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Season Seven: Rewind: The Murder of Catherine "Catrina" Mowrey Part II
198 Plays16 days ago
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
Interview with Katrina about her Aunt's Case
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:01:01
Speaker
But this is going to be part two of our interview with Katrina. And where we left off there was her aunt's case. like She's the namesake of someone who was written off as a cocaine overdose.
00:01:18
Speaker
But she was found in the trunk of a car. And, you know, it's an old case. This case goes back to 1985 to Dallas, Texas. what What did you think of sort of the the story we've covered so far? I'm familiar with the case, and it's really sad.
00:01:38
Speaker
And sort of speaking with Katrina, her the niece of the victim, it really brought a lot of things to light, and it's ah's it's a little different than what I'm used to.
00:01:48
Speaker
Katrina that we're speaking with, who is the niece of the victim of... the crime, she didn't actually know her her aunt. She was deeply affected through how it affected her mother, right? Who was the victim's sister.
00:02:07
Speaker
i The case to me is, it's you've got a young woman who, she basically was going out of town, and she had borrowed her boyfriend's car, and then the car was found...
00:02:24
Speaker
sitting in an alleyway and someone had noticed it and they somehow the police got involved. I know there's an official account and then there's some like ambiguity between what really happened and what was stated to have happened.
00:02:38
Speaker
But ultimately they check the trunk of the car and Katrina is in the trunk of the car.
Discrepancies in the Case Investigation
00:02:45
Speaker
Her death is basically chalked up to a suicide or an overdose.
00:02:53
Speaker
And, you know, we find out that her toxicology report after her autopsy indicated that she wasn't, ah she didn't have any drugs in her system, right? And so she didn't overdose. I don't really see how that's possible if the tox is clean.
00:03:10
Speaker
And then you don't commit suicide and put yourself in the trunk of a car. You know, you and I have come across these cases over the years where,
00:03:21
Speaker
whether it's a missing person that's never been found or it's a questionable ah discovery of human remains, we kind of look at it and we go, all right, well, something accidental could have happened here. And the accident, you know, whoever witnessed it or was a part of it, they sort of panic. and this case It's really difficult for me to see it that way. i mean She had no drugs in her system, so she if she didn't overdose, i and yeah I guess there are other types of accidents that could happen. Because when we talk about stuff like that, I always imagine people partying in their head while they're high and somebody overdosing, right? we've talked about that at length on here.
00:04:10
Speaker
But I think maybe there could be other ways that people could accidentally die while hanging out and people not wanting to have authorities involved for various reasons. But I think there's evidence of that kind of thing on the body when that happens. Like if somebody falls down the stairs, they're going to be pretty banged up, right? That kind of thing. Yeah.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah, or if you know if there's an accidental gun discharge, there's going to be a bullet wound. like There's all sorts of things that you can get into. and i'm not going to speculate too far into how high-risk lifestyle the ant had in this case, but I i do want to –
00:04:51
Speaker
sort of put on the other part of the interview
Efforts to Reopen the Case
00:04:54
Speaker
here. And at the the end of the show at the tail, there is a call to action for this and a call to action for for people who don't know. It's when we ask you to do something.
00:05:02
Speaker
There's a, there's a petition involved here that she's had running for some time where she's trying to get more information about this case. And I i think I mentioned that when you and I were talking that this reminds me of ah Janet Holly down in Texas, right?
00:05:18
Speaker
Janet Hawley was the sister of Sandy Dial. And essentially, Janet had to do a lot of the investigation into Sandy's murder on her own.
00:05:29
Speaker
And because of how this has unfolded for Katrina with the the loss of her mom... ah she is the one who sort of ends up in the position ah of trying to put all of this together. And she's hoping that this petition will give the attention of the right people in Dallas so that they will take it a little more seriously um in terms of ah getting what paperwork is available together and sort of treating this like it deserves a homicide investigation, which I'm in complete agreement with her. And I think you are as well.
00:06:06
Speaker
I agree. i dear um i agree that ah this never should have been dropped like it was, regardless of what the reasoning was. it Unless I'm missing some pretty substantial pieces of information, which I mean, I guess is possible, but I don't think that's the case. Unless I'm missing some pretty substantial pieces of information, ah they just let it slip through the cracks, in my opinion.
Family Impact and Perspectives
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah, i so this is one of the first times I can confidently say that either through incompetence or malfeasance, somehow this case was not investigated properly um at the time.
00:06:42
Speaker
And i think it gets a really good perspective, even though there's some distance between the two Katrinas, Katrina we're interviewing and Katrina the victim. I do think this is a really good perspective, and it's sort of a neutral perspective in some ways, of how...
00:06:59
Speaker
So crime affects not only the victims who, in this case, you know, she lost her life, but also affects the families sort of through the years, generationally.
00:07:11
Speaker
There is ah an interesting affect to how that tragedy sort of carries forward. So let's ah let's listen to the rest of this interview now, um and then we'll be back at the end of the show to talk about some other stuff.
00:07:28
Speaker
Where we left off in what's either the last segment or the last episode is pointing out that this clearly toxicology wise is not a cocaine overdose that your aunt has died of in 1985.
00:07:43
Speaker
Correct. So where did the police investigation go from there?
00:07:51
Speaker
Good question. Good question. I'm going to guess nowhere i think you're correct which is absolutely unacceptable and I I I want to understand completely um at this point in time your grandmother would have been in Kansas and uh your aunt would have died in uh Dallas County Texas is that correct ah yeah Dallas County and Cynthia yeah Okay, so, so that you know, there's some distance there as far as her being able to, you know, just walk into the police station and talk to them about it, right? um Because she got one...
00:08:32
Speaker
and the article in the newspaper it said that when they had spoke with my grandmother she had stated that she didn't know what my aunt was doing since she left Kansas, which I think was um misleading. i think that they told her her daughter died of a goat gain overdose. And it was more like a, well, I guess I don't know what my daughter's been doing since she left Kansas type of reaction. Because I know my grandma and I know how she says things in words. things and
00:09:04
Speaker
that is not something she would have disclosed that way. And i think that the reporter writing it, whoever that was, just worded it to their, you know,
00:09:17
Speaker
Right, it was their their so their understanding of the narrative. i Yeah, I completely understand.
Investigation Incompetence and Frustrations
00:09:24
Speaker
if so if you've got it So the police are saying we have a cocaine overdose, you know, completely disregarding how she was found. Because at the very least, somebody had to have put her there. i Yeah, like, that's illegal regardless.
00:09:41
Speaker
Not that it matters whether she died of a cocaine overdose or not. it's still illegal to put a body in a trunk. Right. And I think that, um you know, that is ah sort of my thinking, even, and your aunt's toxicology report came back that she did not overdose from cocaine. And in my mind that I mean, it is it is important to know that, but even if she did, there's still a crime happening here. amen Exactly. And it is outrageous to me that it's not being treated that way. And I feel like regardless of who you are, And regardless of whether you have somebody from like, you know, anybody advocating and kind of speaking out to, you know, have your case investigated and solved, there's stuff in this situation that should have led investigators on their own to think we need to look into this further.
00:10:36
Speaker
And, you know, it it doesn't even come out until you find out that, you know, her toxicology report didn't reflect any sort of overdose. Well, correct normal, ah young, vital, healthy women don't just die. Exactly. And she had, it was noted, she had no like health issues, no health concerns, no type of disease or cancer or anything like that that would have caused her death either.
00:11:02
Speaker
I feel like law enforcement coming ah from the perspective that like they can sort of write this off, which is what it sounds like has happened, you know into the inevitable, because you you're the reason if something's going to happen, that it's going to happen. It's not like anybody's going back and doing this. because they're law enforcement and that's what they should be doing. And to me, that's absolutely ridiculous. They should be very, very concerned that even though it has been almost 40 years, that in 1985, this young lady, this young woman ended up in the trunk of a vehicle.
00:11:39
Speaker
Well, she yeah she actually lived across town as well. So she was legally blind without glasses or contacts. nightstand like across Dallas, Texas. So she could not have driven herself there anyway.
00:11:55
Speaker
So would that just adds even more to the fact that the explanation doesn't meet the situation. Exactly. So many like wrong turns here. It's unbelievable.
00:12:08
Speaker
So it's the idea. Okay. So she's in the trunk of a car. She's wrapped in a bed sheet based on the media report and the autopsy report. Mm-hmm. The autopsy report had some even more interesting stuff in it from what you shared with me that doesn't make it into the media.
00:12:32
Speaker
You want to talk about that?
00:12:36
Speaker
ah Sure. i haven't actually really disclosed that anywhere yet. And for example, like the petition I started was over a year ago now. And so I didn't have a lot of the information when I started the petition that I have now, which also might be why you've seen articles or something that might have more information than others. Because as it's been found out or learned or discovered,
00:13:01
Speaker
you know, it's changed even more type of thing. But ah ah yeah, she, when she was found in the trunk of the car, nude, naked and wrapped up in a white bed sheet, she had a belt around her neck.
00:13:20
Speaker
You're kidding me. So, yeah, and I didn't find that out until just a few months ago with that. And Sarah, that just, I mean, that's just even more obvious that she didn't overdose on cocaine. I mean, there's... so i I don't think it was her cause of death, though, either, which is even more confusing. i mean, it just leaves you with so many more questions than answers.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, on top of that, it indicates that she doesn't necessarily have the type of injuries to the soft tissues and cartilage around her neck that would go with having a belt around her neck.
00:14:00
Speaker
Exactly. And it goes from a belt to a cloth at the end. It's really like... And they refer to it at the very end as a cloth instead of a belt after they stated it was a belt at the beginning of the report.
00:14:16
Speaker
So it's like it kind of got like they kind of started going backwards a little bit at the end. And she does have a little bit of alcohol in her system, but that's really all they reference. And that could be from the decomp.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, and it could also it's also less than the legal limit or if not. Definitely the legal limit of that time. Yeah. And see, to me, like none of that, I mean, it matters. I don't want anybody get the wrong impression, but like none of it really matters. I mean, even if she was coked out and drunk, like this still is not adding up and it's outrageous to me. and Now I, so I, uh, we may cut this part out, but, um, I'd like to know, you just want attention brought to this in hopes of getting somewhere with it. Right.
00:15:05
Speaker
I mean, at this point, I don't even, I just never thought I'd have to literally like, I mean, I guess growing up, you're always like, yeah, the police are good people. They do the right thing. They always help you when you're in, when you're in distress or need help, except they they don't, I guess. I've never had this problem before.
00:15:27
Speaker
Like I've never had to ask the police to help me like I have now. And then just being completely disregarded, i guess. And i I feel like it's probably um a matter of, I guess, maybe finding the right person to help.
Potential Suspects and Relationships
00:15:44
Speaker
and That's what I'm thinking. And I have no idea who that might be, but there's gotta be somebody who now is there a suspect
00:15:55
Speaker
um According to Dallas PD, I'm not completely sure. I don't think so. But according to my mother, yes. So again, i mean, these are just questions I have as well, and I can't get them answered for some reason. Yeah. So let's talk about that for a second without naming any people. um Right. So I think...
00:16:18
Speaker
Meg is asking where we typically go with this. And I agree with her some extent, but if they thought of it as an overdose in the trunk, then it's less a suspect and more a person with more knowledge of what's going on that they should have been looking for.
00:16:35
Speaker
and at the time she did have a, a, a boyfriend. um Yeah. He, and it was his car, right? Yeah. Yeah. But he does not, like, he doesn't seem to be the focus of any type of investigation because of how they go from cocaine overdose to undetermined.
00:17:03
Speaker
And my understanding was that he was aware that she had the car and that she was going to go on a trip. And that's why he wasn't necessarily concerned. Yeah, she was coming to Kansas to visit my mom the next morning, and the night she was killed or whatever. and so the boyfriend didn't necessarily find it odd that she was missing and the car was missing.
00:17:25
Speaker
Correct. Cause she, he figured she was in Kansas with it and they didn't have cell phones or anything, obviously back then. So not like they called and text or checked in or whatever at that point. So, so he wouldn't necessarily be my like first thought, um but it would go to whomever she was last with.
00:17:45
Speaker
and But he would still know something, even if it's like the crowd of people running around with or just any. I mean, there's he knows something, whether it's answers that would solve it or not. He still knows something.
00:18:00
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. So one of the things that shocked me about this case when I first started talking to you is I thought it would be very easy to go. all right. There's a body in the trunk of a car.
00:18:13
Speaker
in texas in 1985 i can find that pretty easily turns out there were dozens of cases in texas in 1985 where bodies were found in the trunk of cars including ah at the airport including multiple men in the trunk of the same car 1984 and 1985 um What's interesting, though, is when you start digging into this case, there was a ah ah lot of information about those other trunk bodies and the grand jury indictments and the investigations by multiple agencies.
00:18:55
Speaker
For some reason, this one case just goes completely under the radar, right?
Family Dynamics and Arguments
00:19:04
Speaker
Did you ever get the sense, and and then I want to talk about something that was going on between your mom and her. Did you ever get the sense that maybe people thought Katrina was up to no good and that's a reason to discount her?
00:19:19
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Definitely. I mean, and she might've been regardless, but she's and' still a human and and still needs, you know, justice regardless. But I mean, yeah, I mean, she's 24 year old, you know, childless free you to an extent, like, you know, individual just trying to figure out her life at 24 years old.
00:19:41
Speaker
Like, you know, a lot of 24 year olds are probably making bad decisions. Yeah. And good ones, I don't know. But I mean, that's just kind of how life goes. So what was your mom's relationship like with her sisters in 1985?
00:19:58
Speaker
They were closer than ever. They've always been very close. They remained close. My mom went to Dallas all the time. my my aunts were back in Kansas all the time. They saw each other all the time. They talked all the time.
00:20:14
Speaker
At least my mom and my Aunt Katrina did. Joanne was a little bit more, I think, aloof and distanced, person like, herself personally a little bit.
00:20:25
Speaker
She was more, I guess, than of the wild card a little bit um But my mom and her older so the oldest one, Katrina, were, you know, that was her idol quote from her, not me.
00:20:39
Speaker
I don't think we addressed this here, but I saw it in one of the articles, maybe over at the Unsolved website that I had pulled up on this. It talked a little bit about sort of the day or two prior where ah there was an argument between your mom and Katrina.
00:21:03
Speaker
And i essentially, there was a hang up phone call. I don't even know that kids really understand what it is to be hung up on today.
00:21:14
Speaker
do i know it's crazy Do you remember the, like the big heavy phones and like relatives houses in your house? Oh yes. And even the flip phones, you get mad at someone and just snap that thing shut. Like screw you all angrily. No, my mom and her got into an argument the last time they spoke and my mom hung up on her which is pretty common with sisters.
00:21:39
Speaker
And then that was the last time she ever spoke with her and then never saw her again. And then a week later found out she had been killed or died or whatever they called it then.
00:21:50
Speaker
how much do you think that last interaction between but two of them affected your mom going forward from them? I don't think it is even a question. I know it affected her more than anyone could probably imagine.
00:22:06
Speaker
Again, she was pretty sensitive and really wore her heart on her sleeve. And that pretty much is probably have been her biggest life regret for her entire life.
00:22:18
Speaker
Do you know, and this might be personal, but what was the fight about? I'm not even really sure. honest with you. So probably nothing of relevance to what ended up happening.
00:22:34
Speaker
No, it pretty common. They'd fight sometimes. I mean, ah yeah my mom just figured she'd see her when she got here or whatever. Sure. Yeah. Again, my mom, and my mom liked to argue quite a bit, to be fair. and I know we've addressed that, but she was a a feisty one.
Media and Police Account Inconsistencies
00:22:56
Speaker
So referencing back to the body discovery and also I think stories of the unsolved, ah you talk to those guys at some point and they put out a nice article that I'll include in the show notes for folks who just want to read this in a more linear fashion.
00:23:11
Speaker
They pull from one of the newspaper articles I have here and it like gives the briefest blurb about this, about your aunt. um It says that on June 25th, 1985, the manager of the the Casa Three Apartments um and the address here ah it's over. It looks like 200 South Marsalis Avenue, although i would say it's definitely i don't think that building is there anymore.
00:23:39
Speaker
um if that's the case, someone was walking by an alley. They noticed a strong odor and it's coming out of this 1978 Ford LTD that's parked nearby. She contacts the Southwest. Actually, don't, I don't think it was actually somebody walking by. I'm pretty sure the story that I was always told anyway, is that she, it was somebody that actually lived in the apartments. That was also like the office manager of the apartment complex.
00:24:10
Speaker
I've seen it reported that way as well. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how I had always been told the story. And so I'm not positive on that, but I'm pretty sure that's how that went.
00:24:22
Speaker
And so that, and that's why she had noticed it there that Saturday before and finally ended up calling the police or whatever. and don't think it was like a walk by type of thing though.
00:24:35
Speaker
Like some, I think might lead to believe Okay. Well, that's why I was asking you about it because I've seen it reported. like and as the petitions you know gathered steam, other people grab articles and put things up, I wanted to i wanted to sort of ask you about it from your recollection.
00:24:54
Speaker
i did notice that there was a sentence in here I wanted to ask about. It says that police initially tried to put Katrina's death down as a suicide. Mm-hmm. And later is deemed to be an unexplained death. So is the idea that she got in the trunk of her boyfriend's car and strangled herself? I know where you're going with this. I know. And then wrapped herself in bed sheet like a burrito and then somehow managed to lock herself in the trunk.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm picturing. Totally makes sense. And then just sat there until she died or something. That's definitely like a way to torture yourself if you really want to go out in the worst way possible. Because I'm pretty sure June 1985, Dallas in the trunk of a car, you could only get hotter than that if you were like somewhere in South America. Exactly.
00:25:43
Speaker
Or the surface of the sun. Yeah. Well, so clearly that, I mean, i that didn't happen. and um i And I'm going to say it's got to be incompetence because I don't even know that you could get there with malfeasance. I mean, it's just not logical. It's not a logical conclusion either way, even when they switch to undetermined.
00:26:07
Speaker
And it's still not logical whether you're in law enforcement or if you're just regular old Joe off the street. Like, nobody would come to that conclusion whether they were an expert on the matter or not.
00:26:21
Speaker
Right. it It's just not something that's going to happen. And so, ah you know, that's really where everything starts failing. And that's right after it happens. This brings us to the point where there is like a couple of mentions online of an investigation. i will say that that investigation to me looks like a single incident report and an autopsy report. Does that sound right to you?
00:26:44
Speaker
And even the the investigation that was done is very minimal. Yeah. To put it like strongly even. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And we we ran into this one thing, but I'm still looking for this one piece of information. But I want to clarify that that we included in in this part of the story i want to clarify with you.
00:27:08
Speaker
So there's the boyfriend who has this Ford LTD that she's found in the trunk of. And then there's someone they reference who they call him Wee.
00:27:24
Speaker
And they indicate that your aunt and Pee Wee were close friends. And it's alleged that Pee Wee had a crush on your aunt and some of the stories that people are putting out there now.
00:27:36
Speaker
So your mom, without using any real names, did she know the identity of the boyfriend? um And we're going off of the fact that these are two different people because some people have assumed that they were the same, but these technically, as far as I know anyway, are two different people, ah the boyfriend and Pee Wee. And so um the identity of the boyfriend in particular, she did not know exactly who that was.
00:28:11
Speaker
But if she was found in his car, the police should know who it was. Well, they should know. but They should, but they won't answer. oh really? Yeah, they won they won't answer the phone or answer the question or anything for that matter. i can't.
00:28:31
Speaker
like It's a pretty simple question to ask, and you'd think a simple answer to get ah an answer to, but like it's apparently not. Our thing was when we first started talking, who is the boyfriend and like, can we confirm his identity?
Identity Confusions and Suspicions
00:28:45
Speaker
And then who is Pee Wee? Is he different than the boyfriend? Which ah I stand on the fact that I think he's different. Otherwise, i don't think he would be a question. If he's also the boyfriend and they have the plates on the car, all those things, there's no reason for Pee Wee to be a question mark. So he's got to be a different person.
00:29:03
Speaker
It is a different person. Yeah, for sure. um And we do have like some suspicion of who maybe Pee Wee could be. Yeah, my mom knew who Pee Wee's, what Pee Wee's real name is.
00:29:17
Speaker
and And that's someone that you've done, I'll call it a deep dive on his background.
00:29:26
Speaker
Do you, have you ever talked to him? No. Is he alive? As far as I know, yes. I also believe that he's alive. I can't prove that 100%, I'm... Yeah, I don't want to like say for sure or not, but i'm pretty i'm I mean, from what I've found, i'm like 95% sure he's still alive, unless he just recently died or something.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah. well So we're going to end up coming back to Katrina as we, as we go along here, but I want I want to sort of move around in time. It's 1985 when this happens to her, you're not even on the planet yet.
00:30:05
Speaker
exactly And, and as you described, you know, in the first episode covering this a couple years after this, your, your parents ended up getting married and you were born 1991.
00:30:16
Speaker
ninety ninety one You are the namesake for Katrina. Correct. So your mom still has several siblings at the time that you were born. Mm-hmm.
00:30:29
Speaker
And my Joanne, which I met, and then her brothers. Yeah. So in is is this also in dallas yes Okay, so in Dallas, Texas, 1993, you're a couple years old.
Second Family Tragedy with Aunt Joanne
00:30:48
Speaker
There is another bizarre thing that happens. And for it's now happening to you, whereas Katrina happens to your mom and her family and to Katrina, obviously.
00:31:01
Speaker
um But now you're here. You're in your your mom's custody and care. Were your parents divorced at at that time or was a little later? No, no, no. This is, this is at this point, my mom and daughter are happily married or whatever. And then my aunt Joanne is murdered. And then that at that time is when things start really shifting in the family dynamic,
00:31:25
Speaker
and my mom is back and forth between Dallas and Kansas so much for the trial and the prosecution of this case. And I'm only two, and but i i usually stay in Kansas with my dad at this point. And in my paternal grandmother helps my dad take care of me while my mom is back and forth so much.
00:31:46
Speaker
And of course, she's got like a full-time job and a career and everything as well. so She is caught up in the middle of this trial and this prosecution as well and then has a newborn or you know a couple of year old baby and it's just chaos at that point. yet So what happened to your Aunt Joanne? She had her throat slit with a broken beer bottle in a motel room. And it was it by someone she knew or was it also ah was it a stranger?
00:32:19
Speaker
I mean, i don't think they knew each other very well. I think it, my mom had always referred to it, you know, as like a date rape type of situation. However, um i' not really sure which of them was actually like date raping the other, so to speak.
00:32:36
Speaker
um That killing was a little bit of a different, you know, basis than my other aunt. So that one's a little hard to um and on in those terms but um it was never like an investigation of who did it. i mean, they always knew who did it. The motel room was registered and, you know, to the name of the person and that did it. It was never, a I didn't do that situation. it was, I mean, like it was just never in question ever. We're, this is hard to ask because you were so small, but like,
00:33:12
Speaker
Do you remember the chaos? do you remember like feeling i'm always at grandma's house or I'm always with my dad during that time? No. I mean, i I was a pretty actually well-adjusted child for both my parents, actually. And and they remained very close friends my entire life. actually get along almost too well for being divorced like they were. Yeah.
00:33:38
Speaker
um They really prioritized me, I think, in my well-being in terms of their own relationship. So, I mean, even when my son was just born in 2018, my mommy and my dad were staying in my house under my roof with me when I had my son. So, together. as That's really good. work Yeah.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, i they they've always, you know, put me in front of their relationship. differences, I guess you could say. My mom never, you know, she never failed to call and give my dad a good, uh, talk into any time called her upset about something.
00:34:17
Speaker
So, I mean, um, but no, yeah, no, it's not like that at all. I remember the falling out between my mom and dad, kind of, not necessarily like specific events, but like the, the vibes and, you know, the feelings and stuff like I remember bits and pieces like of when they split up and how things went downhill. And um i mean, I've also, of course, heard stories and stuff, but my mom was very, very
Mother's Emotional Struggle
00:34:48
Speaker
upset. Of course, at this point, she was very um distraught and very reckless, pretty much a downward spiral of self-destruction at this point.
00:34:58
Speaker
And she was also very upset by the rest of her family's reaction to her only other sister being brutally murdered or whatever. um She was the only family member who showed up or went to any of the prosecution or court proceedings or trial of anything that happened in Joanne's killing ever.
00:35:22
Speaker
Why was that? in your opinion In your opinion, why was she the only one?
00:35:31
Speaker
I honestly don't know. beat But I mean, it's still kind of seems that way to this day with other family members. But so with your aunt Joanne, her murder, it was, it was not a mystery. It was um a situation that unfolded. And it sounds like to have your throat slit with a beer bottle, it's probably out of some sort of anger or something like that happening. um,
00:35:59
Speaker
and it So it's a completely different situation ah than with your Aunt Katrina, but your mom has now lost... uh to i assume that they were probably you know frenemies but also like best friends because they are so close in age and sisters right i mean yeah and so she's lost a big chunk of her world and and i guess a huge chunk of her world for sure and and she's probably feeling like really powerless um at that point especially if she's not getting support from the family um
00:36:35
Speaker
the other family members and maybe they just couldn't handle it. I have no idea, but it seems like she would be like really alone. And that would be a really hard thing to go through like that. Cause she's traveling back and forth, leaving her small child, us trying to watch justice unfold for one of her sisters.
Judgment and Indifference Based on Lifestyle
00:36:55
Speaker
And you know, that it's got a way on her mind that,
00:36:59
Speaker
she lost her other sister and the investigation is you know not happening or whatever her frame of mind was at that time so i imagine all that was really hard yes yeah for sure and also like i know that um in joanne's case i'm it is known to be i think viewed more as a uh Maybe she kind of had it coming. or you know Maybe she should have been more careful after what happened to her first sister type of, I think, view is what people were kind of seeing it as. That's really unfortunate. Is that in her circle or in the family circle? Is that like from Texas or Kansas?
00:37:43
Speaker
From, yeah, the whole family's in Kansas, from the Kansas circle. So it's family members kind of thinking that. Okay. i just And I, and I can sort of see that, but I also have a very strong sort of opinion that a victim is a victim is a victim. Right. And exactly and so I feel like that, that was, that would have been a really hard thing for your mom to have to say, you know, well, she's still a victim and, you know,
00:38:14
Speaker
i As far as having it coming, I really, i you know, that it's unfortunate that it would be seen that way. There's no excuse for that, truly. i mean, there's probably some things she could have done differently to prevent it, sure. But nobody knows that's going to happen or sees that coming. Well, sure. And so that case went through the court system and was, did the person who did it, were they sentenced and everything? Yes.
00:38:43
Speaker
Okay, so all of that was adjudicated. And so at least there was a little bit of, I mean, I don't know what happened. But I, you know, as, as far as justice goes, there was a case that occurred.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah, and he he did serve, like 20 years or more. And he has since recently been paroled and released. Have you met him?
00:39:09
Speaker
for For the sake of the law, no. Because of how complicated things can be when someone has been convicted therefore if they're on parole, probation, etc.
00:39:20
Speaker
Exactly. They're not allowed to have any interaction with victims' families. But do you have an impression of the person who killed Joanne? Yes.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yes. And have you been, I assume, knowing how you come across, you're pretty curious. um What is your impression of him as a person now?
00:39:46
Speaker
i mean, I don't really have any hard feelings. I kind of, when I had initially learned that he had been released, I was... i wanted to be like you know, that person that was pissed off, like, hey, you, why did you do this, asshole?
00:40:05
Speaker
Kind of the thing, but it just, it didn't, it wasn't like that. There was no defensive stance. There was never an argument about it. It was a, this person did this And they admitted to it and took responsibility for it. And I guess in the eyes of the law, they did they did the crime and then they did the time and they paid their dues to society. And now they are able to move on with their life, I guess, basically.
Niece's Pursuit of Unresolved Justice
00:40:37
Speaker
do you feel like your family has been able to do the same thing?
00:40:43
Speaker
Well, most of them are dead now. My grandparents have since passed away, which were a huge part of this. And then my mom, of course, Um, the only people left to really are her brothers and they don't have any interest at all in any part of any of this, unfortunately.
00:41:04
Speaker
Do you think, I, I kind of assume that there's not thought to be a connection between your two aunts deaths. mean, it's a good way to think of it. I've thought of it that way, but no, I don't, I don't believe there is.
00:41:18
Speaker
Okay. What is like the best case scenario with your aunt Katrina's death right now? Like, what is the thing i know Meg talked about different people, but like, what is the thing that you need the most in order to proceed in your own investigation? Is it the name of suspects? Like, what is like your next step?
00:41:42
Speaker
Well, um things have shifted a little bit since I had initially started this little quest, I guess. um But at this point, i feel like it would probably, you know, be a win if I could actually get some type of acknowledgement or accountability.
00:42:03
Speaker
i mean, ideally, an apology, you know, would be nice to hear. Not that it would really fix it at this point anyway, but um anything any type of information or communication I feel like, you know, when I ask about it ever, i so i get the i get the feeling like, it's like, a well, why do you want to know?
00:42:27
Speaker
What's it to you? why do you care? Like, and this is an ongoing investigation. We can't give you anything, except that it's not an ongoing investigation. it never was, really.
00:42:41
Speaker
So, like, it's just kind of stuck in this gray area where there's no yeses and there's no noes, but there's also nothing in between. you feel like the people you're talking to are taking this matter seriously?
00:42:56
Speaker
but Seriously? I mean, I guess they it's kind of just a serious matter in general, but I feel like maybe they... Or kind of trying to do to me what they did to my mom. But I guess seeing it done to my mom, once again, has kind of made me pretty much like a pushbacker.
00:43:18
Speaker
Like, nope, seen you do this before. It is ain't happening here Kind of a thing, you know? And I've come to the conclusion that really, like, if they don't give me answers, to be completely honest with you, I can find them myself. And I have so far.
00:43:32
Speaker
um i haven't really got any of my information from the police at all that I've found to this point. So I really am not sure if they could really do much at this point anyway, except take responsibility of their negligence.
00:43:47
Speaker
And we've um we've talked about in a lot of cases, especially cases that are you know just shy of 40 years old, when things are being held back and information is being... um you know, kept away for whatever reason, it's really kind of pointless at that point because so much time has passed. I mean, i just feel like sometimes when the older cases are, you know, being said to, you can't have the information because we're not investigating it.
00:44:16
Speaker
I mean, because we are investigating it, but you know that they're not investigating it. can be really discouraging and i i don't really see the point of law enforcement doing that. It's very discouraging that you're not able to get those answers and sometimes they feel like they're basically saying, well, I'd love to give you that information except there's not any and there's no way for us to get it at this point.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, i i it's frustrating for sure, but I have i have like, you know spoken with like the DA and stuff like, and literally said, you know, i am not working against you. i am trying to work with you. i am trying to give and get information to help this case be solved. I'm literally like doing the hard part for you and trying to just hand this over to you it.
00:45:14
Speaker
do it Like, you know, there are obviously some things that I can't do that they can or have the power to. um and so, yeah, it's frustrating because I'm not really sure why they would see me like, as I guess, working against them as opposed to with them, but they will not work with me whatsoever.
00:45:40
Speaker
I think that it has to be that they're afraid that you're going to like realize what's not there, which would be, you know, what should be there, but it's not necessarily the people you're talking with now.
Technological Advances and Unused Evidence
00:45:51
Speaker
It's not their fault. It's the whole system. It's the people that were not doing what they should have been doing, you know, 35 years ago. Yeah. However, my I agree with that to an extent, but also like,
00:46:06
Speaker
For example, you know, I think that because it was so negligent in the beginning, you would think now with and how advanced like technology and even DNA and stuff has gotten, it's it'd be so much easier to just do it now.
00:46:27
Speaker
You know, like think so. Yeah. Yeah. And I know a fact, and it's been confirmed, that they do still have evidence for this case.
00:46:39
Speaker
And so why they won't communicate or answer me when I ask about getting the DNA from it tested is just infuriating and simply beyond me, and I don't understand it Well, they may need some guidance on it, I guess, because, ah and the way, you know, to do that is what you're doing, which would be to get the word out and get some, you know, attention on it. And that way, um you know, in a nice way, sort of encourage them.
00:47:12
Speaker
yeah Exactly. Except like, i don't really know what else to even do because I've i've actually legitimately really tried to work side by side and communicate for like a couple of years now. And that it's just going nowhere. And and so I really...
00:47:30
Speaker
I'm not trying to end up, you know, like my mom or something and like just, you know, have it eat me from the inside out. Like I'm not really one to like, okay, let's wait another year and see what happens. Like i my time is valuable for me personally. And I have children of my own that I don't like.
00:47:50
Speaker
you know, my time being taken from them either. So at this point it is kind of personal for me. for sure. In a lot of ways in regards to that. And I don't, I don't appreciate the way that they've really given me the runaround and wasted my time.
00:48:05
Speaker
Well, it sounds like that, you know you've got, um your, your attitude is really good. um I have no idea what mine would be in this type of situation, but, you know, I want to commend you for that because you're definitely taking the
Case Classification and Fragmentation
00:48:18
Speaker
right approach. And it seems like, you know, we'll, um, I'm,
00:48:23
Speaker
We'll see. I'm going to think about this now that I've spoken with you and John will as well. And we'll see what we can help do to besides getting the story out, like maybe who else we could contact about it and who knows if it'll get anywhere, but you are absolutely in the right. Your aunt Katrina deserves justice, just like everybody else that has had something terrible happen to them. And i really hate it that you're having to go through this. It it was outrageous when I initially saw um your petition that you had put out and the other coverage that it's gotten. It's unnecessary and it's, it really is just terrible. Yeah, it's, it's, it's frustrating, but I'm trying to remain, um,
00:49:11
Speaker
you know, positive, I guess. And diligent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i'm also very like direct, I guess. And it might come off as a little confrontational sometimes to some people, but I mean, I'm not really trying to beat around the bush either. And I know that that's pretty much all I've been or experienced this far. And so I'm just like trying to get somewhere, anywhere at this point.
00:49:39
Speaker
Well, I always, I find it fascinating that like, there's a lot of ah forensic genealogists out there right now. And a lot of like cold case folks, when it comes to missing people and unidentified people, there's like the NA Doe project.
00:49:53
Speaker
Plus you have the other side of that coin, which is like the innocence projects and all of the iterations of that. But there's not as many resources when the cops just sort of decided a thing 37 years ago that they didn't follow up so much on.
00:50:12
Speaker
And I think that part, um that's something it's interesting, but that's a need that could be addressed when it comes to these barely homicides. I mean, and that's not in terms of the case, the case is clearly a homicide, but in terms of paper, they barely allowed it to be the homicide that it was.
00:50:34
Speaker
And that's why it's so difficult to get any help with it is because technically, if anybody does contact the police about it, they will tell them that it is not technically classified as a homicide.
00:50:48
Speaker
Or they'll tell them that it's open and they can't give any information about it because it's an open and ongoing case, which is Meg can tell you that is my particularly with the state of Texas.
00:50:59
Speaker
That is one of my number one peeves on the planet. Mm hmm. Because you get a certain amount of time. And then as far as I'm concerned, I don't really think anything should be secret to begin with. You could have a hold back thing or two, but like holding back entire case files for 20 years, 15 years, 10 years, whatever. That's crazy to me. And I understand like...
00:51:24
Speaker
There are aspects of cases that should really just be lists. They shouldn't give away like people's personal information and like they shouldn't go down these terrible and investigative rabbit holes where they're putting completely irrelevant interviews in there.
00:51:40
Speaker
Although that gets a little dicey, but like things like the boyfriend's identity, Wee's identity, if if the police knew who he was, those things should be provided to you so you can confirm your own investigation at this point and possibly bring them something back that they don't have to put the resources towards.
00:51:59
Speaker
And I know a lot of that is absolutely right because I know over time, as I've learned, a lot of stuff I don't think about initially just because like I've grown up and heard this or that or heard here and there. And if somebody brings up something that like it ignites that memory in my mind, I'll be like, oh, yeah, I do remember my mom saying this person,
00:52:24
Speaker
had done this or that or this person's name or yeah that sparks a memory in my mind of that name or something like that and but I can't do that unless I can get that feedback or like you know bouncing those ideas off of one another i just need the other Right. No. And you know, the way that I described this in a, in a different situation that it doesn't have like the depth and the level that you have ah going on here, your case is so big and sprawling, but also so tiny on paperwork. It's like you have the box cover to a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, but unfortunately
00:53:12
Speaker
10 people have the pieces and you have no idea what the identity of the 10 people with the pieces to your jigsaw puzzle are. You just have 9,000 pieces sitting there that are yours and you have to go find the other thousand from these people to make that picture. It's really weird. Like where's Waldo?
00:53:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:53:37
Speaker
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00:53:49
Speaker
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00:54:02
Speaker
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00:54:11
Speaker
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00:54:21
Speaker
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00:54:32
Speaker
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Credits and Contact Information
00:54:43
Speaker
True Crime Access is brought to you by John and Meg. It's written, produced, edited, and posted by John and Meg. You can always support True Crime Access through Patreon.com, or if you have a story you'd like them to cover, you can reach them at TrueCrimeAccess.com.
00:55:01
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.