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Tuesday Tent Talk With the one and Only Fred From Fred's Tents
173 Plays2 months ago
Nate and Kyle sit down with Fred Tracey and learn about his career from craft shows to a leading tent manufacturer
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Transcript
Episode Briefing and Initial Banter
00:00:03
Speaker
Well I got up early, got a crew to lead. Sitting up, pulls and ropes, that's lie for me. From a wedding to a fair, from the field to the town. the one you call when you need a 10 up or down.
00:00:16
Speaker
Good morning. We're back with another episode of Under the Vinyl. As always, i got my co-host Kyle. Kyle, how are you doing? I'm doing great, Nate. How are you? Good to see you. Good. As we can see, it looks like you're not at the office.
00:00:30
Speaker
and It appears you're not in the office either, Nate, so i don't want to hear too much about this. I see a fish on the wall, though. Well, it's a Friday in July at LNA, which means Kyle doesn't work. I'm up at the lake.
00:00:43
Speaker
I can't complain. No bush lattes yet? Not yet. Still too early. Okay. Well, never too early for a bush latte.
Introduction to Fred and His Journey
00:00:50
Speaker
But we got a yeah we got a great guest on here today. So today we're excited to welcome a true industry veteran on to the podcast.
00:00:55
Speaker
We got Fred from Fred's Tents. If you've been around the tent and event industry world for any amount of time, you've likely heard his name or seen his work. Fred's Tents has been a staple in the industry known for their craftsmanship and innovation and dedication to quality for a long time.
00:01:09
Speaker
Fred brings decades of experience, insight and stories from the field. And we're thrilled to dive into all that today. so let's go ahead and welcome Fred to the show. Fred, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing great, guys. Thank you for having us on there. And I got to tell you, I am in the office.
00:01:24
Speaker
So it is Friday in July and we're still making tents. So you guys go make your fish sandwiches and whatever you do on Fridays. Manufacturing still happens on Monday. um Yeah, the good news is I'll be on the road this afternoon. So so we're there or good. so I do think I saw you were not in the office yesterday, Fred. So, you know, there's a give and a take.
00:01:44
Speaker
I was not in the office. Well, love that for you, but I love that you're here today with us. And thanks for coming on. And yeah, let's kick this off, Fred. Just tell tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this mess.
00:01:57
Speaker
How I got into what mess? This this podcast? a Hey, whichever way you want to go. So I don't know. I don't know how I got into this podcast. The one thing I do like about you guys, it's nice seeing some young blood trying to promote and educate the industry. So I want to give you a call out first on that. And it's awesome what you're doing.
00:02:18
Speaker
I like how you changed the name from when Brian did it under the sheets to under the vinyl. So thanks for changing it and making you more of a ah political, correct name and family friendly.
00:02:29
Speaker
So how did I get into the industry or how did I get into the 10 industry? I always sort of say it sort of found us. I went to school. I got a bachelor's of fine arts, studied in Europe, worked in colonial Williamsburg, Anheuser-Busch as a master potter for a couple of years. Then I had a couple of retail shops, but I did a lot of craft fairs from DC to Maine.
00:02:50
Speaker
I think we did 50 some, so almost one a week. Sometimes we do two a week and I was getting sunburned and, uh, needed to come up with a solution to keep my pottery cooler, keep myself cooler. So we came up with a ah sort of a craft tent, if you want to say, to compete against the easy up or the ah collapsible unit.
00:03:11
Speaker
At that time, those collapsible units were around $450. Our unit was a ah pipe and fitting system similar to a West Coast frame, not quite gable ended tent, but it came in at 275. So we had a price advantage on that.
Manufacturing Focus and Business Decisions
00:03:27
Speaker
we would do craft fairs. My wife, Linda, that a lot of you guys have met is in the company. At that time, she was a CPA. So on weekends, we would do craft fairs. I would set up one of these tents and people would come over and say, oh, I really like that tent. I said, well, do you want it?
00:03:42
Speaker
If you want it, write me a checkout and I'll get two other people. It had four legs. So Linda and I and two other people, we'd grab all four legs. We'd walk it over and put it over their booth. And then I'd build another one and Linda would be sunburnt until I built another one out of the back of the truck and put it up. So that's how we got into the the business.
00:04:01
Speaker
Were you making all of the parts and pieces at that time? You just said. that we were when we did we did rentals. So people always ask, did we ever do rentals? And I said, yeah. So we started in 87. So we moved to the Stillwater location in 90 from probably 90 to 93.
00:04:18
Speaker
We were making the fittings and I can remember doing rentals on graduation weekend. We had a five gallon bucket of water in the back of the truck and we would stick because I was welding them and they were so hot. I had to cool them off to go to a rental because we were overbooked or needed a component.
00:04:33
Speaker
So, yeah, we were we were doing them. And obviously, everybody knows, you know, the rental industry is totally different today than it was probably in the early 90s. You know, people pretty much sat up, ah you know, put up tents on Thursdays and Fridays, took them down Monday and Tuesday. And then then it left us Wednesday for a production week. So I said at that point we had to do rentals or manufacturing.
00:04:53
Speaker
You know, there's a few companies. That's still manufacturing rent. But we decided we didn't want to compete against our customer. And we really just didn't have the time to do both rentals and manufacturing, which I think, you know looking back now, I think we made the right decision and said, OK, we're going to concentrate on manufacturing.
00:05:12
Speaker
That's how we got into it. Was that kind of the turning point and in the Fred's Tents history then? No, I mean, there's a lot of different sales or projects or things that happened along the line, but that was really the defining that we were going to manufacture at that point.
00:05:29
Speaker
We stayed in the craft market probably through 94, you know, probably 94 I showed up at my probably first show with a bag of widgets and said, you know, I know about tents and I knew nothing of tents at that point, you know, compared to what we were, you know, that was the era of the Kevin McBrides and and everybody
Industry Insights and Innovations
00:05:50
Speaker
early on. And I needed to get educated. And unfortunately we have some great organizations, ARA and MATRA and IFAI now ATA to educate us. And and and we sort of progressed through them. So what was the moment then you knew this business could grow?
00:06:06
Speaker
Probably in 2024. No, you
00:06:11
Speaker
now you know, I think those, you know, we built that first facility in Stillwater in 96, which was 6,000 square feet. And within three years, we were adding on, we were doubling in size.
00:06:24
Speaker
We'd gone to automation as far as on our cut line. We were cutting tents by hand. A little fun fact, back we were cutting 40 by 80 tenths at that time, which took about four hours.
00:06:36
Speaker
When we put our first automation as far as computer cutting that 40 by 60, we got the time down to 22 minutes. So that was part of that addition in that Stillwater facility from six to to nine.
00:06:48
Speaker
We had had a computer cutter that we put in there, put that addition on and and trying to get our cutting down. Was there a lot of trial and error in the beginning? Obviously, your background is pottery and arts. It was pottery, but but there was a lot of trial and error. And I think it's still important today. And I think if there's one, there many takeaways that we'll take from this conversation. But the one thing is that the fabric, you know, i was aligned with a couple of vendors that were very knowledgeable in fabrics.
00:07:21
Speaker
And I was always curious, it and I always like to learn in fabric. There's a lot of bad fabric out there. There's a lot of good fabric out there. And people don't realize it you know, for the extra couple of points to buy good fabric, whether we're washing it, you know, back in the 90s, we really weren't washing fabric as much as we are today, or hardly at all, to be honest with you.
00:07:42
Speaker
It's a pretty common practice now for people. And people don't realize fabrics a lot like skin, you know, if it dries out, it gets brittle. You know, everybody's had ah had a tent that's 10 years old.
00:07:54
Speaker
What's happening is the plasticizers, the oils have come to the surface and started to dry that out. In certain fabrics, that process happens quicker or they don't put enough plasticizers in it from the get-go, you know, making it stiff.
00:08:09
Speaker
So we're asking it to be stiff and hold a shape, but yet be flexible and being able to fold and go over it. There's three stages of vinyls, really. There's banner film, which is going to go up. It's going to go on a billboard. It's going to go on a sign.
00:08:23
Speaker
Very little, really stiff fabric. That's probably the lowest end. And then we have tent fabric. And then the best fabric is actually awning fabric. That's going up. It's staying up. It's going to get the most abuse from Mother Nature.
00:08:36
Speaker
So if you look at the grades of fabric, it goes from awning to tent to banner in most cases.
Reflections on Business Ventures and Design Improvements
00:08:43
Speaker
And a lot of people don't know that. they They see it, they feel it. Yeah, it feels like white or it's, you know, not quite as good.
00:08:50
Speaker
And did you always see yourself in the tent manufacturing world or did this path kind surprise you? Yeah, I had three companies. So I had the the pottery shop and then we had we were selling tents, had somebody else making them at that point, really.
00:09:04
Speaker
sort of rudimentary, sort of very simple, sort of chic tents early on. And then I had an import company out of the Philippines that we'd import baskets. So I had basically had three companies.
00:09:17
Speaker
So I would call on, on floral shops. I would do craft shows on the weekend, sell a few tents and, and Linda with her background in accounting said, really the tents were the only ones that were really profitable or or thought we should concentrate at.
00:09:31
Speaker
And when we focused in on that, that's sort of when we said, yeah, this media factory, I think we can do something with it. And then creating your book of business from there, and really reaching out to people to say, hey, we're here. How did you begin to do that with all these rental companies?
00:09:45
Speaker
Knocking on doors. You know, I knocked on him to them listened to them. I think one of the biggest things is that we did, if we look back, we repaired a lot of tents. So I knew what were weak spots.
00:09:57
Speaker
You know, what could we do differently? You know, fast forwarding to probably 20,000. twenty
00:10:06
Speaker
20, 2015, when the industry went over to Keter, we looked at Keter and we said, why are we getting all these tents in that have bad Keter, but yet the fabric is still good. And that's really when we came up and pushed the industry. And I think I would say 75 to 80% of the industry now is doing fully bonded Keter.
00:10:23
Speaker
And if they're not, it should 100%. It's no brainer. And that was one of the things in when we came down. We took 29 different keters from around the world, from Asian to Europe to domestic keter and said, okay, what we came up with a little machine and pushed it through an extrusion and counted the wear cycles.
00:10:41
Speaker
And we knew we would get three times the life expectancy on fully bonded keter over non-fully bonded keter. And I've done that a couple of times in manufacturing. So if you guys are old enough, and hopefully the cathedral windows used to be silkscreened, and people would wash them, you guys would come out with like regular car buffering tools to like try to get the calcium or the the mineral deposits off. You basically needed to put some vinegar on it, but that's another story.
00:11:08
Speaker
So what we came up with is we silkscreened, we printed the window, and then we encapsulated it in between two layers. In almost 100% of the industry, if you're not welding the grids on windows, you're printing them and encapsulating them into the vinyl. thats I came up with that.
00:11:24
Speaker
So as we repaired these tents, we saw the grids are missing. What can we do differently about the grids? We silkscreened them, laminated the two pieces of clear together, and encapsulated the grid. So we have no problem in washing or cleaning that window now.
00:11:39
Speaker
So we did the same thing with the cater. So those improvements, whether it be processes or materials, Improving on it. Okay.
Custom Projects and Business Stability
00:11:49
Speaker
Well, when I think Fred's Tents, I think of custom work because and just the innovation and things that you guys come up with, I think is just out of this world. And so think Fred's Tents is also known for a lot of their custom work and quality. What do you think kind of sets your tents apart from the rest when it comes to that?
00:12:04
Speaker
um You know, if I look back and say, you know, we were always willing to look at a job and it didn't make sense to do it. But I think if we look back, the Owl's Nest project that we did for Stanford, which we won that International Achievement Award, that really set us apart. It was a custom residence that had a Christmas party. It was had a 190-foot tent custom-built shape to contour around the back of the house and then it had two Loessberger structures that we worked together with some custom fabric on that. So it was a pretty, pretty in-depth custom job early on.
00:12:41
Speaker
Obviously we've done ah lot of different custom jobs since then, but if you look back and say which one, which one of the custom jobs or which one was it that really project it, We did another one, i think I think it's actually, we did another one for Stanford last year, which was 81 or 66 sailcloth, but the client didn't want to see any ratchets on the the water side. So we made these eight-inch schedule, 80 columns that the tent affixed to. So you see the picture, you don't realize it. But being a tent guy, if you look at that picture again, so it's a sailcloth, and on the water side, we we you made these huge columns, custom colored them, right to the same thing.
00:13:25
Speaker
But the client did not want any ratchets on the decking side. So pretty neat. So that see that you never know what they're to ask. Is that your favorite part of the job when someone comes to you with a custom project saying, how can we get this done?
00:13:40
Speaker
It's my favorite, but my least favorite, if it makes sense. You know, if I have my business hat on it, it involves the hours. What's nice is the industry has grown so we can close in some of those hours. I think a lot of those projects early on, I don't think we were tracking our hours probably as best as we should have.
00:13:59
Speaker
But now, the industry, it's a major decision at Fred's. You show a garden tent or a custom project, people somewhat forget that we're still a standard. We have a cookie cutter. We have ah a basic.
00:14:12
Speaker
No, we love doing those custom projects. they They take a lot of production. They usually have good numbers on them, but we still make 20 by 20 West Coast frame center peaks.
00:14:23
Speaker
It sort of scares off some of those new guys to the market. Everybody likes that wild picture, but the wild picture doesn't always pay the bills for the whole year. You know, we've been fortunate to sort of, we get a big one every year and it's a custom project and and we chase down with it and go with it.
00:14:40
Speaker
But at the end of the day, making a cell cloth frame tents and heater tents is, is our bread and butter. And that's what's on the shelf. Which product that you sell would you say is your bread and butter if you had to pick one?
00:14:52
Speaker
it so It's like asking you, what's your favorite piece of a sliced loaf of bread to make your peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Is it the first or the third or the 13th piece in the loaf?
00:15:02
Speaker
I think everybody in business, even you, with you know, the restroom and traveling, you have it down to like eight or 10 sort of segmented pieces and they all stick.
00:15:14
Speaker
And that's what you do. But what we have to do is look at those eight to 10 pieces and say, these are profitable and these are not profitable. And if we can do these that are more profitable and do more just standard porta potties or restroom, jobs you know, you you look at it. So and it's really hard.
00:15:32
Speaker
There's not, do I know which one has the most percentage of the overall? Yeah, but it fluctuates. You know, it's it's it's a cycle. You'll go through a cycle where it could be sailcloth is the,
00:15:44
Speaker
majority and and then next year it's 20 by 20s and 20 by 40s and this year everybody wanted 20 by 30s and there's no 20 by 30s on shelf because our record showed that you made 100 of them yeah but this year you needed 200 of them so it's a balancing act you know we have good data and we've gotten better at data and that's probably one thing that i wish i had done earlier is is is collect the data better and we look at it and we project you know what is the future what what's it going so i know you got a really good sales staff over there But if you could talk to us a little bit about you, you hit a little bit on just the not the custom stuff, the normal run of the mill stuff that you guys have in production. And a lot of the stuff we've been talking about is just trying to get the smaller guys more involved in the industry and kind of bring them up a little bit more.
00:16:28
Speaker
How are you and your stale sales staff going about that to really latch on early to these clients that are that are starting to come into the industry or that are starting to grow and bringing them into your fold?
00:16:41
Speaker
and convincing them that you're the guy and you're the team that can help them get it done. Right. So I think there's two things in the industry that we're going to contend with in the next five to 10 years.
Future Industry Changes and Workforce Challenges
00:16:52
Speaker
One is labor. we're We're addressing and everybody's working on the labor issue. The second thing is how is the generation, my generation, the older generation phasing out in the new generation. How are they gonna purchase or rent a tent?
00:17:06
Speaker
So we both have to contend with that. So we obviously know the computer, the cell phone is part of that vehicle, but where does it fit in? Is it 100%? Is it 25% of your marketing budget? So I think the days of 100% customer service with that, I think some of those rental companies will go go totally internet based, you know, that, that beginner product, I think you'll see them doing 80% of that transaction through the internet at some point. It just, that's the way of the future.
00:17:40
Speaker
And that's hard when we talk about custom products, but I think our standard product will move over that. So basically you can go online and just say, send me a 20 by 20 center.
00:17:51
Speaker
senator Can you operate a full rental business? business based on Shopify is is the key. you know It's pretty tough. So at some point of that transaction, a human element has to drop into it.
00:18:06
Speaker
But it's definitely changing from, i'd say, 95% human interaction five or 10 years ago to today where I think it's almost 80% non-human interaction ah twenty percent wrapping up we're not talking about festivals or stuff, but we're saying, you know, the, the, I don't even know if you can say bread and butter, but the standard rental and that's changing. and And I think that's important for, for young or, or new companies listening to us.
00:18:42
Speaker
What we did in the nineties is not what we did in the two thousands and not what we did in 2010. And definitely not what we're doing in, in 2025, your production, your rental,
00:18:54
Speaker
your Your delivery, your your sales have to change with time. But that also, that's also, I mean, um I'm of the younger generation, I'd say still, but also feel like I'm part of the old generation because I've been doing it for so long.
00:19:09
Speaker
And I still love that customer interaction and getting in front of people and shaking their hand and and and selling them the product automatically. Or just talking them through the product. But I also feel like the way to retain people nowadays, and probably even with your sales staff, it's a lot easier to retain people when they don't have to be on the road nearly as much.
00:19:26
Speaker
But they can interact with these people that are kind of coming in that are more used to doing phone calls and emails or or going online and just seeing things because they want to see it and they want to see it now. They don't want to wait for you to come to their shop and sit down and talk to them. Am I right?
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the the time, and this is the yin and the yang, you know, we're doing electric vehicles that we have to sit for four hours to charge them, but yet we're we're going to rent a tent, but we want an answer in 30 seconds. So, you know, right that's the yin and the yang.
00:19:56
Speaker
We want to rest, but we want to rest when we do. know, the other thing that happens, which I don't understand, is this younger generation wants an instant answer, but yet you have to schedule an appointment to talk to him on a Thursday so at 1 o'clock.
00:20:11
Speaker
So if you picked up the phone, you could get the answer today, but I can send you back, hey, I can talk to you on Thursday at 1.30. I have a 30-minute block. So it's a learning curve. It's a learning curve for us older guys. You guys are younger, but you know that's the yin and the yang as as these two age and demographics sort of mirror into doing business together.
00:20:33
Speaker
Oh, I had that the other day. i had a first the other day with just that. I had a big client send me an email. We'd been going back and forth with just conversations on stuff. And she actually sent me an email that said, hey, if you could go ahead and just put some time on my calendar, here's the link. And then we'll we'll go ahead and we'll talk.
00:20:48
Speaker
And I was like, what? I never have I had to go put time on customers calendar. that was That was new for me. You can't just schedule a meeting. Right. i think it's I think it's got to, it'll pan out. I don't know where it's going to go. i don't know where.
00:21:04
Speaker
AI is going to do what it's going to do. i think it'll change on communication, but I'm of the old school. I want to see, Kyle, I want to see your expression when I say something and I can get get a read and it's easier to control that customer.
00:21:22
Speaker
You know, if so yeah if it's going down, you may need to be firm, but hold back and read that client, which is very hard to do when you're doing it electronically.
00:21:34
Speaker
So you brought up labor, obviously on the rental side, labor is a big issue. How do you see it affecting manufacturing and what are you doing to kind of combat that? That was three questions. I'd like to break it down. You know, what are we doing about labor? You know, labor it is hard. I, you know, everybody has labor issues.
00:21:55
Speaker
You go through ups and downs or valleys, you know, you have a good crew and then One jumps and it seems like it takes three more with you whatever. And that's a hard segment. What I think the industry is doing is saying that we have a viable career. And you've talked about this in other podcasts. So I think it's the catalyst between an owner or a manager that those leads are players that can motivate their team and keep the team together. I i think that's the key spot that I see a lot of people, whether they're not big enough or they don't have the depth to get that lead because you guys are tied up so much with your schedule and and booking and logistics and and and moving everything.
00:22:42
Speaker
ah you have to have that person you know i was amazed about 10 years i was in 10 years ago i was introduced to a guy and He had, we were doing a golf tournament. It was sponsored. It was a fundraiser.
00:22:54
Speaker
And this guy had two employees that were just happy employees. All they did is walk around the company, make sure everybody's happy. Like you having a bad day, you need a back rub. And i was like, well, who can afford somebody to just walk around the company and, you know, see if somebody's all right. But, hype man you know, let let's scale that down and apply it to us.
00:23:14
Speaker
who is the liaison between whatever culture or whatever ethnicity you have as your labor force to do it? Like you might think this is rewarding, but they don't see it. So how do we, what do we do? What do we what do we do to involve them into our family better to keep them?
00:23:32
Speaker
It was great. We just had our summer picnic this week, Wednesday. And I think we had 80, some people go to the golf outing and it was a miniature golf course and I probably had 40 people last year that didn't golf, didn't think through it. You know what i mean?
00:23:47
Speaker
Just you you take it so much for granted. But this year we had we had two people that had never played miniature golf before. You know, those are the things you have to connect the dots when when something's questioned somebody else. And it's a small thing. I knew you have to bring that.
00:24:03
Speaker
to your column and make it a big issue for you because it's a big issue for them. And it's going to turn into a firestorm if you don't put it out or take care of it. yeah So just a fun fact, three of those people that never golfed last year placed in the top five.
00:24:20
Speaker
thats a trophy So that was good. So most of practicing. so Yeah. Well, and I think I'm guilty of this as well, but, you know, when we get into busy time and we're doing all these big projects, whether you be from a manufacturer or a rental company in the sales portion or whatever you're at, you know, we see that we get the instant gratification when we see that job go up and it's done and it's completed and in in the looks of it and the pictures and everything like that. We we see it as a management side or an upper management side.
00:24:45
Speaker
But the people that are actually physically doing the labor and doing the job, they don't always get to see what they've done when the finished product is done. Yeah, they see what they put up, but they don't see when it's done with everything inside of it and you know fully decked out and everything like that. And I think maybe as an industry, we don't always give the recognition to those people as much.
00:25:04
Speaker
And I think that could go a long way to make a lot of people feel appreciated as that as a whole. You know, you bring up a good point. and we We address that. probably 15 years or now it wasn't 15 years because it was in within this building and the new building we've been in 11 years.
00:25:17
Speaker
We put up pictures of big jobs that we've done from the manufacturing team. They, they have not all gone to a match or they haven't gone to an ATA and seen a full blown setup and they're manufacturing. So we ended up printing big, almost billboard side pictures of different jobs and put them around our manufacturing facility of, of jobs that they've they've,
00:25:42
Speaker
produced and put out there and I think it's important you know if you could take those guys you know take more to the end result of that install I think they see what they have so I think that's important absolutely so what going uh going back over here to the production innovation what's one tent that you've built now that you you're just especially proud of and why I think that you know introducing that that Garden Tent series, you both have have that series and where that's evolved and how many people have knocked it off or are producing it now.
00:26:19
Speaker
I was trying to figure out when I was thinking that that I was coming onto this podcast and and what I was going to do. and And Linda said, you always ask what or why, what made that different? and And I think one of the things that we did different is We always did our own patterns.
00:26:36
Speaker
A lot of people will come with a concept, send it to an engineer and have them develop the product. But we would always come up with a project or a direction, build the project, build it out and own the patterns and send it out to the engineering. They approved our patterns.
00:26:52
Speaker
So it gave us a little bit more of an advantage on the design element side. So I think proportionately things looked a little bit better. Take our nine foot doors. We always said,
00:27:03
Speaker
You walk into this great big structure and it's it's got a little 6, 10 foot door. It needed a grander entrance. So we were able to say, let's let's blow that out. we We took it to eight. I didn't think eight was enough and then took it to nine. So it wasn't like giving it to an engineer and say, come up with this.
00:27:23
Speaker
We want to make a garden tent or we want to make a door. We owned that. design and pattern element internally, and then send it out to engineering. That was one thing that we did through the pole tents, through the sailcloth series, through our garden tent, through our breakwater and all of those elements that we've done.
00:27:45
Speaker
Well, on doors, you just made what, 27 footers? Yeah. it was 28, 28 foot door. That's a big door. i think it was a twenty eight twenty eight foot door that's a big door yeah ah Yeah, but we were we were ah successful with that.
00:28:01
Speaker
Would you do it again? Would I make another set? Sure. I'd make another set. It pays the bills, Kyle. It pays the bills. ah Well, I don't know if that one paid the bill. It'll eventually pay the bills. We like a project. ah Unfortunately, I've developed a team that really likes a project.
00:28:19
Speaker
and We had a project the other day and they brought it to us and And i asked him, I said, why did you do He goes, I just did what I do every time you bring me a project. I i figured it out.
00:28:30
Speaker
But I said, we're not making any money. so So we can usually figure it out, but but it's got to make it's got of make sense and and be the right thing. so Well, what are some common mistakes or misconceptions that you see from people ordering tents or even doors or stuff like
Business Advice and Client Relations
00:28:45
Speaker
that?
00:28:45
Speaker
To know what lane they play in. Everybody can progress. Everybody sees the big, fancy jobs and high-profile jobs. But I have a lot of successful people that do a lot of, i don't want to say low-end jobs because it's not the right word, but smaller jobs that are very successful.
00:29:05
Speaker
So don't get taken away by those big jobs. You have to know what you are. You have to know what your ability is. Are you able to order a crane and have this being brought over the rooftop? and And are you willing to travel? Are the regulations in that town different than where I am and I'm used to?
00:29:27
Speaker
So I think it's that's probably one of the biggest misconceptions that people wander too far from their lane before they're ready. Everybody's progressing. Everybody's learning.
00:29:39
Speaker
But At what point is it time to step off the lane and educate myself or learn that next experience? I think that's that's important. Well, I think a lot of people, like you're saying, they see the shiny project or the cool pictures and they say, oh I want to do that.
00:29:54
Speaker
Not knowing fully what actually goes into that or that maybe that company didn't make any money on that job at all by the time it was done. Yeah. Yeah. You know, doing, you know, we've done installs or sold product to people, to rental companies that have twenty four seven installed because of the window.
00:30:13
Speaker
You know, if we we we look at last mattress that we did with with you guys, putting that that decking and putting that structure up, it was a five-day install. But we said, can we do it in two and a half days? And we had it set up to where we're going to go 24 hours a day if we need to, if we hit bad weather.
00:30:32
Speaker
And that's just things that we need to do as an organization, teach these people and make them aware of, you know, what do we do if it goes bad? What do we do if we have a ah weather delay?
00:30:43
Speaker
We're one of the few industries where you can't move the deadline. Correct. and I always say we're contractors with a definite deadline. You know, that that person that's building that house or that, municipality or or whatever, you know, the fixtures didn't come in and we'll be there and next week for the plumber.
00:30:59
Speaker
You know, some of the events that you do, they're televised or, you know, they have other things that drive it that are out of our control that we have to perform.
00:31:11
Speaker
And we do a great job. You know, the network, you know, we really haven't talked about it or and I haven't heard. What is your network? Where's your network of people to so back you up? Is it a manufacturer? Is it another a rental company?
00:31:23
Speaker
that you share inventories with those alliances, as much as educating at these trade shows are ah very important because when it does go bad, who, who, who we have to lean on? Who do you call? Well, I think, I think a lot of,
00:31:39
Speaker
companies when they're small need to realize that getting your network with your manufacturer might be more important than your network with a fellow rental company. Because you need someone like yourself or your sales team.
00:31:52
Speaker
I need them in my corner. So if up my back's against the wall, I can say, hey, Heather, Fred, I'm really screwed on this. What can we do? and Yeah. And we had a situation like that last year. I won't tell you the client or I won't tell you the project, but Another tent manufacturer made it and they were, whether they didn't have supplies or didn't have labor, doesn't matter.
00:32:10
Speaker
We've all helped each other out or we would help each other out. Had a tent blow down on a Thursday or Friday. It was a Friday because I got a call on Saturday. The event was a high end vent that was going to go off no matter what on Tuesday.
00:32:27
Speaker
We told the client we would reproduce the tent. We started drawing the tent on Sunday. started manufacturing at seven o'clock in the morning. We went into our tracking, our data and our labor and our our yardage.
00:32:41
Speaker
And we said we could have a Sprinter van ready to leave at seven o'clock Monday night. And at 6.59, I have a picture of Linda shutting the door of the Sprinter van that had to get halfway across the state of the country and get it set up for an event.
00:32:58
Speaker
And the event went off. They had to turn it over to the decorator on Tuesday. The event was that Thursday. but from a Saturday night to monday morning to to Monday at seven o'clock, finishing a massive tent and having to draw and build it.
00:33:14
Speaker
you know That was a relationship with a customer that yeah they're very grateful that we could do it. And we definitely, all of you that are listening out there, we don't like Saturday calls that we have to get it.
00:33:25
Speaker
But if you have a relationship and you're good to us, we're gonna be good to you and tell you what we can and can't do. But that was definitely a situation where we had to bail a couple of people out and get it. So I think that's one of those things that I was hitting on though, as you got a lot of these new guys there and these smaller guys that are coming into the industry and bringing them in the fold. Once, you know, you start doing these networking at the shows and everything and, and you hit it off with a salesperson from a, and the manufacturer might not not be you in particular, Fred, but it might be Heather. And they hit it off with Heather and they know that now they've built this relationship. They're going to constantly call Heather when they know they have an issue and get the product when they need it.
00:34:05
Speaker
And I think that that the networking with the salespeople and everything like that, they may not be coming to their shop and they may not want to meet with them there. But when they go to the shows, they're going to meet with them and they're going dinner with them or have some drinks with them. and they're going build that really good bond with them and keep them coming back, I feel like.
00:34:20
Speaker
That's my theory if we we we jump back to what we talked earlier about earlier about that, is what happens when this industry, whether it be from the rental side or from the manufacturing side, goes to 80% non-human interaction.
00:34:34
Speaker
You can't, if you're you have a client and your customer has an issue with the tent or something, You can't go to ah an AI location and you get the call on Monday.
00:34:44
Speaker
So there's still got to be that human element from the sales side and from the rental side. There's still going to be an element. You know, they've got to have a contact. They've got to have something to get back as we change how much of that and what is what of that is going to change.
00:35:00
Speaker
And that was kind of going into my next question on how the industry has shifted in the last 10 years and where do you kind of see headed next? I think, where do I see? You know, I thought back in the 90s when I got into this industry that Kripers, I only got to work six months and take the rest of the six months off. And, you know, I can, you know, surfboard or something or skateboard.
00:35:22
Speaker
And obviously, you know, the industry from where it was 20 years ago is 13 business. year business. You know, we only have 12 months. So I think you'll see material development and better recycling of the products. Those are the two. So developing better products that hold up stronger, but yet are more recyclable.
00:35:49
Speaker
Which is a big thing. Yeah. I would love that. You know, that that i think there'll be some innovations, you know, could we have sat here and said 20 years ago,
00:36:01
Speaker
were we going to have a 10 ox? You know, it's funny. We're going back through some matra photos. I was going through bunch of the years and we all had those whackers or Atlas Copcos. And, you know, it was almost like tent music when you were sleeping with a hangover in the hotel and you knew anchor or Aztec or, or Fred's was out there and you heard that, you know, that state going in, it was like, ah, it's another matra.
00:36:26
Speaker
And now we go there and we've got a 10 ox and, you know, the team over there are great to to bring in those machines and the stakes are in, in a couple hours. and You don't have that piercing. So I think you should make a CD with just those old whacker Atlas Copco music. on the tree on that That's funny. As I was sitting downstairs the other day, watching the show and I kept turning the volume up, turn the volume up. I didn't even notice it. And my wife was like, have you cleaned your ears lately? And i was like, yeah.
00:36:56
Speaker
She's like, have you gone and got them flushed out? And I was like, know why and she's like i'm starting to think you're going deaf because you keep turning the tv up louder and louder every night you're down here and all i can think about is it's probably all them years of uh no earplugs with them damn whackers well linda's got a speaker that she sets next to my chair you know when it goes too high so if if if your wife starts bringing a speaker over and sets it by your chair you know you know what to do maybe you've got some got some issues so well i think Now that you've brought Linda into this conversation, let's nail that down a little bit.
00:37:30
Speaker
So Linda has been a big part of what you've done and what you guys have created over there at Fred's Tents. And I know that Kyle wants to ask who the boss is over there. But also just tell us a little bit about Linda and how how she's impacted Fred's Tents and what she's done. Because, I mean, everywhere you are, Linda is.
00:37:49
Speaker
Everywhere you know something's going on with Fred's Tents, Linda's there. And I know she's been a big part of it. But just tell us a little little bit about that. So, yeah, so she, it was funny, uh, at our old building, uh, our offices were about six foot apart and somebody had started a rumor that, uh, we were getting divorced after the third person called, I opened my door and I yelled over, I said, Linda, you leaving me?
00:38:12
Speaker
she says, no, why? and I said, I just got three calls that somebody said that we're getting divorced. That was a funny one. She, she wasn't leaving. She was around and, uh, Then people would call and not know that we were married and that Fred's always with that Linda. I think something's going on there. So, yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
So we are married. She left public accounting when we had our second child, Amanda. That was 27 years ago. She was a CPA, worked in public accounting, and then did ah Fred's Tense books on the weekends.
00:38:47
Speaker
And then with our second child, I just got, and I said, I think we can make a go of it. and Hopefully, we can pay the bills, because at that time, she was the only one that had a steady paycheck coming in. I said, And then she said she quit.
00:38:59
Speaker
And I said, you quit. You better go back. I'm not sure if we can make it. So we were able to make it. She left 27 years ago. So to get back, you know, what is Linda's role or what does she do?
00:39:09
Speaker
I want to bring a third person in. My second employee, his brother was my first employee. Todd has been with me pretty much from the get go and real smart guy, been with me a long time. So I would have the vision.
00:39:24
Speaker
Todd would help me. make it happen and then Linda would figure out how we could get paid for it or collect the money. So our team is way deeper and I'm very fortunate to have the team that we are. But if you look early on, those were the three that were able to sort of make that happen. And and we've just added a new Mike, a new GM, which is doing a great job.
00:39:50
Speaker
And then the addition to our our sales teams through the years. But yeah, so everybody sort of had their lane. Like Todd had his his lane, Linda had her financial lane. I had my creativity lane.
00:40:05
Speaker
But yeah, she's ah she's an integral part. and trying to get that work-life balance. I will tell you, we ended up buying a motorhome. Boy, when I'm trying to think when that was, the years go by so quick, but I can remember traveling out to Mount Rushmore and seeing and clients with our children.
00:40:24
Speaker
So I'd see a customer come back out, get in the motorhome, I'd be with my kids. So it was a good way that we could do a work-life balance. and be able to travel with the kids, but see clients and and grow our footprint nationally with that.
00:40:38
Speaker
so Speaking of that portion, do you find it hard to geographically get customers? It's got to be harder for you to sell to someone in California than it is in upstate New York.
00:40:49
Speaker
Believe it or not, you know California back in the late 90s was our biggest state. It's different. As the projects get bigger or if we go to that standard stuff, crossing the Rockies, obviously, you know we've got freight's an issue for all manufacturers. Nothing just excludes to us. if you If you look at the four majors, you know you've got a West Coast, mid men of the country, up in New England, and then you've got Frankfurt, Virginia sort of area.
00:41:19
Speaker
Logistics, you know, that is something we have we all have to look at as far as manufacturing. But no, we put a person or salesperson in there when we were able to early on. It was me traveling the country or or trying to do some sort of marketing.
00:41:33
Speaker
But, you know, once you give that person a territory and and they're doing it, you know, you can judge it pretty clearly that way. Yeah, love that. What keeps you motivated after all these years in the industry?
Leadership and Industry Legacy
00:41:45
Speaker
I mean, just, I know you've got a lot of new products that you guys keep rolling out, but I mean, you've been in it long enough now. What, what just keeps you going?
00:41:52
Speaker
You know, the team, Kyle, Kyle's wife, you know, so the projects, the industry, the growth, and you see it. The one hard thing, it was a lot easier chasing somebody than to be chased.
00:42:09
Speaker
So, you know, you sort of almost got to be careful of what you wish for. You know, it's a lot harder when you see people. knocking off your products or or chasing you. You know, it's a lot easier to chase somebody than to be chased.
00:42:22
Speaker
But what drives me to come into work every day, the teams, the projects, the the deadlines, know, there's sort of a, is there ah a runner's high in the tent industry? Is there a tent high?
00:42:35
Speaker
ah getting that project or seeing that project through and getting it set up. I think we're all, all the, the greats have a little default to that and say, okay, I've got a little, what are we going to call it? We got to come up with a good name.
00:42:48
Speaker
What is the, the tent high or the, the runner's high that we can say yeah that person's got the, so the industry or the, the tent, the tent buzz, you know? So, you know, I think part of it's that too.
00:43:03
Speaker
Well, think that, As far as chasing something goes, one thing you're not chasing is your legacy. So you've already established a pretty good legacy in this industry, very damn good legacy in this industry. But what legacy do you, as Fred, hope that Fred's sense leaves behind?
00:43:17
Speaker
I think it's important that if you look at everything as a rental, okay, or a segment of time, when it's time for me to pass on, did I leave the industry in a better way than I did when I came into it? And I think I did with some of those things that we've added or made aware of it, whether it be fully bonded, heated, encapsulated window, powder coated wood, aluminum, wood grain,
00:43:40
Speaker
the addition to color, to a frame. If you look at some of those accomplishments or what we've been able to do, I was always good at looking at other industries. It's harder to do as we got bigger and the wins or the big milestones don't come as quickly.
00:43:57
Speaker
But what is in another industry that we can bring to this industry and make work? you know If you look at the 10 OX, the 10 OX, their biggest segment I think it's horticulture or lumberjacks or wood.
00:44:09
Speaker
Somebody, and I think it was Scott, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, saw the vision that this product fits the tent industry. And those were some of my my big checks that, hey, this would look good in our industry.
00:44:25
Speaker
Can we sell it? Does it make sense and bring it into it? So I'm hoping that I leave that rental or bring that rental back to whoever takes it further in a better way than when I started it.
00:44:39
Speaker
So as we're wrapping up here, Fred, we always ask the same question. What's the best piece of advice you could give to someone new to the industry how they could do things better? Whew, that's, a you know you know, there's so many, it really depends on that level.
00:44:55
Speaker
so So knowing, and that's one thing I'm helping or working with my salespeople, they need to know their customer. I don't i don't mean personally, and I don't mean that,
00:45:06
Speaker
They play basketball or volleyball, but what level are they at? Because I think that direction is different because I may give somebody that's entering the market a different advice than somebody that I would consider a veteran or a a sophomore or junior.
00:45:22
Speaker
so So it's a hard question to to say. I think stay in that lane and taking a page out of Warren Buffett. Don't finance luxury. Be aware of what you're buying.
00:45:34
Speaker
I think after 2008, we would do a lot of pre-orders. If you guys remember before 2008 or you were in kindergarten or whatever, you know, the industry sort of bought a tent based on spec for next year.
00:45:48
Speaker
2008, it was a hard time. And the industry did a big change then where I can sub-rent it or I have it rented three times. It makes sense to bring it into your balance sheet.
00:46:01
Speaker
Knowing your hard cost from your labor, to what it costs you to do a job that really helped as we got to it. I think it's important that will help anybody at any level that they play at.
00:46:13
Speaker
Yeah. I really like your stay in your lane thing. I think a lot of people and I don't know if stay in the lane is the right word for it, but what the concept behind what you're saying is actually find your niche. Yeah. Find your niche and and live there.
00:46:26
Speaker
You can make a great living that way. We talk about that all the time, and it doesn't matter how big or small you are. Just find your niche. Don't try and go above and beyond if if you if you have a niche already.
00:46:36
Speaker
Stay there. Yeah, don't worry what the picture looks like. Correct. And that's when people grow too big. and Is it safe? Is it safe? And did it did it make sense? And did it make money? Yeah. correct And unfortunately, I've had to tell a couple of customers, I don't really think that product is for you at this point.
00:46:55
Speaker
It's a bad idea. Yeah. it's there's not a lot of people that will do it. um but that's part of I'm not going to try to change. And the other thing that I did is I always tried to do the right thing.
00:47:07
Speaker
There's there's always going to be conflict. There's always going to be a problem or human, whether you forget something or something's done wrong. You need to take care of it and do it right.
00:47:18
Speaker
I've never been hurt by always doing the right thing, taking care of the situation. And that's important. Don't be a bean counter. and not do the appropriate thing. You may not like it, but what is that going to affect your bottom line in the future?
00:47:32
Speaker
A lot of people get short-sighted and cut it and not think through, how can I save it? There's some relationships. I think one of my most successful years was when I fired probably 20% of my customers.
00:47:45
Speaker
It just wasn't a fit. It wasn't right, or they didn't pay well, or they didn't do Why are you struggling? There's enough out there. And we have to educate them to like, the these are the terms.
00:47:56
Speaker
We're going to do this. We're going to give you this product. This is what going to be. And you need to pay me within these terms. It's pretty straightforward. but That's what those things you keep sending me are, Fred. Those are bills.
00:48:09
Speaker
They are bills. oh They are bills. They say pass. Do I know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're sitting with what you're talking about, if you're setting that expectation up front with them and you're being open and honest with them, I can only imagine within this industry, just knowing everybody that they appreciate that more than anything. And that's how you build that trust. Now, if you start bullshitting them and lying to them, they're going to notice it real quick. And that's when they start to go to another manufacturer. So bringing them in the fold and just being open and honest with them and just setting that expectation.
00:48:36
Speaker
Like, I don't like gray area. I like it to be black and white. And it seems pretty straightforward. Like, we do this with our our managers and our upper staff. Try to go over and, you know, everything is, we try to talk about reviews. Let's talk about reviews. So, employees, we talked a little bit about, if you set it up so there's no surprises. So, it it's usually task-oriented.
00:49:00
Speaker
So we're going to add three more 10 oxes and clean them. And i've talked a lot about 10 oxes, but it's a good representation that we all can sort of shout out. no shout out ah So in a review, we would say we want to have like one of the projects we're doing, we're doing a new CRM system that has to be done by October. So when you sit down with that person, we're going to do your review in a year.
00:49:24
Speaker
you already know what it is. You know if it performed. We're going to grow sales by 5%. Then it comes in and you've grown it by 3%. That person knows what to expect when they walk into that meeting.
00:49:35
Speaker
So the surprise element that you take out of the gray area with a customer or an employee You negotiate that and you're both on the same page. Because what you don't want is that employer to inspect 10%.
00:49:48
Speaker
ten percent He thinks 2% of growth and it's really 5%. You have to be on the same page. So if you talk about it before and then when it comes time and go over it it makes a lot more sense.
00:50:01
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Fred, I know that we could go on for another hour here and we definitely will at another time.
Closing Remarks and Gratitude
00:50:07
Speaker
We'll have to bring you back on, but it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. And I know your passion and craft and dedication to the quality and just your perspective on where the industry is heading is just invaluable.
00:50:18
Speaker
But before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to share with yeah our listeners, maybe where they can find Fred's tents or how to connect with you? Look at the trade shows. We are bringing back the Tuesday tent talk. If you've got a topic, email it in at WeMakeTents.com, TTT at WeMakeTents.com, apologize.
00:50:35
Speaker
But I think seeing the younger generation doing and educating what you guys are doing is is unbelievable. And keep up the good work.
00:50:46
Speaker
We support you as a manufacturer. The industry supports you. Keep that going. It's only going to help our industry in all segments, from the sales, from the labor, from the employee.
00:50:58
Speaker
And let's continue to build this industry because I don't think we're at the top of the hill yet. We got a lot to go. i think we're not even halfway up. This thing is going to grow bigger and bigger.
00:51:11
Speaker
As we get new employees in, we tell them about the 10 industry. Even if they don't last, they always said, this is a lot bigger than I ever thought it was going to be. So we're still educating. Absolutely. Well, thanks again, Fred, and thank you for everyone for tuning in today.
00:51:25
Speaker
As always, you found this episode helpful or inspiring, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with someone else in the industry who you think might appreciate it. But thanks again, Fred, and this has been another episode of Under the Vinyl.
00:51:36
Speaker
right. Thanks, Kyle. Don't forget, cue the music for Tuesday 10 Talk right here.