Transcript
Speaker: Our first brewer, Jimmy, when he came in, he came from Young Henry's. And he must have, I look back on it and go, fuck poor Jimmy, he must have. Who is this idiot? Yeah, he must have found it. homespun ways. Yeah, he must have found it so difficult. I had nothing written down.
Speaker: My name is Kristen McGarry, I'm Head of Production at Your Mate's Brewing Company on the Sunshine Coast. We were having problems with collecting data, finding data when we needed to look back at quality recipe design so that we could get move forward with a fast-paced growing brewery.
Speaker: Beer 30 really helps with the whole brewery operation from start to finish, from raw ingredients and procuring them to invoicing for finished goods and making sure that those invoices are getting out to the customer. and everywhere in between, really, really easy to onboard. We were using the system within 24 hours. Being a really fast growing brewery with the real focus on quality, we see Beer 30 helping us achieve those quality goals, making sure that we don't have incidents like product recalls or any kind of substandard beer going out because all that data is there within the program and
Speaker: The bigger that we become, the more data we collect and the more powerful that tool becomes to us.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James, back here after a bit of an absence. Have have you been Will? Have you been going sailing the ship? Well, i I'll tell you what, James, I've had some very good feedback on Luke being a co-host. I hate to tell you, but the the The listeners do love him. They did say they miss James, but there was a lot of people were that Luke McCarvey, he's pretty incredible. I said, go check out thefullmeasure.com.au. Well, love that little bit of a smooth, smooth promotion there. Yeah, so as a result, guess we've had a temporary return to the, I guess, the old format. We're to have a bit of a brief news chat here straight into a long form interview that recorded at Grainstock a few weeks ago. This, technically, I guess, the interview with Oisin from Jervis Bay should have gone out on Tuesday. But we could try and blame, I guess, you know, the public holiday here in Victoria. that have a part it as well, though. I mean, I certainly wasn't working on Tuesday. So that, yeah, that doesn't help. But yeah, I've just just to explain as much as anything for all those people thinking, why am I not getting back to emails at the minute? Been dealing with a bit of a health issue on the home front. So I've been as much, if not more nurse slash carer than journalist over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker: So that was ah kind of unplanned, but things are back on track. My wife was home yesterday. um I think it's still still going to be a bit of time away from the office, but I'm all heading in the right direction. um have to say my my daughter, my eldest, did say a few days ago um that I'd make a great single parent, which I thought was A, in really bad taste given her mother was still in hospital. And also I'm pretty sure you and the people at my gym, my attendants would suggest otherwise. But i'm yeah, all going well now. So I will do my best to get caught up with my very long list of missed to do things and my inbox as quickly as I can. and Hopefully we get the ah the podcast back into the the new schedule that we only kicked off probably three or four weeks ago. And yes, well, James has been away. I've been racking my brains for stories. i've got I don't have James here to sort of bounce them all off. And I was, oh, maybe this is a bit of a negative way to introduce this story. But I was thinking, damn, it's been a really tough year for mixed culture beer, hasn't it? Like if you think about how we felt like one of the first stories we wrote this year was about wildflower going into hibernation.
Speaker: Uh, then you've had dollar bill, um, sobra messer opened and closing, not a great year for mixed culture beer. And as I was thinking that, was like, I really need to chat with the team at Caldera Brewing and Blending. Uh, they're in the Northern rivers in, uh, Mwurlumbar, which is Mervar maybe. Merva is always the easy option I go for. there's a reason the locals always call it Merba. Uh, and I was like, I wonder how they're doing. And yes, I i chatted with Nick. It was your first question. What the hell are you doing? yeah just Just look around. he called me and we had this great chat and then about 10 minutes and I said, Oh, look, uh, there's kind of an ulterior motive of calling here. I was kind of wondering how people are still making mixed culture beer and Saison. They're dedicated to Saison. So Nick's the brewer co-founder. He runs it alongside Hayley, his partner. And then, uh, they've got another partner, more of a silent partner, Dom. Uh,
Speaker: And he's like, yeah, things are going well. They're a small operation. They make a thousand liter batches. They really are about championing the local flute fruit in the Northern rivers. We went deep into sort of the topography and the soil types of ah the region and the volcanic soil caused by Wollumum, also known as Cloud Catcher, which Stonewood did beer. And Mount Warning.
Speaker: Uh, also yes, formerly known as a lot of locals have moved away from Mount warning in the same way. um ah Hobart sort of locals ah call their mountain something different now as well. Uh, yeah, Nick, uh, went really into the, loves the fruit they grow everything. um so yeah, really champions that through his beer. Uh, they have a unique situation where they actually Brew on Spangled Rongo's kit, which is ah another independent brewery out there. They're literally next door. So Nick goes in, brews on their brewery and then ferments the wort, ages the beer in but their barrels. And they're opening a joint tap room in a couple of weeks, Saturday 21. It's called The Coop. And I have to say, when I saw it was called the Coop, I was like, as Will left a dash out there, should it be Coop? But it's yeah it's actually a play on ah many sort of meanings sort of of Coop and Coop with sort of Coop relating to... Spangled Drongo is a type of bird, so it relates to that, but then also barrels as well. Cooperage. Yeah, and then it is also the Coop, so they're sort of going for that.
Speaker: Neither of them have hospitality offerings. Caldera has been opening their tap room like four hours a week, basically, and it's been really popular. They brew, both of these breweries are also basically behind the massive stone and wood production facility. So the staff there are definitely like keen to have a brewery. Well, there's connections as well, aren't there, between, you know, the the new or the the newer independent breweries and stone and wood as well. There's there's some sort of, you know,
Speaker: Joy, it's a bit of shared history there. Yeah, definitely. I mean, James Perrin, who was long-term sustainable advocate at ah Stone and Wood. He's one of the owners of ah Spangled Dronko as well and leads there. that They do really amazing work um for reforestation. um incredibly sustainable brewery, which is both of these brewers are aligned on it. And Nick from Caldera and Brian from Spangled Drongo, the two head brewers there, they worked really closely at Bolter. After the sale, when there was a massive expansion there, they they sort of were the team members tasked with really overseeing a lot of that and seeing it. So that they have a long working relationship, so it's no longer that they've sort of
Speaker: managed to build this sort of i business, businesses that can sort of coexist in a nice way. um I thought it was interesting. And Nick was like, you know, there's mechanics in our industrial unit. They all work together as well. There's one's a mechanic, one's a panel beater. They're different businesses, but they're sending people each other's way yeah all the time. Like this is what you've got to do as a small business. That's why all the fast food places are always on the same junction of an arterial road. No one else wants to be near them either. Yeah. Good stuff. And I guess and talking of ah new or newish tap rooms, you've been up date last week on Hobart Brewing Co. and They sort of moved a while back, but sort of wanted it bit of time to get their feet under the table.
Speaker: Yes, yeah, I caught up with team there again. um They moved north up ah up onto ago Argyle Street. Their home is being ah turned into a football major richard a football so stadium, the Red Shed. So now they've taken over what was Overland Brewing. But it's a very different space to how Overland were using it. They've made it very Hoobut Brewing, HBC, as the locals would say. So, yeah, great to check in with the team there and update their page on Crafty Pie.
Speaker: Excellent. And I guess one of the few times we see Hobart brewing beers and many Tasmanian beers on the mainland is when Pint of Origin comes around every May. um This is probably one of the things that has slid in my my temporary sort of partial absence. But in an ideal world, we will be closing registrations for Pint of Origin 2027 next week. I know you and luke Luke spoke about it. um on the show last week it's going to run from May 21st to 30th if you would like your venue to be involved and do get in touch we'll include a link in the show notes also any any breweries out there who'd love to be part of the festival feel free to drop Will or I an email either james craftyyt dot com or will at or will at craftypint.com we'd like to keep a bit of a list and then we can put you in touch with the venues once they've all been allocated hopefully by the end of this month although we kind of keep it under our hats a bit longer than that um But yeah, so that's, it's well, still six or seven months away, but you know, these things do tend to roll around pretty quickly. You know, I know if I was a gambling man, I'd imagine those Tasmanian beers might still be at the same pub as they have for the last few years. Yeah. I'm i'm i'm sure at least half the venues will be staying as they have been. There's theres certain people there that'd be like, you know, you put the tender out for host venues and you know, there's a few that like, you will have to prize my cold dead hand. I'll be liquidated before I give up, before I give up bringing Hobart Brewing Co-beers into this, ah into this pub.
Speaker: Exactly. and And I guess and talking of ah upcoming festivals, actually sticking in Melbourne, um Crafted crafty Festival's debut in Melbourne is coming up but or less than three weeks away from now. So we're two and a bit weeks on November the 21st. So they've they've been running for 10 years on the Gold Coast um and they're heading down to Melbourne for the first time on November the 21st. We've got a link that as well. They've also got a competition running where you and a mate could win a trip to Melbourne, tickets to the event and a night's accommodation in a hotel as well. um And I guess looking further afield and back to May in Melbourne, but then further afield in Sydney, Will?
Speaker: ah Yes. Well, we also have a Gabs is back and it's back in Melbourne at its ah spiritual home they're calling. I almost said original home. That would be the local tap house. That would ah really annoy some few older craft heads, wouldn't it? Like me. yeah yeah Yes. Mostly you who was there. Yeah. So Gabs is back at the Royal Exhibition building, the grand um grand old building that was in for many years on May 14th and May 15th. Yep. And then Sydney, what's that? Six months later. yeah yeah November 19 and 20 in White Bay Power Station right near what was White Bay Brewery and is now White one of four Sydney breweries. in Which is under the same ownership yeah as Gab's now is yeah under the Jerry Schwartz sort of team's ownership. um So yeah, lots of festival business there and I guess a festival of sorts that we were at a few weeks ago, grain stock, I guess more industry gathering than festival. um I guess the last of the interviews that we recorded there was with Oisin Sweeney from Jervis Bay Brewing Co um on the south coast New South Wales. um We were talking about sustainability know via ah James Perrin in his time at Stone & Wood, Spangledrongo. Spangledrongo? I've been that that long away from work. I can't even say D's anymore. um But in terms of um breweries with a sustainability um mindset, Jervis Bay would be up there. Oisin told us that his um his degree was in ecology. So it's it's something that he'd been interested in from the start, i think before he became a brewer. Yeah, and we sat down with him in the the podcast room at Grainstock.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a great chat. um Enjoy it. Yeah, it covers the length and breadth of the brewery's history. I'd love to check it out one day. I haven't actually made it in before, but listening back to I was like, God, I really need to get to get to the South Coast more often. There's a lot of breweries there I want to check out.
Speaker: lot of breweries um and a lot of beautiful coastline as well. So, yeah, that's coming up after the break. um Next week we should be back to the ah the normal rhythm, hopefully. Can you call it a normal rhythm when we don't even get it for about three weeks before it all went wrong again? And you have to remember, James, that we're getting very close to the end of the year, so we're going to a whole other thing for a little while. Oh, yeah, you get you get three weeks of normal rhythm and then it's the end of year stuff and then we'll take some time off. So let's just just say normal is going to start again in February and or late January and God knows what that's going to look like by by then. But anyway, and thanks for joining us. Enjoy the chat with Oshin.
Speaker: Cheers. Cheers.
Speaker: We're here in the Lallemand sponsored podcast studio at Grainstock 2026. I think I'm into my sixth recording of the day. we we Will, you've been sort of, you know rallying the troops, bringing them in, hosting stages. Herding the cats, I like to say.
Speaker: Herding the cats and hosting stuff on stage. um We're joined by Osh from ah Jervis Bay Brewing. thanks Thanks for coming down into our little ah podcast dungeon. No problem, Joel. Thanks for not putting the mask on me as I came in. You're allowed to know where it is. Osh, ah people might have already noticed a slight accent that you have. Do you want to tell us how you came to be living in Australia and also the south coast of New South Wales? Sure, sure. So Osh is short for Oshin, which is an Irish name. but So I'm... um Born and largely raised in Ireland, as northwest County Fermanagh, if you know your Irish geography. So um not coastal, actually. So I now live in the coast, which is really um I've lived there now for 13 years, so it's it's not new anymore. The accent's really softened. Yeah, thanks. Well, I'm glad because if I went home without it, I'd be in bit of trouble. I got home and people go, you sound so Australian. I'm like, what are you on about? Yeah, yeah. Not too Australian.
Speaker: But yeah, so grew up grew up in Ireland and what brought me to Australia was a girl. Basically, so cut a long story short there. No, we yeah we we met in Cork. um She was traveling. I was finishing a PhD and then we found out we were expecting a child. So out we came to Australia and that's 2010. So I've been here now, what, 16 years? And what was the PhD?
Speaker: Ecology. Yeah. So environment's my background ecology. So I worked in the ecology sector in universities and ah public service, which was my first job in Australia and South Australia for the Department of Environment down there, which was amazing. um And then NGO world as well and did that and then went into brewing. And did you go straight to the south coast when you moved over here?
Speaker: I did actually. We went to Jervis Bay straight off the bat. um I'd been there as a backpacker. So when we were trying to decide where we'd go in Australia, our thinking was, let's not go to a big city because you can't get trapped.
Speaker: um And then she's from the Riverina, which is where we you are today. Yeah, yeah're right. and Which is how we ended up going through Voyager, which is another story. But um but when we were deciding where to move, one of the one of the options was Wagga. And i sort of went, oh, maybe maybe we should try somewhere closer to the idyllic Aussie sort of coastal lifestyle before we try that. yeah So, yeah, we went with Jervis Bay. um But we actually only stayed there for
Speaker: maybe six weeks because my son was born and then I got a job almost straight away in South Aussie. So we up sticks and headed down to Mount Gambier for three and a half years and then came back because it's just a little too far away. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Right. And did you have any connection, ah either of you, to Jervis Bay at all or it just picked it as nice spot Just picked it because I'd been here as a backpacker. So wife hadn't even been here yet? she'd been here, but um Only like she'd been to the South Coast for holidays. Actually, her take on the South Coast was, no, let's not move there. It's it's wet and cold. Just move from Ireland.
Speaker: Surely, surely there's degrees. It's hard to find anywhere more wet and cold. Yeah, exactly. So I'd actually been here as a backpacker and visited family that my brother had made a connection with when he came to Australia. that We're now talking 40 years ago. um And that family lived in Nowra, the Shepherds, and Dr. Cole Shepard, who unfortunately died a few years ago, but a lovely, lovely family. And he actually brought me out to Jervis Bay. He's a real environmental enthusiast. Brought me out bird watching and snorkeling and all that sort of stuff. So I knew of it as a backpacker and knew there was a really nice area, not too far from Sydney. so and And also not too far from the Riverina yeah as on the Australian scale. Yeah, for sure. And what about your connection to craft beer? Were you a home brewer or anything like that? Were you drinking you know interesting beers when you were growing up back back home in Ireland?
Speaker: so Well, Guinness is interesting. Yes. I'm glad you said that because if you didn't count Guinness as interesting, then absolutely no. it was hard Yeah, basically. No. So when I was younger, i mean, growing up in Ireland, there really weren't craft beers.
Speaker: There just weren't. Even now, the craft beer scene is obviously much more mature, but it's such a difficult industry in Ireland because Guinness is just so dominant and for good reason. It's bloody lovely. Like when I go back to Ireland, I actually don't drink anything but Guinness.
Speaker: um But no, so i I got into craft beer. i got into brewing in Australia and very early on, actually. um Homebrew when I was growing up in Ireland wasn't a thing.
Speaker: The pub was a thing. So it's that cultural thing of you go to the pub, you go out with your friends for a drink rather than brew it at home and drink in the backyard like like in Australia. so And in terms of, um I guess that sort of interesting craft becoming a professional thing, it's quite a lovely story. The origin story of Jervis Bay Brewing is a bunch of school school dads or something like that. but Yeah, basically. ah I mean, you say it's an interesting origin story. I feel i feel it happens a fair bit. i You know, um four guys open a brewery. it's yeah But isn't the connection was through the kids or something like that? That is right. Yeah. yeah so um
Speaker: We, yeah our kids all played soccer for the local footy team and, you know, we'd meet on the sidelines and chit chat and one thing leads to another. And it suddenly turned out that and several of us were thinking of opening in a brewery because I'd been thinking of it for years and I'd actually got the name and like, you know, trademark that. um But it was only when you're on your own, it's like it's a pipe. Feels like a big thing. Yeah, exactly. yeah It's a serious risk to your family welfare to chuck it all in and go for a brewery. but But once there were four of us, it's obviously a lot more tractable. So so yeah, we basically, um once we all met, I became the brewer because I'd done home brew.
Speaker: and And the other business partners took other roles and one other business partner still works in the business and the other two guys and do something else now.
Speaker: They're still directors, but. Yeah, they' have yet more hands off. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. and And I guess the Jervis Bay is a pretty sort of distinct ethos so around sustainability. I get, you know, tell us about your PhD background that kind of makes sense. um So was that important from the start, you know, whether it's a point of difference or just kind of expressing your personality that to have that real strong sustainability story as part of what you did?
Speaker: It was right from the start, which is very gratifying. um And it wasn't just me. We, as the four directors of the brewery that didn't yet exist, had a meeting and talked about what we wanted the brewery to be, what we thought the value should be.
Speaker: And we all actually were very much aligned that sustainability, and environment and really strong local and community focus were important from the get go. So that was really music to my ears because To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't like to have gone into business with people who didn't have those values. And it was just kind of lucky that we all did. So, so yeah, one of those and lovely sort of chance meetings that have a few value aligned people, which is great.
Speaker: And, um, I mean, when you opened was a very interesting time in the world, right? You, the first place opened 2019, were hit by massive summer of bushfires, plenty of them local to you and then get, basically feels like they finished and COVID kicks off, right? Like what was that first period like? Did you, did you sort of really change track on the business or?
Speaker: Yeah, well, Yeah, you're right. i mean, the fires were we were, we were actually extremely lucky because the geography of Jervis Bay, if if you know it, if the Princess Highway running up the coast and then we kind of stick out a bit and it didn't get into the Bay and Basin. The the local ah RFS were cluey about um where they needed to defend. So we actually, the whole Bay and Basin was unburnt, which, well, nearly all of it was a little fire at St George's Basin, but compared to the rest of the coast, we got off well. but
Speaker: But yeah, New Year's Eve 2019, 2020. That's when people get evacuated on the beach, right? Absolutely. And like there was there was ash raining down on the brewery and it was like the skies were like some sort of Armageddon. um So we we dodged a bullet big time. But yeah, we sort of, you know, you're sitting there, there's ash coming down. like, I think we should probably close. So we were like, right, everybody, probably time to go back to the families now. So so, yeah. um So dodge a bullet with the fires. um
Speaker: A lot of people were a lot worse hit. You say dodge a bullet, but it still would have stopped a lot of people coming down in peak season. Yeah, it did. yeah um And then COVID, you're right. at it It was the following March yeah is when the lockdown started kicking in. Well, I remember that summer we were camping down on the south coast of in ah the Victoria and we had we't got some masks because there was so much smoke coming through the campground.
Speaker: And then it's like, it's like, what? I remember having to wear masks while we're, you know, on our summer holidays. And it was like, just good practice for three months later, having to wear them all the bloody time. We're used to this kid. Remember your holiday? Yeah. Yeah. um yeah So what but what was it like then sort of rolling from that into COVID with only, you know, only a few months under your belt, really? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: so I think we were actually lucky we were so young okay so because we didn't employ anybody. And you probably hadn't grown that far. you know yeah That's exactly right. We had one employee, Kalia, who was our first employee who worked behind the bar, helped us out behind the bar. and But really, we were able to go for to zero money outlay overnight. I mean, we weren't getting paid, of course, but, you know, the the way of' brewing. Exactly. exactly um
Speaker: But in hindsight, being that small was was actually, i think, a real blessing. if Like bigger, more established businesses with more people with a bigger footprint.
Speaker: just all becomes a lot harder to shut down and then fire up again. Yeah. And then how did you sort of adapt or evolve through that period? And did it help you then you know once you once things changed, had you sort learned lessons along the way to be made be better prepared to come out the other side of it?
Speaker: Yeah. so I think how we adapted was probably um how a lot of people adapted. we Like locals were brilliant. They they supported us because we, if you remember, you were still allowed to go and get a growler from yeah from your local brewery. So we actually teamed up with a pia the pizza truck that had been doing pizzas. And so every Friday he'd come.
Speaker: And we'd have a queue, a very separated queue for a long way out the brewery gate that were coming to pick up pizzas and growlers. So, you know, the local community really got behind us and we were able to shift a lot of the beer that we'd been diligently trying to increase until until lockdown. um But yeah, like i was i I did the homeschooling and then my wife was allied health. So she'd come home from work and then we'd literally cross paths and I'd go into the brewery and fill growlers and serve customers. and um
Speaker: So we adapted just by. Strange times. You just adapt as best you can. We also obviously put, um it accelerated the canning side of our business markedly because we had no ambition to do cans at all.
Speaker: At least for the first 12 months, we thought. Because you've got a pretty big community around there. i know I know it swells in holiday season, but it's actually a pretty established community around on that part of the South Coast anyway, isn't it? Yeah, it's reasonably large. You probably would have felt, you know, if we can just nail our locality, we don't need to be sending beer too much. for Well, that's exactly right. And we just thought,
Speaker: Just get good at what you're doing and then we can add cans in later on if we want to. and Within 12 months. And then we're like, okay, we're doing cans now. so you know we got East Coast in to do a lot of our canning from kegs. um But then, of course, when when the lockdown's ended, you're you're sort of um you're thinking is like, okay, well,
Speaker: If tap rooms are a risky thing, what what do we need to do to diversify the business? Um, so we did, it accelerated us going into wholesale basically and, um,
Speaker: Now, obviously with hindsight, probably have waited it out because wholesale is hard. harder Get a second tap room. But you do have a bit of a presence around. It's like, I feel like I do spot your beers occasionally in Melbourne. Like like you do um have some good relationships out there, obviously, and people interested in your beer in other parts. Yeah, oh absolutely. um Sales team do a fantastic job.
Speaker: And yeah, we've grown pretty steadily. um we We're not national by any means. We've no real ambitions to be either because shipping beer around the country is an absolute killer. his is Not getting easy. No, no, exactly. um So yeah, like rich and people must be tearing their hair out. Bent back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't even know how you do that logistically these days, but so we've got a really good presence in obviously New South Wales, ACT, a little bit in Victoria, little bit in Queensland. So, you know, between the taproom and gradual wholesale growth, we're pretty happy with where we're at all things considered. And what's the approach to beer? So what's the one we have in our glass here? You brought a few cans along with Yeah, yeah, brought few cans. So this is our 11 Days Pale Ale. So this is like one of our core range. Another, that's mid-strength that we've got going. Hazy Pale. And then the two big cans are special releases. So Crush IPA and Pina Colada. Crush IPA and Pina Colada.
Speaker: Yeah, for the for the fruit lovers. Yeah, yeah. Part of your daily selling. And do you have a particular, is there a brewing ethos there or is it just, a you know, Yes, absolutely. So we started out very much um approachability approachability was important because we are a regional brewery. We're not Marrickville.
Speaker: and We're not the Melbourne ap equivalent of Marrickville. that i could be moneypo yeah brown collingwood potentially yeah yeah Yeah, we're not
Speaker: We realized that we our customer base is probably not quite ready for crush IPAs every lunchtime. So we started out very much with an approachability mindset.
Speaker: So a lot of our core range um is reasonably approachable. it It's kind of adapted along the way, I would say, to be little more crafty. I think as people's tastes change and craft beer becomes more sort of recognized. and We also get a big influx of people from west of the sandstone curtain from places like where we are now in summertime. So you have to have something for those people and they're not going to want a pina colada IPA. So so the 11 days, and really good seller in the tap room for us. Biggest seller in Cannes as well. I think...
Speaker: Even when you're buying cans, a lot of people want they're going to a barbecue. They want to drink. Well, it's fruity. It's hot forward, but it's actually still pretty light and crisp. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's pretty pretty drinkable beer. and but what's What's your favorite of of of the lineup? Actually, i'm I mean, probably showing a bit of my age now, but I'm drinking a lot of the mid strength these days.
Speaker: I'm really proud of that mid strength. It has literally taken me years to get us a mid strength that I'm happy with. And this has a really It's a really good balance. It's nice and hoppy. It's got Nelson and Ty Hecky in there in the in the Whirlpool and the dry hop. But it's got a really nice body in it to sort of disguise the fact that it's a mid strength. The alcohol flavor that you're losing is kind of compensated. So, so yeah, are very proud of that one. And and then maybe it's probably a couple of years ago now, we decided we diversified into the special releases.
Speaker: and for a sales thing, but also just to keep it interesting from the brewing perspective, you know, it's it's nice to do new things and- Keep the team engaged as well. Yeah, exactly right. Why did you switch to the 500 mil cans for the limited? Because that's a fairly recent thing as well, isn't it? The big, big cans? We've been doing that for a couple of years. um Basically because you're essentially, from a customer's perspective, you're asking them to pay a higher price. They're bigger IPAs. So um they're often sold. Well, yeah, that's right. And they're often sold in singles rather than four packs. So...
Speaker: people will buy a big half liter can. It's not a million miles off a bottle of wine. You know what I mean? So it's instead of buying a four pack, which costs maybe of those things, somewhere between 40 and 60 bucks, and people tend to buy singles. So the half liter cans work pretty well in that regard.
Speaker: When you say you were ah tweaking the midi for a while, what what we sort of doing there? Was it about the mouth fill? Oh, tweaking the recipe, you mean? yeah Oh, the mid strength. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, mouth feel, big part of it. and Just hop expression.
Speaker: um Yeah, just drinkability, really. um Yes, it's it's definitely in a better place now. i always find them very thin watery. And um yeah, it took me many iterations. Maybe it was also because I didn't care as much. i was like Now it's your beer you want to drink. It's got to be perfect. I was like, mid-strength, really?
Speaker: What's wrong with you? Do we have to do that? i went well ask like No, we need one on the menu. like Do we though? and Have you found it's a learning on the jobs? You know you know you came in as as the yeah the launch brewer for the brewery, having been a home brewer, I'm assuming, you know, put in some training or have you? me Or have you just learned on the job and just just got better and better over time? and So largely learned on the job. It's super stressful, I would say at the start, like you learn really quickly that first few brews on the big system from homebrew. It's like, I hate your hair immediately changes. can't drink all of this if it goes wrong. yeah Yeah, that's exactly right. Like shit. And then of course, like the whole success of your new business is essentially
Speaker: built upon what you're making. If customers don't come in, enjoy your beer and then say, oh, we're going to go back again. It was good enough to bring them back. Then you're in a bit of trouble. So that area was stressful. We went through brewteak for our system.
Speaker: And so I was able to get Neil down to just do a couple of brews and. He's taught a lot of people how to brew beer. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In Neil's own inimical way. and So that was very, very useful. And then.
Speaker: Look, we're always, always looking for improvement. So i I don't think you can ever learn enough. So, for example, um couple of years ago, we decided we wanted to beer health check, like almost like an audit, external audit, because it's okay. You can you can taste your own beer and say, yeah, I like it. And tap room's going well.
Speaker: ever Seems that everyone likes it, but I always want more, like i always want more opinions. So we actually got involved with Hendo, who's here today. um and I ended up learning a lot through Hendo's Rockstar Brewer thing. And we've actually put a couple of brewers through the Beer Quality Bootcamp and it's enabled us to standardize processes and actually document those processes. Because one of the risks when you start your own brewery is because I was the brewer. make up your own way. And and and it's all in your head.
Speaker: So you're that's fine if you're in there every day and you can. Our first brewer, Jimmy, when he came in, he came from Young Henry's and he must have. I look back on it and go, poor Jimmy. He must have. Who is this idiot? Yeah, he must have found it. homespun ways. Yeah, he must have found it so difficult. I had nothing written down. I didn't have a whiteboard for daily tasks because I just knew what was in every tank and what needed to be done. And and um Now I look back and I go, it's crazy, crazy way to rock run a manufacturing site. So now we're much better. We've a um lot of processes documented, SOPs, things like that. So so that constant growth um and a beer quality is one element of that, but but business management obviously is another and how you actually
Speaker: and you know, how you treat your staff and enable them to thrive as well. It's so the huge amount of learning as we've, as we've gone through the last few years. Wonderful. Well, we'll take a quick break and be right back. Cheers.
Speaker: Hey Legends, Stomping Ground Brewing Co. is turning 10 and turning it on with a massive laneway style street party on Saturday 14th of November. And you're invited!
Speaker: From their Collingwood home, they're taking over Islington Street with an awesome music line-up presented by Triple R. Live music, DJs, street mural painting, food trucks, oysters, free tattoos, circus, drag queens, street side tinny bars, gin cocktails and more.
Speaker: Stompo Street Fest is going to be an epic day out celebrating 10 years of great beer, good people and the incredible community they're part of. Tickets are just $39 or free for under 12s and selling fast. Don't miss Stompo Street Fest on Saturday 14th of November.
Speaker: Check it all out at stompingground.beer. Welcome back. We're recording this conversation at Grainstock and actually in the Lallemand podcast studio. So thanks to those guys for putting this on. But ah Osh, you're here, obviously. ah you were were talking before, you were shattered to miss the first Grainstock. You had a very good excuse of why you did, but why does it matter to you to be here and sort of work the work you do with Voyager as well?
Speaker: Yeah. so We actually go back such a long way with Stu and on Brad, because unbeknownst to most people, there's another guy. you so we We were amazed when he agreed to come on the the podcast. cast we Who, Brad? Yeah. but for About a year or so ago. yeah We came up and he came on the show and he didn't say that much, but couple of things he said were like the best things that were said on the whole the whole thing. Stu know he was coming on though? No, I think Stu forced him on. we Yeah. Oh, he didn't tell him what he was getting, going to do. He's like, you just got to be somewhere at 10am. He probably contributed about 2%, but it was a great 2%. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Brad's great value. and But no we've we've been working with Voyager since before we even opened. So we talked a little bit in the first half about how we all met up and talked about values.
Speaker: so Obviously one of the things that I had to do as, as the new brewer was figure out where we're going to get all the ingredients and supplies. So I actually went out looking for a grain supplier that was value aligned and Voyager popped up really quickly. And i was like that is amazing. And I mentioned as well about my wife being from the Riverina.
Speaker: It turns out that Stu and Brad and her are from the same Shire, which is Narandra Shire. So I was just like, oh, this coincidence is not only are they value aligned in regards how they ah some of their energy generation, which is very novel about the bio burning walnut shells and things like that. but um But they are from the same places where my my wife and my wife's family are. And there's not too many people living in the shi. In Miranda Shire. They're pretty sparse. That's exactly right. so theyre're They're not related? Well, maybe.
Speaker: Not that they've told me. But um so it was like, oh, this is way too good to be true. So so we've been working with Voyager since... um before we opened and the relationship, I think, has got stronger over time. and We're very proud to work with Voyager. I'm really proud. my My Australian family are grain growers themselves, so they're over close to Narendra and they grow barley, wheat,
Speaker: So to be able to, you know, so grain is our biggest input into beer by a long way besides water, of course. um But to be able to support sort of local Riverina grain growers really important to us. And it's also brilliant from environmental perspective because it's the fewest carbon miles that we can possibly get from um a ton of grain. So, you know, we order...
Speaker: Roughly 50 odd tons off stew and rad every year. So minimizing minimizing those miles really important. And do you try and get that story and that message across to your consumers as well? We do. Do you think they care as well on top of that? Well, ah that's an excellent question. So 10% care because 10 to 13%, that's the Greens vote essentially. And and they will always care. and So there's always a core of the community will care.
Speaker: um There's probably a probably more than that that will care but not care enough to make a purchasing decision on it. And then there's most people who just buy on price, essentially. so Just shut up and give me a beer. Yeah, well, that's, yeah, yeah. Well, they probably like the fact that it's from, in fact, they do like the fact that it's from you know, uh, the Riverina, New South Wales, um, supporting farmers that are as local as possible, essentially to us in terms of grain growing. Um, they do like that, but whether people like that enough to actually pay more for it is a, definitely, um, an open question. I feel there's a hardcore, especially these days where price
Speaker: Everyone's under pressure, cost of living. like It's very difficult to convince people to pay more for um a more sustainable choice or a more socially conscious choice. Yeah. And on that, I mean, ah you've been B Corp certified for, is it two years now or was it last year? Yeah, it was. No, we're coming up to, we'll recertify next year. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So which is, I've already started preparing for that, but yes, i'm super proud of that. Yeah. um That was also something we sat down and thought we'd really like to get to. Was that from the start? like this is something we should strive towards? Yes, it was. did you look at like Stone and Wood, or would they have been certified at that point? or you know I think Stone and Wood were. Four Pines maybe. Yeah, Four Pines I reckon were the first, weren't they? Yeah, they were. Yeah. yeah
Speaker: um So, yeah, we we certainly did look at that from the start and said, this is where we want to get to, which is probably how we managed to get to it. in It wasn't quick. Because you're thinking from the start. you didn't you know And you're collecting data. haven't gone too far down the line and go, oh, shoot, we need to pull all these things back. Yeah. And collecting data yeah because you've got to demonstrate it. And that's the nice thing about B Corp.
Speaker: It is you've got to walk the walk. So you've got to show them data. And therefore that's reassuring for people that care because it's a third party certification. It's not just us saying we care. It's an independent certifier that require us to demonstrate that we're doing what they what they need. It's also reassuring to hear someone say data and not data. You know, we're, we're, we're, we're allies in this country normally, but I'm outnumbered in this room. Yeah, you're saying it wrong, Will. And, um you know, is there anything particularly special you're doing in the brewery in terms of sustainability or is it just solar panels and a key? Well, the big thing big thing about B Corp, you've gone straight to sustainability and that's where I would have gone to as well. But it's actually a lot more than that. There's four pillars to B Corp. So there's sustainability.
Speaker: There's also really boring pillar of governance. and There's community and there is workers. So there's those. Good thing you started writing things sit down as well, recipes and things like that to have a system for that governance. Yeah. Oh, well.
Speaker: Governance, yes, there's a recipe part of governance, but there's the boring bit about constitution. So we actually, the fundamental change you have to make to be even eligible for B Corp is you have to have a purpose statement and a stakeholder clause inserted into your constitution. And your purpose statement has to say that you exist for more than money that you will. And then the stakeholder clause binds the directors into making sure that any decision they make considers the impact of that decision on workers and the environment and the local community, as well as the bottom line. So that's your that's your cost of entry kind of thing. So we're now legally required to consider those elements in any business decision, which is great. That's how we like it.
Speaker: I reckon someone should speak to the B Corp people and say, Brewers should get instant waiver on the, you need to exist for more than money. Because that goes where I say that. That's a good point. wonder could be lobby. Yeah. And in terms of like, I guess on the sustainability side of it though, know, what practices you particularly happy that you put into place? Some would have been there from the start, but I don't know you've increased the processes and the measures over time. And are there any of those that you wish other brewers were using or you can't understand why they're not, you know?
Speaker: Yeah, look, I mean, Will mentioned solar and generating your own power. that' That's absolutely massive. And we went there actually during COVID is when we actually thought, right, now is the time to start looking into that. So when we reopen, we can get some panels on the roof and we can get a little bit more sustainable. And of course, that helps your energy costs pretty massively as well. um We also, so we do do a lot of solar. We're actually, we've just done load more solar and we're about to um install Frigid Clouds software. So you would have seen them down at the High Country Hub. Yeah. So we've been working with JASA
Speaker: ah probably longer than he would like now. Probably would you just bloody bite the bullet and get this thing installed already. lot of phone calls. I think this is a tech way, so IT based way of managing your the cooling. Chilling. yeah yeah Yeah, exactly right. So chilling is your biggest energy use as a brewery. and It's also the real wicked problem because a lot of it happens at night.
Speaker: So your if you look at your um your graph of energy use, it just, goes like that, the whole it for those that are listening. Oscillates. Yeah, oscillates. Thanks very much. hi Couple more IPAs. Oscillating. So it's hard to deal with. But theridgeic cloud the benefit of the Frigid Cloud software is that it loads that chilling onto the times when you're generating the most power. And you can use your glycol um bank. You can super chill that when you've got most solar and then pulse cool overnight.
Speaker: um So you might accept a couple degree rise overnight and then starts cooling again when the... um when the sun comes up. I think, you know, I was chatting somewhere on ah maybe on the bus yesterday. There's been so many of these amazing innovations and whether it's new programs, technology, have come along in the last, probably, you know, probably come to market in the last few years because people, you know, started exploring it when craft beer or craft ceiling, whatever it might be, was like really exploding. It's like,
Speaker: oh, I can make this thing better. And you know this is this is this booming industry. I'm going to develop this new technology. It's going to be save people time, money. It's going to be so much better environment, whatever it might be. And they've all come to fruition in the last three or four years when brewers are going...
Speaker: I really love it. I need to be able to pay my past half. You know what I mean? so be chris so that's probably why you had in the conversation for longer. But I i guess the the argument they would have is that oh if you do bite the bullet, you know, yes, there might be an investment front, but you're going to be doing something better for the environment, better your business, and you're going to save money down the line. I guess that's how you, the the discussion you'll be having with your directors. Oh, absolutely. Look, there are,
Speaker: it It will be an instant energy saving. So yes, there's the upfront cost, which will take a bit of time. Um, but, and, and there's a monthly subscription, but it will bring energy bills down because you're using less energy at the time when you're having to pay for it. So, so over the longterm, you will most definitely save money on that.
Speaker: Um, But yes, you're absolutely right. It's similar with solar, you know, everyone knows it'll save you money, but are you goingnna pay you're going to pay? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what about the, uh, South coast itself? You know looking from afar, it's a pretty happening place for small breweries. Yeah, it is. It's great. They're everywhere. You'll do you sort of catch up? are you trying to do your inner Westdale trail sort of, you know, battle bit harder? A little harder. If you if you were, if you're going cycle between breweries, you could easily do it between us and the Flaming Galat. You can fall out the door and you're in the next one. But even even even down to Damo would be a fair cycle in in Milton to Dangerous Ales. But no, we do. We've we've got a really good relationship.
Speaker: um So we just did a collab on Friday, actually, with Seeker up in Wollongong. I think they must have collaborated with about 95% of the Australian brewing industry. Jeff and Curtis love collaboration. They do collaborate, as you know. So, yeah, they're brilliant at collabs. Way better than I am. We hardly do any collabs. So it was great. You have to be dragged. Come on, mate. Just talk to someone else. Get out there and talk to people.
Speaker: No, but... Great relationship. So obviously um there's Damien just down the road. There's Browley lads who are here as well. hatset Yeah, yeah, I heard that. um I noted they were on before me, but no no no offense. You should be going north, south. We tried to get You know we tried to very narrow yeah yeah you you did cancel us last year. That's true. Sorry, I take it back. But no, they're great lads. and We've had a longstanding relationship with them. And then ah where we further on down, we've got
Speaker: Obviously, Malt Man, we've got Big Niles. And you can make it all the way down almost to the border with long stocking as well. and there yeah absolutely. because well yeah And then we've got Breakwall as well in the Rumour. So Joe, who's now the head brewer of Breakwall, was a brewer with us. So that's a lovely story for us as well. That's exactly what we want. We want people that come and work with us to leave us.
Speaker: with more skills than when they came in and and get at at better jobs if they move on at all. and Are you finding that that you know the existence of so many breweries along the South Coast has become a bit of a pool, you know an additional tourism pool to the region? Or is it more that people just get there and go oh, hang on, there's brewery. you know Yeah, look, I probably don't have the data to quantify how many would come to us then move on and like, or how many are coming to the region to know that breweries. Shoalhaven Council, which is our council, tell us absolutely that people are coming to visit us and and visit breweries and wineries. So, so yeah, i've I imagine there would that growing number of breweries would definitely be...
Speaker: a draw card for the South Coast. I mean, if you look at, I don't know how you feel, but personally, I'm like, what the hell did I do on holidays before there were breweries? So I think, I think definitely people coming to the South Coast are pretty spoiled for choice now, no matter where you go. You're spoiled for choice, whatever you do on the South Coast, to be honest. Well, that is true. It's pretty, pretty special. Yeah. And they're all good quality. That's the other thing. Yeah. Like,
Speaker: They're everyone's doing good beer and very different stuff as well. Very different vibe. Yeah, that's right. yeah Yeah. You can get lots of different vibes in terms of tap rooms and and and beer styles and that sort of stuff. So Rube Goldberg boys are here as well. And obviously they're am Often, I know they do diversity like we do, but lots lots of laggers and things. so So, yeah, there's really something for everyone. It's it's fantastic. And looking ahead, what's next for for Jervis? but if if you If you can choose to make something happen, what's it going to be?
Speaker: Oh, look, I think for us, it's quite boring. It's like, I think Topher's talk today was about business sustainability. And i think that's where it's at for us. So we obviously took on some debt to expand.
Speaker: Obviously, um our debt is decreasing over time, which is fantastic. And we're really proud of the fact we've, you know, never done the VA thing and defaulted on our tax obligations, et cetera. So, so I think being a really good business is we we've got better at that and we want to continue, ah learning, being a better business, managing all of that stuff. Um,
Speaker: we We think we've got a pretty good recipe now in terms of, you know, the seasonal releases, the special releases. So we'll obviously keep keep doing all that. mean. i mean I'd love to open another tap room, but so tap room. So we'll see where that goes. But um but for the moment, I think we're we're so we're growing. It's just, you know, the era, like that malt girl said earlier, the era of like really rapid growth and easy growth is is over.
Speaker: and So it's just about knuckling down, continuing to be better in terms of quality of beer, but also a better business and a better employer. Osh, thank you so much for joining us from Jarvis Bay Brewing.
Speaker: Where's that? Cheers, mate. Cheers, mate. The
Speaker: Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by me, Matt Hoffman. For all partnership inquiries, please reach out to Craig Williams at craig at craftypint.com. To keep up to date with everything in Australian craft beer, head to www.craftypint.com.
