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Season Six: Holiday Episode 24
22 Playsin 2 days
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Transcript
Listener Discretion Advised
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
Episode Introduction: True Crime XS
00:00:50
Speaker
This is True Crime XS.
00:00:59
Speaker
Today's episode is definitely not appropriate for Christmas time. It is another dark one. And the source for this one is kind of an odd source.
00:01:11
Speaker
So you can read a summary about this on the internet, by the way. The source that I have is a document from the California Highway Patrol's Golden Gate Division of Investigative Services Unit, their special investigations unit.
00:01:27
Speaker
And it's dated 3-9-2018-2020.
00:01:33
Speaker
And got a bunch of identifying information on the cover sheet with ah California Highway Patroller chips and the Napa County Sheriff's Department. And it's massive. It's 94 pages. What's interesting about it is the version you can find on the Internet is heavily redacted.
The Redacted Document & Investigation Team
00:01:52
Speaker
And this is one of those cases where when you get into stuff that's so heavily redacted, you kind of wonder what was happening. They had a couple of things on here that make it pretty clear to a lot of witnesses in this case. There's about 30 redacted names. they have a huge team involved From the law enforcement perspective, they have the Special Investigations Unit, which in this particular incident, they have nine investigators from just that unit. They have six investigators assisting from other Investigative Services Unit, which is like support investigators.
00:02:33
Speaker
They have a sergeant and six other investigators from the Highway 8 patrol MAIT team. Then they have ah the highway patrol SWAT team, hazardous services detail, their CNT unit, which is their hostage negotiation team. That entire unit is involved. Their computer crimes unit ended up being involved, which is interesting. But all in all, there's like 150 investigators involved in this case, which is always interesting to me.
00:03:05
Speaker
From what I can tell, they have a total of three full crisis or hostage negotiation teams on staff.
Case Confusion: Veterans Episodes
00:03:13
Speaker
And I think what you're missing, if you find this on the Internet, is largely photographs of the crime scene. I think that's kind of the way this goes down.
00:03:27
Speaker
You said three ah negotiation teams? Yeah, yeah. They had three full hostage and crisis negotiation teams. On site of where this is happening. On site when this happened, yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
Right. So I'm not going to like confuse this too much, but this case reminded me of a different case. And i keep getting the two mixed up in my head.
00:03:53
Speaker
But the other case was, i believe it was a Home for the Holidays episode, not this year, but a different set of them. Right. And it was a guy who was a ah a veteran who killed, like, his mom's best friend. Okay.
00:04:11
Speaker
And his... best friend and he had lost his mind but i don't know why i keep i guess because they're veterans maybe that i mean that would make sense i don't keep accurate enough notes but yeah this is a completely different story but do you know do you remember the one i'm talking about not like right off the top of my head i know we've talked about a couple of veterans cases that if i were to go back digging i would probably find it pretty quick Right. Okay. And I, yeah, I can probably find it too. In fact, I remember his name was an interesting name, but anyway, it doesn't matter. i just had to split that in my head when I was learning, when I was you know getting ready to cover this.
Focus on Investigation Over Hostage Situation
00:04:54
Speaker
It is a tragic case. And for three hostage negotiating teams to be on site, it didn't have a great ending. No, this is one of those cases where,
00:05:06
Speaker
Probably telling people about like the hostage situation itself, it it doesn't take very long. It's longer than like the little short hostage takings that we've covered. But the story itself is not the interesting part. In just a minute, I'm going to tell the story and we're going to be done with that part. What's interesting is the investigation into the investigation.
00:05:32
Speaker
so There's like, that's why there's so many names on this case in terms of law enforcement is because there's some things that go wrong here that at every step of the way, there was the opportunity for those things to have been addressed in ah in a different fashion.
00:05:52
Speaker
i love it when there's investigations of investigations. Right. It's sort of like planning meetings to plan meetings. Yes, it's very much like that. This case is not super far back in time. it might feel that way to some people, but to me it feels like It doesn't seem like it should be seven
California Veterans Home Overview
00:06:10
Speaker
years ago. Right. Yeah. This is this is going to be March 9th of 2018.
00:06:15
Speaker
Everything that we're talking about occurs in like Pacific time. um When we start like saying times and stuff. This is going to take place in Yonkville, California. And it's ah you already mentioned the veterans part of this. It's going to take place at the California Veterans Home there.
00:06:31
Speaker
Now, the California Veterans Home is an interesting place. It was founded in 1884.
00:06:38
Speaker
So that's a long time ago. It is the largest of its kind in the United States when this happens. The population there 800 older or disabled veterans. When I pulled all the information together for this, I didn't capture in time these notes. So some of these feel off. think of it from the perspective of i'm going to say it in the present tense but some of that might be more past tense by the time people hear this. The idea was these 800 people were from World War war i the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the war in Afghanistan, and then Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.
00:07:17
Speaker
There's a lot going on at this home where they offer multiple levels of care. So some of the people here It's kind of an assisted living facility for them all the way to like pretty intensive care. They have domiciliary services, residential care.
00:07:34
Speaker
They have an intermediate nursing center. Then they have skilled nursing care of all types, meaning in clinic, in hospital and like hospital. home care, and they have an outpatient clinic on the grounds. So the grounds of the facility include a theater called the Lincoln Theater.
00:07:52
Speaker
The Lincoln Theater is well known for being the home of the Symphony Napa Valley. It's also the home of the Orchestra Institute Napa Valley. And that has a school attached to it for musicians. It has a nine-hole golf course. It has a baseball stadium, a swimming pool. On the facility itself, they have a military PX store.
00:08:12
Speaker
So like a base exchange. They also have an on-site U.S. post office. And that's like... pretty amazing for a veteran's facility. All of these facilities are available for the residents there to use at no cost. um other you know They pay to be there, but then there's no additional cost.
00:08:29
Speaker
They have multiple services available for the residents that like you don't see in the typical assisted living home. They have a television station, which I thought that was interesting. So it's like a on-site limited studio that like feeds into it's sort of like a public television but for the residents here and they have a fitness center a bowling alley they have on an auto shop I don't know that the auto shop is still open from the perspective that it used to be but at one point like veterans could come in and work on their own cars
00:09:01
Speaker
It has a massive library, has a creative arts center, and multiple ah chapels under the same roof, sort of, that have interfaith and multi-faith facilities, so not one particular religion. There is a cemetery on the grounds, and in that cemetery there are over 6,000 veterans and their spouses, and it dates all the way back to 1898. The first veterans that were in this facility would have been veterans of the Spanish-American War. The way that it ends up being where it is is the Grand Army of the Republic, a fraternal organization composed of Union Army veterans, also Union Navy and Marines, who
00:09:47
Speaker
When they created this organization 1866 up in Illinois, it grew to include Grand Army Post or GAR Post all around the United States.
00:10:01
Speaker
And the first veterans that would have been part of this were from the American Civil War. It actually was dissolved in 1956, but it is ah it's a part of this particular story in a way because of how um the California Veterans Home came to be. What's interesting about the grand...
00:10:21
Speaker
army republic organization is they were among the first organized advocacy groups in american politics they supported voting rights including for black veterans and eventually for women they promoted patriotic education and They are behind Memorial Day being a national holiday. They lobbied Congress to establish veterans having retirement pay and pensions. They have supported many political candidates, mostly early Republican candidates for them. At its peak membership, it had 410,000
00:10:56
Speaker
I think that's impressive. Although i have to say peak membership was around the turn of the century. of the 1800s into the 1900s. It's weird to have to like point all of that out, but it is an interesting organization. They are the reason that we have this land for the veterans home, but the property was deemed not appropriate. So a separate group was advocating for California veterans home, and it was officially founded in March of 1882.
00:11:29
Speaker
By October 1882, they have a massive fundraising campaign that's successful, and they have gone through a lot of land, including the land that had been secured by the Grand Army of the Republic, and they end up going with a different site, and that site is 910 acres near Yonkville, California. They buy it in 1882 at the end of the year for about
00:11:55
Speaker
So since then, the state of California has worked into its budget partial funding. At the time, it would have been about $15,000 per year. And their previous assumption was that that amount of money would support about 100 veterans. The home ends up opening to the first residence on April 1st of 1884.
00:12:15
Speaker
And at that time, they have an 11-member board made up of different associations for veterans. So they have a couple of people from the Association of Mexican War Veterans, and they have nine people from GAR.
00:12:30
Speaker
And at the time, GAR was representing Union Civil War vets. So that's kind of setting the tone for like what this is going to be like for veterans moving forward.
00:12:41
Speaker
The California Veterans Home was recognized as an official state institution by 1889. When the home opens, they have 17 residents, like when it's officially opened.
00:12:52
Speaker
And by the end of 1891, they have 408 men living there. So in the next 10 years, they're going to have to figure out what to do with themselves in terms of finances. Napa Valley struggles around the turn of the century.
00:13:10
Speaker
to make itself a prosperous place. And that extends over to the Veterans Home. They end up securing funding from the state of California and the federal government, but Washington determined that it was not going to be involved in a privately operated facility and they end up withdrawing its financial support between 1896 and 1900.
00:13:32
Speaker
So the association at that point was not financially solvent. And they turned the Veterans Home over to the state of California in 1897. The state pays the association $20. And they changed the name to the Veterans Home of California at Yonville.
00:13:49
Speaker
At the time that they took over the home, the estimated value for the land and all of the buildings, which included 55 steam-heated buildings with electric lighting, running water, and a sewer system, was around $320,000. That is huge that is a huge amount In 1897, it would kind of be a big amount today, but it would really only be less than one house in that area.
00:14:16
Speaker
The grounds also had, at the time, a successful dairy and hog farm. They had a chicken ranch, and again, they have these 800 people living here who are all veterans of York.
00:14:27
Speaker
The Civil War, the Mexican-American War, and the various conflicts with Native people. A man named Colonel Nelson Holderman, who's a World War I vet and the recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor, he becomes the Commandant of the home in 1919.
00:14:46
Speaker
So he had like a different type of approach to all of this, having been Colonel in the United States army, his biggest challenge would come from civil war veterans at the home and the ones who are on the board, he would advocate for changes and try and work the California veterans home through the different bureaucratic and political battles that would be facing.
00:15:12
Speaker
But the veterans did not care for him and they they did not care for any kinds of changes. He tried to avoid confrontation with them and in 1921, two years later, he resigned as the commandant of the home, but he vows to return.
00:15:27
Speaker
So in 1926, several of those older folks on the board have passed away But Colonel Holderman comes back. He retakes the position of Commandant in 1926, and he's going to remain there until his death in 1953. And in all honesty...
00:15:47
Speaker
He is sort of the lifeblood of the California Veterans Home. And when he passes away, it does not last much longer in terms of the political entity. It becomes a much more in-home run place.
00:16:03
Speaker
Overall, it's had a bunch of directors over the years. They have grown to a huge number of veterans. They have started to include women veterans and couples.
00:16:14
Speaker
it is an It's a remarkable facility. It's a beautiful facility. If you want to go online and check out some of the different things, they have multiple Registry of Historic Place entries on the grounds there. They have had multiple financial crises over the years.
00:16:32
Speaker
ah There was decreased funding in the 70s that caused some problems there. and eventually, the California state legislature took action. And they provided like a $100 million dollars renovation master plan that was going to take place over the next 100 years that would basically fund it as time allowed.
00:16:54
Speaker
And it's it's a pretty, it's a fascinating place. It's a really pretty place. And unfortunately for us, it's the setting for today's story.
Albert Wong's Background & Struggles
00:17:02
Speaker
Now, how we get here is there's a 36-year-old man. His name is Albert Wong.
00:17:09
Speaker
He had returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2013 and he struggled to adjust to being a civilian again in California. During his service, Albert was awarded an Army Commendation Medal, an Army Good Conduct Medal, and campaign stars for fighting global terrorism and for marksmanship. He had been employed through his ability to get a license as a security guard and security trainer.
00:17:37
Speaker
And the way that you do that in California is you get a permit or a series of permits through the Bureau of Security and Investigative Services. By the time we pick up with him, that license is older. He got it in 2008, which means it sort of predates his time in the service.
00:17:55
Speaker
He ends up being a resident of the Pathway House, and he gets about a year of residential treatment there for post-traumatic stress disorder. He has some behaviors that the staff considers threatening.
00:18:11
Speaker
And according to the San Francisco Gate in a 2018 article, and he had been threatening staff members, but they don't tell us exactly what it was that he'd been doing.
00:18:25
Speaker
We can pull up the San Francisco Gate article, and it kind of goes like this. It says, the The Army veteran known as Albert Wong was licensed by the state to work as a security guard and carry a pistol on his hip for nearly a decade, but failed to review the permits last year. So that would have been referring to 2017. The lapse came as Albert Chung Wong, 36, struggled to adjust his civilian life after returning from the war in Afghanistan.
00:18:49
Speaker
and This is according to friends and family members. They quote here. He had difficulty sleeping. he couldn't keep a normal schedule. And he had wanted to go to study computers in college. So basically he was going to try and get his ah degree.
00:19:02
Speaker
But they fell through as he bounced around the Bay Area and Sacramento. In spring of 2017, his mother died. So all of this happening at once kind of steers Albert Wong to the Pathway Health in Yonville. is there for a year of residential treatment, but he gets expelled over the threatening behavior, and that seems to time
Mysteries in State Records of Wong
00:19:27
Speaker
him.
00:19:27
Speaker
The story we're telling. The state records don't detail what exactly he had been doing as an armed guard. They didn't say exactly why he didn't renew his license or pay the fees.
00:19:38
Speaker
A lot is unknown about him kind of because of the end of this story. Now, according to Sissy Sher of Milbrae, says he was starting to feel like he was in a hopeless circle after a while. You can only think about that for so long without snapping.
00:19:55
Speaker
Now, what's interesting about Sissy Cher is she's Wong's legal guardian for multiple years in here, and that's after his mother died and his mom gets sick.
00:20:07
Speaker
Cher and her husband, Matthew... They had not seen Wong since he had stayed with them for several months after the end of his military service in 2013, but they had kept in touch with him.
00:20:21
Speaker
He most recently had shared with them his anxiety about us earning his degree before his veterans' education benefits would expire. Now, his mom has had a bunch of medical issues, and she when she dies, they they say that, like, it was horrible.
00:20:40
Speaker
a huge deal for him and it weighed on him heavily, which I think it would be for most people. But I think if you're in a fragile situation with PTSD, I think that could probably potentially weigh a little heavier on some folks. In 2008, Albert Wong successfully applied for his license to carry a nine millimeter automatic semi-automatic pistol and to work as a private security guard. According to this article and what I could look up, at the time, the permits would have required a 12-hour course with classroom and shooting instruction and a criminal background check.
00:21:12
Speaker
In 2017, the security license lapses in September. and the firearm license is not re renewed in October. Under California law, mental health professionals can keep people who pose a danger to themselves or others from possessing a gun, but it does not appear that any of those steps are taken ahead of this incident.
00:21:30
Speaker
But also... the weapons that he's using don't seem to line up with this handgun license. We'll get into that in just a second. So here's what happens with Albert Wong. He's been threatening the staff, basically, and we don't know exactly what he did, but there's a family member that says to reporters that Albert had reportedly told them he was angry with these staff members and he wanted to get back at them. he had been found, allegedly,
00:22:00
Speaker
to have knives at the facility that he was not supposed to be carrying. And they had asked him to leave, and Albert reported that he wanted to get back at them, he wanted to talk to them, yell at them.
00:22:13
Speaker
But according to these family members, they did clarify he did not want to harm or kill them. So... Of course, that was after he had killed them. Right. This is after the fact. A family member of one of the victims claimed that people were notified he had been violent. Nothing was done.
00:22:30
Speaker
And that they had a list of people who had been notified, including the Sheriff's Department and Veterans Health. And one of the interesting things that they're quoted as saying is, it's not as if no one knew, everybody knew this could happen.
Security at the Pathway Home & Wong's Expulsion
00:22:45
Speaker
So the Pathway Home is a treatment program. It's run by a nonprofit that leases part of the campus on the state-run Veterans Home of California, Yonville.
00:22:57
Speaker
That facility is secured by roaming unarmed 24-hour security personnel for the entire campus. They have security cameras installed at the Pathway Home's front desk and in the hallways, and they have a sign-in desk. So you have to like check in with someone. That's how it's supposed to work. The program that they were running on the Pathway Home was supposed to help veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who were struggling with PTSD.
00:23:21
Speaker
During this incident that we're about to talk about, residents of the nearby veterans home, they end up being locked down. And the way that it's locked down and the way that it's declared is as an active shooter on campus. So technically, this is an active shooting, but it starts out as a planned hostage scenario.
00:23:42
Speaker
ah There were teenagers using the grounds that day. They were all evacuated during this. Okay, and so before we get into like what actually happened, let's talk about for just a minute the circumstances leading up to it. how What do you think about him being expelled from this facility that specializes in the care of, it's a program that is in a house that it specializes in helping veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that are suffering from PTSD and he was expelled from it.
00:24:15
Speaker
Right. What do I think of about him being expelled? Yeah. Well, you know, look, you have to have rules in places like that. But I do think expulsion probably needs a stronger plan in place than they maybe realized.
00:24:33
Speaker
Well... It's, and I might be looking at this the wrong way. I'm not entirely sure. um that But he was where he was supposed to be, right? Well, like, it's sort of like, okay, and this is meant to show my point. It's not like, I don't really mean it personally, but like, it's like kicking the crazy person out of the crazy house.
00:24:57
Speaker
Right. No, I understand what you're saying. Like, it's the person that needs it the most, and suddenly he's being expelled. Yeah. Okay. And so when I saw that, I immediately thought to myself, and perhaps there was a different situation that would have dealt with the more intense cases besides this, what was it called? The Pathway House? Yeah, it's the Pathway House. Pathway Home? Yeah. However...
00:25:25
Speaker
It seems to me that he would have been just moved from the pathway home to the more secure facility that dealt with people who were storing knives when they weren't supposed to be. Right. I realize he's he wasn't in prison, Right. right I think that that's the very first big, huge red flag, right? Yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like, wait, so he wasn't able to follow his treatment plan, which is, you know... Having the issues that were like listed off there, they're all symptoms of post-traumatic stress, right? Correct, yes. We all are subject to having a little bit of post-traumatic stress, even if we haven't been to war. And we don't know what his particular circumstances were, except we do get a little bit of information that he was a good soldier at the time. He was a soldier and he was...
00:26:18
Speaker
He had aspirations. They weren't working out, but he still had them. And so I think that from the jump, either he should have never been there to begin with, like it was the wrong place for him, or their program fell woefully short of maybe what was expected. Yeah.
00:26:40
Speaker
Okay. Okay. That's all I wanted to say. I just thought that was an interesting part of this. It is an interesting part of this. And to some degree, it's backed up by what happens next.
00:26:51
Speaker
So according to Napa County Sheriff's Department... The way that like this kicks off is Albert Long arrives at 1018 on March 9th, 2018 in a rental vehicle.
Wong's Armed Arrival & Hostage Situation
00:27:07
Speaker
He parks along the outside of a building called Madison Hall.
00:27:13
Speaker
So he is wearing eye protection and ear protection. He's going to walk into the building and upstairs. He's equipped with a three ah eight rifle. He's equipped with a 12-gauge double-barrel shotgun and lots of ammunition. Which is much different than a park gun that he had a permit for, right? Yeah, I mean, he's he's kind of following the rules. He does not have his handgun with him.
00:27:38
Speaker
Well, I'm pretty sure that he wasn't supposed to have those other guns with him either, but... Right, that's probably true. According to 911 calls that come at 1020, 1021, 1022, dispatcher's is able to identify that Albert Wong is the perpetrator. He's gone upstairs to a group room, and he has basically entered this group room where there's a going-away party happening.
00:28:02
Speaker
And the reason I say he kind of is focused in on Pathway Home is he lets everyone go. He lets veterans and staff members go. But he holds back ah Jennifer Gonzalez, Shusha Riba. She's a psychologist.
00:28:18
Speaker
Jennifer Gorlick and Christine Lieber. Now, Jennifer Gorlick and Christine Lieber, they are the clinical and executive directors of the Pathway Home. So I presume they were probably the ones that conveyed the expulsion.
00:28:32
Speaker
That's the impression that you get from all of this. Yes. They don't get into details of exactly who made the decision to expel him. But those are the people that would be signing off on it or telling him. Yes.
00:28:43
Speaker
Okay, and so they were targeted. Right. The three people he holds that he targets are all related to the pathway home. So we get Napa County deputies on the scene. at about 10 minutes after this initial 911 call at 1020-1021, Albert Wong is going to exchange gunfire with a deputy...
00:29:03
Speaker
who was a senior deputy at the nabu county Napa County Sheriff's Department named Steve Lombardi. He then retreats into the Pathway Home Building. After this starting of the shootout, there's no further contact with Albert Wong or any of the hostages, even though there are three hostage negotiation teams that come on site.
00:29:23
Speaker
This is going to last all afternoon. So um just really quick, you may not know, but so about 10 minutes after the initial 911 call, which came from probably somebody who had been... ah you know, in the facility and saw what was happening or released from the room.
00:29:45
Speaker
There's an exchange outside. is that, is that what I'm hearing there? Yeah. so and So he came outside, exchanged gunfire and then went back in the house. I went back in the building. Yeah.
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah. It's the pathway house, right? Yeah. That's where we're at. We're at Madison hall. Like he parks in Madison hall, walks over to the pathway house, which is, According to this, it's located at Madison Hall, Section G. So did, like, the three hostages that he didn't allow to leave, did they just wait on him? I don't... I think he maybe made a big show out of it and like They maybe didn't have a choice.
00:30:24
Speaker
okay well I was just curious. but yeah they Maybe they thought they were going to deal with it. Right. Well, keep in mind, I have to give you kind of the police side of this because that's what I have. I don't have and a window into his mind. Sure. No, I got you.
00:30:36
Speaker
so It says that roughly 10-20-10-21, Napa County takes this call and they write it up as an active shooter. And, you know, it's described as being in progress at the Pathway Home, at the Veterans Home of California. The location of that is going to be 100 California Drive in Yonkville, California at Madison Hall, Section G. So the first reporting party, whose name they redacted, I'm not going to use their name. Bay Advisor is an active shooter, and that shooter is 36-year-old Albert Wong. He has a semi-automatic firearm and lots of ammunition.
00:31:09
Speaker
She does not know if anyone has been shot. And she does clarify he's already released multiple hostages. And that's when Steve Lombardi is responding. According to him, he gets to the scene roughly at 1025, which would only be about four minutes, not 10 minutes. He said his radio is just going crazy. And he hears updates on the radio to include that the shooter has been equipped with an assault rifle, lots of ammunition, was prior military, and he's is either a client or a former client of the pathway home.
00:31:39
Speaker
So Lombardi himself responds directly to Madison Hall. He gets hailed by a released witness or a hostage. they They get really wonky with how they identify these people along the way. To be clear, this is less an act of shooting and more a hostage taking.
00:31:56
Speaker
even though it's listed as an active shooter response. This witness is redacted. They're on the northwest corner of Madison Hall, and they tell Deputy Lombardi that Albert Wong is located on the second floor in a group room.
00:32:10
Speaker
She had not heard any shots at this time, so she uses her security access card. She opens up the first floor main entrance door on the west side of Madison Hall, follows in with Deputy Lombardi, and they go up to the bottom of the stairwell, and she just basically tells Lombardi how to get to where she knows Albert Wong was or his last known location.
00:32:32
Speaker
So prior to identifying Albert Wong's location, Deputy Lombardi worked his way to the second floor of Madison Hall. He began to safely clear room by room and to check unsecured areas on the second floor.
00:32:45
Speaker
He clears a small room adjacent to a larger room labeled, quote, group room, and he pushes open a closed middle door to the group room. When he pushes this door open, Deputy Lombardi locates Albert Wong, who has a rifle through the partially opened door.
00:33:02
Speaker
Deputy Lombardi then retreats to a position of cover, and within seconds, he hears the sound of Wong, quote, charging his rifle. So what he's hearing there is a bullet being loaded into the chamber. So that means, to this point, these guns maybe had a lot of ammunition, but until he sees the cop, he's not thought about firing.
00:33:30
Speaker
Make sense? Yes. Yes. Okay, so almost immediately after this happened, he hears a loud scream coming from within the group room, and he perceives that scream to be a female.
Police Response & Standoff with Wong
00:33:40
Speaker
So at this point, Deputy Lombardi, according to his report, he says he fears for the lives of the woman being held hostage in his own life. He fires through the door to the group room toward Wong's last known location in response to the sound of the rifle being charged. He's responding to the sound of the bullet being put in the chamber and the woman's scream. So he says gunfire began coming toward Deputy Lombardi from inside the group room.
00:34:07
Speaker
And he exchanged gunfire with Wong while simultaneously retreating to a position of cover. ah Deputy Lombardi held his position until responding law enforcement personnel arrived.
00:34:18
Speaker
So he never left the room. But he doesn't go outside. But, yeah. You're talking about Wong? That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I was trying to kind of clarify with the cop's words what's happening. um i know it's a little dry. They didn't have the opportunity to get away. Right. Like he was just holding his place. But they were in there. Right. And.
00:34:38
Speaker
witnessing the shootout, which was through a door, apparently. Right. And I think a lot of the people who wrote articles and summaries on this online didn't read the report that we're pulling from. it It does clarify some of the questions that you and I would normally have, which is why I felt like it was a better source for this.
00:34:53
Speaker
Sure. And like I said, it doesn't, this doesn't last very long. Like the whole thing is, it's pretty quick. Sergeant Thompson from the Napa County Sheriff's Department arrived. So that's going to be the supervisor for ah Deputy Lombardi.
00:35:04
Speaker
to a degree, but Deputy Lombardi is a senior deputy. ah We get deputyties deputies Bronco and Fisher arrive, and Napa Police Department officers, they all start to arrive as well. We get four of them, Toscani, Cowan, Heil Fritz, and Thompson. They arrive with the others on the second floor. So at this point in time, you have essentially eight cops, and Deputy Lombardi is no longer taking on a gunman alone. So at this point in time,
00:35:35
Speaker
Lombardi does not know if there are signs of life from inside the room. So the situation stops being a radio active shooter and it starts being a hostage slash barricaded suspect situation.
FBI's Discovery of Bodies
00:35:49
Speaker
So that's how we get all of these SWAT teams and negotiation teams on site.
00:35:55
Speaker
They're going to remain here. Until 630. So this is 1020 this starts and they're all going to be here until 630 at 630.
00:36:07
Speaker
The Federal Bureau of Investigation SWAT team makes entry into the building where Wong had been barricaded with. What they have determined over the course of these hours are the three women that we stated they're inside So upon entry into this room at 6 30 p.m.
00:36:25
Speaker
They discover four dead bodies and they secure the crime scene for further investigation That's sort of where the story ends but for this massive investigative report so It kind of is an active shooter situation. it kind of is a hostage situation.
00:36:46
Speaker
Ultimately, the details of the investigation are not as helpful as they might be in some scenarios. So it says on March 19th, 2018, approximately 1110 hours, CHP investigator named Markwell, he's advised to respond to the California Veterans Home.
00:37:05
Speaker
He is there to be part of an active shooter investigation. In a short time after he arrives at the command post, a sergeant named Rossetti assigns investigator Markwell as the lead or primary investigator of this incident.
00:37:19
Speaker
So we're going to talk about his investigative steps now, and that's going to be giving us sort of a window into what happens in this time period. Everything that he used to put this together is listed. So that's the statements of his fellow investigators, witness and victim statements, dispatch incident logs related to the incident, the physical evidence that they're eventually going to recover. All times in this investigation are approximates based upon different time sources and different timestamps which are utilized to document what's happening in this report.
00:37:50
Speaker
So this is like a puzzle that is being put together for us, and we're able to look at the picture of the puzzle. It says March 9, 2018, at approximately 1,300 hours, Markwell arrived at the Joint Command Post and began obtaining information around the incident.
00:38:07
Speaker
Investigator Markwell learned the suspect's name is Albert Chong Wong. He's got his date of birth here, and it's got his birthplace.
Investigation Details & Team Involvement
00:38:14
Speaker
He says that he and investigator Coker...
00:38:18
Speaker
They met with Detective Don Maiden, who is a Napa County Sheriff's Department detective. He's been assigned by his department to investigate. So Detective Maiden relays that there's this is, for him, it's considered to be an officer-involved shooting.
00:38:34
Speaker
So they're investigating kind of two different sides of this. Basically, Maiden is there to find out what happened with Lombardi pulling the trigger of his weapon. So that occurred at 1032, and that Albert Wong is suspected to be holding three hostages in a group room on the second floor of Madison Hall, Section G. Those three hostages have been identified at 1,300 hours as pathway home staff.
00:38:59
Speaker
Christine Lieber is listed here as being the the primary person, the first person that they're considering one of the hostages The second one is Jennifer Gonzalez, and she's a psychologist for Veterans Affairs.
00:39:16
Speaker
And then Jennifer Golick, she's a clinical director. So Christine Lieber is the executive director of Pathway Home. Jennifer Gonzalez is one of the doctors on staff, and Jennifer Golick is...
00:39:27
Speaker
clinical director So we've got two Jennifers and a Christina. Detective Maiden related that there was a rental vehicle parked on the west side of Madison Hall that they believe to have been rented to Albert Wong. That vehicle is a great 2018 Toyota Avalon. They list off the license plate and they say that it came back to a particular rental company in the area. A lot of this is redacted as I'm talking. Detective Hernandez responds to that location and learned that Albert Wong had rented the vehicle on 2-27-2018 at around so lunchtime.
00:40:00
Speaker
at around twelve forty two so lunchtime ah The vehicle was rented from the Sacramento Airport location and was scheduled to be returned by March 13th at 1300 hours. And by this point in time, they have a copy of the rental agreement.
00:40:18
Speaker
And they have quite a bit of information that is marked off as being HIPAA-related that Detective Maiden shares with them, but we can't see. Whatever's in that information, Detective Maiden relates that he was able to get search warrants for the search of the group room and for Albert Wong's rental car.
00:40:37
Speaker
And those were going to come through a detective at the Napa Police Department because of the jurisdictional issues with the actual location. And that guy's name is Garrett Wade.
00:40:49
Speaker
So those search warrants were reviewed by a Judge Rodney Stone. They end up being approved by phone, but not until 7.40 p.m. And they do have a ah notice called night service. Do you know what that means? Right. It's where the judge has approved to serve it at night. Yeah, after dark. Yeah.
00:41:10
Speaker
Because that's more startling, right Yeah. Yeah. But usually you're not allowed to do that is the point. Yeah, it's it's actually, it's it's thought to be a rarity. There are a lot of search warrants that come in with night service attached, but in this particular instance, it's not as big a deal.
00:41:26
Speaker
It says at approximately 1,400 hours, investigators Hughes and Rose, they respond to the offices of The Napa County Sheriff's Department's investigative unit where Deputy Lombardi is. They arrive at 1435 to assist with like the officer involved shooting evidence collection. So that means they're going to take his gun.
00:41:45
Speaker
They're going to go through his ammunition and all of that stuff is going to be booked into evidence. So the next couple of pages are redacted because they're about his gun and the serial number and all of those things. And they want that to stay private to the officer If you see that in a report and you're reading the report months later, going to go ahead and tell you, it usually means that officer has been fully cleared.
00:42:09
Speaker
And he's back on duty, and that's why they don't share them. At this point, it says investigative Markwell provided contact information and requested contact if yeah anyone thought of something that might assist. And they have a couple of names redacted in here. I assume they're witnesses or people from the property. Investigator Markwell contacted CHP Sergeant Bradshaw. He advised him of the location of a suspect suspect of the uncle's house in The location is redacted. They contact an area known as Ukiah CHP office, and they request a whereflow welfare check be done.
00:42:41
Speaker
So they end up being ah ah contacted back by the CHP division there by a sergeant who advises he made contact and that that person at that residence, who is believed to be a relative of the shooter, is very cooperative.
00:42:54
Speaker
So they end up talking on the phone and requesting that that residence be secured and that a search warrant be put together for that residence and that CHP basically take it over until they can go in and seize any evidence that they need. So that over time, they finally get a search warrant to search that house later in the evening. They don't tell us what they found there. It's all redacted. And the statement by that particular relative who I think it's the uncle and they forgot to redact that part.
00:43:26
Speaker
They secure him and they get a statement from him and they they do take some evidence away but they don't tell us what it is. So by 1900 hours they have a full investigative briefing which that's going to be conducted with all these personnel and they are basically trying to establish the jurisdictional parameters of this investigation.
00:43:45
Speaker
Based on this briefing, they establish a physical parameter around Madison Hall that's going to include the parking lot. They tape it off using yellow crime scene. They station uniformed officers in marked vehicles to keep out anyone who's not supposed to be there. And they create a crime scene log, which is absolutely standard. It's established for the outer perimeter. So they're going to take note of anyone coming and going from this crime scene. They end up establishing a second crime scene log in Madison Hall, located at the first floor north entrance, which is going to be the main entrance for all of the officers. And they start establishing search locations.
00:44:23
Speaker
So... They bring in exterior lighting and they light up the outer perimeter to illuminate the exterior of the building.
Crime Scene Management
00:44:31
Speaker
have personnel canvass the exterior of the building within the outer perimeter to determine if there's any evidence to be located around Madison Hall. And in addition to establishing the search locations, the parking lot next to the building is included based on the possibility of locating additional suspect or victim vehicles. They start contacting DMV and making registration inquiries on all the vehicles located within the Madison Hall parking lot. And they're able to determine that three vehicles that they've located within the outer perimeter belong to people who are inside. And then they list off, again, the name of the three victims and their vehicles, and they redact some of that information. But the bottom line is, and i don't know if you remember this, there was a period of time where DMV information became very secret,
00:45:17
Speaker
Now, even the law enforcement, like you were monitored and and logged. i I can still access it now. So I assume some of that's been listed, but like it was a big deal.
00:45:29
Speaker
Well, right. Because when it wasn't a big deal, it was used in enough cases, like in a willy nilly fashion Yes. That it caused problems like women being stalked.
00:45:41
Speaker
And I believe it might have willy nilly use of DMV records may have led to like violent acts that shouldn't have occurred. Yeah. Well, all violent action occur. Yeah. But specifically, you know, ex-husband or ex-boyfriend or somebody was like, hey, you know, I want to see if this is somebody. And and they gave the information. And so they made it like a big deal.
00:46:05
Speaker
And they said, you know, stop doing that. And I think it was like the Driver Safety Act or something like that. Yeah. and It was a federal law that was put into place. And now I'm just, I'm not really sure where that stands. It seems like they should have better judgment than that. Yeah.
00:46:23
Speaker
Cause like, like you said, you can access different things. Right. And like, yeah I can access anything that's in the DMV now. Like it's, it's not been that way forever, but like I now can for sure like access VIN numbers, plate numbers, all of those things. I have full access to them. I'm also, you know, licensed in that regard, but yeah. I am able to to go in and and look up anything. um You have to declare at the beginning of each search that I do that I am doing it for the purposes of you know an agency and and the type of investigation. and you don't have to put anything particular in because a lot of times I'm on rabbit hole hunts. I'm going from pictures at a scene or something and I'm running all the plates or running all the VINs that I can find and just trying to figure out who all was there.
00:47:07
Speaker
Right, but you're not going to use it in a destructive manner. It's not personal. And that's what was happening. somebody was like People were using it for personal reasons as opposed to official business. And it was leading to problems. And it was like a whole thing. But this has been a while, right? Yeah. That was a while ago. Yeah.
00:47:29
Speaker
So what happens next is like they they scour Madison Hall. They don't end up removing the bodies until 3 in the morning. And they take the we think Albert Wong's body first, and then each of the victims are taken away. They then search the uncle's home, and they find a number of...
00:47:49
Speaker
firearms that are seized and taken away and they search albert long's home which is actually in sacramento there are multiple firearms that they remove and they transfer over to the atf for testing there are at least three firearms that become the focus here there's a rock river arm 223 caliber rifle there's a jp enterprises ultralight 308 rifle and there's ah a stoger shotgun which the stoger shotgun's been fired once They list 13 shells separately, and they say that the Ultralight 308 had twenty a 20-round magazine containing six 308 rounds, and they had one in the chamber. My guess is the 13 shells came out of that because it's a 20-round mag, and it's so it's missing 13. And then the investigation gets pretty boring for...
00:48:40
Speaker
ah number of pages here because literally all they're doing is like tracking down the minutia of getting everybody's body-worn cameras and figuring out where these guns came from. and They're basically trying to unpack what albert long's life to a degree they track down security footage from all of these locations they're they literally have techs who are able to track each victim as they come in when they come in where they go it's a rather massive investigation for for what it's going to end up being and it ultimately
00:49:19
Speaker
it didn't, the shooting and the hostage taking didn't last
Wong's Preparations & Actions
00:49:23
Speaker
very long. By the time we're able to look through it all, which if you pull this up, I think ABC Local has it. If you just look up Albert Wong investigation, there may be a way to look at the redacted version of this document. It does have a blow by blow of like everything that happens between Albert Wong and the victims. Unfortunately, again, they redacted a lot of the public facing version of this and to, I think some of it's just to protect individuals who really weren't involved in this. and also to protect investigative methods, I'm sure, is one of the reasons for the massive amount of public document redaction that they do here.
00:49:58
Speaker
And the reason I bring all of that up and I'm making it a part of this story is because we do get to a really interesting piece of the puzzle. Pretty deep in the document, it's listed as being page 86 of 94, and while the top half is redacted, it goes into a little of...
00:50:17
Speaker
What they were able to do with Albert Wong's movements. So I wanted to bring that up kind of in talking about this before we get to some of the criticisms of this investigation that come out.
00:50:28
Speaker
It says February 14, 2018, Albert Wong purchases the double barrel shotgun from Sweeney Sports in Napa Valley. He had a 10 day waiting period. He took possession on February 25th.
00:50:40
Speaker
On February 23rd, he purchases the.308 rifle from Coyote Point Armory in Burlingame, California. Also waits 10 days, picks it up on March 5th. On March 8th, 2018, he was in the Yonkville, Napa area based on interviews and call detail records until approximately 2230. He returned to Sacramento at around 2330, so an hour later,
00:51:02
Speaker
He returned to his home, basically. And the investigation revealed that he stayed in or around his residence and began to conduct Internet searches. So on March 2018, at four in the morning,
00:51:17
Speaker
He began searching for Apple not assisting law enforcement. He appears to read an article that is titled Apple vows to resist FBI demand to crack iPhone linked to San Bernardino attacks.
00:51:30
Speaker
At approximately 6.53 hours, he began searching for overcoming fear of death and suicide. He ends up reading an article at 6.54 a.m. that's titled Overcoming the Fear of Lethal Injury.
00:51:46
Speaker
And at approximately 7.30 in the morning, he reads a series of articles or visits. I don't know how they know he read it, but he visits multiple articles that kind of go like this. He began searching for planned murder-suicide, which is interesting to me. The articles that he blips through are murder-suicide when killing yourself is not enough, murder-wikipedia, so I believe that's just the Wikipedia entry for murder, malice of forethought on Wikipedia, practice makes deadly...
00:52:17
Speaker
Perfection. He then appears to psych himself up for this. At 8.25 in the morning, he began searching for suicide footage. And his computer loads videos from LiveLeak.com and YouTube. And some of the titles that are listed are...
00:52:32
Speaker
Suicide in police station. Leaked girl suicide live footage. Real suicide 18 plus graphic material. Father commits suicide following son's death. Graphic.
00:52:43
Speaker
Suicide caught on camera. And suicide warning. Also to graphic content. So he's been looking at this. And around nine, he gets into the four-door gray Toyota Avalon car. that we know is rented from somewhere local. For some reason, all that redacting they did earlier goes away here, and we actually know everything about who and where he rented it and everything about the car. He had sold his vehicle that he had at the time into a buyback program, so that's why he's got a rental car.
00:53:13
Speaker
He arrives in Yontsville at approximately 9.56 a.m., and he arrives at the veteran's home, the specific place that he's going to be, because he's going to park near the loading dock at approximately 1018 and that's when he removes a rifle bag which has the rifle the shotgun and strangely enough shooting safety gear which is so confusing to me why would you wear eyewear and head I mean ear protection Creature of habit. Yeah.
00:53:45
Speaker
So he enters Madison Hall. We kind of know parts of this, but this is a nice little summary of what they think he did. He enters Madison Hall through a middle door leading into the basement, which was propped open the night before. It's unknown if he enters the building by the same means or if he was let in by a resident or a staff member.
00:54:01
Speaker
By entering in this manner, he bypasses the need to use any kind of key or key cards. So he doesn't need a person to help him do anything, and he doesn't need, essentially, clearance to get into the building. Once inside, he puts on his safety glasses and his ear protection.
00:54:17
Speaker
he brings his additional ammunition and magazines. He slings the assault rifle over his shoulder. as well as the double barrel shotgun. And they're able to watch him basically through the videos. He goes through the basement, he kicks open a door, makes his way to the stairs leading to the first floor, goes up to the first floor and then passes it and goes to the second floor. He goes immediately to the group room. So he knew was going to be there. He immediately dismisses three veterans present in the room. He gets rid of four female staff members in the room.
00:54:48
Speaker
So those seven people are all redacted and essentially, He stays in the room with the women we've discussed are going to be his victims.
00:54:59
Speaker
He removes a doorstop that propped open the door. And by this, they interpret this as meaning he intended to hold these three remaining hostages. So people that are walking out are the ones calling 911.
00:55:12
Speaker
We're able to see them to a degree as they get out of the building. And they go through Deputy Lombardi's version of the story. There are some recommendations made, but ultimately they decide that the investigation into the murders of Jennifer Gonzalez, Shariba, Jennifer Golick, and then Christine Lieber, as well as they add in the attempted murder of Steve Lombardi, the deputy.
00:55:37
Speaker
They determine that the suspect acted without assistance from any other people. And due to the suspect being deceased and his death being determined to be at his own hand, there's no charges that can be recommended. So they sort of close out that part of the investigation.
00:55:52
Speaker
Now, what's interesting about this is there's a ton of time here that is ultimately going to become subject to further investigation. So the way they qualify this and And I'll say, they say there's five deaths here. Do you know? Yeah.
00:56:12
Speaker
all right. So Albert Wong kills himself. He kills these three women. And then it is determined that Jennifer Gonzales-Chushariba, who's the psychologist here, she was 26 weeks pregnant at the time this happened.
Outcome of Wong's Attack
00:56:26
Speaker
And that she, upon autopsy, was discovered to have a baby that was dead as well. Now... He shoots them with the rifles and then he uses the shotgun on himself. The way that they cover this is they basically say this all happened immediately after the exchange of gunfire with Steve Lombardi. I don't know if that's true or not, but in this report, that is the conclusion that they made. I think they would have heard more gunshots. Right. And so the criticism that comes about is when there's no contact with Wong or any of these people for all of this time, that basically they've just left these bodies and this evidence there from 10 to roughly 6 right?
00:57:11
Speaker
Right, and there were three negotiating teams on site like for like a multi-homicide. Right, and I noticed that of all recommendations they make, none of them address this. It's the elephant in the room.
00:57:26
Speaker
Yeah, and so my criticism of the investigation into the investigation is that they still found themselves to have done no wrong. I mean, I'm not surprised. Like, those investigations into investigations aren't set up to expose anything. They're set up to emphasize that nothing bad happened. I will, however, say, and I don't know if this is the appropriate place for it or not, but ah the incident happened March 9th, 2018. If you fast forward to June
00:57:58
Speaker
twenty twenty two ah California officials agreed to pay out $51 million dollars to settle lawsuits that were brought against the state by the victims' families yeah in this shooting. Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
And so it's it's interesting, right? Yeah. And... To some extent, I do understand why the state would be responsible for it.
00:58:31
Speaker
And other thoughts about it, I would say, like, don't know how I would feel as tax. I don't live in California. I don't know how I would feel as a taxpayer paying that out.
00:58:42
Speaker
Oh, I would not want to be paying that out for sure. It just seems so a little steep considering the circumstances. Yeah, so here's one article I pulled, and then I'll kind of wrap this up because all that redacting is not going to give us what we're thinking of. This is from NBC Bay Area. It says, Time-lapse question and Veterans Home Standoff slayings. This was written by Mark Matthews. It's published in March of 2018, right after this happens.
00:59:09
Speaker
Since one of the key questions in the investigation into the fatal shootings at a Yonville veteran's home last week is why officers and deputies waited more than seven hours before moving in. When officers finally did go into the pathway home on Friday, they found the three hostages and the gunmen.
00:59:22
Speaker
They likely had been dead for hours, according to officials. California Highway Patrol, which is leading the investigation, has provided few details on the standoff and the slayings. Napa County deputies were some of the first on the scene when the reports came in of an active shooter.
00:59:36
Speaker
And one deputy exchanged gunfire with gunman Albert Wong in what witnesses call a flurry of gunfire. Wong, who had recently recently been expelled from the home, slipped into a going-away party, let some people go, and held Dr. Jennifer Gorlick, Dr. Jennifer Gonzalez, and Christine Lieber at gunpoint.
00:59:53
Speaker
Despite repeated efforts for hours, the deputy shootout with Wong was the last time anyone, including negotiators, had any contact with gunmen. ah State Senator Bill Dodd was at the command center for most of the day. He believes that three women were killed during or shortly after the initial exchange of gunfire.
01:00:08
Speaker
Of course, that day, nobody knew that those fatal shots were run out so early. Law enforcement was hoping, and their strategy was they didn't cause something that was catastrophic for the victims. Dodd said he was told that glare on the windows of the pathway home made it impossible to see inside. Negotiators repeatedly called Wong's cell phone, only to discover that it was in his car.
01:00:28
Speaker
Law enforcement sources told NBC Bay Area any strategy for dealing with a gunman holding hostages carries a risk. Rush in. You may provoke the gunman to kill. Wait hours. You may risk losing wounded hostages. The CHP chose to wait, and Dodd said rushing in likely would not have changed the outcome. From the talk I heard in and around the camp, the crime scene was not a pretty sight. Let's just put it that way. More details should emerge once the CHP releases the results of its investigation. The agency has not provided an estimated timeline on completing the investigation.
01:00:58
Speaker
So here's what I had thought about doing. And I i know this is I'm not getting long on the tooth on this story.
Speculation on Investigation Outcome
01:01:03
Speaker
I have not seen the autopsy results here. And I wondered, this is just me speculating on that giant settlement.
01:01:10
Speaker
I wondered if one of the things that happened here wasn't that in that initial exchange of gunfire, one of the women was hit.
01:01:22
Speaker
like the the back and forth between Lombardi and him, because we don't have reports in here. And I went through all the available reports to see of any other gunshots that day.
01:01:35
Speaker
So I wondered if, like, how do you how does Lombardi not report the shotgun blasts? And if he stays there, he would have heard it.
01:01:49
Speaker
And then he's relieved and he doesn't pass it on. And I also wondered, and this is just me being the nosy person that I am. I am not implicating anyone in this comment. Is the reason that maybe more of this isn't public because all of those bullets weren't necessarily from him that took the lives of these women.
01:02:10
Speaker
If you've got three women in a room and you're shooting bullets out a door and shooting bullets through a door, you never know who might get hit. Sure. There's 16-page officer-involved shooting, Pathway Home, Yonville, California, Napa County Sheriff's Department ah with regard to Deputy Steve Lombardi that is put forth by Allison Haley, who's district attorney. Yeah. And and it clears the officer of any wrongdoing. it also indicates...
01:02:40
Speaker
that let's see he heard the scream of a woman and the rack of a gun i i wanted to find they don't report the autopsy oh i don't that so i don't know about that however i do i wanted to find what it said specifically they were killed execution style okay so they're all shot the back of the head or something like that and it was horrific and Yeah, I have read that the crime scene was absolutely terrible. And I figure that's why we don't have more of that out there. they They probably kept it based on the graphic nature. There were... He was blindly shooting, but there were holes in the door, so it wasn't like a secret.
01:03:22
Speaker
no no, I don't... Yeah, I wasn't saying he even did it and they covered it up. I was just saying maybe that's the reason... It's possible. I don't know that it would have mattered... Oh, let me let me finish my sentence. I didn't say it in a way that made any sense there.
01:03:38
Speaker
I'm wondering if the reason Albert abandons his hostage plans, which don't seem like he was really, mean, if that report is accurate on what he's Googling and doing that morning, maybe he didn't have actual hostage plans here.
01:03:57
Speaker
I was wondering if one of them got injured and he realized now's the time. He didn't take his phone inside, so he was not What if, oh, you you think that means he was never coming out? Oh, yeah. No, he was never coming out.
01:04:12
Speaker
but He knew it. This was less, this was more of a hostage situation because the police were all there, like, so quickly waiting to go in to rescue. i don't think that there was anything that could have been done here. i think it's absolutely ludicrous that they were staging for eight hours. Yeah.
01:04:33
Speaker
And the damage had already been done. yeah I think so. They were all dead. And the reason the baby is included is because the baby likely suffocated.
01:04:45
Speaker
yeah and So that came out, which would have to be from some sort of autopsy. But essentially, like, the baby—so the baby wasn't shot, but because the mom died— it wouldn't have had access to oxygen, I guess. yeah Which is horrific. But I don't know how much the shootout with the deputy accelerated things. And I don't know, like this report says that he left a note behind for his landlord basically apologizing and implicating that he he wouldn't be returning.
01:05:20
Speaker
Yeah. Which is weird. That's a weird thing to do. And the way that he like went in, dismissed certain people, shut the door, and then the shooting happened, and then that was it was over, right? I think that because he searched for murder-suicide when killing yourself is not enough or whatever, he something like that, he searched for that on his computer.
01:05:45
Speaker
Yeah. He was set on going out with a bang, basically. And, you know, there are people like it's interesting the combination of people he picked to do that. Yeah. It comes out in this DA a report also that he had specifically threatened death threats towards those three women. And he wasn't he hadn't been shy about it. Like he had been very upfront.
01:06:11
Speaker
about it i can understand why a professional working because they were like the director and a doctor and whatever else i can see where they might disregard death threats right yeah but it's always interesting when there's rumors of there were death threats and then somebody actually gets killed because you wonder like how on earth could that have happened yeah i agree Right. yeah And so it has to be something along the lines of they dismissed it or they thought they would talk him out of it. Or i'm not sure. I don't know what he was trying to accomplish. And I can't fit. There must have been some sort of deeper grudge here I think, because otherwise, why them? Yeah.
01:07:02
Speaker
Well, i think there were people that he had contact with at Pathway Holmes. And i I ultimately think you can't apply a lot of logic and rationale to his thinking and this incident as a whole. I think that like he was having trouble taking responsibility because of the disorder he was going through. because you know You said something interesting at the beginning. You said post-traumatic stress is something that everyone can suffer from, and most of us do.
01:07:27
Speaker
it's like The whole reason you know there's a syndrome or disorder, depending on how you want to call it, is because it's out of your control. And like you're having trouble dealing with it. That's why you're here. Great. And just to be clear, somebody who was suffering from debilitating PTSD, an actual thing, like they wouldn't have been capable of going to buy three guns and renting a car. and like There's a lot of holes here. Well, I mean, I would argue that...
01:07:59
Speaker
He's clearly not well because of his final action. No, yeah, you're right. He's not well. But is it just evil? No, I don't think it's evil. I think it's a lot of of lot of things. I think it's a lot of of very terrible issues that you end up in this situation shooting and killing people. I mean, I just think whatever it was is probably...
01:08:27
Speaker
i don't I don't think it's surmountable by anything they could have done for him. So in that regard, i think it's out of everybody's control.
01:08:38
Speaker
But I do kind of lend, I think I lend myself to the idea that like maybe there is a little evil in there and it was under control until the... the Moment he gets expelled, he just loses it.
01:08:54
Speaker
And he thinks he's you know going to be alone in the world and everything's going to be horrible, terrible. He just has to have someone to focus on. So he focuses on these people. Right. And I can't remember how long elapsed. It was like that week, right? Yeah.
01:09:07
Speaker
um It was within 10 days or so. I want to say that it said he had been expelled two weeks before the hostage taking based on, i think the final straw was the knife thing. Right. Okay. And so he was essentially, I am not a veteran, and i imagine anybody that served in active military tours of duty would have trouble adjusting. so you yeah. Yeah.
01:09:36
Speaker
I kind of realized that, but I think at the end of the day, he was having trouble taking responsibility for his own life. Yeah. And it was so much easier to blame everyone else.
01:09:46
Speaker
But ultimately, he did a terrible thing at the end because... I feel like none of this should have ever been in an orchestrated path to even be able to occur. I think you're 100% right on that part. um and Because what what the heck, right?
01:10:05
Speaker
Well, so Pathway Home at the time had been open for 10 years. they suspended operations indefinitely after this happened. They never reopened. Basically, they never came back to offer a residential program. um It relinquished the lease that it had at the Veterans Home there at Yonsville, And that program was basically considered over. There was a spokesperson who said that they were going to have a permanent shift in their mission. These were key personnel they had lost. And um this was going to result in in a lot of issues for them, including licensing disruptions. And, you know, I'm thinking maybe it wasn't working the way that they thought it was to begin with.
01:10:43
Speaker
And they had funding issues along the way. They had opened and closed several times over the year. I'm not blaming any of the people involved here. I'm just saying the fact that this program existed, this guy was able to do what he did at the end, probably a sign that maybe it wasn't working. yeah Exactly. yeah If nothing else, what wasn't working is the fail-safes that you would think would be in place weren't working. Sure. And it...
01:11:07
Speaker
It's glaring to me that that, again, he wasn't in prison. you know You're expelled from this, so that means you've got to go try and make it on your own. Good luck. Yeah. It's just a weird thing to happen, but I also understand that they were probably at their wits end because like they didn't live there. They had their own lives. This was their job, the victims, I mean. And, you know, they had rules yeah and he couldn't follow them.
01:11:33
Speaker
And so they, I'm sure the path was that, you know, well, you can't be here anymore since you, you know, I don't know what the standard punishment system was or whatever, but they were like, okay, you've broken the last rule you're allowed to break and now you're out.
01:11:48
Speaker
yeah But it cost them all their lives and... It was a waste because he, um i will never understand ah people who are going to commit suicide in a radical way and decide that they need to take other people with them. Yeah. And it's got to be a control grab, I guess.
01:12:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Whatever happened here, you know, I apologize. This is one of the darker hostage taking episodes, particularly because like, It's less hostage-taking. It's more perceived to have been hostage-taking by the authorities. And it's really just like, ah it's kind of murder-suicide that happens early on in what is initially thought to be some kind of kidnapping and hostage taking but ultimately what it is is triple quadruple murder suicide. ah very It's a very sad one which is you know I didn't think any of these were going to be all that happy but I say all of this to say if you go down this rabbit hole just be aware
01:12:53
Speaker
It actually gets a little infuriating. um I didn't bring in the lawsuit paperwork because it just gets more and more infuriating. Most of what's used there is kind of used from the perspective of the victim's families to justify this massive settlement that you pointed out later happened where they get $51 million. dollars well And I brought that up because, you know I guess people could say, well, you know, they made their bed hard and then they had to lay in it. And that's what happened through their own actions, except now you've got all the taxpayers having to pay for
$51 Million Settlement Discussion
01:13:25
Speaker
it. Right. Right.
01:13:26
Speaker
And it everything swings all the way around full circle. That's the only reason I brought that up. But it is crazy to me that that hat that that I mean, I'm not saying they didn't deserve a settlement. I'm just saying there should have been other things. that that This path should have never been orchestrated for this to happen, period. Right.
01:13:47
Speaker
And Violence Policy Center has some information on this case. They have the report you were reading from. um i think Allison Haley did it back then. They have a couple of the sort of summaries. Yeah.
01:14:03
Speaker
I know you can find somewhere on the Internet, if you look, you can find the California Highway Patrol report. And, you know, there are some rabbit holes that go down here. it is It's dark. It's definitely one of the darker things that that we covered during the hostage takings. There's lots of news, and there's a few court documents out there, but it's really related to the activities in 2020, 2021, and that end up resulting on twenty twenty two in It's a dark one.
01:14:34
Speaker
you have anything else on this one as far as like Albert Wong or the pathway home? No, may they all rest in peace.
01:14:53
Speaker
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01:15:04
Speaker
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01:17:09
Speaker
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01:17:27
Speaker
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