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Widow’s Bay, Writers’ Rooms, and Why Great Stories Aren’t Made Alone ft Sin
38 Plays12 days ago
This week writer, actor, and producer Sinead Persaud joins us to talk about Widow’s Bay, the new horror comedy series that became the jumping-off point for a much bigger conversation about creativity, collaboration, and building worlds.
What starts as a discussion about horror comedy turns into an exploration of writers’ rooms, worldbuilding, and the strange experience of watching someone else release a project that’s remarkably similar to one you’ve been dreaming about for years. Along the way, we unpack why collaboration isn’t a compromise, why atmosphere matters just as much as plot, and how the best creative work often comes from trusting other people with your ideas.
We also talk about:
• Widow’s Bay
• Horror comedy and atmosphere
• Writers’ rooms and collaboration
• Shipwrecked Comedy
• Television development
• Worldbuilding
• The myth of the lone genius
• Creative partnerships
• Making stories with other people
So… what are you into right now?
Email us:
sowhatareyouintopod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
And welcome back to So What Are You Into? It's episode 15 and we've got a guest. Today's guest is Sinead.
00:00:11
Speaker
Oh, yes. That was well-timed. Thank you. Yes. Um...
00:00:20
Speaker
Sinead, you wear many hats. You a lot of things. right yeah You are an actor. You are a writer. You are creative. You are one of the core members. there's a lot of people involved with Shipwreck, but you're one of the... Is it three or four? Is it three? I was like... Sarah... Sarah is... I didn't know with Joe Stribling, because he directs a lot. He's core as well, but... He's basically a part of shipwreck just doesn't have to deal with, you know, doing the taxes. The minutiae. We don't want to make that. The financial aspect. So we can be a part of it, but we'll take on all the, you know, financial. take on the burden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, one of the core three of shipwreck comedy and an amazing person. We're so glad to have you on. Thank you for doing this. I know this is kind last minute because dropped the ball this week, but welcome. How are you? I'm good.
00:01:18
Speaker
Summer. Summer's
Sinead's Musical Journey and Theater Anecdotes
00:01:19
Speaker
here. you know I am just kind of finishing up the stray thoughts and whatnot on the musical that Sean and my brother and I are doing this summer that you both are involved in. Yeah. yep Yeah, yeah. James is choreographing?
00:01:39
Speaker
I sure am. Can't wait. I need you to teach me how to put my feet in positions because I will be wearing ballet shoes, I guess.
00:01:49
Speaker
ah hu And I am not a ballerina. I know. There's like so many fun things. You got my notes about the dream ballet for Lenore and Guy. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I was asked about that. And Sinead, how do you feel about me lifting you overhead? Are you cool? I think, you know, it's time in my life to do things that scare me. So yes, that's fine.
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah. can i tell you there good great glad go i I was just saying, I was hoping we could get the Elphaba cherry picker um and just, you know, lift one or like up through that. So um whatever's in the budget, you know, whatever, whatever we have ah financially viable.
00:02:24
Speaker
James, you might know what this lift is, but what is the lift where it's essentially the, the dirty dancing lift, but you know, like, you lift somebody and they they go very like rigid in their core and they're like, whatever. i was doing a production of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers where I did that with my with my partner and One show, she had a lot of momentum. And so she didn't stop at the top. She just kept going yeah that's la and landed on her head.
00:02:53
Speaker
oh and we had to stop the show. And i thought that I had maybe contributed to this woman's death. And she was okay. And she was good. But from then on, I have i was like, I'll never lift anyone ever again at any show ever. It was amazing. one of the worst moments of my entire life in a show. Explain this to me. Did she go over your head or she just went up and then yeah like she she like, like, the running me jump couldn't stop her. Cause it was going too fast. I couldn't stop the momentum. She had jumped. And I like, I don't, I don't know where it went wrong, but she just went and I went,
00:03:26
Speaker
It's lifting is such a hard thing. like I don't even know if I was taught properly how to do it at my dance studio. But, you know, it's just one of those things where you have to like, you have to as a base stabilize yourself so much that you don't move at all that you're all your momentum is going up. And with me, yeah i have an arched back. So so much of me trying to like ah position myself ends up pushing my weight.
00:03:48
Speaker
backward. And so I had even that was a learning curve for me to that's why I didn't want to lift people for a very long time. And then I worked on a cruise ship and then maybe lift dudes. And I hated that. The great the the bigger question is why in a community theater when we were like 17 did they go?
00:04:04
Speaker
You know, it's a great idea. It's how these non dancers perform incredibly dangerous physical. They are not trained to do. And just yeah, that'll be great. Yeah.
00:04:17
Speaker
I also, it was Seven Brides and I did the one, you know, the
Fitness Experiences and Personal Growth
00:04:20
Speaker
the the scene where there's the two pieces of wood between like two stumps or whatever. Yeah. And I did that jump and I was doing a 360 and I nailed it every time except for one. And I absolutely missed and I ah landed on it.
00:04:37
Speaker
crotch to crotch completely completely like messed up my leg and stuff so crotch yeah like why did it why and were we getting paid was say did you get hazard pay for that no it was a community we were paying to be in it I said, we don't jump anymore. After i broke my arm like three years ago, was jumping. You were doing a box jump, right? Yeah, was doing box jumps. And so after that, I was like, dangerous I will simply just be on the ground from now on. um
00:05:09
Speaker
I used to do box jumps and I didn't, I didn't have what happened to you happen to me, but I missed a box jump and it, and I still have a big scar from it. i missed it and I scraped it up. So i'm like, why do we do, I think a lot of the exercises at gyms are in inherently like performative and not actually beneficial in any meaningful way. Cause you could just jump yeah and get most of the benefit without having to land on another platform. Yeah.
00:05:37
Speaker
But isn't that just the problem with CrossFit specifically? A lot of those exercises are just so strenuous for reasons that I don't actually think are conducive to weight training or or even just body strength. it's It's very strange to me how that took off.
00:05:54
Speaker
I, uh, not to besmirch orange theory, but I used to work out there a lot. That's where I was. And I, the last year and a half year or so, I haven't been working out there. And I had the thought literally about a month ago. i was like, wow.
00:06:08
Speaker
like I feel really good. I feel strong. and I haven't had any crazy injuries. wow And I was like, what's the difference? And I realized, oh, it's the first time in years where I wasn't going to some kind of exercise program and was listening to my body. And I was like, oh, all those injuries and why I kept getting hurt were because of Orange Theory, Barry's Boot Camp.
00:06:31
Speaker
yeah i do I go to a local gym that's like, you know, lady owned and like very cool. that's great. um It's ah they have a variety of classes. So now I do spin, I do dance and I do weight training. And I'm like, ah you'll never find me higher than three inches off the ground. I mean, except on a spin bike, but I'm attached to the ground. You're attached to a thing. yes Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Can I give you my strange injury story? It has nothing to do with a musical or anything. um ah So this was in the fifth grade.
00:07:04
Speaker
ah We were playing dodgeball. ah Love dodgeball. Me too. And I had one of those gyms where it was connected to your ah like your stage, your auditorium, so to speak. And so they were there were stairs. yeah.
00:07:16
Speaker
leading up to it. So I was running after one of the balls and it just so happened to ricochet off of the stairs before my hand got to it. So the ball goes away. My hand crushes into the stairs and I end up damaging the nerves and breaking my pinky through the elbow.
00:07:34
Speaker
Cause you normally, when you break your pinky, like, It's the small it's not a big thing, but i like damaged all the nerves. So I had to get cast and everything. um And still today, like my pinky is a little crooked. You can kind of see. like it's a little But um all that to say, tonight I joined, for the first time, a dodgeball league. like Yay!
00:07:54
Speaker
I'm going to do it again. I'm I'm going to play so bad. Yeah. So I'm playing some dodgeball this summer. I'm excited to start that. That's so fun.
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah. Is that, do you know, is like, is it a, is it a chill kind of vibe or is it, is it kind of competitive or what's the. It's competitive in the sense that like, yes, there are teams and you're going to meet every week and all this stuff, but like, it's very much a social thing.
00:08:19
Speaker
um yeah And so and I, I'm joining a team that has already existed, but one of my friends, he was recruiting people. And ah because I'm not in a show this summer, I was like, well, I have time. Let me go do something. So I, every, every Thursday night I'll be playing some dodgeball.
00:08:34
Speaker
Can't Have played pickleball? Anybody? oh no No. I'm pickleball curious, but I've never played. but a It looks interesting, but I engaged with Is doubles tennis?
00:08:46
Speaker
I don't know. I've never played. You love doubles tennis. Yeah, that's it just that's what it looks like. It looks like you play it on a smaller court. ah like like The racket's a little different, but like it's just doubles tennis. So I don't know what the fascination with it is.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I just know my friends go. I know. Maybe it's just the world's different. Did you ever play basketball? Did you play guys ever play pickup basketball? Yeah, I loved basketball as a kid. That was...
00:09:15
Speaker
That was my favorite thing. I used to go to the 24 hour fitness in Burbank and they have a court on the roof. Yes. We'd go play pickup basketball. And I love it was like my, it was how I kind of got exercise for the first five or six years here. I just was like, oh I'm going play basketball. It's fun. i don't have to think about it. I'm already moving.
00:09:31
Speaker
But then the, the, the guys up there, and it's always guys. got Were so aggressive there was numerous occasions Where in the middle of a pickup game You know Somebody I bump into somebody And someone's like You want to go outside? You want you want to go downstairs? And I just, after walking away from at least three or four do you want to fight moments, I was like, this I don't, like, it it's ruined everything. So then I started going to a park in Burbank and it was cool. And then similar things happen where, like, people just go and aggressive. Why does everybody want
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. And be like, it i mean and and if it wasn't me, it was other people. And I just, so I just stopped playing. i stopped playing because I was like, I don't have sports. We can't have nice things. I don't know. I don't know. cur It sounds like you're just traveling from court to court, bullying people. and bad for some yeah i You need to, we need to get some counseling for you there, sir.
00:10:30
Speaker
I also used to be, were you guys ever competitive growing up? No. Like with sports? and ah Well, with sports, no. I played a lot of them, but I think part of the reason i stopped was because I didn't care enough to like and want to win. Yeah. i would eat a lot of I was a swimmer, as I know you were, Kurt, and you talked to my dad about it. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. He told me I need to keep going. should have kept swimming as a kid. He said that to me all the time.
00:10:57
Speaker
He's like, you you would be so much more fit now if you kept swimming. i'm like, yeah, I know. But
Competitiveness and Sports Fandom
00:11:02
Speaker
I had to go to meets four hours away and it was cold and I hated it. year and your weekend My my knees in high school and i would like get out of the pool and then have to go to my car and my hair would freeze into an icicle. And it was just not the life I wanted. Yeah, East Coast swimming, is that's a different – I was in Texas and it was kind of cold. But like if you're in on the East Coast getting out of getting out of a pool, no. Absolutely miserable.
00:11:28
Speaker
I used to be incredibly competitive. Like I just – every pickup game, every whatever, beach volleyball. And I don't know what happened, but like maybe about 10 years ago, I think we were playing beach volleyball and I just – I don't know what happened. it's like It's like any notion of competition absolutely evaporated.
00:11:50
Speaker
And even even now when I play, like east every everyone always kills me when we play Werewolf. Everyone kills me immediately. and I just kind of want to be like, a guys, I promise I'm like not here to win anymore. I used to be.
00:12:03
Speaker
yeah I used to be out for blood. just here to make sense yeah I genuinely am like, okay. oh Oh, dude, that's totally that's totally me. Anytime I played like mafia in high school or um or even remember when Among Us was a big thing during the pandemic? I was always the first person ah killed because they just assumed I was the killer. They're like, no, get rid of him. I was like, I never get to play the game.
00:12:27
Speaker
That's the worst part. That's why Blood on the Clock tower is great because you can still kind of play. Yeah, you get to like play the grave. As a ghost. You get a ghost vote. i I can't believe on an episode with me, we've talked about sports for the first 12 minutes. That is not what I thought was going to happen. That's amazing. Wait, can make one more sports thing though? I got to say something. I'm really enjoying watching the World Cup.
00:12:58
Speaker
i I guess I forgot. So I played soccer when I was a kid. dude I really enjoyed it then. Just stopped because of dance and stuff. But um it's of all the sports to like, I don't like watching baseball. Basketball is fun. There's a lot more.
00:13:11
Speaker
back and forth, but there's something really fun about watching soccer. And I was like rooting for the teams. And I think there's, I mean, there's some issues with FIFA for sure. Like what's this world peace prize they gave up, go away. But ah watching the teams actually play, it it's really cool.
00:13:26
Speaker
um ah Are you any guys interested in World Cup at all right now? i i have I have never watched the World Cup directly, but when was the last World Cup? Was it?
00:13:37
Speaker
Four years ago. It's every so four years. four years yeah Four years ago, Kim and I were at this time in Santa Barbara for some reason. I don't remember why. And everybody was watching the World Cup. And I remember we were at like a restaurant and I it was really fun to watch the other people watching it.
00:13:54
Speaker
And that there is this kind of and I know that it can also get very intense and, you know, sometimes riots and whatnot can break out. But there is a sort of like genuine fervor and and sometimes around like football fans. I guess I have PTSD growing up as a Cowboys fan.
00:14:10
Speaker
There's this macho, aggressive, There's like, as a kid, it actually scared me. Like when the grown men would lose their shit, like yeah incompetent children over grown men tackling each other.
00:14:24
Speaker
And I would be like, why are they, why are all the guys, why are all the dads so angry? You know, i'd be like really It's like they're paying you. It's so weird. And then like when when when like the Cowboys lose, then everyone in my vicinity is it going to have a bad day. And so they're like, oh, I guess today's a bad day. I remember but literally being like, oh, if the team lost, it's going to be a bad day emotionally for everyone. much pressure. That's so stupid.
00:14:50
Speaker
thought Hopkins supposed to be fun. I know. right With soccer fans, I've noticed... I've noticed that when I've been around people who really love watching particular soccer teams, there's like a real joy.
00:15:02
Speaker
yeah And a real like, yes, a doll we didn't win. But it's from my vantage point seems to be this very like pure thing um in a way that I feel like Texas football people are not purely anecdotal. But that's something I've noticed. But I don't. But I've never watched soccer. I've never played. I've never played it either. so But my mom is – my mom who lives in Boston and is from Glasgow has really been enjoying all the Scottish people in Boston.
00:15:28
Speaker
because she just misses her people. So she just has been going into Boston to just like wander around and- Just to see? all well Okay, well, to relate just to something that I know we could talk about is that it's kind of like, so Sinead, like, do you find when you're watching Traders, there's a player that you just really latch onto and you love them and you're like, oh my God, whether they're faithful or Trader, you just want to see them go further in the show. yeah And then if that person somehow gets either murdered or if they're voted out,
00:15:57
Speaker
yeah suddenly your joy of watching the rest of the season changes. that's happened for me. And that's how that's kind of what I feel like when you're watching your team lose. Like if you watch a player lose, you're just like, oh, well well, now I don't care what happens. Yeah. No, totally. I do try to, um you know,
00:16:14
Speaker
try to feel like what, what would be this important to me when I like, you know, see Sean sad that the Red Sox lost and I'm just like, I want to be empathetic.
00:16:31
Speaker
Amazing. um All right. So let's, let's see her back towards what the point of this podcast is. This is sports podcast now. This is a sports podcast. This podcast for me talking about sports. What are your fantasy picks, Sinead? Right. Okay. So, Sinead, we're going to ask you this wonderful question that we ask all of our guests, including Kurt and myself.
00:16:51
Speaker
So, Sinead, what are you into? my gosh. I thought you'd never ask. um So, so
Exploration of 'Widow's Bay' and Horror-Comedy Genre
00:17:00
Speaker
many things. I was trying to think about this before. And are you guys are talking about like currently, current obsessions, right? Sure, yeah. I know we talked about, and I don't know if you've had anyone talk about Widow's Bay yet on this show, but.
00:17:15
Speaker
No one's talked about it. We've just said that we want to talk about it. Yes. um now So many things I want to talk to you about. oh It's, ah what is it, Thursday. He comes back tonight because tomorrow is a holiday. So we will get to watch tonight the finale. So I haven't finished. I haven't seen the finale either. Okay, good. Kim and I, we so we're saving it for tonight.
00:17:35
Speaker
I will say I am. I started it late. So I'm only on episode three. But ah please talk about whatever you want. And if I need to la, la, la, I will. I'll take my headphones off. Just let me know.
00:17:45
Speaker
I mean, I think I know what's going to happen in the finale. If I'm wrong, I'll let you guys know. um So Widow's Bay, it's a show on Apple TV about a man played by Matthew. I don't know, am I supposed to do this? Am I supposed to give context? Sure. if you want this yeah However you want to talk about it yeah what the Yeah, it is ah it's a horror comedy about a small New England town, island.
00:18:10
Speaker
And um the mayor, Tom, is trying to get people to come to this town because he wants it to be the next Martha's Vineyard. um But it's cursed. And ah that's kind of the premise. And when i heard about the show and started watching it, I was um very, very, very sad and depressed. Because this is almost exactly the show that my brother and I have been trying to get made since we moved to California. We have a a pilot that we wrote for Sundance Labs that's basically, it's called The Local Haunt. And it's about a spooky movie New England town and the museum that is there and all the weird things. for context, you guys are from New England. Yes, we are from all of New England.
00:18:55
Speaker
This is your origin story. This is everything. And so I started watching it and I do think I wanted to hate it at first Um, and so I need to watch the first two episodes again because I was not really into it. Nothing. i like like I was like, is this making what, what? I don't know about the tone, but then I think three, I don't know. There was like a, a jump, there was like a, there was a spooky hotel and I was kind of like, all right, this is good. they're leaning into the horror now and the comedy second, which is, i love horror and I love comedy, but I could think that the horror with like,
00:19:33
Speaker
66% horror and the rest comedy like really started working for me. And then the ah Patricia episode happened and I was like, Oh, no I'm all in. This is great. Have you James? Have you, you haven't gotten to that episode. It's a, she throws a party.
00:19:49
Speaker
I've heard, um because I think it's episode four. I've just seen people talk about that was like a big turning point for the for the series so far. So yeah. It was just so- Series MVP for me, by the way. Just Patricia is patricia as a character, like series MVP. like Yeah, absolutely. I've never seen her in anything that I'm familiar with. But i every, I mean, Matthew Rhys is amazing, but i i she to me is the absolute standout.
00:20:16
Speaker
Everything she does with ah with this character is so fun and so funny and also really genuinely empathetic. And you really care about her, but it's also so – I love her so much. You're like, is she a little unhinged?
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Do I relate to her? Yes. I tried to have sunset cocktails basically and had – Not exactly this happened, but closer than I would like to say. um and yeah, she's just, I don't know. I feel like if I went to my back to my hometown, there's there's Patricia's that I could find at the local watering hole. Yeah, it's not a character that you see a lot. a lot Someone you shit in their 40s who gets to be kind of like unabashedly strange and but their lives and
00:21:06
Speaker
Um, it's great. Yeah. And, um, I love Matthew Reese. I haven't seen him in too much. I watched some of the Americans. Um, but I watched a show he was in last year with Claire Danes called like the beast in me. The beast in me. Yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
An evil, an evil guy. and Yeah. He's like kind of a, uh, what is that? The, HBO documentary, the Jinx, very much like that kind of energy of a dude. Yeah, he's great. And I don't understand that. I don't understand how he's doing this accent.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because if you hear his regular accent, you're just like, how like because I've ah the first thing I saw him in so random, but ah he was in the show called Brothers and Sisters on ABC like decades ago.
00:21:51
Speaker
And that was the first time I had seen him. And so he was just played this like really wholesome man. um with his family with uh what was her name sally field i think was the mo like the matriarch of the whole family um and i remember liking him then the career he's had since then is phenomenal i think he's one of the best i i i don't even want to call him a character actor but he does the way he embodies so distinctively his characters he's a fantastically charismatic performer i really enjoy watching him in this i um I think I saw him first as Mr. Darcy in like a death comes to Pemberley type show or something.
00:22:26
Speaker
um and that was, and I didn't realize it was him until much later, but yeah, he's great. Something you hit on that I really love about the show is the fact that it really lets itself kind of go to some scary places because that to me is always one of my tonal not issues, but I find to be discordant in a lot of things that try to balance things.
00:22:49
Speaker
A lot of large-scale Hollywood projects that are like, it's comedy horror. It's like one thing often overshadows. And I often find that the comedy sometimes just undermines stakes. And then i'm and I'm like, okay, well, is it funny enough that I actually don't care what's happening anymore? And usually the answer is not.
00:23:06
Speaker
And here, yeah, they really let, they really pedal to the metal on some genuinely right scary stuff, funny stuff. There jumpers that freaked at. I think episode...
00:23:17
Speaker
There's an episode um that centers on like the the house and more Patricia stuff. I don't want to give anything away, but there was like a jump scare in that episode and I just like shrieked and my cats went all over the place.
00:23:31
Speaker
Show is scary. Even just the the hotel episode, like yes just the sort of concepts of that they do very subtly of like when the guy is stuck in the room and then he opens the door and he's like, you guys need to be right back. And you're like, oh, that something is. And little things where you go, oh, what is happening here? And it like honors the horrors. It like goes, no, no, these things are really bad and people are not OK. It is funny. And I, yeah, um I saw it described as a Mike Flanagan, scary movie. yes so so mike flagan It's got, it's like Mike Flanagan and it's got like 10% of the monologues, which is pretty, yes. that Each episode seems to be, cause I love an homage. Homage is pretty much my entire career. Um,
00:24:22
Speaker
And I love just how every episode seems to be like kind of a specific genre that it's kind of tackling. So like episode one was like the fog or the mist um to like it, I guess, in The Shining. And then- The Patricia episode, I don't even know. That was its own thing. That was its own special thing. Then there's there's very much a Halloween ah Mike Myers you know episode. And it's just, yeah, it turns out, um yeah, it ended up being everything I wanted in a show. and
00:24:57
Speaker
i If anything, our viewing experience was so enhanced by the fact that we went to New England for your wedding last fall. We were watching being like,
00:25:09
Speaker
I understand. Like, I feel like I would have gotten it anyways, but it was particularly funny to be like, wait, we were, this reminds me of that place or whatever. yeah But if anything, I'm like, Kim and I were saying to Sean, when we saw him, we went and saw back rooms together. Oh, fun but we were like, Hey, if anything, maybe it proves the concept is like, it proves the the fact that people could be into this kind of thing. So was like, maybe it opens more doors to go look.
00:25:37
Speaker
This kind of stuff is great. People love it. You can do this kind of thing. so Got it. i believe and I believe in your guys' ah pilot still. yeah Wait, so I have a question about that very thing, though. So having an idea, and and this is for anyone who's maybe...
00:25:53
Speaker
had a concept like yours or just like an idea that they've been ruminating on forever. And then you see a version of that pop up. What does that tell you about a, your own idea, but then how you do how do you continue to say, okay, well, I still want to make my thing.
00:26:09
Speaker
How can I, like, do you try to reformat it? What do you do so that you can watch your idea live a similar, if not different life? Yeah. So I feel like, well, firstly, I saw, I read that this Katie Dippold had this as a spec for Parks and Rec over like almost 20 years ago. So that actually made me feel a lot better. I was like, okay, we're still trying to get things made like 20 years after the fact.
Creative Ideas and Industry Challenges
00:26:33
Speaker
I think I used to be really upset by it. And I used to be like, well, oh, well, throw that in the trash and start a new one. Cause you know, God, you have to have more than one idea, but now I'm kind of more like, you know,
00:26:46
Speaker
we live in a world where no strings attached and friends with benefits came out within three months of each other. they both did perfectly fine. I saw them both. And I wasn't like upset that I watched the same plot twice. So if something, two things like that similar can be in the world, like, I don't know, there's like 80 adaptations of Carrie. People clearly like familiar things. um But yeah, putting your own mark on it is is kind of the,
00:27:14
Speaker
the trick to being like, this is kind of like this if you like this, but different enough that you're gonna wanna watch this whole thing in its entirety. i had that thought recently with, um there's one as a TikTok, Instagram film person I follow, he wrote the movie Goat, that animated movie, his name is Nicholas Caruccio, I think his name.
00:27:35
Speaker
But he always does these really great recommendation lists of, hey, if you liked this and you want more of that, if you'd love that feeling, check out these five films. And I've never find myself being, if I love the thing that I saw that he's been referencing, I'm never like, Oh, I just saw that. I'm like, Oh yeah, I want more. oh yeah. I want to like, so it, that was actually a helpful thought of, Oh, as an, as a peer, as a fan,
00:27:59
Speaker
I don't walk away from something I love and then immediately go, well, I can never watch that again. yeah i am like, wait, I want oh, I want to kind of experience that again in a different way. So I find I actually just happened the other night. I have this feature that i wrote. I'm trying to get off the ground. I saw the trailer for this new horror movie called Leviticus. Oh, yeah. That's our trailer.
00:28:20
Speaker
That's our entire trailer. And so I went and watched it very, very different um from what our thing was, but there were some elements, but I went, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the kind of imagery that we're working with here is evocative and it is effective. And, um, uh,
00:28:38
Speaker
the trailer of it, I went, okay, it's selling a similar thing, even though the movie the movies are fundamentally different, but it kind of actually gave me a weird confidence of like, okay, so this idea could work and people could be into it.
00:28:49
Speaker
Um, so I, I've been writing novels lately for the past couple of years and I'm querying one and writing another one. And a very important thing you need for query letters to to agents is to have like two or three comp titles so that they know exactly like where to place you on a shelf.
00:29:08
Speaker
And if you don't have that, people are like, well, then how do we have any proof anyone anywhere would ever watch or read this? So, yeah, you don't you kind of don't, especially if you're starting out, you don't want to be the first person. the People want originality, which is so hard, like you also need to be.
00:29:29
Speaker
You also need to pigeonhole yourself a little bit. So weird. yeah it's It's like this proof of concept, right? Like, ah stay with me here. I'm going to make a really bold and connection. But I feel like Backrooms exists as a movie because something like Severance was made.
00:29:49
Speaker
Right? It's like like we were, because that that stylistically lives in liminal spaces. And that show in a very simplistic setting from a design perspective, it still captured a lot of people's imagination. Obviously, you want a good story on top of that. But I feel like for a studio to take something like Backrooms, which is pretty much just internet lore. And luckily, Kane Parsons you know made those videos that were successful on their own.
00:30:15
Speaker
but But because these studios kind of need, like i said, a proof of concept, they need some titles, they need something to say, oh, this is a model that has worked before. Sure, we'll give you money so you can make your thing. It's a monkey monster and mental health discussion.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yes. you know So i feel I feel like it's, ah to to your point earlier about ah things kind of needing to, ah if maybe the idea exists, but if you can just kind of mold it in your own special way, you can have a version of that so that, yes, you may end up with a friends with benefits and no strings attached, but at least they know the model works. yeah Here's a question for both of you, actually. um Sticking with the horror thing,
00:30:58
Speaker
um I have a – I'm really excited like that this – at least these last six months have really given us fun, horror, but also comedy. Like there's like – we're really blending this. And I'm not even sure like you can anticipate that, right? Like you don't know ah all the time that certain movies are going to get released or even a show like Widow's Bay will be released when it does. or we're just like hitting this stride right now.
00:31:21
Speaker
The one thing I'm concerned about though is that we're going to get – ah The studios are going to get the wrong idea. and all of a sudden, the only thing they're going to be looking for is quirky horror comedy for the next like three to five years.
00:31:34
Speaker
That's all I do. So I'll be very excited. Okay. Okay. It's like, thank God. Just let you get in there for once and then we can move on to the next thing. We can do it.
00:31:47
Speaker
Just please. Yeah. ah that know yeah my my I wouldn't say it's a fear, but my cynicism would be that they would go, they would They would not actually give opportunities to people with those unique voices, but they would just be like, all right, we'll get our 65-year-old white dudes to like do that. for Like, hey, guys, this is what the kids want. Spit that out. like That, to me, is the mistake of like, no, it's giving people with those voices a platform right who have the idea to make it something. It's like, even with the success of you know Backroom's Obsession.
00:32:23
Speaker
yeah you go that it works because and those are like two dudes but like you go well but that's that was their specific concept and to be like so the kids like the they like this kind of stuff you go no no you need to give those people the opportunities to make the thing let's not try to co-opt or ah adopt it i guess if that makes any sense i have a question please have Do you guys have – this is just specific to back
Liminal Spaces and Environmental Storytelling
00:32:49
Speaker
rooms. you guys have any liminal spaces of your childhood that you kind of like recall in a spooky way?
00:32:58
Speaker
Because I do.
00:33:01
Speaker
Say yours first then. Okay. I just have a memory of my mom and I don't know where. I don't remember like getting in the car, but I remember like going here couple times and it wasn't in like a mall, but it was in kind of like a, almost an arcade environment and everything was blue. And my mom would like go and sit with the other parents on like the side of the room.
00:33:21
Speaker
And then there was just like this big blue ball pit and like this big blue structure. and I would just like get, lost in there. I could just play in those structures for hours. and I don't know what I was doing. like What was I imagining? and i just this every This memory just has this like hue of like unreality in my memory. It was really fun. and i'm like I've asked my mom about it and she's like, I do not know what you're talking about. You're like, really that place didn't exist. yeah Yes.
00:33:52
Speaker
I have one. it's never yeah The church that I grew up going to as a kid, i my mom would like play music. And I remember you know this church sat maybe like four or five hundred people.
00:34:06
Speaker
I frequently would be there during the weekday when like, I think they'd be practicing and I would just go wander around. And so to walk into an empty church sanctuary when all the lights are out and there was maybe like a work light on and you're in a room built for 500 people and there was just not a sound and you just, it's just in all all the seats are kind of in shadow and and so you can't even quite tell if anybody's in the seats or not. And,
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, I found it. I remember I would just go, I would go sit. I would just like go sit in the back row and I would just sit in the silence for some reason and just kind of take in the ambiance and how surreal it was to be in a space.
00:34:47
Speaker
Seems like you're not really in time. Yes. yeah Yeah. A space that should be theoretically full of people and music and whatever being so unearthly silent was really interesting. And then i have this vivid dream. I've never had a more vivid dream, but I have this incredibly vivid dream that I think about all the time of like.
00:35:09
Speaker
It was almost like I went to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory or something in my dream. I love that movie as a kid. is's my favorite It's one of my favorite movies of all time, the Gene Wilder movie. I have this vivid memory of of this like whole world with rolling green hills and incredible like weird kind of strange architecture but all in a warehouse with like a roof over it so it's like this massive the size of you know a field in England but like very clearly inside of a building um which is one of the reasons I think back rooms is so striking to me of like I know that feeling of like yeah
00:35:47
Speaker
endless fields but we're inside um particularly the sequence in back rooms where like they walk out into the neighborhood and it's so weird they're still inside don't I'm so curious you know i think with with the liminal space of it all I'm like I'm curious why certain environments, it seems to be something that is touching on something as humans that we're like, I don't know what the exact psychological response is, but clearly yeah people respond to it. I follow an account called like, what is it called? remember.
00:36:20
Speaker
It's like, but it's basically like videos of like 90s bedrooms with like a music playing. And it's like, yeah. your mom just called you down for Totina's pizza rolls. Your friends are coming over in an hour and you're like, I've been here before. It's very surreal and strange. And it's it's that feeling of, Oh, one day was the last day I play with all my friends. Right. Yeah. And I didn't know it kind of feeling. Yeah. um Yeah. like It's kind of just like a feeling of being in a space for me, just like,
00:36:55
Speaker
I'm not, there's nothing else to think about. There's just me like in the moment with the space, like taking in everything and I'm not thinking about anything outside of it. And I feel like that's what makes it like nice. Like I know a lot of it's spooky, but I'm like, I'll also go sit in the back rooms. I don't know.
00:37:12
Speaker
It's great. Um, I've watched a place become a liminal space. Oh, interesting. So the mall in my hometown when I was a kid was like the hub. Everyone from every city came to this specific mall. going where it is because people might find it out. But ah but everyone would come to this mall. There were tons of shops like your JCPenney, Macy's, all that stuff.
00:37:36
Speaker
And then ah obviously I go to college and then I move out of the state. And every time I come back home, little by little, stores in that mall would be closing. But then they stopped getting replaced. And then more shops became empty. And so suddenly, i would say this is about five years ago, I go back and only the out the major department stores on the outer perimeter were the things that were actually open.
00:37:58
Speaker
And if you went inside the mall, you saw the like the faded um lights that showed the the name of each store. And you could see like where there were there was a play area, but that was taken away. And the whole building is just kind of empty, but you hear the echoes of music playing from a store like...
00:38:16
Speaker
you know, 200 feet that way or something like that. Like it it it became a very eerie thing because like that's where i spent my childhood. That's where I got my first job. But now you walk in there. well actually, so now it's closed. So the building, the structure is still there. I think the only thing that might be open is like, I think the JCPenney maybe. um But if you go there now, it it feels like an actual ghost town. And I think that's what's so what's so cool about the back rooms is that at Around any corner, something could be there and maybe it's watching you, but you don't know because you're just like in this vast space that seems uninhabited. it's very It was very eerie to watch that progression of this very populated thing go to nothing.
00:38:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's so fun. I want to rent it out and do an immersive event there. that's i think all abandoned malls should be- You probably could. your events yeah
00:39:11
Speaker
I'm curious with, you know, with, sorry, go ahead, James. No, I was going to, you were going to something. um i This is something I notice, literally, it's kind of a segue, but not, but kind of. With shipwreck stuff in particular, it's something that I think is really distinct to like how, and even just the stuff that I've read of yours,
00:39:32
Speaker
Wait, I guess, have I ever read anything of yours that's not shipwrecked stuff? You've talked you've talked talked to me about a few ideas, but it seems to me that environment and space is always so distinctive with your guys' projects. And I think it's one of the reasons that makes your stuff really interesting in a sea of coming from the 2010s YouTube sketch comedy era where everything was just like two dudes in an apartment.
00:39:55
Speaker
sitting around, yeah you know, i eat it's like your guys stuff really has a feeling and a shape to it that feels so distinctive and so specific.
00:40:07
Speaker
Is that something? Do you think about environment a lot as a writer and in the way you create stories? Do you think about environment and the feeling of a space? It feels like you do, but I just said something I like was thinking of as you were talking about that. I was like, that feels really specific to Shipwrecked and like your writing in particular.
00:40:25
Speaker
A lot of it, which is, this is weird because I love writing dialogue and jokes and just like banter between characters. And that's like a real big joy for me. But when I'm looking for entertainment and especially in like horror or dramas or like plays atmosphere, like the vibes are everything. Like I want to just feel like I'm in a completely other place. I want to be like, I put on a nightgown and I feel like I'm a Victorian ghost because this castle is so,
00:40:55
Speaker
Gorgeous. And sometimes I get upset because I'm like, everything we make costs so much money because we put so much time into the atmosphere. We rented a whole town for Headless. And, yeah um you know, everything takes place in a Gothic manner. So we've been in every Gothic manner that Los Angeles has to offer. What if we just were guys in an apartment, though? What if we did that? What if we want?
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, even going back to the very first like telltale vlogs, like even those, which theoretically were a guy and a gal in an apartment, but you made them not that you made it like five libraries. There's like yeah copies of the Da Vinci code behind me on that wall. did i Even that you you go, <unk> that's what's so fun about it. You're okay. I've seen, I've seen many, many vlog style comedy things, but you go I've never seen this, the texture, the feeling, the fact that it feels like lived in. And I go, that's really fun. That's really cool. And it's really specific. And yes, it probably makes your guys life a lot more difficult in producing things, but I would say it's worth it because the feeling is so tactile and I'm not just like,
00:42:12
Speaker
Again, like we talked about this with the with the horror and comedy of Widow's Bay, but like so much comedy on the Internet is just lives or dies on just the jokes.
00:42:24
Speaker
And that's about it. And when you go, if the jokes aren't there, then you go, there's nothing else to hold on to. And A, your guy's stuff is really funny, but I also so appreciate that there is a world that is being like touched and felt and that yeah we've talked about this a lot in the podcast, how we just are like really craving, the older we get really like immersive and like experiences to get lost in, less of Oh, the plot and more just like, I just kind of want to, want to be, I want to go to a place. Yeah. So much of why I write is, um, and maybe this is bad. Maybe it's just like, I'm ciphering myself a lot, but I only want to write about places and things that not, I don't want to, you know, experience, you know,
00:43:08
Speaker
um my character's journey in Headless. That would be very sad and bad. But I do want to live in that small town and I do want these friends and I do want you know to be a spooky witch who can do that. And I want to be in one of my books I wrote takes place in New Orleans. And I'm like, if I could live anywhere else in the US, s I would live in New Orleans and I want to be able to write this version of myself that lives there And, or, and, you know, in, in headless or not in headless in, in Edgar Allan Poe, I'm like, I would love to be in a Gothic manner with all my friends doing a murder party. i would love that. all I just want to be in places I want to be. wouldn't like anything else. Like I love the, like back rooms is great. I don't think I would ever write the back rooms.
00:43:52
Speaker
because I don't want to really I mean I would like to go there but I don't want to like live in that world for a long time yeah like the kind of I love horror and I love a lot of different types of horror but there are some things that I know I wouldn't want to live in for like I don't think I would want to write hereditary I liked watching it once that's the kind of thing I can do because I'd I can't, I don't know that I can be that bleak.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Part of me always wants to be in this environment. Like I just recently saw the movie Hocum. Did you see that?
00:44:31
Speaker
i I loved it. I feel like it really flew under the radar. And I thought of you guys too. i was like, oh, this like like the Irish situation, but I want to be there.
00:44:43
Speaker
I want to go up to that bed. I want to go up that suite and I want to chill out in there. don't want to be in the hereditary house. I don't want be in that family. You don't want that one? They seem fine. They just need to talk it out. There was a little of that with me with Midsommar where I was like, I would go to that.
00:44:58
Speaker
I would go to that cult camp. that would be I'd be chill. That'd be nice. cry um So switching gears just a tiny bit. yeah Can we talk about the librarians for a second?
Collaboration in Writing and Story Development
00:45:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah, sure. um So with all that you've talked ah spoken about with your writing and what you like to do and how you like to immerse yourself in those worlds, how do you apply that to ah an existing show? You're ah now on a team. You are many voices writing for very specific voices. So how do you approach that um aspect ah of your of your writing?
00:45:31
Speaker
Well, we were very lucky that this was a spinoff. So we all came in with zero, like act zero, um the writer's room. We had no characters, only like brief outlines of what could happen. So we got to create the characters from scratch in the room with like the eight of us or so. So that was really exciting.
00:45:50
Speaker
Not that so I love writing for other people's voices. I loved writing spec scripts for existing shows in college. I wrote one for like Modern Family and Parks and 30 Rock, and it was so fun.
00:46:04
Speaker
And it's just so fun to try and mold yourself. It's kind of like acting, but with a pen where like, how do I get into this character who I love and what jokes would they say? What would they not say? And I wrote a lot of fan fiction as a kid.
00:46:19
Speaker
And I had something else to say about this, but anyway, I love it. I like writing for other people. So if I ever got put into a show like mid season or something, I'd be like, yes, let's do this. But for librarians, it was very cool to be like new characters, new plots, but, um and also the thing was it's so whimsical and adventure based and like object based. And I love just coming up with random plot, like high concept plots. And that's all this show really is.
00:46:54
Speaker
So after we'd we'd come up with like characters, because it was a very character first show, we spent a couple days just writing random ideas on note cards. And my boss would kind of just like go over and be like this one. And we were all just like watching as he like picked. We would write like a or B on it, like he was grading them. And then we would get there. It was really funny.
00:47:20
Speaker
um for our for for our season one episode that we got to write ourselves, i was I felt very bold. I like came into the room one day and I was like, have we ever done an episode about tarot cards? And my boss was like, no, pitch it. And I was like, okay. So Sean and I picked this thing that we we were very off the cuff about it. We had met for three hours the night before trying to come up with this episode. um and And he was like, great. And we were like,
00:47:51
Speaker
Cool. But everybody in that room is so fun to work with and really great. And a lot of them had been on the original series. So we felt like we were getting like really great mentorship the whole time.
00:48:04
Speaker
Super fun. Please watch it so we can come back for season three. But season two premieres in August. Oh, great. like Okay. That's great. i will put I'll drop in right now. You're probably watching on the video some kind of little video trailer. They are wacky.
00:48:27
Speaker
um And so, yeah, so with with that, like, I guess because i obviously I've never been in a writer's room. So i'm wondering, you're trying to pitch ideas and I'm sure everyone is coming to the table with something, right? Everyone's got a perspective similar to yours where you're saying, oh, I really think this would be a fun idea. So how is it that we can get...
00:48:45
Speaker
eight writers in a room to ah either agree on like, this is the tone we want for this. What if we're making an episodic thing where there's a theme, like we have to go through 10 episodes and we need to make sure that there's a storyline that we, we hit all the beats. How do you get that many voices to work cohesively to make that story happen?
00:49:06
Speaker
Yeah. Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's like, we are like, no, this isn't, this isn't working. But it helps because our showrunner is very decisive. Dean knows what he wants.
00:49:17
Speaker
And if something's not working and we're really trying to fake like figure it out in a way that's just like, ah, he'll just be like, no, it's not working. If we're like, if we're trying too hard to get it to fit in a certain character's arc, like it doesn't need to be there. um So basically it was like,
00:49:36
Speaker
i know. And we're all, everybody's very respectful and nice in the room. And I feel like you, I did a lot of research on like, how should I act as a staff writer? And you're kind of just there to give ideas. Don't cause any problems add on, but don't talk too much because you are the lowest rank in the room. And so I feel like I was balancing all of that, but um yeah, we all kind of agreed on the tone.
00:50:00
Speaker
We, um the first day of the room, we went around and our boss kind of like asked us what he, what our favorite parts of the show, of the original show were and how we could bring that into like this new spinoff. So what we do is we have our various episode ideas. Like this is a fun object we want to do an episode on. We want to do tarot cards. We want to do this. Which characters like through line would directly most relate to this object or this adventure? And how can we make this personal to them?
00:50:30
Speaker
And that kind of helps us decide like, which way we're going. And then as we get a little deeper, each episode is kind of assigned to a different writer. We're writing team in my um instance.
00:50:43
Speaker
And then we can kind of, we have a little more um say in how you know, dialogue is written and like what, where things should go. But we, we do every outline together in the room and yeah, i don't know. The collaboration just kind of happened. It was great. Yeah. i I had a friend of mine who was in a writer's room maybe maybe two or three years ago and he was saying the biggest thing he took away was just,
00:51:06
Speaker
Learning that no one idea is precious yeah and that and that even like an idea that you love that ends up not going through. you Like even as he was like, even as a writer yourself to go the rejected idea gets me to the next idea or the four rejected ideas get me to the final idea. And so.
00:51:29
Speaker
Like not being like, oh, well, this is my idea. And so it has to work. It's like, no, but maybe that, well, that doesn't work, but I have this idea. And realizing like, oh, there is no bad idea. There is no good idea. There's just like coming coming to a point where it all makes sense for the story. Obviously it takes a good showrunner who's yeah who's able to put a room together to actually...
00:51:50
Speaker
actually facilitate that process. And I think there's, you know, there are definitely instances I've heard of where that doesn't happen. And people do very much get stuck on the outside looking in and, um you know, but and we're also losing writer, like the idea of a writer's room is kind of a dying thing. You know, there's so many.
00:52:10
Speaker
hmm. so many auteur, like I write and direct and edit and shoot everything myself or whatever. And you really lose There's a, there's a real lot also too. It's a, it's a talent. What's that thing called? What is the phrase when,
00:52:26
Speaker
Because you're not mentoring and developing people, then you kind of lose an entire generation of possible ideas later on. I don't know what the the concept is, but it happens like in games a lot where it's like, you know, instead of, instead of, instead of you fire a whole division of people.
00:52:42
Speaker
And, and so then those people go, all right, well, I guess going change careers. And you go, well, in 10 years, those people might've made something truly amazing, but they never got the chance to cultivate. And yeah.
00:52:54
Speaker
Streaming has really made that really hard. many different skills in a room. Like I'm not great at plot mechanics. I will be the first to admit that. Sean is a lot better at that. um we Sean and I were kind of the comedy writers in the room, which I hear is a great place to be as a comedy comedy writers in a drama room as opposed to ah a mediocre comedy writer in a comedy room where you're just going to be like – Like if I was in the 30 Rock room, I feel like I would have been eaten alive. But that drama is like –
00:53:29
Speaker
I'm in a good place. And then we have one guy who's like a cerebral ideas guy. And he was great. And then we have one guy who knows structure because he's done multicam sitcoms for his whole career. And he's just a pro. And so without a writer's room, just one guy doing all of it. Like, where's your perspectives coming in? Like, I don't know.
00:53:49
Speaker
is not a singular vision like movies are. See, I feel like I would want a writer's room in my own head because that just sounds like so much fun to have. Like, here's the ideas guy. Here's a person with a lot of mechanics. I'd function much better as a human being if I had a writer's room making all of my decisions in my head.
00:54:09
Speaker
Can I ask you guys a creative question about working with other people? And this is me being – I'll be a little vulnerable on the podcast. I, for years, felt as though – I wasn't good because i would always immediately, if I was writing something, i always craved and longed to like get somebody else involved. If I was creating something, I'd be like I want to.
00:54:34
Speaker
And I, and I remember for years being like, well, that means you're not really like brilliant because the brilliant ones, they do it all themselves. They, Right, right. They go away and they furiously scribble notes.
00:54:49
Speaker
And then I realized in the last few years, I went, I don't care. i don't enjoy doing it by myself. If I want to do something, the first thing the first thing that I want to do if i have an idea is I want to get somebody or multiple people involved and I want to like hash it out.
00:55:03
Speaker
I've always worried in the past, that like are you not confident in your own ideas? And that could be true sometimes. But I really enjoy going to somebody else and go, what do you think about this? Do you find, do you find that you work better? i mean, are you guys right as a team? Like Jamesy choreography is kind of a, you live in your head a bit. I mean, I don't know. Do do you find that you enjoy just doing things with other people or do you, what do you think of the auteur, the idea of an auteur? Like I do it all myself. I'm a genius. I don't know. I think about this a lot. Yeah. I'll go first on that since you asked. um So i I approach this the same with choreography, the same when I direct, but I also feel it ah is applicable when I'm an actor in a piece.
00:55:45
Speaker
I think everyone in the room should have agency, regardless if you're the creative brain or you're the performer brain. um ah The reason why is I do think it is art art should be a collaborative effort.
00:55:58
Speaker
um You can, like obviously if you're a painter, you're going to do your own painting. You will do that stuff yourself. That's fine. I think there are certain things that necessitate when you're working with other people that everyone feels like they're contributing something. um Because some of the best experiences I've had as a performer is when a director is not just saying, this is my vision, you're doing what I'm doing, and that's the end of it.
00:56:19
Speaker
It can happen that way and that's fine. But some of the best directors I've worked with are people that said, hey, how does this make you feel? Okay, this doesn't seem natural to you. What's a way that feels natural to you so we can execute this? That to me is a good director because they're figuring out a way to work with you, not against you.
00:56:35
Speaker
um And the same thing when it comes to choreography, I like to meet people where they're at. I don't want to give you something that doesn't look natural or feel good to you. So eventually I'll just ask, like, hey, what's what's a better way we can go about this? Awesome. I'm not precious about it has to look this exact perfect way. Otherwise, it just feels soulless. And I'd rather people feel like they are part of the creative process to make this thing happen, especially when it's live entertainment or something like that. Mm hmm.
00:57:04
Speaker
For me, i I love collaborating with people because there is so much that I am not good at. Like I'm not going to be a DP in this lifetime. And our DPs on our sets make everything, make everything, make everything. I mean, like the words are there, sure. But then like to fill to frame something up so beautifully is like an art And without that, we really have nothing. And down down to like sound design and composing, it's like, why would I, I can't do, I can't do all this. inrself Christopher Nolan doesn't do all this himself. So why should I have to? um So yeah. So for most things, I love a collaborative effort because I just know that the people around me are going to enhance everything that i do and and bring things to it that I could never have dreamed of. And like jokes that I could never have dreamed of and just punch ups and Everything's, yeah. And like, I don't know, i i probably shouldn't write any TV or film without Sean because it won't make sense. It'll just be a series of dialogue scenes with characters doing insane things. And Sean will be like, hey, that isn't a thing that makes any sense.
00:58:16
Speaker
ah and I do like writing novels because there's some things that I just want to explore in my own mind and they kind of help me. um You know, i don't need, Sean doesn't necessarily need to, you know, write the novel with me about my feminine struggles. um But- i mean, he was right there. He knows all of them, right? Yeah. um And I also just like to write all the time and it would be hard to write a novel with somebody because I'm always just-
00:58:47
Speaker
working on it alone. So, but even then i get like many, many, many people to beta read and give me ideas and tell me if things are working. So there's, there's really nothing that I could do that I wouldn't want someone else's input on at least.
00:59:03
Speaker
i the the The question was inspired by the fact that i've spent years thinking if I can finally write and direct my own feature, then I then i can say I'm i'm like ah to like, that was this weird, stupid thing.
00:59:19
Speaker
definition that I had given myself. Like I have to write it and I have to direct it and then I have to be the one to say I made it. And I'm in the process right now of trying to get this feature off the ground where i helped develop the story, but my friend wrote it and it's a phenomenal script and I'm so hyped.
00:59:36
Speaker
I feel so excited to get to like try to direct this thing that, that they wrote. Yeah. And i so more so much more gratifying and i'm having way more fun than I've ever had and trying to think about getting a project off the ground. And I was like, why did I put this box? Why did I put this box why to put myself in this box of like, I have to do it all. And like how many ideas could I have made by now if I hadn't gotten stuck back at step two?
01:00:01
Speaker
Because I just was like, I got to write it all myself. And so yeah so, there's been a real freedom I've discovered recently of going, I don't like to, I don't want to do both those. I like writing. I like directing. I don't have to do both on the same thing. And in fact, maybe I shouldn't. Maybe actually that's a really smart thing. The writer is probably going to then one see you directing it and see the output and be like, I didn't think of this that way. Or like, can't believe saw that that way. That's not how I was envisioning it, but it's so rich and now it has other context and...
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah. That's so cool. I don't want to direct at all. So please direct anything I write. hey my stuff yeah and really never see it again. I will say I've i've had a ah pipe dream before of wanting a like multimedia company that had a bunch of friends that just did different things. right like we all like Some of us are working on a movie. Some people are doing some music. you know like i There is that like weird dream of just everyone in a collective together making a bunch of fun stuff because everyone just has different talents and abilities and and perspectives. So why not just combine that and, and make a whole bunch of things. And and those exist. um But yeah, there there is still kind of that want in the back of my head, like, oh, you know, like we have enough people, we could just do that.
01:01:20
Speaker
That's what I'm telling someone, hey, what do you want to do this time? You might go, You know, I know, Sinead, you're like, I don't want to direct per se, but like maybe one day you maybe one day you woke up and you went, I would to go, hey, what's something you what's something you've wanted to try to do? But, you you know, like that's so cool. That happened with when we did Space Baby.
01:01:40
Speaker
um Kim Kim kind of inadvertently accidentally kind of became the producer. Kind of begrudgingly at first. And then she was like, oh, actually, okay, like I can do this. And then with this other project we're doing right now, that was, it was such an easy, like, hey, Kim, would, from Stark and they were like, hey, Kim, would you kind of produce? And she's just,
01:02:03
Speaker
taking it by the reins and like gone to town. And it's like, it's not a thing. i don't think she ever thought I should do this. But when the moment came, she was so competent and so good at it that she discovered something in herself because she was just like, oh, let me try this.
01:02:19
Speaker
um Yeah, I guess coming from growing up thinking like everything you do has to you always have to do something that you were like training to do your
Career Timelines and Networking Insights
01:02:29
Speaker
whole life. I'm like in a phase of going, what are things I've never thought of doing or what are new ways of doing things that I've never considered before? And being open to those is really freeing um versus like this is not part of the 20 year plan. plan anymore. Oh boy. There's no plan. not a pivot every year i've've i've bypa I've missed all of my deadlines. So now I'm just like, well, we're in uncharted territory.
01:02:54
Speaker
I've been seeing a lot of stuff ah from millennials specifically lately saying that they're starting over or the plan wasn't met or whatever. I i feel like we are just part of the generation that like we were supposed to get to a certain point by a certain time and all of us are like, nope, didn't happen. Restructuring.
01:03:10
Speaker
I had a funny conversation with one of my friends last weekend when we were talking about like backrooms and obsession. And we were like, these kids just coming out and making these things. And we were like, we didn't know we could do that.
01:03:25
Speaker
We were told we had to pay our dues. Yeah. But the generation before us and the jet and Gen Z we don't have didn't have to pay dues. We're not here in our 30s and we're like, wait, I didn't know I could have directed a film by now.
01:03:41
Speaker
i see. yeah I've done things wrong. i've I've done it wrong. used it. So much of our training, it was the, just, you know, and i maybe in our specific worlds of, of creativity, maybe it's true for every industry, but yeah, so much of what we were brought up being told is you have to do things a certain way and you, and, and, and, and you've got to go and you're going to, it's going to be a long timeline, but it's all going to pay off. And,
01:04:07
Speaker
yeah There is a freedom in failing at, or not failing, but none of those promises coming true and then kind of going, all well, there's like a freedom in that.
01:04:21
Speaker
Because Sinead, I was going to ask you, like, what would be your advice to aspiring writers? But I even feel like the advice you might have been given has slightly changed because like spec scripts aren't really a thing anymore, right? Like yeah people don't need to do those.
01:04:36
Speaker
People were like, make your own stuff. And I was like, bro, I did for so long and it doesn't matter. It's networking.
01:04:48
Speaker
Just you have to do it. If I could go back in time, I would be at every party. I would be at everything. I would not be shy. i would just force myself. I'd take a shot. I'd go to a thing. I'd be like, hey, I'm a writer.
01:05:00
Speaker
Do you want to rep me? um It's people. It's all people. It's yeah very rarely some amazing thing you do that you put out into the world that gets viral. That's going to make that's like you hear those things. And those are rare. Mostly it's just, who you know.
01:05:19
Speaker
Yeah. yeah yeah That's the truth, man. that like so That's so real. i've I feel like kim kim Kim has asked me about this and I've opened up to her and said, i I feel a lot of regret.
01:05:32
Speaker
i don't I don't mean this in a depressing way, but i do I do feel like there's a lot of things I look back and I go, I just wish that I hadn't been so reluctant to put myself out there. Not in a, um' and I'm the best, I'm amazing, but I just think about opportunities that at the moment I went, I don't want to say anything to.
01:05:49
Speaker
yeah with the i'll just I'll just work in the shadows and then my work will speak for itself. And then you go, one's watching, no one cares. And that sounds depressing, but in a weird way that the hopeful thing that I've had recently is like, oh yeah, no one's watching, no one cares. So I can just go, yeah i can just kind of do whatever. And then that gives me the confidence now to just Hey, I'm doing something weird. I'm doing this thing.
01:06:14
Speaker
And i am kind of blown away how much how much you can open a door by just going, hey, I'm doing a thing. yeah People are like, love that.
01:06:25
Speaker
Can I be? Yeah. Yeah. so and And to give it a more positive spin as well is that, yes, there's a chance that we could have been famous movie stars and making these big budget movies and all this stuff. And I realized for myself, it's not even that I want fame or notoriety from it. I just want to be able to do those things on a larger scale.
01:06:44
Speaker
But even the skill that I have worked at, what it's afforded me is meeting people like Sinead and Kurt and working with Starkid, working with Shipwrecked, being able to do these projects with friends that are, I would say, even more fulfilling because we know we're doing something together with people that we care about.
01:07:00
Speaker
And I found a great value in doing those types of projects, um regardless if they're seen on the wide scale. And and and and some of these things have been. So we're we're very fortunate that you know fans of both of these companies have enjoyed those projects.
01:07:15
Speaker
but But now i'm making I'm making the conscious choice to say, I love the work that I've done, and I love doing this with these people. And if if that is the peak of my career, then I know I've done something that is worthwhile, and I don't have any regrets about that.
01:07:29
Speaker
It is funny when I like go visit family back in Texas and they'll be they'll be like, oh congratulations on, and they'll mention like, yeah I saw you on that episode of the TV show. And I'm always like, oh, yeah, yeah. that is Yeah, yeah. And I was like, that was cool. That was cool. I don't, I barely even, I know I'm grateful for those opportunities when they happen.
01:07:51
Speaker
like The stuff that I am the most proud of yeah is like these weird little projects that I'm doing with friends. And it's so funny because I've realized in the public eye, sometimes people don't see that as valuable. But I'm like, that's the stuff when I think about the things I'm most proud of that I'm like, we did that. We did that.
01:08:08
Speaker
It's never like I was. Barista three and in yeah whatever you go, it was like that weird thing that we made or like, oh, look, we we did this. You wouldn't believe how little budget we had, but look how cool it looks. you know That's the stuff that I am the most proud of. um And I, for people that are starting out in that world, I think they're surprised when I say that, when I'm like the stuff you're probably gonna love the most is not gonna be the stuff that the most people see.
01:08:35
Speaker
um But also, isn't it amazing how you're like, yeah, I was on CSI. And some people would be like, that's all I want. That's what I want. Like a serious arc on this or like being in a star kid. form Like this is the dream. And you're like, well, what's the next thing?
01:08:54
Speaker
um yeah I know. Yeah. I was like, when I get staffed on a TV show, I'll be happy. No. but Yeah. I want the next one and I want my own TV show. It becomes so normal so fast. And then, yeah, you immediately go, okay, well, how this is not going last. So what how do i I feel like that's very everyone.
01:09:14
Speaker
We're like, next thing people. We're like, yeah well, yeah life is about creation. So what am I creating next? Hopefully in a positive way and not in low.
01:09:26
Speaker
um Like, you know, you know, the author Donna Tartt, she's one of my favorite authors. She wrote The Secret History. She takes like 15 years to write each novel. And I'm like, you go, girl. and I will be here waiting for it.
01:09:38
Speaker
i'll be waiting I'll be waiting. Yeah. Can I wait? Can I make a joke real quick? yes And we'll get it. and we'll get the next novel before GTA 6. but but boom yeah yeah ah came come out like absolutely not it must come out this year it has to come it has to come out um to me now all right so we we've got uh you're working on some novels uh we've got po party musical coming up soon uh librarians uh season two coming out in august is there anything else you'd like to plug before we wrap things up here
01:10:12
Speaker
What do I want to plug? I do. um There was another TV show I wanted to mention that people should watch. It was called Something Very Bad is Going to Happen. It's on Netflix.
01:10:23
Speaker
It's by this gal. Her name is Haley Z. Boston. And she got the support of the Duffer Brothers to make this absurd kind of like Hill House meets Twin Peaks wedding show about this girl who's going to meet her in-laws before they he she gets married to the love of her life. But then like What is going on in this town? It's it's bizarre and weird and it's great.
01:10:47
Speaker
It's great. It's great. I had a great time watching that show. It's excellent. What world am I in? This is so uncomfortable. I love it. yeah um It was a good it was a good vibe. It was very like Widow's Widow's Bay. Like what? I've never been here before, but I like it.
01:11:02
Speaker
okay Yeah, that's kind of what I wanted to to to plug other than Widow's Bay, but nothing for me. m by amazing um well this has been so much fun Sinead thank you for agreeing to chat with us uh yeah thank you being here so folks yeah just make sure you check out Shipwrecked Comedy for all their amazing catalog of shorts and vlogs and features and ah such great things and there are there are some tickets still left for that second weekend of Pope Party yeah
01:11:34
Speaker
We can plug that. Okay, great. Yes. Go go check out.
Event Announcements and Closing Notes
01:11:37
Speaker
Poe Party's happening this summer at the Gary Marshall Theater in Burbank. And it's running for two weekends. And you can get tickets. I think the first weekend is maybe sold out? Yeah, the weekend is sold out. Second weekend, I haven't checked in a while. But I think there's some tickets. And if not, digital tickets will be available. Schedule tickets, baby.
01:11:54
Speaker
There we go. so once again, thank you, Sinead. And then for us, ah you can reach us at sowhatareyouintopod at gmail.com. We will respond to your messages sometimes on the episode when we read them. And then also you can reach us at sowhatareyouintopod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Thank you all for listening. And as always, we'd like to say stay curious.
01:12:18
Speaker
Stay curious.