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Nos Audietis, Episode 294: Remember scoring?
50 Plays6 years ago
We knew this was going to happen eventually. Some team was going to decide that going toe-to-toe with the Sounders made absolutely no sense and would simply opt to bunker and hope to catch them on the counter. That it was the Vancouver Whitecaps at BC Place in just the fourth game of the season is, admittedly, a little bit of a surprise but give them credit for executing a game plan.
The 0-0 tie was definitely frustrating, but at least it wasn’t a 1-0 loss as likely would have been the case if Robert Sibiga had not reversed his penalty call deep into stoppage time. That allowed the Sounders to set a new franchise record by claiming their 10th point through four games, tied for the second most points in the league and third best goal difference. All in all not a bad place to be.
Jeremiah and Likkit discuss the game while taking your questions.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Want to hear the music from the show in their glorious, full versions? Check out the Nos Audietis playlist on Spotify!
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Transcript
Introduction to '36 Bottles of Wine'
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food, lots of it. Fulpel's unique writing style is applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Seattle Sounders vs. Vancouver Whitecaps: 0-0 Tie
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Fuck! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Morris runs right by him and sticks in and slots in him for a bowl. Fantastic for Jordan Morris.
00:00:55
Speaker
Here's Morris! Morris! I'm back in the net! What do the tigers dream of? They take a little tigers. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills, the greenest green in Seattle.
00:01:24
Speaker
like a beautiful child growing up. Welcome to another edition of NOS Adiatus, sponsored by Full Pool Wines. This is episode 294, and we're recording on Tuesday, April 2nd, 2019. I am your host, Jeremiah O'Shan. My normal co-host, Aaron Campo, is on vacation, but never fear, because Lick It will be filling in.
00:01:44
Speaker
We knew this was going to happen eventually. Some team was going to decide that going toe to toe with the Sounders made absolutely no sense. It would simply opt to bunker and hope to catch them on the counter. That is what the Vancouver Whitecaps at BC, that's what happened at BC Place against Vancouver Whitecaps in just the fourth game of the season. Admittedly, it's a little bit of a surprise, but give them credit for executing a game plan.
00:02:07
Speaker
The 0-0 tie was definitely frustrating, but at least it wasn't a 1-0 loss as likely would have been the case if Robert Zabiga had not reversed his penalty call deep into stoppage time. That allowed the Sounders to set a new franchise record by claiming their 10th point through four games tied for the second most points in the league and third best in goal difference. All in all, not really a bad place to be, Lickett. What were your feelings following what was, I think, roundly considered a frustrating tie?
00:02:34
Speaker
First off, I just wanted to welcome a Vancouver Whitecaps to the killed soccer club. Yes, exclusive club. Yeah, I was frustrated to watch. I mean, we kind of figured they were going to try to not lose, which is weird to do at home, I guess, in front of your fans. But yeah, how many times did Casey Keller say that he expected them to try to entertain their fans during that broadcast at least 100 times?
00:02:59
Speaker
But yeah, it was not very fun to watch very frustrating. It's not surprising at all that we didn't didn't have very much joy. Yeah, you know, it was funny I watched the game back yesterday, and the first half definitely had some moments of
00:03:17
Speaker
of quality buildup, but for the most part was pretty disjointed. I thought the beginning of the second half was pretty good though. Um, you know, up until about the 65th, 70th minute, the Sounders were doing a pretty good job of, of, of trying to get into transition, trying to force Vancouver to defend, uh, facing the goal a little bit more things that they've done so well in the first three games. But man, I swear, I don't think it's at all an exaggeration to say that
00:03:46
Speaker
They, there were always two or three players waiting for the centers in the box like no matter what happened no matter how you know how quickly the centers tried to get out and transition. There were just guys waiting there. And you know if you look at the, at the average position maps it's pretty remarkable.
00:04:03
Speaker
Vancouver had like nine players in their defensive end. The Sounders had eight players in their offensive end. And even more than that, the two center backs were barely playing in front of the penalty area, whereas the Sounders, all their outfield players were up near the midfield stripe. Just a very different approach from two different teams that had very different ideas. That said, Daniil Henry,
00:04:30
Speaker
had a pretty impressive game as far as clearing balls out of the box and getting in the way. There was a chance in the second half where there was, I think it was a free kick and Chad Marshall headed it back across the goal to Rui Diaz, who most of the time you expect that to be a goal, but his shot was blocked
00:04:51
Speaker
by diving to Neil Henry and actually blocked pretty forcefully because he had his whole body in front of him. But just an example of how deep Vancouver was playing. I don't remember the last time we saw quite that deep of a block.
00:05:06
Speaker
Um, so yeah, frustrating for sure. Yeah. It's definitely heard. You definitely heard and saw donated under being called a lot playing defensively. But on the other hand, when you are called to only defend a small rectangle area, the whole game, you're going to be involved in a lot of plays. Yeah. That was one of those games, you know, and I know that there's questions about this and I think it's a legitimate issue. Like what do you do to break down a bunker like that?
00:05:36
Speaker
I mean, I think unfortunately the answer is you just got to score a goal, because you have to force Vancouver to play. And, and until you can kind of break through and who knows how you know the, who knows how to the rapids game would have gone at the centers didn't get that early goal.
00:05:54
Speaker
or how the Chicago game for that matter might've gone. Although Chicago, I think was a little bit more inclined to try to play with the Sounders for whatever reason. But yeah, I mean, I think if you can't get that early goal, you're just kind of stuck. Like you just keep having to try a goal. And it wasn't like the Sounders didn't create chances. It's not like they stopped playing the game that they had played the first three matches. It was just,
00:06:21
Speaker
When you have eight guys in the box, literally, you could pause your screen at any point in that game, and there were literally eight guys in or around the penalty area. That's just going to be tough to break down.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the little half chances he might have gotten the other games just weren't there or they closed earlier because of all the bodies in the box. I mean, it's just that's not too much you can do except for what you said, you know, you have to, one of your balls has to go in and then that will loosen up their defense for sure.
00:06:53
Speaker
You know, one of the plays that could have changed his game dramatically was in the sixth or seventh minute. Rui Diaz had a cross into the box. Eric Godoy has his arm behind him. It clearly hits his arm. I think you can argue that the defender gained an advantage now.
00:07:12
Speaker
Keller to I think correctly argues that that's not a purposeful handball that that's not you know that if you're putting your hand down behind you when you're making a slide tackle. That's just a natural thing that you're going to do at the same time.
00:07:27
Speaker
You're gaining an advantage, you're making yourself bigger, and IFAB recently made a ruling. Now this won't necessarily go into effect until next year, but they identified that exact kind of play where a defender is making themselves bigger, even if it's not a person's full handling of the ball. And if they're gaining an advantage, now if that ball goes through, Jordan Morris is sitting right there potentially able to put a shot on frame. What do you think should have happened there? Should that have been a penalty?
00:07:55
Speaker
I mean, none of the current rules have been super harsh, but then again, I can also see that being called on our team. Right. That's our luck. But, uh, I always go back to the, to the 2000, what was it? 2012, Adam Johansson. Yes. The Adam Johansson one where Robin, Robbie Keene just basically, uh, made that happen, made that happen. But anyway, go ahead.
00:08:16
Speaker
That was rude. I just, I mean, as an old defender, it would have been harsh. It wouldn't super harsh. I mean, you can barely do anything about that. I mean, you're sliding at the ball, you're trying to keep yourself from, you know, slam yourself on the ground and it hits your arm. And it's not super like he was trying to go after the ball with his arm.
00:08:41
Speaker
But it sucks. It sucks on our side because, you know, that definitely is like basically a handball dog. So, you know, right. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's one of those things where it would be harsh. Um, I think we're going to see that called a lot more in the future. Um, but you know, the, no one's making Godoy go to the ground there. No one's making him go for a slight tackle. I think I'm with you. I think it would have felt a little, it would have felt harsh. It would have felt maybe even a little soft, but, um,
00:09:10
Speaker
I just also can't help but feel like the Sounders are going to get that call against them at some point this year and we're going to feel like a different referee crew probably calls that. So Bijia doesn't seem to call those really close ones at all.
00:09:22
Speaker
Although then at the end of the game, he did call the penalty, which I, I, I don't, I guess what we were being told and what it sounded like he said was that Kim came in from behind. And so therefore had to go through the player to get the ball, the replay. I don't, but the thing that doesn't work for me is that he's having to run.
00:09:46
Speaker
parallel to the goal to get in position to make that block. Amazing play.
00:09:53
Speaker
And if it was about the trailing leg, he would have, he would have kept the call good, but what a relief that I got overturned.
VAR Review Saves Sounders
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah. This is what I think happened because as I was watching in disbelief at the whole thing unfold, they cut to a shot of Sabidya talking to players and then pointing to his earpiece and he's completely trying to catch his breath. So on that counter, it just seemed like he was trailing behind the plate trying to keep up.
00:10:21
Speaker
Not like he's out of shape, but like, you know, I hit the yard 60 yards and he sees this close play and he's like, I've got VAR for this. I just have to make sure that this is, you know, I'm going to call it. We're going to make sure it's a play. Right. I don't know. That's just maybe make excuses for him. That's plausible. I will say that's a plausible explanation. And I actually think that that's.
00:10:41
Speaker
a fine way of using var it's not ideal but if his mindset going into that like if he blows the whistle with the mindset of i want to see this again i would be okay with that i think the thing that maybe makes me question that is how long it took them to make that decision to go to var i don't yeah which i don't quite understand like it was
00:11:05
Speaker
like the the full time the full speed play looked like he blocked the shot you just see the way the ball ricocheted off it looks like he blocked the shot whether or not he got him with the trailing leg
00:11:19
Speaker
I'll say this again, if the call was, well, he got him with the trailing leg, then it's still a penalty, so why did they overturn it? But if it's about whether or not he got the ball first, whether he came in from a clean angle, all those things, it just seems like it took too long for them to figure that out before they, I mean, because it ended up being like a five minute delay, which I think is one of the criticisms of VAR is that,
00:11:44
Speaker
we shouldn't be having five minute delays, especially as late in the game like that, where, you know, there would have potentially only been 30 seconds left in the match if that is allowed to play out. And it's like two minutes of out of time. Right. I mean, if anything, there maybe maybe gives you excuses that they're having trouble getting the replay because it took them took the TV broadcast. Yeah. Several tries to get the actual
00:12:09
Speaker
angle that should show us something. Yeah, that's so maybe give him that. But yeah, you're right. It shouldn't take that long. I don't know. I don't know why it would take that long. Maybe maybe VR was reviewing it and making sure because it's a huge call in the game. Maybe they just were reviewing and reviewing and just he was letting letting Center Ref was letting them do that. So he would just have a very, you know, verification on the screen kind of thing. But
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's harsh. I would love to, I would love to get clarification on the ruling too. Cause you know, when you, when they say a defender goes through a player to get the ball, like what's the timeframe for that? Cause that ball is clearly gone. Yeah, really gone. I think it's a clean tackle and I would hate to see a world where that starts to be called a foul because it
00:12:56
Speaker
It's like, does he get him? Sure. He gets him, but he gets the ball. It's not like he had to go through the man to get the ball. He gets the ball. There's a beat and then his trailing leg, which he's even trying to keep out of the way. It's not like he came in with the scissor and hit him. It's like his trailing leg, which is his knee, essentially. There's many arguments to say that he did not go through the player to get the ball. He went next to the player to get the ball. I mean, I think that's right. And I think
00:13:24
Speaker
I haven't heard much criticism of the way that the call ended up going down aside from, you know, understandable booze that people in the stadium thought they were going to get a penalty on the last play of the game to potentially win it so I can understand the situation but I don't think anyone that was watching it on TV, come away thinking like this was not a good call.
00:13:45
Speaker
that justice was not ultimately served. Where do you come down on how Kim played the whole thing? Because the more I watched it, at first I was like, oh, he kind of got juked, allowing the shot to happen in the first place.
00:14:00
Speaker
but then I watch it again and he actually is playing, he's taking away the near post, which is basically giving Fry the opportunity to make that save. Like if he doesn't take away the near post, all of a sudden Fry has to play it kind of both ways maybe, and Fry is better equipped to try to save it where he did save it. Yeah, I think if you take no account that it was a counter-attack and he's coming from
00:14:27
Speaker
I'm guessing he's coming from the other side of the field, right? Right. So he's coming across to cut off that angle. And yet, in my mind, you're going to trust that someone's behind you or that your goal is behind you. You're going to cut off that first shot. Yeah, he certainly gets juked, but he recognizes it right away and just basically just makes a B-line over to in bomb.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he forces the attacker onto his left foot, which he gets a clean shot off, but he at least is giving his goalkeeper the chance to make that save. And then I'm amazed. I watched it 10 times. I'm still amazed that Kim is so alertly. He just turns and goes to the far post.
00:15:11
Speaker
Like he just, he sees in bomb there. He, he immediately identifies that as a dangerous potential rebound. Uh, and he just goes straight there. And it's, I mean, it's, it's a really fantastic play. Um, I don't know that Kim had the best game from minute one to minute, you know, 95 or whatever, but that play alone.
00:15:34
Speaker
I think you got to give him a ton of credit for just to get back into position to even make the defensive play. Oh, frankly. Oh, certainly. Yeah. Even just the first defensive play he made, even, you know, even if he ultimately gets beat, I mean, he still slowed that play down enough to allow some other people to recover as well. Yeah. And like you were saying, he gave he gave Fry, you know, be able to position himself to make the best far post save he could.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah. Did anything else stand out from you in that game as far as, well, I'll put this out there. If there was one legitimate criticism of the sounders is that they had a lot of, I think they had seven or eight corners. They had another maybe half dozen dangerous free kicks. They didn't create, I didn't feel enough danger from those set pieces, especially when you're
00:16:25
Speaker
going against a bunkered team like that, you got to force more saves from those situations. I don't know that there was a single corner that was dangerous. Yeah, I would. I think one of the notes for me was, Lodera probably had one of his lower rated games in my mind as far as creation and crosses. His crosses weren't great. His corner kicks weren't that great this game, where they have been for the last couple of games. Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
The one thing I did appreciate was that they still tried attacking down the wings. They start doing that inverted pass. Yeah, that I love that. That little overlap thing that is that kind of leads the fullback inside like that is just a pretty little play and it did put Smith and Lierdom into some dangerous positions a couple times. Yeah, they put in dangerous balls. Nothing obviously came from it, but I thought that I'm glad that they
00:17:24
Speaker
were looking for that even when like everything else wasn't clicking the way they probably wanted it to. Yeah. I mean, they were still trying. I mean, they were certainly trying to draw those defenders out with that play too. And they were close a couple of times and you know, if one of those goes in, it's game right there.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, I thought defensively they did a good job containing Montero. Montero is probably their most dangerous player. He didn't have any dangerous looks. It's funny, Vancouver ended up
00:17:59
Speaker
quote unquote, winning the XG battle. It was something like 1.18 to 1.08 for the Sounders. But I think almost all of Vancouver's XG value came in those last two chances.
00:18:15
Speaker
Like to the, like, cause I know for sure that the, that our Diaz's shot was like 0.67.
Challenges in Set Pieces for Sounders
00:18:22
Speaker
And I would guess that, uh, that emblem shot was probably like 0.4. So right there, you're looking at virtually like other than those two chances, they had nothing. There was that one other kind of flick ball that they had that, um, Friday made a save on that may have been kind of a pass. Um, I think that ended up getting logged as a shot though.
00:18:41
Speaker
How much how much of our XG would have been on Gustav's rocket Not much Really? Yeah, cuz there's shots from outside the box. Just don't get high XG But that was a great that wasn't man. He laced that thing dude that goalie I was saying I was on Twitter. I was saying he's brave just to punch it out with this that venom it was going with it
00:19:05
Speaker
I know. And it looked like it was knuckling a little bit because it looked like he had to kind of reach back across his body after he made his initial leap. But yeah, I liked seeing that. I liked that they have that. They keep using that kind of in their arsenal as far as a thing that they are looking to do. But at the same time,
00:19:27
Speaker
I thought Schmetzer came down on them a little bit saying like you know we need to be a little bit more patient in in spots and I think that that's that's true I suppose you can always make that argument but at the same time I was pleased with how rarely they looked to be forcing shots like it was and maybe that maybe to their detriment but I don't I did not get the sense that they were
00:19:55
Speaker
uh, you know, just firing shots from deep that they were just, they were kind of like putting in those frustrated looping crosses that you so often see when a team is bunkered in. Uh, you know, I think some credit does need to go to Vancouver for not just, not just bunkering, but defending well against a team who I think had an idea of how they wanted to break that bunker.
00:20:22
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I think so. And to be fair, I think the style we've played the last couple of years, we don't, we don't set up for a lot of shots from the top of the box or, you know, that area. So it makes it, I think it makes it maybe probably a little easier for bunkering teams to defend that. Right. Yeah. Um, any, did you, was there anything else that you came away? I don't know. Are you, would you say that this tie, cause I know that the,
00:20:49
Speaker
There's a narrative that, well, now teams know how to beat the Sounders, even though they didn't lose this game. They know how to keep the Sounders off the scoreboard. And I, my argument to that is like, it's no, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that. It's not a formula. Right. Like bunkering is like, sure. Any team can go into a game and bunker. And if you do it really well, you're probably not going to give up goals.
00:21:13
Speaker
I don't know that that's really like a strategy that a team can employ. Like I think if anything, the sounders showed a lot of, you know, like I, it was funny. Doyle, Matt Doyle, who I think we're going to end up talking about a lot probably on the show, we always do, but he, he was, he was, he made it sound like the sounders were giving up all these counter attacking chances. They really only had that one at the end of the game, which look, they put on.
00:21:38
Speaker
You know, they put up Bawana for, yeah, they went more, more offensive. Right. So yeah, they were, they were in the 93rd minute, they were prone to give up a, a counter sure. And they knew that. Yeah. I mean, it's not like they were blind to that fact. Right.
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I just don't have any huge concerns from that game. Now, if they go a few more games and it suddenly looks like they've been neutralized, we can maybe revisit how concerned we are. But I'm not freaking out over that one. If anything, I thought it showed some maturity to basically take the point.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think so overall, uh, other than maybe, I mean, you could say, you could probably say that Ladera was getting, he was showing a lot of more frustration than normal, but that's just him being a competitor kind of thing. Yeah. But, uh, I mean, yeah, they didn't force a lot of shots. They obviously threw a lot more crosses in because I mean, that's what you kind of have to do. Yeah. But.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, they look they didn't look like they were panicking or anything that are more super frustrated about it. Yeah, I would agree. You know, it's funny, you look back at to the last time they didn't win was those two games against the Union and the galaxy. And if memory serves really just had an ankle injury.
00:23:03
Speaker
in the union game which forced him out, actually forced him out of the game early. He ended up playing against the galaxy but didn't have a very good game. I don't think I'm worried about Rui. If anything that tells me he's able to recover quickly and he'll probably play again on Saturday against RSL but it does
00:23:25
Speaker
I'd like to think that we're not like, like, so I guess I talked about this on Twitter, you, you kind of made fun of me, but the
00:23:35
Speaker
the like it would have been very like they lost that game against the union in somewhat similar granted it was a goalie a mistake by fry but it was like this totally against the run of play breakaway that they scored on and it would have just been very harsh to have both of these winning streaks end that way where they give up this or against the run of play where they had a zero zero tie basically locked up
00:24:01
Speaker
But maybe this is the, maybe this is, they changed the narrative here. They go on and they, they, they, cause they, they've got a lot more winnable games here before they hit or a couple more winnable games here before they hit like really the meat of their schedule where they have to play at LAFC and then they host or they host Toronto FC and then they play at LAFC, right? That's the, that's the order that goes in. I believe so. Yeah. So two more games here that if they should win,
00:24:29
Speaker
they get those in the pocket I think then they can look at those those big games as as big games that they can get up for and hopefully you know this this continues to go well um any did you want to close it did you I've asked you this a couple times I haven't let you answer was there anything you wanted to add to the I missed uh no I just I think like you were saying I think they stayed the course for the most part and it was still
00:24:55
Speaker
in little spurts is still, is still impressed by, you know, what they were trying to do, the speed down the wings kind of thing. Um, yeah, I think, I think that just goal goes in that, that game changes on a dime easily. Yeah. Well, I, I'll end by saying, I agree with you there and we're going to come back. We're going to take your questions. You're listening to NOS Adiades.
00:25:22
Speaker
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00:25:42
Speaker
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00:26:02
Speaker
Welcome back to NOS Arietes. We have a bunch of questions that you guys sent in today. Before we get to that I did want to go over a little bit of personal, I guess we can call it personal business.
00:26:15
Speaker
I want to say thank you to Dave Clark for his time at Sender at Heart. As you may have heard, he stepped down as the site manager today. He's taking a job with the Tacoma Defiance and rain FC. He's going to be a content producer for them. This is really a culmination, I think, of something he's been working toward for a very long time. I couldn't be happier for him.
00:26:42
Speaker
But the flip side to that is I'm now the site manager at Soundart Heart. It won't be a big difference. I have been doing some of those duties for several years now. Dave and I have really, he started Soundart Heart, let me be very clear about that, but I came on board 2010. I'd like to think that I was a pretty big part of growing the site into what it is now.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I'm really excited about doing some cool things. Most of that I think you'll notice over time.
Leadership Change at Sounder at Heart
00:27:15
Speaker
In the short term, I don't think much is going to change. No sardietes is still no sardietes.
00:27:24
Speaker
you're gonna see maybe a few more voices joining Sounder at Heart, but it's mainly the same crew. Maybe we can lean on Likit and Aaron to do a little bit more over there, but we'll see. And yeah, just wanted to kind of put that out there and Likit, I'll let you go ahead and start asking questions.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, sure. First one, I'm guessing this is referring to the tie, the recent tie against Vancouver. Steve Edholm asks, is it time to panic?
00:27:57
Speaker
I know, right? It's funny. The Sounders, I looked this up yesterday, they're 19-4 in their last 27 games. That would be a pace. That's 27 games. That's closing on 80% of a season. They're playing at a 77.2.
00:28:18
Speaker
pace. Their goal scoring is at about 70, you know, about two goals a game, a little over two goals a game during that time. So I'll look at that sample size, and I will take a step back and say, I am not panicking right now. That's fair.
00:28:39
Speaker
Uh, gingerheadman13 asks, how do we play against other teams who adopt Vancouver strategy of two lines of defense parking the bus? I figured other teams will adopt the strategy to give them a fighting chance against our elusive attack.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah, we kind of talked about this a little bit in the first segment, but it's very, very simplistic to say, but I think you just got to get that first goal. You get that first goal and all of a sudden everything opens up because teams can't just sit there and defend. And if you can do that, I think the Sounders are going to win more games than they're not in that type of situation.
00:29:22
Speaker
I'm not, you know, I, I don't know. I don't, I don't know that bunkering is like a system that you can coach against too much. Um, every time you get shut out, I suppose there's always this concern. Um, but yeah, I, I, I don't know. I don't mind. I, I, I think they'll be able to break that down more times than not. I think teams that have more confidence Vancouver won't bunker as tightly.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah. As they will, they'll have more confidence to want to go forward and give more space. Vancouver is just a mess. And the easiest thing to do when your team is new and you're trying to put something together is just have people defend. So yeah, I mean, they just need to score. That's all.
00:30:16
Speaker
I'm butchering that name. No, I think that's exactly you pronounce it. Okay. Let's go with that. Why did the sounder struggle so much against the debunker? How can they identify and penetrate the bunker earlier in the game to force the other team to come out and play more aggressively? I think we already said, you know, yeah, I don't it's, I mean, it's a tough, it's tough, you know, I don't know what you do against a team that's bunkering like that. It's just.
00:30:42
Speaker
There's only so much you can do, there really is. You're right though, you gotta try to get that goal early. I think they came out with the right attitude in the second half especially. You look at how many chances or how many half chances they created in the first like five, 10 minutes of the second half and you can see that they were, their mentality I think was right. It's just, you just gotta execute a little bit better.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, the only other thing you maybe can try is put a body like a will brewing up top and hit long balls up there. But that also changes your entire game plan where you're putting more risk at those long balls just being knocked back. Or, you know, you're not getting to them. So you're losing more time. I'd rather have higher, higher creation chances than just long ball throwing up there. Right. Right.
00:31:35
Speaker
Tom Glantz asks, is there a limit to the benefits of putting out the same starting lineup each game if everyone stays healthy and productive?
Sounders' Consistent Lineup Discussion
00:31:43
Speaker
Is the USL start here or there enough for players like Torres and Nuhu? What a good problem to have. It is a good problem to have. And I think it would be disingenuous to second guess the lineup choice in the fourth game of the season at this point. They were coming off right. I suppose you could argue that
00:32:04
Speaker
Some of these guys were coming up like let's take Lidero for instance he was playing he had played 150 minutes over the last week, maybe it would have made sense to give him a rest.
00:32:17
Speaker
I don't know what you, I guess maybe you put Roll Dawn in that spot, but Roll Dawn was also coming off some significant minutes. So who, like, is there a, there's not a like for like, that is the challenge, right? You don't have a like for like replacement for Ledero. And so there's always going to be a, there's a cost to, to giving him rest.
00:32:36
Speaker
But I suppose in hindsight, maybe you could argue if you had played Dellum alongside Svensson and moved Roldan into the 10, maybe that gives you a little bit more bite in that attack. Because Roldan might be a little bit more equipped maybe to... I don't know that that's true, but I suppose maybe you could make that argument. But I think four games in,
00:32:59
Speaker
You can't get too worried about, like I think that's a blessing to be able to use the same lineup, especially a lineup that played as good as the sounders had.
00:33:08
Speaker
If they use the same lineup after seven weeks, after this three-game week coming up here, maybe that's a little bit more of a concern, because I think that shows some lack of faith in the reserves that they have. Will Bruin, to me, probably deserves a start one of those games next week. You probably want to get
00:33:31
Speaker
I don't know. I'm thinking about it. Who among those players, like I think Torres probably gets a start. Do we think New Who or Bwana are going to start any of those games if everyone's healthy? I think for sure. Torres, I think we talked about yesterday about how midweek game maybe you see Chad Marshall sitting, getting a rest. Right. So spot start there. I mean,
00:33:53
Speaker
I, I would argue, not argue, but I would say if there wasn't this two week international, if we hadn't been coming off this two week international break, I think you may have seen more changes in the lineup just to get that kind of rest going. But since, since they were offered two weeks, I feel like the coaching staff was like, you know, we need to have that.
00:34:14
Speaker
that carry over from where we left off kind of thing. So we don't have something new right out of the gate kind of thing. Right. And then as far as the the USL, I do think that this is
00:34:27
Speaker
It's enough to keep them sharp. I was encouraged, I think, by Will Bruins going 90 minutes. Torres, I thought, looked pretty good in his 90-minute performance. Now, granted, this is against the Second Memorial Republic. They won two to one. But they did kind of boss the game for the middle third at the very least. They had long strings of possession.
00:34:52
Speaker
They, they look to be the better team. You know, Bruin had a goal and an assist. You know, I don't know that his, his assist was a good exist. I don't know that that goal is one that he's going to score too many times at the MLS level, but also, man, did you see the penalty that the centers had called against them yesterday? No, I missed it. So Nick Hines went to clear a ball. His arm is raised when he's going to clear it. Cause he's like jumping for it. He kicks it into his, his hand. Oh geez. And.
00:35:18
Speaker
It talk about like, this is the, this is the, you know, similar situation to what we're talking about in Vancouver. With the exception being that he's not really gaining an advantage by hitting the ball with his hand. He's just, it's clearly an accidental thing. I, you know, it's 90, it was like in the 90th, maybe ninth minute or something like that. The sounders were up two, zero. So it ended up being kind of inconsequential, but still that talk about a harsh penalty. Um,
00:35:44
Speaker
That was rough, but I was, you know, I wouldn't say that I was, the sounders didn't dominate that game the way that I maybe, or the Defiance didn't dominate the game the way that I would have probably preferred.
00:35:56
Speaker
going against a U.S.L. team. But at the same time, it's a similar lineup to what you might see in an Open Cup game. And the Republic are the kind of opponent that they might face in an Open Cup game. It probably goes a similar way. But yeah, I mean, I think that getting New Who... I'll say this also. I was impressed by Dellum. I was impressed by... I wouldn't say I was impressed, but I was happy with the performance of Bruin. I was happy with the performance of Torres. I think...
00:36:26
Speaker
We saw moments from Wingo, but he's still, I think we're also seeing why he's at, why he's not like a first team player right now. Similarly with Saad Abdul Salam. I think we're seeing why he's not a first team player. Jonathan Campbell, same thing. You go down the list there. The big one I was a little surprised by was Newhoo. He didn't look bad, but you can really, you could really see your reminded
00:36:51
Speaker
The difference between him and Smith, at least going forward in their quality, like the number of crosses that. That knew who put in that were really effective crosses were very few. He, you know, he doesn't take up that space. He, his runs aren't quite as, as smart and clever as, as Smith's kind of are. Um, I, at the beginning of the season thought knew who might be worthy of starting over Smith. I ha I would have a hard time making that argument right now.
00:37:22
Speaker
I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how new who gets used next week though. Like if he gets, like, I would think he'll get a start. Maybe he'll get that midweek start, but I don't think that, that, uh, Schmetzer is going to go like full rotation in that midweek game. I don't think so either. So I mean, like, I think we'll see Dellum. I think we'll see Bruin. I think we'll see Torres.
00:37:49
Speaker
Beyond that, you know, maybe we see ship if he's through concussion protocol, but I don't know. I don't like, I don't expect a huge, huge rotation there at all. All right. TRSPHD asks based our subbing pattern. Does the team really believe in our attacking depth?
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's a fair question. I think Schmetzer sees the drop off from Rui Diaz to Bruin as a significant drop off. And I was watching the game yesterday.
00:38:25
Speaker
With this in mind like thinking, Who do you take off and live I was thinking that too like, I think you still like Rodriguez you and I think in a game like that none of no one was playing badly enough that you think like well I just got to get them off the field and try something else here because they were knocking on the door right.
00:38:45
Speaker
I mean, I think that there's a clear, I think what it tells us is that there's a clear delineation. The sounders, I think, see themselves as having 11 starters. I think they see themselves as having three or four guys who are capable of being rotational starters. And then they have a whole bunch of other guys who are really more breaking case of emergency type of
00:39:08
Speaker
of players. And I don't know if that's so much a knock on those guys who are rotational or below as much as it is a testament to how highly they think of their starters. Yeah, agreed. Okay, moving on.
Upcoming Matches Against Toronto and LAFC
00:39:26
Speaker
El Capitan blog asks, What's the bigger game this month, Toronto at home or LAFC away? What's the next big rival for Seattle?
00:39:35
Speaker
I think Toronto at home, just because it's a home game, like you gotta lock up the three points at home. I think you can, if you go to LA and you lose a close game, I don't think that changes much of your mental equation as to where you stand.
00:39:50
Speaker
in the league hierarchy. But if Toronto's coming to century, Toronto is coming to century link. I think you got to look at that as a game you have to that's the game where you I think you put most of your energy it will be I'm very, very curious to see what happens in LA though because
00:40:07
Speaker
They've looked amazing in this early going. They, of course, just absolutely dismantled San Jose Five Zero at San Jose, and they've looked really good at home, too. That's a game I would love to go to. I am fascinated by that whole the whole thing they have going on in L.A. right now.
00:40:28
Speaker
Okay, Emmett O'Connell asks, did we infect the timbers slash Atlanta with post-MLS cup You Suck disease?
Sounders' Consistent Performance Over the Seasons
00:40:37
Speaker
Is that an argument for vaccination? Yeah, I mean, it is. I'll say this. I don't know what's going on with well, aside from playing all these games on the road.
00:40:47
Speaker
which is clearly problematic, but like, let's call it what it is. Portland has zero point or as one point from four road games. The Sounders have four points from two road games. So I don't think it's all, it's not just that they're playing on the road. They're playing poorly and they're playing, you know, they, they, this game at LA was maybe their best performance and they lost two to one. Like maybe they can build off that. But I do think Atlanta,
00:41:13
Speaker
It speaks, I think what's going on with Atlanta, and I would hope that Sounders fans are seeing this, is it should make you appreciate what the Sounders have accomplished over the last 10 years. And that they've managed to avoid, like I guess you could argue that they've had starts that were just as bad, and you can argue that
00:41:32
Speaker
that the things that are ailing Atlanta are similar to the things that have ailed the sounders, but Atlanta is pretty healthy. There is some fixture congestion here, but sporting Kansas City had the same fixture congestion. Maybe even more fixed. I guess they have had more fixture congestion than Atlanta did. So I don't think that's the only explanation.
00:41:56
Speaker
Atlanta, but going through a new coach is not easy. Losing big players is not easy. The Sounders have gone through both of those things. But I think that, you know, it'll be interesting to see where Atlanta ends up. And I don't want to, I feel like we've talked about this on the show before. But Atlanta is finding out what it's like
00:42:21
Speaker
to live life in MLS where you don't just have an automatic succession plan. And I don't think that all their success early on was completely, it certainly wasn't just luck. They identified some very talented players. They deserve credit for bringing in Tata. But I don't know that Tata built as much of a foundation as maybe they assumed he did because
00:42:47
Speaker
Rather than building on that foundation, they're kind of having to start over. And I don't know why they felt like they needed to start over, because it doesn't seem like they needed to.
00:43:03
Speaker
It's definitely interesting. And I think if anything, it should help Sounders fans with the perspective of coming off of a long season like that. And how special it is that they made the playoffs the first 10 seasons. Yeah. The one thing I'll say is that I've found it a little odd, like you're saying, that they chose to reboot instead of
00:43:27
Speaker
going with what riding the wave as like, as in like Seattle has done in the past couple of times that they've, you know, gone far. They've just rode that, that momentum into another season, add to pieces and try to keep going. Like Atlanta just was like, Oh, well, we're just going to start over after, you know, winning whatever. It's weird. Very weird. It is weird. And I don't, I would love to have some more insight into the thinking.
00:43:56
Speaker
this last off season, like why they felt like they needed to go in such a dramatically different direction. We'll just wait for your article about maybe soccer won't work in Atlanta. Right, exactly. Let's see.
00:44:15
Speaker
I think we already talked to this one. I'm just going to probably skip it. I'll ask it anyways. Maybe have some more if you want to talk about it. Jacob Jarecki asks, did you see the Defiance game last night? And do you think that's what an open cup roster will look like?
00:44:28
Speaker
I did see the game last night. I was more distracted by the game than I should have been while I was getting my kids ready for bed. But I was very curious to see how the first team looked playing in the game. I'll say that it was interesting that Danny Leyva was the only, I guess it makes sense, but it was interesting that Leyva was the only Tacoma Defiance player to get
00:44:52
Speaker
a start in that game. And yeah, I do think that's probably what we're looking at for. Honestly, that might be a stronger lineup. I was thought about this last night. That might be a stronger lineup that we would get in some of those early stage Open Cup games. It'll be interesting to see. I guess it depends on how healthy the Sounders are once the Open Cup comes around. But if those guys, if they are fully healthy,
00:45:20
Speaker
Maybe that's what the lineup looks like. But if some of those guys are having to play up with the first team, I think we might actually see us not as first team have you have a lineup in the open cup. We'll see. Yeah. Agreed. And let's see. Final question. This is more of a pat on the back than anything, but E Kazoyan asks, are y'all doing a scarf with a new logo? That is fantastic. To the designer, well done.
00:45:48
Speaker
So that's for you, Likit. Good job. I guess we could, I hadn't really, it's funny, I hadn't really considered turning that into a scarf, but that would, it would make a decent scarf, wouldn't it? Yeah, might have to like do a poll and see if anyone's interested. Yeah, we've, we've not, as you may have noticed, we haven't really done a proper scarf since
00:46:10
Speaker
God, I don't think we've done a scarf since our, what I guess was our only, we only did the, the only scarf we did was the one with the face mask, right?
00:46:19
Speaker
So we've done three ascot since then, and we kind of got into this ascot kick. But maybe we do do a scarf. I don't know. The problem with scarves is that distributing them is a pain in the butt. Logistics is a nightmare. Logistics is an nightmare. Although our friend, MLS Watercolorist, has a proper storefront, and she seems to have figured out a way to make the distribution of these a little less painful.
00:46:49
Speaker
bug her about maybe trying to piggyback on her platform. Yeah, she's also much smarter than us. So she's exceptionally smart and much smarter than we are when it comes to these sorts of things. But what I don't want to do is like, it's not about the money, frankly, I suspect that we, we've never lost money on any of these things. We've made a few hundred bucks, usually, whether for us or for charity. And
00:47:17
Speaker
And so it's not it's not that it's just that distributing scarves putting them in the mail handing them out is a legitimate pain in the butt.
00:47:28
Speaker
And it's not a lot of fun. And I don't, I'm not dying to do that again. But if people really want it, I mean, I suppose we can figure, we'll try to figure something out. Yeah. And if you're looking for that new logo on something, northsadias.threadless.com. Right. You can get it on a shirt, on sweaters. I bought myself a zip up hoodie that is super, super comfortable and it looks really cool. And if you want to buy said thing,
00:47:56
Speaker
They are currently available and we don't actually have to mail them to you, which is why we like using threadless. So yeah.
00:48:07
Speaker
That's that, that's our show, I guess. So thanks, Lickit, for filling in for Aaron. Hopefully we will, I'm gonna be out of town next week, but I assume we will resume on our normal every other week schedule after that. And thanks to our sponsor, Full Pool Wines. We're still trying to figure out what we wanna do as far as that goes going forward, but we will figure something out. And thanks again to Full Pool for,
00:48:36
Speaker
hanging in there and doing all this for us. But otherwise, this is no saudietes. Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:49:02
Speaker
Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. We love you. Let's win another one!