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Love Is Blind S6 Ep 10-12: The Downfall of Chelsea and Jimmy and The “I Dos” That Did and Did Not Happen
80 Plays2 years ago
This week Leah and Dr. Greg recap episodes 10-12! We discuss the fight and final scene between Chelsea and Jimmy, what happened at the altar and things we can learn from our couples during these final episodes!
Thanks for joining our own journey following the journey of LIB Season 6! We hope you have enjoyed our takes and learned something new!
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Transcript
Introduction to Blind Love Skeptics
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to Blind Love Skeptics, where we dissect the highs, the lows, and the downright jaw-dropping moments of Love is Blind.
00:00:14
Speaker
I'm your host, Leah.
00:00:16
Speaker
I'm Dr. Greg.
00:00:17
Speaker
Buckle up, because we're about to dive deep into the roller coaster of emotions of Love is Blind Season 6.
Predictions and Accuracy Reflection
00:00:26
Speaker
Okay, where do you want to start?
00:00:28
Speaker
I mean, first of all, if you're listening to this right now, hopefully you've watched all the episodes up until the reunion.
00:00:35
Speaker
And you know who's gone to the altar and who hasn't and whatever.
00:00:39
Speaker
So how did we do with our predictions?
00:00:40
Speaker
Let's start there.
00:00:42
Speaker
I mean, I think we, it's like, I don't know, 50-50, basically, on my part, at least.
Kenneth and Brittany's Relationship End
00:00:48
Speaker
I think...
00:00:51
Speaker
I can't even remember my prediction.
00:00:52
Speaker
I think it's 50-50 because I think I thought Kenneth and Brittany were in it to win it.
00:00:59
Speaker
They fell apart so quickly.
00:01:01
Speaker
So fast.
00:01:02
Speaker
Yeah, so quickly.
00:01:03
Speaker
But I was definitely right about Chelsea and Jimmy.
00:01:07
Speaker
No, you were right.
00:01:07
Speaker
Did I think they'd get married?
00:01:09
Speaker
I can't even remember.
00:01:09
Speaker
I don't
Personal Connection to Jimmy's Struggles
00:01:10
Speaker
know.
00:01:10
Speaker
Well, I think you texted me the other day saying you felt something about Jimmy.
00:01:15
Speaker
Oh, should we talk about that?
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:19
Speaker
So I have my own, I feel like I have some counter transference with, would that be with Jimmy?
00:01:28
Speaker
I see myself in Jimmy from a recent relationship that was not good.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:36
Speaker
I feel like my ex, that person was a Chelsea.
00:01:43
Speaker
Anxiously attached.
00:01:44
Speaker
Is that what you're saying?
00:01:45
Speaker
Anxious attached and also just looking for problems where there were none.
00:01:52
Speaker
Granted, I think you're going to argue there were problems.
00:01:54
Speaker
I am absolutely going to take her side on this one.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yes.
Chelsea's Anxious Attachment Style
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:57
Speaker
Which, so yes, I don't think Jimmy's perfect by any means.
00:02:01
Speaker
And I think it's funny when I post on social media, there's some people that are like,
00:02:04
Speaker
upset that I wasn't upset with Jimmy or disparaging him.
00:02:08
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't love him, but in other words, you know what it feels like to be with someone who's oppressively anxious about your bond or something.
00:02:19
Speaker
And then it comes out in a controlling, very accusatory manner.
00:02:26
Speaker
And that's where I really was like,
00:02:28
Speaker
And I talked to friends and my dog park friends and like therapist friends and everyone was just frustrated with this whole situation.
00:02:35
Speaker
But I think especially because I've been in that dynamic where there's like no winning.
Impact of Alcohol on Relationships
00:02:41
Speaker
There's no winning.
00:02:42
Speaker
If someone goes into it with the lens of,
00:02:45
Speaker
Men fuck me over.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:47
Speaker
Women fuck me over, whatever.
00:02:49
Speaker
You know, I'm always cheated on.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, whatever it is.
00:02:52
Speaker
There, it's like that self-fulfilling hypocrisy.
00:02:56
Speaker
There's an intentional bias there.
00:02:58
Speaker
There's intentional bias.
00:02:59
Speaker
They're looking for things that confirm how fucked up the world is and whatever.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
So before our last, I think we hadn't seen this big fight, right?
00:03:08
Speaker
When you and I saw you.
00:03:09
Speaker
No.
00:03:09
Speaker
We spoke last.
00:03:10
Speaker
And
00:03:11
Speaker
That fight made me so uncomfortable and so angry with her for lots of reasons.
00:03:18
Speaker
A, she's drunk.
00:03:20
Speaker
And not, I'm not saying she is a drunk.
00:03:22
Speaker
They've had these conversations every time when she's been drinking.
Role of Production in Show Perception
00:03:25
Speaker
And he's been drinking, but she's noticeably drunk.
00:03:28
Speaker
So she's not thinking before she speaks.
00:03:30
Speaker
And she's just like flying by the seat of her pants.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, she's running with whatever she's feeling in that moment.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yes, which a lot of us do when we're under the influence, right?
00:03:39
Speaker
Like I think we feel even more emotional and like nostalgic.
00:03:42
Speaker
Like it intensifies our emotions.
00:03:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:47
Speaker
But I feel like she just like she drinks and then she's like that moment that he didn't, you know, say I love you back.
00:03:55
Speaker
And then she just fixates on it.
00:03:56
Speaker
And then she just creates this narrative in her head that he doesn't love her and he's running around in the bars.
00:04:05
Speaker
Doing God knows what.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:09
Speaker
We may find out that he was doing God knows what in the reunion.
00:04:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:14
Speaker
Did you have that sneak peek?
00:04:16
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:16
Speaker
I thought I saw something.
00:04:17
Speaker
Oh no.
00:04:18
Speaker
But, but yeah, you're talking about this narrative that she's built.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:23
Speaker
I don't, well, we should talk about that too.
00:04:25
Speaker
Cause okay.
00:04:25
Speaker
So this is, so that's my thing is I think I'm extra sensitive probably to this dynamic.
00:04:30
Speaker
And obviously a lot of this is produced.
00:04:32
Speaker
So we don't know what happens behind the scenes.
00:04:35
Speaker
Like she even says, you told me about this, about your friend that, that you two slept together a while back.
00:04:40
Speaker
And he's like, I did that in confidence, which I think is fair that he did that off camera for his friend's sake, who's not signing up to be on love is blind.
00:04:47
Speaker
Right.
00:04:48
Speaker
Um,
00:04:50
Speaker
So there's more, obviously, like I and I think in every season, we're no we're learning that we learned that there was a domestic violence situation the last season that they didn't air at all.
00:04:59
Speaker
Right.
00:05:00
Speaker
Like they didn't air that at all.
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker
So there's like a lot.
00:05:02
Speaker
So there's a lot clearly that's produced because it's entertainment.
00:05:06
Speaker
Also, too, in social media, people are commenting like.
00:05:10
Speaker
So angrily, like they're actors and I'm like, I'm not taking this like.
00:05:14
Speaker
Like, I'm taking this with a grain of salt, right?
00:05:16
Speaker
We're just consuming it like everyone else with a take from our therapeutic clinical lens.
00:05:27
Speaker
But anyways, so yeah, there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I do think I'm extra...
00:05:33
Speaker
sensitive to Chelsea's behaviors because I've seen in my personal life.
00:05:36
Speaker
I've also seen it in a lot of the clients that I've worked with.
00:05:39
Speaker
And there's no talking out when you are set on this belief and this theory.
Understanding Relationship Dynamics: Chelsea vs. Jimmy
00:05:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:48
Speaker
But let me ask you the question, which is which of the two, Chelsea or Jimmy had a more accurate perspective or view of their actual connection?
00:05:59
Speaker
Because Jimmy has this narrative, which in the last conversation they have in episode 12, where he like pins this breakup basically that's happening on this one thing that she was said, which was that, what is it?
00:06:14
Speaker
Johnny and Amy were the strongest couple.
00:06:16
Speaker
So he keeps going back to this because he had built this narrative.
00:06:19
Speaker
He brought this up several times that they were like the best couple, the strongest couple, whatever.
00:06:24
Speaker
That wasn't fucking true.
00:06:26
Speaker
Never was.
00:06:27
Speaker
So who had the more accurate perspective of their actual connection?
00:06:30
Speaker
I think Chelsea did.
00:06:32
Speaker
I think Chelsea was reading the room.
00:06:34
Speaker
I think she actually could see that this guy was saying something about their relationship that wasn't even true, I don't think.
00:06:43
Speaker
Wait, I'm confused.
00:06:44
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:06:45
Speaker
Let's break this down.
00:06:46
Speaker
Wait, so you're saying his reasoning is because she said this one comment.
00:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, that was like the last straw.
00:06:52
Speaker
Well, one of the last straws, that and then she didn't know if he actually loved her.
00:06:58
Speaker
It was also something that he mentioned.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:00
Speaker
At particular points in their conflict that really kind of... And I'm saying like,
00:07:07
Speaker
this guy was talking about the relationship in ways that wasn't even accurate to the conflict and the dynamic that actually was.
Expressiveness and Emotional Intelligence in Love
00:07:15
Speaker
You mean like that she was not like he wasn't, she's, she's both insecure and there's that turmoil there, but also that he was his affect and his showing up in the relationship was not consistent with being like this amazing connection that he was craving this person that he was expressing his love to him in a genuine hurt in genuine way.
00:07:35
Speaker
Never did I look at his eyes and see like a genuine expression of like him actually loving this person or being in love with her in his eyes.
00:07:43
Speaker
I hear you.
00:07:44
Speaker
So this is where I wanted to ask you where I had this.
00:07:48
Speaker
So I had my like psychoanalysis of myself and I was like, I'm clearly biased in a lot of ways because of the work I do and because of my own personal experiences.
00:07:55
Speaker
And then I was like, Dr. Greg, though, this is my take on you.
00:07:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:08:00
Speaker
You are a therapist.
00:08:01
Speaker
You're a male, but you're a therapist and you are in touch.
00:08:05
Speaker
You have emotional intelligence.
00:08:06
Speaker
You're in touch with your feelings.
00:08:07
Speaker
You know what you're looking for.
00:08:10
Speaker
You are very self-reflective.
00:08:11
Speaker
You're evolved.
00:08:13
Speaker
Thank you for that.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
I'll take it.
00:08:16
Speaker
you are not the average Joe when it comes to these people on these TV shows.
00:08:24
Speaker
Leading and not being like, because I met great men that are in touch with their emotions that are evolved in this way.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's not common, but I have.
00:08:34
Speaker
It's like, no, I'm not saying you're the only one, but these men aren't showing up typically for these shows.
00:08:40
Speaker
And I was going to say, so I had a couple of thoughts.
00:08:42
Speaker
I was thinking,
00:08:43
Speaker
I think you, you could tell me if I'm right.
00:08:47
Speaker
I think you were right about the crave and the chemistry between him and Jess.
00:08:51
Speaker
And I think for you, that was like, there's, it's clearly, there's a clear difference.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I'm wondering, A, if you're like, that's kind of been your lens this entire time with them.
00:09:01
Speaker
And maybe you're overlooking some of the connection that they do have, which I don't know if there is much of a connection.
00:09:07
Speaker
My other thought was, do we think
00:09:13
Speaker
that maybe he's just not an expressive guy, which is kind of what I was thinking.
00:09:16
Speaker
Like, like I do, like, I know like friends, partners that are not as,
00:09:22
Speaker
they don't show their affect, their emotions.
00:09:25
Speaker
They don't wear their heart on their sleeve.
00:09:26
Speaker
And it's not because they're like, I don't know if it's cultural sometimes or if it's just like, they're just not expressive.
00:09:32
Speaker
They're more left brainers.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:35
Speaker
But what do you think about that?
00:09:36
Speaker
Like, do you think that's a possibility?
00:09:38
Speaker
Well, I absolutely, the second
Sexual Chemistry vs. Deep Love
00:09:40
Speaker
piece to this, what you were saying about the expressiveness in terms of like facial expressiveness is,
00:09:44
Speaker
I keep referencing.
00:09:45
Speaker
I keep referencing this.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
His eyes.
00:09:47
Speaker
You're like in his eyes.
00:09:49
Speaker
His eyes.
00:09:49
Speaker
I mean, I don't know.
00:09:51
Speaker
Some of our listeners would probably agree with me that we can tell us something about our emotional connection in our eye contact.
00:09:59
Speaker
But anyway, I agree with you.
00:10:02
Speaker
If you're growing up in some particularly Anglo, non-effective, expressive
00:10:09
Speaker
family environment and not seeing someone like making like, and if you're watching this video right now, you know, you can see my face.
00:10:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:17
Speaker
You're very expressive.
00:10:18
Speaker
Like you know how to do that.
00:10:20
Speaker
You have the skills.
00:10:21
Speaker
So it's a skill.
00:10:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:22
Speaker
Then thank you very much for saying that because I think it's a skills thing.
00:10:26
Speaker
I think everybody ought to know how to express emotions, not only verbally, but through their face, through the tone of their voice and practice that.
00:10:35
Speaker
Got a lot of practice with that.
00:10:36
Speaker
So yeah, so Jimmy maybe just has skills deficits and they could actually have connections beyond, to your first point, beyond like a mmm yum kind of sexual connection.
00:10:48
Speaker
My other question for you, that was, I was at Asus, and this is, I think, just more generally in your couple, you do a couple's work.
00:10:53
Speaker
I don't.
00:10:54
Speaker
So do you feel like there it's possible for couples to have deep love for each other without, without the crate, not within without the crate that there's no attraction, but it's not like fiery.
00:11:04
Speaker
Like, I do think there are couples that are completely happy with one another.
00:11:08
Speaker
Maybe they're not as sexually driven.
00:11:11
Speaker
They're attracted to each other, but they don't want to like rip each other's clothes off.
00:11:13
Speaker
And I think they're fine.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:15
Speaker
Would you agree with that?
00:11:16
Speaker
The people who are fine, I would agree with that.
00:11:17
Speaker
I think the people who are fine, because this is on a continuum, a spectrum of our sexuality.
00:11:23
Speaker
So we have on one side, asexuality and the other side, I don't know, hypersexuality, you know, but bottom line is that there's a spectrum.
00:11:31
Speaker
So I would say for people,
00:11:34
Speaker
who are less driven sexually, like, and there are people, I work with clients like this all the time, where their level of desire is not particularly high.
00:11:41
Speaker
If they match well, if there's good compatibility between them and their partner, then maybe the frequency and the quality of the sexual experience and connection is gonna be fine for them.
Certainty and Doubt in Lifelong Commitment
00:11:51
Speaker
But if, particularly in couples where there's a mismatch, you're gonna see that being an issue.
00:11:57
Speaker
And that's where maybe there's a mismatch.
00:11:59
Speaker
Chelsea's like really.
00:12:01
Speaker
She is.
00:12:01
Speaker
I think she's very, she probably has a healthy sexual drive.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
And actually he could, I guess is what we're saying too.
00:12:07
Speaker
And it's just not with her.
00:12:08
Speaker
So we don't, so it's hard to, and I guess it is hard to obviously say when we get these snapshots of this six week period, we don't really know.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
that you're really, you're thinking there's a lack in the eyes.
00:12:21
Speaker
We know it.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah, we know it ends.
00:12:24
Speaker
We understand it ends.
00:12:25
Speaker
He says to her, I'm not going to the altar.
00:12:29
Speaker
I don't know if he was trying to keep open the idea of being in a relationship.
00:12:32
Speaker
We all know in this show that once you pass a certain point,
00:12:37
Speaker
it's hard to go back if there's in a sense that you're moving forward.
00:12:41
Speaker
It's like not gonna happen.
00:12:43
Speaker
It's not gonna happen.
00:12:44
Speaker
Here's my question to you, and this applies to both Chelsea and Jimmy, but also Aidy and Clay.
00:12:50
Speaker
How certain, Leah, do you think you have to be
00:12:54
Speaker
To make a lifelong commitment.
00:12:56
Speaker
Pretty certain.
00:12:56
Speaker
Like marriage.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:58
Speaker
Pretty certain.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:00
Speaker
I think, and I've talked to this with clients too about their own.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think there's always just humans have doubt.
00:13:04
Speaker
They have curiosity.
00:13:05
Speaker
They have thoughts of what if, like they have fantasies, right?
00:13:07
Speaker
Not like fantasies where it's like they're obsessing about someone else in that sense.
00:13:11
Speaker
But like, I do know people who have not dated.
00:13:14
Speaker
They've married someone in their early twenties and there's like the what ifs and they're very content, but there's this curiosity and that's okay.
00:13:21
Speaker
That's healthy.
00:13:21
Speaker
And, or this doubt of like,
00:13:24
Speaker
What if I would have married this other person or pursued something with this person?
00:13:29
Speaker
But I think you have to be fucking certain.
00:13:30
Speaker
I think you have to be really certain.
00:13:32
Speaker
And so I know I'm not team Jimmy, which now it seems like I am.
00:13:37
Speaker
But I appreciate that he didn't go to the altar.
00:13:41
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:13:41
Speaker
No, he did a good job with that.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
Well done, Jimmy.
00:13:45
Speaker
Like that would have that's humiliating.
00:13:48
Speaker
But did he do it on time?
00:13:51
Speaker
Could he have done it earlier?
00:13:53
Speaker
Because we want to do that, right?
00:13:55
Speaker
Would you agree with that?
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:56
Speaker
We want to communicate.
00:13:58
Speaker
It was only six weeks.
00:13:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:59
Speaker
All right.
00:14:03
Speaker
Could he have done it two days earlier?
00:14:05
Speaker
I mean, I think he probably could have.
00:14:08
Speaker
I think I really do think he wants marriage.
00:14:12
Speaker
I think he I and I don't know, maybe he's like in it for the clout and to get Instagram followers as most of these people are.
00:14:19
Speaker
But I I do think he wanted it.
00:14:21
Speaker
And I think he was like maybe hoping for something to change, maybe within him even.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:26
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, he could have probably done it earlier, but I'm glad they didn't walk down the aisle.
00:14:29
Speaker
I mean, I get where she'd be upset.
00:14:32
Speaker
She's like, we picked out our song.
00:14:34
Speaker
We did all these, like, you know, we were fine tuning these details for our wedding ceremony.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:40
Speaker
I think too, it's hard with, again, with the producing, he's saying like, this is my person.
00:14:44
Speaker
I found my person.
00:14:45
Speaker
I love her, blah, blah, blah.
00:14:46
Speaker
He's saying all these things.
00:14:48
Speaker
And what he's saying to her is, I don't want to go to the aisle with you, which I think is fair because he doesn't want to have to say, I don't want to marry you in this moment.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:14:55
Speaker
But I think it is, I can see where she would be upset.
00:15:01
Speaker
And she's the last person you want to do that to.
00:15:05
Speaker
She's the last person you want to bail on the altars to.
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's true.
00:15:09
Speaker
I mean, I guess that's true, too.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:11
Speaker
So good job, Jimmy.
00:15:12
Speaker
Good decisions.
00:15:13
Speaker
Good decisions.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
I don't know.
00:15:17
Speaker
I feel she's something and I just wish her well.
00:15:20
Speaker
I really do hope she's I'm sure I hope she's connected to some therapist in the last
Family Dynamics and Relationship Decisions
00:15:25
Speaker
year and has done some serious work.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:30
Speaker
She might need some more after this.
00:15:32
Speaker
Let's go back to this question because I think there's a life lesson, I think, in this about what does it feel like to be ready to get married?
00:15:41
Speaker
And I say this because I've worked with many couples who are at this point where they're like, we've been together for five years and we're still not engaged.
00:15:49
Speaker
What's going on?
00:15:50
Speaker
I want to be married to you.
00:15:52
Speaker
Where are you?
00:15:53
Speaker
And that's a question that I've tackled with clients.
00:15:56
Speaker
And where I come down on this is there's like a realistic view.
00:15:59
Speaker
It's a very realistic view.
00:16:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:02
Speaker
And this could even be with your soulmate even, right?
00:16:04
Speaker
If you believe in that sort of thing, that one person will always initiate the conversation.
00:16:09
Speaker
There's always, how does a conversation begin?
00:16:12
Speaker
Right.
00:16:13
Speaker
One person is going to be a little bit more sure than the other person.
00:16:16
Speaker
That person is going to raise the
00:16:18
Speaker
like the idea of being and making that kind of commitment.
00:16:21
Speaker
And then that will fluctuate.
00:16:23
Speaker
You don't have to be exactly at the same level of confidence.
00:16:27
Speaker
However, as we could tell with Adie and Clay,
00:16:32
Speaker
It was, there was, I don't know.
00:16:35
Speaker
There was maybe some, she says, AD says, there's going to be times when you have to lean on me for confidence around something.
00:16:42
Speaker
Sometimes I'm going to lean on you.
00:16:43
Speaker
That's fair, by the way.
00:16:44
Speaker
It's like a very reasonable view.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:46
Speaker
On this one, there was like too much leaning on.
00:16:49
Speaker
There was too much of, she had a image of them.
00:16:53
Speaker
She had imagined and dreamed something that was too far from where they actually were.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:00
Speaker
Your thoughts on that?
00:17:01
Speaker
I agree.
00:17:01
Speaker
Well, and she even said at the end of this last episode for the reunion, I would have said yes again and kind of this I'm ride or die.
00:17:11
Speaker
I gave it my all.
00:17:12
Speaker
I think
00:17:14
Speaker
And she kept saying, I'm not enough.
00:17:16
Speaker
So I think there's a part of her who thinks like, if I wanted enough, if I show up for him enough, if I put in the work, it can work.
00:17:24
Speaker
And I don't buy that.
00:17:25
Speaker
Two people have to want it and have to put in the effort.
00:17:28
Speaker
And I agree that there's usually one person who's more sure, who's more like even secure, right?
00:17:33
Speaker
Just like-
00:17:34
Speaker
Whatever it is.
00:17:35
Speaker
Healthy relationships, yes.
00:17:36
Speaker
Right.
00:17:37
Speaker
And I think that's typical.
00:17:40
Speaker
But I think she would have preferred even to go through with the vows, getting married, and work through the hardship after, where he was like, not for me.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you.
00:17:57
Speaker
And again, this isn't my scope in my practice, marriage and like, how do you know with couples?
00:18:02
Speaker
But I do think it's normal and human to have some smidge of doubt or like just like a thought, right?
00:18:09
Speaker
Totally normal.
00:18:10
Speaker
But he was beyond the thought.
00:18:12
Speaker
And he, I think what I was saying from the beginning, I don't think he's a bad person either, but he just like fixated on one person.
00:18:20
Speaker
Like, can I do this with one person?
00:18:22
Speaker
Can I commit to this one person?
00:18:24
Speaker
And this fixation of-
00:18:27
Speaker
not being able to break the cycle of cheating and infidelity.
00:18:30
Speaker
And she can't talk him out of that.
00:18:33
Speaker
That's all his own shit.
00:18:35
Speaker
And his mom even said, like, if you're not sure, you're not sure.
00:18:37
Speaker
Like, this is on you.
00:18:39
Speaker
And you see a lot with his dad and why he is the way he is.
00:18:43
Speaker
Like, just in those minimal interactions, I was going to ask you about this because
00:18:49
Speaker
one thing i thought was so interesting i thought it he said i love you when he was turned around the dad because clearly he's not good with his emotions yeah yeah and at first i didn't think he said it and then i was like okay he's just like very close like there's this very like this is what this is what a man is and i'm going to say it as i'm leaving and you're not going to see my affect and you're not going to see this moment on camera between me and my son but i know he it's clear he loves him it's also clear
00:19:18
Speaker
that he's still stuck in his ways and his perception of like what it means to be a man and all that.
00:19:24
Speaker
And it's all about appearances.
00:19:25
Speaker
He said that thing about, you know, Clay's like, should I go talk to her?
00:19:29
Speaker
And he goes, you don't want to appear as indifferent.
00:19:33
Speaker
And it was so this performance.
00:19:34
Speaker
Performative, yes.
00:19:35
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:19:36
Speaker
And that was, that was hard for me to watch because I wanted, and again, like this comes from probably like generational,
00:19:46
Speaker
family generational things of what they've been taught, what's in their lineage of family, like what they've learned it means to be a man.
00:19:54
Speaker
And we know where it comes from, but it was just so hard to watch because- Yeah.
00:19:59
Speaker
Well, it's hard to watch because he goes in there and then-
00:20:02
Speaker
To me, it seems like he's trying to convince her that she's still his person, but he's filmed as saying, this was someone that I wasn't in love with.
00:20:11
Speaker
I wasn't in love with this woman.
00:20:13
Speaker
He's like, it was a matter of finances.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:15
Speaker
Finances, and I'm not madly in love with her.
00:20:17
Speaker
I'm not madly in love with her.
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:19
Speaker
I want to say really quick, so that was upsetting that that was the case.
00:20:24
Speaker
Obviously there's intergenerational stuff in all of our families.
00:20:28
Speaker
And we're all trying to do it a little bit better than the folks who, you know, if we can, if we can pull that off.
00:20:35
Speaker
And there's definitely change there.
00:20:36
Speaker
And if we have insight, right?
00:20:37
Speaker
Like that's the key too, is knowing.
00:20:38
Speaker
If you have insight and taking action, insight and then action.
00:20:41
Speaker
But the thing I want to come back to, because this religious whatever thing was highlighted earlier in the series, everybody's talking about God and whatever else.
00:20:49
Speaker
And when he proposed to her, he had read something from the Bible, trust in the Lord your God, blah, blah, blah, and it goes on.
00:20:57
Speaker
And I just want to say very quickly something about faith.
00:21:01
Speaker
So I believe in a fierce, healthy love, there is faith.
00:21:05
Speaker
Faith is a belief and trust in each other and in the relationship, to my mind.
00:21:12
Speaker
You can also believe and trust in God and that's ordained, whatever else, that's fine.
00:21:16
Speaker
You can have those beliefs too.
00:21:17
Speaker
But to believe in each other,
00:21:20
Speaker
So there's an amount of faith that's required.
00:21:23
Speaker
And that faith, I hope for everybody who's listening to this right now, and you and I, Leah, that faith is built on evidence.
00:21:31
Speaker
Right.
00:21:31
Speaker
So we, there is a leap, right?
00:21:33
Speaker
There is, I don't think you have to be a hundred percent confident to get married.
00:21:37
Speaker
I think you have to be very close to that.
00:21:40
Speaker
And then there's a part of faith there, a belief and trust in each other that you're going to continue to grow together and that you're going to, you know, love life together as best as you can.
00:21:49
Speaker
So I hope that we don't, if we have any uncertainty, as we were, you were mentioning earlier, that we don't see that as like a, a no or a reason to walk away.
00:22:02
Speaker
Do you think, it sounds like you think she, or not, I'm not, it sounds like based on your, I like this, like this idea of faith in a relationship, it sounds like she had faith and he did not.
00:22:12
Speaker
No, no.
00:22:13
Speaker
And on top of that, he had what you had said already, which is his own stuff, which was his own self-doubt.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
About his ability to do it.
00:22:22
Speaker
And by the way, for those of us who were in families where our parents were married for decades, I,
00:22:31
Speaker
that is not a measure of success.
00:22:33
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:22:34
Speaker
So what is the measure is the quality of the relationship.
00:22:37
Speaker
And obviously we know in his example, there was a lot of infidelity and he was present during that infidelity and all that stuff.
Trend of Breaks and Reunions in Relationships
00:22:43
Speaker
But, you know, the last thing I'm going to say about this is 80, you deserve the kind of love that you, you believe in and clay, yo, you let me down.
00:22:55
Speaker
I thought, I thought you were going to get there, man.
00:22:57
Speaker
I thought you were going to get there.
00:22:58
Speaker
And you know what?
00:22:59
Speaker
I still don't.
00:23:00
Speaker
I still like him.
00:23:01
Speaker
It's funny.
00:23:02
Speaker
But I think I see all the layers.
00:23:05
Speaker
And I'm really glad actually we saw a lot of the family dynamics throughout this.
00:23:08
Speaker
That was really helpful because you see the influences and why he is...
00:23:17
Speaker
here in this place mentally like you can see it it's very clear to me oh yeah and um i think it just i think ad put it all on her to make it work and i also don't think that that's going to sustain so
00:23:34
Speaker
I don't know if I won't share the spoiler, but I think they're still together or they were together back in Thanksgiving.
00:23:40
Speaker
So I'm curious what's going to happen too after they view it.
00:23:43
Speaker
Right.
00:23:44
Speaker
And they viewed all this and they've seen even the ceremony, what's going to happen.
00:23:50
Speaker
I mean, that Thanksgiving was a few months ago, but I am curious and I would hope that
00:23:59
Speaker
I would hope that if they are together, that he really is going to therapy and that she's not making it her job to keep him faithful and to carry the relationship.
00:24:13
Speaker
That's all I can hope for with her because I adore her and I just hope.
00:24:17
Speaker
And maybe she goes to therapy too and does some more work because I want her to fully believe in herself and
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
Well, the fact that they're back together again, I don't know, is necessarily a good sign.
00:24:28
Speaker
I started seeing maybe like five years ago in my clinical practice that people started, there were more and more breaks in relationships, people getting back together multiple times.
00:24:38
Speaker
That more and more, that's a trend in my own clinical practice.
00:24:41
Speaker
So I don't like
Peaceful Dynamics vs. Performative Weddings
00:24:42
Speaker
any of that.
00:24:42
Speaker
No breaks.
00:24:43
Speaker
All right.
00:24:44
Speaker
You can go nice and slow and steady, slow and steady versus get to a place, break up, try to get back.
00:24:51
Speaker
Don't do that.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:53
Speaker
We should talk more about that in a future conversation if I have questions.
00:24:58
Speaker
Our next podcast series.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
I guess just Amy and Johnny are our next couple.
00:25:04
Speaker
Amy and Johnny.
00:25:06
Speaker
I love them and I really have no notes.
00:25:08
Speaker
I think they're both quirky and sweet and
00:25:13
Speaker
like well-matched and well-adjusted for the most part.
00:25:19
Speaker
I was going to ask, I have a feeling, I'm curious what you think about their sex life.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, I have something about this.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, share.
00:25:26
Speaker
Please share.
00:25:27
Speaker
Well, first of all, let me say that I was, I don't know what was your emotional experience of their wedding, but I was crying.
00:25:39
Speaker
That's sweet.
00:25:40
Speaker
I don't know.
00:25:40
Speaker
That might be my own.
00:25:41
Speaker
So, you know, obviously I was married before.
00:25:43
Speaker
So I've had the experience of like standing up there and watching the person who I had married walk down the aisle.
00:25:49
Speaker
So maybe that there was a little bit of that going on for me, but.
00:25:52
Speaker
Nostalgia.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:53
Speaker
Well, you know, it's a powerful, it's a powerful moment, you know, for anybody who's going through that.
00:25:59
Speaker
Between the two of them.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:01
Speaker
do have a faith in each other so i was definitely crying it was i'm happy for them and you know what's funny as i say sorry i mean i was gonna say something i noticed about them and in other like shows previous seasons of the love is blind they walk down very peacefully like content but peaceful they weren't like you know how some couples like wait wait
00:26:23
Speaker
And it's like this like feet.
00:26:25
Speaker
They just seem so peaceful and content with each other.
00:26:29
Speaker
Like there was, it wasn't like they were not happy, but they were just like chill.
00:26:33
Speaker
And I thought that just kind of embodied everything we talked about of this piece.
00:26:39
Speaker
And they just have that with each other.
00:26:41
Speaker
Like they were clearly happy.
00:26:42
Speaker
They did these, you know, they had these moments on camera where they're like, I think there was like a swing or they're sitting next to each other and like, I don't know.
00:26:48
Speaker
They're very sweet.
00:26:49
Speaker
But like right after when they're walking back,
00:26:52
Speaker
or walking down the aisle together, they just seemed very content and very secure.
00:26:58
Speaker
I just thought that was very sweet.
00:26:59
Speaker
I think that actually, for me, was the most interesting.
00:27:03
Speaker
It wasn't a big show of it.
00:27:05
Speaker
It was just like, this is it.
00:27:08
Speaker
And we're off.
00:27:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:27:10
Speaker
I would agree with you.
00:27:12
Speaker
I think for some couples, weddings can be performative.
00:27:16
Speaker
You cannot even be there in your own experience.
00:27:18
Speaker
You could be like...
00:27:19
Speaker
So we hope that not that you have those kind of experiences, but the two that they had that experience maybe as evidence of the fact that they realize that nothing changes when we get married.
00:27:31
Speaker
Like we are the couple that we are when we enter marriage.
00:27:34
Speaker
There's nothing magical that happens.
00:27:37
Speaker
And so, you know,
00:27:39
Speaker
If through that transition of becoming a couple, they are just as happy and relaxed and peaceful and whatever, right?
00:27:48
Speaker
Then they probably have something figured out
Skepticism of Love Without Physical Interaction
00:27:51
Speaker
there.
00:27:51
Speaker
I like, and I think that's, I think you need to like, I think we should be, what is it?
00:27:59
Speaker
Like, you know, in sports where commentators, I think we should come.
00:28:03
Speaker
Let's do this.
00:28:05
Speaker
I wonder if they'll have us, but I was, because I would love you to like,
00:28:08
Speaker
Like, I would love you to really hone in on the eyes in these moments.
00:28:13
Speaker
Like, what are the eyes doing?
00:28:15
Speaker
And like, just like the body language.
00:28:17
Speaker
But because I think after our conversations, the piece is what I really focused in on and was like, it wasn't the super, it wasn't anticlimactic, but it wasn't this big performance, like you said, and it just felt right.
00:28:28
Speaker
And it wasn't like anything for anyone else other than themselves, I guess.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I really appreciated that.
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:37
Speaker
So I don't think their success in this experience or experiment has anything to do with that love is blind.
00:28:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:47
Speaker
Can I just be very clear here?
00:28:49
Speaker
I am still a skeptic here.
00:28:51
Speaker
At the end of- I am too.
00:28:53
Speaker
Well, one couple of the five couples of the 30 people.
00:28:58
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:59
Speaker
Right.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:59
Speaker
So- Go ahead.
00:29:01
Speaker
No, no, go ahead.
00:29:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:03
Speaker
But I think what we found is like, this is what we've actually observed.
00:29:07
Speaker
This is my opinion here.
00:29:08
Speaker
What we actually observed was that you can fall in love with someone and connect with someone and have a sexual connection to someone who you might not imagine you would be attracted to.
00:29:22
Speaker
But when you actually meet them, you are sexually attracted to them and you are connected to them.
00:29:27
Speaker
And we also find out, I think, although you may disagree with me, that you can still not have premarital sex and get married and go through the whole thing.
00:29:39
Speaker
Because I don't know.
00:29:40
Speaker
I sort of believe that they didn't have sex.
00:29:43
Speaker
I believe that too.
00:29:44
Speaker
I don't think she's lying.
00:29:45
Speaker
I think she's like, we did other stuff.
00:29:46
Speaker
And I think they, I think there may have been no penetration in the right.
00:29:51
Speaker
And I think that's what they're talking about.
00:29:53
Speaker
There was no penetrative intercourse.
00:29:54
Speaker
It was maybe oral sex or whatever else.
00:29:57
Speaker
So they're, you know, enjoying each other in some way, shape or form.
00:29:59
Speaker
But yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
So is that too risky?
00:30:02
Speaker
Leah?
00:30:03
Speaker
Is that a, is that a big risk in your mind?
00:30:05
Speaker
To go in love is blind.
00:30:07
Speaker
No.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:07
Speaker
I would think that would have made you to marry someone, to marry someone who you've never had intercourse with.
00:30:15
Speaker
I think they did other stuff.
00:30:16
Speaker
I really, I think there was a chemistry and intercourse is a different thing.
00:30:21
Speaker
It is and it isn't though.
00:30:22
Speaker
Like how you, like we were talking about dancing, right?
00:30:25
Speaker
I mean, he is not a great dancer, but like we were talking about like movement and rhythm.
00:30:30
Speaker
And I think like even making out, you can kind of get a sense of what it's going to be like to be even more intimate.
00:30:37
Speaker
So I don't think, I mean, I can't, I'm not, that's not where I'm at in life where I'm going to take a leap and not have sex with my partner.
00:30:48
Speaker
But yeah.
00:30:50
Speaker
I think other forms of intimacy can help you kind of assess.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I think what Brittany was saying, if we're going back to Brittany, of like she wants to still make out and she wants to crave and like have this spark in chemistry that's physical with her partner, even if they don't have penetrative sex.
00:31:06
Speaker
So I think it's possible.
00:31:08
Speaker
Do I think it's great?
00:31:09
Speaker
Like, I mean, I personally don't think so, but everyone has their own take on it.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
Who am I to judge?
00:31:16
Speaker
One thing I was going to say, because you're saying you're still skeptic and as am I, because I even talked to clients about this, about the dating apps.
00:31:22
Speaker
And they're like, I used to think about this too, when I was in my twenties and I'm like on the apps and going on so many dates and feeling like this should be a numbers game.
00:31:31
Speaker
I should be able to go on like X amount of dates in my, and have a success rate.
00:31:35
Speaker
Meaning like I have a lot, like a, I should meet my person.
00:31:38
Speaker
If I go on like a handful of dates, like
00:31:42
Speaker
numbers wise, this should pan out, but it's not that way.
00:31:45
Speaker
What's happening?
00:31:46
Speaker
What's going on?
00:31:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:47
Speaker
It's not about numbers.
00:31:48
Speaker
And I talked to clients about this too, because I'm like, it's the same, like there's going to be bad apples on the dating apps, just like at a bar.
00:31:55
Speaker
Like if you're out with friends,
00:31:57
Speaker
like the chances of me meeting a nice guy are the same thing as if you're on the dating apps.
00:32:02
Speaker
It's like, it's not about the setting.
00:32:05
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:32:06
Speaker
I think it's about timing.
00:32:07
Speaker
I think it's about how evolved you are, how evolved this other person is you're seeing.
00:32:11
Speaker
I think it's about-
00:32:14
Speaker
readiness, your attachment style.
00:32:16
Speaker
I don't think it's about being on the app, how many dates you go on.
00:32:20
Speaker
I don't think five dates a week is going to give you better results.
00:32:22
Speaker
I don't think going on, you know, like just waiting for real life and waiting for someone to approach you is going to give you better results.
00:32:28
Speaker
I think it's just about where you're at.
00:32:30
Speaker
And I think it's kind of similar to the pods.
00:32:33
Speaker
I don't think it's going to, it makes a huge difference at all.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:38
Speaker
I think we're in agreement about the pod situation.
Intentionality in Dating
00:32:42
Speaker
What I would say about the numbers game is that I think there is a little bit of the numbers game.
00:32:47
Speaker
Why do I say that?
00:32:48
Speaker
Because folks will say to me, I really want to meet somebody in a traditional way.
00:32:51
Speaker
I just want to, which is great.
00:32:53
Speaker
Meet somebody at a yoga studio or whatever.
00:32:55
Speaker
You're doing something you enjoy doing, right?
00:32:57
Speaker
We got it.
00:32:58
Speaker
That would be fun.
00:32:58
Speaker
That'd be nice.
00:33:00
Speaker
But what I tell these people is like, okay, if the majority of people, which is the case, we get data to support this.
00:33:05
Speaker
If the majority of people are matching online with online dating in the apps, then you are intentionally, if you're intentionally dating, you're intentionally foreclosing on some set of opportunities.
00:33:17
Speaker
I agree.
00:33:18
Speaker
So I would have my clients keep all their doors open, increase the number of opportunities.
00:33:24
Speaker
I guess it's quality is what I'm saying.
00:33:25
Speaker
Like you have to do it intentionally.
00:33:27
Speaker
So if you're like, I really want to just do in real life, then you have to actively go to these places.
00:33:33
Speaker
Like you said, like yoga studio, the gym, you have to actively put yourself out there.
00:33:37
Speaker
Same thing on the apps.
00:33:38
Speaker
You can't just like be on an app and swipe and message once and assume that things are going to work out.
00:33:43
Speaker
But I think the quality is what people are.
00:33:44
Speaker
Because again, like in the pods,
00:33:47
Speaker
people can say whatever they want to say behind this wall.
00:33:50
Speaker
We had Matthew who was an asshole and like has no empathy, right?
00:33:55
Speaker
And could say these things.
00:33:56
Speaker
And at the end of the day, we're going to get bad apples and we're going to get people that are not
00:34:01
Speaker
empathetic and not kind or not going into it with the best intentions in all these settings.
00:34:05
Speaker
I guess that's kind of what I mean.
00:34:06
Speaker
It's really like we can't avoid that.
00:34:09
Speaker
It's just being intentional and being aware of the red flags or yellow flags and then doing our best to do things with discernment, I guess
Conclusion and Future Projects
00:34:20
Speaker
is what I'm saying.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:21
Speaker
I support that.
00:34:24
Speaker
But you're right.
00:34:24
Speaker
Everyone's on the apps.
00:34:25
Speaker
I mean, like not everyone's in a pod.
00:34:27
Speaker
I want, particularly for men out there, if there's any men who are listening to this podcast right now,
00:34:32
Speaker
It is a numbers game for you.
00:34:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:35
Speaker
You represent 60% of the people on the dating apps right now.
00:34:38
Speaker
And most people on dating apps are heterosexual.
00:34:41
Speaker
So there are a large number of men who are competing for a smaller set of women who are actually would be compatible for these men.
00:34:49
Speaker
So I would suggest you to be on the apps at least 10, 15 minutes a day and swiping.
00:34:54
Speaker
That's not that much.
00:34:55
Speaker
But right.
00:34:55
Speaker
But so that's different though than like an hour.
00:34:57
Speaker
And people are spending like their whole lives on apps, I guess.
00:35:00
Speaker
And you have to, yes, you have to do that.
00:35:02
Speaker
But like, are you doing that intentionally?
00:35:04
Speaker
Are you just swiping?
00:35:05
Speaker
Are you saying, how's your day going?
00:35:07
Speaker
Or are you actually engaging in a conversation in a meaningful way?
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:35:11
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:35:12
Speaker
I think we should just coach everyone on these shows.
00:35:16
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:35:17
Speaker
Let's do all the shows.
00:35:20
Speaker
Well, this has been an absolute, absolute pleasure to do this series with you.
00:35:26
Speaker
Just in case we don't do another, but I hope we do.
00:35:29
Speaker
Let's just do it.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker
Love on the spectrum.
00:35:32
Speaker
I could get behind.
00:35:33
Speaker
Love on the spectrum.
00:35:34
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:35:34
Speaker
I need to do that for sure.
00:35:37
Speaker
We'll have to talk about it.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
It's been fun.
00:35:40
Speaker
Cheers to you later.