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Episode 125 - RCSA SHAPE 2025 Recap Part 1
41 Plays2 hours ago
SHAPE 2025 Recap Part 1, featuring Dr Adam Fraser, Simon Kuestenmacher, Paul Roos, Dave Eccles and Tadhg Kennelly and Leigh Sales.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview of RCSA Shape Event
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome to Recruitment News Australia for the 2nd of September 2025. I'm Ross Klinit. And I'm Adele Last. And welcome to our special edition summary of Recruitment News Australia.
00:00:23
Speaker
We are summarising the Shape event from the RCSA last week. Yes, it was held at the Sherratt Mirage on the Gold Coast, 26th to the 28th of August. We were both there. I was in the speaker room more than you were, Adele. You were sort of working the punters, attempting to get some sales over the line, but we'll have a bit of a discussion of what we thought of the whole event.
Venue and Attendance Discussion
00:00:47
Speaker
So let's kick off with the venue. What did you think of the venue? Shape returned.
00:00:52
Speaker
to the Sheraton Mirage on the Gold Coast. 2019, World Employment Confederation was also there. 2013. Yeah, it was a familiar venue, of course. As you mentioned, we've been there a couple of times before. It's one of the kind of jewels in the crown of hotels, I suppose, on the Gold Coast. It is a pretty spectacular hotel for anyone that's been there.
00:01:14
Speaker
it is a beautiful venue. It is in a prime position. You don't spend much time outside the hotel at these sort of conferences. so you want it to be a pretty nice hotel. And I think, you know, I give it a bit of a thumbs up on that in that sense.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. This is one of my favourite hotels that the RCSA goes to with shape. Lots of natural light. I think the space for the exhibitors works well in terms of people coming out immediately from the b room on a break and going for the food and coffee.
00:01:52
Speaker
ah Good indoor, outdoor space, certainly from an accommodation point of view. Lovely room. i a beautiful view of the beach. So it ticks all the boxes for me.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we've previously mentioned food at these conferences. Sometimes we haven't been as impressed, Ross, but I loved the food at this conference. It was outstanding. Definitely five-star hotel stuff.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yes, yes, agreed. Make Your Own Burgers, I'm always a fan of those. And the tacos that we had, the Make Your Own Tacos for the final event, which was the farewell drinks, I thought they were excellent. The outdoor space where we had those drinks by the pool was excellent as well.
00:02:40
Speaker
So, yeah, overall, really enjoyed the food, five out of five from me. Excellent. And we were very blessed with the weather last week. Can't complain. It was a very balmy sort of 24 to 26 degrees the whole week, not a spot of rain and very little, you know, inclement weather in any in any way, shape or form. So it was beautiful. Some of the events were outside. And so it was lovely to have ah that opportunity to be, you know, out in the fresh air.
00:03:09
Speaker
It was definitely the previous week. It was overcast and rainy and not that great, but we struck gold. We had, i think, sort of clear skies, 24, 25, 26 degrees.
00:03:24
Speaker
And like you could not have wished for better weather in August. It was like literally perfect. Well, we're gushing a bit here, Ross, but ah numbers were down, i hear, for this event. They were. I don't know specifically, but certainly to me as a frequent attendee, i don't know, this was maybe conference 16 or 17, I've lost count, but certainly I would have thought struggling to get to 200, which is a reflection of it's been a pretty tough year for the recruitment industry and
00:03:55
Speaker
There are companies that typically send multiple attendees, people to people, for example. Typically, there's sort of four eight or nine people from people to people that there wasn't anyone there.
00:04:07
Speaker
And, yeah, the guys from Smart were also an obvious um group of absent attendees as well. So, yeah, some of the stalwarts of the industry that regularly go to conference and send multiple staff were definitely not there.
00:04:20
Speaker
There were some new faces, which was nice to see, but numbers were definitely down. on this event, but it didn't overshadow the quality of the speakers or the fact that we had to some pretty high profile speakers. Ross, let's dive into those.
Dr. Adam Fraser on Behavior and Leadership
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, let's start with Dr. Adam Fraser. Dr. Fraser, well known to RCSA audiences. I saw him present at the Alice Springs conference in 2007. And I think this would be about the fourth presentation that I've seen him give for for the RCSA. His presentation was the Ripple Effect, Human Behaviour and Team Culture. You were in the room for this one. Adele, give us a little bit of an overview.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, Dr. Adam Fraser is a regular on the stage, as you said, and there's good reason for that. He has a really high energy, pragmatic sort of style about him. He is Australian. It's always good to hear ah um here a local who knows his stuff, I suppose.
00:05:17
Speaker
And he brings through some really interesting case studies and gets you to understand human behaviour based on activities, technology, things that are going on in the world around you. And it's always very interesting. Everybody's always interested in how we behave as humans, right?
00:05:34
Speaker
Yes, he he certainly highlighted the fact that in an era of significant disruption with AI, the thing that we can focus on immediately is human behaviour.
00:05:45
Speaker
And he brought up the research by George Moyla, who produced predictive algorithms that help police reduce crime by 30% because he identified where behaviour was contagious. And that really was the theme of Adams looking at behaviours in the workplace, such as lateness, excitement, gossip. Like these are the things that if they take hold, they're contagious and are things that do not help build a strong culture.
00:06:18
Speaker
I thought it was really powerful when he asked you in the room, each of us in the room, and to think about elements as leaders where we have had a positive impact to our team or to our culture or where we've had a negative impact, where our mood or our behaviour has had a negative impact. bit confronting, but I think it was a good exercise.
00:06:38
Speaker
It was because he he raised the good point, and I think most people, including me, got it wrong, which is which emotion spreads the fastest? Is it positive emotion or negative emotion? I'm thinking, oh, I reckon it's negative emotion, but it's actually positive emotion. So the importance of leaders being up, being positive, being happy, engaging in positive behaviour is critical.
00:07:03
Speaker
And he talked about that ripple effect of where tiny changes, it's those 1% changes to your behaviour can have that huge ripple effect. It flows out to the organisation.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, and those things such as check-ins, like they're the things that ah matter, and he highlighted that um workplace research indicated that employees felt more connected during the COVID lockdowns because leaders made more of an effort to have genuine check-ins, and that that really doesn't surprise me. It just reinforces the fact that it's not just your presence as a leader, it's the one-on-one conversations, substantial conversations that you have with each of the people that report to you.
00:07:48
Speaker
It's those that really matter. And probably no surprise that your overall perception within an organisation can really impact people's expectations of you as well.
00:08:02
Speaker
And I thought he was really clever for him to put up two images that were quite iconic and asked us to um give our feeling around what we thought would be fair if somebody, if a scandal had occurred. Now, the two images he put up, one was of Trump and one was of Obama.
00:08:21
Speaker
And he said, imagine there is some big scandal with either of these two gentlemen. What is your feeling if you hear a scandal about Trump? What is your feeling if you hear a scandal about Obama? And he specifically referenced, I believe, a you know, a personal scandal, like it had an affair.
00:08:37
Speaker
And how would you feel if you heard Trump had an affair? And how would you feel if Obama had an affair? And i think that was a really great way, pictorially, of describing when you are a leader with integrity, and and this is the the message that he was trying to convey, I suppose, with Trump, we've come to expect that there's dishonesty and a lack of integrity and a lack of trust. And so if we hear Trump had an affair, we would just go, what, you know, who cares? Or, you know, yeah, how many is that now?
00:09:06
Speaker
You know, we wouldn't be surprised. Whereas if Obama did that, we would be quite shocked and surprised because he's portrayed an image of being very ah family oriented and having a high level of trust and integrity. So it would be more of a shock.
00:09:23
Speaker
So I think that's really powerful in the workplace that image that you've chosen to present to the to to the team, to the culture, has to maintain that consistency.
00:09:35
Speaker
That's right. The higher the expectations that you create with respect to your own behaviour, then the more likely it is that people will feel let down. But even if in objective terms, your behaviour wasn't bad,
00:09:51
Speaker
compared to the expectations that have been set, it absolutely can be very, very demoralising for people. And that ah kind of seems almost unfair, but that's the reality is, mean, exactly as we know, based on um how people just kind of shrug their shoulders over Trump's behaviour.
00:10:10
Speaker
All right. Before we move on to the next one, Ross, your key takeaway from Dr. Adam Fraser? Behaviour is contagious. And as a leader, people are looking at you more than they're looking at anyone else. So remember the standard that you state that you ah stand for and make sure that you act consistent with that.
00:10:30
Speaker
Great. Let's talk about some of the other speakers that you heard from through the day.
Dr. Simon Kustermacher on Demographics and Skills Shortage
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, so next up, Dr Simon Kustermacher, who is our new favourite demographer, taking over from Bernard Salt, who must be retired by now.
00:10:47
Speaker
So Simon, I'd seen Simon present the day before. He's originally or certainly educated in Germany, so he has this classic German accent with some quite quirky humour, which I quite appreciated.
00:11:04
Speaker
So just a summary of what he said, Australia ranks amongst the top 10 most attractive countries for migrants and global capital, out the economic drivers of Australia from a GDP point of view, mining, agriculture, tourism and international education. Those will remain strong due to the growing middle class in Asia.
00:11:27
Speaker
population, our national population is expected to grow by up to 4 million people by 2035. So that'll take us to around 31.5 to 32 million people. Migration responsible for about 70 75% that. to thirty two million people migration is responsible for about seventy to seventy five percent oh that Now, millennials, millennials are the peak spenders. So they're entering their peak spending year, which is age 43. Did you know that? So it's going to be a decade of high consumption, which means the Reserve Bank is going to remain very vigilant about interest rates, which is probably not good for the bottom third.
00:12:06
Speaker
We have an aging population, no surprise. So those aged 85 plus, that includes my mother, 86 this year, ah will double from about just under 600,000 to around million older australians in the next fifteen years and that's going to put a lot of pressure on the aged care system.
00:12:25
Speaker
ah Simon said the aged care system in this country just will not be able to cope. And therefore, what his major recommendation in terms of make sure you've got enough money to afford the best aged care that you ah can and also look after your own health to make sure that you don't need aged care for a long period of time.
00:12:48
Speaker
He said there's a permanent skill shortage. the The skill shortage will continue simply due to retiring boomers and fewer younger workers, ah particularly issues with a retirement cliff in aged care, truck drivers, nursing, certain trades, ah cleaning, health care.
00:13:09
Speaker
um You know, these are these are areas where you've got a significantly increased ah large or large minority of those workforces that are ageing and are going to be retiring soon.
00:13:22
Speaker
And overall, contrary to what people might have thought, and given what we saw with protests on the weekend, that net migration averaged out really has changed very little over the last few years. We've had a catch up due to, of course, the borders being shut across COVID-19.
00:13:40
Speaker
But in real terms, migration's only increased net migration has only increased by 1.9% compared to pre-pandemic levels. It's averaging about 250,000 a year.
00:13:54
Speaker
Gee, that's interesting that the media has blown that so far out of proportion, isn't it? that The news that you hear around migration is quite distorted according to what we see versus what the data says.
00:14:07
Speaker
Tell us from all of this fantastic demographic data, Ross, how did he pull that together? What use was this to the people in the room? How are they going to use this information? Well, I think in simple terms that there's going to be no end to the skill shortage and we do rely on migration.
00:14:27
Speaker
And therefore, as recruiters, we need to be continually adjusting our own mindset about people coming into the country in terms of, yes, they don't have Australian experience, but what human skills do. they have.
00:14:41
Speaker
And we need to ensure that our clients are also adjusting their mindset because this is the reality. Every economy wants the 18 to 39 age group. We are not producing enough babies to increase um our portion of the population there. So we have to bring workers in, which means a mindset change for everyone.
00:15:04
Speaker
Okay. The next speaker was a bit of a personal favourite of yours, I hear.
Insights from Paul Ruse on Leadership and Culture
00:15:09
Speaker
Yes, Paul Ruse, former Sydney Swans Premiership coach. He coached the Swans to the flag in 2005 and he retired and then also took up the coaching job at Melbourne. Coached Melbourne for three years, two years prior to them winning their first flag in 44 years. so his presentation lessons in leadership and culture.
00:15:31
Speaker
And the reality is it was very much an echo of what Dr. Adam Fraser had spoken about, except through the sharing of examples to do with football and particularly his time as a player at Fitzroy and the Sydney Swans, as a coach at the Swans and Melbourne.
00:15:51
Speaker
So specifically, he defined culture as behaviours that are accepted dead and rewarded and he said the best view of what your culture really is to ask your newest team member what do they notice specifically because those people will of course notice behaviors both good and not so good based on the fact that they don't have a context they are joining your organization and a brand new He said high-performing teams require psychological safety for open and honest and constructive conversations.
00:16:26
Speaker
And it's very important that you're providing overwhelmingly positive feedback about the way people are behaving, sort of five to seven pieces of positive feedback.
00:16:37
Speaker
for one piece of feedback to improve. he talk about He spoke about the complexity of leadership and the fact that you need to understand the different personalities that make up your team and that different personalities need a different leadership style. And this is the challenge of the leader to be able to flex.
00:16:56
Speaker
And he said systemising team culture is critical and you do that by specifically defining the behaviours that you're aspiring to, being honest about the behaviour that you see and that the team sees, acknowledging the gap and having a specific plan in place to bridge the gap.
00:17:19
Speaker
And there need to be consequences for behaviours that are not followed or fulfilled by each team member. And if necessary, you do need to remove negative team members, even if they're very talented.
00:17:33
Speaker
because their impact, their negative impact is outweighing their contribution. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting presentation, as you said, not particularly new content, but delivered by somebody who is at the really pointy end of where culture impacts performance when you're talking about it being on a sporting field. But I love those couple of comments you make there around asking the newest team member. I think that's such a great idea because, yes,
00:18:01
Speaker
They are going to have the most clean view of what the culture looks like and the idea of removing negative cultural ah you know impact, people who are impacting the culture negatively, even when they're high performing or they might be making you the most money. I think that's got to be a really tough call from a business lesson perspective for those in the room.
00:18:22
Speaker
Well, I suspect there are a few people maybe shifting a little uncomfortably in their seats, but clearly works in the world of professional sport and it also applies equally inside offices as well.
Discussion on Men's Mental Health Initiatives
00:18:36
Speaker
Okay, and the final presentation that we both sat in on was Lee Sayles. Yes, just before Lee, I just want to give a shout out to Dave Eccles and Ty Keneally.
00:18:46
Speaker
When no one's watching, they spoke about mental health and about checking in particularly men who aren't stereotypically the people who are initiating relationships and maintaining relationships.
00:19:00
Speaker
And they spoke about the... the organisation that they've built, which is 6am on a Wednesday, guys getting together in a local park or at the beach to do some exercise, to do a bit of sharing, and then have a coffee or something just to maintain their mental health. So again, being a Sydney Swans fan, Ty Keneally's got a photo with Ty. So I love this session. And Dave,
00:19:27
Speaker
former recruiter sent a very clear message that men in particular, make sure you put your mental health first. Okay, and then we- All let's talk about
Feedback on Lee Sayles' Presentation
00:19:41
Speaker
Lee Sayles. So we're both in the room there. So Adele, what do you think of Sayles?
00:19:47
Speaker
Well, I know we had a bit of a different experience in relation to Lee's sales and i am actually a huge fan of hers. I have read ah some of her work. I have been following her very closely because I love the idea that she has kind of broken through in a very male-dominated industry of journalism and she, you know, recently won a Logie we saw and, you know, there's lots to be proud of of what she's achieved and the way she's gone about it I felt like her presentation was good.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm not terribly critical about what she said. There were some really good ah practical tips there. I was just a little underwhelmed at her presentation. Now, I know she's not always been a TV journalist in the sense of presenting. I know she's more of an interviewer, but I have to say i walked away from it.
00:20:40
Speaker
I've made some notes of of positive things I've got as takeaways, but I was a little underwhelmed by the presentation overall. So do you mean what she said or her presentation style or both? I think more about the style. I've made some really good notes about her content and what she was sharing in relation to the connection of, you know, interviews and journalism and, you know, preparing. And there were there were lots of key takeaways that were really highly relevant to recruitment and she had bridged that gap really well.
00:21:12
Speaker
But I felt that her presentation style was ah little rehearsed. I don't know. i wanted it to feel more more like, you know, the the topic was storytelling and I felt like she didn't tell many stories. I felt like she wanted to drop in key things that she needed to, including some key names and and she name dropped a little bit. But, you know, i felt like I wanted her to tell more stories that would then relate to teachable moments. But
00:21:43
Speaker
You know, she stood still behind the lectern. That's always, you know, and it was an hour presentation or I think a little bit longer. You know, she stood completely still behind the lectern. She didn't move. she There were no slides. There was no visual aids to it.
00:21:57
Speaker
It was just her delivering and her delivery was not outstanding. And so it was easy to kind of go, oh, I'm feeling, my mind's drifting here. I'm not listening. Really?
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah. I had the complete opposite experience. Like I found her mesmerising. She didn't need slides and she's got such command over her voice and the use of language, which I found compelling.
00:22:23
Speaker
And I disagree. I think she told a couple of really good stories. I thought the stories she told about interviewing Shane Warne I found fascinating. And then she spoke about Kate McClymont, who's clearly one of Australia's most decorated investigative reporters.
00:22:39
Speaker
So the point she was making was pay close attention to things, follow your natural curiosity. And the example she shared, which I thought was a great story about Kate McClymont, was when um Eastern Suburbs private school parents were complaining or i wondered, how does a union boss have expensive overseas holidays and outbid everybody at the school auction every year? And this is referring to Michael Williamson, who ultimately finished up being jailed for three years for um corruption, for basically ripping off union members to the tune of a million dollars. So I thought that was a great story. It made a great point.
00:23:17
Speaker
And, yeah, look, clearly we're looking at different things, but ah to me, Lee Sales is one of the highlights of the whole conference. Oh, well, that's good. I'm glad that you enjoyed it. And I do like that we have a slightly different view of it. Not everyone's going to experience every speaker in the same way at a conference, and this is a good example of that.
Upcoming Training Programs Announcement
00:23:36
Speaker
That's a wrap for part one of our Shape Summary. We won't make you wait too much longer. We're going to release part two this coming Thursday where you'll hear more about the speakers on day two.
00:23:47
Speaker
and more about some of the social events that occurred. But Ross, you've got an update for us on some upcoming courses. Yes, all three of my public programs are available for registration. My Rookie Recruiter Training Program, which starts on the 23rd of September. My Advanced Recruiter Program, which is the first one starting. So that's starting on the 18th of September.
00:24:09
Speaker
And my Leadership Coaching for High Performance, which is for Team Leaders. And that starts on the 8th of October. Something at every level there, Ross. How do we find out how do more? How do we join up? How do we sign up? ah Pretty straightforward. Just go to rossclinit.com and on the homepage, you'll see the buttons with the names of my program. So you just click on the buttons to read more about the content, the pricing and all the dates for the sessions.
00:24:35
Speaker
Go do it now.