Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
26. How to Neurodesign Your Workspace with Shannon Harris
11 Plays7 months ago
“Your environment is self-care, so create a space that lightens your cognitive load.”
In this episode, we delve into the fascinating world of neurodesign with Shannon Harris, a serial entrepreneur and visionary in real estate development, interior design, and healthy home living.
As the founder of Fuse Living and Homeself Neurodesign, Shannon has mastered the art of creating optimal living spaces that seamlessly blend sustainability, functionality, personality and aesthetics. Unlike most traditional designers, though, she bases her methods on cutting-edge neuroscience.
In this episode, you’ll learn how to:
- Craft an environment that fosters well-being and productivity.
- Brainstorm “solve small” strategies that have an outsized impact on your brain.
- Incorporate the five senses into your workspace to subconsciously lift your spirits.
- Apply the principles of neurodesign to reduce “threats” you didn’t even notice.
- Implement practical tips to reduce cognitive load and bring more joy to your work.
For more inspiration, subscribe to Unbound Turnarounds on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
LINKS:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Unbound Turnarounds
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Unbound Turnarounds, a podcast all about the challenges women business owners think about constantly, but rarely voice. We're Nicole and Mallory, entrepreneurs, friends, and co-founders of Business Unbound, a community helping women alleviate the headaches, heartaches, and backaches so work actually works for life. This is your safe space for the ups, downs, and the turnarounds.
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome back to Unbound Turnarounds. We just had to sneak in one more bonus episode before we wrapped up our season on well-being. So today we're going to talk about how your actual physical environment affects the way that you feel about work and life. So Mal, who do we have
Meet Shannon Harris: Entrepreneur and Designer
00:00:51
Speaker
today?
00:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, so today I'm really excited. We have a dear friend of mine, Shannon Harris, with us today. So Shannon is a self-proclaimed serial entrepreneur in the world of real estate development, interior design, and healthy home living. As founder of Fuse Living, Shannon has envisioned and completed multiple development projects while crafting the perfect team of industry experts.
00:01:12
Speaker
Shannon is passionate about sustainable, healthy homes and has an acute interest in environmental psychology studying how humans interact with their interior and exterior surroundings. Fuse Living also operates as a full-service interior design firm. They're servicing homeowners throughout the Phoenix Valley and beyond. They have project experience in building and new construction, and Fuse Living carries the ability to manage their design projects with a contractor's perspective.
00:01:40
Speaker
Current interior design projects include sustainable remodels, custom new builds, and complete home furniture, art, and accessory design. Shannon's also co-founder of Magis Developments. Together, the founders work to create the most optimal living spaces that incorporate efficiencies in building, health-driven solutions, and long-lasting designs.
00:02:01
Speaker
And she said she was self-proclaimed serial entrepreneur.
Neuroscience of Space with HomeSelf NeuroDesign
00:02:04
Speaker
So we have one more. Lastly, Shannon is the founder of HomeSelf NeuroDesign, a collection of courses and toolkits curated in partnership with Dr. Fatima and experienced neuroscientists that are based on the neuroscience of how we respond to our physical environments. The courses are tailored to design professionals, life coaches, and entrepreneurs on personal growth journeys.
00:02:27
Speaker
Utilizing principles of sensory design to optimize our state of being in our physical space is key to successfully reaching our desired goals. And that is exactly what we're going to talk about today. So Shannon, thank you for being here. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
00:02:44
Speaker
So I loved this idea of adding this bonus episode because I've never even heard of neuro design, right? So I am a total newbie to this, but I have heard of neuro marketing in my space. So this is your version of it and I want to know everything. So what exactly is neuro design?
00:03:02
Speaker
So really, the correct term would be neuroaesthetics. The company that I'm creating is Home Self Neurodesign. So just in the name, people can understand that it's design and neuroscience. But really, the technical term would be neuroaesthetics. And it's sort of an emerging field of study within neuroscience. And obviously, aesthetics is, you know,
00:03:27
Speaker
how we perceive things in beauty and things like that. And so everything aesthetic is really being looked at and studied for how that affects different neuro pathways and what lights up when basically.
00:03:40
Speaker
I mean, that's so cool. I mean, we're getting into it right away. This is awesome. Okay, I know you've studied this a lot. You have a partner that you're collab with who's an actual neuroscientist. You have the science backing your new efforts in what you're doing. But talk to us about the benefits of applying neuroesthetics or neurodesign to our work environments.
Sensory Design and Cognitive Load
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah. So if we kind of, if we step back just a little bit, there's two basic principles of what we're identifying within our home self program and courses as the neuro aesthetic kind of pillars to stand on. And so a lot of it is sensory design and cognitive load or cognitive fatigue. So
00:04:24
Speaker
Now I'm going to go jump right into two facts, two facts that actually blow my mind that really kind of built these two pillars. One that came from Dr. Fatima is that our brains are designed to wander 50% of the time. Well, I'm nailing that in my life. I'm doing it. I'm doing it.
00:04:46
Speaker
So, but it was really fascinating to me because then if you look at your environment and you look at how we perceive our environments and how our different pathways light up, that's all the sensory inputs. And obviously the five senses are our most common. So smells, sight, touch, right? Like all of those things. And so if you're in an environment that is super heavy loaded with a lot of sensory things happening,
00:05:11
Speaker
that's actually going to add to your cognitive load right away subconsciously without you knowing. And so that doesn't actually allow for you to have that mind wandering available to you because it's getting flooded with extra basically white noise nonsense. And so that's like the number one kind of foundational thing I'll say on how our environments affect our working habits and our kind of workflow, if you will.
00:05:36
Speaker
that the more you have that's inputting in a negative way, the more you're gonna run down your cognitive battery a lot quicker. See, this is really interesting because we've used that term, cognitive load, and used that cognitive fatigue. I think we probably talked about it in last week's episode with Stefan, but I know in our mental wellbeing, our boost your brain wellbeing course, we do talk about the two main ways
00:06:02
Speaker
to build resilience in your life. And one of them is by lightening your load. And this is what it's talking about. So all those things we talk about in the course of how to lighten your cognitive load or be more available to carry a heavier load. Those are the two ways.
00:06:18
Speaker
One of the ways we didn't even think about is simply getting some of these sensory distractions. Just correct me if I'm not getting this right, but you're saying we could even lighten our cognitive load by just clearing some of the space around us, making it less negatively impacting us. Okay.
00:06:37
Speaker
That's so cool. I was going to say, so if you look, if you think about clutter, right? Like clutter is a big topic, like clear a clutter, clear the clutter. And so to take that, like I'm just like that why person, right? Like, but why? Why does clearing clutter matter? Why is it impactful? And so like, that's kind of what this whole home self does is ask those why questions and get into the nuts and bolts of it. So that way you can, you can understand, people can understand, implement and improve, right?
00:07:02
Speaker
So the why is because of that sensory load, that cognitive load that ends up draining that battery where you get fatigued a lot.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yes. OK, so there's a way that you've put it that I thought was really helpful, which is that our environments play a role in our ability to shift our mood by understanding how the brain perceives what is around us. So sensory design specifically lights up different neural pathways, tapping into the state of being that we desire. So let's say, for entrepreneurs, we desire calm, focus.
00:07:38
Speaker
creativity.
Personalizing Work Environments
00:07:40
Speaker
And so what you're saying is that our physical environment lights up different neural pathways depending on how we have it set up. And if we want more calm, more focus, more creativity, whatever it is that we want, we can actually design our environment to support that. Correct. Yeah, just by how it's set up.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yes. And there's nuances, right? So then there's sort of like a general baseline for every human based on our evolution and just being human, how our brains perceive things based on evolution. And then there's like the second layer of how we perceive things, how each individual does because of their past experiences in history. So like psychology or, you know, there's always that baseline human level. And then there's the very highly personal level. And so there is definitely an element of self-discovery
00:08:28
Speaker
involved in what we're having people walk through and that's where like the toolkits and that kind of comes into play. But basically through evolution, if you look at a certain shape, let's say a triangle versus a circle, for example, a triangle is a more rigid shape. And that subconsciously we read that as a more feared shape because it's sharp teeth, it's tusks, it's tusks, it's, you know, it's like,
00:08:51
Speaker
Thorns on bushes and all the things that you know, we feared when we lived in the wild way back when and so that Naturally just lights up a pathway that has some fear-based backing to it And so if we eliminate textures patterns shapes that ignite fear within us subconsciously so that's kind of step number one like eliminate the threats as Dr. Fotsma calls it and then Introduce the the calming elements. So circles are more calming
00:09:21
Speaker
our eyes actually have more receptors to recognize the shape of a circle than it does jagged edges. And so because we have more receptors, we become more familiar with that and familiarity creates a calm. So like, there's so many different, like if then and just like goes down the line of why and how it all works. And it's so geeky and nuts.
00:09:47
Speaker
Well, you said that it, you know, like you said, it's also highly dependent on the person, right? So not, it's not like, here's the one way to set up your workspace as an entrepreneur. And this will make you more creative and focused, because different people like different colors and patterns and textures and all the things. So you're saying that probably within someone's personal preferences for design, there are ways to tap into
00:10:13
Speaker
calming elements of that or things that don't necessarily light up those evolutionary fear pathways. But you can still be an individual. Yes. Yes. Okay. Very much so. Yeah. It's hard to not get stuck in trends. I think we think that we might like something because it's trendier because you are familiar with it. The key is to really dive in and make sure it actually resonates with you and it's not just because you've seen it a thousand times.
00:10:43
Speaker
Right. Do you actually like shiplap or is it just because Joanna Gaines has shiplap everywhere? I don't know. Let's think about it. Let's think about it. Okay. So then maybe my next question logically is, okay, how can we take this and apply it to our workspace? But there is this individual component. But maybe the best place to start is some of these general things that you know apply to everyone. Like you'd like the circles, which is
00:11:09
Speaker
so interesting to me. Are there other ways we can take this and apply it to our personal work environment?
Biophilic Design for Stress Reduction
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, I would say biophilia is a large part of the calm element, the calm and stress reducing. What is it? Biophilia. Explain. I don't know if I know that. Biophilia is the study of the natural world, things that are reminiscent of the natural world. A lot of people just think about plants and plantings, but it really goes into air changes and wind and light and light temperature.
00:11:44
Speaker
types of lighting for different types of day and a lot of different kind of deep layers. But again, from that kind of baseline human perspective, we resonate a lot with biophilic design because that is so naturally ingrained in us. We have not gone so far into evolution that we don't resonate with nature and natural element.
00:12:06
Speaker
And so I would say like an open window to let some wind pass through or have air changes or a fan or something to just kind of like continual movement of air change. Pay attention to your lighting patterns and lighting types for certain types of day, plant life for sure. And then the secondary nuance of plant life is fractals and fractal patterns.
00:12:30
Speaker
So that's just like, if you look at the pattern of a leaf or you look at like the tiny little crystal pattern of a rock, like those are all fractals. All these, what kind of looks chaotic but has some cohesion to it, those are fractal patterns. So the place to start is kind of at nature, right? So if you're just thinking like, I'm gonna just do a few little things to start, the few little things would be like,
00:12:58
Speaker
Think about the air, think about the light, think about the plant life. This is why we love house plants, obviously. They're everywhere in my house. So just start with kind of the most nature-based elements first. Yep. Okay. Okay, so that's mostly visual sensory, right?
00:13:22
Speaker
I mean, the air changes in touch and feel, you know, are there other things for other senses that we can work on lightening their load to that other tactics to work on those?
Sound's Impact on Mood and Productivity
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah, he like sounds, you know, like lo-fi sounds are becoming popular, and that's for good reason. And, you know, different hurts waves for different moods that you want to tap into because that's just everything is frequency. And so different moods and different neural pathways resonate with different frequencies. So if you really break it down, like that's ultimately what it is, is the frequency that you want to be on. And so you introduce again, like patterns and the visuals that are on that frequency sounds that are on that frequency.
00:14:02
Speaker
It's a lot of meditative music, lo-fi music, things like that to get to that calm and stress-free. But again, you can adjust that based on what you personally like. Not everyone wants maybe spa music in the home while working, but perhaps they love
00:14:24
Speaker
nature soundtracks and they're going to play something with rivers and pastures and something like that. Within that, again, there's personal preference. It's not that you have to just do one thing.
00:14:40
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. And there's the personal preference that you're aware of and then the kind of preferences that happen subconsciously. So like you might be like, oh, I hate meditation music. And you listen to it enough times and you're like, but I actually am starting to feel really calm with this. So maybe, and you can develop, so you can change, so your pathways are elastic, right? And so you can change. And that's the whole point of all of it.
00:15:01
Speaker
is going through that self-discovery so you can help kind of change that neuroplasticity to then help you deeper get into those states that you want to be in and kind of break those old barriers.
00:15:13
Speaker
So how do you go about figuring out what you actually like, right? Because I think some entrepreneurs are so used to bouncing around all the time, or especially like working moms like Mal, and you're just used to kind of chaos and things happening and things everywhere. And, you know, like that may feel familiar slash comfortable when really what your body needs is something else. So how do you go about guiding people through that?
00:15:39
Speaker
I mean it's highly intentional and so you know for me right now starting with putting out the courses and kind of putting out this offering to the world and to a couple different avatars of people you know it's it's
00:15:52
Speaker
I'm saying it's geared to people on their growth journey because you have to be open to it, right? You have to be intentional about it. You need to be open to trying new things and it's been a lot of trial and error. I've taken myself through the trials and errors a ton and that's how I've developed all of the insights and the toolkits and all of that, right? So it just has to be intentional and you have to be open to trying new things.
00:16:14
Speaker
I want to go back to one more sense, so smell. I know that's not necessarily design, but maybe because it came up in our episode with Maria, the Anxiety Your Superpower episode. She said that she keeps essential oils on her desk and she can just swipe it under her nose
00:16:36
Speaker
Because she coaches on anxiety, so she uses that as a tactic. And I know I have a diffuser over here in the corner, and sometimes I have a couple different ones that I like to have on. And I'm assuming diffusers kind of go into design. But is there anything that you guys talk about in the course or that your collab partner, Dr. Fatima, has shared about smell?
00:16:58
Speaker
Not in our courses yet, but I have been reading up on, you know, the kind of like more periphery senses and smell is a very big one. It is again, it goes back to that frequency, like every scent takes on a different frequency. And so scent actually has a lot to do with our emotion and emotional processing.
00:17:15
Speaker
Because again, those frequencies ignite those different neural pathways. So yeah, scent is not one that I've dug into for home self specifically as deep, but I do know that there is a lot of power behind it. I would imagine. Yeah. The smell aspect, the different aromas that people find personally soothing, for example, that's
00:17:38
Speaker
If somebody's totally new to neuro design, I think just imagine that sense that you get from like your favorite candle, your favorite, you know, something baking in the oven and just translate that and be like, there are other things I can do for other senses that will automatically make me feel similar to that. Like it's not just different essential oils, like it's that, but it's also, there are different things that can trigger your brain to feel better.
00:18:08
Speaker
that apply to all the other senses too. Love what you're hearing? Business Unbound online courses help you implement the ideas from this show and change how your company runs in big and small ways for the better. Our courses are meticulously crafted, packed with tactical tools and solutions, and designed to help women genuinely enjoy the day-to-day business journey.
00:18:32
Speaker
We've poured insights from our collective 13 years of entrepreneurship and work with more than 100 clients into every course. And the good news is that we're just getting started. We're on a mission to unite women entrepreneurs who understand challenges, loneliness, and vulnerabilities of running a business. And we want you to be part of it. Visit UnboundBoss.com to browse our course library. We cannot wait to join you on your journey.
00:19:01
Speaker
When it comes to making work feel better, are there additional mental benefits when we do this kind of work?
Reducing Mental Load for Efficiency
00:19:10
Speaker
Like the ability to focus or like you said, like changing your actual mental load that you can carry. So what are some of the auxiliary benefits that maybe we haven't even thought of as entrepreneurs? Like this work can change our mental pathways. How?
00:19:31
Speaker
I think it all just translates into life, and I think that's sort of the entrepreneurial story. I have found that when I've been able to reduce my cognitive load from these different tactics, I'm more efficient in my work, which then frees up more of my time to spend on personal things or with my kids or whatever else.
00:19:52
Speaker
Nothing specifically is calling out to me right now with that question, but it's just that trickle effect into your personal goals, your personal life, your personal ambitions as well. Because really, as entrepreneurs, those are all interrelated. Well, and I think we all have the goal of decreasing that mental load, right? I mean, that's music to everyone's ears is just like, how? How? Because it's so constant. As you're talking, though,
00:20:21
Speaker
We've alluded to this, but this isn't just in our careers, right? This is in our lives, too, this whole concept. And I haven't even said this to Shannon yet, but I noticed. So I was recently visiting Shannon, and I was staying with her. And in one of the mornings, we had the girls had to get ready for school, her kids. And she had on calming music in the background. She probably doesn't even know that I noticed this. And because the mornings are chaotic, anybody who has to get kids ready for school, it can be really stressful.
00:20:50
Speaker
And I just happened to notice, because I don't do this, and I was like, oh, that is a really nice touch. It's just kind of this underlying tone for the morning that they don't even know that it's affecting their brains. But it just kind of helps set the tone and calm everybody down. And so there's all these concepts of smells and sights and sound that we can take and apply just to our lives. And I think if we lighten the cognitive load outside of work,
00:21:19
Speaker
That's the same thing as also lightening it for work. So it, you know, inadvertently affects us in our careers too, right? It all plays together. Totally. And I like to look at it holistically. Like, what are your goals that you're after? What are you trying to achieve right now, tomorrow, next month, next year? And like, how can your environment set you up to achieve those goals? And I think one of the easiest things, this was actually one of the very first thoughts that kind of kicked off the whole like, oh, I need to do something with this. It was like,
00:21:51
Speaker
couple years ago, life coach going through and she was just talking, I was using her, but she was also talking about someone else and setting a goal of like running every morning and you know, their, their wood floor was like cold or their tile floor was cold. And you're like, well, put a fuzzy rug under down and it's like nice feeling. And then they're not like, Oh, inverse to stepping down on cold tile. You know what I mean? Like, what are the tiny little micro things you can do to help support your goal? So that way you can release that resistance.
00:22:19
Speaker
You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be a whole huge situation. It can be very, very integral. Oh my gosh.
Environmental Changes and Seasonal Moods
00:22:29
Speaker
Neither of you know this, but I think Nicole is going to appreciate this. This is just personal story time, I guess. We're just sharing all these stories.
00:22:36
Speaker
For my anniversary this year, my husband, okay, if anybody's been following along long enough, I was living in Phoenix, where Shannon is, that's how we were friends, and then I moved to Calgary. It is very cold here. I was not used to this. I've been cold the whole time I've been here, which is almost three years. So this year for our anniversary, which was just in February,
00:22:58
Speaker
My husband bought me a heated sweatshirt. And I remember Nicole telling me about these years ago because she lives in Montana. And honest to God, I think it has done something to my cognitive load. Because now, instead of just constantly, I'm making dinner and I'm cold. I'm sitting watching TV. I'm cold. I'm reading in bed. I'm cold.
00:23:19
Speaker
That's no longer the case. It's like taking that and completely removed it. So now it's like all this space to think about other things besides being cold. Now this is just like a small, tiny, geeky example, but is this right? Is that what we're talking about? You know what that's bringing up for me?
00:23:36
Speaker
So weirdly, like I'm obviously in the world of design and there's luxury pieces and luxury is like all the thing you talk about. And I have such a resistance to luxury. And I'm like, why? Like we don't have to live this way. Like we don't need the most expensive things. Like, what did I like luxury? Now I've, you know, kind of changed that thought pattern. Like it doesn't have to mean expensive or pricey or whatever. But as we were talking now, this is kind of what it's bringing up, like,
00:24:00
Speaker
You gave yourself a luxury. Stefan gave you a luxury of not being cold anymore, right? So like, what are those little luxuries that you can introduce into your life that just make you feel so, so good?
00:24:13
Speaker
because that does 100% reduce that load of that perseverating thought or that perseverating feeling in the back of your mind. I never even thought about that till now, but it makes so much sense now. Well, this aligns perfectly with what I was just thinking in my head of what about seasons? Because a lot of us are in places that have really cold, really dark,
00:24:36
Speaker
Seasons for six months of the year right and as an entrepreneur like i noticed that cut off. Four hours a day of when i felt like i could actually work right cuz it's just it's so dark so early.
00:24:52
Speaker
Right. And it is cold and I'm spending all of like my body's energy is going into trying not to be sad and trying not to be cold. Right. Like like it is tired. It is tired. My sports are outdoors. Like it's just everything is cold and tiring. So do you also suggest that people change their environment based on some seasonal things? Like like I feel like I need to do things differently in the winter and just start accepting that.
00:25:23
Speaker
100%. This was actually something that Dr. Potsma was really keen on, was this notion of a resilient environment. Because as you grow, your preferences are going to change. As your day changes, your preferences are going to change. I never thought about it seasonally, but yeah, you're 100% right. You're going to have different modes of operating.
00:25:43
Speaker
different sunlight patterns, different things. And so this kind of takes me back to what we were just talking about luxuries to like, if you need a fuzzy blanket, like lean into that fuzzy blanket, don't resist those tools, right to help support you in what you're ultimately trying to achieve.
00:25:59
Speaker
This is super random, but as you're talking, the concept is Danish, I think, the hygge concept. And I don't know that I'm pronouncing it right. It looks like that, but it might be pronounced differently, but I have a book on it and it talks about like making your environment cozy because it's so cold in Denmark and dark and dark. And so this is what you're talking about, Nicole. And so when you said a fuzzy blanket, Shannon, I just keep one here. And even if I'm not using it, I think it's just the look of it.
00:26:29
Speaker
is creating this cozy environment for the wintertime. But I think that concept, Nicole, is what you're talking about, and I'll have to link to that book.
00:26:40
Speaker
The cozy is probably comforting to you, which provides security, which gives you your strength, your security, all those warm, fuzzy feelings to then be able to perform the way you need to perform in your business because you feel safe, secure, warm, cozy. You know what I mean? So many different tangents. Okay, so let's shift just a bit. Now, you shared this concept with us and you called it the backward journey, starting large and shrinking smaller.
00:27:09
Speaker
I don't know exactly what you're going to mean by that. Can you elaborate and talk to us about what you mean by that and how that impacts us as entrepreneurs? Yeah. Well, me personally, I started really big. Mal, Fuse Living started as a development company. We did ground up new construction developments in Denver, Colorado. Of course, those had a green twist to them, energy efficiencies, healthy materials, etc.
00:27:35
Speaker
But basically, I worked at an interior design firm out of school for just a couple of years. And then I had big lofty dreams. And at that time, my dad had recently sold his company. And he was like, on this thing about wanting to create a legacy. And so we found this piece of land in Denver, Colorado. And I was like, well, let's just buy the land. And no, he actually said it. Let's buy the land. Let's just build something instead of remodeling something.
00:27:59
Speaker
And so we started Vic. I was just a 23, 4, 5-year-old interior designer getting my feet wet. He had never done anything in the world of real estate or development. My mom wanted to also just remodel properties. And so we kind of just created this company together where we did new construction development.
00:28:20
Speaker
And we worked our way through four different projects and up into a multifamily condo project, which was 24,000 square feet in total. And so that's how my career started, was like just very large, very large, a lot of learning, a lot to handle, a lot of mentors along the way in that.
00:28:38
Speaker
But then since then, I did just get smaller and smaller and smaller. And so then I created the interior design firm because some of those development projects were longer. And Mal knows all about my journey through the design firm, which then kind of niched down into furniture and furniture studio. And now I got rid of that last year. And I've just niched down even smaller into this focusing really heavily on this psychology and neuroscience piece.
00:29:08
Speaker
That Mallory to answer your question was just like my career started really big. There was a lot of learning and then it's just come so niche down the funnel. It's been over a decade, 11, almost 12 years since Fuse Living was created. So it's been really interesting to start big and go small, which is opposite.
00:29:28
Speaker
I think that that also just informs how people can make changes though, right? Like often, I think if people are hearing this and they're hearing like, you know, and then they look around their environment and they're like, none of this is right. None of this is helping me. You don't have to move, right? You don't have to leave your house. Go smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. Start with something very, very tiny, you know, and realize that that can make a big difference.
00:29:56
Speaker
And I think giving yourself permission to continually change what you need is also speaking to that resilient environment of saying, what I need today is maybe different than what I needed last year. And that's okay.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah. And I love that you just said a resilient environment because it's like that internal environment. Now obviously is the niche down, but it's like I was able to do bigger things at that point in time. I'm not able to do big things right now for a lot of different reasons, you know what I mean? But it's yeah. And so it's like really connecting that internal environment with that external environment. And those should be in
00:30:37
Speaker
a mere reflection of each other in the physical, you know, all the sensory kind of way. Yes, yes. I feel like your environment should constantly remind you of where you want to be currently, right? Not where you used to be. I guess it could remind you of where you want to go, but I think the biggest thing is like, does it feel good to me right now? And that's, yeah, and that's important.
00:31:02
Speaker
It highlights the unique journey of the entrepreneur. It is kind of, like you said, backwards in a sense that we perceive it to be starting smaller and building bigger. But I distinctly remember Nicole many years ago now writing a blog post about intentionally not growing.
00:31:20
Speaker
you know, because it didn't feel right and it wasn't the goal for her even though, you know, capitalism is telling her to go bigger and make more money because she in theory could have. So I think it's just remembering to check in. But what I really liked about what you said is making sure that the exterior environment matches the internal kind of dialogue and what you're needing at the time and kind of like putting those outside pressures aside.
00:31:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it was really hard. I mean, it was actually every one of those decisions to kind of go smaller was a really hard, really big decision because you're so used to that narrative, that societal narrative and that business narrative. And it was, you know, I think this last little niche down was probably the longest I went of resisting it. And as soon as it happened, it was like, Oh God, I, you know, yes, thank goodness. You know what I mean?
00:32:11
Speaker
But yeah, it's really hard because you get really attached. And when you're an entrepreneur, you do get attached. You do become passionate. You do have lofty dreams and goals. And to then look inside and say, OK, well, now is actually not the right time for this.
00:32:26
Speaker
It's a really hard thing to do. Yeah. It is really hard. Yeah. Well, so I'm wondering, as I hear you guys talk about this, you both have kids. I think during pandemic times, especially when everyone just started working from home, that blew everybody's mind.
00:32:45
Speaker
Currently a lot of those people are still working from home more people right and so we may have entrepreneurs listing that also have a spouse working at home. And so how do you kind of coach people on. If there's two people in this space or four people in this space how does everyone get these little pieces that help them.
Creating Personal Zones in Shared Spaces
00:33:07
Speaker
You know is it like hey your room is your space and we're gonna make this yours my my room is my space or do you say like are there overlapping.
00:33:17
Speaker
circles where the family feels better this way. Yeah, all of the above. So I'm really big on zones, active zones, quiet zones, private zones, collective zones, things like that. And I'm also, I do not like the narrative that, oh, whatever she says goes and or whatever, you know, he writes the checks. That's what the decisions are like. No, thank you.
00:33:41
Speaker
I'm not all about that. I'm going to find out the needs of every person there, including the kids. Do you have a kid that has ADHD or sensory sensitivities? I want to know really who is in the house and how can we set everybody up for success there?
00:34:00
Speaker
in your, even if it's just a corner, it doesn't have to be a huge house. Like everybody can have a corner. Everybody has their own for autonomy. And then how does everybody come together in the collective? Yes, because I think that's a big piece of how like,
00:34:16
Speaker
And Mel, I keep referring to you because it's me and a dog here and he pretty much does what I want, but that's not true. I do what he wants. But you have found that sometimes it's really hard for you to work and focus when other people interact with your space in a way that doesn't help you.
00:34:35
Speaker
Right? Like, sometimes Mallory will just send me photos with no captions of just like an open cabinet. And she's just like, why? Why? You know, or just like stuff on the counter that's super random. And you're like, I don't even know how it got there. I don't know. Underwear were on the stairs one day. I just sent Nicole a picture. I just, you know? And so how do you deal with those like,
00:35:03
Speaker
those little things that pull you out of your mental sweet spot. It's really beautiful. I wasn't sure if you were going to talk there, Mal, but what's really beautiful is that because I take people through a really big discovery period, my hope and my goal too is to create that deeper understanding of pet peeves or nuances or what pisses you off. That's across the board.
00:35:32
Speaker
I just think if you can go through that discovery period, then as a family and as a collective, you'll have a little bit of a more better understanding. I wanted you to respond as this is more your world. But just from personal experience, I think partly acknowledging it's a season of my life. And when these kids are out of the house, I'm going to miss having little shoes and handprints, right? So it's not, it doesn't always come across
00:36:01
Speaker
that way I get so annoyed but then it's like just reflecting back okay this is just a season that I'm in right now. I think the other thing is there's just like a communication that has to happen so like I the kids know I prefer things to be tidy whatever in in one ear out the other but even with my husband
00:36:19
Speaker
having, he gets it. If I'm gone and I was just in Phoenix visiting Shannon and then I can't come back, they intentionally clean up. They live however they want, but they clean up because he knows it's important to me because if I come back and it's a mess, then I'll feel like why do I even go? Now I have to clean up.
00:36:39
Speaker
But if I didn't explain that to him, he wouldn't know. And it's same with I share a bedroom with him. And so how do we communicate, how that stays tidy in a way that it doesn't stress me out? So I think in common living areas, there's a communication that has to happen. And then there's boundaries.
00:36:58
Speaker
You guys can't see this listening, but they can see this is my office space. It is a loft. It does not have a door. And there's bedrooms on both sides, which means kids have to go back and forth. But the boundary is if you are in here playing, this is not a place where toys stay overnight. They can stay in your room overnight, but this place is clean when you leave every single time. And so communication and boundaries, I think, has to probably be part of the conversation, right?
00:37:27
Speaker
Okay, so I feel like this leads me to the opposite side, which is entrepreneurs who live alone. So this is my life, plus the dog. But sometimes, like you say, clearing clutter can be such a societal... This is the answer. The answer is less. Less stuff, less stuff everywhere. This is going to fix it.
00:37:50
Speaker
And you end up sometimes, I think people go too far that way, and they end up in an environment that feels really sterile, right? And it doesn't feel like you. So are there ways to kind of, if you're on the other end of the spectrum and you're like, I think maybe I'm too organized, like maybe this is too sterile and too clean, what are some little ways that you can add personality back to your space that makes it feel more homey again,
Balancing Stimulation and Relaxation
00:38:17
Speaker
right? If you've gone too far the other way.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, you're 100% right because there's the stimulation curve. So there's the overstimulation, which is what we mostly focused on in our conversation here. But then there is the understimulation. And when you're understimulated, you're going to have depression or down energy or whatnot. So like you definitely do have to be in the middle. Thank you for bringing this up because it is really important.
00:38:37
Speaker
And to that I would say like if you've been really effective on clearing away all of those threats, right? I put in quotes those threats to us that like ignite that kind of fear or nervous or whatever, then that gives you the opportunity to introduce the stimulation that does lift you up or create positivity within you from a pattern, a texture, you know, like you can put
00:39:01
Speaker
This bird on the wall makes me super happy, right? And so like, the rest of the wall is pretty clean, but like this bird is here, it lights me up, it makes me happy. It's colorful, textural, it's all the things, right? So you could do that with art. You can do that with a texture on the wall. You could do that with like, there's felt pads if you need some noise reduction that have different patterns in them now. Like there's so many different things you can do, but it's that the concept is that reintroduction.
00:39:28
Speaker
after you peel away all the threats, that reintroduction of the positive stimulation. I feel like some people get stuck and they forget to do the second part. Me included sometimes. Like there are spaces in my home where I'm literally thinking like, there's just nothing really interesting about it, you know? Like, yeah, you need that. Yeah. So I think it's an end that we've all been in, I think we've all been in homes or offices that just feel meh.
00:39:58
Speaker
Like maybe it's super trendy, right? It's trendy and beautiful technically using air quotes. And you're just like, I don't know. But it's not human. It's not human, exactly. It's not human. So and I think we underestimate the amount that that side also can take away from our creativity and just like coziness and yeah. You want that heart song of being human
00:40:27
Speaker
for yourself and just generally.
The Vision Behind HomeSelf NeuroDesign
00:40:30
Speaker
So talk to us a little bit more about home self now. How why did you create it for who you created it for the audience and then the reason for it? Yeah, because why because I found it super powerful and effective right being an entrepreneur being on a growth journey being in a
00:40:47
Speaker
phase of life that was totally transitioning and shifting both personally and professionally and it was like I was doing all the breathing I've gone to therapies I've done all the modalities you know and it's like well now what's next and what's next is holy smokes like my environment really matters
00:41:05
Speaker
And I have the ability to create the implementation tools and tactics, because that's all I've ever done, right? So that's sort of the why, because it's very much needed, I see, with entrepreneurs and people on their growth journey, and because I can, because I know all the tools to implement it, yeah.
00:41:27
Speaker
And so for people who are like, you know what? I'm running a small business. I've got expenses. I've got all the things. The principles that you're talking about are not necessarily huge financial investments, right? I just think we need to maybe pause in that and be like, this is not something where you need
00:41:46
Speaker
An interior design budget of $30,000. This is not right. We're talking about those little things that trigger your brain and those can be incredibly small. They can be inexpensive. They can just be little things that I mean, it's almost like bonus.
00:42:05
Speaker
They're like bonus points of your space that just automatically add to your energy and they make you feel better. It's not saying that everything needs to cost a million dollars. There may be a throw blanket that changes your life. There may be a heated sweatshirt that gives Mallory the will to live from December
00:42:28
Speaker
to May, which is winter in Canada. Yeah. And it's granting yourself that permission to give that to yourself, you know, because for me, like I've always needed that permission and that permission is understanding why it's needed, how it's effective. And so now I give myself so much more permission to
00:42:49
Speaker
buy those little tools or buy those little nuances where before it'd be like, oh, I don't really need that. I don't really need it. And then they go, hold on. No, I do actually need this. I need it. Right. Like, I think your environment is self-care is what you're saying to us.
00:43:03
Speaker
Right? And you wouldn't feel bad about, right? Everything is self-care. Everything needs to be self-care. And so this is also self-care. It's not an extravagance. This is usually the place where people spend the most of their time. I mean, it's the first thing. It's like, it's literally everything. Like, boom is ground zero, right? You wake up, you open your eyes, you're immediately seated with all of the senses. Like, make sure those are great when you wake up. Yep.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah, because it's our brains, and our consciousness affects everything. So it's so important. And I don't think we think about it. We just don't think about it. We kind of take it for granted it is what it is, but we can make these small changes and really affect our moods and how we feel. I've got a whole list of things I'm going to do to my house now. I know. I'm looking around and I'm already like, yeah, let's trigger some neuropathways. Let's do it.
00:44:01
Speaker
Okay, so to wrap us up then, we'll shift out of that thinking. And as an entrepreneur of many companies now, let's just nail down one piece of advice you wish you'd gotten maybe before you started that you could share with our listeners. So I tend to just jump in. I think the one piece of advice I really wish I would have gotten is
Planning and Measuring in Business
00:44:27
Speaker
double my planning time, probably triple my planning time. Measure twice. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then I think it's that simple. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great one, especially for those of us that like to start things all the time. I feel seen by you. Oh my gosh. Was there any final thoughts on this concept or home self that you want to share that we didn't really touch on?
00:44:56
Speaker
Uh, no, I think, I mean, we, we talked about a lot. There's no, no finality ever on this topic, but yeah, I think we covered a lot and generalized and got into some nitty-gritties. So.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insight on this with us. I think it gave us all a lot to think about. That wasn't really something kind of, you know, like it wasn't something on my mind for the wellbeing season until we talked and I was like, oh my gosh, we have to fit this in. It makes so much sense now. So thank you so much for sharing your insights with us. Thank you for, you know, being open to kind of educating us who don't really know anything about it and sharing your expertise. So I appreciate you being here.
00:45:35
Speaker
Thank you for your questions. Those were great. Yeah, awesome. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps us up. Shannon, thank you again for being here. We will see everybody here for season three next week. Thanks for listening. Hop over to UnboundBoss.com to join our community and leave us a voice memo. We absolutely love hearing from you. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, leave us an Apple review and share your favorite episodes with other women entrepreneurs. Talk to you soon.