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Episode 11: Unlimited Power!!!
98 Plays1 year ago
A long time ago… in a windy city, far, far away… Your hosts Nick, Andrew, and Manny, continue the conversation about power creep. How do we define power creep? When is something so impactful it’s time to walk away? The crew discusses this concept and the current design space of X-Wing!
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Transcript
Introduction to Game Balance and Design Spaces
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to the 312 Squadron podcast. My name is Andrew. My name is Nick. My name is Emmanuel. And in this episode, we are going to do a dive into game balance, power creep, and the design spaces of X-Wing and more.
Weekend Anecdotes and Personal Updates
00:00:16
Speaker
But just to kick it off, how is everybody's weekends? Anybody, anything crazy happen?
00:00:21
Speaker
You may dispense with the pleasantries, Andrew. I just wanted an opportunity to say that. I'll actually answer the question. I never get to quote Vader saying that. It's great. There you go. So my weekend, I was trying to think about it. I had a pretty busy week. It's one of those things where you have a busy weekend and then you forget about everything that you did. Yeah. Well, Friday night, we streamed in person. Manny was over. Frankie, Matt, we did three games of in-person X-wing at my place.
00:00:49
Speaker
And then we went out and forgot about that. Yeah, right. Well, yeah, how could I? How could we? But we did. And that was a lot of fun. My imperial list is still super broken sometimes, apparently. And especially when you know how to fly it.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. It helps for sure. We went out for some celebratory drinks after and then Saturday laid low, got some takeout at my favorite Italian place by my parents place, crashed there for the night and then Sunday just kind of cleaning up all of the equipment from Friday. That was my weekend. I remembered everything. Sounds good. Nice. Oh, he's successful. Yeah. How about Manny?
00:01:31
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I mean, Friday is, as I already explained, uh, Saturday just went climbing Sunday. Uh, I swam and had lunch with a couple of friends, basically at chill weekend. No complaints. No, it sounds great. It's also heavy. You're able to get out and do the, uh, the climbing and swimming. Yeah. Yeah. Nice.
00:01:53
Speaker
I can't remember if if I mentioned this last week, but I'm an uncle now. And you did. Yes. How's that? Any any uncle wisdom you'd like to share with all of us? Take them also and uncle. So well, I mean, you're the creepy uncle. No doubt. No, I forgot that I'm totally an uncle years ago. The fun uncle. I was going to say you have more more uncle wisdom than I do.
00:02:22
Speaker
No, I it's it's they have a boy and He's super cute and my plan is just to spoil him and be as fun as possible You got to be the fun uncle for sure. It's a good dynamic Andrews the fun uncle man. He's the creepy uncle you get both You need one of each you want to be true family. Oh, yeah always to there are no more no less Yoda come on. He's obviously referring to uncles
00:02:52
Speaker
But that's awesome, man. Congrats. That was a very adorable photo that you shared with our group.
Weather and Upcoming Events
00:02:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that was that. That's been a lot of fun. And then the second is I went to a record release. One of my friends from college is in a hardcore band called Snuffed, which if you're into like hardcore and metal, they've been taking off pretty, pretty big in like Chicago land area. So that was a an absolute blast.
00:03:19
Speaker
find their new album on Bandcamp.
00:03:23
Speaker
just to do a little plug from our friends there. Yeah, absolutely. You got to plug your friends for sure. But it was a great show. That is awesome. I hope everybody watching live here because we have our subscriber only Twitch stream going right now. And those who listen to this when it comes out. I hope you all have had a good February. It's winding down. This is the shortest month that does sometimes feel like the longest. But honestly, guys, I don't know about you. This month has been going by fast and I think it's because of the weather.
00:03:51
Speaker
being actually genuinely great here in Chicago. Today, it was in the 50s again. Yeah, climate change is real. It's real. Wild. Real. But does it mean you can't enjoy the the after effects of it? Yeah, we get to in Chicago because it's. Yeah. Chicago is just going to be. You're screwed. But like you're in the Midwest. We don't have tornadoes. And even then, they're not that bad. At one point, it was warmer here than it was in Los Angeles.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yes. And in Florida, too. That's that's almost like I can't believe you. There's like, you know, like how is that possible? Yeah. But yeah, I hope you all have been having a good February and have had a good weekend as you listen to this because this will come out on Monday.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's good to hear. We're all doing fairly well. We're looking ahead to March in the spring and obviously worlds at Adepticon and our backyard. And it's coming up. It's so excited to see all of the people that all the friends that I've made through, you know, Twitch playing the game at events, online, everything. The podcast. It's just all super excited to have. That's right. Yeah. Please come say hi. We'd love to talk to you.
00:05:00
Speaker
Come say hi. We'll have our world shirts on, too. Yeah. We'll have our Chicago World's 2024 shirts on. So won't be won't be hard to miss us or will be hard to miss us rather. Well,
Battle of Endor Scenario Analysis
00:05:12
Speaker
speaking of all of the exciting things like what we're looking forward to in world, something that we've been looking forward to since last world was the Battle of Endor.
00:05:21
Speaker
Scenario coming out. So that's some of the big news that we have is now all of the pilots information is out there It's up on the builders so you can start theory crafting lists with them right now
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. And as someone who's streaming streaming, you know, games on our channel and also a part of the draft league, people are playing battle over end or have gotten a chance to see, you know, little glimpses at certain pilots. There's a lot of interesting design spaces being explored and ideas. Some some are very good. Some are balanced. Some are not so balanced. And, you know, I'm excited to talk about our impressions of what we're seeing so far.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say this is this is where we really want to want to dive into it. So I was wondering, Nick, if we wanted to start with you, what your impressions of the battle over Endor is currently. Yeah. So I have a small sample size of, you know, data and games that I've watched and streamed. And I have to say that there are they genuinely seem like a lot of fun. I would say that's one thing as somebody, the person playing the components
00:06:30
Speaker
The player themselves themselves will have a lot of fun with almost all of these pilots. There is a lot of abilities and a lot of triggers and a lot to keep track of. And if you take two, three or four of those or more in a five ship list, for example, it might.
00:06:48
Speaker
It might be overwhelming at first. I think that's might be a learning curve that everyone's going to go through. Just when you put all these new pilots down, getting used to what you're trying to look out for and try with triggers, you're trying to catch and and make work. But overall, fun, pretty good. I don't know how meta warping it is. You have TIE fighters, you have some interceptors, you have a new you have the Falcon.
00:07:13
Speaker
In Lando, we have this new Soontier in the Interceptor, like I said. And the B-Wings, which I think is the most underrated and exciting aspect of this, is because B-Wings have not been shadowbanned, but kind of just not really getting played. And I would love to see more of that. I think that's great for the game. So stuff like that, I'm on board with. So that's my TLDR. Fun, interesting, some too good, some that balanced pretty well, I think.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, Manny, how about you? I haven't really taken a good look into any of these cards, so... Manny, Manny prepared. Yeah, yeah, straight up. So I'm gonna learn about these cards as we go through it. This is why. This is exactly why. He's in the doghouse every other recording session. I'm quickly going through the cards right now. And boy, do they have a lot of effects.
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of triggers, a lot of upgrades compared to the Battle of Yavin and it's a separate league. Yeah. There's a lot of really cool design decisions that they've made that the pilots look genuinely fun and a couple of them look very pushed and basically be the best in their faction, possibly just right out of the gate.
00:08:24
Speaker
And it's going to be interesting to see how the addition of these ships is going to shake up the meta. So I think it's great that you've already seen some play testing with it already. And that's kind of nice to have that data before it officially releases. Everybody at home, too. I mean, it's going to be out by the time that you listen to this episode. So it's going to even be interesting to see what. Hopefully, yeah. I'm not sure what the delays are.
00:08:49
Speaker
Oh, that's true. Yeah. So hopefully you'll be able to get at least on tabletop and people are playing it on streams all the time right now. So we do have that. And shout out to our last episode. You know, we talked about online X-wing at Greg Cash from Nickel City X-wing on and we were talking about TTS and Vasil and everything. And I mean, it's a great tie in to how helpful that stuff is when you can have access to this content early before you physically get it and can try it out.
00:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, Nick, I know there was a couple of pilots that you really wanted to highlight. Do you want to start with the rebel faction and dive into that? Sure. Yeah, I'll do. I talked about, you know, my love for B wings and trying to get them a little bit more relevant.
00:09:29
Speaker
I'll do Gina Moonsong, who's a battle over Endor, a five-point B-wing with an extra shield. So it has five shields and four hull. Same stat line, though. Three attack and one agility, four hull, five shields, and two recurring charges with these actions focused to red barrel roll, target lock, and then also a barrel roll to red target lock and a red reload. Her ability
00:09:58
Speaker
as an I five viewing is at the start of the engagement phase of a friendly Braille and Strom ship at range zero to two is stressed. You may acquire a lock. Now Braille in is the other half of the battle over and or viewing release. You can talk about him in a moment, but it's similar to.
00:10:15
Speaker
The kind of what you need for the boys, the backstabber and mauler, you know, needing a specific pilot nearby or in their case, in their side arc. So at range zero to two, if that ship, if Braylon is stressed, you may acquire a lock. So this is an at the start of the engagement phase trigger. I was going to say, this reminds me a lot of just the Anakin Obi-Wan. That too, yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker
Well, yeah, yeah. Also has a secondary. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, I know. I was going to say that it does seem like a lot of these new sets have this like paired pilot ability thing going on. Yeah. And and secondary and in a primary and secondary pilot ability, which I think in some cases is a little overwhelming. But we get one with with Gina with called gyro cockpit. After you gain a stress token, you may spend two of her recurring charges or two recurring charges to gain an evade token.
00:11:07
Speaker
When you drop a device, you may spend one charge to set the template with its middle line aligned with the hash mark of the base in your side arc. So essentially, what does that mean? That means you can drop a bomb out the side of your your ship. That that's the ability. That's three abilities for Gina that they put gyro cockpit together with with the they took inside in the bomb side is one, but it is technically three.
00:11:32
Speaker
abilities for Gina, which that's wild. Has a few upgrades. It's a trap is a talent specific to battle over Endor while defending. If there are more other friendly ships than enemy ships at range zero to one, you may reroll one of your blank results. So if there are more other friendly ships than enemy ships at range zero to one,
00:11:55
Speaker
You so basically being yeah friendlies nearby you get to reroll a blank result Which be wings that can be actually kind of helpful just being one agility get a free elusive. Yeah, why not? Yeah Has juke we know what juke does while you while you perform an attack if you're evading you change one of the defenders evades to an eyeball result
00:12:13
Speaker
has proton torpedoes for to hit hard with that. With her ability, you can actually rather with the primary ability with Braylon getting that lock, you can set up double modded proton torpedoes. Yeah, pretty easily.
00:12:27
Speaker
That's that's what really, you know, struck out to me. Yeah. And ion bombs is less so you can drop ion bombs out the side or drop it behind like usual. So that's Gina. Andrew,
Power Creep and Game Balance Discussion
00:12:40
Speaker
do you want to do? We didn't. I didn't mention it, but can you do Braylon's just? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can. I can go over Braylon, too. So Braylon is an eye for sort of eye five and is four points. Gina's five. So the combo together is nine points.
00:12:55
Speaker
And Braylen's ability is at the start of an engagement phase, a friendly Gina moonsong is at range 0-2 is stressed. You gain a focus token. And then after you gain a stress token, you can spend 2 charges to gain an evade token.
00:13:10
Speaker
It's the gyrocockpit, the same as Gina's. While you drop a device, you can spend one to do it out the side, the middle line. Same gyrocockpit ability, but it's the other half of that stress equation. A little easier to get that focus token because you can do a barrel roll into a red lock or you can
00:13:33
Speaker
even do a reload, but let's talk about what else is on. Also, like Gina has It's a Trap, which is the friendly ships are at range zero to one, reroll one of your blank results. Instead of the ion bombs, he has proton bombs, which is really good. And then also has homing missiles.
00:13:52
Speaker
And then also has delayed fuses. So if you drop or launch a bomb, you can place a fuse marker on it. So that might make dropping those proton bombs out the side a little more interesting. You have a better position to drop them in. Yeah.
00:14:08
Speaker
Besides, it's a trap. The everything else are upgrades we already know, and I've already existed, which is kind of heart like likens back to Battle of Battle of Yavin, where we didn't really do too much in terms of new upgrades, at least with these two specifically. It's just it's a trap on here. Yeah, we'll get into when we talk about empire and stuff like later. A lot of the TIE fighters have the same thing going on. It's they're basically just like Battle of Yavin. They're.
00:14:36
Speaker
all old abilities, there's not really too many new things there. Yeah, it seems like the rebels benefit from more new stuff like Lando specifically. As soon to year also does have that stuff, too. But yeah, yeah, since you're in the last.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then it seems like a lot of the rebels have it's a trap. So this is kind of like the the siege over Coruscant wolf pack ability. It's I mean, much more widely. It's a it's a widespread. It's for every. It seems like every rebel pilot I think has it's a trap. Has it? Yeah.
Atomic Mass Games' Design Philosophy
00:15:10
Speaker
They all know. Yeah. That's.
00:15:11
Speaker
Manny, do you want to cover our A-Wing friend? His name is Gemmer or Gemmer. I don't know how people are going to pronounce this. I was going to say, yeah, before we moved on, did we want to talk about like the Gina Mood song Braylon combo? As do we think that like
00:15:31
Speaker
This oh, just sorry. Yeah. And just in terms of that's nice. You said nine. Like you said, nine points. That's just like the same issue with B wings now beside, you know, outside of these two years, you're investing a serious amount of points into this is that this is my plasma torpedoes and get halved immediately. And yeah, that's that is half your list. As you said, this this to me feels like a combo that was really made for the battle over end or scenario.
00:15:59
Speaker
where is really powerful, but this is what you want to put in a list that you have 35 build points with. And, uh, however, I think that even without that, that first ability, uh, Gina moonsong is just good on her own.
00:16:13
Speaker
Uh-huh. Oh, I also I did forget to mention Braylon also has the shield upgrade as well. Oh, they both. So at four points, you know, Braylon also might be pretty. Yeah, I would take. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty good. How does Berlin gone for?
00:16:31
Speaker
I have four points for an I-4. Yeah. OK. Proton points. The proton bombs are good. You know, three attack days out the front. I think, though, that the proton torpedoes and the higher initiative might. I mean, five is a lot of points and juke as well. Unfortunately, a homing
Debate on Standard Loadout Cards
00:16:50
Speaker
missiles are one of the worst missiles or just Russians in the game still.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, that just is. Yeah, no, they are. I. Gina, Gina has the ability to have a a focus evade or a target lock evade with a potential reroll.
00:17:12
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I think I think the survivability that even gives you is is good enough for you. But a pro-torp and juke combo is really punishing when you're shooting at something that took a scenario action. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
Try to play the objective? Well, you made a mistake. That's on you, buddy. Yeah. How dare you try to play the objective? Gina's going to get some people. Good call pointing that out. Addressing the
Future of X-Wing and Community Involvement
00:17:40
Speaker
viability of the two together is very questionable, but I would certainly either of them isolated on their own in a list.
00:17:48
Speaker
is certainly I think we're trying for sure with the extra health. You know, there's a lot of efficiency built into them with being able to stay alive with the vades is nice because I walk and and I mean, just talking about an alpha strike like they have an ability if they if they are together, though, even at even even though it's pricey at nine points, you are looking at a focus lock. Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
alpha strike shot at least with seven die. Just with the what I've been playing recently, I just think about starter said Vader firing an ion missile at one of these things and just making them so sad immediately because they'll lose their locking and get ionized. You'd need that. Yeah, sure. But I mean, you can only shoot at one of them. So you ionize Gina, but, you know, you're still taking
00:18:35
Speaker
Focus like shot from from Braylon. Yeah. Yeah. Braylon being I for is a little bit more vulnerable in terms of absolute ion and plasma torpedo tech are very strong in the game right now. Jamming as well. Those are three things that B wings just can't really get away from because they're just not very they're they don't have the maneuverability in the high, high, high initiative to compensate for for that. So yeah, those are the the biggest things that would would obstruct their contributions to to to a list.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to bring that up before we move on to. Sure. Yeah. Mr. Sohan. Let's do it, Manny. Who is. Yeah. Gemmer. What initiative? All that good stuff. What does he got? Yeah. So he is an A-wing. He is initiative two. Typical stance of an of a A-wing. There is no extra.
00:19:26
Speaker
There's no extra shields, so two hold, two shields. Effect is, while defending, you may gain one strain token to change two of your blank results to AI result. Up to two. Yeah, up to two. The Jesse ability is just factored cannons. Essentially, you perform a red boost or rotate turret action.
00:19:54
Speaker
This is some phase and I should just go over the upgrades as well. It's a trap. Yeah. We know what it's a trap does, but chaff particles and his target assist algorithm are too interesting.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, precision tuned cannons. That's a new one, correct? That's a new type of cannon. Yes. And precision tuned cannon as well. Yeah, that's also new. Right. Uh, effects. If the deaf eye is your bullseye, add one Abura, Abura assault, a two attack, no, a, a, a two die attack, range two to three, chat particles. Well, defending, you may spend a one Abura assault at the end of an internalized assault step to remove one red or orange token.
00:20:35
Speaker
So imagine like flares for a jet, I guess, and target assistant algorithm, which before you engage, you may wait. Yeah, before you engage, if you have no green tokens and there are one or more enemy objects in your front arc, gain a calculate token. Nice.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Hard to kill is the kind of the bottom line. Maybe not doing a lot of damage, but a three point a wing that is going to be a lot harder to kill with an ability like that, being able to change your blank results to eyeball results. It's the one one reason why it was that is when they blank out. Yep. I mean, yeah. Guaranteeing yourself at least, you know, against one one of that.
00:21:21
Speaker
is really good. Yeah, it's it's one of those like there are a few pilots in battle over end or they have noticed that are like they're priced. Well, they're priced like fairly, but they don't have they they have more defensiveness to them. But in the way X-wing is now competitively with the damage race, you just don't see how you can make it work where they would be a part of your list and you can count on them to deal damage.
00:21:47
Speaker
It's just a, you know, I think so. Sohan is one of those that is maybe in a better objective player. That is exactly what I see Sohan doing. Absolutely. It's for objectives because also you have that ability where if you are off, you know, doing.
00:22:05
Speaker
objective things like you can, you know, do the the vector cannons or you can do the the boost. If nobody is like shooting at you, if you take like that stress action, then you can spend that focus token and, you know, go do something else again. Yeah, I do like the one thing I do like that gives it a little more punch, even if you spend your focus on defense, when when you go to engage, you at least get a calculate token back.
00:22:35
Speaker
So, you know, matter what, even even if you're using a defense, you're still able to utilize some mods on offense. Yeah, exactly. Just being at I2, he just has to wait a little while to get there. But again, I think he's going to be widely ignored when he unless you have no other choice who to shoot at. You know, he's just he's just like, unless I, oh, yeah, I'm just not even going to take a shot. It's not even worth it. Right. Yeah, initially. Yeah, exactly.
00:23:03
Speaker
We can. But overall, like we've already talked about, you know, Lando and some of the other rebel pieces, but I think this is a good flavor as to maybe the the the unsung maybe not heroes, but just like, yeah, let's call them heroes. The the underrated under discussed some of the pilots that we might see people tinker around with. I'm not sure how much.
00:23:27
Speaker
of Braylon and Jina together, we'd see maybe at Worlds, for example, but I think Gamer will find a place, you know, and maybe in place of a Kyo or a wedge in the A-Wing, we might see Gamer instead. I think he would be really solid, part of a Rebel list. And yeah, overall, I think the Rebels have scenarios. These seem to be built a lot more for the scenario. Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah, we'll talk about later in the episode where we think the design ideas are going. But just as a preview for that, I feel like the design looks like they want to make rebels the scenario of action. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
And on the other side of it, we have we have Empire, who I feel like is built with much more of a damage dealing mindset, which is is thematic because the Empire rules with an iron fist. You know, it's about intimidation and stuff. But in the game of X-wing is again, well, like Andrew said, we'll allude to more of this later in the episode. But how does that all come together as a cohesive balance?
00:24:33
Speaker
when you have these scenario packs. When one is more defensive and more objective based and for the scenario and the other one can more freely play successfully in a competitive environment. I think Empire comes out on top in that regard in terms of damage potential. We got two new defender pilots we'll talk about. We got Soon Tier we discussed in our last episode who is wild. I mean, what he can do is crazy.
00:24:59
Speaker
He can, you know, basically just kind of do whatever he wants. And I think something that everyone was talking about a lot is was Jenden and worth, I think, discussing again, a seven point defender, the Thai defenders, I think, always kind of been one of the most interesting and one of the coolest ships in Star Wars and an X-Wing. But power creep and balance is a fear that developers have with this ship in this game. Mm hmm.
00:25:29
Speaker
What were you going to say, Andrew? Oh, no, I was going to say, I've always loved the defender. That was one of the first ships that I've flown. Flew it my first tournament ever. And yeah, was it two point. Who was it that you were playing the I-5? What's his name? Rexler Braff? Yeah, I was doing Rexler Braff. Rexler, every breath you take.
00:25:50
Speaker
Mr. Rexler. Yeah, he's solid. But Jenden. So we have the only I six defender pilot right now before. I mean, before Battle of the Rendor is Vader and Vader is probably with that ability and that chassis is is is worth the nine points. He has to be priced that way because he's so good and hard to kill. Jenden is now the second I six defender, which is a little scary when you just dive into all of the things that he can do.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, he so he's seven points at I six. He has the same stat line three, three, three, four. So three attack, three agility, three hole and four shields. He has a couple of different actions than what we're used to seeing on a regular defender has a focus evade target lock and barrel roll boost. All white actions. Colonel Jenden has a focus evade link red barrel roll target lock and target lock barrel roll boost.
00:26:47
Speaker
So he has a link to action and they're a bade link, red barrel roll. His ability is while you defend, if you are not shielded, he may change one of your blank results to an eyeball result. So the more damage you deal to him, the more defensive he's going to start to get, which is very interesting for a defender. It's not really what you love to see on a die defender pilot at I6, but
00:27:11
Speaker
That's something that he can do. And then he has just engineering. So instead of full throttle, which is what makes them so tanky, full throttle was after you fully execute a speed three to five maneuver, you may perform an evade action just engineering. After you fully execute a speed three to five maneuver, you may perform a target lock action while attacking. If you are not stressed, you may spend one shield to apply the range one bonus. So you can blow a shield to trigger the first part of the ability.
00:27:41
Speaker
He can he can roll four attack dice at range two to three if he spends his shields, and he also can use it paired with his proton cannon to fire a five dice proton cannon.
00:27:53
Speaker
He has a talents called a no escape, which is new. Well, I perform a primary attack. If there are more friendly ships and other enemy ships at range zero to one of the defender, you may reroll one of your blank results. So swarm your opponent. Basically, that ship that you're shooting at and your ships. This is the the inverse of of that. It's a trap.
00:28:17
Speaker
Yeah, so literally thematic there. Yeah, exactly. You're also turning off their it's a trap ability for rebels. Yeah. Yeah. One good thing to note, though, it does say primary attack. So you don't you don't get that with the proton cannon. Yeah. Well, yeah, you will need to. You have a lock anyway.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I was going to say, so he has he has ways to do a three to five maneuver focused target lock. Yeah, it gets better because he has pushed the limit, which is a, you know, kind of likens back to one point oh upgrade. It's a talent after he fully execute a red maneuver or perform a red action. If you are not strained, you may gain one strain token to remove.
00:28:58
Speaker
one stress token. So because their dial has hard turns of the one and two variety that are red and also a 2K that's red, he can in a safe position to get rid of that stress and replace it with a strain. So he opens up his dial potentially. Yeah, and can still take actions.
00:29:18
Speaker
Yeah. And lastly, this is the one that I think makes it scary with the proton cannons and the ability is he has computer assisted handling. It's a one charge single use, so that's good at least. It's after you fully execute a maneuver, you may spend one charge reform a boost or barrel action. So you can target lock focus and then barrel or boost all at once.
00:29:43
Speaker
to line up the shot that you desire. Yeah. Wow. That's pretty gross. I mean, honestly, it takes away most of the downsides of a defender. Exactly. I mean, it feels like if you're in a bad spot, you have a way to always get out of it. You're I6, yeah. I mean. Yeah.
00:30:03
Speaker
It's scary. It is a lot. There's so much damage potential, but at the risk of him taking a lot of damage at the same time. So you really have you will have to lean on your data. Catch and score or Palpatine force to bail him out because he's going to he's how often is he going to actually want to spend his shields? If he's not taking shot at, it's worth it every time to at least spend one at least once in a game to do it. He's he's so maneuverable, though.
00:30:32
Speaker
like at I six, like he could it feels like he can get out of, you know, almost. Yeah, I will say I was building some lists with him and the good news with the game, the way the game is and scenarios. The good news is it's going to be hard to build a good five ship list with him. You really are stuck with four ship options and it's it's asking a lot out of. Yeah, because I feel like seven points.
00:30:58
Speaker
If you're taking agenda, you're probably not taking Vader like you're doing this instead of at Lee. I mean, you're not fully not taking the defender, Vader. I mean, you could argue. No, no, no, I meant later. Sure. But but now. But now, I mean, you're you're pretty points. That's 13 points. You're locking yourself into a into. I mean, it's going to be fun. It'll be a good list, but you're really like yourself in like a four list or maybe, you know, everybody else is going to be kind of mediocre.
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's so that's the good news because it's terrible for scenarios. If you you could bring like you could do gender and vizier with Palpatine, that's eleven points and then you could do soon tier. That's sixteen and then another four point. But again, it's just not that good. It's going to salvage. It's not going to be able to do salvage. It's not going to do well at assault. Scramble is a toss up. Mm hmm. So.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the old. The good news is that it defenders are already kind of hard to play with right now, and he slots in at that seven points that you people probably just don't prefer to take rear admiral cheer new instead. Yeah. And, you know, or just are more in a key. This is where I'm thinking that we honestly, even though Jenden is really good, we might be seeing more captain your on tables.
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great segue. So should we throw that over to you, Andrew, if you want to talk about the other defender pilot, Captain Yor. Sure, I would. I would love to. So Captain Yor, this was the first one that piqued my interest because seeing a six-point defender, this is the cheapest defender right now in the game.
00:32:30
Speaker
So Yor is an i4 only, but has this regular stat line, the three hull, four shield, three defense, three attack die, and has the pilot ability. After you perform a primary attack that hits, you can spend one charge. He has two non-reoccurring charges to perform a bonus cannon attack.
00:32:53
Speaker
And then, like Jenden also has the Chiss Engineering, after you fully execute speed 3-5 maneuver, you can perform a target lock action, and while attacking, if you're not stressed, you can spend a shield to apply the bonus. The range one bonus, yeah. The range one bonus.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah. Also has no escape, just like Gendin and like Soontier Fell in this set. Wipe from primary attack if there are more friendly ships than other enemy ships at range zero to one of the defender. You can reroll a blink result. He has an ion cannon. And so that's the bonus attack that you're going to be doing with him. And then he has Predator, so cares about that bullseye.
00:33:37
Speaker
to reroll that die and has computer assisted handling like Jenin as well. After you execute a maneuver, you can spend one to perform a boost or barrel roll action. The bonus ion cannon attack after it hits is so nasty. It's really nasty.
00:33:53
Speaker
I mean, the good news is at I4, yours probably not going to be jamming off like target locks or doing anything better, but basically guaranteeing where the ship that you just shot at is going to be next turn is going to be huge for you lining up that, you know, Predator bullseye shot. Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
And I will say, though, Andrew can be good. I for means that you're way more likely. People are going to have to make a very tough decision about spending their tokens when he can take shots at you because you spend your tokens like great. I'm going to shoot you first. It hits great. And then I'm going to ionize you as well. The spike damage potential is wild.
00:34:34
Speaker
Yeah, that I mean, that's for sure, too. He has the ability to spend his shields, probably not going to be doing it as much as Jenden, just because that I for it's going to be a lot easier to catch your and in your doesn't have the, you know, the defensive power of of the like evade token that that the defenders usually get.
00:34:59
Speaker
Um, but free target lock is still pretty good. Uh, he also forgot to mention like, uh, Colonel agenda and also has the same, um, evade into a red barrel roll link to action as well. Yeah. Captain yours six points, same prices as Vader. Um, you could pair him and Vader together. That's 12 points and you have eight points still to play. Yeah. And this is where like, I think 12 versus 13 points is a huge difference in empire on what you can take with you.
00:35:28
Speaker
Um, because with, with 12 points, you can basically take two more, um, three point ships, right? Cause that, uh, 12. Yeah. 18. And then you can take a tie fighter. Yeah. Um, and that, and then that's a pretty decent, you know, five point list. You can still take the, the, the other I fives, or you could do, uh, a really beefy four point list. Yeah. Four ship if you really wanted, but, or four ship list. Yeah. But I, I think that.
00:35:56
Speaker
You know, you can, or you can even do your like, you know, soon tier, the boys.
00:36:03
Speaker
and then I was and then a TIE fighter. So there's I think I think that being one point less gives a lot more build ability and potential, even though your is is going to be an eye for and I five is really the the signpost initiative right now. But defenders are just really good. Yeah, I'll always have been just just, you know, you can't price them too cheap because they break the game and they they've always been. I mean, that's honestly what it is. Yeah.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, which is is good. I don't think I want to see everybody playing a tie defender all the time. You know, it's nice. I'd like to. Yeah, I'd like the option to put a tie defender in my list, though. Yeah, I could. Yeah, it is. I think I think that this is this is actually pretty fair at at six points and taking away that that free evade token is is pretty big.
00:36:55
Speaker
And I'm just doing a wellness check on our friend Manny, who is still alive. I'll just throw it over to you. What do you think of these two? Oh, obviously, the offenders. I mean, well, as a person who doesn't really fly Empire, I am curious to see how much of a splash they're going to do. There's someone who flies against a lot of Empire, though. Yeah, you sure do. That's true. What do you feel? How do you feel about sitting on the opposite side of the table? Gotcha.
00:37:24
Speaker
Carl Jenden, it'd be scary, but I mean, the large factor is, well, who are his friends next to him? If it's like a four year ship list with Carl Jenden, I'll feel like, I'll write about it. I'm pretty confident even. But keeping your in a five ship list, I can see him being a bit threatening. So learning how to defend against that is gonna be fun.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like Jenden is a ship that is going to have to earn its keep. Like if you're putting Jenden into your list, you really want him to basically be the same as two ships or at least be able to take out two ships to make his worth on this, like sit on the table. And everyone's going to go after him too.
00:38:12
Speaker
unless you have another beater like like if you have, you know, gender and soon tier, you got to you got to. Yeah, like I give a reason to split the the focus. Yeah, it's the only way I think you can get to take down is to go all in. But if you do burn them down, then your opponent's game is pretty much over already, right?
00:38:33
Speaker
It's that's the downside of flying a seven of seven point ship or higher. Yeah. When you lose it, it's almost always game over, almost always. And that's one of the reasons why we haven't like seen too many defenders.
00:38:47
Speaker
in the current meta. They're not. They're a little predictable with the three to five speed triggers, whether it be full throttle or just engineering. And when they're stressed, it's, you know, they're like, oh, well, you're going to go fast. You're going to go straight. You you almost always know when they're going to do a white four case. That's the other downside with defenders is I think in the right hand, someone can do very well with them, but they can be very predictable.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yes, this is why I'm actually though really happy to see that computer assisted handling And even push the limit on on Jenden is that really kind of takes away a level of predictability especially if you if you get like everybody's scrubbed up at the middle of the board, I think the ability for them to not pay the consequences from you that one or two hard is
00:39:37
Speaker
is going to make them a little less predictable.
00:39:41
Speaker
raises the skill level on on flying them a little bit, too. Yeah, for sure. So before we move on, do you guys see this as being meta warping like as completely shifting the way things are now with what's popular like triple arcs? You know, boy, Luke, Han or Lando now. Do you see this making a huge shake up or or what do you think for empire? I.
00:40:11
Speaker
I feel like the only ship that might shake things up, actually two, is Captain Yor and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, Superfell. I'm not sure about the bombers, but at least before the ties, I have a hard time trying to think why you would choose them over, over Backstabber and, and Mahler. Because if you're not flying, um,
00:40:37
Speaker
The I6 defender, yeah, Cardinal Agenda. You're probably a flying Vader. And if you're already flying Vader, why would you choose any other tie except for those two? And just take a look at the other ties. I don't think they can compete. But for rebels, I can see. Interesting. Ah. What do you think, Andrew? Metashaking.
00:41:03
Speaker
No, I don't think it's meta warping. I do think it's going to give more options for Empire to play. I think we're going to see more varied Empire lists.
00:41:21
Speaker
So I think it's going to be shaking in in terms of we're going to start seeing more Captain yours. It might we might see less double decimator lists because you have an option to go a little acer. Like I think that that now there is a. The empire to me feels like it is becoming the ace faction now that that this is where you're going to start seeing like
00:41:52
Speaker
heavy hitting I6s, I think it's going to give a reason for all the other factions to make sure that they have at least one I6 in their list. Because you might have to be matched up with a Genin and a Suunter in one list and you have the issues you had in 2.0 when you were flying against Republic aces where halfway through the game, you might not be able to catch them ever again.
00:42:22
Speaker
Um, so I think that it's going to be meta shifting in that way. I feel like if that's the case, it definitely puts a couple of factions even further back. Like I go to example would be CIS, right? If you need an ISICS near your list, what ISICS do they have? Django. Okay. Yeah. Is, um, Sun Fac, ISICS? Sun Fac's not very favored these days with now the ships.
00:42:52
Speaker
out there. Yeah, I would I would say this might be more more meta warping once we get a full points change. We could I don't think right now that they're going to do too much, but it does clarify the way the empire's empire has even more high initiative to deal with now. And like you said, just they've been leaning into the high initiative for a while and they have more options.
00:43:12
Speaker
We'll see how they utilize it, but yeah, yeah, it does tie into the next. Oh, God. Oh, I just wanted to give a quick shout out to site six, the BOE, which is the eye to tie fighter, which has an extra hull and is doing the F.O. thing where when you perform an attack at range one to two, you can roll an extra die. So it's a three die eye to three point tie fighter.
00:43:41
Speaker
Isn't it perform attack a two to three, you get an extra die, or is it just range one and two? So it basically has an extra heightened range one. But that's like, FO has been kind of the cheating extra die attacks for me. So I think that we might see maybe some slight six, just being a three tie, or a three red tie. Yeah, another extra attack die. Yeah, extra attack die.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, also has another has a focus in or has a barrel roll into red for our red evade linked action, which is interesting. Lots to explore. We don't you know, we I want I wish we could go into. Yeah, I just wanted to give just a shout out for just some cross faction bending stuff. So this.
00:44:32
Speaker
We talked about how some of some like you said, some are being more pushed. And I want to talk about just the overall nature of power creep. And, you know, that's, I think, a saying that people throw out there sometimes. I want to know how you guys define power creep. I'll ask Manny first, Manny, your definition of that. It's always a hard thing to define, but it's easy to point out once you see it, right?
00:45:00
Speaker
If I had to give a definition, I would say new cards that come out that make previously existing cards pretty redundant or just straight up unused. A quick example would be all of the ties that are in the Stater Loadout category have an extra hull.
00:45:24
Speaker
And all these other abilities that I can see why you would choose like, like build your own tie. Uh, over, over standard loadout tie. So that's like, that's something that I believe is, is a type of the type of power creep. Okay. Andrew.
00:45:46
Speaker
No, I would agree with that definition. Yeah, it's it's that you are the new product is is making previous versions or older versions obsolete. Yeah, I would say that to add to that, it's to me the power creep is when.
00:46:04
Speaker
something emerges as such an ideal and obvious choice that even if everything else is still good, it's you are making a mistake in not using the ideal and obvious choice. Yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it. Yeah.
00:46:20
Speaker
So, you know, this will just the beginning, the tip of the iceberg of this kind of conversation we're going to have about this game design balancing the precedent that's set with introducing certain aspects, certain things you can do into the game that maybe we haven't seen before. And it's always the intention is always good behind putting it into the game to freshen things up and make things different and feel more unique.
00:46:46
Speaker
But sometimes it can start an avalanche, you know, it's like the first pebble to start an avalanche. Some games have died because of these sorts of power creepy things that emerge that just kind of start a cascading effect that
00:47:04
Speaker
breaks fundamentally breaks the game and gets people to leave. This is nothing to do with my opinion on how I think the game is now. I don't think there is a lot of power creep in X-wing right now, but I do think that there is more than I expected to see maybe a year ago. But I don't worry about it that much. I just think that it's becoming a little bit more apparent than maybe we had been dealing with a year ago, for example.
00:47:32
Speaker
And so for you guys, I'll ask another question. What is the tipping point for you personally when a game gets too unbalanced? How long would you what's what's where do you draw the line general? I'm just talking about gaming in general here, not not maybe X-wing specifically. But when would you walk away from a game because of this kind of thing? Oh, um.
00:47:57
Speaker
Andrew, yeah, I'm gonna let you answer that first. Sure, yeah. Honestly, you know, for this, I mean, I would walk away when it would get, you know, just too boring. I'm someone who, you know, I switch around which factions I play. I like new things, but I also like a lot of variety in the lists I play and I want to see, you know, a meta that has a lot of like those lists.
00:48:24
Speaker
Um, if it gets so broken, you know, as, as to what I've, I've heard with like some of the things in, in 1.0 where, um, you know, there's for each faction, there is one definitive way to build that faction. And if you don't do it that way, then you're wrong and you're going to, you know, pay for it.
00:48:43
Speaker
Um, or when you get to a point where like there's one or, you know, or maybe three lists that are all rock, paper, scissors with each other, but those are the only three, you know, a great list, but then they all counter each other. So basically tournaments are decided by your matchup. Yeah. Um, yeah. I feel that Andrew kind of put my opinion into words better.
00:49:07
Speaker
than I can. I mean, if you're a SCUMM or a RSCIS player, how have you not already quit the game? Honestly. Because you want to prove everybody wrong that you're the one who can figure it out.
00:49:23
Speaker
I mean he makes a he makes a point when he says that is more of a joke but he did there's some sentiment behind it that I guess yeah right I mean I have a friend I have a friend Lloyd who is a pure scum player all like
00:49:38
Speaker
like, uh, thrown through and he has just kind of lost his passion in, in, and the entire game. And honestly, I can't blame him. I mean, if like, I only play T seventies and if we ever enter like a format where T seventies are not viable anymore, I'm out. Yeah. I mean, actually, in my, in my humble opinion, it's not.
00:50:03
Speaker
Like in terms of its mechanics, it's not a great game, but like, I like the flying aspect. It's fun. I wanted to say that it's like a well-designed game. But X-Wing? Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker
Don't disagree with you there. I feel like it's a future podcast. I feel like that's a discussion for a. It's not. It's a. Well, I think it's a very well designed game. I just don't think it's a very good competitive game when you take when you when you put every factor into what makes like.
00:50:34
Speaker
Competitive X-wing, competitive X-wing. I think it's behind that, actually. I think it's a better way of putting it, actually. Well, the Fly Better guys even said like, you know, shout out to D.U. and Ryan Farmer, like they mentioned that ultimately X-wing is not that, you know, it's not really a very balanced competitive game when you incorporate all the things, the ways that you can win or lose your games in a tournament versus some other more, you know, more popular competitive games that people play.
00:51:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's I think it's hard. I think it's hard to balance. It certainly is with seven factions, although technically there are six if you don't count scum. I mean, we almost don't even count scum. Yeah, I mean, because I will say like you are walking that line where, yeah, like not only does it have to be a tournament game, but also has to be thematic as well. So we're.
00:51:26
Speaker
you know, those factions are, you know, doing things that are that feel like, you know, flying for for those factions would do. But yeah, I mean, it's tough. Yeah. So just to go into specifics about like why, you know, competitively X-wing might to me isn't like the best. And this you should take solace in this is all those competitive players is that X-wing is
00:51:50
Speaker
Right now, specifically in the forefront of things is heavily influenced by scenario packs and specific factions getting, you know, now two factions getting two of them now. They're getting new stuff. They're getting good stuff. They're getting cheap stuff, efficient stuff. Others are not. Resistance, scum, separatist and first order are not benefiting from that. That's four out of seven factions.
00:52:17
Speaker
or I guess, seperates as you could say, but it's not right, but it's not to the extent that Republic has benefited from it. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. The other thing is just pure match ups. There are just some lists that you play or that you'll play against.
00:52:31
Speaker
that are like really good at like that one scenario or like really like you have bullseye mechanics and like rockets like oh a large base on the other side of the table and then you go up against aces and you're like man I mean I'm making all the right moves and choices but my opponent simply has perfect information and it's reacting to everything I'm doing.
00:52:49
Speaker
right or you're going up against the one separatist list or the fo list that turns everything into crits so like picking up crates is you know why why even do it yeah you fly against a bunch of x1s on salvage oh and then there's just the dice aspect which is one of the best parts about x1 because it just kind of makes the randomness of like oh yeah just because you have a ranged one double modded shot doesn't mean you're gonna get the kill doesn't mean you're gonna get four hits or five hits like you know but
00:53:14
Speaker
It's exciting. Yeah, you get dice sometimes like your opponent will will roll out of everything and you just be like, man, I can't just can't buy any averageness, average variance in this game. It's just not sucks to suck, I guess. Well, I mean, no, I mean, I think I think that that little bit of variance is important. Like that's the reason why I love X-wing over chess is that, you know, X-wing, the more skilled player will probably, you know, still all like win.
00:53:44
Speaker
But the variance smooths it over just a little bit so that people who are almost as good still have a chance of winning and still have a reason to play like those games out in in in tournaments and things the the other thing that I mean just the last of the many factors just want to really make this point clear is the
00:54:07
Speaker
the way they approach to the game. There's a lot of people who play this game because they love Star Wars, for example, and they're playing Han or Luke or Vader or, you know, who are all good, obviously still, or just like, you know, let me use a less America or something. Lebo, because it's their favorite character. They're more casual about it.
00:54:29
Speaker
And so, when you take the people who are love the game and want to play the tournaments but they have a more casual approach to it, pit it up against the people who net list and we're purely looking at data and statistics and probabilities. There's an already a rift in terms of
00:54:45
Speaker
balance because people have chosen to approach the game competitively in various ways which i think is overall something i like about it it's not a complaint by any means but it's just there's a lot of things that affect balance in this game and i just don't think ultimately with all of that said i just don't think that the game is a great balance competitive
00:55:06
Speaker
game in terms of total global balance, especially right now when multiple factions are almost unplayable competitively, like winning tournaments type competitive. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would agree that that there's a lot of factions that for sure need help. Yeah.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah, but we don't have to dive down that rabbit hole. But, you know, let's talk about let's talk about what it's what's become apparent now. We've been with atomic mass games for a while. We've been able to see I've heard firsthand being able to have an awesome conversation with them about the way they see the game, what they're passionate about, the direction they're trying to take the game and how they look at designing things.
00:55:44
Speaker
You know, I guess I can just I'll start like I think atomic mass games his is really their emphasis is on the more casual thematic nature appeal of X-Wing improving on that side of it because the game has always had a good competitive scene. I think they're trying to add more features around scenarios, more pilots that feel thematic and fun to build out the narrative side of Star Wars X-Wing.
00:56:13
Speaker
to feel like a more complete game where you can buy it at the game store and play it at your apartment without a mat on your kitchen island, or you can take it to the game store and play in a tournament. They want to appeal to every gamer who could touch this game. And I think we're seeing some unintended consequences of certain designs becoming very good in competitive play. And then we're seeing some that are
00:56:41
Speaker
you know, designed exactly as they want it to be. That's the way that I see their priorities with the game. I'm curious how you guys see it. I know maybe I'll start with Manny because I know Manny has some takes and opinions on this. Oh, yeah. Yeah, AMG definitely wants us to play more of like the name pilots, the more.
00:57:01
Speaker
anyone's pilots, I think they like the fact that there's like a Luke and a Darth Vader and almost every Rebel Empire list. Yeah, they're trying to broaden their appeal, even
00:57:20
Speaker
I personally believe perhaps at the cost at the current core base, I find there to be less of an emphasis on just this building. I mean, specifically in terms of building your own ships with upgrades, there's definitely
00:57:41
Speaker
been an emphasis on these cider loadout cards, which me, personally, I'm not too crazy about. I am a fan on how it's able to bring new people into the game. But in terms of the, I guess, the competitive aspect, not that I'm a fan. But yeah, I think I rambled enough. I will throw it to you, Andrew.
00:58:06
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree that they are pushing more towards the fun design aspect of it, making some of these named pilots feel really special and awesome and cool. And they are very cool. I see that now with the Battle of Endor, more than anything, I feel like AMG has an idea of
00:58:34
Speaker
what they want the rebel and the empire factions to look like and how they want them to play in a casual but also in a tournament scene as well so i think i feel like they're at the point where they are figuring out the identity for
00:58:52
Speaker
for some of these factions and how they want tournament play. I don't think it's at the expense of a new player base, though. And I don't think it's at the expense of the casual players. The one thing that I do feel is shifting this a bit is the same thing where it's a company that makes this game. And at the end of the day, they want to sell product. And so they are like,
00:59:19
Speaker
a long time ago on an interview that I heard with, you know, apply better. They mentioned things like, oh, um, the standard cards that are going to be coming in the core set. People won't need to buy the core set if they already own all the ships. And then they come out with like.
00:59:35
Speaker
one Vader that's better than anything else. So you are going to see like in the initial spoilers for Battle of Endor came out and it was like
00:59:52
Speaker
You know, they came up with like Lando and Soontier and you're like, whoa, these pilots are pushed. Everything else seems pretty normal and tame considering it, which is what I kind of thought was like they have like, it seems like every set they're coming out with, there's going to be a big reason to buy it. And and that's been kind of the design philosophy that's that's moving forward. So.
01:00:16
Speaker
Which I would be OK with if it was shared amongst all of the other factions, right? Right. Like if you're planning, if you're planning to pirate creep, don't just do favorites, like at least try to do it amongst all of the other factions. I agree with that. It's it's it's hard because you like a great point. It is a business. They're trying to push certain things to sell product. The
01:00:41
Speaker
The frame of reference we have is obviously Fantasy Flight games when they handled X-Wing because they created it.
01:00:49
Speaker
And Fantasy Flight was always the way that they looked at the game and brought in new product and made adjustments and erratas and all that stuff was much more on the competitive game. They only cared about how things were fairing at the highest level, and then it would trickle down all the way to those who played it casually. But they looked at the data. They cared very much about
01:01:12
Speaker
specific interactions and just basically looking at it for more of like a numbers perspective and AMG is much more of a story based company there they're more about the experience the playing that flying the Star Wars ships around FMG was more about
01:01:28
Speaker
the mechanics and about the specifics and maybe more of the details. I'm not saying that one is superior than the other, but it's a fact that Fantasy Flight Games had a very different idea of what X-wing was and AMG has a very different idea of what X-wing is and should be moving forward. And, you know, you can coexist with a still detail oriented, but now thematic and narrative based game. And that's where Atomic Mask Games is trying to take it.
01:01:57
Speaker
It's very clear that they very much more of a fan about just like, hey, man, you're playing a Star Wars game with these cool painted ships. You're you're you're dog fighting. You've got objectives and satellites. And, you know, FFG was like, yeah, we tried scenarios and they didn't work. So just dog fighting. It's like that was that was the way they were. Yeah, I will say that AMG definitely has a way on how this game should be played.
01:02:26
Speaker
And I don't want to say it's either my way or for the highway, but it definitely did feel as if when 2.5 came out, it felt as if they told us that.
01:02:40
Speaker
that we were kind of playing the game, Ron. And it's going to be a polarize that they they if they I know that it was polarizing, then it was. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was going to say I'm disagreeing with that. They would have referred. They would have referred. Well, they they're the wording was bad, like, you know, them flat out saying that people didn't know what the objective of the game was. It's just a false statement. It's just that's not what they meant, though. I know that's ultimately right right now that.
01:03:06
Speaker
But like you got to not say it that way because it does piss people off. It's like this is a dog fighting game. You're shooting at other ships and trying to destroy them. That's the objective of the game. You know, and so they got so much flack, so much heat for that. Yeah. And things have obviously calmed down, calmed down a lot. But yeah, it's is one of those things where I think a lot of people felt very threatened because it's like, hey, we're taking literally everything, including this building and we're flipping it upside down and
01:03:33
Speaker
changing everything and it was a big change for sure. It was a big change. 2.0 was just out there in terms of the games under their umbrella. I believe 2.5 was their attempt of bringing it closer to what they. Were they wanted to be today? Yeah, like to what they know. And yeah, that comes with upsides and downsides and a very polarized fan base, so.
01:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, and they ship power creep. Just like one last thing. It's also important to not power creep too fast, because if you do, you make the previous product pretty redundant, right? Yeah, I mean, I just want to just touch touching on the power creep thing, because I didn't really chime in on where I would draw the line. If I'm not having fun anymore, it's just really where I walk away.
01:04:24
Speaker
I've I've taken more breaks from recently, I'll be honest, like I've been playing this imperialist that I am so good with and I win so much with. I'm very fortunate that I found something I have fun with that I've had success with. But it's gotten to the point where I just like I'm not really. When I bring it, I'm like, here we go again, another just going through the motions, not really enjoying it. Like I'm going to bring it to worlds. But, you know, like I felt the need to take some intermittent breaks from playing here and there just to keep myself fresh.
01:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, because I do feel like I'm seeing a lot of just I'm playing a lot of similar things or playing against a lot of similar things. And, you know, I'm still having fun, but it's once you don't have any fun anymore. It that's when you kind of have to walk away in this. Yeah. In this in between time, you know, I've been just trying new things. I've been playing extended lists, honestly, just to just to shake it up a bit. Yeah.
01:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's gotten a little boring. I don't know. Like there's a lot of choices, but it's just like like Manny said, like I have components to play the other factions. And I'm like, but like none of this is good compared to like all these standard loadout parts that I could use. I mean, I think it's going to get shaken up again before worlds with the battle vendor over end or for sure.
01:05:41
Speaker
Yeah. Over two factions, right? Right. Yeah. So more people might play. I'd be I'd be surprised if like a drastic shift like everybody playing on pirate rebels, but there will be no people. I don't think it's actually it's drastic, but it's going to I mean, it's exciting me just because it gives I have to practice against, you know, soon tier or with or, you know, like I I'd like to get these ships like on the table just to
01:06:07
Speaker
figure him out because, you know, you're going to see him. Yeah, it's the standard loadout cards are. So here's here's here's something I really like to hammer home in terms of like we need new players in this game and we need more new players and to continue that pattern of adding people into the the community, the great community that is X-Wing. And I think outside of the complaints about there just being too much good stuff on one pilot,
01:06:31
Speaker
There is a way too much to keep track of with these new SL cards. It's like it is. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's like there's five Darth Vader's. I'm just like, people are going to have to pause their games to read their pilots to be like, what can I do here? Because there's 18 different things I can do here for one pilot.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say with the initial when they talked about they created the standardized cards for new players. I'm going to call hokum on that right now that no, these are not for new players. These are for players who are veterans and really understand the game, because even for me, it's it's a lot. And it's like, I mean, honestly, I think that these cards are for
01:07:16
Speaker
us are for competitive players who have played the game for a while. Which is so funny, because I don't think that's what they're intending, though. Really? That's exactly what I think they're intending. You think they want people to buy this scenario packet and play it at home? I don't think they're trying to make this for the competitive players only. Well, no, no, no, no. I didn't say only. No, I didn't say competitive players. I said,
01:07:42
Speaker
experienced player, right? Well, I to me, a veteran player is somebody that plays the game seriously and plays a lot because they've been playing it for a long time. I know. So will work. But it's for people who know how a B wing flies. And then when you say, hey, look at all these like crazy linked actions you can do, look at all this stuff, then you're like, oh, this is different. This is special.
01:08:03
Speaker
Like, man, streaming these games, like streaming games with this stuff, I'm like, I have what's going on. Why is this person like, you know, spending charge to remove a red and orange token at the same time? Why are they rolling a die randomly in the middle of activation? Like, oh, it's just like it's even just just covering it from a commentary perspective. It's like I have to go over and reread the card over there because I can't memorize this stuff. It's it's so much to keep track of.
01:08:28
Speaker
When we're doing commentary, there's, or for anyone who's doing commentary, there's going to be a lot of those, like, Oh, white, white, where is that target lot coming from? Oh, right. This ship has a special links. I have like a bit of a tinfoil hat theory. Uh, and please let me know if I'm Ron, but I personally believe that AMG is trying to phase out, like build your own list with upgrades for these standard loadout cards.
01:08:55
Speaker
Uh, and like after power creep, but just like, well, if you're not flying these certain loadout cards, then what exactly are you doing? Uh, if you are trying to win, uh, am I wrong or is that just like a vibe that I'm getting? And it's like, it, it's just me. I don't, I don't think that I have a different take on, on maybe what's going on. Yes.
01:09:21
Speaker
Again, I'm going to like go and point to their, like, uh, to their other games, like, to their other, like, um, like with, uh, Shatterpoint and, um, and all other games have kind of evolved around like a standard loadout aspect. And again, with the whole upgrades and like to build your own, they are just not comfortable with that. And case of point Armada and how they kind of.
01:09:47
Speaker
let that game die because that is a game that is truly dependent on making your own capital ships, choosing your upgrades crew, and they just are choosing to no longer support it.
01:09:59
Speaker
I don't think that it's because that they're uncomfortable people building their own. I think that it is easier for them to just design a product that fits into a current meta, but then also they can design a product that is really good in that one form to make you buy that product. It's the only place that you could get
01:10:27
Speaker
that Core Set version of Vader. And they can control how good or bad it is by just raising the base points for the pilot skill. Is that they wouldn't be able to sell a Core Set unless they put in a whole brand new upgrade or something. So by packaging it together on one card, they don't have to
01:10:52
Speaker
create a new game component. They can take existing game components, cost it effectively, and then now make you buy that. But from a list building perspective, I can't play. I almost can't really play the customizable Tomax, because he's just so much more neutered now than the standard one.
01:11:10
Speaker
If the other one over the build your own soon tier, old soon tier, you know, makes way for the new soon tier. And it's just, it's just such a extend extending pattern. Now the arc one seventies over the build your own arc one seventies. Yeah. No, I mean, why would you ever fly customizable Luke or the, or, well, I mean, so in, in the future, I mean, all you have to do one, I mean, I will say that right now.
01:11:38
Speaker
Because the other Darth Vader's are so good, there's no reason why the build your own needs to be one point. You know, you could make that one point lower, like a six point and I don't see them changing that. But they could. I mean, they could raise the points. You know, if they if Luke goes up one point for the the Battle of the Avenue, Luke goes up one point. Now he's unplayable. Now you want to build the.
01:12:01
Speaker
now you have to grab the uh yeah like build your that's true like they're able to but i see no evidence that they have a desire to well i mean they're also you know pretty new but i i mean i but i don't think that the the the core i mean i who knows what's going on with their their game design or or what they're thinking but i i don't feel that
01:12:25
Speaker
the standardized cards are coming from a place that they don't like the build your own aspect. I think it's more of that it's an easy way for them to make a pilot and a ship very good, but in a very controlled way. I mean, I will happily say that I'm wrong when they release a new upgrade card.
01:12:46
Speaker
Or a pilot that isn't standardized. That's true. I will be the first one to admit. Just a couple months ago though, they came out with the hotshots and aces too. That was still FFG, correct? A couple months ago. That was a long time ago. That was an FFG product that had Angie's name on it. That was a long time ago. But I mean, if they come out with other hotshots and aces pack, then, you know,
01:13:08
Speaker
That'd be great. And that'll be true. I will happily say I'm Ron on this podcast in a future episode. But I mean, I'm just looking at what we have right now and what's likely going to happen in the future. I'm just like, I just don't see it in the realm of possibility. I will be more than happy to be proven wrong. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is the the drawback of like coming out with
01:13:33
Speaker
like something new like like this this these talents that are stapled on on these pilots now like like true grit from like the bomber pack like you can put true grit on on
01:13:47
Speaker
on that one bomber and it has like that ability, it's easy to control because if you come out with the true grit talent card and everybody can use it, that's just, that's harder for, or it's easier for that to become broken and to, and to, to price it, you know, uh, yeah, when it, when any pilots can take it.
01:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think it shows that it's actually like a pretty dimming part about this is that these cards are balanced around the scenario and not the competitive game. At least like that's where their priorities lie in terms of balancing. Well, I mean, I mean, the bomber packs were balanced around the competitive game. I don't know. I feel like we're just talking circles at this point, but yeah, we kind of are. Yeah, it's.
01:14:31
Speaker
They they said that they were like, they believe that that list building is a, you know, an important feature of the game of X-Wing and that, you know, recognize the value of it on on on. Yeah. OK. When they said that. And at the time we had more recent product that that kind of affirmed that belief. I don't feel it as much now with more recency bias. It seems like that's skewing the other direction. My imperialist now has four out of five of my pilots are standardized.
01:14:57
Speaker
I don't love that. It's it's easier in terms of clean up and set up. Sure. It's awesome. Good. Great. But like, it's not what I need. Like, oh, like, you know, I only want to play stuff that's easy to put on the table. Like, it's OK. I can spend two minutes building, building your own ships is a lot of fun. I mean, that's I that's why I don't feel that this is something that is going to go away because they they know
01:15:24
Speaker
I know I would feel that the designers would also feel that that is a very fun aspect and what people like to do. I do. I do hope so. And if you play resistance and F.O., you have to build your own lists. Well, yeah, true. But I mean, I definitely have like some favorites, at least among rebels and empire. I mean, again, I'd like to be proven wrong. I guess we'll see you soon. Adepticons coming up. So yeah, we should be hearing about some new product, right?
01:15:53
Speaker
right? Yeah, if we don't, if we don't, then we'll have a different conversation. Yeah, you hope so. Gonna be cautiously. I had a new hobby. Oh, come on. Heroes of the archery cluster is very fun. And also I would say that the actual community, I'm a crazy homeless guy just shouting out the end is near.
01:16:16
Speaker
I that you're you and all have read it. It's impressive that you're it's impressive that you're podcasting without without any I don't know what kind of power outlet situation he got, but good for you. He found a place that he is casting from a subway right now. I was going to say, yeah, I mean, you know, like the like last week's episode to like the X-Wing community is is so strong. And right now that I'm not worried that anything would
01:16:45
Speaker
that it would be the entire collapse of the game in the near future if they didn't come out with anything new. Yeah, hopefully. But here's the advantage of Bea Skeptic.
01:16:57
Speaker
Either you're pleasantly surprised or you're right. Or your expectations are met because you were a skeptic. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess I don't I won't go into it. But you mentioned Adepticon Manny. That is coming up. Everybody I believe the the last chance qualifier is now sold out March 20th through the 24th in Schomburg at the Renaissance Hotel. That is where Worlds will be for X-Wing.
Community Engagement and Promotions
01:17:22
Speaker
Andrew and I and a few other of our locals will be there. Come and say hi. You'll see us. Yeah.
01:17:28
Speaker
with the Skyline and the X-Wing flag. The patented, not really patented design that we have. Very proud of it. Is there any last words, guys, before I sign us off here? I'm good.
01:17:40
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say I'm really excited. Hopefully by the time this podcast comes out, people will be able to get and play Battle over Endor. And I'm looking to get in a game or two of the scenario because it looks fun. Yeah, it might be as late as March 15th, according to Asmodee. But if people get it early, we'll definitely. Well, there we go. People post pictures. So, yeah, I want to thank our continued partner Strata Strike.
01:18:06
Speaker
who creates incredible gaming components on Etsy, including amazing components like wood template trays, objective tokens, and more for X-wing. You can use discount code 312Squadron, that's 312 capital S, and then lowercase Q-U-A, D-R-O-N, for 15% off your entire purchase for anything on their Etsy store.
01:18:28
Speaker
Be sure to follow us on Twitch to catch us live. You can catch our edited content on YouTube. You can like us on Facebook. Jump into the conversation directly with us and our Discord. I also want to thank all of our patrons who have supported us. A lot of them get exclusive edited content.
01:18:46
Speaker
and these unedited live stream sessions posted exclusively to them and early. I would just want to give a shout out to our patrons, Kevin. I want to give Mike, David, Dean, Digicind, William, Dale, Matthew, Adam, Brendan, Michael, Justin, Mark, John, Joshua, Daniel, Alex, Steven, Matt, Peter,
01:19:11
Speaker
Andrew and Scott, thank you all for keeping us going. It really, really helps us a lot. We really do appreciate it to everyone that listens to our podcast and watches our streams and is just a part of the community. We do appreciate it greatly. Thank you all so much. My name is Nick Sperry. I'm Andrew Cuba. And I'm Emmanuel. Thanks, guys, for listening. Thank you all. Have a wonderful day. Good night.