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33. How to Get Paid What You're Worth with Kiri Mohan
7 Plays5 months ago
You’ve all heard it before, “time is money.” In this episode, guest Kiri Mohan, explains WHY!
Kiri, Founder of Corporate2Contract, helps women freelancers who have a background in the corporate world take their contractor business from surviving to thriving. She explains how your pricing directly relates to time management and vice versa.
Your dream actually CAN be your reality. There is a way to have a career, a flexible schedule, and get paid what you deserve. But it requires reframing your mindset around pricing, identifying what you spend your time on, and lots of focus. Tune in for lots of tips on how to do just that!
In this episode, you’ll learn how to:
- Set your pricing in relation to your time.
- Set tiered pricing for high attention clients.
- Accept hustle for a short period of time.
- Balance being self-employed with your personal life.
- Take your side hustle to full time.
For more inspiration, subscribe to Unbound Turnarounds on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
LINKS:
- Connect with Nicole
- Connect with Mallory
- Connect with Kiri: https://www.corporate2contract.com/
- Her Balanced Side Hustle Podcast: https://link.chtbl.com/BizUnbound
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Unbound Turnarounds
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Unbound Turnarounds, a podcast all about the challenges women business owners think about constantly, but rarely voice. We're Nicole and Mallory, entrepreneurs, friends, and co-founders of Business Unbound. Our mission is simple, make business feel better. And that starts with honest conversations about the ups, downs, and turnarounds of entrepreneurship.
00:00:26
Speaker
So whether you're just starting out or you've been your own boss for years, tune in for stories, insights, and strategies that actually make work work for life.
Season Three Overview: Time Management Tactics
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome back to season three of Unbound Turnarounds, everyone. Thanks for being here. In this season, we are getting into all different kinds of time management tactics. And today we're going to be covering some simple time management strategies.
00:00:54
Speaker
I'm going to go ahead and get our guests introduced. It's just me today. Nicole isn't with us. Here
Empowering Women Freelancers with Kiri Mohan
00:01:00
Speaker
we go. Kiri, welcome to the show. Kiri Mohan helps women freelancers who have a background in the corporate world take their contractor business from surviving to thriving.
00:01:10
Speaker
Her corporate to contract core and collective programs guide women growing their freelance businesses to set them up for success, earn an income over six figures, and get more time back in their days. Kiri knows there's a way to have a career, a flexible schedule, and get paid what you deserve, and her framework teaches you to do just that.
00:01:31
Speaker
When not working on her courses or leading women, she is actually podcasting as well on her own show called Her Balanced Hustle Podcast. She also enjoys drinking tea and reading books. So Kiri, thanks for being here. Welcome. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Happy to be here.
00:01:48
Speaker
Awesome. Okay. Well, let's get going
Transitioning from Side Hustle to Career
00:01:50
Speaker
then. We're going to just get into the conversation here and we're going to start off by talking about how to take a side hustle into a full-time career because oftentimes, you know, we're working so you can't dedicate fully to starting your side hustle and taking it full-time.
00:02:07
Speaker
So in the spirit of time management, what are some ways that you guide people, full-time inspiring entrepreneur people to do just that and take their side hustle to be full-time?
00:02:21
Speaker
Yeah, it really depends on their job a lot of times too. Like there was one woman who had an intense role where she would be kind of two weeks on, two weeks off, but she had a full-time salary. Most people definitely they work like the standard nine to five. I do have some people who come to me who are stay-at-home moms and they left their career, right? And they want to bring in a little bit extra income then find out they love it and they want to make as much money as possible while still working full-time.
00:02:49
Speaker
I think in terms of if you are working any kind of job, you need to have a schedule and work to your strengths, right?
Crafting a Clear Schedule to Avoid Overwhelm
00:02:59
Speaker
So the first coaching lesson we do is always when's your zone of genius time?
00:03:06
Speaker
And when we look, when we go a little further out into the coaching, we create a marketing schedule. So that will go into like, okay, maybe Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday morning, you are scheduling posts for that day on your social media platform of choice. And then on Mondays, maybe you're applying to jobs on freelancer marketplaces. On Tuesdays, maybe you're doing direct outreach via emails or
00:03:31
Speaker
cold messages or whatever it is, maybe Wednesdays, you're actually commenting on people's posts and trying to engage them so that they're responding back to you and getting to know you and maybe possibly your business. So it's all about, at least for my students, setting a schedule up because without that clear schedule, you just think, oh my gosh, there's so much to do. I have to post on social media and I think I want to go on some freelancer marketplaces. Oh, and then I should look at like maybe ideal
00:03:59
Speaker
clients. It's just so much. It's not broken out. That's why most people stumble because there's too much and they don't know how to break it down into manageable tasks. My first advice is always, when do you work best?
00:04:16
Speaker
In the morning, you're a morning person. Use that for your zone of genius time. Use that for the things that you're maybe like a little afraid of or putting off, if that's cold messages, which a lot of people are kind of scared of. You know, like maybe that's what you do in the morning. So then you can just shut your laptop and you can go to work and you can forget about it and see if someone responds, right? And you have that motivation. But if you're someone who's like a night person, let's harness that. Like what are, what do you, what is your best work and when do you feel alive? And if you're a night person, let's, let's focus on those at night.
00:04:44
Speaker
So it's a little bit play into your personality and also just making sure we have a schedule where everything is manageable.
00:04:49
Speaker
Perfect, okay, around your, you're scheduling that around your nine to five or your day job. And the focus on marketing is because you're trying to grow to more clients. I mean, maybe just starting out or just to grow it to more so that you can then tip into full-time eventually. Yes, because if it's a side hustle, no matter what, you have to make an income. So there has to be a schedule there like how are you going to get those clients? And even if you have one, two clients, if that's not reaching the goal,
00:05:18
Speaker
the income goal that you want, then you need to figure out you have to keep marketing. You have
Quitting a Full-Time Job for a Side Hustle
00:05:24
Speaker
to continue that work. Now, there is a point where if you have a side hustle and you have too many clients and it's really strapping you, then you have to make a decision if you're going to go full-time with your side hustle and create an actual business with it, or if you're going to keep it a side hustle.
00:05:38
Speaker
That's a good problem to have. It's a scary place to be. That's exactly where I was. I do remember it very clearly because when you first quit, you obviously aren't full-time yet. You've had momentum and you're probably part-time-ish, so it's a real leap of faith.
00:05:58
Speaker
But I think if you have that momentum and then I think it comes back to that strategy, if then you have the strategy in place that you've seen start working, you know you can trust that you'll be able to get to full time. And usually, I think it probably happens fairly quickly. You have all this time all of a sudden, yeah, you can really start hustling, get out there. And I know people don't like the word hustle that much anymore. It's kind of like we're in an anti-hustle culture. But I like to use it because
00:06:27
Speaker
Well, how else are you going to get business? Like you have to work for it. Like there's no, I mean, sure we don't have to use the word hustle if you don't want to, but you have to work for it.
00:06:36
Speaker
I agree. Yes, we can find another word, but it's grind, it's grit. It's also just a season. You're not preaching to do that forever. It's a short burst of time and then there should be recovery and rest, you know, later on, right? So I mean, yeah, that's how life works, whether you like the word or not, right? Okay, but then let's talk about once you get into full-time entrepreneurship, right? So how do you coach people then to find the balance between
00:07:04
Speaker
being self-employed and a personal life? Or in your perspective, is that even real? Is that a myth? Are they just the same thing? What's your thoughts on that?
Work-Life Balance Challenges for Entrepreneurs
00:07:15
Speaker
Most people find that they overwork once they get to the full time because there's no clear separation anymore. When you had a job, it was like you went to the physical location or even if you worked from home, that was that and then you had off hours and even if you decide to work on those off hours, very distinctly off hours.
00:07:36
Speaker
When you are full-time entrepreneur, they just bleed into each other. So what I teach a lot of students that come to me is we look at their
00:07:47
Speaker
entire business? How have they set up their contracts? How have they set up their payment structure? Is it still hourly? Is it packages? Is it project-based? And how are they pricing themselves within that? And what does their contract say? So a lot of what I teach my students is if you want to get off that constant working hamster wheel,
00:08:14
Speaker
that happens when you're an entrepreneur because you just start getting clients and it's a lot of work and you have these red flag clients that demand too much. Everyone's on this even playing field. How do you take them off?
00:08:26
Speaker
I teach them that all comes around to availability and turnaround time. When you can base your pricing off of those two things, you can move away from hourly. It's more like, how available does the client need you? Do they need lots of calls? Do they require you to check in on this project every single day and give them updates? Or are they more a client?
00:08:46
Speaker
let's take a website designer for example do they need this website done in two weeks and they want to have multiple check ins and understand and you need to use their project management system which you're not used to using and then you need to have an every three days call right like is that something because that's going to be that takes turnaround time into
00:09:03
Speaker
that takes your availability into accountants, so you're going to charge them higher. And then I'll often teach my students to tier their pricing because our culture is one that is, unless it's product-based, our culture just revolves around options and pricing now. I mean, look at Netflix, look at Dropbox, look at, like,
00:09:23
Speaker
So many things out there that you say, I don't want to pay that much. Okay, maybe I'll pay this much. And so I teach them like you can do that too with your business. And then maybe that lowest package is actually a lot like no checking calls at all. And they just trust you to get that website done within two months, right? And everything is via email and you only work on it.
00:09:43
Speaker
at night or whenever you're free, right? Like that is how I teach them so that they are then able to structure their life around their business so that they don't have to be always on call because too many times people come in and every client is like, I don't know, 1500, 2000, but they're all demanding different things of you.
Effective Pricing Strategies for Freelancers
00:10:04
Speaker
How do you level that out? And this is what, that's the core of what I teach them so that they can have that personal life.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah. And but you're taking it and you're, you're working with these clients one on one. So it's unique, like they're everybody's unique situation. You're like their mentor, you're kind of their guide, you're also their brainstormer. And you guys are figuring it out one on one for their business of how to do that. And I do have group coaching. And I do that in my group coaching as well. So like a lot of my cohorts have different freelancers in there. And there's always, always a way to come back to availability or turnaround time or both.
00:10:39
Speaker
and figure out how to structure your pricing. Now, it's one thing to structure your pricing. There's another to be confident on the call and make sure you are able to tell them, you know, I don't do hourly and this is why. And so that's another section in and of itself. But that's how I teach people to move away, to get more money and to have that personal life as well, set up how you want.
00:11:01
Speaker
I mean, I know. I do want to get into that a little. Do you think that's a woman thing, the money conversation? I mean, I'm curious because do men have a hard time being like, this is how much I'm worth and this is what I'm doing? Maybe some. I'm generalizing here. But I think it maybe happens more to women, right? Why can't we confidently go on and say that? Why is it so icky?
00:11:25
Speaker
It is hard and there's a lot of practice that goes into it. So I do occasionally take on male clients and my private coaching. And oftentimes I don't see the struggle as much with the sales calls. I see it more on like, but what should I include in this rate? And what should I, like, it's more like the adjustment of the mindset, which happens to everyone. That's more like universal to the genders. But with women, it's definitely like,
00:11:53
Speaker
I kind of broke down on the sales call when they said, but how many hours? But how many hours? And they kept pushing me. And I just kind of said, no, it's probably like 25. And then they did the calculations. And they're like, oh, but that's $90 an hour. And I'm like, oh. Yeah.
00:12:08
Speaker
And you don't want to say that because you're not hourly anymore. Yes. Right. Right. Right. It's a real, really difficult. And I think there, maybe there is something to do with women, probably specifically in that and being less confident about that. Social, I mean, things that have been put on the culture for years and years and years before, right? Before we were, any of us were even alive and like our grandmas and,
00:12:33
Speaker
you know, that they couldn't have their own money and their own credit cards and buy their own property. Like it's probably just taking a while to kind of come out of the culture or something. I'm wondering, there's probably experts on this topic that actually know. I was listening to the podcast School of Greatness the other day with Lewis Howes.
00:12:51
Speaker
famous podcast, and he was interviewing someone who has lost many, many friends because she talks openly about how she makes millions. And she said, I don't understand. There's such stigma around it. I'm trying to break that stigma. And she said, you know, we can talk about, like, if I lost 50 pounds, everyone be like, oh, great, let's celebrate your success. You lost 50 pounds. There's like, that is totally fine. I gained 50 million. Oh, no. Like, she's like, it's kind of the same thing. I still want you celebrating with me, but there's this cultural no-no around it.
00:13:20
Speaker
And that got me thinking a lot, because I was like, oh yeah, you're right. So interesting, yeah. But back to the tactic, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. So I think a lot of times, kind of in our business too, I feel like people are undercharging. Do you happen to see that a lot?
Setting Boundaries and Pricing for Success
00:13:38
Speaker
And so because they're undercharging in the spirit of this being a time management, then it's like it doesn't work with how much time they have to spend to get the same amount of money.
00:13:49
Speaker
It's almost like for me what i see is they might be about pretty good at industry rates for what their industry is or not over the top or charging too low but there. In a way under charging because they're allowing the client to just.
00:14:07
Speaker
wreak havoc on their lives. The clients are asking too much. So yes, I guess they are intercharging. Since because everyone's on a level playing field, I will use a client example right now. I had a coaching call this morning. Let's say she was just charging $100 an hour for an easy number. She was charging $100 an hour. And yet, the clients were asking so much of her. And she had her phone on her all the time. And she was constantly replying to text messages.
00:14:37
Speaker
Don't you think that should be a higher rate than someone who comes to you who's super chill and easy and like don't you think you should be charging more for your time over a hundred like 200 an hour double that because you can't like leave your house so you wanted to be able to leave your house with a kid she's two young kids and she's like felt like she had to carry her laptop with her everywhere and I'm like you're basically working a job again full time for this one site with your kid at home yeah
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, because if you are, if you're if you're saying you're available for like all hours, then you're basically you should be that's like you should be getting paid a salary because you're available all the time. But these people like don't like some of the people who come to me are people who were laid off from corporate. So they never had this, like entrepreneurial mindset of even how to figure this out. It was just like, Oh, shoot, I'm put into this position. And I need to figure out how the heck do I make this work?
00:15:29
Speaker
how and they don't know that so they just work with how they've always been taught to work which is all the time and carry their laptop around with them everywhere. Yeah and I think in the beginning it's especially hard because you want to do good work and you want them to like you and you want them to refer you but I almost think having the boundaries laid out gains you more respect and it also shows them how like to lead by example
00:15:52
Speaker
but maybe they don't have to be that way too. And I mean, I did struggle with this in the beginning, kind of over-delivering, or you know, you've heard the word scope, creep, right? And so this concept, kind of like a tiered pricing model, I love this. So you're basically saying those high touch clients are like a white glove, like you're just like, everything is done for you, I'm available, and you know, it'll be short term, you probably wouldn't want to take someone on like that long term.
00:16:19
Speaker
Or you only take a certain amount on it. Because there are some VAs I work with who are social media managers or something like that. And they take these clients off for long term. So I'm like, you maybe think about your energy. Maybe you can only take two, three on at that time. So let's price them super high. Then they're going to be really extracting so much from you. I tell them to think about client has negative comments. Someone's trolling them in their social media. And they want you to respond right away
00:16:47
Speaker
What do you do? That's going to be your time when you're at the playground and you need to be focused on that. What is that worth to you? Right. And then how do you advise people in the beginning? Because maybe you don't know them really. Are you just trying to get a read on what their personality is and what they're asking for during the sales call? Or do you change it later on if they're kind of going over?
00:17:11
Speaker
client facing not not my coaching clients like if I'm right you're coaching your clients yeah how do they know what tier to put them in or how do you coach them on figuring that out well the first thing we talk about with pricing and this is where I think I'm a little different from coaches I always go into pricing first that's one of the first things we go into other than like zona genius and like schedules and all that it's like
00:17:34
Speaker
What is what you would be happy with at a minimum making a month? Then when we have that, their homework is, they have to clearly lay out the scope. We go through everything. I'm like, okay, so we're looking at your clients right now. What do you offer them? What do you give them? I write it down. They're tracking every single thing. Are they allowed to text you? Yes or no. Do they text you anyway? Are they boxer-ing? Do they expect you to respond every day?
00:17:58
Speaker
And then we're like, OK, this is your highest package. So they break out every single thing for me so that then they know those kind of questions to ask when they're on a client call. Another aspect I do tell them to do is to create a really good intake form on your web page. Because the more information you have, the more you're able to, A, kind of get an idea of how much money they have through certain questions like, do you have team? Do you already pay for people on your team?
00:18:26
Speaker
Do you have a physical law office location? Stuff like that shows that maybe they have a little bit more income than others and then you're not going into this call completely blind. Have you worked with this freelancer before? How was your experience? You get this idea and then you go into it a little bit more armed and then you know exactly like you can ask them those questions of how soon do you need this website? Are you expecting me to work on your logos and colors as well or do you already have copy? Do you need help with all these questions?
00:18:56
Speaker
will be already laid out because you have that in the top tier and you know what that entails. Brilliant. That's lovely. Okay. That's great.
UnboundBoss Resources for Entrepreneurs
00:19:04
Speaker
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00:19:13
Speaker
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Avoiding Social Media and Website Perfectionism
00:19:42
Speaker
Let's switch gears just a tiny bit here. Where do you see your clients are wasting time? What are the big time wasters and quotes that you see folks are doing, entrepreneur folks are doing? Yeah, being on too many social media platforms stretched thin on their marketing is a big one. I say at a minimum, one social media platform, one lead magnet or newsletter.
00:20:06
Speaker
start there, then let's increase. I make them create a weekly schedule and a monthly schedule. Monthly is for if there's a networking event in person coming up that you think you can make and you want to do that or a summit coming up or something like that, virtual, something like that.
00:20:21
Speaker
So social media platforms, for sure. And then another one is the website. If they're not website people in general, you can get really, and you probably know I've done it, like you can get really hung up on trying to make your website perfect. And because it's a big part of our engagement, I guess, of our coaching sessions, because I teach them a framework of
00:20:43
Speaker
matching, I call it a reflection framework, but you match your website to look like what your ideal client is because people gravitate towards what they're familiar with. So sometimes people have to revamp their entire website and they can't really relate to the little details. Like, I wanted this to expand up and down and then do I have enough buttons? And it's just like done is better than perfect. Let's just get it out there. So I say social media.
00:21:06
Speaker
marketing, spreading themselves too thin, wasting a lot of time, and then also the website. Yeah, it's so funny too because the thing about the website is you can go in and you can tweak it like forever and ever and ever, right? Like it could literally never be perfect and you would never have it.
00:21:25
Speaker
So you can put it up. It might not be a hundred percent perfect. And then in two weeks you're like, Oh, I think I want to change this one word. Then go change that one word. Like it changes instantly, right? I know we do get hung up on that. I think it's cause it's your brand reputation. It's working for you all the time. But like you said, just getting it out. And then it's funny to think about like my first website was, was really ugly, right? Like, I mean, I can remember it. And then you'll, you know,
00:21:55
Speaker
When you're ready, you'll rebrand and you'll have a new site or you'll switch and it'll evolve with your business. I love that. Just get it out. It's not that deep, guys.
Breaking Down Intimidating Tasks
00:22:10
Speaker
What are some tactics or things that you guide people on of how to maybe be more effective in their time management? I mean, we've talked a lot about this, but are there any other tactics or strategies that you specifically bring up often? Well, I mentioned this off air, but like when something intimidates you, set a time limit. Don't go in and just say like, I'm going to completely redo my webpage.
00:22:37
Speaker
For the record, I did this once. I got knee surgery and my husband took the kid somewhere overnight to the lake house or something with his parents. And I was like, great, I'm going to redo my webpage, like the copy, right? And make sure it more aligns with my ideal clients. It's going to take me like three hours. It took me nine. It took me nine hours. Thankfully, because I had surgery, I was kind of like, couldn't do that much flexibility and movement.
00:23:04
Speaker
But nine hours, so when I think about my current webpage, actually, the copy needs to be updated quite a bit, because it's been a while. I think about it and I go, oh my God, it took me nine hours last time, I don't know. And then I think, okay, let's do it in 30-minute chunks. We're going to do it 30-minute chunks bit by bit by bit. And that's how we're going to work on it.
00:23:25
Speaker
And that makes it so much more manageable. And I actually learned this through my podcast, my own podcast, from people who I asked that question, like, how do you manage your time effectively when you've got like juggling kids or a personal life that's very dynamic and someone, a lot of people say focus.
00:23:43
Speaker
And the other one is break it into chunks. Like completely map out your day or just use a timer and make sure you're doing that otherwise, like this way you're still moving the needle forward, but you're not getting completely invested and getting frustrated and getting intimidated and not wanting to come back to it.
00:24:00
Speaker
And I find usually, I feel the exact same way, by the way, but I find once I do that first little bit, I just have to start and then it feels more manageable. So it's like, okay, I'm just going to do that first 30 minutes. And tomorrow, it's like I'm almost getting excited then to work on the next 30 minutes and the next because it's just starting seems hard. So if you can get over that hump.
00:24:21
Speaker
just get it going. Usually your mindset shifts a little bit, right?
Overcoming Perfectionism in Entrepreneurship
00:24:26
Speaker
Absolutely. I had to do these slides for a summit, a virtual summit that's coming up. And it's a new thing that I haven't done before. And I was like, God, I don't know. I had the notes written out, but I was like, I don't want to do these slides. I don't know. And then as I got started, I was like, Oh, I know the format it's going to be. It's going to be each section is going to be these four formats. And he was like, Oh, this weight was lifted. And just because I had gotten started, it became clearer. And it was just so much better.
00:24:51
Speaker
And it was probably fun then. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if I'd say fun. Still not fun. It was not as intimidating. It didn't feel like a black cloud, I'll say that. Yeah, no, it's totally true. Let's talk about those people then who maybe are perfectionists. So maybe that's the people that have to have the website exactly right. Or maybe it's not related to the website. Maybe it's just they have a tendency to be a perfectionist.
00:25:20
Speaker
And we've talked about this in some other episodes too, that, you know, it's in people say, you know, I'm a recovering perfectionist because it's kind of has a negative connotation now, right? Do you see that in any of your clients? And do you ever coach around that topic?
00:25:36
Speaker
Occasionally, there's that person that we will have this section of writing out social media posts. I have people go study competitors or not even competitors. People they admire in that social media field. What are they doing? What's working? Let's work on some posts. And they'll do it, and they'll do the post, but they don't want to hit post.
00:25:57
Speaker
You know, that's the hard part, like the post. And it's usually just like this fear of like, ridiculous, right? Like when it comes down to it, perfectionism is like this fear that someone's going to find it and be like, it's not perfect. It's not everything it should be. That is so rare. Like, and so we talked through, what are the worst case scenarios? If someone comes on your webpage and they're like, wow, this is really ugly, what do you think is going to happen?
00:26:22
Speaker
They're like, oh, they're going to send me the forum on my website, or they're going to find me an email, and they're going to tell me. I'm like, OK, fair. And what are you going to do? What's going to happen to you? They're like, oh, I'm going to be really upset. What's going to happen to your business? Nothing. Right, right. But the social media is a little bit harder, because they're like, well, what if my friends see it, or what if they? They're like, people are going to say, and I'm like, what's the worst that can happen? And we go through that again, and I'm like, you can delete it.
00:26:47
Speaker
So I actually do handhold those people and we go post their first one together.
00:26:54
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm watching you. Let's share the screen. Let's do it. Let's post it. And they get really nervous. They're like, oh. But I'm like, look, there's no typos. It's full of great information. And you can always tweak as you go along. And so there's a little bit of hand holding. There's a little bit like, let's walk through the worst. What's the worst that can happen? Which I actually learned from my psychologist friend. She was like, I was talking about my fears of kids and growing up. And what if this? What if that? And she's like, OK, let's just talk through this. What's the worst that can happen? And then what? And then what? And then what? And she kept saying that. So now I do that in my coaching. And then what? And then what? And then you find out.
00:27:24
Speaker
I guess I'd survive and everything would be okay. Because we make it worse in our heads. There's a stoic practice around this. It's a Latin phrase. It's because we do. We catastrophize and we make it so much worse and then it's like you actually do that exercise. I think it can be really helpful to be like it really won't be that bad.
00:27:48
Speaker
The worst that I always tell people to watch out for is the only way you'll get roasted online is like, did you post something racist? Did you post something that's just completely narrow-minded? Most of the time in business, no, that's not going to happen with your business posts. If you're super hyper aware of that, you're going to be OK. Yeah.
00:28:09
Speaker
I used to feel that way sending a newsletter. I remember that feeling. And MailChimp actually exasperates it a little bit like, oh, are you sure? And then they make a big deal as soon as you hit send with their graphics and stuff. I'm wondering as you're talking, I'm wondering if there's something
00:28:26
Speaker
with the perfectionism so there's something about being seen or being heard maybe in your messaging that i'm wondering if we're struggling with that if we're nervous about that maybe just the first few times right if they're not used to putting content out.
00:28:42
Speaker
It's it's people pleasing. Maybe there's some there's fear of judgment in there. Like there's a lot Underneath there like it's not just you know, I have to have it. Perfect. Why do you have to have it? Perfect? There's probably a lot of psychology psychological things that they're probably working through and the culture we grow up in right now the algorithm favors people who get lots of posts and lots of engagement and So all of a sudden you're like well if I don't get any I'm not good enough
00:29:11
Speaker
It wasn't perfect enough. Maybe that's why. And I got to work on that. And so I think that is a very difficult thing. And I struggle with that too, to be honest. My LinkedIn platform is my most active. I get a lot of engagement on there, but sometimes I will post something and it's crickets. And then I'm like, well, why was it crickets? Oh my gosh. Why isn't anyone responding to this? It was such a good post. I worked so hard on it. And then it's like,
00:29:34
Speaker
There's a difference between that's going over the line of chill, it's just one post, but there's also stuff you can learn from it. Whenever I have something that doesn't do well, a post that doesn't do well, I'm always like, what was the topic? Maybe I switched the topic to another day. Maybe it's the way I wrote it. Maybe it wasn't captivating enough.
00:29:53
Speaker
right? Maybe there wasn't enough of a story. So there's also learning from that. Or yeah, the time of day, right? Or you weren't engaging. And so I know LinkedIn is like likes you to engage around the time you post. I mean, everyone, I mean, every social media platform is like, it likes you to engage, and then it'll help your posts. Right. So like, it could be, it could have been nothing to do with that post, right? But we do, we tie our worth.
00:30:18
Speaker
And that is, I mean, that goes beyond, that goes into personal life too. And why I think it's so hard, like social media is so rough on like younger kids and teenage, especially teenage girls really struggle. I think I've seen some research around that. And I think it is because there is some worth tied to how you perform on these platforms.
00:30:38
Speaker
Oh, I struggle with it. I'm 37 and I struggle with it. Like I said, there are times when I post on LinkedIn and I think like when it doesn't do well, I'm like, Oh man. And I get so down and it's like, come on. You know better. I know. I mean, but it's a natural, you can't shame yourself. It's just a natural response. It's a short term high though. That's the thing.
Scaling Businesses Without Sacrificing Well-Being
00:31:00
Speaker
And that's what they're trying to teach kids. Like you're just, you're kind of doing it for that short high more than anything else.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, like a little dopamine increase. Yeah, but then you get, right, that's how dopamine works, then you want more and more and more. Oh man, well, we should probably not go down that rabbit on social media and how it's bad for all of us and also good for all of us, right?
00:31:24
Speaker
Good for our business, bad for our mental health. Yes, exactly. Let's talk about your podcast. So it's really about helping women entrepreneurs scale their business to make the money they deserve. And it's specifically called out without sacrificing their well-being in the meantime. So what have been some of those takeaways that you've got yourself from doing your podcast?
00:31:47
Speaker
One of the biggest ones is for scaling your business, two things come up constantly. One is we've lost the art of focusing. That seems to be a common theme with the woman who has scaled their business, 500,000, a million, over a million. They focus. When they need to get something done, they shut down everything and they focus on that one project. Like when I did my webpage and I couldn't move.
00:32:12
Speaker
And all I did was work on that. They learned the art of focusing and there's different ways that each of them do it. Some of them do the time management. Some of them have a planner that lists the top few things they have to get done that day. There's different ways that they do it, but that seems to be a common theme along with
00:32:29
Speaker
In order to scale and keep somewhat of a personal life, you need to hire out. You need to have a team. That comes up over and over and over again. Because you will cap out, you will plateau, and you will have no life because all you're doing is working and you might be making a lot of money, but you're not actually having the life that you want in your life. You're thinking about your business all the time. So by hiring, then you're able to scale and get some of your life back as much as possible, which is a whole
00:32:59
Speaker
topic of issues in and of itself because hiring is really hard. That's another thing that they talk about. Hiring is really hard, but if you can do it right, that is one of the ways. I think those two things and something I always want to maybe bring up on my webpage too, but it just seems to be a common thread, is learn to focus, stop checking all your million tabs, stop doing your phone calls and texting, figure out how to focus for you, and then also hire a team.
Post-COVID Focus on Mental Well-Being in Business
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, because we're not here just to make a bunch of money and burn out and overwhelm and then you have to stop, you know, you want longevity. And then what is the point of making the money if you can't enjoy your life, right? So it's kind of like you really have to make it work for you.
00:33:43
Speaker
And I know burnout is a real thing and overwhelm. And I do think that obviously support is huge. I don't think you can, you know, it's like raising a baby takes a village, raising a business takes a village, right? But on top of that, I think the focus is really becoming a topical conversation lately. And I see it a lot in the corporate space.
00:34:06
Speaker
But if we take that mindset and we move it into the entrepreneur world, there is a shift. And I think it's kind of, it feels to me like it's been mostly post-COVID, where we're really focusing more, and it needs to be even more, but it's taken too long even to get to this point on some of that mental well-being.
00:34:26
Speaker
because before it's like corporate and hustle culture, right? But I think some corporations are starting to shift. And so in the entrepreneur space, hopefully we can do that too, where the mindset and the wellness becomes the priority instead of the hustle. I'm hoping that's shifting. Have you seen that starting to shift in your world too? I have. And I struggle a little bit with the content because I agree it's important
00:34:53
Speaker
But a lot of times, the season that you're in might be, I think you were talking about that hustle season has to happen if you want to get to the point where you are floating.
00:35:08
Speaker
And then sometimes you're like me and you get your ideal life and everything you wish for and you're like, I guess I'll just go and start another business and diversify my income. Then you have like other issues. But I do think like I've seen people, I know people doing a four day work week. I myself,
00:35:24
Speaker
Since i got to the point i wanted to my business i've only worked three days a week i don't work wednesday friday's i have my toddler home with me i'm interested to see what happens when he starts going to school more will i fall back into working everyday probably but i love my friday's off. Like i just love not working friday's most relaxing awesome thing.
00:35:46
Speaker
So I'll have to see if that still sticks around. But I do see that shift like with the four day work week with people, you know, I mean, when I started in the workforce, there was that unlimited PTO, but people didn't often take it. And I see like there's more of a push now. I'm seeing sabbaticals, like seven year sabbaticals where employees or five years or whatever it is, employees will get anywhere like a month or two off and just like,
00:36:07
Speaker
They have to take four or five consecutive weeks, which is to me so wonderful. What a great way to recognize your loyal employees to say, take off this time and people are traveling and just getting that time to unplug for that long, which is like a staple in Europe, but we don't have.
00:36:29
Speaker
So, so powerful, I think, and a powerful message to employees. Like, you've been here long enough. It's so much better than like a little trophy saying like, seven years, congrats, right? Like, now get back to work. Yeah. Or like a gift card. I was in a company once where they gave like a hundred dollar gift card if you made it to five years. Like, I would much rather four to five weeks of paid vacation.
00:36:53
Speaker
I mean, and that's kind of the lesson we can take from it. If we're creating our own lifestyles in the entrepreneur space, how can we take that? And I know it's hard because then if you're not working, you might not make money. And so, you know, you have to finesse it, but how can you take those concepts and put them in to your entrepreneur life so that you avoid that burnout? Because you have to watch out for yourself. You're the only one at that point, right?
00:37:15
Speaker
I did do it somewhat. I did an experiment a few years ago where I went, we rented a beach house for a month.
Success Story: Transforming Time Management and Strategy
00:37:22
Speaker
It was like post pandemic. And that was my first time really hiring when I was a freelancer and hiring and getting people to cover my clients. And it was only a month. So if my clients didn't like that person, it was no big deal because after the month was over, I was back. And then obviously when I had my maternity leave, that was a little bit different because I had my coaching and I had my freelancing business. And that was like a little harder and that did not work out as well because hiring is hard.
00:37:46
Speaker
But it is possible, I think, if you hire out in your Automate and your Streamlane.
00:37:52
Speaker
If everyone knows what they're doing and there's SOPs and video tutorials, you can do it. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, we're talking about sabbaticals and maternity leaves in the season because it relates to how you manage time, for sure. Do you have any success stories of a woman entrepreneur who's kind of transformed her time management approach and reaped the rewards from that? Obviously, keeping things confidential. Anybody coming to mind?
00:38:21
Speaker
The first person I think of is this like event planner that I didn't know much about the industry. I suffered a little bit of imposter syndrome when she came to me. She's like, you know, event planning and I like to do this virtually. I was like, okay, how do you even do that virtually? But I did some research and I was like, okay, this can be possible. And we really got
00:38:44
Speaker
What was good about her was she was kind of a blank slate. So she got to start her business off correctly from the beginning. It's a lot harder in some ways when you've already been like attracting clients with your method, even if they're low paying clients, and then all of a sudden you're like have to move into like confidently saying like, here's my pricing and it has nothing to do with hours. Like she was a blank slate. So it was nice to like go through with her.
00:39:09
Speaker
and be like, okay, how often do you think people will need when they come to your city? How soon will they need? What we did was we positioned her as the business that if you are trying to plan something from a different city, like a company meeting, everyone's flying into
00:39:23
Speaker
I don't know, wherever, Indiana, Indianapolis, I pull that out of my head. They're going into Indianapolis, right? And they can't afford to always be there. You have someone on the ground who can scope these locations for you, who can help you. And then how quickly is the event? Because a lot of times people, if they contact you and there's only two months to spare, oh, shoot, that's going to cost more. But we basically did the whole tiered pricing. We did the availability and turnaround.
00:39:50
Speaker
time and the marketing, making sure she was more of a person that we made sure she went to local events because that was big for her for getting the people on the ground as well in the local area. But it was really, really interesting. Gosh, she was able to quit her full-time role. I want to say within five or six months after we started working together,
00:40:15
Speaker
She was making less, but it was okay because she knew that she had people on deck and that she kind of had an idea of the industry and like when more events would be needed and stuff. So she did corporate events. She stayed away from weddings, which I mean, normally, I mean, if you do quit your full time, it takes you a while to get back up to that. I mean, I think that is a normal situation. I was making 20,000 less when I quit and I,
00:40:43
Speaker
within a year. I think I was able to make like 50,000 or something because I had all that time again. More. That's incredible. Yeah. Okay. So this is about you. Question for you. If you, if you got to spend more time in your business on just one thing, what would you prioritize? Right now I need to redo my webpage copy. It's, it's one of those things I'd like to,
00:41:14
Speaker
in an ideal world if webpage copy wasn't it?
00:41:17
Speaker
Hire someone who is super good at funnels and automations and learn how to get people to buy from the upsells of my newsletters and have a few different ones that I can experiment with and have someone else do that for me and they teach me. I have a mindset thing around automations and funnels. I have some, but I've had people come in and be like, you're trying to do too much here. This is why you're not upselling.
00:41:45
Speaker
So I think that's something that like in an ideal world, it's what I would love to just like have money to spend on and have someone else just completely revamp that. Oh, totally. I mean, there are people who are experts in it for sure. Cause it's its own art form, but that is, I totally agree. That's a fun one. Okay. So then as our, that wasn't even my fun closer. Here's your fun closer. What is one piece of advice you wish you had gotten before you started your business?
00:42:15
Speaker
create that newsletter, create that lead magnet. And I wish someone in that advice gave me exactly what that lead magnet should be. And then, so I didn't have to think of it on my own because I, that's my biggest regret. I did see how it would apply to my freelance business and I couldn't figure out like a good one. And the one I had was so lame and I kept it up forever. Cause I was like, Oh no, what am I going to do with this? And I just don't think I understand newsletter, understood newsletter strategy.
00:42:46
Speaker
and how important it was. And I think when I had months where people were leaving or clients where there was shakiness in the business, having a newsletter to be able to be like, Hey, you want to work with me? I've got, you can get 50% off the first month or something like that. Like that would have been really cool. Yeah. And so you think because it was growing your email list, like in the beginning, I wish someone would have said an email list is more important than you know. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
For sure. Actually, people did. And I just was like, but I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do for mine. I just wish someone had been like, here's what it is. Here's how it works. And clearly laid it out. Because I think when I was on forums and talking to people online, it just wasn't specific enough for my business to find someone who knew my business inside out was like, this is what you should do. Yeah.
00:43:33
Speaker
I think Amy Porterfield teaches that. Yeah, she does. Yeah. About the importance of an email list, which, you know, in her mind, and I can see, I can see why an email list is even more important than your social media following because it's yours. It can't just go away if something happened, right? Or you get locked out or your account goes away or the platform goes away. I don't know. So yeah, that's a good one. We do need to tell the newbie entrepreneurs, you got to start your email list right away.
00:44:03
Speaker
Oh gosh, mine is like pitiful compared to what it could be if I had started so much earlier. Okay, well thanks for being here. Is there anything else that popped into your head that you just have to share with the audience before we go or do you think we covered it?
00:44:17
Speaker
No, I think we covered it. If you want to listen to my podcast, it's called Her Balanced Hustle. It's tongue in cheek with the hustle. And you should definitely listen to it if you're looking to scale your business and learn from other women entrepreneurs. How do they manage their personal life and scale it? What advice do they have for women entrepreneurs? And you can find me at corporate2contract.com, the number two. And hopefully my website copy will look amazing by then.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see. Also, all of that is going to be in the show notes, but everybody should just hop over to your podcast right now and give it a follow and check it out. And Curie, thank you again for being here. It was so great to have this chat with you. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. I appreciate you, Mallory. All right. Well, everybody take care and we will see you here next week.
00:45:02
Speaker
Thanks for listening. Visit UnboundBoss.com to download free resources, browse our courses, or leave us a voice memo for the podcast. And if you like the show, please subscribe, leave us an Apple review, and share your favorite episodes with other women entrepreneurs. Talk to you soon.