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Episode 41: Biff Gentsch talks changes in the tent industry
148 Plays20 days ago
Biff Gentsch joins Nate to talk about changes in the tent industry, particularly the decline of traditional striped tents and the importance of public safety in tent operations. He emphasizes the need for tent owners to adapt because the industry is changing and so should their inventory. Biff and Nate talk about how to communicate with event planners about considering safety when working on events.
This episode is brought to you by Anchor Industries. Learn more at www.anchorinc.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm a train rental man. I'm working all day. Getting mistakes in the ground no matter what they say. From sunrise to the night make sure everything's right.
00:00:14
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a train rental man. I'm working all
00:00:19
Speaker
right, we're back again with another episode of Under the Vinyl, a rental management media podcast. Usually this is part where I would introduce my co-host Kyle, but Kyle is actually sick today. so we're going to go ahead and push on right through without him, unfortunately, and we'll get him back next week. But we do have a great guest today.
00:00:36
Speaker
Today on Under the Vinyl, we're sitting down with someone who's been on a steady force and trusted voice in the tent industry. For years, Biff from Anchor Industries joins us to bring a wealth of knowledge from the manufacturing side of the industry, where quality, innovation, and craftsmanship truly begin.
00:00:50
Speaker
We dive into everything from how Anchor continues to get the standard in fabric structures to challenges and opportunities shaping the future of tending. Biff shares his perspective on customers and what they should be asking, what installers need to know, and why strong relationships between manufacturers and rental companies matter now more than ever.
Biff's Career Journey
00:01:07
Speaker
Biff, how are you doing, buddy? Doing well, Nate. Thanks for having me. Yes, sir. Good to see you. um I know you've got a busy schedule, so I'm glad that we can at least get you on here, especially now with Anchor being our presenting sponsor. So glad to have you be the first one on here.
00:01:23
Speaker
That's good, man. i like that. Love it. I like that. yeah So Ben, if you could give us a little rundown on what what you're doing at Anchor or where you kind of started at Anchor and when you started Anchor up to up to now and kind of what your job title is and what your role is.
00:01:39
Speaker
All right. So I started at Anchor in July of 1987. So i am in my 39th year in the industry. ah My wife got her first job out of graduate school at Northwestern at the CVS affiliate here in Evansville, Indiana. and that's how we ended up here.
00:01:58
Speaker
And she was a reporter, so she was working at nights. And I was a stockbroker in Chicago when we moved down here. and And women were pretty new to broadcast news back then. So don't know.
00:02:12
Speaker
And basically, was you were in a place like Evansville for two years, then you'd move on to a Louisville or a Topeka or Milwaukee market, then that would last two years and so on and so on. So anyway, I got down here and and really sort of decided that I didn't want to beat my head against the wall for two years, building a book and then leave it.
00:02:29
Speaker
So i said I said, screw it. And and i went to work at a local restaurant so that we had similar hours. And through that process, I met the Doss family who owns Anchor Industries.
00:02:40
Speaker
And I took good care of them at the Cork & Cleaver restaurant here in Evansville. And was going to have to rescue that. That was that great steakhouse that you took me to. There you go. the ah And then Sally came home one day and said, I can't do TV news anymore. It's infotainment. It's not about news. It's about ratings. And so she said, I've taken a job at the newspaper. I said, oh, I guess we're going
Expansion and Sales Network Development
00:03:05
Speaker
to be here for a while. And I said, I better find a job. So At that point in time, Pete's brother-in-law, Eric Solter, was the president of Anchor.
00:03:13
Speaker
And I called him up and I said, hey, i'm going to get back into brokerage because I knew everybody in town that had money at that point. And I said, I'm going to get back into brokerage. Can I use you as a reference on my resume? And he said, absolutely. Come out here and see me. So I had no idea what Anchor was all about. I had no idea what they did.
00:03:31
Speaker
i knew that I drove by it on the highway, but I really didn't know anything about it other than that. And remember opening that door and smelling the vinyl for the first time. It's like, oh my God, what is that smell? And of course, now I don't even recognize it because of I'm sure. that's a little that's That smell sucked me in 21 years ago. i feel like when you open new vinyl bags, it was ah it was something.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, there's nothing like the smell of new vinyl. It's way better than moldy vinyl, that's for sure. Yeah. why So anyway, five interviews later, I'm selling tents for a living. And we were there. We were in Evansville for another, of I think, almost two years.
00:04:13
Speaker
Sally's mom was diagnosed with cancer. She wanted to move back home to Chicago. And I turned in my resignation and didn't know what I was going to be doing. And they said, we hate to lose you. Let's create a territory. reap So at night in February of 89,
00:04:27
Speaker
um hu I started up, i was my territory was northern the northern Midwest, which was Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and northern Illinois.
00:04:37
Speaker
And I operated that territory for 18 years. And then Anchor hired a sales manager who was not my cup of Darjeeling. And I said, this is not going to work for me. and And I called Chuck Miller out at Aztec.
00:04:54
Speaker
And I said, hey, I'm looking to make a change. you have any interest in talking to me? And he said, how soon can you get out here? So I went out and talked talked with Chuck for a while. And ah at that point in time, Aztec had sold their rental division to Classic.
00:05:09
Speaker
And they were goingnna they're working on ramping up their manufacturing. They had bought the assets from Academy who had gone belly up. And they I think cut ah Chuck paid $700,000 for all the assets of Academy Manufacturing, which was about a $16 million dollars revenue stream at that point in time. and And along with that came a bunch of people knocking on his door looking for work. So it was a good time. It was the right place, right time to make that change.
00:05:38
Speaker
I came in as as the guy who was going to create the sales network, the outside sales rep network for Aztec and and create a new model for them. And I think they've done it for 18 years with Anchor. I was pretty well-versed in what it was going to take to make that all happen.
00:05:55
Speaker
So I did that for the Aztec for probably a year and a half or two years. And then Alex was promoted to vice president. And then they promoted me to national sales manager.
00:06:07
Speaker
And I did that for another three and a half years. And sometime somewhere in that process, I ran into Pete Mogaviro at a trade show. And he said, hey, I want to get the band back together. and I said, well, I'm all ears. but but what What are you thinking about? He said, well, not alone let me think about that. So he and talked back and forth for probably a year and a half, two years. and and that let's see i left i I left Aztec in June of 2012, and then in October of 2012, I started as National Sales Manager for Anchor.
00:06:39
Speaker
So back then, there were six divisions at Anchor. and ahead knew you You had ClearSpan, you had International, you had... outdoor amusement, you had custom products, it fire shelters, and anyway, you had a bunch of different different divisions of the company that I was responsible for. So it wasn't just tents, it was a kind of a a new learning curve for me, which was good.
00:07:03
Speaker
So I think I managed about a team of about 35 salespeople, which was nice. Yeah, so I did that for almost almost eight years. And then during COVID, ah Pete decided it was time for a change. And he said, we we want to bring somebody new in or to run sales. I said, that's good. I've had enough time in this chair. And and I got back. Actually, at that point in time, I i i worked Colorado, Texas, and and Arizona for about a year and a half. And then I got into product development, product management.
Role Transition and Sales Consultancy
00:07:37
Speaker
So that's when the F3 High Peak was came to existence and and a couple of other things. so and And during my process and at time as national sales manager, we definitely did some other things to improve products and introduce new products. F3 was new and that's some other things.
00:07:54
Speaker
um So I did product management for about a year and a half, and then our rep in the Southeast Territory left, Saul Peckness. ah Many of you know Saul, he's great guy, good tent man.
00:08:07
Speaker
um He left and we were having problems filling that void. And I went to Chris and Mogabero and said, if nobody's, you can't find anybody decent or the right person take this territory, then I said, I'll throw my hat in the ring.
00:08:22
Speaker
I said it'd be a good way for me to ride off into the sunset. so and i So about a year and a half ago, actually, maybe just about a year and a half ago two years ago, I started traveling the Southeastern territory, which is Florida, ah South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee. So That's my current territory with Acre. That's my job.
00:08:43
Speaker
My title is sales consultant because we believe that the the relationship is very consultative with with our customer base. ah We become very good friends with our customers and take good care of them. And it's not all about making the sale. It's about putting the right product with the right customer in the right bright place and time. So we don't we don't like selling guys that have 20 by 20 frame sets, 80 wide pull sets. That just doesn't make good sense.
00:09:09
Speaker
Other people out there will do that, but that's that's not the anchor way. Well, know when you moved over to the the manager role again, you know it was one of those things where we were all a little worried because we we loved you over the sales and and things like that. So we were little worried about it. But now we got you back in our territory over here, so we get to work with you a little bit more. So we're we're thankful for that overall.
00:09:31
Speaker
yeah well well I'm very thankful for it. I like being back on the road. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you're in a good spot and and in the way you just handle people and everybody loves you. I think that it's a good match overall and it's been a good match for Anchor.
00:09:43
Speaker
Right. Thanks, Dan. I appreciate that. Well, before we jump into kind of our products here and and what we want to go through on what's new at Anchor and your different products, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors.
Sponsorship and Product Innovation
00:09:54
Speaker
This episode of Under the Vinyl is brought to you by Anker Industries, a fifth generation, family-owned American manufacturer of tents and clear span structures. Anker has spent decades engineering products that last season after season, and they're more than just your supplier.
00:10:07
Speaker
They're a partner committed to helping grow your business. And right now, Anker's winner discount is live. Get 15% off frame, fabric, and accessories for your tents and clear spans now through January 26th. Make sure you let them know Kyle and Nate sent you.
00:10:22
Speaker
Contact your sales rep today. Call 800-544-4445 or visit anchorinc.com to learn more. And we're back with Biff here. And Biff, we're going jump into kind of what's new at Anchor and and kind of what what's some products that we are looking at that we've kind of seen that are developing as well as kind of the trends and things like that. um So just kick things off. What's new at Anchor right now? What's a major product or update or innovation people should be paying attention to?
00:10:51
Speaker
Sure. Well, I think the most recent product we've launched is the VXN or the Vixen, as we like to call it. And that's basically a 3-meter through 15-meter clear fan system that that can go to 4-meter upright in a 5-meter bay. So 4-meter.
00:11:09
Speaker
And that profile with most of our competitors, that's a three meter upright and a three meter bay. We can go to a four meter upright on a five meter bay up through 12 meter. The 15 meter needs to have three meter bays. So I'm sure that that anybody who wants to do anything else with that can do what they want. You know you guys are all pretty creative with with the way you do things versus the way they get get shipped to you from us.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. A lot of different changes there, but what kind of drove the development of that profile? Cause it very, it's a very interesting, style of profile, uh, especially for, Actually, Mike Cruz was the guy who really spearheaded that, and and we were all quick to jump on board because everybody else was a three-meter leg and a three-meter bay, and we said, all right, we can take this profile ah to a four-meter leg and and a five-meter bay and cut down the the installation time by about 40%, and you got so many fewer parts and pieces, and it just makes sense, and you're still using a two-hole base plate. You haven't gone to a four-hole base plate, and
00:12:16
Speaker
And, uh, it's just, it's been a really great product for us. And we've obviously you all have bought some and, and, uh, and we've got lots of other people into it and looking forward to that product product to continue to grow and and prosper.
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah. I think that the, the big thing for me and, and we were talking about buying and Mike and the group, it was the formula leg being on that profile just in general. Um, I think it's a, it's a real, it's a quick, don't want to say it's fast cause nothing should be super fast, but it's quick product that is um it's a lot it's not as it gives you more of this you got the structure feel now you know you guys got the the smaller frame tents in that style and everything but now you're going to that structure feel that everybody wants where you keep it up a little bit longer on a four meter leg and i feel like the four meter leg is kind of the way events are going in some sorts with different um you know you get your stuff for the nfl or mlb or anything like that they need taller legs but
00:13:10
Speaker
ah Maybe not a wedding leg, but some some wedding planners do like the taller leg. So I think the four meter has been a great option, but just in general of how light the product really is. Right. i mean, it's 130 by 70 profile.
00:13:23
Speaker
It's a good size profile. It's beefy enough to to get done what needs to be done, but not so beefy that it it adds a lot of extra weight and and time and effort. So... It's been a great product for us. We've also ah developed a new glass and hard wall system for that, that works on the outside of the leg as opposed to the the rotor profiles we manufacture here in the US where the walls, hard walls and glass fit in between the uprights. And I'm sure at some point we will retrofit that's those systems for those profiles to be on the outside of the leg. It's just more forgiving, quicker and easier.
00:13:56
Speaker
right so that was That was what I was going ask you. Did they officially roll out the hard wall for the Vixen line? And and when are those options available or are they available? I believe, actually, I believe they're available now. it's but I think we're in the final stages of of of getting everything done with engineering, getting all the drawings finished. and But I believe that we've sold some glass already and had some hard wall as well.
00:14:20
Speaker
And we're also getting into the garage door style hardwall, which is a a great product. that's It's much lighter and and much easier to to get put in in place.
00:14:32
Speaker
And so for for the glass and the hardwall, do you see a specific market that those will start to lean towards? Or do you think that it's going be kind of versatile across the United States? Well, I think as a lot of your previous guests have mentioned, yeah this this used to be a seasonal business and now it's turning into a year-round business. So I think that that the application for glass and hardwall is increasing with with the seasonal the winter seasons and people doing more winter tenting and cold weather tenting. And certainly, obviously, on the ah opposite side and down in my new territory,
00:15:02
Speaker
Warm weather setting where you want to keep the elements out in the summertime and keep the humidity and the heat out. So I think it's going to be good. I think the hard wall and glass are going to be great for all of that.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, I think that glass is becoming a... I've had quite a few um industry um planners and things like that want to move to the glass style. So I think getting ahead on that with the Vixen is going to be great. I think that c Clear Sidewalls has their place in the industry, but I think that a lot of these planners too are starting to get to the point um you know with these higher-end events or these higher-end structures that they want to see a solid glass wall rather than the vinyl wall. I get a lot of questions about that when I go to a site Is it going to be glass or is going to be vinyl? Well, it's going to be vinyl unless you want to pay for the glass. But I think, you know, a lot of them want to go towards that glass and that look is going to be great, especially on that formular leg.
00:15:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it'll be very nice and it'll be very, very clean and and the integrated doors and in the whole nine yards. So, yeah, we're very pleased with that. and And I think that, you know, what's next for for the the Vixen is going to be whether we decide to go with a the Bodega, which is like our Arkham tile top,
00:16:13
Speaker
Yeah. Whether we want to get in and edit get into shape dads or the usual, the usual suspects. Right. Yep. Yep. And that was kind of the next question. A lot of people that we were talking to when we were told them that you were coming on, they were kind of asking and in regards to the Vixen, if we were going see the bodega fronts, the hex ends, or just any kind of architectural add-ons. Cause I think that what's setting this industry apart right now, you have the garden tents and the Levos and things like that, but just a new style. So bringing this Vixen in, I feel like any kind of new architecture for that would be huge for the industry.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think it'll be good as well. and And I think, you know, we are now entering it at ah the dawn of a new era of tending, you know, because because structures are on the rise again and pole tents are on the decline, other than obviously the sell products.
00:17:02
Speaker
ah the The frame tents and structures are are going to be king of the hill and and that means that they're going be upgrades and and people are going to be more willing to spend money for better products that have integrated floors and climate control of systems that aren't flapping in the wind and making a lot of noise and letting letting letting a lot of weather in, which has been a ah chronic problem with with our products, not our products, industry products for years.
00:17:27
Speaker
Right, right. And with that, and, you know, talking about the flat bin and the solid, more solid
Market Expansion and Compliance
00:17:32
Speaker
items. um What about warehouse building? Is Anchor expanding more into the semi-permanent or warehousing building market? What types of structures are you guys, are you using for storage and industrial applications now?
00:17:42
Speaker
Right. So we, we entered the warehouse market about two years ago, maybe a little more than that. We were working with L2 exclusively for a while, and then when L2 sold to United, that that agreement ended.
00:17:57
Speaker
And we're actually, I think just right now, we're now starting to push the 334 profile. profile ah which I think is 334 by 120, I believe.
00:18:08
Speaker
And that's going to be, you know, 30, 40, 50 meter a profile for regular structure. And then for the warehouse buildings, that's just a whole different ballgame. And that's that's a big, fat segment of the business. I'm sorry?
00:18:23
Speaker
Snow load on that profile? yeah Yeah, we actually, we have snow loads on all our all our clear span structures. so basically, right anywhere from five to 15 pounds and 20 pounds. Once you start bringing the the uprights in we can get a lot more snow load on anything. but But all our buildings, all our standard clear span buildings and our Navitrack are snow loaded.
00:18:44
Speaker
It can be snow loaded. Yeah. And how does your anchor approach the engineering when it comes when it becomes a multi-year building instead of like a three-day event? ah Well, yeah we have a a very large and engineering department at Anchor. We're and we're unique that way. And we have about 12 or 13 people within our engineering department. We have a PE. We've got somebody else who's working on his PE. And we're working it on really diligently on being on top of all all the code changes and keeping all our products certified to the most current codes.
00:19:16
Speaker
So I think that with the warehouse building, As I said earlier, that the 180-day code cycle for temporary structures is going to be changed to 365 days, I believe in 2027 or 26. And that's going to play into our ability to take care of things, being certified and having that engineering certification to make sure that these buildings can stay up permanently or semi-permanently without any issues. and You know, just like anything else in any market, it all depends on the authority having jurisdiction and how they want to relate to you as a as as somebody who's operating in their market. i mean, we all know that from one fire marshal on one side of town to another fire marshal on the other side of town, it's all about interpretation, and and they all interpret it differently. I mean, it's just that's just the nature of the beast, and it's it's very arbitrary, you unfortunately, but it is what it is, right?
00:20:09
Speaker
Right. And, you know, with that, I mean, that's why we're hoping to hopefully bring everybody together and, you know, with ATA and ARA and what they're showing with these classes. and And hopefully we can bring some of these fire marshals together and say, look, let's get y'all on the same page because I feel like it's so all over the place. But with the manufacturers giving us the right stuff with the engineering and and the right specs and and to be able to take it and say, hey, and look, this is what we got.
00:20:32
Speaker
Let's go through it together. I think that's huge. And so having any support from y'all is is wonderful. ah bes We work diligently to try and make that happen. you know we've We've always been committed to having ah an engineering team. Mr. Doss, the owner of Anchor before Pete got involved, was ah was an engineer Purdue graduate and and just was was very passionate about overbuilding things.
00:20:57
Speaker
Anchor has always been guilty of overbuilding things. Right. got to, I mean, people like it done quick and and fast, like I said earlier, but with the safety aspect of it too. So, you know, just with the Vixen in general, that's, that's kind of where it was going with that.
Evolution of Tent Preferences
00:21:13
Speaker
um Can you, can you break down some of the products that anchor currently has that are kind of certified in the engineering? ah Actually, i think the only product we have that isn't certified is our all-purpose canopy. i mean, we have engineering certification on the Fiesta, although it's not much.
00:21:30
Speaker
ah ah But I think everything else from from the NABY light to the F3 to the Navitrack to the Century line of tents to the Aurora to all our clear span, it's all, it is all as engineering certification. So,
00:21:46
Speaker
I don't think there's anything. Well, our old traditional pole tents don't have any certification. So party mate, the party tent. And then, and frankly, they're going to be phased out within the next two to three years. So anybody who owns anchor pole tents that wants to buy traditional striped tents, do in the next two years because they're going go away.
00:22:04
Speaker
Right. and you heard take i left Well, they need to go. On his colored pole tents and everything. pulled Well, I mean, theres there's certain there are certain markets that that thrive on a Stray Ridge party tents or pole tents that that have ever have striping. But the.
00:22:24
Speaker
it's just It's just not the the product that that you said it earlier. Public safety is are the two words that we all need to think about and and have running around our head all day long when we're out putting up tents or selling tents or proposing tents to end users or new customers. and We just have to keep public safety at the forefront of our process.
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah, and so do you do you think you think in general, not just colored, but you think that there's going to a shift in that, a noticeable shift in the pole tent industry? but we We're already seeing it at Anchor. I don't know what everybody else is seeing. But frame tents are definitely, mean, it was not just COVID that started that. It was, pole tents were already on ah on a slight decline, and I think that people There's so much frame out there. There's such a lot of framework out there after COVID that that I think a lot of people are are steering away from pole tests and they've realized that frame tents, plus with the labor pool being what it is and you don't have the guys you used to have, it's you can't screw up putting up a frame tent together, but you can sure as hell screw up putting up a pole tent.
00:23:25
Speaker
Well, it's so funny that you say that because I was noticing that too. We have ah we have ah up in our Nashville warehouse, obviously we have a ton of pole tents still as Chattanooga Tent as a whole. But in our Nashville warehouse, I think we've had a 30-wide century made up there since the office has kind of been open. It might have gone out one time.
00:23:44
Speaker
And, you know, try to push it a little. We try to push it, but it's one of those things where it's like – I feel like everybody now wants that wide open look inside the structure or they want that next step.
00:23:56
Speaker
What are you going to put a translucent top in? And and so having or having the poles down the middle, everybody's trying to maximize the space. But with that, just the safety and the standard. and And so, you know, I am I would push structure a little bit more um or frame 10 a little bit just because I feel more comfortable with knowing I can sleep at night just with the right.
00:24:18
Speaker
And that's how I sell it. But to your point on the labor, i would totally agree. I mean, back in the day when I first got into it 21 years ago, I remember the first pole tent I put up was a, it was an anchor, 30 wide, a yellow and white stripe and it had all ropes. And so we were tying it off and we were trying to see who could tie the knot the fastest and, and, you know, have challenges. We could go around and put up the tent the fastest and tie the all your knots the fastest. And nowadays, and we, we did it right back then, I would say, but now,
00:24:47
Speaker
I think with all these different companies have having to have labor come in, have extra labor brought in, these event labor companies, they do know pole tents, but I don't think that I would feel as safe or feel good about walking away from having somebody like that put up a pole tent versus a structure. and The structure is...
00:25:08
Speaker
I don't want to idiot-proof, but it's pretty much, or a frame tent is more idiot-proof than a pull tent at this point. and you would they really think They really only go together one way, right? Yeah, but you'd think it'd be different because it has more nuts and bolts, but at the end of the day, it's a safer product, so...
00:25:23
Speaker
Without question. and And, you know, nobody has to be a Boy Scout. Nobody has to know how to tie a clove hitch or any of those things anywhere. So yeah the Web and Ratchet were a huge advent to change in our industry. So ah hats off to Mike Hill and Brandon Aker, who was the first guy to that brought the the Web and Ratchet and the steak bar into into play back back many years ago.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah, thankful for that. But I'm also like, although my back hurts from the sledgehammers and the ropes and everything else, and I'm going to PT because of it, I'm also kind of sad. I mean, I'm only 35 years old, but it's kind of sad not that this up and coming new generation has no idea what it's like to have to tie a knot. I feel like we need to go backwards a little bit into some of these into some of these you know boot camps and things that we do and just to see if people can still tie the knot or not.
00:26:12
Speaker
Right. Well, it's funny, you know, when when when the sailcloth came out of the scene, we likened it to Henry Ford hitching up a ah a mule to the front of the Model T because we were we were we were we were going back, you know, we got rid of the translucent fabric and we made all these changes and now all of a sudden we're going back to translucent fabric and round ends and all those things that those tents were all about originally.
00:26:35
Speaker
So it was interesting that the guy that Sperry really spearheaded all that and then the industry followed. Well, and I think that that's that's another point there is a good point is maybe not all pull tents are dying. um You know, the sailcloth and Brian Rich had said it on our last tailgate talk here that came out today um that he felt like that when that first rolled out that all the all the sailcloth stuff came out and and the Aurora stuff came out that that was going to die off. It was just going fad. It was going be a trend. But
00:27:07
Speaker
It's here to stay. And I don't think it's going anywhere. And I yeah i think you still got that mix between the classy look with the wooden poles and things like that. And you can put up with the poles down the center and the, in the last room when you have such a sexy look of the rounded ends and the wood poles.
00:27:22
Speaker
Well, it's a, it's a highly emotive, it's full of nostalgia and and that's what appeals to the brides. I mean, we We jokingly call it an estrogen-based product. you know it's it's ah The brides and the brides' mothers absolutely love And like I 100% agree. I think it was Dave Budak up at Canopies in Milwaukee who said to me, ah you know we're always going to century tents for our corporate work and our and our other things. but we're We're going to have to have sailcloth for weddings. And that' that's just, that's always the way it's going to be in it. And that is, that is the new wedding tent. It is not the century or the, the, the high peak tension tent anymore. It's, it's, it is the sailcloth product. So. And do you see an upward trajectory right now? Is that, is that product just still sailing out the door?
00:28:09
Speaker
it's It's moving pretty well, and and our sales are are really substantial in that line. And we introduced the 81 wide last year, and and it's been great. A monster. but the one i but I hope it stops there. i hope i don't i don't i really don't see a need to go to 100 wide in the sale cloutet, but I'm sure somebody's going to do it because somebody's going to ask for it and somebody's willing to pay.
00:28:31
Speaker
somebody's going to willing to pay for it so it it will happen it at some point but but i think part of the charming and the nostalgia of the sailcloth is the intimacy of it so when you when you keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger you you lose that aspect of things Right. and And let's not get it misconstrued here on our end. When you get to that size, it's already tough enough to clean those tops and keep them dry and do all the things to maintain them, but golly. Right. and you who we yeah But you'll have somebody. You'll have somebody to pay for it
Emerging Tent Technologies
00:29:00
Speaker
that's got to have it. and You know, you're down. And whether it's us or Fred's or Aztec who does it, it's just to be a matter of time.
00:29:09
Speaker
Right. Right. And so that's kind of like, ah So it's moving more to a hybrid now, going to your track frames, not just your structures. Why are hybrid track frames becoming so popular? Is it a labor, transportation, engineering, or all the above?
00:29:24
Speaker
but All the above, and and I think it's forgiving. you know Whereas a clear span... is so much more specific in installation you have to watch elevations, you know, with it with a with a hybrid track frame, you've you've got an adjustable leg so you can cheat all that stuff or you can't you can't do that as easily with a clear span. You got to have guys who who know how to run it, the transit and and and block those things and and make sure that the tent's done right. Otherwise, the fabric's not going. now But with with a NaviTrack or a FutureTrack or a JumboTrack, your fabric's going to go in because you can you can adjust those legs to keep the frame square.
00:30:01
Speaker
So I think it's and it's just, once again, it goes back to engine it goes back to engineering certification and public safety. You know, that's for, like I said, you other the Fiesta did have does have some some engineering, but not but not much. I think it's 30 miles an hour. don't think I'm going to buy it.
00:30:22
Speaker
Well, I mean, think about it. The Fiesta has been around since the early nineteen sixty s it's it's ah It's as old as I am, for Pete's sake. yeah Yeah, every company I've been to, I've been with three now, and they've all got it. And even some people, what's really funny is when you get around some new people in the industry, newer people in the industry, or younger guys, and they're like, you got Fiesta?
00:30:43
Speaker
I'm like, hell yeah, I do. It's actually amazing. And you're like, yeah, but that's older. And I'm like, yeah, but it's great. I mean, we went to, we were down in Charlotte and they had it all. They had so much of it on racks. Dan Hooks had a ton of it on racks, just sitting in the back of the warehouse. And they were like, you want to buy it? And i was like, I don't, that's still a great product.
00:31:03
Speaker
Right. Well, the great thing about Fiesta is if you have a Fiesta that you bought in 1965, the parts haven't changed. I mean, we've we've fixed a few of the parts and pieces, but they all they all still work, right? So yeah if you buy a new part for your Fiesta, it's going to work.
00:31:18
Speaker
You don't have to drill pipes or do anything different. It's still a very viable frame system. Yeah, you know what you're getting with it. So do you guys think that you're gonna be expanding on those new hybrid hybrid style products?
00:31:32
Speaker
I think that we were talking about a couple different design issues for the Navitrack that may address some of the the changes and in the frame styles that people are seeing out there as far as new looks and and and things that that the frame can do that old frames won't do.
00:31:47
Speaker
And that's one of the reasons we took the F3 to the f three High Peak. was, you we had the century frame for years. That was a David Murray design up at 10's Fiesta. ah And that was great because back when we introduced the century, Ted, we had all a lot of customers saying to us, hey, we've got all these beautiful a parabolic shape, curvilinear shape, high peak tents, and then we're putting Fiestas next to them.
00:32:11
Speaker
So it looks like you're you know you're putting something squat and square next to something beautiful and majestic. So ah fortunately we worked something out with David Murray and and we manufactured his Century frame oh for years.
00:32:27
Speaker
but But that frame was on an eight a half foot leg and and And the wall system used a very small keyter. think it's seven or eight millimeter keyter. And so it didn't integrate with anything else.
00:32:40
Speaker
Right. So one of the things that we were trying to do is create consistency between product lines. And I think that's where the Navi light and the Navi The F3 and now the F3 high peak all use the same walls. so it it's Yeah, and i when I saw the f three high peak, I was kind of taken aback at first. I was like, eh, I don't know about that. And then and the more I thought about it, it brings in that more of the old school, ah you know, just even the pole tents or the high peak in general.
00:33:05
Speaker
So people, I mean, people love the pitch, let's be honest, of the the high peak look or the pole tent look. I mean, we're always referred to as, oh, those circus tents. Well, no, they're not circus tents. They're sexier circus tents, really. if we can connect it in there with a frame that has that the Keter track, I feel like that's a good push for a new company. I mean, any company, really, but a new company that's coming in that wants to have some very versatile products, I feel like that's good way for them to go.
00:33:35
Speaker
Well, and the other thing, you know, based the thing that that appealed to me about that round extrusion was it it worked with the technology WSSL principle, which was it's a pivoting frame. So when when that when those four up those four e bars are sitting on the ground and the cables are are attached,
00:33:53
Speaker
You lift one corner and the other three stay on the ground. And you put that you put that leg in there. Then you go to your second quarter corner and put the leg in there. The other the other two are still on the ground.
00:34:03
Speaker
So one guy who knows what he's doing can actually go out and put up a 20 by 20. And that's why it's a perfect product for the mom and pops and for the bounce house guys and for other guys that want to add to their inventory and and have a lot of product. It's a really great product because, A, it's got the Keter channels in it. So it's very...
00:34:22
Speaker
its very The problem that we've always had with technology and WSSL and everybody else's Canadian-style frame was you had to run a wire, do other things to hang the walls.
00:34:33
Speaker
So this this eliminates all that. It makes it much simpler and much easier, and it's much quicker. um And, you know, it's got a higher price point, but but you're going to have the benefit of of of all the the improvements that have been made over the years. And and it's not steel fittings. it's its so It's cast aluminum fittings, and it's it's a very nice product.
00:34:53
Speaker
Right. And you set yourself up for the key to your stuff, which then puts you into it eventually maybe a Vixen or a bigger structure, you know, and that gives you that at the starting point of understanding what that's like versus your older style frame tense. And I mean, even then, so have you heard from people in the field? I know you were talking about setup time and how quickly it seems with a 20 by 20. Have you heard from people in the field so far that have been setting it up on kind of what the labor savings looks like or how they how they feel about it?
00:35:19
Speaker
Well, yeah, no, I think everybody that owns it's been very happy with it. and and And it's like I said, it's either a one or two guy installation. i mean, think about the mom and pops. If you want to go out and do a small backyard party, you're taking a pickup truck. You're not taking a box truck anymore.
00:35:34
Speaker
and And it's two guys in a pickup truck and and and six or eight tables and chairs and... You know, Bob's your uncle, off you go. So it's been, it's it's ah it's a much quicker, faster, easier solution to a backyard party or or any other application where you you want to use a high peak tent.
00:35:54
Speaker
Absolutely. So jumping then from there back over to the ClearSpans again, you know, ClearSpans continue to grow faster than almost any other product and in the segment, but where do you see the ClearSpan market heading over the five next five to 10 years?
00:36:08
Speaker
Well, it's certainly going to continue to grow. I mean, the number of participants has grown immensely since COVID. I mean, but we we talk about, you know, we used to add 10, 15, 18 new customers a year in ClearSpan. I think that number's increased as since since COVID.
00:36:25
Speaker
The demand for ClearSpan is growing because of the acceptance, and the not within our industry, but in the in the outer markets so you look at whether it's i mean look at the i think dave mcarthur said it about the about the golf business if it worked for clear fans there wouldn't be a golf business for for the tech companies so and now now you're getting into other sport now you're getting into other sporting events you're you're getting into corporate uh entertaining and presentations and shareholder meetings and and in all kinds of ways to create huge spaces in a very short period of time that that are very safe. And once again, we go back to public safety, right? Which is what you're saying. And it it speaks really highly. I mean, when you think about what happened in Phoenix, the and with the Roos brothers, the Russo Steel with that car auction with all those utter hundred and twenty wides blowing down years ago.
00:37:18
Speaker
you don't You don't get that with clear spans unless somebody's really not doing putting them up properly. And then we yeah we still always have that problem and that we end up with egg on our face because of that.
00:37:29
Speaker
But I think that that as the industry grows and evolves, we're going have more emphasis on education. Look at ATA, ARA, and Matt are doing about that. mean They finally joined forces, finally.
00:37:41
Speaker
to figure this out because now we're off now we're all talking the same game, and which is really important, I think, for our industry. And I think that's that sends a consistent message to ownership and employees that there is ah a right way and a wrong way to do this. And it's not not using water barrels and it's not taking shortcuts. It's it's taking the time to put the tent up properly with the right parts and pieces and and not cobbling something together at the 11th hour just because you got the job.
00:38:09
Speaker
Right. i think that's a hard thing to do too, um, with, well, one going back to your, your thing about everybody merging together and this industry is big, but it's small at the same time. And for everybody to be on the same page and not be so competitive with each other and have a divide has been great. I think it'll help project this future, the future for this industry as a whole, not just for one side or the other, but for everybody.
Challenges in Industry Transition
00:38:31
Speaker
um which, I mean, is everything in the world. um But also now, you know, with the with the structures, my biggest, the the hardest thing that I've had to do is shift the minds of these, ah you know, these events that are either the larger events, not weddings, but like more of like a music festival or and anything like that, a festival in general. trying to get them from the old pole tent style, pole tent pricing. Cause let's be honest, pole tent pricing is, is so low, um, hard to be competitive with when you come in with a structure due to the labor, but shifting their mind that now, Hey, you got a rate wind rated structure that's engineered and yes, you're going paying more, but you have a peace of mind at night. I have a peace of mind at night, especially if it's something like Chattanooga tent who's traveling, you know, hundreds of miles away, i would much rather put up a structure, but,
00:39:24
Speaker
Trying to get those people to shift their mindset to that is hard. And I would love to hear the perspective, you know, from from them on why and things like that. But, you know, it it would just be great if if we could get an understanding for everybody on why those don't work anymore.
00:39:38
Speaker
Right. Yeah, well, it's it' just it's just time and evolution, and that's that's that's what happens to a lot of industries. And I think as as code enforcement changes, that's also goingnna it's also going to change the business down the line, and and we can talk about that later, about the future of venting, but code is code is going to be a huge part of everybody's daily existence, and and the faster we all accept that, the better off we're all going to be.
00:40:03
Speaker
Right. like Absolutely. Well, but going you with some rapid fire questions here, just going through some things. What's one thing you wish every rental company understood about working with their manufacturer?
00:40:19
Speaker
It's hard for us to have the mindset that you all have, which is you've got a date, a hard date for an event, and and that that that has to be set up on that date.
00:40:29
Speaker
No questions asked. It's harder for us sometimes, especially for somebody the size of Anchor. right When you think about it, we're we're operating out of... but Right. 400,000 square feet.
00:40:41
Speaker
ah We've got 300 employees on the production floor. But we also make things other than tents. I mean, we make pool covers, we make fire shelters, we make awnings, we make big umbrellas, we make all.
00:40:53
Speaker
So we're not we're not just a tent manufacturer. There's a lot of other things that go in. to that that that interrupt the tent process at anchor. right Whereas somebody like a Fred or an Aztec, that's just all they do.
00:41:06
Speaker
oh But I think for me as a manufacturer, I think that it the hardest thing for me to to convey to a customer or a potential customer is the fact that that we we're not as nimble as you all are.
00:41:21
Speaker
right we' reach that We can't turn on a dime because we're a big machine. We're a big machine. ah Yeah. much as And as much as we want to, it's not always possible. And and yeah this this also goes back to the labor pool because you know but when I started at Anchor in 1987, there were 550 people on the production floor of which probably 475 were women.
00:41:47
Speaker
But it was amazing when when there was a problem or something that needed to be addressed, it was like an ant colony. You just shift. a bunch of people over to that side. Well, then we got into lean manufacturing and and then just the the labor pool has changed dramatically so that we don't have people.
00:42:04
Speaker
it's if It's about this whole work life balance thing, you know, your generation and the generation below you and the generation below them. They don't want to they don't want to work all these stupid hours that then myself and a lot of other people my age worked all these all these years of their lives. You know, what of you when I go on the road, it's it's a 60, 70 hour week, just like you you guys in the field. And and it's it's difficult.
00:42:27
Speaker
Right. To come home and readjust after all that. You know, it's it's hard to get back into the swing of things at home when you've been working 12, 15 hour days on the road. So it's a mind shift. Totally. Yes. please Made people want to stay home, but also I think getting people more perspective. Me, ah me for sure.
00:42:44
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and and you listen, I think it's good perspective. i think I think, you know, unfortunately, in our culture, the pendulum doesn't spend much time in the middle. It's it's usually on either side. Right. So so I think that sometimes the the people gotten a little extreme about the work life balance. There has to be more balance in the balance.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah. So anyways, you work life balance. I get that, but they just got, it's got very extreme to the point where now people are taking less pay for more PTO or where can I not work or when can I not, I mean, just the questions and the interviews that you hear nowadays are totally off the wall. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm of the millennial generation, but I, I still want to go grind it out. I want to still make sure the job's done. Now, when I have the opportunity to take a step back and take a break on some weeks that were a little bit slower, I'll do that.
00:43:31
Speaker
But at the end of the day, you still got a job to do and we got to make money and everybody's got to succeed. So, but you also don't want to be the guy out there swinging the sledgehammer. you know you that That should be the guys, you know you're you're you're the you're the you're the leader out there, you're you're the sales guy, you're you're the guy who's making all this happen. You're not the one who needs to be the last person on the job site at 11 o'clock on a Friday night, because everybody else went home because work-life balance.
00:43:54
Speaker
Talking to you, Kyle. ah well What's one anchor product or innovation you feel is underappreciated or misunderstood? Well, that's a good question.
00:44:05
Speaker
I think but not enough people know about our ClearSpan product lines, you know, because I think they've always just viewed us as a tent company that sells ClearSpan. But, you know, I really want to emphasize that we are a soup to nuts company. We do everything from a...
00:44:20
Speaker
10 by 10 to a 60 meter structure. and we And we have the capability to do all that. And like I said, as of this winter, we're going to be manufacturing the 334 profile here in the United States.
00:44:31
Speaker
So every profile we we have now will be manufactured in the United States. And that gives us the opportunity to to make custom changes or do things at the last minute.
00:44:42
Speaker
uh to to take care of somebody's specific need on a job or a project uh but we have a full full line of clear span and and uh you know everything from from three meters to 60 meters i said and it's all made here in the us of a right right where do you see this industry then going with that in the next five to ten years but i think clear span will take care of a lot of problems with code officials because it's not i mean like we said earlier they go together one way now there's way to cheat all that and
00:45:12
Speaker
If there are a lot of people out there that don't put enough up, they'll put all the stakes in the base plates and they take other shortcuts. But I think all in all, that the clear span product lines, but regardless of the manufacturer, are are going to to Put code officials at ease more than ah than a pole tent or a rickety two-inch West Coast frame tent, or if he has stuff.
00:45:36
Speaker
What we're saying is all you guys out there, make sure you're posting this the good stuff on social media, and not the bad stuff, the ideas on why we need to take a look at this stuff. block I mean, yeah, I mean, i think it's I think that'll help a ton. It's just getting these people the mind shift, you know, what's what's easier versus what's safer. Right.
00:45:54
Speaker
Right. Well, and that's really that's really where code, I think, down the the down the line. And obviously the code officials are not not as invasive in rural areas as they are and in urban areas.
00:46:06
Speaker
But in urban areas, I think the code is going to it's going to get more and more stringent as time goes on. And it's it's going to create the elimination of some ten companies because they don't have product that's certified. And and so that right so that's so that's good.
00:46:22
Speaker
That's going to create supply and demand issues. And that that will, you know, that'll that'll have some positive repercussions and some negative repercussions. I think the positive ones will be that people can get a higher dollar for the product, which means they can pay their people more, which means that you're creating careers rather than a summer job or something to do between jobs.
00:46:42
Speaker
Right.
Mentorship and Career Advice
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah. And we don't want the little people to go away. i mean, we need the little people. but No, no. We yeah yeah absolutely way And make sure that we're safe in doing this. And so they're investing not only in then their company as a whole, but the people and everybody else in the company moving forward so that we can create a safe tending standard for this industry.
00:47:03
Speaker
hundred percent 100%. Right. So, Biff, who's the that you've ah someone in the industry that you think deserves more recognition and why? Well, you know, my two mentors at Anchor when I first started were J.D. Howell and Brad Gleason.
00:47:17
Speaker
And those two guys, I learned everything I know from those two guys. and And they were patient with me as a as ah as a young man who was new to the business, who knew nothing about it.
00:47:29
Speaker
I mean, those guys had been in the business for decades. 20 or 30 years when I got started and they both, you know Brad owned his own tech company down in Sanibel called Colusa canvas and JD worked for Armbruster for, I think 20, 27 years before he came to anchor.
00:47:46
Speaker
Uh, but those guys were invaluable about teaching me the right way to do things, the right way to sell the, the. Just the the way to put up tents. I mean, I remember going to put up my first 80-wide, you know, Stray Ridge pole tent and never having done one before. and And I was on the, between those two guys, I bet I called them each 10 times that day.
00:48:08
Speaker
but But, you know, that was something as as field reps that we that set us apart from everybody else back in the early days at Anchors. We were out there showing customers the anchor way of putting up a tent, which was wonderful.
00:48:21
Speaker
And it created relationships that, that and it's forged relationships that are still active and and very viable today because, as I said earlier, you know, customers become good friends. And that's, that's,
00:48:36
Speaker
That's why said we're more consultative than we are salespeople. So I feel like the friends that you make inside this industry, and we've, we talked about it repeatedly on here, but that's what keeps a lot of us here is, is, you know, the friends in the, the friendships that you make in this industry to help you progress through this industry to, to make it better. Right.
00:48:56
Speaker
Right. Huge. If you could give one piece of advice to someone now new to the industry today, what would it be? um learn as much as you can as quickly as you can and and and whether that's going i mean you're not going to be able to go to somebody on the other side of town and ask them to go look at their warehouse and and and go work on their crew for a day or two you might be able to get away with that but but find you know find a manufacturer that that sells reputable product
00:49:27
Speaker
that's not just selling on price. Because, I mean, that's that's another issue we have today is it seems like a lot of the the youngest generation is more concerned with price than product. And that that's that's contrary to the whole code part of things.
00:49:40
Speaker
And and then it's a it's a bad bad way to get into the business. And, you know, fortunately, most of those people around year four or five, realize that, that okay, i need that I need to step it up to use a more viable, reputable manufacturer and in my and my inventory.
00:49:59
Speaker
um But I think, you know, go to the shows, talk, to listen to these podcasts, listen's you know get on the websites. I mean, they they have so many more resources than they did 40 years ago when I got started, when it was a phone call a phone call or somebody you know, finding you by chance. I remember when I got started, I went to the Rand McNally store on Michigan Avenue in Chicago because there was no Internet, you know. And i said, well, I need a map for Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan and Illinois. And I circled every town that had more than 5000 population because that that had enough people to support a rental store.
00:50:36
Speaker
And I drive to those I drive to those towns. they'll Pull into the gas station, ask to use their phone book. And that's how I found people. and that's That's the way it was when I started. It's crazy.
00:50:47
Speaker
And now nobody can get anywhere without a GPS or phone. or Yeah, without without a cell phone, you're toast. Meanwhile, I wish I'd lose mine half the time, but... the stop but you just have food You just have to learn how to put it down for a couple hours a day. That's that's the hard part.
00:51:04
Speaker
Well, the problem is if it stopped ringing, I could. thatre Right. There you go. I do know how that is. I do know how that is. Well, Biff, I appreciate your time today, but I've got one last question for you. After all these questions, after all these years in the game, what kind of keeps you passionate about this industry and what keeps
Conclusion and Personal Reflections
00:51:21
Speaker
you coming back? I mean, you've been in several different roles, couple different companies.
00:51:27
Speaker
You've said 39 years. Why is it? but people. It's the people. And and ah it's ah it's a hard-working, scrappy bunch of of entrepreneurs, and I love that. and And I think that it's a testament and a testimony to our our American culture.
00:51:46
Speaker
And you know my father used to say this to my friends and I all the time, you can be anybody you want to be or do anything you want to do, you just got to want it bad enough. and And I think there's a lot of truth to that. And i think i I think one of the things I love about this industry is I see that in so many of these people. I mean, when you look at guys like Bob Trena and Steve Frost and Kevin McBride, I mean, they didn't get handed these businesses. You know, they've they may have been family businesses, but these guys took them to the next level, you know. And I remember Bob Trena talking about Mrs. Peterson and delivering ah wood wood chairs out of the back of her station wagon when he started working there.
00:52:23
Speaker
I mean, that and look what he's taken that company to. And it's just, it's incredible when you think about those things. And I look at guys like Jim Gallagher in Chicago and Charlie Feldbaum in Minneapolis. And there's so many people that have taken...
00:52:38
Speaker
nothing and created a really wonderful, viable business. and And they're just because they're hardworking and they have passion and and they have drive. And that's so important to making this business successful.
00:52:50
Speaker
Right. People are grinders in this industry and that's, there's no doubt there. And I mean, you can, I mean, you feel it physically and mentally, but at the end of the day, you know, we're all here to accomplish one goal and to take this to the next level. And I think that that you've nailed it with the people. And and that's how preached it over and over again, that no matter how burned out they're upset you get it always brings you back for the people and just the industry as a whole you bet but Well, Biff, I appreciate you coming on today. um i know that you got a lot of stuff going on and that you didn't need to take the time out to come talk with us today, but we appreciate you taking the time out. And I always know just not even just being a sales rep of mine, but, you know, through many, many years of being in this industry that I've always kept in touch with you. You've always kept in touch with me. And I know that I could always count on you for a phone call, whether be personal or through sales. So appreciate everything you do in this industry. And hopefully we can keep you around for a little bit longer.
00:53:44
Speaker
I'm planning to go until 28. So I'll be 70 in 2028. And I think that's time. But you never know. I may decide that there's something else I want to do after Anchor.
00:53:57
Speaker
i've you know I've spent most of my life here, but but you never know what's what's ah what's in the next chapter. I might i make get tired of twilling my thumbs when I'm retired. So you may you may find me somewhere else in in the industry, but who knows?
00:54:10
Speaker
Right. Right. Thanks for coming on today, buddy. And this has been another episode of Under the Vinyl, a rental management media podcast. right. Thanks for having me. See you.
00:54:21
Speaker
Right. Right. Thanks.