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Frustration on numerous fronts
95 Plays1 year ago
Just as it seemed like the season might be turning around, we’re right back in purgatory. The 1-1 tie against the Vancouver Whitecaps wasn’t necessarily disastrous, but it certainly wasn’t very encouraging either.
Like we’ve said so many times this year, the Sounders defended well. They even scored an early goal in this one. But they did very little to build on that lead and were ultimately undone by a very frustrating sequence of calls that ultimately led to the Whitecaps getting a 94th minute equalizer from the penalty spot.
Jeremiah and Aaron discuss their frustrations over being in that position in the first place, vent a bit about the penalty decisions and try to look forward as well.
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Transcript
Introduction to NOS Arietes Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to NOS Arietes. This episode of NOS Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of NOS Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:28
Speaker
A.O. Shen!
Celebrating the Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Victory
00:00:30
Speaker
Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win! Here come three years through the middle to crown it the vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Niko Liddo leaves out!
00:01:12
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:27
Speaker
Welcome to another episode, Nos Adiates, sponsored by Full Pool Wines and our subscribers.
Challenges of the Current Season
00:01:32
Speaker
We're recording on Tuesday, May 21st, 2024. I am your host, Jeremiah O'Shan. Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo and our engineer, Lickett.
00:01:42
Speaker
Just as it seemed like the season might be turning around, we're right back in purgatory. The 1-1 tie against the Vancouver Whitecaps wasn't necessarily disastrous, but it certainly wasn't very encouraging either. Like we've said so many times this year, the Sounders defended well. They even scored an early goal in this one, but they did very little to build on that lead and were ultimately undone by a very frustrating sequence of calls that ultimately led to the Whitecaps getting a 94th minute equalizer from the penalty spot.
00:02:08
Speaker
We'll get into that, I promise. But let's at least start by talking about what the Sounders did to themselves. I was just sort of blown away by how passive they were in the second half. The only real scoring chance they had was the header by Jordan Morris that probably should have been called a handball.
00:02:23
Speaker
They also had no business giving up a free kick that ultimately led to the White Gaps equalizer. I'll pitch it to you, Aaron, by asking the same question I asked Brian. Were you more frustrated by that sequence around the no call and penalty or that the sounders were even in position to be at the whim of the referee?
00:02:41
Speaker
On the night of, it was extremely lopsided in favor of being frustrated about the no call on the penalty and then the call at the other end. I have not been that mad about a sporting event in a decade. I did some scream therapy. It was bad. Now that I've rewatched the game, I'm still madder about that because I do think that the sounders
00:03:09
Speaker
just played the Whitecaps off the pitch. It was not a close game at all. I think that's the most frustrating part, right? Yeah.
Critiquing Strategy and Performance
00:03:17
Speaker
As annoyed as I am that they weren't good offensively, the Whitecaps did nothing at all to deserve a point. No, nothing. And I think the night of I saw all of that possession in the second half as
00:03:36
Speaker
very smothering and just almost disrespectful in a way that some of the Sounders teams in like 2014 is a great example of this, where they just decided they were gonna keep the ball for the rest of the game and that was it. And teams were done for. And it kind of reminded me of that in the moment. Rewatching it, it was a little less that, right? Like they're just, they're,
00:04:03
Speaker
The desire to protect a 1-0 lead at home when you've had the kind of season that you've had is maybe understandable, but also I think exactly what people are sick of with this team. It's just the lack of endeavor and the lack of desire to just take the game by the horns and take control of things. So yeah, I think hindsight
00:04:31
Speaker
Another watch, I'm less frustrated by the penalty, maybe, um, or penalties, uh, and more frustrated by that second half
Impact of Key Players: Pedro De La Vega's Role
00:04:40
Speaker
performance. But you know, I still think that the sounders played exceptionally well and they did create some danger, especially after De La Vega came on. Uh, he had what, two, two shots off the posts. They, they looked just so much better, which is the one really, I think, encouraging thing that we haven't already seen from them. Cause we've seen them control games. We've seen them outplay teams and not get a win.
00:05:02
Speaker
He is an electric player. He is. He is. And I think that he is the exact player that this team needs, right? He's a bundle of energy. He wants to move the ball quickly. He wants to go at the opposition. All the things that the Sounders have struggled to do this year, he does those things at a high level. So that's very encouraging, I think, for going forward.
Navigating Playoff Contention
00:05:26
Speaker
This is a game that I feel like they had to win, and I don't necessarily mean that in the sense that the season's over now because they're still pretty close to a playoff spot. They could still easily turn things around and be right in the thick of the things down the stretch, but they just have to win that game, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, even though they don't really have to win that game. Yeah, you're up 1-0 at home in the 90th minute, you got to win the game. Yeah. Yeah. And especially when you've dominated the way that they did.
00:05:49
Speaker
And yeah, it just it really sucks the wind out of you. I mean, that's that game felt worse than to me than any loss they've had this season. And it's I'm still frustrated with it. You know what? Four days later, I can't. Yeah, I can't diminish anything you you you said there. I I will say in terms of. I think what's frustrating also is that to me, the tactics do seem like
00:06:19
Speaker
progressive in that the tactical setup does seem designed to push the game forward. And if you look at the subs that Brian made, he brought in De La Vega, he brought in Mesofsky, he brought in Reed Baker Whiting. These are all
00:06:36
Speaker
you know, substitutions, presumably designed to get a goal not to protect a lead, right. And what's so frustrating is that how often the sounders and I, okay, so in the first half, one of the things that at least to me, it seemed like what was happening was the sounders were doing a better job of creating a sort of drawing Vancouver's pressure
00:07:01
Speaker
uh deeper into the sounders end with the idea that they can then play behind they'd have more room to play behind right and they did a pretty good job of like of like drawing vancouver out and then creating the room to play balls in they'd play the balls in and then not really do anything with it and uh
00:07:24
Speaker
And then in the second half, they sort of abandoned that to a certain degree. Like they just started doing the thing where they get into the final third and then don't do anything with it. You know, they, they don't, they sort of like work their way into the final third and then start doing the horseshoe thing. Right. And I, I don't think that's tactical. I do think that it's, it's players making decisions that are maybe not
00:07:49
Speaker
built from confidence for whatever reason and I don't know how they build that confidence other than Taking risks and I don't I don't have a good answer for why that's not happening more But there are numerous times where it felt like if they played an early cross They had they would have had a better scoring chance than they ended up getting or if they just played, you know
00:08:11
Speaker
You know, there was, there was a sequence that Brian talked about today, actually a training where Jow gets the ball at the top of the box and he ends up dribbling into the box, which, Hey, that's that shows some aggressiveness. But if he had just sort of looked up, he had Rusnak next to him, essentially, who was in a better attacking position. And then Rusnak had two other passing lanes that would have been even more opportunistic.
00:08:36
Speaker
And it's like it's just those little decisions that are being made that aren't clicking for whatever reason. And I don't know, maybe a Pedro de la Vega is inclined to just make those decisions and maybe that sort of snowballs. Yeah, the thing that's strange about it, too, is that
00:08:55
Speaker
Normally, you see this kind of conservatism from a team that has been having struggles at the other end, right? They don't want to take risks in possession because they're so conscious of getting torched on the counter or whatever it is, but that hasn't been the Sounders. The Sounders have been one of the best defensive teams in the league again this year, especially at home. It's been extremely difficult to score against them at home. It's been extremely difficult to score in Lumen generally this year, as we all know.
00:09:26
Speaker
But you can afford to take those risks when you've been defending as well as the Sounders have. When Vancouver has shown so little going forward, you can't be scared of giving them possession in your own final third. You just can't.
00:09:44
Speaker
I'm with you. I think that there have been a lot of things I've been frustrated with, you know, coaching decisions, tactical decisions this year. And it's not like I loved this lineup necessarily, but I did really like the way that the team came out to play. And it's kind of like, yeah, the first 15 minutes were about as good as we've seen from the Sounders. Yeah. And it feels like in years past where they can, you know, the criticism has been.
00:10:08
Speaker
For the last few years, it's been the horseshoe of death thing, right? The old one that people used to get really upset about, reasonably, was just pumping and cross after cross after cross. And I think the discussion we had then was, it's not like Ziggy or Brian or whoever is saying, here's what we're gonna do. Hit 30 crosses. Hit 30 crosses from 30 yards away. And I think it's a very similar thing of I can't imagine that this is a
00:10:33
Speaker
decision that they're making tactically to say, okay, we got one goal. We're just going to keep the ball for the rest of the game. You know, I just, I have a hard time believing that maybe there is a conversation about saying, Hey, our defense is playing really well and we've got to lead. So let's not do anything stupid. Maybe something like that is happening, but that's a much different thing than what we're seeing. I don't know.
00:10:59
Speaker
Before we get too far down this road, let's get into the penalties. So the first one comes around the 80th minute. Obed Vargas puts in a really good cross that Jordan Morris goes over Ali Ahmed to get to. He heads it down and it hits off Gervain Brown's elbow. Now he's bringing his elbow, his arm toward his body.
00:11:26
Speaker
But it hits him when his elbow is still extended out like a pretty fair amount. Like it's outside the certainly outside the silhouette of his body. Play is stopped and ended up not not calling it. And then on the ensuing corner as it turns out is when Pedro de la Vega hits that pretty clever header off the post, which that would have been pretty sweet. But
00:11:52
Speaker
I felt like the replays were really like as soon as they showed the replays, I thought, Oh, that's a penalty. And I and I feel like I'm pretty realistic in those situations about how likely a call and to me that looked like a
00:12:06
Speaker
This is a penalty like every time that's exactly what we see called every like a guy has his elbow out like that That's a penalty right right and and so I was a little shocked to see that that wasn't called and and then on the other end
00:12:22
Speaker
Uh, first of all, new who commits a pretty lazy foul, just kind of leaving his foot in new who had been really good up to that point. And that's what's also very refreshing. Maybe, maybe his best game ever. Yeah. One of his best games. I would agree with that, but he leaves his foot in that sets up a free kick from sort of like, you know, halfway between the, the, uh, penalty area and the corner flag and.
00:12:47
Speaker
And it sets up what you assume is going to be an in-swinging free kick from Ryan Gould. Instead, Gould feeds Sebastian Berhalter at the top of the penalty area. He shoots from about 25 yards out. And Newhoo, again to his credit, immediately recognized. I was ready to sort of jump on Newhoo and say, oh yeah, he fucked up by not recognizing the danger faster. And maybe there's something to be said about the way that was marked up.
00:13:14
Speaker
You probably don't want to leave a shooter like that that open, but you're in. I also understand like in that situation, you're fully expecting gold to whip that into the into the into the goal. But anyway, so a well constructed free kick.
00:13:29
Speaker
and knew who just comes flying out. And in hindsight, clearly what it should have done is just stood his ground, but instead he dives in feet first. His hands are over his head like you would oftentimes do, but in that situation, probably not the smartest thing. Now he's pulling his arms in and the ball also strikes him in the elbow. And, but his, his arms are into his body. Um,
00:13:55
Speaker
And to me, when I saw that the hope was, well, they're going to kind of do turnabout is fair play here, right? They just didn't call that other penalty. They can't possibly call this one, but sure enough.
00:14:12
Speaker
it was called and the thing that personally just kind of pissed me off as a reporter is the two parts. One of them is so they've instituted this new rule where the referee announces the VAR decision
00:14:28
Speaker
And I cannot imagine that they envisioned the referee going to the center circle basically and just saying penalty. And then he said Seattle, which I don't know if that's even the right way to call it. Wouldn't you say penalty to Vancouver or something? Yeah.
00:14:44
Speaker
I don't know, but whatever. He doesn't do anything to explain the call, which I find just sort of like disrespectful. Yeah. Like what's the point? If you point to the spot, we know it's a penalty. Right. If you're just going to say penalty Seattle, then what's the point of the announcement? Like you're not, you're not allowed. And the other thing that killed me about it is that he doesn't even announce that it's going to be a red card on new, which is the correct call. Like, let's be clear.
00:15:07
Speaker
if you're gonna call that handball it's a yellow card and so he had just been yellow carded on the previous foul so it's the correct call and I'm not like complaining about that but why would you not announce that as part of the decision and so it just ends up leading to more confusion more frustration and then
00:15:26
Speaker
I felt it was important to submit a question to the referee as well, just to see if I could get some sort of explanation as to how they differentiated those two calls. And what they said was, effectively, one was a handball and the other one wasn't.
00:15:41
Speaker
which is so frustrating. And then I realized a lot of people have sort of retconned a decision. I mean, a thought process, which was maybe Jordan Morris fouled Ahmed on that header. And that's why that wasn't called. But the thing that like, OK, I disagree. I don't think that's what happened there. But if that's really what their thought process was, just say that you fucks. Yeah, say that and then don't give them a corner.
00:16:08
Speaker
Right. If you think it's a foul and not a penalty, right. And you're the var, you say, Hey, come review this for a penalty link.
00:16:17
Speaker
Right. And then he says, actually, it was a foul free kick. Right. Because they can't review a foul. Right. They see a foul on something else that they're reviewing. You're right. It's it's asinine. And I am so tired of this mentality of that referees have in situations like this. And it's something we've been bitching about on the show for as long as we've been doing it, or at least as long as they've had the pool reporter questions. But it's just like.
00:16:45
Speaker
If you don't want people to boo you and you don't want people to hate you, just explain your thought process. Because what I think is that you're a dork-ass loser who doesn't know what he's doing because you're not telling me what the difference is. You're saying, well, one's a handball and one's not. They're clearly not, right? Personally, I don't really want either of those called as penalties. I think that a handball penalty should be
00:17:14
Speaker
if not intentional, should be reckless in a way that I don't really think either one of those are, right? Okay, fair enough. But if the kawa knew who was a penalty, yeah, that's the one at the other end is 100 times more of a penalty. I think that calling a penalty on a guy who was on the ground with his arms into his body is completely misses the point of the handball rule.
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah and I'll note, I'm pretty sure, I mean Morris's shot was 100% on goal. There's a pretty good chance it is a goal if that doesn't hit Brown's elbow, which to me is just even more
00:18:03
Speaker
I mean, to me, that's sort of like the differentiating. That's that's to me where I really want it is like if the shots on goal, it should be you can't touch the ball with your hand or arm. Like that's to me, that's like a pretty common sense way that I would like to see that adjudicated. And it's it's really annoying to me that they didn't call it. And I'll note that the precedent for whether or not that was a foul
00:18:29
Speaker
was pretty clearly set, uh, earlier in the match when Morris was literally just standing there and a guy jumped over him and Morris got called for the foul. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And that's, that's the thing we, we talked about last week about, Hey, this game wasn't the Portland game. This wasn't officiated the way we'd like to see it, but dammit, it was consistent and we can respect that.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yep. That's all anybody is asking for consistency. And there were so many examples of this in this game. And I'm sure the sounders benefited at times from a lack of consistency to maybe sure not in his, you know, as an impactful of fashion. And I yeah, there's this tendency in sports, the sports punditry coaches, players, and I understand why coaches and players kind of have to feel this way to say you can never blame the referee. Everything it always could have been something, you know, you always could always something more in your control that you could have done.
00:19:23
Speaker
but do it no i mean in this case i'm willing to say the referee is the reason the sounders didn't win this game i'm and i'm not it's not something i'll frequently say but i will say it this time no i mean especially when it's when it's too conscious so like so
00:19:39
Speaker
Obviously, unequal applications of the same law, I think it does lead to that. That said, I don't feel like we should avoid the other parts of this game, whether or not they're the reasons the sounders lost or sounders dropped points maybe beside, I mean, it ends up not being beside the point, but it's still relevant. And that is,
00:20:07
Speaker
I think both the play of Raul Rui Diaz and Albert Rusnak, and I was a big believer in sort of like handing the keys to Rusnak. I think he deserved that opportunity this year. I actually thought through the first four or five appearances that he made this year, they were really encouraging. He was awesome against Montreal.
00:20:29
Speaker
But man, the last few games, he has not really looked up for it. He was only credited with two chances created in 88 minutes in this one. He's your number 10, DP number 10. Raul had two shots for a grand total of 0.05 XG in this game. He's your DP number nine. I mean, that is just not enough.
00:20:52
Speaker
offensive production from your two highest paid players in your two most important offensive positions. Yeah. I, uh, Rusnak was an interesting one for me because I thought he was exceptional the first time I watched and I saw people really upset with his performance and I was just baffled by it because I thought he was, he was fantastic. He does a lot of good stuff in possession, I think.
00:21:17
Speaker
He does. I think he is elite at the things he does well. And I think in another team.
00:21:24
Speaker
those skills would be worth every penny and worth the DP spot. I think in this team, and this was on rewatch the thing that I really... It's basically what you just said, right? The role you are playing, you need to do more. And that's not necessarily his fault, although I think you do want to see him press the issue a little bit more. Whether or not it's his best position or what he's most comfortable doing or whatever it is,
00:21:51
Speaker
I mean, he says it's his best position. Yeah, it's what he needs to be doing. Right. That's right. He needs from him. Now, maybe if Pedro de la Vega is healthy and in the team, the things that he does that are that he's a lead at are it's fine. It's it's what he needs to be doing. But in this team right now, he does he does need to be creating more. And so I definitely understand those criticisms a lot more on rewatch.
00:22:14
Speaker
Um, I, I like him a lot as a player, but it's just not what the team needs right now. And I think with the kills me about Rusnak is that you can at least I'm probably the same mind as you. It's not hard for me to imagine him being an elite player surrounded by the right players. Right. But the sounders need him to be a.
00:22:36
Speaker
much more influential player in the offensive third than he's been. Like he's, he's a great player in the middle half of the field, you know, from between the 18 yard boxes, he is as good as it comes. I mean, he's darlington nag be ask in terms of his ability to control the ball and, and dictate tempo and do a lot of the things that you want him to do. But man, he, I mean,
00:23:03
Speaker
He's just not getting untracked. He is really struggling to just create consistent offense. I suppose one solution might be to drop him back a line.
00:23:23
Speaker
and swap him with Roldan, although I really don't like the idea of pairing him with Jaupalo, because Jaupalo still does some things well. He's still a good passer, but he's not as mobile as he once was. I don't think this Anders can expect him to ever be that. Like, he's a good tackler when he gets into a tackle, but he's not covering the ground that you need a number six to do. And especially if, like, Rusnak's not gonna do a lot of the defensive work.
00:23:51
Speaker
You know, like you can kind of stash them back there to help facilitate possession, but you really need, the centers just need someone to break lines and press the issue a little bit more. And maybe like you said, De La Vega might be that player. I, you know, I think it's unfair to expect him to be great, you know, like right away.
00:24:18
Speaker
And, and, and so maybe it's unfair, but I do think that's a possibility. And Frank, unfortunately, the sounders need kind of need that from him too, though. Yeah. I mean, it's unfair to some degree, but it's also, you know, sounders paid a big transfer fee for him. He's, he's, he's not making crazy money just cause the economics of, of soccer wages are kind of backwards, but he's making a good amount of money. Um, and.
00:24:47
Speaker
It is a ton of pressure to put on a kid, but if you're the player that he's supposed to be, I think it's reasonable to hope that they can do that and just put him into a position assuming that he can do that, that he can be that player. It's tough, but it's why teams take a chance on your potential. He does flash that. I do think there's...
00:25:15
Speaker
reason to
00:25:34
Speaker
you know, put a lot of chips in the pile of him being the guy that could kind of be the guy this season. And I think, you know, it'll be interesting to see once he gets integrated in the team, he's 90 minutes fit. Whether Rusnak can get back to being a player that's sort of maybe not justifying his DP spot or his all the salary, but is somebody that we
00:26:01
Speaker
aren't saying is an actively a problem, you know? Right. And I think with Raul, it's really I'll talk about this in his ratings column, and I couldn't agree more with his assessment in this game. It wasn't just that he wasn't scoring, that he wasn't getting into good positions, that he wasn't taking good shots. He was getting in the way. Like he was taking the ball from his teammates. He was slowing down attacks. His passes and transition were really bad.
00:26:31
Speaker
And, you know, with Raul a lot of the year, I think the problem hasn't necessarily been that he was actively bad. It's been that he just wasn't doing what you need your DP nine to do. Right. But he was generally he was playing fine. He was playing in an average or above level for a lot of this year. But in the Vancouver game and in other points in this season, he just has been sort of a net negative for the team.
00:26:57
Speaker
And, you know, say what you will about Jordan and people say a lot of things about Jordan. I think you can feel pretty confident that he's going to give you a consistent level of performance if he's playing the nine. Like, you know what you're going to get from him. And with Raul, you just don't. Like, he might take 20 shots one night. Right. For point two XG or whatever. And he might score a worldview. Right. Right. Like, he might press his way into a goal from from midfield. You don't know, but
00:27:26
Speaker
I just, I don't need to see it anymore. I, and I love Raul deeply. I really do. And I think he still has a role to play on this team. Like Raul is a, as a 70th, 80th minute sub. I'm all for it, but I just can't keep watching him play 90 minutes or 70 minutes or whatever it is. It's just, it's not happening.
00:27:48
Speaker
No, it's it's it's not happening. And I don't I will say I have come around to the belief that the number one.
00:27:59
Speaker
Target has to be a nine I think and and and that if that means that Jordan doesn't have an obvious position Then that means Jordan doesn't have an obvious position. You figure that one out, right? You you just kind of figure that one out And I think there's gonna have to be you know But Raul can't be the starter. He just he can't know this team's ceiling is so low with him as the starter and I understand that
00:28:28
Speaker
the argument that some have made which is when your team can't score sometimes you just need a guy who can conjure a goal from nothing and sure that's on some level true but that can't be a guy you're playing for
00:28:43
Speaker
75, 85, 90 minutes. Yeah. And you just on the hope that he might, he might, uh, he might, uh, you know, hit his number on the roulette wheel. Like that can't be your offense. You can't, your offense can't be, well, sometimes that guy just makes a goal from nothing. Okay. Sure. He did it against Portland. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate it. It was a great, that was a really good goal, but
00:29:13
Speaker
You can't go in, that can't be your game plan. No, it can't. You keep that guy around and on the bench to bring in in 70 minutes when you need a goal and you can't break the other team down. You say, here's 20 minutes, go make magic. Yeah. And I think too, when we've seen Raul in substitute appearances where he doesn't have to conserve his energy,
00:29:37
Speaker
he looks a lot closer to 2019 Raul than he does when he's playing 90 minutes weekend and week out. And I don't know, I guess it sounds like he like I saw him today at training and to me it looks like he is he might legitimately have a
00:29:53
Speaker
some kind of foot in like he missed the RSL game with some sort of foot injury. And so maybe that's that's taking a toll. But like, let's take if that's the case, why is he playing? Right? Yeah. If he's hurt, like get him off the field. You run hurt guys out there. As a desperation measure, if they're still playing well. Right. And I mean, I guess in this Vancouver game, I guess the Oregon is like, well, who are you going to start instead? Start Masovsky. Great.
00:30:22
Speaker
Sir Sir Jordan Morris and put it at the nine and put somebody else on the wing, you know, right. Play one of the guys that you haven't used all year. I don't I don't care what you do, but don't do the thing that you've been doing all year that's not working. Yeah, exactly. And like I said earlier, like I don't this is not a game I'm super upset with Brian about. Like I think the game plan from the outset was good. But that that one is just it can't keep going like this, man.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yeah. And, and what's crazy is that for all the frustrations, and this is sort of like illustrates how forgiving the current playoff structure is. If the Sounders win on Sunday, Saturday, they're going to be in a playoff spot. Now it's a precarious playoff spot. Don't get me wrong. Like they've got some climbing to do, but like, by no means are they out of this race. No, I mean, they could go on to win three straight games. They're right in the middle of the, like they're in contention for avoiding the playing game.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's not that far away. It feels that way because of the way the team has been playing. But it's really not. The Western Conference is decidedly mediocre again. The Sounders outplayed Vancouver, I think it's fair to say. And they outplayed Colorado earlier in the year. I think they've outplayed the Galaxy. They've outplayed Austin. They've outplayed teams above them.
00:31:50
Speaker
Uh, we know that they have the talent to do it. They just have to remember how to score goals. And, uh, if they can do that even a little bit, I feel super confident this team is going to finish comfortably above the play-in spot. Yeah, but it feels like a big if at this point to me. Yeah, I would agree with that. Um, but it does make it hard to sort of just give up on the regular season and focus on the open cup.
00:32:20
Speaker
Although, I, you know, today Brian talked a little bit, I guess we can kind of consider my transition into the open cup discussion.
Approach to Open Cup Matches
00:32:31
Speaker
The Sounders play Phoenix Rising on
00:32:35
Speaker
Wednesday today, I guess that's going to be later today. Hopefully you picked up the preview episode I did with Joe Lowry, where we talk a lot about that game. But just real quick, I wanted to touch on this one because it is a little complicated how the sounders go into this game. You know, I looked I like you probably looked around the open cup today and saw a lot of starters playing Denny Bawonga played for LAFC.
00:33:05
Speaker
to ease played in both their their open cup games I don't necessarily expect the sounders to use any dps in this game although I don't know I think it would show some intent if Rusnak was available off the bench I wouldn't mind that
00:33:20
Speaker
but the center's whole, you know, both injury and fixture congestion situation does legitimately make it a little harder for them to just sort of like go for it in the open cup. But Brian said he would have more starters in this game, so we'll see. Yeah. I think that the thing he said too was I need to start finding players that can play twice in a week, you know, and I appreciated that a lot because
00:33:49
Speaker
If you are a professional at this level, you should be able to do that a few times a year. And I don't think anybody's been shirking that responsibility, but I just, I think that it's sort of, you get into this mindset of like, well, he played on Wednesday, he can't play on Saturday. And I don't think that's true. I think there are players that have 180 minutes in the space of a week in them.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I my expectation is like Christian will probably play both these games for all these games. I don't know. It is kind of annoying to me that Jordan Morris hasn't played in an open cup game since 2016. Like, yeah, come on. I think Jordan could use a game against lower level competition. Sure. I think Jordan has played really well this year in a lot of phases of the game.
00:34:36
Speaker
He clearly is needing some confidence. Yeah, let him run at Phoenix Rising. Yeah, I would love to see that. I would love to see that.
00:34:44
Speaker
On Starfire, it is funny how small Starfire's field seems as soon as the MLS quality players are on it. Yeah, it is really tiny. I remember watching Freddy Montero playing against F.C. Dallas and I think it was 2011 from the hillside and just really, really having it hit me how ridiculous
00:35:11
Speaker
The whole thing was in a good way at that time. Yeah. I think the one for me was Obafemi Martins in 2014 against Chicago fire that game. They won, I think six zero. Yeah. And just seeing him kind of run around that field was so, was very surreal. Yeah.
00:35:30
Speaker
And yeah, but it's one of those things that used to be charming about American soccer that is maybe less so now, but yeah. Yeah. Well, all right. Well, we're going to come back. We're going to answer some reader questions. And, uh, yeah, thanks for listening to those ideas. We'll be right back.
00:35:59
Speaker
Welcome back to NOS Adiatus. So just as a little bit of a reminder, we sometimes do these episodes, this whole standalone episodes, but we have had so many games lately that we've just been folding them into the show. But if you want to participate in this part of the show, you want to submit questions, get on our Discord. To get on our Discord, you just got to be a member of Sounder at Heart at the supporter level or above.
00:36:29
Speaker
Send us an email and we'll send you an invite. You can start having a lot of fun. And, uh, you know, we're not, maybe you won't have fun there, but yeah, you'd be around a lot of other sounders fans. So it's under heart readers even. Yeah.
00:36:44
Speaker
Uh, is it, but Aaron, why don't you, you want to get us started? Let's do it. Yeah. So the first question is actually two questions, um, but they're related. And so we'll just kind of tackle them both, uh, at once. The first one is from sounder pilot. After this week's Vancouver game, I find myself questioning what is a handball? What is the natural position for an arm while sliding? How is an elbow sticking out like a chicken wing, a natural position? And then the second follow up related question to that is from Ty and it's actually not a question. It's just a statement, but.
00:37:11
Speaker
We can we can map roughing is never good, but the season I feel like I can't be bothered to watch games where the roughing is so inconsistent and goofy. What are your thoughts on those, Jeremiah? Well, I I will reiterate, I think a handball to me, this is what I want to see. He called a handball that when the arm is outside the silhouette of the body and it obstructs a ball that is otherwise goal bound.
00:37:39
Speaker
And I feel like both of the handballs in this situation met that criteria. And I'm totally fine with that being a handball. I have no problem at all, frankly, with that. I think one of the rules of thumb should probably be if the arm is against your body and the ball was going to strike your body in a allowable place, that that should probably not be a handball.
00:38:09
Speaker
But yeah, I feel like that's, I feel like we over complicate this and I think that's a pretty straight forward. I feel like I'm even following sort of the, the guidelines of ifab. Uh, yeah, I, I did not love the, the refereeing in this game either. I'm frustrated by it. I, I can't say that the refereeing ever makes me not want to watch the games, but you know, I, I understand.
00:38:34
Speaker
how people are frustrated. But that's, that's part of what we love about soccer, right? Is complaining about referees, getting mad at referees. Now that the premier league season is over, I'm probably going to start hitting MLS refereeing even more. Um, because it's, because you'll forget how bad the premier league refereeing, refereeing in the last is comparatively so much better that, uh,
00:38:54
Speaker
I'm not going to have a point of comparison, but yeah, it was very bad in this game. I feel like we're generally pretty fair to referees. People have gotten extremely mad at me before for saying that I think MLS referees are generally pretty good, but not in this one. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, this is an interesting one that we'll...
00:39:18
Speaker
come into focus will get a better answer from this. I think I'm supposed to talk to Adrian Hannah were actually on Thursday. I don't know when that will be published, but I'm supposed to talk to him on Thursday night and all certainly
00:39:33
Speaker
bring this up to him, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. This is from Laurie says the attendance seemed considerably lower than expected for a Vancouver home game on a Saturday night. I have to admit, I agree. More than half my row was empty and there were barely even a line for Dippin dots at halftime, which seemed ominous. I don't think I had to pause on the stairs at the end of the game either just walked right out. Is the front office concerned that fans aren't coming? Is there anything that can they can do to get the
00:39:59
Speaker
back in the stadium. That's maybe the more relevant question to you. What can you done to bring the energy back into Loom and Field? Well, I will definitely say that I feel pretty confident that the front office is worried. Yeah, I will. Yes, I think that we can I assure you the front office has noticed. Yeah. And I mean, it's
00:40:23
Speaker
I think the unsatisfying and also less interesting answer because I don't think it really gets to the spirit of the question is when, right? Yeah. People that have been skipping games are going to come back if the Sounders are winning. People are going to renew their season tickets if the Sounders finish on a high note, et cetera, and so forth.
00:40:46
Speaker
more importantly, for me at least, is that going to a Sounders game used to feel like a real event. And it doesn't feel that way now and it hasn't for a long time. And I think COVID was part of that. But the Champions League final was post COVID and it felt like a big event. It felt like a serious event.
00:41:05
Speaker
Um, the double headers with, with the timbers in the rain, um, have felt like events, uh, in the playoff game against, uh, RSL, I think was, was that the last time they played playoff game at home?
00:41:18
Speaker
No, they played LFC. Oh, that's right. Those games felt like a big deal, right? Not quite the same as I don't know, 2014, whatever the heyday, I guess, of the of the game, the game going experience, but they felt better. And I think a lot of that is because the stadium was packed.
00:41:37
Speaker
there was a festive atmosphere and now it feels kind of like a funeral dirge and the stadium is not packed. It feels kind of empty in there, which is like it's a big stadium. So you got to have a lot of people in there for it to feel packed. And it just feels the sounders in at least my game going heyday.
00:42:01
Speaker
were clearly the second banana to the Seahawks, but it didn't feel that way on game day. It felt like the Sounders home stadium. All the concessions were open, especially when they opened the full stadium. It felt similar to being at a Seahawks game in terms of the atmosphere and the vibe and how seriously everyone was taking it. Ever since dynamic pricing and emphasizing maximizing per ticket revenue over filling the stadium and
00:42:32
Speaker
closing off huge portions of the concessions, it just doesn't feel that way anymore. It feels like the Sounders are an MLS team playing in an NFL stadium that doesn't give a shit about them. Yeah, and I suppose counterintuitively, because I think both of us are sort of supporting of the idea that we would very much like the Sounders to remain in Loom and Field and certainly within the city of Seattle.
00:42:59
Speaker
I can sort of understand why these sounders are exploring other stadium options because they don't control so much of these exterior things. But the one thing they do control to some degree is their performance on the field. And I think it's inescapable. They've played six games this year. In two of those, they've scored an open play goal.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, they just aren't playing exciting soccer. And I think that is what's the main cause of what is being described here. But there are other things going on, too, that are undeniable. And like the concession, like scoring goals isn't going to open concession stands. And, you know, scoring goals isn't going to open the the third deck. And, you know, all these are the 300 section, I should say.
00:43:53
Speaker
So there's definitely, there's a lot going on there. And I don't think there's an easy answer. But yes, I think the front office is aware. And yes, I think it was notable that, you know, this was
00:44:06
Speaker
Heritage Night, whatever. I don't quite know what Heritage Night was supposed to be. You know, it was cool that Kellen Rowe came out there and did the flag waving thing and led Boom Boom Clap. And that was that was great. But I I kind of have felt a little underwhelmed by the 50th anniversary celebration in general. It doesn't feel like any game has felt.
00:44:28
Speaker
particularly special, other than they brought out a former player who, you know, does the introduction, which is a nice touch, but it's not itself sort of appointment television, for lack of a better term. Yeah. So I don't know. I this this is the game day experience has felt diminished this year in a way that I don't think I would have said before.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's really disappointing considering how important this year is supposed to be. It's pretty palpable. Might have been a little less depressing to talk about from Boomstick315. I asked a while back if you thought big name signings were worth it in MLS. Since then, it seems like the arrival of Messi has raised the caliber of player interested in MLS and Sounders attendance has gotten to the point where maybe some juice is needed.
00:45:18
Speaker
Are there any big name players coming to the end of their European careers who you think would make a meaningful impact on interest? And do you think it would still be worth it on the field? I mean, there were certainly, you know, Kevin De Bruyne apparently has made some
00:45:38
Speaker
Some suggestions that he would like to play for San Diego or in MLS, Marco Royce is another player who recently got mentioned as a, as an MLS bound player. No, both of these guys are in their thirties. They aren't exactly the kind of profile that.
00:45:55
Speaker
the sounders would normally be after. But frankly, I don't know if those are even the types of names who would move the needle for the sounders. They'll get me wrong. It would be fun to watch these guys, but is Kevin De Bruyne going to sell another 5,000 to 10,000 tickets? I don't think so. I don't know. Maybe I am underestimating his appeal.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think so, personally. I'm sure you'd be a very good player. Oh yeah, absolutely. That's good. But I mean, I am still a believer that the way the sounders can move the needle is much more about finding
00:46:45
Speaker
a fun, exciting players that are in their prime and showing you're a real, you know, like kind of a statement of intent sort of signing rather than a, this is a, you know, like a more key signing, a player you've heard of. Like, I don't care about signing players I've heard of, frankly.
00:47:06
Speaker
No, I, I'm probably the worst person to ask this question because I, all of that stuff is boring to me. I don't have no interest in seeing Kevin De Bruyne. I understand why you have to sign Messi, but I liked it better when he was playing here. You know, um, it, it, it actively diminishes how much I enjoy the game. Um, and, and the league, like it sucks to follow the league now because it's just.
00:47:31
Speaker
The only thing anybody talks about is Messi. And like, man, I've seen the guy play. I've been watching him for a long time at a higher level than he's at now. It's just not that interesting to me. And I don't begrudge anybody who it is their thing, but we just care about different things. And I'm totally with you. I would much rather they sign
00:47:53
Speaker
you know, players of the profile of Pedro de la Vega or Nico Ledero or Raul Rodriguez when they signed him, right? None of them I had heard of before they came here. Yeah, I had heard of Raul because front of the show, let's see, what's his current Twitter name?
00:48:13
Speaker
I don't know, I'm not on there anymore. Uh, he used to get in trouble for impersonating people on Twitter. Uh, yeah, there you go. Uh, was talking about what a great MLS signing he would be for like six months before the sound or sign him. Right. So that's how I knew about him. Okay. Um, but he was one of the best, I mean, he was one of the best strikers in, in pocket. And those are the, those are the players that excite me. And those are also, I think historically the players that.
00:48:43
Speaker
have the most success in MLS, right? For every big marquee signing that turns out great, there are 10 where they don't move the needle at all. I mean, does anybody remember Frank Lampard in MLS?
00:48:57
Speaker
Um, not fondly. Yeah. Um, Shaqiri has not been great. And, and, and I would say he's been bad. What's up. I would say he's, he's even been mad. He's been bad. I don't think Bernadeschi has been great. Really. Um, he's actually, Bernadeschi has been okay this year, but yes. Uh, though has not been very good. Yeah. And for what you're paying, I mean, he's the second highest played player in the league, right? Insinia. Yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
I understand why there's the marketing question, but I think that for maybe more than other MLS markets, it's not important. And I just want to look at the list of players that are coming available on Freeze
00:49:46
Speaker
None of the super well-known ones are super appealing to me. I mean, Kilian Mbappe is obviously, I would be okay with that. That's maybe a different, is Antoine Griezmann, is he coming on a free or is he still under contract? I think still under contract, but I think it's a, they would be willing to let him leave situation. Okay. I mean, he's the one that you would want.
00:50:12
Speaker
I think he would make the team better and he has sort of hinted at being open to playing here. I know he's a Mariners fan, which is kind of weird. Or at least he got a photograph today with, uh, who's his buddy, his Mariners buddy. Julio Rodriguez. Yeah. I think you got a photograph today with him in Florida for some reason. Yeah. And like he would make the team better if he wanted to be here. That's cool. But I would, I would rather have a different player.
00:50:42
Speaker
And I think too, given the sounders, let's just charitably say a more conservative approach to spending in the last three or four years. That's not really what I want. If you're going to be conservative with your spending,
00:51:02
Speaker
get good at being conservative with your spending, you know, get good at finding undervalued players and don't sign Griezmann for $10 million or whatever. Exactly. So that's where I'm at on that one. Yeah, I agree with you. If you have, I would rather go sign another Pedro de la Vega for, you know,
00:51:26
Speaker
$7 million transfer fee, then commit $30 million for three years to some name player that you've heard of. Absolutely. All right. This is from Sematic. He says, we like to browse transfer market for potential players we might sign, but let's flip that on its head. Are there any front office signings that would be a dream for the Sounders? Uh,
00:51:54
Speaker
Wes Edens and Nessie Saveras would be nice, but I don't think that's happening. I mean, I think, honestly, and I hate... I don't know. Who are these people? They own Assembilla. Okay. I think that the biggest thing that would be a boon to the Sounders right now would be ownership that's willing to invest a lot of capital.
00:52:17
Speaker
front office wise and invest in a way that is going to be sustainable, not in the... Because we talked about this, I think last week, you don't want to ever be at the whims of the billionaire, but it would be nice to have a little bit more of a safety net, I think, especially for some of the capital improvements that the club is making right now. But failing that, I think a lot
00:52:39
Speaker
Like coaches, I'm really skeptical of anybody outside of MLS having a lot of success in MLS because there are just countless examples of people not having success. And coaches who have gone on to have success in better leagues at MLS, right? Coaches that had great track records.
00:52:59
Speaker
Uh, and you know, it's been kind of the same at the front office level. There, there are people who have come from outside the league that have had great success, but it's just like every other other teams take those risks. Um, so it's more about poaching from, from other MLS teams. And I mean, I think what Philly is has done with their budget has been really impressive. Um, I mean, hard, hard not to think that, uh, Tim Bezbichenko in Columbus is probably not the, he's probably the gold standard for, for talent acquisition.
00:53:30
Speaker
Yeah. But he also, he's been given a budget, a transfer budget to go out and sign. I mean, Kucho Hernandez, Diego Rossi were both very expensive acquisitions and, you know, if the sound, and I don't know, I'd like to see what the sounders could do if they, you know, were able to go sign a Kucho Hernandez. If they had that kind of budget to sign a Kucho Hernandez, it would be interesting to see what they would do with it.
00:53:54
Speaker
, and
00:54:08
Speaker
Um, bring him in, but I mean, he, he also had money. He also had a bunch of, he also was given a bunch of money to make some, some big transfers. So, um, I don't know that there's anyone out there that's doing just amazing work with no budget. Right. Right. And I think that's the thing with me where I just don't feel like Craig Weible is the, is the problem that needs to be fixed right now. Because.
00:54:38
Speaker
He's had a chance to make one big signing and it hasn't, I mean, it's, we're pretty, even though it hasn't, there hasn't been a big impact on the pitch yet. We're pretty early in the game. Uh, and, and I think the process that led to the signing, that's the kind of player I think everybody wants to be. We're not everybody, but it's kind of player. I want the sounders to be targeting. And, uh, so I don't, I don't really have a complaints with what he's done with the big ticket signings. And those are really the.
00:55:08
Speaker
I mean, those are the ones that are tough, right? So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at the sort of the supporter shield standings and there's, I don't know that there's anyone out there that is bending comparable amounts of money who I'm thinking has done just a
00:55:27
Speaker
Obviously better, like the red bulls are doing pretty good without spending with while spending about what the sounders have spent, but they also signed a meal Forsberg and they also have the red bull sort of like apparatus at their disposal. And they have a much more well-established Academy. Yeah. They've been able to turn into kind of a revenue. Yeah.
00:55:47
Speaker
I'm not at all convinced that Craig Weibull is the main issue or the center's front office at large is the main issue. But yeah, I mean, I suppose if they had an owner who was, if they brought in some owners that were maybe a little bit more willing to spend more, that would be an interesting thing. But I don't know, I'm not, I will say that I appreciate
00:56:12
Speaker
and have some high degree of faith that Adrian and his team will sort of like find the right spot. But there's been, it's been a bumpy road right now. So we'll see, we'll see how that goes. But all right. Last question. I think it's Andrew. Why did the sounder spend so much money on a training facility that doesn't have anywhere to practice set pieces?
00:56:42
Speaker
that is I don't know that's good I don't have that's well said well said Andrew well played well played yeah I don't I think that's just a good note to end on yeah I think so I don't have anything to let them have that yeah yeah hat on a hat we're gonna call that a show
00:57:10
Speaker
Uh, obviously sounders are playing Phoenix rising tonight. That's we recorded. You'll be listening to this on Wednesday. Hopefully if you don't listen to it on Wednesday, understand that we recorded this before the Phoenix rising game. And that's why we didn't talk about it. So, uh, all that said, I am Jeremiah Shannon signing off for Aaron and Lickett. Thank you to our, oh yeah. Thank you to our sponsor football wines. Thank you to our sounder heart subscribers.
00:57:40
Speaker
This is no study at this, and remember, you'll never go alone.
00:58:19
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!