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Season Six: Holiday Episode Eight (2025)
125 Plays4 days ago
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:50
Speaker
This is True Crime XS.
Challenges in Episode Production
00:00:59
Speaker
You know, the closer it gets to Christmas, the more I try to like keep it under certain times, and I just never do it. And then sometimes like it's a really short episode that I'm like, yes, it'll be 40 minutes, but then...
00:01:14
Speaker
It's an hour and a half later and we're still talking and I'm trying to wrap it up. And I think that's particularly true for the holiday episodes because I know there's going to be so much to edit.
00:01:25
Speaker
I just want to point out, typically, like, if you have a time I try to stay within it, but I always have so much more to say about stuff. Yeah, I know. And like this one, so this is crazy. The the one we're doing today, just from like a perspective of like material that's available, like if you go on Wikipedia, which I thought about updating the Wikipedia entry, and like I stared at it for a really long time, and then I was like, you know what, like I don't think...
00:01:58
Speaker
everybody understands what happened here and I don't really want to be the one trying to edit it because all your stuff is visible in Wikipedia.
Controversial Case Overview
00:02:06
Speaker
And like, I just didn't want people to come at me on this particular case because in my opinion, this case is so horrible.
00:02:14
Speaker
Um, it, it's very tragic and the way that they sort of excuse the government for it all,
00:02:25
Speaker
is wild to me. and I know use that word a lot, but this is genuinely like one of those things that when I look at it, I'm like, what in the world? So I'll go ahead and throw this out there for people.
00:02:40
Speaker
If this case is like something you want to look at, um there's like a hundred pages of it that you can go and read. i think it's at oag.ca.gov.
00:02:53
Speaker
I know that if you go... And look for the girl's name. You'll find it. So this case is from 2022.
Focus on Savannah Graziano's Case
00:03:00
Speaker
It's a couple years ago. You and I talked about it like right as it was happening, like in kind of real time.
00:03:07
Speaker
um But the report that I am using as my source today was not actually released to the public until March of 2025.
00:03:21
Speaker
So I got it in March of 2025. i sat on it for a while and I finally read it. I knew what was going to be in it kind of I was interested to see like the take from like how many investigators had put this together.
00:03:36
Speaker
um i wasn't disappointed in the report itself. I did feel like it was a pretty thorough job. um I was a little disappointed in in the kind of the weak recommendations they made.
00:03:51
Speaker
ah This is the case of the taking of Savannah Graziano. And I say that because like it has so many elements to it.
00:04:03
Speaker
And I'm going to kind of give a summary, and then I'm going to go through like in detail what happened. And, you know, we're we're doing holiday episodes. I swear there's some lighter fare coming up. um I know some of the stuff we've covered...
00:04:18
Speaker
In the last couple of days, in terms of the holidays, has been pretty dark. um This one more so than usual. ah The coverage for this, I think at one point Dateline maybe covered it. I know NBC News did.
00:04:35
Speaker
I know it has a Wikipedia entry that's a couple paragraphs long. um But this is about 15-year-old girl. And i was absolutely flabbergasted at how this went down. I will say California has an interesting thing going.
00:04:53
Speaker
So there's an assembly bill in California that was signed into law back in September, 2020. So during the pandemic, it became effective July 1st, 2021.
Background and Incident Details
00:05:03
Speaker
It was an interesting bill. It's called bill 1506.
00:05:10
Speaker
The California Department of Justice, or the the DOJ in California, they're required to investigate all incidents of use of force any time an officer is involved in causing the death of an unarmed civilian. And they specify in there that shootings are included.
00:05:29
Speaker
um These are incredibly controversial issues at times. So making this law and kind of codifying it basically said that there is a body within the Department of Justice in California that will investigate and review for potential criminal liability, any incident involving an unarmed civilian that has a confrontation with law enforcement.
00:06:00
Speaker
Weirdly, like the person that we're really talking about here is sort of collateral to all of that because the way they justify it is that there's another person involved.
00:06:13
Speaker
um They do give very interesting background. um We can summarize this in just a couple sentences. So I'm not going to do that. I am going to go into detail because i feel like it's it's worth it and it's important.
00:06:30
Speaker
um We go back to September 26th of 2022.
00:06:34
Speaker
To take a look at this and how it all unfolds It is a taking um there are deaths involved here know it's the holidays, but there are deaths involved in this particular hostage taking And there it's sort of an unusual situation in some ways and in other ways. It's really so Rudimentary it's like very kind of run-of-the-mill But on September 26th 2022 at around 7.30 in the morning, a man named Anthony Graziano got in an argument with his wife, Tracy Melinda Martinez.
00:07:11
Speaker
They were arguing in front of a school in Fontana, California called Cypress Elementary School. So this argument takes place ah inside and around a white 2017 Nissan Frontier pickup truck.
00:07:26
Speaker
For the record, A big chunk of this is caught on the school surveillance camera, but it's at a distance. Not great video. um According to witnesses at the time, they saw Anthony Graziano punch Tracy Martinez during this argument.
00:07:44
Speaker
So Tracy Martinez is in the front passenger seat. In the back seat is ah their 15 year old daughter. That's so Tracy Martinez and Anthony Graziano. They have 15 year old daughter named Savannah.
00:07:59
Speaker
So, Ms. Martinez is attempting to get out of this pickup truck, but she's clearly in the video, even from a distance, being restrained. She opens the front passenger door. She puts her feet outside of the truck, but you Can't tell exactly what's happened, but it looks like the top half of her body is unable to get out of either something that's going on with the seatbelt or more realistically, the driver, Anthony Graziano, has reached over and is holding her in place.
00:08:33
Speaker
So in the video, you see Savannah Graziano get out of the truck's backseat and she closes the door of the vehicle and then returns to the backseat of the truck.
00:08:47
Speaker
They say there's audio. I haven't heard the audio on this video. The only version of it I have seen is silent. um But they say that Miss Martinez, Tracy Martinez, is heard on the video repeatedly screaming, no, no,
Police Response and Pursuit
00:09:00
Speaker
no.
00:09:02
Speaker
So during this argument...
00:09:06
Speaker
Anthony Graziano backs the Nissan Frontier up and hits a Honda Odyssey that's driven by a person that's referred to throughout all of this as Witness One, who has his nine-year-old son that he's dropping off at Cypress Elementary School.
00:09:22
Speaker
Fifteen is way too old for elementary school, so we know at this point that Savannah's really just a passenger in all this. She's not actually going to school. So after he backs into this Honda Odyssey, Anthony Graziano drives away.
00:09:38
Speaker
That person follows him in the Odyssey. And the Nissan Frontier is stopped. And Anthony Graziano gets out of the vehicle and he brandishes a black semi-automatic handgun.
00:09:54
Speaker
And according to witness accounts, including witness one and his son, He fires twice and strikes the Honda Odyssey. There is some video of this. It's some kind of home security video. It might even be like an like a doorbell camera. There are different angles of this that we can see. They're not super clear.
00:10:17
Speaker
But while we're able to see what's happening, um it's clear that the whoever was driving the Frontier gets out and is shooting off a Honda Odyssey.
00:10:29
Speaker
And while this is happening, Tracy Martinez gets out of the Nissan Frontier. And runs. Right. And so that was right after he backed up into it. Right. Right. Like there's like a, they're brief distance away. So they're out of the first camera frame into a new camera frame. i think basically they pull out into a neighborhood that's next to the elementary school and they're kind of between the two.
00:10:52
Speaker
Okay. It's not very hard. And just think to yourself, like, what that would be like. You're just... I don't know what witness one and his son Saul, right? Right. But all
Tragic Outcome and Aftermath
00:11:01
Speaker
of a sudden, you got hit by a car. Now you're being shot at.
00:11:04
Speaker
Right. And seeing... I don't know how to explain it to people. and I'm sure there are some people in the audience that understand this. Seeing a gun pulled out and shots fired in public is jarring, particularly when it's like 7.30 in the morning and you're at your kid's school dropping them off.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, it would be jarring for me about 10 minutes later when I finally realized what happened. Right. So... While she's running away, so Tracy Martinez has gotten out of the Frontier's passenger seat. She's running because Graziano is focused on he's focused on shooting at the Honda Odyssey.
00:11:39
Speaker
And then suddenly Anthony Graziano, he turns towards where Tracy is running and he fires a handgun in her direction. She is struck by gunshots and she falls to the ground.
00:11:52
Speaker
And Anthony Graziano gets back into this Nissan Frontier and he drives away. Savannah Graziano is still in the backseat of the car. So Fontana police, the officers that are responsible for this jurisdiction, they arrive.
00:12:08
Speaker
And Tracy Martinez identifies Anthony Graziano as the person who had shot her. She is transported to the hospital where she's treated, but she subsequently dies of her injuries.
00:12:20
Speaker
And the Fontana police department talks to the district attorney and secure a warrant for Anthony Graziano's arrest. The California Highway Patrol then activates the Amber Alert system, and they put one of those brightly colored flyers out or bulletins that ah sort of briefly details what's happening.
00:12:47
Speaker
and all it says is California Highway Patrol,
Legal and Public Ramifications
00:12:50
Speaker
Amber Alert, child abducted slash taken, armed and dangerous. And then it says suspect. And it has all the particulars for Anthony Graziano, who was described as five feet four inches tall, 150 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, wearing a white shirt, dark shorts. He's 45 years old.
00:13:09
Speaker
says he's driving 2017 Nissan Frontier with a California plate 44305G2. And it says this Amber Alert has been activated by the CHP on behalf of the Fontana Police Department. And then it describes under the word victim, Savannah Graziano, 15 years old, 5 feet 2 inches tall, 110 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, and unknown clothing. And it has multiple...
Case Analysis and Recommendations
00:13:38
Speaker
um what looked to me to be like lifetime photos from traffic cameras and probably surveillance cameras of the Nissan frontier, like the exact Nissan frontier.
00:13:49
Speaker
And then it just says at the bottom, Savannah Graziano was last seen with her father on September 26, 2022 at approximately San Bernardino County. Um,
00:13:59
Speaker
in fotana in san rennaino county um In this report, they've gathered all the social media that went out from the different ah police information officers.
00:14:13
Speaker
And those expand a little bit, like with pointing out some of the stickers that are on the car. They describe this as a domestic violence incident that left Cypress Elementary School temporarily placed on a lockdown as a precaution.
00:14:31
Speaker
so There's some unrelated people here that the Fontana police go and speak to. Specifically, they talked to ah Anthony Graziano's sons. They labeled them as F1 and And learned that...
00:14:44
Speaker
and we learned that ah the from from the sons which calling them f1 and f2 the reason for that in case people just want to know what that stands for it like the w1 witness one f1 f2 is family member one family member two so
00:15:10
Speaker
They learned, the police, from these family members that Anthony Graziano had called each of the sons a short time after he killed Tracy Martinez. And he told them he killed Tracy Martinez.
00:15:27
Speaker
And he somehow indicated to the two of them that he was going to kill himself. And then he hung up the phone. Both sons immediately started trying to call their father back. But...
00:15:38
Speaker
ah Anthony Graziano had turned off
Conclusion and Reflection
00:15:40
Speaker
the phone. Savannah Graziano answered one phone call and said that they had to go. The other phone calls to the two of them went unanswered.
00:15:52
Speaker
So the police investigators that come to the scene to investigate... like sort of this ongoing incident. And I think it's happening where Tracy Martinez is off to the hospital and being treated.
00:16:06
Speaker
So we don't know for sure that it's like, she's dead yet. um But they're treating it like the potential is there. And that's why they're interviewing the family members so quickly.
00:16:20
Speaker
They find out from the sons that Anthony Graziano has a storage unit in Fontana. So they obtain ah a warrant for the storage storage unit and they conduct a search. And I don't know how quickly this all happens, but I imagine it's...
00:16:34
Speaker
pretty fast based on like some of what we're about to talk about in this storage unit whenever they go in there the officers find six rifles three handguns two rifle lower receivers so like the bottom parts of guns that are missing the barrel and some of the fire control pieces They find over 10,000 rounds of ammunition, 14 smoke canisters, 20 rifle and handgun magazines, a night vision scope for one of the rifles, and a bulletproof vest.
00:17:10
Speaker
So I'm sure that doesn't give them a lot of positive vibes to know that this guy has that many things. But even with that many firearms, that may...
00:17:23
Speaker
essentially weapons and accessories, hopefully they're all here, right? Right. So the day unfolds kind of strangely from there. And we pick up again Tuesday, September 27th at around 10, 15 a.m. where we meet witness number two.
00:17:44
Speaker
So witness number two is the manager of a pilot travel center over in Boren. b o r o n According to this witness, they see Savannah Graziano walk into the mini-mart within the pilot travel center gas station.
00:18:02
Speaker
She buys two sodas, she pays for their gas, and there's a customer there who gets the title witness three. That customer says to the manager, that's the girl from the Amber Alert.
00:18:18
Speaker
So... The manager sees Savannah get into the white Nissan Frontier and sees the vehicle leave the pilot travel center and travel north on US Highway 395.
00:18:32
Speaker
And that's in the direction of Highway 58. The manager calls 911 and explains what they just saw. This is 1015 AM. At 1025 AM, at ten twenty five a m Another witness described as witness four sees the white Nissan Frontier they believe matches the vehicle described in the amber alert crossing through the intersection of Highway 395 and Highway 58.
00:19:00
Speaker
fifty eight And he dials 911 and reports that he has seen the vehicle and he calls out the license plate. So the information about these two sightings of this Nissan Frontier and potentially Savannah Graziano is passed on to the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department.
00:19:25
Speaker
And so that happens at 1034 a.m. m So from the moment this starts to the time that there's a be on the lookout is about 20 minutes. It's between 1015 and 1034
00:19:39
Speaker
so deputies assigned to apple valley and barstow are the ones who receive this information and At 10.37 a.m., San Bernardino Sheriff's Department Sergeant Darren Gilmore is dispatched to this call.
00:19:57
Speaker
And someone, I don't know if it's they mean him or someone working alongside him, they request air support, meaning at this time and this location, it would be a police helicopter.
00:20:11
Speaker
So by 10.45 a.m.,
00:20:14
Speaker
Darren Gilmore and a canine detective named Michael Chavez, they have seen the white Nissan Frontier with ah the correct license plate, even though they got like some of the numbers from Witness 4, who he doesn't give the exact plate, but he gives them piece of it.
00:20:36
Speaker
They see it traveling eastbound on Highway 58, and they attempt to catch up with the car. So the car then enters I-15 southbound, and two additional deputies, David Johnson and Kimberly Cabulan, they're about three-quarters of a mile or so behind Sergeant Gilmore.
00:21:03
Speaker
So Darren Gilmore continues following the Nissan Frontier, and he's on the radio. He's broadcasting his following. He lets dispatch know that they are passing the Linwood Road exit.
00:21:17
Speaker
And Detective Chavez, the canine officer, broadcasts that he is near the outlet center drive exit. So by 10.52 a.m., Sergeant Darren Gilmore broadcasts that he is going to attend to catch up with the Nissan Frontier, but that the speed they are pulling is over 113 miles per hour
00:21:42
Speaker
At 1053 a.m., the radio call indicates, ah coming from Darren Gilmore, that shots have been fired. It says shots fired, shots fired, taking rounds, shots fired.
00:21:54
Speaker
So the way that we are clear on that is it's recorded in real time by what's known as a belt recorder. which is secondary to a body-worn camera.
00:22:09
Speaker
um At this time, though, the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department did not utilize body-worn cameras. um So this would have been just audio that we got.
00:22:20
Speaker
And on this audio, you can hear him broadcasting, talking into dispatch. You can hear his responses. And according to this investigation, you can hear the sound of impacts on his patrol car.
00:22:37
Speaker
And after all this is over, inspecting Sergeant Darren Gilmore's patrol vehicle is they're going to find out that he has two bullet holes in the upper right windshield.
00:22:50
Speaker
So I don't know if they mean looking at the car from the nose or like from inside. i picture it as being from inside because of the location of the bullet holes, but I didn't see them on the upper right um for visual reference for people who can't see all the pictures I've gone through.
00:23:11
Speaker
If you're looking out the windshield where the mirror is, what I saw that looked like bullet impacts is on the right side, like kind of where a passenger would be seated.
00:23:23
Speaker
That's what I see. Okay. I think they're talking about from the driver's seat. From the driver's seat. Okay. So the next broadcast is watch out, watch out, watch out.
00:23:34
Speaker
And then Sergeant Darren... Gilmore over the radio addresses Michael Chavez. He says, canine, are you okay? And he says, I'm going to check on the canine now. He's off in the desert. So he says, canine five shots fired. I'm code four.
00:23:53
Speaker
And again, on this belt recorder, we can hear the sounds of gunfire that's been captured. i think this ah capture comes from detective Chavez's belt recorder.
00:24:07
Speaker
ah He has now also said that he fired rounds at the Nissan Frontier because when this is happening in real time, officers talking out loud and over the radio, they're trying to indicate everything they're doing to capture it for exactly this type of examination after the fact.
00:24:24
Speaker
We do not know if any of the rounds he fires during this time strike the Nissan Frontier, but when they go back and examine Michael Chavez's vehicle, it had three vehicle holes in the bumper and the radiator.
00:24:43
Speaker
That vehicle ended up being disabled on I-15 South, about a quarter mile ah south of the outlet center drive on-ramp in Barstow, which came up in the course of the broadcasting.
00:24:58
Speaker
So at this point, Sergeant Gilmore pulls off I-15 and he checks on Michael Chavez. Michael Chavez, so Sergeant, Detective. So Sergeant Gilmore, Detective Chavez. Detective Chavez leaves the disabled vehicle, and he buddies up with Sergeant Gilmore and gets into his front passenger seat.
00:25:21
Speaker
So they continue on I-15. The broadcasts coming over the radio are now coming from Michael Chavez. He says the suspect is shooting out of the back window through the open back window.
00:25:37
Speaker
He asked dispatch to notify the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department's Victorville station that the suspect is heading towards them. And he requests that Apple Valley station deputies respond to I-15 to the freeway perimeter.
00:25:53
Speaker
At 1157 a.m.,
00:25:56
Speaker
Deputy Johnson reported that the Nissan was passing vehicles on the right shoulder. Sergeant Darren Gilmore broadcasts, just for info, two rounds impacted my front windshield. We're still in. and the airship for San Bernardino Sheriff's Department responds, can we confirm if there is a child in the car?
00:26:20
Speaker
Sergeant Gilmore responds, two people in the vehicle, and dispatch advises medics to stage and to respond about upon confirmation that someone has been wounded by gunfire.
00:26:32
Speaker
I'm going to pause for just a second. So we're 24 hours out from what is essentially a cold-blooded murder of a mom in front of an elementary school.
00:26:44
Speaker
And we're about an hour and 30 minutes out where we have potentially witnessed the 15-year-old child. She's mentioned in the 911 call from the pilot travel center manager saying,
00:27:01
Speaker
In my opinion, that is confirmation there's a child in the car. What do you think of all this so far?
00:27:09
Speaker
Well, i remember this happening. Yeah. and i I think that one of the number one things about this entire situation would be to save the child, right? That's what i think, yeah.
00:27:25
Speaker
And so otherwise, like, you know, what are you doing? Like, just I mean, he's got to stop at some point, right? Yeah. I mean, if, and so I find it a little bit odd that that wasn't emphasized, right? Yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
In fact, he responded, there's two people in the car. Well, that doesn't answer the question. i don't think he knows, though. i don't think he's haded I don't think he's had a close enough look at what's happening to know who's in the car.
00:27:53
Speaker
Okay. And that's possible, right? Yeah. And in that type of situation, now there We got a lot of information just now, and maybe you can kind of sum it up, or maybe I need to look. But right now, they're chasing a vehicle that's had a bolo on it, right? As part of an Amber Alert.
00:28:13
Speaker
As part of an Amber Alert. Yeah. And so that's what they know. That's what they know. I'm talking about, like, within the field. Now, the fact that there's an Amber Alert, I mean, right? Right. I mean, this is not 1995. Like, everybody has active computers. Even though these guys don't have body cameras at the moment, there are recording devices going. I believe there's dash cam footage. There's...
00:28:37
Speaker
ah multiple audio recordings going on. there are phones, there are radios. There's a lot of conversation happening that we have record of, even just on the radio. So they should know, in my opinion, dispatch probably put a note in that the whole reason we're doing this is not just that the car has been sighted, but also that the girl was sighted with the car at the initial witnesses.
00:29:03
Speaker
um Like what made the initial witness call it in at the, the, pilot travel center right okay so that's sort of where i'm at with it i realize maybe they haven't they can't tell for certain but you know it is a 15 year old right yeah not a little kid and it's it seems like hate to compare them to like ants marching but like it seems like in the chaos of all this a lot of people don't know what's going on
00:29:35
Speaker
I would agree with that. And like so far, we've really... And that's alarming, right? It really is, because these are the people who are definitely supposed to know. Well, right. And all they're trying to do is like stop the vehicle at whatever cost. or I don't even know what they're thinking. well You have to balance that out and wonder to yourself...
00:29:58
Speaker
Like, what are we doing? Like, is there a kid in the car? Well, if there's not, what are we doing? Right. So at this point, that's a really good point. um and And that's sort of what happens in the terms of this report. So we've been following the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department deputies.
00:30:16
Speaker
Now, the report gives us a slight backup here so that we can understand how some of those ants who were marching came to be. And one of the first things that we get is, like, even though we're at 1157 in the timeline, we go back a little bit and we have the California Highway Patrol.
00:30:38
Speaker
So at 1101, California Highway Patrol begins broadcasting, and they are recording audio and video. Even though the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department doesn't have body cameras, there's a lot of audio and video in the CHP officers and in the helicopter.
00:30:57
Speaker
So this helicopter is marked H82, and that's how it dispatch reads it as a unit. They confirm at 1101 that they see the Nissan Frontier, and they broadcast that they are overhead, and they point out they're recording everything that's happening.
00:31:15
Speaker
The Nissan Frontier at this point in time is on I-15 South. It's just before what's known as the Dale Evans exit. At the same time, we get that deputy, Deputy Johnson. He comes over the radio and CHP hears him saying that the suspect is continuing to fire out of the back windshield, which dovetails with what Sergeant Darren Gilmore said.
00:31:42
Speaker
He that there's multiple shots fired and that they're coming up on the right-hand shoulder continuing to fire. He says there are at least two occupants and they're continuing to fire out the back window.
00:31:54
Speaker
So that is part of what the California Highway Patrol gets in terms of joining this and getting the radio coverage. At 11.02 a.m., Deputy Johnson, David Johnson,
00:32:08
Speaker
He broadcast out, I believe he may have shot my vehicle once or twice. And this is going to be confirmed later on, that his patrol vehicle has at least one bullet.
00:32:20
Speaker
I can't tell if there's a strike or a ricochet in there, but I can tell you that at this time, Deputy Johnson requests of the California Highway Patrol that they provide an airship that has, quote, lethal coverage.
00:32:35
Speaker
And I've never heard of that. It's absolutely terrifying to me to think of a police helicopter going along, which I guess this is the standard, with some kind of weapon on board that's going to be shooting from the sky. god knows That's exactly what I envisioned, like just taking out everybody on the highway. Well, I mean, they have troubleshooting. Obviously, none of the people here...
00:32:57
Speaker
I don't know who else are turning fire. i They shouldn't be. That's what I was thinking. Well, were they? I don't know yet. All I've heard is them talking about being hit. That's what I've heard, too. And clearly, nobody's dying because there's not a lot of aim going on here.
00:33:13
Speaker
Well, right. And they said that he's firing out the back of the vehicle. Right. And and he and he's driving. Correct. My thought on all of that, it's it's very...
00:33:27
Speaker
great excitement for movies right it is but it's absolutely terrifying when it's happening like in real time in real life in a real world real world environment right but it's also the chance for like every single law enforcement officer to use all the training and experience that they got i mean training not experience really training experience all at once right they get to use all these things they never use it kind of is yeah it kind of pumps them up and it's It's just everybody needs to be focused on the same outcome, right? Right. I do think it's possible that the wanted homicide suspect right drowned out the Amber Alert. It could be, yeah. I mean, they it could be. It could be they thought that they were rescuing someone, but it's going to get weirder here in a second. 11.03, we get a broadcast from a deputy who was in pursuit. ah His name is Kent Watson. He's partnered with a deputy named Daniel Gonzalez. They broadcast that the suspect vehicle is in the number one lane southbound on 15 and that they just fired a shot out the passenger window. So we're following it down 15.
00:34:37
Speaker
At 11.04, the deputies behind Darren Gilmore, they report that there's something going on inside the Nissan, particularly Deputy Kimberly Cabulion. She recognizes that something has happened, and at this point in time,
00:34:56
Speaker
We have two helicopters in involved. so Oh, is the other one the lethal force one? Yeah. So we now have in the air. Do we know that for sure?
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah. So they did respond. yes so Yeah. So they come over the radio at this point. So in the air, we have the California Highway Patrol airship. And according to this report, which I believe has been vetted for mistakes, there's a second airship helicopter, and that's San Bernardino Sheriff's Department's helicopter.
00:35:28
Speaker
It broadcasts that it is now prepared for lethal force. Sergeant Gilmore comes back into the mix with some of what we heard earlier, but he does state that the suspect is actively firing. Witness 5 comes into play here. They're traveling on I-15 South when they notice the vehicle pursuit coming up behind them. So part of this is recorded on cell phone.
00:35:51
Speaker
The video from the cell phone shows the witness driving in the number two lane, so the second lane to the right of center. And the Nissan Frontier is in front of him.
00:36:04
Speaker
witness ah Vehicles involved here are marked sheriff's vehicles, a Chevy Tahoe and a Dodge Charger. They have their lights and sirens activated, and they pass the witness on the left-hand side.
00:36:17
Speaker
According to this witness, and some of the video seems to back this up, there was a rifle pointed out of the front passenger window of the Nissan Frontier, and it opened fire.
00:36:30
Speaker
He describes hearing 20 gunshots.
00:36:34
Speaker
But witness five is going to tell everyone after the fact he could not tell who was firing what shots, but the vehicle swerve. And additionally, nine additional vehicles pop up in this video. And in the witness statement here, they all appear to be Ford explorers from the San Bernardino sheriff's department with their lights and sirens activated following behind in pursuit of the Nissan Frontier. A bullet strikes the truck and appears to disable the radiator. It ends up with a radiator fluid leak and essentially is left out of this.
00:37:15
Speaker
At the same time that this is happening at 11.08 a.m., this is when Deputy Johnson also broadcasts that he's taking rounds and his vehicle is disabled. He says, I have rounds through the front windshield, and I believe I have a round through my engine. So he ends up with an injury to his eye, which is I believe is from...
00:37:34
Speaker
the vehicle being hit across the windshield and splintering happening. But there is a bullet that ends up in the front passenger headrest that they find after the fact. So after this broadcast that he's going down, a deputy named Deshawn Jones broadcast, this 17 met two, we just took rounds from the on-ramp at the Nisqually exit.
00:37:58
Speaker
So this is another exit that their Nissan Frontier is going past. At the time, they would have been driving under and over past. But you can hear the sound of gunshots on its belt recording.
00:38:10
Speaker
At 11.09 a.m., the Frontier is going to be coming up Bare Belly Road. And Deputy Kimberly Kablunian, she broadcasts taking rounds.
00:38:21
Speaker
The sounds of those gunshots are captured on Deputy Deshaun Jones' belt recorder. Deputy Kent Watson's broadcast out that they just took a round through the windshield.
00:38:33
Speaker
So there's a sound of a bullet strike ah to the windshield that is heard on multiple belt recordings for Watson and Gonzalez. There are injuries that end up affecting Watson. He has gunshot wounds to his right bicep and to his hands.
00:38:52
Speaker
Deputy Gonzalez is not injured in that is part of the incident. So the pursuit continues past Bear Valley Road. And there's another witness driving over the overpass for 15.
00:39:06
Speaker
And she sees a pursuit and hears gunshots. And as she stops to make a turn, her car is hit by a bullet above the passenger side door.
00:39:19
Speaker
So opposite her, but that bullet ricochets into the vehicle, hits her in the face and cuts her rip and it comes to a rest on the rear floorboard of the vehicle.
00:39:30
Speaker
that's So ricochets are interesting to me because like you can really have nothing to do with something and still get hit. It sounds like you can get like straight on hit.
00:39:41
Speaker
Correct. At 1110 a.m., that other airship, which is from the Sheriff's Department, it is 40 King 4, as opposed to h eighty two which is from the State Highway Patrol.
00:39:55
Speaker
It passes overhead, and it starts recording the pursuit as the patrol vehicles are approaching the city of Hesabah. Witness number seven, they entered the interstate at Bear Valley Road. They were driving south in the number two lane when the Nissan Frontier spent past them. This particular witness would later tell investigators that the driver of the Nissan Frontier was a man with short hair, but that the witness did not see anyone else in the Nissan Frontier. They noted that the rear window and the rear passenger side window of the Nissan Frontier were shattered.
00:40:28
Speaker
And the witness heard a gunshot from the frontier and saw shattered glass fly out of the already shattered rear window of the Nissan. A second gunshot fired from the Nissan Frontier came approximately a second after the first, and the witness was not sure whether the shots were directed at him or the police behind him. At this point in time, witness seven activated and onboard dashboard camera, and this camera records smoke coming from the shattered rear window of the Nissan Frontier.
00:41:01
Speaker
Another gunshot is heard, the Nissan Frontier is turns to the right and cuts across the number two and number three lanes of the freeway as it approaches the overpass for Main Street.
00:41:14
Speaker
So this witness, Witness 7, they veered to the right shoulder just past the Main Street Bridge, and they stop as sheriffs arrive at Witness 7's location. The Nissan then goes off of the freeway and up the on-ramp.
00:41:30
Speaker
So the first sheriff's vehicle driving off the freeway shoulder to the right, this deputy jumps out of the out of his car and hides behind another car for cover.
00:41:41
Speaker
This deputy crouches under the driver's side door with a pistol raised as gunshots are fired. Witness 7 saw this and described seeing the deputy's actions. In the following quote.
00:41:52
Speaker
And then I'm just like, oh shit, that's what I'm like. Am I in danger? Because he's hiding behind a car. What is it I should be doing? A second sheriff's vehicle arrives at Witness 7's location and slows. Witness 7 wanted to leave because the suspect was starting to, quote, come down the dirt side of the on-ramp.
00:42:15
Speaker
And as he started the drive off, a deputy stops her patrol vehicle and witness seven moves forward, but ends up tapping the back of the patrol vehicle, putting the car in reverse.
00:42:29
Speaker
And he says, because I seen him coming and there were gunshots. So I was like, best thing for me to do would be to get the fuck out of the way. He described the sound as suddenly devolving into just continuous gunshots the whole time.
00:42:46
Speaker
He also stated he could not tell who was shooting at who, but there were multiple different calibers being shot for sure. He says it wasn't all the same caliber.
00:42:57
Speaker
So witness seven estimated for investigators that he heard 20 to 30 rounds being fired before he started to pull out. And witness seven wanted to drive around this deputy. So the bullets were coming. It's just instant panic.
00:43:10
Speaker
the deputy came around her car with her gun and waved at witness seven to just keep going. A witness seven said, so I didn't know whether to get out and hide behind her car, but I didn't want anything to happen to me getting out. So that's when I just put it in reverse.
00:43:25
Speaker
As he drove past the deputy witness seven saw three patrol vehicles driving up the on ramp. So where you would get on the highway, they're now going up. And once he passed the deputy and continued forward, witness seven said he heard what sounded like at least 100 rounds. it was insane.
00:43:46
Speaker
So around 11, 11 a.m., m Deputy Johnson broadcasts again and says he's weaving in and out of traffic, actively firing. This is around the time the Nissan Frontier would have been driving under that overpass.
00:43:59
Speaker
The Nissan Frontier drives across the west shoulder of the freeway over a dirt embankment, making a yeah U-turn onto the other side and going up the on-ramp. So that's what the witness was describing.
00:44:14
Speaker
And the San Bernardino airship helicopter reports that it is set up for lethal force at this time. So this next part is going to be taking place in the seconds because like we're not having minutes pass while this is going on at 11.00.
00:44:33
Speaker
clock and 11 minutes and 43 seconds, the helicopter for the California Highway Patrol starts recording the Nissan Frontier passing under the Main Street overpass of Interstate 15. 11 seconds later, they record the Nissan Frontier driving onto the dirt shoulder, and two seconds after that, the Nissan Frontier is recorded going up onto the southbound freeway on ramp,
00:45:00
Speaker
And two seconds after that, it's recorded driving the wrong way on the southbound freeway on-ramp. So we're now a wrong direction driver. um And the images for this, I believe, are directly from...
00:45:16
Speaker
some kind of, not just a camera, but potentially a scope where they have crosshairs on them with an X in the middle. I hope these guys do not have a military aircraft. but It could also be like just to focus the camera, right? It could be, yeah. It could be a multi-use situation. right So over the next 10 seconds, they record the Nissan Frontier driving onto this dirt embankment, which is between Main Street.
00:45:42
Speaker
This on-ramp at Interstate 15. So it's kind of the side of a highway. Does that make sense? Yes. At 11, 12, and 10 seconds, the airship records them driving fully onto the dirt embankment leading uphill.
00:45:56
Speaker
And we have multiple accounts from the people on board the helicopters, and this is the first one we're going to name. It says that technical flight officer, TFO, Jonathan Holt, is from the Sheriff's Department.
00:46:09
Speaker
He sees shots fired from the frontier. We have witness accounts of this from Witness 7 as well. And at this point, deputies from various vehicles return fire to the frontier, which continue until the conclusion of this incident.
00:46:24
Speaker
Eight seconds later, the Nissan Frontier failed to drive onto the Main Street overpass. It reverses back down the embankment like it's headed back towards the interstate. Shots continue to be fired from the Nissan Frontier, and the bullets that are fired by deputies, they're striking the ground around the Nissan Frontier as it rolls to a stop on I-15's southwest dirt shoulder.
00:46:47
Speaker
So we're no longer on the on-ramp. We're no longer... on the interstate and we didn't make it to main street. We're kind of between the on-ramp and the interstate in a big pile of dirt.
00:46:59
Speaker
It doesn't even look like from the picture. So for one thing, it's horrifying that the main street overpass is completely full of civilian vehicles. Okay. yep And it doesn't look to me like there was ever even, it looks like there's a, a wall, a median, like, I don't feel like it could have gotten over that.
00:47:20
Speaker
No, it it there's definitely, it's got to be some kind of service ditch or something, but it's stuck at this point. There's nowhere for it to go. That's right. It's just interesting that the report says it didn't get on there. Well, I'm not even, was it trying? Like, I don't know what it was doing. I'm not sure that it could. But they do say in that same time frame that it's reversing onto the shoulder. It's facing against traffic, but towards like the confronting vehicles that have been following it during this pursuit.
00:47:50
Speaker
Right. At 11, 12, and 40 seconds, the Nissan Frontier starts going and stops going in reverse. And then' five seconds later, the Nissan Frontier drives towards the deputies who are parked along the interstate, and it looks like they're on the other side of that sort of concrete barrier, which is might be very small, because I'm looking at it from above.
00:48:15
Speaker
Well, and if you as you go forward, you I'm confused as to where they end up being, but like at one point it is parked over it. It looks like so. yeah Yeah. I think it's two different things, but either way, go ahead. So it's hard to see the topographical from above, but it just, you know we're on the side of a busy highway, a very busy highway.
00:48:37
Speaker
Just a couple seconds later, as the Nissan Frontier is driving towards the deputies parked along the highway, bullets are running. striking the ground around the Nissan Frontier, fired by the deputies.
00:48:52
Speaker
It rolls to a stop on the shoulder, and over the broadcast, the Sheriff's Department's helicopter and the guys on board there say, shots are fired, shots are fired. He's continuing to shoot at the deputies.
00:49:07
Speaker
Deputy Johnson is behind his patrol vehicle, Krauss behind the left front wheel. His belt recording... Captures the sound of gunfire. And he says, passenger, get out. Passenger, get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Passenger, get out.
00:49:26
Speaker
So we have two helicopters overhead and so many cars i cannot explain to you. how many cars, like not just the deputies, but also the civilians.
00:49:38
Speaker
It is very difficult to understand what's happening. There are still gunshots flying, but a second after he puts this call out, Savannah Graziano gets out of the front passenger door of the Nissan frontier.
00:49:53
Speaker
She's wearing a sweatshirt, a tactical vest and a helmet.
00:49:59
Speaker
Between The following two seconds, which would be 11, 12, and 46 seconds and 11, 12, and 48 seconds, Savannah moves towards these deputies.
00:50:12
Speaker
She puts her hands and knees on the ground, and she crouches. Deputy Johnson is heard on the belt recorder saying, hey, hey, hey, come here, come here, come to me, come to me, come, come, come, walk, walk, walk.
00:50:25
Speaker
And because of all the chaos, this is the only place that's picked up is on his belt recorder. So she rises up, she's been out of the vehicle for about 10 seconds, and she begins moving towards Deputy Johnson.
00:50:42
Speaker
At 11.13, as she's moving towards the deputy calling towards her, with her hands raised, deputies fire gunshots and bullet strikes hit the ground around her.
00:50:55
Speaker
And on the belt recorder, Deputy Johnson can be heard saying, hey, hey, hey, stop. Stop shooting her. He's in the car. She's okay. Stop. He's in the car.
00:51:08
Speaker
But apparently no one else heard him. And three seconds later, Savannah Graziano fell to the ground. She appeared to attempt to rise back up. And another bullet strike landed near her lower left leg.
00:51:22
Speaker
She stopped moving and she remained on the ground in a prone position.
00:51:28
Speaker
approximately one minute and 10 seconds had elapsed from the time the Nissan freeway drove past the main street overpass and left the freeway until Savannah Graziano fell to the ground. During that time, according to the investigation, 199 rounds were fired by 21 San sheriff's deputies.
00:51:51
Speaker
At this point in time, deputies, including Deputy Johnson, approached the Nissan Frontier to clear it, Deputy Johnson reached into the front right passenger side of the Nissan Frontier.
00:52:05
Speaker
He pulled out a Daniel Defense rifle, placing that rifle on the ground. And he declared that Anthony Graziano was dead.
00:52:16
Speaker
At 11.13 a.m., Deputy Jones broadcast he was starting medical aid. And after Nissan Frontier was cleared, several deputies performed life-saving measures on Savannah Graziano.
00:52:31
Speaker
One of the deputies exclaimed, she has a plate carrier. I don't know what she has underneath. And Deputy Johnson responded, she has a knife on her, and a small folding knife was recovered.
00:52:45
Speaker
At 11.15 a.m., Deputy Johnson broadcast they were attempting life-saving measures for Savannah Graziano and that Anthony Graziano was dead. At 11.16 a.m., Hesperia Fire Department, which that's the main street is of Hesperia, the town, they arrive and they take over the life-saving measures.
00:53:06
Speaker
At 11.25 a.m., m Sergeant Tony Romero broadcasts that Savannah Graziano was going to be transported to DVMC, which is the Desert Valley Medical Center.
00:53:17
Speaker
At 11.41 a.m., the ambulance transporting Savannah arrives, and at 11.52 a.m., she's pronounced dead.
00:53:28
Speaker
So, sticking with our hostage-taking fame, we have a 15-year-old girl taken hostage by her father, which, by all accounts... After he had killed her mother, right? Right, yeah. he is He is violent. He has killed her mother.
00:53:44
Speaker
But she is ultimately killed by Sarah's deputies attempting to stop a high-speed pursuit. Oh, man.
00:53:56
Speaker
So... She has gunshot wounds to her right and left chest. She has gunshot wounds to her left flank, which is like the side of your butt, ah the center of her back directly between her shoulder blades. She has multiple gunshot wounds to her left calf. So to me, what unfolded was you've got one officer. You've got a lot of chaos, a lot of noise. You got one officer telling her to come to him. Nobody else realizes that that officer is telling her to come to him. And they think that she is going to the officer to do something.
00:54:33
Speaker
Right. And they all shoot her. Yeah, they shoot and her. And belt is the only thing that picked up the audio. I don't think anybody could hear anything he was saying. Yeah, I mean, this is chaos. Yeah.
00:54:50
Speaker
It is. It doesn't excuse the fact that, like, what are they doing here? What is the difference in... Okay, they're going after a homicide suspect who has a kidnapped 15-year-old daughter with him, right? Yeah.
00:55:04
Speaker
Okay. and she had on tactical gear. We're going to get into a little bit more, of i guess, of the information, like, you know, was she participating in this? Does it matter?
00:55:17
Speaker
And ultimately, she had no choice but to follow what the law enforcement officer was telling her to do, which was to come to him. Okay. And then she's shot and killed by cops, by law enforcement.
00:55:32
Speaker
Right. Right. Right. And so this should have never happened, right? Yeah, no, it should not have happened. And like there's a lot of drugs in Anthony Graziano's system.
00:55:42
Speaker
he has amphetamine, methamphetamine, ah morphine, hydrocodone in his system. So he's got a lot. He's on a lot. um I think it also said cannabis in there.
00:55:54
Speaker
i think this is one of the worst ah case scenarios I've ever seen. Yeah, and like it's so interesting to me.
00:56:07
Speaker
so ultimately, the end result of this report is they make four major recommendations. One is that everybody should have body-worn cameras. One is to install digital in-car video systems, which include like multiple cameras. i don't know if people know what those are, but i'll explain them in a second. Another was to refresh for the entire service department the incident command and officer communication training. And also to refresh, ah this is the primary recommendation, was to refresh the field of fire training. Field of fire training is so that you understand where your bullets are going when you're shooting.
00:56:46
Speaker
And um there were multiple bystanders hit by multiple bullets that we will never know exactly where they came from because some of them were hit by ricochets and some of the bullets were lost in the insanity of all this. But I think those four recommendations are highly necessary. But like this entire family...
00:57:09
Speaker
And i know there's I know there's surviving family members, and I'm very cognizant of that as I tell this story. This is a hostage situation, though. She was taken hostage. There was a murder, and then there was a murder, and then there was a murder.
00:57:24
Speaker
One of them seems to be a justifiable homicide, meaning the driver of the vehicle being Anthony Graziano and him causing all this chaos. But ultimately, he murdered Tracy Martinez.
00:57:37
Speaker
So that's accounted for. But Savannah Graziano's death is also an unjustifiable homicide.
00:57:48
Speaker
She was murdered by law enforcement. Correct.
00:57:53
Speaker
And will say this. They're very careful throughout this to not give you an exact, like, What's the word I'm looking for? Definitive statement.
00:58:07
Speaker
Yeah, they just offer points of improvement, right? Right. You know what's really interesting to me is they go through a lot of trouble to try to show that she was participating. i know.
00:58:20
Speaker
And it doesn't matter if she was participating. She was 15. Yeah. Yeah, they put a lot of video and photos into these reports where she appeared to be handling guns. But that's the thing. like That's because like we are in an environment where Dad has a ton of guns.
00:58:41
Speaker
And ultimately, him having a ton of guns means that she's going to be exposed to like weapons. And some families choose to teach the kids how to use them because they feel like they'll be more responsible.
00:58:55
Speaker
Well, but also when your father has gone over the deep end and shot your mother, if he tells you to pick up a gun and shoot it, like you're going to have to do that. Right.
00:59:06
Speaker
But at the end of the situation, she was without question, ah she was approaching because she was doing what she was being told to do by law enforcement. Yeah. ah She was cooperating. She wasn't trying to get away. like and I find it sickening that they're like, oh, she had plates in her vest, which, by the way, the it ended up the vest didn't have plates. I don't really know what that means.
00:59:34
Speaker
So ah the vest is just a piece of fabric. Right. Without the plates, it's nothing. Yeah. The plates are the armored part. Okay. And then they're like, oh, she's got you have knives on her, which she does, but... They're folding it in her pocket. Exactly. And she was not armed. She was not an armed person. She was not a threat. The problem here was the communication. And they killed 15-year-old girl who had just... I imagine she had just gone through hell. I don't know. She saw mom killed. I mean, I guess she could be a participant, but it doesn't it doesn't matter to me. She's 15. Yeah.
01:00:10
Speaker
No, right that yeah, it doesn't matter. This in-depth investigation report that they did, i'm not really sure what they were trying to get at, but guess they were trying to show it was more justified because they thought she was shooting at them. yeah It didn't matter, though, because at the end of the day, you have evidence. She was out of the vehicle. She was listening ah She was compliant with what one officer was telling her. And the other officers weren't keeping up with what was going on. Yeah.
01:00:44
Speaker
And they thought she was approaching in a hostile manner. And he tried to tell them. And after he said, hey, hey, she's fine. You know, don't shoot her.
01:00:57
Speaker
She was killed. Yeah. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. Do we ever find out, like, why nobody heard that? Why they didn't stop? No.
01:01:08
Speaker
that They chalk it up. So it's interesting. ah Okay. They give these officers a lot of benefit of the doubt that they do not give to Savannah or to Anthony. And I'm not saying Anthony should have gotten any because he was basically witness committing a pretty cold-blooded murder of Tracy Martinez.
01:01:27
Speaker
So... So Vienna seems to be collateral damage from that. But in the course of things, you discovered that Anthony Graziano was severely mentally ill.
01:01:39
Speaker
He also had been out of work and was addicted to various types of medications. I am not saying any of that as an excuse for his behavior. But I encourage people, like I always encourage rabbit holes. I think they're a big deal. If you go and read the Graziano report, um which is under AB 1506, and the report is available on the Office of the Attorney General in California's website. So it ah this is an official report. It's
01:02:13
Speaker
a lot of pages and you can do a lot of other research from what you find in that report. They give these officers the benefit of the doubt. They do not give any benefit of the doubt to Savannah. And I don't like situations like that because the whole report leans very heavily against Anthony Graziano, who's not here to defend himself.
01:02:36
Speaker
Not saying that any of what he did was justifiable. So don't mistake my words for like justification or a defense of him. But for us to understand situations like this in the future, I promise you the dash cam system in the car ain't going to do it.
01:02:54
Speaker
The body camera ain't going to do it. It's understanding the people, and they do put for some effort. But in that report that I've harped about related to this case, came out in March of this year, they are very clearly gathering facts to slant against the Graziano family.
01:03:17
Speaker
Without question. and all they are really doing is justifying the fact that their officers are basically stormtroopers, not the kind from the Nazi world, the kind from Star Wars, where they shoot a bunch of little bullets and they don't go where they intended them to. And they hit all kinds of people on the sidelines and other people's cars and buildings that they weren't designed to.
01:03:42
Speaker
Which is all completely irrelevant to the fact that like all the cops that weren't talking to her were shooting at her. like They were shooting at her. She wasn't hit by a stray bullet. No. No, she was hit multiple times. And so they missed...
01:03:58
Speaker
like the point, right? they were They saw her going towards other law enforcement officers because the guy that was talking to her, he's not standing out from anywhere. it doesn't They probably couldn't even tell that there was communication happening, right? Yeah.
01:04:14
Speaker
And so a lot of times my observation on things that have been um observable is that law enforcement, most officers are scared. Right.
01:04:28
Speaker
Correct. In these types of situations. And they want to protect each other. And what I've always thought about that is, well, like, if you're so scared, what are you doing there? Right? Yeah.
01:04:39
Speaker
For one thing, because 15-year-old with no weapon is clearly not going to hurt another officer. And just because you didn't know that doesn't make it okay for you to kill her.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I've always thought to myself, if you are in a situation as a law enforcement officer where you can't think of anything else to do besides shooting the person that's advancing, especially when it's a child, right? Yes.
01:05:14
Speaker
youre probably You probably shouldn't be there. And there's all kinds of things that could have happened like in the meantime, especially since she was clearly out of the vehicle. She was clearly, well, I don't know how clear it was. It was at least clear to the guy that was talking to her that she was going to do whatever they said.
01:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, like he knew. That's why he kept issuing commands. But unfortunately, like even he is in the wrong here. like He pulled her into the line of fire by like acting like this was like a typical traffic stop. He kind of fell back on parts of his training that weren't designed for this situation. and like so this is a weird position for me to be in because i do not like sit here and go,
01:06:01
Speaker
Oh, they murdered Anthony Graziano. Anthony Graziano killed his wife. He brought some of this on himself in and Savannah. But we have sort of the ultimate screw-up here with law enforcement not really knowing how to handle this situation.
01:06:19
Speaker
Turning it into a high-speed pursuit was a terrible idea. Well, okay, but it happened, right? Yeah. And if you look through this... i I feel like it's possible like they still didn't learn their lesson. There's actually pictures of the kids holding guns. and like They're trying to justify a million times ever that it was okay what they did.
01:06:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're trying to say, ah man with gun danger, bad, people died, we're okay. Well, right, and it's never going to be okay. No, no. Just because you make an 84-page document that gives all this information and you're trying to... It makes it worse, actually. Because instead of taking responsibility and saying, under no circumstances whatsoever should a child ever be shot to death...
01:07:09
Speaker
Right. And right and I get the chaos happens, but man, you got to figure out that's the whole incident command thing. I understand. You got to back off the helicopters. You've got to figure out what's going on. Somebody's got to be the brave one that like takes charge. And Johnson was trying to do it in the wrong way.
01:07:31
Speaker
Right. And it really is very sad. um i remember when this happened, this happened ah there were already like crazy things with law enforcement going on anyway. Yeah. And ah this was extraordinarily sad, think, um that she died. And do we know how the dad died? Bullets.
01:07:58
Speaker
Right. but you mean You mean did he kill himself? Yeah. yes He died due to a gunshot wound to the head. He suffered gunshot wounds through his left shoulder, left lower back, and his thigh.
01:08:08
Speaker
So when they when the coroners get involved in this, which is pretty quickly, ah from the scientific analysis that they do on all of this...
01:08:19
Speaker
They don't say he shot himself, but there's ah you know there's a lot of guns happening here. Because i I immediately thought he shot himself. I don't know why thought that, because you're right, there was a lot of shooting happening, but he may have gotten hit.
01:08:36
Speaker
But I imagine, and see, that my point being that if he just shot himself when he realized he was trapped, right? Right. You know that shit that the 15-year-old was...
01:08:48
Speaker
like horrified. Oh, absolutely. i mean, so okay. How they find him is interesting. When they pull up on him and the they start taking pictures and then they take his body away. This is the description.
01:09:04
Speaker
They said that Mr. Graziano wore a tan plate carrier, which contained four ammunition magazines, a black antenna and a black tourniquet. He also had a handheld radio on his left hip connected to an earpiece,
01:09:17
Speaker
So he's listening to the scanner. In his pockets, he had 9mm cartridges, two black handgun magazines, a black folding knife, and a rifle magazine. All of these magazines contained ammunition.
01:09:29
Speaker
And as previously noted, ah he had a 9mm Glock handgun in his waistband with a cartridge chambered. Very dangerous way to carry a gun. um They observed the injuries, which was included a gunshot wound to his right,
01:09:45
Speaker
ah to the right side of his head, ah gunshot wound to his left shoulder, two gunshot wounds to his left lower left back. um They said they collected a gunshot residue kit. I don't know why they did that because obviously he had been firing and firing and firing.
01:10:01
Speaker
um But so they go through the guns, they try them all, everything appeared to be ah working, like all of the guns were working.
01:10:15
Speaker
um They don't indicate that he shot Savannah in any way, but they don't come to a clear conclusion as to how he died in terms of how they present it to us.
01:10:28
Speaker
Okay. Well, i I feel pretty confident that he probably shot himself. I don't know why I feel that way, but... I wouldn't doubt that. They do a massive analysis of the shooter's position within the car. And this is like, don't be fooled by this. You should go read this.
01:10:44
Speaker
I'm going to say that one more time. But what they're really doing there is they're just trying to prove to you that Savannah had to be shooting. And I think that's wrong. i think what they're they're presenting, i mean, I'm not saying that it's wrong, like, technically, like it could be right. I don't know. It just doesn't matter. Right.
01:11:01
Speaker
Right. Because you've got a she she was To me, she looks small. I mean, she doesn't look like a you know an eight-year-old, but she doesn't... I can't get a great grasp of whether or not people from a distance would be able to tell if she that she was a kid. Well, anytime they leave the size out of an autopsy, it's because they're little.
01:11:25
Speaker
um She was five foot two. We know that from the Amber Alert. 110 pounds. And he was also five feet four. and all right So they go to great lengths to really try and convince their audience that we did the right thing because we tried to duplicate all this and had to be that Savannah was shooting.
01:11:47
Speaker
And to me, that's a waste. They shouldn't have done that. it doesn't matter if she was shooting or not. I guarantee you she was compliant at the end. So she wasn't doing it because she wanted to be doing it.
01:11:58
Speaker
And the answer to that the the rehabilitation, right? It's not shooting them. But I did, I think I saw the officer who was having her come to him. i think he was squatted down.
01:12:14
Speaker
Like, so it didn't, I feel like everybody just didn't see the communication happening. Yeah. They just didn't realize he was actually telling her to come and they thought that those officers were in danger. It's not okay that that happened, that they killed her. But at the same time, it's sort of like,
01:12:32
Speaker
Well, what were you guys doing there? Because you didn't take the homicide suspect into custody. Right. And you killed the Amber Alert subject.
01:12:45
Speaker
Yeah. So I feel like maybe no law enforcement intervention would have been better in this situation. Yeah. So one of the other things that like they did along the way here they do try to like recreate how everything would have been fired from the vehicle and what would have been happening with within the vehicle. Um, but I, I noticed like in, ah did you see the photographs of all this? There's also a video of it.
01:13:16
Speaker
Um, nobody's wearing tactical vests or helmets like they're wearing in the car. Like they're only wearing the little Tyvek suits. So their reach and like their ability are different than what they're thinking.
01:13:28
Speaker
Um, But it all none of it matters. No, it doesn't. there everybody like i guess they're doing it from the perspective of like do we have to take one for the public here and like fire some cops, which they were never going to do.
01:13:42
Speaker
I think that they're also, now hear me out here, I think they're also trying to give these cops that killed this little girl or this young woman like justification. Because think of living with that.
01:13:57
Speaker
Oh, well, I mean, you know, i hate to say this. Like, i I deal with law enforcement every day. I'll just say it this way. if If this type of situation, you are one of the cops that fired more than 15 rounds, which there are quite a few of, maybe it's time that you did something else within the police department. Maybe you're moving to a support position. Maybe you're training. Maybe you're doing something other than firing your gun.
01:14:26
Speaker
Right, because at the end of the day, what were they doing? Just killing people, right? I mean, that's all that ended up happening. They didn't save the Amber Alert subject. They didn't get the homicide suspect. They were just chasing and then killing.
01:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, and like we have to move on. And I get that this guy is whatever. you have lethal force in the sky. pretty quickly, you've got at least 20 minutes there. Like, you could take out a tire.
01:14:55
Speaker
And so, I mean, I'm sure someone will say, but we didn't want to kill the girl. Well, you did. So taking out the tire maybe gave her a fighting chance. Well, I was going to say, like, there is absolutely, like, no, like, you can't even reason it. Because at the end, they literally, she's walking to be, like, taken into custody or whatever. And they shot her.
01:15:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's ultimately what they did. and like, you know, she was the hostage here She was also the daughter here. Like, it's a complex situation. But as far as law enforcement should have known, she was also the subject of an Amber Alert. Right.
01:15:34
Speaker
And like that's what's important, right? Right. And I'm not trying to trash law enforcement for this. They just they didn't know how to handle this situation and they don't address it with the recommendations. they ah This report is probably just about the worst thing i think they could have done. i think i think it was the wrong way to go, yeah. you know I don't even need to do all this testing and research and everything else. Any sort of law enforcement incident that ends with an Amber Alert subject being killed by law enforcement is a failure.
01:16:08
Speaker
So I'm going to say this, and then I'm going to wrap up my thoughts on this. I don't think anybody out there knew this report had been released.
01:16:21
Speaker
Did you know this report had been released? No. And like, you know what i mean? Like, so when this happened, it flashed everywhere on the evening news.
01:16:33
Speaker
And then this is allegedly the justification for all of it. Which they were not justified. Yeah. I like it. Nobody's ever, I mean, is anybody ever going to talk you into it? No, not on this. I'm never going to be talked into. No, not on this one. Um, I like,
01:16:54
Speaker
the like there's there's some changes that need to be made to the structure of this department. Unfortunately, three years have passed and the department structure has already changed. um and you know Hopefully, there'll never be another incident like this in that department where they have to coordinate between two agencies and do all the things they had to do here.
01:17:14
Speaker
But at the end of the day, like this was terrible. This was a terrible hostage-taking that started with a terrible murder and ended with a terrible murder. Yeah, ah ah it's really, really bad. And that type of situation, it makes you start to wonder, because part of the problem with all of the law enforcement involved um deaths, right, yeah of people who are unarmed, is Does what they're trying to do outweigh the person's right to live, essentially, right Right. And in this case, I say no. I say no, it didn't. Because without law enforcement chasing this guy, he's not running. Right.
01:17:59
Speaker
So I don't, I mean, I get where they, they tried really hard to justify this, but in my opinion, it would have been better for them just to take responsibility and have skipped all of these ridiculous, like, excuses. Yeah.
01:18:17
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I could probably talk about this for days. This is one of the most horrifying things um I've ever seen happen to a young person because she was already clearly in a terrible situation at home.
01:18:33
Speaker
um i don't know what efforts were being made to save her there. it looks like some were being made because of the amount of information they throw at us in this report that pretty clearly comes from family members and, you know, other police involvement but i At the end of the day, like, she's basically assassinated. It's written off as justifiable, and and everybody kind of goes home.
01:19:01
Speaker
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01:19:12
Speaker
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01:21:16
Speaker
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01:21:34
Speaker
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