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[Re-release] Golden Age Author: Ngaio Marsh
0 Playsin 15 hours
This episode was originally released on November 14, 2023.
In today’s episode, Brook and Sarah discuss Ngaio Marsh, one of four Golden Age Queens of Crime, playwright, and artist.
Discussed
Laura Lippman Tess Monaghan series (1997-2015)
Force of Nature (2018) Jane Harper
A Man Lay Dead (1934) Ngaio Marsh
Ngaio Marsh: Her Life in Crime (2008) Joanne Drayton
“The Secret Life of Ngaio Marsh” (April 3, 2019) Shedunnit Podcast
“Ngaio Marsh Goes Home” (November 17, 2021) Shedunnit Podcast
Murder of Roger Ackroyd (1926) Agatha Christie
Money in the Morgue (2018) Ngaio Marsh and Stella Duffy
The Golden Age of Murder (2016) Martin Edwards
@NgaioMarshAudiobooks on YouTube
Ngaio Marsh telling a story about her childhood
For more information
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Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
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For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/re-release-golden-age-author-ngaio-marsh/
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Transcript
Announcement of Break and Re-releases
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, it's Sarah. Brooke and I are taking a short break from recording new episodes to catch up on our reading lists and plan for the next season of Clued in Mystery. While we're off, we are re-releasing a few of our favorite episodes.
00:00:12
Speaker
We hope you enjoy.
Introduction as Mystery Enthusiasts
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke. And we both love mystery. Hi, Brooke. Hi, Sarah. Do you mind if I share something special before we start today's topic?
00:00:37
Speaker
No, go ahead.
Listener Book Recommendations
00:00:39
Speaker
So we recently released a workplace thriller episode, and during our talk, we mentioned that it was harder than we expected to find books in that subgenre.
00:00:49
Speaker
Well, our listener, Mary e heard our call and emailed us with some suggestions. So she recommends Laura Lipman's Tess Monahan series, and this is where the main character Tess is a reporter covering um the murder beat for a local newspaper.
00:01:05
Speaker
And her other recommendation is Force of Nature by Jane Harper. And this is a mystery about a co-worker team bonding experience gone bad.
00:01:17
Speaker
ah those both sound great. Yeah, they really do.
Newsletter Launch Invitation
00:01:21
Speaker
And this is a great example of some of the extra little fun nuggets we'll be sharing in our soon-to-be-released newsletter, Cluedin Chronicle.
00:01:30
Speaker
So if you'd like to join the wait list for that, please visit our website. Thank you for that, Brooke. So today we are going to be speaking about Golden Age author Niall Marsh.
Niall Marsh's Life and Contributions
00:01:42
Speaker
And I'm so excited to share a little bit about her. I knew virtually nothing about her before I started researching for today's episode.
00:01:54
Speaker
Edith Niall Marsh was born April 23rd, 1895 in Christchurch, New Zealand. She was the only child of Henry and Rose Marsh. There is some confusion surrounding the exact date of her birth as paperwork was not filed for four years and apparently Marsh herself claimed occasionally to have been born in 1899.
00:02:11
Speaker
And I read one place that suggested that she actually chose April 23rd as her birth date because that is William Shakespeare's birth date. Although she is perhaps best known outside New Zealand for her crime fiction, theatre and art were also very important to her, and feature extensively in her writing.
00:02:28
Speaker
While she was enrolled at an all-girls school, she started studying art at what is now the University of Canterbury in Christchurch, studying full-time after graduating high school. Art continued to be a focus of march in March's life, and between 1927 and 1947, she had seven exhibitions as a founding member of a New Zealand art collective that remained influential for 50 years.
00:02:50
Speaker
Marsha's parents met as performers in a theater company, and theater would play a role throughout her life as well. She started writing plays while in high school, and in 1916 she followed in her parents' footsteps and joined a touring theater company.
Marsh's Literary Journey and Posthumous Works
00:03:03
Speaker
She would continue to write, direct, act in, and produce several productions in the UK and in New Zealand until she died.
00:03:12
Speaker
Her father, Henry, had been one of ten children. He and his brothers left England for the colonies, scattering to Canada, South Africa, and in her father's case, New Zealand. Accordingly, Marsh felt a strong connection to Britain and in 1928 left New Zealand for the yeah UK to stay with close friends.
00:03:29
Speaker
She split her time between the two countries for the rest of her life. In 1931, she was living in London, running a home goods shop with a friend, when she started writing her first detective novel.
00:03:40
Speaker
This was, as listeners of earlier episodes will remember, a time when Agatha Christie, Dorothy L. Sayers, and other members of the newly formed Detection Club were enjoying considerable success with their puzzle mysteries.
00:03:52
Speaker
A Man Lay Dead is set in a country house at a weekend party where the guests were invited to solve a fictional murder, a popular pastime that Marsh herself had participated in. Only at this weekend, someone, of course, is really murdered.
00:04:07
Speaker
She submitted her novel to publishers in 1932, but shortly afterward returned to New Zealand to care for her ailing mother.
International Fame and Theater Recognition
00:04:14
Speaker
It was published in 1934, and she ultimately published 32 novels between then and 1982, with the 33rd novel published in 2018.
00:04:24
Speaker
Stella Duffy finished it based on three chapters that Marsh had written and her notes.
00:04:30
Speaker
All of her novels feature detective Roderick Allen, who, like Sayers, ah Lord Peter Whimsey, attended Eaton and is aristocratic, but unlike many detectives of the time, is employed as a policeman rather than detecting as a hobby.
00:04:43
Speaker
And he's far more recognizable as an everyman. Most of Marsha's books take place in the UK, although five, including Money in the Morgue, the one that was published in 2018, are set in New Zealand.
00:04:55
Speaker
Through these, she also explores colonialism and the Maori culture, although it's through the lens of a settler.
00:05:04
Speaker
Marsh also wrote several short stories and wrote a column for New Zealand publication on life in London during her first stint in the UK. When she was in Christchurch, she would often give talks on London life, and a few of them were broadcast on radio, which led to her reading one of her novels to radio listeners.
00:05:21
Speaker
A Surefit of Lampreys, she read it 20-minute segments, twenty twenty minute segments Her voice was considered to be quite deep, um but I found a YouTube clip and it sounded really rich and warm to me, ah so it would have been, I'm sure, lovely to hear her reading her own work.
00:05:39
Speaker
Marsh was named to the Order of the British Empire in 1948 and then appointed a dame in 1966.
Theater Connections and Family Ties
00:05:46
Speaker
She celebrated in New Zealand for her contributions to art and theatre, but less so for her crime writing, despite her international fame.
00:05:52
Speaker
On one return to London, her publisher arranged for 100,000 copies of 10 of her novels to be printed at the same time. So um put a million copies of her books into the market.
00:06:05
Speaker
Little is known about her private life, and she destroyed most of her personal papers before she died. According to her biographer, Joanne Drayton, Marsh regretted not being a mother.
00:06:15
Speaker
However, she developed close relationships with her cousin's children. So she never married, um although she had a fiancé who was killed in the First World War.
00:06:27
Speaker
Niall Marsh died in 1982 at the age of 86 in Christchurch, but continues to be celebrated for her contributions to art, theater, and crime writing. Thank you, Sarah. That was wonderful. And I'm like you. I knew zero about Niall Marsh before our ah research this week and found her to be such a fascinating, like, um well-rounded woman Totally. Yeah. Like she was, she was always doing multiple things, right? She, she wrote, what did I say? 33 books, but was while she was writing her books, she was directing plays or writing plays, painting. Yeah. Just really fascinating.
00:07:17
Speaker
Very active. Because I was such a ah novice about her, i started by listening to a couple of episodes of She Done It, which is ah Carolyn Crampton's fantastic podcast about mystery.
00:07:32
Speaker
And she has two episodes about Niall Marsh, if anyone's interested, that are a great overview, I would say. um And she refers to the four queens of crime, which Agatha Christie, Dorothy L. Sayers, Niall Marsh, and Marjorie Allingham.
00:07:49
Speaker
um which yeah So now we're covering up to three, Sarah. We've got one more to go. But I was thinking that in that group, At least ah ah we still have to learn about Marjorie Ellingham. But the other two ladies, I would say that writing and authoring was their prime artistry.
00:08:10
Speaker
But with Niall Marsh, like we just said, she was doing so many different creative endeavors. She was just ah creative in so many different ways, which I think added ah certain layer and um richness to her mysteries. so Yeah, I mean, I think Agatha Christie, she definitely wrote some plays.
00:08:31
Speaker
But I think and the impression that I get is that theater was like just a part of Niall Marsh's life, right? Her parents met in the theater. um In one of the biographies that I was reading, it said that, you know, she made sure that there was a place for her father in a lot of the plays that she was producing. So even as he was aging, because it was such an important thing to him. She made sure that there was um an opportunity for him, even if it was just to like be on stage for one scene, which you know I think like that just speaks to how important it was to her and and to her father.
00:09:14
Speaker
Absolutely. And we've learned that she had a really close, wonderful relationship with her father. I think that she was, ah you know, to use cliche, kind of a daddy's girl. So that is
Comparison to Agatha Christie
00:09:25
Speaker
very sweet that she continued to do that.
00:09:28
Speaker
And, you know, that was what she was known for in New Zealand was her theater work, her um directing plays, especially, you know, Shakespearean plays, ah much more so than her crime fiction Yeah, I got the impression that in New Zealand, her writing is almost considered an afterthought, where she really is ah a celebrity for her theatre work. And, you know, i think the National Theatre is named after her.
00:09:56
Speaker
And she established, like, a theatre school, I think. I think I read somewhere that Sam Neill, so he was the, you know, he um one of the scientists in Jurassic Park. um he He studied with her.
00:10:12
Speaker
which is, you know, really neat. Yeah, that's a good point because Niall Marsh lived until 1982. So you know you and I were around, Sarah. It's very fun to know that this person who you know was born in the late 1800s had such a nice long life that ah people who are still around to contribute to all sorts of creative endeavors knew her and met her.
00:10:38
Speaker
um i listen In one of the Carolyn Crampton episodes, so one of her interviewees had spent time with Niall Marsh. Her family were friends ah of that family. And so she could give some firsthand references. And I thought that that was just so great.
00:10:56
Speaker
and That's incredible. Yeah. I think it's really interesting that she almost had these kind of dual lives, right? Internationally, she was ah queen of crime.
00:11:09
Speaker
And she was a member of the Detection Club, though not until the nineteen seventy s She attended a meeting in, i think, the late 1930s. I think it was 1937.
00:11:20
Speaker
um She attended one of the ceremonies and um i think it had a lasting impact on her, but she didn't actually get to become a member herself until 1974. Yeah.
00:11:31
Speaker
And I liked the idea that we know that that was the era when Agatha Christie was the president. So um she was probably conducting the ceremony that inducted Niall Marsh into the detection club. So I just love that visual.
00:11:47
Speaker
So that meeting that she attended in 1937, I don't think she knew Agatha Christie at the time. I'd like to think that the two of them did develop a ah relationship um after that, as Marsh's crime writing became more popular.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yes, I hope so too. that would be That would be such a neat thing to know what kind of relationship those two fantastic ah women had.
Adaptations and Screen Calls
00:12:09
Speaker
found some fun similarities between the two of them in my research.
00:12:14
Speaker
It was mentioned that Niall Marsh had a similar type of freedom in her childhood where she could run around the grounds of their large estate.
00:12:25
Speaker
And that was similar. Agatha Christie also had that and in ah got to have their imaginary worlds. um She also taught herself to read at age four or five, which we know Agatha did as well.
00:12:40
Speaker
And they both had like this impetus to try out crime writing by reading a novel and then saying, oh, I think I could do that. So they they gave it a shot.
00:12:51
Speaker
And it's suspected that Niall Marsh actually had read A Christy and anne wanted to try her hand at it. Well, i would I would believe that because ah it was the early 1930s and you know several of Christie's books had been released by then, so including The um Murder of Roger Ackroyd.
00:13:12
Speaker
I read a few of her books or listened to a few of her books to prepare for this and actually only just learned, and I'm really kicking myself for not having looked this up earlier, but ah there are audio versions of several of her stories um available on YouTube, including versions that are read by Benedict Cumberbatch.
00:13:37
Speaker
um And so he pronounces her detective as Alain, but Wikipedia lists his name as being pronounced as Alan. um So I'm not sure who to believe there. Is it, is it Alan or Alain?
00:13:51
Speaker
um I would probably read it as Alain just because of the way that it's spelled. um But yeah, I i will include a um links to a couple of those, as well as a link to um the audio clip that I found of her ah recounting a story from her childhood.
00:14:12
Speaker
um And yeah, she just had this really rich, warm voice. Oh, that sounds great. I definitely want to hear her voice because that's something that comes up again and again is that she had, like you said, at this deep, but nearly, they describe as like nearly a masculine voice. So I would love to hear her actual her actual tone. That would be great. And i that's what i where I found something to listen to of her work. I listened to a Man Lay Dead, which is the first of the Roderick Allen books um via YouTube.
00:14:44
Speaker
So that was a great find. And I found her story to be like like, I could tell the influence of the theater. I felt like the dialogue, you know, the dialogue was really believable and she had great interplay between characters. And I think that that's something that she's known for is better characterization and better representation.
00:15:06
Speaker
use of setting than maybe some of the other golden age writers. Um, I have heard it said that her plots aren't as strong as Christie, but come on, who's are.
00:15:19
Speaker
And, um, but I, I really liked the, um, the description and the narrative I would agree. I mean, I i saw the same kind of um suggestion that her work is perhaps a little bit more literary than some of her contemporaries.
00:15:36
Speaker
I actually listened to um Money in the Morgue, which is the one that was published after her death. ah So, you know, published in 2018.
00:15:47
Speaker
um Stella Duffy wrote it based on – um Marsh had written the first three chapters and I guess left some notes in the title of the book and then Stella Duffy finished it.
00:16:00
Speaker
And ah i I thought it was great. I really, really liked it. um And so I would say that I like Niall Marsh's work more than I like Sayers. Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker
I think I would have to listen to more read or listen to more to make be able to make that um decision because I do really like Dorothy L. Sayers. and But I see what where you are coming from because it it is more, i think literary is a great description.
00:16:37
Speaker
um I think that her observations about life and people are really astute and i i enjoyed that. she can sum up a character in a very succinct way.
00:16:50
Speaker
um and I think that that probably comes from her knowledge about, you know, drama and theater. um She could just, in a turn of phrase, and you would just know exactly, okay, I i have a picture of who that person is and who who they're going to be in this
Marsh's Impact and Future Plans
00:17:05
Speaker
story. So I really liked that.
00:17:08
Speaker
Although I didn't get a chance to read Money in the Morgue, I did find ah great interview. It's a podcast interview with Stella Duffy, so we can link that as well.
00:17:19
Speaker
um And it was about her experience in being chosen to to co-author. That's the way it's billed on the book, um the book with Naya Marsh.
00:17:30
Speaker
And it's a great... interview, kind of talking about that process of what that was like, taking these notes and then trying to um fill in the blanks and and create the rest of the story.
00:17:42
Speaker
But I also enjoyed it because um Stella Duffy is a Kiwi, so she really could tell the listeners a lot about what life was like, perhaps in New Zealand when Niall was writing. And yeah some of the um prejudice, I guess, that she experienced against being a genre fiction author, because we, you mentioned earlier that she was really known well for her theater work, but commercial fiction just kind of wasn't the thing for New Zealanders. And so ah that was something that she wasn't, uh,
00:18:21
Speaker
honored for during her life. And Stella Duffy but had a way of really describing that because of course she is um a New Zealander herself. So that was a great interview. And I think Stella Duffy's background is in theater as well. And so she's got that connection with, um with Niall Marsh and can really ah draw on that. yeah i so i picked that up in, in the book as well.
00:18:48
Speaker
Wonderful. There are also on YouTube, although I didn't um watch any of them, but I did find them when when I was searching. um There are some of the TV adaptations of her work. And there there hasn't been a lot of screen adaptations of her work, but there was a series in the 1960s and then another one in the early 1990s.
00:19:11
Speaker
And there were some radio adaptations in the nineteen ninety s and in ah twenty ten i believe You know, when we've said this about some um of the other authors that we've talked about, I think there is opportunity there for some more um some more screen adaptation of, I really liked Her Detective. Mm-hmm.
00:19:31
Speaker
Yes, I completely agree. And I would love to see the, um because they're adaptations, they don't have to be verbatim of stories, as we've, you know, definitely discovered.
00:19:43
Speaker
Like, let's just have this whole New Zealand thing, because yeah i love, you know, I love that to learn more about that culture and that setting would be so fascinating. fun and something that we don't see a lot, um I think, in films and television um or enough.
00:19:58
Speaker
Maybe we don't see it enough. So I agree. let's Let's get some adaptations of some Niall Marsh going. Yeah, no, i think I think it would be great. Thank you, Brooke. This was really fun to talk about Niall Marsh, one of the four queens of crime. Now we've done profiles on three of them. We still have Marjorie Ellingham to do, ah which I think will be great as well.
00:20:22
Speaker
Yes, thanks, Sarah. This was wonderful as usual. And thank you all for listening today to Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery.
00:20:33
Speaker
Clued in Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers. If you liked what you heard, please consider telling a friend, leaving a review, or subscribing with your favorite podcast listening app.
00:20:46
Speaker
Visit our website at cluedinmystery.com to sign up for our newsletter, The Clued in Chronicle, or to join our paid membership, The Clued in Cartel. We're on social media at Clued in Mystery.