Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. i am your host, Jackson. I am your co-host, Matt. And from now on, this podcast is in the thick of 1758. Matt, we finally made it. I think technically, yeah, yeah, we did the battle on snowshoes number two, which is in 1758. But from this point on, we're talking to about more of the big stuff going on in 1758, the next campaigning season. We've made it.
Speaker: Yes, we're finally talking about the French and Indian War. Hey! No, we're talking about the... The French and Indian Skirmish, the French and Indian War. we're talking about the big battles now, so it'll be fun. I'm excited get into that as we get into, you know... how things are really heating up and see the different strategies for them on each side of the war. And this starts to turn it more into like, you know, you have large governments fighting each other now versus like smaller colonial powers or governments what we've seen before. So this is like truly when it starts entering like the world stage. And I know, think Jackson, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have an episode playing in the future to talk about the, like what's happening in India as well at this time.
Speaker: So like these large campaign seasons in North America are also part of like a kind of a global warming up of this war. Yeah, things that things have gotten hot. The war is quickly spreading to other areas of the globe. We will do a couple episodes here and there looking at some other theaters. But yeah, it's in it's in full swing.
Speaker: Large bodies of troops sent all over the world. Massive movements and engagements of navies. Unfortunately, so I guess ah for our listeners, maybe I built up your expectations too much. This specific episode we're recording right now is more big picture, the plans, the challenges, the opportunities for both the British and the French as they look at 1758. What are they planning? What are they hoping to achieve?
Speaker: ah So we're not covering a specific battle in this one, but next next episode is going to be the largest scale battle we've covered yet. So that'll be fun. And then we've got a special surprise coming in early September, which I'm really excited for.
Speaker: And then it'll keep going several more large battles. So this one will be more higher level, but we're going to get into some really cool action very, very soon.
Speaker: Yes, agreed. And well, so i I'll give the listeners a you know some background of what happened when we' were playing this episode. Jackson I looked at the the ah the big events in the Seven Years' War, the French-Indian War, and we're like, oh, yeah know we're getting... we're Not to the end, but you know we're I'd say, don't know what Jackson, like 70% through the war. And you you start looking at it and you're like, oh, there's only a few major things left. So Jackson and I were like, well, we need to get some filler episodes. It's all filler. We're actually going over the dress of the cabinet members in London during the 1750s. How they glowed themselves, what their favorite tailors were in London.
Speaker: yeah Jackson, that's ah episode 178, I think. So don't spoil that episode. But um no, no, obviously we want this to go on as long as possible because we enjoy doing this. So it's like, in ah I mean, the figure we're talking about today, I want to say is really like, know,
Speaker: no it has to be covered if we want to understand yeah we want to understand any of the battles happening in 1758 we gotta we gotta get the big picture here so this is actually very important don't this would be this episode now yes this would be similar to not having an episode about george washington and the revolutionary war so i think it's uh he's just no maybe not as important but know he's right up there with those type of figures so I'm excited to talk about Mr. Pitt in this episode. But first, before we get into it, another thing that has been heating up is our comment section, particularly on Spotify. And wanted to give a shout out to one special listener, Stephen, who has been leaving
Speaker: uh a few like comments on our episodes as he's been working through them and it's like it's really cool to like hear from someone who's like listening in real time and like his thoughts on the podcast so steven we appreciate you we hope that you and all the other listeners keep giving us ideas and feedback and everything that uh you know you want to hear from us and uh you know as like i said jackson and i are looking for filler episodes so you give us an idea we'll we'll run with it and talk about it because we love doing this. So yeah, I just wanted shout out Steven and shout out everyone else who's leaving us comments and liking our memes on Facebook, which I am not in control of. That is all Jackson. And he has an, I'm waiting, I'm waiting for you to lend a hand with your own meme, but for now it's just me.
Speaker: It's pretty, yeah, you're doing a pretty a pretty solid job on the the meme ah the mean corner. So I'll leave you to it. But yeah, just to say thanks again, everyone. I mean, I think Jax and I have probably reached, I think we're over probably 500 followers across all platforms now, which is like...
Speaker: 10 times more than we ever thought we would get. So it's just, it's really cool that, you know, we've been able to build an audience and we thank all of you for being a part of that. And yeah, if you ever want to you know, hear something different, hear us talk about something different or, you know, you want us to start a Patreon or something. Oh yeah. Just let us know. Yeah, we'll do it. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But um yeah yeah, this has been lot of fun. And thanks again, Stephen. We appreciate you and all of our other listeners.
Speaker: Yes, well said, Matt. Well said. All right, let's get into it. So we can't talk about British plans, projects, the campaign season at this middle point in the war without covering one figure in particular and that is william pitt uh after all i live in the area of pittsburgh and yep that uh you might be able to put two and two together pittsburgh is named after william pitt and that is just one reflection of the transformative nature that he had on the outcome of the war we've covered oh go ahead matt i was to say, Jackson, just really quick before we get into him. Are you related to William Pitt?
Speaker: I don't think so. technically have a teeny bit of English ancestry, but I i don't know of any connection to William Pitt. man. What a letdown. All right. Well, I guess you'll just have to you know stick with the unnamed French. Maybe I'm related Guillaume Pitt, but probably not William Pitt.
Speaker: But yeah, so William Pitt, we've covered up to this point many, many British defeats and setbacks, not just in North America, even some in Europe.
Speaker: Even the the main British army that has been operating in and around Hanover in Germany at this time, they're also seeing some defeats. ah it It hasn't been looking good. And I don't need to belabor that point because if you've if you're listening to this episode, you've probably listened to our other ones.
Speaker: you've you've been able to to ride along through all the British defeats. But this 1757, moving into 1758, is really the the midway point in the war where fortunes start to change. And a lot of that is due to William Pitt having a central role in the British government at this point. Now, there's I'm going to simplify a lot of things because...
Speaker: For one, understanding any other country's government system is a little difficult, especially going back in time 250 years. It's a little difficult. So I'll be simplifying a few things. Apologize to our British listeners. i know Adam in particular is from the UK. So if you if we if you catch us making any flagrant errors or complete misunderstandings of the British political system, please forgive us or write a comment so that listeners can beware.
Speaker: but ah Newcastle was kind of the the main head of the government at the beginning of the war, and he made some fumbles, and his government collapses. And then pitt ends up kind of taking a central role in the government, and funnily enough, he and Newcastle do not like each other.
Speaker: And he's part of his stipulation as he's forming his government is Newcastle can have no place in it. But all sorts of political deadlock kind of breaks that up. But then shortly later in 1757, Pitt comes back. He and Newcastle find this special kind of working arrangement. So Pitt, he's the secretary of the state for the Southern Department, which correlates with, you know, at that point, there was the Northern Department and the Southern Department in Great Britain.
Speaker: Northern department was like diplomatic relationships and planning with like Northern Europe, essentially. And then the Southern department was for plans and projects with Southern Europe, mostly. But then also importantly for for our purposes, the overseas colonies as well. So that's why when we're talking about Pitt making these campaign plans, Pitt sending letters and orders to some of the generals over in the New World. It's because that's in his kind of his sphere of influence, under his his command here in the British government. And somehow, by this point, Newcastle and Pitt, they they figured out how to work together. Newcastle's kind of handling the politics side of things, and then William Pitt is handling the military plans, and they they've they figured out how to overcome their rocky relationship.
Speaker: Now, it had taken Pitt a while to get to this point because the king really didn't like him. Oh, yes. I wanted to talk about that. Yeah, please go ahead. Oh, yeah. No, I i didn't really have much to say. about but the king The king didn't like him. But yeah, William Pitt was kind of under fire his entire career in Parliament. And a lot of that he brought on himself. He was a very fo cool ah a vocal, I would say, opponent to the government, especially Robert Walpole when he was in Parliament. Pitt was famous for critiquing him and the king. and particular, in in particularly he didn't like King George II's focus on Hanover Prussia. He thought it was a waste of time. And as I think we might have touched on this before, but ah
Speaker: george ii's family was from prussia and he was still uh was yeah and he was he was he was born in hanover and raised there too so he was i think he was the last like british king of this dynasty to be born outside of england i think but he was very personally invested in what was going on in germany specifically hanover and in other uh areas of germany uh so yeah Pitt was at odds with that because he was more of a, the main idea was that we need to be less concerned with what's going on in Germany, less tethered to Hanover and protecting Hanover. And we need to be more focused on our overseas colonies, expanding our empire and our trade and our Navy.
Speaker: We don't need to be looking over to Germany all the time. Sorry, keep going. No, that's that's really what I wanted to touch on, was just this kind of fundamental strategic difference between the King and and Pitt's plan. and i Also, I would say the rest of the British Parliament was also very Hanover friendly. And I think it was for like the reason behind that was they wanted to you know stay on good terms with the king, who had obviously much more power back then. So you you had this parliament that was kind of you know ah doing whatever the king wanted and focusing so much on Hanover. And then Pitt comes in very vocal, very much against like the establishment, which would have been like Newcastle and Walpole and like those other guys that were ousted for a while, but then you know they come back from his partnership, as Jackson mentioned. So yeah, he he kind of came up and against all odds. Although I wouldn't say against all odds. And Jackson, I don't know if I'm getting ahead of you, but to touch on some of his background, he He didn't grow up like poor. And it's funny, his nickname, at least I'm assuming in British history, and as we know him would be the Great Commoner. That's how the people of Britain knew him. But he wasn't really a commoner. his His grandfather had made a fortune in India. Yeah.
Speaker: so before, before, Pitt was even born, his family had a bunch of wealth. He ended up attending Oxford. I think he went to the university of Utrecht, which is funny. We've talked about the treaty of Utrecht before, but, um, he went to the university of Utrecht. He, uh,
Speaker: I believe when he made it to Oxford, he ended up leaving without a degree because he had a severe case of gout, which is what he suffered with his entire life. So he actually, i mean, like, I guess maybe that's why he was known as a great commoner because he didn't like, he technically wasn't a graduate of a fancy school. And then he, you know, goes into British government. I think he starts as like an MP and then he takes title to this,
Speaker: land i'm trying to remember what it was called it was a certain borough uh britain jackson do you have do you know what i'm talking about i can't think of the name of it off the top of my head not sure um but anyway oh the rotten borough of old sarum sarum uh uk listeners please correct us on how to say that But it was like a family controlled area within Britain. It was like his first like real title or rule within British government. And then he gained fame from that position as being an orator. Like he would you know do public speeches against the government and like we get the people riled up. So that kind of like grew his name is you know as the great commoner. But he himself, I would not say was a commoner. He was definitely someone who,
Speaker: Probably most likely would have ended up in British politics, regardless. But yeah, there's ah some background for him. And then like, as as we said, he wasn't, he wasn't really a liked person in in the British government. So it's kind of impressive that he was able to stick around for as long as he did.
Speaker: Yeah, I think and perhaps also leading into the nickname of the great commoner is he was beloved by a lot of well common people and that the sheer popularity he got, especially for his his skills in Parliament, giving speeches, persuading, that got a lot of popular support. So even if at times some members of the government probably wanted to get rid of him and never see him again,
Speaker: He was just too big of a force to ignore. And eventually, I think King George II just had to begrudgingly work with him and use him, even though they were quite at odds for a good chunk of time.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. so Pitt, he by mid-end of 1757, he and Newcastle are starting this odd, but it's it's functioning well partnership of sharing the government.
Speaker: And Pitt is going to be creating the campaign plans for 1758. I think he had a hand in the 1757 plans, but then that's like when governments were...
Speaker: falling apart and then being reformed so he was in power then out of power and then now he's he's back in power now uh so i don't know how much he may he may have been responsible for the 1757 louisbourg expedition failure i think there's just a lot of political chaos in uh in great britain at that point so i'm not sure to his involvement there maybe it was just the execution that was missing and not so much the plan Yeah, i' I'm trying to remember because I know when we talked back about Lord Loudon, I feel like there were some letters back and forth between Loudon and Pitt at that time. I think now that I'm saying it, I think I'm remembering that more. I think Loudon was writing back to Pitt about like what had happened. But I don't think this was like, I don't think the capture of Louisburg when Loudon was supposed to was part of this like master plan that we'll talk about that later. pit develops. I think he wanted to take Louisburg, but I also don't know if he directed it, but he was, he was involved at least in the planning of it.
Speaker: And, you know, I bet the, the late start to Louisburg expedition in 1757 was probably partially due to some of this political chaos, as well as some of the logistical issues that they had. Oh yeah. Because we, we had mentioned how loud and ah Didn't I think in your research he had gotten like contradictory instructions or something or he had instructions and then they were later corrected and he had to like adapt to that anyway.
Speaker: So poor Loudon though by the end of 1757 he is out. Pitt recalls him, demotes him and he's going to be replaced by Abercrombie.
Speaker: I don't know if you know his first name. I just have him in my notes all that all over his Abercrombie. I feel like it's George Abercrombie, but I don't want to wanna to speak ahead. We'll tentatively say George.
Speaker: Unfortunately, this isn't the best choice. Pitt is kind of, his hands are tied with the British political system of that time. There's a lot of, you know, it's nepotism, a lot of who you know, a lot of making appointments and picks, I guess just like in any political environment where...
Speaker: it's not so much the best person for the job ah so it was james abercrombie james that terrible terrible co-host sorry to interrupt um so james abercrombie it wasn't the best pick but it was more just because he was like the least offensive pick he would he would offend the the least amount of people in this very uh tentative very fluctuating british political environment but ah So Abercrombie is now the the head leader for North American warfare in the New World.
Speaker: And he is supported by Amherst, Forbes, Howe, and Wolf. And we will talk a little bit more about Amherst and Wolf in the next episode. And then a little bit later down the line, talk more about Forbes and Howe and a little bit more into Abercrombie as well. One thing Jackson I wanted to touch on when we were talking about these names, that this was a very aggressive set of generals that Pitt like had helped handpick for these sorts of ah for the expedition that he's going to plan. So if if any of our listeners are familiar with the Civil War history,
Speaker: like when you had McClellan and some of the, like the more passive union generals that basically had to be wiped out of her place with like, um, with like Ulysses S. Grant and some more, like more of the aggressive bulldog generals to really like finish that war. That's essentially what, Pitt's doing here. So like this, like Wolf and Amherst, like they're, they're very aggressive. They want to attack. Uh, whereas like the generals that were taken out like Loudon and some of the other, uh,
Speaker: commanders that we talked about were more passive and they were more you know they they like more like doing you know raiding and in short short engagements rather than you know a knockout blow so this is kind of like pitt's dream team of aggressive generals that he's sending to the states Or to the states, to the colonies, to the future states. States don't exist.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a good observation. And we'll definitely go into more of their their strategies and their plans for attack in the coming episodes. But the general plan for 1758 for the British created by Pitt.
Speaker: And then he's working with John Ligonier, who is the commander in chief of, I think, the in might have been the entire British armed forces at that time all across the globe.
Speaker: And then i just have Anson here. I should have got Anson's first name. My notes are a little bit lacking, jumping all over the the European political scene here. But he's working with a couple others to create these plans. So starting from the 1st of May, partially in order to avoid the delays that brought last year's expedition to pointlessness, he's picking a three-pronged attack, which Isn't too dissimilar from Newcastle's four pronged attack for 17. Too many prongs. to run Too many prongs. That was the only thing wrong with that. ah So the first one.
Speaker: There will be about 25,000 soldiers committed, led by Abercrombie, supported by Howe, to take Crown Point, which again is where Fort Saint-Frédéric is, but first they'll to go through Fort Carrion.
Speaker: And then they'll go up those waterways in eastern New York to attack either Montreal or Quebec or both. The second prong is going to be about 14,000 mostly regulars attacking Louisbourg before moving on to Quebec. And that's going to be led by Amherst, Wolff, and then Edward Boscoen's fleet.
Speaker: And then the third prong, is about 7,000 mostly provincials led by Forbes, and they're going to attack Fort Duquesne. So we kind of have a ah retreading of Braddock's target for the the third prong.
Speaker: We have, I guess, the Louisbourg attack kind of parallels the the British targeting Fort Beaussejour in Acadia. You know, it's not terribly far from that. true And then the first prong is like William Johnson's route, basically up into those eastern New York lake systems heading towards Montreal.
Speaker: So we're we're echoing the paths from three years prior. The only prong that's missing, if you'll remember, is Well, now the British don't have Oswego anymore or they're just starting to to return there and start to rebuild it ah somewhere around this time. But in Newcastle's plan from back then, they also had a prong attacking Fort Niagara as well. But that is, they're scratching that one.
Speaker: three prongs only, and they're committing lots of soldiers to these expeditions. If you remember Braddock, he had about, I think just like two or 3000 total in his army.
Speaker: And then we're seeing 7,000 sent to Fort Duquesne this time. yeah And 14,000 for Louisbourg. I think that's four more thousand in the 1757 expedition and soldiers.
Speaker: heading up to attack Fort Carillon and then go onwards north from there. So this is roughly all together. There's going to be close to 50,000 total soldiers between the regulars and provincials.
Speaker: That's about two thirds of the entire population of New France, including women and children. So that's for some some scale perspective. We've talked about the huge population difference before, but Think, that's like if someone was invading the United States today, they would have like 200 million soldiers, essentially. yeah So that's crazy numbers.
Speaker: Crazy numbers. The French... On their side, they've got about 9,000 regular troops between those who came from France and the the Troupe de la Marine.
Speaker: And then they've got about 10,000 militiamen that will be available for duty. So they've got about 19,000, perhaps, roughly. And that's going against the British 50,000 for 1758.
Speaker: Britain is going all in on the colonial war this year. Yes, to piggyback off that, um in Walter Borman's book, The French and Indian War, which I think we've talked about before in this podcast, and I encourage all of our listeners to read, or as I do listen to on car long car drives, because the audio book is very good. In that book, he says where Pitt sent 25,000, the French sent 2,500, which is a... Yeah, I remember that line. I read that same line and that struck me too. Yeah. yes so we'll We'll get into what France was thinking, but yeah, go on. Well, Jackson, I have a question for you. So if Pitt was sending all of these troops to the colonies, how could he possibly defend Hanover?
Speaker: So general... the general British strategy up to this point was subsidize Frederick the Great and have him do most of the fighting in Germany. But they did have an expeditionary force. i think it was called the Army of Observation that was fighting in and around Hanover.
Speaker: Unfortunately for them, they got beat pretty bad by the French and that force was effectively neutralized. But Pitts, so Pitts' plan, he he's kind of famous for not wanting to get involved in the German war, not sending British soldiers to go fight in Germany.
Speaker: However, Frederick the Great and and the British, their alliances it's kind of on the edge at this point because Frederick is the gray is like, I'm fighting all these battles. I'm, I'm, I beat Austria. I beat France, two big, uh, two big battles in 1757, which kind of changed the course of the world. We'll discuss a little bit about, but he's like, I need more British involvement over here. Or, you know, maybe, maybe we're done. Maybe I'll stop protecting Hanover because Hanover actually got invaded and occupied by the French, uh, for like around a year, but then they got chased back out.
Speaker: ah So Pitt, as much as it pains him because he doesn't want to get involved in the and commit troops to the Germany, he ends up committing to send some more troops over there to Germany. I'm trying to remember...
Speaker: I don't think of the exact amount open, but originally the strategy was, yeah, i just subsidize Frederick the Great. Eventually at this point though, Britain's gonna have to start ah both committing more troops and they're gonna have to start harassing the French coasts with these descents, these like raids on different port settlements that maybe we'll do an episode about one of those. There's some interesting stuff that happens with there, but. So yes, Pitt is, he's having to go back on his word a little bit and start to commit some more troops to the Germans front. That was a very good answer for a question that I thought the answer would be, he didn't.
Speaker: but No, you're right. You're completely right. I mean, i yeah, I think though, I think we can assume that, you know, the opposite of like what what Walter Portman says is true for Hanover, where the front said 25,000. the british said twenty five roger i think the french's army in uh like 1757 was getting close to like a hundred thousand in the european war which is insane because yeah over the whole course of the war i believe the french only sent like five to six thousand regulars to new france but they were throwing a hundred thousand in these uh campaigns in germany so yeah different priorities and we'll get into that uh
Speaker: momentarily, i wanted to cover some of Pitt's reforms that made him so popular in the colonies before we switch over to France. I don't know if you have anything else on Pitt or the British outside of that before we we move along. um No, not really. i think I did want to mention, i guess this is probably way ahead of us, but after after the war, so don't worry any listeners, we're not going to get to after the war for a very long time, but
Speaker: After the war, it was funny when Pitt like finally resigned his post. He didn't leave until I think around 1761. think Yeah. he One of the reasons he resigned was because after after the war, he wanted to go fight the Spanish in the colonies. So he was ah he very much a General MacArthur type type character. He wanted to keep going. And the British government said, especially I think King George III came in right around 1761. And no I think the British populace and the government wanted no more war. And so he resigned because of that. So was just an interesting tidbit about Pitt. He he wanted to you know fight to last breath. so
Speaker: Yeah, we'll we'll probably eventually go over that because it it will bring in some changes for the New World. Just a reminder for listeners, the French and Indian War may have been all wrapped up and concluded by 1761, but the broader Seven Years' War was still going on, even though France was pretty much out of gas. But...
Speaker: ah Yeah, they as a teaser, France was courting Spain for a long time to join them in the war and inject some much needed strength and navy to their forces with a dynasty change, not a dynasty change, like a king. King dies, a new prince succeeds, ascends to the throne.
Speaker: Spain will join the war eventually, but it's like way too late to do anything. And that is what Pitt was trying to, he was, trying I believe, trying to get the British to just declare preemptive war on Spain before they could be persuaded to join the French cause at the end of the Seven Years' War.
Speaker: But we'll probably go over a little bit of that, I don't know, months and months and months from now. Years from now, we'll touch on that again. But yeah, just a a fun tidbit. when i When I read about that, I was like, oh, that sounds a lot like General MacArthur wanting to attack China after we defeated Japan. but ah Yeah, let's not do that, MacArthur. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's all I had.
Speaker: Okay, yeah. um So... Pitt introduced some reforms for the colonies that really changed the momentum and the morale over there. Because if you remember 1757, the lowest of the low for the colonies, for Britain as a whole, they had suffered some devastating losses, but Pitt, when he comes to power, he comes up with these plans. He comes up with some reforms that I'll mention here.
Speaker: uh, changed the game, injected new life into the colon colonial cause. So there were, for example, Loudon, he had struggled to get the colonies to raise the desired amount of troops for his campaign.
Speaker: For example, Massachusetts, he had asked them to provide 2000, just 2000 militiamen, but they did not. And that was just, that was and for 1757.
Speaker: Part of the reason was is that the colonies would have to bear most of the most or all of the expenses of outfitting and sending out these these troops. And then we've covered some things like it really irked Washington how ah doesn't It didn't matter what your rank was in a colonial military unit.
Speaker: any british regular but Any British officer would be superior to you. Even if he was the the lowest rank officer, he could make the highest rank colonial officer subordinate to him.
Speaker: Pitt is going to reverse that for the most part. So he is going to have American or you know, we'll mean colonial. Colonial officers up to the rank of colonel are not automatically subordinate to British officers of equal or lower rank.
Speaker: So he's really inviting the colonies to collaborate with the british overall British war effort rather than just being like mindless subjects that have to be obeyed that you know Braddock and Loudon and those figures more embodied.
Speaker: Another change is that the British government is now going to cover most of the expenses of the militia. So the, uh, to show just how quickly that changed things, the colonies raised thousands of soldiers and Massachusetts. Now remember Massachusetts couldn't muster 2000 men for Loudoun, but they suddenly provided 7,000 militia for 1758 campaign.
Speaker: for the seventeen fifty eight campaign so he's really oh and one other thing a previous ordinance that had really bothered the co colonists under loud and braddock uh they were having to they were forcing civilians to lodge troops in their homes uh is now in our is it the bill of rights or the constitution in general but i think it's the bill of rights it's like shoot it's I forget what the number is. of the yeah it's like, butman is it the Third Amendment? I think it might be the third. Yeah, it's one no one talks about because it's not really relevant anymore.
Speaker: i guess, well, no, you know, they the the Bill of Rights they and the amendments, they all come back in interesting ways, even in the modern era. Yes, it's the Third Amendment. I was right. Okay. Yeah. So they would force civilians to lodge troops.
Speaker: No quartering of soldiers. Yes, the quartering of soldiers. And Loudon, he had a very unpopular embargo on the colonial ports because he wanted to stamp out the illegal trade with Canada. So there were some British colonists who were trading with Canada, even in the middle of wartime, you know, as you know, where there's money to be made, people will take on risks.
Speaker: So he, I think even like just completely shuts down commercial traffic in some of like the New England ports to try to stamp out this trade. And that is very unpopular.
Speaker: So Pitt's changes are very welcome to the colonists. They are energized. They have some new life. they're They're ready to try again for some of these 1758 plans. The only main negative with all this is that the cost of the war is going to mount ah significantly from this point onwards.
Speaker: I'd read somewhere that... The Seven Years' War cost Britain over twice as much per year as the last war did, the War of Austrian Succession. Because, you know, they're financing Prussia and they're going all in on the colonial war.
Speaker: And now they're financing a lot of the colonial military costs. So, you know, the the tallies... rising. their Their financial system is robust enough to to handle it and keep things moving. But Matt, are we going to see high debt and ah needing to find ways to raise more money for the government? Is that going to be a problem for the the British Empire in, I don't know, the seventeen seventy s or something like that Well, no, of course it won't. Obviously they're going to be appreciative of these policies that Pitt put in place to give the columnist more respect. and And they'll understand they'll have to, you know, maybe take some extra taxes to, you know, pay for everything. Yeah. They'll pay it willingly. Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, we'll definitely get into more of that once we hit the the end of the war and the aftermath of it. But that's just a a sneak peek. Spending is going into overdrive here in the middle of the war. I will say, not to get into it, but this war, like us talking about and learning about this war does make the...
Speaker: revolutionary war seem even less like it just it's it's kind of funny um or not funny but wild that the colonists protested so much about paying the taxes because we were as we've talked about they were being like actively attacked and scalped for several years so it was certainly an issue and a very big problem for the colonies that this war was going on it was not just like some tangential frontier war but anyways Yeah, the French Union War provides a lot of context for the American Revolution, which starts pretty much the overall movement starts right at the end of this war and going onwards.
Speaker: that'll be That'll be for the future. All right, so we're ready to move on to France and what what they're looking at. Yes, sir. All right. There's a quote from Bougainville, our old friend Bougainville, who has recorded so much.
Speaker: He said regarding 1758, I think this was sometime during the winter before, for my part, I do not doubt but that they, the British, will make the greatest efforts and that this campaign, lost or won on their part, will be the last.
Speaker: He's not exactly right, but he is the spirit of what he's saying is is pretty pretty spot on And because this really is the turning point. And this 1758 campaign is going to be pretty decisive. War's not over by the end of the year, but it's almost guaranteed by that point.
Speaker: So Bougainville as well, when he's he's writing an entry in his journal and he's kind of tallying up the some of the problems France is facing in their military effort, as well as their advantages.
Speaker: And I had meant to translate this in advance. So it might be a little halting here in my my speech, but he's saying so these are the the problems that are facing few savages, those from the upper countries destroyed by the smallpox are upset with us and they accuse us to, of having given them bad medicine. Yeah.
Speaker: Few goods and supplies have arrived. A late season which seems to threaten a harvest even worse than the last one. The enemy with an army more numerous than all of Canada united. What are our advantages?
Speaker: A lot of courage, goodwill, playing well, happiness. There are our resources. Motivational. Yeah.
Speaker: So you can see how the ah threatening reality is setting in for the French. They know, at least the French that are in Canada, they know how dire things are starting to look, especially as supplies and troops still aren't really coming in any meaningful way from France.
Speaker: Good thing they have courage, but they've got courage and happiness and goodwill. Jackson, would have been it would have been really funny when you said that you forgot to translate it. You should have just started reading in French. and I could. but Sorry. don't want to read a 30 second quote in French and then just be like, now now chew on that. listen Yeah, think about that for a second.
Speaker: So regarding the first part where he's talking about a few Indians coming to their support. ah Yeah, there's a huge change from 1757. We saw I think it was about 1800 Indians of almost 40 different tribes assemble and join the French in their attack in New York.
Speaker: But a few changes have happened to really dampen those relationships. So first, right after the Battle of Fort William Henry, in that confusing aftermath where some of the Indians are taking prisoners and running off with them, the French are trying to get them back because they're like, oh, no, this our agreement was broken. This is going to be so bad.
Speaker: ah The natives do not take kindly to the French trying to take back their prisoners or to reprimand them for taking these prisoners, taking you know the scalps.
Speaker: But then also, as we touched in that our episode on that battle, smallpox was spread from that battle into As these native warriors returned home right after the battle, they brought smallpox back with them. And so a lot of the villages in the upper Great Lakes were suffering from smallpox. So they're dealing with that.
Speaker: The Indians often blame this on the French. And whereas in the previous year, parties of Indian warriors were coming almost every week to the to New France to join the military, Bougainville records only one party of Indians arriving from the Great Lakes during the winter.
Speaker: So the the French and Indian War is quickly turning into just the French War from 1758 onwards. On the second part of what he mentioned, there's been a lot of shortages.
Speaker: Since the episode on Oswego, we've started to mention you know the warning signs until other episodes. The food shortage is critical. As the winter 1757 going to 1758 moves on and goes into spring, gets even worse.
Speaker: moves on and goes into spring it gets even worse By mid-April 1758, there's only two ounces of daily bread rations being given out. And then famine hits officially in May 1758.
Speaker: And that alone at this point in the year, it just eliminates any chance of offensive action in New France of any of any size for that whole year. their Their main hope is to just hold out until some more supplies and troops can arrive from France.
Speaker: uh britain as we'll talk a little bit more about next episode they're starting to take control of the seas by this point 1758 they're uh you know their their momentum's going and they're starting to get some clear superiority over the seas at this point and they are intercepting a lot of shipments of very valuable supplies that are coming to new france as an example there's 15 ships coming over the winter to New France carrying supplies that had been intercepted by the British. Some do slip through and I think by mid-May a valuable ship or convoy makes it into Quebec and relieves the famine but the situation, the food situation is still very, very precarious. Jackson, I got distracted there for a second. I looked up how much two ounces of bread Is and is it a really small, small, tiny amount? Yes, it could be anywhere from two slices of bread to one slice of bread, depending on the bread. So, I mean, you think of that. Could you you live on that for a day? Like, that's just, that's insane.
Speaker: ah single slice of bread. Yeah, I don't know. Like if you took a typical family, i don't know what like would they have no food other than that? Or would they have some like basic stews and some like old vegetables and the slice of bread?
Speaker: I'm not exactly sure how that looked for the typical person. But either way, by May, people were starving. So yeah very serious situation there. yeah As far as the, I guess that wasn't mentioned in Bougainville's thing, but another issue is the militiamen.
Speaker: So in order to just survive militarily, New France needs to keep calling up these militiamen to attack and raids and to defend. But that has the double-edged sword of depriving the farms of most of their workers especially during the growing months or the harvesting months we saw that come in with fort william henry how the militiamen after the battle were very very eager to get back home and try to to reap in the harvest before it was too late because they know they were needed back home they had families to feed they couldn't uh keep fighting into the winter so this is kind of like a vicious cycle where new france
Speaker: absolutely needs these militiamen to fight, but that also makes this the food supply situation even more precarious. And then, you know, on and on and on it goes. And the British at this point are just keep getting continuous new boatloads of fresh troops from Europe.
Speaker: And the the Canadians can only watch with envy as that happens. The last big challenge for the French in Canada is that the relationship between Montcalm, the military leader who's actually executing the plans, and then Vaudreuil, the overall governor general of New France, who's coming up with the plans and giving the orders.
Speaker: ah They never really got along well, but it is getting abysmal now. Montcalm is suspecting and blaming Vaudray of you know framing his orders and his instructions in such a way as to throw blame on Montcalm because Vaudray seems to to know they're going to have some some big losses this year. But the way he's framing the instructions says, like, I've been carefully consulting with Montcalm and and coming up with these plans. But Moncombe is or feels like he's been kept in the dark of a lot of these higher up strategic conversations to his frustration. So he's like, I'm not signing or accepting any, you know, anything you send to me where it says that I was consulted because I wasn't consulted.
Speaker: So they're like openly feuding. And when leadership hates each other, you know, that's going to have a good result. It's going to go well. fighting Right. Right.
Speaker: yeah So I've got a little bit more ah regarding Europe. So we mentioned how France is focused on Europe and much to the detriment of new France. So after beginning of the Seven Years' War, when Prussia invades Saxony in 1756, there were many people in the French government, especially the minister of war, Argençon,
Speaker: who advocated a focus on the European front of the war. The colonies weren't forgotten. you know They did send like about 3,000 soldiers in 1755. They sent a Diascow to lead the troops and then Montcalm the next year with some extra troops.
Speaker: But France's focus is now split between two fronts. And originally, the the French government thought that with just one or two years, one or two seasons and Prussia, you know, they'll be destroyed between them and Austria. And then then they can focus on the colonial war and the Navy and and that situation.
Speaker: Bernice, who is one of the French, notable French statement statesmen and ministers at that point, I forget his exact position, but he's ah he comes up a lot in looking at sources in this period.
Speaker: But he mentions how Argençon, at least I think it was coming from him, said that they would ruin France. Here's another paragraph that I forgot to translate ahead of time. but They were going to ruin France by eternalizing the war and that their allies, you know Austria mainly, with the France's money, isn't going to be pressed, isn't going to be ah isn't going to be hurrying to finish the war because you know they're not paying for it because France is giving money to Austria to help them.
Speaker: And that the king will have no influence in Germany, or at least he would be deprived of first credit if he didn't act with his own troops. So basically saying like, if we're we're just if we if we just finance Austria, kind of like the British are doing Prussia, it's just going to be a waste of money because we're not going to get any like real extra influence in Germany.
Speaker: We're not fighting there. It's going to be Austria that gets all the gains. And then he finishes with, in one word, it was necessary. It was necessary or not to either be fully into the war in Germany or not even get involved at all.
Speaker: And he says, yeah we to try to to try to finish it in one or two campaigns at the most by employing 150,000 men. So I'm not sure if this is a retrospective from Argençon or if this is like at the time when Bernice was recording this, but provides some perspective in the the French of concerns and kind of um being ambivalent, vacillating between Do we go all in on the German war?
Speaker: Do we also try to compete with Britain overseas? But eventually they're going all in on the German war. But by the end of 1757, Frederick the Great, and I think it's probably from these battles in this war that he gets the name the Great, he scores a victory, a huge victory against Austria and kind of ends Austria's hopes for a quick end to the war. And then he scores a huge victory in the same season against the massive French army.
Speaker: and that's dashing any French hopes of a quick end to the German war. So it's quickly becoming a money pit, troop pit, and it's this alliance with Austria. Yes, a pit. Yes. And there's the episode. i So yeah, ah France, which already got into this alliance with Austria that really didn't,
Speaker: benefit france much at all now they're getting dragged into this war they're trying to throw like everything in it to just bring a decisive end frederick spoils that decisive end and now it's it's just sapping away at french money and troops and supplies and they're they're very much forgetting the colonies at this point yeah Yeah, like you mentioned, I know you said they were dragged into it, but it was also like a part willingness on their end. to I mean, they but they signed the alliance. They they did the negotiations. they They signed with it. And I remember, I think, reacting at the, when we talked about the diplomatic revolution, kind of bewildered. i was just like, France didn't really have much to game. Like, it was ah a check against Prussia, a counterweight against them, but...
Speaker: Besides that, there wasn't much tangible tangible gain so much from France. at Austria definitely got the better of those negotiations, that's for sure. For sure.
Speaker: Because, yeah, I know they had mentioned, like, Austria couldn't help ah France in the the naval or colonial war at all. Austria's not going to have a significant navy, and they're going to be stuck in the Mediterranean, even if they can get many ships out there. But, yeah, anyway, regardless.
Speaker: um So they hope for a quick victory in Prussia. War always ends up lasting longer than you hope. And it was catastrophic for France at this point. So we see this <unk> kind of parallel, these, I guess, opposite parallels where as France devotes more and more time, money, energy troops into Germany,
Speaker: When William Pitt and his allies take control of the British government, essentially, they're going all in on the colonial war or 90% in on the colonial war. So it's kind of like a perfect storm where France is a essentially abandoning its colonies to themselves at the same time that Britain is throwing 50,000 men to snatch every ah French colony, French possession they can find in the new world.
Speaker: I've thought of that so many times when we've been researching this war, like how how much the outcome of the war could be explained just by simple numbers. like you know Obviously, we talk about battlefield strategy and tactics and overall like you know how the governments viewed the war and stuff. But really, i mean it comes it boils down to the fact that... ah England had that many more men in the colonies versus what France had to the point where like if if France knows I guess spoiler if France would have won this war, it would be like, oh, my gosh, that was such an underdog victory. Like it was almost implausible for them to win. But at this point in the war, it's Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's like if you're playing, our listeners are familiar with Risk and you have like 50 stacks of troops on one ah one one property and then you move it to another country and that your and your opponent has two. It's like, Yeah, two troops can only roll sixes for so many times in a row before probability is against them. Yeah, theoretically, they could win. Will they win? No, it's so similar to that. it's It's kind of funny. But yeah, I mean, obviously, we're still going to dive into the battles and like the strategy of like how the attacks went down. But it is so funny. Like at the core of it, it was a numbers game. Pitt just allocated numbers to one theater that France didn't.
Speaker: Up to this point, Britain has kind of been like a horde army, to use like a video or board game term, you know, just having the numbers and throwing them at the French. We'll see, though, with all these reforms, the the fresh new leadership changes in the coming episodes, the British will start to score some very significant victories. And it's not just because they have more people. There's some very smart tactical stuff going on that we'll dive into. But I do have a great quote here to probably end on it here from Pitt. It was in the book that I drew most of my research on for this episode, La Guerre de Satan.
Speaker: So it's originally in French, but translated into English. I don't know exactly like what letter this came from or what speech, but he's quoted as saying America, like North America, was conquered in Germany.
Speaker: Oh, that's i have yeah i had I had a similar quote. It was Canada was won on the Rhine. so yeah So yeah, same, same idea. So yeah, with the French kind of growing obsession and like sunk cost fallacy into Germany, that is what wins the war essentially for Great Britain because they have now free reign everywhere else on the globe to attack France.
Speaker: That was a great episode. And I, I think that we did, hopefully we did pit justice. Our UK listeners can correct us if we were wrong on any yeah tangible some ah technical errors, but I think the gist and the spirit of it was, was correct.
Speaker: Yeah, Pitt's a fascinating person, and we're going to talk about him, as Jackson mentioned, in like many episodes to come. Because here on out, it's this is Pitt's like master plan in action. So we'll certainly talk about why he made decisions and why like why each prong was part of his overall attack as we get into those battles, which I'm very much looking forward to. um but yeah i hope this gave our especially our american listeners a good background who pitt was and um and why we have a city named after him a very a very beautiful city in pittsburgh yes very lovely yeah best most beautiful in the united states i'd say yes for sure for sure
Speaker: I did not expect us to talk for 55 minutes about these like strategic challenges and political priorities, but i mean there's a lot of stuff to talk about. i guess my notes are pretty long.
Speaker: And it's all important stuff to understand the war in its context, especially as it transforms from here on out. Okay. We do like to talk. That's why we started a podcast. I just love the sound of my own voice. I'm so glad I'm the one editing our episodes so I can just re-listen to everything say.
Speaker: No. But yeah, thanks for sticking with us. If you made it through all 55 minutes, give us a comment saying, I survived the most boring episode of Tales from the Fulton Indian War.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Anything else you have to add before we close here, Matt? I'll do my famous thing and say no and then add something. No, no, no. Nothing really to add. Looking forward to our next episodes. And the surprise coming up. I thought it was end of August, but I know you said that. I think with the timing of episodes coming out, we might put it out at the beginning of September just so that we're not inundating our listeners with bam, bam, bam, three episodes in a row and then like a month silence from us. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: Understood. Understood. So yeah. Yeah. Tune back in. Well, it's obviously tune back in when we release our next episode, but also then tune in for the surprise episode, which I think is going to be pretty awesome. So I'm excited for that one. And yeah, looking forward to getting into the nitty gritty of the the French and Indian War.
Speaker: I feel like you say that every episode. I know. It's like every time. And then and then we do a sideshow but or a sideshow episode about something else. So I just, yeah, it's a, it's, that's my drinking game. Every time I say we're getting to the nitty gritty of the war. retrospective Retrospective drinking game. For anyone who's going to re-listen through all the episodes, you can partake in that. First, we love you. Second, yes, do that.
Speaker: All right. Well, thank you all for listening. We will be back very soon. Have a great night. Bye.
