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Season Seven: Inside the Cold Case Investigation into the Unsolved Murder of Catherine Mowrey
210 Plays9 days ago
In this episode, Catrina Marshall takes us inside the investigation into Catherine Mowrey’s unsolved murder case from a unique perspective as she prods the Texas authorities to help her solve her aunt’s death.
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Transcript
Introduction and Case Background
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:00:57
Speaker
You've been away for a few minutes, three and a half years since we last like came on the show and talked about this.
Timeline of Events
00:01:05
Speaker
The audience has picked up on the case again because we reran the two older episodes on your aunt, Catherine Mowry, who goes by Katrina.
00:01:18
Speaker
But you're her namesake, Katrina. Correct. And you've been, I will say diligently on your part, ah trying to get progress on this case that we just told the audience about.
00:01:34
Speaker
And you sent me a timeline. Does it shock you that it's been like three and a half years since we've sat down to record something about this case? Yes, i was pretty flabbergasted about it when I went back to review it before today. Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yes. And originally you had reached out to me ah with a couple of things we had been talking about and i was going to just change the name of the episode and yeah we republish it. But because of the way our hosts have worked over the years, apparently that's, ah it's impossible now because it's from 2022. So we decided to rerun those episodes as the first part of the season And you made the comment, a lot has happened since the last time we sat down to record about this. Do you want to start there or you want to start with the timeline?
00:02:29
Speaker
ah Well, I'll probably honestly go with the timeline in mind anyway since then. Let's go to the beginning of your timeline just so that people get an understanding of how much you've captured here. Is that all right?
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, no, for sure. I just had to keep a timeline of it for my own sanity, just to kind of like, both document everything, for the most part, at least the main stuff, and then kind of, like, keep track of it and keep track of when. And that way I have, like, you know, those references I can look back on.
00:03:06
Speaker
It's interesting how you chose to do it. because So you sort of summarized at the beginning that this is about Catherine Katrina Diane Mowry. So her nickname is Katrina. That's going to come up how she gets that in just a second.
00:03:19
Speaker
And you're documenting her life from February 5th, 1961 up until June for part of the timeline. And then the you...
00:03:31
Speaker
the other part of the timeline is you Not just to you, though, because your mom is significantly involved in the events after 1985, which obviously we've talked about those.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah. And I just only put in really before the stuff that I felt might be possibly could be relevant to this now and what, you know, the factors that, you know, I took into account to influence how it ended up possibly happening.
00:04:07
Speaker
Which I think is an interesting approach, and it gives you something that, one, is shareable if you have to, and two, it makes a fantastic summary, although I will say it's got 15 pages to it.
00:04:20
Speaker
Sorry. No, no, it's not small is my point. Yeah, it's not. um No, no, it's not. The first item of note that's highlighted is obviously February 5th, 1961, when Katrina is born. She's the first of three girls. She is born to James and Catherine Mowry.
00:04:39
Speaker
ah You point out that in 1962, Joan Marie Mowry is born, who is your aunt, and Deborah Karen Mowry is born in 1963, who is your mom.
00:04:51
Speaker
Right. They are stair-step, like, back to back to back. this it was the happiest three years of James and Catherine's marriage.
00:05:01
Speaker
Well, there was two more too, but they were boys. I stopped at the girls because i I figured that would be the happiest three. Well, they're star stepped too. They're all star stepped back to 1959.
Katrina's Childhood and Family Dynamics
00:05:15
Speaker
I think two, three, and two two and three. Yeah.
00:05:21
Speaker
crazy So May of 1966 is your next highlighted moment. And that's that the three girls, so Deborah, Joan, and Katrina, they're kidnapped from their grandparents' yard by their father, James Edward Mowry. Yep.
00:05:46
Speaker
And he's going to drive them all the way to Dallas, Texas. And Catherine Mowry, their mother, is going to be looking for her daughters for almost two years.
00:05:58
Speaker
i Yep. I mean, that's I would probably be freaking out if that were the case for me. Yeah, yeah. Hunting for ah your children when your spouse has taken them, it's actually way more common than people think, but it never gets less terrifying.
00:06:18
Speaker
I'm sure. Especially in the 60s, you don't have technology like you do now. It's not as easy to track people and scan tag numbers and you know track cell phone location data and all that stuff. so Yeah, even just getting a phone number back then would have been a nightmare.
00:06:35
Speaker
Exactly. But that kind of, for me, kind of, I guess, pointed out their link to Dallas for the first time um and how they kind of got their footing there in the first place to begin with.
00:06:49
Speaker
While this is going on, is are the boys with mom? The boys are in school. So the girls are only like less than five years old and the boy the two boys are at school.
00:07:02
Speaker
I just can't imagine thinking it would be a good idea to take my three daughters and run away with them. Right. My grandmother hated his guts. She hated them. The next thing you highlight is kind of, i guess this is the person that you know as grandpa, sort of.
00:07:19
Speaker
My grandfather. So that's April 12th, 1974, when Catherine, so this is Katrina, your aunt's mom.
00:07:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. She marries a man named Robert Mowry. E-R-Y. Yes. Okay. Which is
The Crime and Discovery of the Body
00:07:39
Speaker
very confusing, by the way. Oh, I cannot believe it. You have no idea how much that's caused and be an issue.
00:07:47
Speaker
And they get married on Robert or Bob's birthday. Yeah. Yep. Interesting choice of anniversaries. But i get I get where he's coming from there because you're never going to forget your anniversary.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yep. He always said she was going to divorce him and marry him on a different day. Yep. I lived with him for quite a while, actually, in my childhood. So I imagine that influences a lot of what you're doing now. A lot. a lot, a lot. a while I lived with him for like five years while my mother was um incarcerated in the Penetra area at the women's prison here.
00:08:22
Speaker
um So they are who I lived with since my father was a truck driver and was over the road all the time. When that was going on, what age were you? i was in elementary school, um probably um third, fourth or second, third grade-ish, maybe. Okay.
00:08:42
Speaker
I can't remember exactly. Well, it was the ninety s like late ninety s like very late 90s into the early two thousand So, and I was born in 91. and so i think she went in 98. That was pretty young. So like first, second grade. Okay.
00:09:01
Speaker
So you have a lot of bonding time with your grandparents during all of that. And I have a lot of time with them alone, where, like, when my mom was growing up, it was crazy siblings, because my my grandfather, he also had children from his prior marriage. So was like the Brady Bunch in there, and they all had different last name spellings, even though they all had the same last name.
00:09:25
Speaker
the the the The two names, like, and like i remember early on when we first started talking about this case and you and I first started communicating, I was like, wow, I don't know.
00:09:38
Speaker
What are the odds, right? no but But then but there and I realized later, it's Both of these names are spelled differently. For the audience who can't see like the documents we're looking at right this second, you're talking about the difference between M-O-W-R-E-Y and M-O-W-E-R-Y. And it creates an incredibly confusing Brady Bunch family squares there when the names are slightly different.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yes, it does. And I know like when I looked at my grandfather, my biological grandfather's like death certificate stuff, my grandma had actually crossed out the spelling of it because they had spelled it the way that his was spelled and she fixed it on there.
00:10:25
Speaker
i was like, oh, grandma, that's funny. So you move forward in time with your timeline to 1984. ah Specifically, you pick up in January of 1984. And that is on the 5th, Catherine was in a car accident in Kansas City, Missouri.
00:10:44
Speaker
And this was in the early morning hours near where she worked, but it was off of I-435, right? It's right. Yeah. It's right off the main highway that is kind of connecting with Kansas City, Missouri and Kansas City, Kansas. Cause she lived in Lawrence, Kansas in 1984 for a little while. She was back and forth a lot.
00:11:04
Speaker
So she was working at the country club in Kansas City and was on her way home from work after we're waitressing. All day or whatever. so she ends up with some pretty serious injuries. She ends up with a neck injury and broken bones in her back, as well as cuts and bruises.
00:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, she was thrown from the vehicle and landed on the train tracks. This is the 1980 Chevrolet that she's driving when this happens? Yep, and I don't know whose car that was. I think it was hers, and that's why she had started borrowing, as you'll see.
00:11:40
Speaker
later on in the timeline, someone else's car. So you make a note here that on August 13th, 1984, one of the suspects or one of the people that are on our shortlist because of their affiliation with Katrina, he's arrested for a robbery while working for a cab company.
00:12:01
Speaker
and And he, since he worked for the cab company, he you know, and not just that, but he had a lot of different forms or methods of transportation. so he was the one that loaned her the car that she was found in. So that's going to fast forward a year for us.
00:12:22
Speaker
Okay. But you do point out that Christmas day, Katrina is in Lawrence, Kansas, and her family is there because, know, you've physically seen photographs from that day.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yep. So then we move into 1985. The other suspect, we'll call him suspect too. he has an interesting nickname, but I don't even think we should give that away. Well, yeah, it's crazy. I don't know who'd be afraid of that kind of a street nickname, but it is what it is in April of 1985, he is pulled over and arrested for being in possession of marijuana.
00:12:59
Speaker
And it looks to me like you actually pulled ah Dallas police report for that. Is that correct? I did. I requested records eventually. Actually, that one was more recent than I got back. Finally, it took some records are so fast and quick and easy to get. And then other ones take months and months months.
00:13:19
Speaker
Yeah. its and I think it has to do with the weight of the information in the record sometimes. Right. Well, yeah. And I was just kind of trying to track suspects a little bit or persons of interest kind of leading up to, you know, the death as well. and kind of point on a map like, you know, they were in this area and doing and, you know, socializing around this part of town and, you know, just kind of to visualize it.
00:13:50
Speaker
well So in this, you pulled a quote, and that quote was that this particular suspect had stated he was at the Meadowbrook Motel the night before, and he had done some coke and smoked some weed.
00:14:05
Speaker
um Why did you pull that? um It just kind of shows, you know, like the state of mind he was in like right before or what he was involved in and like his activities that could correlate with some of the, I guess, assumptions on this case.
00:14:25
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Specifically like that there was potentially drug use surrounding. Yes, exactly. And that, you know, it it could be essentially a possible motive
00:14:39
Speaker
You also noted his car, which was fantastic. You got it down to the tag number. like not, it's not just the car. You noted the exact model. um just It was on the report. So to me, that part's important because of her being found in a car and I got to figure out whose car is which and all that stuff. so Right.
00:14:58
Speaker
And then you also were able to narrow down an address for him or at least a listed address for that time period. Mm-hmm. Or that police report where he was supposedly living, yeah.
00:15:12
Speaker
So you then, a month later, you're able to hunt down through a background check. And then, i think this actually comes by you like looking for information about your aunt specifically with her name.
00:15:27
Speaker
She's involved as the prosecution's witness in an incident, May 30th of 1985. with a man who would best be described as kind of suspect number three. hu That's a suspect I never knew about. Okay.
00:15:44
Speaker
Until after my mom had passed away and everything. like i The DA's office actually gave me the four names of those ah four official suspects that they have.
00:15:56
Speaker
Okay. And so this guy, the way that you note this is that this man is arrested for breaking down Katrina's apartment door and having a firearm on him.
00:16:08
Speaker
Law enforcement were nearby, but they weren't there for this. They were there for an unrelated call, but they saw this happening. They witnessed the incident.
00:16:19
Speaker
And they arrest him, and it's going to be about a year. um In March of 1986, he's going to plead guilty to, I think it's a misdemeanor, unlawful carrying of a weapon.
00:16:32
Speaker
Right, but he had other warrants already from other jurisdictions as well for likes you know traffic or something, I believe it was as well. And he's kind of one of the more interesting suspects because we because of the timing. Mm-hmm.
00:16:49
Speaker
Your next highlighted spot in here is June 18th, 1985. And the way that you summarize this is that Katrina was planning to drive home to Kansas to visit with her little sister, your mom, and with other family members. But prior to this trip, your mom and your aunt, they get into an argument over the phone and mom ends up hanging up on her sister.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, that was the last time she ever spoke to her. Right. Which ah is yeah, yeah that that's a terrible memory to
Autopsy and Police Challenges
00:17:27
Speaker
have. And obviously.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, it ate her alive until she died. Yeah. From the inside out. Yep. So then June twenty third We have this report that Jennifer Day is supposedly the last person to see Katrina Maury alive, and it's at 6.20 a.m. on the 23rd.
00:17:50
Speaker
And the idea is that they have a shared apartment. um yeah We've narrowed that down, but
00:18:03
Speaker
the way that you phrase it is even though we have these three apartments that are possibly theirs, um, Dallas has since basically retracted the roommate's name.
00:18:14
Speaker
And according to you, after we talked the last time on July 1st, 2023, they don't really know where this came from. Right. Yeah. I don't, every time that they've ever went over anything with me, they seem to either find something that they haven't mentioned before or Rick Hanson.
00:18:36
Speaker
Right. But this is why I like document it as I'm, you know, on a call or, you know, an email. I, that's why it's exactly why. and I date them.
00:18:46
Speaker
That's. I mean, it clearly, and that would make me want to call more because maybe I'll get a partner or a supervisor and they'll give me even more information. Cause I'm getting, you know, these bits and pieces.
00:19:00
Speaker
Well, the two addresses um were interesting because they didn't know what her address was at the time of her death, even though a month earlier, not even three weeks earlier, they were just called to her residence because someone kicked her door in, but they have no idea what her address is when at the time of her death, which I found very intriguing, um a little bit suspicious.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's literally three weeks earlier. yeah so I'm like, well, it's right here. On this report, I'm so... what? ah Yeah, I don't... One
00:19:37
Speaker
one plus one is two? I don't know. Then we get to the... the probably the most horrifying date in here. I'd say there's actually a more horrifying date for you personally, but June 25th, 1985. The report here that you uncovered, and then you have notes in here, and I'll go over them kind of separately.
00:19:58
Speaker
Basically, the Dallas police find her body either at or near this intersection. yeah it's in an alley between, like, two buildings.
00:20:09
Speaker
The trunk of the car is locked, but Katrina is in the trunk. But it's locked from the outside. Right, with a key. Mm-hmm. And this vehicle appears to have been reported as an abandoned vehicle.
00:20:23
Speaker
You noted that you have... the vehicle they say it is with a tag number. Yep. And you also put a a quick note in here that suspect number one we talked about is the owner of this vehicle and alleged to be either a boyfriend or just romantic interest of some kind.
00:20:46
Speaker
And then you note that you've determined through public records that he was married at the time. That's correct. And I didn't find that out until way later on either. I was just um going through like marriage records and stuff and, you know, Dallas County and doing some tree building and family trees and stuff and found, you know, I stumbled upon their marriage license.
00:21:14
Speaker
And know so that means that not only was he the owner of the vehicle, but so was the wife at that time. Was that one of those things that like shocked you, but not really shocked you?
00:21:26
Speaker
I wasn't really shocked by the the fact that they, that it was a marriage or or anything. I was just shocked that there was someone period who could have possibly, you know, had motive at that point. It it kind of highlighted another possibility of, you know, possibility. Right. It highlights like either one of them could be involved the table or both.
00:21:51
Speaker
You said something interesting in this. This is a longer summary for people um wondering why I'm belaboring this because it is kind of, it's terrible, but at the same time we have to go through it.
00:22:02
Speaker
it The vehicle was noted to have been parked in this alley since Saturday night, even though technically at one point we have a witness seeing her on Sunday morning. Their timelines are wrong.
00:22:16
Speaker
What? Yeah. no So that would move us back to June 22nd as being when this vehicle is left here. Allegedly. But they're saying, you know, the car was parked there that Saturday night, at least, that they remember.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yet someone has a written statement that is now nowhere to be found that they had seen her alive and well, you know, that Sunday morning. And it's noted that they talked to a nearby apartment complex manager, which is where they think they get the information from the vehicle having been there since Saturday night. Yeah, she's the one that called into the police and reported it being there since Saturday night. And it was confirmed by like four or five different people that were associated with the complex, like the maintenance man maybe two even and, you know, residents and whatnot.
00:23:09
Speaker
So a basic canvas puts this vehicle there for a couple of days, basically. okay And they note that the the time that they find Katrina in the trunk is 4.52.
00:23:22
Speaker
four fifty two So it's in the afternoon. But they were there earlier, I think. um They just had to sit out there and wait for a tow truck to bring like a crowbar that they could use to try to pry the trunk open.
Family Struggles and Advocacy Efforts
00:23:35
Speaker
And that's because of being locked from the outside with a key.
00:23:38
Speaker
Exactly. Okay. Like it locks when you shut it, but then like, you know, the older vehicles, you also lock with like a separate key as well. What is your understanding as to Katrina's size?
00:23:52
Speaker
Oh, she's tiny. She's always been tiny. Very petite, like a hundred pounds, 120 pounds. That's what I was picturing too. I just was... you know When you start thinking of people in the trunk of a car, like the the visual of that, i think, escapes a lot of people because cars were so much larger in the 70s. Yeah, that that car was big. Even if even though was a two-door, especially, it was still like a hoopty is what we'd call it here. Yeah.
00:24:18
Speaker
Right. Yeah. It's it's ah it's a lanyard, basically. In the trunk of the car at 452, they find Katrina's nude body. She is wrapped in a white bed sheet.
00:24:31
Speaker
And there is something described as a cloth belt wrapped around her neck. And you made a note here under the sheet could have possibly been a pillowcase question mark.
00:24:44
Speaker
Is that an investigative note from you or is That's me. That's me. Well, and it's just based on the fact that she's wrapped in a sheet and they call it a cloth belt, which is, but they don't call it that until the end of the autopsy, but at the beginning of the autopsy notes, it's just a belt.
00:25:03
Speaker
it's almost like it kind of,
00:25:07
Speaker
lessens the severity of it as you go along in the autopsy report you know and then you know like it's either i think it's probably either pillowcase because of the sheet part in particular and then also you know I know my mom and my aunts always would wear their robes after they got out of the shower and stuff you know the the cloth belts on like a robe like a bathrobe or something yeah that was my other thought And then you note that there was a second belt wrapped around her neck that's outside the sheet.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, i never knew there was any belt ever. No one did ever know that part. It came from your investigation. Right. ah You note here that given the level decomposition, they were unable to see any visible superficial marks or wounds on her body.
00:25:58
Speaker
You write here that the toxicology report comes back all clear for all drugs. Yes. At the time of her death, they say there was no drugs in her system and the alcohol would have been decompositional fluid.
00:26:11
Speaker
You then point out that you hunted into this in June of 2023 Dallas police ended up stating that there was, quote, some type of ligature or tie on top of the sheet around the neck and also directly on the skin as well. And that's where you get this information from, right? Well, yes. I mean, when I when i saw the the whole jaw drop moment for me in all of this is probably the day I received the copy of the autopsy and toxicology in my mailbox.
00:26:46
Speaker
That for me was probably like and pick my jaw up off the floor moment of all of them. Because at that point, my mom was already gone. and everything. Like no one ever knew anything like that or knew that there weren't drugs in her system. They had just been led to believe that all along. And so that for me was just so jaw dropping on so many different levels about so many different things. You know, I don't know how we ever get to the point where this isn't a homicide, by the way.
00:27:16
Speaker
Right. yeah I mean, i just, I know we've addressed that before, but like, I'm just want to restate it because People don't make their way into bedsheets and tie themselves up and put themselves on a chunk of a car that's locked with a key.
00:27:30
Speaker
You know, all of those details are important. From the outside. Right. Right. Yeah. Because it's the involvement of another person at that point. Well, I mean, that's regardless, it's still illegal to, you know, hide a body. Right.
00:27:43
Speaker
body yeah Right, right. Depending on the jurisdiction you're in, this is either a desecration or concealment of a corpse or potentially ah concealing a death, which is sometimes considered more serious because it it can impede investigations into what caused that death.
00:28:03
Speaker
So Wednesday, June 26, 1985, her autopsy is performed. ah The following day, a supplemental investigative report which has a murder classification is filed.
00:28:18
Speaker
And so we have a detective in charge of this case. He's known as P e detective P e Jones. Yep. Um, it's pretty well known. I think in the Dallas area, he was on a bunch of different episodes of like the first 48 and everything. And so he's the one who talks with your mom over the years. Yep.
00:28:34
Speaker
Until he retires, of course, in 2004 or something, I think, or 2002, maybe. So July 6th of 1985, there's burial and funeral held in Lawrence, Kansas.
00:28:48
Speaker
Correct. Her obituary comes out the following Monday. And it has her named as Katrina Mowry, M-O-W-R-E-Y.
00:29:01
Speaker
And it states that the circumstances surrounding her death are still under investigation by the Dallas, Texas Police Department. Yeah, that's exactly what it says in the newspaper. so they were under that and like they were under that impression. Yes. I mean, it's it's clear not only just because they told me so, but in stuff like this, too, it just kind of backs up everything I've always been told. So you skip ahead in your timeline.
00:29:26
Speaker
ah The first place you skip to is another you know potentially ah awful day for the family. And it's also in Dallas, Texas, and that's April of 1993, when Joanne Mowry, who is your mom's older sister.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yeah, my mom's the youngest, so they were all older than her. It's the middle sister. Katrina's the oldest sister. But Joanne is the middle sister. Correct. Yep. So she's murdered at the Linfield Motel in Dallas, Texas.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yep. And that case has a suspect. and hu that case is closed, but he, like, it's, like, there's so much time in between now and then, like he got out on parole, like, 12 years ago, right?
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, he did, like, 25 years or something, and then was paroled, um, without our knowledge, by
Niece's Pursuit for Justice
00:30:21
Speaker
the way. No one ever communicated that like they were supposed to, um do, so.
00:30:27
Speaker
Okay. That had another big, huge, profound effect on my mom when she found out.
00:30:35
Speaker
ah Speaking of effects on mom, she loses her mother, your grandmother, in October of 2007. Yep. yep And so your timeline then jumps ahead, like, a lot.
00:30:51
Speaker
it It comes up in September or so of 2020. You start taking over. i assume, like, up to this point. COVID. Yeah. I was going to say a couple of things about that. One was mom's getting older.
00:31:10
Speaker
Two is COVID and you have nothing else to do at the moment, right? Exactly. yeah That's exactly what it was. So you dive head first into this. September 9th, you reach out to the Dallas Police Department.
00:31:23
Speaker
You had, I guess, spoken to your mom and she basically indicated to you she wasn't getting any any information from them. Well, yeah, she never really would push, though. She was so sensitive and emotional around the topic itself in general that, like, she didn't really know how to push for the answers or ask the right questions. And she'd take anything they said and just be like, oh, okay, yeah, that thank you. Like, I don't want any more, like...
00:31:50
Speaker
that's all. Thank you. That's good. I just wanted to make sure there was no update or, you know, some, that kind of thing. And, and so I felt like they kind of took advantage of her that way and, you know, use that to their advantage so that she would stop asking a lot.
00:32:04
Speaker
That just didn't sit well with you, huh? No, that pissed me off because I know my mom's very sensitive and she's fragile emotionally and mentally, you know, especially at that point. And like,
00:32:17
Speaker
I was just annoyed. Like, cause I was, my mom and I were opposites. So I was more of like, she's like all bark and no bite. And I'm like, all bite and not that much bark. You just do it.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. I'm very, she always called me a scrappy. Like she always said I was a scrapper. but i don't think I would take that as anything but the best of compliments.
00:32:41
Speaker
I hope so. By September 11, 2020, you didn't get a response from Dallas Police Department. And in your summary, you say you started to get red flags. So what were the red flags?
00:32:56
Speaker
They tried to give me the runaround when I called and asked about it. It took them like a month just to respond and so and acknowledge my inquiry in the first place. like It was just...
00:33:09
Speaker
You know, I just felt, I just got the vibe. I don't even know. I can't tell you what exactly in particular it was. It just, it was all as a whole, I think. And I just kind of just, I don't know. I'm really good at reading like into people's like vibe. and This just wasn't doing it for you then.
00:33:27
Speaker
And they weren't really like sure of anything. They weren't like confident in anything they said. They weren't direct in any information. They weren't, They sent me in, like, circles, and they just kept, like, kind of trying to lessen the severity of the situation.
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, just that kind of stuff, just kind of as a whole, just kind of didn't sit right with me. And so I guess their intent was probably to get you to...
00:33:57
Speaker
to chill out or to leave them alone. and instead you ordered Katrina Mowry's death certificate. You put in a public information act request, which is like the official Texas public records request for Dallas in this instance.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah. I needed something in black and white because they weren't giving me much of anything. my mom, i i didn't bring it up unless she did just to avoid, you know, the tears. Yeah.
00:34:28
Speaker
Um, and like, you know, i just needed something in black and white that was not hopefully biased and, you know, just to kind of put the facts out there.
00:34:40
Speaker
and I wanted to know what her cause of death was in the manner because that was important to me. That way I could see whether or not it was you know correct and if it actually warranted an actual investigation or not based on that determination.
00:34:59
Speaker
this point, I hate to say it this way, but you're going through the bureaucracy. like There's a lot of steps that you take. you The records department reaches out, wants to know what you want, and they want information about you. Why who I am and how I'm related. Right. Right.
00:35:16
Speaker
So then you message to them, and they point out that, like, oh, this case is really, really old. It's hard for us to deal with something that's 35 years old. We have to get it from the archives. It's going to be a while.
00:35:31
Speaker
And in October, you get a message from the homicide unit lieutenant at Dallas Police Department, and he states, I don't have access to non-murder files that old, meaning 35 years old I can only determine it was not a murder in Dallas in 1985. Yeah. And then he said that they didn't have anyone with that last name as a murder on any date in the city of Dallas, which I thought was interesting since I've had two ants, two with the same last name and spelling murdered in Dallas.
00:36:05
Speaker
That is interesting. And that is such a unique set of circumstances to be able to reference. I'm like, you don't have file about any Maori being murdered in Dallas. That's that's crazy. Because I've had two different aunts that have been murdered there. and Then he tried to say something like, well it could have been, you know, not in the city limits. Or maybe it was Dallas County.
00:36:30
Speaker
and I'm like, no, it was not. So at this point, did you dig in Is that the idea? like Like, mentally, are you just like, I'm going to do this? Well, he felt very calm. Like, he's...
00:36:42
Speaker
he was very like condescending and kind of patronizing. I felt like, and i I know I'm, you know, fairly smart individual and I do not appreciate the insult to my intelligence. Sure. I'm not an investigator or detective, but like, I'm not an idiot, you know, like and someone who deals with a lot of police officers. I have to tell you, you've done more work than most of them ever do. Mm-hmm.
00:37:12
Speaker
And that's the politest way that I can put it. There's a series of events at the end of 2020. One of the first things that happens is you end up getting the death certificate.
00:37:23
Speaker
It comes in the mail in early October, right? Yep. And then ah my mom said, as soon as you get it, because she knew I ordered it and she would check with me every day. Did you get it? Did you get it? Because she's in Arizona and I'm in Kansas. And i'm like, no, no, no. And then i finally got it. And I knew as soon as I got it, I was like, damn it.
00:37:43
Speaker
This is not going to go well. And it doesn't.
00:37:48
Speaker
A month later, your mom commits suicide. Yep.
00:37:54
Speaker
That is a very difficult situation for anyone to be in let alone someone who. is doing what you're doing and the efforts that you're putting forward to basically trying to c assist your mom, but also your aunts and to satisfy your own skepticism and curiosity.
00:38:13
Speaker
And then that had to be emotionally an earthquake. Yes. And it was at that point, it was just like, take, take one family member, take two family members, take the last family member, you know, like,
00:38:27
Speaker
As far as I'm concerned, I think Della says the blood on their hands of all three of them. but um And I didn't really think that all the way, at least, until I received my mom's psychiatric records from the um records requests that I did on her doctors that were 25 years long and 2,000 pages long, where she details in you know appointments specifically her words.
00:38:51
Speaker
the effects that this had like these communications and everything end up having on her and how she feels about them and how she shows up to these appointments and tears and crying and doesn't want to live anymore and wishes she doesn't wake up the next day and you know brushing her hair and looking in the mirror and her sisters are looking back at her not being able to watch tv shows not being able to watch movies um because of the memories and stuff that it brings up or stirs up inside of her.
00:39:25
Speaker
Yeah. Like what most people think of as like reflective nostalgia in their life. i mean, if you lose one sister to violence, it becomes complicated. If you lose two to violence, it becomes a nightmare.
00:39:41
Speaker
And I'm born right in the middle of each murder. So. Well, you become the bright spot in things for Exactly. Exactly. And I was the way, you know, for her to honor, you know, her sister and
Renewed Media Attention and Investigation
00:39:52
Speaker
all that. And then, so she's got this new outlook on life and isn't as depressed and she's found love and marriage with my dad and all this stuff.
00:40:01
Speaker
And then of course, 93 comes around and I'm like two. And yeah, that part she couldn't quite bounce back from afterwards. Yeah. Yeah, that would be very difficult.
00:40:12
Speaker
I know that they she went to the trial and the da ah the DA's office flew her out there to Dallas and everything. And they put her on the stand and showed her the pictures. And she immediately started puking.
00:40:26
Speaker
oh man. Most people at this point would hire a private investigator or they would just start pestering the police. I have to say, you took...
00:40:37
Speaker
like so many different avenues here. and I mean this in only positive ways. I've never seen somebody bulldog a situation like this. And I, I hope that like the next stuff that I say will give people who are in this situation that you're in First of all, I hope no one's in that situation, but we know that people out there are trying to get information about family members' violent passings.
00:41:07
Speaker
And the way that you did it is absolutely fascinating. You start in February 2021. Well, the only reason that happened, though, is because i obviously lost my mom, so I had to grieve. i was grieving for a while. I still had COVID when she passed. i So I was very like cloudy memory-wise. I was just very out of it.
00:41:27
Speaker
It was pretty bad at that point, and a lot of people were dying from it. It was pretty bad. We were ordered to stay home like by our governor and everything. like it was just like It was kind of brutal at that point, of course, sick-wise, but also emotionally, obviously. But then when i received that report in February, the year after she died, which would have been November, that's what reignited again.
00:41:53
Speaker
I guess you could say, which shouldn't have taken that long to begin with, but it did. It's fine. Whatever. it was COVID. I give him the benefit of the doubt, I guess. But you start to see a lot of things are redacted.
00:42:05
Speaker
Everything was redacted, but yeah. So when you see that, like, I totally understand how redactions occur and how different jurisdictions are,
00:42:18
Speaker
but The police report alone was like two pages at the most, maximum. And they redacted like, you know, all it is is a black block. block ah so but But doesn't that just make you want to know more?
00:42:32
Speaker
no I pretty much know what it says. And so that's why I don't really understand why they redacted it. Okay. You start reaching out to even more people as 2021 goes along. You reach out to...
00:42:45
Speaker
had to get creative. It had to come to me randomly. Do you remember like what made you think of Othram Labs? Well, they weren't popular at that point. They weren't big. They weren't a well-known name. They didn't have the credibility that they do now. Yeah.
00:43:04
Speaker
You know, or anything like that at that point. um I had just, I was taking classes um on criminology and doing like, um what did I do? It was a certification on um testing Yeah.
00:43:21
Speaker
strands with no roots um and stuff. And that's when Offroom came up in my mind and was like, I don't remember how exactly, maybe in the class reading or something. I don't know. But so then I reached out and started talking with the Dave, David Middleman, I think is his name. And we started texting back and forth. And then, you know, we had a meeting over Zoom or something. I think it was. That was a while back. Yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
But then they got huge. And then, you know, they kind of got lost in the frenzy. But yeah. That's all right. I mean, you were still plowing ahead. And you haven't even gotten started at what I find the most fascinating parts of this. Well, they they either agreed to do the testing.
00:44:08
Speaker
But Dallas won't wouldn't give them the evidence. Okay. Shortly after you start talking to Othram, you do set up a petition to try and get some attention to the case and to try and get some kind of response out of the Dallas Police Department.
00:44:28
Speaker
And how does that go? it doesn't.
00:44:34
Speaker
When did you realize, like, is that something that you you give it a minute or you start right away? like Not right away. I mean, i I try and be fair at least. You know, I know they have a job to do. I know they have other stuff to take care of or whatever. You know, i I do really give them the benefit of the doubt in a lot of situations here. But eventually it's just kind of like, come on.
00:45:01
Speaker
Like, what are you doing? This is where you ramp up what you're doing, but you also start to get, at the same time you're getting feedback and information, you're getting pushback. Yeah, well, when one door closes, you have to open another one somewhere, or a window or something, and I had to do a lot of those.
00:45:21
Speaker
I had to get creative. i had to kind of like go down paths that weren't. traditional like you know type of things and friend people and get into the crowd and you know true crime in general and that's just the whole group in itself alone you know it is a strange community yes yes and you know and so i i made connections i made friends i you know i they made you know i helped people with their cold cases that were both solved now and unsolved still. Um, and you know, I'd really made some really good acquaintances and friends still, even we're all still friends, a lot of us. So, 2022, you decide that maybe the door, cause like, I have a feeling you see life as an endless hallway. There's always a door, right?
00:46:14
Speaker
o Kind of sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. It never came to me right away. It always came to me at the most random moments. I would be working or something, and then all of a sudden I would think, hey, maybe I should try this. I wonder if this person could help me. you know like It always came to me at the most random times. But that's the best that is the best attitude to take in a situation like yours.
00:46:40
Speaker
um i think I think it would be very easy to get frustrated or angry, even depressed. um But the ability to, like like you've sent me emails even recently. You're like, hey I'm looking at this old murder case from the year before the year after. What do you think of this?
00:46:56
Speaker
And I am always sort of taken back by how positive you are and how how tenacious you are, I think is the right word. Because like you're still researching this. like Even as we're talking today, when's the last time you had a thought and went and like looked up something to see if it might lead to something? About five minutes ago. Okay, there you go. yeah So you reach out to see what the process is like to file a complaint on an officer. Specifically, you're looking at the fact that like
00:47:31
Speaker
you don't have a good contact at Dallas police. It's like at least giving you information. Yeah. At all. Like I would rather than answer me or respond and say we don't have an update at this time than to just not say anything at all.
00:47:49
Speaker
Okay. You file a formal complaint with the office of the ah attorney, the the attorney general's office of Texas. Mm-hmm. I have a lot of experience with these.
00:48:05
Speaker
That was on my birthday, too. i was going to say I was going to say, and by the way, we're doing all of this on your birthday this year. And I noticed that that was also your birthday when you filed this formal complaint. Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
And couple weeks later, you do get a response from the office of the Texas Attorney General. Yeah, and they also had CC'd me on a couple of emails about it that I didn't realize what was going on there for a second until I kind of looked into it more and realized that they were just copying me on the communications that they were having back and forth with the records, you know, people and not releasing because I appealed the original police report that they sent me that was redacted completely. out i appealed that release and wanted them to release it unredacted. And or give me something or more to it. Like, I know it's not just that one page in your file. Like, I know there's more. And that's when they did release the second part of the report with the murder classification on it.
00:49:08
Speaker
Well, that had to be at least a little bit of confirmation for you to know that there is a piece of paper saying somebody thought this is murder. Right. An official report, yes. It was and a supplemental investigation report by the detectives the to the day after.
00:49:24
Speaker
yeah By February 2022, you get another idea to reach out directly to the assistant district attorney who handles the a special victims unit for Dallas County. And that's the homicides, the sexual assaults.
00:49:41
Speaker
And they respond to you. On Twitter. Which is... that What made you do that? um ah Again, it was just an idea.
00:49:53
Speaker
ah i wasn't sure if it would work or anything. i wasn't sure if anyone would respond. um i had stirred the i had stirred the shit pot, so to speak, enough to where at this point it was pretty...
00:50:08
Speaker
I mean, you could Google the name of my aunt and you would see all kinds of stuff. I had really put it out there in the media and, you know, podcasts and articles. And it was, it was kind of getting some good attention and everything. And so at that point, um, you know, I had a bit of a Twitter following and it was kind of my more credible, like approach or public, um, image and everything. And so, that's usually the medium I've gone the whole time to reach out to anybody, media wise, journalists, um, government figures or anything like that.
00:50:46
Speaker
And it starts to get you a little bit of information. Yes. You actually like, uh, this amazes me, but like you get really detailed with your record keeping, which was already detailed. So yeah,
00:51:01
Speaker
so They hook you up with a victim's advocate in the DA's office, which that's ah that's a double-edged sword to some degree, but at least it's someone to reach out to.
00:51:15
Speaker
And then by March, you've reached out to the Southwest Institute of Forensic Science to get an official copy of the Autopsy and Toxicology Report. Yeah, and at that point, I'd already been in communication with the DA's office, of course.
00:51:27
Speaker
But then when I got that, you know, like a month later, i i was messaging and was like, what the heck did I just see This is not okay. And they were like, oh, my God. Yeah, no, it's not.
00:51:39
Speaker
It's not okay. So you spend March, you file a complaint with the Department of Justice, which is a civil rights complaint, right? Yes, for the... um kind of dismissiveness of communication with DPD.
00:51:55
Speaker
Right. yeah And then you submit a civilian complaint form. Right. So all this stuff is kind of coming from different angles for different situations and different communications and different like scenarios that is all going on simultaneously at this point.
00:52:11
Speaker
And then you reach to the lab, like you follow up with the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences by email to make sure that they've gotten your written requests and your payment for the report. Yeah, DPD wouldn't give it to me.
00:52:30
Speaker
And so I went around them and just requested it directly myself. And so by the time you're doing that you follow up on it, you actually end up getting it in the mail the same day, right? They were literally snail mail pandemic like era. like just payment I had to send in like an actual money order or something too. I had it back within a week like max. like That's how quickly they got that to me. It was insane. I just couldn't believe it.
00:53:02
Speaker
At this point, you also add Katrina's case into like the uncovered cold case database just so it can get a little more attention and maybe maybe somebody there can think of a new door for you in your hallway, right? Right, and it was just kind of somewhere to document it um and just kind of have like a a home, so to speak, of where people could find you know the details of the information and everything.
00:53:29
Speaker
And by April 8th, 2022, you actually have not just stirred a shit pot. You've gotten your way into a courtroom, sort of.
00:53:41
Speaker
The Dallas DA, a they end up getting a judge to sign off on a search warrant for the evidence room at Dallas Police Department. so That was not easy. That was not an easy feat. It was in the works for long time.
00:53:57
Speaker
And i think I think that's where you really get into like things other people can't accomplish. like the you You get a search warrant, or they you know through your efforts, they get a search warrant, not just for Dallas Police Department, but also for Southwestern Forensics.
00:54:15
Speaker
and Well, and they had to do the biological and the physical evidence. Yeah. But like, they kind of were just like, you know, I'm not, I don't think there is any, but just in case we can request it or, you know, just kind of like, and that shows a lot right there. Just the fact that they did preserve evidence from the crime scene alone shows that that was not an undetermined death that they had always had suspicions that something wasn't right to begin with.
00:54:43
Speaker
It sort of takes a turn here because the Department of Justice actually gets back to you, but they're not going to move forward with a Civil Rights Division investigation.
00:54:54
Speaker
Right. And that's fine. I didn't really expect them to. I just needed that paper trail of, you know, the effort itself and the documented, you know, action that was reported, you know, because it gets, it gets more and more and more, you know, as time goes on, it just continues. And so now you know, I've built up over the years, just so much documentation and communication and proof, really just a paper trail of effort.
00:55:22
Speaker
That's just ongoing. I think the door that opens after that closed is you then file a complaint with the professional responsibility and standards or what's known as internal affairs with the Dallas Police Department.
00:55:37
Speaker
o And does anything ever come of that? Nope, not on that one, which is, again, fine. I just needed the case number to show I reported it. And I got it. And so that's, you know, just another checkmark in the box where, you know, anytime I talk to them, they're like, well, you can start and do this. You can request this. Or since you didn't request it twice, we didn't think you still wanted it or something stupid like that.
00:56:03
Speaker
but I basically had to go through and jump through their hoops and kind of go through the process and the freaking stupid hoop jumping and do all their shenanigans.
00:56:15
Speaker
So that gets us to 2022. around this time is when we released our first episodes. yeah You, in the background, you you sent out a request that summer to get medical records from Lawrence Memorial Hospital related to your aunt.
00:56:31
Speaker
And they come back and say that they don't have anything. And then you do the weirdest thing I've ever seen somebody do. And I cannot applaud you enough for having done this. i already know what you're going to say.
00:56:46
Speaker
You decide that you are going to apply for the Prosecutor Academy internship at the Dallas District Attorney's Office.
00:56:57
Speaker
Not only do you decide you're going to do it, you get confirmation that you've formally been accepted and that the background checks are underway and you've got to do a couple of things. But like you literally take this to the point that you take an internship with the District Attorney's Academy.
00:57:15
Speaker
it was It was very, um i guess you could say, like, a wild hair up your, you know, what like, kind of thing. I was just like, F it. What's the worst that they could say no? They're probably going to just say no, because I'm not even in Dallas, but...
00:57:30
Speaker
It's COVID anyways. This is kind of the end of COVID really. I cannot believe like they actually did that. And it was like a long time too. It was a while. it went on for a couple of few months and it was like twice a week or once a week. And, you know, every week we met with like different departments and, you know, people within the DA's office and the investigative units and how they investigate this and how their courts you know, system goes from this step to this step to that step. And, you know, it's very interesting to get the inside look of how things are supposed to work realistically, even though they don't.
00:58:07
Speaker
That was a hard one to bite my tongue on a lot of times, but I i don't think that they ever had any clue that it was me the whole time. And that's the part that makes me like, I don't know how to explain to you when you texted me that I was like, she did what?
00:58:25
Speaker
Because it it was such a bold thing to do. And i am sure whether you, I'm sure you know this, but like so much information comes out of those things that like, it can seem useless to the average person if you're not going into that career field. Yeah.
00:58:45
Speaker
I had to educate myself because no one seemed to know what they were doing and no one was able to help me. So I had to figure it out myself. Yeah. Like this internship is literally in your situation, kind of the equivalent of a master's degree in this type of investigation.
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah. Up to even like animal abuse. like It was crazy. It's wild that you did that. And i I cannot tell you how awesome that is. You do this successfully. You graduated in November 2022 from this internship. You also, as you're going, are digging into the other suspects. Yeah.
00:59:25
Speaker
yeah And one of them who is like kind of the prime suspect in all of this in some ways, you're figuring out how to get like public records back on them.
00:59:38
Speaker
Yep. And I noticed that the assistant city attorney of Dallas kept the, I guess they were the ones that were saying, don't release these records to her. Don't release these records to her.
00:59:49
Speaker
And I eventually called her, even though the phone number on her signature was not correct. She did not have it correct on the signature of her emails. It was an in-service phone number. Eventually, I got a hold of her and told her it was incorrect. And she said, yeah, we'll fix that. i don't know if she ever did. But anyway, um we were speaking on the phone, and she confirmed to me that this was still an open case.
01:00:16
Speaker
so that's ah So to be clear, on the one hand, we're talking about like the district attorney's office. But at this point, we're actually talking about the attorneys for the city of Dallas. Yeah. So they're the ones that would, in any instance of like a lawsuit or something, represent the city. Right.
01:00:35
Speaker
Yes. You kind of go on a media binge after this. and yeah um You do still stop off and like do a little fighting with the Attorney General's office and the City Attorney's office, but you reach out the project. They did overrule her. They did tell her, you know, we're releasing it anyway. like You don't have the authority to say no in this instance because you didn't even respond in the timely manner that's required in you know our process. so When you did that, and you is that the report that had the my word murder on it?
01:01:12
Speaker
So that takes you, like, basically, you end up getting that in January 2023. Yeah, so I was like, you know, Dallas 25, Katrina 1, but we're getting somewhere.
01:01:23
Speaker
i mean, you are. You reach out to Sarah Mitchell at Project Cold Case. and this is February 2023. She calls the Dallas Police Department and she's trying to verify some of the case information.
01:01:38
Speaker
But the Dallas Police Department basically states, there's nothing here. we have no record of this. We don't even know if we don't We've never heard that name. Yeah. But they don't freak out because you have so much documented at this point. Exactly. Exactly. i do. And i have and she I had the city attorney email me with the confirmation in the email, wrote out, because I told her I wanted you know it written in town, stating that the case is still open.
01:02:11
Speaker
And she did. So they're able to put it in their database either way because they're big on confirmation. Right. They said no at first, but then once I was able to pretty much prove otherwise, um they just went ahead and and took it based on what I gave them.
01:02:28
Speaker
And I'm so glad they did that because like, like that's an important moment for people that are working with projects like that or with the different forms of media that are out there where they figure out that like the police do sometimes get it wrong. Sometimes they're just not paying attention and sometimes they just lie.
01:02:46
Speaker
And really, it's so stupid because you could just, you know, just be like, oops, sorry. Let's move on and get it done. Like, why fight someone on it? You know, all the work is done for you pretty much.
01:03:01
Speaker
Right. And you're continuing to do that work even now. Right. At this point, is this when you go in Prime Door? Like they record an episode.
01:03:12
Speaker
uha And then you're also talking to seasons of justice. This is like May, 2023. Right. Yeah. They weren't as season of justice was kind of new at that point as well. And, um, they're like a nonprofit that was made out of a crime junkie with their owners and everything and and everything. And we start communicating and things kind of go a little, start moving a little bit after that.
01:03:39
Speaker
Right. we'll We'll leave that out of it for the moment. Just because I know how slow things are there, i don't want to jinx anything. yeah And you don't have resolution there yet, right?
01:03:51
Speaker
On which part? On anything going on at Seasons of Justice. Well, i don't I didn't end up needing them, really. gotcha. The only thing that they might help with at this point would be like the billboard stuff, maybe. gotcha.
01:04:09
Speaker
Early June 2023, you are informed that Katrina's case is getting a detective, like a new detective within their special investigations unit, right? Mm-hmm.
01:04:24
Speaker
that feels like ah pretty big hurdle to overcome, don't think? Yeah, and also, you know, having to re-go through every little thing.
01:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's a little draining to re-explain it every single time to someone new because they don't have any knowledge or firsthand you know experience with the case, of course. And so just, you know, the more times it changes hands, the more...
01:04:50
Speaker
It gets diluted basically in the information, but continue. Well, he calls you and basically informs you that there is some physical evidence and it has now made its way to the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Science for testing.
01:05:09
Speaker
Right. Well, kind of. And between there, I didn't actually put it on the timeline because it was so much at once. And I was trying to keep it all together and keep track of it and keep it moving. But at that point, we had gotten word back from me and the DA's office, I mean, that we're working together. we got word back that they had found both physical and um biological evidence when they did the search warrant.
01:05:33
Speaker
And that it was indeed available and hopefully it was preserved enough to be tested. i'm I'm really impressed, honestly. And this is where I give Dallas credit. Like they actually knew in the future that DNA capabilities might be more advanced enough to be able to test this kind of stuff in more detail or depth. And they actually did take it just in case, which I found very surprising.
01:06:00
Speaker
So we we send evidence out and that's kind of how your summer of 2023 kicks off. And then you go on a pretty serious information quest, which I think we need to pick up with in the next episode.
01:06:18
Speaker
Okay. Yep. That works. Okay.
01:06:33
Speaker
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Speaker
It helps us get noticed in the crowd. This is True Crime XS.
01:06:58
Speaker
I break things like guitars.
01:07:07
Speaker
No scars We're in trouble We took it too far
01:07:17
Speaker
want to go, but it's cause I'll disappoint ya. It's all I've ever dreamed of, something I cannot let go of.
01:07:28
Speaker
I hate the competition. This culture's like a Jimin. I lost the motivation to get fit in your expectations.
01:07:39
Speaker
True Crime Access is brought to you by John and Meg. It's written, produced, edited, and posted by John and Meg. You can always support True Crime Access through Patreon.com, or if you have a story you'd like them to cover, you can reach them at TrueCrimeAccess.com.
01:07:57
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.