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Leslie Chats with Philippe Chaffee on the Global Nuclear Energy Revival, Supply Chains and Policy Drivers
58 Plays21 days ago
In this episode of Energy Vista, Leslie Palti-Guzman speaks with Phil Chaffee, editor of Nuclear Intelligence Weekly at Energy Intelligence, about the global nuclear energy revival, its geopolitical supply chain challenges, and policy drivers shaping the industry. Is nuclear energy finally making a comeback, or are we still in a phase of big plans with little execution? How are AI-driven energy demand, climate policies, and energy security concerns shaping this revival? What role does gas play as a bridge fuel, and could nuclear truly compete in the long term? They also dive into the U.S. push for nuclear enriched fuel independence-- notably from Russia-- Europe’s shifting stance—is Germany rethinking its nuclear exit?—and China’s aggressive reactor expansion. Plus, Phil shares insights from nearly two decades of reporting on nuclear energy. Tune in for a deep dive into one of the most debated energy sources of the future.
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Transcript
Introduction to Energy Vista Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
We are March 3rd, 2025, and it's 1.42 p.m. in New York, and time for another Energy Vista podcast. I'm your host, Leslie Palti Guzman.
00:00:20
Speaker
Today, I'm joined with Phil Chafi, the editor of Nuclear Intelligence Weekly at Energy Intelligence, who has been reporting on everything related to nuclear energy since 2006.
Revival of Nuclear Energy
00:00:33
Speaker
We're going to discuss the revival of nuclear energy in the US and ah around the world and the geopolitics of the supply chain, among other things.
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi, Phil. Hi, Leslie. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining me on the Energy Vista podcast. And actually, brings me back old memories because you were my first neighbor in a work office environment, my first cubicle neighbor. Yeah.
00:01:00
Speaker
Indeed, when we were little babies reporting on the energy world. Exactly. um And I remember, so I joined, I think you joined one year before me in 2006. I joined in 2007.
00:01:14
Speaker
But around that time, maybe one year or two years later, we were already discussing nuclear revival. You were writing about it, 2008, 2010, yeah, 2009.
00:01:25
Speaker
And then the great Fukushima disaster happened. Indeed. Indeed. and Also, I think there was the Shell gas revolution that was starting to impact natural gas prices, making it natural gas you know much more competitive.
00:01:39
Speaker
um So all this was happening. But now, fast forward almost like more than 15 years later, we're talking again about nuclear renaissance.
00:01:51
Speaker
and So can you explain us this time around, like what are the main drivers? um Everybody's talking a lot about AI, the data centers, um the tech companies driving basically this renaissance. But from your point of view, what what is going to be different this time around?
00:02:08
Speaker
I mean, we'll see if it's different. i don't I think outside of China and a couple other places where they are building really building reactors fast, Right now, we're still a provisional re new renaissance where ah there's a lot of plans almost everywhere in the world to build a lot of nuclear, but um there's still not a lot of concrete being poured yet.
Gas vs Nuclear Competition
00:02:33
Speaker
So the the sort of the pieces are lining up.
00:02:36
Speaker
It's not fully there. As to the drivers, some of them are very similar to the drivers 20 years ago. um It's climate change and climate change.
00:02:47
Speaker
just this this idea that you need ah low carbon or zero carbon power. um The slight difference I would say is, I mean, you do have, I wouldn't say it's primarily AI companies and and those as drivers, they have signed some very noticeable and notable deals um such as last September, the Microsoft deal to turn back on Constellations Plant Three Mile Island, one of the units there to turn that on after that was shuttered several years ago.
00:03:20
Speaker
um And that plus some other big big news has sort of got got a lot of coverage. um I think the bigger driver is policy um across Europe, across a lot of US states, the US government and Canada.
00:03:37
Speaker
um And that is A, again, climate change and people thinking about deploying clean power, um particularly, I think, in Europe, ah but also this idea that as grids have become more renewables heavy, um having firm clean, having base load power there
US Bipartisan Support for Nuclear
00:04:03
Speaker
is key. And in the in the short term, as I'm sure you're aware, short to midterm,
00:04:08
Speaker
um ah gas is the big solution there. Right. So do you see like a competition in the medium longer term between gas and nuclear? Because right now, gas seems to be the readily commercial available added supply needed for data center.
00:04:25
Speaker
and The time that it will take to build nuclear reactors, new ones, small ones, big ones, what is it? Like 10 years? at a minimum, generally. You're you're generally talking...
00:04:37
Speaker
mean, there are there are a lot of small companies and um big companies claiming that you can do it in much faster time periods. That has not been proved. um So yeah, you're talking about a very different period of time.
00:04:51
Speaker
And yeah, probably in the mid 2030s and 2040, it is much more competition where you it is much more a competition um air where if renewables really do get deployed at scale, particularly and in North America and Europe, what they will ultimately be deple displacing is gas.
00:05:12
Speaker
In Asia, probably less competition just because the big thing that everyone's focused on displacing there is coal and you can displace it with either. Okay. So you mentioned yeah you mentioned policy. Would you say that in the US, it's a bipartisan support for nuclear?
00:05:29
Speaker
The Secretary Chris Wright seems pretty supportive of the nuclear industry. What is this current administration going to do to further encourage growth of the nuclear power plants to the US?
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, it is. I mean, it's bipartisan in the US s and sort of everywhere. i mean, one of the nuclear's i superpowers in terms of policy surviving policy shifts at this point is the generally the left, there are some key exceptions here, um but generally the left has basically come on board to nuclear as a climate solution.
00:06:05
Speaker
um So it can be viewed as like a low carbon solution. And that's certainly how the Biden administration viewed it in the U S um on the other side,
00:06:17
Speaker
A lot of the the governments that are most excited about nuclear are fairly right-wing. and And Europe, maybe they talk about low carbon, but they have much more talk about energy security and having um and having i baseload power that doesn't need any imports. I mean, we can get to the nuclear fuel, but it's ah much more secure and much more price secure in terms of the fuel inputs than other things. There's one final layer on a nuclear, which is ah there's this status thing with nuclear, both just having the technology because it is very advanced, but also in and then some countries, there are these links, particularly once you're building out domestic nuclear fuel cycle, that then has weapons links potentially.
00:07:08
Speaker
But I mean, that is a different thing, but these are three big drivers that basically allow nuclear to survive transitions as we've seen in the US.
Sustaining Nuclear Industry Growth
00:07:17
Speaker
In terms of what will happen in the US, it's interesting because the industry, you know the the signals that Trump and right and everyone else give are very positive in the Trump administration to nuclear.
00:07:30
Speaker
At the same time, they are talking about dismantling a lot of the big regulatory subsidies and structures that the Biden administration up. So the IRA and other things had a lot of money, investment tax credits, production tax credits, huge amounts of funding on R&D, on sort of deploying first-of-a-kind reactors.
00:07:54
Speaker
And all of that, there's a bit of a question mark there. I mean, the Trump administration and the Republican Congress are very clearly going to dismantle a lot of it.
00:08:05
Speaker
um But will there still be money left? Presumably, they're going to carve out. i mean, sort of the industry is banking on the idea that they are going to carve out the subsidies and potentially leave funding funding in the DOE Loan Programs Office, um which has hundreds of billions of funding and and ah for nuclear. But it's still to be proven that that's going to happen.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's an industry where I don't think it can really succeed without a good private public partnership. Like if it's not subsidies or some kind of grants for research. I mean, you see it in countries around the world.
00:08:40
Speaker
I mean, there are not that many, um you know, countries that have good strategy for nuclear, but the ones that have often it's state owned companies, you know, Rosatom for Russia.
00:08:52
Speaker
France is trying now to come back a little bit with like the spin-off of Areva or Runco? um No, so France is it's led by edf yeah EDF is the one that will, the the big utility in France that already has... is also fully state-owned.
00:09:09
Speaker
Which is fully state-owned. And they want to deploy more. Yes, you're fully right. Basically almost everywhere. I think basically every everywhere. Oh, no. Okay. There are exceptions here.
00:09:20
Speaker
Almost everywhere the nuclear has been built. It has been built by state-owned companies in the places where it hasn't. Japan or back in the 70s, a lot of the American ah utilities, they are they often have um some sort of monopoly or regulated aspect where they're able to um take on the costs of the nuclear construction.
00:09:44
Speaker
but but And even without that, they are also responding to other various government incentives. So there's almost no scenario where at least large reactors are even being conceived of and in a fully private context without any government
Secure Nuclear Fuel Supply
00:10:00
Speaker
subsidies. Right.
00:10:01
Speaker
So the U.S. doesn't have any initial national champions, right, like on the nuclear side? in terms yeah Not quite. there is There are a couple. I mean, the the big one is TVA, the Tennessee Valley Authority.
00:10:13
Speaker
which which came out of the the New Deal, the FDR programs in the 1930s. um And that does remain basically, ah it has a very weird status, so but it is basically a state-owned entity um with a particular mission, um but they are the exception to the rule. Generally in the US, you have utilities and the two big kinds, or you have the ones in the regulated markets where they can,
00:10:43
Speaker
get rate pay recovery via utility, say utility boards generally, or the ones in the merchant markets where they much more compete on the ups and downs of power markets.
00:10:56
Speaker
and One of the driver behind, you know, the search for a more secure and resilient supply chain for nuclear fuel and refining, I mean, not refining, enrichments and so on. um Do you see also, know,
00:11:13
Speaker
Do you see it also motivated by nuclear purposes? Because we know there are some kind of bridges, right? Between the civil and the military nuclear programs or for the U.S. Do you think that if the U.S. gets a more secure, resilient supply chain for its civil program, does it also make it more secure for the military program?
00:11:33
Speaker
A bit. So that's an interesting overlap. The the issue for nuclear fuel, Generally, um for basically 90% of the reactors out there, you need enriched uranium in the fuel. The exception here is the heavy water reactors that the Canadians developed, and those are also in India.
00:11:53
Speaker
But for 90% of the reactors, you need enriched uranium. So you can't just dig up the uranium and put it in a reactor. You've got to convert it to gas and then enrich it. And it's that enrichment process that's very sensitive because you would enrich it to under 5% generally for the existing existing nuclear fleet.
00:12:10
Speaker
um But if you just keep on enriching it, keep spinning those centrifuges, it can go up to i mean, near 100%, and that's where you get the very weapons-grade material. So um having domestic or enrichment capability that could potentially go either way um is potentially key.
00:12:30
Speaker
In the US, there has not been domestic enrichment requirement program with domestic IP for basically over a decade.
00:12:44
Speaker
um There is one ah u s enrichment plant, commercial US enrichment plant and so in in New Mexico, but that's owned by Urenco, a European company, ah consortium of German, Dutch, and and the British.
00:12:59
Speaker
And it uses centrifuges that are also developed together with the French. um There are a lot of plans to to to build out and develop new and rich capacities in the US.
00:13:11
Speaker
um There's a huge several billion dollars of money that the DOE has to parcel out to try to encourage this. um And theoretically, some of the indigenous ones, if they go forward commercially, they could ultimately then supply some of the military means.
Geopolitical Impacts on US Nuclear Supply
00:13:31
Speaker
At this point, we're not talking bombs, but the bigger issue in the US is long-term having enough high-end risk uranium for its submarine fleet. So ultimately for military purposes, um we have more than enough material and and basically there's been outside of of the five official weapon states, there has not been, ah i guess there's some question marks here, but there's basically been an informal ban on producing new material for weapons, um meaning high enriched uranium or plutonium.
00:14:04
Speaker
So I don't think many people know that, but I was reading, i think Russia is providing, supplying to the US about 27% of its enriched uranium? ah So it was. was, okay.
00:14:18
Speaker
ah Basically 20%, depending on the year. um It was supplying a lot of enriched material and and and actually less the uranium than the enrichment. And they would basically supply the enriched uranium and take back uranium.
00:14:37
Speaker
they would be supplying the enrichment. Russia has this huge capacity um of these Soviet built enrichment plants um out in Siberia with this just enormous capacities that have rarely been used entirely.
00:14:52
Speaker
i mean, and they've rarely produced at capacity. um Since February, 2022, there has been increasingly um there has been increasingly but step a block away from that this past summer the us congress passed a full ban which fully goes into effect on importing russian low-endished uranium that fully goes into effect in 2028 and right now there's this process of granting waivers to that so some material can come in but it has to be you have to go through a long process and explain why you need the material and it's sort of every every shipment needs to get this waiver um
00:15:33
Speaker
This has radically changed the fuel market because it means that long-term, and if Russian supply is not coming in, that makes a ah bigger case for expanded enrichment production or enrichment capacity in Europe and the US.
00:15:48
Speaker
Obviously, there's huge question marks here. If somehow a Russia-Ukraine peace deal is trying... was going to say, if we're back to a reset between Russia and the or something... Right. And obviously, I mean, i we can...
00:16:00
Speaker
who knows what happens there, but by in a world where where where Washington and Moscow fully want to re-normalize relationships, um that could upend a lot of this effort to try to develop new capacities in the US.
00:16:17
Speaker
There's also Yarenko who I talked about, and also you mentioned before, the Arano State on Nuclear, that sorry, the French State on Nuclear Company called Arano. They also are building up their capacities at a plant in southern France, and then Euranko is building up their capacities at their European plants in the three countries I mentioned.
00:16:34
Speaker
Has Russia ever weaponized its exports of enriched uranium or building facilities of nuclear plants? ah you know ah What do you mean weaponized? I mean, using it for political purposes, geopolitical purposes for its...
00:16:52
Speaker
um i think the big thing they've done is um they are much better because the russian all of the russian uh fuel is all part of one big company ross atom which is state owned they own all of the russian nuclear plants so but they also are the ones who who sell these projects and sell reactor exports globally.
00:17:19
Speaker
um in Turkey, they owed the plant that they're building, the four reactors in Turkey. But beyond that, they they often pair those deals with ah very long-term fuel supply deals.
00:17:32
Speaker
And that is where the sort of, I wouldn't say weaponizing, but um they're the offering, i think, ah and often they also will offer to take back the spent fuel.
00:17:43
Speaker
So it's, um yeah, i it's it's a much more sort of comprehensive offer with potentially buried subsidies. It's hard to, you know, and they can potentially take a loss in one segment of that to guarantee other parts of that.
00:17:58
Speaker
But again, it's hard to exactly know, project by project, how they're doing that. But, um but yeah, they've been very, they have been aggressive. And then prior to to February, 2022, they separately had fuel supply to a lot of Europe, to the U
00:18:18
Speaker
um separate from the reactor supplies. Right. but So like this new, this new strategy since February, 2022 was to become more in less dependent on the Russian products.
00:18:31
Speaker
including enriched uranium. Was it also like a kind of sanctions, economic sanctions, you know, we give you less revenues as a retaliation for what... Absolutely.
Europe's Nuclear Reconsideration Post-Ukraine
00:18:43
Speaker
But yeah before that time, there was no um no fear of Russia basically curtailing those exports.
00:18:54
Speaker
um No. And I think... A couple months ago, the Kremlin did finally come out and say they would also potentially ban exports of enriched uranium to the US.
00:19:09
Speaker
This was much more retaliatory based on the the US s ban. Prior to that, um Ross Adam had always been very clear that they are a solid supplier. I mean, they've made this case in the gas markets too, that they would never cut off um but They did it on the guest side. they did, but yeah. i mean, they there was sort of their that we'll never cut off for political reasons.
00:19:38
Speaker
So like right now the Trump administration is going to try to develop a new strategy to become more resilient in terms of the imports of enriched Iranians coming more from friendly allies. What's going to be the strategy?
00:19:55
Speaker
I don't think they have articulated that. um the Again, because so much is caught up in what is happening in terms of the relationship with moscow and what happens with ukraine um i don't think they have articulated any different strategy that was deployed by the biden administration and what was deployed deployed under the biden's ration was both this right this band that that i've talked about and um these pots of money several billion dollars so um to build out
00:20:29
Speaker
enrichment capacities and uranium conversion capacities, sorry, mainly enrichment capacities in the US. um So I don't think anybody expects the Trump administration to to pull that stuff back.
00:20:44
Speaker
But again, who knows what happens if they do normalize relationship with Russia, presumably they're going to drop this ban, but then you need Congress to do that. so It's unclear, i don't but the Trump administration is still way too young to have articulated any real policies on this particular issue.
00:21:02
Speaker
They have talked about increasing uranium mining and sort of maybe making it a critical mineral. But in terms of actual mining, ah u s uranium has always, i mean, not always, but for the past decades, has been a tiny fraction of the global uranium. And that's not the sort of the big issue. Australia has tons, Canada has tons, Kazakhstan has the most, and that material, um yeah, that's ah there aren't the sort of securities concerns that there are in that regard as as much as there are in terms of uranium conversion and particularly enrichment.
00:21:42
Speaker
Okay. Now turning quickly to Europe, um also after the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, Europe kind of realized, oh, maybe we, especially Germany, we phased out too fast nuclear. Do you think there could be a comeback to nuclear in Germany or it's too late?
00:22:00
Speaker
I actually, few days ago, I saw a big report in the French magazine talking about Fessenheim, which was one of the oldest French nuclear plants. and how it was a political disaster to have closed it too early because it could have been, you know, the lifetime of the plan could have been extended and that it was like a political, you know, play at the end.
00:22:24
Speaker
and But do you think Europe is changing its mind also about nuclear big time and ah realizing that they will need this baseload energy?
China's Nuclear Expansion Plans
00:22:35
Speaker
In a lot of places, yes. I think um the the the most The most dramatic example was Belgium, where in December of 2021, this is now the previous government came in and said, we are going to fully, i mean, Belgium is talking about phasing out their reactors ah since 2003, think.
00:22:59
Speaker
And at the beginning of two thousand at the end 2021, that government, this was not the one previous government, said, we are going to definitely do that by 2025. And then two months later, the invasion happened.
00:23:12
Speaker
And a month later, they fully reversed course. This was a coalition government where the energy minister was actually agreeing. And they then worked towards this deal to extend the two youngest reactors 2035.
00:23:26
Speaker
um Now there's a new government that's even talking about further reactors, um keeping them going, and even building new reactors. So that is like the the most dramatic one.
00:23:37
Speaker
You've seen swings in Sweden. You've seen swings in the Netherlands where suddenly everyone's talking about building new reactors. Germany, I'm a bit skeptical. Mertz, the likely incoming um prime minister. So say again?
00:23:55
Speaker
No, Chancellor. yeah Yeah, our Chancellor. um he He has sort of mooted the idea of turning on one or two of the reactors. They fully shut their reactors. so They actually extended them a couple months after the Ukraine invasion because they were due to shut down immediately. They pushed them back a couple months.
00:24:15
Speaker
They have turned them off. He's mooted the idea of potentially um turning some of those back on And it's possible, but if you sort of look at how the mechanics of what his coalition might be, um there's a high chance that he'll have to go in with the Greens or others.
00:24:34
Speaker
There's a lot of um institutional pushback. I think the utilities that had operated these reactors have have fully written them off at this point. So it would be a sort of ah shift in mindset for them to to extend that or to go back and turn them back on, rehire their workforce.
00:24:52
Speaker
find that expertise again. um and Even in Belgium where NG previously, ah i won't go through all the averary iterations of NG, but they had they were the they are still the operator of the reactors in Belgium. um um and For decades after 2003, they had pushed to extend these reactors. But at a certain point, they did do the same thing and they signed off ah yeah they wrote these all down.
00:25:17
Speaker
um They just shifted how they thought about nuclear and they thought we are now going to think about gas and renewables. Nuclear is not really in our wheelhouse anymore. And therefore to keep those going, they actually negotiated the Belgian government and got up basically a lot of subsidies to keep these two reactors going. So you'd have to have probably the same thing happen in Germany and is a coalition in Germany, even if they somehow agree on maybe we'll turn on one or two reactors.
00:25:46
Speaker
also agree to billions in subsidies to turn them back on? It seems unlikely to me, but who knows? Okay. And China, we haven't talked about China. Anything interesting happening around the... yeah yeah China is where they they really there really is a renaissance and it has
Phil Chafi's Journey at Energy Intelligence
00:26:03
Speaker
been happening. um There was a that basically a pause with a couple exceptions after Fukushima of five or six years.
00:26:12
Speaker
as sort of at the top each lines of the Chinese party, they thought through the safety, they thought through where to site things. um But for the past three or four years, they have been approving, i mean, their goal is to approve up to 10 new reactors a year, um which is up to like 10 gigawatts a year, which is fair amount. And they are not quite going that fast, but they are going very fast.
00:26:37
Speaker
There's dozens of reactors under construction. all over the country. I guess the big shift that happened after Fukushima from them was they had planned to have on inland sites with rivers as cooling water, and that has not happened. It remains just coastal where they're actually building and deploying reactors, but they are still doing that at pace. so we have not really Their motivation is to supply the fuel for DeepSeek and their brothers? or like no replace Would it replace coal in China? What is going to happen? with I mean, it seems like a huge amount of capacity that will come online right in 10 years from now.
00:27:17
Speaker
I mean, there is already a lot of huge... And by the... Probably by the end of the decade, they will have, in absolute terms, the so most number of reactors operating in the world um to overtaking the US.
00:27:33
Speaker
I think they've just overtaken France. um Their motivation, I think, it is... They are almost entirely focused, with a couple exceptions again, on just the grid and on...
00:27:47
Speaker
producing that baseload of power, it's very hard to know looking at China because they basically go, they've been increasing on everything, right? They've been increasing their amount of nuclear, they've been increasing their renewables, increasing their gas production.
00:28:00
Speaker
um And they've been increasing their coal production, right? Their coal their coal plants burning coal. So it's very hard to know for China where, um at what point they start to think,
00:28:12
Speaker
one source is going or start to decide that one source is going to replace another. i think very long term, and they do want to phase out coal, but it's not happening yet. Yeah.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah i think it's a smart strategy. You pur pursue everything you can do. And I mean, you you don't pick and choose one one energy as a winner. You actually endorse all of them and you'll see. Although you probably don't want to build out tons of coal plants for the environment's sake.
00:28:38
Speaker
Right. That's true. Yeah, they ever started building coal plants, right? like They had said that they would stop doing that, but they are still providing money for those.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah. Good. Let's move to your personal trajectory. yeah You've been at Energy Intelligence for almost 20 years. um It means you're very happy, I guess, and you managed to grow. You become an editor. And I think, you know, actually, I know other people that have been staying for a very like long time for the same company. I mean, we tend to think that our generation is less loyal than the previous generation of our parents, but I i think it's more diverse.
00:29:24
Speaker
and that we want to think. So tell me a little bit, um um I mean, your choice about but staying for the same company versus moving to another company to get another title, to get a higher salary or other opportunities.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I guess I sort of fell into I'm not sure if I would call it a super active choice. um I have been at this company for Coming up on two decades, um i you know I have had some some career growth. I started as just the reporting on nuclear fuel, and then I became a deputy editor and an editor. I've also been the London Bureau Chief and now the New York Bureau Chief, and the company has moved me back and forth from ah from London to New York a couple times. will happen again.
00:30:17
Speaker
um In terms of why, I mean, partly it's when you find a nice company and they're nice to you, I don't see a huge problem in sticking.
00:30:28
Speaker
i In terms of, I mean, you know, the energy industry is pretty small. The nuclear industry, the people reporting on it, it's a very, very small, vanishingly small um thing. So to the extent to which I ever wanted to say on that, there's not a lot of other jobs out there.
00:30:47
Speaker
um to to cover the nuclear industry. I guess one of the reasons I've enjoyed it and I do enjoy it is it is so broad. It's global.
00:31:00
Speaker
um I am never just thinking about one region. I'm never just thinking about politics. I'm always thinking about uranium markets or non-proliferation. I'm thinking, you know, we also cover the Iran talks and ah and talking to people in at the IAEA in Vienna about various diplomatic issues um or environmental things. I mean, it's because nuclear can involve all of that stuff and is so global,
00:31:29
Speaker
um I'm rarely writing about the same thing one week to the next. yeah've I've been feeling the same for natural gas, LNG. It's a global market. And you know it's at the intersection of so many disciplines, right? For you, the same. yeah so Engineering, financing, policy, geopolitics.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah, never the same. Exactly. Yeah. yeah And that is very attractive. And it's enough to sort of... um or yeah, or financing. And I've talked to bankers about how you structure, a i mean, I'm sure you've done the same, how you structure huge tens of billion dollar infrastructure projects. um And yeah, so it's, a I love but how varied that can be. i i also love traveling and this job has taken me really all over the world from uranium mines in Kazakhstan and Northern Australia and Namibia to, um
00:32:23
Speaker
nuclear fuel plants and nuclear plants in France and the
Podcast Conclusion
00:32:28
Speaker
UK and elsewhere. So, um, and then obviously all of the various conferences we all go to. So yeah, it's, uh, I, I suppose I could be a more ambitious, like our much in our generation and be popping around through different jobs. But, um,
00:32:43
Speaker
there is... and yeah done something I don't think that's an obligation. i think it's, you know, different style and for different personalities. And, you know, you explained very well why not.
00:32:55
Speaker
like So I think... Yeah.
00:32:59
Speaker
I also like my job because it's something that... um you know, I can finish on a Friday night and not really think about it on the Saturday, which not all jobs are. so Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Now that's terrific. Congrats on your trajectory. Thank you. we like we'll have to see this time around the Renaissance is ah is happening.
00:33:22
Speaker
We'll see. Thank you, Phil. Thank you so much, Leslie. It's been a pleasure. This is the Energy Vista podcast. This is Leslie Pelti Guzman saying good day and good luck.