Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
How The West Will Be Won with Gass and Oshan
1 Plays3 seconds ago
David Gass of Soccerwise joins Jeremiah for another segment of How The West Will Be Won. The two talk about the latest round of MLS coach firings, discuss some of the players that could be on the move during the World Cup break and end with handicapping the Western Conference race.
Follow David Gass on BlueSky and YouTube.
Sponsor
🍷 Full Pull Wines: Love wine but not wine clubs? Check out the boutique wine seller who lets you browse their selections and pick whatever you want. You can join their mailing list here: https://fullpullwines.com/signup.php
***
Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which has been primarily listener supported since 2023. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more here. You can also watch many of their shows on YouTube.
Aside from becoming a Sounder at Heart subscriber, you can also support the show by using this link to purchase the Sounder at Heart physical magazine, IV or checking out our merch table to buy various shirt designs.
“Diversions” audio provided by Sounder at Heart subscriber Lars; find more of their music here.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Will Bruin's Announcement
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come
Seattle Sounders' Achievements
00:00:12
Speaker
on. Hey, O'Shaughness. Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Ooch of a gooch! All creatures, great and small! Rothrock gonna collect it, he does just about, runs into the advertising order. Low to our left, ball goes in! Oh, what a goal! Where's my copy? got bunch of them How many do you cost them? 50 bucks.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'll deadline you.
Sponsorship and Episode Introduction
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. I am joined once again by my good buddy, the host of Soccer Wise, David Goss.
00:01:54
Speaker
How's it going? Great. I'm ready to chop it up. I'm jealous of the jerseys in your background and I'm ready to talk. Oh, yeah. We got ah we got some Patrick Yanni stuff here.
DeAndre Yedlin's Career and Impact
00:02:05
Speaker
That's an Obed Vargas. That's an assigned Obed Vargas jersey. I was going to ask what the stripes were.
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's who that is. Yeah, I would assume. where ious And then I think this is a DeAndre Yedlin jersey from Tottenham. Nice. Yeah. Man, weird that Yedlin's on ah RSL.
00:02:23
Speaker
It's just like a weird spin back around. a weird spin around. made a strong take about it that I think he would be, think he's a Defender of the Year contender if he plays up to his level because of the way RSL plays. But it hasn't been a terrible take so far, but hasn't been great.
00:02:38
Speaker
You know, and it's it is funny because he was it was so i mean, it was... 2014, his last season in Seattle. Wild. for wow I would imagine some of our listeners, they don't even remember that.
00:02:51
Speaker
He was the shining light of Americans in Europe for like two, three years. He was the only one consistently playing on his team around that 2018 dark days.
00:03:03
Speaker
And you know, what was else was funny is I really thought he was going to get to 100 caps for the U.S. national team. And I think he's going falling just a little bit short because he, you know, I guess this is what sort of happens with a lot of national teamers is they are regulars. And then and it seems like they could just, you know, they're just going to keep ticking off eight to 12 caps a year forever. And then they just stop getting called in and they do zero. Yeah.
00:03:28
Speaker
He's got 81 caps, which is a ton and is an incredible yeah national team career. um But he was as a young player, definitely well on the way um to hitting that. I think...
00:03:42
Speaker
he really got hurt by the fact his generation basically is the lost generation. That's not his fault. So he got hurt by the fact that after they wanted Burr Halter to jump to the next generation because we hadn't qualified anyway and let's get there.
00:03:56
Speaker
And he he was in a little bit off and on. But then when he came back to MLS, he just completely fell off um the map. Yeah, yeah, it was it's too bad. And, you know, I would like to think that he will someday have another, ah you know, like a farewell stint. But it's getting, you know, we're getting to the point now where the the vent the the axes are not going to quite maybe line up where he's the right price and the right need. And if he were to come back at this point, it would almost be...
00:04:26
Speaker
purely as a sort of like ah a one year swan song kind of situation, which is. So he's in a four way tie for 28th all time on the appearances. Cause 81 again is a lot. Tim Reams on 80.
00:04:41
Speaker
So he will probably pass him. Weston McKinney's on 64. That's like the next ballistics already ahead of him. um But if he got one more, he would jump over Tab Ramos, Thomas Dooley, and Desmond Armstrong, who are three like legends, and he would go into a tie with Eddie Lewis, Eddie Pope, and Brad Friedel.
00:04:59
Speaker
So yeah, it does show... Yeah, it shows the level he was on. mean, he was starting at Newcastle, and at a time when, again, people weren't playing. And then when he came back to MLS, it's interesting. It's just, MLS is so specific the way you have to structure a roster.
00:05:13
Speaker
And so guys like that just like are never going to be... probably paid the number they want. And now you get into a comfort versus challenge situation. And I think some of the national team coaches have tried to like overly sense that of like, oh, well, he's come back for his family to be comfortable. Like he's not pushing his competition anymore.
00:05:32
Speaker
And it's like they give up on those guys before actually getting them in the pool and being like, oh, he actually can't hang at this level anymore. Yeah, it is interesting. You know, and while we're on this subject, and since we, you know, part of the fun of the show is that we're just kind of talking MLS here.
MLS Player Transfers and Potential Returns
00:05:47
Speaker
But, you know, one of the players who just came on the market, Daryl Dike, a little bit of a flash in that, you know, he is a few people in our market have mentioned, hey, that might be an interesting player.
00:06:00
Speaker
i did not completely appreciate that. It was four years ago that he left Orlando City. And that he has, you know, he because he went when he first went his first two stints on loan and then his first real stint in England were both really good.
00:06:14
Speaker
But he has spent most of the last three years injured. And now he got he just got released by West Brom. Where do you put, you know, he's still only 26, I believe. Where do you put Daryl Dike in terms of is he someone that MLS team should be targeting to bring back?
00:06:28
Speaker
So I think Seattle probably sits in a unique place here in which if you could get them on a non DP number, you wouldn't be reliant on him. And therefore you could risk the injuries concerns for him. Cause that stuff's not going to go away. Like he's no, he's been sidelined most of the last two years. Yeah. Yeah. um But he's he's a game changer when he's on the field. And he would be, when healthy, he would be a top 5'10 goal scorer in Major League Soccer.
00:06:57
Speaker
So that's like the risk you would have to take where for Seattle with Musavski and de De Rosario and whatever, you can take that risk if you wanted to.
00:07:08
Speaker
I'd be surprised if there were a lot of other and MLS teams who could because I don't think they have the cap flexibility to do it. And I'm trying to think of like a team. The only teams I could see give them a DP spot are like a Colorado where they are like, this is our lane and we're not going to get other people. And we fully established that right this is what we do. and so we'll be the ones, right? The amount of money they gave Paxton Aronson, no one else in MLS is doing that. So I think that's like a type of team that I could see maybe talk themselves into it. And the other pieces with no transfer fee,
00:07:44
Speaker
you could up if you don't need the DP spot because you're going to use it on someone else. You could push them into that number, which is like max TAM number between 1.2 and 1.8, whatever it is. And if you needed to, you could buy them down.
00:07:57
Speaker
If it's a three-year deal, then let's say it doesn't work out. Once you're a year and a half in, you could look at a buyout or a termination or something. But I think in the list of teams that are like competitive in MLS, I think most of them I wouldn't say are worth that risk.
MLS Market and Strategy Amid World Cup Break
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, i was, one thing I thought was interesting is that he wasn't quite making DP wages in England, but I don't know what his mindset is. Like he might, i don't know, maybe someone who feels like he would need to be a DP to come back to MLS, but it's an interesting, you know, this is going to very interesting summer and not just because it's a world cup summer, but because there's this long pause between games. There's a, what's almost 60 days between games. Right.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah. And Do you think that's going to do you think that essentially that will change the market as well? Or is it more of just a and I don't know, it's just it's like an un I don't think we've ever had a a summer like this, have we, where we've had this long of a pause.
00:08:54
Speaker
No, absolutely not. I think 2014, there was a 2022 obviously didn't matter because it was a winter world cup. Right. 2014. remember like an extended pause where I don't think it was as long for 2018. think it was like three weeks or something.
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah. And I think obviously part of that was the U S not qualifying. And I also like the time zone stuff because 2014 was like the games are during prime time and you didn't want to go up against it in MLS. Yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker
intelligently at the time was trying to use the momentum of the world cup rather than swim against the tide. And I do remember the 2014 world cup final was on ABC and it was a double header with a Portland Seattle game.
00:09:36
Speaker
And it was a brutal game. It was like one zero. No, it was a Atlanta Seattle game. if I remember correctly, I thought it was 2018. No, no, 2014 is what I'm talking about. 2014. Okay. I was talking 2018. Okay.
00:09:53
Speaker
Interesting. I didn't realize they did it in 2018 too. I didn't remember that. Um, but I remember that game and it was like semifinal. I just remember it being like, oh, this is the best game and MLS has to put on. Great. And it just was like, ah, you just got a bad one this time. And it's like the most um MLS story. I tell this story all the time.
00:10:12
Speaker
We watched ah Orlando NYCFC's first ever game. I was in the MLS league office at the time doing work for MLSSoccer.com. And it was like caca, right? And they had sold out the Orange Bowl.
00:10:23
Speaker
And it was just 0-0 in like the 70th minute. And Simon Borg goes, just never snows for us. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, NHL, they do the winter classic. It just snowed the first time.
00:10:34
Speaker
And like, no one remembers the game even, but it's this magical thing that now has this huge moment. And it was this surge of interest of like, they're playing hockey in the snow. And it was like, and MLS finally got a sold out full stadium with big stars and big names.
00:10:48
Speaker
And it was just a stinker of a 0-0 game. And that's always stuck with me. But yeah, this layoff is different. And I think we've already seen it. With Columbus letting Rydstrom go, and with Austin even more importantly, I think, letting Nico Estevez and Rodolfo Borrell go, it shows the sign internally, which is this is a second shot at a preseason.
00:11:10
Speaker
And teams that don't like where they're at, I think are going to use this in a way we've never seen before. i think it shows some other signs about the league, which we can talk about. But that's the big one is we legitimately have a chance to just start a new season coming out of this break if we want to.
00:11:27
Speaker
And every team is playing at least half their games after the break. More than half. More than half. I mean, the Sounders are going to be playing 21 games after the break, which is wild.
00:11:39
Speaker
Or 21 MLS games. I think most teams will have played 14 going into the break. um yeah So coming out of it, they will have the 20. Yeah, they'll have 20 left to play. yeah so they'll have the twenty or so um left to play Yeah, I mean, that's that's it is an interesting it creates an interesting dynamic. you know One of the other ones that obviously near and dear to our heart is the Portland Timbers, who a lot there's been a lot of chatter about how yeah what's going on with ah with Phil Neville. And he seen you know every week he seems to do just, you know, like he'll get we'll get a result that's just good enough to sort of like, no, no, no.
00:12:21
Speaker
The gaffers ready to go. with the know what's his nickname? The gaffer. Yeah, I think so. We have gaps. Yeah, you British manager. Yeah. yeah Portland on 14 points right now.
00:12:32
Speaker
So they're one ahead of St. Louis for 14th. Oh, yeah. The fizz are sorry. And 15th, obviously, sporting Kansas City. ah Technically, they are five points out of a quote unquote playoff spot. I wouldn't exactly call it that, but that's what some people will.
00:12:47
Speaker
I think he's in a lot of trouble. I just, I watched the team and we got some comments from our show on, on Monday. Cause we were live during the time when the news came out about Estevez. So we had already planned to talk about Henrik Rydstrom, but in the rundown, we had already built like,
00:13:04
Speaker
Tom kind of anticipated next week being that experience, which was hearing multiple coaches court of sort of like that red Monday, I think is what the NFL calls it when the regular season ends. And that's where you get the news on a lot of it. And two of them happened already. The other major ones that people are talking about is Toronto, the struggles they've had, obviously Philadelphia, which I would be surprised if Philadelphia made move.
00:13:29
Speaker
That seems like it would be tough, right? I mean, I know that this is exactly what happened or not exactly what happened to It's similar to what happened to Carnell in St. Louis, but it just seems like it would be really harsh to, like, I realized going from supporter shield to wooden spoon contending is a bad, is a, is a pretty stark fall, but winning wooden spoon contending at a rate that would be the worst points rep points per game per punt in MLS history.
00:13:57
Speaker
not just the worst team in the league. They'd be worse than 2013 to UC United. If it continued, which I'd be surprised if it did, just because again, the core of a team is in there. That's one, so many games that my assumption is when they get hot, they'll win three. And even though I'm not saying they'll make the playoffs, I think they'll blow that number and blows that number. You have to be so bad all season to hit that. But that's again, similar to the Phil Neville stuff like that shouldn't be a conversation, but the performances have been so bad.
00:14:25
Speaker
that it pulls it in. My guess is with Ernst Tanner coming back, quote unquote, whether he left or not is up to a debate or it seems like potentially opinion, um that that's just gives you a runway of like, well, it's all been chaotic. Let's reset from here. Let's start over.
00:14:41
Speaker
But Portland, and then we were going to talk at the time about Austin. And in saying that, it's like, okay, this is the feeling about Austin externally and clearly was happening internally. So I think it gives legitimacy to the conversations we're all having about all these teams where if it feels like there's external pressure, there probably is because an Austin felt it and they made the move and a Columbus, not only did they feel it, they had a little bit of a different situation because they have open cup quarterfinals this week where they like wanted the new coach bump for that game.
00:15:13
Speaker
I think that Portland's in the same boat. I don't know how you will don't watch Portland and feel that the pieces don't work together or are not working together.
00:15:24
Speaker
And so some of the pushback I got from Timbers fans, which I think is legitimate, is, well, do the pieces fit? Because if that's not the case, then is it on Phil Neville? It's on Ned Grabovoy. It's on the front office.
00:15:35
Speaker
And I think that's a fair question to ask. It's a fair question to ask... I think this is what I would say. And I, and I'm wondering what, how you fall on this is that in the similar to the Burrell Estevez situation where it's like, yeah, you're right. It's both, you know? And I, cause is there really any, someone was, don't remember who it was. Maybe it was Doyle, but they were comparing Neville to, well, Chris Reifer was comparing Neville to John Spencer and John Spencer is, you know,
00:16:07
Speaker
ah The first Timbers coach, everyone agreed was a disaster. yeah you he was okay his first year, but he was like, you know, he was famous for like rolling the balls out into the training pitch and say, have at it boys.
00:16:19
Speaker
ah And anyway, everyone sort of agrees he was a disaster at Portland. And that's the comparison that's the most apt comparison at this point to Phil Neville. And Yeah, I mean, I think there is something to be said that maybe the Timbers roster is not as well put together as some would have you believe.
00:16:38
Speaker
But like is that excuse like, is there really a world where Ned Grabovoy gets fired and Phil Neville doesn't? and And the way I just think people need to think about this stuff is for the most part, it's the sporting director's job to fire the coach.
00:16:53
Speaker
So there's not a lot of sporting directors that walk in the room and say, oh no, no, actually, I'm the problem. Fire me. So you need ownership to shift. Exactly. Please just blame me. And that's it.
00:17:05
Speaker
So that therefore you end up in a situation where you need ownership to step in unless there's a president who sits above both sides who would make this call, which is hit or miss in MLS if there is. And for the most part, the ones that are, are even worse because they think they know soccer when they don't.
00:17:22
Speaker
I think this is what you're talking about. FC Cincinnati like that. Well, i was going to say there's a huge complaint in st Louis that I've heard a lot about. um And so the just the order of these things is, well, can we salvage it? So the coach goes first.
00:17:36
Speaker
If that doesn't work, then the sporting director goes first. Where it's fascinating is Austin, where both went at the same time. i don't remember anything like that happening before. Do you?
00:17:47
Speaker
At least in the middle of the year. Like I'm sure there's been years where they just cleaned shop and they said, we got to get rid of everybody. i guess you could even say that in some ways that's what happened in Kansas city. Yeah. Wolver Meese was both. Yeah. Which makes it a little bit tougher. No, I'm trying to think Toronto had Bill Manning but fired. And I don't remember if Robin was coach at the time or who was coach.
00:18:10
Speaker
They've also had a bunch of interims because of John Herdman and stuff like that. So I don't remember that situation, but no, you're right. It is fairly rare to have them both happen at the same time like this where it's not like an off season or contracts were up and right both were let go but the like normal working assumption is the sporting director will hire the coaches they hire the coaches for their system and so if yeah Now for Austin, you have to do one process.
00:18:42
Speaker
After you do that process, they have to start the next process. So like, I'd be surprised if Austin hired a new coach this season who coached this year. I think best case scenario is you finally land on a name in the fall and maybe you announce them and they are going to take over after, or they start coming around, which I always think is hilarious of like, okay, so you're coaching the team. You just sit in the stands, watch them lose. and And then you take over, like you're available. It's not like you'd strained a hamstring. You could coach. And that would, that would be my guess of what happened. And I think because of that, Davey Arnault probably has a legitimate shot at keeping that job. But I think we will see two or three others.
00:19:20
Speaker
I think Portland is more talented than Austin, the players they've brought in. And I think you have to convince yourself that you can make it work.
00:19:31
Speaker
Now, I'm not 100% will. But you have to, if you're like the ownership group, look at it. and so And like each guy is probably worth the value of what you paid for them.
00:19:43
Speaker
It was probably a mistake to pay that for all of them together. But you don't look at it and say, this guy's playing underneath his monetary value that we put out there or is capable of it.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah. To coast is probably the biggest one just because that's the one they probably most overpaid for, for what he does. i think he's a good soccer player. I just think they put him in the Evander category themselves, which was a mistake.
00:20:09
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. ah I guess. And so who are the other teams that you think are, you know, flirting with coaching changes during this, this long break?
Coaching Changes and Team Pressures in MLS
00:20:21
Speaker
So I think the assumption is Portland's one of them. Austin, we thought would be one of them. They clearly won't be. I think there is a lot of external pressure around the LA galaxy, ah which victory just give, a give him and a contract extension. They did just give him a contract extension.
00:20:42
Speaker
And I don't know exactly where that came from after the worst, not after, cause they did it last year, but the worst season in MLS history, but Jim Curtin got a contract and he got let go. And so it wouldn't be the first time um that it's ever happened. So I think those Philadelphia you is going to get talked about Toronto. I think we'll also get mentioned and a reminder Montreal and Orlando are on are on interim coaches right now. Columbus is on an interim coach. So when you look, here's just an example. Here's the non-playoff teams in the East.
00:21:14
Speaker
Orlando fired their coach. Toronto, we think, in trouble. Montreal fired their coach. Columbus fired their coach. And Atlanta and Philadelphia. So, like, it's kind of everyone who's not a playoff team.
00:21:27
Speaker
is in that territory in the Eastern Conference. In the West, I think it's a little bit less chaotic. And I think because you have San Diego and Colorado, the two teams outside who they either have new coaches or Varis who did well, where there's a ton of internal belief and they're not going to like panic into a coach move right now.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, turning our focus a little bit more to the West, you know, the last time we talked, it felt like the West was sort of just, you know, it was almost an embarrassment of riches at the top of the table where it felt like everyone had to win every game just to stay in the race.
00:22:05
Speaker
And in the interim, in the last two weeks, especially, there's been a lot of ah that's that, that has been tested a lot. You know, the Sounders only got four points in this ah three game week where they were all at home.
00:22:20
Speaker
And weirdly the one day one was the the one I thought was their toughest matchup. Uh, but then, you know, l LAFC suddenly is just absolutely falling apart. Uh, Vancouver has started to show some chinks.
00:22:33
Speaker
San Jose has started to show some chinks. I don't know if they're, you know, all of a sudden in the RSL continues to climb. ah Houston is the strangest team in the league right now for me. Like they, they have no ties. They have no ties. ah Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:49
Speaker
But I mean, they're not at the top of the the conference, but just that it's, it's, the it's gone. MLS, I guess is what it's happened is that it it has, but they go ahead.
00:23:01
Speaker
Oh, I would say so. The, the, base the original base of our convo, when we had, when we chatted last time was the West is stronger than the East. Yeah. That has not changed. I think sure the, my feeling is it's, it's deeper than we even said.
00:23:15
Speaker
Like I think Dallas is a legitimate contender inside of that group that we talked about last time. Sure.
Western vs. Eastern Conference Strength
00:23:21
Speaker
I think LAFC will remain in that. There'll be questions about Mark Dos Santos. That's probably one of the ones I should have said as well, but that one I think is more external than internal, the pressure on him.
00:23:31
Speaker
But they went to a CONCACAF semifinal, the games that that takes, the travel that takes, all of that. It's not unheard of. and And those are the teams that probably are best off with this long layoff.
00:23:42
Speaker
Because now rather than it be this full season thing where you never get your legs under you, like Seattle experienced in 21 and all of that, there's this reset where now you can come out of it.
00:23:54
Speaker
They also have some flexibility because Ustakia was on loan. So maybe they changed their team around. So like what I would say is I think there are six teams legitimately in the Western Conference. And that's not even talking about San Diego, which I don't think they've done enough to deserve to.
00:24:09
Speaker
Where in the East, I would say, there are two. So this experience over the last few weeks of like teams knocking each other off to me has only increased my feeling that interesting that the West is strong, but it does not increase my feeling that any specific one of these teams is has the best sort of lane to get there.
00:24:32
Speaker
Sure. um Like even San Jose, I think is the easiest one of, they played all their guys. They've had injuries. They're struggling. They've struggled to get some of these guys on the field, but they've still put really good performances in against the other top teams, like the loss in Seattle.
00:24:49
Speaker
It's not one where you hang your head and say, wow, we can't play with these guys. And that was without Nico Securus and without Werner and Preston Judd, you know, being rotated throughout the week. And then they did the same thing with Vancouver.
00:25:01
Speaker
It was a totally rotated lineup. Well, it's not rotated anymore because that's all they have left. Because yeah then they went into the next game, but totally. And so... Vancouver has missed Mueller this entire run and they remain at the top of the conference. So I think it has increased my feeling that the West is back over the last three years. I think the West has been down in the East in terms of Cincinnati and NYCFC, Philly on top of Inter Miami and sort of the class at the top of it have have pushed things. Columbus, of course.
00:25:32
Speaker
Now it feels like that has transferred to the West. And I do think I wouldn't be surprised if any of the teams that we just talked about won the Supported Shield or won MLS Cup. Yeah, the the one that's really surprised me recently is FC Dallas just seems to have suddenly gotten, ah you know, shown that they can they can really go toe-to-toe with some of the the big boys.
FC Dallas and Emerging Talent
00:25:53
Speaker
And this win over San Jose was particularly impressive because they they sort of had to keep, he like San Jose kept coming back, and they just kept guys kept pushing it farther. And then the the goal, we got to talk about the Sam Sarver Great. Isn't it great? it's It's amazing. I seriously want to ask Paul Rothrock what he thinks of Sam Sarver because it's like, it's I feel like they have some kinship in their sort of the way they got here and nice sort of the way that they're carrying themselves.
00:26:25
Speaker
But i am i was that was just ah um an amazing moment. And you know for a guy to kind of come out of MLS Next Pro, to start scoring some goals like he did, and then to just like embrace the moment I love it. I just love that, you know, the the scuba dive celebration, you know, whatever. I don't know if that was the the best celebration, but to do it in front of the the away, the home supporters and then to pick up a can that got through at you to shotgun a beer. I mean, that was that was that was that was pure MLS. That was great.
00:26:58
Speaker
It's personality that we just don't see from a lot of players. And one of the things I love about MLS, and I see this a lot because I cover NWSL, is a lot of these players who are not these anointed athletes from childhood...
00:27:14
Speaker
have personality. they have They are socialized in a way that most pro athletes aren't because pro athletes are just like raised on this track. And so you end up getting the Paul Rothrocks and the Andrew Thomases of the world. And Kosei Tafari at LAFC, he wants to be an actor. He wants to be a fashion designer.
00:27:35
Speaker
He speaks multiple languages. like You're not really getting that in MLB or NHL. like That's just not the lifestyle most of these people live. There's an interview on, i don't know, on Sky Sports or something with Cole Palmer where they're talking about, yeah it's like you talk about a guy who's just yeah has no real life.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah. And he's fun because he has no filter because he doesn't really care. And it's he's not really paying attention. But like, I want listen, I'm not the I'm not going to be the proponent only of college education is the only way things work. But what what happens with most of these people is they just become socialized because they live there. They're older when they get to the pro ranks. They live a life where they're not this anointed God and they have to operate in normal society.
00:28:21
Speaker
They have to learn to function for themselves to an extent. And this is something I know. talking to people, for example, in the Sounders Academy, when they do those loans to what the Austrian mountains, or Czech Republic, or even to USL championship teams.
00:28:35
Speaker
in it ah One of the comments I always get when I ask is, well, they got to learn how to cook dinner. Like they have to grow up as human beings. It happens in soccer more than it happens in these other sports because it's not as high profile as sport here. And the money is not the same. So it's not this like lotto ticket that everyone is building their lives around.
00:28:53
Speaker
And Paul Rothrock and Sam Sarver, I think are are two examples of that. And you see it on the other end of like, they're quirky, they're fun, they're intelligent, they're thinking about stuff and open to talking about stuff. um I've covered Sam Sarver since he was an Academy kid. He was on Aiden Morris and Sebastian Burrhalter's crew Academy teams.
00:29:12
Speaker
And... The comment has always been like, this kid plays like a madman. And it was just like, could you funnel him in the right direction to use all of the madman tendencies?
00:29:23
Speaker
And it wasn't right for him out of the academy. He went to Indiana, which is a great soccer program. He played high level soccer for three, four years there. Then he goes to Next Pro, which I have a lot of bones about whether or not Next Pro is the right setup for everything in terms of what it is. But I think playing soccer,
00:29:44
Speaker
is better than sitting on a bench and not having an opportunity to play soccer. I just would do it in the USL and have yourself going to Louisville and Charleston when you have those experiences. But no one asks me. um And he sort of like bid his time and found a space. But he's a super interesting guy. I think it's one of those, obviously, now that he's this darling, people will learn about him more.
00:30:05
Speaker
um He's talked a lot about mental health. In the past, he had some tough times as a kid that I know the Crew Academy helped him through. um And like he now has emerged in this really opportune spot. But this is the system that I think exists. And as much as people want to whine and complain like,
00:30:24
Speaker
Why are the kids going to college? That's not the way it's done overseas, blah, blah, blah. You're always going to miss players or players are always going to be, there are going to be some players who are ready later on. And that's why I'm happy that at least the net is bigger now that a guy like that can then find his spot.
00:30:39
Speaker
Well, and I think it's and it's not just, you know i think to probably to your point, it's not just going to college that's ah an important. It's that they live lives outside of the athlete bubble. And, you know, so many of these players in England, like they will, like to use an example, right? They'll go on loan. They'll those'll come through an academy and then sure, maybe they go on loan to Wrexham or they go on loan to some, you know, random club and they and they're just, but they're still,
00:31:08
Speaker
they're they're still kind of tied to the big club. They still are raised in an environment that is about where soccer players are gods, where they don't have to interact with normal people, where like all their friends are, you know, fellow academy players, where they're, you know, there's someone doing their laundry and doing all this kind of stuff. And then American system is just set up in a way that For the most part, kids are forced to go out and go to school and, you know, go to, you know, whether it's high school or whatever, but they have lives outside of their, outside of their teams a lot of times.
00:31:42
Speaker
And especially once they get, you know, if they don't go pro right away, you know, they're, ah they're, they're living normal. They're like normal
Culture Among American Soccer Players
00:31:51
Speaker
people. And I think that's what's so refreshing about the American soccer player. And the most part is that these guys want to, you know, they they want to have conversations with you. Like, I don't know, every single time I run into Paul Rothrock and he asked me you know, how are you doing? And it's not like a empty gesture of like, no, it's like, no, no, no, seriously. Like, how are your kids or whatever? And, ah and it's like, that's just not something you're used to athletes doing.
00:32:16
Speaker
And I think the other thing that I like is I do think it creates an environment where guys that come to MLS start to learn it here where, you know, you talk to foreign players who have always been in a different style and they come here and maybe they're uncomfortable at first, but like I chatted with Steven Marrera preseason and he's like open to sitting down and talking about his life and his experience. And he's telling me about the fights he had with Wilfred Nance and,
00:32:43
Speaker
the you know the the the experiences he goes through there and what it's going to be like when Darlington Nagby retires because he's his the heart and soul. And you know as a player coming here, like Nagby adopted him and he goes with his family. All these conversations that to what I understand from a lot of these guys, they just wouldn't have in other places. And I think some of that tone is set by you come into a locker room where someone else is acting that way with media. And so it sort of builds a trust and a relationship and a style um that you wouldn't really have. And I think it's obviously been massively...
00:33:16
Speaker
influential on the women's game of the push for equal pay was from players who were high achievers who had been through an experience of playing at UNC and Princeton and Stanford, whatever that the average athlete doesn't have. And it's not that those places are perfect, but they are forced to be intellectually challenged. Sometimes when they're in those places, they also rub shoulders with other people outside of their bubbles. So then as you grow up,
00:33:42
Speaker
into your professional career, your friends are in other fields, and you're learning about those fields, and you're watching them succeed where a lot of players, if you are AAU basketball, you would never really get out of that. And, you know, if you play for Chelsea's Academy at U12, probably most of the people you know are just soccer players. And that's sort of the the niche you're in. So yeah, I think it's really interesting.
00:34:03
Speaker
um Sam Starver is a great story. He's a like really cool personality. It's fun that he's just wearing it on his sleeve. And he's done for much as I think most people will say, ah wow, like, there's just a kid who doesn't know better. It's actually done a lot behind the scenes to like, make himself comfortable to be able to be this. And I think it's part of why he's playing really well.
00:34:25
Speaker
Well, and I think the you know like the the tell was a little bit, the next it wasn't like it was all just in the moment. The next day he went and did an Instagram post with... a bunch of six bucks. Got to Modelo money, baby. Yeah, that was gold. Yeah, it's so good. And Dallas is pretty good about like, you know, they're kind of like, yeah, let's take a shot. Let's see what happens where other teams might shut it down. And so to your point on the soccer side, I've always been really high on this Dallas team. Petar Musa, I think he might start a game for Croatia at the World Cup, which is wild to say.
00:34:57
Speaker
And it's not This is not Thomas Mueller coming here and working his way back into the team. Like this is a guy who is peeking into the national team because of his play in major league soccer. um I think he is the best complete forward in the league.
00:35:13
Speaker
And so that's a reference point that the rest of it all operates off of. And they found a little more possession this year. Not as much as I'd like. I think they've struck out in trying to help him.
00:35:24
Speaker
Santi Moreno is better than nothing, but is not the proper DP 10 that they should bring in because of how good this team can be. But most of the other pieces fit. And what I was talking about on, on my show on soccer wise, that when you watch the San Jose game, when they see a half opening, cause they defend deep and they find their triggers and they go and they press.
00:35:46
Speaker
it's a full 11 guys like dogs then in the other way. And so when they get, when they win the ball and they go in transition, it's not one or two, it's five to seven and they overwhelm you. And all of them are finishers and really good in those moments. And so I think that commitment to that style, plus the individual talent in a lot of the pieces that are in there, or a Gita is one of the best center backs ever.
00:36:12
Speaker
in the league. Uh, Colody has been a bit of a step down this year for him. So goalkeeper has been a problem. Sierra got the start in the last game, who I think is a solid um MLS keeper. And then up the spine, like that's something that this is a team that will have a shot in any elimination game they play.
00:36:28
Speaker
And if they can either improve the quality on the roster or just turn the screws to perfect what they do, they also have a shot to stay in a shield race. You know, and you had me thinking Peter Musa has to be like, this is a admittedly a niche first, but he's got to be one of the first, if not the first MLS player who came to MLS before he was really in the national team.
00:36:54
Speaker
got into the national team and it's not just a, but like to be with Croatia, like that's a pretty high level. yeah like We've seen players go from not being in the national team to being in a world cup, but not necessarily like a team of Croatia's stature. And I guess you could argue, ah Almada was Almada. Is that right?
00:37:16
Speaker
The, Argentine Argentine right yeah Tiago Amada yeah Tiago Amada like but he wasn't really like a important player for Argentina whereas Peter Musa could end up being like a real player for Croatia yeah I think Amada is obviously a huge one um I'm trying to think of other ones and I think I can say names are countries, but like there's been players who have done it with Poland, a couple, there have been players who have done it with like a Cameroon, um, a Nigeria. So like probably that level of team. I mean, it's hard for me to remember, but like Croatia have been to back to back world cups at my finals you know and a final in one. So they are a blue blood team, but that's a bit of an outlier. Like they don't have the player pool of a blue blood like a France, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, what you are saying is true, which is there are few, if any examples of a player in his profile. I mean, Cucho can't even get back into Colombia.
00:38:14
Speaker
And he went to La Liga. He qualified for Champions League. And now his club resume currently is better than all the other guys who they won't let him jump because when he was in MLS, they said it wasn't a good enough league.
00:38:27
Speaker
So that's one example. And then on the other side, Musa might start alongside Luka Modric in world cup game. And um yeah, he's been incredible.
00:38:38
Speaker
and I mean, the big question will be if he stays, if a guy like that goes and performs the way he's capable of performing, I don't know that Dallas can say no to the potential numbers
Peter Musa's Impact and Career
00:38:49
Speaker
that come in. They bought him for around 10 million.
00:38:51
Speaker
So like, it has to be a real offer. It can't just be a like, Oh, we never heard of this guy. Yeah, we'll grab him. But anything 25 or up, which you're the starting forward for Croatia, you score goals. Like we are talking about Hoffenheim and Leverkusen and Gladbach and Roma and, and you know, Atalanta, like that's where that guy normally plays.
00:39:10
Speaker
um That will be the huge question for Dallas. And I've normally been frustrated as a neutral with the decisions Dallas makes in those moments, which is, oh yeah, we'll take the money.
00:39:21
Speaker
Because they they they don't normally double down and say, no, no, no, we're going to win now. And then we promise. like like Part of their ethos is selling great. There is a way to do it to say, all right, let's do five months here, four months.
00:39:33
Speaker
Let's win a trophy. Then you're gone in January and we totally respect it. Dallas normally just takes the money. Yeah, I don't know that I can remember a time when they... you know Especially for a team that has had so few...
00:39:46
Speaker
cup finals. I think they have, they won us open cup in like nine, 16 or 17. Well, they won the supporter shield. Oh, great. Did they win the cup with, with you're right. And they haven't won an MS cup, I guess is what I'm thinking of.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah. But they've been to one in 2010. Right. But anyone else that you really think is that either is going to be moving within MLS or out of MLS based on maybe not a based on, but like this summer window, like who are some players that you think could be sort of in the shop?
00:40:23
Speaker
the young guys are the like obvious ones to start with. Like a Gozo is an obvious one. Whether he goes to the World Cup or not, his numbers and his profile, like for a guy that size with that speed and that touch, like he can play anywhere.
00:40:38
Speaker
So guys like that, I think are going to... there there is now a clear path to big clubs that want to come in and grab these players. And for them, buying between five and 10 million is getting in before it gets hot, right? That's sure like Gaga, Slonina, Caleb Wiley's like all of these guys. So my assumption is the number RSL has they probably will get that offer this summer, even if he doesn't make the World Cup, because that's the profile that he sits in. And that's where guys like that are viewed. Julian Hall will be one of those as well.
00:41:13
Speaker
um There's no question that offers will come in for him. One of the fascinating teams to watch is Wilfred Zaha is on loan. His loan ends this summer. I'd be surprised if he comes back, but also Charlotte's gone big game hunting.
00:41:26
Speaker
And Charlotte feels like one of the teams that if they go to their owner with a guy who was a flashy world cup player, that there is like a selling point there. I think there's like five to 10 MLS teams that will probably try and buy someone out of this world cup, whether that's purely for that reason, or if it's, well, they came here, they liked it here. We got a chance to meet their agent. Now we can, can we convince them to stay? Or now that the world cup's over that players ambitions at the national team level are shifted.
00:41:58
Speaker
can we get a shot to bring them in? So I think there are some obviously obvious clubs. And then the other one is Chicago. We think Robert Lewandowski is in talks with them. He would have to take a huge pay gap from Saudi Arabia where he is getting offers to go there. It is the biggest Polish community outside of Poland. And he is a legend.
00:42:18
Speaker
um Hugo Kuypers is one of the four or five best center forwards in this league. So either they have to fit together in that scenario, maybe Jonathan Bamba is available or has to be moved.
00:42:29
Speaker
If not, Kuypers might be on the move. And I think there are some smart and MLS teams that are going to be hunting for these in the summer. I think they're looking at other teams, DPs first before they're going overseas to say, can we get a little bit of a known quantity and get someone in the door and sort of be a dumping grounds? I wouldn't be surprised if a St. Louis is one of those.
00:42:49
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if a Colorado is one of those. I think there's a couple of these teams that can read the tea leaves well enough to say our best deal might be inside of MLS. Do you think a Dejan Jovulic could be on the move? I would just think because he wasn't signed by the current GM.
00:43:09
Speaker
He's a DP, but he's also got some value. ah He, you talk to him. He just, he is such a unique human being. He loves scoring goals. It's like the only thing that is on his in his life is scoring goals.
00:43:23
Speaker
So if he gets the chance to do it, no matter how bad the team is, I think this for him, he doesn't care. i think he very much like connects to the idea that's Kansas city believed in him.
00:43:34
Speaker
And if you're a front office, the guy does the thing he does well, even if, yeah, Let's say five years from now, David Lee has a plan for the way he wants his team to play. And Jovovich doesn't fit into that. Congratulations.
00:43:46
Speaker
You're five years away from that. And I don't think giving away a guy who will finish any chance that a team can barely create would be one that would move. So I you know i think there's like logic in that thought process of like what are the struggling teams?
00:44:01
Speaker
What are the assets that they can get rid of to start to recoup? Um, Mirto Azuni is probably on the move just because I don't know how Austin fits it all together. And if I'm Austin, I'd stick with Torres and I'd stick with Brandon Vasquez.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I just don't see an MLS team thinking that that's worth their investment or their money. Well, it's going to be a fascinating summer. That's for sure. You know, we got one more week before that, but you know, it'll be, it's going to be a season unlike any other. And then of course we'll have another season like any, unlike any other next year when they play 17, was it 17 games that they're playing? Yeah. The sprint
MLS Future Structure Speculations
00:44:40
Speaker
season. Oh, that's going be, that's going to be something. We're all secretly hoping we just do sprint seasons forever after this. And it's a Ligia and there's a Capitura Clausura. It make sense, doesn't it?
00:44:53
Speaker
I'm voting for it. Yeah. ah um mean, there's a lot of fun ways that you could structure it, I think, and it would be super interesting, but I'm not, no one's asking me for my opinions, I guess.
00:45:07
Speaker
okay Maybe I'll share them. ah
Partnership Announcements
00:45:09
Speaker
All right. Well, this, as people, as I kind of alluded to, this has been part of a ah partnership that Sounder at Heart is getting into with SoccerWise and Kickback Soccer.
00:45:20
Speaker
And I wanted to give you guys a little bit more of a chance to talk about what's going on at soccer
World Cup Coverage and Anticipation
00:45:26
Speaker
wise. What's going back at, uh, you guys have what? 48 previews or 48 features yeah on every team in the world cup on, on, um, on kickback. Is that right? No. On. Yeah. We have our first first touch feed. First touch. yeah Thank you. First touch. We're close. We're going to get there. eventually i know. I know. Yeah, our first touch feed. So we have we have a bio episode about the history of soccer in the country, some fun facts, sort of stories about cult legends or the way the game was built. There are some interviews in there um with people, whether it's journalists or current players or former players, um or just fans and people from those countries, we kind of have a good mix of all of it. So we did one for all 48 countries. So
00:46:12
Speaker
If you are just trying to find some stuff, you know, we've got music from each of those countries in the backgrounds. We've got some gold calls, all that type of stuff. Search first touch, which is our world cup feed.
00:46:23
Speaker
We are currently doing two shows a week that we are adding to those, which are more timely. One is a new show as we head into the world cup. The other one is more of these like evergreen stories that we're exploring.
00:46:34
Speaker
ah This week is a story about what it feels like to to be left off a world cup roster and, and that experience. But, We've done a number of stories there. Last week, we did a deep dive into James Rodriguez and what he means to Colombia and the history of the national team um and all of that. Some others have been more specific on topics.
00:46:51
Speaker
um We dug into some weird history moments that I wasn't aware of before. So it's been really fun. And then we will be doing a daily World Cup show once the World Cup starts on June 10th. And that will be available on that feed soccer wise, all of our others, and it will be live every day nine thirty am Eastern time on our YouTube pages, as well as streaming and a bunch of other places. So we're going to have a lot of the coverage here. We were talking before this started of like you know, for the World Cup, obviously, for us, we're going to cover it from a global stage and the big moments and the big games and all of that. It's not MLS specific. But one of the things that will be fun is there are these guys who pop up and for us, they're known entities. And for everyone else, it's going to be like, no one had ever heard of this guy. And
00:47:33
Speaker
You know, i was just getting ready, doing some notes and putting like Eloy room for Curacao in a depth chart as a starting keeper of like, he's going to have a game and everyone's going to be like, who, whoever knew. and it's like, oh, let me give you the five year history rate on your room or Derek Etienne probably will score a huge goal for Haiti at some point in this tournament. And because of the 48 teams, there's a lot of those. So I'm super excited for those.
00:47:56
Speaker
as terrible as a lot of this world cup feels, I'm starting to get a little bit of excitement of like, there's going to be super important, fun games that we all watch together.
00:48:07
Speaker
I mean, that's what, that's what a world cup is about. And I think at some point that part will come and we'll continue to talk about all the other stuff as well. um But that's the part that I think we're most looking forward to. And it it feels like we're, we've finally gotten little bit closer on some of that.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, I would totally agree. Like, I think there's a lot of valid complaints and criticisms of the World Cup and FIFA heading into this whole into this whole phase. But the reality is that once the games are coming, once the games are here and we're talking about it,
00:48:42
Speaker
I think it's going to be, you know, it's going to be soccer. It's going to be, it's going to be the most interesting, the most fun ah soccer event, sporting event in the world. And, and at some point that will take over.
00:48:54
Speaker
That doesn't diminish all this other stuff that's going on, but it, it does sort of, it's a reality. And you know i think I'm looking forward to the, I am still looking forward to the world cup being in Seattle. It's maybe not quite what I thought it was going to be, but we'll have some fun here. As people may know, we're, we're hosting a watch party for the U S Australia game with scuffed, which is a U S national team podcast. So people will be able to come out to that.
00:49:20
Speaker
And, and we'll be doing stuff in the, ah at, at our new recording studio, a ton. So hopefully we need to, Yeah. Get to get to meet some of y'all and thank you for, for doing this, David.
00:49:32
Speaker
And we'll continue. I assume we're going to keep doing this. Yep. Yeah. So we're going to keep talking. um If anyone's looking for some USMNT coverage, we have that. We've got Matt Doyle on with us every week. We'll be doing game previews, game reviews, and yeah, we'll keep talking MLS and NWSL because it's obviously the core of, I think for a lot of us, how we became fans and it's our connection point. So that stuff never goes away.
00:49:57
Speaker
All right. Well, David, thank you so much for doing this. ah Once again, that's soccer wise and kickback soccer and first touch. Those are all the, yeah to we nail those are the ones, right? All right, good.
00:50:08
Speaker
We got, we got it. We got it. All right. With all that said, I'm Jeremiah Sham. Let's get out of here. ah You're listening to no Sarietas on the center of heart podcast network, and we will catch you next time.
00:50:48
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.