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Life Hinges On These Conversations: Here's What they Are & How to Navigate Them
74 Plays2 years ago
Ridley Barron and Dan Sanchez engage in a candid conversation on the importance of confronting challenging situations and behaviors with positivity, empathy, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Drawing on biblical teachings and personal experiences, they delve into the nuances of crucial conversations, church discipline, and the impact of avoiding conflict resolution. Join us as we navigate the complexities of confrontation and discover the transformative power of seeking restoration and reconciliation within the church and beyond.
Links to Books Mentioned:
• 9 Marks of a Healthy Church: https://www.amazon.com/Nine-Marks-Healthy-Church-9Marks/dp/1433578115/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3RXN39ULNTHMN&keywords=nine+marks+of+a+healthy+church+by+mark+dever&qid=1701878336&s=books&sprefix=nine+marks+of+a+he%2Cstripbooks%2C68&sr=1-1
• How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2FQT1KGXMMR2Y&keywords=how+to+win+friends+and+influence+people&qid=1701876921&s=books&sprefix=how+to+win+fr%2Cstripbooks%2C91&sr=1-1
• Crucial Conversations: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/1260474186/ref=sr_1_1?crid=352O4RGMDG1US&keywords=crucial+conversations&qid=1701876955&s=books&sprefix=crucial+conversations%2Cstripbooks%2C82&sr=1-1
Timestamps:
00:00 Podcast discusses conflict resolution and pursuing like-mindedness.
03:44 Resolve conflicts through a series of steps.
09:38 Healthy churches have strong system of accountability.
12:32 Facing conflict head-on, using prayer, seeking resolution.
16:23 Caution in being too formulaic, dependent on circumstances.
17:28 Back off when conversations turn unproductive.
23:18 Address family struggles in open, loving conversation.
24:42 Self-examination is key before addressing hurt.
28:43 Recommended books for healthy church and relationships.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sermon Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to another Grove Hill Church podcast where I'm here with Ridley Baron the pastor of our church Kind of going into the last Sunday's Sermon which you wrapped up Philippians and it was kind of like that last chapter Philippians lots of strong content in there Yeah, but the part that I'd love to dive into is around pursuing like-mindedness which you got into Almost started getting to the nitty-gritty and I want to go even deeper in this show around dealing with
00:00:29
Speaker
Conflict,
The Role of Crucial Conversations in Life Decisions
00:00:30
Speaker
right? It's like the practical side. It's the one thing we probably all need to do more of and do better in but If we're honest we most of us run away from I know I do and it still is something that I can get better at so I'm looking forward to today's conversation around and
00:00:46
Speaker
How to deal with conflict and what to do about it because we all probably have someone in our mind as you're listening to this right now You know, there's that one person you need to have that one hard conversation with And you're not doing it today. We're going to talk about kind of the why and the how of how to do that Um, it's funny
00:01:08
Speaker
even as Ridley preached, I actually went up to him, I went up to you afterwards and I was like, there's this one book called Crucial Conversations, it's so awesome. But the one thing they said in that book that has always stuck with me is around the fact that life, like your life is made usually by just a few, like, I'm gonna butcher it now. Like your life pivots.
00:01:31
Speaker
on the crucial conversations you do or don't have.
Challenges and Improvements in Meaningful Conversations
00:01:35
Speaker
Like major life choices around the scary conversations that you know you need to have. Whether you're going for that promotion and having that hard conversation with your boss or confronting that person that's always coming after you at work or in this social setting or that one conversation you just can't seem to really have it out with your spouse. Or maybe you're having it out and you're not doing it well and it keeps resurfacing over and over again and then it
00:01:58
Speaker
Content like just corrupts the marriage and then you end up in like bad situations because you're just not having the crucial conversation Well, so learning how to have hard conversations is a critical skill in order to just do life. Well, yeah So I feel like there's a couple of areas where we've we run into problems with these conversations Number one is when we refuse to have them
00:02:20
Speaker
Uh, number two is when we have them, but we have them poorly, like you're talking about here. And I think all of us could use some, some helpful suggestions, some instruction on how to deal with these crucial conversations. And I think thirdly is the timing of the conversation.
Biblical Guidance on Conflict Resolution
00:02:33
Speaker
You may have a good conversation, but you may be late in delivering what you needed to. Uh, so sometimes delaying those conversations can create as much problems as the content of the conversation.
00:02:45
Speaker
Now I'm trying to remember, I think it's in, is it Matthew 18 where like we're giving a grievance procedure from the Bible, often quoted probably worth reminding here though of like, what are the major steps the Bible gives us as far as.
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. And so Jesus, Jesus is teaching us in Matthew. He says, look, if you've got a problem with your brother, go sit down with him and try to fix that problem. Uh, and that's always the best solution. If a brother and a sister, brother and a brother, whoever it may be can sit down face to face and talk out issues. It's amazing to me. And I don't know if anybody's ever actually done some kind of study to break down the numbers, but it's amazing to me in the course of my life, how many times I have seen two people be at odds with each other. And because they refuse to talk.
00:03:29
Speaker
They allowed a problem to continue to fester, but when they finally did come and sit down, realized it really was never a bigger deal than, than what they made it. It was usually some simple solution or a misunderstanding or just a lack of communication. And if they had just jumped into it right off the bat, they had to save themselves months of heartache and anxiety, things of that nature. So.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then of course the Bible says, okay, you have that initial conversation. If you can't get things corrected, then maybe go grab a brother or two, come back and have an additional conversation. So there's somebody objective who sits in.
00:04:03
Speaker
almost like taking your grievances to a court of law and having somebody who sits in and has
Church Discipline and Reconciliation
00:04:08
Speaker
that. And then, of course, the final step, the one that everybody always lives in fear of is that you have to bring it publicly to the church to let the church adjudicate the problem. And that situation, that's always the very, very last straw.
00:04:24
Speaker
But what we forget, and I think this too can lend itself to being a problem in our communication, we forget that the reason for these conversations from the very beginning all the way to the very end is always about trying to restore and reconcile. It's not about getting even. It's not about vengeance. It's not about punishment. It's always about trying to get our brother or sister back on the right path and right relationship with the ones they have offended.
00:04:50
Speaker
So we have like a one to one, a one to few, or usually at least two, maybe three people coming to that person. And then it's not like just announcing it at church. Usually it's coming to church leadership about the issue after you had tried with the few and it didn't go well or amends where it made, things didn't go well. Then you're bringing it to church leadership in order to navigate the next steps, would you say?
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah. And let's keep in mind that when Matthew gave these instructions, there was no church yet. I mean, there was the, the religion of the Jews, the Jewish traditions and stuff, but he was speaking to people who were his followers. So this was something new and there really wasn't a organized system in place yet that would be considered
Accountability in the Church
00:05:33
Speaker
the church. And even though he knew it was coming, he was kind of setting a tone for what would follow later. Paul would come on and admonish people. Okay. At some point you may have to get your church involved.
00:05:43
Speaker
Even to the point where Paul said, you know what, if you're trying to correct somebody, a brother that's living in sin and he refuses, then you cast him out and treat him like Satan because that's the only way you can get his attention. And man, we don't like those kinds of terms. That kind of stuff scares us to death because we brought up in a world that teaches tolerance of everything.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, I hardly ever see churches do that. And it's a scary thing, but I almost wonder if we probably don't do that enough. Yes. Because I'm trying to think of it single time in any of the churches I've been to ever do that. I've heard of it happening in other churches, and I mean in healthy ways.
00:06:19
Speaker
where someone refuses to do something, so the elders literally sent a letter in the mail to uninvite them to church. Like, hey, until you get these things right, where you were no longer a member of this church, we're ready to talk whenever you're ready. We've had a couple of instances, I've never seen it in any other church, but we've had a couple of instances since this church started where we had to go that far with our conversations.
00:06:40
Speaker
that it never really came publicly to the church but it did make it as far as the elders and the elders had to say to the person you're refusing to listen to the wisdom of elders who are trying to hold you accountable and until you do we're going to have to take your name from our membership.
00:06:55
Speaker
And in both of those cases, if I remember correctly, the elder said, you know, we'd love for you to stay. We'd love for you to continue to take the instruction that's given from our church. But in both of those cases, they removed themselves from membership, not from membership, but from even fellowshipping with us because they were either embarrassed or mad. So yeah. Yeah.
00:07:13
Speaker
It's usually how it goes and a lot of people would say like that's a very unloving thing to do Didn't Jesus accept everybody and you're like, no, no, no, this is the most loving thing we could do the most unloving thing we could do is just to let really bad behavior go on Unmentioned or unrecognized right kind of like your children You don't let your children just like eat candy and candy and candy Like eventually you have to stop them and it's hard because they'd like to keep eating it But you know, it's not good for them
00:07:38
Speaker
Yes. Mark Beaver and his classic book on the nine characteristics of a healthy church, I think is what it's called. It's a great book, has an entire chapter on this. And he talks to this specifically saying almost in the words you did. And he says, you know what? This is an area where churches have lost their
00:07:59
Speaker
their side of their mission and because we refuse to dress church discipline and accountability in our churches, we have weakened the message of the gospel and we have weakened our churches because we're allowing people to stay and exist in our congregations who for lack of a better term are a poison to the congregation.
00:08:17
Speaker
Um, and that sounds kind of harsh and severe, but it's just like anything else. You lower the bar. People will meet that low bar. Um, so, uh, as churches, I feel like it's something we kind of need to bring back again. I want to emphasize this over and over again, because people do say it's unloving. It's not about not loving it. It's about loving them so much. We want to see them restored.
Navigating Difficult One-to-One Conversations
00:08:39
Speaker
So coming back to the model of one-to-one, what if you want to church or I'd say probably bringing it to the elders.
00:08:46
Speaker
likely, um, going back to this one to one, it's probably where we spend most of the time because this is where most people, they don't even start here. If I, if anything, they go one to few and just start gossiping. Right. Exactly. So it's like, no, no, no, let's get it back to one to one. This is where if we could get it right here, the other steps actually become pretty straightforward. If you have the courage to go one to one first, the other ones are probably much easier. Right. Um,
00:09:12
Speaker
It's hard to go one to one. And I imagine like even thinking about Matthew 18, when Jesus is addressing it, he's, he's talking about grievances or things that you're upset about that somebody else did, and maybe they did it, maybe wronged you in some way. Would you say like another way this fits in is if you recognize sin in your brother or sister? Yes, absolutely. This can kind of fall on that same thing, this one-to-one, one-to-few, one-to-many model.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah. And this is why I think the today in our culture, the healthiest churches are the ones who teach and preach a very strong system of accountability among its members. Um, that it's not, not only accepted, but it's expected that believers are going to hold each other accountable. And, and again, as a church, we've bought into the framework of thinking that the culture has pushed on us, that that somehow is unkind and it's unloving.
00:10:05
Speaker
And it is the way the culture does it because the culture does what you just talked about. They don't approach the person they have a problem with. They go on social media and throw it out there. They talk about the person, those kinds of things. But when it's done in the church and it's done according to the standards that Christ first brought forth and then Paul and Peter, of course, encouraged, when it's done that way, it really legitimately is about loving somebody so much that you don't want to see them continue down a path that's going to be destructive.
00:10:38
Speaker
So both those things fall into this category. It's confronting someone either on a grievance or confronting sin, which is the hard thing to do. What's your method of usually approaching someone when you know you need to confront them? They wronged you or they've wronged the Lord and now you want to bring it to them.
00:10:55
Speaker
Well, obviously the first thing you got to do is you got to couch this thing in prayer. Um, because first of all, I've got to check my motives. Am I really seeking to restore? Am I really seeking to reconcile? Am I really doing this out of love? Uh, there can't be an ounce of pride or arrogance or, or vengeance involved here. It's got to be for the right reasons. And then I would say, um,
00:11:18
Speaker
The first thing you've got to do is when you have that actual conversation and please don't do this kind of stuff on texts and email and those kinds of things. That's just not the way it should be. And it's always got to be face to face at the very least a phone conversation. But I prefer face to face because body language tells you a lot when you're, when you're talking. But the first thing you got to do is say, uh, kind of communicate the goal of why you're there.
00:11:44
Speaker
Let it be known this is what we're about. There's a specific area of your life where I've seen some concerns or maybe in the community I've heard people talk about some choices you've made that maybe didn't honor God well and because I love you I don't want that kind of stuff going around without us having a conversation about it.
00:12:04
Speaker
So kind of setting the groundwork that everything that we're about to talk about, whether this turns out to be a 30 minute conversation or four 30 minute sessions done over a couple of weeks, that every bit of this conversation is purely out of love for you and a desire to see our relationship maintained in a healthy way. So
Handling Resistance in Conversations
00:12:27
Speaker
how do you usually start those conversations? I do not.
00:12:33
Speaker
I do not enjoy conflict, but I am one of those who would much rather take it on head on. I go straight into it. So, again, not to sound like I'm trying to be overly spiritual. I think once you get into the room, the first thing you do is you pray together. Because praying with somebody and for somebody, it's real hard to be mad at that person while you pray for them.
00:12:56
Speaker
So again, it just kind of puts another check, another filter on the conversation. And then you start this conversation by saying, um, there have been some concerns that have been brought to my attention either because I've seen them myself or again, because somebody else has pointed them out to me. And because I love you, I wanted to come directly to you. Didn't want to talk about you. Didn't want to talk, uh, with others about the situation. I want to come directly to you and see if you and I couldn't find a workable solution about how to fix this and move forward.
00:13:26
Speaker
It's interesting. That's kind of a hard one. I'm like, because especially if they don't know it's coming, you're just coming out of nowhere. I'd be like, Hey, you know what? I want to say something to you, but can we pray first? Yeah.
00:13:39
Speaker
I'm like, I don't, does that just work for you because you're the pastor and people are just kind of like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I've never done it that way. Admittedly, people probably expect that more from a pastor than they would just their regular Joe friend or whatever. Um, and it probably, I would guess, unless you
00:13:58
Speaker
Maybe you're a part of a D group together or in a life group together or something like that. It may begin to set up their defenses immediately because they're going, wait, we've never done this before. So it kind of prepares you that something very serious is coming. Uh, but I do think it's probably a step that doesn't need to be avoided. Um, again, you got to set the expectations and the expectations is that God's going to guide that conversation if it's going to be healthy. Hmm.
00:14:27
Speaker
usually the first thing I do is ask for permission in a way that's like, I got this from a management book called like, uh, the effective manager. Yeah. Cause you know, you have to, if you have a direct report, you usually going to have to confront them on something like there's going to be a performance issue somewhere eventually. So it's like, this is a normal thing. Um, and in that book, and I actually took this, I even do this with like marriage with Amy because I found it so helpful. That's good. Like, Hey, can I give you some critical feedback?
00:14:57
Speaker
Hmm. That's good. Cause then they go on defense, but if they say yes, then it's almost like they're prepared for something. They can kind of like take a moment and be like, whoa. Okay. Write themselves. All right. Let's lean in. I don't know what it is. That's been the thing I've done. I have a friend that says that we'll do that too. And the church setting he's, he'll ask, he'll go maybe to like a husband who maybe is treating his wife harshly and be like, Hey man,
00:15:23
Speaker
Can I give you some correction about how you treat your, about not, maybe not be confronted and give the confrontation there, but can I, can I give you some, can I give you a correction? Honestly, if they say no, then. Yeah. There are good times I've started the conversation by saying, you know, I love you to death and our friendship matters a lot to me, but my wife says that comes across as passive aggressive. You're saying you love them and then you're coming after them. I'm like, I get it. I understand that. It can be difficult, but.
00:15:53
Speaker
It's kind of like the sandwich, right? Yeah. I've done that many times, but sometimes I'm like, it feels funny to sandwich the hard thing in between two nice things. Right. Two things. I don't know if they cancel out or if they're just the two nice things are ignored to make it smoother. I don't know. But that is, I mean, it's like, well, Jesus does it, the book of Revelation.
00:16:22
Speaker
I think a word of caution here too is that while there are some incredibly helpful tips that hopefully you can gather from me or you or even books, the danger might be in making it too formulaic. We try to say there's a three step process because some of it's gonna depend on how much the Holy Spirit's already been working on the other person's heart. Maybe they have already been aware of it and they actually are wanting somebody to step in and help them.
00:16:50
Speaker
Uh, sometimes it depends on how that person's personality is. If they're very, uh, self, uh, maybe low self-esteem, maybe they immediately get defensive just because you've even talked to them. Um, so you, you can't just bullet down to steps one, two, three. It's probably more like a tree where you take the first step and you go, okay, if he says yes here, then go this direction. If he says no here, go that direction. That's right.
Maintaining Safety in Crucial Conversations
00:17:14
Speaker
So again, that's probably an area where you kind of have to trust that that little nudge inside your heart is going to guide you in the right direction when the time comes in the conversation. So what do you do when the person is resistant?
00:17:26
Speaker
I really try to back off because you can chase a rabbit down a hole, you know, and then you won't ever see it again. I think maybe there comes a point, a critical point in the conversation where you have to kind of go, okay, this is not being productive. The person is getting a little more defensive than I hope they would. So let's back off and then maybe schedule another conversation this time with a couple of other people.
00:17:52
Speaker
If they were defensive with you, there's a good chance they're going to be even more defensive if there's three or four other people involved. But I think that what Jesus intended was that the voices of three or four other people make it less about me versus you rather than us blessing you by having a conversation that's hard with you.
00:18:13
Speaker
So if they get defensive, that's always a good sign that you're getting off the path, right? Right. People get, I don't know, when you get confronted, you go into fight or flight mode. And like we were talking about just before we started recording, if they're in fight or flight mode, as in they're shutting down and not talking anymore or walking away or avoiding the conversation, or if they're now getting defensive and starting to argue with you.
00:18:38
Speaker
There is no chance you're going to accomplish your mission. They're really not hearing anything you say at that point. In fact, as you start most of your sentences, they're probably figuring out what's the rebuttal that I can come back to.
00:18:51
Speaker
So at that point, this is where I love the book, Crucial Conversations, your goal becomes getting it back to a safe place. And that's where probably saying some nice things or trying to see their viewpoint and trying to get them back done. It's really trying to not come against them because I think a lot of people will confront someone because they're angry, but you got to not be angry.
00:19:13
Speaker
Help your your brother your sister a need to try to understand like hey, I'm here to help you I just want you to know I'm on your team I'm on that's something I say with Amy all the time right even with the marital problems, but okay. I just want you to know I'm on I'm on team marriage. I'm on I'm on Amy's team. I'm on your side Yes at the same time. I can't let this thing go. It's bothering me
00:19:33
Speaker
But I know the only way for it to work itself out is for us to have a good conversation about it. And so trying to always bring them back to safety. I'm on your team. I want to help you. I'm not against you. Yeah. And I like that you take the time to say that another tip, if you're trying to diffuse the situation and remind them this is meant to be a positive conversation, is to ask questions.
00:19:57
Speaker
Why is it you feel like you need to act this way? How do you feel when this is going on or whatever? Because it's less about you accusing and more about you trying to understand. Yes.
00:20:10
Speaker
It reminds me of like how to win friends and influence people, right? Like always assume the best. I think that's like chapter one or maybe chapter two of the book or something. It's like right in the beginning, like assume the best because nobody does wrong thinking they're doing wrong. And if they do, then they have some really good justification. Like even that book talks about like, hey, like the book was written a long time ago. So like the mass murderer of the day, like the real bad guy that everybody had seen on the newspapers. He's like, yeah, that guy.
00:20:40
Speaker
He thought he was in the right. So I'm like, if he thinks he's in the right, chances are Joe Schmo, who you're confronting, is probably going to think he's in the right and has reasons for why he did the wrong thing. So you have to go in with that in mind. Think about people who fall into the grips of a cult.
00:20:57
Speaker
They don't ever go into a cult going, hey, let me go find the wackiest group of people who have a false religion and see how entangled I can get into their organization. Typically, it's because they start out in a search, and that search is a legitimate search for meaning or purpose or whatever. And whatever circumstances, they come across the wrong answers rather than the right ones.
00:21:18
Speaker
Um, so as you go to that brother or sister or cousin or whoever it may be a neighbor and begin to ask questions, it helps to pull back some of the layers of their journey to go. Okay. Maybe, maybe it really isn't them intentionally trying to do anything stupid. It really is them legitimately looking for something and just not finding the right answer fast enough. Yeah.
00:21:42
Speaker
One thing that I've noticed is if I'm going to confront someone, I'm gonna confront the behavior more than the thing they've already done in the past, because there's nothing they can do about the past. Right. And this is a helpful phrase, again, from that management book, is like, when you do X, Y happens. Mm-hmm.
00:21:59
Speaker
It affects people or me or whatever this way, rather than just attacking them like, why did you do that? Why did you do that thing? We don't need to go back. Let's just address it from keeping it from happening again is a helpful thing that I've done that I have gotten better results on. Again, this is a touchy thing and people can get defensive.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah and you know you talk about before come online it's amazing if we had the ability to look at a map of our lives how the.
00:22:33
Speaker
inability to have a crucial conversation or the inability to have a crucial conversation in a positive way can redirect the path of our lives. So I think this is an area where Jesus didn't say in Matthew 18, hey, if it ever comes up that you need to do this, I think he was saying you need to be intentional about having these really awkward conversations because they're healthy for you and they're healthy for the people you love.
00:22:58
Speaker
So if you're listening to this and you know who those people are, chances are this might be the week.
Self-Examination and Intentions in Hurtful Situations
00:23:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
It's probably not good to put it off anymore and probably time to have it. You could even blame it on this podcast. That's right. Say, well, I was listening to a podcast and I really recommended this, so I felt like it was time to talk about this. Well, I mean, let's put it in really practical terms that are current for us. Think about how your Christmas celebration with your family might change if you were to go ahead and have a conversation now instead of waiting till the week of Christmas and sitting in a room together awkwardly and not knowing how to proceed.
00:23:34
Speaker
Just to go ahead and have that conversation and say, hey, I know you've been struggling in this area and because I love you, I want to be a part of helping you figure out how to get out of this or to move beyond this or to face it or whatever. Those are, again, always hard conversations. Satan's always going to convince you to keep your mouth shut and stay out of people's business. But the one thing I don't read in any of the New Testament is that any of those guys, including Jesus, ever gave us permission to ignore these hard conversations.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yep. There's one, one last thing I'd like to come up with is oftentimes we're dealing with hurts. You've been hurt or you've hurt somebody. What do we do when we're like, essentially it's not, it's something happened and it caused a major offense, but it's not necessarily something habitual.
00:24:28
Speaker
What's the best way to go about it? Like if you're confronting someone because you hurt me is the right way to be like, hey, you hurt me. Yeah. I feel like what do you say to that? I think you have to start with a lot of self-examination in that regard to ask yourself the question, was it really Dan's actions that hurt me or was I already
00:24:53
Speaker
teetering towards hurt because of something else going on in my life, maybe too much stress, maybe other broken relationships, and this was just one more straw that was added to the camel's back or whatever. So I think you have to examine yourself and say, okay, what is it that really is the source of this? If you come back to the idea that, yeah, it's somebody's actions that have caused me hurt, I think, once again, immediately go to that person and assume the best
00:25:19
Speaker
Assume that they didn't intend to hurt you, assume that there wasn't their goal to break the relationship. Maybe they were just having a bad day. Maybe they just were being a little bit thoughtless in a careless moment and saying things that they shouldn't have. And just say, hey, again, the goal of this conversation is that you and I would continue our friendship, that we would continue our relationship.
00:25:41
Speaker
And because I care so much about you, I didn't want to just leave this lying out there between us. And I would love to talk to you about what it was you said or what it was you did so that we can heal this and move on. And as part of that, I think you immediately have to say, and I want to take responsibility for my actions in this.
00:26:01
Speaker
I remember a conversation years ago and I don't remember all the details behind it but it was with somebody who actually had very much wronged me and I was so fired up about it I was ready to pick up the phone and call and just kind of let them have it and I mean in a fairly nice way but still let them have it and I actually ran into him in person before I had the chance to pick up the phone and when I went to them I have to credit the Holy Spirit with every bit of this because I went up to him I said hey you know what
00:26:32
Speaker
I was kind of hurt by what you did the other day. So I want to apologize to you that if I did anything that made you feel like that that was the only course of action you could take. I took ownership of what I might have done.
00:26:48
Speaker
and it changed the whole tone of the conversation. And I would say, again, only the Spirit of God, because selfishly, I just wanted to just let him have it. But because I started the conversation that way, he immediately looked at me and said, you know what? I have been plagued by this since I said it the other day. I knew it was the wrong thing to say. I just didn't know how to come back to you because I was embarrassed. And the fact that you've approached me in this way makes it a whole lot easier for me to say, I should have never said what I said to you.
00:27:17
Speaker
There you go i mean i'm coming back to just assuming assuming the best of knowing they probably didn't want to do that or their intention wasn't to hurt you their intention wasn't to cause you that problem. And i wish i could say i had a million conversations ago halfway i don't remember very many that have ever gone that way so maybe i'm growing up a little bit fifty six years old.
Setting Objectives for Conversations
00:27:40
Speaker
So the good thing is, and then one another against another one tip from Crucial Conversations that I'm like, if I can leave one thing with this podcast is before you go into a Crucial Conversation, think about what you want to have happen as a result of this conversation, because it will probably steer you differently. Most people go into Crucial Conversations thinking they just want to get it off their chest.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah. And that is not going to drive the result that you probably want. You probably want that person, you want resolution is what you want. And you want maybe a behavior to change, whether for themselves or for your relationship, which means you need to come up with an idea of like, how can I get what I want here? Instead of just blowing off steam. There's that old expression in leadership. If you aim at nothing, you'll hit it every time.
00:28:27
Speaker
Same thing's true with your conversations. If you don't have a point for where you're going with this conversation, this crucial conversation, you're guaranteed that you're going to come out of it. You're not going to hit any of your targets and you're probably going to wind up with a bigger mess than when you went in.
00:28:42
Speaker
So that's a good way to wrap this up. Again, I think we mentioned three different books. I mentioned Nine Characteristics of a Healthy Church, Crucial Conversations, and I think how to one friends and influence people. I'll be dropping links to all those in the show notes, all good books. Yes. Hopefully this has got you thinking, probably made you uncomfortable as you probably know which conversations you need to have now. Absolutely. You're uncomfortable. Probably this is a successful episode.
00:29:04
Speaker
So thanks for listening to the Grove Hill podcast where we're trying to impact the life of every person with the whole gospel by any means possible, including this podcast.