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22. Make Anxiety Your Superpower with Maria Serbus
13 Plays1 year ago
“Your mind can’t solve all your problems,” try though it may.
Maria Serbus is a coach, consultant, and keynote speaker whose work is deeply informed by her personal journey with anxiety and ADHD.
An Occupational Therapist by trade, and professional encourager by choice, she now helps women free themselves from the cycle of over-thinking and over-doing so they can balance ambition with mindful appreciation of life’s precious moments.
In this episode, you’ll learn how to:
- Make anxiety and ADHD your success superpowers
- Replace overwhelm and self-doubt with unshakeable confidence
- Develop mind/body/joy tools that cultivate resilience
- Combat negative self-talk and reshape your inner dialogue
- Give yourself permission to pivot personally and professionally
For more inspiration, subscribe to Unbound Turnarounds on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
LINKS:
- Connect with Nicole
- Connect with Mallory
- Connect with Maria: https://www.mariaserbus.com/
- FREE Tame Anxiety Guide: https://maria-serbus.myflodesk.com/tameanxiety
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome
Introduction to Unbound Turnarounds
00:00:03
Speaker
to Unbound Turnarounds, a podcast all about the challenges women business owners think about constantly, but rarely voice. We're Nicole and Mallory, entrepreneurs, friends and co-founders of Business Unbound, a community helping women alleviate the headaches, heartaches and backaches. So work actually works for life. This is your safe space for the ups, downs and the turnarounds.
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Unbound Turnarounds. We are here again. As a reminder, we are in season two.
The Link Between Well-being and Entrepreneurship
00:00:39
Speaker
And for season two, we're diving into various aspects of well-being and how that relates to our entrepreneurship. Because if we aren't healthy, how can our businesses be healthy?
Exploring Anxiety in Entrepreneurship
00:00:51
Speaker
They go hand in hand. So today's conversation is actually going to be about anxiety.
00:00:57
Speaker
Nicole, let's just check in. If anybody has ever listened to your interview episodes, they might know that you have some experience with this. So how are you feeling about this being the topic for today's episode? I am crazy excited about it. I am hoping that she gives me all the tools. Yes, something that I haven't gained in these 40 years so far, living in this anxious, anxious body. But I'm really excited about it. I love talking about anxiety, just kind of normalizing it. And I think that's important.
00:01:25
Speaker
I can't think of a better way to celebrate my ninth year in business, which is today. That's right. Happy anniversary, Nicole. Thank you.
Guest Maria Service on Overcoming Self-doubt
00:01:33
Speaker
So today we are really excited to have Maria Service, and she is a coach, consultant, and keynote speaker. Her mission is to help ambitious women overcome, overwhelm self-doubt through mind-body practices that embrace unshakable confidence and create lives that they love.
00:01:50
Speaker
So she actually incorporates science-backed strategies, physiological education, and subconscious mindset tools to empower women to show up with their full potential and rise as female leaders. And who doesn't need more of that? She is also the host of the Unleash Your Potential podcast and lives with her family in Southeast Minnesota. So welcome to the show. We're happy to have you.
00:02:12
Speaker
Yes, thank you guys so much for having me and I'm excited to be here and to chat today as well. Awesome. So to kick us off today, I'm curious what you think the common misconceptions are about anxiety for women. So in particular, what are anxious people prone to believing about this or what do other people think about anxiety?
00:02:31
Speaker
So I myself tended to be a very highly anxious person. So I'm right there with you and you say like, oh yeah, my anxiety is a very, it's a big part of me and it's something that I was aware of. So I feel like some myths or just some things to like air out when it comes to anxiety is I think people either are in the camp that they think their anxiety is like all in their head. So anxiety is all related to the thoughts.
00:02:58
Speaker
or I do know there are some women who identify the anxiousness they can feel it in their bodies but I think some people think it's like an either or thing some women posit like strongly associated with like oh my anxious thoughts other women are like I'm feeling really anxious in my body
00:03:14
Speaker
What I love doing in my practice is like, we need to marry those two, we are a mind body being, and we actually ironically feel more empowered when we tie that my anxiety can either be tied to my anxious thoughts.
00:03:30
Speaker
or it can also be driven by this feeling of anxiousness in my body. And there's actually different tools we can employ for where that anxiety and anxiousness is coming from. So I really like breaking down what are the tools we can use, depending on how women are experiencing their anxiety. That's a great point, Mallory. I know that you felt seen by some of that statement, which part hit home for you.
00:03:57
Speaker
I feel it in my chest, but then when you said we need to marry the two, it was like a little light bulb already. We're like three minutes in. But no, that makes a lot of sense to me, even though I can feel it in my chest and in my body that there is a mind connection there.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yes, it seems so obvious, but it's like I needed you to point it out. See, but I'm the opposite. I'm more of the in the brain person and I'm like, I will look completely the same externally. No one will notice inside. It is just fire and brimstone. It's fine. I'll just think my way out of it because that's definitely worked in the past. It has not worked in the past. So, yes, I'm on the other end of that and I need to be more aware of how it affects my body.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And the other interesting thing about, I think that I love pointing out about anxiety that some people think is, I mean, one, we can think anxiety is a bad thing. We want to resist our anxiety. We want to push it out. I want to ignore it. You know, and I think there is more coming out now because
00:04:57
Speaker
You know, we briefly mentioned like how we want to befriend our anxiety. We want to learn how do I sit with it? The anxiety is really a part of me. It's a piece of me. So it doesn't do any good to try to resist or ignore that part of you. So that's one piece, but also emotions in general. This is actually one of my favorite things to talk about emotions in general, but let's say the emotion is anxiousness.
00:05:19
Speaker
And emotion is really just trying to tell us something. So it's my body literally just trying to signal, hey, there's something going on here that's making us feel anxious, similar to how my stomach tells me I'm hungry three to five times a day. And I don't berate myself every time my stomach says, hey, I'm hungry. And I don't overthink it. I just get curious and I'm like, hmm, what do I want to eat right now? So same thing when we notice that anxious emotion, if I just detach and think, oh, this is my body just trying to send me a signal,
00:05:49
Speaker
What could that mean I need maybe I need a perspective shift right now Maybe I should just need to go ground myself and do a walk in nature But when we shift that perspective like oh my body signaling something what could I do with this? I think it also makes the anxiety feel less scary less like I don't know. It's our biggest critic or whatnot
00:06:10
Speaker
I think that's a great call out and a great reminder to just simply say, oh, I'm anxious right now and then get curious about why. Wonder why that is. Yeah, exactly. Now, specifically in the business sense, what are some common themes or patterns that you've observed among your clients and among women when it comes specifically to anxiety and business together?
Anxiety Triggers for Businesswomen
00:06:31
Speaker
So I started my own business in April of 2021, and I tend to work with a lot of other women entrepreneurs, women business owners. So where I oftentimes see anxiety kick in. So if you think about it, anxiety could either be a thought pattern or like a body signal that kicks up oftentimes when I'm either moving outside my comfort zone,
00:06:53
Speaker
or I can't find the answer. So I think women business owners, we either are oftentimes thinking, how can I grow my business or take it to the next level or follow this dream? And so one anxiousness could kick up because it's just like, I'm nervous about that. I'm scared about that. I've never done that. Also, but anxiousness can kick up when it's like, people are looking to me, the business owner, for an answer. Well, what do you want to do about that?
00:07:20
Speaker
And I think oftentimes when a business owner is like, I don't know, I need to think about her. I need to whatever ponder that it can kick up our anxiousness because we go back to where we feel like, Oh, I should be the expert on this. I should have the answer to this. Now I'm feeling anxious.
00:07:36
Speaker
So I'll say that those seem to be two big themes, either when I don't know the answer and now like I'm like anxious about that, or I don't know how to grow my business. You know, I have this desire, but I've never done it before. And so it feels uncomfortable leaving my comfort zone.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yep, love that. And I think that speaks to kind of the imposter syndrome that we all feel it. I feel comfortable saying we all feel it. Yes, absolutely. That's a big topic that I speak on. And at the end of the day, I feel like imposter syndrome comes down to, oh, I'm feeling anxious.
00:08:07
Speaker
and fearful and doubtful. Like, you know, I'm taking the emotions that I'm feeling because I'm about to leave my comfort zone. Or I did leave my comfort zone. This feels really uncomfortable. Yes. And so this reminds me of another phrase that I really like called supported risk.
00:08:23
Speaker
And that's something that one of our previous guests, Lorca, who is talking about resilience, she said there's this zone of supported risk. And that's something where it really strikes my brain as, okay, it is a risk. Like I acknowledge it. This is risky. However, let's think about all the things I have done or others have done to support me in this. And this makes it less risky.
00:08:46
Speaker
Absolutely. And when we also think that like anxiety or stress, like depending on what hat it's wearing that day and how it's showing its face to us, let's say, but when anxiety comes in too, we have to think any type of emotion like that is coming from our reptilian part of our brain, just the brain that is, it wants us to survive.
00:09:07
Speaker
So it means well, and it's gonna kick up this feeling of anxiousness or doubt or fear, you know, whatever we wanna call it that day. But it's doing that because it's like, hey, are we gonna survive this? Like, we just wanna live. And when we can also just see like, oh, okay, that's just, yes, yes, I will live through this. But we have to sometimes like just reassure it of that, that, hey, we're growing here, this is gonna be uncomfortable, but I fully will live through this. Can be helpful, because truly it's like operating from a different time.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yes, exactly. These prehistoric thoughts are not really working. Yes. They're trying to live in a modern world. So I wonder if you would be open to sharing some of your personal experiences with anxiety and actually ADHD because you're coming from a place of deep knowing on these things because you have experienced them. So how have they showed up in your life and even in your business?
Maria's Personal Journey with Anxiety and ADHD
00:09:56
Speaker
Absolutely. So I'm someone where I grew up with a highly anxious person. I love my mom. She's a nurse in the healthcare field. She had a strong passion for helping out others, but she's always also a highly anxious person. I was a highly anxious person. I would say she was a chronic worrier. I was a chronic worrier. I was always thinking like, what could go wrong? What do I need to do next? So I grew up
00:10:20
Speaker
figuring out how to control my anxiety, but I did it from a place of control. If I control all the variables that I can and I get the outcome to be just right or how I wanted, then my anxiety would be less. Or at least that's part of the lie that I told myself. And so growing up, you know, I just, I got the best grades and I excelled at the things I excelled at. And if I didn't excel at something, I'm like, you know what? I'm just not going to do that activity anymore. Cause that drives up my anxiousness.
00:10:48
Speaker
So, you know, I could weave through high school just figuring out how to tick the boxes, how to like, I don't know, get the good grades, just be right. Until I got to college and I started noticing more challenges, I was taking some harder courses. I knew I wanted to go into the healthcare field, so that meant a lot of science classes, chem classes, and they were causing me a lot of anxiety and there was no way around them. I couldn't just
00:11:12
Speaker
I don't think I'm going to do this class right now. So for myself, I really started to notice my anxiety start to creep up more when I realized I couldn't control all the variables. I couldn't just hand pick what classes or what challenges whatnot that I was going to face.
00:11:28
Speaker
And then also life just started happening. So I lost a cousin of mine my freshman year of college to brain cancer. And she was a year younger than me. And that on top of the college changes, I started to have panic attacks. And so that's when I knew and you know, the two are related. Basically, I was just having a lot of chronic anxiety and ultimately I could build up and was usually a panic attacks at night.
00:11:53
Speaker
And I remember going to see a doctor for it. And they basically said, well, you could start this anxiety med, but that's like about all I can do for you. Like, good luck. You're a highly anxious human. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, really, is that all like I'm just assigned to this box of I'm a highly anxious human. So I feel like it was then in college that I started at the time was more my own health journey.
00:12:15
Speaker
I was like, you know, I'm going to try working out when I'm moving. You know, I wasn't doing sports in college or anything, but I just started to try to be more mindful of movement. And I found that that helped connecting with my body, getting out of my head. So I will say for me personally, it's why when I went, I joined the occupational therapy field and I started learning more about resilience and mind body techniques and how to get out of my head and connect back to my body.
00:12:40
Speaker
And I was like, wow, this is so powerful and helpful for me. Someone with anxiety, an overachiever, someone with ADHD, which just means I'm constantly multitasking. I have to be busy, struggle with sitting still. Movement could ground me. Movement could keep me present.
00:12:57
Speaker
So that's just when I started diving into all the science behind why, how does this work? How is this happening? I actually took a really great course called How to Rewire Your Anxious Brain and became an anxiety management specialist at the time. So I was starting to see the value of combining mindset-based tools with body-based tools and found such transformational shifts in myself that I was like, I need to share this with other women just like me.
00:13:25
Speaker
I feel like you might be my spirit animal. So that's just something. Yes, I am very in tune with your upbringing and your college experience. So I felt very much the same. You said it a lot better than I can, but basically I also have gone through most of life just trying to use control as a fix, right? And of course there's not a fix because you get control of everything. Yes.
00:13:52
Speaker
but you keep trying, you're like, no, no, no, if I think about it more, if I spend more time on it, I will understand every possible outcome, I will plan for it, I will prep for it. It's impossible and exhausting. So yes, I hear you on that. And I do think that a lot of times, and Mallory's talked about this with just like actual pain management in the body, but a lot of times you go to a doctor or a consultative something,
00:14:19
Speaker
And you'll get just one answer and it will feel really unsatisfying. And you're just thinking, shouldn't there be more, not even just more, shouldn't there just be a more holistic approach to this? Like you said, you're not just stuck in this highly anxious person bucket. You have a lot of other stuff about you.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, I just felt like I know that Western medicine has a lot of great qualities and there are obviously times where we really need to go to a doctor and we need to get things checked out. But personally, and I also worked in the healthcare field then for eight years, but like specifically I worked at Mayo Clinic for a few years.
00:14:58
Speaker
And when it comes to issues that relate to stress and emotional well-being, I just found there was not conversations to be had there. There was just like, here, try this pill. Now you're just a highly anxious person. Or you just struggle with this mental health difficulty.
00:15:14
Speaker
And I just didn't feel like there was a conversation. Like, where was this coming from? What other lifestyle change? I mean, I had to kind of figure that all out myself, which I think often women are like, okay, what do I do with this? Where do I go? Or just assign ourselves to a box of, okay, I guess I'm just a highly anxious person. Right. I'm broken. There we go. Failed it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
00:15:37
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:16:26
Speaker
I'm curious, I mean, both of you could answer this, but Maria, so do you think that with these challenges that there are any silver linings? Are there ways that they've actually helped you in your entrepreneurship or might show up for other people as, you know, it's also a blessing and a curse kind of situation. Do you find that ever?
00:16:46
Speaker
A hundred percent. And I will say that, let's say speaking to the ADHD piece. So I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until about 32. I was 32. I'd been in my business for about a year. I will say many women, let's say between the ages of 30 and 40, probably you maybe know you've had ADHD like qualities.
00:17:09
Speaker
But at a young age, you learned how to mask those qualities, you know, by just like overachieving, by just staying quiet, even if you didn't quite know what was going on, just keep your mouth shut. Yep. And also, like, oftentimes people with ADHD can really thrive off of consistency, routine and structure. So I realized that's why I really liked school. School provided me consistency, routine, structure. Here's the homework. Oh, great. Here's homework. Now I know what boxes I need to check.
00:17:37
Speaker
So I really liked those things. When I went into business, all of that structure was pulled from me and I was like, oh wait, now I have to build my schedule. Now I have to like figure out how to warp time to fit all of these tasks in and nobody's just telling me what to do. So I think sometimes
00:17:57
Speaker
we can all of a sudden realize out, oh, I probably have some ADHD-like tendencies. I'm really struggling here. That was my big sign. And that is why I did ultimately go in to try to seek a diagnosis, to try to find other tools and strategies. How I feel like I've realized and embraced that that can be part of my superpower and my super quality is when I am hyper passionate,
00:18:18
Speaker
about something and something really kind of, I feel that tug and that pull like, Oh, I love this. I can dive all in. I can get the work of 20 men done in an hour on my own. If I see the outcome and I'm like, yes,
00:18:34
Speaker
I can do this. And so I truly feel like that can be a superpower when you're in business or even just in a certain career. If you've got a dream and a vision and that dedication, there's times where you can just make it happen in a hyper focused hour or two. And I love that. What I will say is I have to really be in tune then with where's my energy at.
00:18:53
Speaker
So even though it looks like I only just worked an hour, I put a ton of work in that. So I'm going to go take a 30 minute nap. Now someone else might be like, Raya, why are you taking a nap in the middle of the day? Are you even hardly working? Well, I know. I know that I just did a ton of output. So I think that's the interesting piece about ADHD or some of those qualities is you can be hyper focused, you can be very passionate, go all in on things.
00:19:17
Speaker
You really have to tune into where's my energy level at and what do I need right now? And if that's a nap, take a nap without feeling any shame around. I mean, that's a whole nother story, right? Naps and feeling bad about resting, but yes. Yeah. I feel like you just diagnosed me with ADHD.
00:19:33
Speaker
So that's fine. Yeah, Syllabus Day was my favorite day of every college semester. I was like, they give us the answers, you guys. They write them on the paper. They tell me exactly what to do to be amazing. And what is new when? And I work ahead sometimes. The answers are right here, right? And people would skip Syllabus Day. And I'm like, this is the best day of the semester. What are you doing? Same. Same. I feel very seen by that.
00:20:03
Speaker
I would also say I really like that you're kind of framing this in your mind is like, how can I use this as my superpower? Because I definitely experience the same thing of that hyper focus when you get something that like really lights up your brain. So you've probably done this too, but like I've woken up in the middle of the night and then like drafted an entire new business.
00:20:24
Speaker
because it came to mind and I was like, yeah, let's make horse sport games. Like, yeah, I don't know anything about that, but like, I have a really cool deck about it and it trademarks. But I've always done that. I know Mallory's just like, oh my gosh, stop. I know, I'm sorry.
00:20:43
Speaker
But yes, like, those are the things that we do. And you're like, if you could just light my brain up, like, I'll build this. But yeah, when it takes the energy, that's the huge thing. Exactly. And I think it's also embracing. I mean, we have to remember we live in a society mainly because we're tied to like, with how Western medicine works.
00:21:01
Speaker
If I go in, they need to find what is wrong with me so that my insurance will then pay for my medication or my treatment. That's just like how our system is built. So it's kind of built on pathologizing things. So with anxiety, it's like anxiety could just be an emotion. And I also am not trying to discount people who have maybe really severe anxiety. And I'm not trying to discount and say that it's not real, but anxiety is an emotion. And there's so many tools that we can use to address that.
00:21:28
Speaker
But, you know, when we go into a doctor's office, it's going to make it feel like, oh, my God, I have anxiety. And same with ADHD. I think in order to qualify for certain to try certain treatments or certain approaches, we have to go in. We have to get the head of this doomsday diagnosis of, hey, I'm sorry, you've got ADHD. When really it's like, OK, what we know now is really my brain works differently. I have a neurodivergent brain. It doesn't look like how our typical classroom is set up, how it has you have to sit in a chair and be really structured.
00:21:58
Speaker
But that's just because it's not set up for how my brain works. So that was just another thing I had to learn how to shift my perspective on, oh, I have ADHD. I could make that mean I'm less than, I'm somehow going to have a poorer outcomes because I'm a business owner with ADHD, or I could flip that and make it into my superpower. But I do have to work with my brain. I can't try to make it work like how my husband's brains work. Right.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yes. Well, so this takes us to actually some of those strategies and tools that you're putting together for your clients. And I want to talk about what are some of the most effective ways that you have been able to help women entrepreneurs shift their perspective around anxiety.
Somatic Strategies for Anxiety Management
00:22:39
Speaker
Okay, I want to talk about perspective shifts, but I will say the biggest thing, it's interesting, the biggest mindset shift is realizing that my mind can't solve all my problems. So the shift I'm going to give you is not a mind-based, I mean, it is a mind-based shift, but I'm actually going to tell your mind to kick out of gear.
00:22:55
Speaker
But when it comes to, if you're someone where you're in business and you think you have ADHD-like tendencies, your mind likes to go 100 miles a minute, you can come up with a lot of ideas, or you have anxiety, same thing. Maybe you have an abundance of overthinking thoughts and ideas. You have to realize, I am now very much hyper stuck in my head, and I have disconnected from the wholeness of myself. So I have found tremendous value in teaching my clients how to shift back into their bodies using somatic strategies.
00:23:25
Speaker
And that sounds really fancy. And there's different terms for it. So if you're listening, you know, it can be called embodiment, it can be called getting into your body can be called somatic techniques or somatic therapy. There's different variations of that at the end of the day, we're just trying to get back into the body. And so for me, and for many women, I will say it's why we often value working out, you know, women will say either I like to go for my runs,
00:23:48
Speaker
I need to do my workout in the morning. Or you know, they aim to try those things. It's because it gives their brain a time where it's like, I don't have to be in thinking mode. And so oftentimes tools that I'll tell women, cause they'll be like, well, Maria, I can't do a workout, you know, between my zoom meetings or mid day. So I pull in a lot of essential oils or.
00:24:11
Speaker
anything that's honestly gonna pull in your five senses, technically we have eight, but we don't have to get into that right now, but I'll say what's something you could smell, what's like a really crunchy chewy snack that you could chew on or really thick smoothies that we could drink that's gonna help me get into my body, what's a visual that I could put up, maybe some visual affirmations, a YouTube video that might have water and nature in it, and I'm gonna hear that.
00:24:38
Speaker
Something that's going to pull me into my senses is going to help pull me out of my anxious thoughts or my runaway brain coming up with five new ideas. Not that that's a bad thing, but when I need to ground myself, I'm going to have to pull in my five senses.
00:24:54
Speaker
And what do you do to kind of help women pivot when a lot of the times I think with ADHD or anxiety, what it feels like you should do is just like, no, I don't have time to walk the dog. I don't have time to go to the barn because I need at least another hour or two
00:25:10
Speaker
solve this so that I don't feel this way. So there's like this sense of urgency, right? And there's this brain sense of urgency that's like, no, you better solve this or you're going to feel like this forever. So you sit right here and you solve it, which is insane.
00:25:26
Speaker
I will say I usually try one of two techniques because I've been there. I mean, I've been there, especially if you're in business, I get it. Sometimes you're like, I've got this million dollar idea and I got to get it out. Well, actually, I should say three strategies. One is depending on what it is you're working on. I will actually say working with our brain means sometimes finishing out the idea to execution within reason.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like, I've gotten better with gauging. I really want to finish, let's say I'm working on my sales page or whatever. I really think I can crack that in the next 30 minutes, right? I'm just going to be like, how my brand works is I need to get this out, Tom, go do whatever you've got to do. Like, you know, if I'm holding up a family thing, I'm like, let me just finish this 30 minute sale page and then I'm going to be so present when we go outside together. So it's like one, work with your brain if it's within reason.
00:26:11
Speaker
Number two is I think that's where I teach women a lot of like the power of observing your thoughts. It's a concept that I started learning for a very short period of time, did pediatric occupational therapy, working with kids, which I would never recommend. It was not my favorite. But with kids, you try to teach this concept of it was interesting, this power of the wheel and the spokes on a wheel are all of our thoughts.
00:26:37
Speaker
But how do we come back to being in the center of the wheel, just observing all of the spokes? That was a good concept that we were trying to teach kids. And I'm like, oh, wait, this is for me, too. So for women, if you're in the deep of it, but you're like, no, I know I need to get out of this. We need to practice how do I come out of my thought so I'm not the thought, but I'm working at the thought.
00:26:57
Speaker
Oh, here I am. I'm just forcing myself into XYZ work right now. What could I do next? I could hop back into the thought and go all in on this project, but be here for three hours. Or I'm not going to hop back in the thought. I'm going to go walk my dog around the block.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yep. We also have to get out of that like all or nothing though, because guess what? Our control perfectionist tendencies though, we say, oh no, I need to do three blocks with my dog to make it meaningful. And I say, no, no, no, just do one. Or, oh, but I need to do 45 minutes on my bike right now. It's like, no, no, no, just do five. So I think it's also being really realistic in what can I fit in right now, even if it's not the big enchilada.
00:27:38
Speaker
I've been reading just now, I know it's an old book, but the untethered soul and that's literally what they're talking about and what he talks about in the whole book is looking at your thoughts from the consciousness is what makes you you, not the emotion. So looking at your thoughts like from that center spoke is basically what you're saying from that capital S self from
00:27:57
Speaker
family psychological therapy sessions do that, like internal family systems, but. You guys, if you guys know IFS or if you've just talked to this morning, a person who was my IFS therapist slash coach, and now we're not in that anymore. And now she actually helps me support in my group coaching program. I was just talking to her this morning about how we can incorporate IFS in with women. So I love that you guys also.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of the same sense. It's similar to what you're saying, like anxiety is a piece of me. It's one part of me. Yes. But also what the author of that book was saying is like looking at your thoughts happening, like you're the observer, not the actual thought. So I mean, that's the entire book's basis and I'm reading it right now. So it's so poignant that you just said that.
00:28:41
Speaker
I'm wanting to shift just slightly and go back to something we talked about in the beginning. So one thing that I know that you coach clients on a lot is how to overcome self-doubt and imposter syndrome, which is the buzzword we've already talked about. But I think we can get into that a little bit more. Now you say that stress and anxiety ramp up these feelings. So how can we as business owners then flip that script on that negative self-talk?
00:29:06
Speaker
So with the program that I do, so the program's called RISE. It's an eight-week group coaching program. And because I know that repetition can be helpful, tools that we're learning is really similar to what we just talked about here. When I notice my inner critic or my negative self-talk turn on, how do I, one, step out of those thoughts and observe them? Realize that that's actually not me. That's a part of me coming up right now.
00:29:33
Speaker
And then also, I need to have tools to check in with my body. Am I feeling highly anxious right now? Am I feeling stressed out? The other thing we have to remember is that we are one human living out an entire life. So let's just say, for example, I'm feeling imposter syndrome in my business right now because I'm about to do XYZ thing.
00:29:54
Speaker
And we also though, let's say we're someone who were having some family dynamic issues going on. So I'm feeling more anxious and stressed because I'm worried about this family member and this happened in a friendship. So even though it's two different silos of our life, if I'm just in general feeling more stressed and anxious, my body is of course gonna send me signals like, eh, we don't have time for this right now. We can't take this big leap right now because I'm expending a lot of energy
00:30:24
Speaker
stressing about family, stressing about this friendship or whatever it might be, stressing about adding a team member on, even though it has nothing to do with this other thing that I want to do and that I actually have imposter syndrome on. At the end of the day, though, I'm one human body who's experiencing more stress, more anxiousness. The two are correlated. So my body's already just saying like, we don't have energy to leap into this new thing until I can figure out tools
00:30:48
Speaker
to calm my body down. It's not going to feel safe and I won't feel ready to take that big leap.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah, this reminds me of a question that I had about specifically the business piece, which you just kind of alluded to. So when we're women in business and we have goals that we set for our companies, we have, it might be financial goals, it might be building out a team, it might be doing a different service offering, and those feel like things that you know, it might be something you know you should do or that you really do at your core want to do.
00:31:23
Speaker
But anxiety can feel pretty black and white, and so it can feel like there's no middle ground between making your whole life about controlling anxiety, any decent thing, versus meeting your goals. It can feel very much like, well, I don't have the energy to meet these goals because I'm trying to create this life that works
00:31:48
Speaker
with the anxiety that I have, or I have to spend all of my energy on meeting these goals, and so I don't have time to deal with my anxiety, right? So how do we kind of marry those two things and say, you know what, I have business goals, but I'm also trying to have a life that works better for me and just literally feels better.
Prioritizing Personal Healing Over Business Growth
00:32:08
Speaker
Yeah, so I probably took an unconventional approach to this, but I will say that it worked. I don't know if this would work for everyone. So what I mean is that so I started my business in April of 2021.
00:32:23
Speaker
And about a year and a half ago, I decided and I knew that I couldn't grow my business to the level that I wanted if my anxiety and stress levels stayed where they were at. And I'd already done a lot of work on it.
00:32:38
Speaker
I had already come to a spot where I'm like, oh, I'm getting better. I'm managing my anxiety, my stress better. Like, I think I'm doing pretty good. But like you said, then you become an entrepreneur or a business owner. You're like, holy cow. There's a lot more variables here. There's a lot more me wearing. Do people like me? Yeah. Is this looking good? Like, there's just a whole new set of worries that I wasn't ready for. Or, you know, you just didn't expect.
00:32:58
Speaker
And so about a year and a half in, I knew that actually my stress, my anxiety, my doubt was going to be the thing that was going to hold me back from living out my goals. So I know that everybody's in a different space financially and time-wise. And I also have a five-year-old, so I've had to just shift and make it work. But I decided to go all in on healing myself.
00:33:22
Speaker
Like I had to figure out where is the stress really coming from? Where is my anxiety really coming from? What parts of myself don't feel seen and heard? Where do I feel like I'm splitting because I'm trying to be this for this person and I'm trying to be this for this person?
00:33:37
Speaker
So I honestly did a ton of self-development. And some people would think like, well, geez, you've got this business going on here. You're in this thing and this thing. I knew I had to do it. So I mean, that's when I dove more into like a subconscious component of what beliefs are driving my anxiety.
00:33:56
Speaker
I had to take a deeper dive, you know, just into my own like spirituality and what that meant for me. And how can I find a way spiritually to feel supported, which is going to look different for everyone. But I knew I was going to have to get those pillars in place. And I'll say about almost a year later from when I started that journey.
00:34:14
Speaker
I feel ready to really grow my business. And I don't think I would have been able to do that had I kept just ignoring or trying to gloss over my stress and anxiety. So what I will say is like stress and anxiety are normal, we all have them, we don't need to feel shame about it. But there are and it is absolutely worth
00:34:34
Speaker
figuring out like the core of where's this coming from because it's so freeing and you're just going to find like, oh, the business goals and stuff. I don't want to say that's easy. It's not easy, but it's going to be easier when you don't feel like anxiety is hanging over you like a big old cloud. Yes, I agree.
00:34:51
Speaker
I think this kind of dovetails into you've said this word earlier in the interview, but I think this kind of dovetails into a conversation around resilience too. So we've mentioned Lorca's episode. We had a whole episode on resilience. We talk about it in our mindset course because it can be a tool to really manage everything in your life. Absolutely.
00:35:12
Speaker
But I want to hear what your definition of what resilience actually means to you and then any practical tips that you coach people on or talk about when it comes to building more of resilience.
Resilience Tools for Stress Management
00:35:24
Speaker
Yes. So as a business owner, when I started my business, I will say I said I was in the camp of I help women manage stress and improve resilience. Now, my own core messaging has evolved from that, but I will say at the core of what I do,
00:35:40
Speaker
it's helping women build resilience. So what that means to me is that life is going to be full of ups and downs and winds and curves. Improving resilience means I have this ability where I have these tools that when something comes my way, I know how I'm going to modulate my emotions, my thoughts,
00:36:04
Speaker
how I'm going to shift my perspective, and ultimately how I'm going to come out looking at my path like, what did that teach me? What did I learn from that? What am I going to do next? So when we have resilience, we feel like we can navigate this what sometimes feels really windy and curvy and up and down journey.
00:36:24
Speaker
But I can weather that storm so much better because I have tools. I don't feel like it's going to completely shake me off my path. And when I was doing resilience workshops, I will say that we often think of it like you can go to a workshop on building resilience and they talk all about mindset. Or you can go to a workshop about resilience and they talk all about how breath work is going to be the thing.
00:36:49
Speaker
When I do a resilience workshop, I tell people I consider there's three different types of strategies, mind-based tools, body-based tools, and then ultimately, are you doing something fun in your life? So when we just add in more joy into our life, it's just another great counterbalance of stress and it helps improve our resilience.
00:37:09
Speaker
So I like telling people that if we're going to build resilience, we should have tools from each of those buckets. Do I have things that bring me joy? Do I have some body-based tools that help regulate my nervous system? And do I have some mindset-based tools that help me shift my perspective? But I really should have a tool from each bucket because what works in one season or just on this day of the week versus this day of the week,
00:37:32
Speaker
isn't always going to be the same. So how can we have a well-rounded toolbox? Gotcha. And that speaks to me, I think, because you can get really focused on a certain set of tools, right? And you're like, no, I've been working on this one for 20 years. So this is the one that I'm going to use. And it's like, oh, I need like a whole bunch because maybe today that one's not going to work. And I need backups for those tools.
00:37:57
Speaker
And like, I think, you know, depending on the person, you might end up in the camp of where you have 95% tools in one bucket and you don't know that until someone's like, what are you doing? And you're like, well, it's 1000% just thinking about it.
00:38:13
Speaker
You're like, that's probably not it. When's the last time you had fun? I don't know what is that. What is that? It sounds nice. I've heard people talk about it. So yeah, that's definitely something that I feel seen by. I want to give one analogy.
00:38:28
Speaker
Like when you think about it, it's so funny how our mind and sometimes that anxiety part like shows itself. Meaning let's say if a plumber is going to go onto a job to go fix a toilet, let's say he doesn't go onto the job with just one tool because he knows one tool is going to be the magic tool that will fix every toilet. Right. Like he knows that that's not realistic, but ironically, like our anxiety will tell us because it wants control and predictability.
00:38:51
Speaker
it will say, give me the one tool, please, just tell me that Breathwork is the tool and I will nail that tool and I will master it because that's gonna give me control. But you're like, well, that doesn't make any sense though because when a plumber goes on the job, he's got like eight to 10 tools and depending on the situation and the scenario, he's gonna use that broader perspective of which tool. And guess what? He might even pick a tool and it might be the wrong one. And he's not gonna think anything of it. He's just gonna pick another tool.
00:39:20
Speaker
So it's like just bridening that perspective when anxiety shows itself or self-doubt or whatever. What's in your toolbox? What are you going to pick? If you picked the wrong one on the first, no big deal. Grab another one. But it doesn't have to be, give me the tool because that's kind of the anxiety showing itself. Like it wants control and predictability, but there's beauty in having a variety of tools. Yes. So good. So good. That's so true. That's so true.
00:39:44
Speaker
Tell us about some of the, you call them bottoms up approaches. So when you're thinking about the tools in these buckets, what are some of the common things that you're telling women to make sure that they keep in the plumbing truck?
Practical Mind and Body Tools
00:39:58
Speaker
Just in case.
00:39:59
Speaker
Just in case, just keep it in there. Yes. So when it comes to mind-based tools, two of my favorites that I tend to coach women in is how to use journaling and really journaling either prompted journaling, like for women who are like, I don't know what to write. Yeah. And like, okay, then get a journal with some prompts or like there's apps that you can download now. And like, when you open up the app each day, it'll give you a prompt.
00:40:23
Speaker
So prompted journaling can be nice because it gives your brain some new, I call it brain food to chew on. So let's say the prompt that morning is, what is one of your dreams? Or I don't know, one of the prompts might be list your three gratitudes. So prompted journaling can be nice for women who just want different brain food to chew on for that day.
00:40:44
Speaker
And it gives their brain something nice to think about. There's also uncensored journaling, which I tend to call a brain dump. That's another great mind based tool when I just have too much going on upstairs. And I'm starting to get to the point where honestly, I start to feel like manic. I'm like, I don't know what to do with all this. I'm kind of going crazy. Yeah.
00:41:01
Speaker
I'm like, do a brain dump. So I need you to just get out a piece of paper and write it all down. It doesn't need to look pretty. It doesn't need to make sense, but I need you to get it on paper. And for some women, just that mind based tool of getting it out is so helpful.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yep. So those are two examples of mind-based tools. If I'm talking about like what are some body-based approaches, which again, body-based approaches is that bottom up. It's like I'm trying to regulate my body first. I should mention I'm also HeartMath Institute certified to do HeartMath biofeedback.
00:41:35
Speaker
biofeedback, which I will say I don't do a lot of in-person sessions with this anymore, but it was a game changer for me because my anxiety could tell me, oh, you know what, that breathing thing, that didn't really work for us. No, I'm done with it. It could tell me a lot of things. When I had biofeedback and heart math biofeedback shows you heart rate variability, you get to see how the tool helps.
00:41:58
Speaker
Is it a little device that you hold and you put your thumb on it and it takes your or there's different ones? Maybe I had one. Yeah, yeah, there's different ones. The HeartMath one was there's an ear sensor and it's a Bluetooth one to a phone app. But there are different forms or types of biofeedback and it was non-negotiable how crazy effective it was when I would use a tool and how I could regulate my own heart pattern. The evidence was irrefutable and my brand was like, oh,
00:42:26
Speaker
Oh, that doesn't really work. But like, so these bottom up based approaches and what they found with research at the HeartMath Institute was that honestly, our body also has great effect over our mind. And so when I am more regulated, I can now pull more positive
00:42:43
Speaker
clear thoughts. So it's why I really like bottom up based approaches. So as I mentioned, that could be like essential oils. I usually start women with like peppermint, lavender, or lemon trying one of those. And honestly, just keeping the bottle, I usually have one right near me right now. But anyways, keeping a bottle and essential oil literally right by where you work and just smelling it.
00:43:09
Speaker
when you need to calm and relax. You can also do different activities that they will stimulate our proprioceptive system, which is a way that is also calming and organizing for our body. So that might be what I call a pushing prayer pose, where you bring your hands together kind of at your heart center like you're in yoga doing that prayer pose.
00:43:30
Speaker
And you're going to push your hands together as you inhale, and then you're going to release your hands and exhale. And what I'm trying to get the person to focus on is I want them to feel the pushing feeling in their body as they push hand to hand, and then also feel the full release when they let their arms come down to their side. So that might be a body-based strategy that I say, have something like that in your toolbox.
00:43:55
Speaker
You have so many. Yeah, I love that your brain was like, I'll do it if you show me the receipts. If you can't give me the report, I'm not doing it.
00:44:05
Speaker
Okay, so you have lots of techniques, I'm sure more strategies we could talk about. And in the show notes, we'll have how people can find you if they want to work with you or learn from you and follow you. But to wrap us up, since you are, well, you're coming up on your three year anniversary, but what was something just as a fun closer that you wish some piece of advice that you wish you would have got when you have first started your business?
Embracing Non-linear Entrepreneurship
00:44:31
Speaker
I will say business is not something that you need to tackle like school, like a traditional career where there's like a ladder of, oh, you started this position, then you'll work your way up to manager, then you'll get this. Business is not predictable and failure is inevitable and it's actually a good thing.
00:44:53
Speaker
So realizing that business was really more like what I make it, I get to decide. I get freedom, I get choice, but it's non-linear. And I wasn't used to that. I was very used to linear pathways of like, oh, if I just do this, A plus B will always equal C. A plus B plus C plus D will always equal E. That's what I was used to. And I thought I could master business from that framework.
00:45:19
Speaker
and I just realized there's a lot more like pivoting and you pull here and you flub up here but that's great because now you know that that doesn't work so then you just do this instead and from the outside in you look at businesshood and you kind of tell yourself like oh they just did this this and this and boom they had success right you don't see
00:45:39
Speaker
all the behind the scenes of all the times they had to pitch that idea to no investors, or all the times they had to trial their sales page before it was the one that really helped to resonate with people. You don't really see all of those when you're looking from the outside in. So I think if just someone would have really, it's totally nonlinear, it's not going to be what you expect, just go with the flow. And well, quite frankly, I guess if someone had told me that I maybe would have. Yeah, you're like, this isn't for me, nothing you're saying sounds like pee.
00:46:09
Speaker
So maybe a little bit of that naivety was okay. Yeah. But yeah, I think like just that permission to fail that permission to pivot. If I would have known that sooner and earlier on since I joined this group coaching program with James Wedmore, it has been very helpful feeling surrounded by other people who are
00:46:26
Speaker
screwing up sooner so that we can get to the next great idea sooner. And I will say that'd be my other piece of advice, actually, would be find other entrepreneurs or business owners that you can grapple it with and network with and collab with, but also rise and fall with. At the end of the day, it's just it's ups and downs and find people to do that journey with. That would be advice advice I wish I could tell myself to do sooner. That is wonderful advice from someone who is also a linear success addict. I hear you on that. I hear you on that.
00:46:54
Speaker
Thank you so much for chatting with us about anxiety and ADHD and everything between and just kind of normalizing the topic. I think it's really important so that people know that they can be business owners and also experience these things and still be successful. Like it's fine. Well, I think that's huge.
00:47:14
Speaker
It is. It is. And thank you so much. Thank you. I so appreciate you both. I'm so excited that we connected. And yeah, I'm so excited to share this conversation. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And we'll see everyone next week. Thanks for listening. Hop over to UnboundBoss.com to join our community and leave us a voice memo. We absolutely love hearing from you. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, leave us an Apple review, and share your favorite episodes with other women entrepreneurs. Talk to you soon.