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#455 New intern at Saunders
1 Playsin 2 days
Topics:
- Six types of working genius
- New intern at Saunders
- Carbon fiber inlays
- Fishbone diagram
- Memory rail photo gallery
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 455
00:00:00
johngrimsmo
Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining episode 455. My name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:06
John Saunders
And my name is John
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
And this is your weekly manufacturing podcast where two friends, business owners just kind of talk and when nobody's listening. It's this private conversation between ah between two guys.
00:00:18
John Saunders
Yeah. yeah I do like it that way.
00:00:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly.
00:00:24
John Saunders
How are you?
00:00:25
johngrimsmo
I'm doing pretty good. Things are steady. i want to do more, but I'm in a steady mode and sometimes that's okay. um So kind of get get the steady work off my plate and then I can do more and then I can work on growth.
00:00:41
johngrimsmo
Like with Blade Show coming up, I kind of feel like I can't veer too far off course.
00:00:44
John Saunders
Yeah, sure. Sure, sure.
00:00:47
johngrimsmo
That's kind of where I'm at right now. So like, you know, in in my pit of my stomach, I'm like, I want to grow. I want to like do stuff. But I'm going to like, I just got to slow down and like get done what needs to get done.
00:00:59
johngrimsmo
And that's where I'm at right now. So it's not like the greatest time, but um it's good.
00:01:04
John Saunders
know, the way you just said that reminds me of that book. we We talked about it for so long and I stopped talking about it because it's the E-Myth has
Exploring Roles with the E-Myth and Working Genius
00:01:12
John Saunders
basically permeated. Like, I don't really meet anybody who hasn't heard of it anymore.
00:01:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:16
John Saunders
And you know certainly we weren't the first folks to come across that book, but ah we probably played some small role in trying to make it a valued resource.
00:01:21
johngrimsmo
Sure. And yet I haven't opened it in 10 years or something like that.
00:01:25
John Saunders
Is that right? Well, but there's that, the idea of like the technician, the manager and the visionary or whatever the terms were kind of reminds me of what you just said, where
00:01:29
johngrimsmo
Yep. Entrepreneur.
00:01:35
John Saunders
There's the John Grimms mode that is, and um my words, this John Grimms that's kind of like not able to get some of the so current historical delayed work projects started or finished. Then there's the John Grimms who's very much in the present, crushing it, running Grimms and eyes.
00:01:49
John Saunders
Then there's the John Grimms that's this visionary of like, Hey, I want these things in the future. Um, and in some respects, I think those have parallels to those three roles in the E-myth, you
00:01:54
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:01:59
johngrimsmo
Absolutely. It's the same. Yeah. Yeah. And i I am not a good employee. Therefore, I have a lot of good employees on on staff.
00:02:08
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:02:08
johngrimsmo
um I can't do the same thing every day. i always want to do the next challenge. I have a hard time finishing projects that I'm working on. um And I keep adding more projects to that list. And that's how I like it.
00:02:18
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:20
johngrimsmo
And then I also have to be a leader and I'm not a very boisterous, strong leader.
00:02:21
John Saunders
Is there.
00:02:26
johngrimsmo
that's okay. I've got some other leaders on the team that fill in where I'm i'm weak.
00:02:28
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:02:29
johngrimsmo
But yeah.
00:02:32
John Saunders
Is there someone at Grimsville who literally is a finisher?
00:02:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I'd say so.
00:02:38
John Saunders
Okay.
00:02:38
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Which is good.
00:02:40
John Saunders
It's yeah, I say it sounds very unappealing to me as well, but it's like, maybe there's people that like to come in and be like, okay, spend 20 minutes, get me up to speed and I will finish this.
00:02:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:48
johngrimsmo
Well,
00:02:49
John Saunders
Take it off your plate.
00:02:50
johngrimsmo
I was going to save this for a few weeks, but I'll i'll start now. um When I was at Pearson's shop a few weeks ago, he had on the wall a printed out um results of a personality test that he has everybody in his company run called the six types of working genius.
00:03:03
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:03:07
johngrimsmo
And you're nodding. you've You've heard of this before. um
00:03:11
John Saunders
only because I sat in on Jay's condo session.
00:03:13
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:03:13
John Saunders
well sorry, the book, I know the book.
00:03:14
johngrimsmo
And I i did not.
00:03:16
John Saunders
Okay, I'll set it.
00:03:16
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah, I didn't get to catch his condo session, but I got to hang out with him for a day afterwards. um And so he has every employee take this, this test takes about nine minutes, it cost $25 per test.
00:03:29
johngrimsmo
So it's not free.
00:03:30
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:03:31
johngrimsmo
um But I saw the results. Every employee on his team is printed out on this chart. And it literally categorizes people into kind of three categories of working genius or six types of working genius. Oh, I'm drawing a blank right now. But it's like,
00:03:50
johngrimsmo
you have two categories where you're a genius and then you have two where you're competent and you have two where you're frustrated. And for me, the, um,
00:04:01
johngrimsmo
some of the aspects of the job is is pure frustration for me. Like, I'll do it. I can do it. But it's not joy. Whereas coming up with new things, figuring out problems, problem solving, things like that, that's that's where I live.
00:04:08
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:04:13
johngrimsmo
And other people on the team don't live there. you know
00:04:17
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:04:17
johngrimsmo
And so the point that he said, once he had the clarity of everybody on the team has this printed out, and literally in the lunchroom, If they have a task or a job or a project or a thing, they can look at that chart and know who's going to be good at it based on what kind of project it is.
00:04:32
John Saunders
OK.
00:04:33
johngrimsmo
And he's making sure that he has the right people in the right seats.
00:04:35
John Saunders
OK.
00:04:37
johngrimsmo
um on the bus kind of thing. And the other takeaway he said was it also gave them vocabulary to categorize types of people and types of work because it gives them words from this test results.
00:04:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So I took the test. I thought it was
Implementing Working Genius in Teams
00:05:00
johngrimsmo
fantastic. I thought it was spot on. I had my wife take it. I had my two kids take it.
00:05:04
John Saunders
Interesting.
00:05:05
johngrimsmo
And so now we have like a family results that we can look at it and we're all in the invention and wonder category as our geniuses, all four of us.
00:05:07
John Saunders
ah
00:05:15
John Saunders
The first two, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And then the two middle ones are decisiveness or a discernment and say it.
00:05:21
John Saunders
Discernment, galvanizing, I'm reading off ah of Google.
00:05:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. discernment galvanizing. And then the last two are enablement and tenacity.
00:05:29
John Saunders
Enablement.
00:05:31
johngrimsmo
Right. And I've only other had, had one guy on our team take it so far, but I'm going to have our directors take it first and then probably take everybody take it. And for me, my weakest ones are the enablement and galvanizing.
00:05:47
johngrimsmo
It's,
00:05:48
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:05:48
johngrimsmo
like galvanizing is, you know, rooting everybody together be like, come on team, let's go. And then enablement is, i will give you whatever you need to let you do your project and live your best life.
00:05:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:05:58
johngrimsmo
And, you know, it's very, uh, selfless and that's just not where I live. Like, you know, it's not who I am naturally.
00:06:09
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:06:09
johngrimsmo
And yeah so it, it's a series of like 50 questions. Um, Are the results skewed based on whatever? Is it the whole picture? I don't know, but it was pretty interesting.
00:06:21
johngrimsmo
I will say that it was quite fascinating. And I wasn't going to say it yet because I wanted to run the experiment, but since it came up, that was good to start talking about it But yeah, it's been super interesting.
00:06:28
John Saunders
Sure, sure, sure.
00:06:30
johngrimsmo
So once we apply to the team, I might have more more insight, more information.
00:06:36
John Saunders
Keep me posted because um read the book. I'm intrigued. Part of me very much understands that's where the world is today. And, you know, when you hear Jay talk about it with his passion his results, it is intoxicating. But I'm going to offer a counter viewpoint, not to be a devil's advocate and not because certainly not because I'm right. But I grew up um This isn't like an exaggeration, but it's a little bit of a mischaracterization to say I grew up on a farm, but I grew up working on a farm with a grandfather who, you know, came out of World War II and just a different generation, a different era. And it was kind just kind of like, could give two S's about this. And it's just like, there's something to do, go do it.
00:07:15
John Saunders
Like quit, like, hit
00:07:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's called work for a reason.
00:07:17
John Saunders
Yeah, yeah. And I'm not, so look, I'm not sitting here on my pedestal saying I'm right or whatever, but there is an aspect of like having built the business, you know, sometimes I got to go patch holes in a roof or an asphalt. And no, I'm not going call a company and like, I'm just going to go do it or change filters on something. And sometimes I'm doing cool cutting edge stuff. So I'm, but I know that doesn't, that sort of,
00:07:41
John Saunders
historical training or whatever, not training, but like behavior isn't necessarily the same as every person that walks through the door here
00:07:47
johngrimsmo
But you, John Saunders, are not going patch holes in asphalt all day long, every day.
00:07:53
John Saunders
A hundred, course not.
00:07:54
johngrimsmo
And that's kind of what this leads to. You're you're the the leader, the the innovator.
00:07:56
John Saunders
That's true.
00:07:58
johngrimsmo
the you're You're willing to do absolutely anything for a period of time. Sure.
00:08:03
John Saunders
but that's what i didn't know and maybe if you do a video of of your time of person maybe they'll help uh clarify because when i heard jay talking about it i'm like that's not what saunders is honers just doesn't have a board with like upcoming projects with everyone who's just like oh i need something to do so like no everyone has their machines everyone has their projects everyone has their areas like like we aren't this this think tank of just like oh let's just like start over from scratchy ta to figure out who's good at what
00:08:16
johngrimsmo
sure
00:08:21
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:08:27
johngrimsmo
And after having been in his shop, they were busy, they were active. the Same thing. Everybody's got their roles. Everybody's got their jobs. But when something comes up, then, you know, ah a newer employee could be like, i have this problem.
00:08:42
johngrimsmo
Who do I want to go talk to about it? Do i want to bug Jay? Or do I want to maybe go to the list and to our Armando is like the guy for this?
00:08:45
John Saunders
That's true, yeah.
00:08:48
johngrimsmo
Like, I know, i don't know.
00:08:51
John Saunders
That's a good point.
00:08:51
johngrimsmo
It's just it's a different way to think about things.
00:08:54
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:08:54
johngrimsmo
Which is fascinating.
00:08:56
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:08:57
johngrimsmo
And as you asked originally, you know is there somebody on the team who's like a doer? This test might prove that um in a different way.
00:09:05
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:09:05
johngrimsmo
you know And I feel like there's going to be some hidden talents that we're not leveraging that this test might reveal.
Internship Insights with Justin Gray
00:09:12
johngrimsmo
Like like enablement and galvanizing are my weakest traits according to this test.
00:09:16
johngrimsmo
And I kind of agree with it. um I'd be very curious to see if some of the guys on the team are hidden really good at that. And there was Leif's, my son, enablement was his, one of his thing, invention and enablement.
00:09:31
John Saunders
Interesting.
00:09:32
johngrimsmo
And so we talked about it and we're like, that's why you want to build video games because you want to invent the game and you want to enable other kids to like play and have fun and invent.
00:09:39
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:09:40
johngrimsmo
And and it's like, huh, this is really interesting. But his tenacity is the worst, which is very true. Yeah.
00:09:47
John Saunders
Well, so that's what for sure a question, not a accusation. I mean i would think the the definition on this website I have pulled up, the genius of tenacity is the natural gift of pushing projects or tasks to completion to achieve results.
00:10:00
John Saunders
Isn't that where you struggle the most job? Like not ask, not like accusing. Okay.
00:10:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that was my middle ground, my competency. um um I have enough tenacity to like see things through as needed, but i I want to see who on the team that's number one.
00:10:15
John Saunders
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:15
johngrimsmo
you know So that's fascinating.
00:10:16
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:18
johngrimsmo
And then it was Clara's competency as well.
00:10:18
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:20
johngrimsmo
And like with her art, she's she could put eight hours straight into like a painting or something like that. like She has that tenacity. Leif does not.
00:10:28
John Saunders
Yeah. yeah That's funny. That's cool. I'm not even sure how we got onto that, frankly. The finish.
00:10:35
johngrimsmo
So
00:10:36
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:39
John Saunders
hu
00:10:41
johngrimsmo
yeah, I did film that at Jay's. That'll go into our Pearson video um whenever that comes out.
00:10:48
John Saunders
Cool.
00:10:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:50
John Saunders
Well, we have a new intern at Saunders Machine Works who is dare i say famous?
00:10:55
johngrimsmo
o Is it an eager intern as well?
00:10:58
John Saunders
No, well, one one could say, no this all started, um i don't know, a while back and this individual was potentially gonna be winding down his time at his employer.
00:11:00
johngrimsmo
Well, he's pretty eager.
00:11:11
John Saunders
And I jokingly said, you should come work here. And he said, I'll do an internship. And I was like, done. And so Justin Gray from Toolpath started his, came up, showed up to work this morning
00:11:18
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:11:24
John Saunders
um as a Saunders Machine Works intern, and we even put him on our Tuesday task list. So he is ah the Tuesday task that we randomly he assigned him is to clear all the 3D printers of the poop chutes and build trays and waste filament and all that.
00:11:38
John Saunders
So, no, it's great to have Justin here for a week. He's helping us with a bunch of stuff on... like Actually, frankly, sounds like what he's doing for you and others, where he's looking at code.
00:11:44
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:11:47
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:11:47
John Saunders
We had a ah project in mind for him. we We're talking... i mean, it's awesome. Like, already talking about... putting our posts in Git so we can you know compare. if we wanna use AI to potentially modify a section of a post using Git to do the compare stuff and and check it and and most importantly, confirm that it's still safe to run code out of that new post and all that good stuff.
00:12:09
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:12:10
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:12:11
johngrimsmo
Very cool.
00:12:12
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:12:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that'll be fun. Enjoy that.
00:12:15
John Saunders
Yeah. we He sat in on our manager meeting this morning, because I wanted him to i wanted him to see if he had a perspective, because he does now see a lot of shops, and hopefully that'll be something, an insight to him.
00:12:22
johngrimsmo
Sure. Yeah.
00:12:26
John Saunders
And he inadvertently kind of said something that I think is, one of you know those things that are top of mind, but you don't realize it's top of mind to you? We were talking about a customer that, I think the example was they had a minor nick in a hobby fixture plate and we sent them a new one absolutely, um i feel compelled to defend ourselves.
00:12:50
John Saunders
We do a much, much, much better job than ever. And so defects are are rare, but sometimes, especially with the smaller plates that are handled by the post office, they do get minor dings to them.
00:12:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:13:00
John Saunders
And anyway, we sent the customer out a new plate, sent the old one back and Yvonne was going to have guys rework it. And Justin was just like, why would you rework that? Like, look at the numbers and all that. And it's an interesting question that I think I need to put some, I probably don't need to put a lot thought into it I think the answer is probably like the disruption of flow and focus to to accommodate rework is,
00:13:25
John Saunders
Kind of reminds me why Amazon doesn't take returns. They, you give the returns to Kohl's and then they put them on pallets and sell the pallets. Like Amazon is not re stocking stuff that you return to them. Um, it's just so backward on flow.
00:13:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I feel like Justin was talking to me about that at the Mammoth event about rework and and the, you know, just scrap the part kind of thing.
00:13:45
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:13:47
johngrimsmo
I forget exactly what we're talking about, but it did come up. And, uh, It's, it's a tricky balance because, you know, we as machinists go, oh, I can fix that. Like i I could throw that back on the machine. I could kiss the face again. i could, I could, you know, hand sand that feature off. I could do whatever.
00:14:04
johngrimsmo
The disruption of flow is very fascinating and yeah, takes you out of it, you know? and we tend to do i wouldn't say a lot of rework but we're very willing to do rework as necessary um because some of our products like the blades especially have so many steps that we've talked about the scrap versus rework situation and we haven't done all the math but it's like there's a lot of work that goes into a blade and for somebody to
00:14:31
John Saunders
Yeah.
Challenges of Reworking vs. Scrapping Parts
00:14:32
johngrimsmo
take 20 minutes to rework it is not a big deal and i don't know where's the value you know you got figure out your own math but
00:14:39
John Saunders
Yeah, there's and there's open-minded ways to think about it, not maybe for you, because I know you you are so controlled in how you market your and sell your products, but like, There's probably a reason why some companies like Steric make grade A and grade AA of something. Like there could be a sick case, because like an example for us would be like, we're not going to scrap a 20 by 40 steel plate if there's the very vinyl operation, the chamfer tool gouges the chamfer in a corner.
00:15:06
John Saunders
We're not going to scrap it. um Now, hopefully if it's already on the machine, we catch it. It's not really a rework. It's just a quick fix, if you will. but um You know, whether you do sell that as a blend, do you sell that in some other state or condition to allow it to be maybe for you as a friends and family knife, or is it, I know you would throw up at the idea of selling like a lower quality knife, but, um, like you could, you would you ever do a Frankenstein series of just like mismatched parts that have whatever, you know i mean?
00:15:23
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:15:29
johngrimsmo
Well, it's like,
00:15:34
John Saunders
It's almost like funny that they're screwed up.
00:15:36
johngrimsmo
It's actually a really good idea. I like that. um It reminds me of Virigo Fix, how they make their yeah ER collets. They invented the ER collet. And the UP collets that you can buy, the ultra-precision ones, I've been told, ah they just make one collet and they sort them by UPs.
00:15:53
John Saunders
Yeah, exactly.
00:15:54
johngrimsmo
Those are the ones that get inspected better and the rest are fine.
00:15:56
John Saunders
Yeah. Bingo. I think i know I've said this to before, but i'll never on the podcast, I'll never forget it. My college roommates, family was in the ski industry and you could take your skis into their store overnight for tuning and you could buy three or four different levels of tune to from like basic to race level tune, like big price difference.
00:16:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:16:13
John Saunders
They all just got done at the highest level.
00:16:18
johngrimsmo
That's funny. Then it becomes more like customer psychology than, you know, which customers are willing to pay them more money for the perceived value.
00:16:24
John Saunders
And funny. Right.
00:16:30
John Saunders
Oh.
00:16:33
johngrimsmo
cool um i've been working on carbon fiber machining yesterday getting back into inlays it's been a long time since i worked on inlays because i was so sick of the process of uh you know two-sided tape or two pieces of tape with glue in the middle and launching inlays and breaking tools and wearing tools it's such an abrasive material and
00:16:44
John Saunders
oh
00:16:47
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:16:56
johngrimsmo
uh there's a lot of ways to fixture it and i i see a lot of of other knife makers and you know jewelry people that have their ways you know You could drill holes in the material, you could just bolt it down, but I don't like that.
00:17:06
John Saunders
hmm.
00:17:07
johngrimsmo
I want each piece held down. So I've been experimenting with Mighty Bytes fixturing wax, which are these little red, white, or blue sticks of a very specific kind of wax that is meant to be a glue layer.
00:17:14
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:17:22
johngrimsmo
So you heat up your fixture and you kind of paste it on like a hot glue stick or like like a glue stick. And then you have a very thin layer of wax, so your part floats on it. And then when it cools, it it's held with apparently 400 psi of force, which is like a lot. um And so I've had the stick of of the blue stuff, the highest strength stuff for a little while. Finally got everything all set up yesterday. Yeah.
00:17:47
johngrimsmo
made a fixture, milled the profiles for each part i can go the so the tool can go under the material just a little bit into the fixture. And then I stoned the fixture really good and I cleaned it like really, really well. I wanted to give it every chance of success as as humanly possible. So I cleaned it under hot water with a toothbrush and soap and then isopropyl alcohol and then acetone and then isopropyl again. and like, I wanted to get it so the water doesn't bead off. it It goes off in sheets and that tells you it's like really, really clean.
00:18:18
johngrimsmo
I was like, okay, that's really good. And then I you know let it dry really good. And then I did the same for the carbon fiber and then I glued it together and I put it on. And so far, the only way I could think to fixture this six by six inch chunk of aluminum, this fixture is vacuum onto my vacuum palette.
00:18:33
John Saunders
Okay.
00:18:36
johngrimsmo
And start machining and it starts, I was making these little circles. It started throwing parts and I was like, no, And then I started machining a bigger inlay and it was rough profiling.
00:18:48
johngrimsmo
And I'm all playing with the strategy of like, do i you know cut all the way through and go of profile or do I cut you know halfway down, leave a web on the bottom and just tickle that at the end. But that wears the end mill in different ways.
00:18:59
johngrimsmo
And because the material is so abrasive, I'm trying to find like the most consistent wear method possible for the tool.
00:19:06
John Saunders
on. I'm
00:19:07
johngrimsmo
Like if you step down, you know, 5,000 profile, all you're going to do is wear the tip of the tool.
00:19:10
John Saunders
sure you were.
00:19:14
johngrimsmo
So ended up not throwing the part, but I ended up shifting the whole fixture on the vacuum table.
00:19:19
John Saunders
Oh, serious.
00:19:20
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:19:21
John Saunders
Really? With the radial forces from carbon? i it That seems ridiculous.
00:19:24
johngrimsmo
From eighth inch carbon fiber and an eighth inch end mill. Um, And then i took the fixture under the microscope and I looked and even the little circles that I was trying to machine, I can tell because the way the fixture is like over machined that the fixture moved while cutting these little parts.
00:19:41
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:19:42
johngrimsmo
So it's not that the wax like failed, it's that the fixture moved, it created a burr in the aluminum fixture, which kicked up and probably caused the part to launch off plus everything else.
00:19:54
johngrimsmo
And so I'm probably just going to go to like a kind of pallet, top pallet bolted method where that that six inch piece of aluminum is bolted to a subplate that
Machining Carbon Fiber and Fixture Stability
00:20:06
johngrimsmo
I can then quick change onto my machine so that everything's like as rigid as possible.
00:20:12
John Saunders
What machine is he doing this on?
00:20:13
johngrimsmo
It's on the speedio.
00:20:15
John Saunders
Okay. You have a chunk system, right?
00:20:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I do. Yeah. It's just more fixture work to make.
00:20:20
John Saunders
Yeah, sure.
00:20:20
johngrimsmo
um as As much as I like making fixtures, I don't really like making fixtures. I don't like taking the time to make fixtures.
00:20:26
John Saunders
Yeah, sure. Sure.
00:20:28
johngrimsmo
um So yeah, that's where I'm right now. So it's like result. I mean, it's a result and it's progress. I was frustrated until I saw under the microscope.
00:20:38
johngrimsmo
I was like, oh, the fixture is jiggling this whole time. OK, now i had to go home at that point.
00:20:41
John Saunders
Yeah, it's fine.
00:20:43
johngrimsmo
But I'm like, I can go home happy because i have I have data now, you know?
00:20:49
John Saunders
The laser can't do this?
00:20:52
johngrimsmo
um No, because we want to machine like a corner rounder on the top, and I want the accuracy to be like really, really tight, good finishes and things like that.
00:20:56
John Saunders
Uh-huh. Got him.
00:20:59
johngrimsmo
like It could blank out stuff, but not accurately.
00:21:00
John Saunders
Got
00:21:03
John Saunders
him. Yeah, blanking is counterproductive, right? Because you...
00:21:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and I want to face it down to the right thickness and like make a nice finish on the top.
00:21:07
John Saunders
Right.
00:21:09
johngrimsmo
and
00:21:12
johngrimsmo
So it's like machining carbon fiber is not difficult.
00:21:12
John Saunders
Hmm.
00:21:15
johngrimsmo
Machining it accurately, tight tolerance, and a lot of it is where it starts to get really difficult because the tools wear and they break and how do you hold it and all that stuff.
00:21:25
John Saunders
What's the plan now?
00:21:27
johngrimsmo
Figure out that new fixture situation and then continue testing the wax. It should work, probably work.
00:21:35
John Saunders
And you're using flood cooling?
00:21:36
johngrimsmo
using flood coolant to manage the dust because that you do not want to breathe carbon fiber dust.
00:21:37
John Saunders
Why you do this? Right.
00:21:41
johngrimsmo
um And we've got plenty of filtration on that machine, like two filters that takes out pretty much everything.
00:21:42
John Saunders
Right.
00:21:48
johngrimsmo
So yeah.
00:21:49
John Saunders
Yeah. Hmm.
00:21:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah, like I want to have inlays for blade show knives. So that's the you know the fire under my butt right now.
00:21:54
John Saunders
Right. figured that's what you're saying
00:22:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:22:04
John Saunders
you were saying. It bothers me. I'm sitting here chewing on It bothers me that like that's this is something that should be doable, right? Like very reliable process.
00:22:11
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:22:12
John Saunders
that's
00:22:12
johngrimsmo
And that's what I want.
00:22:13
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:22:13
johngrimsmo
Reliable process.
00:22:14
John Saunders
Sure. Sure.
00:22:14
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:22:14
John Saunders
Sure.
00:22:15
johngrimsmo
And then tooling wise. So I've been using CVD diamond coated end mills, not, not DLC.
00:22:19
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:22:22
johngrimsmo
Um, it's an actual like thicker layer of diamond that's grown onto the outside of the tool. Uh, it's kind of interesting, but it flakes off when it starts to wear and, uh, pretty expensive, like 130 bucks for an eighth inch end mill.
00:22:40
John Saunders
did we talk about this? Why don't you use like $8 lakeshore and just replace it every 20 minutes?
00:22:45
johngrimsmo
It's possible, but you'd be replacing it every three parts. um So I don't know. And then the other thing that I do wanna try is Mary Tool makes CVD, no, PCD ah code um brazed on PCD tip and mills, like actual diamond tooling, which is apparently awesome for carbon fiber, it like lasts for so long, because it's so hard.
00:23:06
John Saunders
Okay.
00:23:13
johngrimsmo
um
00:23:14
John Saunders
The, good.
00:23:15
johngrimsmo
I go back and try the $8 end mill idea. Because I...
00:23:22
John Saunders
I mean, getting some made for latede for blade is different than like refining the full-time long-term process.
00:23:26
johngrimsmo
Exactly. um um um my mom Because last time I tried to tackle this two years ago, I wanted to make 12 inch by 12 inch sheet of carbon fiber with like 30 inlays.
00:23:37
John Saunders
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:39
johngrimsmo
And an $8 end mill is not going to last that long and make accurate parts. But right now I'm just doing three pairs of inlays. in a smaller fixture so maybe maybe I could get away with it.
00:23:50
johngrimsmo
I'll consider that.
00:23:50
John Saunders
So the the stack of stuff here, you have a sheet of carbon fiber, then you have Mighty Bite wax, then you have a piece of aluminum, then the aluminum was vacuumed down.
00:23:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. Correct.
00:24:01
John Saunders
Oh yeah, that's that's an easy easy way to change. you know I'm laughing because you don't own a vice. There's no room, right?
00:24:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:24:10
John Saunders
But yeah, um you think you think the what the carbon fiber with the wax on the aluminum, that stack was stable. It was interesting.
00:24:21
johngrimsmo
I can't tell yet, but I i don't know. All sides point to yes. But I know clearly the the vacuum was the weak point right now.
00:24:29
John Saunders
Are you, yeah. Are you willing to take like over one corner of the carbon fiber to drill a hole and then put a cap, but just a cap screw through there?
00:24:38
johngrimsmo
I could, but then I got to have a holes in the fixture as well.
00:24:40
John Saunders
Plus the wax. Sure, but that whole like even vacuum, if you add if you're able to, or willing to add a strap clamp in one little spot, it really helps how a vacuum can work.
00:24:42
johngrimsmo
um
00:24:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:24:54
John Saunders
You put a C-clamp around the whole thing.
00:24:54
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:24:56
John Saunders
um
00:24:56
johngrimsmo
I don't have room for that.
00:24:57
John Saunders
Okay.
00:24:58
johngrimsmo
But yeah, there's there's ways.
00:25:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah, lots of ways to do it.
00:25:06
John Saunders
We had our brother talk about highs and lows.
00:25:06
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:25:11
John Saunders
We had needed to run top jaws for the Modvice in it. We had run them one at a time, but had not run them in automation with the robot. And we kind of had a huddle about it last week and they started running it Friday morning.
00:25:24
John Saunders
Grant and Courtney got the robot programmed and running. And it was honestly, i kind of sort of said like, Hey, let's make sure we have time. Let's not assume it's going to be like, let's just, let's take break down the steps, take every little win as a small victory and build up to a, and they just, they crushed it.
00:25:40
John Saunders
Like he was just it was just, the stars did align and it ran them all day Friday.
00:25:42
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:25:45
John Saunders
And then yesterday, uh, Yeah, Monday it ran them all day during the day. It was doing so well that i was like, load it up. I'll be back tonight after the kids activities and I'll check on it.
00:25:58
John Saunders
And um even when I came in, oh, when I came in, it hit actually, this is really cool. um It hit alarmed out. So it hit alarmed out because we were feeding it a piece of material that we don't run in the horizontal because the saw cut was undersized. So we started to set this material aside.
00:26:15
John Saunders
it's and The material cost is enough that we wouldn't throw it away, but it wasn't enough that we would gather, you know, we buy a thousand pieces and 17 are undersized. I understand we could call back the vendor and say, hey, I want to recredit for these, but um we sort of said, well, let's set them aside. We'll figure out what to do with it later.
00:26:33
John Saunders
And so we put those in and it worked, except it was just small enough that when the Lights Out RoboWrench was tightening the vice, it timed out and said, hey,
00:26:45
John Saunders
I've tightened enough that I now think this part is either undersized or not there. And so I FaceTimed Grant. i was like, hey, and he walked me through pretty quick how to fix that and say it's OK, part's good. And then it kept running until um kind of a buzzkill. um Our coolant pump is...
00:27:04
John Saunders
It didn't crap out, but something's wrong. And a little bit disappointed in the whole coolant system on that machine. We had problems with the TSC prime. We've had problems with the flood coolant. um And so to their credit, Yamazen had a guy here in like three hours.
00:27:18
johngrimsmo
Whoa.
00:27:19
John Saunders
And, um, we were, we were kind, but we were also like, Hey, we've, we've dealt with a lot already. And, you know we had sort of documented a lot of, were like, Hey, earlier on, like, fittings aren't tight. This isn't working. This is wrong. We had to flip this around. And then, you know, this was at some point, somebody was like, well, have you heard, you know, is there coolant in the tank? And we're like, Oh, okay. We're going to same page here. Like we're trying to help solve this problem, but to their credit, you guys, somebody here we hopefully get that fixed because it's just like been awesome. Every time you come in, you just see that thing running.
00:27:48
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:27:49
John Saunders
Um, yeah.
00:27:50
johngrimsmo
Man, that's so good.
00:27:51
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:27:56
johngrimsmo
um RSpeedio has, know, for the past few months, I've talked to you about the Fjell blades, grinding the blades not being super accurate. And then a few weeks ago, or maybe a month or two, i basically added two new screws to like tighten the blade better.
00:28:11
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:28:12
johngrimsmo
So instead of clamping from the outside of the blade, I'm clamping through some holes that are already in the blade, which took accuracy and consistency through the roof.
00:28:18
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:28:21
johngrimsmo
um And that process has been, and so we're holding like three tenths of bevel position across every blade we've made over the past two months.
00:28:21
John Saunders
Interesting.
00:28:31
johngrimsmo
It's like 10 times better than what than it used to be.
00:28:32
John Saunders
That's great.
00:28:34
John Saunders
I remember how ah how long you kind of fought that and didn't know. and
00:28:38
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:28:38
John Saunders
Interesting.
00:28:39
johngrimsmo
And it's as simple as adding two screws, but...
00:28:39
John Saunders
Well, good.
00:28:41
johngrimsmo
um I resisted, I didn't want to, because it takes longer to load the blades now. Before you could you could crack the clamp just a quarter turn, slip your blade in, tighten the clamp, and now you have to physically unscrew a screw all the way out of the blade and put it all the way back in. And now I have two different screw sizes, an M6 and an M5, and I don't like that, and two different driver heads, two different torque wrenches.
00:29:03
johngrimsmo
And then now I'm trying to apply that same logic to the RASC, but I can't do an M5 and an M6, I have to do an M5 and an M4. and that's just more annoyance hassle, but to get the right result, is it worth doing?
00:29:15
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:29:19
johngrimsmo
Probably.
00:29:20
John Saunders
No, not probably. You have to start there, John. Now we can go build back up.
00:29:23
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:29:24
John Saunders
You can't change them all to M4s or all to M5s, even if you had to redo everything.
00:29:25
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:29:29
johngrimsmo
i could probably change the fjall to all to be smaller.
00:29:33
John Saunders
Okay.
00:29:34
johngrimsmo
i don't know, but that works. That's a process that just works. so I kind of don't want to mess with that. um And at,
00:29:41
John Saunders
No, now' now's when you are allowed to mess with it, John.
00:29:43
johngrimsmo
Well, and now I need to get the Rask functioning.
00:29:46
John Saunders
Okay, fair enough.
00:29:47
johngrimsmo
And the Fjell is currently functioning, leave it alone.
00:29:50
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:29:50
johngrimsmo
um And then we will end up with probably a bit of a messier process with a lot of moving pieces, but it'll just work all the time. So anyway, so I'm applying the same stuff to the Rask. i Don't have results yet, but I think it should like be a huge win.
00:30:07
John Saunders
Part of me knows this is what is exciting because it's like, now you can take this fixture and this may be a terrible idea, but you could 3D print a jig that has three wrenches or the two, all like are there are four screws with two different sizes.
00:30:21
John Saunders
So you have four little Allen key side things that are actually held captive in this 3D print and then fixture magnets on and all four wrenches are right now in the same place. And so you just go, zoop, zoop, zoop, it could be by hand or could be with the hand tool.
00:30:34
John Saunders
um I don't think you,
00:30:35
johngrimsmo
That's kind of the automotive, you know, solution, you know?
00:30:37
John Saunders
Kind of, yeah um
00:30:40
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:30:41
John Saunders
yeah. And that may not be, like I said, that may not be a great idea, but maybe it's the start of something that's interesting that,
00:30:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I love about ideas like that because it sparks a leapfrog into the next idea, into the next idea. What if we did this? What if we did that? That's not going to work. But now that you mention it, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:31:02
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:31:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:31:04
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:31:05
johngrimsmo
So it's been a huge win. And we used to stack up orders for fjell bevels because it was a slow, long process. And we'd have like too many orders for that machine. And now we're able to blow through every order that comes through the door in that operation.
00:31:20
johngrimsmo
And like basically just overnight. like When we go home, we head start and all the blades we need for the day are done.
00:31:26
John Saunders
Yeah, yeah i
00:31:26
johngrimsmo
And then we have the machine available all day instead of spending all day, daytime, just doing that operation. It's great.
Optimizing Knife Production Processes
00:31:35
John Saunders
yeah. The thing you mentioned probably a month ago, I remember it as a fish bone diagram.
00:31:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah, right.
00:31:41
John Saunders
think there was a fancier word for it.
00:31:43
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:31:43
John Saunders
um I really liked that.
00:31:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:31:47
John Saunders
I watched a couple of videos on it and and we had we'd had a problem here where we um um ended up being a material issue.
00:31:49
johngrimsmo
Good. Yeah,
00:31:56
John Saunders
And I think there's something that's disarming that makes you check your own ego and it makes you ask questions. you know And it's easy, it's way too easy to like analyze these situations post-mortem.
00:32:06
John Saunders
It's like, oh, of course it was the fixturing. But like the reality is a lot of smart people spend a lot of time to sort of figure out what's going on.
00:32:08
johngrimsmo
yeah.
00:32:12
John Saunders
Is it a grindy wheel? Is it a brother backlash? Is it thermal? Is it code? And it's just like that, everybody starting from the ground up and thinking about every aspect that can affect tooling and cooling and material and reliability and repeatability, fixture and torque and all that.
00:32:28
John Saunders
And then you can just start sort of saying like, could it be this or could it not? And it and for me, maybe it's just my personality. I really think that hasn't, we tweet have not used it on a current problem to be solved yet, but I look forward to it.
00:32:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. If you keep it top of mind or even print out the template and just put it up in the meeting room or something like that, I'd actually kind of forgotten about it top of mind.
00:32:45
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:32:49
johngrimsmo
So I'm glad you brought it up.
00:32:50
John Saunders
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:32:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:54
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it was, um,
00:32:55
John Saunders
That was the...
00:32:57
johngrimsmo
Real quick, the when I was at um Muon Space hanging out with Jeff Tittican, I actually got to see that kind of bit.
00:33:03
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:33:04
johngrimsmo
I got to see Jeff, the machinist, and an engineer lady get to like solve a problem right in front of me. and And she brought some drawings and she said, hey, ah I designed the parts like this, you made them like this, but they actually don't fit together. They interfere in this little this little corner.
00:33:20
johngrimsmo
And she goes, do you think we could put a slot in here? And Jeff looks at it and goes, yeah, no problem. That part's not structural at all. It's just, yeah, I can either remachine it or I can make it next time. And it was just kind of fun to watch that interaction back and forth.
00:33:31
johngrimsmo
eat No ego, no nothing. And it's just like they move forward very quickly. And I was like, that was I feel honored to just have watched that, you know?
00:33:39
John Saunders
Yeah. Right? um For sure. That was my like note I'd made and i wish I had a really good example to bribe the point home, but I find that we as humans or certainly me as a person, I struggle sometimes to realize something in front of me could be just like,
00:33:57
John Saunders
realize how much better it could be if you just got rid of this annoyance. We're so used to like accepting compromise.
00:34:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:03
John Saunders
And I don't mean like big dramatic ways. I just mean like, Oh, every time I go to put that screwdriver in this feature to undo it, it's always like, it's a blind hole or always tough. And it's just like, well, I'm making this up now.
00:34:14
John Saunders
Why don't you print a little bushing stick on the shaft that screwdriver. And every time you drop the screwdriver into the hole itself centers and floats in that board. It's like a lot of times this stuff is not complicated. And, um,
00:34:24
johngrimsmo
I think you're you've grown to be very good at noticing and being annoyed by those things. And some employees are very fine at just be like, it's fine. don't don't even Don't waste your time thinking about this. I'll just do it. I'll just do it the hard way. It's no big deal.
00:34:39
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:34:39
johngrimsmo
And some my employees are like that, my brother specifically.
00:34:39
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:34:42
johngrimsmo
He's like, don't even worry about it. It's fine. I'll just keep doing it. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm trying to like grow a business and make this better.
00:34:48
John Saunders
ah yeah
00:34:49
johngrimsmo
And like that it annoys me that and it annoys you. Yeah.
00:34:53
John Saunders
Well, my point is I just don't even realize it. And the the two examples I've brought up numerous times is like SenCut Sen and Adafruit. It's like, or a Machine Shop. Over the years when I've needed sheet metal parts, it was historically just not possible.
00:35:04
John Saunders
It's such a nightmare to get sheet metal parts done.
00:35:06
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:35:06
John Saunders
um And similarly with Adafruit 10 years, 15 years ago, it's like, oh man, I've heard that Texas Instruments makes a really cool accelerometer, but like, I don't, I can't write like hex logic code to flash to a chip. And it's like, Adafruit's like, we'll we'll just make breakout boards with an Arduino library. And now John Saunders,
00:35:23
John Saunders
idiot can just make it work with these sample sketches. And it's like stuff like that where you're just like, oh my gosh, of course, it's so, so genius.
00:35:33
johngrimsmo
Yep, and it's obvious once you know about those paths, but until then, it's like insurmountable.
00:35:37
John Saunders
Right.
00:35:40
johngrimsmo
You just accept.
00:35:42
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:35:42
johngrimsmo
and I don't like to accept. But yeah, there's so many things in my life probably that I'm not even noticing. Could be way better if another set of eyes, like you having Justin there this week, another set of eyes can be like, why are you guys doing it like this?
00:35:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:35:55
johngrimsmo
Don't you know about Yep.
00:35:59
John Saunders
No, but 100%. That's like going back to the original reason why I did all those shop tours on YouTube was it just felt, it was satiated my curiosity. And then it's like, no but like everybody else wants see Now everybody doesn't.
00:36:08
johngrimsmo
Totally.
00:36:11
John Saunders
So it's different.
00:36:11
johngrimsmo
m
00:36:12
John Saunders
But ah um there's also like, And I think it's probably one of my character flaws. we know You and I talked about this, I think publicly and privately, that like I often come off as far more critical than I mean to, and I sound rude for it, but it's more just like, it's just my personality and it's it's it's actually what I would want. Like, of course, it's not always fun to be publicly, you know, taken down a notch, but like, if you came to the shop next time, I'd rather you tell me things that you see that suck or could be done better, not like pat me on the back all the time.
00:36:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. Like when I was doing the shop tours in California the other week, I was asking a lot of questions. You know, I'd poke my head in the corner and be like, tell me about that.
00:36:51
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:36:51
johngrimsmo
Not judging, but very curious. And they'd be like, oh, no big deal. We just solved it with a little 3D print in the corner. i'm like, oh, dude, that's brilliant. Like, yeah.
00:37:01
John Saunders
Right?
00:37:03
johngrimsmo
So I got a lot of that on film, which is good.
00:37:03
John Saunders
so been Good. I'm excited for these. Let's get those videos going, John.
00:37:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:10
John Saunders
Not that you don't have a million other things in your plate, including played show.
00:37:14
johngrimsmo
Yep. I'm
00:37:16
John Saunders
I'm going through that now. I think I mentioned the home workshop on the podcast last week or was that when we, so doing a, the, our formal living room at our house, like whatever, it's always been whatever.
00:37:22
johngrimsmo
not sure.
00:37:30
John Saunders
And I'm like, I, it's where Johnny Five has been for the last year. And I'm like, Yvonne, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna turn it into homework shot now, like formally, but make it look nice.
00:37:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:37:38
John Saunders
And so, um, I bought two pieces of butcher blocks, stained them, built, built, uh, built a 14 desk.
00:37:47
johngrimsmo
Whoa.
00:37:48
John Saunders
Um, two floating, two floating shelves that have built in LEDs that are color addressable for color temp and, and, and volume, and then put up, um, I'd had wall control before, but then I found an Omni wall, which I think I do like better. So mounted, um, mounted a whole strip of Omni wall. And the point of this comment here, it is actually picture.
00:38:10
John Saunders
Um, there it's, that's how it looked kind of like two nights ago.
00:38:15
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:38:16
John Saunders
um So there's this urge with OmniWall, which is just fancy pegboard to like go put up all my tools. it's like, no, let's really be deliberate. Like, so I empty out all my toolbox drawers of stuff I have at home, laid them all out, and I'm just going to slowly build it up.
00:38:30
John Saunders
So that way, um, because I really enjoy this process. It's like very fun for me, but it's like, no, don't just litter the whole thing because then it looks cool.
00:38:39
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:38:40
John Saunders
like Let's be very deliberate about, like I want these screwdrivers here, these hex wrenches here, my Knifex here, Wira's here, but then let's leave everything else aside and let's see what I start to grab and then find homes for it and 3D prints for it and all that
00:38:42
johngrimsmo
Love
00:38:53
johngrimsmo
it. And are you 3D printing every wall mount to to hang up pi pliers or whatever?
00:38:58
John Saunders
that. Yeah, basically. I'm not really using any of the sheet metal interfaces. It's almost all the... the There's a pretty well-known repository like DDD for wall control and somebody, God bless them, ported it over to OmniWall.
00:39:14
John Saunders
So there's a lot of existing general purpose like brackets, but then also like there's a ton of bespoke 3D prints for Weira, NipX, Weeha, sort of like those high-end bougie tools that frankly we all kind
00:39:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
Innovative Home Workshop Projects
00:39:30
John Saunders
of like.
00:39:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:31
John Saunders
know what I mean?
00:39:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Nice.
00:39:35
John Saunders
then here's the debate and then I'll shut up. The debate is my home computer is old, not old enough that I need to replace it, but now I'm like, oh, okay. It's an all-in one. And so it sits on the desk. So here's, I think I want to do.
00:39:47
John Saunders
There is a flat case CPU thing you can buy. It's not any more expensive than a regular case. I could mount it underneath the bench and I'd probably put off to the side where I don't normally sit.
00:39:55
johngrimsmo
Mm.
00:39:58
John Saunders
So it wouldn't even interfere with my knees. But then
00:40:00
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:40:02
John Saunders
I'd want a flat monitor and you don't, you can't really get flat monitors cause they have enough, they're too thick, but I don't do gaming. i don't need like crazy monitors. You can get 24 inch portable monitor.
00:40:13
John Saunders
That's just USB-C powered. That is like, ah it's like six millimeters thick and totally flat.
00:40:18
johngrimsmo
Whoa.
00:40:19
John Saunders
And you can either mount it on the wall control or you can actually trim the wall control out, put a bezel around it and then recess it.
00:40:23
johngrimsmo
Mm.
00:40:25
John Saunders
or have it be co-planar with the wall control. I think it would look sick.
00:40:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it would be totally built in.
00:40:32
John Saunders
no cables anywhere, wireless keyboard, mouse.
00:40:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:40:35
John Saunders
I'd put USB into the wall control so that your plugs, you'd move, plug and unplug through there.
00:40:38
johngrimsmo
Nice. Yeah.
00:40:41
John Saunders
what What do you?
00:40:42
johngrimsmo
I think that sounds great. um It's permanent in a way. i mean, you can always change it.
00:40:48
John Saunders
Yeah. No,
00:40:49
johngrimsmo
That's the only kind of downside to like cutting it into the Omni board, whatever it is. But like, so.
00:40:55
John Saunders
no you just, you pop those out and replace the whole panel if you had to for 40 bucks.
00:40:59
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:40:59
John Saunders
So I hear you, but also like, i don't care.
00:41:01
johngrimsmo
what's omniboard made of okay omni wall okay cool sure but then like to cut of a recess into it is not a trivial task it's not like
00:41:03
John Saunders
steel omni wall yeah it's quite it's quite rugged um
00:41:16
John Saunders
ah a zip saw one of those uh oscillating flat blades would go through it and then put a little bezel around it um
00:41:21
johngrimsmo
yeah cool yeah
00:41:26
John Saunders
the
00:41:26
johngrimsmo
yeah I love that you're committing to this like in your your living room of your house because you're like, I'm not going to stop being me. like I've been building Johnny Five here.
00:41:35
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah. It's, this is happening,
00:41:39
johngrimsmo
you know Exactly.
00:41:41
John Saunders
but it's good too. Like I do it with the kids and it looks nice.
00:41:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:41:44
John Saunders
Um, so okay.
00:41:44
johngrimsmo
Totally.
00:41:46
John Saunders
I'm um' well, it says the guy doing it. I'm okay with it, but like, no, like it's, it's different than just having a mess in the kitchen.
00:41:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Which is me right now.
00:41:55
John Saunders
No, sorry. I didn't mean like that.
00:41:56
johngrimsmo
No, it's true though.
00:41:57
John Saunders
if
00:41:57
johngrimsmo
And I'm trying to, ah you know, my wife and I were talking about what do you need up here and what can you store in the basement and go get in bins as you need it? was like, well, kind of just want it all right in front of me so I can look and be like, oh yeah, I should work on that. If I hide it, it'll disappear from my mind, but I'll be respectful and I can try to, uh,
00:42:16
johngrimsmo
um put away the things that I don't need, like, like the time grapher for adjusting my watches. It's right beside my desk. I haven't touched it in six months. It's like, that doesn't have to be out and right next to me.
00:42:24
John Saunders
the
00:42:28
johngrimsmo
Things like that. So, but yeah, I'm trying to cram everything into like a three foot wide watchmaker's desk with a whole ton of drawers and everything else is sprawling all around it.
00:42:35
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:42:37
johngrimsmo
All the electronics projects and the box of Raspberry Pis and the optic stuff and everything. But That said, i have made some stellar progress on my white light interferometer.
00:42:44
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:42:49
John Saunders
Do tell.
00:42:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah. um I've been stuck for the past few months avoiding making the 3D prints that hold the reference mirror, the beam splitter, the LED, and I've got a linear rail and I've got a whole bunch of magnets and a sensor.
00:43:06
johngrimsmo
And it's just like, I need 3D print that holds all of this and lets it slide and adjust and, you know, kinematic three-point mount kind of thing with the adjuster screws.
00:43:13
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:43:15
johngrimsmo
It's a decent amount of work. um But this weekend I just tackled it and i was like, this is happening. So I did it and I just finalized the last 3D print right now and it seems to be all working.
00:43:27
johngrimsmo
And I printed, I think it's all printed now. The last thing just finished or will finish in the next 10 minutes. And then now it's just assembly. And then the final things to get usable scans are a bit of wiring,
00:43:42
johngrimsmo
and a bit of software to just get it to all talk to itself.
00:43:44
John Saunders
OK.
00:43:45
johngrimsmo
But I've done it in chunks. Like I've got the magnetic sensing sensor for the scale. I've got code for that that works. um And then I've got,
00:43:56
John Saunders
That's based on the guy's old.
00:43:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah, the diffraction limited guy.
00:44:00
John Saunders
Thank you.
00:44:00
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:44:01
John Saunders
OK. Yeah, sweet.
00:44:01
johngrimsmo
So he had it on an arc. I'm having it in a straight line. It's just a string of magnets that go north, south, north, south, north, south.
00:44:05
John Saunders
OK.
00:44:07
johngrimsmo
And then the MT, whatever sensor, basically scans across north, south, north, south and sees 2 million points between each magnet.
00:44:08
John Saunders
OK.
00:44:17
johngrimsmo
And it literally counts up to 2 million and then it drops down to zero. So you have this, whatever that's called, not square wave, but triangle wave of the readout.
00:44:24
John Saunders
Okay.
00:44:25
johngrimsmo
that just tapers up and then drops to zero. And then now you know you're on the next magnet. And then it does that again. But that doesn't tell you directional control, really.
00:44:34
John Saunders
Oh, hence the AB.
00:44:35
johngrimsmo
So, exactly. So, and then it doesn't give you a home switch either. But I'm sitting there asking chat, I'm like, what if I have my string of magnets and I flip the last, the first and the last ones over?
00:44:40
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:44:46
johngrimsmo
So they're like north to north together. And what will that do for the output?
00:44:50
John Saunders
Hmm.
00:44:50
johngrimsmo
And can I write the software to be like, okay, home to here when the... you know, the normally triangle waves like get weird.
00:44:58
John Saunders
Sure, sure.
00:45:00
johngrimsmo
And I did some testing a few weeks ago and that works great. And so I need to still write that software, but so I will not only have a home position, but limit switches on either end just by switching the magnets over.
00:45:13
johngrimsmo
And then once I have a home reference, then any movement forward or backwards is known because you know, you're moving in one direction, you know, you're moving in the other and it's to be so sick.
00:45:19
John Saunders
Yes.
00:45:24
John Saunders
It's awesome.
00:45:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:26
John Saunders
I told you offline about my DRO project, right?
00:45:29
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:45:30
John Saunders
Okay, i'll i'll maybe I'll share more with that later.
Personal Tech and Creative Projects
00:45:33
John Saunders
It's like an art thing I'm doing, but ah same issue.
00:45:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing.
00:45:35
John Saunders
There's no home switch on it, but I'm just soft.
00:45:36
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:45:37
John Saunders
You can just hit a key to soft home in it.
00:45:39
johngrimsmo
Okay. Like from any position?
00:45:40
John Saunders
But it's, yeah, yeah.
00:45:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:42
John Saunders
So you canat you can actually hit a home in the middle if you want, whatever.
00:45:44
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:45:45
John Saunders
But it's up and working, which is like, a yeah, yeah.
00:45:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Nice. What happens when you crash it?
00:45:50
John Saunders
ah It's got physical stops.
00:45:52
johngrimsmo
Okay. Just stops here.
00:45:53
John Saunders
Sorry, yeah, yeah.
00:45:54
johngrimsmo
No, that's cool, man.
00:45:56
John Saunders
I probably should, whatever, I'll figure it out.
00:45:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:59
John Saunders
Yeah, just, life's great, it's awesome.
00:46:02
johngrimsmo
Amazing.
00:46:03
John Saunders
Well, here i'll just I'll just share it now. Sorry, it's not a secret.
00:46:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah, please.
00:46:07
John Saunders
I built a, I took a 36 or 40 inch DRO mounted 12 inch screen on it, wrote code or Claude wrote code that scrapes my Apple photos, which have tag testing. And basically you walk up to it and as you slide the screen left or right, it jogs through memories of our lives. And you can then filter it by people, places, events, et cetera. And it's been up now for four or five days in the house. And like, it's just intoxicating because you walk by it and you were just like, well, I'm going to move it over a little left or a little right. And like, there's more, there's more, I'm trying to feel out where we go with it. Like, do I have it turned on and off automatically?
00:46:46
John Saunders
Do I want it to ever rotate a picture on its own? But it's actually really cool.
00:46:49
johngrimsmo
i
00:46:49
John Saunders
Like, I like that you interact with it and you just slide it left and it shows you chronologically photos of our lives.
00:46:56
johngrimsmo
Yes, that's something I've never heard of before. Like you hear of the picture frames that rotate through the pictures that's been around forever.
00:47:01
John Saunders
Yep.
00:47:03
johngrimsmo
They now have it on ePaper, which is kind of cool, it takes no power. And it can, yeah, they have like like color ePaper displays that will last for a year and update every day or whatever you want.
00:47:07
John Saunders
lee
00:47:14
John Saunders
No kidding.
00:47:15
johngrimsmo
So that's kind of cool too.
00:47:16
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:47:16
johngrimsmo
But I love i love the solution that you came up with for that because like you said, it's interactive. you know, it's the same picture. You just want to like scoot it over a little bit and you get another perspective, right?
00:47:27
johngrimsmo
And the albums thing is really interesting. What do you guys tend to gravitate more towards?
00:47:30
John Saunders
yeah
00:47:32
johngrimsmo
Like like family stuff that's just there? What do you keep on display?
00:47:35
John Saunders
So um I bought a Mac mini, which coincidentally showed up yesterday. they They told me it was gonna take over a month because of OpenClaw. And I wanted it up and running because, actually to come full circle on this episode, tenacity.
00:47:48
John Saunders
I was like, if I stop working on this, I will lose.
00:47:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:47:51
John Saunders
I probably wouldn't because i really love this project, but What I did is I asked Claude, was like, hey, I'm a month out of my Mac Mini. How hard would it be to use a Raspberry Pi instead of the Mac Mini, um which needs to feed the video. It needs to feed the monitor of the pictures. It needs to also interact with the Pico that reads the DRO's quad. What's it? Quadratic?
00:48:14
johngrimsmo
Quadrencher.
00:48:14
John Saunders
Quadrature?
00:48:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:48:15
John Saunders
Yes, Quadrature encoder to to move your left, right. And Claude like, yeah, no big deal. So the only downside to the current setup is, well, there's two downsides. Number one, the Raspberry Pi is quite slow.
00:48:26
John Saunders
So when you move the screen, it's not snappy like my MacBook was when I had it testing on.
00:48:28
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:48:32
John Saunders
But yeah I also have just two static folders right now of two trips we took. So you don't have that rich history to choose from. So I can't answer your question yet because I'm literally waiting for my Mac to sync, finish syncing up all the photos.
00:48:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yes. Cool, man.
00:48:47
John Saunders
Thank you. It's fun.
00:48:48
johngrimsmo
See, projects like that bring you joy. And you have you have all the tenacity in the world because you're happy doing it.
00:48:52
John Saunders
100%. I need those projects though. that like it, cause it's everything, it's code, it's Mac, it's hardware, it's ma machine, it's a DRO, it's putting brackets on 3D print. And I'm also then running the cables behind the woodworking and behind the drywall. I've got them going out of my basement so you don't see anything. I've got um the, trying to figure out the cable chain because it does have to drag cables. Actually the only thing that sucks is that the DRO, the reader's in the head. So the head has to travel with the cables.
00:49:25
John Saunders
Now the USB-C to power the monitor is going travel either way. So I wasn't going to be able to get it to be cable less. Um, but the current state is I, the DRO sliding it, even though I have UHNW tape on it, it's still, it's not good enough.
00:49:42
John Saunders
I need to go full grip. So on it, so I'm leaving it there for now because it works, but I want you to be able to walk up to it and it just effortlessly slide it almost like air bearing.
00:49:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:52
John Saunders
Sorry.
00:49:52
johngrimsmo
do Do you have a compressor at home?
00:49:56
John Saunders
it's not I can't have that be the answer, John.
00:49:58
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:49:58
John Saunders
um I'm thinking I can remachine. I asked chat. the
00:50:03
johngrimsmo
Like linear rail.
00:50:03
John Saunders
you Yeah. I'll figure out.
00:50:09
johngrimsmo
You can get a ah surplus linear rail from eBay or...
00:50:09
John Saunders
I'll chew on
00:50:13
johngrimsmo
I've got a pretty long one.
00:50:13
John Saunders
it.
00:50:13
johngrimsmo
It's not quite 36, maybe 36 inches. um
00:50:16
John Saunders
Yeah, linear rails are not expensive. and
00:50:19
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:50:19
John Saunders
yeah Okay, the thing is, i you still would have to have the DRO...
00:50:24
John Saunders
The DRO rod only has a glass, no, I assume it's glass, strip in it.
00:50:24
johngrimsmo
oh yeah
00:50:29
John Saunders
I can move that into my own thing. So I can machine or 3D print my own assembly for it. Or I thought about even exposing the scale because it could look cool if there's an artistic side of it.
00:50:39
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah. Lots of ways to do it. It's awesome, man.
00:50:46
John Saunders
Air bearing is a really good idea. i cannot have a good presence.
00:50:47
johngrimsmo
right Actually, it it wouldn't because if it was not perfectly level, it would just move and you would never stop it anywhere.
00:50:55
John Saunders
oh Oh, that's true.
00:50:56
johngrimsmo
You need friction.
00:50:58
John Saunders
Interesting.
00:50:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:50:59
John Saunders
Huh. Huh.
00:51:02
johngrimsmo
What is your distance to next photo?
00:51:02
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:51:05
johngrimsmo
Like you're moving an inch to get the next photo.
00:51:08
John Saunders
No, it's um it's something like, well, if you go to the, i have like 70,000 photos. So that's something like 2000 photos a millimeter. if If you have the whole, I put it until you filter it down.
00:51:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah. yeah then
00:51:21
John Saunders
um And to some extent that was okay because I don't want it to be the thing where you, have oh, like I want to find a photo me in Grimso at IMTS that year. Like, it's kind of not that. Now you and I, I don't have, I probably have hundreds of photos with you, not thousands.
00:51:35
John Saunders
So it's like you and i I could probably load the album with me and you and find us somewhere.
00:51:38
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:51:38
John Saunders
But the point is to kind of have some aspect of randomness that you can still control. Like, Hey, I want to see pictures with my kids or I want to see the dogs or I want to see whatever, but not to find a specific vote.
00:51:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah. It's beautiful. Interesting.
00:51:52
John Saunders
Cause it's, it's gotta be, it's supposed to evoke memories out of you. It controls you. You don't control it.
00:51:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:51:59
John Saunders
Does that make sense?
00:51:59
johngrimsmo
Ooh. Yeah. Like i I would want to, I think, you know, scroll along until I see one that I like and then I'd lose it. I'd be like, Oh, go back to that one. And then you wouldn't find it if it was too tight.
00:52:08
John Saunders
Yeah, exactly. But that's again, kind of the point.
00:52:11
johngrimsmo
But maybe it's fine. Maybe it's fine. Yeah.
00:52:13
John Saunders
I don't want it to be like a Tommy top thing where it's like, oh i want to show you this picture. Like you can't do that. You can bring up a trip like, Hey, we went, my family went out and we went and visited Amish.
00:52:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:52:22
John Saunders
Let's scroll through that. Like, let's leave that album up and let's see those memories we've made.
00:52:24
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:52:26
John Saunders
Not like, no, i want to find this picture.
00:52:28
johngrimsmo
yeah that's different that's different so cool all right man see you next week okay say bye
00:52:29
John Saunders
Cause that's, i don't know. Yeah.
00:52:33
John Saunders
Thank you.
00:52:36
John Saunders
see next week. Tanya, to you.