they have and you as a 13 year old, just not really being able To receive that or understand I receive it at all. I mean, it was total. mean, I look back and I'm like, obviously can't do anything about it now, but it's like, they were so gracious and they were so just wanting to just make us happy and do anything and everything. Like if there was anything that I said
Speaker: I would maybe want to eat. Like my, I remember one of my aunts that we stayed with was like, okay, I'll make it. And she would just get up and she would make it. The food alone that they just took the time to prepare and just wanted to feed us, not only feed us, but feed us well. You know, I just wish I had more ability to appreciate it. Cause it was like, man, if I could just have that plate of food now, it would be so good. But now, like, how do you compare that to the experience you had this summer? What was that like to to be back and and tell us about what that was like to now have everybody, you know? My thoughts when getting ready for this trip was the generation that was growing
Speaker: so emotional. Whenever we came the first time, like they're no longer with us. yeah So I just assumed that this trip would be still special and we would still surely see family and visit, but it just wasn't going to feel the same. Like I just was preparing myself to say like, Hey, it's just different. It's to be expected. And there's like nothing right or wrong. it just the It just is what it is. So I think I kind of went into it expecting to not feel the level of excitement. Not that they would be rude and not have hospitality, but it just wouldn't be the same. We got to the town, you know, my dad is from ah a tiny little town outside of a bigger town. So we did a tour of the bigger town and and we had seen it before when we came, but you know, my kids and,
Speaker: my husband were just, you know, seeing it for the first time. And that was really fun to get to experience with them. my dad had planned, he wanted to do a dinner and just plan an opportunity for anybody and everybody. Like if we shared any bloodline anywhere, like you're welcome. Like we're just like, come on. Like we just wanted to have a dinner And so I knew he was planning that, but i just didn't, once again, i didn't know what to expect because my dad doesn't plan large galleries on a regular basis. Can confirm that's not like a- It's not like he's organizing, you know, large- Big parties, yeah. Events. And so i was like, I will be where you tell me to be. We'll be there. He found this really wonderful hotel with these lovely-
Speaker: people that were so happy and excited to help him coordinate. And he ended up inviting over 90 people. i was like, didn't even know that was like possible. I'm expecting like maybe 20 or something. And that being a decent turnout.
Speaker: And like over 70 people showed up. And I was like, this is bigger than my wedding. The video you sent me, I was still stateside when you sent that video, obviously. I haven't arrived in Italy yet. And I was like, oh my gosh. like And there everybody was like, there wasn't a single person at that table that was like,
Speaker: They may become, they may become. Yeah. but Every single person was like, hi. And there was like, and then the video of like these women all just like doting on your husband. And oh my gosh, that was so sweet. I think that was something that caught me completely off guard. The level of excitement and just so curious to get to know my family, i clearly look Italian. Like I did not marry an Italian man. really does not look Italian. just clearly is not Italian.
Speaker: And not that I honestly gave that it much thought prior, but it was like, not only was it not a problem, but they were just- so all over him. And he had no idea. i had no idea what they were saying, but they were talking to him like he knew exactly. Well, and the look on his face, like he felt the love. Like he, you know, I know he's very good at like managing relationship and like being gracious, but you could tell he was like,
Speaker: This is awesome. Like she was so happy. And it was many courses of food. The food just kept coming. There was so much food. I'm like, how, how what is happening? in between each course, I think there was like maybe five courses. oh my gosh. That sounds... Like an Italian meal. Every Italian meal had, they're just stuff you full. And they took the plates away that were like still full. And I'm like, I hope that the staff is going to eat really well tonight because this cannot go to waste. In between each course, they were like getting up and they were dancing. it wasn't just like, we're going to dance. It was like coordinated dances.
Speaker: dances that one of my cousins was instructing everybody to do. These were like tradition, like traditional coordinated dances that we were all doing. And it was hilarious. And they grabbed my husband who does not dance. It was like, you don't have a choice in the matter and you are getting in on this. You have no choice. No choice. And we'll give you context to that fun, fun little inside joke there. You know, it just was so fun. It was fun
Speaker: Like not being able to communicate and to have that much genuine fun. And then to have some of my cousins coming up to us with their translating apps. They had so many questions. And so they would sit there and like,
Speaker: ask their questions. And it was like, they wanted to know us. It was such genuine curiosity. They weren't being nosy. They weren't, they weren't knowing because they had an ulterior motive. Exactly. They're not trying to impress anybody. They were so genuinely like tickled that we made this trip.
Speaker: to see them. And it was like, they didn't take that lightly. That's the way it felt. If it was anything different, I was oblivious. And I got to see cousins that I had seen when I was younger. They do speak fluent English. So to get to talk about what's been going on in the last 26 years since I had seen them and they had children and we have families and we can now relate on a different level. And we were up Very late. That is something i did not realize was a cultural thing. i didn't call it a night until about 2 a.m. m We were just talking. We were just, you know, laughing.
Speaker: You know, had to put the girls to bed because they couldn't hang after a while. sure And by the time John got back, I'm sitting with a couple of my cousins and we're just laughing. And he's like, what's happening? We had been talking about, oh, wouldn't it be fun to come back to this hotel? Because it was just a really pretty setup that they had.
Speaker: And I was like, i would i would just love to come and we can like renew our vows. And we could just have a ah second wedding. And look at this backdrop. It's just beautiful. just like So that's when my husband walked up on us planning this hypothetical vow renewal. And so my cousin, of my cousins is telling him what's going happen.
Speaker: yeah And she's like, you will say yes again to Elena. He goes, doesn't really sound like I have a choice in the matter.
Speaker: She said, you have no choice. You have a no choice. have a no choice. So that was like, we kept repeating that the whole time in Naples. You have a no choice. You have a no choice. You know, to get to know cousins and they just wanted to know like, what do you do? like And like the fact that i stayed home with my girls, like they were like, oh, okay.
Speaker: I don't think they were expecting that. Yeah. Like me being an American and being a stay at home mom. But like, also I have some women cousins that are impressive, like with their careers. They just wanted to know what our life was like.
Speaker: As listened to you and and really even as I listened to your husband, like those things were so sweet, but it was, I think, so much deeper for you. Something clicked. You did not grow up in that place.
Speaker: You did not have a lot of recognizable, like direct influence from that place. And yet... That family resonated so deeply with who you are, your otherness in the United States and particularly in the South in the United States. Some piece of you was home there. Like you felt belonging that maybe you had not felt before. And that was really sweet to witness. Yeah. Yeah. Even unpacking it with my aunt, she shared something very interesting that she hadn't shared with me before. our uncle, so it was my great uncle, my dad's uncle, had said that our family in our hometown had a reputation for being very hospitable and very warm. Like it was noticeable. There's obviously some of those traits that I can trace back to my mom. Mm-hmm. to my mom's side as well, but it's like, it made me feel like I like to do that. Maybe it it is part of me because it's something that is from my family. It is something that makes you come alive. Like it's, you feel so much joy.
Speaker: in hospitality. Yes. Like it's not, you're not a Martha. It's not you running around like a headless chicken, like everything has to be just so, like it is, I want everything to be just so, but it's not stressful for you. It is such a joyful thing. You're like, I want people to feel from my heart that they are welcome in this place, whether it is hosting Bible study or whether it is hosting an out-of-town guest or your daughter's birthday or whatever it is. like That stuff is so – you're like, yes.
Speaker: Here I come. Yes. yeah You know, not everybody else is that way. That's not necessarily something that you could trace back to like, well, that's just like, you know, we came from the South and so whatever, like there wasn't that heavy of an influence. Like it's so much deeper for you. Like there's a heart behind it. And so sweet to kind of see that. your unbridled joy, the way that you express that in just like dancing and singing and being silly and all of those things that I think sometimes some, some Southern sensibilities maybe don't always appreciate or understand that. Like just in certain situations, you know, you live in kind of a um cardigans and pearl necklace kind of society, you know, where you're at in this bubble and it's like, that's your personality, who you are is, is
Speaker: Just not that. Yeah. I think what what kind of struck me, I felt so comfortable. no I have taken time to really do some soul searching around my identity. Specifically when trying to deal with, you know, insecurities, just lies that I've believed my whole life. Like you really have to take a hard look at what do you actually think about yourself? Like what is valuable to you because of the joy or the happiness or the memory or the tradition that it brings you? I've taken a hard look. at all the things that I've either been told were my identity or things that were just by default around me that I just kind of started adopting. And that's not always a bad thing. Like that's not what I mean. I may have at times subconsciously tried to disassociate with certain things that
Speaker: in my heritage, I felt like it was inauthentic because I am an American. It just made me feel like they wouldn't appreciate it if I would just walk around being like, I'm one of you. be like, um you're not. I got to the point where people would ask me like, oh, what's your heritage? I'd like, oh, I'm Italian. But like, I feel like but like when I was younger, it was like, you better know, because it's like a big deal. I just got to a point where I would just ask myself like, why is this such a big deal?
Speaker: And I was raised Catholic and I am not a practicing Catholic anymore. And then I started attending a church that was closer to the cultural practices that my husband grew up in. But a specific denomination, right? Like it was, it's not a non-denominational. It's not non-denominational, yeah but they... tend to lean more progressive. And I do not claim that denomination. And you also, at the same time, I feel like we're kind of fighting against that.
Speaker: Like i I've heard you say so many times, it was like of the same thing of like, yes, I am Italian heritage, but like, we don't need to, you don't need to label me as Italian. Yes, I attend this church. But but you don't need to call me this denomination. like And there was kind of a visceral resistance. Like it was, you had you had a yeah a very strong resistance to that. Yes, because it was like, if I start calling myself this It's like I'm allowing others to fill in these assumptions about me because of the you know traits of this whatever. yeah Label, church, denomination, and whatever it is. So I became very, very sensitive to anybody saying you are
Speaker: Fill in the blank. And then too, like I just felt so, yes, I was raised in a part of the country that could be considered Southern, but I never considered myself Southern. Yeah. Just there's not anything Southern about me. right All that to say, i have had conversations with my husband. We're comfortable at this point in our lives and in our marriage. I was more willing to go along, for an example, like doing something for a holiday. Like I was more willing to go along with doing something that maybe wasn't my first choice because it was like we were a new married couple. We didn't have a family yet or we had a new family. So we didn't have like an established like family. This is what we do. at times, I kind of felt like I was doing the things that were more comfortable to him based on the way that he was raised. Because we were doing things around holidays, you know, that were specific to the church we were going to, which was nothing like
Speaker: the church that I grew up in. I just would get really frustrated when there would just be comments, not like from him, but just like in general, if there's just like comments made about, you know how this is and you know that and right. And i'm like, no, i don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. like That is not my experience. I am a Christian. Yes.
Speaker: I attend this church. That doesn't mean I automatically know all these stereotypes and and inside jokes of your denomination. Yep. I don't know every Christian book that was a swing and a miss that the parents in the 90s read that screwed up society. No, I don't know these. Did not grow up in your specific brand of Christian culture. No, I i have a very specific brand of Christian culture myself. And I have a lot of jokes too that you don't get. That you wouldn't get. You don't get. i but Like my sister actually sent me something that was hilarious and I died laughing. Like it was very specific to if you grew up going to Catholic church. Yeah. And your husband was like, and I was like, oh my gosh. And I'm just cracking up and he's just like,
Speaker: I got nothing. Cool. Like I fought this, no, I'm not Southern. I fought, no, don't label me as Italian because I'm actually American. i didn't want to cling to something and then it not feel like it was a true representation of who I was. The lesson that I was learning was the more I grew in my faith, the deeper relationship I had with the Lord, the more I studied the Bible and learned your identity lies in Christ. You are to recognize the ways that you are not made for this earth. This earth is not your home. The reason you feel so lost, the reason you feel so homesick, homesick, like something's missing, it's because there is. Having that understanding and having that identity in its right order to then go on this trip and get to experience my earthly family and their overflowing fun, joy, love for us, I got to receive it on a deeper level.
Speaker: Really? It wasn't a ah panic, um desperate lack. Right. And expectation. Absolutely. You just had to receive. Yes. And it was like, it it didn't fill a void.
Speaker: There was no void to be filled. It was, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And like, oh, What an added bonus, an unexpected, undeserved added bonus that these people are desiring relationship with me and feel loved. To get to know my dad and my aunt and my uncle on a different level, a deeper level and get to appreciate the things that shaped them. And I just had taken so much time, especially in counseling, shout out to Joy. Shout out to Joy.
Speaker: Love you, Joy. Love you, joyy Whenever I would get upset about things or whenever I would just struggle to process, you know, just get angry about something. She constantly, for a very long time,
Speaker: had to bring me back in and say, why are you allowing this relationship? Why are you allowing this emotion to separate you from understanding your who you are in Christ?
Speaker: Preach joy. joy Joy, yes. And i hope anybody who is hearing this just hears that as encouragement, not to say like you haven't experienced it to some extent, but oh my gosh, when you really, really believe it and and lean in and just doesn't happen overnight and, and,
Speaker: you believe it every second. That's not the point. It's just part of your sanctification is just that deepening in relationship and God allowing you to experience him more and more to the point that you're like, I can't get enough and I want more. And then it's like, you just experience vacations differently. You experience your marriage differently, your experience, your friends, your family, your family, your your children, like everything is experienced so much differently when you ask for God to give you clarity.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think in particular with this, like you experience your heritage differently yeah because I think there is still a deep respect and appreciation for your heritage, yeah but it is, as you said in its rightful place.
Speaker: yeah So that, that there is not a person on earth. I will, you can try and prove me wrong, but you won't. There's not a person on this earth who does not have in the quiet moments, if they're honest with themselves, that longing. C.S. Lewis said it best, like homesick for a place we've never seen. yeah Like we know it in our core. We know it. The Bible says that God has set eternity on our hearts. And that's what that is. When we were talking about and planning this podcast, it was like, for me, i feel it in the, when I get a taste of something good, my spirit expects that it will continue
Speaker: Indefinitely. That's eternity because I know somewhere on a soul level, like where my home is. And I feel it in the tension of the brokenness here. That's why it's so much more heartbreaking because it's not supposed to be this way.
Speaker: And i feel it when I get a taste of something that is purely good. My heart desires for it to continue on and on and on and on because of the eternity that God has set on my heart and on your heart, friend, and on your heart, friend, everyone.
Speaker: And so there is ah there's a rightful understanding that we are all sojourners. We are strangers and sojourners on this earth. longing for our home that we will be together in. And also God is so vast, incomprehensibly and infinitely so, and he is infinitely beautiful.
Speaker: And his expression of himself in culture, in yeah different like heritage is so beautiful. And it is to be celebrated 100% because there's, so I mean, there's so many beautiful, rich, incredible things in all the different ways. that God expresses himself all across this beautiful world of ours and through all these different people groups, including the heritage that you, that informed your childhood. i mean, both of your parents, like Italian heritage, one of them like straight up Italian immigrant, the other one like Italian heritage, like very, very influenced by that. That has,
Speaker: a profound impact on you and it's beautiful, but it's not... who you are, who you are as a daughter of the King, right? Full stop. That's the difference.
Speaker: You know, it's a, there's not this desperate grasping for, i must identify with this group. I must identify this way. it is God is so beautiful.
Speaker: And, and I can experience that in my heritage because I recognize that God is so beautiful. There's another part of this story that's so important. Yes, you were able to to kind of reconcile the tension you were feeling of why am I so resistant to these labels and being able to embrace that like, yeah, I have Italian heritage, like that's my family and I'm proud of that, but that's not Like, that's not who I am. Also, i felt like the thing that that made me so emotional was the ways that you and your dad were able to – the ways that you were able to get to know him in stories that are never – that you – maybe they were told and maybe they weren't. Yeah. But again, the place that you are in your life now that it's like you can really appreciate –
Speaker: the journey that your dad and your aunt and your uncle went on to be where they were. So you've got a lot of context there. ah wonder if there's anything that you would want to share about just that connection piece and and and the way that you were able to do that through this experience. Yeah, because I think I left that part of the trip with more questions. Yeah. I got to see and experience things firsthand So then you kind of try to start connecting the stories with the place and the the people and, you know, everything's kind of all there in pieces. And you're kind of trying to put the jigsaw puzzle together to say like, well, if that happened, then that means that that happened. And even like things that they didn't even tell me, but like, you know, had to have been a circumstance or a thought or a fear. Like, how did you deal with that? because i had done the work to recognize and try to understand who I am in Christ and that being my identity. i think my dad and i have, I will say for myself, I hope he would agree, a few good opportunities to really be transparent with each other and honest and ask. I've asked just some really direct questions and purely to just get to know him and understand how he dealt with certain things and like that had to like, yes, being a parent and a spouse and having like life's responsibilities. You look back at your parents and when they were your age at this point now in your life, and you're like, holy smokes, like you did that? Like, that's what happened. Like, how did you deal with that? So I think my dad and i we've already had opportunities to kind of try to explore and ask questions and and get to know each other. but This particular trip, I was able to ask him questions in a way it wasn't like self-serving in any way. it had nothing to do with me, if that makes sense. I feel like you were getting to know him for the first time. Yes. In a different way. You know, like not just as dad, but as a human being yeah and and really like getting to know sort of separate yourself as his daughter and look at him as the man yeah just the human. And what was your life like before i had any knowledge of you? Because there's so much you know that happens to our parents before they become parents. Yes. This, I feel like, was such a beautiful opportunity for you to really see him. I mean, i felt like I, he is a main character in the landscape of my life, but always in the background. There wasn't a lot of, like, connection.
Speaker: You know what i mean? Whereas like, and we've talked about this, like I felt like it was maybe a little bit different with my parents and you. Like, I feel like they were a little more like, yeah I don't know. on the couch and yeah yeah Yeah. Like I feel like my interactions with your dad were a lot shorter, you know, there wasn't a lot of, and so hearing and understanding the man, it just helped me to understand.
Speaker: to understand how he got to be the man that is your dad. I think that that's probably true of you that I don't want to project, but it just listening to you, you know, the reason that we're even having this conversation is like us chatting, you know, on our way to Pompeii and you just kind of sharing these things about like what you now know about his life and how he even came to be in the United States. It's such an unlikely story.
Speaker: And a lot of it is so tragic. There's parts of it that it's like, if these things didn't happen this way. And I mean, the thing is like, if these things didn't happen this way, then his parents would have raised him. You know, it's not like it's so not the way anyone would have wished for it to happen. But we wouldn't be sitting here either. You know, you wouldn't have your girls. Your husband wouldn't have his wife. You wouldn't be born. Like it just, you know, you he would have probably stayed in the same place just like everybody else did. and lived happily ever after that way. For me, it's like, i look at this high level and it's like orphaned before he was two. Coming to the United States at a time and in a place in the United States that was um really inopportune. If he had you know moved to the Midwest you know and and just eaten potato casseroles, that would have been weird too. But like this was worse than that. It was
Speaker: Not a good thing to be Italian in the place that he was, you know, and he at six would not have had an understanding of that. That was part of some of my questions for him. And, you know, I learned the part of the city that they were in. Thankfully, they didn't have to encounter a lot of the kind of stereotypical things you might assume. But once again, things I had never crossed my mind to ask him, you know, there's that like I have such a different level of comfort with him, like where I could just be like, Hey, I want to ask you some questions.
Speaker: And like, you can say no, but like, you you know, that i have no ill will towards you in this. Like, this is just pure yeah curiosity. questions How dare you? Right. It's like, you know, it could just like, I could see that, you know, for some people, if like they're unhappy. They could just be like, and by the way, when I was three, can I send you my therapy bills? Right. Exactly. I just felt really grateful for that opportunity. And I told him that. I was like, that was so unexpected and so appreciated. Now I am in contact with several cousins and, you know, we can go and visit them, you know, for...
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: of this place to say, I want to go back or I know this cousin or i did this thing. He's like, that was really cool for him. So that was fun. i think the other part of this too, as you've been sharing with me, is just thinking about the fact that you are an American born to an immigrant. He is Italian. He's an Italian immigrant. with American children. That is such ah such a deeply resonant story in this country. There's so many so many kids are growing up right now, American, born in the United States, but their parents are immigrants. And there can be this, because...
Speaker: their parents are away from their home country. Like, yes, you can bring different culture. You can, you can bring the cultural influence and, you know, the pride and appreciation of, you know, your country of origin and your heritage, but there's still a disconnect. There's a context that your kids won't have because they're in America. you know, it's a totally different country. And so i do think that it was just such a sweet opportunity, like your dad said, for for you, like his kids and, you know, your husband and then his grandchildren to be able to witness like, this is my home.
Speaker: this is what shaped me. Like, this is what resonates with me as home. And it's so very different from your home, but it's so important to me. The way you described just his whole demeanor, I was like, oh my gosh, like it sounded like he was just a little kid again, just so happy to be there. I've always experienced him as a very serious, you know, like very direct, you know, and so just to to hear like, this is the place that he comes alive and know that your family got to experience that in a way that your girls will always remember that.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. They'll know that about their grandfather forever now. Like they'll get to know that on a deeper level. Like I think that's, It's an important thing to remember. Not everyone's going to get that opportunity. There's some disconnect in a lot of parent-child relationships in this country for that reason. and I hope that this is a good conversation starter for American-born children whose parents are not. There's a piece missing there, but it's like you can lean in and understand that you know in a way that's not like a
Speaker: we have to make this our identity. We have to cling to this, but a but a ah deep respect and appreciation for the place that birthed their parents. Yeah. And it's funny, even as you were just talking, we often laugh when we're going to visit our families because we're a husband and I are from the same city. We've said before, like there's just water everywhere, like a river, ocean. One of my kids was like, oh, a bridge. And I was like, why is that so exciting to you? It's a bridge. And she's like, water.
Speaker: I forget. We don't have rushing water where we, are I mean, we have like parks with some like streams and lakes and stuff like that, but there's not huge bodies of water. And so when they are around it, their reactions are so funny to us.
Speaker: I feel exactly the same way as they do, even still. Yes. A bridge, water. Thank you, God. bridge, yes. Look at the water. Yes. On a much smaller scale, like kind of similar, where my kids are not going to know what it's like to live that close to the coast. Water will not be a huge part of the landscape of their memories. Whereas for us, it was like such a major character. Absolutely. I think that too is just something that is a decent takeaway. Like it doesn't have to be a foreign country. could be down the street. it's a different street. i don't know. Just go talk. Go call your parents.
Speaker: Yes. Ask some questions. Moral of the story, call your parents. Call your parents. Be curious. Be curious. yeah Deal with your childhood trauma and then call your parents. I mean, was necessary for me. i got that Yeah. side It's not really a sidebar, just to add to that. there's ah There's a course, if you have never heard of it, it's called Emotionally Healthy Spirituality. That's the umbrella of it. But one of them is Emotionally Healthy Relationships, and it talks about unmet expectations. Ooh. And it says, as as you're evaluating like disappointed, you know, your own disappointment, the evaluation is, was my expectation communicated? Was it agreed upon?
Speaker: and was it reasonable? And if the answer is no, then who are you holding accountable for your unmet expectation? Because it shouldn't be the other person. But also when you show up to a foreign country and you expect it to be like home,
Speaker: You will be disappointed. Absolutely. Or when you show up anywhere that is not your home and you have an expectation that was not reasonable, communicated, and agreed upon, you're probably not going to have your expectations met. You're going to be disappointed. But- When you don't have those expectations, like you said, you leave so much room for joy. yes Delight. Go somewhere and have zero expectations and do some self-evaluation on, did you enjoy yourself? There was nothing to be left disappointed about. What I love about this is we went...
Speaker: to Italy, the two of us, you know, with the, with the expectation of just like connecting with a friend, which we did, obviously we got such a beautiful opportunity, but I feel like God was like, I have so much more for you on this trip.
Speaker: Yeah. What it was, was him saying, let me tell you about myself. Beloved, let me tell you about me and why that is so good for you. Bad things are going to happen. And that was not my design. That was not my intention.
Speaker: But even through these really terrible, unfair things that happen in this broken world, I will make all things new. And that message is so resonant through this vacation, this amazing vacation that we got to take in particularly your time in Italy and particularly your time in your dad's hometown. Like you left there. i mean, it was like, I got to experience it almost real time. It was like immediately after you guys are coming on the heels of that. And then we're all meeting up in Naples And I got to hear it from your perspective and your husband's perspective and your aunt's perspective a little bit. And like, that was so sweet because it was just like, it was it was fresh on your mind and stuff, but it was just like, wow. I mean, my heart broke for your dad and his siblings and just knowing, you know, 60 years ago what happened. But then also realizing like, wow, God, you really are amazing.
Speaker: So faithful, so faithful, um because there were so many hard things in this um experience, so many hard things. And you can look at this and you can say, how tragic.
Speaker: Or you can say, God is exactly who he says he is. yeah He doesn't owe us an explanation, but for some reason, and because he loves us, not for some reason, but because he loves us so much,
Speaker: He does explain himself sometimes. He does give us context. um And this context, he waited until just the right time. You wouldn't have been able to appreciate this in the same way in your Oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker: You know? Like, i don't think, you know, and and I wouldn't have appreciated it probably if I had come along either. i would have been like, volcano, guys. Yeah.
Speaker: Limoncello, guys. Man, they really do like to give you limoncello there in April. I still was like, limoncello, guys. Lemon sorbet, give me more. will take that all day. Smuggle some lemons in my suitcase. I didn't do it.
Speaker: Customs. Anyway, the the moral of this story is that our heritage is a gift, but our identity is Christ. Like that's the overarching moral, but also like – God is so good.
Speaker: And this is just another example of like, there's so many twists and turns in this story. You know what I mean? Like so many and God is who he says he is. You're here to testify of that like you exist because God is who he says he is. yeah And this story is just more, more to that. And so, yeah.
Speaker: Any, anything you want to add? Just, i encourage everybody to go see Italy. and If you ever get a chance to go out to Italy, go. Yeah. I don't, it's so funny. Cause like my husband and I, we talk about all kinds of international travel and there's a couple of other places that I'm like, look, we're planning. he Yeah. He knows now. So it's okay. Like we're planning an international trip. That's not a Italy next year, but also like always go to Italy, prioritize it. It's so good. I have noticed that like the feedback about that is like, what an American thing to say. Like whatever. Italy is incredible. Like, I'm sorry. Do you hate good food? Yeah. What are you, are you allergic to joy? Like, like, do you not like gorgeous landscapes? There's literally nothing cliche about Italy. There's nothing cliche about just pure goodness. It was good food.
Speaker: Good wine. Yes. Good wine. Good job, Italy. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Moral story, visit Italy. Visit Italy. And yeah. That is good. Friends, we are so thankful that you have joined us for episode seven of Twists and Turns, Confessions of Lifelong BFFs. And we want to say, as we always do, that this story is our love letter to God.
Speaker: And that is our primary and really singular focus is to glorify him in telling these stories. If it benefits you, which we believe it will, um that's wonderful, but we give all glory to God. If you think that this is something that would benefit someone else, please feel free to share it with them. However you're streaming this, you can share it that way. We are, yeah, just so thankful you've joined us on the journey and we look forward to you coming along on the next Twister Turn. So we'll see you next time. Bye guys.
