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The Life And Death Of Pocketbeagles
314 Plays5 days ago
"All these things, from branding to product, come back to your identity."
After a few weeks spent exploring the annals of The Crafty Pint Podcast, we return to our regular programming this week, as Clint Weaver joins us the studio.
Clint has spent close to a decade running Pocketbeagles, a graphic design business that focuses on making craft beer (and other beverages) look better. If you've looked at or enjoyed beers from the likes of CoConspirators, Brewmanity, Bright Brewery or One Drop, you'll be familiar with his work.
Ever up for a laugh, Clint hosted a "Fun-eral" for Pocketbeagles at CoConspirators last weekend to mark the redesign and evolution of his business. Ahead of the gathering, Will Ziebell caught up with the designer to chat about the decision, as well as Clint's love of craft beer and his early work on Froth Magazine.
Beyond his own history with the booze world, we examine how graphic design has changed over the last decade in beer, recent trends, and Clint's advice for brewers when it comes to branding and thinking about who they are.
Ahead of the chat, Will and James talk through the past week or so in the beer world, including the sad news that Sobremesa are calling it a day and Black Hops' second voluntary administration in two years. We also cover Blackflag's expansion into Bundaberg, the Australian International Spirits Awards, TWØBAYS' trophy success in New Zealand, and Dunsborough's new – kinda – brewery.
Start of segments:
- 0:00 – The Week On Crafty
- 18:30 – A Deal From Price Screen & Digital
- 19:31 – Clint Weaver Part 1
- 44:47 – Free Samples From Packpal
- 45:53 – Clint Weaver Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Context
00:00:04
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and Will. I know we're here to so talk about the the news from the last seven days. However, I feel all like we need to go back a little bit further in time. As we we mentioned the in the story the articles in the show notes for last week's news, we did record it earlier than planned um or earlier than usual, I should say, because our podcast producer was on his way to fly to the States to see his family and pretty much no sooner had we ah hit stop on the record of last week's ah discussion of the week in Crafty than a couple of bits of breaking news
Sobremesa's Closure and Market Challenges
00:00:37
Speaker
came our way. um
00:00:39
Speaker
Neither of them particularly upbeat unfortunately. um i guess the first one to land Europe was ah the story that Sobra Mesa, a small Melbourne operation that been focused on barrel aged beers, saisons and real ales have had to call it a day.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's, it's um really sad news. I to think if you go through the comments on Instagram or Facebook, a lot of outpouring of, uh, sort of sadness that they wouldn't be continuing on. It's obviously, it's not a great time for these kinds of beers. i think quite clearly, uh, Sobra Mesa, they only announced six months ago that they had found a tap room, which I'd been looking for for a really long time. They found a space. There were some challenges with it, uh, that made it not quite fit for purpose in the way they wanted to uh use it and that coupled with the fact that the um the declining sales as well and the challenges in the market meant they they've decided to just wind up the business uh basically so um Casey Hanna uh founded it uh their partners who started it just before COVID really in case she's been a long-term brewer um brewed a number of great Melbourne operations and Andy joined them along the way as well. they They met while Andy was selling beer at Bonehead and Casey was the head brewer there and they obviously got to know each other quite well and um Andy joined the team to help with sales.
00:01:57
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it's just, ah it's it's pretty sad to think. I think not just because they're really, they are lovely people and they make really extraordinary beers, but it's just this you know, reminder of how limited, I think the sort of interest and excitement for some of these beers are, which I think probably attracted a lot of people to craft beer or or got people really excited about it in in the early days. Yeah, I guess if people are sort of, you know, I think they one of the comments they made was about operating the niche within a niche. And if you look at some of the comments we've seen on socials, you know even our social posts covering it, you know, one of the all time greats and, you know, people did really love them. I went into a a local um bottle shop here where yeah I mainly go in to get some tap wine every now and then they have a couple of fridges of really good beer. And as soon as I walked in the guy, he's like, oh, really sad news about Sopramesa, you know, he goes, it
00:02:47
Speaker
even though they're not normally a beer shop is like i've got customers that come in here and love them um and i guess it's one of those things like i said in the the intro to our newsletter on friday it's like if if you have the disposable income you know six years in into all the challenges that the world is facing and you do love brands you know yet you know it is worth thinking about supporting them before they're gone um you know um I think that's the case for a lot of businesses across the, you know, the wider bi industry, whether it's hospitality, retail, publishers, anything, you know, and I think um certainly,
00:03:21
Speaker
the impact on on that world. I had had one brewer who still produces barrel aged beers going, Jesus, there's not really many left. And was like, yeah, maybe you and felons down the line, you know, there's, it is, it is becoming a more chatt challenging space in which to operate. I guess if people are still going out and buying beer, maybe they're just being a bit safer or, you know, looking, looking for something yeah a little bit cheaper. So um hopefully those that are still around will, um you know, stick around.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. It's a hard time to be, I think anything that's a special occasion thing as well, because it's kind of fewer and freeer fewer reasons for people to maybe spend their money on those special occasion things. They kind of want something that's a bit more accessible, ah ah something they can have a full pack of, or more likely to buy a case of even and take home. Like it's it's just that really tough to be in that, that they'd moved into cans as well, but still the kind of.
00:04:12
Speaker
you know, subtle and intricate and and and slightly more premium experience probably just doesn't quite work at the moment.
Black Hops Brewing's Financial Struggles
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess sort hot on the heels of, you know, hearing about the Sobremesa news and there was news broke that Black Hops Brewing on the Gold Coast ah back into voluntary administration. it's ah It's less than two and a half years since they first went through the administration process. New owners, um which included some sort of, you know, people who previous involvement with the business. took over, you know, um obviously had some fresh ideas. There was the launch of this ah East Coast kind of almost sub-brand and but more approachable beers was attempted as well. and From what we understand, and, you know, we've been sort of relying on statements provided to us as opposed to speaking to anyone in the business directly on the record, is that they were looking to... sell the business that fell through and that's where they've left them now. And having said that, you know, the administrators are still looking for a sale. They've set a very tight deadline for expressions of interest of August the 4th. So, um yeah i mean, I think, you know, it's something that we've discussed in the in the past with people who've been through this process. You know, i think when when these were happening, a lot people like, oh, it's kind of a way of just wiping your debts and starting afresh. And people are certainly Mazin at Hawkes said to us, you know, it's not,
00:05:27
Speaker
just like a clean slate there, you know, it is still challenging. You face different conditions, you know, after a VA or a process like this. And clearly for Black Hops, they've still been, um, facing some, you know, insurmountable challenges.
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, there's staff that have been there right through, well, now they're working there under the second VA. So like heart really goes out to them as well. really difficult to have to deal with that, particularly seeing that, you know, administrators basically immediately put it on the market up for auction.
00:05:56
Speaker
You can only read from that that basically a quick sale really does need to happen or you you can imagine it it's not, you know, the brewery would probably be sold for parts if if this doesn't work out and yeah a lot of people will lose their jobs as well. And um that will be the end of the brand.
00:06:10
Speaker
um So, yeah, we'll see what happens there. Yeah, we are. that We've been told no one from Black Ops just can speak on it. Fair enough, because the administrators are in charge. And um so we're sort of relying on them to let us know as things change.
Expansion of Black Flag Brewing in Queensland
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess sticking in Queensland, some more positive news. and You had a chat to Steve Barber, the fair founder of Black Flag Brewing, who opening a third venue um quite a fair distance from their first two venues.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, well, in Queensland, it's not the greatest distance in Queensland terms. I mean, like, what, three hours north to Bundaberg? But, yeah, they've taken over the place that was, well, effectively been vacated by Ballistic as the um group, the owner of Ballistic. that they looked They've created Queensland Beer Co. And um so that's sort of the end there. And Black Flag have decided to... Yeah, they walked into it, were impressed with the space. I spoke to Steve Barber, who's a co-founder of Black Flag, and he he said they they really saw some good bones there. They have done a lot of work. They've moved the bar around, put a food truck in um painted it, of course, to give it the... punk look that runs across the rest of the brick um brand.
00:07:22
Speaker
It was good to talk to Steve about music as well. i think anyone who follows their story would say that they're doing a lot in the events and music space. Coolum, which is their production brewery and major site, that that has capacity for a thousand people. um The original home in Mooloolaba, that's more like 150, 200. They kind of have smaller acts there, smaller artists.
00:07:41
Speaker
And Bundaberg gives them a sort of four five hundred capacity venue space in central Queensland as well, which is really that's part of what's exciting the the brand. The fact that they can continue to support live music in a different way in a different part of Queensland, that they'll keep the brewery in as well. You always wonder when someone takes over. a brewery, um, if they'll use it or not. And Steve, uh, as we spoke today, actually said the first beer had just been brewed. So yeah, he, he felt it was important, uh, since the stainless was there and, um, given the history and who they are, that they want to have the sort of authenticity of, of making beer on site and having people who can see it and understand the process and that kind of stuff.
00:08:21
Speaker
And it's a bit of a third time lucky, hopefully for the site because Bargara Brewing was there before and that was sold to Ballistic. um So I guess the locals will be hoping this one this one sticks. Well, it's been 12 years as a brewery, which is actually, yeah, it's it's three changes of ownership, but it's it's got quite a history as as being an independent brewery. in town. So ah you'd have to see how Bundaberg locals see it. They're probably just like, oh this is great. New brewery. Check it out in the same way that when the local pub changes owners. Sometimes some people love it more. Some people dislike it. It's just a change.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah. And it reminds me actually having a chat to Craig who works with us, but it was also works um part of the week with Black Flag chatting a while ago that Black Flag had been traveling to a number of regional beer festivals or I'd say, know, I guess,
00:09:11
Speaker
beer and other, um I guess, offering festivals around parts of regional Queensland over the last couple of years and finding that you know when you were one of a handful of you know local producers out of festival, as opposed to being at a festival with, say, 30 or 40 other brewers, that they were finding it was a you know real great thing for the brand, selling ah selling all a beer, selling all of their um sort of non-beer products as well. And so you wonder whether sort of having had that sort of really positive experience for the business in you know traveling to regional Queensland, whether they had been sort of keeping eyes out and thinking there's there's opportunities out there, you know, beyond, you know, the Sunshine Coast is pretty pretty packed with breweries. You know, Brisbane's fairly fairly dense as well. So, um yeah, just looking to explore other opportunities. So, yeah, best luck with that. um You know, we ran that two-part feature on beer in central Queensland last year. There is ah definitely a growing scene and, you know, central Queensland is a large area as well. So presumably there is that there is space for for new players.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's not all Bundy and ginger beer. And James, you ran something this week. Over the weekend, there was the NZ Beer Awards too, and we've seen sort of local international brewery champions now, Two Bays Brewing. they They keep impressing at international awards, don't they?
00:10:29
Speaker
Yeah, so the New Zealand Beer Awards, they now celebrate Champion Australian Brewery um and Two Bays, who we've covered at length over the last few years with their success at the World Beer Cup in America. and They were one of the entries. I think you know Mountain Goat also entered, Bent Spoke as well. But yeah, Two Bays came out on top of all the Australian entries. and They picked up some more golds for their gluten-free beers and across a number of styles, which just shows they just keep on it's It seems whatever they turn their hand to, they they can do it. you know They've obviously learned enough about the ingredients they're playing with and their processes. um So that was amazing news. And it's it's pretty timely for them as well. Their free house, which we wrote about in April, their sort 100% gluten-free
00:11:11
Speaker
free venue is opening in Collingwood in the coming weeks as well.
Achievements at the New Zealand Beer Awards
00:11:15
Speaker
We'll be all over that when they have ah an official opening date. But sometime in August, there will be a new place for ah people who yeah either don't don't like to have gluten or can't have any gluten to go and have anything they want in the building, beer, um other drinks, food or whatever. um So keep an eye out for that as well.
00:11:34
Speaker
I'm sure if Richard Jeffers was with us, he'll say it's a place for everyone. And I've been following along the journey and the food menu does look outrageously good. So I'm sure even if you're used to eating gluten all the time, you'll you'll find much to love. And i I can't believe it's opening in August as well, because I'm so used to brewery and venue delays that this seems to be one of the few. I know the doors aren't open yet, but one of the very few to open sort of about when they said it would open the doors.
00:12:02
Speaker
the way If ever there was a commentator's curse set up, that was the one. um Yes, and I guess that was you know putting a bit of coverage out there about the end NZ Brewers award a Beer Awards, I should say. It's a little bit sort of to decide what we normally do. But I also popped along to the Australian International Spirits Awards last night. um but run by melbourne royal obviously we were involved in the the beer version earlier this year uh went along that very different to the the beer awards i know that for melbourne royal their beer awards are the biggest of all the you know food and drink awards they do throughout the year um so it seems to be a more well-behaved crowd at the spirits awards um but it was like a sort of bit of a moving feast it started in one room some of the awards were sort of announced they had moved another room then a third room um And yes, I got to see sort of what's happening in that sort of parallel world to ours. A lot of positive noises about the quality of Australian spirits, but it's pretty cool as well to see um the sort of number of beer tie in. So Craig Westwood, Westy, he used to be one of the brewers at Mountain Goat. He helped set up their still and distilling program years ago. he's He's been at Cedar Fox Distilling in Coburg for years. He he took out a trophy for his absinthe vert.
00:13:15
Speaker
last night. um And there was there was others as well. Noodle Doof had a gold. There was a finest in one category. um Danny Pereira, who many people know as one of the founders of Two Rupees Brewing in Clayton a couple of years ago, he opened Dutch Rules Distilling.
00:13:28
Speaker
I think he got something like five golds. He was shortlisted for um Small Distillery of the Year. um It's just just yeah it kind of cool to see how much of a common ground there is and how some of the brewers who are either trying their hand at spirits as a sort of spin-off from their main thing or have actually moved into that space, um, are going so well. So that was a little bit of fun.
00:13:49
Speaker
Nice. And we also have a story out of WA from our very own Jono Outred. That's right. Yes. So um um I think we did we did something ah two or three years ago, a place called South Camp opened um in the the Margaret River region while at Dunsborough, sort of on that sort of the northwest um tip of of the the Margaret River region. It was a sort of partnership between a local family and a hospitality group, real sort of multifaceted operation. But at its heart was ah was a brew pub with ah and ah and a brewery there. um
00:14:22
Speaker
That part of it, I think sort ownership has sort of changed in various ways over the three years since. But I guess of interest for the beer audience is that the actual brewery and the brew pub has have been taken over by Daz Harry and his his wife, Gem. They um run the Pourhouse and craft beer venue in Dunsborough. We did a piece on dar Daz a couple of years back.
00:14:42
Speaker
um They've been involved in hospitality, you know sort live music and that kind of thing around WA for a long, long time. So that they've taken ownership of South Camp. It's being rebranded to Salt Line. It has been rebranded to Salt Line.
00:14:56
Speaker
Jono has been down to have a chat with Daz about his plans. um And it's sort of gradually be more and more sort of Salt Line beers coming online there. um So, yeah, just, you know, that that whole region's beer scene is one of the best, you know, regional be beer yeah be beer scenes in the country. and I think it's just...
00:15:14
Speaker
adds ah a bit of a fresh, fresh not not an exactly a new member, but kind of a new member to to what's going on in down down in the Southwest. Definitely. And this week's guest is actually ah w a WA boy himself, although he's been living in Melbourne for a very long time. Clint Weaver, who I caught up with a couple weeks ago. He's the the man behind Pocket Beagles, a graphic design company that's worked with a number of great ah Melbourne and just a more widely Australian craft breweries. He works potentially most associated with co-conspirators they were one of his early clients and brewmanity as well so he helped to give them very distinctive looks but he's also worked with batch brewery one drop uh two rupees and and dutch rules distilling as well so he was actually the spirits awards last night uh to see how he got on with his with his spirits uh designs
00:16:06
Speaker
Ah, excellent. Nice. Great. ah Yeah. Well, the reason for catching up with Clint was because he recently, uh, sort of co quote unquote killed pocket beagles. I was actually attended his, uh, what he was calling a funeral on the weekend. that That joke works a bit better if you read it, but picture where the hyphen might be in funeral and you're sort of there. I, I had a friend who doesn't work in the beer industry attend, and there was this portrait of Clinton and, uh,
00:16:33
Speaker
candles in front of it sort of set up like a memorial. And then my friend was very shocked that we're all having such a good time at someone quite a young looking person's funeral. ah But it's it's great conversation with Clint, we cover both why he's decided to depart with the brand is very much not leaving the beer industry or leaving the graphic design space. He just thought it was time to change things up a little bit. And he as he says, he likes to be pretty dramatic. But we also cover off how he started ah the the brand itself um how he got you know those early clients and he's he's got some really great advice I think for people who are looking to connect with breweries and those those kind of things and then we also uh unpack a lot of his you know things he loves and things he doesn't love so much in in the graphic design space we don't go into AI that much I was quite glad I wasn't sure if you'd want to talk about it that much because he he was uh one of the interviewees on the story we wrote a little while ago that got a lot of attention and a lot of commentary and i was kind of glad because i feel a bit dumb by talking about talking about ai as well so it's very light on that which is great it's it's more about wider trends and sort of what think breweries can do to stand out um how they need to think about themselves it's yeah i think there's some real really great nuggets of information in there good stuff now well uh that's coming up after the break um and if you do enjoy the show then uh what should people do will
00:17:55
Speaker
They can like, subscribe, leave a comment. ah they They can send us an email as well, which is podcast at craftypint.com.
Engagement and Listener Interaction
00:18:03
Speaker
We very rarely get emails. so say we get We get invoices from our pod podcast platform that we use. you know We get them every month.
00:18:13
Speaker
No, we have had a few industry people reach out as well, which has been great. ah But yeah, if you know you want to just leave us a direct message, that would be awesome. Or I suggest some people to come on the podcast as well.
00:18:23
Speaker
ah So yeah, in enjoy the conversation with Clint and we'll be right back after this. Cheers. Cheers.
00:18:32
Speaker
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00:18:48
Speaker
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00:19:02
Speaker
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00:19:27
Speaker
That's pricescreen.com.au slash quote.
Clint Weaver's Career Transition and Reflections
00:19:32
Speaker
Clint, welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. Hello, mate. It's so nice to have you here after all our years of friendship. And in all those years I've known you, you've been Clint from Pocket Beagles. Tell us about your decision to to kill Pocket Beagles, euthanize, put down. Well, all the things. i might I might have got murdered, yet to be revealed. um Yeah, we've known each other for a very long time. I think probably close to the 10 years that I've sort of been doing the design thing.
00:20:02
Speaker
Um, and yeah, 10 years of pocket beagles, um, just decided it was time to sort of mix things up a little bit. Um, and I am very keen on being quite dramatic. And so i thought of the idea yeah thought of this idea a little while ago, um about, you know, having a death of the brand, um, just to make it official. Um, and yeah, it's all coming to head very shortly.
00:20:25
Speaker
Right. And what is it in in its brand as a new brand take its place or is this it Clint's walking off into the desert as well? Yeah, no, I've got a new ah brand lined up. So essentially this.
00:20:38
Speaker
thing for me, um i have seen it as a, as a rebrand. um And it's been in the works for a number of years, to be honest, I sort of like a couple of years ago, ah started to get sick of the name a little bit. um It was always just chosen on a whim sort of, and then I've just rolled with it. And you know, the whole whole career is sort of like snowballed over the course of the past 10 years. um And so, yeah, this, this nugget of a thought came into my head a couple of years ago about how to um you know, mix things up and and change it. and um And that sort of resulted now in being the time um a couple of my clients are celebrating their like 10 years, Cogut Spirit as being the sort of main one. So I thought, um you know, what better time to do it than the same time that they're celebrating a decade um and the funeral will be at their place too, which is fun. um But yeah, so it's a rebrand. And for me, a chance to sort of like refocus a little bit on what I want to do for the next year.
00:21:38
Speaker
10, 20 years, um I am approaching the big four o So it is all lining up with that as well. um Bit of a midlife crisis maybe situation. But yeah, sort of just like professionally, you know, having done it for 10 years, I'm like, this is the career now, obviously it has been for a while. um So yeah, sort of just thinking about what I want to do going forward. I've learned a lot in terms of how my business works, what people like, what I like to do, which I think is the main thing as well. Um, sort of just trimming off a few parts of my job that I am not so passionate about and focusing on the bits that I am really passionate about. Um, so yeah, it is a, it is a rebrand, but essentially I'll still be doing the same thing, still working with the same clients. Um, had to, you know, it was obviously a very important thing for me to get across to them. Um, with this whole, you know, joke death thing, I said, I'm not actually dying. There's nothing wrong with me. Please keep employing me. Yep. And so, you know, the the name will change on the invoices that I send you, but that's sort of about it. Um, for most of the clients, the main ones anyway, um, it's sort of just those on the outskirts that have, um, I've had to have further conversations about what I do for them and what I can't do going forward.
00:22:46
Speaker
um as a part of that. um But yeah, it's been, um as I said, number of years since it's been in my head. And then probably about six months ago, i decided that this was it. This was the year. um And then I've um done a few things uh in terms of starting that journey just sort of forcing myself to do it i i engaged a friend of mine who is a designer and specializes in brand strategy as well so i've i've sort of worked with her a couple of months ago now to sort of um start the actual transition and that process in itself was quite eye-opening too um and just helped me like ah really
00:23:29
Speaker
get all the things that were swirling around my head and, and sort of get someone else like a, you know, third party to objectively say, Oh, it feels like you're doing this. And I was like, I didn't think that was a priority, but now that I've said it and you've said it back to me, it, it makes so much sense. Um, so yeah, put a lot of work into this brand strategy.
00:23:46
Speaker
um and hopefully i guess by the time this comes out it'll all be out in the world yeah yeah it's pretty interesting that uh you know isn't that normally what you're doing with clients right sort of trying to help them understand what they're trying to do or say or where they're going with their a brand potentially not something you can do for yourself i guess is what you realize there yeah it is it is something that famously um designers do struggle to do is to work on themselves. And so, um, I was very keen to outsource that as much as I, um, you know, really, uh, love my own creativity and and want to have control of everything, which is, you know, maybe a bit of ah a weakness of mine. Um, I, I sort of wanted to give this a go to see how it would work in someone else's hands and
00:24:34
Speaker
Um, met this girl fortuitously, um, a few months back and she just seemed to get it. Um, which was good. And yeah, as I said, it's been quite a, um, uh, a journey of uncovering certain things, which wouldn't have come out if I had tried to do it myself. Um, and also it's just a, a thing of, um, I had to get it started or else like the work never stops with the client work and I wouldn't have afforded myself the time to like start this at all without engaging someone else I felt um so that was a ah big part of it as well yeah cool cool and in terms of things you won't do anymore it's still very much in the beer space it's just what elements of design or aspects of what you have been working on that you you don't want to focus on so much yeah I think um I'm pretty versatile as a designer and and throughout like COVID, I really had to open myself up to doing more things and and you know actively went to my existing clients and who are you know producing less beer. And so what else can I do for you? And so found myself doing um things like murals, um which is which is great and fun. um And then you know like managing social media and sort of working on a bit of you know strategy and direction there, as well as design of social media stuff, websites as well. um
00:25:53
Speaker
myself and and Tim, who's worked for a long time. We've built quite a few websites over the the past few years, um but it's sort of got to the point where, you know, obviously COVID's done and that um effort to expand my offerings is not really required anymore because of how much work that I just have on. um And so, yeah, decided to trim those things back, those specific things that I mentioned essentially, um and really focus on packaging, so so definitely still you know doing a lot of cans, but also branding and strategy as well. um
00:26:28
Speaker
And it's one of those things that um I've done you know a bit of work for people. Obviously, I think my design always starts in a place of um strategic decisions and you know and branding beyond just pretty pictures on the can. And so looking forward to the next 10 years, I think that's what I want to do. And to be honest with it was like,
00:26:50
Speaker
ah The ideas for me are the most exciting thing. um And so, you know, the biggest change, I guess, when it comes to looking for new work in the next little while is probably less of a focus on illustration too. um It's always been a bonus that I'm okay at illustrating to have that um in my warehouse to offer clients. And so, you know, i can come up with the brand for them um and then I can take the next step and actually physically draw draw the thing for you too. um And it's one of those things that I do find pride and joy in seeing my illustrations come to life.
00:27:26
Speaker
But for me, just the ideas are essentially the more exciting thing. And so, yeah, going forward, branding, um strategy, and packaging are the three things, and that's sort of it. And you know it will take a lot of work for me to...
00:27:38
Speaker
not say yes to people, yeah which has always been a big thing. um But yeah, as part of this ah step forward, it's just something that I'm going to have to you know adhere to myself very strictly or else things will just carry on like they have been and I won't be happy. you know Yeah. Yeah. Which I guess is the benefit of the funeral. That's a nice yeah clean snap. Yep. And there has been a few clients where I'm just like, I won't follow it with a, and I'm still doing the same thing. It's just like, I'm literally stopping pocket beagles. I'm dead. Don't email me anymore.
00:28:09
Speaker
We're done. yeah cool Okay. Right. And, um, I guess, you know, to go back where, where did pocket beagles and your love for craft beer come from?
00:28:20
Speaker
Maybe you'd love for craft beer first. Yeah.
Clint's Journey into Craft Beer Design
00:28:22
Speaker
I, um, like I've liked beer for as long as I have drunk it. Um, and I remember ah you know, as ah as a young 18 year old um going to the bottle shop for the first time and, um you know, finding all these new beers. And I think probably to begin with, I was just drinking whatever, you know, my friends were as well, but it very quickly became evident that I wanted to try new things. um And so this was before I understood what craft beer was and I would go for, you know, the exotic imported stuff um that was there. And, you know, looking back, um then this was, you know, so more than a decade before i I started my actual desire journey. Looking back, there's all these things that have happened in my life where I'm just like, I was destined to do this like yeah from day one. Like you were collecting labels and all that kind of thing. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Like, you know, just, just like taking photos of them and just recognizing them and, you know, and intently going for the new and exciting thing. Um, and then I guess, you know, like all craft beer drinkers, you'd go to the party and talk to your mates about it and say, what do you think of this? And blah, bla blah, blah. Something a little bit more interesting than having the same drink that everyone else is having.
00:29:32
Speaker
Um, so yeah, always been interested in the new thing. And then I guess that naturally evolved into craft beer being the obvious, um, thing to have an interest in.
00:29:43
Speaker
um and then, yeah, so it was, it was a bit later in life. Um, when I was 28, uh, that I decided to go back to school to study design. Um, and I'd previously studied marketing and advertising straight out of school, um, at uni, uh, over in WA and, um,
00:30:01
Speaker
really enjoyed that um period of my life and and it was that point where i sort of discovered that notion of i really like coming up with ideas and i could see a way um i guess of making a career at that point thinking it was marketing and advertising um out of you know generating ideas and and doing that for a job um and so yeah really enjoyed that uh unicorns Then sort of got side swiped with the whole young person joining a band, becoming a rock star thing and whatever else, which is how I. You did play and did you play in Afghanistan there? Yes. Yeah. Just a little teaser for everyone. Yep. um
00:30:41
Speaker
So yeah, you know, that was a part of my life for a little while and that's the reason why I moved from WA to um Melbourne and i have now been here for a long time, but anyway. that all sort of dissolved and then um found myself late twenties, not knowing what to do. um Thought I could go back to school and study either art or design.
00:31:01
Speaker
um And you know, I thought logically design is probably the one that I could make an actual career out of. um So yeah, just did this sort of sort of um short two year graphic design course in the city. And um at that point,
00:31:17
Speaker
The Pocket Beagles name had been created. um And so I was um over in the UK, ah sorry, Europe, um on sort of my first big you know international journey. And I remember, actually it was the UK, i was in Scotland, um and drunkenly came up with this phrase, Pocket Beagles, and I thought it would be a really nice name for a stationary brand. And so I'd written it down in my notebook, um which I had always carried around with me.
00:31:44
Speaker
Um, and then after that, um, journey came back and started a Tumblr and so started actually like uploading my art onto the computer for the first time. but always, I'd always physically drawn things like cartooning from a very young age, but never really dabbled in, um, the next step of computer graphics.
00:32:00
Speaker
And so started at Tumblr. It was called Pocket Beagles. I guess it still exists. Go find it. So you can see some of my very early work there. um And so then, yeah, fast forward a couple of years, I'm at school. We have to come up with a business and and as part of the course, you know, they help you set up an ABN.
00:32:17
Speaker
And yeah. And so naturally I just nominated it as pocket beagles to be the one. Um, and you know, it is a cute, quirky name and I think it has worked in my favor in terms of, um, pure interest that people are, you know, intrigued and think it's ah something different, I guess, rather than just using my own name as a studio or something like that.
00:32:38
Speaker
Um, I have been offered like discount dog products a lot in my life as well. People think it is something to do with beagles, but I've never had one. um You could sell it though. That stuff's expensive. Dog food, dog treats, so much money. Yeah. um So I don't know, like, yeah, I never had a beagle. It just, it just was what it was in terms of the name. Yeah.
00:32:59
Speaker
And yeah, I feel like it's sort of served its purpose. But um going into this course, I had that love of beer still. And, you know, thought to myself at the start, I was like, I want to come out of this course having designed a beer. At that point, I guess, a bottle label or a decal or something to that effect.
00:33:18
Speaker
And yeah, so that was my goal and starting my own business. i always knew I wanted to work for myself going into the course as well. And so those were my two goals. um And before I'd finished the course, like I started that journey and and started designing beer stuff as well. um So it was very good to like have a clear direction going into this course. And yeah, I can't imagine myself doing anything else. Yeah. Right. Right. And I mean, when did this sort of ah conversations, because a lot of people, well, certainly when I met you, it was when you were designing Froth magazine and where did that sort of come about?
00:33:54
Speaker
Um, yeah, broth was still whilst I was studying. Um, and I guess in those early years, um, a big focus for me was on networking. yeah Um, you know, to get my foot in the door
Networking and Influence in Craft Beer Design
00:34:06
Speaker
with something. And, um, so it was always going to, you know, beer events and bars, um, and just talking to anyone who was interested in it and, you know, hoping something would pop up from there. And, um, yeah, one of these things was, was meeting Emily, um, on a night out and this was in the bar that we probably first met at, I guess, at Sunmoth in the Sunmoth, yes. That was a legendary, it was a cafe and a bar in the city. Died during COVID, I think, but quite a um really great place you could go to ah in the city at any point, kind of, couldn't you? you'd often run into beer people. They're often often reps and stuff working on their laptops early in the day, but it was... It was great for somewhere you you knew you could always go if you wanted a good coffee or a good beer, which I still think there's kind of not that many options now, actually, for something like that. Yeah, definitely. ah It was definitely a a really great venue in the heart of the city that was um at the forefront of pouring some, you know, really like top-notch craft beer as well. Definitely a lot of La Serene and stuff like that in the early days. Yeah. um And so, yeah, I was working there. Um, obviously whilst I was studying needed to earn some money as well. Um, and so I had a job there, but then would also find myself drinking there. And then yeah, one of these, uh, nights met Emily and, um, she told me at the time that she was starting this beer magazine.
00:35:26
Speaker
Um, and you know, i said, yeah, I'm a designer. I, you know, I know what I'm doing having done like one unit of InDesign at that point. And, um you know, the next day I emailed her and said, hey, you know, are serious about this thing? I'm definitely keen to help. um And then, yeah, I think it was like two weeks later that we literally printed the first issue of that. And then, um yeah, still starting. And that was just a huge um foot in the door that I was looking for and and pretty much has led to all of my jobs to this point, um which, you know I'm very thankful for. But I think, ah you know, it the thing that I'm,
00:36:04
Speaker
thankful for most is my understanding and desire to go out and network and put those opportunities up front, which I, yeah, as I said, focused a lot on in those formative years to sort of set myself up and, um and, and whenever young designers or anyone who wants to do what I do, it comes to me for any sort of advice. That's literally like it networking. You just need to go and talk to people. And it was something that didn't naturally come to me either. Like I am pretty Um, reserved, um, normally. And, and so I sort of had this, uh, almost fake persona that I had to put on because I knew I wanted to do it. I had to do this in order to like get some sort of success. Um, and so, you know, invented this like, uh, outgoing charismatic person, whatever. And then a few years later, i guess when I like, um, met, uh, Joanna.
00:36:58
Speaker
At that point, i actually like discovered the true self, like myself and found out that was the guy that I was like pretending to be, but it was actually me. And the, you know, the, um, uh, yeah, the other person who was a bit more timid was not me and i was just whatever. So yeah, networking was great. Met her, um, met a lot of other people through that. I've got clients from.
00:37:18
Speaker
that magazine still to this day, 10 years later. So that was a good meeting. Yeah. And what was your, what were sort of thinking about craft beer in those early days? I felt like there was a lot of probably, there was some beautiful artwork out there. Sure. Like Garage Project had been around for a long time overseas. You had, i think probably something like McKellar leading the way and and things like that. And locally Kaiju would have, yeah, they would definitely had launched by then with a real design focus, but a lot of people still seem to be sort of, i don't know, doing design themselves or maybe buying it quite cheaply and off the shelf. it Was that sort of your memory of it as well? Or was like, God, this could all be a lot better because look at how good some of it is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think um at the time, the overseas markets were just like so more advanced than we were in terms of design and branding in Australia. And yeah, those people that you mentioned, literally McKellar. Omnipolo, Tuol and Kaiju, I think were ah the four that for me were like top tier um going into or even before the design course and all that sort of stuff. I looked at them and just thought that's, they've got it, you know, they've they've nailed it. um
00:38:30
Speaker
And then again, thinking about like making a career of it, looking at the rest of the shelf um in Australia and and and literally thinking, damn, like no one else gets it the way that these other people do. And so, you know, maybe there is a chance for me to come in and and help people like look as good as these other brands that i admired um so yeah definitely saw a lot of opportunity there um and a lot's changed since then as well um which yeah i'm sure yeah yeah cool and um you know i think like kogan spirit is that as you mentioned before one of your
00:39:06
Speaker
I guess this client that you've sort of very much been on the journey with at the start, I think they might've got one beer out maybe before it became pocket yeah beagled, a fied. What were those conversations like? and I imagine they might've gone, oh, actually great to meet you. We probably need a graphic designer. We we knew we wanted to launch a brewery, but maybe needed some help in that space. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So they had released one beer in keg only, the henchman, and they had a logo designed by someone who no doubt just went to a logo generator online and and Um, so that was there very, very briefly, but we, um, we actually featured co-conspirators in the first issue of froth homebrewers. And then a year later when they started their, um, thing properly, their brand properly, um, I guess, because, you know, I was the only person that they knew who did design. They were like, Hey, do you want to do this? And I was like, yes, is the moment I'd be waiting for. Um, and yeah, just again, one of those circumstances similar with froth where like,
00:40:05
Speaker
I didn't really have the experience to do um what I wanted to do with it, but I had the ambition. And so it was a really nice opportunity for them who didn't have anything um or any knowledge of it for me to be able to like present something and work with the nuggets of an idea that they sort of had to begin with. And it was just one of those circumstances where it just gelled um in terms of the illustration style that I initially presented to them.
00:40:34
Speaker
for it, which they, um, which they liked. Um, and thankfully, you know, it was strong enough to be able to carry the brand design wise, um, through the years with them. And, um, yeah, it's been, been a journey, but they're just like such a great client in in terms of them trusting me and sort of I want to repay the trust that they had in me, you know, on an inexperienced designer who at that point hadn't made a beer can or anything like that before. And then just saying, yeah, sure, sure you can do it. Sure. You can um put the character on the can and not put the logo on the front. And that, you know, speaking of like, um, to all, um, and these international brands, um That was definitely you know inspired by them. And I thought, I want to be like those guys and they don't have the logo. The design or the graphic or the brand speaks for itself on the front without having to display the logo there as well. um So again, you know can't thank them enough for trusting me. We obviously have gone through some changes in the in the past few years and whipped that logo back on the front. But I did the job for a number of years and yeah, I was stoked that we gave it a go.
00:41:39
Speaker
Oh, cool. And before we take a break, I mean, any big, you know, things you most works, you're most proud of or favorite clients or and anything like that, that you look back and go, God, that was such a good thing to have done. Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
yeah I mean, like I think froth was, was a great experience. um I definitely do like cringe looking back at the actual quality of the content that I was producing both in terms of anytime I managed to illustrate a cover, or the actual design on the inside. But each each issue that we released was a new lesson for me, basically, in terms of design. um And, you know, there were a couple of ah memorable covers, the the Gabs ones. Gabs ones are the greatest things. Yeah, which people still talk about. And I guess I can't remember whether the first one or the second one was 2019, but that's, you know, a long time ago now
00:42:33
Speaker
Um, and people still mention it frequently. And, um, I've only just recently gotten another job where people directly reference that and say, you know, it's because of this that we're hiring you now, six years later.
00:42:46
Speaker
Um, and, uh, yeah, that, so that was a lot of fun. Definitely like a pivotal thing. It's great to see people. um I think Beer Mash have it framed in there. Yeah. Bar as well. For those who haven't seen it, it's kind of a Where's Wally take on Gabs where a lot of the breweries have been turned into characters. managed to sneak onto one of the covers, I think. And James, our founder, was on there too at some point. Yeah. um and And for me, like i think also that was an opportunity for me to like show...
00:43:12
Speaker
um some personality and humor which is something that i always try and inject where possible um in my other branding work too because craft beer you know isn't that serious and people are there to enjoy it and so if if you can you know uh have some fun with it from every sort of angle from the start with design then i think that just makes for ah a better product um but yeah in addition to the the froth covers very proud of co-conspirators um and the sheer amount of characters that we've created um and i still think it's like such a solid ah brand in terms of recognize ability um in the shelf.
00:43:48
Speaker
And then yeah, more recently the one drop rebrand, um which I did like, I'm very, very happy how that turned out. And it was another example of um a brewery, like a dream brewery.
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah. Before they contacted me, I had written down like in my goals for the year before that one drop were the top of the list that I wanted to work for. And that job really dropped in my lap out of nowhere.
00:44:12
Speaker
Um, and this rebrand came along and, um, it was quite organic. And fortunately, like I had enough confidence in myself to push back on some of the ideas that they were trying to present to me as well. Um,
00:44:27
Speaker
And I think together we came up with this really good thing. And, you know, at the end of it, they were like so very appreciative. And it's only a few months old, maybe like six months old or something at the moment. So i' still finding its feet in the world. I have don't think I've even posted on Instagram. um But very, very proud of that um outcome as well.
00:44:44
Speaker
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00:45:54
Speaker
Welcome back. And Clint, what about breweries today that really excite you, whether in Australia or elsewhere in the world? who who do you love from a design and graphic point of view? difficult question that I saw you had written down um because I unfortunately sort of like naturally see flaws in things yeah rather than seeing like, you know, the perfection. and there's definitely like so many good brands and and way better things than than I have created myself out there as well. um But ah thinking about things that I've seen recently that I think are ah like different and unique, um good land I really love like locally and, um you know, for the fact that
00:46:35
Speaker
this thing we're going through with ai which i don't want to talk about too much or at all um for these guys to uh you know have these these hand painted like absolutely beautiful backgrounds on the yeah cans um which is something that they you know don't really shout too much about but when you discover it and find that thing then every time like you go to a bottle shop you want to pick it up and i'm looking so closely at the details uh to see you know what ah their sister has painted Um, and they're just really beautiful and understated as well. Um, in a time where a lot of the illustration work is over the top, um, in terms of colors and and patterns and ideas and whatever else, um, they've sort of just, you know, looked at the resources that they have, um, and utilize that and just like consistently delivered this really beautiful imagery every time.
00:47:28
Speaker
So Goodland, I really love. They've got a great logo as well. And one thing which, one brand that sort of popped up recently, which I really, really like is the Feral rebrand. Yep.
00:47:39
Speaker
um And it's quite funny. ah I'm not too sure how familiar you are with it or what you've seen of it. um But it's sort a bit steampunk kind of yeah industrial. Yep, a little bit industrial um and a little bit like... ah
00:47:58
Speaker
1984, like government oversight. There's some like um references and elements of that sort of idea. And and when I did the um the logo update for Co-Conspirators when they opened up their new brew pub, um the first idea that I presented to them before what we settled on was like bizarrely close to what they're doing now. um and like some of the, even some of the taglines, I think that I'd come up with like have appeared on, their advertisements and it's purely a coincidence because no one saw these things outside the room of of me and co-conspirators. Um, but yeah, I really, really liked that as well. Um, and yeah, they're working with some local design agency over there. Who's, who's doing a really great job.
00:48:40
Speaker
Um, so yeah, Feral and Goodland really great. Um, and it's still those, you know, those killer, um, breweries I mentioned before, like I'm the Polo still just kicking it out of the park every time internationally with beautiful designs that are so intrinsically like them. It's ridiculous.
00:48:55
Speaker
And what about what a brewery still messing up? We don't have to go into design, uh, into AI rather. I think if you want to, uh, hear Clint's thought oh on AI, it's in a story featured on the crafty fight, not that long ago That's right. And like, uh, well, just to quickly touch on AI because it is inescapable and it still sends me into a fit of rage. Um, yeah you did that article and then I i posted a few videos.
00:49:18
Speaker
Um, online, uh, about it as well. And, um, it obviously resonated with a lot of people, um, artists who follow me and and brands and and whatnot as well. Um, and in the weeks, like, uh, after that, so I, I, you know, I actually called out a couple of, uh, breweries online, just in my stories and stuff and said, you know, Hey, this is not what people want. And it was from a place of good intent, trying to inform them if they didn't know what damage they're doing to their brand by using AI. Um, and so I only did it to like, I only called out two breweries. Um, but now it's been weeks and weeks of receiving like, uh, DMs from everybody, anytime anyone uses AI. And it got so exhausting so quickly. um I sort of decided that I was just trying to remove myself a little bit from that conversation. Um,
00:50:06
Speaker
And so, yeah, what are breweries doing wrong using AI, obviously, like just, it's just silly. Um, uh, but I think just like, um, not having a good idea from the outset is the biggest thing that, you know, brands suffer from, and even breweries that have been around for for a decade or or more like ah presenting products and and aspects of their brand which just don't make any sense um in terms of either they're just nothing like it's just they're not trying to say anything or you match it against what you thought of the brand um what you know about the brand from uh previous interactions and that doesn't line up either um and so i think really just like
00:50:51
Speaker
If you are a brewery owner or or any sort of like drinks brand or whatever, having that identity understanding down pat from the start and having that to like go back and refer to every time you want to create a new product or social post or whatever. Um, and that's just like, it's branding 101. That's, you know, your personality should be shown in everything that you do and people, it should all make sense. Like be cohesive.
00:51:16
Speaker
Um, and so, you know, now there are brands which, uh, are doing exactly that And then, you know, ah but i do want to, can I mention one specifically, for which is like irked me recently, um, Holgate and they've been around for a long time.
00:51:33
Speaker
And they were, um you know, a brand that ah one of my like favorite beers growing up and and in that um time of discovering what craft beer was, um you know, their pale ale, the Macedon pale, like was, you know, the one for me. I loved, I loved the brand.
00:51:48
Speaker
um And, you know, they've gone here and there, I feel over the, over the course of the last say eight years or so. um And just recently I've seen them start coming out with these like pop culture cans.
00:52:02
Speaker
which a lot of other breweries sort of tap into, you know, that idea of millennial nostalgia and whatever else. But for me, like it's so clear cut, they're the wrong choice of brewery to do it, a brewery that does have some heritage to it. Um, and you know, uh, beautiful surroundings up there in the Macedon ranges. Like why are they, why do they have a can that references Mars attacks? Is this, ah is their latest thing that they've come out with? Like that for me just makes zero sense.
00:52:31
Speaker
Right. And it's just the illustration is fine. They do use a local designer up there, which is great. Um, but it's just bonkers when they've got so much to tap into from an identity perspective and they're just choosing to do the thing that they see other people doing.
00:52:43
Speaker
And they're just like, oh, let's, let's do that. Obviously that works or whatever, which is just not the way to go about, you know, selling cans. Yeah. I think the other example of that, or an example, I think in that space is probably like breweries when they do a hazy or something like that, they're like, we got to make our Oat Cream look like other Oat Creams because that's what a lot of people are doing. out there and it's like, well, your brand doesn't sort of do that. You could release an oat cream and make it sort of look like the lag you released last week or something like that.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So like you shouldn't be concerned, even though when you you know start a business and and part of the uh, part of your business plan and marketing plan, you you do look at, you know, the competition and what they're doing. Um, but the reason you would do that in a craft beer sense is to try and set yourself apart, um, and so your product most effectively where it links in strongly to your identity, which then links in with the customs that you're trying to sell to. Um, and you know, I think actually like a lot of, a lot of brands, uh, breweries probably don't have a marketing plan. Like it's so very evident, um, when they come out with a can like that, um that they don't have something to refer back to and say, does this line up with the things? And and you know like what you're saying, bringing it out to look like the other oat creams, great. that The other breweries already sold theirs to the bottle shop and to the bars. Why are you walking in with the same thing to try and sell it to them? Like come up with something different from a branding perspective.
00:54:08
Speaker
let alone a like product perspective also, and does an oat cream like relate back to your brand of, yeah of what you do? Why are you making like a fruity pulp sours? If people want to be lagers, you know, like all these things from like branding to product come back to your, your identity as a brand.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, and what about, you mentioned before, OneDrop being one of your proudest moments. I always think rebrands must be such a nightmare, particularly, potentially for the graphic designer. Correct me if I'm wrong, because you're dealing with someone whose child might be like five, ten years old. They know it needs to change, but... Still, it's hard to change it. And then when you do change it, there's a million beer, well, not a million beer drinkers. There's five loud beer drinkers out there who are like, this is the worst thing ever. You've ruined the brand. yeah I love, is that is that basically sum up what it's like to be in the rebrand rebrand space or is it actually more rewarding than that?
00:55:06
Speaker
Um, I mean, it is scary, but I guess if you, as a designer, um, have made the right decisions with everything that you're, you've been given throughout the process, then, you know, there's no reason to be ashamed. Um, and I'll say like, just to compare, um, the release of the OneDrop brand, which honestly I scrolled through every single comment on Facebook and Instagram, because you know, ah I do want to know what people are thinking about it. And there was not one negative thing. And that was because their previous logo was not aligned with them as a brand. And so they were at a point in their, ah in their journey um where they were themselves weren't identifying with the brand that they had created previously, you know, and you do have to start, you come up with a logo and you pay someone without maybe knowing where it's going to take you. And now they found them, you know, themselves in the, in the space where they are known for, you know, their sour beers and their drippy illustrations and all that sort of stuff. And then
00:56:01
Speaker
that was so jarring against their logo that they needed to rebrand. It was kind of stencil art. Yeah. Look. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was, that was, as I said, sort of like ah an organic um creation um of, of the rebrand. So that worked really, really well. um Comparatively I did the rebrand for batch brewing um maybe four years ago, I think now. And they were another brew who brewery who'd had had um their brand for 10 years, I think it was at at the time.
00:56:33
Speaker
And a very identifiable logo mark. And um they had a marketing person who I was dealing with um when they were like part of the ah joint venture with Wayward as well.
00:56:49
Speaker
And um so it was quite interesting for someone who normally deals directly with owners for me to deal with a marketing person was a joy because they you know saw things in a similar way um that I do as well and um and I thought she was great at her job and the initial interactions that we had were awesome and I thought great we're gonna you know create something really special like I'd had plenty of batch beers I've been to their brewery you know I love the brand and wanted to um make something that was a bit more modern and reflected them as what ah reflected their personality properly um and then it sort of took a bit of ah a left turn with um the director getting involved who is a great guy and i still work for batch now as well but he clearly wasn't ready um for this thing in the same way that maybe um those people around him were suggesting to him and so the brand didn't get to where it possibly could have in terms of an actual effective change. I think the logo is better than what we've created for them um than what it was. And definitely feels a bit more modern and clean. um But that one was met with probably 50-50 hate to people saying, oh yeah, I can see you know that it is slightly better or whatever. And that was painful, like reading these comments.
00:58:04
Speaker
but knowing what was behind the scenes that led to, you know, that end goal as well. So you do have to have a thick skin and as like, you know, a creative person, um, as you would understand you are like,
00:58:16
Speaker
emotionally connected to your work in a way where it does hurt when people don't get it. um But yeah, thankfully, you know, I understand it's just it's just business. Yeah. um And so you do have to take the good with the bad. Yeah. And do you think breweries need to sort of rebrand every so often or is it more about when you realise you're probably releasing beers you didn't think you were releasing or in a market that's changed or can some just keep, you know, ploughing through with the look they've always had?
00:58:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just um a matter of, ah you know, the the overall feeling and and it feeling um like it matches what you are producing and and say, you know, at like exactly what you're describing. If you've come to a point where you thought, oh, we didn't see ourselves making this sort of beer, but now we're doing and people resonate with it. Um, so now is the time to update the things as well. Um, and so there's no.
00:59:08
Speaker
Cut and fast rule of, of when to do it. Um, I think you yeah mentioned in your notes there like the five years and I feel that is a point naturally where people get a bit itchy about things, um, and start thinking about it and questioning it, but you really have to,
00:59:24
Speaker
um give a lot of consideration to what is wrong with your brand and what you don't like about it and how it doesn't align like it is a very um defined problem that you can work out whether it is a problem whether you need to update it or not um and i guess that you know goes back to the point of if you're starting a brewery do it right the first time and you'll set yourself up for you know 10 20 years rather than having to look at it again in in three years time and think damn that wasn't that wasn't quite right
00:59:56
Speaker
um Yeah, I think it's just, it's very um natural when it comes to that. And it always comes from a different place, whether whether it's the director and something that they just have in their minds that's wrong with it, or, you know, the marketing team or feedback from customers, it'll come through. And when it's obvious, it's obvious.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yeah, right. And what about, what what do you see taking off at the moment in the design space? Is there anything in craft beer you really like seeing or, I don't know, other drink spaces where you're like, oh, geez, do breweries learn from what winemakers or RTD distilleries are doing?
01:00:31
Speaker
um I think because of all the ah financial ah hardships that have happened, I think, like, craft beer has stagnated a little bit um in the past five years in terms of new ideas and and trends obviously people are ah less willing to take risks particularly with products um whereas if you go back pre-covered and we had the whole seltzer wave and stuff like people were keen to try something new and attract new customers um and i feel like you know maybe we've we're on the horizon of getting out of this um
01:01:06
Speaker
financial difficulty period. um And, you know, I think my own business is a ah pretty good gauge of that um where where people spend less money when things are tight or they spend more money. And and right now I feel like people are feeling pretty confident in terms of breweries.
01:01:21
Speaker
um And so we're maybe at a point where we can start getting back into creating new, in it ah innovative, like unique products, um, which then lends itself to like unique branding and the way to sell this particular thing.
01:01:38
Speaker
Um, in terms of trends, like I think from purely a design and and branding perspective, um, the retro movement has been big for a while now, and I still feel like there's breweries coming on board with it now when it's at the end of like the trend.
01:01:54
Speaker
um which is like painful to see. It's either, you know, you have your finger on the pulse and you are following these trends or whatever, um which you're always going to be behind, even if you are super quick with it, um or you're the first one to come out with a salsa, or you're the first one to come out with this,
01:02:11
Speaker
particular um design or a quirky name or whatever as well. um So yeah, like I'm pretty, I'm pretty bored at the moment, like in terms of what craft beer is presenting. um But I understand why people just don't want to take the risk.
01:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, big time. I sometimes wonder how far, like what world can you go to now as well as if too many ideas being tried, but I don't know, there's still a lot of space. There's there's so much space. And I think like, um, uh, we will be surprised in the next little a while. Like there's still plenty of room for crappier to grow and it's always been,
01:02:45
Speaker
um so flexible, particularly compared to winemaking or spirits or whatever in terms of what it can do and what people see beer as. um Whereas, you know, like 10 years ago, one was doing pulp sours or things like thick cream smoothies and and whatever else. And so it can change again. um And the important thing for brands is like What are you passionate about making?
01:03:09
Speaker
um Where can you see gaps in the market? What new and unique things can you come up with before everybody else does? And then that's like a pretty, ah not surefire, but a good way to try and get some leverage over your competitors.
01:03:26
Speaker
Right. And, um, to finish things up, I mean, what what's your dream client like to work for other than they pay on time. As in the one that I haven't got yet. Yeah, exactly. Not your, I'm not asking you, who do you love most of the people you who pay pay your wage? Look, I think, um, as a part of the, ah strategy sessions, which I said that I held, um, with pocket beagles into the next iteration of the brand. And so these were the questions that were like posed to me by, uh, this girl who was helping me out as well. And, um,
01:04:04
Speaker
It was for me, i think people who do want to like push the boundaries a little bit, like going forward. Um, you know, I mentioned that I'm, I'm bored, um, with things, uh, as a part of this, uh, next step, by the way, the the new brand is called can projects. and I haven't said it yet, but I think it's, it's pertinent to what's coming next. Um, the brand is for me is going to be set up almost like a brewery, like a imaginary brewery where.
01:04:32
Speaker
I can um sort of ah get some creative output outside of the paid clients and almost show people how creative they can be both in terms of design, packaging and product types too. So a little sneak peek into what that's gonna look like in terms of socials and whatever. Just trying to like ignite my own creative creativity a little bit as well, but also hopefully like spark some things in the industry and they you know can look at this can and think,
01:04:59
Speaker
why Why are you making this sort of thing? Why would you present this? That actually has given me a great idea. We can go ahead and do this instead. So I think I really want to work for people who like want to shake things up a little bit. um They're always the most exciting and also those who pay our time.
01:05:15
Speaker
Nice one. Clint, thanks for being a part of this chat. No worries. Thanks, Will. Cheers, mate. Cheers.
01:05:25
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:05:39
Speaker
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01:05:55
Speaker
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