Digital Disconnection vs Real World Risks (with special guest Nathan Iles)

Transcript

Speaker: I was talking to someone recently about how most people implicitly think they're going to die young forever until one day they don't. And suddenly it's like, I should brush my teeth twice a day.

Speaker: Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avromenko. And this week, making his record-setting third appearance is brain-bent frontman and dear friend of mine, Nathan Iles.

Speaker: Nate and I discuss everything from my latent sun paranoia to people who say things like sports ball and navigating massive life pivots while also opening for Weedas.

Speaker: all that and so much more. As always, our conversation goes everywhere, so it is time to lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with the Nathan Iles here on Friendless.

Speaker: Well, ah back with me this week is returning guest. Now, remind me, is this your second or your third? I feel like this is your third time. This is my third time. Oh, I think you are setting the record. I think this is i think you're the first threefer.

Speaker: I think my first one's lost to the sands of time. I think maybe yeah your channel changed or something. But yeah, yeah, this hat trick for me. Fuck yeah. All right, we're gonna do the we're doing the Gordie Howe hat trick here.

Speaker: The one and only Nathan Isle. How the hell are you today? I'm in Alberta, and it's it's like not actually 1,000 degrees, but it feels like that. And also, my body just runs really hot in general. So yeah currently, my house is like a vampire cave. I've blacked out all the windows to keep the sun out as much as possible.

Speaker: I've just been huddled inside playing Elden Ring for like three days. That's been... And um I can feel all the color leaving my skin, which is the goal. so I can't decide. You know, i got really i got really skin cancer paranoid this year because for for, you know, the last, basically every summer I can remember, I have gotten like at least one really bad sunburn, right? Like, like just like,

Speaker: completely forgot to put on cream for whatever reason and then the next day I'm just like I'm sober you know like I've I've fucked up every year of my adult life and and I saw these photos of like skin doctors at a at like a conference in Hawaii or it was like Hawaii or Mexico or something like that they were at a resort and they were all wearing like hoodies with their hoods up and like face masks, even though they're like on the lounge chairs and shit, right? I was like, well, fuck.

Speaker: If like real skin doctors, if this is what they are doing, then like I've fucked up. But I just love being in the sun so much. So I can't decide like, do I want to risk it for the sun or not? You know?

Speaker: I was talking to someone recently about how most people implicitly think they're going to die young forever until one day they don't. And suddenly it's like, I should brush my teeth twice a day. Right? and Because I had the same thing in the last year.

Speaker: About a year ago, I was like, man, I should have a skincare routine. I should like get lotion for my, you know, all this shit that I did not care about through all my 20s and early 30s. Right. So and I'm glad to be on that side of it instead of the other side of it. But yeah, it is.

Speaker: I mean, I also I've been paranoid about the sun because I just got a couple new tattoos and they're colorful and nothing worse for that than the high UV index. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. But I'm getting I'm getting paranoid about it too. I just bought some high SPF.

Speaker: But this is like this is what becomes important. I literally, I spend time in the store looking at different sunscreens. This matters to me now. And I know, yes, okay, maybe not riveting audio, but like this is important stuff, you know? My my let my latest come down from...

Speaker: the the ledge of the day routine has been having a cold shower and then doing a face mask and watching an episode of Better Call Saul. been doing that like every night the last week. I think often about Bruce McCullough has a line in one of his solo shows where he talks about how he changes his socks midday because he likes to treat himself well. You know? That's, I love that.

Speaker: I love that. Right? having having because i've worked various construction jobs and stuff and i feel like taking your socks off for is the is the male equivalent of what i imagine taking bras off is like for for people who breasts because exactly yeah that and i don't it's that release of all the sweat and everything it's just it's amazing so yeah middle of the day i'm super down with that i'm super right yeah it feels and i started doing it after after after hearing that and yeah it felt great you know i stopped doing it mostly because you know i don't deserve good things but but It's a lot of laundry. but

Speaker: But i want you I want to kind of catch. Let's let's say let's do a little like catch up the listener for for for people who may not be familiar with you. Give us just just a very brief breakneck. Where are you at these days in life? What are you up to? Who the hell are you right now?

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I wanted to come back on the show. I mean, a we ran into each other recently in person. Yes. That's always a treat. And then I was like, we should catch up. And then I was like, we should just record us catching up. There's content, I guess.

Speaker: Yeah. you yeah I mean, you really did me. That does do me the favor because it's like I never want to be the one who says that. But when someone else is the one offering it, I'm like, yes, by all means, come on in. you know Yeah.

Speaker: But also, I mean, like, I have the kind of cool friendship with you where I reconnected. It seems like I've reconnected with you in a strong way during, like, really pivotal moments in my life. but The first time I was on the show, ah you were just piloting the friendless concept. Are you still doing the thing where you're deleting people on Facebook or is that long gone? Not really. that's basically yeah That part's basically gone, yeah. So that was that was your gen show when I was initially on it. And I had just gone through a huge friendship meltdown experience.

Speaker: You know, remember that there was a huge pivotal moment. And then the last time was on the show was right when I just decided to go back to school. i was doing like career pivots. Right. And now I'm considering like my third career pivots and my marriage ended amicably, but still, you know, I'm single now or I want, I'm seeing someone now, but I'm not married basically now. And, and it's just, it's, it's just crazy. And then lo and beholds,

Speaker: James Evermanco just kind of floats in, you know, I'm getting to the point where every time I see you in person, like if I run into you or I get the urge to not that we not that we don't talk, but when I get the urge to start talking to more regularly, he's like, OK, what's going on? What's the next?

Speaker: What the fuck is going to happen next? I don't I have no idea. Right. I'm i'm your I'm your malnourished Jiminy Cricket, you know, i'm just yeah showing up and being like, all right, well, I don't know. But ok I think that we should think about this, you know.

Speaker: I also was thinking about the show because it was your initial genesis of the show. And obviously it's grown beyond that, which is cool. I've been seeing you do live events and stuff like live recordings. It's awesome. But I mean, I recently...

Speaker: for the month of March, I was sober and I deleted all social media off my phone. I didn't delete my accounts, but deleted the apps, right? And that ruined me your show because it really threw into focus people who are actually are in my life in a real way. Folks like you, people who actually I connect with, folks like you or whatever, who actually reach out, who whatever, right? Because...

Speaker: I mean, realizing the kind of detritus of folks that you meet once in a party that you collect in like a net on Instagram or whatever, and then you don't talk. And then it's like, I mean, like this guy who I occasionally see around town is posting some really, really intimate stuff about his depression and whatnot. Right. And it's like sad, but I'm also like, man, why do I.

Speaker: know this much about this person that I'm not really friends with. Right. And my life was really nice. So was not drinking. You came to mind in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting thing. This idea, it's something that I've been I've been really exploring a lot recently is with with sort of how do I want to show up, you know, on social media and how do I want to engage with social media? Because it's like, on one hand, i think it's very I think the concept was really interesting at first to be like, yeah, you can stay connected with all these people.

Speaker: But what we what I think we, at least for me, what I'm coming to realize is that the more we eliminate friction from our lives, the less life there actually is. Because, you know, the the the idea, it's what I used to always say to my to my students is, you know, friction is good. Friction is literally the cause of life. Friction is heat, right? The only place...

Speaker: that has no friction is a vacuum and you can't survive in a vacuum. So this idea of social media and just technology in general sort of greasing up our lives and simplifying our lives is actually making our lives lesser and we're engaging less.

Speaker: And at the same time too, by compiling this list of these people, I think it's creating a new form of grief and a new form of stress and pressure that didn't exist before because back the day you'd be like, oh yeah, I met someone at a party and they were great and I'll never see them again.

Speaker: And now we're like, I met this person in 2005 and I've never seen them in person again, but I know the ups and downs of their their mental health, of their relationship status. is I know the names of their three children, you know, and, and,

Speaker: it kind of creates this like, am I a bad person for not staying in touch with them more? You know, I know for me, it creates a type of grief of like, well, why why didn't they want to be my friend?

Speaker: Right? You know, why didn't they stay in touch? It must have been my fault, you know? Friendship FOMO, for sure. Exactly. I was bullied a lot in elementary. There was a period of my life where my cat was my only friend growing up. And, you know, i have i'm i have I'm blessed to have lots of friends, too many friends. There's too many folks, like you're saying, in my life that are really cool. And for years, as I mean, I still feel it sometimes. I felt the...

Speaker: Yeah, that grieving of, man, we could be such awesome friends, right? But we don't have time where your life doesn't really fit into mine or our interests or you have a kid or whatever, right? Our interests don't align that way. Weirdly, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and talk about how awesome the pandemic was, but the pandemic did teach me two close my to value my closer circle and be by myself more because I definitely would kind of overdose on being outgoing and I still do sometimes but you know I've i've come to realize the value of my own company and you know a few very

Speaker: you know, close friendships. Like, I'd call you a close friend, but, you know, we don't talk all time. We'll go months sometimes not talking, but it's just, you know, there's history. We have that kind of friendship where it evolves and whatnot, which I think is really cool. And just accepting that instead of... It would be different if we lived in the same city. Like, it's... ah Real friendships grow and change and whatever, right? my ah My oldest in the world, his name's Lucas. We've friends for, like, almost 25 years now, and...

Speaker: We'll just, it's like phases. there's There's been times where I don't talk to him or see him for months and other times where he's crashing on my couch every other day, you know? And it really depends on his bandwidth because he goes through stuff mentally. So do I, right? Where we're at with work or whatever, right? But that's part of why he's one of my oldest friends in the world because it has that flexibility, I guess. And yeah, like social media with some random person You met, I mean, you don't know if there's flexibility because you've never stress tested it because you don't know each other, really. You you did a line at a party once 25 years ago or something. No, and i think you I think you nailed it. is We don't need that shame. We don't need that that that pressure, you know? And I think, too, on the other hand,

Speaker: I think remembering that, you know, ah so this is actually something that I've been I've been reading about and studying is this idea of like, how do we create consistent relationships and how do we create consistent friendships and and and how do we go from being an acquaintance to a friend to a close friend and these things?

Speaker: It's funny you should bring up this idea of like we can go distance. You can't do that early though, right? The reason we can do that now is because at the beginning of our relationship, we were seeing each other really consistently. But even past work, we were seeing each other, right? We were hanging out and we were doing consistent hangs. Once that depth is in place, then you can drift in and out, you know? But I think what people are kind of forgetting, I know what I have forgotten, but, and what I've kind of ignored at times is this idea of like,

Speaker: I want close, deep friends now. But all I have around me are either strangers or the beginnings of acquaintances. But I want to treat them like deep friends, which means am only going to text them once a month or I'm only going to reach out to them in once in a blue moon. When it's like, no, no, no. If you want new, deep friends, you have to...

Speaker: who did not work at the outset, you know? You've had to navigate. I mean, I've never relocated the way you have. I imagine that's a whole process whenever you do live in a different city, right? And you've done that a few times as as an adult, right? So you you're from Toronto, right? I'm from Calgary originally. I grew up in Calgary and then I went to Victoria and then Vancouver and then back to Calgary. That's where we met. And then Saskatoon. And now I'm back in Vancouver. So yeah, just like Western Canada is your... year your your your domain but yeah i don't i've lived in calgary my whole life so even though yeah that's i mean yeah it's when you land a new city you know you for example you and i can't hang out really anymore unless we do it virtually which is depressing or one it's not one another city so having to develop those over and over and over again in a new city i can imagine it's crazy yeah it's a it's a funny thing it's interesting that you see it in that lens i've often seen it more as like

Speaker: Because of the reasons I'm moving cities often aren't for the most positive reasons. Sure. And so it's like often I'm seeing it as who I'm losing, not who I'm gaining. You know what I mean? But I think that's my own shitty framework. You know what i mean? I think that's my own my own brain structure.

Speaker: being a dick to itself. You know what i mean? And i actually really appreciate your perspective, and I like that better, of like of like the skill it takes to to take on. but But enough about me for now. I'm sure I'll find other ways to slot my own opinions in here there. you were...

Speaker: but you were So when when we saw each other, let's actually, let's set the scene here because we didn't just run into each other. you You came into town and you were opening for Weedus with your band, Brain Bent. And let me tell you, you know, no...

Speaker: Actually, you know what? Some shade. Some shade to Weedus. You were the best part of the show. The other openers were awesome, too. They were great. they were They were really fun, you know, kind of like Taking Back Sunday throwback style.

Speaker: But Weedus felt like they were resentful of the audience in a way that I was like, if you hate your audience this much, why are why are we even doing this, you know? But you had...

Speaker: but you had Reached out to me to see if there was you know if you like could find you a place to stay. Unfortunately, I couldn't, but I came to the show anyway, and it was just such a treat to not only see you in person, but it was such a treat to see you perform.

Speaker: That was the first time I ever got to see your your band play. And I'm wondering if you could... if you could i Because I think the last time we you were on the show, I think you had just started... brain bent. I don't think it had been going on very long. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the progression of your music and what you've been doing with it.

Speaker: Yeah, that stage is big. It was the Pearl, right? yeah I had also been in a car for like 10 hours, less than like 10 hours prior to that. yeah Yeah, well that like brain bent. Yeah, it started like 2020 in the ashes of ah of a band. I was in before it ended and one the other members still want to play music.

Speaker: My now former wife joined on synth and you know, we still play. We're still doing that together right now, which is interesting and and cool. And you know, just navigating that's been been a whole thing. But yeah, it's doing the Hollywood back thing is is is what you're doing.

Speaker: People say that a lot, right? And I'm like, well, yeah, but also, i don't know. I don't think we have the, we don't have the venom for each other that Lindsay Buckingham and and Stevie Nicks has. And also yeah they were like millionaire recording artists at that point. Right. True. True. And also it's the beef continues from what I understand. i think Lindsay got kicked out of the flu of Mac like recently, like four or five years ago. Oh shit. Yeah, I'm guessing the tension flared up again. you know for i didn't know they were still playing. i I thought he was dead. I don't know. They came to Calgary. And so, okay, Rumors is one of my favorite albums of all time, easily. So is Tusk. And they came to Calgary like four or five years ago, I think. or Yeah, it was right after the pandemic when things were opening.

Speaker: And I wanted to go, but tickets were very expensive. And also at this point, Lindsey Buckingham had been kicked out. So I was kind of like, is it really Fleetwood Mac? look I don't know. Whatever. Right. So I know my sister-in-law went because she also loves Fleetwood Mac. She got me a shirt.

Speaker: I regret it every day ever since. I should have gone. Just should just fuck it. You know, it's maxed out the credit card or something. I don't know. We're running out of chances to see. these older bands, right? This is why I flew to Oakland last summer to see Devo, who's one of my favorite bands ever, right? But like those dudes are in their mid-70s and they still sound good, but I'm running out of time comes for us all, right? so um It was cool to get that opportunity because we've been wanting to Expand beyond Calgary. Like, I'm not going to say we've conquered Calgary, but, you know, like we we just want new people to hear us and see us. And last year at Sled Island, we got to play at the Palace, which is a comparable size to the Pearl, opening for a a band from Japan called Otoboke Beaver at Sled Island.

Speaker: Fuck yeah. And that was that was really cool and surreal. And so, and yeah, and just the next step in in a project like that is getting some road miles in. And the weirdest thing happened because we... In 2024, we did a mini tour with this band from Australia called Dune Rats.

Speaker: And they're they're like a Blink-182 kind of like heart on the sleeve pop punk band. And it was fun. And then the guy who put together that tour really liked us. So then he offered us the weedest thing. And it's funny. I remember when he... His name is John Kennedy. Everyone calls him JFK, which is funny. But he offered us the gig. And I was like, sure, yeah. I mean...

Speaker: Weedus has heard us, right? like It just seemed like such a weird... Because, you know, on the on the very good chance your listeners haven't heard us, we're like a weird post-punk, like, loud, abrasive band. And Weedus is Teenage Dirtbag, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: But I was like, immediately, I was like, hell yeah, let's we have to do that. It's... it's Yeah, it was really cool. and And we grew... It's funny, that first show... They were polite, like the road crew and everything was really polite, but also they had never met us before or were these locals from Canada, whatever. So there was a bit of a professional distance. We met the tour manager.

Speaker: He was like, hey I'm Cam. Here's your here's your sticker. He didn't know we were on the tour with him. So then later he gave us a badge to keep for the week. right But then just doing consecutive dates, we weren't sharing a bus with them or anything, but we just see each other every day. And and by the end of the tour, we were like hugging each other and shooting the shit. And me and the tour manager and their merch guy are all baseball fans.

Speaker: We're all like different teams. So the merch guy was in the Mets and Cam was into the Mariners and I'm a Jays fan. And so that was really kind of what got us tighter. And yeah, it was just it was cool. I really wish I mean, in an ideal world, that's what I do for a living. I i really felt at home.

Speaker: on the road like I loved touring and playing my music and in fact if I could just do that and make enough money to feed myself and you know have somewhere to come home to I would do that in a heartbeat but you know that's not really the reality for most for the majority of musicians now which sucks but we made it happen and I'm proud of that I'm i'm stoked you were there that was I was it was it really meant a lot that you came out Yeah, I mean, it was amazing shows. yeah I don't mean to just completely slag off Uedis, but it was just funny. The energy of young bands versus a band that's just like, okay, I know and why you're here. you know Let me tell you, we took bets before the tour on how many times we would hear a Teenage Dirtbag. Because we did seven shows with them.

Speaker: We heard it. If you're counting when they did Christmas dirtbag, a few bars of that, we heard it like close to 20 times that week between their sound checks, the shows, and then doing a few bars of Christmas dirtbag.

Speaker: yeah I'm still not sick of that song, though. so They wrote, like, Brendan, the the singer, like he wrote a really good fucking song. That's a good fucking... And then i was listening to that whole album. I'd never listened that whole album before i think he heard something about it. It's a great album. like It's a really good album. yeah yeah I like that song, Wannabe Gangster. So it's funny. I knew...

Speaker: asshole, punk rock, teenage Nathan. I knew they had a song called wanna be dirt wannabe gangster. And I was always like, that's fucking lame and cringe and whatever. And that song's beautiful. Like when they play a live with the female back singers, one of them is Brendan's partner.

Speaker: Just beautiful harmonies while they're singing wannabe gangster, you know, like it's just, yeah. Yeah, it was. Well, that's what I was trying to say to you at the start of the show when you were, you know, we were hanging out between sets and you were like, yeah, I don't know why they picked us. And I was like, oh, well, you know, you're saying, have they heard you? But it's like, have you heard the album? Because like their the deepest stuff is way more in line with what you do. You know, yeah I think for you I think that like bitterness you're detecting. I think it's. yeah I think hear me out. I think maybe it's it like Brendan's Gen X. And I feel like there's a real, I mean, you know, what was that movie reality bites? Like there's a real generational snarkiness with Gen X. And I mean, I mean that with so much love, you know, yeah one of my best friends, Ben blue, he was Gen X. He passed away last year, but he had that too. He just had like almost a,

Speaker: I don't know. Like, I don't know. It's that's well he's a really nice guy. he's a He's a really nice guy. And he was he was psyched to be doing that. I'm like, yeah, man, yeah like if i if I had a hit like that, I would milk that shit into the fucking ground. You have no idea. yeah I would I wouldn't be on this podcast with you. I'd be in fucking London playing teenage dirtbag to people again. Right.

Speaker: I think we often only know this in retrospect, though, but it's like I don't think Gen X. knew how good they had it, right? yeah you know yeah Because they they were the last generation that had any kind of stability. They were the last generation that was basically profiting off of the economic boom that came out of World War II.

Speaker: And so you know you look at Gen X art and it's like, I'm so miserable. my My steady job that pays me a living. Exactly, right? Or Fight Club or all these things. They're just like, ah my apartment that I bought with my money from blah, blah, blah. And it's like, i'm so I'm so upset about having a stable income with options in life and I'll be able to retire. you know And they just like had to find something to be angry about, right? And that led to some really incredible art and that also led to some insufferable people. you know And I think that i think that that that attitude that pervades that generation

Speaker: is I shit on Gen X a lot, I'll be honest. I think that that that attitude is sort of the distillation of the the boomer entitlement. And for some reason, Gen X doesn't catch as many strays as boomers do, and I don't know why.

Speaker: But at the same time, too, you know Gen x houses some of my favorite artists of all time. So it's it's tough to you know paint anybody with with too broad a stroke, right?

Speaker: It's hard for you. It's funny. Like, I feel like that bitterness and cynicism whenever is born out of privilege, like you're saying. Right. Exactly. And so, you know, like I wasn't exposed to that a lot. it's like my mother, she had me young. She's in her 50s. So she's Gen X. Right.

Speaker: None of that with her. But also like she was broke raising two kids, one of them a cancer. Like she didn't really have any time. Basically, like my mom. to stay sane and raise us in a, she couldn't be cynical. She couldn't like have this snarky, like holier than thou attitude. She had to just keep thugging it out all the time. Right. And so, yeah, when I do encounter that sometimes other people's parents or yeah, musicians or whatever, my friend, my buddy, Ben, he was 49 when he passed away and he was, he was such an awesome positive guy. mean, he'd have moments, like whenever I talk about sports, Or whatever. When you're talking about sports, you go, ooh, sports ball. Who watches that? right That kind of bullshit. right and it's like ah yeah And shut the fuck up. Come on. yeah ah right anytime Anybody who still in the modern day uses terms like sports ball or like pretends like to not understand how a sport works, like it's just like, okay, just like...

Speaker: Take two steps back and literally fuck your own face. I've encountered this a few times because I got into baseball last summer. Yeah. a real way. And I mean, I was like that. i was a theater kid. Like that was a pretty for pervasive attitude. Right. And I've read it to few people who almost like.

Speaker: have this disbelief that I'm into that. And I'm like, yeah, like how is it any different than being into fucking Game of Thrones or whatever? For me, it was like I had such a fucked up summer. And then the Jays in 2025 had a generational run around the time I was having a super fucked up summer.

Speaker: And baseball was just the perfect way to disassociate because it had nothing to do with my life or my job or my relationship or anything. And it's so high stakes, but it's also not high stakes. It's a fucking children's game, right? like yeah You can get really invested in it, but it's not the end of the world. Like the Jays lost in a heartbreaking way. Whatever. sure Life goes on, right? Yeah.

Speaker: But a dear friend of mine, Lee, who's been on the show, one of my best friends in Vancouver, we had this epiphany about all sports and we still laugh about it to this day because basically all sports and I love sports. I don't play sports. I'm bad at sports, but I love sports. I love baseball. i love basketball. I love hockey.

Speaker: But all sports are essentially break down. You can distill them down to I'm going to go there or I'm going to put this there. and And that's it. That's a sport. And it's and it's the best. it's like But it's like, it's babies. It's baby brain stuff. It's like, I'm going to take this and I'm going put you there.

Speaker: And somebody else is saying, no, you're not. and And it's like, it's so simple to understand. And it's so distilled. And yet, because of that simplicity, you can then like...

Speaker: apply, you can put as much drama or as much pressure as you want on it. you know It's why sports parents go insane when it's like your six-year-old can barely skate and you're losing your mind at referees.

Speaker: It's because it's how it's been constructed, right? Journey to find a sport I enjoyed. like i I've actually always liked baseball. I played Little League when i was a kid and I went to Cannons games here in Calgary all the time. Hell yeah. And then, yeah, it started when I was in New York two years ago. I saw a Mets game at Citi Field and had so much fun.

Speaker: And then, yeah, just sort of was following. script It's last year when I started actively watching games and learning the rules for real, you know. and And I enjoyed it. And then started, like, dipping my toes because I've never watched sports on a regular basis before. And what I found is it's rhythmic almost. It's finding the sport that works for your – whatever, your emotional rhythm because, like, baseball is really – it's like boring and then it's so exciting and it's boring and it's, so it's great.

Speaker: It's just really meditative almost like nothing happens and then everything's happening. Right. Whereas, you know, hockey I've come to enjoy, but hockey is overwhelming. Hockey is so fast all the time.

Speaker: Right. yeah And then football, I find slow as I don't enjoy football. I find football really, really stop and start and really, and also I don't really understand the rules, you know, i' so much I also, because I watched the Super Bowl last year, and it's the first time I've watched the Super Bowl in full, and apparently it was a historically boring Super Bowl to be watching. It was, yeah because the Patriots just got annihilated the entire game, basically. Football football is, I mean, I know hockey's bad for it, but football's,

Speaker: one of the sports I don't watch purely because of the head trauma that happens. CTE, yeah. like i just and And the way that the owners cover it up and exploit it, I just can't. I can't deal good about it. It has a real dude, bro. Vibe vibe is unquantifiable. But it is, yeah like, baseball's kind of goofy. like baseball. goof Baseball's goofy. Even, yeah I don't know, it's hard to get super serious about it, even when it's serious, right? well We're Canadian. Hockey's, like, cultural for us, right? So the Vancouver baseball team I forget what they're called. i always want to call them the Cannons.

Speaker: I think they're just called the Canadians. they're They're the Blue Jays' feeder like the feeder team. Oh, cool. and And we'll go watch them sometimes. And and but my friend my friend Katie always points out that they're the huggiest team in the league. that like like they just They're always like touching each other.

Speaker: And not just like the typical like butt slap, even though there's a lot of those. but But they're just like very touchy with each other. And they're very huggy in a way that you don't commonly see. sports teams behave. And it's so fun. It's so refreshing. I love it. And they all have their little, like they have their little theme songs that they walk out to. And, you it's, I mean, cause Seattle's just to hop and skip a jump for you. Right. So yes I was talking cam about, he was the tour manager for weedist and he's a man. He's from Washington. He's a massive Mariners fan.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. And he was saying how there's a real love-hate relationship. joke He's like, it's like siblings with Canadians in Seattle. Because whenever the Jays play the Mariners, half that fucking stadium is full of folks from Vancouver. Because it's way cheaper to do that than to fly all way out to fucking Toronto. right Exactly. yeah um And also, I also like the Mariners too. like it was Because they're such underdogs, right? Yeah. So it's funny, that World Series, like watching watching the Jays beat the Yankees was like watching the Death Star explode in Star Wars. It was so exciting. It was so amazing.

Speaker: i was at a bar. People were cheering. But watching them beat the Mariners, wasn't i wasn't as sights. Like, I was happy, but also, I like the Mariners. Like, I felt bad, when and especially because Cam is still mad George Springer got the home run that ultimately won.

Speaker: And there's all that history with them cheating, with, I think, the Astros, I think it was. Anyways, but... And that's the thing, too. It's like I was explaining this. I've been I've been dating someone recently. I was explaining this to recently. I was like, there's lore like that's lore. That's like world building, you know, this like decade long beef with this one player. Right. And it's it's so interesting. Right. But yeah. And yeah, football, it's.

Speaker: It's just a bit more dude bro-y. And yeah, it's also not as cultural a thing. i was also explaining this to the guys in the Wheatest Tour. i was like, Canada, all of a country cheers for one team. One team, right?

Speaker: So there's kind of a, like, for a hot minute, like you probably felt it, for a hot minute last fall, this country was together, man. We were all striked for the Blue Jays, right? yeah Yeah. And there's not, I mean, we have the CFL, I guess, but like, it's just not as much of a thing up here. Yeah, CFL is a whole other problem.

Speaker: ah gravity I just want to mention this because you mentioned the concussion thing. know you've watched a football game recently, but they they do have these new helmets to address that ostensibly, but they're bigger and it makes all the players look like Toad from Mario. It's really funny. You should you should go look up but some modern NFL players.

Speaker: I'm glad they exist, but yeah like they look hilarious. They do not look as cool and classic as the old helmets, but it means less brain injury, so win-win. Yeah. I mean, i think the problem there is that, like, by the time you're in the NFL, the damage is already done.

Speaker: Like, the human brain, at any point in their life, can only take so many hits to the head. and And we're making children do this. Like, basically, by the time they're NFL age, they're already...

Speaker: Fucked. You know, we've already ruined these, these, these boys, you know, so there's a real modern day. It's a real modern day Roman gladiator type. Big time. Big time. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Are you ready for Threshing Day? Join us at the book warehouse on Main Street to celebrate the midnight release of this new addition to the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros. From 10pm on Monday, September 28, celebrate all things Empyrean, culminating in the midnight release of the new book.

Speaker: Tickets are just $5 each and can be redeemed for credit towards a purchase that evening. There will be games, trivia, giveaways, and obviously the book itself the moment it's release eligible.

Speaker: If you're the kind of person who'd rather be up at midnight with a room full of strangers who love the same book than being at home alone, scrolling, or sleeping, then this is the event for you. Tickets available in-store or online.

Speaker: I'll drop the link in the show notes.

Speaker: Tell me a little bit about, you know... Right at the start interview, you were saying, and you've said this before, you know you were saying you you were looking forward to kind of like you know, unpacking some stuff with me. and i And I don't want to, like, turn on the guru-itis here. I don't want to, like, become your sage, you know.

Speaker: Sure. But where where do you find yourself getting most tripped up currently in this process, you know you know, of this kind of this new life that you are building for yourself? And and what's been going on for you around that?

Speaker: Well, I think... A lot of it's been fear. Just, you know, being afraid. Well, being afraid initially of of massive change, which happened. I mean, that's life. It happens.

Speaker: Frank Snatcher. That's life, right? It happens no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking last podcast. Henry does that, says that sometimes. jump No, I just, ah a lot of change happens. I'm not going to be all like,

Speaker: i'm not you know I'm not like a victim or whatever. I try to reframe my thinking around that. Things like happened in my life that are, you know, now it's different. And for a long time, I was afraid of that change. And now it's almost like I'm afraid of embracing and kind of relishing in the change, if that makes sense, right? Like I have moments where I'm starting to really enjoy things, not in comparison to my life before, but just on its own merits, right? And then I just get like afraid of that. It's almost like a it's almost like part of me is holding on to you know, the hope that the the clock will just turn backwards and everything is back to where it was, you know, back in 2024 or 2023, 2022, whatever. Right.

Speaker: And that's not, you know, I'm not an idiot. Like that's not going to happen and it shouldn't happen. Right. and But it's this weird, irrational thing. Right. I keep, I'll give an example. So I'm considering, I'm considering taking up a trade being electrician. Like i'm I'm considering doing that as a, right now, I think I was just starting to do this when I was last on here, but I'm the editor of a magazine.

Speaker: I still want to write, But i don't know, I'm considering some things that are AI proof. And also i like working with my hands, whatever, right? And there's a cool opportunity there that could, where I could make that happen through a friend, whatever, right? And it's been hard to...

Speaker: Because some folks I talk to about this and it's like I'm talking about listing the army or something that they're kind of like, ah, yeah, I guess. you know But then other people and myself find it exciting or think it's cool. or you know like it's It's almost surprising when someone's like, that's awesome. like that's you know That sounds super fun, right?

Speaker: And so it creates this weird holding pattern sometimes where I'm like afraid to just you know embrace the change and be even excited about it. right Because I spent a long time being all poor me, weepy about it. and Which, again, i'm like not I'm not... Things don't happen to you, right? it's It's just... Well, that's not true. I guess it can. Well, they do you do. I think that there's a really interesting balance to be struck there because I do find oftentimes...

Speaker: Someone's experience gets kind of brushed aside if they say, yeah this thing happened to me, you know, like, like, you know, I mean, case in point, like, I didn't participate in my ex-wife having an affair on with, I didn't participate. I didn't, you know, her accusing me of an affair that she was having.

Speaker: and and that I wasn't, that is a thing that was done to me. yeah Right. You know, and and I think that oftentimes there gets there's this messaging of like you're not allowed to say something was done because you're not allowed to be a victim. and Because to be a victim is to be weak. And how you decide to deal with it afterwards, I think, is more important. And what what I'm curious about, you know, I'm hearing you talk a lot about like what you are doing for yourself and with yourself. And that's great. And I think that that's, you know, obviously a very vital element. I'm curious, how are you or are you kind of mindfully fostering a community around yourself? Like, how are you how are you connecting yourself to the people around you right now?

Speaker: ive I've been lucky to have quite a few people be there for me through a lot in last year. And I've leaned heavily on that in like a variety of ways and continue to, right? You know, it's weird. I was talking to one of my closest friends in the world, Alan Johnson. I think you know him. And oh yeah yeah, like I wound up living with him and his partner for a couple months last summer, just when things were really kind of hitting the wall in my life. Right. And have moments where that was weirdly fun. And then I'd feel guilty for having fun doing that, like just being goofy ass roommates with with them or whatever. Right.

Speaker: But I remember having a conversation with him where he was saying, you know, it's kind of fucked up, but it is kind of sometimes it takes a lot of crazy shit to bring people close together or to like allow you allow you to allow people to be a better friend or or whatever. And I've noticed that definitely like with, you know, family, with friends, whatever. Right.

Speaker: It also throws in a focus who, you know, maybe isn't. I don't know if like it's telling when your gut just doesn't. lean on other people as much as others and it's not so much like they're a better or worse friend it's just like you know like how much help could you really be realistically in this and i don't want to i struggle like not wanting to be a burden or whatever on people right um i'm living by myself right now for the first time ever in my life like i you know eight went right from moving with my living with my parents live with my partner to whatever right and yeah like the last half a year

Speaker: And that's been cool. And that's also been hard. And then, yeah, I didn't catch myself in these moments where I'm really enjoying things that only happen because I'm living alone and I have that space to myself. And then feeling guilty for, you know, it's weird. it's It's like part of me doesn't want to accept. Part of me is, I guess, in maybe in denial, I guess, but not like a conscious part of me. Like intellectually, I'm i'm well aware of of and accepting of things, right? um And yeah, it's been cool to foster more intimacy, like emotionally with friends in general. Right.

Speaker: Yeah. Cause I never, i don't think I ever really thought of that, like beyond, you know, who you're sleeping with or romance or whatever. Right. So and I think that that really, I mean, yeah, I think my eyes really got opened up after my divorce, my eyes got opened up to how important friendship into intimacy can be, you know, and how it's in some ways,

Speaker: I don't know. It's hard to be like one is better than the other. i don't think that there is a way to quantify that. But like for me personally, I value... my friendship connections above my intimate connections, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's, I'm even, it's, it's weird. I mean, I find myself, I'm still friends with my ex, right? We both really still like and respect each other. And, you know, I really want, we want the best for each other really. And that's been its own navigation thing, right? It's, it's, it's a head trip.

Speaker: But like in a good way, you know, and and also but ultimately I've just been grateful that that's still a positive thing for both of us because yeah, it's it's just interesting. It's like degrees of friendship and who people are or where they can fit in your life, whatever, right?

Speaker: how How much they should, right? I don't think there needs to be like short of this relationship has to end because of like violence or danger. i don't think that there needs to be vitriol. I don't think there needs to be, I, i you know, ill wishes, you know, and I've never, I've never really understood how, you know, why people would hold onto some things where it's just like, yeah, you just didn't click whatever. That's fine.

Speaker: Yeah. What I think for me, like I, I'm the child of a really ugly divorce and, um, That vitriol you're describing is what I observed in my mother and my father towards each other, right? More so my mother, understandably, because she was the one raising us. And, and you know, like my brother, my father had part-time custody and whatever, right? But I didn't really have a, your brain kind of thinks that's how it always has to be, right? Yeah.

Speaker: And it doesn't. It's it's not. it's People change, and that's whatever, right? Like, it's it's it's, yeah. But I just never had that. It's what funny. Those things imprint on you when you're pretty young in terms of values or what you think is right or wrong or or whatever, right?

Speaker: And... And yeah, it's it's very complicated, as I'm sure you can relate to, James. Yeah, I, you know, I'm i'm trying to think of a way, because I don't want to, like, I don't want to make you just, like, talk through your trauma.

Speaker: But I'm also curious about, like, kind of a way to sort of tease out a little bit more than just sort of like, yeah, it's fucked up, you know? And I'm curious if you would be comfortable or willing to kind of, like, walk me through,

Speaker: like Right after you know you are getting your divorce, like what was the process like for you? like What were those those months? What was the drop like? And and how did you how did you get yourself through that?

Speaker: Sure. Well, we're separated. We're not divorced right now. I drank a lot. like was sir I crashed out. I spent like most of may June, July last year, like in a haze of and also trying to fix things, not just in that sense, just in general, in my life, like getting into, I get really into like impatient problem solver modes all the time, like on an emotional level.

Speaker: And as we were talking about offline, like that, that create that makes me get impatient about, you know, when I can see the things I want, like fixed right now. And you know, it's just not, it needs time or space or whatever. Right. Yeah.

Speaker: For me, it's been a lot of, i think just, I mean, i struggle I've struggled with guilt and shame a lot of my life over mistakes or actions, things I've done that I'm not like proud of or whatever. Right.

Speaker: And viewing myself as a failure as such, I think this is universal. I think lots of people like go through this, right? If you don't go through it, that's a problem. I think, you know what i mean? I think it's like, if you don't struggle with those things, I think that's a bigger red flag than if you do Yeah, exactly.

Speaker: I mean, just coming to terms with that and finding ways to accept that and try and use that as fuel to be better, right? Like, I won't get into details, but yeah I definitely did things that I'm not proud of in that relationship. And vice like it was just, there's only one bad person or whatever, right? it makes me disappointed myself when I think about it, right? And it's been trying to find that balancing process of like, acknowledging it, but not letting it, not just living in it, not like flagellating yourself. I've done that in the past too, just like,

Speaker: almost put the labor on other people to tell me that I'm not a piece of shit by calling myself a piece of shit over and over again. Right. Yep. Whereas it's like, fuck, this is so goofy. Do you know the video game God of War? Like the 2018 one? Yeah, I do. Okay. i In that game, at one point, Kratos says, don't be sorry, be better.

Speaker: You know? And that's been like my my mantra the last year. And I'm saying I'm like better, but I'm just trying to be better, right? or I think there's a similar thing in Spider-Man. I think i think in the Tobey Maguire movies, I think he says like, try to be better or something or whatever to Doc Ock, right?

Speaker: it's it's funny. It's spending one two' is perfect. It's incredible. And you remember when superhero movies were like cinematic. I watched, yeah I watched Superman recently, like the original one with my new girlfriend. And I was like, damn, this looks like a movie. Look at this.

Speaker: If they just cut out that weird tone poem where they're flying around, that movie would be perfect. Yeah, but even that's like, yeah that's it's so weird. It's weird that it's in there. And I love that. like make that It's so not corporately focused. Whatever. I could shit on Disney. I hate Disney. Anyways. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: Currently making plans with some friends to sneak in to see that shitty new Star Wars film because we don't want to pay money for it. but Yeah. I'm going to just wait and I'm going to download it. Yeah. I want to be able to slander it properly, you know? Super fair. Super fair. yeah um I mean, you read a lot in fiction. Like when you find things in fiction that resonate with you, there's this there's this book series I love called The First Law by Joe Abercrombie.

Speaker: I've read all three. They're amazing. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. So, so Logan, he's got two things. He says that I repeat in my head all the time. One is you have to be realistic about these things. And the other one is once you have a task better to do it, then live in the fear of it. Right.

Speaker: And the realistic thing, you know, it's not necessarily being cynical. It's just pragmatic. it's just like, not I've had to like with my life, my relationship, whatever I've had to do that, just accept what's in front of me instead of hold on to what I wish it was or, you know, whatever has changed or whatever. Right. Like be realistic about it. Right.

Speaker: also why I've considered like changing jobs again. Right. It's like, you know, I can wish the world's one way or I can accept the world as it is. Right. And yeah, I don't know. Just trying to navigate that and not be cynical, like not just not let it turn me into a fucking asshole. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, and that's just it too, isn't it? You know, this idea of like, and this is what I was meaning earlier about like, there's a balance between being like, everything's done to me or i do everything. Like there's, there's a middle ground, you know, you don't bring stuff into you, but how you respond to it and what you do with it is, is up to you. Right. And I think too, this idea of like, you know, I've worked with this, with my therapist, we've worked through this many, many, many times of like,

Speaker: well, this is how this situation played out before. And I'm about to be in a similar situation. So I'm expecting it to play out either just like it did or completely different or, you know, I'm making plans for it to...

Speaker: basically this moment to exist in response to this other moment. And it's about remembering that like, no, those two moments, the only thing that's the same is you. That's it. That's the only thing that's connecting those, those two things.

Speaker: So you can approach this new situation with brand new eyes if you want to, and you can just let it exist as itself, you know, and you don't have to make people live up to or be compared to,

Speaker: other people who they have no connection to, you know, like, like yeah the person I'm dating right now, I don't have to hold them accountable for how I was treated in past relationships or how I behaved in past relationships. You know, I think recognizing that, that, you know, it's, it's not about like, just forget the past, but it's about like, you don't have to live in the old loop if you don't want to. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, well, it's also, I i don't know how healthy this is, but it's something that I've i found a lot of strength in. i don't know. Look at the broad view of my life. I'll say like, you know, regrets, things I need to forgive myself for. I'm talking in general. I'm not talking about specifically in like my relationship or work. I'm talking all of it, like the whole stew. Things I've done as a teenager, I regret. Things I did with friendships, I regret. Whatever, right? Regret.

Speaker: It's whole thing. yeah And for years and years and years, my process was trying to figure out ways to like, quote unquote, forgive myself. Right. Yeah. And the last half a year, like what's what's what I found a lot of power in is not.

Speaker: Putting the idea of forgiveness away and just acknowledging that, like, you know, if I view like my guilts or regret or whatever, my self-criticism as like a. you know, a, like a goblin, like sits in a corner, right. Of your mind.

Speaker: You just accept that it's there and kind of let it in and instead use it as a guardrail, just like a, you know, and I don't want that in my life anymore. So it's, it's like, it's like signposts on how to like be a better person or how to you know do things that actually feel. And that's like helped me. Cause it's like, it doesn't go away. I tried. Maybe it's just the way I'm built. I just don't,

Speaker: I don't know. I just even when it's been years and I know I'm a different person and people forgive me whatever. I still hold on to like everything whenever I know. yeah, like fucked up. Right. Oh, yeah. So I get the idea of just letting go that. At least right now it's out of the cards, but just kind of acknowledging it and yeah, using it kind of as a tool.

Speaker: That's been really empowering for me, you know? Well, and I think that that builds into this idea of like what I'm far more interested in is accountability. like i don't I don't accept apologies. i but and Not because i I hold people too accountable or something, but because i I have no interest in them.

Speaker: I have no interest in apologies. I don't find apologies to be useful because like you can just say I'm sorry. That's all it is. That's what an apology is. Now, some people struggle with that, sure.

Speaker: i don't. I've said i've I'm sorry far too many times. And what I'm way more interested in is accountability. And what I've learned is that the only person you can hold accountable is yourself. You can't hold someone else accountable because accountability is true is about true reflection. you know So what you're saying, what I'm hearing is is exactly what I'm in line with, which is this idea of like, okay, I did that.

Speaker: Or that was done. Or whatever. Right. That's now done. that That's now yeah a thing that happened. There's no magical thinking. There's no code. There's no magic spell I can say that changes that. That's done. That has happened.

Speaker: Now, what am I going to learn from it? You know, was it how I showed up? Okay. How do I show up differently? Was it because of how someone else showed up? Okay. How do I make sure I'm not around people who are going to show up like that? Or how do I make sure that they don't behave like that? or Like, how am I going to hold myself accountable for my participation in that moment?

Speaker: yeah This is why I love the that fucking God of War game, dude. that did Because like I played that game for the first time not having played the old ones, and it was good. oh yeah But then i got COVID and sat on my couch in the early 2021 era-ish and played all the original games back-to-back while fever-brained and coughing.

Speaker: And Kratos does some fucked up things in those games. He's the worst. yeah So then when I replayed that one, it was it hit so much more. like All those moments of... you know because you've And like you've done them because you played the game. like You were complicit, I guess, in him murdering Zeus with his bare hands or whatever. But yeah, then it's like... Especially that and then the the game Ragnarok that comes after. it's It's like him coming to terms with everything you were just saying. like Being accountable and yeah just being better. And then and also like finding a way to...

Speaker: to not be like, i don't know, it's beautiful. It's like, I've never, I'm usually one who's like, I don't give a shit about story in games because usually I don't, right? But like, that shit is so powerful in that game. And I think a lot of men connect with that. Kratos is also this very stereotypically masculine character, right? And so to see him grapple with vulnerable emotions in an open way is cool. But that's more of that, please, in fiction, right?

Speaker: Going forward, what are you what's giving you hope these days? What are you what are you looking forward to? you know I know you've said this idea of like the career pivot, and I think that's great. If that's what you want to do, I think that's great. I don't think you need to be quite so afraid of writing things being co-opted by ai I think that there is still hope there, but I understand your your reluctance to go all, you know, push chips in on just writing. like I think it's a, yeah was know because you've made your living writing and editing and mentoring, right? And, you know, it's a melange of things. It's,

Speaker: Basically, I've learned it on like no matter what I'm going to write and get paid for it. Like I've proven I can do that. I like on in a variety of ways. You know, I know that's important to me. And again, I haven't fully decided whether or not what I do with my, you know, seven to three. It's more so that like I i want some like structure and I do miss not sitting at home all day.

Speaker: You know, like I do. yeah I don't think I'm built to be sitting in my house. and Don't get me a wrong. It's a massive privilege to get to work from home and stuff. Right. But, but it also sucks. It drives me up the wall sometimes. Right. Like I just have this weird, this is maybe not a healthy thought process, but i have this weird, like, you know, I need to earn my rest kind of mentality. And so I enjoy reading and watching movies and playing video games, all these things in voice sitting on a fucking couch. Right. And so when I've been sitting here in my office all day at work,

Speaker: quote unquote It doesn't feel like i was at work. So i do this I'm just not enjoying those things. right And also, it's kind of this weird pride thing where I'm like, I kind of want a job. I don't have to explain to people. I'm not saying I have a fake job or you or whatever, but you know they were like, what do you do? and they're like a digital marketing analyst researcher. And they're like, okay, so a fake job. just made za That makes us like, whereas someone goes, I'm a teacher. Cool. Got it. I know exactly what you do. Or I'm a baker. And it's kind of weird how these jobs that are really...

Speaker: foundational to the world are often so undervalued, right? Teachers is, and it's a crazy thing. I can't remember. do you have an education degree or? i don't, I don't. I've just, i just kind of backdoor.

Speaker: started i was teaching theater school and then I transitioned into other teaching and then fired from job. Well, it's just crazy. I considered doing that when I was younger and I have so many friends who did it. And it's arguably one of the most important professions in terms of like the world and society moving forward and you know generations to come. and I would argue conceptually we need less teachers only in the sense that because we need everyone to embody the the spirit of being a teacher. Like i think we're trying to we're socialized to be too gatekeeper-y about stuff. And we need to be basically being more like communal teachers with each other. Sure. It's more of a philosophical thing.

Speaker: Yeah, it's so undervalued, though. It's crazy. like Most my friends in that profession have pivoted to other professions. And not because they they love teaching, but it's like what's demanded of you versus, especially in Alberta. Oh, yeah. Fucking government here hates teachers, right? Exactly. Nurses and everything.

Speaker: I've been proud of myself. I've been impulsive. Basically, got a very unpleasant, in the span of a week, bunch of universe things happened that pointed me in this direction, kind of like thought process wise. The first one was I got some freelance marketing, copywriting work that I've been trying to land for months. It's it's like high paid and you know it's the kind of thing i would love to, I thought I would love to do and just make that my career in terms of you know, higher income and I got it and I hated doing it. It sucked. It was like, it was just, it was just very mindless. And also that was the kind of thing that some asshole with co-pilot could, you know, like obviously what I do is better, but you could shit something out that's good enough in that sense. Right.

Speaker: And then I got a pretty unpleasant email from the CRA. It turns out I owe them like $9,000 or something. I don't know. Like some number that like made me think my life's over for like 24 hours. Right. And i don't think it's like,

Speaker: How do I put this? When you've existed in like artists or left or i don't know, just like artsy sphere. i don't know. People just romanticize and get so attached to idea of just being broke all the time and struggling and like, and then sitting around drinking PBR and bitching about your your day job and stuff and whatever. And ah I'm just like,

Speaker: I just want to imagine a bit more for myself. Like, obviously I wish the world was different, but the world isn't. it the world The world is what it is. Right. And I'm just kind of like, don't want to be doing that in another 10 years. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm doing that right now.

Speaker: I'm very proud of what I've accomplished so far, but yeah, kind of, I don't think it's dumb to want some stability and just a clear path forward, I guess. Right. And, and yeah, I'm not any less of an artist or no one is for doing something to make sure they get fed and can afford their rent. Right. Yeah, some of my favorite poets were doctors, were lawyers, were, were you know, they they just wrote on the on the side, you know? I'm sure you heard this in theater school, like...

Speaker: a lot of like I had an acting teacher who was like, go work another job for a while. Go get some life experience. Go like go be a fucking carpenter. Go be a bait go work in a restaurant. right because especially if you i mean We can speak to this because we both worked in it. but yeah You can tell when someone's just done theater their whole life. like they're Just the way they talk as a character, the way what they bring to it. It's not any better or worse, but it does feel... That's, I think, where the theater kid stereotype comes from. Or the musical theater...

Speaker: You know, the way that way of speaking. and in that is it's It's high school acting to me. It's that like, hello, wife, get me up here. You know, like it's just very it's just like there's no there's no story behind the story because there's nothing to draw from other than, you know, a very active imagination, which is a great thing to have, but is not.

Speaker: rooted or anchored at anything. I mean, like Harrison Ford was a carpenter before he did Star Wars. Like he was fixed. I mean, they were actually, it's of my favorite tidbits. They were auditioning Kurt Russell to be Han Solo, which would have been awesome. I think it would have been great as Han Solo, but yeah,

Speaker: Harrison Ford was fixing windows or something in the space where they were doing auditions and then they had him audition. Right. But it's like, you know, I don't know when he talks in a movie. It just, it just, it just sounds like a guy. Like there's no like affect to it. Right. So I found that. Yeah. When I, the more I've like as a musician and an artist, whatever, the more I've,

Speaker: had other things in my life beyond it, the like the more I've brought to that craft. the My most like, my most fruitful songwriting happened when I was working this shit. One of the worst jobs I ever worked. I worked in a lumber yard when I was 16, 17 years old. Damn.

Speaker: Just loading lumber and like shingles into people's cars. Right. Yeah. And I used to like, i used to I wrote so many songs in my head. i have One day I remember where they literally told me to go sweep the parking lot. So it was just sweeping gravel in a parking lot in the baking fucking heat.

Speaker: It was the most like prison yard monotonous fucking job ever. and But I wrote so much music in my head as a reaction to that. Or like I worked in a call center briefly and i would I hated it so I'd kill time off the phones.

Speaker: by writing a script. Like I wrote a one-act play script while i was at that desk. this is go know this This is what technology has taken from us because by by robbing us our... our you know by by By demanding our attention and by demanding our perpetual attention, it's robbed us of space to imagine stuff. you know David Lynch calls it the room room to dream. right You have to give yourself room to dream about things.

Speaker: And when when instead of taking these beats between things in our day, we fill them with, let me check Instagram. Let me check my Instagram. game, my my farm game or whatever the fuck it is. right you know Let me refresh and refresh and refresh.

Speaker: It's robbing us of of those moments to to imagine what could be. my My therapist has got me doing this thing. it's it's It's not as painful as it sounds, but it's terrifying at first. But he he has me doing these things where I leave my phone at home and I go for a long ass walk, like like hours long walk.

Speaker: And basically his his intention is, he's he says, you have to get your brain so tired that you can start to think clearly, you know, because we're so yeah And me, I know my brain can just go bing, biging bing, bing, so fast, you know? Like before we started recording, I was already telling you about a thought, you know, I called it like thought G, and I hadn't even given you a or B yet you know? yeah I was so past it, right?

Speaker: And and the the more I can use my brain... the the stronger the output is later, you know? And like using your brain to check, checking Instagram is not using your brain, you know, even checking your email is not using your brain. Like it's like, and this is what I was saying about like, we need,

Speaker: We need friction our lives so badly. We need to get away from this, like, Apple Store of our lives thing, you know? And, like, everything needs to stop being smooth glass.

Speaker: It just... We need rough. We need... You know, yeah. When people need to be available less, I hate feeling like I'm on call for everyone at all times. You know? Like you just said, I used to do that when I was a teenager.

Speaker: would just leave. I'd go out and hang with my friends, and it was like... I was gone. You couldn't get in touch with me until... I got home. Right. Exactly. And that's also like doing remote work has kind of, I'm not expected to do this. Like I'm not, you know, this is totally a me thing, but it's really hard to unplug. It's hard not to want to get ahead on work stuff on my phone. It's hard not to want to respond to that chat message to solve a problem like right now, you know? And it's, yeah, it's static. It's noise. That's good way of putting it. And it's, it just makes me, so yeah, it's just overwhelming. I can only imagine because you have ADHD, right? Oh yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: I can only imagine that on top of, you know, what you deal with in your headspace every day. Right. Like that's just, that's overwhelming. That's a lot. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, God bless modern pharmaceuticals. Sure. Taking your, taking your cut methamphetamine or whatever every day. Yeah. Yeah. The big one for me is Seroquel. That's the brand. The drug is quetiapine. It's used in high dosage. It's an antipsychotic.

Speaker: That's like that plus Scott, my therapist. Those two things in tandem are like why I'm alive today. OK, this kind of relates to what we were talking about earlier. but that just Maybe you can relate to this because is that is this is that is this recent that you're medicating this you're treating this?

Speaker: Yeah. So I got diagnosed with BPD. Borderline or bipolar? borderline Borderline personality disorder. I got diagnosed with that or early 2024, I think.

Speaker: and And I got a quetiapine slash Seroquel prescription out of that was it the first thing. And then I also got put in a a DBT... therapy therapy group and did that for you know a year and it was it was revolutionary and like literally it like it re-wrinkled my brain sure yeah but yeah so that was yeah I started getting medicated for that yeah I think two just over two years yeah I entered a massive depressive spiral from the end of 2024 into 2025 that culminated in I had a night where I was ideating on suicide, which would have made me to get to speak to a therapist and my doctor.

Speaker: Long story short, I wound up prescribed Wellbutrin, which is a ah DSRI. It works on your dopamine and so your serotonin. Around the same time, a couple months prior to that, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and I started using a CPAP machine to sleep, right?

Speaker: So in the span of a year, I started medicating and treating I can't remember what the diagnosis is, but it was like major depressive something. That's what my doctor said I had. And the Wellbutrin, it doesn't solve that. The way described it is it doesn't make you happy, but it gives you that 10% push to get out of bed to go like go for a walk or meditate or whatever, right?

Speaker: But yeah, in the span of a year, i started treating that actively and then sleeping, like getting an actual eight hours for the probably the first time in my adult life. And it's been crazy. It's been really like insane in a good way because it's like,

Speaker: I'm like, man, is this the baseline you're supposed to be at? Because I feel like I've gone through... I've just felt way more fucked up and shitty. Or I feel like I should have been... I don't know. The things I've been going through in the last year feel way more intense than things gone through past years. And yet, I don't feel nearly as down as a baseline level.

Speaker: But then also... it's made me like that guilt and shame I was talking about, right? Like I'm like, how much, how many years did I lose not treating this and how many of my rash, shitty decisions or behavior or whatever? Not that it's like, you know, I'm not like excising myself of what I've done or whatever, but like how much it was influenced by a severely sleep deprived, depressed brain, right? Like, and it's hard not to,

Speaker: I mean, yeah I can't go back in time. So whatever the fuck. Right. I think about that with my with my ADHD diagnosis, with my autism diagnosis, with my with my BPD diagnosis, with all of them where it's like, OK, so none of those like developed recently. Those are all, yeah you know, BPD forms pre verbal. You know what i mean? Like so it's like I was fucked in the cradle. You know what i mean? Like, like, so it was like that shit was already there right from the get go. And it does, it doesn't forgive anything. It doesn't exonerate anything, but it does validate stuff and it does explain stuff, you know, and it's sort of like, oh okay, so that's what was going on. And I just didn't have the language for it, you know? Yeah. and a Major, major depressive disorder. That's what I had. I just remembered. but a house yeah,

Speaker: To me, it's not that that time was lost. To me, it's just that, you know, as I've said many times in the show, is this and and it's not even a thing that I coined, but it's just the idea of, like, you were working with tools that you had at the time.

Speaker: yeah Sure. That's what happened. and And just like we've been saying, like, okay, so now you have new new tools. So next time something comes up, what are you going to do different? Are you going to do different? You know, who knows? It's up to you, right?

Speaker: The sleep thing's crazy because I've had problems with, like, alcohol and substance abuse and stuff in the past and whatever. And it's how much that was coping with, like... ye Like lack of sleep can make you psychotic, right? It can really, I'm not saying I was, but it's just, i I literally feel like a different person than I was even two years ago. The gap between getting sober and then my Seroquel prescription was about a six, maybe eight month window in between.

Speaker: where I was just like waiting to talk to a psychologist, and it was the worst insomnia I had had in my life. I was going you know days without sleep because I wasn't self-medicating with drugs and alcohol, but I didn't have anything else to help with. It was just my brain, raw dog and reality. That's a lot. It sucked. Yeah, that and I did. I went fucking nuts.

Speaker: like that At six months, I was... certifiable it's been always been a running joke in my friend circles that i snore really loud and like my my former partner she would wear earplugs to bed often i'd get embarrassed about it whatever right it it took went on tour with my band brain bent and i slept in front of my drummer we shared it we crashed on a couch in edmonton and i woke up the next day and he was staring at me like i was i got a fucking knife in my chest or something like he looked horrified ah And i was like, what's up? And he's like, you should go to the doctor. You sound like you're choking in your sleep. I've been up all night afraid that you're going to die, basically.

Speaker: And it took someone external to point that out to make me like go and address it. And I always maybe had a feeling I had it, but I was afraid to... deal with it i didn't want to have to wear one of those fucking mask things to bed you know and i was like man i'm old now that's some old that's old person shit whatever which it's not it's fucking but yeah it's it's crazy like i went out when i got tested i had an awful like ah like awful like i think i was at 36 interruptions an hour which means 36 times an hour i'd wake up and my mind and it fucks your blood pressure up because your your your brain thinks you're choking and freaks out and and wakes you up you know

Speaker: And then, yeah, and that like my blood pressure, my blood oxygen was also fucked because of that. like you know i got like like It was a scary call when the sleep clinic called me. They were like, you need to start treating this. like You could die in your sleep. like This is really not good.

Speaker: Fuck. And then, yeah, like it took me about a year to really get used to sleeping with that thing. That fucked in my head. That was a whole thing. you know But like now it's like, A, I can't imagine not using it. And B, it's it's just a condition, like whatever. i I wouldn't feel this way if I had to use a wheelchair, right? Exactly.

Speaker: and And yeah, I'm like um like, man, the first night I used it, I was like, is this how you're supposed to feel? Like, i used to have to plan a nap, and I'd drink like two months... When i was working at construction, I'd drink two monster energy drinks every day, and I'd plan a nap into my day. Like you said, I have new tools now, right? Yeah. But it's crazy to, like, treat these things, and then, like, the strays... you You're like, wow, how much of what I did 10 years ago is because of that or whatever, right? mean, man basically...

Speaker: ah yeah To me, it always lands in, like, well, it all of it and none of it, you know, because he didn't know. Right? So, yeah. ah Nathan, I'm clocking the time, and I want to i want to start the wrap-up here. but but But before we do, i wanted to ask – well, first of all before before before before anything, you know, i just i do want to say, – Thank you. Thank you so much for reaching out to ask about being on the show. Thank you for trusting me with some of this stuff. And I know we've talked some of it on mic, some of it off mic, but just in general, you said something about like, I've popped into your life at times when stuff was transitioning. And what I don't think you would have realized is that...

Speaker: I've been in my own weird space over the last little bit and seeing you play and then this call has really reinforced some questions I've had for myself around like, how do people see me? Do people see me? Am I like, what am I? Where am I?

Speaker: What am I doing? You know? And it's meant a lot to me. And I just, I really want to thank you for, for, for trusting me with some of this stuff. And, and I just think you're, I think you're the, that the, the, the bees knees. I think you're the cat's pajamas. yeah I appreciate you a lot. You know, I, I could tell you this, but I just, I've looked up to you in a lot of ways, specifically in how you've like been committed to your own growth. Like in the wake of your initial like breakup separation, i remember I got lunch with you in Vancouver, right? Yeah. And you didn't look bad, but you were clearly still in deep in the throes. Like you had dyed your hair and you were like, I don't know, like you were kind of all over the place all the time while you were talking. You know, I didn't think you were crashing out or whatever, but also justifiably, if you were, ah totally make sense.

Speaker: But, you know, like I was like, i wasn't worried. I was more so just like, man, I hope James is okay. Basically. yeah and And like a year and a half later, I don't know I think maybe you bounced off of social media for a while, you know, but like, i'm remember you popping back up like on a story or something and you were just talking about,

Speaker: I don't know. You were doing kind of TikToks there for a while. I think you were doing one of your stream of consciousness, you know, and you just looked healthier. Like, you know, always ways like you were smiling more, you know, you just like your, your, your face didn't have i don't know if you've been drinking a bit at that point, but your face wasn't as like puffy, which happens to me when I, and I've just watched you, i don't know, like you just committed to your own like recovery. And I just thought that was really cool. I've always like admired that. And you as a friend and I'm like drawing on that. Cause it's, you know, that's not me being like James look like shit or whatever, but it's like, I saw, I saw you. hear you. yeah you know what Like I saw you.

Speaker: I wasn't well. you know When we got that lunch, like it was recent that you. Oh, yeah. And that's trauma that's hardcore trauma, right? That like doesn't go away. Like we were just saying offline, right? But I've just watched you pull the airplane out of the the spiral yeah like multiple times. And I admire that a lot. like in you you I respect it.

Speaker: but Yeah. I mean, it's nice. to It's nice to know it's perceived. It also doesn't feel like I mean, I still feel like I'm in a tailspin all the fucking time, but who knows? But, you know, I mean, yeah, I I'm like on paper I'm pretty fucked right now like financially all this stuff is so much worse right now than it was a year ago And yet I'm like, you know, it'll get, it'll turn out. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to fix it and be better. And, you know, and I know it all won't always be like this. And that's, that I mean, that's life. I don't know. Fucking could get diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow. Right. Like it's not. That's just it. It's, you know, it can always get worse, you know, but before we call it here, first of all, where would you like listeners to find you next? If they want to keep continue.

Speaker: down the Nathan train. Sure. I mean, yeah, my band's called brain bent run all streaming services and and platforms and Instagram and stuff. I might be deleting my Instagram soon. So not going point people towards my Instagram account, but I do have cause I've been doing freelance writing and I edit a magazine here in Calgary called the scene.

Speaker: And you can find that's at Nathan aisles.com all one word. That's my portfolio with a lot of my work and yeah. And I'm like, that's, where been putting a lot of my output.

Speaker: So that's the, yeah. But and yeah, don't, don't find me on Instagram. It's not going to be there for long. I don't think I basically went to all my group chats and I was like, go on WhatsApp. Let's talk there. And then that's, I've also gotten really nerd weird about my privacy, like online. Like i've started scrubbing my stuff online and using a VPN and whatnot. Cause it's just getting more and more. Like, i don't know if you know anything about Bill C22, but like, it's just getting more and more.

Speaker: Freaky on the internet. And I'm like, man, why is so much of my life out there? Why do so many people know what's going on with me? Don't perceive me. Don't perceive The girl I'm dating says that all time. She's like, don't perceive me. i just don't want anyone to perceive me.

Speaker: I'm like, oh yeah. Hell fucking yeah, right? I always love to leave the the the last last question of the interview. I always love to ask, what is something listeners could do this week? that's What's one actionable thing they could do?

Speaker: that will either help them be a better friend or a more effective friend to themselves or to their community around them? I'd say say yes to something if a friend asks you. I was just kind of like, going to say yes to more things.

Speaker: And that got me like I wound up going to Montreal with my friend on a whim because he had a spare ticket and I wound up going to... a cool like drag brunch thing at a bar here in Calgary. wouldn't use cause a friend posted about on Instagram and was like, I'd love to see people there. i was like, sure. Yeah, I'll go to that.

Speaker: Right. So yeah, I don't know. but Not always know your limits. Right. But I think I feel like it's pretty telling, especially if someone reaches out to you, you know, someone you don't hang out with, but if someone reaches out to you and they're like, Hey, I'm doing this thing. Like, could you, could you come or, you know,

Speaker: I'm going to a movie. do you want to come with? Right. It's, it's easy, especially when you, the older you get, the more set in who you hang out with or whatever. It's easy just like say no, even if you like the person or have no problem with them.

Speaker: But yeah, just, there I mean, just saying yes to one thing, I guess you wouldn't normally say yes to not, not like a non-consensual way. Obviously, don't if you don't want to skydiving, don't go skydiving. Right. But like, yeah yeah yeah like,

Speaker: I love my hairdresser. i'm friend I see her regularly. She cuts my hair, you know, and then I often mention I had these tickets, you know, Vivek Shraya. I had tickets to see Vivek Shraya mentioned it while she was cutting my hair. She was immediately was like, oh I love Vivek. I was like, be yeah, go. I have the tickets and we want to just hang and have a great night and connect anymore. You know, it's So yeah, I'd say that. let's Say yes to something. I love that. And i i would I would actually, you know, it's funny, as you were as you were thinking of your answer, I was like, you know, what I would say is actually kind of building on what you said, but it was it was it was it was almost ask someone to do something, you know? Sure. I think what I've appreciated so much was that you kind of, you were the one who kind of,

Speaker: instigated this, you know? and And it meant a lot to me, you know? And then obviously we've then had to, you know, back and forth, but it's that thing of like, yeah, I would say, you know, to build on it, yeah, say yes and also like put someone else in a position for them to say yes to something, you know? Right? No, I think that's you can talk about about community and whatnot, right?

Speaker: The world's hard. It's getting harder. It's getting scarier, you know, but you know what? yeah I mean, what pulled me out, not to get too heavy here, but what pulled me out of my super duper suicidal sort of moments was having the moment of like, well, do I want to do anything tomorrow? Do I want to pet my cat? Do I want to do something?

Speaker: If the answer is yes, then it's like, well, then I may as well have some optimism. I may as well get what's the other fucking option. Right. And it's, I think it's something I'll worry about you is I've watched you become more practically optimistic. Not that you're not like still pissed up about the world, but you you have a way more like, I feel like when you're not born into shit tons of money, like intergenerationally, we are going to have to rely more and more on our communities and on on mutual aid and stuff and and our neighbors and even our just close friends or people you see at the bar or the fucking...

Speaker: the sandwich shop you go to all time, whatever, right? Like, it's just, I don't know. It's so easy to be so insular. I'm rambling so much right now. it makes no sense. oh yeah I just, I think it's important. to all this I think it's important. We'll be at ADHD. So it doesn't count. You can follow. but very shoot I think it's, I'm not part of it is reaching out.

Speaker: It's vulnerable to ask someone. I don't know. i and our My magazine, we're putting on a show here at a music festival. i'm really proud of it. So like asking people to come to that just to support me feels awkward. feels like a vulnerable. But I still want to do that because it's like I'm sure lots of people would be stoked to have the chance to support me and vice versa.

Speaker: As things are scarier and the environment gets more fucked up whatever. like so so Someone's got to get you some eggs if you're if you're short on eggs. right so i mean You nailed right there, though. Let people help is the big thing I'm trying to take away. is just like Give people an opportunity to help.

Speaker: You know, because they want to. They can't read your mind, you know? So it's like if they don't know you need help, then you can't be mad at them for not helping. yeah It's the most punk rock thing. That's ah what it comes down to for me. like Because that's why i grew up. Listened to Ramones and shit. So yeah, like showing up, being there in like real ways, help people move, ask people to help you move, whatever. Fucking...

Speaker: Go to the Sikh temple and get a fucking free dinner. you know They give free dinner to anyone. Sikhs, I've leaned a lot on the Calgary Sikh community, weirdly, in the last year. And I'm not a Sikh person at all. They don't they and don't give a shit. they just That's what they do. They're just fucking there for their community, right? So that's so weird. it yeah but Calgary Sikh community is awesome.

Speaker: love it Love it. It's perfect closer right there. My friend Leandra was just on the show recently and she recommended a new sign off for me, which is just to go. Okay, yep.

Speaker: And that's it. Thank you one more time to Nate for coming on the show. I could not have asked for a better guest to hit the fabled trinity of appearances. Be sure to check out his band, Brain Bent. You'll find the links to that in the show notes.

Speaker: And while you're there, as always, if you want more friendless content, sign up for my weekly sub stack. You're going to get tons of fun goodies. My thoughts of the week, along with pebbles of movies, music, books, all kinds of fun stuff that I have been enjoying over that previous week. It's a ton of fun and it's completely free.

Speaker: But that's going to do it for me this week. So thank you very much for listening. And I hope I'll catch you back here next week. But as always, I'm not going to worry about that now. And neither should you, because that is then and this is now. So for now, I'll just say I love you and I wish you well.

Speaker: Fun and safety, sweet peas.