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Puzzles we hate
185 Plays1 month ago
Ben & Jess TAKE DOWN the WORST puzzles of them all... i hope you're not holding onto a bar, because no bars shall be held.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
Recommended
Transcript
The Comedic Theme Song
00:00:43
Speaker
So there's something really important here. There's something really important about this, ah how which is that I don't know if the listeners understand the joy that is derived from like letting it run longer because this is a thing where again this is not a video podcast but we have our cameras on to see each other and to help you know create some better chemistry here and so and we're like the theme is playing live on the tape yeah we have the band right here yeah we have the full band
00:01:24
Speaker
And so it's like when I let it run long, I'm staring directly at the video of Jess. And we're just both like, it's just like, we're both like kind of cracking each other up.
00:01:39
Speaker
So I just want you to know, like you just might think, oh, it's like, oh Ben, when he was editing it, ah like he just ah ah put it. You know, oh, he just ah let it run little long. He doesn't have, like, a standard copy-paste of the theme.
00:01:54
Speaker
No, this is playing... Like, the audio file is playing live to Jess and I. Mm-hmm. And like... like It is a game of chicken. Yeah, it's great. Like you look at Ben and he has like the most devilish look on his face with like his hand, like poised over the button that will shut it off. And like, as it goes longer and longer, like his mouth is like growing wider with this grin. His eyebrows are arching more and more. and it's just like, he's he's like, yeah, right before my eyes morphing into some sort of theme song demon.
00:02:33
Speaker
Uh, the, yeah, no, it's, uh, and I'm just on, I'm on, uh, you know, uh, pins and needles, you know, I'm just, uh, I'm just waiting to see when he's going to end it all. And, you know, I've got all these great things in my mind, I've got to say, and they're like all slipping away while Ben is just like, just hitting that theme song. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's part of my strategy to make sure that because at the end, at the end of every podcast, uh,
00:03:00
Speaker
um you know, the the listener is is invited to to see who do they think won this podcast. Yes, yes. And and this little filibuster is is part of like, it's a it's a dominance play.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, like Ben is definitely running this whole thing. Like it's some sort of yeah, yeah, there's definitely Dom play going on here at some level. And, you know, I i mean, I'm fine with it. I can send it to all all of it. But, you know, it's Ben is definitely out to win this podcast every single episode.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
Social Media Introductions
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, this is Quest Quest. The Adventure Game Podcast? I'm Ben, PS underscore Garrick on Twitch. And whenever I update it, YouTube too.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm Jess. That's Decaf Jedi on all your favorite video sharing sites, Daily Motion, everywhere.
00:04:03
Speaker
you didn't have any more thought you were gonna say like no just daily motion and all the others like where else do i i mean rumble i'm huge on rumble yeah yeah definitely big on rumble uh bumble uh big over there too you're you're big on rumble you're big on bumble you're big on tumblr you I do a little bit of, uh, lo-fi indie rap. So I'm, ah I'm doing okay. I'm mumbler. Uh, you know, it's, uh, I'm on all of the major, all the major channels.
00:04:37
Speaker
How you doing tonight, Jess?
Food Talk: Dunkin', Edamame, and Hummus
00:04:38
Speaker
I'm doing, uh, you're doing pretty well. Uh-huh. Yeah, i mean, I bought that. I can't, I can't complain. Well, I mean, I'll tell you what I'm running on.
00:04:49
Speaker
I'll tell you what running on, Ben. Duncan, like all of America. All of America. I'm running on Duncan. That's what I, that's what I had for breakfast and lunch and dinner. Uh, just Duncan at every meal. Uh, so like I'm, I'm going strong from all that Duncan, uh, energy. But then right before our podcast, I, uh, I wrecked.
00:05:08
Speaker
a big bowl of edamame and i've got that soybean and salt energy coming into this uh coming into this you got the sb and s sb and s is what they call it eating a ton of edamame feels like it's a dangerous game It can be because it feels like that's the the kind of like snack that like you'll eat meat and eat meat.
00:05:38
Speaker
And it's like this, this kicks ass, this kicks ass, this kicks ass. And then it's like one of those things where like you just kind of feel its presence. Yeah, I mean, there's no amount of edamame that's too much, right?
00:05:51
Speaker
Like, I mean, you just like, can you continue eating it endlessly? But after the fact, there isn't an amount that was too much. You just don't know it as you're eating it. Yeah, it's like, it just, it's a food that will catch up with you. I struggle with hummus in the same way. Like for me, any amount of hummus is the right amount of hummus, but Hummus is a hummus is, is, is tough make counters um because it's a pretty, it's a pretty easy thing to make. Oh yeah.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even out just like the worst canned garbanzo beans in the world, you can make a pretty decent hummus. Like, i know the ah Like, I have made high effort hummus, like where I remove all the skins, and I'm very, like, very delicate with how I measure stuff out, and maybe even...
00:06:43
Speaker
I'll make like some sort of protein, like like a ground beef or like a spiced, like something to put on top and like serve it with really good pita. Or I'll just get...
00:06:55
Speaker
the $1 can of chickpeas and, you know, like drain it and like barely rinse it. And then just like kind of eyeball like tahini and whatever else.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah. And then just be like, nah, good enough. And you want to, this is something I think about because I cook all the time. And like the, the difference between like, uh, like a B, like a B minus to a B plus yeah version of something that takes like 30 to 40 minutes, or even in the case of hummus that takes like 10 minutes, um, or versus like the thing that takes like a ton of effort.
00:07:40
Speaker
What is like that space in there? Like, if it If it's something like it's it's hummus and it takes 15 minutes, 10 minutes ah to make, and then, or like you remove all the skins and do all that. And that takes, let's peg that at like an hour.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah. um And I know that there are ways to speed that up. but I've tried them. I don't care for them. I just remove them. I put on a TV show and I just, you know, I just do that. But like,
00:08:14
Speaker
The difference between like that hummus or or what it's worth to me yes is not enough.
Cultural Perceptions of Food
00:08:26
Speaker
like ah That is just an occasional treat thing and yeah not a do-it-all-the-time thing. It's the same with...
00:08:36
Speaker
I have like a recipe for risotto that takes all day. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Like this all day risotto preparation thing. And it makes the best risotto.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yes. It makes perfect risotto. its But a quickie risotto is still better than 98% of the foods on the planet. Right. Yeah. So risotto that you just dump into an instant pot.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yes. It takes you... 20 minutes of barely any effort is also is like b and so it's just like well do i want to spend my whole fucking day sometimes i want to have the b yeah this is the exact logic that leads me to conclude that my favorite hummus is just taking a can opener to a can chickpeas and just pouring them directly into my mouth i'll make hummus in my stomach Yeah, like and then you just open. Are you like Popeye with a can of chickpeas? Yeah, I mean, I will just eat some chickpeas. I'll sneak a chickpea.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I do feel like we lost something as a society when we moved away from calling them garbanzo beans, though. I still call it. They're still garbanzo beans to me. They've always been chickpeas. See, I think garbanzo bean is such a more charming term.
00:10:00
Speaker
um And don't know. i assume that's Italian or like... i know I have no idea. I've never existed in a... Well, but you want to know what is the thing is that my dad hates chickpeas.
00:10:15
Speaker
What? So... Jazz Fest dad hates chickpeas? Jazz Fest dad... My dad has a lot of like, picky picky food, picky eater things. And so... Yeah. um ah Like...
00:10:27
Speaker
Uh, so they just weren't in the house. Yeah. Like that was like, and also it's like when, you know, when I was a kid, probably when you were a kid, like hummus was not something you could just get at the grocery store. It wasn't like standard accompaniment to the average American meal. If you're going to like Kroger or somewhere like that. Yeah. You're not just going snag some hummus real easy in a lot of America, circa, you know, 1990. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, like it that like hum it it's it's crazy to consider now, but like it was like, you know, if you think about like if you watch like a 90, like an early ninety s sitcom that has like that episode where they go to ah sushi restaurant. Oh, man.
00:11:11
Speaker
I was just thinking the same thing. Like, I'm thinking about, like, the first time I saw Breakfast Club, and there's the scene where Molly Ringwald's character is there in the library, and she gets out, like, her sushi lunch, and everybody's, like, giving her sort of, like, that's so bougie kind of vibes because she's eating sushi when everyone else is, like, brown bagging it, and we're supposed to think she's, like, a spoiled little rich girl.
00:11:31
Speaker
But actually, she has real problems, too. She has real problems, too, Ben. That's
Gaming Nostalgia: Rhythm Games
00:11:35
Speaker
the whole point of the movie. think it is little bougie to have... sushi as your as your I mean as your school lunch but I remember like I don't know watching that as a kid and thinking I wonder if I will ever eat sushi one day i wonder if someday I will see sushi and have an opportunity to eat it and it was like a mere just 15 years later and there I was eating sushi for the first time yeah like your dreams can come true is what the moral of this story is if you just believe believe in yourself
00:12:07
Speaker
You gotta believe, as my hero Parappa the Rapper says. Never played Parappa the Rapper. Was that good? You should. It's really cute. Kick, punch, it's all in your mind. um I mean, the they the guy that ah ah Rodney something did the the art. Dangerfield.
00:12:24
Speaker
Yeah, Rodney Dangerfield. um right the The guy who did Rod... I'm gonna have to look this up. I can't. ah Rodney Parappa...
00:12:36
Speaker
ah Rodney Allen Greenblatt who like i he he made a bunch of um like kind of multimedia games for little kids in the nineties, some of which I play on my stream.
00:12:54
Speaker
um And like, he has such a, cool and distinct style. So it's really like, that's my main appeal ah to Parappa is it's like, I do like Rodney.
00:13:07
Speaker
I like Rodney's fun screen. Yeah. I can't tell you how terrible I am at Parappa the Rapper. Like, I'm not great at rhythm games. i was gonna say that That's like really like throws me more so than most. That one throws me.
00:13:20
Speaker
I'm okay. Guitar hero. I like guitar hero. I like, I like some rhythm games. I'm not great at rhythm games. I'm passable at rhythm games. Yeah. That's why when I came to Chicago, I was like, let's go play DDR. And you're like, i don't know, man.
00:13:34
Speaker
was like, let's just do a big DDR thing at an arcade. And we could do like tandem DDR. And you seemed hesitant. Yeah. I, i with there, there is my favorite arcade in the city does have a, a DDR in it.
00:13:48
Speaker
And I, uh, like, I think I've played it like, like, it just has, that has no appeal to me. um I'm just there.
00:14:00
Speaker
I'm just there for the pinball. Yeah, no, I mean, I think I'm officially too old to play DDR in public as well. Like, I think it would at some level be like a spectacle. Like, people would be like look at that old guy over there playing DDR right now. I think I've passed the expiration date on my ability to publicly play.
00:14:19
Speaker
DDR. the problem i'm not I'm not fishing for you to say, no, Jess, you're as young as Vidal and youre as you ever were. I know. i know what this will look yeah like. I was going to say the the the problem yeah at my arcade is that everybody that goes there, like because it's an arcade for like arcade freaks such as myself.
00:14:38
Speaker
So like the people that go up to the DDR, like you'll have, you know, people that will come in and be like, oh, a DDR. And they'll like drop a coin and be like, no, that was fine. But then you'll just see like the people kind of roll in and kind of like, I, and then like, you know, like yeah then they, they take off and then they're, they're in there like wristbands and stuff and everything. they're in their tank top And they're like, they've got like a sweat band and you're just like,
00:15:05
Speaker
Oh, this is like, this is their night. And then they like do it where they're, they've got both of their hands behind them. They're holding on to like that. yeah like they And, and I'm just like, Oh, like this is, and this is that type of arcade because it's like, you go to this arcade because you're serious to play these arcade games, you know? Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
It upsets me deeply when I see someone who can play DDR and rather than looking like they're just trying to stomp their feet in the place where it says to stomp your feet are somehow actually dancing. Like I can't comprehend what that would be like if you can actually like both hit the marks and turn it into something that looks like a human dance. I just, my my brain and body can't comprehend that.
00:15:50
Speaker
Speaking of comprehension, we have some emails. Well, reading comprehension will come in handy here. Yeah. And by some, I mean one. From our friend Martin.
00:16:04
Speaker
If I mispronounce that, I'm very sorry.
00:16:08
Speaker
Hello!
iPad Gaming in the 2010s
00:16:10
Speaker
I really enjoyed your podcast, Imaginarium, even though you both bounced off the game, which is understandable given it's not really like the same sort of deal the beloved Sierra adventure game of old.
00:16:21
Speaker
I personally did enjoy Imaginarium a lot, but I believe the circumstances of how I played it versus is how you did so different that perhaps sharing our circumstances will give some insights into how you could pot perhaps enjoy the game more yourself, or at least bounce off it less forcefully.
00:16:42
Speaker
So this is interesting. I like this. I like this premise. Yeah. So for myself, I played the game back in 2011. I just purchased an iPad 2 after scoffing at the iPad on release a year earlier.
00:16:57
Speaker
You want know who had release iPad? Who? Grayson. Really? ah Friend of the pod, Grayson? Friend of the pod, Grayson.
00:17:08
Speaker
this if I'm recalling correctly, because I remember like going to his apartment back in 2010 or whatever, and looking at it and being like, I think I like teased him about it relentlessly.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:23
Speaker
What do you need this shit for? You nerd. All right. Well, anyway, it was fun to, you know, it's always fun to remember bullying your friends.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. well anyway it was fun to it's it's always fun to remember bullying
00:17:44
Speaker
I just purchased an iPad 2 after scoffing at the iPad upon release. Quote, it's just a big iPhone. What proof this could this device possibly have? That's pretty what I was saying. Yeah.
00:17:56
Speaker
But then on New Year's Day, I was at a family gathering where I witnessed a small child play spy moose on their iPad. where immediately realized I'd been wrong. child would let me play.
00:18:08
Speaker
had to go out and buy an iPad of my own. Luckily, i had the foresight to realize that Apple would release an updated version enough. Although i couldn't have anticipated how significant this updated iPad would become as it served as one of my main gaming devices for several years.
00:18:25
Speaker
Wow.
00:18:27
Speaker
That's lot of Angry Birds. Well, this is... Okay. So this is actually pretty... So early 2010s was a magical time for iOS gaming. And I'm not going to disagree with this because you know what?
00:18:39
Speaker
This is true. I think I got... an i And it's somewhere around here because didn't throw it away.
00:18:48
Speaker
I think I have an iPad 3. And I had it essentially as a game console that I did like light... iPad shit on. Yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
You mentioned World of Goo, which is another game I played on that iPad. Among many others, such as beloved indie classics, such as FTL, yes. FTL on the iPad,
00:19:11
Speaker
I played that on the iPad too. Interesting. That was enormous fun on the iPad. I also played, me, I played the enhanced edition of Baldur's Gate 1.
00:19:26
Speaker
Oh, wow. Because I was like, when they released it there, i was like, yeah, this makes a lot of sense for a big touchscreen, like that type of RPG. You know what I loved on iPad? That little Civ Revolution.
00:19:39
Speaker
ah That was a good game. They got to go back. Oh, man. Anyway, beloved indie classics such as FTL, Monument Valley, and Kingdom, as well as many Renaissance-era point-and-click adventure games such as Gemini Rue. Good game.
00:19:53
Speaker
Techno Babylon, great game. Shardlight, very good, by our friend Francisco, and Kathy Rain. it's also good I feel like now people are going to read into... the ratings they gave. you want know Brandon's ranking, just look at the adjectives you used there and you should be able qualitatively rank those.
00:20:14
Speaker
There's something incredibly satisfying about playing point-and-click adventure games on a tablet, allowing you to actually point-and-click with your finger. I agree. I don't... I don't think I played any adventure games on my iPad. Did you, Jess?
00:20:30
Speaker
You know, I'm wanting to think... I maybe did some of the free episodes of a few of the Telltale games when those were still an iOS concern. Like, I'm almost certain I played Walking Dead for the first time on iOS.
00:20:45
Speaker
I had the only adventure game I could think. There were there were a couple of little ones, but none of the big ones. But I think the biggest... iOS adventure game that I played on both my iPad and my iPhone was the Infocom package that they made. Activision didn't update to 64-bit, so it's forever lost. And that apocalypse that wiped out most of the classic iOS games. The good news for me on that is if I dig up that iPad 3 and dig up a charger for it,
00:21:24
Speaker
and I care enough to do it, i could probably play that old Infocom thing because I i don't think that ever upgraded to 64. Anyway.
00:21:35
Speaker
There's something incredibly silly. I already said that. ah Another ah element that adds to my enjoyment of Machinarium and must go unmentioned is the portability of the iPad. Allows it to be brought along on trips, notably vacations. This might be an overly European perspective that's hard to grasp for Americans, but i find it's a lot easier to enjoy a finicky puzzle game or on a lounge bed by the pool of a hotel sipping on a cocktail.
00:21:59
Speaker
I could see that, you know, like, and the way the game is chunked up, it feels very mobile friendly, which I was sitting down and playing it straight through. Maybe, you know, solving couple of puzzles here and there and sitting it down and coming back to it and some things like that, especially in the context of like the same way you might take a nice relaxing book on holiday with you. I could see the appeal here. Yeah, I, you know, and I,
00:22:27
Speaker
I also agree with that assessment in that like, because yeah, we both Jess and I played that for this podcast. Which is probably the worst way to play any game.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah. Even though both of us are playing, or at least I'm playing, you already finished it, but the game that we're playing, like next week's episode, I'm playing for the podcast.
00:22:52
Speaker
I'm having a delightful time. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Spoilers on me having a good time playing what we're playing, talking about next week. on a But, you know, like... It's be Space Quest 4. But...
00:23:07
Speaker
I did have that thought and it wasn't, it wasn't said like that machinarium is probably best played as a like kind of pick it up and put it down game and playing it on the iPad specifically, especially because it's like, it's kind of a different context for it than playing, like sitting down at your computer versus it's like, you've got like that iPad screen or like a tablet screen, like,
00:23:36
Speaker
It feels a lot less, like it feels like you're doing a lot less opening it up and like poking around at a puzzle and then just closing it. than it does if you're doing that on a computer. You know the context of that?
00:23:49
Speaker
you know I could also imagine that playing this on touchscreen, the tactile element of interacting with the world and the puzzles might be a little more satisfying than a mouse-driven
Oreo Flavors and Snack Culture
00:24:02
Speaker
interface. Like I could see how given the mechanical nature of most of these puzzles,
00:24:06
Speaker
that literally being able to get your hands on them at some level could also be a ah better way to go at this. I'm convinced increasingly by this argument. All right, you know, Ben, next episode, we're playing a game that you're enjoying.
00:24:19
Speaker
Episode after that, we're revisiting Machinarium, and we're going to dig out our forsaken iPads and play it again. Sam.
00:24:29
Speaker
All right.
00:24:32
Speaker
I think you two would not bounce off the game if you found yourself in such a position. That's my tip for you both. i You know what? Good point. Oh, and regarding the international availability of different or Oreo flavors, which was mentioned on an earlier episode, I can only share this is what we have here, access to here in the Netherlands.
00:24:50
Speaker
So I'm opening up a store website. Uh... of a Netherlands, uh, uh, grocery. And it's, this is, you know, the great bounty of America, know, like, uh, uh, this is only the problem.
00:25:08
Speaker
There's a variety here, but there, there's not, you know, the rich. is What I will say. So looking because i I'm not describing this at all is, is that the, the Netherlands, uh, uh, selection of, uh, Oreo, uh,
00:25:26
Speaker
uh, options is largely in here. I'll, I'll send you, uh, in the chat here. Uh, is that they're mostly all base Oreos, which is to say the black and white cookie.
00:25:46
Speaker
It's just that they're, they're different. uh variations on it yeah so it's like oreo vanilla wafer rolls oreo uh double cream mini bites uh there's less of in fact and when i say less of there's the only other option that i'm seeing uh of like just the we've changed the cookie or we've changed the filling is they have the golden one.
00:26:21
Speaker
But it doesn't have like the red velvet or, you know, the dark chocolate or like Selena Gomez. Selena Gomez flavored.
00:26:33
Speaker
And, you know, you know, that's that's a Yeah. I mean, this is a note to listeners everywhere. Send us photos of the food products that we talk about as they exist in in your own country. We would love to know more about Oreos around the world.
Adventure Game Design: Challenges and Critiques
00:26:51
Speaker
I'm always fascinated by bizarre Kit Kat photos. Oh, but there's more.
00:26:58
Speaker
photos just like this because i want to know more about foods elsewhere in this quest class the foods ben and i are thinking about podcasts
00:27:12
Speaker
No doubt a very meager selection compared to what is available in the United States, but you do have to realize that the competition for Oreo is quite fierce. I'm going to send you a second. Uh-oh, uh-oh.
00:27:23
Speaker
This competition is... Leads up with Biscoff. I don't care for Biscoff. This is one of your, another classic bad Jess food take.
00:27:37
Speaker
No, I mean, I like the, the flat attendant comes by and I'm like, no, actually I'll just be hungry. That's okay. Uh, they've got, we, I mean, this makes sense. Of course. Stroop waffles.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Okay. They've, they've started to have those on airplane, like airplanes too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are great. Um, uh we uh like oh i mean i don't know fruit biscuit i love a belgian uh or i'm sorry uh i guess dutch style um fruit biscuit um that is uh that is right up my alley if you'll scroll down a little bit um i've scored those aldi before and those are delicious
00:28:23
Speaker
i always love this surprise good, like, big treat at Aldi. I'm zeroing in on these custard cakes. Oh, man. That look really good. um benny got the best ramen recently ah at Aldi. it was It's like a creamy instant ramen. It's like a creamy and spicy chicken ramen.
00:28:46
Speaker
Ramen, it's almost, it is so savory and so creamy. It's almost like eating mac and cheese. But at the same time, it's like chickeny and spicy. It's amazing.
00:28:57
Speaker
Out of this world. So no need to worry about us. Keep up the good work with the podcast. It's much appreciated. Cheers. Thank you so much. You know, i was goingnna I was going to abbreviate that, but, i ah you know, it was much to chew on. I loved playing FTL on the iPad.
00:29:19
Speaker
That might even be. I don't know if that's my preferred way to play FTL, but it is definitely on par.
00:29:30
Speaker
Wow. with With playing it with a mouse and keyboard. um i loved playing and it also if you like man i love ftl so much oh ftl played years i should revisit it ftl is a game that like i have a couple games and and and maybe you have these two that like every two to three years uh like i'll get the scratch or get the yeah and and be like i gotta
00:30:03
Speaker
I'm going play FTL and then play it very intensely for like a month. Yeah. Like play nothing but FTL, like only play FTL and then go like, that's all the FTL I need. And then two to three years later, I'll go. You got to get it again.
00:30:20
Speaker
Got that itch. So I played FTL like like I had that happen to me last year. So i got ah at least another year um before I get back into it. Another game. ah that exists like that for me is roller coaster tycoon like every like two years i get the itch and i'm like did you see that the mars attacks theme park sim came out good i've heard it's all right i can't believe that that seems fascinating to me i am also surprised by that and i am intrigued uh yes yeah i haven't like looked too much into it other than that people said
00:30:58
Speaker
that It's supposed to be good. And um like, which was just very interesting to me. Yeah, the last thing I would have expected. It's called Mars Attracts, which is funny such a good title. Mars Attracts.
00:31:17
Speaker
It's a park management sim set in the iconic universe of Mars Attacks trademark. um What a great, weird idea. looks really good, man. We need to play this.
00:31:30
Speaker
Not for this podcast. Yeah. It is an adventure game. And speaking of adventure games, Jess, what have you been playing?
00:31:39
Speaker
What have I been playing? You know... I've spent a little bit of time recently, like ah a game that was a really fun distraction for me ah for a bit just a couple of days ago is one that I've seen a lot of people talking about on the Internet. It's a web based game. Oh, I heard about this. Yes.
00:32:01
Speaker
From Neil.fun. And it's called I'm Not a Robot. And basically the concept of the game is it's played entirely in your browser and it is a series of increasingly ridiculous captchas to prove that in fact you're not a robot, that you are a human.
00:32:20
Speaker
Which starts very easily with just like all the captchas you know. And eventually they start getting a little tricky. Like you get to that existential question of like, what counts as a stop sign in this photo?
00:32:31
Speaker
Is the pole part of a stop sign? Is the little corner that's like two pixels outside of this box, is that part of the stop sign? And you have to make calls like that to proceed. And each level,
00:32:42
Speaker
it becomes more and more difficult to prove your humanity and more and more ridiculous. I don't want to spoil too much of it because they get pretty wacky, but it involves everything from eventually you like have to you know hit the checkbox to prove you're human, but it will start moving and making it difficult to catch up with it with your mouse cursor and other things of that sort.
00:33:02
Speaker
Just getting more and more ludicrous. It's a cute diversion for like 15 or 20 minutes. I highly recommend it. It's neal.fun, N-E-A-L F-U-N.
00:33:14
Speaker
I'm not a robot. Just a really charming web game. And I'm actually late to neal.fun. I've been clicking through some of these other... some of these other games that are housed there.
00:33:26
Speaker
And there are a lot of really charming ones. I particularly enjoyed Absurd Trolley Problems, which gives you sort of the classic philosophical exercise of the trolley problem and keeps giving you more and more ludicrous examples of, well, what if this was the scenario? Does that change whether or not you flip the lever and send the trolley hurtling toward a bunch of innocent people?
00:33:48
Speaker
Like, would you do it if it was your greatest enemy that was going to be hit? Those sorts of questions. So it's a fun site, but I really enjoyed I'm Not a Robot. It was it was a good time. I'll have to check that out because, yeah, I saw a lot of people posting about it. And I was like, that sounds interesting. And then just kind of.
00:34:07
Speaker
and were got to If anything anything, like, I think the fun is in seeing after each level how it's going to heighten it again. And like, once you get to the next screen, you're like, oh, you gotta be kidding me. For real, this is what it is now.
00:34:21
Speaker
And it just keeps pulling that trick over and over again. Which that thing I think that's the fun, just seeing how far it can take this concept of increasingly impossible captures to complete. Like one of them is,
00:34:35
Speaker
you have to draw a perfect circle with your mouse. I think you have to have like a 94% accurate circle in four seconds or less on your screen. oh And that one, I think I spent about 10 minutes alone.
00:34:50
Speaker
Like I got to like 93.7 and couldn't beat it. And eventually tipped over to 94, withdrawing a perfect circle with my mouse. But that if you enjoy that kind of just like fun little diversion, great way to waste a little bit time.
00:35:04
Speaker
Ben? Yeah. How have you been playing? Well, Jess, so recently I've been like kind of poking around on on GOG.
00:35:19
Speaker
Good old games. They did this thing. i don't know how recently. This could have been like a couple months ago or could have been years ago. And I just never noticed
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah, this is fascinating to me. And I like, you know, I think I've said this on on the podcast, but I am pro mod. am against making them work.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yes. I'm too lazy to install pods, but God bless the people making them. Like, yeah, yeah, I think I've said this. It's like, you know, like, I would love to to have a really cool version of Skyrim with all the trimmings.
00:36:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But that's so much fucking work, and don't tell me it's not.
00:36:22
Speaker
Like, don't you dare. I modded out Fallout New Vegas last time I played it quite a bit. And it was one the heroin experiences in my life. You have to go to like this this website where, unless you pay the money, everything yeah downloads slow. yeah And then like you have to set everything up to load in some special order. And mean when I say heroin, I do mean someone had written a perfect 36-step guide for babies.
00:36:48
Speaker
And if I could simply follow that, it worked. And even then it's just like 36 steps is a lot of steps for a guy like me. you know, I think like in the world of Gog trying to figure out how to differentiate itself, I think this is a good idea because like,
00:37:09
Speaker
You know, I'm mod curious, but I'm not mod effort. And it's like, you know, GOG had like this wonderful, ah like all these great, you know, all these great games. And then Steam was like, oh, yeah, we'll put all those on there too.
00:37:27
Speaker
yeah and And then that became a big problem. So this is like a really nice differentiator. And so... This was a good, i was curious and I saw they have a ready version of
00:37:51
Speaker
a Diablo 1 HD mod called Belzebub. I am pronouncing it. This is interesting. It is the name of the mod. If you look it up, it is Belzebub, B-E-L-Z-E-B-U-B, or Belzebub, Belzebub.
00:38:12
Speaker
But in the write-up, I think someone was getting like a spell corrected when they read the write-up. is it It does spell it as Beelzebub in the write-up on Gog. Anyway...
00:38:27
Speaker
It is Diablo 1 and it runs nice and windowed. I'm right there. You've got me. I'm on Windows of today, 10 or 11.
00:38:40
Speaker
It goes up to Like it goes up to like, so, but you can zoom in with your mouse wheel. So it's like, you can have like a big way far out view of your little guy,
00:38:56
Speaker
Or you can zoom in and it's going to be a little, you know, pixely and blurry, but you could do that if you'd like.
00:39:04
Speaker
They added couple new classes, including like they threw in, I think was, what's the class they added in Hellfire? Whatever that one was, that one's in there.
00:39:20
Speaker
Then they added i like one or two more. It's there's warrior sorcerer rogue. Those are the base ones. Then necromancer and barbarian. I think barbarian was what they added in health. That sounds right. Now there's four difficulty levels.
00:39:36
Speaker
a bunch of gameplay improvements and changes. It's widescreen. There's crafting. They added some like quests that were like, you know, this is always, you know, whenever there's a mod, you know, the quests that like, you know, weren't implemented, they put back in there, but there's new spells and new items and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:40:04
Speaker
Were you a Diablosman back in the day? Did you play this at time of release? I didn't play Diablo at the time, but I did. here's here's a weird Here's a weird take.
00:40:16
Speaker
think Diablo 1 might be the one I like the most. Interesting. I think it's the one I've spent the most time with, personally. and And the reason for that is is that I think Diablo 1 is the one that gives you the most enjoyable like single player experience.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yes. Like Diablo 2...
00:40:39
Speaker
Which I've had a ton of fun with.
00:40:43
Speaker
Like Diablo 2 is only and like, so like i've I've only played 2 and 3. haven't played the 4. um But 2, like obviously that's a LAN party classic.
00:40:56
Speaker
That was a lot of fun to play with my friends at a LAN party. I'm not going to take that away. But like for like a single player experience, I thought Diablo 2 is just not as much fun.
00:41:08
Speaker
think Diablo 1 is a considerably more entertaining and engaging to me anyway. Yeah. Single player experience. There's just little things about Diablo 1 that just always...
00:41:21
Speaker
Like I just always liked a little bit more. um I'm not a hardcore Diablos man, but that is like another thing where like that's a a genre that like every once in a while I'm like, I want to play a like one of those ARPGs. Like I you ever do Torchlight. Did you ever spend any time with that one? I got Torchlight 1 and 2. Yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
Well, everyone owns it. That's one of those things that everyone's gotten at a bundle at some point by now. And Torchlight 1 just did not do it for me. Uh-huh. I don't know.
00:41:54
Speaker
And then Torchlight 2, which was, like, i played a fair amount of Torchlight 2, especially during, like, in 2020 with friends. But it never quite...
00:42:07
Speaker
did it for me and I don't i couldn't tell you why, it just did. You need that extreme like hell dimension sort of vibe. You like that very metal like demon thing to to really get going. And recently i got ah the last ah Epoch, epic, Epoch, whatever.
00:42:29
Speaker
And I played a little bit of that and I think it's fine.
00:42:35
Speaker
But I think... You know, I think it's just one of those things where it's just like, it's kind of, if it might just be a got it in one. Yeah. For the single player experience at least.
00:42:48
Speaker
Um, uh, like, you know, I can't, uh, But like for the the single player experience, something about like the the first Diablo just really, I don't know. I just enjoy it more. I can't tell you why. I just like it.
00:43:04
Speaker
This is the the one that I like the most. Also, so you can up your walking speed in the town with the mod. Oh, thank God. you don't walk slowly.
00:43:16
Speaker
Are you Diablosman? You know, I've spent the most time with Diablo 1. There was summer when I was home from college that my best friend and I spent a lot time in
00:43:36
Speaker
That was sort of, i think, pirated copies of both of them. But yeah, we were dialing into each other's modems for most of that summer. Neither one of us were working. and just played a whole lot of Blizzard games that that summer. And i will agree, I've played, I think I've played all the Diablo games, to varying degrees.
00:44:00
Speaker
For me, honestly, I mean, In the absence of having like a friend nearby that I can but can play with easily, most of my Diablo time has been single player Diablo. And I got to say, I think I like Diablo one for that same reason. It was interesting to hear you say that because I can't quite put my finger on what the difference is. I guess at the time they were scared to death to make a game that was geared and like balanced and everything entirely toward multiplayer. That was such an uncertain premise in the mid 90s to say this is a game that we're selling as a multiplayer game rather than this is a game with multiplayer, which makes me wonder if that's why the first one's balanced a little more in favor of single player being a workable mode. Yeah, my my understanding and I could absolutely be wrong is that the multiplayer was just kind of a, hey, let's just do this, like just kind of a throw in.
00:44:57
Speaker
And then like that was such like, you know, it be like it that was became the appeal. And so then they were like, okay, Diablo is a multiplayer game.
00:45:10
Speaker
And that's fine because the most fun that I've with all like with two and three and Torchlight 2 was have been with friends.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah. And like the most fun I had with three was I had three on my switch and I played it couch co-op with a friend of mine.
00:45:33
Speaker
Like for, for hours, like him and i like we would hang out at my place and just played on my switch on my TV. And that was like pretty, like that was pretty cool.
00:45:46
Speaker
Um, but like, You know, probably only played it single player for like, I don't know, 30, 40 minutes.
00:45:57
Speaker
It was just like, I don't know, this isn't that much fun. I just used it to scam people in the real money auction house. That's all I did was just like try to make big money selling stuff in in there before they got rid of it.
00:46:08
Speaker
And the thing is also, it's like, my other problem is, is that I don't have that many friends that are into like playing Diablo or any of its, you know, subsequent iterations in multiplayer. And I only like, I don't play multiplayer with strangers.
00:46:27
Speaker
I just don't. I mean, I play a lot like Overwatch and stuff, but that's more of a matter of necessity. I mean, yeah, that's, That's different. And that's over in five minutes, and you're with another terrible group of strangers. um like I have a friend that will play Like, he'll he'll he'll play a bunch of games with, like, strangers and stuff.
00:46:48
Speaker
And he'll, like, just tell these stories. If it's just like, oh, yeah, there was this guy, and we were playing, and, like, he said all these horrible things. It would be like, you know, there's a really easy way not to have to it. Yeah.
00:47:01
Speaker
That's never play with strangers. That's what my parents told me yeah had to do when I was 10. And now I'm almost 40. Yeah. 30 years later. This is absolutely the answer. yeah I mean, I've, I've made the mistake like once and only once of wandering into the lobby to play a little bit of, uh, borderlands with some random strangers. And boy, that combination is a dangerous combination. Borderlands players. You don't know are the worst people on earth.
00:47:31
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry. Borderlands players that I don't know. Yeah. They're, they're not a friend you haven't met. Um, all right. Well, i you know, ah today we're going a little extreme. we're Today we're we're taking prisoners.
00:47:51
Speaker
That's right. Bad news. Adventure game devs, we're coming for you. We're going hard. Watch out out there. We're going to get you. these are These are harsh truths.
00:48:04
Speaker
We're harsh truth tellers. Yeah. And yeah know the thing is, like Nobody up to this point has really ever complained about adventure game puzzles before. That's going blow the lid off of this thing. That's right. We are going That's right.
00:48:18
Speaker
yeah Everybody out there is too afraid because they're worried they'll hurt someone's feelings. Oh, boo-hoo-hoo-hoo. putting you on blast, adventure game designers.
00:48:35
Speaker
All right. I'm going to break kayfabe here like 30 seconds into it to say there is nothing that turns me off more than an internet badass.
00:48:47
Speaker
Oh, God. Oh, yeah. Honestly... in in person to like somebody that puts on those errors, but especially and on the internet because it's the internet.
00:48:57
Speaker
Like, and I don't care that like now everybody does it like is everybody's on the internet. And so they, you know, they might actually ride a motorcycle. Like, but, um, someone on the internet probably does.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah. There's gotta be at least one person on motorcycle that's been on the internet. Um, but like, especially if it's like, it's like,
00:49:21
Speaker
I'm the real badass on the Star Trek forum. Like, five I'm the toughest motherfucker on this Mystery Science Theater 3000 forum.
00:49:34
Speaker
This is starting to sound like targeted toward a specific person or person you've encountered. Like, can give us a username? Is this based on... internet people I've seen?
00:49:45
Speaker
Absolutely. is there like a specific no, but it's like they exist, you know, like, yeah, yeah. and then mean the people listening to this, if you're not nodding to this, take a look at that mirror, my friend.
00:49:58
Speaker
ah You know, for me too, like, I can't stand, like, the bad acidness is is obnoxious. i also can't stand, like, the performative outrage about bad games.
00:50:13
Speaker
Like, there was a time when I could, you know, handle your angry game reviewer. And today is not that time. Like there's like we could do this whole thing. It's like where topic is going to be about adventure game puzzles that we don't like.
00:50:30
Speaker
but We know more extreme that we hate. But I mean, theses fuck you. Yeah. and i don't know. I'm going to like, ah, this is a pile of donkey shit. You ever have this puzzle in a game and you made it? You're a bad person.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah. poor you You have poor marble moral fiber. Poor marble fiber. Poor marble fiber. Poor marble fiber.
00:51:04
Speaker
See, I hate internet badasses, but I love... hermigarbuer spps That one still works for me.
00:51:16
Speaker
That one's still really funny. I showed that to my daughter the other day. She watched the Goosebumps movie. And i was like, I walked in. i was like, what are you watching? She's like, I'm watching Goosebumps. And I'm like, Irma Gerd. And she's like, what? And was like, I see this meme. And I showed her, she's like, that's pretty funny, dad.
00:51:31
Speaker
And it's hard to get a meme by a 12 year old. ah That is not an easy task. But Irma Gerd Goosebumps are per mural for bro.
00:51:43
Speaker
you it works pretty well yeah perverver fervor man of lure marble furble from merler island well that makes me think of the classic uh dr demento sketch oh here go uh a large orange drink you know that one remember no i'm i i know of dr demento don't know if i've ever seen a moment of dr demento well was a radio show so yeah well yeah maybe you can see a radio yeah but
00:52:14
Speaker
good point but it it was uh it's called uh fast food it was this old ah it was this this bit that they would play on uh dr demento's radio show which i think he just stopped but yeah i think so very very recently the ah very old man but anyway it was just like it was and this is you know this is from a more innocent time where this could be a whole joke two and a half minutes is somebody is it's it's it's a a radio uh sketch they would play on the the novelty comedy show dr demento
00:52:56
Speaker
where was somebody trying to order like a large fast food order from a drive-thru window. And the the radio was, and the last, you know, kind of like, nothing's funnier than explaining a joke.
00:53:12
Speaker
um ah It's, you know, like night at the opera and it always ends with a large orange drink. You know?
00:53:23
Speaker
Dan, while we're talking to Dr. Demento. Yeah, let's keep going. never yeah what's up Have you seen weird the Weird Al story, the film with Daniel Radcliffe? have enough. Dr. Demento is obviously a character in this, played by Rainn Wilson, ah who's who's having some fun with it.
00:53:40
Speaker
But there's this amazing scene where they are at a Hollywood party, and like Dr. Demento has brought Weird Al to this party to introduce him to Hollywood. And the gag is like everyone at the party is a weird counterculture celebrity.
00:53:57
Speaker
So it's just like this parade of cameos like Jack Black is Wolfman Jack. ah Conan O'Brien is playing Andy Warhol. Emo Phillips is Salvador Dali. Divine is there.
00:54:09
Speaker
Yorma Tacone from the Lonely Island is Pee Wee Herman. Who's playing Divine? ah Nina West, drag queen Nina West. ah Dimitri Martin is playing Tiny Tim. Paul F. Tompkins is playing Gallagher. So it's like the idea you just take every weird counterculture figure and put them all at this party together where Weird Al shows up and they're like, this guy's not legit.
00:54:29
Speaker
He doesn't have what it takes. And then he wows them with playing another one rides the bus.
00:54:36
Speaker
ah Like in like a, like a very confrontational way. He's like, and like Dr. Demento is like, my guy, I'll show you what he's got. know, get your accordion out. And he's just like up in everyone's faces playing. and Another one rides the bus.
00:54:49
Speaker
This is a Ben and Jess explain ah funny jokes that they saw. ah yeah It's a good movie. I just love the idea of a party of weird a Hollywood misfits.
00:55:00
Speaker
i Like that, that would exist. You put everybody there together. Salvador Dali, Andy Warhol, Divine, bill that's a clue kids one of uh those uh aforementioned people uh are will we be discussing them next week who can say anyway um all right so but the bear podcast about divine yeah we're gonna the of john waters we're gonna play the uh adventure game uh the divine adventure game we're gonna play oh man john waters filth the adventure game
00:55:32
Speaker
each box came with a real dog shit in it what's up we should make a divine adventure game that'd be amazing let's do filthy adventure game i i feel that and i'm whispering this i feel that um sort of okay to yes uh uh i feel that I would want, I would want to pull like someone, you know, kind of deep like drag world. Yeah. I think you'd need that. I think you'd need that. i Do we know anybody?
00:56:06
Speaker
i mean, I know people, but, um yeah well he ah but, ah but yeah, I mean, to, to make a the, the, the filthiest because it would be like, it would be like the filthiest adventure game of all time. and divine's adventure game like I gotta rewatch pink flamingos anyway so the worst yeah what's up no please go ahead ah the ah puzzles that we don't like and and so we like here's the thing
00:56:39
Speaker
Is that like, if you've been listening this far and I think this is episode 49. Yeah. yeah You'd know that Ben, and I don't like any puzzles. We just want our games fed to us.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. Like was, I want spoon fed directly into me. Uh, I don't want puzzles. I mean, weren're neither one of us are, I think it's safe to say are people who come at adventure games from the standpoint of like, I want a challenging puzzle to crack.
00:57:05
Speaker
I don't mind like, you know, being forced to solve a puzzle, but I don't love having to ruminate on a puzzle for hours either. Yeah. Like there's like that sensation that, that ah like they'll talk about um with adventure games where it's like, you know, I tried to solve this thing and I was walking down the street and I was like, Oh my God, i have to throw the boot at that rat.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah. um or that what was it the cat to save that yeah yeah like you know like it's it's like i i you know the worst thing about that is when i've tried to play an adventure game that way and then i have been walking down the street and like i do think like ah what if i try this and then i go to the game and then it doesn't work then i'm even more mad yeah yeah yeah no this makes perfect sense So I have i have a a list.
00:58:03
Speaker
Okay, well, why don't you hit me with one of the the puzzles you hate from your list? um so So here's here's also a proviso ah that I'll, another proviso that I'll put ah on the top of this, which is that, like, i there's good versions of all these puzzles.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah. um So i think... i This is... and and i One of the the the ones that I... A puzzle that I never am a fan of are if you get within the game quiz. And it's either a quiz...
00:58:52
Speaker
and its either quiz like of trivia inside the game, ah ha or it's a quiz of stuff that you should know inside the game.
00:59:09
Speaker
Now, ostensibly, that's what a lot of the game is. Like if you're having like dialogue and you're talking with characters, that requires you to to know stuff. But like I've played games where they're like, where where it will be like, oh yeah, well, what's so-and-so's favorite color?
00:59:26
Speaker
And you're like, ah have this fucking conversation, figure out this guy's favorite color. Like, that's annoying. Like, you know, like it's, it, I, I never enjoy, like, first off the trivia quiz thing. I think that's, that's pretty self.
00:59:44
Speaker
Like that's, that's pretty obvious. It's like, you know, I like, I, you know, I, I want the game to assume I'm a fucking Tabula Raza or whatever, like coming into it.
00:59:56
Speaker
Um, Like, you know, I just wrapped up on my stream Thimbleweed Park and it's like, and this isn't that bad, but it's like there there's little like, there's a ah segment where you you have to answer like 80s trivia questions.
01:00:12
Speaker
And it's like the easiest thing in the world. They're not hard questions. Yeah. But it's it's like just something about that the game expects you to know that really annoys me.
01:00:24
Speaker
um You know, yeah, like I'm trying to think now the Wayne's World game that we've talked about on here before, of course, has a lengthy trivia game scene. That one. Does it matter? Your answers is is like the gag. No, you was win no matter what.
01:00:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's like Babe Jeopardy, right? Isn't that like the concept of it? So you're just like answering questions about various babes, but it doesn't matter well regardless what you answer. The very stressful thing about it is that it's such a long and tedious section in Wayne's world. don't know it doesn't matter as you're doing it. For you know, there are right and wrong answers. And so like you see the other characters get a bunch of points and, and you're just like, Oh my God, am going to have to do all this shit again?
01:01:06
Speaker
is this is taking forever? ah and then, and then at the end, it doesn't matter, which, Uh, like, like, yeah yeah, I don't think that necessarily counts, but that is of really, is that even a puzzle? It's a tedious part of the game.
01:01:21
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, no, it's not. The entire game is a tedious part of the game. It's all tedium. Oops. all Oops, all tedium. But yeah, like quizzes or like, as I said, either, either a pop quiz on things within or without the game within like that format.
01:01:39
Speaker
I mean, like, all right, let me ask you a question. What's this person's hair color? Mm-hmm. Now, Laura Bow 2 ends with a bit of this, right? And i was i was I was thinking about this, and I was like, that doesn't...
01:01:53
Speaker
that That's not my favorite, but I don't think... I think that's fine. Like, the way that the like Laura Bow or ah the Crimson Diamond ends, like where it's like, okay, well, who's doing this? Who's doing this? so That feels like something necessary to that type of game. Right. That's a genre convention.
01:02:09
Speaker
otherwise it's just telling telling you kind of like at the end of colonel's bequest one you just sort of see your notebook at the end and you know it's just like here's everything you observe through the game but you don't actually get a chance to like show that you've put the pieces together yourself yeah all right jess what's one of yours oh man you know was thinking about this and a game i played recently for the first time that had a kind of puzzle that bothered me a little bit um is i was playing Tex Murphy under a killing moon for the first time. A game I really enjoyed. it
01:02:43
Speaker
Great, great game. Really, yeah i feel sort of silly that it took me that long to get around to playing Tex Murphy because I feel like if I played it in the nineties, would have been obsessed with Tex Murphy. um you you would under You would have bought a jacket.
01:02:56
Speaker
i would have bought a jacket. I would have done the whole thing. Yeah. yeah I would have been still wearing my trench coat to this day. we should do an episode on that. We should. Why, wait, why hasn't that been on our list?
01:03:08
Speaker
man could you update our list i'm going to update our list right now so that would be like i love that game yeah and next week is space quest 4 uh-huh and then the week after that let's do tex murphy Great.
01:03:21
Speaker
Okay, updated. Good. um But a puzzle or a kind of a puzzle format that bothered me a bit from that came with some of the dialogue puzzles, which was oh there would be like a specific way you had to navigate through a conversation, which meant like, maybe it's option A, when the first prompt comes up, and then option A again.
01:03:45
Speaker
And then if you don't move over to option B, by the next time you have a chance to speak, it resets the whole conversation. Oh, I hate those too. Yeah, you have to, through trial and error, figure out the exact sequence that you're going to move through this conversation because saying any of the wrong options throws you back to square one, um which really, in most cases too, since it's Tex Murphy,
01:04:08
Speaker
It's never clear. And a lot of his dialogue options are sort of vague in the sense of like, do you want to be funny and self-deprecating? Do you want to get serious? Yeah. do you want to try to turn on the charm? Yeah. So it has already, it doesn't tell you what you're going to say. it kind of gives you a general mood of what your response will be.
01:04:25
Speaker
So oftentimes there's no way to judge what a character is going to respond to or really even what text might say. So there's in a lot of cases, I feel like probably no way to get through this other than just trial and error. You you mess it up.
01:04:38
Speaker
And then you're in some of the longer ones. It's like, well, now I'm in my guy. yeah you suddenly she's dying have to reload and it's sort of a slow reload because you gotta hear james earl jones do his whole spiel as the great detective in the sky or whatever um but some of these dialogue trees are pretty long too so you're like remember it's like okay it's a a c then c again then b and then a and then i don't know what's next so if i get the next one wrong i may be going back all the way to the beginning again yep to try this dialogue uh yeah
01:05:10
Speaker
tree that bug it was one of the few things in that game that drove me a little batty and again it's easily solvable if you're just patient especially if you're willing to jot down what the options are and some of the longer ones it's not hard but it's also unfor it's unforgiving in a way that's not terribly fun especially when these are lengthy conversations already in a lot cases um that's what bugs me another one maybe on a ah similar tip dialogue based There's nothing I like less than when choosing the same dialogue option in a conversation like a second or third time eventually yields a different ah result.
01:05:54
Speaker
like There's one of these in Secret of Monkey Island, right? Like a guide brush has to ask somebody please a few times or maybe it's in one of the later episodes. monkey island games to get them to get them something yeah it may not be secret there's one there's at least one monkey island game along the way where like the solution the puzzle is you ask somebody for something they say no and then you ask them a couple more times please and they're like okay here you go um that one kind of bugs me a little bit too just because i feel like it's it's lazy puzzle design it's easy to miss that kind of bugs yeah i i agree with you like
01:06:29
Speaker
I like the games that like kind of make a point of like kind of graying out. Like I think, yes. uh doesn't broken sword do this you're playing that right now like it does generally speaking it removes dialogue options once you've asked everything there is yeah once you've exhausted everything there is to know ah they just disappear from the so yeah and in broken sword like there's a lot of cases where you can click on the same icon in like a like when you're chatting with someone like
01:07:05
Speaker
multiple times. Yeah. And it will... It follows that meaningfully. Yeah. And then i think the only time, like, it will... like it makes that clear. And then it holds on to like one final little thing that contains whatever the puzzle relevant thing is. If I recall, it's been a minute since I played Broken Sword.
01:07:31
Speaker
But like that, I've always i've always liked ah in an adventure game, like dialogue wise, is when it starts to like gray out,
01:07:42
Speaker
or remove stuff when it's like okay well we don't need that anymore i won't waste my time with that one again yeah uh all right so here's another one um uh the games from the puzzle or uh puzzles from the puzzle box Puzzles from the Puzzle Boss. And so you know what I'm saying.
01:08:00
Speaker
The mosaics. I know what you're saying. I'm saying yeah the mosaics. I'm saying the slang tile puzzles, which are in, like, ah a lot of stuff. And for some reason, also, mosaics seem to be, like, the go-to for if you're revisiting an old adventure game and, like, trying to throw something in.
01:08:21
Speaker
Because doesn't, like... gabriel knight 25 doesn't that throw in yes it adds in a few it has like some if i recall it has a couple hidden object game sections and then some so some mosaic sliding tile type things to to pad out what's already a pretty long game yeah you know it's not like you anyone says like gabriel knight is too short but and yeah and if i recall correctly it's been even longer since I've played ah broken sword director's cut, which I would not recommend playing. Like, especially now that like the remastered version, reforged or reforged or whatever, um which, you know, doesn't monkey with a game at all.
01:09:07
Speaker
ah But ah the director's cut added new sequences. ah And if I recall correctly, that there was a slang title puzzle in there too. Like, it just kind of feels like they were like, bit you know, the the thing about the puzzle box puzzles in games where they don't like, especially if you're going to drop one into like a broken sword or Gabriel. Yeah.
01:09:37
Speaker
uh is like they really feel like they're just there to kill time like just to be like we need almost so different than a maze at that point where it's just like we need to extend play time on this game so we've dipped into the puzzle box and put something that doesn't entirely exist organically within the game you've been playing up to this point but now you've got to do it to proceed with towers of Hanoi yes fit that is puzzle box puzzle.
01:10:07
Speaker
And yes, like, Oh, especially it's especially insulting, insulting. I was, Oh, you're a bad person. If you did this in your game, you're bad. You're a bad person.
01:10:22
Speaker
You're a bad moral. Um, um But at the end of Kyrandia 2. Oh, end of Kyrandia 2. What I found to be a delightful game.
01:10:33
Speaker
um if you If you put a long time eating puzzle box puzzle the end of your game. Next to last screen.
01:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. Next to last screen. And do you recall what that puzzle is called in the game? It's called like the towers of something. The towers of annoy. So they are doing.
01:10:58
Speaker
Yeah. They are lampshading the fact that this is an annoying, frustrating puzzle. And it's not a game that's built around the idea of annoying the player up to that point. mag There might be a place to throw that so thing in to troll a player in the right game.
01:11:15
Speaker
But here it just literally feels like, hey, we're just trying to kill any sense of momentum that was going as you head into the final scene of this game. And we're going to admit right up front that this is an annoying puzzle to ask you to do.
01:11:28
Speaker
Like, that's not. Yeah. And you have to do it, I think, multiple times. Like, you have to get certain things out. Like, you... It has some wrinkles to it. Yeah.
01:11:40
Speaker
it yeah It has some wrinkles, but they're not, like, fun wrinkles. And to what you were saying, like, it doesn't subvert it in any way. It just kind of makes it harder, which is not fun.
01:11:51
Speaker
Like, it's just like, here's this annoying thing that we're calling annoying. Yeah. Like, ah yeah it's just like ha ha congratulations i'm blowing 50 bucks on this kid now now we're showing open contempt for it it's like you know like you know you're at the end of the game and you want to see the end of the game and you want to defeat the evil hand you want to defeat the hamburger helper yeah Like, ah you know, you want to you want to do all this.
01:12:20
Speaker
And then that, like, it just, like, absolutely demolishes your momentum up to that point.
01:12:32
Speaker
Just stinks. It stinks. It stinks. And if you did that book... yeah What are some of the other puzzle box puzzles? The mosaics.
01:12:46
Speaker
Let's see. Towers of Hanoi. I could think. So Towers of Hanoi, that is in Kyrania 2. That's in Zork 0. um And not an adventure game, but...
01:13:01
Speaker
ah the made me mad when I saw it saying uh the first Knights of the Old Republic game I think that's the first place I encountered it and I remember seeing that and like being I was like yeah I think think I actually stopped I think that was when I stopped the game Wow.
01:13:19
Speaker
See, I think I didn't know that puzzle until then. And I was just like, well, this is a little dumb, but I guess whatever. And didn't realize that I would encounter it many more times in other games after that. So that's the old Republic was actually my first.
01:13:33
Speaker
You played Kyrandia two after Knights of the Old Republic. Yeah, I didn't play Kyrandia two until like probably like, oh, 2015 um yeah i i bounced off of kyrandia one so hard there was no chance i was picking up why what what about kyrandia one made you not want play any of the other kyrandia games that's true you know it's actually one of my puzzles i hate uh kyrandia one was on my list um and and again not so much a specific puzzle but
01:14:08
Speaker
it bugs me in a game like Kyrandia one when an adventure game relies extensively on randomization. Uh, especially as someone who, yeah know, we've talked from the very first episode of this podcast onward, everyone go back and listen to that first episode. It's, it's, it's some of our best work and one of our most listened to episodes.
01:14:29
Speaker
Uh, unfortunately. Yeah. I mean, that's always, I mean that, that just straightforwardly is the curse of a podcast, like having, i it's but it's not our number one which is ah which is good number one is quest for glory one and i think that it is like one of our early strong ones uh yeah and i mean also a game it's like of course everybody wants to hear about question i want to hear about quest for glory one right beautiful game so yeah and you want to know what quest for glory one doesn't have any of any of these fucking puzzles correct that's right that's right the only point that quest for glory one i think
01:15:06
Speaker
is maybe with some of the three stooges stuff, but yeah, even like, but those are kind of annoying. They're not. Yeah. I don't mind trial and error if it's clever, you know, like I think that you can, it's also not long.
01:15:21
Speaker
No, i exactly. I mean, I even would say, I mean, let me get off topic here before i work back to Kyrandian randomization. But, you know, I even think of a puzzle like, you know, the Babelfish from Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy. You know, this infamous puzzle of how do you bounce the Babelfish into Arthur's ear in in the Infocom game.
01:15:45
Speaker
And while that is a frustrating, difficult puzzle in the sense that it's going to require trial and error. Nobody's just going to eyeball how to do this. And it's odd time, or you only have a certain number of moves before it's game over.
01:15:59
Speaker
But I feel like it's rewarding in the sense that if you're paying attention to the feedback the game is giving you, you can make that work. I think trial and error, much like on a smaller scale, like that Three Stooges scene at the end of of Quest for Glory, where you have to knock over a candelabra and eventually drop a chandelier on them and close and bolt a door. Yeah. And some other things like that.
01:16:25
Speaker
It's easy to figure out if you're paying attention there. The death messages give you very good hints about where you could go. i don't hate trial and error, but will say randomization really does bug me. And this is something like, again, as someone i was saying, you're going back to the first episode. We've been very open about the fact that we don't mind using walkthroughs. Both of us ah yeah aren't ashamed to consult a walkthrough.
01:16:48
Speaker
And a game like Kyrandia 1, where so much of it is gathering gems, like the whole game is just gathering gems at some level. And the locations of those gems being randomized and being randomized across all the screens of this game, a game with a whole lot of screens that all just look like boring green forests, beautifully rendered.
01:17:13
Speaker
but all of those sorts of elements to me aren't terribly satisfied it just feels like you're artificially lengthening the game it's not requiring thought or puzzle solving it just means that i'm gonna have backtrack and i had bad rng when i played this a few months ago like everything was scattered as far as possibly it could be from where i was in a given moment you know and uh You know, like, I think the thing about randomization with puzzles isn't just that,
01:17:48
Speaker
i like, you know, to to kind of make it a little trickier, especially, like, you know, to kind of, you know, flip the bird if you're using a walkthrough or whatever. But also, I think there's this idea within randomization that it's like, well, this will...
01:18:07
Speaker
you know ah provide a fresh experience uh if you if you play it again like replayability oh no no playthrough is the same twice and um and the thing is is that like the thing about like what draws me into adventure games ah is that they're handmade and that they have like, they're these narrative experiences and randomized segments often ah just kind of feel like it's just like, oh, well, we just kind of threw like, you know, a couple of the ah important items into a, you know,
01:19:01
Speaker
into um a randomizer and now they're thrown all over the place and like well with quest for glory one that might be a lot of fun with that randomizer because played that game a million times yeah in general like it that doesn't make it feel like i'm getting a new experience it just makes it's not real replayability yeah and uh you know this is opening up in my head a great example of randomization like making like in the name of, oh, this will make a new experience, but instead it just kind of makes it annoying is the entire last, all of the puzzles in the final sequence of Fay of Atlantis.
01:19:42
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's just like, you're, you're wandering around this, this large, like area that you have to navigate and there's like you have to get this X number of inventory items in order to like get through to get to the next ring deep within honestly avoiding Nazis as you're yeah sneaking around this area.
01:20:08
Speaker
Honestly, most of favorite Atlantis is last segment. I think could, could fill this whole podcast. Yeah. That's it is a game that goes off the rails in a bad way at the end of like a wonderful game that the final sequence is really a slog to get through. And The like that that sequence like it's just like, okay, well, I have to get this inventory item and i have to get this inventory item and i have to get this one.
01:20:36
Speaker
And it's just like I just have to wander into random rooms and hope I get the good RNG that the the one I need is in this room. Oh, okay. I guess I have to try this other room now.
01:20:47
Speaker
And like, that doesn't make the game more fun. I'm not like, Oh, it's in this place. Last time I played it. And I can't believe this time. Yeah. Or can it be? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm not playing hide and seek, you know, like I'm playing an adventure game.
01:21:02
Speaker
Honestly, this is probably a whole topic for an episode is like, this never ending like quest for replayability and adventure games and all the way that designers have tried to achieve this, whether it's randomization or different paths through the game and things like that. And how seldom this has actually worked. Now, again, quest for glory one, there's a game that came up with a pretty good way to do replayability.
01:21:25
Speaker
I think paths is a perfectly. Yeah. think, um, yeah thing um like, uh, like Rosewater, uh, kind of like that, that middle segment has, a bunch of like, kind of,
01:21:45
Speaker
I don't actually know. I think there's a little randomization, but it's also kind of based off of how, like, your relationships with with people. Like, I don't entirely. I can confirm that. Yeah. Talking Francisco about this. Friend of the pod, Francisco. And actually, Ben, big news, big news.
01:22:01
Speaker
um Francisco told me that he's about to try a new sandwich place in Miami. And I made him promise to submit a segment on what he eats there. He better be drunk this time, too.
01:22:15
Speaker
um Yeah, stay tuned, everyone, for another sandwich report from from our correspondent, Francisco Gonzalez. But but yeah yeah right in in Rosewater, absolutely. What you have in that second segment of the game, some of you it's a series of vignettes. Some of them are determined by your relationship with the characters in your party, ah you know sort of like almost Bioware style.
01:22:39
Speaker
And then others are just completely randomized. So the second act of the game, you know, you could have wildly different segments that appear based on how you've played it and just a roll of the dice at some level, which works really beautifully.
01:22:52
Speaker
Yeah. And that I think what makes those work is one, they're short vignettes. So it's like you burn right through them. And two, it's not like they're, It's not like it's actually the same thing every time. It's just that we randomize that.
01:23:07
Speaker
There's a guy in there that instead of asking you for a red hat, he's going to ask you for a green hat instead. And you have to look on the other side of the screen. Yeah. Like they're, they're just all little story seconds. Yeah. Like tiny, tiny little like 15, 20 minute little bites. Yeah.
01:23:24
Speaker
And then what Rosewater does beautifully is after you complete it and it unlocks the new game plus mode, I believe then you have the choice to pick what segments you get in the second act. I believe that's one of the features inside, yeah if I'm not mistaken. I think there's some sort of control over, or maybe you just get to see i think the levers behind. The character relationships. Okay, so you can just, yeah, I may have made that up.
01:23:48
Speaker
I don't think you get to make a play like heaven first in the latest patch to Rosewater. This is going to be added. This is the next. I haven't played the new game plus, but I was. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it may just be revealing where your stats are with everyone at a given time. I help you predict where you're going. But no, I mean, randomization can be done well, but I kind of hate the lazy version of it, like you said, where just like, last time I played this game, you know, told me the password was this.
01:24:19
Speaker
And, you know, now when I'm playing it, it's different and my walkthrough doesn't work. ah and everything is uh is just a little more frustrating ben what else bugs you what gets your goat uh you know the famous goat puzzle the goat puzzle the one where you have to put a cat hair mustache on a goat so you you have to uh move a box in front of a goat and give it a cat hair mustache I don't know why I'm with this.
01:24:47
Speaker
it's like This is the cat hair mustache accent that we practiced for the podcast.
The Debate on Timer Puzzles
01:24:53
Speaker
I, you know, I, um, am generally not a fan of, uh,
01:25:06
Speaker
this is This one's tricky because I'm going to say i'm I'm generally not a fan, but I've definitely seen these done well. I'm going to say a lot of the time these aren't done well, which is to say timer puzzles. yeah Now, the Drifter, a game that I like that came out recently, that has ah like kind of like, you know, timer, like it's like, oh, there's a bad guy coming at you and you have to do this sequence yeah of, of things in the right sequence.
01:25:40
Speaker
Those were pretty okay. Uh, there were, there were like one or two that I, I was like, Oh, what the fuck? Like I, I didn't know the right place to click, you know, it's like, Oh, I didn't click in that one thing. Of course.
01:25:56
Speaker
Um, but like, I feel that ah the, you know, and there will never, ever be episodes about this, but ah like Space Quest has a fair amount of like kind of timer.
01:26:09
Speaker
Or is it like timer puzzles, like, or like kind of action puzzles? You know what I mean? And oftentimes they go hand in hand. You when I was thinking of, because I had this on my list as well.
01:26:21
Speaker
um And I was actually thinking about one of your streams from, gosh, it's probably been a couple of years back now. ah But when you streamed Conquests of Camelot, and there is in the like ah catacombs in the final act of the game, ah the the King Arthur gets bitten by rat.
01:26:42
Speaker
Right. Which now puts the whole game on a timer, right? If you don't find the Holy Grail, before he succumbs to super rabies or whatever, you bubonic plague or whatever it is that he's contracted like 30 minutes earlier.
01:26:57
Speaker
It's game over for you. So it becomes now this sort of race to the end of the game once you've been bitten. And unfortunately there's an action sequence in between you and the end of the game. Oh, it's that fucking Saracen. Yeah, the you're having to fight this Saracen warrior who just shows up at the end of the game kind of there just as ah as a final obstacle. Oh, that was said remember oh that was so miserable. are you on the verge You had been bitten, and your saved game but was at a time where basically...
01:27:24
Speaker
I don't know if you have had to have perfectly fought that fight to get out of it before the rat bite killed you, or if you were just a dead man walking at that point, you know, but either way, I remember that was immensely frustrating to watch you play through.
01:27:38
Speaker
And that sort of vibe, I mean, Space Quest has one of these in Space Quest 2 with like the Xenomorph style alien. that that kisses you but that one's a dead that's a death either way there's no way to finish the game quickly enough to avoid that killing you I kind of hate this one more in Conquest of Camelot where now it's like well better finish the game buddy I feel like most things that rush you through an adventure game aren't something I love about adventure games. I don't want to be rushed through an adventure game. And a lot of times these puzzles that involve timers in one way or another put you in that rushing mode. Yeah, for sure. um And it's, it's like, or, um you know, like the Galleria ah and in four in space quest for like avoiding
01:28:27
Speaker
and like i because i and we'll talk more about this next week yeah yeah yeah when we finally we finally just jump right to space quest 4 and you know when we do that ben we're actually i've uh we'll also cover space quest 10 and 12 and and one i've got you on the hook i'm actually tricking you into covering several space quest games now oh that's so funny
01:28:59
Speaker
you know what really bugs me though like i consider those sequels in that game like part of the series and i looked at the wikipedia entry the other day and i even mentioned you're being you can't
01:29:12
Speaker
i don't know who's editing that entry but i feel like a lot of the stuff us fans love is gone now from it so uh yeah it's a real shame
01:29:23
Speaker
Our friend, the wikipedia our my Wikipedia man, Grayson, has spent the better part of this week cleaning up the Space Quest Wikipedia page. He's called in sick to work every day this week so he could fix the Space Quest Wikipedia. and Yeah, several long conference calls with Mark and Scott and then the two of them together.
01:29:46
Speaker
Like... Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now it's fine. The entry is fine. I mean, all the flavor and things we loved about it are gone. But it's now just one paragraph that says the Space Quest series was some games made by Sierra starring Roger Wilco.
01:30:05
Speaker
there there were There were four to eight of them. And that seems really weird to me because it seems like that would be something you could just nail down. But yeah, that's all the the entry is now. it took out any details beyond that.
01:30:17
Speaker
yeah Some enjoy it. Some enjoy it. And then it just says citation needed. And it's not even like in the little brackets in a superscript. It is literally ah comma citation needed. yeah Some like comma.
01:30:29
Speaker
And then you click on it and then like you just see a man laughing at you pointing his finger and laughing at you. I can't believe the editors would let that by. He's in there. he's he's deep in.
01:30:42
Speaker
the yeah yeah mean Yeah, he's part of the deep state over at Wikipedia. The deep wick. um yes do you have any other uh oh god puzzles that you hate oh man what gets my goat um you know i think there's some that think get talked a lot about like like i don't hate the cat hair mustache as much as a lot of people that's not the dumbest puzzle in gabriel knight three There's like the puzzle where at one point there's a window jammed shut and you have to rub it with hemorrhoid cream to get it open because that's going to shrink the wood enough to allow the window to open. That's twice as dumb as a cat hair mustache. Now...
01:31:25
Speaker
does like if you examine the hemorrhoid cream like does it give any sort of hint or are you supposed to like kind of be like well hemorrhoid cream shrinks hemorrhoids so therefore it would do the same to wood Yeah, I think you have to have Freddy Farkas manual to understand how hemorrhoids work and then cross-reference that with Gabriel Knight 3 to figure it out But I mean, that's whatever. Like, moon logic doesn't kill me necessarily. I feel like
01:31:57
Speaker
so much of adventure games are built on moon logic. I hate to pick on all those same old moon logic-y sorts of puzzles. You know, people have also talked a lot about, I think this is going to be tough, you know, when you have puzzles that are highly localized or esoteric that aren't going to necessarily work outside of the cultural context.
01:32:14
Speaker
they' on really Monkey Ranch is one, you know, even think like, I, I feel like in space quest six, the monkey wrench in a monkey island too.
01:32:27
Speaker
Yeah. What'd I say? No, no. I was making it clear for anyone listening. if Yeah. Yeah. my yeah until At one point you have to use a monkey as a wrench and monkey wrench is apparently a phrase that only exists in American English everywhere else. It's a monkey spanner.
01:32:43
Speaker
Yeah. But also I also, don't think that's actually the yeah i like you that's the problem there. Yeah. It's my key. It's the problem. Yeah. yeah Like i was even thinking in space quest six, like the scene with Nigel rancid where you have the moddy chips and you have to like swap out the churlish moddy for the burlesque moddy.
01:33:07
Speaker
And this is, I clearly have not played space. yeah soonn But just the idea is like, he's got a little like modification chip in his brain. Okay.
01:33:18
Speaker
That makes him churlish, uh, makes him grumpy and and surly and everything else. But you can swap that out for one essentially about changing labels and stuff that says burlesque instead, which turns him into like an, uh, you know, like it so all singing, all dancing, ah you know, review, ah sort of Michigan J frogs. Um, but it feels so tied to your understanding of the English language. And even then like an understanding of,
01:33:49
Speaker
adjectives that maybe even, know, they're very much SAT words. Interesting one to have in there. Yeah, it really is. Burlesque may be less so. Churlish is a little weird. you know i think the lot of kids learned what churlish meant when they played that game. Myself included. So this may be just a personal gripe. um yeah Then there are ones like yeah less of maybe a localization thing or a language-based thing, but like just straight-up esoteric. like and I've read about this. I haven't played Runaway, ah road adventure, but...
01:34:24
Speaker
and run away. Apparently there's a puzzle runaway road adventure and ah in runaway a road adventure. Thank you. um Where you have to run away. That's right.
01:34:35
Speaker
I know. It could be Del Shannon's runaway. Yeah. yeah ah
01:34:42
Speaker
um i don't know who that is or what that reference is that the person who's saying runaway okay time out let's see dell shannon run away yeah yeah there we are and that's it oh and as i walk along i wonder what went wrong yeah uh forgot that there's dell shannon clearly anyway i can't believe i knew that yeah but run away road adventure a telltale adventure That's the one.
01:35:12
Speaker
um Yes. Tales from the Runaway. um You put batteries in a freezer to recharge them at one point, which is just like basically old wives tale kind of stuff that is being treated as like concrete adventure game logic.
01:35:30
Speaker
Wow. There's a famous example of this in a beloved adventure game. Some would say one of the best adventure games. What's that?
01:35:41
Speaker
That'd be the ah ah ah summoning rain clouds by washing a car. Oh yeah. No, that's a good one too. tentacle Yes, absolutely. I mean, same kind concept. It's like, I mean, maybe you could call that moon logic, but then part me is like, well, that just depends on culturally the idea that like, Oh, isn't it unfortunate luck when it rains right after you wash your car? It seems like it always happens. What a bummer.
01:36:08
Speaker
Um, I don't know if that thought exists everywhere. or even universally here. It's just an odd, it's just a thing that you just don't think of all.
01:36:20
Speaker
i think for me, one of the other ones that, that, that bugs me is, and there was some of this in machinarium and, and maybe this is like you, you get a puzzle and then it's like, here's your reward that puzzle five more times.
01:36:37
Speaker
oh like it's just with variations of it yeah yeah yeah i've proven i can do this don't make me do it a hundred more times i um i i call that the witness that's what that whole game is is it's like you like this this puzzle now do it forever
01:36:59
Speaker
Is it Ben, is it wrong if I say i don't love the mime puzzle from that one? I also do not like that puzzle. I don't like when like walking is around the screen is the solution to a puzzling. I like using my icons. I like using my inventory. I like talking to people to solve stuff.
01:37:21
Speaker
When the solution is like how I steer my character solves a puzzle, I never see that coming. I'm never mentally prepared for that when I'm in adventure game mode. And I always miss those solutions. yeah and try there There are others. Why some other examples of that?
01:37:35
Speaker
mean, leading the goat in King's Quest 1, you know, but that's a little bit, that's more of a pathfinding problem that is a puzzle solution. But yeah, I don't i don't love that necessarily because it just slips past me. It's one that frustrates me. ah Puzzles where you need to die to solve them is no fun either. Less manly is built around basically an entire, like half a game that you basically play through and die.
01:38:01
Speaker
oh do you know this one? No, I've never played that. That might be a, a future u yeah i think you could stand less manly it's not like it's not a good game know you know that but it's also not deeply problematic in a way that would make it unstreamable um it's uh there's sort of this yeah moment at which late in the game you are trampled to death for reasons beyond your control okay and it turns out that there's no like real sense of why this happens you've done everything right up to this point earlier in the game you meet a fortune teller and out of nowhere you have to choose to tap into the game kiss fortune teller
01:38:51
Speaker
There's nothing that would suggest you to do this. She will then disappear. She'll like disappear. And a small lizard that's on her desk will stick out its tongue. And on its tongue is ah resurrection card.
01:39:04
Speaker
And then when you play all the way back to the end of the game, like another couple of hours or whatever, when you get to that scene where you're trampled to death and die, the resurrection card kicks in and you come back to life. How would you know? Does it tell you when you die there?
01:39:19
Speaker
that you need to it's like if only I kiss that fortune teller I can't remember what the hint is. I know our friend Richard Cobbett has written about this extensively as like the the worst, of but even, I think there's some hint. Otherwise, surely nobody would have ever figured this out. yeah But at the same time, it's still, if you don't have the right, so even if you do have saved games, you're going to replay a good chunk of the game to go back and redo that and make it right. That's gross.
01:39:47
Speaker
Anytime you have to die to learn the solution to a puzzle, that's not good. That's not good. I think that that's not good. I think that's good. and And that's not good. I think it's good.
01:39:58
Speaker
I'm so angry. Why are you defending Les Manley right now? I think it's good. Like Les Manley, a good game.
Social Media Mishaps and Etiquette
01:40:05
Speaker
Yeah. You know, because that's a funny, that's a funny name because Les and Manley, that's an unfortunate name for that, that gentleman.
01:40:15
Speaker
Like, I guess it's short for Lester. Well, it implies that. you know There's a certain quality quantity of manhood that hu that that men have, and ah he has less of it, which which makes him ah less desirable.
01:40:34
Speaker
um Oh, less man?
01:40:38
Speaker
Oh, okay. You see, because the thing is... He spells with one S. I think it's just short for Lester. The thing is is that the the car is at the drive-thru. And drive-through radio, normally if you go to drive-through radio, like, you know, you you don't really hear what they're saying in the 80s.
01:40:58
Speaker
Now they're crystal clear. They use Bose speakers yeah now. um yeah but Well, they're crystal clear in some places. In other places, their rally's clear. Yeah, yeah.
01:41:11
Speaker
Now that is an esoteric localized joke. Yeah, I was going to say, you're not allowed to complain... ah When you're referring to specific hot sauce names.
01:41:25
Speaker
All right. We're done here. We're done. i ah Do you have any anything else before I close the book? um You know, I'm just glad that there are people out there making these games and you know just do better.
01:41:39
Speaker
Just do better. Just do better. i I hate you. If you ever did this in any of these games, even a good version of it. and We're personal enemies and I hate you forever. Yeah, that's easy for you to say. You've never had to wear a cat hair mustache. That's true.
01:41:53
Speaker
There was, i i shared this on my, my stream. There was somebody like, you know, one of those, uh, like I saw this on blue sky the other day and it made me laugh so hard. you you didn't, uh, you, uh, you weren't watching that night. So, so this will be new to you, which was, I shared like one of those, uh,
01:42:14
Speaker
accounts on blue sky that, that shares, uh, like screenshots from, uh, like video games. Right. Yeah. they were Like kind of funny. And so this was a screenshot from the video game gender wars, um, like the nineties good start video game gender wars. And it's like, I think it was like a screenshot and it had like the male symbol on the ground or something. And it said men lose or something like that.
01:42:39
Speaker
You know that's funny. ah Easy, easy retweet. and advertisements for that one they're pretty uh pretty wild too oh i bet and um somebody replies to it goes ah gender wars that's the first uh game that i ever worked on and somebody replies with well did you ever see this and it's a youtube video of gender wars this terrible game that everyone forgot
01:43:10
Speaker
That's so mean. And I was just like, so rude I was just like, you're a piece of shit, dude. Like, it's like, oh, wow, this, this game. Wow. Someone's sharing this screenshot.
01:43:26
Speaker
You know, people are are kind of like getting a kick out of his seeing a screenshot from the very first video game I worked on from 1990-whatever. Well, you know what? That game's dog shit. Did you see this YouTube of this guy ah dragging his fucking balls over the the box?
01:43:44
Speaker
Did you see that? I'm sorry. I mean...
01:43:54
Speaker
i mean what's wrong with people then like you know and here's the thing is that i have a feeling that i i don't think that like and maybe i'm maybe i'm naive here is i don't think actually the intention of sharing that was to troll i think the intention was i want to reply to that and this is the one thing i know about the game
01:44:25
Speaker
What makes people feel the need? Like, what is it that makes you have to reply to something? I don't know, but a lot of those guys but yeah are, they just see something.
01:44:37
Speaker
and they It's, it's like, it's like being in a car with like a five-year-old or someone like a five-year-old that just says everything that they drive by. Yeah.
01:44:50
Speaker
fire department, McDonald's. Like it's just like, can I be completely honest with you? Yeah. I am my heart of hearts. Yeah. ah reply of guy.
01:45:02
Speaker
A reply You're ah a reply of guy. Oh, I was going to say, I'm a person that names. I'm, I'm, I'll just say, if I'm sitting in the backseat of a car, I just love to hear myself naming off.
01:45:15
Speaker
Yeah. Sign. It's exciting. Yeah. But I mean, I am a reply guy in my heart of hearts, which I know I shouldn't do. So I spend a lot of time on social media, tapping out replies to various posts.
01:45:31
Speaker
And then like once I've done that and gotten out my system, simply tapping cancel. So I can move on with my life. And it makes me feel better every time. I know that I don't need to like weigh in on things that I have nothing to contribute to.
01:45:44
Speaker
ah But it feels good sometimes just to type it out and then go ahead and cancel that post and not be a reply guy. I don't need to tell somebody, hey, gender wars, why don't you cram it up your ass?
01:46:00
Speaker
It's just like... what vague Why, why do you have what made you think that was an appropriate thing to say to someone? Were you raised in a goddamn barn?
01:46:11
Speaker
Like who, who, who taught you, who taught you how to socialize? And it's like, and I say, this is someone that has put my fucking foot in my mouth more times than I can fucking count. Yeah. But it's just like, God damn.
01:46:25
Speaker
Like, come on. If I'd been that developer, Like, I think I would have been tempted to respond to something like, I met my wife on that project. You know, just like, we don't have one more.
01:46:38
Speaker
throw out something to make that person feel awful. You guys is like but you know, it's like, but right yeah I really cared about the work I did on this. You know, sorry. I'm sorry your YouTube link hates it.
01:46:54
Speaker
I think Ginger Wars probably is terrible. I'll say it right now. I'm sure it's a bad game, but I'm and i'm also sure. But you also didn't type that out to this person. You didn't say, I'm sure this game you worked on is a bad game.
01:47:06
Speaker
i'm I'm also sure that the person that like, I'm sure they probably knew that too. Like, it's like yeah most people, and this isn't all people because it's like like, are aware. Like, it's like, I've worked on projects in the past where like, or, or on things where it's just like, oh this is, this
Creative Projects and AI Concerns
01:47:25
Speaker
is stupid. This isn't going to work.
01:47:26
Speaker
Like, or yeah like, this seems like it's going to be a problem, but you know, we got to get it out the door. you gotta get out the door yeah no i mean no this is the reality of creating anything so very few things leave the the door perfect except for really this episode i think yeah no this this episode is actually picture perfect picture
01:47:51
Speaker
perfect yeah it's like the sweetest chef yeah i feel like we definitely early on it it it's it's sweetest chefening Yeah, which is good because i feel like that's an impression almost everyone can do.
01:48:04
Speaker
And there's a there's like a level of ah egalitarianism to that. chance Do you have a Kermit? Oh, yeah, I've got a Kermit. ah you seeing like I was thinking like you seemed like you'd have a Kermit. Of course I got a Kermit. Come on.
01:48:17
Speaker
Yeah. um Remember how much fun it was when Google, like you can go to the language options and add Swedish chef on the options? Yeah. That was...
01:48:28
Speaker
That was when they were still not being evil. That was when Google was good. Yeah. Yeah. Now, if I search Swedish Chef, I will get, like, a page and a half of AI slop followed by, like, a link to a fandom wikia the bottom of the page. This is the first time it really violently happened to me in that, like, I was trying to...
01:48:49
Speaker
like reply, like in the group chat to something with like, just like kind of like, just pull an image like from Google image search and just drop it. And like,
01:49:02
Speaker
like 10%, maybe, maybe options. Yeah. ten fifteen percent of the image options in Google image search, I was looking for an image of two women speaking, ah like talking to each other with ah like a fan in front of them, right? Like okay like Victorian, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I searched that and I was like, yeah, because ah that would be a funny thing to reply in and our group chat at this moment.
01:49:29
Speaker
And as I said, like 10 to 15% of them were unsearched or obvious Gen AI images that just depressed me. would know it just had that they all looked like that fucking garbage.
01:49:44
Speaker
Yeah. The Adobe stock library is now full of generative AI stuff and there's a button to exclude it. There's also a button to only use generative AI stuff, which i would love to do. yeah Whoever has toggled that in human history. It's like, I exclusively want slot in this project I'm working on. I have a little switch. I have a little switch in my bathroom that makes it that I only have diarrhea when I go in there.
01:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's weird. It's a light switch that somehow makes the room even darker. Like I flip it down instead of up and somehow it makes a dark room even
Podcast Conclusion and Tease
01:50:18
Speaker
darker. It just gets pitch blacker and there. I don't know why I put that switch in. ah And it's right. And once it's that dark, you can't help but hit the diarrhea switch accidentally.
01:50:28
Speaker
So you can send us an email at questquestpodcast at gmail.com. Please rate and review. Give us... five stars baby and if you want unless the platform you're listening on allows more than five yeah yeah if if it's like a 10 star platform don't give us five yeah i yeah you know that would be funny if somebody made like a ah podcast platform that like go up past five and everybody's podcast is now fucked because anyway
01:51:05
Speaker
QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com ah ah Follow us on Twitch. um And join us next week where and Space Quest 4!
01:51:34
Speaker
Okay, I got it. Join us next week for Space Quest 4! All right. For real this time. Join us next week where No, go ahead, please. We play...
01:51:50
Speaker
hey for real this time join us next week where ah no go ahead please replay
01:52:02
Speaker
where We you talk about Ferber Warren Supergirl.