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7 | The Long Game (S1E7)
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In this episode we cover The Long Game, a middling episode that makes a strange attempt at its message. We discuss the episode's world-building and what we wished could have happened for the story to reach its fullest potential.
--- Find the show here ---
- Website: MeYouAndDoctorWho.carrd.co
- Patreon: Patreon.com/meyouanddoctorwho
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- Twitter: X.com/MeYouAndDW
- TikTok: Tiktok.com/@meyouanddoctorwho
- Discord: https://discord.gg/jkZ63FrcP8
--- Credits ---
- Creators, hosts, & illustrators: Julia C. and Hailey Dorritie
- Editing: Julia C.
- Social Media: Hailey Dorritie
- Music: Half.Cool
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Transcript
Intrigue about Doctor Who Episode with Simon Pegg
00:00:18
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome to me, you, and Doctor Who. Oh my gosh. I am... i am intrigued by this episode we're going to watch because we just finished watching the, um, what is it called? The the bumper. And i haven't- um I swear to god I've only watched this episode once and it was like back when I was in middle school.
00:00:42
Speaker
I only remember the ending of it and it's a very iconic ending. Well, I don't know if it was iconic. it was very memorable. I completely forgot Simon Pegg was in this.
Role Comparisons and Humorous Speculations
00:00:52
Speaker
If I may ask, what are you what did you think of the bumper?
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm very curious to see who this editor character is. We were making jokes getting on. Mars made a joke like ah when people ask what I do for the podcast, I am the editor and I said like, oh, can't wait. I'm the editor. can't wait to meet the villain called social media manager.
00:01:12
Speaker
we gotta wait We gotta wait a few seasons for that one. yeah Here's what i remember, actually. Because I remember that this that the guy from the last episode, um I remember him being there. I completely forgot he was from the last episode. like I thought they met this guy on the planet they're going to, and then he hung around with them like a typical side character, you know?
00:01:33
Speaker
um completely forgot he tags along, so he's like a... Can you imagine if becomes he becomes a long-term companion that we just have to stick with for the rest
Discussion on Episode Contributors
00:01:41
Speaker
of the season? This hitchhiking groupie. Well, we're gonna watch this freeloader and Rose do their thing.
00:01:49
Speaker
this This episode was written by Russell T. Davies. I told i didn't know he wrote this episode. thought this was gonna be some rando writer. Directed by Brian Grant. I don't know if we've seen an episode directed by Brian Grant.
00:02:03
Speaker
and it is produced by Phil Collinson, who is a familiar name. I think he's produced, like, most, if not all, the episodes we've watched so
Sci-Fi Depth and AI Predictions
00:02:12
Speaker
far. Definitely a familiar name. i mean, I can't think of anything else. This episode was not very memorable to me, and I hope it was, like... I think one thing I will say is that when I was looking at the trivia for the end of the episode, um I guess one thing I should warn you about, Hayley, it seems very sci-fi heavy. That's all right.
00:02:30
Speaker
Listen... The sci-fi is there, but that is a sacrifice that I am willing to make. Yeah. Like it seems to be less ah personal relationships and more like, look at this scary technology, bleh.
00:02:44
Speaker
No, God forbid. mean, we saw their brain. We saw their brain out. Isn't that crazy, Hailey? What the future will come to one day? Yeah, isn't it crazy that one day we're going to have ai that writes all our college papers for us and people won't know how to read?
00:02:58
Speaker
oh God, kill me now.
Mixed Feelings and Episode's Message Execution
00:03:00
Speaker
Take take me through me at the doctor. Take me back. Take me back. I want to go back to 2004. All right. Well, if that's all we got for the intro, then I guess we got to head into this episode whether we want to or not.
00:03:15
Speaker
No. Take me back to Charles Dickens. you have You have to be like SpongeBob. Like, I want to live. want to go to bed. right. We'll see you on the other side. who Bye bye.
00:03:31
Speaker
Trigger warnings for this episode include minor gore slash body horror.
00:03:37
Speaker
Welcome back everyone. we We took a very extra long break because I think we're talking about anything but the episode. We talked about a lot of things and we didn't record because, well, I guess I recorded on a backup recording, but ah I don't know. This episode was okay. I think.
00:03:58
Speaker
It was alright, I don't know, what did you think, Hayley?
Character Analysis of Adam and Plot Devices
00:04:01
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I was saying in our in-between how I felt like the last episode was so good, like genuinely fantastic, to the point where I knew going in that this would never be able to live up to it.
00:04:13
Speaker
But it was okay, this one wasn't bad, this was no two-farther, don't get me wrong. but Haley you're saying this is better than the last episode I don't I don't I think it wasn't even as good as the two-farter but you like the two-farter better than this yeah it's the best one oh right gotcha of course oh um But yeah, this episode, I think where it excels is in its message.
00:04:40
Speaker
um How it gets there is very jumbly. It's a bit all over the place to me. Where like, especially with Adam, like they keep, his whole whole purpose is to like, you know, be the thing at the end of the episode to like, ah why the villain knows who the doctor is.
00:04:58
Speaker
But that's kind of it.
Setting and Societal Structure of Year 200,000
00:05:00
Speaker
So all the scenes he's in kind of feel like Him just fumbling around like, I just want to have technology. I'm a living plot device.
00:05:10
Speaker
and And it's just like, why are you here? what Can you have like an ounce of personality, please? Besides, like I'm curious and I want to to have this brain implant. But yeah, this episode, I think we were in the... Well, at the point of the episode to release, we were in the not-so-far-future in 2012.
00:05:31
Speaker
So this time we're going... Really far in the future, apparently to the year 200,000, which is still a long ways away from the sun blowing up. What year did the doctor say that was?
00:05:43
Speaker
Wasn't it like 3 billion or something? I feel like it was a very high number. yeah something like that. Because the new Roman Empire is in 10,000 years. um So it must mean in like a few billion years that the sun actually for real blows up.
00:05:57
Speaker
This is the year 200,000-ish. They keep saying 200,000, like, right on the dot, but I bet it's not exactly. But ah they basically land on, a like, a satellite called the Fifth Satellite? so No, Satellite 5.
00:06:10
Speaker
Satellite 5, yeah.
Introduction of Journalists Kathika and Suki
00:06:11
Speaker
Satellite Love. Satellite of Love. And they're basically looking down on the fourth human empire, is what they call it, with a population of 96 billion, and the doctor calls it, the i guess, the peak of humanity. Like, this is as good as it got on Earth,
00:06:27
Speaker
on earth i think Yeah, he called it like the height of Earth or something like that. Which is crazy because, what was it? 10,000 years? Oh yeah, we're past the new Roman Empire, so been and done there. That's not as cool as ah rectangle buildings on top of Earth you can see from space.
00:06:47
Speaker
I'm trying to remember the plot, but it's kind of so boring that I'm staring at my notes and like, what the hell happened again? there's like a weird comment from the doctor where like, uh, Rose is trying to like interact with Adam who's like freaking out about all this and he calls, uh,
00:07:05
Speaker
He calls Adam her boyfriend for some reason. I think we were both very confused by that. Yeah. And he does that again later in the episode, which is kind of weird. I guess we could talk about it a bit. But we also meet, like, our are NPCs of the episode, um which is Kathika and Suki, who are, like, ah they call themselves journalists, but I don't think they did any, like,
00:07:28
Speaker
I guess traditional journalist things. i I guess the definition of what a journalist is could have changed in the future. But to me, it just seemed like they were just like regular like client employees or something on this um there satellite.
00:07:42
Speaker
Oh, another thing was that like, I thought it was very weird their outfits, especially Sookies, which make... I commented this on, like, while we were recording, but she looks like she's dressed from, like, a department store. Like, she's wearing, like, a flowery, like, blossom top.
00:07:58
Speaker
Or blouse, I should say. Not blossom. She's wearing, like, a flowery blo ah blouse, and I don't know. she does This does not look like the year 200,000. This looks like the year 10,000, actually.
00:08:10
Speaker
she Yeah, I remember you said it looked like she went shopping at JCPenney.
Brain Implant Technology and Narrative Critique
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. um But this is basically supposed to be the source of... I don't think they describe it like this in the beginning, but for clarity's sake, they this satellite is like the source of human information.
00:08:27
Speaker
It's basically like the main news cycle um that everyone on Earth gets their information from, basically. And they're all on floor 139, and the doctor... We actually, I don't know if you noticed, we might have been talking over it, but they make another reference, very subtle reference to Bad Wolf.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yes, I did. I went, Bad Wolf TV! Bad Wolf TV! You were distracted by Bad Wolf TV. I was distracted by the face of Bo is pregnant. That's right. and How did that happen? We don't know and I don't think we'll ever know. I think that was just a gag.
00:08:59
Speaker
But everyone's on floor 139 and everyone wants to go to floor 500. The only thing they describe it as is it's a promotion and the walls are made of gold. Why anyone would want that? I don't know.
00:09:12
Speaker
The doctor manages to like basically lie his way into like getting information from Katika and Suki who basically provide a demonstration of how the little brain implant that they have ah works.
00:09:24
Speaker
This is like the first appearance of the little like brain implant or whatever. It's not even an implant. It's just like a little hidey hole that you can see the brain through. so I think it is the first time we see it.
00:09:36
Speaker
And then they have like a moment where they're like all frozen or something. And I guess they can't hear like the doctor x expositioning because he basically explains like what all this is to Rose and Adam.
00:09:48
Speaker
I think at the time of watching, we it was not told to us like why this was happening. Like they were, the purpose of the implant or whatever is to like receive like a bunch of news information, like through the human brain, but the human itself doesn't remember it.
00:10:07
Speaker
So when I was watching it, I was like, <unk> so what's the purpose of it then? I mean, obviously the purpose is like, you know, to aid the villain or whatever, but what do these people believe the purpose of it is?
Commentary on Information Overload
00:10:20
Speaker
And I feel like that's where a lot of my interest like slogged a bit because it kept showing us things that happen in this like lifetime and this lifestyle, but not showing any purpose for why these people would be doing it Which kind of took me out of it. It's like, so why should I care Why should I give a craft? Right. Question mark?
00:10:46
Speaker
ah About like, or at least because like, um it also would give like characters motivation, on like defending their lifestyle. Because I think that was a big point of the episode later is that at least for Cathica, you know,
00:10:58
Speaker
I think it represents a lot of like what's happening right now. Crazy that an episode could be relevant to today that a lot of people in modern society ah receive a lot of information, don't retain it, and walk around like they know everything, basically.
00:11:15
Speaker
I wish that point was emphasized a bit more in the beginning because it kind of just felt like they were just showing off sci-fi technology and being like, isn't that crazy? Anyway, because I felt a lot more um pulled into the episode at the end when that was like the point being made.
00:11:33
Speaker
And after that sort of experience, they, yeah, Adam, I can't tell if he's pretending or not. I think, I don't think he is on a certain level, but he is like acting like, oh wow, that really creeped me out.
00:11:46
Speaker
um I need, I need a moment to breathe on like the poop deck. I need a moment to think about this. Literally. And Rose is like, do you want me to come with you? And he's like, no, not really. It's okay.
00:11:59
Speaker
And then she's like, all right, well, hold on to this and gives him the TARDIS key. Yeah, here you go, guy. I've known two hours. Like, I don't, like, okay. Like, for the plot, there is the reason he has the TARDIS key so that the villain can, like, you know, threaten to take it at the very end.
00:12:19
Speaker
Practically, So, Rose gives it to him in case all of this is too much and he wants to go back to hang out in the TARDIS.
Suki's Rebel Fighter Revelation
00:12:28
Speaker
Which...
00:12:30
Speaker
I feel like is not the best solution because i feel like the TARDIS is probably just as overwhelming as this spaceship is. If not, maybe like a little bit quieter from people. If like his thing is like with people, ah there being too much people and too many crazy things going on.
00:12:45
Speaker
I mean, he's still got to deal with the idea of like the TARDIS being bigger on the inside, which they didn't really cover his reaction to that very well, I don't think. So it's still a crazy situation he's in. And also,
00:12:58
Speaker
What if he flies away with that thing? He can't be having that key. Yeah, but after the um a whole demonstration thing, Suki, the character with the JCPenneytop, gets called to get a promotion oh because ah the the editor ah detects that something is off about her and something is off about her. She's apparently like some sort of like rebel fighter she's part of the freedom foundation and she was a self-described anarchist i remember that yeah that i don't know is that so she calls herself that or he called her that i think he said like you're a self-described anarchist which means that she called herself an anarchist at some point okay okay i can still vibe with her some you know you know anarchist they they
00:13:47
Speaker
Real anarchists know what they're doing. and You know what I mean? I think you can't just like disrupt society and call yourself an anarchist. I think, and you know, despite the name, anarchists have like, not rules, but like, you know, principles, principles yes, exactly. Principles they go by.
00:14:04
Speaker
um And so that's probably what her group is, is is like the free, because You know, it's hard sometimes it's hard to be an anarchist and also part of an organized group, you know?
World-Building and Narrative Coherence
00:14:13
Speaker
But she's clearly a part of one.
00:14:15
Speaker
And apparently she has been the whole time and she like aims a gun at him and he's like, and she's trying to figure out like, ah yeah, clearly she's one of the people who get a clue as to something weird is going on with like this news cycle.
00:14:31
Speaker
However, she is disposed of rather quickly home and put along with the other, like, frozen people. By the way, there's frozen people operating the news cycle. I guess I'm not entirely sure how it works.
00:14:44
Speaker
ah Because the doctor explains later that it's like they operated through, like, a chip in their brain. But i if they're dead, then...
00:14:57
Speaker
The only way I could see it working is that they have to remain alive, or at least their brain has to remain alive, so that the chip can be, you know, on, so it has something to attach to, because if it's not powered by anything, it can't, you know, operate. It's a machine.
00:15:11
Speaker
So I don't know how they can be dead, but they're also not dead, because at the end, she, like, reaches out and grabs the villain so he doesn't escape at the end. see See what I mean? That this all of this is kind of like jumbled? is like i don't think the world building was very well thought out for this episode.
00:15:28
Speaker
like This episode kind of felt like a first draft. Yeah, yeah. like it's It's a lot of ideas bouncing around without like a lot of cohesion. Or at least like...
00:15:39
Speaker
They had ideas, but they wanted to have this aspect of like a reveal in the end, because that's how you keep an audience hooked. is like You have a hook, then you have small reveals like throughout the episode, then like a big reveal at the end.
00:15:53
Speaker
I think this would have been a little bit better if the reveals happened a little earlier, or if we just knew a little bit more information, like the information we knew at the end, because I don't think that would have taken away from the episode at all to know that the information The purpose of this satellite is to be a news broadcaster. This is how Earth receives all its information about the goings-on on all the planets and on on their own planet, basically.
00:16:20
Speaker
I wish that was more clear. It did not feel very clear. Yeah, another thing is that the editor-in-chief is supposed to be the villain. It's like this big blob monster with teeth.
00:16:32
Speaker
And I guess its motivation is to be... is to stay alive and the way it stays alive is to stay in a cold place and for some reason in order to maintain a cold place it has to maintain a news station did you catch that? like why the alien why the what was he called again? the Jagrafess the Jagrafess why would he want to operate a news cycle? I'm kind of as lost as you are bestie
00:17:05
Speaker
This is so confusing. They had this episode that was very confusing.
Thematic Discussion on Biased News
00:17:10
Speaker
And then they had this sort of, like, one of the, like, mini-reveals at the, uh, during, like, the midpoint of the episode was that, like, it was, like, hard to keep up because the Ninth Doctor was talking so fast, but he was like, something, something, something happened 91 years. Oh, yeah, the human, these human beings have, like, not progressed in technology for 91 years, and how long has this, um,
00:17:32
Speaker
ah satellite system been up and then the Cathica goes like, 91 years and it's supposed to be like this whole like, ooh, gotcha and just like, Okay, we got it, we know, and let's move on.
00:17:46
Speaker
And like while they're doing all this, Adam, Adam, hate you, Adam. He's just running around trying to get information on, what was it, like a microchip? like What is the technological advantage of like a microchip or something, or microdata?
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, he wanted like an Elon Musk chip implanted in his brain so he could drive a Tesla car. I don't know. That's his basic motivation. Gosh, but yeah, he can't access the computer, so he goes to get like a chip inside of his brain, and the person there is like, oh, why get a chip when you can get like the brain implant that opens a hole in your brain? And then he has this moment where he acts like this is like a really hard decision. Like, oh, how am I supposed to choose between...
00:18:28
Speaker
a tiny chip I can't see that can provide, you know, the purpose I want for it, or this gross brain implant that I don't know how this works. I mean, either way, I would not be doing this. This is like foreign technology, 200,000 years in the future, made for humans that probably are not the same as humans 198,000 years ago, biologically.
00:18:52
Speaker
was called, like, an information spike, wasn't it? i thought they were gonna like, a railroad spike in his head Spike up! I think at this point in the episode, when they start talking about, like, um, you know, the news cycle not being as, like, cool as we thought it was, i think and another thing this episode kind of fails on doing is that it brings up the... It brings up a conflict of, like,
00:19:18
Speaker
immigration, politic conspiracies all operated by the news station. i think another thing that takes me out of this episode is that, you know, I don't think this is a new concept in 2007, especially because they're covering it in Doctor Who. i'm I'm sure it's meant to like reflect it It's 200,000 years in the future and they're still surprised that the news is like biased and feeds you lies sometimes.
00:19:47
Speaker
Like, are why was she acting like- Kathika, you were pretty cool, Kathika, but why are you acting like surprised that and a main news station has its own, like, biases and, like, you know, motivations for what information it wants to tell people and what information it doesn't want to
Critical Thinking Challenge by the Doctor
00:20:05
Speaker
tell people? Like.
00:20:07
Speaker
and I think another thing it brings up is that, like, the doctor's like, have you noticed that there's no aliens on this ship? And she's like, not really. or she's like, i don't I don't know. That's just how it is. And I think he they start up a conversation of, like, um,
00:20:21
Speaker
When you are part of the population that the news cycle deems acceptable, you kind of, whether purposefully or accidentally, turn a blind eye to basically the issues of other people who are not looked fondly by the news cycle.
00:20:35
Speaker
Right. And therefore, you don't notice that there are no aliens. um, on this ship with you, even though there are no laws against it. Clearly there's something not prevent- clearly there's something preventing them from being on this ship.
00:20:51
Speaker
And they- and it's, like, so surprising hearing this, because I was like, wow, this is just like real life! And- They don't really provide a solution to this.
00:21:03
Speaker
i mean i kind of I mean, it's like a 30-minute episode, so it's like I don't expect them to. i I would hope that they don't bring this kind of stuff up just as a buzzword, you know? Like, like ooh, we referenced the thing happening in real life, just like a lot of sci-fi stuff does.
00:21:19
Speaker
What we're going to do about it? i don't know, lol. I guess the moral of the story is like take down corrupt news cycles, but that's a bit harder than they said it would be because not all news cycles are operated by a scary month scary alien monster that you can just blast out of existence.
00:21:37
Speaker
Well, maybe you can. i can't say stuff like that. Says who? Says who? so Says the doctor walking out with a sonic screwdriver.
00:21:50
Speaker
But yeah, I think a lot of this these points are brought up by the doctor with Katheka because I think Katheka does provide um an important role of representing humanity being...
00:22:00
Speaker
being basically contently ignorant of like problems going on with other people and stuff and he kind of chastises her for not like thinking for herself and goes like why can't you be more like Rose she's a real thinker she keeps asking why it's so hot in here And I thought that was a little silly for him to like bring up. was like, all right, teacher's pet Rose, whatever. Because she like smiled the camera after that. can't you be like my girlfriend? Yeah, my girlfriend.
Climax and Simon Pegg's Villain Portrayal
00:22:28
Speaker
They figure out that the heat being generated, it's so hot because it's basically being generated from upstairs and all being pushed downstairs, which I feel like is... Because at this point, I think we're guessing that, you know, the cold has something, the cold upstairs on floor 500 has something to do with the creep.
00:22:46
Speaker
Something to do with the creature upstairs.
00:22:51
Speaker
But it's generating heat and the heat needs to be pushed downward. But if the creature's generating heat, shouldn't the room be somewhat... Shouldn't the room be somewhat warm?
00:23:03
Speaker
Question mark? Isn't that what- If it's generating so much heat that it's making an entire floor of a satellite like burn up, I don't know, I feel like it should be like a space heater basically for that room and not like frozen solid in that room.
00:23:19
Speaker
Listen, I'm an artist. I am the social media manager. i am no scientist. You cannot consult me on any of these matters. i don't know how any of this works. What the hell?
00:23:31
Speaker
It doesn't make sense. I'm like writing all this. It doesn't make sense. I'm like putting all the red lines together. Like none of this makes sense. Really takes me out of the episode if it doesn't make sense. Like it just I don't think it's very hard to make it make sense.
00:23:43
Speaker
I think what they should have said instead is that the monster the alien monster relies on coal to survive. Therefore, we pump every single, like, you know, not AC unit, but like, whatever we use to make a ship colder, we pump it all into this room.
00:24:03
Speaker
Therefore, the rest of the satellite lacks any cooling technology, and therefore, it gets really hot really fast. But I think the argument you could say against that is that they're in space, so of course it's going to be cold. What would the what would the heat actually be coming from?
00:24:20
Speaker
um But I feel like that makes more sense and and easier to wave away than what they told us to believe. Listen, I should have been in that writer's room. I would have fixed everything for this episode.
00:24:32
Speaker
who What, were you like seven at the time? I would have been around seven, I don't know. But this is about the point where we sort of, like, learn everything everything is revealed because the Doctor and Rose get called to the 500th floor.
00:24:46
Speaker
And so the villain does his villain monologue. It's Simon Pegg. Ooh, Simon Pegg. And honestly, we said this before off-camera, but, um, not off-camera, off-mic. Yeah, off-mic.
00:24:57
Speaker
Um, I think the best part of this episode was also Simon Pegg's performance. I think he did a very good job as the villain. Um, very conniving, very...
00:25:08
Speaker
Very evil. So I have to give props to him. I was not super bored when he was on screen. Yeah, definitely not what I was expecting from this voice prequel, but I can't really complain.
00:25:20
Speaker
Huey Sr. is up to some dastardly tasks. But he yeah he basically reveals like, oh yeah, we control everything. Economics, politics, immigration stuff, and it's all controlled by us.
00:25:31
Speaker
Why do we care? don't know. Control. I think he mentioned like money was a factor. He likes getting money, maybe. I don't know, but why would the alien thing need money? See, i why would the alien need money? It's just an alien. It just wants to live. i don't know.
00:25:45
Speaker
Why do dragons hoard gold? They can't go spend it. Where are you going to spend it, the dragon store? Literally, this is literally the the problem that it has. But he captures, like, Rose and the Doctor. Rose and the Doctor, you know, they're not citizens, so the computer has a hard time, you know, deciphering who they are. They have, like, no identification, no social security number, and it's only when Adam...
00:26:07
Speaker
after he's had this like the spike implanted and for some reason i guess because he wants more information he sits in the chair to get the information spike blast through his head and records it on his phone um you know every time he calls his mom's house she's still not home which is very coincidental to me yeah he tries to like record all that stuff and as a result the simon peg villain basically gets all the information he knows about the doctor so he knows i guess the doctor told him his whole backstory I mean, unless he told him in the last episode that he's like a time lord and he's traveling with Rose Tyler and stuff.
Rose and the Doctor's Relationship Dynamics
00:26:43
Speaker
I don't know. What's wrong with this episode? I shake the episode. What's wrong with you? Start hitting your keyboard angrily. And then like the doctor is like, I would die before I tell you the secrets of like the Time Lords or whatever. And the Simon Pegg is like, oh, no no need. Your friend here has the TARDIS key. And he starts like floating it ominously. And then the doctor's like, RON!
00:27:07
Speaker
You and your freaking boyfriends! It's like, whoa, dude! Did you just swear? No, I said freaking. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. my gosh, you think I would swear on this podcast ever? I would never. Very much! Not even once.
00:27:24
Speaker
Gosh, at this point in the episode, I think we both of us were very much like, our like are we insane? Because I feel like... The characters in this show, whether it be Rose, the doctor, or other like you know side characters, keep alluding to like Rose and the doctor liking each other and like saying they like each other without like any sort of like romantic interactions happening between them other than like i guess Rose like staring at him fondly. But I feel like that's like attributed to you know him being a time traveler and him and her being like astounded by the things he can do.
00:28:00
Speaker
Not really by romance. I think the only time we got something slightly romantic was when they were going down the elevator and they held hands. I thought that scene was kind of cute. um That was cute. I was like, wow, finally! The first allusion to like them liking each other and it's episode 7 of the season and everyone's been talking about you guys liking each other so much. and it's just like I think it's been pretty platonic so far. i don't know. They're just a guy and a girl hanging out.
00:28:27
Speaker
It seems like they drive each other crazy half of the time, too. Yeah, literally. They're literally in conflict. I mean, that's their purpose. It's like they're supposed to be in conflict with each other because Rose has a different perspective than him.
00:28:37
Speaker
So therefore, they have arguments sometimes, which makes for good, like, you know, moral quandaries or conflicts, I don't know if it makes for a good romantic plot. I feel like a lot of their conversations have been more philosophical than romantic, you know what i mean?
00:28:52
Speaker
Right, right. I completely agree. Which I definitely appreciate, but, you know, I guess they kind of like each other at this point. I don't know. it feels a little bit forced at this point. She's known him for a total of five hours. Yeah.
00:29:06
Speaker
Like a few days at most, but who cares? They've spent three of them wanting to bash each other's brains in with frying pans like Tom and Jerry. Yeah, they're like so like hot and cold with each other, i swear.
00:29:18
Speaker
um Also, the fact that she's like 19 makes me a little
Kathika's Heroism and Plot Inconsistencies
00:29:22
Speaker
eh about it. I kind of wish she was a little bit older if they're gonna have like a romance thing together. like Yeah. Like at least in her mid to late 20s or something.
00:29:31
Speaker
But, you know, whatever, can't have them all. Can't have everything I want, I guess. At this point, Kathika has, like, you know, changed her mind because she decided she didn't want to go down there with them. But then she changed her mind because she got, you know, curious and suspicious of everything. And now she's down there.
00:29:47
Speaker
And the doctor's, like, trying to subtly, like, egg her on of saying, like, oh, you know, you expect all these humans to, like, fall in line and basically, you know, walk walk to their own deaths or whatever. So I think trying to like subtly edge her to like do something. And she does. She sits in her little chair um and opens up her little brain spike or whatever.
00:30:08
Speaker
um This part confused me as well. So they said she starts reversing and overriding a lot of the commands and basically getting things back to normal and stopping the villain and stuff.
00:30:22
Speaker
When... The Simon Pegg character goes, how is this happening to himself? He says, quote, ah he's she's a member of staff with an idea, quote end quote. And so that's the only reasoning for why she's able to stop everything.
00:30:40
Speaker
It feels very plot device. I have no idea why her being in that room as opposed to the room downstairs gives her more like administrative control over like the like the entire news station.
00:30:54
Speaker
Because they didn't expand upon that. I wish they would have said something like, this is like the main, this circle that she, or this chair that she sits in, you know, gives you access to like everything on the ship, like admin controls and stuff.
00:31:07
Speaker
They never say that. There's just a skeleton on the chair, and you're left to assume, like, wow, last person who did this freaking died. Which I don't know is what that's supposed to imply, that ah it's hard to use it? I don't know.
00:31:20
Speaker
It's a lot of, like, I think the this episode's making me supposed to make me assume a lot of things, and and I don't really know why.
Adam's Betrayal and Future Implications
00:31:27
Speaker
a lot of heat... And yet things aren't being expanded upon.
00:31:33
Speaker
Oh, how clever, Hayley. Thank you. I'm very smart. But they they win the day. They all run out of there, the Dr. Rosenkathika. And when Simon Pegg tries to tries to get out as well, one of the ah Suki who had been frozen earlier grabs him by the leg. And apparently she is so strong that he cannot escape.
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I guess he dies or something. I don't know. They go back to like the original 139. And I think the doctor implies that it's like left up to Kathika to like pick up the pieces of like repairing the news station and stuff. I guess because she's like...
00:32:11
Speaker
been working there for years. So like it feels like a very not very tightly loose end. It's a loose end not very tout tightly wound, if i should if I had to describe it. The doctor's just like, alright, not my problem anymore. Time to get out of here.
00:32:26
Speaker
In fact, you know what is my problem? like And then he just makes a beeline towards Adam, who is like, ah blah blah bla but but and good thing things turned out pretty good, eh, doctor? The doctor's like, ooh, when I get my hands on you.
00:32:41
Speaker
i really thought he was going to slog him in the face. ah for Me too. he lived there He was like, the camera was framed perfectly for the doctor to just smack him. ah But he doesn't.
00:32:52
Speaker
um I was going to say, like, I thought it was a little weird, the the reaction, because if I were the doctor, or if at least i were Rose, and I was trapped in you know the frozen floor or whatever, and I saw footage of like my new friend you know screaming in pain and having a laser blasted through his forehead, I would think he is not there of his own volition. That would be my immediate assumption. I would assume that he had been captured, and they're trying to take his brain information.
00:33:21
Speaker
But... for the sake of moving the plot forward, I guess, they immediately go, Adam, how could you? You consented to that brain implant, which he did.
00:33:33
Speaker
He did, but I still... He did not consent to the... Him being brain blasted, basically. Which, you know, I think is the point of the episode, though, that he shouldn't have poked his nose where it didn't belong?
00:33:49
Speaker
Or maybe... No... I guess it's more like he should have done like more research. He should have like learned more about whatever implant he was going to get if he was going to get an implant before he got the implant.
00:34:01
Speaker
And so therefore, he didn't know to the full extent of how it worked, and therefore, it was used against him. And so when the doctor is like, this is your fault, or gives him a look that basically says, this is your fault and I'm mad at you now, um Adam basically responds, ah well, this point this it only happened because you were in charge, which...
00:34:22
Speaker
I do like that line. I wish for the message of the episode being when people turn a blind eye, bad things happened or when you don't take responsibility for stuff, you know, bad things happen.
00:34:34
Speaker
His final line or his his line before entering the TARDIS going because this happened because you were in charge and basically deferring blame to the doctor. um i like that direction for his character basically being like, this is what happens when you don't learn your lesson.
00:34:49
Speaker
ah You become an Adam. um His whole plotline was so boring though, it it barely feels worth it, so I don't know. But they basically take him home and they're like, you are not allowed to travel with us anymore. um And Adam is like, well, what am I supposed to do with this like brain implant thing? And the doctor is like, I don't know.
00:35:11
Speaker
Don't draw attention to it. And I really think it was stupid on um Adam's part to not make the little ah trigger for his implant opening up something other than, you know, snapping his fingers.
00:35:28
Speaker
um I think whistling a specific tune would have been, you know, good for it not being accidentally revealed to people. Like, maybe that's how he solves it. I don't know. This character. This character! I grab Adam by the shirt collar. What is wrong with you?
00:35:44
Speaker
I'm very glad that his arc is done and we won't be dealing with him too much anymore. But yeah, this was when I said earlier, I only remembered the ending of this episode. This was the part i remembered was like the doctor and Rose, like making fun of his little brain implant and then his mom accidentally snapping
Episode's Potential and Missed Opportunities
00:36:01
Speaker
it open. And then the episode ending there for some reason, I thought this was a 10th doctor episode, which is why I was so surprised that we were here already. Cause I, for some reason I remember the doctor, the 10th doctor being mad at him.
00:36:14
Speaker
And being like, I can't believe you've done this. And now you suffer the consequences. Um, with the whole snapping thing. I guess this was a ninth doctor. i can I just had my memory rewritten. But yeah, that's the, roof that's the whole episode. Hayley.
00:36:28
Speaker
It wasn't a horrible episode by any means, I think. But I think it just was such a confusing episode that it made it a bit frustrating to watch, you know? it was just, for me, it was just kind of dull more than anything else. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:41
Speaker
Man, you know what's not dull? Going through trivia facts. Yeah! I do have a couple interesting ones. There was one in particular that I thought was very interesting and then we'll get to it.
00:36:53
Speaker
I mean, we've already covered like, you know, Bad Wolf TV was one of the name of the channels. um Not very touched up upon in the episode, just that the face of Bo is featured on it. Apparently in ah production, the head spike was originally going to involve opening the entire craium cranium opening up.
00:37:12
Speaker
rather than just a forehead like opening. So the whole forehead of of like Adam was gonna be opened up like a garage door, I think. Which I think is far more terrifying.
00:37:28
Speaker
is! You'd be able to see the whole brain thing. Ew. Ew, yucky gross. Oh wow, horror's beyond my comprehension. Thanks, I hate it There's another trivia point that says that the episode was originally intended to be focused entirely on Adam, with the Doctor and Rose having less screen time in the finished version.
00:37:46
Speaker
Filming started. Russell T. Davies saw how good Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper were. He felt he really couldn't justify sidelining them and wrote them to give them more to do. Which I feel like is a crazy point because it felt like Adam wasn't doing anything this episode.
00:38:01
Speaker
I know, I kind of wish Adam wasn't in it. Yeah, I feel like this episode would have been even more boring if he was the focus of the episode. But it's so funny that Russell T. Davies is like, wow, the actors I like are doing things I like. I guess I should put them in the episode more. Yeah.
00:38:17
Speaker
I mean, it's a fair bias. I think they were the most entertaining part of the episode. I'm glad they got more things to do. I think they probably helped save it. But another point, I'm not very surprised by this one. It says that the episode has the dubious distinction of being ranked as Doctor Who magazine readers' least favorite ninth Doctor story in all three of their major polls held since airing in 2009, 2014, and 2023. This three-time loser episode.
00:38:41
Speaker
and twenty twenty three this is a three time loser episode This one's more of a loser than the two-farter? Apparently. I think the two-farter is worse, if I'm being honest with you. Okay, I wanted to make sure that we were joking before, because I definitely think the two-farter was my least favorite so far. This I did not think was fart levels. Yeah, because you know what? At least this was one episode. Unfortunately, as per the name, the two-farter was a two-parter.
00:39:12
Speaker
And we had to deal with that for two whole episodes, which is horrible. um At least now, like... Even without the farts, it did not need to be two episodes long. It really did. And I was more invested on, like, what the hell was with that pig astronaut guy. And we never learn about him. We never get to know.
00:39:30
Speaker
was he? He was so cute. This isn't, like, the episode I was telling you about at the beginning of, you know, our podcast when I was like, this is the episode that fans hate. but it seems like this is the episode of the season one that fans hate.
Adam's Character Fate and Future Motivations
00:39:46
Speaker
But overall, there is a certain one or two episodes. There's one i in particular I think of, and then recently I was reminded of a second one. um So I will bring it up when we get there, but ah again, i so I still want to see if you can guess which one it is. It's not this one, though.
00:40:05
Speaker
I'm surprised how low the score was for this episode, because I Because I think the same like i and i keep saying this but the saving grace of this episode is like the message it has, and I really appreciate the message.
00:40:17
Speaker
Okay, this so this trivia just made me laugh a little bit. It says that Adam has the dubious distinction of being the first and, to date, only known companion to have his tardest traveling rights revoked by the doctor due to bad behavior.
00:40:32
Speaker
That's funny, got put in timeout. Literally. Due to bad behavior. It's crazy that it says that, like, um, like, the first and to date.
00:40:44
Speaker
I think that basically implies that of, like, the 50 years that the show has been running, Adam is the first one to get put in timeout. Hardest timeout, basically.
00:40:56
Speaker
Which is crazy. Like, Imagine being such a bad human that the doctor just is like, you cannot walk into this, ah into my ship ever again. I would, I would just live in shame for the rest of my life. Like, I would never let that happen to me. I would have be such a good companion.
00:41:13
Speaker
You gotta go off the grid. Oh yeah, I'd be, I would have an amazing report card at the end of my semester. Yeah. As a companion. It's so funny because it it went on to list like the various ways companions like leave and you know I'm not going to say them as per as to not spoil but it's like yeah that's true the reasons like look that companions leave have nothing to do with them having bad behavior which is really funny.
00:41:40
Speaker
He's just a bag of panties, a bad boy. But the final trivia point I have, and this is the one I thought was very interesting. So the original motivation, apparently, for Adam, which I feel like they really should have kept in because I would have made his character and, you know, obviously motivations stronger, which was that The reason he was looking for technology or like for futuristic stuff was because one of his parents basically had like arthritis or something or had some sort of like medical disease that he was like, well, there's no cure for it where I'm from.
00:42:11
Speaker
We're 200,000 years in the future on earth. There must be a cure at this point. and the doctor sort of like deters him from like you know looking into it but that's his whole thing is that he wants to try to bring technology to his family members to try to help aid them and cure their diseases that kind of information is like especially to someone from like our you know decade it'd be priceless so i would if that was his motivation for the episode i'd be like hell yeah adam get your information i'd kind of be on his side a little bit i think
00:42:45
Speaker
And that would have been so easy. Like, they could have just thrown in one line. Yeah, it didn't- To make it so much more compelling. It's really not that hard. It's- because when he has- his only motivation seems to be like, I want to know more about technology. And that's such- It's such weak writing, I should say. I don't want to be rude to the... I mean, Russell T. Davies apparently wrote this episode, and I know he can do better than this. um Maybe it was the director, I don't know. Because I haven't... I don't think we've seen this director on this... on an episode Doctor Who before. I think it looked like a fairly new name to me, I don't know.
00:43:23
Speaker
I really felt like that would have just made us understand his character a little bit more if he just had a stronger motivation like that. But that sort of goes along into the trivia point of like, I think this either this was meant to be a part of it or maybe he was just motivated by this, but apparently there was a bit of a spin-off comic based on Adam a little bit.
00:43:42
Speaker
Or more of like Adam was like a twist villain at the end of this comic because it's basically implied that he resents the doctor for kicking him out of the TARDIS, and the comic explains that he had an old ulterior motive beyond like personal gain when he plotted to cash in on future technology, and he wished to save his ailing mother with its advanced medical capabilities. So that's why I think the two points tie together. And they were like,
00:44:04
Speaker
You know what? We change our mind. He is motivated by medical stuff. And it's just like, I think it's a little too little too late at this point.
Comparison to Other Media with Lost Potential
00:44:11
Speaker
But due to the antiquated technology in the 21st century, his mother soon died, leaving Adam alone, even though they said he had a dad in the episode, but whatever.
00:44:20
Speaker
um So he seeks revenge on the doctor and every companion with whom he regularly travels across during his different incarnations. So he becomes like a villain like much later in these sort of spin-off Doctor Who comics, which I am aware exists, but I've not read any i've not read any like short stories, whether it be like a novel or a comic that has to do with Doctor Who.
00:44:43
Speaker
it's they're They're usually stories about like his in-between episode times. like They'll usually feature like a specific Doctor character. being like, oh, well, in between this episode, I was doing this.
00:44:55
Speaker
Because I do think there is implied time in between episodes. I know we joke about, like, you know, the Rose has known the Doctor for, like, five days. I think realistically, she's probably been traveling with him about a month.
00:45:07
Speaker
Okay. if we're talking If we're talking about, like, my real opinion, I think it's, like, probably a month-ish. There's probably adventures we haven't seen. Like, like when I think about, like, adventures like that, it's probably, like, mini-adventures.
00:45:19
Speaker
Stuff that's, like, not very consequential to either the main plot or it's, like, it was, like, five minutes. They, like, visited a planet for, like, 15 minutes and they were, like, hmm. Kind of boring. Bye. And it's like not enough for an episode.
00:45:30
Speaker
But that again is also a lot of my imagination doing the work for them, which I don't really want to do. um But that's what the comics and novels are for, basically. um And I do believe Adam is supposed to be like a twist villain or something. And at the end of one of the comics being like, oh, I've been following you the whole time. I'm really mad at you. and I don't know, i can't i can't get behind the evil motivation unless you have the whole medical thing happening with his like mom or parent or whoever it is.
00:45:56
Speaker
Because that's what makes him understandable, but they decided not to have that in the actual they decided out to have that in the actual canonical episodes. So it's like, what are we here for? What are we here for, dude?
00:46:07
Speaker
This episode reminds me a lot of Disney's Wish in that like they had all of these really cool ideas that they just wound up scrapping. And the final product kind of feels like a first draft or just like it feels like it's been stripped of everything that could have made it compelling. Well, because like the whole thing with Wish, right, was that it had like a really cool original draft and then they decided to scrap it for whatever reason.
00:46:31
Speaker
Everything cool I heard about Wish has been from like the concept art of like the couple being like an evil couple and the star being like... ah star prince who like falls in love with the main character which sounded really cute um i haven't seen that movie yet just because i know it's gonna be like yeah you shouldn't waste of i think i would have more fun watching it with like you or someone or some like some of our friends or something like watching it by myself it would feel like such a chore you know what i mean yeah
00:47:03
Speaker
I would make it worth your while for sure.
Ratings, Critique, and Episode Conclusion
00:47:05
Speaker
Thank you. But yeah, I think it sucks when like media has this problem of just like it seemed like perhaps maybe the script was like rushed or something. They couldn't get all their ideas out at the right deadline or not.
00:47:19
Speaker
You know, I don't want this is me not wanting to be like mean to anyone in production in the writing room or whatever, because I know, you know, writing for stuff like this is pretty hard.
00:47:30
Speaker
And maybe there was a deadline issue or something. I can't say that I have not been a victim to deadlines, you know? Or so we or some sort of outside force that prevents me from, like, putting my... Making my work go to its, like, fullest potential, you know?
00:47:46
Speaker
ah But it's very disappointing, this episode. Like, it had a lot of stuff it could have done, and it didn't. I hate to say it. whats What is your rating for this episode? I'm gonna give this five...
00:47:58
Speaker
rushed boyfriends for Rose's Polycule out of 10.
00:48:05
Speaker
Oh my gosh. ah Let me think. I have to contemplate this. I know, that's a hard one to It's always, it's always, I have to think of something. I always, I have to think of something funnier than you.
00:48:17
Speaker
da It sucks because I can only think of one thing and I'm like, that thing's not funny enough. But I guess I have to say because this episode was kind of boring. I can't think of anything else. um I'm going to give it 3.25. So three and one quarter brains a visual brains visible by snapping your fingers out of 10.
00:48:38
Speaker
I for sure thought you were gonna say like 3.25 Simon Pegg as Mr. Snowmiser or something like that. No, that's really funny. i wish he said that.
00:48:51
Speaker
Because I would have never thought of that, but he is basically the snow miser of this episode. Him and his best... I mean, if helps, I literally thought like five seconds ago. He's the snow miser, and the big alien glob thing is like the heat miser.
00:49:03
Speaker
I think another thing about this episode, the alien was not very memorable. It was just like a glob with a mouth on it. I wish... It's a pit bull. It didn't look like it needed to be cold. It actually looked like it needed to be warm, because it was very fleshy, you know?
00:49:16
Speaker
There are like yeah animals that... There are animals or creatures or whatever that you could base off of that, like, or more prefer to a cold environment. This was not, i don't think.
00:49:28
Speaker
The alien design was a bit lackluster this episode. I did not particularly like it. But whatever, I guess. Yeah, that's that's how I give it. Below average, but not as bad as it could have been, I guess.
00:49:39
Speaker
Well, Hayley, I guess we gotta play it out. ah do do- doo do I hate to say it, the two farter aliens, just the aliens in particular, were better than this alien. Yeah, i if that if that episode if those episodes have anything over this episode as the alien designs, those were pretty good. And I liked how it was like a full body suit. They felt very unique. you know if you asked me in like a month's time to like describe the aliens from that episode, I'd be able to. if you I'm probably going to forget what the alien looks like from this episode. I'm going to be so honest with you.
00:50:12
Speaker
I already did. Yeah, it's already gone. I need to replace it with better memories of stuff. Forget everything you know. Done. yeah Easy peasy. Done. Next one looks like it's going to be a lot better.
00:50:23
Speaker
That's true. I am very excited about the next one. We'll talk we'll definitely talk about the bumper like in the next episode. ah i I remember this episode is probably going to be... I think it's going to be decent. I don't remember having any complaints about it from last time I watched it Because, remember at the beginning of this episode, I was like, the fact that I don't remember ah anything of this episode feels like a bad sign. You know? Like, as in it was not very memorable.
00:50:48
Speaker
I do remember multiple scenes from the next one, though. So, I think, from what I remember... It's like okay and pretty good at a lot of places. And it's like okay at other places. But I don't think it was bad per se.
00:51:02
Speaker
But it it has interesting concepts, of course, and I'm very interested to see how it goes. And for the little beasts that are in this episode. Yeah, the chupacabras. The flying chupacabras.
00:51:13
Speaker
Alright, well, we'll see you guys next time. Hopefully i don't know on a better note. Don't let the Jersey Devil hit you out on the way out. Oh my gosh, here he comes now. What did you guys do?
00:51:25
Speaker
Alright, bye. Not helping ya. This is your fault. See ya.
00:51:38
Speaker
Hey guys, thank you for listening to our show. This was created by me, Julia, and Hailey Doherty. The cover art and the thumbnails were illustrated by the two of us and edited by me. Episodes edited by me and social media is run by Hailey. The theme song and other sound effects are by half.cool.
00:51:52
Speaker
You can find us on Instagram at meuanddoctorwho, on Twitter at meuanddw, and on TikTok at meuanddoctorwho. You can find this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Thank you for listening.
00:52:05
Speaker
Bye!