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Episode 20: The X-Wing Alliance!
155 Plays5 months ago
A long time ago… in a windy city, far, far away… Your hosts Nick Sperry, Andrew Kouba, and special guest Matt Cary come together to overview the new era of community X-Wing with the XWA and their new beta points!
Visit the XWA’s main site: https://www.xwing.life/home
Stay up to date on X-Wing Alliance announcements in the 2.5 Edition Discord server: https://discord.gg/x-wing
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Return
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to the 312 Squadron podcast. My name is Nick Sperry. I'm Andrew Cuba. And I'm Matt Carey. And we are back with lots of news, new developments, new points. Things are happening in the X-Wing world, and we haven't really been podcasting as much, especially
Team Reunion and Guest Introduction
00:00:21
Speaker
Andrew. You and I haven't teamed up in a bit, but it's nice to have you back. And a lot a lot of exciting things to talk about. And Matt, welcome back. It's been a long time since you joined us. I'm nice to be
Matt Carey's X-Wing Involvement
00:00:32
Speaker
here.
00:00:32
Speaker
I mean, I was going to say, you know, I know you were working a lot with the ex-WA stuff and there was a lot of things that we couldn't talk about and it's great now that we have something big to talk about. And I think we'll have a lot more talk about going forward.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and And for those of you that have listened to the podcast up to this point, the last two episodes, Andrew behind the scenes has done a lot of hard work in helping edit and and produce.
X-Wing Community Reflections
00:00:55
Speaker
But yeah we did some interviews with Brian Gambrel from Roll Better, who created Roll Better. And then, of course, ah Harry Nick from the YouTube channel, X-Wing content creator Harry Nick. So those episodes were awesome. But we haven't done like a traditional podcast episode like this in a while. It's been a hot event.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for our friend Matt jumping on and it's going to be great. I couldn't think of anyone better to have this discussion with us. Oh, how flattering. It's nice to be here.
00:01:26
Speaker
Welcome to the show, Matt. Welcome back. um Matt, you are also a new addition to the X-Wing Alliance and in a play testing kind of capacity.
Gameplay and Community Dynamics
00:01:38
Speaker
What has that been like first few days? um Yeah, so it's it's been less than a week, I think. I think I joined like two days before the points dropped. So that was kind of exciting in its own. I got to see a little bit of the behind the scenes as everybody's I don't want to say panicking, but everybody's in in gear.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah. I was going to say this happens every time there's new points. Yeah. So i like, but watching it see from seeing it from internal, you know, like where everybody's like, all right, we need to get this in order. We got to have this in order. We have to, and ah you know, is a launch bay, you know, that should be popping up the same time. And then them say, you know, getting to see the internals behind
Playtest Data and Spreadsheet Passion
00:02:19
Speaker
it. It it's it was interesting. Yeah.
00:02:21
Speaker
ah Yeah, I have largely been brought on to help collate the Playtest data when it comes in. I'm i'm very much a Spreadsheets guy. but i I make them for fun, as weird to say, but like I love playing with data. I do it a lot with X-Wing and other things, but mainly X-Wing.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, Excel is the coolest computer program in the world, and I will die on that hill. ah Aside from when it wants to make everything a date. i i Well, yeah yeah. I wish you could just set it to a default to not do it, but they're just like, no, no, you have to. You have to. Like, I just want to make the whole spreadsheet, not dates. Yes. Insert joke about single life here.
00:03:09
Speaker
I don't want to break capacity to make one, but yeah, me too. I just where're I really struggle with make everything. It's a date, you know, man. So many of those. ah Matt, you it's I wanted to talk to you about kind of your like journey the last couple of years and as it relates to X-Wing because you.
Matt's X-Wing Journey and Challenges
00:03:27
Speaker
You have been an avid part of the X-Wing community for quite a long time, playing in the Midwest and going to a lot of tournaments and having a lot of success. and then you kind of just i don't You got as close to quitting X-Wing as you could get without full stop quitting X-Wing, but you basically took a pretty long break. um You just stopped playing. A lot of your locals stopped playing. Can you kind of walk me through like what made you do that? like Walk me through everything up to this point, honestly, and without taking 10 years.
00:03:56
Speaker
ah So, started playing X-Wing in about 2017, invited by Dan in the Midwest Grub himself.
Competitive Success and Meta Changes
00:04:04
Speaker
He was a high school friend and he was like, hey, play this game with Star Wars and miniatures and board games. And I liked all three of those things. So, I did. Then I started getting really good pretty quick.
00:04:17
Speaker
And started doing really well when in some local tournaments in first edition and second edition happened and i won the first big tournament of second edition which is the gold squadron pocket gold spot in classic. And then kept winning stuff and nearly winning stuff for a couple years and then.
00:04:37
Speaker
um Like you said, i I started tuning out and that was largely because 2.5 drop. not
Frustrations with New Ruleset
00:04:47
Speaker
Not a fan of the list building as much. I think ah we'll we'll get to current points. but list building, but largely the objectives doesn't, uh, doesn't jive with me. And, uh, so when I would do list building, I'd be like, okay, I think this is the best list. And then everybody else would build that exact same list. So I didn't feel like the beautiful unique snowflake. Um, so I, uh, I kind of tuned out and then specifically, um, after world's 2023.
00:05:20
Speaker
The meta had been stale for a little while already, and then it just continued for another year and like four months. I was very much tuned out for that.
Community Adaptation and Dynamics
00:05:30
Speaker
I still played in some online tournaments. I played in the last Kiber League and I played in the Nickel City League, and then I hopped in on the team was Nickel City. I was so I was still playing Tinder Gods. Yeah, so that was Nickel City. So yeah.
00:05:46
Speaker
um So yeah, I very, I got really disillusioned. Some of it was AMGs, how they responded to the community, how they were bad at communication, but not a whole lot. It's not the same game to me. Like a lot of the fundamentals are the same. It's like comparing, uh, American football to the rest of the world football. Yeah. You're, you're playing on a rectangle. You got to get the ball to the other end and score.
00:06:13
Speaker
You need extreme athleticism and you know you need to you know have team teamwork, but a lot of the rules are different. It's ah similar, but not the same. so And I don't begrudge anybody you know disliking it or liking it. you know It's like, you know if it's not a game that you you like, then you know be like me and a lot. So ah another thing is a lot of the locals when 2.5 came around. I think the last tournament of 2.5 recently was only four people. So it's it's like we we went from like somewhere around like 20 some odd people that would show up typically like we'd get like 13 people for a tournament for a local tournament and it's down to four. A lot of my podcast mates like Dan was immediately out.
00:07:03
Speaker
Clint slowly got out and then Emily is you know kind of there as well So it's just that also, you know when you when you lose the community You also kind of you dip out. So that's kind of where is that? Yeah, however recently with ah specifically 312 points that Nick did I I was playing a lot of
Rediscovering Fun in List Building
00:07:25
Speaker
games. It was fun. It was fresh. It was new and I liked a lot of the ideas that were explored like Nick you had picked some some upgrades and some pilots and that allowed you to do different things with the points and I it was just nice to
00:07:41
Speaker
Have fun list building again, because that's like half the game for me is this building. Yeah, I know some people don't enjoy it. Some people do. How did it affect? How did this you and your community kind of having a bit of of tapering off affect the podcast? I know you guys still record, right? But obviously you don't really talk much about X-Wing. Yeah. if You know, maybe a little bit like how did that happen how did that affect the podcast? ah We well, we used to release ah biweekly and now we record maybe once a month. ah We still record but not a whole lot. ah I think currently the goal is to get to episode 100 and then just call it quits and we're in the 90s right now. did oh well yeah we Whenever we would try to keep stay on subject with X-Wing, Dan would just tune out because he was so hard turned off by 2.5. He just didn't enjoy it at all. So he would just
00:08:34
Speaker
tune out and you could just see his eyes glaze over once we started talking about it. And then we just kind of decided, you know, as each one of us lost a little interested, we just started talking about whatever the heck we wanted to, which has been fun, but it's a ah lot less directed. And I could talk for the entire hour that our podcast is. The rest of them don't don't have as much of it the gift of gab that I do. So it it just becomes me talking to my friends.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough it's cool that you guys are yeah still going for it. That milestone is that's big. Yeah. Yeah. So i'll I'll kind of piggyback off of that a little bit.
Community Division and Reconciliation
00:09:12
Speaker
Seeing you take a break, um I feel like was us I feel like maybe a ah symbol of just kind of how divided the X-Men community had gotten um over time since the end of 2.0 to the AMG era of 2.0 that lasted just a brief amount of time to their era of 2.5 and the iterations, the couple that they've made to the rules and the points. And, you know, obviously seeing people who have been dedicated players of X-Wing kind of just not want to play anymore. It definitely it has a little bit of a ripple effect, like, it you know, seeing that is just like, oh, man, that sucks. But then seeing you come back
00:09:49
Speaker
with, you know, you you you kind of almost being inspired by the community points. I know Maui um with the XWA he had before XWA started made his own points. I did ours for a bit. And seeing you be inspired and to to build and play again, I thought like it really excited me. And then to see you join the XWA's efforts to, you know, further sustain the game, I think is a really cool maybe yeah third act for the story for you. Yeah.
00:10:16
Speaker
well Yeah, the game is still fun. Yeah. The way that I've like approached 2.5 throughout this entire time, because there was a lot of, we'll say, kickback to any criticism you know ah towards the start of 2.5, and it's like, no, this this could be better.
Handling Game Changes and Criticism
00:10:34
Speaker
you know It's like, okay, I'm not an objectives and loadout guy.
00:10:37
Speaker
But maybe at the game, even with objectives and loadouts could be refined. You know, first six months in, AMG did change some of the rules, whereas, you know, no scoring round one and got rid of some oppressive stuff. And yeah, you know, there was a lot of just negative, volatile criticism that I, you know, I'm I'm not.
00:10:59
Speaker
I don't support anybody that we're making personal attacks to AMG and all that kind of jive, but I think I feel like some of the um genuine criticisms about the game where it's like, Hey, we could make this game better. We're also brushed aside with that and just like saying, Hey, you just hate AMG. And it's like, no, that's not it. I want the best. I want the current version of X wing to be the best version of X wing. And.
00:11:26
Speaker
That's kind of where I'm at with XWA. I mean, that's kind of where I've been at whenever, you know, just talking on Reddit or talking on any Discord is I'm trying to create the best X-Wing community, but also encourage the The best version of X-Wing, and being part of XWA for the short amount of time that I had, ah have I feel like I can contribute to that and you know help shape the future to where it is the the most enjoyable version of 2.5 that can
Community's Role in X-Wing's Future
00:11:58
Speaker
be out there.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think this is what the the beauty of taking it into the hands of the community has has always been. This is one thing that I've championed for a long time. I think that, you know, going forward, having input and having the community direct, you know, have direct input into where the direction of this game and what's happening form a ah a community of people who who are going to listen is going to be the best thing going forward for X-Wing. I'm so excited for this new era. yeah yeah definitely I'm cautious about it. I have definitely have some thoughts on community-led X-Wing as being a huge part of it so far and like being the communications person that like puts out all the letterheads and all the streams and everything. Podcast appearances, it's literally me. um I definitely have my own honest thoughts about it that we can get into.
00:12:49
Speaker
um But just to to touch on one thing before we kind of start talking about the beta points and all that stuff. Matt, you had mentioned you know obviously the response to criticism and the different types of criticism that we saw. um Bottom line is it didn't work out. We're here. um and I think some people are are are facing the music when it came to how they treated people on either side of the aisle when it came to the change of the game, we all kind of have to either choose to come together. This is the best shot we got or nothing. And I think there is a compelling that's a compelling situation for a lot of people to keep playing. Otherwise, you know, if it's time to go, time to leave the game, I respect that. But otherwise, this is what we got. Yeah, it's so much somewhat counterintuitively. I think AMG completing the game, as we call it, has
00:13:41
Speaker
been one of the better things for the game because we can put a lot of stuff behind us. We can 100 percent. I don't know. I don't think it has to be about pro AMG or anti AMG anymore. It's just like, hey, this is two point five. Let's play it. Right. I mean, exactly. And also they're a non factor that's in the rearview mirror. Like there's there's also there's so many ways to play X-Wing now to the two point zero legacy is still out there.
00:14:07
Speaker
And then XWA trying something new
Experiences with Different Formats
00:14:10
Speaker
is is always there and available too. So I still think you know going forward, this is the best shot to make the version of the game that we as a community have come together and and can say this is what we wanted. yeah Despite being part of XWA and joining 2.5 tournaments and stuff like that online, I i do play 2.0 Legacy every Thursday. ah that's my That's my local. We have more people that will play Legacy, so that's what I play. I really enjoy that. but That's awesome.
00:14:40
Speaker
again i I will play 2.5 and try and make it the best version of it than I can. Yeah. I mean, it was good to have ah a perspective and a feat in both worlds, too. You know, yeah, especially if you're playing legacy, then, you know, you know, from the old system that the games came from, it's still fresh in your mind. I think that, you know, there's still a lot that even 2.5 can learn from the past. Yeah. um Now, looking ahead, but also quickly make a a mention that JJ brought up in our chat here that um Yeah, AMG is definitely still a factor when it comes to GTs, but that we've seen the turnout for those dwindle. and I mean, they're for the next year, right? Like, I mean, them saying the game is closed is the best thing because that I mean, that means that we have an answer.
00:15:26
Speaker
We don't have to like wait for new points and that we can do things like the XWA and have a little more legitimacy behind it. Could you imagine waiting till worlds next year and maybe think it like the entire time the community thinking, well, maybe we'll get points by by Adepticon next year. Yes, that would have been awful. but wouldn't It wouldn't surprise me. I don't know which one's worse to to announce it right before all your events and hope people turn out for him or to do it to not do anything for the game and draw it out for a year without that. That was.
00:15:55
Speaker
That was my biggest fear was that they were going to do that, you know, that they were going to sit on the IP until, you know, something in their business had shook out where they were going to sell or not, and that they would just sit on it, pretend that it was active.
00:16:07
Speaker
to drive up value um and then you know just kind of slowly let it suffocate. And they did do that with Armada. They did do that with Armada. But they let Armada go, too, in that same report. Yeah. yeah But Armada was an extra year, I think, of just nothing. Right. Yeah. i mean And and and you know it wasn't great for that game.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, so no, I mean, but i'm I'm excited that that, you know, we can do things like release new points and talk about them here. Yeah. Yeah. um And in regards to GTs, anyone that can go should go because it's important to maintain a relationship good relationship with event hosts and TOs who would that we need to make sure we show people that X-Wing isn't completely dead because not everyone has the same optics and same purview of the situation with the XWA as we do. some that That is true. TOs don't know what's going on. I so i know that Dion has a a you know connection to the Adepticon folks and has a good relationship with them. and
00:17:07
Speaker
Uh, I know that adepticon would probably still always have a place with us ah for for us But uh, like you said being able to show that there's attendance. Um, and I really Hope, you know currently we have the the lull where a lot of the the gts are hitting from like 30 to 40 I I hope that I don't want to say spike if it doesn't increase in between now and worlds once worlds is done and xwa becomes the the full stewards of x-wing that we see the the numbers go up so we can secure those events at Nova, at, you know, Golden State Games, at LSO, so all those places. Yeah, for sure. So moving moving on. and I love the way you said leaving the rearview mirror, Andrew, because I do think that it is important that we do kind of just leave the salt and the AMG-ness.
New Beta Points and Meta Shift
00:17:58
Speaker
in the rearview mirror. because just you know Besides having an honest conversation about it, which is important for us in the podcast to have, sure it's it's you know people still it's going to take a while for them to let go of the salt. Just got to put it in our the rearview, move ahead, because a lot of exciting stuff has happened the last few days on Sunday, September 1st, the day before Memorial Day, ah the X-Wing Alliance released its beta points to the community, the builders were updated, and um a lot of changes were made.
00:18:27
Speaker
one of my Favorite times in x-wing the time where you get to see new points and punch out Ships you've never played before out of cardboard dust off those upgrades that you never attached to stuff. Awesome It's like a new game. It really does feel like x-wing is a new game. Yeah, every time the points change Spending all day building theory crafting new lists getting some new lifeblood in the discord servers talking about builds or what they're like Oh, no, this is busted or It's got a nerve. It's great. Yeah. So what are your guys' initial thoughts, Matt? I'll i'll so i'll start with you. yeah Your initial thoughts on the the beta points ah so far this early on. ah I mean, I'm excited. I'm list building. That's like that first day. It's like I built like 12 lists and I was like, well, I can't build anymore right now. I need to actually process because, you know, ah the power level has dropped.
00:19:20
Speaker
We'll say like 10%, at least I don't know. So it's like, I need to build these lists. I need to play them to see where the power levels at. Period. You know, to see, see what's, uh, what works, what I'm excited for right now is just, there's so much in scum. It has a lot of my heart. So they had the most ships that were not in use. Got Gary and the star Viper definitely has a special place in my heart.
00:19:43
Speaker
but then also the Shadowcaster, the Quadjumper, just so many extended ships, even outside of Scum, you know, getting the E-Wing, getting the ah the Type Phantom, the Lambda. The Lambda somehow hadn't been in. And just getting all those back in are very exciting. What about you, Andrew? what What were your first impressions? Yeah. um So my first impressions, we we got to play a little bit on stream this weekend, too. So I got to actually,
00:20:11
Speaker
do a lot of list building. I've been just list building constantly, but then get some stuff out on the table, which was fun. I felt so good just getting my, like, I love flying the Lambda, getting my favorite chips out there again. And then I really enjoyed Empire and First Order. And then seeing what were some of the the bigger meta builds at the end of last season, seeing what those would look like in First Order now. So seeing the power level for some of the old pieces that were very powerful. was was very interesting and unlocking like some new builds there. So um I think that this is a meta that
00:20:48
Speaker
there's a lot of new things to be explored. And one, I'm very happy to see the power levels drop a bit. And it's going to really open up some of the archetypes that we haven't seen as much of, I think, come back into play. Like, we're going to maybe have more ace play and possibly, with Separatist, some swarms coming back?
00:21:10
Speaker
I definitely see that happening. which ah Which is good. I mean, I think we're getting back towards more of the classic archetypes that that we saw at the end of 2.0. Yeah, i I agree. I think one one key point that people are making, whether you're in favor or against, is that the the dynamic of standard loadout cards in lists has changed drastically.
00:21:33
Speaker
um The power level of the most popular commonly ah used SLs was really strong, very self-sufficient. The access to passive or double mods was a huge factor in why people brought them um yeah and in their lists.
00:21:50
Speaker
ah They were good, right? And a lot of them got nerfed. And people, I think, got used to or enjoyed playing specific pilots. Let's just say Jenden is an example. This is a good example, actually, to use because Jenden at seven points was really good. Now that he's eight points, just because he goes up a point doesn't mean he's not good anymore, that he's not playable. He's just one more point because of the power level that he possesses. Right. So you, Matt, you bring him up as it a great example. of You're like, I still build with Jenden.
00:22:15
Speaker
That's what you told me the other day. Yeah, no. like I definitely i will still be building with him. i just yeah You just might have to find a point somewhere, which I think is actually kind of easier right now, because there's some good four pointers. And the other like other empire example is Tomax. he There's no reason he should have been three points. No. Fits at four, and I think he's still and incredibly good at four. You get a double mod plasma. Just some other fun stuff in there. 100%. He's good at four. yeah This weekend, i I played with the standard loadout soon tier in my list, even though the build your own is four points, standard loadout soon tier is also still cracked in half. yeah But I can't take him and Vader like in a list. So it does force like that. You can I mean, what I'm liking what I've seen so far is that you can still have your toys. You just can't have all of them. Yeah. Making X-Wing about the strategic aspect of
00:23:12
Speaker
You know, if you if the ship count average just drops down a little bit, maybe by half a ship, you see more for ship lists. It means the objective play compared to the strategy of your dial choices is emphasized more. The balance of objectives, the weight of it might be
Pilot Viability and New Interests
00:23:27
Speaker
a little different. Like those are really interesting things I'm going to be keeping an eye on as we move forward. I'm excited that not everybody has access to proton rockets. I mean, the great part about.
00:23:38
Speaker
lowering the, the initial yeah yeah torpedoes. I mean, sorry. Yeah. Proton torpedoes lowering the initial offensive output has made it so we're like we can start taking like I two and three ships again. Yeah. um Which was a big thing that was missing. Yeah. I'm really hoping to see those. I won through like I four was, you know, like the edge.
00:24:00
Speaker
You know, that was as far low as you could go. And I feel like if you could see more of those, I won through I threes in there a whole lot more, I think is healthier for the game, but also yeah opens up, you know, it's just going to be more fun that way. I think I agree with Ali had said on the initial points announcement list is that you can't have.
00:24:19
Speaker
Really good ace lists without I1s and I2s being in the meta. Yeah, you can't ace when everybody's ah a 5 and a 6. Exactly. yeah Yeah. And as it played a lot of Empire to Matt's ire. You are a dyed in the wool rebel player. You do not get to play Empire. I've had the most success with with Empire.
00:24:42
Speaker
Oh, I will be playing more rebels. So, guys, pilot pilot wise, what are some pilots that you are like eager to try? If you can name a few, I don't know, two to four. ah I've been flying the IGs and they've just been tons of fun. Like, basically, I've been running two IGs and finding out what else I want to fly fly in the list. I don't know what the rest is, but the IGs are staying in. They're just ah I guess I should specify since Separatist has IGs now, but the scum IGs in the in the aggressor. yeah Just tons of fun. And I look forward to the shadow caster as well. What's that? they're They're both six points that you're playing? Yeah, all all all four or six points. i I really want to fly ah the mandalorreian and the Mandalorian Razorcrest. And the Razorcrest, Anakin Skywalker and the Naboo starfighter looks really fun. And I mean, I want to try a soon to your fella at four points, too. Yeah. Yeah, I yeah so you and I, Andrew, we both play different soon. Tears are super successful. By the way, everyone that watched that stream, huge success, our in-person stream to debut the XWA points were the first stream to stream the points in person. It was it was a great time.
00:25:56
Speaker
You played the SL suntir, which is he's just very, very, very strong. And then I got four point suntir, a four ship imperial aces list. And suntir did some he said did some work. He flanked and got himself at a position where he wasn't in a lot of danger, did some damage. He took out. He helped take out wedge and.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, it's still soon tier. He has the point for targeting computer, um which I mean, that's the only thing is bringing a four point ship. Obviously, there's a lot of risk, but if you lose them, not the end of the world. But if you're always rolling blanks, you can never do anything with them. And being able to take target computer, I think is pretty fair.
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, so I like that. We have access to that. That one point, which I'm taking credit for. I was the one that asked for it and they said, OK, so. So, yeah, let's go. It's all you think got it contributed' the to the points team. Hey, that's not nothing. it's No, I mean, I thought and I didn't know that I had that soon tears is there's a nice spot in all these heart for soon tears. So I thought I'd get through to him if I asked.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yeah, so I i'm I'm afraid to say anything imperial because Matt is here. So I will. Hey, you know, the the dark side leads to ah the dark side is an pathway to many abilities. Yeah, it's a pathway to many of the unnatural.
00:27:14
Speaker
So now now that you've tasted it. Yeah, I want to try the towards the end of two point oh and the like the two point two five like era where we were using new rules before it was official. I was playing a three a wing list with Luke. They all had rockets and Luke had proton torpedoes. I remember that. And I just remember the synergy and fun of flying Shara Bay.
00:27:35
Speaker
in Jake Feral together or Feral, however you say him, because the synergies of Shara being able to have a double modded rocket because of Jake's ability. The fact that Shara is cheaper. I'm excited to play her. Jan Orrs is going to be a really interesting addition to people's rebel lists. Very scary being able to roll additional attack dice every every round. Just pick a ship if as long as they're in her arc.
00:27:56
Speaker
gain a stress and boom, there's an extra attack die for you. For scum, Boba fed at eight is is something that I know for three and two points I was experimenting with and it was cool to see that carry over um to XWA. I ah love playing Boba. When I played a lot of scum, I played a lot of Boba. Guri being a lot cheaper at five points. Those are, those to name a few, are the ones that I'm really excited to try.
00:28:20
Speaker
I mean, it's going to be fun. one It's going to be fun seeing Star Vipers again. It's going to be fun seeing fire sprays on the table. It's funny to hear you say that because people used to hate them so much. But you besides Django and maybe Xam, like rarely Django Xam, like you didn't see fire sprays really anymore.
00:28:36
Speaker
I used to just hate them in 2.0. Yeah. Yeah. I yeah think it was a lot of pricing issues. Yeah. Yeah. Well, points fortressing in 2.0 is a huge thing. And with fire sprays, you know, hundred hundred and eighteen point Jago or in Boba, you know, those are those are things that existed. It's hilarious.
00:28:52
Speaker
um So what kind of discourse are you guys seeing? Because I'm the PR lead for the x Xwing Alliance. So my brain is I more than I care to admit it all over the Internet when it comes to the conversation about Xwing and about these points.
Feedback and Adaptation Challenges
00:29:07
Speaker
What are you guys noticing being a fly on the wall, being a part of the conversation and different discourse in your own communities about these points so far? And definitely be honest. You know, I think it's important to have an honest and open discourse about this.
00:29:20
Speaker
I mainly see things fall into three camps. The first and largest is just excitement. People are happy. They, they're very excited just to have new points. They're excited.
00:29:35
Speaker
with what they can build. They're excited that the power level isn't just all super hyper alpha strike. And that's the largest one that's I would say greater than 75% is what I see. And then probably the next biggest one are people that Nick you were talking about where they're just like, Oh, my, my standard loadout Breena Braylon and Gina, you know, it's like I can't take them anymore. and It's like I you probably can I they're expensive But if the entire power level is pulled down 10% their their minor cost will you know increase Makes them still powerful because yeah, everything else has been brought down with it, you know, so I I'm curious if people just 100% abandon, but yeah, it's a lot of oh I can't bring my
00:30:26
Speaker
my one pilot my my Han with Perko and Bistan and decrying it before they've tried anything. and yeah which i What I like is a lot of the responses to them that I see is, hey, you know play the game. you know it's just ah Don't just theory craft. you know Get out on on the board. Try it. See if you see if there is if it is still viable. See if you can find something that you do like.
00:30:51
Speaker
and So I heard something said one time and the cure for negativity is not positivity. It's warmth. So just being positive towards somebody that's having a negative experience is not what's going to make them not be negative. It's it's it's the warmth of just like, hey, you know, be the friend there, so to speak, you know, as best you can over the Internet. It's like, hey, you know, let's let's play a game. Let's, you know, try it out. See if you like it. Yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's important not to repeat the same mistakes that specific people made. Yes. A couple of years ago, saying if you don't like it, leave. Yeah, we are not. That is not the playbook. They that was messed up that they did that. And we are going to not. We don't believe in revenge. We're just going to be like, hey, let's try this. um That is an important response to be kind or if you're frustrated to just not engage.
00:31:42
Speaker
Yeah, if that's really if you're tempted to tell someone to screw off, don't it just and take a step away. It's a bad look to be to be saying stuff like that. um Yeah. And also, I mean, like, yeah, you just acknowledge that, yeah, like some people have lost an aspect that they enjoy of the game, but showing them that there's something new to look forward to as well. Well, and another response to that is, hey, yeah, maybe this is bad. This is beta points.
00:32:09
Speaker
You know, and that's another thing that I've been you know seen plenty of people throw out is like, Hey, this is beta points work testing. You know, this is, right yeah I'm fairly certain within the next week, the the play test form will be there.
00:32:23
Speaker
You can try it. And if if you're like, hey, this has been ruined, it actually isn't good. You know, throw it in there. yeah But yeah and then that can be addressed with the. Sorry, sorry. Not just, I think, an interesting point to bring up with this is that in 2022, Adepticon, that was an open beta of points like the way it was treated by atomic mass games are like we change the game. We want the data like they ask people to fill out information on their games like that. Yeah, we've done that before, and I i think most people will agree with me. This is my take for the day. That version of X-wing was pound over a hand over fist worse than what we have now with the beta points for XWA. That was oh yeah rough when it opened up or when it first started. Yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
Exactly. Well, it was it was it was truly almost ah it almost felt more like an alpha than a beta. But, you know, that that's semantics. But we've done it before. We've learned a lot from that. And so we, you know, we can do it again with the knowledge that we've gained from that experience. Yeah. As players, you know, and test. yeah Yeah. I mean, I will say right now, this point feels a lot healthier than, you know, than where we were at the start of two point five. but Sure. Yeah.
00:33:36
Speaker
ah And I think the community is reacting healthier as well. Yes. A thousand percent. But to get back to my my three reactions, the first one was poit positivity. The second one was the knee jerk. I can't build my list anymore. And then the third is XWA didn't go far enough. Folks that are like and like me, where I do prefer 2.0, but I I'm not pressing XWA to be 2.0. 2.5 is 2.5. I'm not trying to make it 2.0. And just folks, you're like, and maybe 200 points is a thing somewhere down the line. Judging by the ah the stage that Ali had with UNIC last week, it doesn't sound like it's lent leading that way, 200 points. you know But maybe, I mean, there's still a lot of testing in between now and... March, April, next year. but you know If I want a betting man, I would think it will change, honestly. My hope is for 40 points. that's i'm I'm a 40-point stan, but who knows? you know it's it's ah i'm I'm not on the points testing team, on the play testing team. so ah I think a lot of those comments are more of just like, I don't care for 2.5, you need to
00:34:47
Speaker
make it more 2.0, which, you know, i I understand the sentiment because, like I said, I prefer to prefer 2.0, but make 2.5 the best 2.5 that you can. i know yeah I mean, you know, legacy does exist and is really well supported. Their points updates have been great, too. So that's there. Yeah, it's it's available to play. And I do. I'm trying to find a YouTube comment I thought was interesting.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, i'd like I'm just going to reiterate everything that that Matt said is what I've been seeing too. Overwhelming excitement for most people. i yeah I'd say probably like 75% of the posts that I see where our people are genuinely excited and talking about like list building and are are thrilled with like kind of the direction that it's going. And then you know there's i 20% that i are like upset that they they can't play their you know ah their archetype that that they liked or their list doesn't work as well anymore. um But even some of those people are, are you know even though they're bummed they can't do their like play their thing, that they're um they're still excited for other things. And I'd say that that group also might
00:36:02
Speaker
ah include people who they they say that they don't they don't like dislike the directions going where they just have concerns with this i group of points that have come out. um And then yeah, maybe there's like 5% that I'm seeing that they're like, Oh, they should just um have scrapped the the point building design completely or that they didn't go far enough on either nerfing or buffing certain ships and pilots. Yeah, yeah i I actually can't. I can't find the comment anymore. I think the poster removed it, but basically they they had they're like, I'm going to be honest.
00:36:37
Speaker
the sentiment of the message, the comment was essentially, I'm going to be honest, I'm not really, you know, I I'm confused as to why you did this and and why you didn't do this. And, you know, I'm going to I'm going to give it a shot. um And I appreciate everything you guys are doing.
00:36:52
Speaker
um with the X-Wing Alliance. But if I don't get to play basically if I don't want I don't get to play the way I like to play with my favorite pilots, I'm probably just going to quit. And that was the that basically the the post. It was pretty long. And I was like, hey, um you know, this is a beta points. I don't think it's necessarily fair to threaten to quit just based on reading the points document. I would suggest that you give it a shot still playing your favorite pilots.
00:37:19
Speaker
and be patient because changes will be made that are in the best interest of balancing the game. But essentially the people who have the ultimatum approach where they're like, man, if they don't give me Bistan back on hot, I'm quit. Yeah, um stuff like that. And i I find that to be the worst faith type of of I don't even know if you call it criticism, conversation, talking point, whatever you want to call it.
00:37:42
Speaker
It's it's just so rooted in heavy bias. It's it's a nonstarter to to approach a conversation with that. You're not having a conversation, right? Yeah. And luckily that's been pretty rare. ah Well, you don't see what I see, but it's there's more people than you would think. OK, being the PR lead for sure. um But it's not ah it's not a problem. It's not like I'm like, man, this is but there are I mean, Matt, you see it in the NCX Discord, for example, there there are a few people who are who are talking that way. There are a couple of people here, a couple of people there. Total, it's a couple dozen maybe that I see the most talking the most, but it's it's there. um
00:38:21
Speaker
You know, the people are they're so set in their way of playing. um And my opinion is if you if you only can enjoy a game or have success in a game by playing the same exact thing every single time, you need to learn to adapt because it's you're going to be disappointed if you are not willing to to let something that has too high a power level get balanced.
00:38:45
Speaker
you know, to let that go and try something else. Like you will enjoy the game more if you're willing to adapt because I think that's a cool challenge playing a competitive game like X-wing is like, OK, I can't play this anymore. What do I do instead? Or how can I make this still good? Like that challenge, it's like challenge accepted. I'm going to build a list that still performs with the things I like to do. My type of play style. Yeah. You know.
00:39:08
Speaker
Well, yeah, or like for all the people who are, you know, saying that, Oh, it's going to be too busted. If you can take a three defenders and a, uh, in a tie fighter, I'm like, great. If you think it's that busted, then you should build that list and play it. but Yeah. yeah and show Show the world how busted it is. Yeah. And just ah to throw it out there, you could fly three defenders in the AMG points. Yeah, that's true. I flew a 2.5 tournament. It was like two weeks ago. I flew Jenden, Jor, and Colonel Vessary, and I won the tournament. So it's it's doable.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah, well i was I was. No, I was going to say, I mean, but they weren't I ones like. Yeah, it's like. it was like and Yeah. And now these are just I ones and you'll get a what an I one or an I fighter. So yeah, it's ah they you can fly them, but the the power level is much lower than it is in the AMG one. So they're not. I don't think they're worrisome there. There's some worries that I have. But again, it's beta points. ah Yeah, I mean, exactly.
00:40:14
Speaker
What's one worry that you have, Matt? I've seen a five whisper list or or a five phantom list rather get thrown out there. Is that? Yeah, I'm not worried about a five phantom list. ah the The big problem with phantoms was juke and the five. If you take five phantoms, you can't take juke ah because those are the ones that don't have a talent slot. ah But i I do worry about.
00:40:38
Speaker
There are some super cheap pieces in CIS, ah the bactoid prototype. They're five health for two points I played. Again, this is sample size of one. So it is a a minor minor concern at this point, but we played salvage. They the two bactoids, they picked up objectives and then they just flew away and their five health. And all they got to do is soak ah is soak up two turns and they've earned their points. And then I it didn't feel worth it to shoot at them because
00:41:15
Speaker
You'd only get two points, but you have to kind of shoot at them because they're they're holding objectives. so that But it's it's just minor stuff. and I think that might be you know an edge case there and maybe they're not going to be annoying. I don't know. But that's that's one worry. And then I had another concern. I don't have it off the top of my head. but Yeah, that's the one that sticks out in my brain, but it could be, again, could just be a one-off scenario. Maybe they they stink in every other scenario that you play them in. It's just salvage that they're good. Does anybody else see any other concerns? Andrew, what have you noticed? Anything that you might be concerned with?
00:41:56
Speaker
Yeah, I was gonna say, um I haven't found anything that I'm, i mean it's good i there's some things that, I don't know if I'm concerned, but they're just, it's interesting. um you know I think bringing like intimidation back, but having like a bunch of caveats with it is is interesting. like That could be something that like has the potential to be, that could be pretty crazy. I guess the only concern Yeah, um I got nothing off the top of my head that like that I've even seen her play tested that has been like and my very limited What ah five days with these new points that like that that's really really jumping out at me
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah, I would I would think um steal so. I really think it's interesting with stealth device being a medium to large base only. I think that the biggest winner of that is is the Mandalorian, the potential for him to mitigate damage and just and just be impossible to kill for like three or four engagements. I bless your Matt Carey and you blank out the first engage. yeah That was.
00:43:03
Speaker
There was a two die shot that came at the Mandalorian and I rolled four dice and rolled ah ah three blanks and an eyeball. And I wasn't in two arcs at that moment. So I lost my self device. Oh my gosh. But again, that could be an edge case. Maybe maybe or maybe it's the norm. Who knows? I mean, i that's one of the reasons.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah, but but sorry. I was going to say, no, that was one of the reasons, like one of the reasons why I wanted to fly the Mandalorian is that it honestly, it got the bump that I thought it deserved. um I thought it was interesting that when they released the Razor Crest that the Mandalorian was like the week, one of the weakest pilots i in the set. Yeah. And it's like, cool, we got this awesome TV show, so let's make this guy terrible. Q9 the better the better Yeah, so like I feel like this is the treatment that the Mandalorian should have got like I think yeah for like That's one of the ships that has gotten a massive boost in this ah in this new points update no and But he also got quote-unquote nerfed, right?
Mandalorian's Role and Game Balance
00:44:05
Speaker
So it's like it's that's why there's no when something goes up. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a total nerf It means there's and ah it's it's like ah
00:44:12
Speaker
There's an adjustment. It's really just an adjustment. Oh, for sure. Actually, when it comes to what he can take the tools, I still think it's really difficult to have a lot of success with the platform of the razor crest because of his style. But i I love that he has more survivability. um If you're going to take a chip like that, that has the worst blue maneuvers.
00:44:32
Speaker
of of a medium base. I mean, I that I think you should you should be able to try to keep them alive. It feels thematic. Like you said, Andrew, it's it's ironic how when he first came out, he was seven points with like just like a weird amount of loadout. It was like, yeah, he must be nine. And it was like five. yeah Yeah. Like he could he could barely take the child. Yeah. And I think in the points update that he couldn't anymore.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, I'm not worried about these things, but I am curious how things like informant sense, Talmarix. Yeah. And then also like, this so that's all the, peak you know, all the peaking stuff. I don't think that's going to be a problem, but.
00:45:14
Speaker
I am really open to being wrong. You know, I don't think that X-wing is a little more jousty than it was in 2.0. So you kind of know where people are going. ah They're coming there to bash your face in and pick up some objectives. so blocks Blocks don't restrict people's actions anymore. yeah you know there's Yeah, it definitely was is was abused. I mean, as much as it could be in two point oh, but now that things have shifted the target or when conditions have changed. Yeah, I don't expect it to be a big deal, but it could probably still turn a game. Yeah. And then same thing with dial changing. I don't think that they're going to be big. I think the the worst offender could be season navigator on fire sprays, but.
00:46:01
Speaker
ah i don't um i don't think that it again i think I don't think it's going to be as impactful as some people worry, but again, very open to being wrong. I'm looking forward to parsing through the playtest logs once people start shoveling them our way.
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah, speaking of there, we are. I am working with ah the play test lead, Daniel Lim, a.k.a. Isofane. He was just elected ah almost a week ago um and he brought Matt on and um I know Dom ah Flanagan was brought on and I think a few others as well. I'm not sure that's still kind of being rounded out, but there will be a form. We will make an announcement yeah about your play test feedback and submissions. um The main caveat that I kind of want to tease now is that people where we're not looking to suggest fixes, we're looking to talk address problems um and how we can solve them. So the best way to do that is to just give us your feedback on how games are going, what you're noticing without being like, this is too good. This is too bad. This is broken. This you need to make Luke four points or whatever, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. And we're not doing it's not helpful for us.
00:47:12
Speaker
To my understanding, that's how ah FFG and AMG's feedback forms were. It was, hey, does this feel like the game was too swingy? Does it you know does it over favor one person? It's not, hey, do this to fix this. It's just say, is it a problem? you know And how is it a problem? Or is this good? How is it good? you know Just that kind of feedback. and i Um, and just trust the, the, the dev teams, you know, which, I mean, you're going to, you have two world champions. You got Ali and, uh, Paul Hever. I feel like with the, the kind of brain power you have there.
00:47:51
Speaker
They're they have the best interest of every chassis and pilot and upgrade in mind. They want it to be viable and they will make the changes to to make it viable without making it oppressive. What are what are your guys' thoughts on going back to points really quick? The philosophy um initially with what AMG adopted, which was making titles free for the ships that had access to the title, it was free versus now in XWA beta points land them having a cost. Fantastic.
00:48:19
Speaker
I'm I think the ones that are costed are are on the money.
Cost Assignments for Balance
00:48:24
Speaker
I think it was a it's that it's a lever that you can pull to control the power level for sure. Same thing. The only other one that I can think of, too, is like the the having the slave one title be extremely expensive, especially if you're going to to lower Boba Fett to eight. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, soulless one, for example, General Grievous is I think nine points. He is like 11 or 12 loadout.
00:48:47
Speaker
um for four points instead of five. and I mean, obviously not all titles are created as the phantom title, which, you know, allows you to dock. And then there's Solace one that gives you reroll into extra hole. And then both being the same price at zero, I was always like, huh, that's weird. But yeah okay it's making interesting decisions. um And I liked it for the Lambda, having the the title be three points like um with Jed and I had to choose between. Do I take the title or do I take maybe a crew member that can um give me something better. And and you can now build like those ships or Lambda in different styles and and configurations for what your game plan's gonna be. yeah
00:49:26
Speaker
And you don't feel so hypothetical taking two lambdas. You feel like though in ah AMG ag points, you feel like they assumed that the title would be on the lambda. you know So the the points are figured with that in mind. But if you're taking two, well then You have two ships that are working with that assumption and only one of them actually gets the title. In this in this version, it's not every title as we've discussed, but at least for that one, that is ah built in with the consideration. you know So who is it? Lieutenant Tsai is four points, I think is a steal, but all they have is enough points to take the title or a cheap crew basically. so yeah
00:50:15
Speaker
That's that's your choices. Whereas the other ones get more points, but they get the title and stuff. Yeah. So and if you take two for some reason, you can make the decision. look Some people really love lambdas. Yeah. We fell into this world where you just stapled things into your list because it was like there was no thought behind it. You just got to end.
00:50:36
Speaker
is just yeah philosophically, I can understand the principle of doing it like, the but I just it was a drawback to this building to just be like, you know, hey, you have this loadout, you have this um up, you have this title that is essentially an upgrade that lets you do more things. And in some cases, let's see, do a lot more things.
00:50:57
Speaker
But it's free. So don't worry about it. It doesn't count towards your loadout. Just have it on there. And then you'd have cases where people would like. I mean, this isn't actually a problem, but I just find it funny that sometimes people spot a list in for a stream game or something and they'll forget to put Special Forces Gunner or yeah I know that's a gunner, but or ah one of their titles on that's free. But just because it's just like.
00:51:18
Speaker
It should basically be defaulted to on there at all times because it's free, but it wouldn't. And it's just like, hey, like you should have to make a choice, like a decision. Yeah. And being able to use it that it matters. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, i I think I understood like like AMG did that because they were looking at it more thematically that, you know, that ships with with titles like, you know, Moldy Crow used to cost 13 points in 2.0.
00:51:46
Speaker
um where you know it felt weird if you were flying an iconic pilot that had you know that title and then you weren't able to take it. um being able to being able to take it, like having access to being able to buy it, I still think is thematic enough. But I see I know what you mean. Yeah. Right. I know. it I mean, and it's and not like they were 100 percent on that as well, because like dirge could take the Xanadu blood title. even Right. Yeah. It wasn't hit. You know, so it's like I. And when they when they were hitting on it, when they they said, well, this is why you can have it because of law reasons, it's like, OK, that makes sense. But then when they did the the caveats and corollaries where it's like, oh, well,
00:52:27
Speaker
They can have the title Durgent Durgent CIS can have the title, but Durgent and scum cannot. and It's like, what in the world is going on here? So, I don't know. But it multi-crows zero. So like Jan gets to take it looks like. yeah Yep. And that's interesting because that's good. Yeah, I was going to say the one thing that I dislike about that, while all of them can take it, I worry because of what I was saying with psi in the lambdas.
00:52:54
Speaker
they, you know, they're built into the cost. So you're like, Oh, well, then they can take this, you
X-Wing Alliance's Ambitions
00:53:00
Speaker
know, now I don't feel like you can take two Hawks because they have that, ah you know, I can't take, uh, Canaan and to Pusk, you know, because to Pusk once the Crow title because of how much he costs and so does Canaan, you know, and one of them will be severely underpowered for five points or whatever, whatever the points are.
00:53:20
Speaker
little fuzzy on that, but you know it's it's there are drawbacks to that, and maybe that's something that can be addressed, I don't know. Or maybe it's fine how it is. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. I got caught up in this building. the school Wow. All right. Yeah, just distracted already. But yeah, I mean i think that yeah that's just going to be something that we're all going to smooth out as time goes on. Yeah.
00:53:40
Speaker
I agree. Yeah, there's the i I think the way I like to define the official support for the game up to the point when they announced that, you know, we're walking away is that a lot of interesting design spaces implemented, but half baked and not optimized and explored enough just because of time.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, and resources for sure. Yeah, two months it's cool to dive deeper into that and try to refine the things that they've inserted because there is a lot in two point five. that I think is really interesting. Think loadout when done the right way is is really unique. But the way it was implemented was kind of half baked.
00:54:13
Speaker
And they they they made it better. It was like it's like you open the door and you take one step out the door. You're not at your destination still, but you've taken a step in that direction. I feel like they took that big step and then we're like, OK, I'm tired. I'm going to take a seat. Like, she's like all right, I'll i'll keep going.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the best ships that could have taken advantage of the the loadout system were the things like the Star Wing or the Punisher or the Star Fortress, things that you couldn't make too cheap in two point oh, because they would just be spam. Yeah. In two point five, they never and they didn't get the load out that they could have that would have made them viable. It's like, but this is this this system would work specifically really well for we'll say major vendor who is like, you know, you can make them five, six points, but just give them, you know, 30 loadout. You're just, that's a, you know, just a number of throwing out, but, you know, i mean no give them the world.
00:55:09
Speaker
ah One of the examples is the decimator. the i When I flew the the decimator in 2.0 every time, you would put it in the list and then you would strip it for parts. You would you would put absolutely nothing on it um because it was just so expensive, just the chassis itself. And then also you just wanted room for other stuff in the list because it was good enough to do its thing. But decimators never really felt like a big um i am like like a big impending ship like they were.
00:55:38
Speaker
um where they were dangerous, it was more like, no, that's just a damage. So um you haven't played against Matt's. victory Yeah, I was as like, I'm sitting here. No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean the the the not the defender, the ah V.T.
00:55:54
Speaker
No, i I'm saying you you haven't played against that's a Vader defender and rack rear admiral cheer dude. Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. days Is it like 120 points? eciator yeah But I will say like in two point five, they they went when you do have that a separate loadout system, it makes these like i the one thing I thought that they really crushed was that it made Luke feel like Luke. It made, i you know, like these decimators feel like really big powerful ships, because in 2.0, that list building, the pilot abilities were so good, you didn't need to put other cool stuff on them. Yeah, you put it on the title. Exactly. But now, when you have loadout and points separate,
00:56:44
Speaker
ah that you can make these like really cool ships become even cooler by actually getting to add stuff to them. And how about generics just being something you can actually look at again? Generics are are. Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed with the new points was that generics feel relevant again. They figured it out.
00:57:01
Speaker
Yeah, they they I always thought, you know, again, we saw what they were trying to do, just like, hey, Star Wars named named pilots named abilities. You know, they were seeing it as like Star Wars is about the characters it about it's about the world of of these these characters from all these shows and movies that comics, books, everything that we love from this universe. And let's focus on the main cast.
00:57:25
Speaker
And in in my head, I've always looked at X-wing is like, well, a squadron has like a squadron lead, but then you have like green squadron, you know, veteran or whatever. I'm making up names, but like you have people who aren't main characters in all of these shows.
00:57:40
Speaker
and comics and books and everything who are important parts of the squad. They just might have a name. You know, um it's nice thematically. I always wanted it to be more like that, to have a place for the aces and the name pilots and the generics. Yeah. And taking a step in that direction is also good for the game, because it turns out a lot of people love generics and X-wing a lot. i was Yeah, I was never a generic flyer. I would at most typically have like one in my list, but there was plenty of people that really enjoyed flying generics and taking that away from them. I think that was another point where you just lost people on the switch. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was like generics and like like like the RPG aspect where, you know, this no name pilot would, you know, could could be somebody in this list. And then, you know, you got the feeling of like they're punching above their weight, which was cool.
00:58:30
Speaker
Um, on the other hand, like I, I'm, I was kind of excited. I felt like I'd spent a lot more time in 2.5, like playing new ships that I never would have played before ever. Um, you know, cause there's so many named pilots in this game that I've never seen on the table across from me or played myself. Like, I don't think I've ever played against or played with half tober, uh, in the U wing. Um, yeah you know, I've never, I,
00:58:59
Speaker
barely see a seventh sister like around anymore. Zurtik Strahm had their day in the sun ah when he's two point five first launched and then. Oh, yeah. Three points or so. Yeah. Two point night beast. Yeah. I like i'm I'm interested in seeing like Gavin Sykes in the end one and Dene Hamburger.
00:59:25
Speaker
Who in the end one? Oh, it's today Elburger, but I call her Danae hamburger. I know it's Gavin. sein Like they're they're two different and one pilots that you just don't see, you know. Yeah, because they were they were I think they're both I three and ah you couldn't survive in the meta at I three for the most part. You know, there's probably exceptions, but let's get Koshka Frost out on the field dinner. Yeah, is she? is hasky used to be a big 2.0. Yeah. Yeah. The feature. Yeah. So, yeah, I a lot of excitement. Yeah. it Yeah. A lot. It's just it just feels like a new game and seeing the amount of the the amount of people that have joined all of the discords who have joined ours.
Community Growth and System Changes
01:00:10
Speaker
We we have like I was just looking a moment ago. We have like 500 or so people.
01:00:15
Speaker
in our discord and gosh, six months ago, I think we had like maybe 250 almost 300. Wow. ah And a part of that, obviously, is because we did free one two points. But the act the the activity, the people looking for games just conversing our discord was never known as being the place to go to be a part of the X-Wing conversation. Like we had a decent discord. We have a decent discord, but it was relatively quiet. And now it's just to see life and all parts of it is, it's awesome. And this is just good for all. Yeah. I mean, honestly, we were all just starved for just new content for so long. Like this is the just honestly, I think what it is is that this is the first time that people have hope and that the first time that people have just seen something happen. And it's exciting. Any anything else but but before we kind of move into the last topic of the cast?
01:01:09
Speaker
Yeah, um, I guess I do have one thing some of the discourse I'm seeing is that you know Why are we sticking like like some people are bummed that we're sticking with like the 20-point system?
01:01:21
Speaker
and the ship i values and the loadout values being like the same. i My personal feeling is that I think that was a good move. There are so many new players that did come in on 2.5. This is the only yeah point system they know. And I think instead of trying to blow everything up i from the beginning, that like working within the framework, figuring out what works, what doesn't before, moving on to something next, if if they decide that that's like worth it,
01:01:48
Speaker
is I think that that's the right approach and I'm just it's so nice to have like stewards of this game I think make some thoughtful good decisions. It's it's it's at least a short-term approach I mean, we're not gonna blow anything up exactly um for now, but you know ah One thing that I can definitely promise two things actually is that SLs are not going anywhere if anything we're gonna make more of them So they will be a part of the game. We're sure OK, so that's big. The other thing is that we will not be abandoning scenarios in any way. So two point five, if you want to define it as, you know, scenario play X wing with list building that um utilizes, ah you know, 2040 list building structure, 100, whatever we decide to go with.
01:02:33
Speaker
We will stay with that long term. That is what yeah we will do. I don't know what the points I would be surprised if we stayed at 20 points. That's my personal opinion. I don't have like I'm not leaking anything when I say that we haven't really dove deep enough into that conversation. But if we want to see more pilots get priced more fairly to allow more of them to get played.
01:02:54
Speaker
It will not be with 20 points. It would have to be with a different yeah structure. I just have more minutia. Yeah, I definitely see, you know, I feel like there's a lot more viable pilots, but there's still a lot of them where it's like. ah Like ah Nick, you mentioned who is it backstabber and mauler mithil from battle of Endor boys. Yeah, they got like a little nerf to both at four points is too much, but lower one of them this feels weird because they're kind of the same. But if you look at both of them, they're because like oh one of them
01:03:32
Speaker
definitely isn't worth four points. They are only good as a pair at seven points. So if you could somehow slice that down the center and make it three point five points, then there's still. Well, I mean, there's still not that good without Vader either because like they kind of need Vader for the extra insurance. If one of them dies, they don't even get the extra attack die. I mean, I will say for me, take a look at it like Republic and Scum are just The two factions that are just inherently hard to balance on their own because it's like 20 points is maybe so low where like one point lower in one direction can be the difference between making something, you know, OP and unplayable. So I think adding maybe a little more minutia there in the future might, might also.
01:04:18
Speaker
um I'm also excited that scenario. I mean, I love the scenarios i I'm excited for the prospect of new scenarios to coming in and our scenario die is that a good run? It's not a good run. that Well, I mean, I think I don't think the four that we have now are going to go away. I think you just add some new.
01:04:34
Speaker
Some new stuff to it, but we'll see this probably gonna be a rotation I think is we won't get rid of anything, but there might be a rotation it like us We'll go see at the end of the day. Honestly. I'm just kind of I'm filled with hope and and It's gonna be awesome to see like the direction that x-wing will take now Yeah. And so that's a
X-Wing Event and Community Trust
01:04:55
Speaker
good segue. So the XWA's main, its mission statement, it's its big goal is to host the largest X-wing event by 2030, which is not, you know, several years from now. Do you think?
01:05:09
Speaker
this is possible with a community led effort. And what do you think some of the pitfalls would be that would kind of interfere with accomplishing a goal like that? I think your big the biggest thing is like world's 2019 was was huge. It was I want to say I want to say 600 plus people. And then I know there were some yeah UK events that were 600 plus people. ah So just just saying that the by the bar is high to start. But it is yeah, I think that's the the first the first hurdle. But um I think it's possible. I think it's more possible now than it was under AMG. Aside from worlds, the large tournaments were trending downward.
01:05:54
Speaker
I hope that once XWA points tournaments start happening, that starts trending back upward. And you got six years. You know, 2030 is six years away. Yeah. What do you think? What do you think some ah what would be something that would cause that?
01:06:12
Speaker
not to happen to what would get in the way of the community, a community led effort to keep the game alive by 2030. Matt, what would what would you think would be a big obstacle? i'll Both you guys. But obviously, if cooper you got something, go ahead. Oh, no. I mean, um yeah, I was going to say, I mean, for me, the one thing that stands out is in the future, lack of ba availability of product that that would prevent new play could prevent new players from getting. And I think that you will need some injection of ah new players to reach that. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I mean, but we're not suggesting or saying that people go out and do that. But from a tournament perspective, you know, it might not be OK to do that. Yeah, I i think XWA will dirt certainly allow path once we once AMG is done. that That is the only way to sustain a growing game is to. Yeah, but like proxy and a Depticon might. not
01:07:07
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, well, we would but we would be the T.O. as we would decide if it's allowed or not. Yeah, fair enough. So, yeah, it would be fun. Yeah. At that point, ah the XWA or whoever, you know, just the community in general will just have to be like, hey, here's the best people to get the little cardboard tokens from. Here's the best people to get dials from. Here's the best people to get. um ah mo You know, like an STL or have somebody print it for you. Yeah.
01:07:38
Speaker
And just do that. And then should, so, uh, something that's not a hurdle, but something that could potentially encourage growth is should the, the, the community release, you know, Mando's end one or something like that. And, or, uh, the night buzzard.
01:08:00
Speaker
you know, just a new ship, maybe that will do it. I don't i don't know. that I know that's a whole can of worms in itself, but new product, new SLs, new just pilots in general will well be helpful for encouraging growth. Yeah. I i would say, this is me. So ah I think that that goal is very ambitious. um Yes.
01:08:27
Speaker
I I don't I don't believe we it will be the I don't I think the goal really to show the success of this effort is to to host a X wing event that features people from all around the world that has several hundred people, two, three, four hundred people.
01:08:46
Speaker
the largest ever when the game doesn't have product anymore, that's a easily, you know, available. And that's just a natural barrier that we will not be able to remove. Yeah. Yeah. if you I mean, if if you could get the largest worlds like current largest worlds was twenty nineteen ah four hundred and fifteen people, I think. So that was two point oh twenty twenty four last year. This year, rather last worlds was three hundred and eleven people.
01:09:15
Speaker
So I think it's possible. ah And I guess ah ah another hurdle you're you're asking about is having folks direct new players to XWA.
01:09:28
Speaker
Because, you know, ah I know one of the problems with with new product ah during the two point five days under AMG was until those starter kits came out, all of the stuff still said second edition. You know, like if you bought a star, a.
01:09:47
Speaker
You know, and two tight two ties in the next wing kit. It still was the old that the two point ovals. So you're having some some mixed signals, you know, cross wires. Yeah. ah Yeah, I would. I would say, oh, go ahead, Andrew. Oh, I was going to say, I mean, luckily, though, I think that even AMG pointed people towards Yasby, but they're not going to still know what XWA is. Yeah, I don't think they did that, but.
01:10:16
Speaker
No, I don't know. It's big it's legal. Lucasfilm limited. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But. I would say one of the biggest pitfalls of this effort, what what one of them could be, is would be the political side of the organizing effort and the leadership of the X-Wing Alliance and people just, you know, setting their ego aside and ah working together and in getting along. um I think that's ultimately going to be what makes or breaks the X-Wing Alliance and it's just it's long term credibility of
01:10:51
Speaker
kind of being the steward, which right now we're doing everything we can to earn the the respect and the trust of the community, but we have to earn it because we are new. And it's a brand, it's it's just something that people haven't experienced with X-wing before. But um I think we're doing a really good job of making that progress. And I just want to make sure, I think we just have to kind of stay the course.
01:11:16
Speaker
And if we do that, if we we make sure that we don't have one person run away with the game to make the version of the game, they want it to be. And we have a group effort with checks and balances that stay in place as we have established them to be.
01:11:31
Speaker
that I think we are set up for success. Yeah. And I think that's to pull the curtain back a little bit with the the week that I've been in XWA. It's not a monolith behind, you know, behind the scenes. ah Not everybody, because i um I saw a couple of criticisms where like,
01:11:50
Speaker
ah they're trying to make it 2.0 again and it's just like I we can't just show everybody behind the you know what what's going on but it's it's not a monolith not ever if there's discussions that happen there's people that you know like certain things about xwing people likes other certain things about xwing and it's a It's a group effort, and I think just know that the XWA has the community in its mind and wants to serve the community as best it can. No, that's a great way to end if any any any of you guys have anything else. I do not. I concur. No, I'm excited to see everybody on the table. Yes, list building. Let's do it.
01:12:32
Speaker
Send us your lists. Yes. Thank you to the XWA and their points team for breathing new life into the world of X-Wing. This is a time to be really excited to be building new lists, to be getting more games in and just ah to keep the community led effort of X-Wing going.
Sponsors, Socials, and Farewell
01:12:49
Speaker
This episode is brought to you by once again, Strata Strike. You can go to their Etsy page and buy so many amazing gaming components, including X-Wing components like wood carved template trays, templates, tokens and more. You can use coupon code 312 Squadron. It's 312 capital S, lowercase Q-U-A-D-R-O-N for 15 percent off your entire purchase. Store wide. Be sure to follow us on Twitch to catch us live.
01:13:16
Speaker
Check us out on YouTube and subscribe if you want the edited replay content. You can watch it there. Like us on Facebook and jump into our Discord server to chat with the XWA folks and ourselves and all of the great players, the X-Wing community. And thank you finally to our patrons for making this possible and supporting us in the most generous way that they do. My name is Nick Sperry. And I'm Andrew Cuba. I'm Matt Carey. And thank you for listening.
01:13:46
Speaker
See you all later. Have a good night, guys.