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Immortality
188 Plays23 days ago
For the podcast's first birthday, Ben & Jess consider Immortality.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
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Transcript
Exclusive Dance Content for Patreon Members
00:00:30
Speaker
Jess had a really good dance this time. You missed it. I know. You missed it. yeah Only the patrons will see that. If you're if you're a part of the Patreon, you'll get the the live video, all the TikTok dances I do while we're recording.
The Evolving Landscape of TikTok Dances
00:00:46
Speaker
Here's a, Jess, are TikTok dances still a thing?
00:00:52
Speaker
i mean, I'm the person to ask. I think you've come to the right person. yeah I'm throwing to my youth correspondent, Jess. I mean, i think yes, yes.
00:01:05
Speaker
But I think the barriers to entry are much higher now. Like I don't think you're going to get like 900,000 views with a sloppy Tiktok dance like you're going to need years of training.
00:01:17
Speaker
to do a tick tock dance nowadays. You gotta be Gene Kelly. You gotta be a real Gene Kelly, a Fred Astaire, a Ginger Rogers, um you know, a another dancer, ah you know, some fourth one.
00:01:37
Speaker
Man, there's there's this movie, The Young Girls of ah Rochefort. Oh. And it is this ah delightful French musical.
00:01:48
Speaker
And it's all, like it's it's like, it's largely, not entirely, but it's a lot of French actors. You're having a good time. You're seeing them. They're all in, like, these bright, like, it looks like uh it kind of looks like uh how the 60s and austin powers looked okay yeah like it's all candy colored and so it's like they probably when they were making austin powers they probably were like all right we want it to look like this And so it's those like you're you're really enjoying.
Celebrating 'The Young Girls of Rochefort'
00:02:18
Speaker
It's this very charming, and funny. Yeah, baby. bun Yeah, I'm sorry.
00:02:22
Speaker
Cute and funny ah French musical that has like this incredible dancing in it. And then you're you're watching, you're watching it. And then you see Gene Kelly show up and you're just like, oh, my God. It's like Godzilla just showed up.
00:02:38
Speaker
Like you just like stand up in your seat. You're just like, yes, Gene Kelly's here. He starts dunking on everybody. Oh, he just starts dancing in the street. you like or or as they say in France, ah ah Don La rue Don La Rue. Yeah. done and larry and And you're just like, he'll dance Don La Rue.
00:03:01
Speaker
Fuck. Fuck. This is so good. Oh, man. Like, you just see him. He turns on that that million dollar smile and then he just starts dancing and you're just like, holy shit. This is what movies are all about.
00:03:17
Speaker
And that's what Ben just experienced during our theme song. He saw the reason he brings this up as as his closest point of comparison to the to the excellent dance that I was doing.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, it was sort of like a Jersey Shore fist pump was what I was going for. not don't think I got there. Anyway, this is Quest Quest. The Adventure Game Podcast.
Meet the Hosts: Social Media & Introductions
00:03:38
Speaker
I am Ben, PS underscore Garrick on Twitch and very occasionally YouTube.
00:03:45
Speaker
And I am Jess, that's Decaf Jedi on all your favorite platforms. And Ben, I have a special message for you. All right. Happy birthday to the podcast. Yes! Yes!
00:03:59
Speaker
Happy birthday to the podcast. That's right, folks.
Podcast Milestone: One-Year Anniversary
00:04:08
Speaker
This is ah when this comes out. I believe the day after this comes out.
00:04:15
Speaker
Quest Quest is one year oh And 50 episodes. One for each week in a year. yeahri yeah Yeah, we did not miss a single Tuesday.
00:04:30
Speaker
it's pretty impressive. No, I mean, and you know what's, what's more impressive Ben is in preparation for today's episode, episode 50, I went back and listened to all previous 49 episodes. And you know what?
00:04:43
Speaker
There's not a clunker in there. Uh, not one, everyone gold, baby. This is, uh, you know, we were're were, we're, uh, we're, we're the, the nineties bulls right now of podcasting.
00:04:56
Speaker
Like only we're 50 peating right now.
00:05:04
Speaker
yeah that's right you hear a lot about 50 peets but that's where we're at you sometimes hear about adventures of pete and pete but that's only two peets uh you watch the adventures of pete and pete jess oh only very casually and is it possible we've talked about the adventures of pete i think we did i was about to launch into an anecdote that i've already told there you well that saves all of us time Yeah.
00:05:29
Speaker
Was it ah an anecdote that I said before we were recording one time? We'll never know. Yeah. Cause really our pre-recording spill is increasingly about the same length as our episodes, which are also getting longer.
00:05:41
Speaker
no no, no. Okay. The episodes generally have a baseline of 90 minutes and then sometimes they're an hour 50. Yeah. And occasional book corner.
00:05:54
Speaker
Like it's, it's, it's, it, it is not like a creeping thing. It's, it's just anyway. Uh, Jess, what did you have for dinner?
Nostalgic Comfort Foods: Chicken Pot Pie
00:06:03
Speaker
Oh, this is an important question. I'm so glad you you have a big loafer.
00:06:07
Speaker
I didn't have a big loafer, but I feel like it's in that same comfort food zone. Ben for dinner. I had homemade chicken pot pie.
00:06:17
Speaker
Let me tell you what, let me tell you about this chicken pot pie. It's not just chicken pot pie, Ben. The, uh, in lieu of like a traditional pie crust, we topped this thing with cheddar bay biscuits, the at home red lobster cheddar bay biscuits. yeah yeah And don't if you've ever sailed on the cheddar bay before.
00:06:38
Speaker
I, you know, ah i've i've I've sailed the the Cheddar Bay, I think once. I've only been to Red, Wed, Wobster. Wed, Wed, Wobster. I've only been to Wed, Wobster once. I'm only one year old. um yeah I have a Wed, Wobster.
00:06:59
Speaker
I have a little Wed, Wobster. Yeah, yeah, I know where you're going. but No, you got a wheel wed wagon. Yeah, no, I mean, the I mean, the reality is it's yeah the flavor of the Cheddar Bay is the flavor of sodium, which is just what I want on top of my pot pie. But it was delicious, man. There's nothing on a nice autumn day, a nice 85 degree autumn yeah day that warms your bones like a little bit of chicken pot pie.
00:07:26
Speaker
I I love i love a chicken pot pie. i haven't made one in a little bit, but I I'll go all like full pie. That's what we would normally do.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's all and this is sort of an experiment. This was a I think that's a totally crummy. Like obviously it was a success. I could like that. Oh, yeah. You can see the glow. Yeah, on my face. of Yeah, you're you're you're glowing you have the glow of the cheddar bay.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Sun kissed by the rays of the Cheddar Bay. i When I was a kid, loved the Boston Market chicken pot pie.
00:08:04
Speaker
That was one of my absolute favorite treats. who Now Boston Market is almost gone or completely gone. don't know. There's probably like one or two of this left.
Adventure Game Literature Discussion
00:08:15
Speaker
It seems like one of those things where it's like Quiznos isn't entirely gone, but it's pretty much gone. You know, they don't even have those gross little sandwich rats anymore. ah oh yeah i was like what the hell are you oh yeah we have a pepper bar guys yeah yeah yeah um well uh that sounds lovely what what have you i mean what have you been eating i mean yeah ben let's go to our traditional uh segment get a tune is this something i'm gonna have to dig into the uh the public joke or not the public the the royalty free uh music vault
00:08:48
Speaker
Possibly. i mean, this is now like, I mean, what'd you have for dinner? I mean, what what what are you not? I had a chicken tacos. I made some chicken tacos. We're, we're, we're talking ah like, so I have like ah just, just normal chopped up ah chicken breast ah with ah like some Aleppo of pepper.
00:09:10
Speaker
Oh, there's this Middle Eastern grocery here in Chicago that has this incredible and I want to be clear. It's called the Middle Eastern grocery.
00:09:21
Speaker
Like I'm not like being vague. um And ah they have ah this incredible collection of spices. And I'm always like and for a reasonable price, like not for your crazy spice price.
00:09:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I don't pay crazy spice pi price. Yeah. Yeah. um You know, like ah the fucking chome traders or whatever.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah they They would not be pleased at the cost of spice here. um But anyway. But then that I cooked that and then i ah added ah some like a decent salsa to it to it once like the chicken was cooked through and let that thicken.
00:10:09
Speaker
And then i just ah like just canned refried beans and avocado and, you know, the ah Mexican sour cream, like the thinner.
00:10:22
Speaker
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. And then. Oh, man. uh uh some of uh like uh i think it's a uh chihuahua uh cheese yeah yeah we talking uh flour tortillas corn tortillas oh we're talking we are talking uh corn tortillas made right here in the beautiful city of chicago oh there you go we're talking uh the chicago style tortilla yeah um like so the uh dish tortilla yeah there you it's el el milagro corn tortillas which are ah made right here in the the city and um at least i think so maybe they're in the burps i'm pretty sure they're they're made just here in the city though
00:11:11
Speaker
And you get like, it's there in like this little paper wrapper. And I think you get like a dozen for 69 sixty nine cent man, that's the right price.
00:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, and we have a place here called the tortilla factory. And they used to have like an elaborate tortilla making machine that like you could watch it like move tortillas around on conveyor belts like it was a real factory.
00:11:36
Speaker
And then they shut down that whole operation. And now I'm afraid the tortilla factory isn't fresh making my tortillas. And why call it the tortilla factory at that point. have you ever made a tortilla because it's pretty straightforward yeah yeah well i have a tortilla press but you know what i still kind of like el milagro little bit better one of my favorite stories uh years ago like uh gosh it's probably been 15 plus years ago my wife and i went on a vacation to san antonio And we went down to like their mercado ah to to shop around the stalls there.
00:12:09
Speaker
And we saw like this beautiful cast iron tortilla press ah there. Oh, yeah. And didn't have one at the time ah and just had to have it. But what you don't factor in is when you're doing a walking tour of the city of San Antonio.
00:12:24
Speaker
you're and You're like an hour one of what's like an eight hour walking tour of the city. it's really hard to carry around a cast iron tortilla press for an entire day like that. And it was like an albatross around my neck.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah. Especially because you did like wear it around your neck. Like you just opened it up. yeah Like wacky moments where i'd like to like put I squeezing my head in and stuff. I've got a headache kind of thing. Yeah. You know, there's this place ah here that I haven't been to in in many years. um Ruby's down in, I believe ah the neighborhood of Pilsen ah here in Chicago ah that I saw like that was the first place I ever went um where and when I went to them for the first time, it was like an outdoor stand.
00:13:14
Speaker
And now they're they're like a restaurant. um But ah like what it was is that you put in your order and then like you just see this guy like take like a scoop and then go into a scoop of like prepared masa. And then there go.
00:13:31
Speaker
toss it onto a griddle and then just press it down until like, and like, and then just flip it and like made the tortilla right in front of you and then just toss the cheese and the El Pasco and all that other shit.
00:13:45
Speaker
Some of the best fucking tacos I've ever had. God damn it. I'm getting in an Uber and I'm going down, down to Ruby's. Oh man. Probably close right now. And I wonder if I could Uber there. I bet by the time my Uber got there, it might be opening.
00:13:56
Speaker
um So that would actually work really well. Yeah. Anyway, that's what I've been eating. But you know what? Yeah. I was disturbed. I was disturbed while I was eating because I i i i heard the chirp and the scream of a new email.
00:14:15
Speaker
Wow. You can email us at questquestpodcast.com. At gmail.com.
00:14:23
Speaker
This email comes from our friend Yop. Dear Ben and Jess, I enjoyed listening to your post-show book ramblings. There you go You can't encourage us, folks, or we will keep doing this nonsense.
00:14:38
Speaker
Did you guys ever read a adventure game related books? Some great books I've read and enjoyed. So I've read this email. You haven't, Jess. Okay. I'm going to tell you I've read any of these books.
00:14:51
Speaker
But I think you have. So have you read Sean Mills' The Sierra Adventure? Yes, I have. It's quite good.
00:15:02
Speaker
I recommend This might be an interesting future is talking about like one one or more of some of these books because like I, you know, Sean Mills' book and the next one here has definitely been on my list to get to.
00:15:23
Speaker
Next book, Ken Williams. Not all fairy tales have happy endings, writing all of Sierra online. You've read that too, right? I have. I have thoughts on that one. I would love to podcast about it.
00:15:34
Speaker
Yeah. It's a, I can give some great insights into the history of Sierra. Unfortunately, he's not a great writer. Would you agree with that assessment? Wow. Well, I mean, I don't know if I would put Ken on blast like that, but... He's never going to let you on his boat, Jess.
00:15:50
Speaker
I mean, I know that's all. I want for us to have a live episode recorded on Ken's boat where we interview Ken and Roberta is like in the next room popping popcorn or just doing her own thing and not participating in the interview.
00:16:02
Speaker
It would be dream someday. I don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, next, this one I haven't heard about, this sounds interesting.
00:16:14
Speaker
Tony Werner, Revolution, The Quest for Game Development great Greatness, Interesting regarding the history of revolution software. So I believe that's a Broken Sword and Beneath the Sky.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. And those. A special focus on engine programming, as that is his forte. That sounds interesting. I have not heard of that book. Nick Montfort, Twisty Little Passages, a nice overview of the history of text-based adventures.
00:16:43
Speaker
I would yeah definitely be interested in that. Those are... Like... You know, we've talked on and off about Jimmy Mayer, the digital antiquarian.
00:16:56
Speaker
Some of his best stuff is writing about the history of Infocom and text adventures in general. Yes. Because, like, that is something am deeply passionate about.
00:17:10
Speaker
And so I have not read Nick Montfort's book, but I have read every, like, all of Jimmy's writing about the history of text adventures, which... Like his history of Infocom is pretty authoritative, but also like he writes about like Colossal Cave and like in its various iterations.
00:17:31
Speaker
And then also, oh, who is the guy that like also did like the picture text? Like, so kind of like the high res adventures that Sierra, like Roberta Williams did.
00:17:44
Speaker
There was guy like now I think he does like religious adventures, but he wrote about that guy. I forget. I forget who that guy is. Anyway, there are also some great non-adventure game related books on gaming.
00:17:57
Speaker
Have you read David Kushner's Master of Doom? yeah Yes. you That's supposed to be great. And that's also been on my list. I actually read it for the first time last year. Yeah. And it really holds up well as as a game history that was written at a time when you might have expected be a little bit more, I don't know, sort of banish in tone.
00:18:21
Speaker
It's a terrific book. It's really wonderful. also read, don't John Romero's memoir is on that list. That's the next one. Yeah, I also really enjoyed that. I highly recommend it. Good guy.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, as John Romero has evolved into gaming's kindly uncle. I love... The John Romero arc.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yes. So much. So much. I love the John Romero arc from like brash teenager, like at id to like hubristic,
00:18:59
Speaker
like, you know, humiliating downfall with Daikatana at Ion Storm. And then like, you know, this like late, late career, like elder statesman as just like this, like a guy who just seems nice. Like, I mean, I can't, I, you know, I've never met the man, but he just seems like, also seems to have like a kind of a good humor about himself. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
I mean, having interacted with him on social media, he is very tolerant of dumb fans asking him questions and things like that. So yeah, John Romero gets the Quest Quest seal of approval.
00:19:42
Speaker
Ron Gilbert, you're still on blast. The next one, this is also on my list because I am really. Jordan Mechner's diaries during the development of Karateka in Persia.
00:19:55
Speaker
He just put out Mechner, and by just, I mean, I think like a couple of years ago, like I think a graphic novel about his life, which is supposed really interesting.
00:20:08
Speaker
I'm really like... Jordan Mechner is like a really interesting figure too. have not really played that many of his games, but I like bought, even though I had no history with Karateka, the digital eclipse history of Karateka.
00:20:32
Speaker
And I think that is spectacular, even though I have no like investment in Karateka. Like I remember having heard of it and that was it.
00:20:44
Speaker
Like it's this very sweet interactive documentary about this young
00:20:54
Speaker
designer and his very cool dad who's extremely supportive. And it's just a very sweet little story. And then like, as you go through it and these interviews with Mechner and his father,
00:21:09
Speaker
Like it cuts in, like you can play like beta versions of Karateka and like other little like projects that like no one talks about anymore. Like this little arcade game we made for the Apple IIe, or the Apple II, I think.
00:21:25
Speaker
But yeah. And then this is another one that's on my list. This list is getting pretty fucking long. Sid Meier's Memoir, A Life in Computer Games. Have you read that? No, but I should.
00:21:36
Speaker
That one strikes. I wonder if that's good. You know? i hope it has some pro strats in it somewhere because I would like to improve as a Civ player.
00:21:48
Speaker
Because Sid Meier is someone that I really admire. And I think he's like, you know, like he's not the... That rhymed. I didn't intend it to. But like, you know, like he's not...
00:22:03
Speaker
like the Like the developer of Civ 7 is at Beach and like a whole bunch of people. What? Then why's his name in the title, then why is it sort under the S's on Steam? He's kind of like the, you know, kind of the design guru of the, of Firaxis.
00:22:22
Speaker
And like, he's just kind of a very interesting figure. But there's just part of me that's just like, you know, he can't be good at everything. I can't...
00:22:36
Speaker
Like, I would not be surprised if that memoir is a little bit of a snooze, but maybe I'm totally off here. There's just a little part of me that's just like,
00:22:53
Speaker
prick made the great covert action. going tell me you can make a memoir too? How about pirates? tried to say that with an exclamation point. You know, I love the fuck out of the, uh, like the, the pirates remake that came out.
00:23:08
Speaker
Oh yeah. Because I was, I was too young for like, by the time that I got to play the original pirates, it was kind of a pain in the ass to get running on my computer. So I never, I never really played the original pirates, but, uh, the, the remake that they did,
00:23:30
Speaker
which was a pretty simple game. Yeah, not a lot going on in that. I spent hours and hours. Oh, I did too. did such an addictive gameplay loop of like trying to advance your rank and doing dancing mini games.
00:23:47
Speaker
I got very good at the dancing mini game. I didn't want brag, but me too. Yeah. Yeah. like, because it's like there are three songs and they all have exactly the same like dance moves. So once you have those memorized, you just demolish the dancing game game. Like the first couple of times you do it, you're like, oh my God, this is the most hard thing that's ever been made. This is harder. The governor's daughter is like, this is amazing. You're like a regular Gene Kelly.
00:24:18
Speaker
But anyway, last. As bonus, Roberta Williams wrote a fictionalized book on the Irish famine and her ancestors' farewell to Tara. It's not great. A big disappointment to me.
00:24:29
Speaker
She tried to go the Ken Follett way, but failed. Keep up the good work! Thank you, Yap. That's a good. You I could add an adventure game book to the list that that I enjoyed quite a bit, one that's a little bit more academic in scope, but I think that people outside of academia would enjoy it too.
00:24:49
Speaker
ah What is your quest by Anastasia Salter ah that looks at... Yeah, adventure games in the context of sort of broader trends in electronic literature, starting with interactive fiction and running all the way through modern expressions.
00:25:05
Speaker
Anastasia is ah a big Sierra fan, I know, and just an adventure game fan in general, and a really terrific book. one of the One of the few, I think, that's tried to tackle this from a ah from an academic standpoint and writes extensively about fan culture around adventure games and has some really kind things to say about to about air friend Akral who worked with me oh yeah on some games and of course made her own King's Quest It Takes Two to Tangle and you fantastic fan game creator and yeah, she gets a pretty nice shout out in that book as well as someone who's sort of
00:25:43
Speaker
engaging with the adventure genre and some interesting intertextural and meta textural sorts of ways. So yeah. What is your quest by, ah professor Anastasia Salter?
00:25:55
Speaker
Um, I, i You know, I like I've referenced maybe like the main book I've read that has like that has adventure game like stuff and is ah hackers.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, even Levy or Levy Levy. um I'm not sure. I read it ages ago and need to it's a good no go back to feel like now I have a better appreciation of that history that I think I would enjoy the book a little more. I think ah reading about early Sierra is super fascinating.
00:26:25
Speaker
um Early Sierra is the wildest thing in the world. i And then like the other like game book writer. Have you ever read anything by Anna Anthropy? No.
00:26:36
Speaker
Like ah i she wrote this great book about ZZT. Yeah. Very first epic mega game before they closed forever.
00:26:47
Speaker
they They made that one game. And then and then like and then t Tim Sweeney was like, that's it for me. Nailed it. Got it in one. That's right. That's a great book.
00:27:00
Speaker
Anyway. um All right. But speaking of great books, what have you been playing?
00:27:09
Speaker
Oh man, Ben. So this week I took a little detour for reasons that we all need to delve too far into, but I played a little bit of the original Castlevania to prepare myself for this most October-y of seasons.
00:27:27
Speaker
And... You know, it's the most October-y time of the year. That's right.
00:27:37
Speaker
stand by what I thought of Castlevania in 1986, which is to say, i still don't care for it much because Simon Belmont doesn't jump good.
00:27:51
Speaker
Is it, you just don't think he's sexy enough. No, I mean, I've watched Captain N and he's very sexy in Captain N. But he doesn't jump good. Like Mario jumps good. Like he feels good when he jumps and he can change his direction slightly in midair.
00:28:12
Speaker
Luigi feels even better when he jumps. He's a good jumper. um You know, Battletoads are good jumpers. Double dragons aren't. Billy and Jimmy bad Here's the thing about the jump in Castlevania, because I kind of agree, but I think the thing is, is that what gets me about Castlevania is that like once you start to fall, you're oh yeah i like, fuck. That's what I hate about it, yeah.
00:28:43
Speaker
Like, that's it. Yeah, Metroid, she's a great jumper. Hard to beat. Rygar, terrible jumper. I found out in n NES games, you have either good jumpers or bad jumpers, and Simon Belmont, I'm sorry, is a bad jumper, and it just sort of spoils the game for me.
00:29:02
Speaker
Teenage Ninja Turtles in their original n NES game, bad jumpers. in The adaptation of the arcade game, good jumpers. Yeah. You know, I, the Castlevania games are games I more like appreciate. than Like I go back to them every now and again, I'll be like, maybe I'll become Castlevania guy.
00:29:21
Speaker
And then like, and then I'm like, no, I'm i'm not a Castlevania guy. You know, it's so funny. I've played Castlevania and then Castlevania 2 on the NES and have never touched the series again.
00:29:34
Speaker
And feel like that is... like such a poor representation of what Castlevania has grown to mean to gaming. Like never having touched Symphony of the Night or anything like that. i feel like all my Castlevania opinions are... Maybe that's our next first first play stream.
00:29:54
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I think that that would be unbearable. that You know that game is going to be the opposite of all the things that... to it's it's it's it's going to go terribly important.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. I mean, that is not going to be good. It's going to stress me out. It's going to not result in good gameplay. It's going to frustrate people who love the game. Everyone will love it when, ah ah like,
00:30:22
Speaker
Dracula or whatever. Alucard? Alucard or whatever. Yeah, like says, what is a man? Everyone will be like, Yeah, they do love the hell on that the thing that we've heard? Is that in the first 10 minutes or so?
00:30:33
Speaker
I think that's pretty early. I think that happens. Oh, good! Here's the thing, is that...
00:30:39
Speaker
I think everybody knows it because it's a tough game. I actually haven't played it either. This is my theory. Someone confirm or in a nice way. If you're part of the Belmont lineage and you're listening, please let us know.
00:30:52
Speaker
have a feeling that everybody knows that because it's just like, because most people didn't make it further or a lot of people. So it's like, there you have this, what is a man? Like right there at the top.
00:31:04
Speaker
Anyway. Yeah. What have you been playing, Ben? You know what? I joined everybody else. I've been playing Hades 2. Oh, how's Hades 2? Loving it.
00:31:14
Speaker
It's I and so it is funny. Like, so when we record this, Hades came out, I think exactly a week ago around that much time.
00:31:26
Speaker
I like I've been like, I unfortunately ah haven't had a ton of like free video game time. And so I'm still at a woeful four hours Hades 2. Like, believe me, I would have much more time in Hades 2 if I could.
00:31:44
Speaker
But what's great about Hades 2 is that I loved the original Hades. I had such a good time playing Hades to the point where I forced myself to Like I said, I'm done playing. Like I was, I was like, all right, like there are more things for me to do in this game. Like I made it, I beat the game and then I made it to like the, the like I beat the first game and then I started to do all the challenge.
00:32:18
Speaker
That's where I was at. And I didn't make it, like, super far on those. But, you know, anyway. But, like, I was like, there's no more, like, story or anything. Or if there is, it's very small.
00:32:33
Speaker
<unk>ve i've I've gotten enough out of this, but I... but Like this game has enough of a grip on me that if I let it, I'll just play this forever.
00:32:45
Speaker
Oh, wow. And so I was just like, I'm i'm putting this game down. I'm giving it up. Yeah, you see, I've never played Hades. I only have the loosest grasp on what it is. Right.
00:32:58
Speaker
Like this is totally a mystery to me. um And i I'll explain in in a little bit. wait My point is, though, is that... So that happened.
00:33:09
Speaker
Let's see. Let me open up Steam here. I believe the last time i played the original Hades was like four years ago.
00:33:22
Speaker
Okay. um ah Let's see here. my Hades 1.
00:33:33
Speaker
December 27th, 2021. Okay.
00:33:36
Speaker
Was the last time. And that's a game that's all about like movement and like, you know, the reason that like Hades is so popular is like, well, one of many reasons is that feels really good.
00:33:52
Speaker
And so when I picked up Hades 2, I was like, oh man, it's been like four years. I don't know. Like, am I going to? And I also know, like they changed up, like the the new protagonist of Hades too. Like she has slightly like ah a different move set, moves kind of differently. And there's kind of different strategy to how you play.
00:34:16
Speaker
She's a different type of, you know, character. But, and like the first couple runs I did of it, I was like, I don't know.
00:34:27
Speaker
It's just not, I don't know. And then like, and then just something like deep in the back of my brain, like just woke up and it's like, oh, we're playing Hades again. And then I walked in.
00:34:40
Speaker
Then I walked in. Then I was just like, all right. like Like, it's just like, okay. Like just running into the room and just killing all the bad guys and run into the next room and then kill all the bad guys there.
00:34:52
Speaker
Hades, so Jess is like,
00:34:59
Speaker
Uh, like kind of like this, uh, like fun na narrative. Like, I don't know what, if it is classified as like a roguelike or something like that. That seems to be the description I see most commonly of it.
00:35:12
Speaker
Which is probably why I haven't played it. Yeah, what I'm going to say about it, because what I think the, the, the trick to Hades and Hades 2 is that Number one, both of them were in early access for a while and he used early access well. Like the reason that they both feel good, like they have good game feel, is because of like they they used early access to get like a massive amount of like player feedback on on controls. And it doesn't feel like they took bad feedback, you know, like crappy nerd feedback.
00:35:53
Speaker
but Anyway. Good nerd feedback. But, uh, uh, like it has like incredible style and really fun writing. Um, and I think the trick of of Hades is that, uh, it expects you to die and expects you to lose. And it kind of gives you like a nice little drip of narrative is you die and then you go back to the story hub where like you run around and you talk to people and they usually have something new to tell you and maybe there's a little extra something that you can get to help you out uh for the next uh run and so like the game is really good at like it starts hard and it is hard but it like kind of
00:36:40
Speaker
Like, like, even if like, if you're a really good player, you probably get ah much further. And I'm not a great Hades player, to be clear. But it like it just gives you like just enough little stuff. Like every time to kind of keep tugging you along.
00:36:57
Speaker
Gotcha. And that's why it's so popular in my like, or or one of the reasons like it's also that like it's a bunch of sexy characters and everybody is probably like, you know, writing fan fiction about them.
00:37:09
Speaker
You have to say, like, I think I saw like cosplay photos of Hades before even knew what Hades was. i am ri I'm now looking. It's like, Ben, should I buy Hades one for $6.24? Yeah.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's ah that's a no-lose proposition. And here's what I'll i'll say to you, Jess, is that you might have the same experience that I have with Hades one. And you have a gamepad, right? Because do not play with a keyboard.
00:37:40
Speaker
Okay. But I bought Hades and I was like, I know what type of game this is. And I had also played the developers, like some of their other games, like they did Bastion.
00:37:53
Speaker
Bastion, Transistor. Yeah, yeah. And looked at them and I'm like, this is nice. Not for me. Like, I get it. I get why everybody's crazy about these, but not for me.
00:38:04
Speaker
Anyway, yeah, I played Hades and I looked at it and I had the exact same reaction. I was like, I get why everybody's nuts about this, but it's not for me.
00:38:16
Speaker
But then it was just like one of those things where like a couple months later, i was on a trip and I had my laptop with me and I was like, you know what?
00:38:27
Speaker
I'm going to give Hades another try. And it was just one of those things where like that unlocked for me. And then I just did not stop playing. Wow.
00:38:38
Speaker
Well, Ben, I'm going to purchase this live on air. Wow. Right now it's happening. Please read. So what's your credit card number? Credit card number is going to be six.
00:38:51
Speaker
Uh-huh. Expiration date. Uh-huh. You've got one of the first credit card. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's a Donner's Club. Oh, all right. Anyway, that's why I've been playing. i Jess, did you know that it is
00:39:17
Speaker
Wow. And you know, what I'm excited about for October this year is we are kicking things off with a really fantastic game. One that I think really captures a lot of spirit of this Halloween season.
00:39:31
Speaker
Folks, we are going to talking about Space Quest for Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers. It's finally, that's that's the classic spooky sounding sound effects.
00:39:43
Speaker
Oh, no wait space quest 4 got canceled yeah we're not we're not going to talk about space quest 4 i thought last week we said at the end of the podcast we were going to talk about space quest 4 at the end of the podcast it's like a little joke oh i was serious like i have a lot of notes spent well you're gonna have to toss those notes because we're going to talk about something that we have said at the end of a podcast that we are going to talk about uh
00:40:11
Speaker
But we said we'd talk about next time. ah This is next time. A couple next times ahead. Removed. We are talking about the marvelous adventure game from 2022, Immortality.
00:40:26
Speaker
immortality Yes, the Sam Barlow FMV creepy, fascinating, beautifully made adventure game. This is one that we've actually talked about. i think we talked about a little bit in our FMV episode.
00:40:43
Speaker
We talked about a little bit in our games for grownups episode. Yeah. And you know what? You have to listen to us talk about it again. Yeah. I mean, ah so so setting some grand rules ah here, if, if, if you're listening. So right now, when we're talking like this exact moment, we're going to talk about like kind of basics of immortality, some, some stuff, like if you're unfamiliar with a game ah that ah like to, to just kind of discuss what it is, but this ah for, I think maybe the first time we'll,
00:41:18
Speaker
We'll give you a warning and say, like, if you haven't played the game, ah stop here. Yeah, we'll let you know when it's time to bail out if you do want to avoid serious spoilers. But we'll well definitely give you the heads up beforehand. This is a tough game to, I think, really discuss right and dig into what makes it so fascinating without spoiling ah so some key points along the way. But we will give you the heads up if you want stay unspoiled.
00:41:43
Speaker
We'll start out with just some general comments about this game. um uh yeah like so so this is right now the the segment of non-spoilers so immortality is uh the third uh of like know if it's like a series because it's not like sam barlow's the third game he's made some other games he worked on that's right he made some uh uh did you ever play i think i've talked about this on here have you ever played aisle i was gonna ask you play that uh and i forgot to do you have i talked about this do you know aisle think i don't know if we've talked about it before at some point i looked it up and now i've already forgotten what it's all about is it text adventure right so aisle is a text adventure uh that uh he made in
00:42:36
Speaker
in Let's see here. and And I mean, you can play this for free. That's 1999. It ki came out the same year ah as ah Two of Everything, one of the films from Immortality.
00:42:48
Speaker
um It is a a text adventure. You can play it on your browser for free. I recommend it. this It requires absolutely no knowledge of how to play a text adventure well or anything like that. It is a one-move text adventure.
00:43:04
Speaker
And my thought about Isle is that it is kind of like, and, and I haven't, I mean, maybe he has ah ah like some other stuff before this or, or, or something like I'm not a ah like fully up on his, his total, you know, everything he's made, but like Isle to me feels like it holds a couple like the the the seed of what would become her story which would become like telling lies then ultimately immortality which is to say that
00:43:49
Speaker
In Aisle, and I apologize if I've talked about this on a previous podcast, but Aisle is a game where ah you are, like, it it writes this description of, like, you're standing in an aisle of a grocery store, and, like, you see this, and you see that, and there's a person in front of you ah with a cart, and it reminds you of your trip to Rome or something like that.
00:44:15
Speaker
And like it gives you like this, this description of ah standing in a grocery store aisle and ah you have one move and that's it.
00:44:26
Speaker
And then the game's over. Um, and, uh, so it's like, you could say look, you know, gnocchi. And then it gives you like this long description of, you know, it reminds you of like this wonderful trip that you took once.
00:44:41
Speaker
Uh, and then like, you could say, talk to person with like grocery, like the talk to other like woman in aisle or something like that. And then like, it gives you that whole story and that's the end of the game.
00:44:53
Speaker
Or like you could like eat or something. And the puzzle of it is not... Like, you know, you have to open up a locked door. you have to get past the troll that is blocking the bridge.
00:45:09
Speaker
The puzzle of it is finding all of the possible things that you can do in the aisle. Which is very much, yeah, as you said, we can see threads of that that then run through these later games like her story and telling lies and immortality where you have...
00:45:27
Speaker
stories that are being told out of sequence where a lot of the goal of the game is to piece together all of what's happening here as much as it is simply to reach the end of the game.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah. I could definitely see how that would, uh, you could draw a through line, uh, that connects all of those. And I think it's like, I think it's a lot of fun. It's like a a cute little, uh, thing, but I think it's like well written and very interesting.
00:45:52
Speaker
Um, and, uh, so like, uh, you know, worth checking out. Um, immortality uh,
00:46:03
Speaker
I mean, i don't know. Where do you start? This game's insane. This game's insane. I mean, the mechanics of it, like her story and telling lies before it. What are the mechanics of ah her story? and Yeah.
00:46:15
Speaker
These are games that they're full motion video games. And the mechanics of those games at some level is you have a bunch of short video sequences that that are telling a story.
00:46:30
Speaker
And you access these through searching through databases in both games that will, with keywords, give you access to certain video clips. And as you watch these video clips out of sequence and out of order, you're kind of piecing together the story of what happened, trying to solve some sort of mystery or understanding how...
00:46:51
Speaker
some sort of event occurred. And in both of these games, it's kind of fascinating. Again, the goal in both her story and, uh, ah and telling lies is to sort of manipulate this database to come, know, you hear a word or someone mentions another character in a video clip and you're like, going to go search for that now. And so, yeah that person just said Derek, what if I put Derek into this database? Will there be other pieces of video about Derek that will fill in more of this context for who Derek is and why he matters to the story?
00:47:24
Speaker
Or will it just be a rabbit hole that goes nowhere? Does it ultimately, you know like, is it a red herring? And sorting through this and searching this database and slowly piecing together the answers to a mystery.
00:47:36
Speaker
That's the mechanic of both her story and telling lies. And then i worked't immortality, i think extrapolates from this database concept, one step sort of backwards from or away from that. to yeah How does it differ there? Immortality ah ah changes it up. Like first,
00:47:57
Speaker
Like, you know, one wonders if, like, it's like, all right, well, you have Telling Lies and you have ah Her Story and they're these both, like, pretty well-received little indies, but, like, they're they're keyboard. Like, you need to type in or, yeah ah you know, like, I mean, Her Story only on,
00:48:20
Speaker
ah like let's see here was that only on uh it was on phones and windows yeah um and that makes sense because you at least need a virtual keyboard to play that right um and so uh uh that is ah like so immortality now like takes a look at it and goes like okay And actually telling lies came out for the switch, the PlayStation and the Xbox, uh, but, um, uh, and does that use like a fake keyboard? i haven't played telling lies.
00:48:58
Speaker
It has um a system that you can rely a little bit more, if I recall, on maybe like clicking on some transcripts of the videos and things like that to to search a word. So it's still easier probably to type it in.
00:49:13
Speaker
But there was a way to interface with it, I think, without as much typing. um But Immortality ah is like very... like obviously made with the thought of it's like, okay, how do how do I, ah like, how do I take this kind of idea and make it like console safe?
00:49:37
Speaker
Um, and more organic. Yeah. Yeah. And one would think like, oh no, like does this dumb down? It's actually no. Uh, so yeah. So the way that, uh, immortality works is that,
00:49:52
Speaker
you have ah like a ah couple a little clips. the The premise of the game is that you have, ah like there's a a movieola,
00:50:06
Speaker
that has all the the footage from the unreleased the three unreleased films of ah this actor, ah Marissa Marcel.
00:50:17
Speaker
um And i she... ah like but But we have all these... like all the ah the the completed narrative of all three, though, it's going to be like, sometimes you have rehearsals and sometimes it's like, al crison but it's little clips and scenes and maybe some like, you know, interviews and other stuff.
00:50:45
Speaker
ah But you start out with just like a couple clips and the way that you navigate from one clip to another clip and discover new stuff, as opposed to typing in Derek or whatever.
00:50:58
Speaker
is that you pause the movie like you're, you know, watching ah like a DVD, and then just you have a cursor which you use with your gamepad, and ah you click on anything, ah like any object or person,
00:51:21
Speaker
on ah the screen and then it will attempt to find and most of the find time it does find someone though there are matching image ah a matching image Yeah.
00:51:35
Speaker
So like if you see a candle in a scene, Bernie in the background, and you pause the scene and click on that candle, it will try to find another video clip in this database that features a candle and take you to that, which probably the mystery doesn't involve candles all that much. So that's sort of a just a fun little road to go down to see all the strange things in the background it can pick up on.
00:52:02
Speaker
But you know, you see a character maybe for the first time, someone you don't know and don't have a context for that just maybe pops into a conversation for a second, you pause and click on them.
00:52:13
Speaker
And maybe you go down an entirely new storyline path as you learn more about that character. Yeah. And the thing is, is that so you are, again, you're you're cutting through three different movies and like stuff around those movies yeah she's a she's a film actor who has made three movies none of which ever get released if i'm not mistaken all of these are all all three have never been released
00:52:45
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. One of them is like, what would you call it? Like, Oh yeah. I'll, I'll run through the, the first one is, is from 1968. It is a movie called Ambrosio, ah which is kind of this like,
00:53:02
Speaker
ah Gothic. All three of them are kind of erotic thrillers, which is ah like very interesting in like the sense of it's like this game came out in 2022, which is like when the whole like discussion about it's like why isn't there eroticism in movies anymore like was really kind of like that whole discourse was kind of peaking and then this video game about like three different erotic movies uh like came out which is really interesting anyway ah like you know great timing um
00:53:41
Speaker
ah So the first one, 1968, it's called Ambrosio. It's actually based on a real book. Did you know this? You told me this yeah recently, and I'm fascinated by it. It's based on an actual book called The Monk of Romance, which is 1796 novel. And it was like...
00:53:58
Speaker
ah novel ah and a was like i it It was published anonymously at the time, apparently, because upon publication, the novel was scandalous.
00:54:16
Speaker
Readers were shocked by sexually explicit content, the themes of rape and incest, leading it to be arguably the most controversial Gothic novel of the 18th century. wow Yeah. I mean, and the version of it we see filmed here in immortality.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, it's full of religious iconography, ah challenging adult themes, all of these sorts of things. The game has a trigger warning right up top. Like it it has like, there's a content warning and it's like, here's a list of everything that might upset you. So please, if any of this upsets you, do not. And it's most things.
00:54:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's Ambrosio and we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about, uh, that film because I, I, I, I find all three of these movies and as like movie dork.
00:55:04
Speaker
uh like i i find them very fascinating because they're all interesting kind of pastiches and like kind of style parodies which are really cool the second one is um called minsky this is the one i loved like this this one was minsky was your movie yeah minsky was it's 72 i think two i think Yeah. Yeah. 1970, 72, somewhere in there.
00:55:29
Speaker
And it's more of like a cop drama. It's a gritty New York cop drama. Yeah. um Like, you know, this this clean. Yeah.
00:55:41
Speaker
like this uh this avant-garde artist is is uh killed and like it's an exploitation movie is what it is murder in the art world though is such a great starting point and really ties into sort of the themes of this uh of this game overall yeah all these do a beautiful job of uh i mean they chose the right movies to integrate into telling this bigger story they're trying to tell oh it looks like it was 70 anyway um ah So like, yeah, it's this like, you know, this detective, ah he he goes into like New York City's avant garde ah art.
00:56:19
Speaker
And ah like he slowly... uh like you know like goes to all these you know seamy and sexy clubs and in all of that like it's it's one of those uh of which there were a lot of in the 70s uh and then the final movie like from 1999 so we skip ahead 30 years so we skip ahead thirty years to 99 mysteriously unaged yeah mysteriously unaged um and uh it's called a ah movie called uh two of everything which is like what would you like that's kind of a um it does feel like this is a movie that would be starring michael douglas
00:57:06
Speaker
ah Right. I mean, I could see that. Like what's the, here she plays a pop star who has like a Prince and the Popper kind of body double situation. Like, right. That's the setup there.
00:57:19
Speaker
And she has her body double step in and sort of take over her career while she needs a break. ah This, ah this actor, Marissa is Marissa Marcell is playing both roles of the actor and her double.
00:57:34
Speaker
And it's sort of exploring these dual identities in some fun ways. And what looks like a pretty cheesy kind of terrible movie, um but in a perfect 1999 sort of way. it All three of those movies are are are very... They they they capture...
00:57:56
Speaker
uh, vibes really well. Yeah. Like the, the two of everything, uh, is, is such a like, is such a nineties, like, uh, you know, i it, it really has the feel of those movies. I feel like it really, ah as I said,
00:58:24
Speaker
I don't know. Like if, if you know what I'm talking about, it does feel like a movie that Michael Douglas would play like a shitty man and like, and what you know, fatal attraction or like the game or basic instinct or like a perfect murder, like all this shit like that he was in Like it, it, it just feels like one of those And when you say it feels like this, I think this is a good, like point to mention.
00:58:56
Speaker
These films are shot on period appropriate film stock with period appropriate looking. ah i mean, what at least it's edited to like, yeah, I don't think they're actually shot on that film. So I walk that back.
00:59:12
Speaker
yeah They certainly are trying to capture the aesthetics yeah of each of these eras. So when you're playing the game from 1968, it it has the 68 has like they they definitely mess around with like the colors and how color grading definitely yeah yeah like the 68 like has that kind of i don't know if you would say it's like technicolor uh but it has yeah a very lush um kind of ah color palette.
00:59:44
Speaker
Yeah. And then it gives way to more of like a desaturated look for the 1970s gritty cop drama. And then we kind of go back to maybe...
00:59:55
Speaker
The fluorescent light, like i would, I would say the nineties one is the most desaturated. I would say yeah mean i know all the seventies has that kind of cheaper seventies, like, because I think it's low budget, but yeah but maybe shot on, on video. yeah Oh, that's not on video. Absolutely not. okay yeah But, um, it, it has like that orange and beige.
01:00:20
Speaker
Yeah. Like, you know, kind of puke green look. Yeah. Um, and And I think we're about to enter ah like some of the... but But before we get there, I think what's really amazing about this game is like before we you know get into like what this game's about and its themes and blah, blah, blah, is that there is so much fucking chutzpah.
01:00:48
Speaker
in this game the there are so many actors in sets in costumes like you watch her story and it's like you know it's it's this one woman in a room yeah you give me if there's a guitar Yeah, give me a testimony, basically. Yeah, I mean, it is.
01:01:08
Speaker
And Telling Lies is more ambitious than that. There are a lot more characters and a few locations, but it's all set in the modern day. People are just wearing what could easily be their own clothes or wardrobe could probably be shopped at, you know, Marshall's pretty easily for that one, TJ Maxx.
01:01:27
Speaker
But you get to immortality and yeah i mean these are elaborate sets these are period costumes these are large casts that we're dealing with um the like and uh the performances yeah immortality are shockingly good like yeah like really really really the the woman who plays ah marissa marcel uh man engage um
01:02:04
Speaker
is she has to do so much yes in the the game. um She has to play, like, she has, like, we see her as herself, um and then we, like, see her as herself across, like, three different time periods, and and see her playing roles yeah three different films yeah we see her act multiple different roles we see her like you know like it is such a like it it is such a difficult performance she's asked to do so much
01:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. And this is also a game that like deals with very different, like with adult situations. And so it's like, there's a lot of like nudity and stuff like this. And it's just like, she like, and, and the rest of the cast, honestly, too. Like, I don't think there was anyone in it that I thought gave a bad performance, but her in particular.
01:03:06
Speaker
Yeah. um And we can name some more specific as yeah we get a little later in this. In, like a subgenre, you know, of FMV games where we've been trying to claim like since the mid 1990s that we are now making interactive movies.
01:03:25
Speaker
But those interactive movies are oftentimes let down by the quality of their script, the quality of the technology they have to draw you know, a lack of any sort of sense of cinematography or anything else that you would associate with ah with a film.
01:03:41
Speaker
I think this comes as close to really earning that title of an interactive movie of anything I've ever played. it um What is i also interesting is that like the game plays with... ah So like the game is nonlinear in the same way that ah those two other games that we've been talking about are.
01:04:10
Speaker
But what's extra interesting about that is that... So it's like so you're jumping across... you know, time and space going it across three different movies and like associated video with each of the movies.
01:04:26
Speaker
But also the thing is, is that movies are not shot in sequence. Wait a second. and Yeah. And, and so the game also plays with that concept.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yes. Because the thing is, is that you, as you're assembling like all of these clips on a like a timeline ah You can order them by a narrative order of the film, or you can order them as ah in order of when it was shot.
01:05:03
Speaker
And the narrative order will give you like the story of the movie. And the ah like as it's shot order will give it you the story of like backstage drama.
01:05:18
Speaker
yeah And, but also you're not watching either of these in order. You are hopping across all of them in completely disconnected order.
01:05:30
Speaker
In ways you can't even anticipate always where you're going to hop to next. And so the, like, so you're, and i think I've mentioned this when was talking about her story before, like I had a friend who played her story and she like had a notebook, ah like, and was taking, you know, a ton of notes. So it's like, you could be taking notes or you could be, you know, keeping track of it in your head and trying to like piece it together.
01:05:56
Speaker
But I, it, I found just an enormous amount of pleasure in ah like, just kind of, like you know like watching a scene from one of the movies and being like wait what the wait what's going on here and then like finding the clip uh from like two scenes ago that establishes why her character is doing this other thing and it's like yes oh that's why and then it's like oh and then okay so that means like oh all right that means this
01:06:31
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's, it's a very, very, like, it's a very entertaining feeling. Like, it's, it's a lot of fun. And it's, you know, you're doing it all in your head, like, because yeah the gameplay is just clicking around.
01:06:47
Speaker
Yeah. And it's I mean, one of the things we talked about before, just talking about adventure games in general, like one of the things that really jazzes you up in adventure game or really gets like that little dopamine hit is that feeling of discovery.
01:07:01
Speaker
Like when an adventure game is delivering the feeling of discovery in general, I think that's one of the best things this genre can do. And this is a game that gives you ah steady drip of discovery. yeah Like it feels like at every turn you are you know, uncovering a tiny bit of this mystery of what happened to Marissa Marcel and her career along the way. Maybe we're edging up now to, is this the point? There's one more, there's one more thing I want to hit, uh, before,
01:07:32
Speaker
before we kick everybody that hasn't played it or that doesn't give a shit about spoilers. Now we'll say, yeah who knows what if you leave, who knows what's waiting in the back half of this episode?
01:07:45
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there if you do say, I don't want the spoilers, there could be a full book corner at the end of this episode. We might bring Grayson on to talk about immortality. I mean, it's hard. Yeah.
01:07:56
Speaker
It's hard to say what could happen. You know, just to to to preempt a book quarter, I'm about like 30, 40 pages ah from the end of ah ah Jack Holmes and his friend by Edmund White.
01:08:09
Speaker
Great book. Just about done. Wow, there you I'm like in the home stretch. Very excited to see how it ends. Well, hopefully about the end of the episode, you will have finished it. Yeah, I am reading it while podcasting. yeah Only when I'm talking, though. I mean, in Ben's defense, he's fully locked in when he's talking. Right.
01:08:24
Speaker
yeah yeah Yeah. During the important parts. And I hate how you like, just hold the book up though. Like as you're like, that's what really like feels rude to me. You don't even just like look down at the book. You like hold it in front of the camera.
01:08:35
Speaker
I hold it up. Like I'm a beetle in hard days, night trying to avoid a crowd. Have you ever told you about my old colleague who used to come to?
01:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, my old colleague in Liverpool. and We were in the Beatles together. Anyway. I had a colleague who used to come to our department meetings. It's like a department of seven people.
01:08:58
Speaker
And she was kind of like at constant war with all of her coworkers. And with sitting meetings, she had a book that was titled something like how to work with stupid people.
01:09:11
Speaker
And she would hold this up over her face. you out meetingating us this That's so funny. Yeah. Just like a quick thing to do. It really is. She's just like, read it through the entire meeting. Like, and you just like, be it all right, well, there you go We won't, we won't talk to Cheryl.
01:09:25
Speaker
I wish I fucking had tenure. God damn it. Like it's the best thing ever. It's the best thing ever. It's like, you just be the most unpleasant person on the planet. I just kicked back with my little, uh, and Barry, uh, and Bernie handheld. I sit there as play games with my feet up on the desk, uh, during meetings. Why not?
01:09:45
Speaker
Um, but no, so, i so one, one thing I wanted to talk a little bit about is and I know this isn't really your, your, your thing, uh, Jess, I don't think so anyway. Um, is that I, I found Googling around this, the, the people that made the game, like, because, you know, we're talking a lot about Sam Barlow, but there, there were, there are, I believe four credited writers, uh, for this game.
01:10:13
Speaker
Um, Sam, one of them had worked on telling lies previously. i know. And, uh, Amelia gray, uh, Alan Scott and, ah Barry Gifford and Barry Gifter, uh, Gifford is really exciting. Actually, like getting Barry Gifford is, ah a massive, like to me, a huge coup because yeah this is Kathy Lee Gifford and Frank Gifford's son. That's right.
01:10:39
Speaker
Uh, Barry Gifford is, ah like he is, he's written like a shitload of books. Um, Um, and, uh, he also, ah wrote, um, like, uh, he co-wrote, uh, the David Lynch film, uh, Lost Highway.
01:11:01
Speaker
Oh, wow. And he also... This tracks, this tracks. Yes. He also wrote ah the a novel ah that ah one of my favorite Dave Lynch films ah is based off of, which is ah he wrote ah Wild at Heart, ah which I think is just a marvelous movie.
01:11:22
Speaker
um And so it's actually like they that must have been pretty fucking cool that they, that they could get like that. They, they got Barry Gifford who's considerably like, you know, if you could considerably older than the other three people working on it, I believe like he's, he's in his seventies.
01:11:43
Speaker
Um, but like, he's, you know, just written some really wonderful things. Um, ah But ah the a studio that that made it put up on Letterboxd the movie like review social media page um a playlist of ah the movies that were an inspiration ah to Immortality. and
01:12:14
Speaker
o And um like... I, that was like, as again, as like, something of a, uh, a movie dork.
01:12:26
Speaker
Like I, I certainly have friends who are considerably who would look at this list of movies and say, I've seen all of these. Yeah. ah I've only seen, ah like I would say maybe like 10, uh, 10 of these or so.
01:12:41
Speaker
Um, but like when I was playing immortality, I was like, Oh my God, like this is like, you know, ah wow. This is it's, it's, it's giving Antonioni. You know what I love on this list that I would have never thought of as a as a point of comparison. But now that I'm looking at it, it makes perfect sense.
01:12:59
Speaker
I love that the bodyguard. Yep. Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston is on there. It's like it makes a lot of sense, given what makes sense. It is perfect. Like that is one that I could have.
01:13:10
Speaker
I would have never pulled myself. And now that see it, it's like, of course. Yes. Like, oh, this is, this fascinating. it's a Yeah. And you could just Google like letterboxed, uh, inspirations, uh, for, for immortality.
01:13:24
Speaker
Ernest goes to jail. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, I don't remember like that sequence where Marissa is chewing on the end of a pen and it explodes. That's right. That's right.
01:13:35
Speaker
Um,
01:13:43
Speaker
But, like iron ah like, there are, if if you're um a movie dork, i it ah it has a lot of wonderful treats for you. it's I've seen, like, ah it has, what's interesting to me is looking at this playlist, it has...
01:14:02
Speaker
um Like a lot of people ah say, it's like, wow, this this game is like has some ah some Lynch in it. David Lynch. yeah And and i want to... i want to i This is teeing me up for a little bit of a rant here. Uh-oh. Classic Ben rant.
01:14:23
Speaker
This is a Grayson pet peeve that has become a Ben pet peeve. Mm-hmm. Which is that a lot of people call shit Lynchian when they just mean it's kind of weird.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. There's a very specific... there There is a very specific strangeness and construction to how David Lynch did things.
01:14:48
Speaker
Not everything that's kind of weird or kind of dreamy is like a David Lynch thing. You see a weird little doll, it's not Lynchian. Yeah, you see, I've only seen the elephant man, I think, of his filmography. So anything that diverges too much from that, I would never call Lynchian.
01:15:07
Speaker
I mean, The Elephant Man is a remarkably good movie. yeah I mean, I think I saw it circa 1980, so I was probably like a small child. I um i re-watched The Elephant Man very recently since, ah you know, ah ah David Lynch recently passed. And so I re-watched ah The Elephant Man and a couple of his other movies recently. The movie is incredible.
01:15:31
Speaker
um But ah ah the three of his on here... i there's one there's one movie of his that I have not seen and there's part of me that is like do you do I think we might have talked about this too like sometimes i don't finish stuff like you know I might not finish a show or I might not see everything was always like the idea that there's something else you know mm-hmm So there's one movie of his I haven't seen. I've seen everything else, um which is I haven't seen Lost Highway. And I'm going to watch Lost Highway, which Barry Gifford co-wrote.
01:16:03
Speaker
um But on here is Fire Walk With Me, ah the Twin Peaks movie, which absolutely. um And ah Inland Empire, which is very obvious ah because Inland Empire, ah like what?
01:16:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:25
Speaker
uh, like kind of the, everything that's happening to, ah Laura Dern is, uh, in Inland Empire, you could, you could say like, yeah, I, you know, I kind of see, i could kind of see that happening.
01:16:38
Speaker
Um, you Inland Empire though is pretty simple. It's about a woman in trouble. Um, but, uh, like it, some of these references on here as like a black narcissist by Powell and Pressburger, you like, you could see that in, yeah um,
01:16:56
Speaker
Oh, what's a Ambrosio? Blow Up. ah Like I mentioned Antonioni. That's all over ah Minsky. um like cruising that's all over cruising's a really fun movie clute that's also all over this is I mean i don't know don't know Videodrome makes perfect sense I haven't seen Videodrome I got a only know of it I haven't watched it but mean yeah it it is right in there with some of the themes this one's engaged with now this is a fascinating list and I mean it should tell you at at some level that uh this uh this game may uh mind freak you a little bit it may chris angel you might find yourself ah bit chris angle angled i'm not gonna retake that mind fruit yeah he might be mind broken by the time the like froked right in the mind uh but all right let's uh
01:17:57
Speaker
All right. If you have not. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um When the spoilers.
01:18:18
Speaker
Nope, nope. Come on, come on. No, still not spoiling.
01:18:31
Speaker
All right, I guess no spoilers. Okay, spoilers. Yeah. It turns out she was a ghost the whole time. Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, so...
01:18:43
Speaker
gotcha gotcha now so Yeah, so for those of you who stuck around, ah then you already know. There's also ah like this a supernatural element where if you play ah the the movie backwards, like ah Beatles songs and heavy metal, ah you get ah secret evil messages.
01:19:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's not entirely inaccurate. That sounds like a bit, but yeah like i was I started to say that seriously and then I turned it into a bit, but I also meant that seriously.
01:19:20
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, that is part of the mechanic. One of the things that as you're watching these video clips, you can do, um, is scrub through them, uh, in reverse. Uh, occasionally you'll see like a weird little visual glitch of some sort that tells you maybe there's something odd about this, uh,
01:19:36
Speaker
I never saw a glitch. it would oh how Oh, that's if you're rewinding. play a sound effect in your game pad. That's right. if you Yeah, I'd rumble you a little bit. Yeah. If you don't play it with a game, like a lot of people have said, if you don't play it with a game pad, it's a lot harder.
01:19:53
Speaker
yeah and as you walk backwards through these you'll see some like weird glitchiness uh as you scrub back through it and that is your clue that you need to take a little closer look at this bit of film and as you do a whole i mean we've already got the narrative of these films and then you have the narrative of the behind the scenes backstage stuff that's happening around these films And you unveil now a third layer of narrative involving immortal, supernatural creatures.
01:20:27
Speaker
These two ah creatures ah called the one and the other one. who are like these, these like beings that are kind of like fast. Well, the one is fascinated by humanity and art and like sex.
01:20:49
Speaker
And um the other one is disgusted by. Yeah. He's just kind of like, yeah and this is what's really interesting to me about the game. and this is how I approach this kind of stuff.
01:21:05
Speaker
Not, not like, is that, so especially with the one and the other one narrative, that you also piece together. Mm-hmm.
01:21:19
Speaker
Um, which, yeah, it's this other layer and there's already so many fucking layers. That's right. Yeah. But it's all layers. It's like the lasagna of video games. Yeah. It's a real lasagna of a game.
01:21:31
Speaker
Um, five stars. And, uh, but, uh, uh, the, you It's like tiramisu of video games. Yeah. Is, is that like my approach if I'm watching or reading, if I'm interacting with something that is like very metaphorical, which this is like a lot of this is like very metaphorical.
01:22:00
Speaker
I stopped really caring that much about the plot. And I care a lot more about theme and vibes and like what it is like trying to signal and elicit from you.
01:22:16
Speaker
Yes. And, and I want to be clear that like, of course, like I Googled and I read people's like Reddit, whatever. And it's like, Oh, she represents this and he represents this. And this is like, here's the whole story. And this, and you know what, the, all that checks out, like it all kind of clicks into place.
01:22:33
Speaker
You can find that story in ah immortality, i that's not something I really care about, honestly. Yeah. so I care about ah like that it is that immortality is like taken up close when it's the story of Marissa, this story of like how, like kind of domineering, uh, uh, creators across time, like kind of use and abuse, um, uh, to, to create things.
01:23:16
Speaker
And then like you zoom out and you have like these kind of like beings that like, they'll, Like the one references like phones, like, ah like, ah like phones as we have them today.
01:23:32
Speaker
Like, it's like, you could, you know, pull up a ah satellite view of any desert. And she says that on footage from the 60s. So she's kind of outside of time.
01:23:44
Speaker
Yeah, she. She's eternal. Yeah. She's like a Q. They're both Qs. It doesn't say they're Qs, but I think it's implied. and they Yeah. They're Qs.
01:23:54
Speaker
They're just yeah like, yeah because here's the thing. We just think that all Qs are like, you know, John Delancey. Yeah. But there's a lot of other Qs out there and we've met some of them. They're also annoying, but yeah like these two Qs are, are kind of like their, their whole Q shit is a little different.
01:24:11
Speaker
Anyway. But, um like, taken from, like, their point of view, it's, like, you know, that this story of, like, fascination with art and, like, you know, disgust with art and, like, doubt and stuff like that.
01:24:31
Speaker
And we, like, sort of the the vibe I got from it out these supernatural creatures is, like, I read them almost like as maybe angels or something along the line of like a biblical angel. I mean, they they hint that they've been around since the Garden of Eden at one point. Yes, they are They are there for the crucifixion. Yes. ah Which I think that the one that the supernatural references like, yeah, having been there.
01:25:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And like almost sees that as like its own form of almost performance art, it sounds like and yeah, this idea they've been going through history, she's fascinated with the human experience and fascinated this idea of capturing sort of an immortality is the as the name of like of the game would suggest.
01:25:20
Speaker
And, and like these two, like, ah like beings like kind of manipulate and possess and like kind of ah like, and I've read because this is an important distinction. And I want to know what your thought is here.
01:25:40
Speaker
um And this is maybe even going a layer deeper of spoilers. um ah So if you've only played like the first 20 minutes, maybe this is too much. yeah Anyway, but do you think, Jess, because I've seen people say online when I was Googling around, it's like,
01:25:57
Speaker
you know uh the one possessed uh marissa and like that's that's uh like because the one will will speak it's like i was there she'll be talking as like she is marissa and sometimes like in the like when it subverts the scene um like you'll see her standing in for marissa but like doing it in a different way or being like standing up to like a shitty director um Do you believe that she is totally puppeting ah Marissa or do you believe that she is in there with her?
01:26:32
Speaker
Because I think there's still some Marissa there. Yeah, that I think so agree too. um Because like, I don't, I don't think the game is nearly as interesting.
01:26:43
Speaker
if it's just if it's a vessel just that like she's like puppeted yeah this this this body who like you know i you if you could dig into the story and find like that she's even like older than she appears like she was you know, like from the like, like born in the 30s or something. Yeah, that's right. And still making films in the 90s looking like a young woman. ah But you know this is fascinating to me because then it just like adds so many layers of
01:27:16
Speaker
of identity that layer onto this, both for the character of Marissa, as well as, you know, Manning Gage, who portrays her. I mean, you have on the one hand, you have like some sort of real Marissa.
01:27:28
Speaker
Then you have the Marissa who is a professional in the film and entertainment industry. Then you have all the characters that Marissa's playing, including playing a body double of herself at one point by the time we reached the two of everything.
01:27:41
Speaker
Plus, there's this level of identity that she is at some level, you know, ah vessel for this being the one who you know, mean just again, it peels back so many different aspects of this complex identity.
01:27:57
Speaker
You know ah what movie is very much like that? What's that? Inland Empire. Oh, it's a it's a very tough thing. I don't think you'd like it, Jess. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, no, mean, it's ah this and then yeah, I mean, again, you know, you have man engaged who's portraying Marissa at these various points in her career in character out of character.
01:28:17
Speaker
her personal relationships or professional relationships. And then, ah you also have, uh, a different actor who is, uh, who is playing, uh, the one what's the name there. i don't have that in front of me at the moment. Um, the woman who plays, uh, the one is, Charlotte, uh, Mullen and her performance is also,
01:28:43
Speaker
unbelievably captivating and like upsetting in that sort of like I was playing this at night in a dark room kind of occasionally makes you want to glance over your shoulder to make sure she isn't in the room with you kind of vibes which like it really creeped me out a few times because she speaks she breaks the fourth wall I mean she's like literally breaking the fourth wall she's figured I mean she is and commenting on what is happening in this footage while also speaking directly to you, the player, in a way that is very unnerving and that just stuck with me. I think that's the biggest takeaway.
01:29:24
Speaker
Before i even had time to reflect on what any of this was trying to say, i think that unnerving feeling in a very good way was my like most immediate emotional reaction to this. Yeah. um It is like, it's so unnerving in her performance. Like she has like this very steely glare.
01:29:47
Speaker
Yes. That like that she employs. And
Impactful Female Performances in Gaming
01:29:52
Speaker
I don't know. Like, like, you know, she just has like this look that she just gives the camera and it's, it's a very like, you know, it's just, it's just, she has ah very remarkable presence on the camera.
01:30:10
Speaker
Um, yeah and it's like, she's looking through you. Yeah. Like that song I recorded with my bandmates, the Beatles. Very I'm looking through you. Yeah. There you go. Um, yeah.
01:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, it is. it is just a tremendous ah performance um that I just, yeah, that's that like her and Gage as Marissa Marcel, like both ah really ah just smash this like, like everybody else's performances are very good.
01:30:48
Speaker
um especially i sure feel like there's ah the character Carl Greenwood who plays like the detective in the cop movie and he's like plays like this like actor who like realizes that things are getting worse and worse for him ah yes like you just kind of see him like just kind of ah i just kind of get more and more uncomfortable as he realizes like the situation that he's in um but uh but you're right I mean both of the female leads in this just knock it out of the park and it's good they do because so much of whether the game works or not is riding almost entirely on those performances right if they if they don't pull this off
01:31:43
Speaker
it is ah strange little game that maybe doesn't land quite with the same impact. The fact that they are nailing this. and And again, the kind of performance you simply don't expect to see in a video game.
01:31:58
Speaker
You know, quite frankly, like, you know, we know the quality of acting in a lot of FMVs and this game and really all of Sam Barlow's FMV games that we aren't seeing that B-movie feel necessarily. you're you're not goingnna You're not going to look at it like you might look at a FMV game from the 90s and go, oh, it's charming.
01:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. You're not going to be charmed. You're going to be like unnerved and it's going to make you feel things like, ah you know.
Thematic Exploration: 'Immortality' and 'Ambrosio'
01:32:30
Speaker
like That's right. Yeah. In a way that, you know, Muppet Treasure Island never could.
01:32:40
Speaker
The game or the film? uh the game uh the film can make you feel things uh the the game just isn't up to the task yeah you know uh there's something better that's such a ah heartbreaking song that little boy wants something better it's right there doesn't who to i mean yeah yeah just like this i mean immortality is right the title and that's what the game's all about um yeah i mean you know there's just so much more to like You know, one of my favorite little, like, I was really fascinated um by Ambrosio, ah the the first movie, because...
01:33:20
Speaker
here Here's the question. You said that you you like you enjoyed Minsky the most, and I get it. I think that's like the most pulply accessible. It's just kind of a fun name. For a rube like me, it's exactly what I look like. I'm not i'm not saying that. I'm just saying like it's it's the most... like straightforwardly enjoyable film yeah the no i mean and i think i just love like the idea of how a 1970s cop thriller yeah would treat the avant-garde art world of the 19 like to me that's a fun juxtaposition because like i'm fascinated by the you know uh the art world of new york in the 1970s and seeing that through the eyes of uh you know a dumb cop who doesn't have any idea what's going on around him uh they're inspired because uh uh the the director who he's kind of ah he's a jerk oh yeah the directors there are two directors in this movie uh arthur fisher and and um uh sam durek and those guys are just so loathsome they're just such yes blimey assholes uh yeah
01:34:27
Speaker
yeah
01:34:30
Speaker
there's such fucking pricks um and but he's friends with or at least like acquaintances with uh Andy Warhol and yeah like That's a fun... They couldn't help themselves.
01:34:47
Speaker
There's one scene where there's an actor giving very light Andy Warhol impression. They don't give him many lines, and he's crossing his arms, and he's got the sunglasses and the big blonde hair. He's got the wig. Just kind of Andy Warhol, and he's just like, oh, well. Just a little...
01:35:09
Speaker
you know i They couldn't help themselves. Is there anyone else that's like real in this? don't remember. Andy Warhol might be the only like actual, like ah historical figure in this other than ah sexy Satan.
01:35:26
Speaker
yeah Unless the one is in fact real. Oh yeah. Well, the one is to imply at several points in the in game. Yeah. So yeah, maybe, maybe the one also.
01:35:37
Speaker
Oh, Arthur Fisher, the first shitty, like, so yeah i was saying like Ambrosio, I find fascinating because it's like, It's this very Baroque... Like, the the idea of making Ambrosio is that it's directed by this guy, Arthur Fisher, and he's an American director, and they're shooting it in Italy, and the reason they're shooting it in Italy is so they could, you know, make it, like, an erotic thriller.
01:36:06
Speaker
A little cornier. A ton of nudity. Yeah. um ah And... it's It's really funny because it's like, that's not something that Alfred Hitchcock ever did.
01:36:21
Speaker
But
Director Inspirations: Arthur Fisher and Hitchcock
01:36:22
Speaker
Fisher is very like, clearly, like, he's like two thirds Hitchcock and then like a bunch of other smaller percentages yeah of references to other their directors. Yeah, he is Hitchcock coded like because he looks like it visually. Yeah, that's right. He looks yeah like Alfred. He has the same like the same hairline and the same build and like the age that people think of.
01:36:49
Speaker
Like everyone thinks of like the Alfred Hitchcock hour like Hitchcock. ah Like he looks like that. Yeah. The need Hitchcock was only like 30 at the time during that. That's just how people looked back then.
01:37:03
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, if he stepped into a tracing of his own profile, yeah, it wouldn't surprise you. He like, and it's like Hitchcock.
01:37:14
Speaker
you know, and memorably had that incredible ah British act, like that really fun, like kind of yeah British will, um, where, uh, this guy's an American, but he's the exact same type of like lecherous creep.
01:37:29
Speaker
um Yes. Yes. Like, like not on this list. I'm actually looking here and I don't think on this letterbox list, um,
01:37:42
Speaker
that a Hitchcock movie is on, on this. I would say probably of any of them, like, because yeah, the Ambrosio is not like any Hitchcock movie. No, that's right. I wouldn't say, yeah, what I know of Hitchcock, that doesn't feel like his vibe at all. If there's anything, because like the, the, the point of,
01:38:03
Speaker
Ambrosio is that like, it's, it's this director and he's consciously making like kind of a ah little more out there kind of arty film. ah which Hitchcock only made like kind of one movie like that, which was Vertigo and it didn't do well.
01:38:21
Speaker
ah ah So he like never did that again. Like he tried to be a little more commercial after that. um And i so like, this is like, well, I guess if if Hitchcock tried to make an erotic character,
01:38:38
Speaker
ah like, you know, this is, you know, because yeah, like it's, it's clear because you'd think that maybe on here it would have ah the birds and then it's like the birds ah parentheses, like special features, the making of.
01:38:54
Speaker
you know yes yeah that that feels like the inspiration please see you know uh 42 minute documentary on disc two yeah like it the birds please at least read a wikipedia ah page about tippy hedron you know yeah yeah like yeah Like, he's just this slimy, ah like, the way that he talks to Marissa, who is, I believe, think she's supposed to be, like, 17. Yeah.
01:39:24
Speaker
yeah ah and And, like, and he's, like, very... She's an ingenue. He's very creepy to her. Yeah, absolutely. Extremely. And...
01:39:35
Speaker
um Yeah, I don't know. I like he's I think he's a really like that the writing and his portrayal and like the way that like he he behaves.
01:39:46
Speaker
I just found really fascinating. Like there's a lot of stuff that kind of ties into the themes, but also just like kind of operates independently as like, ah oh, this is an interesting guy. Like this is an interesting character.
01:40:02
Speaker
Like my favorite character, Eddie, ah the gay in Minsky. hey
Replayability and Unique Story Experiences
01:40:08
Speaker
that's my favorite character he's cute little gay guy there you go uh quest quest podcast at gmail i'm the guy that checks those emails so you know reach out um eddie if you're out there but uh yeah
01:40:27
Speaker
but uh but yeah um uh like i don't know if there there is so much and and i like a thing I like about it, and this is kind of what I was getting to before is that it it leaves a fair amount, and like kind of open for you. Yes. um And, you know, I haven't 100% of this. Maybe it doesn't, maybe it has everything.
01:40:56
Speaker
um But yeah, I'm going to say probably in your first playthrough, i think most people are probably not going to get every piece of this. No. Unless they are using some sort of guide or something like that to, to make sure they hit every single hotspot to see every clip. Yeah. I mean, for me, i don't remember. Does this one give you a percentage of how much of the, I don't, I don't think it does, but there are telling lies dead. And I think i saw like,
01:41:24
Speaker
maybe right at 50% of what the total clips there were at the end of it. And, you know, there were like, I went on to read plot summaries. There were whole threads I missed out on in my playthrough of Telling Lies. And I kind of love that about these games.
01:41:38
Speaker
Like I, before ah this podcast, like a friend and I were talking about immortality and she's like, oh, you have to watch this video. It will really goes into it. So she sent me like this YouTube video that I watched ah ah before this.
01:41:53
Speaker
They're like kind of felt like i was like, Oh, yeah, yeah I was kind of wondering about that. Like, and I saw so many clips in it that I hadn't seen my playthrough. I was just like, Oh, my God, like, Oh, my God, I miss this. I miss this. I miss this. Yeah, here's so I mean, most people don't 100%. I'm looking at the steam achievements, right?
01:42:15
Speaker
yeah There are Steam achievements for ah getting every ah piece of ah two of everything. That's at 9.2%. Minsky is 8.9%. Ambrosio is 8.8%. So essentially all about the same.
01:42:31
Speaker
And then every piece of footage is 7.9%. So that's another percentage down. And then finally... ah hidden achievement. So super spoiler. If you don't like being boiler spoiled on hidden achievements, that' the, the, uh, saw all subverted, uh, footage 4.6.
01:42:53
Speaker
four point six Yeah. So most people are not getting this complete story. You know, on the one hand, I guess there's an argument to me. i That's cool for replayability. If you want to go back and revisit this, you could probably find bits you didn't see. For me, actually kind of like it in a different context.
01:43:12
Speaker
I like that I got a version of immortality that maybe wasn't completely bespoke for me, but I got my version of it and got to walk away with the parts of the story I got.
01:43:25
Speaker
And the parts I missed would just have to be little mysteries for me that I may never know all the answers to. And I kind of find that satisfying about Sam Barlow's games. I don't feel the need to 100% these or get every little bit. I kind of like having the version of It's like,
01:43:41
Speaker
yeah when i walked away from this when walked away from telling lies i walked away from her story i had my version of this game that was open to my interpretation of what i just experienced and i i like that about like the b is running credits on all three of these games is like you get them at like halfway or 60 percenters you know somewhere like and that you know it's the game saying to you it's like there's more but like you've done enough and Yeah, that's right.
Emotional Impact and Memorable Gameplay
01:44:11
Speaker
Because all these eventually have a trigger that you have reached some milestone of understanding what's going on, but sort of advances you to the end. you
01:44:20
Speaker
You've managed to back your way into, even if you're just randomly clicking, the piece of footage that puts at least some of the pieces together for you, at which point the game says, yep, you did it. Good job. but yeah it's like that's enough like you can keep going and and we'd love it if you did because this was a lot of fucking work but oh my god this was a lot of work but like jesus christ like we yeah the weak budget alone was the budget of her story they put man and gauge in a lot of fucking wigs um and anyway wigs these are great games i is this gonna go in the hall of fame
01:44:57
Speaker
bend this is huge what's you read off what's currently in the hall of fame uh i think we added uh uh crossbow longbow uh yeah uh it's called in short form did we did we add anything else i thought we had something else as part of that discussion uh you know what readers actively added some of the ones that we've already done episodes of so i think i threw in hypnospace Yeah.
01:45:29
Speaker
I think immortality for me is up there. Yeah. Immortality. I'm going to add to the the quest quest cannon. Yeah. Because i mean, for me, in terms of like modern adventure games, they've really stuck with Norco. i think noco and noca Of course, Norco.
01:45:44
Speaker
Of course, Norco. Another game that that really stuck with me after I walked away from it, in part because of its weirdness and in part because of the fact that you really just engaged with some fascinating themes along the way. I didn't sleep well last night because I was up late playing immortality. And then I got to the end and it kind of, know, really unsettled me.
01:46:04
Speaker
And then like, I was just like, all right, well, I guess I'm just going to have to sit with these feelings all night. Great. Thanks, Sam. ah streamed, uh, immortality a couple of years back as my first playthrough.
01:46:16
Speaker
And I absolutely had nightmares about it every time after I ended playing it. Like the one really creeped me out. I cannot, in like a wonderful way, in a way that like you want to be creeped out by ah slightly scary piece of media, right? Like, I mean, it's not like,
01:46:35
Speaker
gory or gross kind of creep you out but I mean definitely it it kind of for me got under my skin and are in a really wonderful way so yeah I thought way too much about the one after I finished playing this game yeah I don't know I this could be a three-hour podcast but you know what It's not going to be. We're doing it. It's three hours, baby. All right. We're just getting started.
01:46:58
Speaker
Anyway, I think i think I've set it up, though. I feel I've said my piece. This game kicks ass. ah Check it out. It does. Yeah. It's fantastic. you i think that yeah I think between Ben and that you have. Ben and me.
01:47:12
Speaker
ah that you have a be the mean and mean between the two of us i think you kind have two very different entry points in the sense that ben is definitely a film nerd and there's a level at which i mean clearly there are parts about this you appreciate that i as someone who's you know uh a philistine in these areas would not uh would not pick up on but I mean, this is still very accessible and and very fascinating. If nothing else, like, you know, that vibe of, wow, I'm actually watching three different movies made in three different decades as I play out this game is, is pretty fascinating, even to even to a layman like me.
01:47:58
Speaker
Want rewatch Inland Empire?
01:48:02
Speaker
You should, you know, Ben, that'd be a great thing for you to do this weekend. I don't know have time. It's a long movie. But yeah, what are you going on this weekend? ah
Reflecting on the Podcast Journey
01:48:13
Speaker
I'm going to a cast party for like that improv show that I was talking about. Oh, man.
01:48:18
Speaker
Yeah. Are you sure that you are not currently a vessel for the one? Oh, I'm definitely a vessel for the one and very boring one. Like if, if when, when they make the immortality about my life and people are like scrubbing backwards through episodes of quest quest. ah Yeah. they're They're like, it's, it's just, they're going to see like footage of the one, like just sitting at my computer every time and being like, I was so bored. Yeah.
01:48:51
Speaker
That's the entirety of the scene. Yeah. And then it just runs. Do you, Jesse, you want to know what's embarrassing is how long it took me to figure out. And by how long, I mean, like literally I was close to the end of the game before I could figure, I figured out that because I, uh, that you, uh, can rewind in the subverted, ah footage by, uh, uh, pushing the forward.
01:49:14
Speaker
is because you discovered it but by rewinding. So you push forward and it rewinds. And I didn't yeah figure that out until like right at the end. I was just like, oh, well, it's because it's like the weird footage. Of course you can't rewind it.
01:49:26
Speaker
I'd watch it all ah the clip all the way through and then I would hit rewind and it wouldn't do anything. And I was just like, oh, well, yeah, of course it's weird. I don't know if i ever discovered that. Yeah. i just assumed weird rules applied.
01:49:39
Speaker
Yeah. That's what I thought. I thought there were weird rules, but there were weird rules. Uh, weird rules. Yeah. Well, we are wolves.
01:49:49
Speaker
Anyway. Um, uh, this was quest quest, the adventure game podcast. Thank you for ah joining us for Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast, rate and review the show. It does help people find it.
01:50:01
Speaker
um yeah Thank you for sticking with us for a year. That's right. I mean, we have such big plans ah for for the next year. Who knows where this podcast could go?
01:50:16
Speaker
ah and ah All food podcast. ah Almost certainly. coming up yeah sooner or later i mean really that's where we're getting most of our feedback these days is how much people enjoy hearing us talk about what we ate for dinner we hear very little back about adventure games really and is i mean that's not entirely not true and we open up like discord when we open up our discord ah like on tuesday morning warning there's always like a discussion of like about big loafer jack
01:50:47
Speaker
That's right. Yeah, like honestly, like the main feedback we get on every episode, and this is something that we're trying to incorporate into like how we make new ones is simply, I shouldn't listen to this podcast on empty stomach, right? That seems to be the most common feedback we get.
01:51:03
Speaker
And you know what? If you went to Big Loafer, you'd never have to walk around with an empty stomach. Yeah. You work at Big Loafer. ah You never work a day in your life. That's what they say. That's right. You teach a man to loaf.
01:51:15
Speaker
He'll never be big again. Now, you can send us an email at questquestpodcast at gmail.company.
01:51:27
Speaker
Yes. Calm. ah And you can join us next week when we record our live commentary as Jess and i watch Inland Empire together. And, you know, you can sync it up so we all watch it together. What fun.
01:51:44
Speaker
In Space Quest 4.