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Wonder Woman 1984
143 Plays4 years ago
Wonder Woman 1984 has debuted on HBO Max and we can't really understand why Patty Jenkins would set this in the 80s and then not really use the era to her advantage. We also have comments about Pedro Pascal's Trumpian Maxwell Lord and critiques about a bunch of choices made in this movie. But it's not all bad—we've got some positive thoughts about the performances, particularly Chris Pine and Kristen Wiig.
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Transcript
Promotion with Audible
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey Derek, guess what? Hit me with it. We just got a promotion with Audible. Audible, fantastic. I love Audible. Do you know what the cool thing about this deal is? What's that? If our listeners go to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod, they get a free trial with Audible. And do you know what they get with that?
00:00:22
Speaker
What do they get with that? Tell me. They get one free audiobook of their choice and they get two free Audible Originals, which is special content that Audible makes available free for all its subscribers. Are you kidding me? That deal is so good I may go myself and sign them. Do you think they let you keep the books after you're done?
00:00:43
Speaker
No, you're not gonna tell me they let you keep the books after you're done. Yes, in fact, you can go sign up for a trial and you can cancel before the trial ends and you get to keep the books you've already downloaded.
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, I don't see how you can beat that with a stick. Exactly, yeah. And you get lots of great books, especially for fans of the show. You can listen to Super Gods by Grant Morrison, which is all about how the superhero comics have changed and evolved over
Introductions and Personal Updates
00:01:10
Speaker
time. Or you can check out Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. Which is a terrific book. I have that both in hardcover and I listened to that on Audible myself in my car while traveling back and forth.
00:01:21
Speaker
And there's also another similar book that's called Slugfest, which is about like the wars between Marvel and DC Comics. Oh, okay. So that's another one you got to check out too. So yeah, head on over to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod and start your free trial right now. You got one free audio book and two free audible originals, and you can keep them even if you cancel before it's over.
00:01:59
Speaker
Change your life. Anything you want. Anything you dream of, you can have it. Do you know where this star goes? Diana, look at you. It's like now one day has passed. I don't want to be like anyone. I want to be an apex predator.
00:02:31
Speaker
You've always had everything. While people like me have had nothing. Well, now it's my turn. Get used to it. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I am half of your host, Perry Constantine. And I am the other half, Derek Ferguson, coming to you from Brooklyn, New York. And I'm coming to you from Kagoshima, Japan. And I've got a baby who is actually sleeping.
Political Relief Post-Inauguration
00:02:59
Speaker
So that is good.
00:03:01
Speaker
How are you doing today, Derek? Don't make too much noise. I'm doing fine. Thank you for asking. I'm doing fine. I spent a long day watching the inauguration of a new president.
00:03:17
Speaker
Joseph Biden, God bless him. It was nice because for the past four years, every morning I've woken up and I've been like, well, I got to see what crises is happening now in the world. And this is the first time when I'm just like, I wake up and I'm like, you know what? I don't have to check the news right now.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's how I was. It's like I would turn on the news and it was in the back of my mind. OK, well, let me see what he does started now. You know, what crazy is he started that? And a lot of that is going now. Yeah, a lot of things. You know, he's still out there. He's doing his thing, but he's not in the White House. He's not, you know, so.
00:03:51
Speaker
Listen, I'm easy to please. As long as he's not there, I'm happy, you know? Yeah. Let him do whatever he want to do. You know, go back to TV or whatever. Although the latest rumor now is that he's going to start his own political party. Oh, God, I hope. I hope he does. I hope he does, too. That'll be so funny. Yeah, I hope he does, too. You're talking about entertaining. Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
You know, let all the crazies go follow him. Exactly. Let them all go follow him. Yeah. And leave the rest of us alone. Yeah.
WandaVision's Nostalgic Homage
00:04:25
Speaker
But otherwise, I watched the first two episodes of WandaVision. Which is creating a considerable amount of controversy among MCU fans.
00:04:39
Speaker
I don't get it. Like, I don't get why people are thinking, I mean, they told you exactly what the show's gonna be. And then people are complaining that that's what the show is. God bless. See, this is my thing. This is one of the most heavily publicized TV shows of like the last six, eight months.
00:04:56
Speaker
The premise of the show was stated very plainly for anybody who can read English in numerous articles and they knew it. So I don't understand. What did you think he was getting? Age of Ultron part two? Yeah. I don't understand it. You know why people say, oh, well, I didn't know I was going to get it. And I think a lot of it has to do with that.
00:05:16
Speaker
you know, because I grew up with sitcoms like, you know, The Dick Van Dyke Show. You know, so I recognize the source material and maybe what it is is that you have a lot of younger people who didn't grow up with that and they just don't, you know, they don't see why this should be funny or why this is, well, it's more satirical than funny, really. It is, it is, yeah. But you know, the difference in that it,
00:05:42
Speaker
The difference is, I don't go so far as to say it's satirical because you can tell there's not, because satire is often used as a way to kind of tear something down. But this, you see, there's a genuine love of the sitcom format, I think.
00:05:57
Speaker
Well, they got Dick Van Dyke. He was a consultant. Right. Yeah. You know, so I mean, yeah, so I mean, it is like a love letter to, you know, those sitcoms from the 50s, the 60s and 70s, because I see that now they when they got to the end of the second episode, they went from black and white to color. So yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
70s now so okay. Well yeah if you've seen the in the trailer because they have like um they've got uh they're moving into like the 70s sitcoms where they've got so you can tell like they've got like uh in the trailer show them like their house is a kind of like a 70s style set and it seems like it's got kind of a Brady Bunch feel to it. Like a Brady Bunch kind of look yeah exactly you know yeah so I don't know like I said I think maybe what is that a lot of younger
00:06:39
Speaker
viewers of the show, they just didn't grow up with sitcoms like I did. So like I said, I recognize the source material and you know, and I'm having a good time with it. And you know, the acting is great. Paul Bettany is hilarious. I was so surprised at that. Like he, like, you know, we knew he was, he had, he was, he was witty, right? Cause he was very witty. He was witty, right. Yeah. Like when he played Jarvis, like he had that, he had that timing down pat, but I never knew he was just so like slapsticky funny.
00:07:07
Speaker
I love the scene in the first episode where he's at work. He's over there and the guy, him and him, they're doing the folders and everything like that. And he stops, he says, okay, let me just ask you a question. What is it exactly we do here? It's the way he says it. And he said, and yo,
00:07:23
Speaker
I was reminded of all those TV sitcoms where you never was really sure what the husband did. He left out and went to the office. Yeah. But what he actually did at the office was never really spelled out exactly. Right. That cracked me up a lot. He said, oh, well, you know, we do this and we do that. And he said, yeah, but what do we do?
00:07:45
Speaker
So, yeah. It's just the way he says it. He says it with the right inflection and doing his head like that. So, yeah. Well, also like the little comments he makes about to remind people that he tries to pretend to be human. Yeah. They're like, wow, you're a machine. He's like, no, I'm not. Who told you that? Yeah. He's like, no, I've got no skeletons at all. Like the very first episode where
00:08:14
Speaker
they have the heart that's on the calendar and they're trying to figure out what it is. And they just say, well, it must be our anniversary. Well, 90% of sitcoms
Streaming Services Showdown
00:08:26
Speaker
is based upon some kind of confusion or somebody gets something wrong or somebody misunderstands, misunderstanding is the basis of most, you know, sitcom. So that was like, when I saw that, I said, yeah, that's like a classic sitcom, you know,
00:08:42
Speaker
That right there, that's the plot. Yeah, I think I read something online, like some meme or something where they're like, you know, if Seinfeld were made today, like 90% of the episodes would have to be thrown out because they could all be sold by cell phones. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's, yeah, but like I said, it's entertaining. And I like, you know, much like the Mandalorian, I like that they're only dropping one episode a week.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, we were talking about this in our Facebook group and you and some other people said that you definitely prefer the weekly format. And me, I do see where you guys are coming with that. I got kind of like two minds of it, because I do like the idea, the anticipation aspect is kind of fun. It is nice where you don't feel that pressure like, oh, I got to watch this all tonight, because otherwise it's going to be spoiled tomorrow. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:34
Speaker
At the other hand, too, there is also something kind of fun about being able to just sit down a weekend and just watch the whole series. Well, well, you know what? That, too, because there have been series that I've sat down and I've watched like a whole season in one weekend. And in some ways, yeah, I like just watching it and getting it over with. Yeah. You know, and in other ways, but I guess after doing that for so long, this is a welcome change where it's OK. Well, I've got something to look forward to Friday. OK, well, Amanda Lawrence coming on Friday. I can watch that.
00:10:04
Speaker
You know, now, of course, you know, we have WandaVision. So I said, okay, good, that's something good. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to it, because I think the next episode is going to be dropping tonight. So I'm looking forward to watching that. But yeah, it's a fun show, and I like that it's got this, they do a really good job of kind of showing that there is something weird going on here.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's something like, reminds me almost of David Lynch, in a way. Yeah, it's got that type of feel like when the big guy when the guy doesn't head on the B outfit came up out of the thing that was a that was like something out of day. Well, like when when
00:10:47
Speaker
When in the first episode, when his boss starts choking and his wife is just laughing, it's like, oh, stop it, stop it. And the way she's laughing, it's just, it's so unsettling. It gets, yeah, it gets creepy after she just stops. Yeah, yeah, it has, it has the little lynching moments that, yeah, you definitely know there's something going on. I like the little touches.
00:11:07
Speaker
Maybe it should, sorry, maybe it's just me, but because his wife shoots on that 70s show. And I was really hoping to see, oh, what's his name? The actor who plays the dad in that 70s show. He's also- Oh yeah, Kurtwood Smith. Kurtwood Smith, yeah. I was kind of hoping like, man, I was watching that. I'm like, you know what? This would kind of been better if Kurtwood Smith had come back. Yeah, you know what?
00:11:32
Speaker
Thank you. I was saying the same thing because I said, oh shit, Debbie Joe Ruck. I said, yeah, that's every show. Cool. And I said, damn, how come they didn't get Kurt with a husband? That would have been perfect. That would have been perfect. But, but, you know, maybe he's doing something else. Maybe he was busy. Maybe he's retired from acting. Maybe. Yeah. I haven't actually seen him in like anything in a while. So that's why I'm saying maybe he's retired from acting or maybe I hope not. You know, maybe he's an ill health.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Filming. Yeah. But yeah, but I haven't seen him in anything for a while, which leads me to think that he just retired from acting. Yeah. Well, so they got a Catherine Hahn is really good at it, too. Oh, yeah. She's good at anything. Yeah. But you know, I got to know I've got a theory about her because she said her name is Agnes. My theory is maybe she's Agatha Harkness.
00:12:22
Speaker
That, yeah, as soon as I heard the name, I said, cause it's too close to Agatha to be a coincidence. Yeah. And she, she does kind of seem to like kind of be on the, kind of like have a feeling about, she kind of seems to know some stuff. And there's always, and there's also something slightly creepy about how she's so eager to help out. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like she comes with all the food and everything like that. And, you know, and she comes with the pineapple. Why would you bring a pineapple?
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's something, yeah. I mean, there's something going on with her. We know it. Yeah. There's something going on with her. There's also the, and you also hear, I think it was the second episode with the radio, and I'm pretty sure that was Randall Park's voice on the radio.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I've read. That's supposed to be Jimmy Woo. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because we know he's in it and Monica Rambeau is going to be in it as well. Yeah, when she showed up at when they went to, you know, the party, yeah, that was her. Oh, okay. I didn't realize that was her. Okay. Yeah, that's her. Okay. I mean, she's using like a different name, but that's her. Right. Yeah. I was wondering if that was her or not, but I wasn't 100% certain because I'm
Wonder Woman 1984: Evolution and Critique
00:13:28
Speaker
not that familiar with the actress who plays her. So I didn't recognize her right away.
00:13:31
Speaker
And the fact that she's using a different name says to me that she knows more about what's going on too. Maybe she's been implanted into this alternate reality in some way or somehow, but she pretty much knows what's going on. There's also that moment when the beekeeper comes up and Wanda says no and rewind stuff and then change the outcome. So it's really interesting to see where it's gonna go from here. I'm hooked already.
00:14:00
Speaker
And I had no idea, you know, I read this on the internet, which is good for some things that that design on the back of his outfit is the sword. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I recognize that. I didn't pick up on. Yeah. Well, then they also have you've got I'm pretty sure that's Darcy at the end, kind of like monitoring. And they got the sword logo there as well. OK. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I'm pretty sure that damage on her face, but I'm pretty certain that's Darcy.
00:14:29
Speaker
doing that. And they got the little things like the commercial with the Baron Strucker, you know, the watch. Someone pointed this out online and I thought it was really clever where they said like the, you had the watch, you know, Strucker's watch and you had the Stark microwave. Yeah, yeah. And someone pointed out somewhere online that, you know, those were like the two biggest traumas Wanda had dealt with in her life so far. True, yeah. The Stark bomb that killed her parents
00:14:59
Speaker
and then, you know, Strucker's experiments on her. So I thought, yeah. And I never, I didn't even realize that. I just thought it was like, you know, a fun little Easter egg. And I'm like, Oh my God, they're right that that makes a lot of sense. And supposedly, the watch is pointing to 824. And that's supposed to mean something as well. I don't remember what it was. But yeah, but I read and I said, Oh, I gotta go back and read because it was kind of like a lengthy article that I was doing something else.
00:15:22
Speaker
where it was an article that was pointing out all these little things, which is one of the joys of this show is because after I finished reading this article, I'm going to go back and I'm going to look for these things. Because obviously, there's a lot I caught, but there's just as much that I missed, which I love because there's a lot implanted into this series. And I think by the time that we get to the end of it, we're going to be saying, oh, shit. OK, that's what it all means. Yeah, I think it's going to be something a little bit
00:15:52
Speaker
Well, not a little bit but way more complicated than just being an alternate reality, or, you know, some kind of simulation or something like that I think that the nation is going to be
00:16:02
Speaker
way more cosmic than we think because as I've said before and you know people if you've been following us for a while you know my theory I firmly believe that this is going to tie into the Dr. Strange uh movie and multiverse spider-man movie with all the different spider-man yeah I believe this is all and yeah all of this is going to be connected
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to end up with a restructuring of the reality of the MCU. So now I'm not really, not a whole bunch of news that I've kind of been paying attention to, but one thing really caught my eye this past week. And it looks like HBO Max is thinking about doing a sequel series to Batman the Animated Series. Yeah, I heard that.
00:16:49
Speaker
which opens up some cool questions, like, and someone pointed this out on the Facebook group, like, what does this mean? Like, are they gonna tie it into, because remember in the show, Batman Beyond, The Return of the Joker, it showed Robin
00:17:04
Speaker
Tim Drake being manipulated by the Joker and then quitting afterwards. And so there's the, you know, like, and it was an obviously the Joker died in that too. So there's kind of like this. So there's one of them like, were they going to set it after that? Were they going to set it before that? And so my kind of theory is if they, assuming all this is true, right, assuming this is all happening, that if they do go that route, they probably do it in kind of like, they probably start, start presenting that and beyond as like an alternate reality type thing.
00:17:35
Speaker
And then, cause so then they wouldn't be tied down to have like, okay, well we got to kill Robin eventually or kill a Joker eventually. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I, I mean, I think that first of all, that Batman in the animated series is arguably probably what most people now best know Batman. Really? Yeah. I think, you know, I think so. I think if you ask people, okay, well, what's your favorite,
00:18:02
Speaker
you know, Batman thing, the movies or, oh no, Batman, the animated series. And I don't think that they should monkey with it. Really, I don't. I don't think they're trying, I'm a big believer in not trying to go back and capture lightning in a bottle. Cause we're talking about a series that's like,
00:18:22
Speaker
What is it now, like more than 20 years old? Something like that, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's so beloved by, you know, so many fans. I would hate to think that they would spoil it. Maybe, you know, maybe if they could, you know what, if Bruce Timm is involved in it, then it's in good hands. Yeah, yeah. You know. So, whether that happens or not, it'll be, it'll be interesting. I'm like, even though, and it's like revival series are kind of a mixed bag. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Like,
00:18:51
Speaker
Arrested Development did not work when they went back to that. Family Guy did not work when they went back to that. But other ones have worked. I actually like the X-Files revival. I know a lot of people didn't like it, but I actually kind of enjoyed it. And there are a few other ones. I'm blanking right now, but there are some other ones that I've seen that I've enjoyed. But for some reason, I'm just blanking on
00:19:16
Speaker
on the one on the titles right now but there have been some that I've oh Veronica Mars that was another that was another revival series they went back there and they did a sequel series to that and that was really good too so I mean listen as far as I'm concerned now anyway you know a trio max can't do no longer for as I'm concerned now because you know they
00:19:36
Speaker
I mean, with them announcing that all Warner Brothers movies is going to be on there for this year. And it looks to me like they're just going to be throwing a whole bunch of their superhero stuff on here now. So, hey, I'm in seventh heaven. Somebody was telling me the other day, they would say, oh, how come you didn't tell me they had all that superhero stuff on there?
00:19:58
Speaker
I said, I did tell you, what are you talking about? They got a whole section labeled DC. That's what I told this cat. I said, man, if you go there, look, you're going to see DC. I said, you're going to lose your mind. I said, because everything is on me. And he said, man, I lost two days. He said, you can't look at anything. You posted this in one of your groups asking people what their favorite streaming service is.
00:20:22
Speaker
And it was actually, I was surprised at how tough a choice it was for me between Netflix and HBO Max, because HBO Max is like the shiny new toy I just got.
00:20:31
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's that's it for a lot of people. I thought it was interesting that a lot of people said that it was hard for them because there were things in each one of the streaming services that they did like, you know, and things that they didn't like. Like you pointed out quite accurately that, you know, the Amazon Prime interface. I mean, oh, God, it's terrible.
00:20:53
Speaker
Terrible interface, yeah. You know, I answered you, I said, I can always tell when I'm in the basement writing, because folks, that's where I spend most of my time during the day, in the basement writing. I can always tell when Patricia's trying to write something on Amazon Prime, because she doesn't cuss a lot. When she cusses, you know, I said, oh, she's trying to write something on Amazon. And then five or 10 minutes later, she, Derek! Derek! And I say, go up there, what's the matter? I can't get this, yeah. But, you know, yeah, it does, it's horrible. In comparison,
00:21:23
Speaker
HBO Max is magnificent. Oh, it's so good. I mean, easy to find what you want, easy to navigate. Especially like they've got the different areas, right? Like they've got a cartoon network section, they got a DC section, they got all these different... I think it's probably out of all the services, I think they do the best of making it really easy to find.
00:21:47
Speaker
Well, yeah, they got the Cartoon Network. They got the one for the anime section. They got one just for Looney Tunes. They got Turner Classic movies. They got that. So, okay, here's the thing.
00:22:02
Speaker
It's not supposed to be difficult for you to find what you want to watch. You're supposed to be able to fire it up and within two minutes you're watching whatever you want to watch. That's what HBO Max does. That's one of the things that annoys me about Amazon and also Netflix to a lesser extent is that just like Hulu and HBO Max
00:22:20
Speaker
and Disney Plus as well. They've got this option where you can view all the titles they have. Netflix doesn't let you do that on the apps. You can only do that on the website on the computer, which is a pain in the freaking ass.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you met Disney Plus too. Disney Plus makes, like you said, they got everything in sections. You want to watch the old classics like Dumbo or Pinocchio or something like that. It's in one section. If you want to watch Marvel, it's in one section. You want to watch Star Wars. It's not hard to find what you want to watch. You fire it up and in two minutes, you're watching what you want to watch, which is what it's supposed to be. Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker
Okay. Well, that's actually a good transition because we are talking about an HBO Max debut movie today. And that's Wonder Woman 1984. Yeah. Yeah. It was the, matter of fact, it was the movie that made a big splash and got a lot of people to subscribe. Yeah. Myself included. Like that's what pushed me to finally get my subscription.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, I know quite a few people that had told me, oh, I'm not going to another subscription store. But then once they said they were gonna put Wonder Woman 84 on there, and then when they made the announcement that they were gonna, that Warner Brothers said, well, we're gonna put our whole entire, you know, 2021 Slater movies on there. I mean, here's some of the takeaways from that list. Like we've got the Suicide Squad is gonna be on there, Dune, Godzilla versus Kong, the third Conjuring movie,
00:23:49
Speaker
Mortal Kombat, there's a Tom and Jerry movie apparently coming out, The Matrix 4, and the Space Jam sequel. Like everybody really demanded a Space Jam sequel, okay. I don't even know anybody who liked the first Space Jam. You know what I liked?
00:24:13
Speaker
Okay, I like the space jam, the first one for a couple of reasons. A couple of reasons, because I thought it was clever that they use the premise of this movie to explain why Michael Jordan had retired from basketball and took a baseball. That was actually part of the, because this movie took place during that weird period where he just decided that he wanted to be a baseball player. Yeah, well, yeah, that was something cool that Tim Word said, like after that adventure, he decided to go back to basketball.
00:24:40
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So I thought it was clever of them to actually work that into the pot. And there's a scene where Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck are actually comparing their merchandising deals. And they're hard hit about it. And I thought that that was brilliant that they did that. Otherwise, and then they had the Bill Murray cameo. Oh, yeah, Bill. Anytime you got a Bill Murray cameo, it's always Yeah, yeah. It's got parts of it that are extremely clever. But on the whole,
00:25:06
Speaker
It's like a movie, okay, well, it's fun, but it's not like classic Looney Tunes. There's no running. Right, exactly, yeah. But anyway, so Wonder Woman 1984. Now, I don't know what your feeling was at the first Wonder Woman, but me, I loved it. Although the third act had some problems, but overall, I thought it was like the first time since
00:25:33
Speaker
the dark night that DC had made that we'd gotten actually really good DC movie. And it was the first time since, you know, really Superman returns that we got a DC movie that was not only good, but was also, you know, had a hopeful tone to it. Yeah. Yeah. Because Wonder Woman is a different type of superhero. And I'm a big believer in that every superhero should have a different way that they deal with
00:26:01
Speaker
their job of nemesizing evil. Like Iron Man, he does it through technology. Thor, he does it by just pounding the shit out of you with his hammer. Batman does it through fear and intimidation. And detective work. Right, detective work. Superman does it through inspiration and
00:26:25
Speaker
He's got ridiculous superpowers so that he can do anything he wants. But yeah, but everything should have a different tone. I think that they did that with Wonder Woman in that she's not just into just pounding the piss out of people. She believes in inspiring and giving hope.
00:26:40
Speaker
and making you see that there's another way, a better way to accomplish your goals or whatever angst you're going through, you know, you can deal with it another way other than hurting other people. Which was something that got a little bit annoying in the post-crisis comics when they were, it was almost like they were trying to turn Wonder Woman into a female Thor.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that trick never works. Yeah. They've done that a couple of times where they basically tried to turn her into a female version of Thor. And that doesn't, cause Thor is, Thor is a totally different, you know, character. I mean, from Wonder Woman. So.
00:27:16
Speaker
But I understand they got that whole thing where she's connected to the gods going on and everything like that. But nah, she's her own woman and should be treated that way, which is what these two movies do. Now Wonder Woman 84, to a lesser extent, we can get into it. But the first one, yeah, I mean, I had no problems with that movie at all. And I'm not even, I've never really been a Wonder Woman fan, but like I,
00:27:43
Speaker
Like I went nuts during that No Man's Land sequence. Oh yeah, well everybody did. I mean Wonder Woman, like most people, I, you know, well I had read her in the comic books, but I never actually recalled buying a Wonder Woman comic book. If I bought it,
00:28:02
Speaker
I remember her mostly from Justice League of America. Right, same thing. Yeah, that's where I would read that. And I was a fan of the TV show. I did briefly, now here's the thing, I did briefly read the comic during that period in the 70s where she lost her superpowers and they turned her into Emma Peele. Oh, it was Dennis O'Neill, right?
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah, it took away her powers and- He thought about doing that because the whole idea was he thought he was trying to do like a feminist
00:28:38
Speaker
a pro-feminist take on Wonder Woman, and then the feminists were like, no, no, you're stripping her of her powers. That's not good. Yeah, that's not pro-feminist when you take away her powers, you know. And yeah, but that's what he did. He gave her like an Asian sidekick who trained her in martial arts and stuff like that. And yeah, they turned her into Emma Peele. Yeah. I recall briefly reading it then.
00:29:03
Speaker
And I did not read the character until like years later, but that's when George Perez took over. Yeah, that was in the post-crisis era, I think, in the 80s. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:13
Speaker
But again, it's George Perez. And George Perez knows these characters better than a lot of people. So Wonder Woman has always been one of those characters that's always had this up and down, up and down, up and down. She was always popular, I think, but she was never popular enough that she sold Superman or Batman, to be honest. She never sold those types of numbers.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, I know that like in, as far as Wonder Woman writers go, I know that there have been a few standouts that, there are a few names that always come up. There's George Perez, obviously. Danny O'Neill comes up and not in a positive way. But also there's Gil Simone, of course, and Greg Rucka. Like those are like the big names that come, the big three names, Perez, Simone and Rucka are like the ones that always come up about Wonder Woman.
00:30:14
Speaker
So, I mean, so. And it's all fairly recent. Like you, when you talk like Superman or Batman, like you can, you go back to like the, the sixties or the seventies or even the golden age, and you find there are a lot of writers that are, have those, with Wonder Woman, you don't have like, it's only recently that I've been able to remember the name of her creator, William Marston Wilson. William Marston, CIO, you know, I'm screwed up. It's something like that. Don't worry about it.
00:30:43
Speaker
But it is interesting that those names don't stand, his name doesn't stand out as much as say like Stanley, Jack Kirby, Bill Finger, Bob Kane, Siegel and Shuster, Simon and all that. But- Well, that's because when he created Wonder Woman, he had a definite political agenda behind creating the character. And there's a documentary slash biography about him.
00:31:12
Speaker
that uh I gotta find the name of it I don't remember the name of it but this cat was apparently had a very freaky life oh he was uh he was a freak um trying to yeah William Moulton Moulton Marston was Moulton Marston yeah um and um
00:31:31
Speaker
looking up the documentary title now. Professor Marston and the Wonder Women. Yeah, that's the one. That wasn't a documentary, that was a biographical drama. A biographical drama, okay.
00:31:43
Speaker
Apparently, a lot of his views about feminism and sexuality and all that kind of stuff found his way into Wonder Woman. Oh, yeah, yeah. He was very big on, yeah. He was in a polyamorous relationship with his wife and Olive Byrne. And those two women, they were a huge influence on Wonder Woman.
00:32:08
Speaker
And apparently they helped them write, you know, and they had input into the scripts and stories or whatever, yeah. And he said, like his whole goal was, you know, he wanted an idea for a new kind of superhero who would conquer not with fist or firepower, but with love. And it was his wife who said, make her a woman. And yeah, and he was very much like his version of Themyscira was, you know, a utopia.
00:32:37
Speaker
And it is kind of funny that they did go the warrior woman route later on in the 90s, because it's kind of like the opposite of what he actually intended for her to be. But then again, they only brought the Amazons back to what they originally were, because that's what they are. They are a warrior society. Yeah, you know, they brought, which I'm glad that is reflected, you know, in
00:33:00
Speaker
these movies that Wonder Woman appears. And matter of fact, one of my favorite parts of Justice League is when they're trying to keep the mother box away from, what's his name? What's the big, bad name? What's his name? You know, Steppenwolf. You know, when he comes to Paradise Island, he comes to take it. And they're defending it. That's one of my favorite scenes in there, because it shows how badass the Amazons are. Matter of fact, they should just do a whole movie about the Amazons now, as far as I'm concerned.
00:33:28
Speaker
Paradise Island versus Wakanda or something. That would be that. That would be interesting, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so like the first movie, you know, wonderful, and also like just the chemistry between Gal Gadot and Chris Pine was amazing. Like they're just, they worked really well together on screen. And so, but the thing about this movie is, I don't know, this was definitely kind of a letdown, I gotta be honest.
00:33:58
Speaker
And like right from the start, I started getting a little nervous because the opening scene reminded me of Superman three and not in a good way. Well, just like, you know, remember in Superman three, there was that whole opening sequence where it's like kind of this like goofy superhero type sequence.
00:34:21
Speaker
It felt like very much the same vibe in Wonder Woman. We're talking about the scene that's in the shopping mall where she foils a robbery. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And just like it very much had that kind of like campy type of feel to it, which
00:34:37
Speaker
I kind of understand what Patty Jenkins was kind of going for. Like, you know, I was trying to say like, you know, this is a, this is a brighter superhero movie and kind of set in the tone, like more like the eighties mindset. I get all that, but it just still, it didn't really work for me. I don't know. How'd you feel about that? Well, that's, that's what I've read. I mean, this isn't my theory, but I have read this in various Facebook groups that
00:35:04
Speaker
the intention that Patty Jenkins was going for was to make a movie, which is why it's called Wonder Woman 84, to make a movie that felt like it could have been made in 1984. That's the feeling she was trying to go for, not just to have it being set in 1984, but when you're watching it, you're supposed to feel like, well, this is like a lost movie from 1984 I've never seen before. She didn't achieve that for me because
00:35:34
Speaker
And here's the thing, there actually really is no reason for this movie to be set in 1984. That was something that was bugging me too. Like if you're going to call a movie, like, you know, even though I do have issues with first class, X-Men first class, I do understand why it was set during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It makes sense for that movie to be set during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but it didn't make sense for say X-Men Apocalypse or Dark Phoenix to be set in the eighties and the nineties respectively, just like it didn't make sense for this movie to be set in the eighties.
00:36:04
Speaker
because outside of the fashions and the automobiles, there is no effort to make you feel like it is 1984. We don't hear the pop songs of that era. We don't hear the slang of that era. The president, well, whoever the president was in 1984, that's who he should have been instead of just this generic guy. Right. I was thinking, I'm like, I guess that's kind of Reagan-ish, but he wasn't.
00:36:35
Speaker
You know what, they could have found a better job of finding somebody to look like Ronald Reagan. It's so weird that you're hedging on that because you go all out with making Pedro Pascal Maxwell Lord an obvious Trump analog. So, you know what, so obvious.
00:36:54
Speaker
It went the other way and it took me out the movie, because it's so obvious he's supposed to be Donald Trump. Yeah, that I say you know some. I get enough Donald Trump in my day to day life, I don't want to see him into. Yeah, I mean I get what you're trying to go, but you could have done.
00:37:12
Speaker
Less, less is more, I think, and I think that's something that Patty Jenkins should have kept in mind with this movie because it felt like, you know, I can understand like you know doing a little bit of camp in the opening sequence fine but I think she went to it. I think she went overboard with all these like too much into the camp too much into the Trump analog.
00:37:30
Speaker
then but then she but then she pulls back on other things like she doesn't go not enough into the 80s feel like the guardians of the galaxy movies felt more like 80s movies than this one did it you know you you took the thought right out of my head because i was going to say that in another minute so yeah guardians of the galaxy feels more like a 1980s movie than this one did because and i'm looking at i'm saying yeah you know there really is no reason for this movie to be set
00:37:57
Speaker
in 1984. I really don't. Pedro Pascal, I love him, he did a great job in The Mandalorian, but here he was just, matter of fact, him and Kristen Wiig, who is excellent in this movie, don't get me wrong, but
00:38:17
Speaker
They struck me the same way that Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey did in Batman, you know, forever. Well, right from the beginning, I got a very Jim Carrey vibe from what, from what they were doing with barber men are about.
00:38:32
Speaker
She was kind of like a mashup of the Riddler and the Catwoman from Batman. Remember how clumsy Selena, dropping the papers all over the place? Yeah, that's some Selena College shit, you know, and stammering and stumbling over, you know. And I said, oh, okay. Well, I see where they're going with it. And then like kind of the obsession.
00:38:52
Speaker
to their credit, it's not as extreme as what they did in Batman Forever or what they did in Amazing Spider-Man 2 with Electro, but it still was kind of like, really? Come on. But like I said before, I love Kristen Wiig, and I think she did a fantastic job in this movie. Oh, she did a great job. Like, you know what? Fantastic. Well, one of the things I thought was really interesting is that, you know,
00:39:20
Speaker
Kristen Wiig is attractive, right? But she doesn't have kind of that image of being like a knockout or anything like that, right? But in this, she really managed to pull off that when she becomes sexy. Like she was able to really convey that very well, I thought. Yeah, she makes a convincing transformation. And one reason I like her, Kristen Wiig, is that
00:39:43
Speaker
And this is something that I do from time to time when people say, okay, what do you think about this actress? Well, I like this actress because of this reason, I dislike her, but I have another criteria. There are some actresses that I could imagine walking down the street. And if I ran into them, I would expect to see them walking down the street. Gal Gadot, I could not imagine seeing her walking down the street. Kristen Wiig, I could. If I ran into Kristen Wiig in the McDonald's, you know what? I honestly wouldn't be surprised. She just has that kind of vibe. Gal Gadot, I probably would say,
00:40:15
Speaker
Like, you know, like there's some actresses, you can't see them doing stuff like that. Like just walking down the street or something like, okay. That's it. But as you accurately point out, she does that make, convincingly make that transformation to this sexy bombshell that we see later on in the movie. Yeah. So she did a good job with that. I thought that, and you know,
00:40:38
Speaker
I also, I loved Chris Pine to this. Like I, especially like, you know what? I would see a movie just with Chris Pine playing a man at a time. Yeah. Like, I mean, go remake, what was that Mel Gibson movie? Forever Young. Go remake that movie with Chris Pine. I would love that. That, does he? Yeah. He managed to do, that was like probably the most convincing performance I've ever seen of a man at a time. You know what? And this is something that you don't usually see.
00:41:07
Speaker
He's actually happy to be in another time. Yeah, yeah. So he gets to see all this cool shit that's, you know, that he got excited from a subway train. Yeah. I mean, he got excited about Pop-Tarts, right? She wakes up in the morning, rolls over, and he's stuffing Pop-Tarts in his mouth. Yeah, I mean, you know, and to me, that was refreshing because usually you see people that, you know, during another time, they start freaking out, you know, they turn on the TV and they say, oh, it's the instrument of the devil and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:34
Speaker
He is intensely fascinated and delighted by everything he sees. There are two. I love to see what he's trying on the clothes. Yes. And Diana is thinking, oh, nah, man, go take this shit off. Oh, and he loves the fanny pack. I love that he's like, look at this. Look at this thing. He will not let go with that thing. This thing is like, oh, my god. He said, I can put stuff in here. Look at this. And Diana just standing there shaking her head. Yeah. It's funny. We've now watched two superhero movies that featured a fanny pack in a prominent way.
00:42:06
Speaker
It's a trend, bro. It's a trend. Fanny Pack superhero movies. It's a whole genre onto itself. But also just his wonderment when he sees the plane, right? Yeah. And it really made you feel like he really is a pilot. He does such a good job conveying that. Although I have my doubts that a guy from World War I
00:42:34
Speaker
would just be able to get in the cockpit of a fighter jet and be able to- Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that- No matter how good he is, you know, a matter of fact, I have a problem with that whole scene anyway, because it seems, and it goes back to something else that bothered me about this movie. Apparently Diane has been doing nothing all these years, but sitting around moping, you know, for Steve. That's one of the things, like, I, there was another, cause this, the Justice League movies really kind of put Wonder Woman in a box.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Because you end in World War I, and then the impression you get from Batman v Superman and Justice League is that she's been separated from the world, like, because she hasn't been involved in the world. But then you see her in this movie, which is set in the 80s, and, you know, she's like in, I don't care, like, if you're, I don't care how secret you're trying to be,
00:43:28
Speaker
if you're dressed in like, you know, a bright red and blue Greco Roman outfit with a golden lasso, swinging around a shopping mall with all these witnesses, I don't care how many security cameras you damage. And she only damaged three. She took her offer to Yara and, yeah, okay, well, that's them three, but what about the other 30? And not only the, she attacked the fricking White House. You're telling me they don't have tons of security cameras in the, like, it's just,
00:43:55
Speaker
It makes no, it doesn't really make sense for why everyone's like, oh, who are you? Where have you been all this time? It doesn't make sense at all. See, my whole thing was that they should have went with that. You know, she has been working
00:44:10
Speaker
in kind of like quasi secret. And the government knows who she is. She should have just been able to walk in there and say, give me a jet. And they say, oh, well. And they look at her security thing. Oh, you're Wonder Woman. Yeah, it should have taken whichever one you want. Right. And they should have had her operating in secret. Like, you know, her going to a shopping mall and shopping. That's not the kind of thing you should have her doing. If you want to go with the secret thing, have her go on a mission for the government or something. Yeah. And something like that.
00:44:40
Speaker
And that that would have made a whole lot more sense, especially, you know, not in the in the bright red and blue outfit, like, you know, bring back the dual homage to the 70s outfit and have her go in and that or something like that. And then put it right, you know, because yeah, I mean, because like you said,
00:44:57
Speaker
The shopping mall got three or four floors and people seen her swing around there. Well, the next thing you know these people on T. Well, yeah, there was this woman swing around this golden rope and she was the one that stopped so everybody it's it's
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the first time I saw it, I said, yeah, this doesn't make any sense, but I'm going to go with it and wait till the end of the movie. And then I will, cause I actually, this is like, and I watched it today. I've got on now, as a matter of fact, I watched it because I watched it the first time and the first time I was not sure how I felt about it.
00:45:33
Speaker
I wanted to like it. And I was concerned that my wanting to like it so much because I liked the first one was getting in the way of my objectivity. So I said, well, you know what, I got to watch it again. I watched it again. And I had some of the same concerns that I'm talking to you.
00:45:55
Speaker
the rest of you now about and watching it again today. Yeah, those same concerns are even more stood out even more to me. So which says to me that, yeah, my gut is correct about it. It's not, you know, my, my feelings getting in the way of me being objective. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, here's the thing, it's not a bad movie, right? It is very entertaining. And they do have some great set pieces, like nothing is, but it's nothing is, it's just after how amazing the first one was, like this is a huge step down. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I do not agree with you 100%. It's not a bad movie. The action sequence in the desert,
00:46:39
Speaker
I'm convinced that's a homage to Raiders of the Lost Ark, the crook chasing Raiders of the Lost Ark. And I liked it because it illustrates what sets Wonder Woman apart from other superheroes is that she takes time out of beating the bad guys to save the two kids that's in the road. She's always saving people in this movie, which is her thing. That's what she does. She saves people. And I like that they did that. The White House fight, fantastic. That was great.
00:47:07
Speaker
I'm not so much in love with the final battle at the government, you know, complex. I'm not so crazy about that. But the Cheetah fight, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what that because they made a whole big push marketing push about the fact that Diane is wearing the armor from kingdom come. Right. Yeah. And then you watch it in the movie and it's like,
00:47:37
Speaker
Well, that didn't really do a whole lot, did it? Yeah, that really didn't. That really didn't do much. I mean, Cheetah tore off them wings and like. Yeah. I mean, it's flat. Later for this bullshit. No, I will say that I know a lot of people were complaining about how Cheetah looked, but I actually thought it looked pretty good. I actually thought the design for Cheetah looked fine. I was fine with that. What I didn't like was the fact that, okay, in order to be the woman,
00:48:06
Speaker
She had to electrocute her. Yeah, yeah. But Maxwell Lord, she actually talks to him out of his master plan. Well, also I felt like it kind of, the whole thing about having Maxwell Lord, like basically be the big bill. Like I think they completely, they really undermined the potential that Cheetah had. Yeah. By putting the focus on Maxwell Lord. Right, because if, okay, Wonder Woman,
00:48:36
Speaker
She's the hero that, okay, so her main villain in the movie should be another woman. Okay, Cheetah should have felt that. Well, it's better because Cheetah is like her nemesis in the comic book, so. Yeah, exactly, right. She's like her Joker, her Lex Luthor. Right, so it's like if you did a Batman movie where you had, the Joker was like the henchman of Black Mask.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah, it just it'd be it'd be ridiculous. And that and and cheetah is and that's the cheetah. She's like, you know, Maxwell Lord's, you know, pinch woman. Yeah, you know, and me just one general principle because she's basically she's bane in The Dark Knight Rises. Bingo. Yeah.
00:49:21
Speaker
Good one. But me, basically, I, you know, cause Maxwell Lord is one of my favorite characters. I remember him from, you know, Justice League when he looked like Sam Neill. I mean, the Giffen Daniteus from? Yeah. Yeah. What was it? When it was international, Justice League international. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was running it and everything. And they drew him to look like,
00:49:44
Speaker
Sam Neill. Oh, okay. See, I've never, I'm not familiar with Max Lord really in the comic books. Like the only thing I really, I remember he was part of the countdown to Infinite Crisis. And that was like, I think that may have been like the only thing I really read him in. But other than that, the only really familiar area I have in the character is from Supergirl, the TV show. Oh. Because remember he was like kind of like the Lex Luthor figure in the first season.
00:50:10
Speaker
Well, in the comic books, when it went from being Justice League America to Justice League International, Maxwell Lord came in kind of like to be the administrator of the team. And he was a billionaire, you know, and he worked with Martian Manhunter.
00:50:26
Speaker
who was the leader then and stuff like that. And Oberon from Mr. Miracle was his assistant. And he was like the administrator, you know, and, and, you know, he walked around in the suits and everything like that. And he wasn't like the boss of the team, but since he was financing them and he was acting as like the liaison to the government and stuff like that. And I liked the character a whole lot. That's why I really don't like what they did to him in this movie.
00:50:53
Speaker
I said why couldn't they make I was oh but I was surprised I said when Simon Stagg showed up. I love yeah I was I was surprised by that as well that yeah I said damn why could we have a movie with Maxwell Lord and Simon Stagg. Wait here's something um because I this is something I've always been kind of confused about about Max Lord because I do know that he was the Justice League's administrator but then
00:51:15
Speaker
in these movies, in the TV show, you know, he's like a villain, he's like a, portrayed almost like a Lex Luthor figure. So, like, was there, and I know he was like the, he was part of the villain, he was the villain who killed Ted Kord in Countdown Infinite Crisis, but was there some point between there? Like, how did he go from being the Justice League administrator to being a villain?
00:51:38
Speaker
I don't know, because when they started turning him toward, because yeah, they did eventually turn him toward being a villain. Once they started turning that way, I dropped the comic. I said, you know what, I don't want to read that, which was my way. You know, I was never the type of reader that says, well, you know what, I hate what they're doing to Thor or, you know, whoever, but I'm going to keep reading it anyway.
00:51:59
Speaker
No, if I didn't like them, they would know it. I stopped reading it. And when they change directions, like usually if there was a new writer that came on, new artists, whatever, I would pick up a couple of issues just to see what they were doing. And so, yeah. So I don't know what happened in that gap to make him, you know, go full blown super villain, you know. And when I heard he killed Ted Court, I said, nah, that's not Max. Okay.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah, because I've never really known much about the character beyond. The first time I think I actually read him in a comic book was that Countdown to Infinite Crisis. I think that was the first time I'd read a Maxwell Lord comic book. And I had no idea who the guy was, so I didn't know for a reference for it. And then I saw him in Supergirl as like the Lex. And I'm like, well, they're using him because they want Lex Luthor, but they can't have Lex Luthor. They can't have Lex Luthor, right. But yeah, so that was- Well, if they wanted a Lex Luthor, they could have used Simon Stagg.
00:52:53
Speaker
They couldn't have because he was killed, I think, in the first season of Arrow.
00:53:00
Speaker
And there's, I think so. And they were trying to, it wasn't until towards the end of the first season, the supergirl that they decided to make this kind of established that she's one of the, part of the multiverse. But I think at the beginning, they didn't want to, they were kind of, they seemed like they were kind of trying to hedge their bets on like, is it part of the CW universe? Is it not? They weren't trying to, and then when they did the flash episode, then they like, oh, well she's on another earth.
00:53:24
Speaker
So I think at that point when they were developing, like they didn't want to use Stag for that reason. Because yeah, I'm pretty sure Simon Stag was killed in, I know he appeared in Arrow, or not Arrow, I think it was the Flash maybe. And yeah, I'm pretty sure he was killed in the Flash.
00:53:39
Speaker
Cuz I remember, because Supergirl actually was on another network. Right, it was on CBS. It was on CBS for the first, what, two seasons or the first season? Just the first season, then with the second season. Right, and then they moved her to CW. Because when she was on CBS, that was her own separate thing. And then when they moved to CW, they just like, well, okay, we're gonna find a way to insert her into the rest of the Arrowverse, which they did eventually.
00:54:08
Speaker
Okay, yeah, well, yeah, he was in the first season, William Sadler played him, Simon Stag in the first season of The Flash, and Harrison Wells killed him at the end of the episode. Okay. Because he was trying to keep The Flash, he was still trying to keep The Flash a secret.
00:54:22
Speaker
See, I got to go back and rewatch all of this because it's been so long since I've seen, I forgot most of that stuff anyway. I mean, that first season of The Flash, that was just pure magic, right? That first season was amazing. Those first two seasons were really like... Yeah, because you know what? You saw stuff that you know what? They did a good job of making because theoretically, somebody who can move
00:54:46
Speaker
as fast as the flash, there's no way to beat him. Right. So, you know, they really had to come up with inventive ways to work super speed into the plot and not make flash like unbeatable. Yeah.
00:54:59
Speaker
And then, sorry, go ahead. No, I was about to say, but see the problem was that the Flash falls into the same formula that Arrow did because okay, he's got his backup team and eventually everybody gets superpowers and everybody gets costume and you know, and
00:55:18
Speaker
eventually it starts looking like a clone. It started looking like a clone of Arrow, to be honest, you know. Yeah, yeah. But this is not to say it was not an enjoyable show. I liked The Flash. I just like, I liked Arrow much as I don't like the show because all they do is just strip mine 90% of Batman's shit. But that's another episode. I would love to see if they ever do a Green Arrow, which eventually, you know, they'll get around to. But I would love to see them lean into like the
00:55:49
Speaker
the Oatmeal Adams, like, you know, version of Green Arrow, because that's my favorite Green Arrow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
00:56:00
Speaker
I would love to see them do actually a faithful version of Green Arrow, which I tell people when I tell people that they said, well, what's wrong with that Green Arrow? I said, not a thing other than he's Batman with arrows. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what I loved is when he was on Justice Lee Unlimited, that was Green Arrow. Yeah. He's Bernie Sanders with the bow and arrow. That's what he is. Bingo. Yeah. There you go. But yeah.
00:56:31
Speaker
Matter of fact, it was even if you've ever listened to Chuck Dixon, if you've ever listened on YouTube, that he has a thing he does where, you know, he answers questions that people send him. And one of those questions in the most recent episode that he does, which is number 41, somebody actually does ask him, does it bother him that so much of Batman was taken and given the arrow?
00:57:01
Speaker
So what did he say?
00:57:03
Speaker
Oh, he said he don't care. Oh, okay. He said, once he leaves a character, well, that's it. He's done with it because he does it. Basically, he said that he doesn't think about characters. He's not getting paid to write. Oh, okay. That's a pretty good attitude to have. Yeah. He said, you know what? Somebody else is writing it now. He said, I can't worry about what somebody else is doing. If I'm not writing it, I don't read it. I don't care about it. And he doesn't have to. I mean, he's Chuck Dixon. Yeah.
00:57:32
Speaker
Okay, what else? So, Asteria too. I like that little, they brought Linda Carter back for that little tease at the end there, which makes me wonder, what is, I wonder if, did they just do that because they were worried that people wouldn't realize it was Linda Carter in the armor in the first place? Or was it kind of a wink or were they trying to set something up in the future?
00:58:01
Speaker
I think it's part of that. Linda Carter, my understanding is that they did try to get her for the first movie. Matter of fact, they did want her originally to play Wonder Woman's mother, Gal Gadot's mother. They didn't want her for that. But Linda Carter is still very busy. She's still very active. She's still actively performing and she's doing a whole lot of things. The way I heard the story was that the scheduling just didn't work out, but they always wanted her to do something.
00:58:27
Speaker
And I think that, yeah, that little stinger that they had at the end is definitely setting up. So why would you go through the whole thing with the armor, which, which I don't understand. Why wasn't that the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having a guy that don't look for Linda Carr, you know, why wasn't that the movie? That would have made so much more sense, especially because we find out at the end there that hysteria is in man's world. So it's like, yeah, why? I don't know. That doesn't, you're right. That, that absolutely does not make sense.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah, now- Okay, you know what? I wanna see your version of Wonder Woman 84 now, because that's- No, seriously, because that's such, because they just, they completely gloss over the fact of the armor. Yeah, it's just, it's there in her office. Yeah, I mean, it's just sitting in the corner, you know, and it's, oh yeah, well, that belongs to our greatest warrior, you know. I was looking for it, I was looking for it. And she says it like, you know,
00:59:24
Speaker
Well, I want to get my nails done, you know. It's wrapped up in brown paper, for God's sake. Yeah.
00:59:32
Speaker
You know, shouldn't it be in a case in, you know, even Batman put Robin's costumes in these cases of art. Yeah, yeah. Even though nobody's going to look at it. And she just wraps it up in some dirty brown paper. She wraps up brown paper and sticks it in the corner. Steve said, well, what's that? Oh, that? Oh, nothing. That's the armor of our greatest warrior. No big deal. Nobody is. She goes back to the computer. Wait a minute. What? Needle scratch. What? Wait a minute.
01:00:01
Speaker
Yeah. And it kills me that she's just so very cavalier about it, you know? Supposedly this is a sacred object. Yeah. Yeah. You know, cause she shows him, you know, she puts the last rule around Steve's wrist and she shows her hold it. Well, she really doesn't hold off anybody. She's just like, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah. But this is like a holy relic for her people. And she just acts like, you know, it's a loaf of bread. Yeah. Also the, the scene that, that flashback when they, they show hysteria fighting off the armies of man,
01:00:31
Speaker
it felt really kind of stupid. Like they were just holding this big circle pounding on her. I'm just like, well, she's not really fighting off either. I know, yeah. It should have been like that scene from Thor where the execution is holding off the hordes of hell. Exactly, yes, absolutely, yeah. She should have had a big hunk of flaming battle acts, you know, taking heads and shit like that. Yeah, there were so many missed opportunities in this movie.
01:00:57
Speaker
Like it's just all these misopportunes we see. And that's, I mean, cause yeah, you could have had Linda Carter in that armor in an epic battle scene against a bunch of like Viking armies or something. And that would have been amazing.
01:01:13
Speaker
I mean, you could have went full out on that whole scene. She's slaughtering Roman armies and Aztecs and Egypt, everybody, and they're all coming at her. Yeah, like you said, do full blown CGI with that shit. Yeah, yeah. Just show her why she's such a legend among the Amazons. But like you said, she's got the wings around her and she's just surrounded by a bunch of guys beating on. Yeah, yeah. And also, and you know what? Because you've got Barbara Minerva is, you know, she's involved in archeology and all that.
01:01:42
Speaker
The whole movie should have been the search for hysteria's armor. You have Diana and Barbara both trying to find the armor. Exactly. There you go. That could have been the movie MacGuffin. Exactly, yeah. He was talking in turn. Instead, we go through this whole thing with the pseudo monkey's paw. And I understand what they were trying to do.
01:02:06
Speaker
That's why they had their whole sequence at the beginning with young Diana. And I have a problem with that too, because I'm saying, wait a minute, this kid looks like she's about eight years old. Why is she competing with grown women? Don't they have like a kid's? They didn't have any kids at the Olympics? No, because she was the only child on Themyscira. Yeah, but still, you know what? I'm kind of bothered by the fact that she's obviously so little, and they let them compete with grown women. Yeah, yeah.
01:02:36
Speaker
they're trying to play up exactly how special she is because she was in the lead for a while until she fell off a horse. I get that, I understand that. But still, I don't know. If they had made them more like a teenager, I said, okay, well, okay, cool. She's closer. That was something else too that kind of,
01:02:58
Speaker
It felt like it almost like a contradiction from the first movie. Because in the first movie, there's that whole thing of like, Hippolyta doesn't want her to fight or anything like that, right? And this seems like it's too soon. Like I understand it's set after that, but it seems too soon after that, right? And Hippolyta is like now completely on board with it.
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, she's just like, oh, yeah. She gives her a little pep talk. Well, the world is ready for. But you're right. If she were a teenager, that would have made more sense. It would have made more sense to me. I mean, you got this little kid that looks like she's maybe 10. And she's competing with all these big grown Amazon women. And to me, if I was standing with an Amazon, I would say, why is this child doing here? Yeah, yeah. Because if I lose to a child, that's not going to make me look good in my sewing circle. Yeah, yeah.
01:03:45
Speaker
Be like, you let a child beat you, you know, yeah, serious. No, no, no, no, no, no. Let her go and when she grows up, let her compete with the rest of us like we're supposed to. But again, I didn't write the movie, so hey, these are just my opinions, folks. But also just like this movie, just like the first one, they both have a third act problem. Like the third act is especially in here, it was hard for me to think of like a way for the,
01:04:12
Speaker
for the big showdown with the main villain to be more disappointing than it was in the first Wonder Woman movie, but this one somehow manages to do it. Like the whole thing about just like, and just like the whole, the pseudoscience, like they've got this global broadcasting thing that
01:04:31
Speaker
you know, takes over every TV wave and then she uses her lasso to connect to Max, to connect to everybody else and convinces everybody in the world to give up. That just took me, I understand they're trying to portray Diana as this symbol of hope and optimism and she's able to convince people, but it doesn't feel convincing. Like I can't imagine like the terrorist who wanted a nuclear bomb suddenly being like, oh no, I renounce my wish.
01:05:03
Speaker
It's not convincing, but I went along with it because as you so accurately point out, I saw what they were trying to do. And Wonder Woman should never be about killing the bad guy. That's the way that she resolves the issue. That shouldn't be her. So I get what they were trying to do by convincing Max and convincing the world, listen, this is wrong. You shouldn't do this and everything like that.
01:05:30
Speaker
On that basis, I go with it. But don't get me wrong, I see exactly what you're talking about. Because you're sitting in on one level, you're saying, well, this is just a bunch of magic bullshit that they just broke out their ass. But then on the other hand, you're saying, but it is consistent with the concept of Wonder Woman, that she always will find another way. It is consistent. I just wish they found a better way to do it because it's hard for me to believe. And also, this also brings up the timeline problem because
01:05:59
Speaker
if Wonder Woman spoke to everybody on earth and told them to renounce their, how does still nobody know who she is? How does nobody know who this woman is? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. How does nobody know who she is? I mean, would they? This is why I said it would have been much better if they had established that she had been working in secret all these years and the United States government, matter of fact, all the governments of the world, they know about her because she tells her, listen, you know, listen, if you need me,
01:06:27
Speaker
call me, I'll come and help out. And she works in secret and they know her and everything. That would have solved so many issues with this movie and so many problems with it, as far as I'm concerned, if they went that route. Instead of having this thing like, well, she's been doing nothing all this time except going out to dinner by herself.
01:06:49
Speaker
It also, like, I understand Steve Trevor was the love for life or anything, but it's, you know, you're on like, what, 70 years now after the fact? Like it's, you can move on. You can make other friends.
01:07:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's not exactly a betrayal. Yeah. Boyfriend, if you decide to get on with your life. Especially when he's been dead for 70 years. Which apparently, I don't know. I don't know, to me, that's what they made it out to be, that one woman had just spent all these years mourning Steve. And even he tells her, he said, well, that's just as stupid, Diana. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, well, you know, move on, damn.
01:07:32
Speaker
He said, this is a fantastic world. Why haven't you gone out in this period? And he's 100% right. Well, I mean, I think that's why Chris Pine is really the MVP of this movie. He easily gives the best performance in this movie.
01:07:53
Speaker
And, you know, he's the, and just like his, like I said, his, the whole sequence with him discovering the world. I want to see a whole movie with Chris Pine playing a man who wakes up in the future. Or a man who, and because it would be, you just see that like joy and wonder on his face all the whole time. And you know how good an actor he is?
01:08:14
Speaker
He's a good enough actor that he conveys so much, but never wants to see go out his way to steal a scene from the person who was the star of the movie. Right. But he makes his press. He does his job. He knows, okay, Chris Fonda is a good enough actor that he's a supporting actor and he knows he's a supporting actor. Yeah. He's not the main draw, but he does that superbly well. Yeah.
01:08:38
Speaker
That's what he and by doing it superbly well. As far as I'm concerned, it elevates him to the status of like him and Diana are equals. Yeah, because
01:08:48
Speaker
He doesn't try to steal the movie from Gal Gadot. He knows it. The movie's named Wonder Woman for a reason. It's your movie. But he realizes the pivotal part. He plays in it. And he plays just that part. He doesn't try to make it more than what it is. Because he's the one at the end that convinces her to renounce her wish. He's the one that does it. So she can get her powers back.
01:09:12
Speaker
So he's the one that makes the sacrifice in this movie, really, not her. Right. Because she just goes back to her life of, you know, I mean, you know, having dinner by herself. Until Bruce Wayne comes along. Bingo. So so, you know, he's the one that's making sense because he goes back to being dead.
01:09:33
Speaker
You know, and yeah, so yeah, I agree with you 100%. Chris Pond is definitely, but you know what? Chris Pond, that cat doesn't get enough credit. No, he really doesn't. He really doesn't. Yes, he is. I mean, he was propped, him and, oh, what's his name? I'm blanking on the guys, Simon Peck. Him and Simon Peck were the best things of the Star Trek reboot. Oh, Star Trek reboot, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:10:01
Speaker
You didn't like Zachary Quinto? No, I like him. But I'm saying like Chris Pine and Simon Pegg, they're the best things of that. Nothing down against the other actors. I thought the other actors were fine as well. Like I like John Cho in those movies. I like Carl Urban.
Performance Highlights and Movie Recommendations
01:10:16
Speaker
Okay, so those three. Pegg, Urban, and Pine. Those are the three MVPs in those movies. I mean, Carl Urban.
01:10:24
Speaker
I am convinced and he's never said it yet, but I listen, I would pay for him to have a DNA test because I'm convinced he has to be related to the Forest Kelly. Oh, because he didn't imitate him, but it was like he was channeling the guy spirit. Right.
01:10:40
Speaker
where I could look at him and I could see the Forest Kelly. Yes, yes. Same thing with Chris Pine. Chris Pine was not imitating William Shatner, but there were things that he did that I could, that said to me, okay, I could see these are the same characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I could see that the Shatner, James T. Kirk, and Chris Pine, it's the same guy. You know, he didn't really start doing Shatner until they got to
01:11:05
Speaker
the last movie. Yeah, that was the best one of the series. Yeah. Okay. Now, when he got to that movie, he felt comfortable enough because he had did his own interpretation. He said, okay, well, I'm going to Shatner in this movie. That's what he did. He just did William Shatner through the whole, it cracked me up. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, he, he is a really underrated actor. He, you know, and he does deserve more credit than, than he gets.
01:11:32
Speaker
If you've never seen, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just want to let you and everybody else know, if you've never seen a movie called Hell in High Water, watch, that's your favorite assignment.
01:11:44
Speaker
It's a crime movie. And him, Jeff Bridges is in it playing a Texas Ranger. And it comes highly recommended. If you want to read my review, go to the Ferguson Theater. You know where it's at. And if you don't, shame on you. And you can read my review there. But yeah, but watch that movie. Great movie. Neil Western heist film. Whoa, that sounds interesting. Yeah, yeah. Great movie.
01:12:11
Speaker
All right. And you know, there's a funny real world tied to this. Cause you know, it's funny that they based this version of Max Lord on Donald Trump because it had a real, a weird kind of real world, not ramification or ramification is probably too strong a word, but you know, cause they were talking about after the QAnon people. There was this theory floating around that
01:12:41
Speaker
When Donald Trump leaves the White House, they're gonna take him to a secret base that's operated by the Space Force. And they're gonna use the global satellite system to broadcast Donald Trump's message to all the TV.
Conspiracy Theories and 1984 Criticism
01:12:55
Speaker
They stole the plot from Wonder Woman 84. Really? Their conspiracy theory. Yeah, it was so ridiculous. I'm just reading this, I'm like, that's exactly what happened in Wonder Woman 84.
01:13:06
Speaker
Well, you know that they also stole the plot of the movie, the John Woo movie, Face-Off. Yes, yeah, I saw that too right now. You saw that shit? Well, then you talk about, yeah, that they secretly switched Donald Trump's face with Joe Biden. That's really Donald Trump.
01:13:21
Speaker
These guys, you know, these guys, someone's got to take away their streaming privileges because they just, they're watching way too many movies. They're watching way too many movies. They're watching good, they're watching good movies, mind you. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, way too many good movies. Yeah, yeah. They're getting the complete wrong messages from them. But, so anyway, yeah. Anything else you want to mention about Wonder Woman 84?
01:13:51
Speaker
Oh wait, there was something else I wanted to mention because if you're going to give the movie the subtitle 1984, that is such a loaded title, right? 1984. And then you're not going to do anything with that. Like not even any sort of allusions to that.
01:14:11
Speaker
That's just, it feels like such a wasted opportunity. Well, that's another reason why I said right from the beginning when we started. I said, there is no actually good reason for this movie to be set in 1984. No, in fact, 1984 has such significant connotations that why wouldn't you take advantage of that? Yeah, yeah. It does remind me of Heruki Murakami. He wrote a novel that was titled 1Q84.
01:14:39
Speaker
And again, it was the same kind of disappointment where it's like, you know, it's you've used this title and you don't use it at all. And it's just it's such a missed opportunity. And if you're not going to.
01:14:52
Speaker
But this movie, and in fact, I think this movie should have been set in the modern day. It should have been set after Justice League, because then you wouldn't have to go through this thing like, oh, look, he destroyed the video cameras, that kind of bullshit. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you 100%. This should have been set in present day. Because to me, the only reason to me, you want to make a movie in period like that.
01:15:16
Speaker
is to take advantage of so many other things. And like I said, they don't take advantage of the music of the era, you know, the slang. The only way that you know you're in 1984 is because of costumes. That's the clothes they're wearing. That's it outside of, and even Diana, she doesn't even, she dresses in pretty modern dress. That gear that she's wearing looks like, I said, well, that shit that they're wearing now. Speaking of which, speaking of which though, I gotta mention this, that white dress she wore at that gala event.
01:15:44
Speaker
Oh. Now, that's a dress. That's a dress. Al Gadot knows how to wear a dress. Oh, God, yeah. She knows how to wear a dress. My wife said, why do you keep rewinding that part of the room? I said, you know why. Stop fronting. You know exactly why I'm rewinding that. Yeah. Well, especially me. I'm a leg man. So that scene was just like, oh, that was definitely for me. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:13
Speaker
She does an excellent job of conveying the beauty of Wonder Woman as well as the strength of Wonder Woman. Yeah. That we see those two sides. I mean, really, she nails it just like Linda Carter nailed it. Yeah. I mean, really, I mean,
01:16:29
Speaker
You can see why she's the Wonder Woman for a whole new generation. Just like Linda Carter was Wonder Woman for our generation. You know, you can see why she's inherited that mantle because she wears it as naturally as you or I wear a hat. Yeah, I gotta hand it because this is a casting just like Chris Evans as Captain America, just like Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark and like Ben Affleck as Batman, all these like,
01:16:57
Speaker
I've seen these actors in tons of movies before, but never before, if you told me before they got cast in these superhero roles, if you told me Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark, I would never have thought, oh yeah, obviously.
01:17:11
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, Chris Evans is Captain America. Never would have entered by mind. Never would have entered by mind. El Ado was Wonder Woman. Never would have thought about it. Never even heard of her. Oh, like I remember her from the Fast and Furious movies, but I'm just like, but I never would have, watching those movies, I never would have been like, oh yeah, that's Wonder Woman. Right. Nothing she did in those movies would have made me say, okay, yeah, she'd be the perfect Wonder Woman. But she's amazing as Wonder Woman. She does an awesome job. And it's a theme that you and I keep coming back to.
01:17:37
Speaker
in these episodes as we explore these movies, how vital and crucial casting is to us going along with what we, you know, like you said, you know, just now. So many of these actors, we look at them now and we say, okay, well, we can't see that anybody else doing like, you know, it's gonna be a long time before somebody else can play Iron Man. Yeah, yeah. You know, because Robert Downey Jr., yeah, he's Iron Man, Captain America.
01:18:04
Speaker
You know, why do you think they're going to, why do you think they're trying to get Chris Evans to come back? Because they're saying, well, you know, yeah. I mean, because he's it. He's Captain America. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, another thing too is just like the whole, it's hard to see where you go from Diana at the end of this movie, you know, basically just having saved the world, having convinced the entire world to, to choose truth and reality over, over the monkey's paw wish.
01:18:33
Speaker
and, you know, having this whole uplifting spirit and like this idea, like I have to move on and then go from that to Batman and Superman, which he's still living in the past. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, you know, and I know filmmakers have this thing that they don't want their movie to have to rely on what somebody else has done, but I think Patty Jackson would have served. Patty Jenkins. Patty Jenkins. Yes. Excuse me. Patty.
01:19:00
Speaker
you know for her to go back and look at the character development in those other movies and say well you know what maybe I should tweak something here or there because yeah because it's like Wonder Woman 84 as it is now exists like in its own kind of weird little space it does yeah where it doesn't really fit with
01:19:21
Speaker
the Wonder Woman we saw in the previous movie, and especially not the one we see in Justice League and Superman versus Batman. Yeah, because in Justice League, it does set her up kind of perfectly for this movie, right? This idea like she has, and in fact, I think that's a better way of doing it. Like she has moved on for Steve Trevor, boom, Steve Trevor comes back. Yeah, right. I think that would have made, I think that would have been much more impactful that way.
01:19:46
Speaker
right because then she would have had to deal with her feelings you know for Bruce Wayne and you know now this guy comes back yeah yeah you're absolutely right this movie should have come after that yeah because again as I said there is no good reason at all why this movie should be set in the year 1984 you know it you know it makes it makes it makes absolutely no difference to the story not at all not at all and it also um
01:20:10
Speaker
it makes me appreciate Aquaman and how it picked, it does feel like a more organic movie to follow Justice League. And even though when we did talk about Aquaman, we did talk about how it is kind of like separate from Justice League, but still it does, you can see how it fits together. You cannot see how Wonder Woman 84 fits before Batman v Superman. Yeah, yeah. It's, like I said, it's a weird little movie that kind of exists in its own little, you know, and I can only hope that
01:20:39
Speaker
because they've already announced that they're gonna do another one to one. Even though due to the COVID and this not being in wide release like they want it, it didn't make as much money.
01:20:51
Speaker
as they wanted it to make, but I guess it made it enough that they said, well, you know something, we're going to go ahead and make one in the hopes that by the time we finish making it, COVID will be a memory. Well, you know what, they did something really smart when this movie came out, because this is when I signed up for HBO Max, right? When you went to the signup page, the week of this movie's release, and it may still be up there.
01:21:16
Speaker
I don't know, but they had an offer there. They said like, you know what, you can subscribe and get the free trial and subscribe for one month at a time.
TV Subscription Strategies
01:21:24
Speaker
Or you can subscribe for $10 a month, pay it all at once, buy a six month subscription advance. And so it's like 60 bucks, six month subscription, you know, and that's like saving what, like 30 bucks on the six months, or you can subscribe for the six months. And knowing
01:21:46
Speaker
that they got Wonder Woman 84, knowing that they got all these other movies from 2021 that are coming out straight to HBO Max, knowing that they've got all the DC stuff. I'm just like, oh yeah, I'll commit to six months. Of course, of course you will. And that was a really smart way they did this. They got people to pay basically 60 bucks to watch Wonder Woman 84. Yeah, yeah.
01:22:09
Speaker
Very, very cool. I mean, I'm, I'm lucky because we have direct TV and since we had HBO already, they said, you know, direct TV said, well, you know what? Anybody who's already subscribing to HBO, we're going to give you HBO map. Right. Yeah. So you don't have to pay anything extra for it. So I told my wife, I said, okay, these are the two things you were not allowed to cut off. You can not cut off Turner classic movies and you can not cut off HBO.
01:22:36
Speaker
No, because usually we subscribe to things like in seasons, like my wife is a big fan. She was a big fan of Homeland and Billions. So when the new season started, well, we call up and we would subscribe and watch the season. And it was something, it was a couple of things on HBO we used to watch. Oh, I know. Cause I'm still trying. I've been saying this for five years now. I haven't gotten to it yet. I want to watch this damn show Westworld.
01:23:03
Speaker
Oh, right, right, yeah, yeah. So I wouldn't watch Westworld, she wouldn't watch something else. So we had HBO already. So now that we've got HBO, now we've got HBO Max, I told her, no, you are not allowed to turn off HBO. No, no. She said, you sure? No, you can turn off anything else. I want HBO Max and turn a classic. I can live without everything else. Yeah, you know, it's, I've got like the,
01:23:30
Speaker
Well, I've got Amazon Prime, but I don't use that for streaming. I use that more just for, you know, the shipping things because we buy a lot of stuff off Amazon. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, same thing here, Patricia.
Amazon Shopping Convenience
01:23:41
Speaker
And this is no lie now, and she's going to see this, and she's going to cuss me out, but...
01:23:47
Speaker
Oh, really? Patricia gets packages from Amazon just about almost every day. Especially, of course, now with the COVID. Yeah, yeah. Well, we do too. Like, we're ordering stuff from Amazon all the time. Like, not so. You know, especially because, you know, it's more, especially where we live. Like, it's just so much more convenient. And you know what? I don't care what anybody say.
01:24:10
Speaker
I've always been a person, I would go for convenience. And I would rather go online, order something rather than I got to go into the store and look for it. I got to deal with sales people and this and that, no, no, no. I go on Amazon, order exactly what I want in a day or two, bam, it's at my door. Yeah, same here. Well, cause some of the stores that I need to go to for a lot of stuff, it's like a 20 minute drive. So you're looking like 40 minute drive around trip. And it's just like, it's a pain in the ass to work that into the schedule and all that.
01:24:38
Speaker
especially now that we got the kids. So it's like, you know, if Colton was not here, then I got to take the kid with me too. And, you know, it's a whole big production. It's like- Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. And, you know, it's no production for me, but it's the wintertime and frankly, I hate going out during the winter. So I can order something and have it delivered. Yeah. I'm doing that first. Well, you know, I'm someone who hates leaving my house in general. Like I just,
01:25:05
Speaker
I mean like when everyone went when the lockdowns all that were starting everyone was complaining about having been staying home I'm just like this is great for me I'm loving this. I tell people they say oh well how are you doing during the quarantine I said just fine because usually during the winter time
01:25:22
Speaker
We're home anyway. We don't go out. The only time we like going out is during the spring and summer, to be honest. Now, when it's 70 degrees outside and it's nice, yeah, we're going outside. But like it is now, like today, it's like 34 degrees. No, we're not going out. We actually have had people come, like neighbors, they come and knock on the door.
01:25:44
Speaker
and say, you guys all right? Yeah, we're fine. Why? Well, we haven't seen you a day. We're home. What are we going out for? Look
Wonder Woman's Weaponry Debate
01:25:51
Speaker
at the way. Look at the way. It's 20 degrees outside. Why would I go outside? Yeah. Yeah. It's just that simple. Why would I go outside? Yeah. Yeah. I'm in. OK. So do we any final things to say about Wonder Woman 84? Yeah.
01:26:08
Speaker
I was reading something on one of these Facebook groups and I actually got to stop going to Facebook. People were complaining about, they said, well, where's the sword and shield? How come she's not using her sword and shield?
01:26:22
Speaker
Well, there's no reason for her to use her sword and shield in this movie. She's not fighting doomsday. She's fighting regular human beings. She's only on corks to sword and shield when she really has to. But of course, comic book fans are a bloodthirsty lot and they just want to see her kill people. I did like how they showed the lasso's versatility as both an offensive and defensive weapon. Yes, I thought that was a really good way to do that. It's like her version of Captain America's shield.
01:26:52
Speaker
When that like even though I do have issues with the most I did like that one sequence when she like kind of throws it behind her and lassos the two guys and Then it jumps off the and then swings from it. I did think that was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, so I really liked how they showed the versatility of her
01:27:10
Speaker
you know, using the lasso. I did, again, I have problems with the scene like, okay, she's been around now for, you know, since World War I. And it never occurred to her that maybe she could fly. She had to need, she had to, she had to have Steve to tell her how to fly. I did, I liked the flying sequence, but you're right. It did seem weird that she never found out until that moment.
01:27:34
Speaker
Yeah, okay. I love the flying sequence. I did like that. I just didn't like the way that she got to that point. Yeah. That all this time it never hit you. Well, you know what? Maybe I can fly. I can do all everything else, you know? I can turn a plane a bit. It took you this long to figure out how to make a plane invisible. Well, I mean, they did have a little bit of an explanation there. Cause she said like, you know, I did try it once with a coffee cup, but I lost it. So,
01:28:01
Speaker
Again. So like now, as someone who's more familiar with Wonder Woman than I am, how'd you feel? How'd you like the invisible jet scene? Oh, I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. I mean, that's like her back plane.
01:28:13
Speaker
Yeah. You know, well, her Batmobile. That's like, you know, Wonder Woman, I was actually kind of curious how they were going to work. Because once, as soon as they got in the plane, I said, OK, she's going to turn invisible. I know she's going to turn this shit invisible. I just didn't know how she was going to do it. Yeah, yeah. You know? And yeah, but I'm glad that they got it in there some kind of way. Because I mean, you know, Wonder Woman would have did. And I know people will say, well, that's corny and that's cheesy. Yeah, but you know what?
01:28:44
Speaker
That's like Batman without the bat symbol. Right, yeah. I mean, there's certain tropes that go along with certain characters that if you don't have them, well, it's not the character. Right, yeah. As far as I'm concerned. I mean, we don't have to see her turn the plane invisible in every movie, but just as long as we know that she can do it. Look, you need some fan service, like, you know, in Endgame, when Captain America picks up Thor's hammer, that's a fan service moment that you don't need that moment in the movie, but it works. It helps it a lot a lot.
01:29:12
Speaker
Exactly. And it did make for a very nice, cool, romantic moment when they fly through the fireworks. Yeah, it's kind of like the... Yeah. It reminded me of... in Superman the Movie, the Can You Read My Mind sequence? That's the bingo. But much better done, because like I said when we talked about that movie, I do not like Margot Kidder's voiceover in that scene. Well, nobody does, except for me. Yeah, you're the only one. But yeah, but...
01:29:42
Speaker
But matter of fact, you read my mind, because when I saw it for the second time, it didn't hit me the first time, but the second time I said, yeah, you know what? That reminds me of the whole Superman thing and everything like that. No, I do give Patty Jenkins credit. It does seem that she took a lot more inspiration from the superhero movies that she grew up with, as opposed to the more modern superhero movies, like the Richard Donner, Richard Lester Superman movies. There's a lot of influence from those in there.
01:30:08
Speaker
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I did like that she didn't shy away from that. Yeah, this is a brighter, colorful movie that we're used to seeing from DC, which I noticed is leaning into that, you know, brighter sort of thing. And it moves along. You know, you got to say that for the story. It's never boring. I do think that
01:30:33
Speaker
She front loaded it with so much action at the beginning and gave us those two big action sequences. The Olympics, the Amazon doing the Olympic things and with the robbery attempt in the mall because she knew there was going to be this long sequence.
01:30:49
Speaker
where it's just going to be character development. Yeah. Well, maybe I better give them a whole bunch of action up front. I don't know if I kind of agree with that, but I see why she did it. Because now she's got to reintroduce us to Diana. She's got to introduce us to Barbara. She's got to introduce us to Maxwell Lord. There's a lot of plot she's got to set up before she can move along. So it's a lot of, so yeah.
01:31:18
Speaker
I don't know, I think that's why she did it, but I think maybe she could have like spread out the action a little bit more. But when we do get the action, like I said, when we get to the desert and we get that, and then we get to the White House, yeah, they more than make up for, you know, because now we do know these people. And, you know, by the time we get to this point, we do like Barbara and we're investing in what happens to her. Like you said, like, kind of along the same lines, like I can,
01:31:46
Speaker
I don't agree with the choices that Patty Jenkins made in this movie, but I can understand where she was coming from with the choice. I can see her logic in making those choices. And I think that that's the one thing that you and I are trying to say about this movie. We liked it. We see the things that, yeah, we don't go for it, but we understand why. Right.
01:32:10
Speaker
The choice is the director made in this movie. We understand why she did it and we're willing to go along with it because we understand, even if we don't necessarily say, agree with it and say, eh, well, you know, you could have did it this way, but hey.
01:32:25
Speaker
I didn't make the movie, so I have to go with the movie that I got. Yeah. Not the movie that I would have liked to see. Yeah. I mean, it's not like, you know, shooting Jimmy Olsen in the face just because. Like, that kind of logic I don't understand. Ooh, okay. I wasn't going to go there, but knows I'm with you 100%. Yeah, yeah.
01:32:44
Speaker
And I mean, like you said, this is not a bad movie. It is a fun movie. If you liked the first Wonder Woman, and I don't know anybody who didn't like the first Wonder Woman, then you're probably going to like this one. I liked it even with the little quibbles that you've heard me say. I enjoyed it. I had a good time. I watched it today, and I enjoyed it just as much as I did
01:33:07
Speaker
Well, matter of fact, I enjoyed it a little bit more because, you know, I had already reconciled all the little nitpicks I had in my head. So I said, you know what? I'm just going to sit back and watch the movie. It will be really interesting to see what happened to the third movie because this is kind of a unique trilogy. Most of the times when you've got, you know, the first movie is good and then the typical
01:33:33
Speaker
when you got the same director doing the trilogy, right? Yeah. Usually it's because the first movie is good, the second movie is better, and the third movie kind of like falls down. Yeah, it doesn't stick to landing. But usually when it's the first movie is good and the second movie is a disappointment, then the director doesn't come back for a third movie, right?
01:33:52
Speaker
You know, Jon Favreau, Iron Man was great. Iron Man 2 was disappointing for a lot of people. He didn't come back for Iron Man 3.
Director's Return and Sequel Curiosities
01:34:00
Speaker
Josh Whedon, right? You know, Avengers was great. People were disappointed with Age of Ultron. He didn't come back for Infinity War.
01:34:08
Speaker
This is the first time I can think of, and someone can correct me, but this is the first time I can think of when you've got a director who comes in. The first movie is really great, second movie is considered a disappointment, but then they're coming back for the third movie. So it will be interesting to see if she's able to recapture the magic of the first movie after what happened with this movie.
01:34:29
Speaker
Well, you got to remember that we are in such a unique situation because we will never know how Wonder Woman would have done at the box office if it had been released, the way they were planning to release it, you know, release it big. If they had done that guaranteed, the movie would have made over $100 million that first weekend.
01:34:47
Speaker
And everybody would be saying, oh, there's a tremendous hit as big as that. But since, you know, COVID has done screwed up everything, you know, and it didn't get a wide release like it was supposed to. And you know how this goes. They don't judge a movie based on the actual movie. They based on how much did it make? Well, it didn't make a whole lot. Well, it made a bunch in China. It didn't do what we expected type of thing. Yeah, exactly. That's what they always say. They always say, well,
01:35:17
Speaker
It always reminded me, one of the weirdest things that I heard was that Warner Brothers like, Man of Steel made something like half a billion dollars. And they said, well, we were disappointed because it didn't make what we thought it took. It was a shit movie and it still made half a billion dollars. What are you cooking? You made a shit movie that made you a ton of money. And you talk about, well, we're disappointed. Well, why this one? Well, it didn't make as much as we thought it was gonna make. Really?
01:35:46
Speaker
Oh, so, I mean, but let me ask you, let me give you a quick question here. Okay. That I wanted to ask you when you were talking about the news but my brain is Swiss cheese. Oh, what do you what do you think about this news now, because at first,
01:36:04
Speaker
it was gonna be a movie. And no, it was gonna be broken up and it was gonna be a four-part miniseries. Now it's back to being a four-hour movie. Oh yeah, with Snyder's Justice League. Yeah, what do you think about that as a, you know, I mean, first of all, do you even really care? Because I'm like- Honestly, no, because it's on HBO Max,
Snyder's Justice League Debate
01:36:23
Speaker
right? So it's like, I'm gonna watch it in one sitting anyway.
01:36:28
Speaker
So I don't, it's no difference for me if it's presented as a quote unquote mini series or presented as a four hour movie. Big fucking, I don't give a shit. It's gonna be terrible anyway, so. But to make it such a big deal out of it, it's not like, okay, you're sitting at home. So if you get bored or tired after the first two hours, well, let me stop and I'll watch the other two tomorrow. So yeah.
01:36:55
Speaker
You watch the other two hours and you only want to watch an hour in the morning or watch an hour in the afternoon. Or it, like you said, if you can sit for four hours, which I can't, I'm probably going to watch it on the way myself too. You know, so I don't, I don't understand why the length of the movie continues to be such a big deal with people. No, I don't know. I think it's just, I think just the Snyder fanboys are just love every bit of news that comes out. They're just hooked on the news about it, I think.
01:37:24
Speaker
And it's gonna be, I'm gonna be so relieved when this thing is over and I never have to hear about Zack Snyder's Justice League ever again. Oh man, you and me both. You know, I'm in my, well, who cares stage, really? This and The Flash. I never wanna hear about those two movies ever again. No, help me. But no, I saw that headline. I'm just like,
01:37:48
Speaker
It's on HBO Max. It doesn't really matter. The difference is gonna be what? There's a little two second, you know, click here to skip to the next episode. That's it. That's the only difference. I don't care. I mean, really, it's, or if you got your TV set up, like I have mine, the next episode starts automatically anyway. Right, yeah. So yeah, it's not gonna be a big deal. I don't know why people make that.
01:38:15
Speaker
But then I noticed it's a trend that people, if you say a movie is any longer than 90 minutes, it's like people freak out for some reason. I don't, and I never understood that. Oh my God, it's two hours long. Well, what are you, five years old? You can't sit for two hours? Like I understand, like when a movie starts to get past like the two and a half hour mark, like I don't,
01:38:39
Speaker
I can kind of understand like when they were talking about Avengers Endgame, they were talking about, you know, should we bring back intermissions? I can understand that because, you know, especially when you're going to the theater, that's one thing, right? But when you're at home, it doesn't matter. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Okay. If you're going to the theater, like I know some people tell me, well, okay, well, you know what? I have a problem with my bladder, so I really can't sit through it.
01:39:04
Speaker
I understand 100%. I do not want anybody to have an accident or whatever. Yeah, so when you go to the theater, and I was one of those, like you said, I believe that they should have had an intermission. Yeah. The end game, because that thing was like what? Almost throughout four hours long? No, it was like three and a half hours, I think, yeah. Three and a half hours long. Yeah, they should have had a five minute intermission. Yeah. Or something like that. My feeling is that once a movie hits, because when I went to see, what I went to see, and they had an intermission.
01:39:31
Speaker
When I went to see The Hateful Eight, they had an intermission, you know, they had an intermission. I think it- I think once Hill Bill had an intermission as well. Yeah. Once you start getting into like the over two hour mark, yeah, I think that, yeah, you should have like a little five minute intermission that people run to the bathroom, whatever, like that. But if you're home, it makes no difference. Right, exactly. If you got to go to the bathroom, you pause the movie anyway.
01:39:58
Speaker
and you go to the bathroom or you're hungry, you gon' get a snack and everything like that. I don't know. Like, you know what? You hit on the head. It's just like the Snyder fanboy just want anything that comes out about this damn movie, they just blow it out of proportion. I'm with you. I'll just be glad when it's over, we can watch it, we can talk about it, we can trash it, we can get home and get out of it. Yeah, move on with our lives, yeah. Move on with our lives. All right. Okay, so that does it for Wonder Woman 84. Now you got a list to give me.
01:40:29
Speaker
Yeah, now here's the thing because I'm trying to find black superhero movies. And I did not want to give the obvious choices. You didn't want to do blade. You didn't want to do steel. You didn't want to do that woman. I didn't want to do steel. Hold on a minute. Wait a minute. Matter of fact, I've got my list right here. Okay. Two of the movies that I had on my list was Hancock.
01:40:58
Speaker
I'm starring Will Smith. Oh, right, yeah. And the other one is a little independent movie that I saw a couple of years ago called Slight. And that's as far as- 2016 movie? Yeah, you've heard of it? No, I'm just looking it up right now, just making sure I get everyone. Yeah, it's a independent movie. I reviewed it and it's a movie that I don't think enough people have seen and they should know more about.
01:41:28
Speaker
Now, that's as far as I got because once you get past that, then you get into movies like Blade and Catwoman and Blank Man, because there simply is not a lot of black superhero movies out there. And we covered some of the more better obscure ones last year when we did it. So I'm thinking that maybe I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and we are going to have to do...
01:41:59
Speaker
Stealing Catwoman. Well, there is another one. It's on Netflix, I think. This one with Jamie Foxx, Project Power. Oh, Project, yeah, that came out last year. Yeah, yeah, it came out last summer. Right. Okay, well, we can do that one, Project Power. All right, so which one do you want to do first?
01:42:29
Speaker
as your picks up next, so. Yeah, let's do slight. Slight, okay. Yeah. All right, so we'll look up, we'll go and look and find that and we'll do, so yeah, we'll do slight for our first, well, our second instant, our first episode of our second instance doing black superhero movies for February.
Upcoming Guest Appearance Announcement
01:42:51
Speaker
Yeah, and thank you for allowing me to hijack. Oh, and anytime. For an entire month.
01:43:00
Speaker
No problem, no problem. So we'll talk afterwards, we'll go through and we'll see what's a list of stuff we can find. Cause there's also, Spawn's another one that's on there as well. I know, but still. It's just saying like- No, you want to do Spawn? I mean, we can do Spawn as well. That's another way to put out there. No, because you know why? Because I don't want the Michael Jow white fans coming after me. I really don't. I don't want them coming at me. Because you say anything against that movie boy and they,
01:43:30
Speaker
Man, they're ready to kick your ass. Oh, but we can do spawn. We can do spawn as well. And so yeah, we'll go through and we'll look at the list. So we'll do this, all right? So we got the sum you suggested. So we can, it's like next week I'll pick one from the selection we have and next week you'll pick another one and then we'll just keep going back and forth like that. Just... Okay.
01:43:53
Speaker
All right, so that does it for this week. We're in a new era now, 2021, got a new president, so it's nice not having to doom scroll through Twitter anymore.
01:44:07
Speaker
Oh man, it's such a pleasure to, such a pleasure to not have to turn on the news and say, damn, you know, what's this cat done now? You know, red turning on the news. I think we should remind folks that if you have not as yet watched Wonder Woman, it will be leaving HBO Max at the end of the month. Matter of fact, I think as we're recording it, it's the 20th. And I believe it's leaving on the 24th.
01:44:34
Speaker
I think, yeah, 24th, 25th, something like that. So yeah, by actually by the time you guys listen to this episode, it may already be gone. It may already be gone. So sorry about that. No, but we wanted to get to it before it left. Yeah, yeah, because I wanted to, we want to be able to watch it one last time before it goes off.
01:44:52
Speaker
But I have read that it's leaving for a while, but it will be back in about like six months or so. They're gonna put it back on there. So folks, if you haven't seen it by now, be patient, trust me. There's plenty of other stuff on HBO Max.
01:45:10
Speaker
section and just been you believe me if you haven't been there yet you're gonna go crazy look i mean they got the whole batman the animated series up there now they got batman beyond up there now i mean those two alone could keep you busy for a while but they've also got
01:45:23
Speaker
I mentioned this before, but that Harley Quinn show is hysterical. I have not seen it yet. I meant to watch it last weekend. What did I watch last week? Don't ask me. I watched something last week. I'm watching it this weekend. Come hell, hot water. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah, that's great. I think I'm probably going to watch some of that today, actually.
01:45:40
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so superhero cinephiles.com head over to apple podcasts or wherever you listen to their shows, you know, give us a review, give us a rating. It helps people find the show, uh, shows them more interested. In fact, you know, what's interesting is I get these emails from like the, these like podcast chart monitors and we were like,
01:46:03
Speaker
number we were like in the like the top 50 movie podcasts in like some Eastern European country or something like that no fool yeah yeah it was just like really random like okay i know you know what it's so weird because i remember
01:46:20
Speaker
maybe about like, and this is going back about like 15 years. For some reason, my books were very popular in Belgium. So I was selling books in Belgium and I was getting emails from people from Belgium saying, oh, you write very well. I wonder if it's a white guilt for all the shit they did in the Congo.
01:46:39
Speaker
I have no idea but that lasted for like about a year. I was in some really good royalty checks simply for my bookselling in Belgium believe it or not.
01:46:54
Speaker
I have no idea why. I have no particular affinity with Belgium. I've never been to Belgium. I don't know any Belgians. I have no idea. It was just for that one year, for whatever reason. I was very popular in Belgium. Oh, also something else. I'm not sure when it's going to come out, but this weekend, Derek and I are going to be guests on another show. We're going to be doing...
01:47:18
Speaker
The ladies who host the pop DNA podcast they've they're doing an episode they're doing like a four part episode a four part series on black panther. And they they listened to the episode we did last year. And they like we had to say, and so they've asked us to come on to do an interview so we'll be on one of those four episodes. Not sure when it's going to be released yet, but we'll let you know when it's out.
01:47:40
Speaker
But yeah, that'll be cool because we've guessed it on each other's shows, but we've both individually been on other shows. This is the first time we're being guest interviewed together on someone else's show. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Like you said, we've been interviewed separately on other podcasts, but this is the first time we've ever been interviewed together. I'm looking forward to it. It should be a lot of fun. It should be fun. Yeah. In fact, I got to send an email, make sure we got all those
01:48:07
Speaker
details sorted out for this weekend. But yeah, it's this weekend. Yeah. It's this weekend. Yeah. Yeah. So superherocentafiles.com. You know, join our Facebook group. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Supercent of a Pod. And, you know, yep, that does it for now. Thanks for listening. And we'll be back next week when we talk about slight. Thank you for listening. Good night. God bless. Take care.
01:48:34
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles, where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com.
01:48:56
Speaker
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