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Episode 5: Pinball Tournaments with Dan Newman
59 Plays7 years ago
In this episode we sit down with Dan Newman to get an idea of what it takes to start a pinball league and get tournaments going!
If you want to join us at the Salt Lake Gaming Con or just want more info, check out https://saltlakegamingcon.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Dan Newman
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
I am Josh Roop here with my co-captain, Scott Larson.
00:00:12
Speaker
Howdy ho.
00:00:13
Speaker
And we are bringing you episode number five.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're going to talk about some tournaments today, and we brought the man with the plan, Mr. Dan Newman.
00:00:21
Speaker
How are you doing today, Dan?
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm doing great.
00:00:23
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
00:00:25
Speaker
You're welcome.
00:00:25
Speaker
Well, we appreciate you coming on.
00:00:27
Speaker
We wanted to talk some tournaments, and we know you're the guy around here that has pretty much started the tournament scene and got it up and going.
Dan Newman's Pinball Journey
00:00:35
Speaker
But before we get into that, I kind of want to know what got you into pinball.
00:00:39
Speaker
Well, I've been playing pinball for a long time, so I don't know.
00:00:44
Speaker
My family would always take us bowling, and they were league bowlers, and we'd always play pinball while they –
00:00:51
Speaker
while the menfolk were bowling.
00:00:55
Speaker
And then played a lot of pinball in my teenage years as well.
00:01:01
Speaker
Then my family opened a laser tag place.
00:01:03
Speaker
We had pinball there.
00:01:05
Speaker
Played a lot of pinball.
00:01:08
Speaker
And then kind of reconnected to pinball when I got into kind of arcade collecting and pinball machines.
00:01:18
Speaker
And then realized that Salt Lake had no competitive pinball scene to speak of.
00:01:26
Speaker
So I really wanted to play tournaments.
00:01:29
Speaker
I didn't necessarily want to throw tournaments or organize a pinball scene, but I just wanted to play in one.
00:01:39
Speaker
Okay, so when did you actually decide, I want to be social and play and organize this?
00:01:45
Speaker
It sounds like you've been in pinball for such a long time, but when did you say, okay, I'm going to take it to the next level and actually start contacting different people and figuring out what to do?
Founding of the SLAP Group
00:01:55
Speaker
So back when we started the SLAP group, which is the Salt Lake area pinballers, um,
00:02:02
Speaker
And I say we, cause you know, I, I, it's, it takes a bunch of people, you know, so I, there's nothing I did alone.
00:02:10
Speaker
Uh, cause it was about organizing a community.
00:02:13
Speaker
Sure.
00:02:16
Speaker
The real we exactly.
00:02:17
Speaker
And, and, uh,
00:02:19
Speaker
I was on Pennside and Jeff Rivera, who does the Pinball Podcast, and I eventually learned Eric.
00:02:32
Speaker
No, no.
00:02:34
Speaker
Another Eric Schaefer would – did a –
00:02:40
Speaker
What's that charity that puts pinball machines in hospitals?
00:02:45
Speaker
Project Pinball?
00:02:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:49
Speaker
They did a fundraiser for Project Pinball.
00:02:52
Speaker
And I just – it was a weird thing I happened to see the day before –
00:02:56
Speaker
that this tournament was going on in Utah.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so I got my buddy, Josh Craig, who is my partner in crime with the pinball organization now, and our other buddy, Jason, and we all three went up there and there were about, I don't know, 10 of us.
00:03:12
Speaker
And it was probably...
00:03:14
Speaker
the first pinball tournament in ever in Utah.
00:03:18
Speaker
I mean, it was, it, it was, I don't think Jeff had done another one.
00:03:24
Speaker
That was the, that was the first one.
00:03:27
Speaker
And it was certainly in the modern era.
00:03:29
Speaker
Sure, sure.
00:03:31
Speaker
As far as I know, it was, I don't know of any other pinball tournaments ever in Utah.
00:03:38
Speaker
I have a flyer downstairs that I got that has a pinball, advertising for a pinball tournament in 1982, but that's just random.
00:03:47
Speaker
I'm sorry I missed that one.
00:03:50
Speaker
Well, we were seven, so.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:53
Speaker
I wasn't even born yet, so I think I have a good excuse.
00:03:56
Speaker
I was nine.
00:03:57
Speaker
There's no excuse.
Building the SLAP League Community
00:04:03
Speaker
So anyway, we had a blast.
00:04:04
Speaker
And I always wanted to do a pinball league.
00:04:08
Speaker
And so I just started collecting names.
00:04:14
Speaker
I wanted to get up to 16 people.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I mean, it took about a year to,
00:04:20
Speaker
of asking people one at a time, are you in, are you in, are you in?
00:04:24
Speaker
And we started the very first, uh, slap league, um, which we were just getting ready to, we're just going on season four now.
00:04:32
Speaker
So it was about three years ago.
00:04:35
Speaker
And some of the people that joined thought they were joining a drinking league, uh, where people just sometimes play pinball, but, uh, we, we eventually, uh, found the real true pinball players and, and, uh,
00:04:49
Speaker
We've had turnover to find the right exact people, but now we have people that are super into pinball, which I think is great.
00:04:57
Speaker
Is that what made you decide to do all this tournament stuff?
00:05:00
Speaker
You just wanted to see a scene here in Salt Lake?
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to see it.
00:05:04
Speaker
And we played that first season of the league, and that was great.
00:05:08
Speaker
And then we wanted to kind of keep the momentum, not let it die.
00:05:12
Speaker
So we started doing kind of monthly tournaments.
00:05:16
Speaker
That was the Slap Ass series, the Salt Lake Area Pinballers Awesome Summer Series.
00:05:22
Speaker
Slap Ass for short.
00:05:24
Speaker
Very nice.
00:05:25
Speaker
I think that's when I got involved.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's what Scott, and we've just kind of collected people that are like-minded people that are interested in pinball and kind of grown, and we have close to 200 people that have joined us or are in our private Facebook group or have come out to our events, so it's been fun.
00:05:49
Speaker
What were the amount of people that were showing up to the first tournaments when you started getting it going?
00:05:55
Speaker
We were in that 20-ish range, 16 to 20.
00:05:59
Speaker
I mean, it was the league members and their wives.
00:06:05
Speaker
And, you know, we've had to collect people.
00:06:09
Speaker
And we try to, you know, we really, each event, you know, has between 20 and 30 people.
00:06:15
Speaker
The numbers haven't changed all that much.
00:06:20
Speaker
You know, not everybody can make every event.
00:06:23
Speaker
So we have...
00:06:25
Speaker
a lot of different people making them and we do a lot of different events now.
00:06:29
Speaker
I mean, we're doing, uh, we probably did 20, 25, uh, different, different things last year.
00:06:36
Speaker
So, which is, which is kind of a lot.
Challenges and Advice for Organizers
00:06:40
Speaker
So now Dan, when you were starting, was this more of a, like a home league?
00:06:46
Speaker
Cause you,
00:06:47
Speaker
really until recently, there really hasn't been a lot of great location pinball in Utah.
00:06:52
Speaker
There's been a few holdouts here and there, but not really a lot of places to say yes.
00:06:58
Speaker
They have great, well-maintained machines that can actually handle a higher level of player as opposed to the broken flipper and the slingshot that's not working.
00:07:13
Speaker
We have certainly played on a lot of broken machines.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:17
Speaker
So that's kind of just the first year we played at Twist.
00:07:23
Speaker
We played at Campfire Lounge.
00:07:25
Speaker
We played at Nickel Mania.
00:07:27
Speaker
We played at a few home collections.
00:07:32
Speaker
And there's a lot of great home collections out there.
00:07:35
Speaker
And I think that first league we only did like
00:07:44
Speaker
10 weeks I think was total.
00:07:47
Speaker
Um, and we may have even played at the same location, like Nickel Mania a couple of times or something.
00:07:54
Speaker
Um, but we kind of alternated between private and public locations.
00:07:59
Speaker
I think we played five private and five public.
00:08:02
Speaker
So I assume it was pretty intimidating starting this all up.
00:08:05
Speaker
Um, what would some of your advice be to those that who want to start up their own tournaments?
00:08:11
Speaker
Um, well, I mean, I,
00:08:13
Speaker
there's two, I don't think necessary rep.
00:08:17
Speaker
I, I sure did stuff the hardest way possible.
00:08:20
Speaker
Um, without a doubt.
00:08:23
Speaker
Uh, I didn't, I had never played a pinball tournament.
00:08:25
Speaker
I had never, uh, other than that one, uh, with Jeff, you know, I'd never gone out of state and played in one or, or really seen one or knew how one, how they were supposed to run.
00:08:35
Speaker
Uh, that was done a simple like double strike tournament or triple strike tournament, I believe.
00:08:41
Speaker
Um,
00:08:43
Speaker
So I didn't know what the heck I was doing.
00:08:45
Speaker
When we made our league format, it was a format that no one had ever done before.
00:08:56
Speaker
Uh, apparently cause we didn't know what we were doing.
00:08:58
Speaker
We just came up, you know, I come from a bowling background, so I did it like a bowling league, uh, where you have mandatory attendance.
00:09:08
Speaker
Uh, we did some weird things where we played best two games, uh, you know, a match would be two games, but you would not only get a point for each game, but then you'd add up the total, uh,
00:09:21
Speaker
the total points from the two games, you get an extra point for the series.
00:09:25
Speaker
Um, and so that's kind of our league format.
00:09:27
Speaker
And, uh, uh, uh, Joe, um, uh, shawble, shawble, uh, is the, uh, free state pinball association guy.
00:09:40
Speaker
And he's been, he's been awesome to work with, with the IFPA and, and, uh, papa.org.
00:09:46
Speaker
Um,
00:09:47
Speaker
They made software for us and were kind enough to make a custom rule set just for our league, which I'm sure took a lot of time.
00:09:59
Speaker
And it's great software and we
Impact of Online Communities
00:10:01
Speaker
just love it.
00:10:01
Speaker
So anyway, I would definitely contact them.
00:10:07
Speaker
They've been nothing but kind and accepting and helped pull me from knowing nothing to knowing nothing.
00:10:17
Speaker
a little more than nothing.
00:10:20
Speaker
Barely.
00:10:21
Speaker
So, but I, go ahead.
00:10:25
Speaker
I was just going to say, hopefully where everybody else is starting, there's some form of pinball league or competition, but there wasn't really in Utah when we got going.
00:10:40
Speaker
And so I just collected emails and names.
00:10:43
Speaker
So that's my best suggestion is get emails.
00:10:47
Speaker
You can...
00:10:48
Speaker
do a big group email, invite people, you know, find a home base you want to play out of and play, you know, just, you know, make friends.
00:10:58
Speaker
I think it seems like nowadays, as opposed to even five years ago, there seems to be a lot more of an online community that's developed in giving advice about how to either do like a mega league or a home league, or there's a lot of these basement league that's go around where if you have six people or five people, you can do that.
00:11:21
Speaker
And actually you can customize it depending on your situation.
00:11:25
Speaker
Even if you have just a few guys who have a few games, you could still get something going on a reasonable level that I think is different than it was even five, ten years ago without the online community.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would totally agree with that.
00:11:40
Speaker
I mean, the internet is a very valuable resource.
00:11:46
Speaker
And the information was available.
00:11:47
Speaker
I wish I could say I used that, but no, I came up with crazy rules for tournaments and leagues.
00:11:57
Speaker
And now that I travel around and see kind of the formats that everybody pretty much uses, I've kind of stolen some of those because, hey, they're good.
00:12:05
Speaker
Who would have thought they had experience and
00:12:08
Speaker
And had already gone through these trial and error processes, you know, decades ago.
00:12:15
Speaker
Well, so going through that, you talk about all the challenge, like some of the things that you, you know, you kind of blaze your own path.
00:12:24
Speaker
Looking back and say you were able to contact Dan five years ago, what are three pieces of advice that you would say, hey, you should do it this way or you should use this resource?
00:12:36
Speaker
I would say buy more machines five years ago.
00:12:38
Speaker
That would have been my number one thing because, as we all know, they got expensive fast.
00:12:49
Speaker
But I would have probably told myself don't reinvent the wheel.
00:12:56
Speaker
As far as collecting the seam together, I don't know if there's any other way than –
00:13:01
Speaker
just how we did it.
00:13:02
Speaker
I mean, some of our core members, uh, the guys that put in the most time, we just randomly found out as a group playing and said, Hey, are you into pinball?
00:13:13
Speaker
We're into pinball.
00:13:15
Speaker
Come play with us, you know?
00:13:16
Speaker
And, uh, and I don't, I don't know.
00:13:19
Speaker
The group kind of behaves more like a family, I think.
00:13:22
Speaker
Uh,
00:13:23
Speaker
I mean, we all travel together now.
00:13:25
Speaker
Dysfunctional and drinking heavily.
00:13:29
Speaker
Exactly.
00:13:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:13:33
Speaker
Well, and the other question I had too, was the IFPA even around back then when you guys started up?
00:13:37
Speaker
Did they have, cause I know that they've got some, some rules and stuff that they can help you with.
00:13:41
Speaker
There are some game formats, but was that a resource you guys used back then?
00:13:46
Speaker
You know, I certainly read all the rules and, and took the stuff that I thought applied to the first league.
00:13:53
Speaker
Um, and that's kind of the rule set we've used for tournaments and whatnot since then.
00:14:01
Speaker
and yeah, they were definitely around.
00:14:02
Speaker
I mean, the IFPA, those guys are saints, uh, the amount of work they do to, to keep the steam going in the country and in the world for no money for free, uh, all this time, the, the, the sharps are a God's end to pinball.
00:14:21
Speaker
And, uh, you know, I know there was a lot of, uh, hubbub about the dollar, dollar ahead per tournament.
00:14:30
Speaker
you know, that they started a year or two ago, a year ago, I guess.
00:14:35
Speaker
But I think they have every right to do that.
00:14:37
Speaker
And if they ask for a dollar a head just to go into their own pockets, I'd be for it.
00:14:42
Speaker
But no, they put it all back in and still work like slaves for free.
00:14:47
Speaker
So anyway, I always give it up to the Sharp brothers and, you know, of course, their dad, Roger Sharp.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, I would completely agree with that.
00:15:00
Speaker
I think that certainly we all know about the shot that saved pinball with Roger, but...
00:15:08
Speaker
Everything that his sons have done, Josh and Zach, it's been amazing finding out how much work they actually do just because they feel invested in it.
00:15:19
Speaker
I can't imagine that.
00:15:21
Speaker
And sadly, they probably get a lot more flack than they get gratitude.
00:15:27
Speaker
But think of everything that Josh has done just in.
00:15:31
Speaker
in addition to his full-time job, which isn't even related to pinball, for him to keep the scene going, it really has started developing the second renaissance in pinball that we had the glory years of the 90s.
00:15:46
Speaker
But then I think that their efforts have directly impacted over the last 10 years this revival of pinball that really it's reached levels that
00:15:59
Speaker
weren't previously felt past the seventies.
00:16:02
Speaker
Really?
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:03
Speaker
I a hundred percent agree.
00:16:04
Speaker
Uh, I think competitive pinball, uh, I don't know if it'd be around, uh, if it wasn't for, for the Sharp brothers.
00:16:12
Speaker
Um, and I, I, I know how much work, you know, uh, Josh Craig and myself have done putting tournaments together just in one place.
00:16:23
Speaker
And they do that all over the country and all over the world.
00:16:26
Speaker
The amount of data entry, just logistics, dealing with just drama and BS is mind boggling.
00:16:34
Speaker
And I mean, everybody that's into pinball owes them a debt of gratitude for sure.
00:16:42
Speaker
I think they have competitive pinball is healthier now than it ever was at any point in history, I think.
00:16:50
Speaker
It certainly is different now because even talking with when Keith Ellewin talked about just getting into the scene, there was like one tournament a year.
00:16:59
Speaker
And so you would play in that one tournament and then you'd just perseverate over the next year about what you messed up on.
00:17:07
Speaker
I think with the world shrinking with the interconnectivity of the web, it's allowed all these kind of niche interests to be able to
00:17:17
Speaker
share information and actually mobilize efforts in a way that wasn't available 10 years ago, really.
Salt Lake Gaming Con and Pinball Showcase
00:17:26
Speaker
And so I think that absolutely the competitive scene in the last three years is probably vastly superior and vastly over the top compared to what it was in the previous 100 years of pinball.
00:17:40
Speaker
For sure.
00:17:40
Speaker
I totally agree with that.
00:17:42
Speaker
Well, one thing I want to talk about, Dan, is you and Josh have been doing this granddaddy of a tournament.
00:17:49
Speaker
It's what I'm going to call it because it's massive and it blows my mind that you guys do this every year.
00:17:55
Speaker
But let's talk about the Salt Lake Gaming Con.
00:17:57
Speaker
That's coming up here in the end of June.
00:18:00
Speaker
And last year you had over 150 people participate in the tournament.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah, Dan, say the dates too.
00:18:08
Speaker
So if anybody's listening to it, they could think, hey, if I'm in the Utah area and I'm available, I can come and actually participate in this tournament because it's pretty mind boggling what you do.
00:18:18
Speaker
So the Salt Lake Gaming Con is June 27th, 28th, 29th.
00:18:22
Speaker
That's a Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
00:18:26
Speaker
They've expanded to three days this year versus the two days that the Gaming Con has traditionally been on.
00:18:35
Speaker
And they've moved weekends to instead of Fourth of July weekend to the week before.
00:18:41
Speaker
So that's a better weekend.
00:18:42
Speaker
And they're doing it actually at a bigger venue, although it's hard to believe it's bigger than, you know,
00:18:48
Speaker
the venues they were using because it's been massive.
00:18:52
Speaker
But they're doing it at the Salt Palace Convention Center this year in downtown Salt Lake City.
00:18:57
Speaker
So and for those that don't know about it, it's a fantastic gaming convention.
00:19:04
Speaker
There's there's they fill up, you know, 100,000 square feet, maybe 200,000 square feet.
00:19:11
Speaker
It's it's enormous.
00:19:13
Speaker
They have all sorts of things for kids to do for
00:19:18
Speaker
You know, Fortnite type gaming, Smash Brothers type gaming, you know, professional gamers come in, celebrities, you know, the live action role playing, the axe throwing, all sorts of crazy stuff.
00:19:31
Speaker
But we got involved a couple of years ago.
00:19:35
Speaker
and uh kind of uh we've kind of adopted it as uh salt lakes pinball show um it's it's a it's a way for us to uh basically there was no way to do a pinball convention in utah uh so uh the numbers just aren't here um
00:19:55
Speaker
somebody would lose a lot of money running out, uh, trying to do a pinball show in Utah.
00:20:01
Speaker
Uh, but this convention was happening and I happen to know the organizer and, and he's a good friend of mine.
00:20:06
Speaker
And, and I said, Hey, I think we could add value for each other.
00:20:11
Speaker
So, uh, we came in and crowdsourced and, uh, and, uh,
00:20:16
Speaker
just had people bring machines and we have them on free play and we do big tournaments.
00:20:20
Speaker
It's a chance to, he adds money and gives us a prize fund so we can keep them free entry.
00:20:27
Speaker
The spring league has been generous and has, as part of our league dues, we pay an extra dollar a week for
00:20:38
Speaker
It was supposed to go into the IFPA, but the IFPA changed their rules to where they only accept a dollar per head for the whole league.
00:20:47
Speaker
And so we had this extra money last year, and we put it towards paying the dollar a head for the gaming con so everybody could come.
00:20:56
Speaker
compete in a competitive pinball and we, and we still made it free for everybody.
00:21:01
Speaker
Uh, and we vote, we just took a vote last week to do the same thing and everybody agreed.
00:21:05
Speaker
And, and, uh, so we're doing it again, you know, we've got close to $200 to pay, uh, to pay everybody's, uh, IFPA fees, um, uh, for, uh,
00:21:17
Speaker
for the gaming con.
00:21:18
Speaker
So we're planning on doing a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory type theme.
00:21:25
Speaker
I think we're gonna go with Gnarly and the Pinball Factory and then have five different candy themed pinball tournaments throughout the course of the convention.
00:21:38
Speaker
What possessed you to do something of this caliber though?
00:21:40
Speaker
I mean, this show is pretty huge.
00:21:42
Speaker
I mean, I know the first year that we did it, it was, it was good, but I mean, last year it was blown out of the park.
00:21:48
Speaker
We had JJ with a game exchange of Colorado come over.
00:21:51
Speaker
He brought 10, 12 pins with him and it just, it doubled in size last year.
00:21:57
Speaker
And from the sounds of it, it's going to double again the size this year.
00:22:01
Speaker
You know, we hope so.
00:22:02
Speaker
We had, I think, 25 machines or so, 27 machines the first year.
00:22:07
Speaker
Last year we had around 50.
00:22:10
Speaker
And, you know, yourself, Josh, is being very modest.
00:22:16
Speaker
I mean, you were instrumental in contacting JJ and kind of getting the ball rolling to get him involved in the show, and that gives us –
00:22:27
Speaker
you know, he's brought a whole bunch of games.
00:22:29
Speaker
Uh, we got to play the prototype, uh, pirates of the Caribbean, which was amazing.
00:22:34
Speaker
And, uh, as well as a lot of other machines, um,
00:22:38
Speaker
And we're hoping to just get bigger and better.
00:22:40
Speaker
Uh, and I have no idea what possessed me.
00:22:43
Speaker
Um, every, every year afterwards, my back, uh, is, is mad at me for wanting to, uh, move dozens and dozens of pinball machines.
00:22:57
Speaker
Um, it makes me respect, you know, the people that do put on these large pinball shows, uh,
00:23:03
Speaker
you know, like Penberg, the, the amount of work it takes to move 500 pinball machines, uh, for a weekend and then move them back is, is insane.
00:23:16
Speaker
Uh, I, I,
00:23:18
Speaker
I know everybody that's moved just one pinball machine can shake their head and go, that's just nuts.
00:23:24
Speaker
Well, Dan, you can see how often my collection changes over, and that's because I don't want to take it down the stairs of death in my backyard.
00:23:30
Speaker
So I can only imagine how that works.
00:23:33
Speaker
I didn't know that you guys did that, that you sponsored the IFPA dollar for these sign-up
Inclusivity in Salt Lake Pinball
00:23:41
Speaker
thing.
00:23:41
Speaker
I think that's such a great thing for you guys to do.
00:23:45
Speaker
I haven't been able to participate in the league.
00:23:47
Speaker
I've hosted a few times, but I haven't been able to time-wise, I haven't been able to participate on that level.
00:23:53
Speaker
But I think that says about the inclusivity of at least the Salt Lake area and being able to reach out and say, hey, we just want people to come.
00:24:01
Speaker
And I've really appreciated the culture that we have here in that it seems like
00:24:09
Speaker
we have a very diverse crowd.
00:24:10
Speaker
We're talking like diverse politically, diverse religiously, diversity in like your typical economic status.
00:24:20
Speaker
And it's so great because every time we come, no one cares.
00:24:24
Speaker
And the only thing you want to do is just play pinball and just talk.
00:24:27
Speaker
And it feels like everybody's welcome.
00:24:30
Speaker
And I think that says a lot about how we've tried to develop the culture here and that there are no barriers.
00:24:38
Speaker
I think that does such a good thing for the growth of the community.
00:24:41
Speaker
And certainly when I came into the community four years ago, I felt completely welcomed by everybody.
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that.
00:24:49
Speaker
We've certainly had very, very few problems, you know, with people, you know, disagreements or whatnot like that, drama.
00:24:59
Speaker
And I think everybody has a lot of fun.
00:25:01
Speaker
I hope everybody does.
00:25:04
Speaker
And it's been nice.
00:25:07
Speaker
because really it takes a lot of trust to invite a bunch of semi strangers into your home.
00:25:11
Speaker
You know, I mean, I make my, my personal address known to, to the group and, and, and, uh, you know, the next tournament's actually coming up.
00:25:20
Speaker
Uh, we're going to do it on April 13th.
00:25:23
Speaker
It's going to be at my place.
00:25:24
Speaker
Um, we're going to do a,
00:25:26
Speaker
kind of a pinball poker hybrid.
00:25:30
Speaker
Mostly just pinball, but a little side thing where you get cards for certain milestones of playing.
00:25:39
Speaker
So everyone that just heard that, even you guys in Australia and in New Zealand, you're welcome to come to Dan's house April 13th.
00:25:44
Speaker
We're going to play some pinball and some poker.
00:25:48
Speaker
We're expecting head-to-head to show up.
00:25:50
Speaker
You know what, dude?
00:25:51
Speaker
Just get Marty some gin.
00:25:52
Speaker
He'll be fine.
00:25:52
Speaker
He'll show right up.
00:25:55
Speaker
Marty comes to Utah occasionally, which just seems so random.
00:25:58
Speaker
But anyway.
00:26:00
Speaker
Well, I know we're running out of time with you, Dan.
00:26:02
Speaker
I know that you've got other stuff to do.
00:26:04
Speaker
But is there anything you wanted to talk about before you head off?
00:26:09
Speaker
You know, we still got the Keto's monthly tournaments.
00:26:13
Speaker
We're still doing down at Keto's on the first Tuesday every month.
00:26:19
Speaker
You know, we always want more people to come to that because it's a fun time.
00:26:23
Speaker
The machines are all discounted.
00:26:25
Speaker
It's a cheap tournament.
00:26:26
Speaker
It's a good way to get your feet wet into tournament pinball.
00:26:32
Speaker
That's more of a head-to-head type format where we kind of play like the –
00:26:39
Speaker
The SCS is what they call it.
00:26:42
Speaker
I don't know the official name now, but basically the state championships and the national championships are coming up.
00:26:48
Speaker
But those are more heads-up formats where you get to choose gamer position, and then you play heads-up, and then the loser chooses the next gamer position.
00:26:57
Speaker
You're playing best three, best five, best seven series.
00:27:02
Speaker
And so that's fun.
00:27:05
Speaker
And, yeah, I hope people come out to GamingCon.
00:27:07
Speaker
GamingCon is –
00:27:09
Speaker
the best deal in all of conventions, all of pinball.
00:27:13
Speaker
I think a whole weekend pass for all three days costs like 30 bucks or something, 35 bucks is something super cheap.
00:27:21
Speaker
All the games are on free play.
00:27:23
Speaker
Uh, everything there is basically free.
00:27:26
Speaker
Um, they, they, they,
00:27:28
Speaker
I don't know how they even survive because it's too good of a deal.
00:27:34
Speaker
Well, even if you want to be even more cheap, don't we offer a deal to bring in pinball machines?
00:27:38
Speaker
If you bring one or two pinball machines, you get free admission or something like that.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah, we actually give two tickets per pinball machine.
00:27:50
Speaker
So if you donate a pinball machine or let a pinball machine get used at the show, you get, I think it's one or two tickets for weekend passes to Gaming Con.
00:28:02
Speaker
So yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker
So that's great as well.
00:28:06
Speaker
So anybody that's listening to this that hasn't contacted me directly, feel free to contact you, Josh, or get involved with us.
00:28:19
Speaker
We're on Facebook at Salt Lake Area Pinballers.
00:28:23
Speaker
You have to just do a search, and it's a private group, so you can ask to join.
00:28:27
Speaker
Awesome, Dan.
00:28:28
Speaker
Well, we appreciate you coming on.
00:28:29
Speaker
You're welcome to hang out if you want to, but we're going to kind of shift away from this topic.
00:28:34
Speaker
Like I said, I know that you've got other stuff to do, but if you want to join in, we've still got stuff we're going to BS about.
00:28:41
Speaker
Guys, I have to run tonight, but I hope you have me back.
00:28:44
Speaker
I'd love to just sit around and BS and talk pinball with you sometime.
00:28:48
Speaker
I think it went great.
00:28:49
Speaker
I'd be more than happy to have you back.
00:28:50
Speaker
So what about you, Scott?
00:28:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:55
Speaker
I'll be back.
00:28:56
Speaker
He was so quiet there for a second.
00:28:57
Speaker
I was like, I better check up on him.
00:28:59
Speaker
I'm always happy to, you tell me what theme you want to have next, Scott, for our next tournament.
00:29:08
Speaker
For those of you who don't know, Scott makes a mean Conan the Barbarian.
00:29:16
Speaker
I've got to find that.
00:29:16
Speaker
That's got to be the picture for this episode, man.
00:29:19
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:29:20
Speaker
No, it's awesome.
00:29:20
Speaker
I have it somewhere.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, I told him I'd host League Night if he made me look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
00:29:28
Speaker
So about an hour later, I get a picture of me photoshopped.
00:29:32
Speaker
I mean, not photoshopped, me in a photo shoot with Conan the Balbarian.
00:29:39
Speaker
It was fantastic.
00:29:41
Speaker
It was great.
00:29:42
Speaker
That's kind of been my calling card is I like puns.
00:29:46
Speaker
So I like pinball puns and acronyms.
00:29:49
Speaker
So if you couldn't tell that already.
00:29:51
Speaker
Cheesy 80s mashups.
00:29:54
Speaker
My favorite story is when Bowen came out here and he played in that tournament and he won, was it two years ago?
00:30:00
Speaker
And you hand bank the trophies.
00:30:02
Speaker
We don't buy these trophies.
00:30:03
Speaker
Dan goes out and makes all the trophies for every tournament.
00:30:07
Speaker
And I can't remember what Bone went home with, but it was a homemade trophy.
00:30:10
Speaker
He gets home and his wife's like, what is that?
00:30:12
Speaker
And he's like, it's my trophy.
00:30:14
Speaker
And she's like, that's not a trophy.
00:30:16
Speaker
What is that?
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's great.
00:30:20
Speaker
They're thrift store creations with hot glue guns.
00:30:25
Speaker
And they usually are so fantastic.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's another one of my hobbies besides puns is crafting thrift store and pinball parts and pieces into trophies.
00:30:42
Speaker
Which I think should really catch on.
00:30:44
Speaker
I think Bones' wife was just jealous because that dragon trophy was gorgeous.
00:30:51
Speaker
We can ship it back if he doesn't want it.
00:30:57
Speaker
I really wanted to win it.
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's okay, Dan.
00:31:01
Speaker
I'll make you one.
00:31:02
Speaker
Thank you.
00:31:06
Speaker
I appreciate that.
00:31:08
Speaker
All right, Dan.
00:31:08
Speaker
Well, thanks again for coming on.
00:31:10
Speaker
Get us the information.
00:31:11
Speaker
We'll link it in our post or show notes.
00:31:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:16
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:31:17
Speaker
Thanks, guys.
00:31:18
Speaker
Thanks, Dan.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:19
Speaker
See you.
00:31:20
Speaker
Well, Scott, that was an awesome little interview that we got to do there.
00:31:24
Speaker
Is there any highlights you wanted to point out?
00:31:26
Speaker
No, I dance great.
00:31:28
Speaker
Any place that has a that wants to start a scene, you need to have someone like a Dan or someone who basically
00:31:37
Speaker
is willing to do a lot of legwork and start up a league.
00:31:42
Speaker
And mainly he hosts a ton of tournaments at his house.
00:31:45
Speaker
That doesn't necessarily have to be what people do is open their house.
00:31:51
Speaker
But it is kind of nice to have a home base to develop a critical mass of people who are interested in doing those events.
00:31:58
Speaker
So certainly he has done a lot for just growing the scene in Utah.
00:32:03
Speaker
Oh, I totally agree.
00:32:04
Speaker
And honestly, that's one of the reasons I kept coming back around.
00:32:07
Speaker
Dan's just a really nice guy.
00:32:08
Speaker
And he made me feel welcome when I came to the tournament.
00:32:11
Speaker
I was really, really nervous my first time coming out because I'm driving three hours to come out to one of these tournaments and you don't know what you're going to get.
00:32:19
Speaker
And so it always, I was so, so nervous.
00:32:21
Speaker
And man, Dan just acted like I had been there the whole time and that was part of the group and
00:32:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:27
Speaker
Dan's a good guy.
00:32:28
Speaker
You definitely need, everyone needs a Dan in their tournament group.
00:32:31
Speaker
Cause if you have people like that, you're going to keep having good turnover or not turnover.
00:32:35
Speaker
You're going to have good turnout, turnout, turnout.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:32:39
Speaker
So yes, no, no, I completely agree.
00:32:43
Speaker
Well, I don't know about you, but the last couple of weeks have been pretty, pretty interesting for both of us for a pinball.
Munsters Pinball Impressions
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's been kind of busy.
00:32:51
Speaker
What do you want to start with first?
00:32:52
Speaker
Do you want to talk about our Keto's night?
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about our Keto's night.
00:32:56
Speaker
So actually the location we're talking about is Dan knows a bar owner and talked to him about putting some pinballs on site.
00:33:09
Speaker
And I think they have about 10 to 12 there.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, something around there.
00:33:14
Speaker
And so Josh and I went out there last week and we were able to shoot Munsters.
00:33:20
Speaker
This is my first time actually getting my hands on the game.
00:33:24
Speaker
first time playing Munsters and getting some more time on Deadpool.
00:33:29
Speaker
And I will say that I was really impressed with Munsters.
00:33:34
Speaker
What did you think?
00:33:35
Speaker
You know, this is the second time I've gotten my hands on Munsters.
00:33:38
Speaker
We put about five to 10 games on it.
00:33:42
Speaker
I love it.
00:33:42
Speaker
I love the flow of it.
00:33:43
Speaker
John Borg, man, he's a genius when it comes to his design.
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, I said on the last episode, some of it's cookie cutter, but it's because he knows what he's doing.
00:33:53
Speaker
I mean, that those Eddie loops are just fantastic.
00:33:56
Speaker
I just, it was enjoyable to play.
00:33:58
Speaker
I wasn't necessarily concerned about the code because I was enjoying the shots and the ramps are beautiful.
00:34:04
Speaker
I don't know.
00:34:05
Speaker
I just, I love this game.
00:34:06
Speaker
It's a fun game.
00:34:07
Speaker
I don't know if I'll own it in my collection right now because I've got a monster bash and I do feel like they're very similar, but the shots, man, they're just, they're perfect.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
I think the shots feel so, uh, they feel fun.
00:34:20
Speaker
And I guess that's my, my biggest thing.
00:34:23
Speaker
Uh, when I play, when I play something like Deadpool and it's probably speaks to more of my skill level than necessarily the game, but it seemed like I kept bricking so many shots.
00:34:36
Speaker
And again, I admittedly, I'm an average pinball player.
00:34:41
Speaker
Um,
00:34:42
Speaker
So it could just be that, you know, if you're a better pinball player, it's going to flow better.
00:34:47
Speaker
But when I got to Munsters, I thought, you know, it just feels like the shots are where I expect them to be.
00:34:56
Speaker
I also like, when you really think about it, ramps are just filling the time for the ball to get back to you.
00:35:05
Speaker
Correct, yeah.
00:35:07
Speaker
You hit the ramp, and it's just going to make its way back either to the flipper or something like that.
00:35:11
Speaker
And with Munsters, it felt fun seeing the ball go.
00:35:15
Speaker
And I think that tells a lot about your experience with the game.
00:35:19
Speaker
Is that, does it feel fun?
00:35:21
Speaker
Does it feel like I'm just enjoying my time playing this game?
00:35:27
Speaker
Because the basic feel of pinball really hasn't changed since the 90s.
00:35:33
Speaker
Since they invented ramps, since they invented games with themes, code, level, and...
00:35:41
Speaker
a storyline, really you kind of dialed in and this is basically what you're going to expect with a pinball machine.
00:35:48
Speaker
And if you're able to find a way to make that experience either unique or fun or visually tantalizing, then I think that's going to bring you back.
00:35:58
Speaker
And for me, Munsters brought me back.
00:36:02
Speaker
I would play other games and I'd say, you know, I want to go back and play Munsters.
00:36:06
Speaker
Same here.
00:36:06
Speaker
And I think the thing with monsters I'm really enjoying that actually is better than Monster Bash is that left ramp on monsters.
00:36:15
Speaker
You kind of hold your breath.
00:36:16
Speaker
It's a steep ramp.
00:36:17
Speaker
But if you hit it, you kind of hold your breath.
00:36:20
Speaker
But once you see it get to the very top, you know you're golden.
00:36:23
Speaker
You know, it's going to go, it's going to disappear.
00:36:25
Speaker
You don't have to worry about it coming screaming back at you.
00:36:27
Speaker
That's my one complaint about monster bash is you shoot that left ramp and there's sometimes you can shoot it as clean as possible and it gets all the way, it gets halfway around that ramp and you, you think it's coming back to you and then for some odd reason screams back the other way.
00:36:41
Speaker
And so that is the one thing I do like about Munsters.
00:36:44
Speaker
And like, like to your point, I think there's two different styles of ramps out there.
00:36:47
Speaker
There's the fun ones like Munsters.
00:36:50
Speaker
And then there's the Steve Ritchie business kind.
00:36:51
Speaker
I mean, that's those Star Trek ramps.
00:36:54
Speaker
They're quick.
00:36:55
Speaker
They give you those balls back because you want to keep playing.
00:36:57
Speaker
And Star Trek's a fantastic game.
00:36:59
Speaker
So yeah.
00:37:00
Speaker
I don't know.
00:37:01
Speaker
Like I said, I agree with you with Deadpool.
00:37:04
Speaker
I do enjoy it.
00:37:05
Speaker
I, that's a game that I still don't feel like I've figured out yet.
00:37:09
Speaker
Um, we had a buddy down there named Mike and he's actually our state champ right now.
00:37:13
Speaker
And he was blowing that game up.
00:37:15
Speaker
He was at what?
00:37:16
Speaker
450 million or something.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, he was crushing it and he's such a great player.
00:37:20
Speaker
And, and you know, he could nail that, that Katana shot every time, which is, it's a hard shot.
00:37:25
Speaker
It really is.
00:37:26
Speaker
I didn't realize how hard that shot was.
00:37:28
Speaker
So I think again, and that's what I'm saying.
00:37:31
Speaker
Like, I don't want to come off and say that Deadpool's clunky because I think that's unfair.
00:37:36
Speaker
That actually speaks more of my skill level, but you know, it's a monsters felt good and visually it looks great.
00:37:44
Speaker
I don't know what else you'd really want from that era of pin, like that type of pinball machine.
00:37:51
Speaker
And yes, I think the Steve Ritchie games, they tend to keep the ball moving and
00:37:56
Speaker
at the same velocity.
00:37:58
Speaker
And so I think that is what dials in the feel of flow is that the ball really doesn't slow down.
00:38:05
Speaker
It just kind of keeps going.
00:38:06
Speaker
And so it feels very predictable and it just feels like you're on cruise control with, with the other games.
00:38:12
Speaker
Uh, I think people try to, to mix it up and make it visually interesting or kind of slow it down or, or make it a little off speed.
00:38:21
Speaker
So
00:38:21
Speaker
you know, on the right shot of monsters when it actually, uh, it goes vertical and it goes up, you know, kind of like that, uh, stern Jack, the monkey shot.
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:30
Speaker
Uh, and it just, it's different, but I like that.
00:38:34
Speaker
I like that.
00:38:34
Speaker
It just gives my eye something to look at.
00:38:37
Speaker
Well, I like that.
00:38:38
Speaker
You weren't worried as much of it rejecting men.
00:38:41
Speaker
It just hit that ramp and it flipped and it came right back to you.
00:38:44
Speaker
That right.
00:38:44
Speaker
Rams just, it's awesome.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:47
Speaker
There always seems to be that one ramp in, uh,
00:38:50
Speaker
in at least a George Gomez game, where it's not super steep, but it's so long that if you don't get enough velocity, it'll go halfway up and then come screaming back to you.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:03
Speaker
The Katana shot Deadpool, left ramp on Monster Bash, just to name a couple.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, that left ramp on Monster Bash is challenging.
00:39:13
Speaker
But, you know, again, for a better player, it's probably more automatic.
00:39:17
Speaker
So I guess I should get
00:39:19
Speaker
And the other game that I was really enjoying that night was Guardians of the Galaxy, another John Borg game.
00:39:24
Speaker
Man, that is a fantastic game.
00:39:26
Speaker
My only complaint is I cannot find the nebula shot.
00:39:30
Speaker
That's the left ramp, but it's so far up on the beginning of the flipper.
00:39:36
Speaker
I almost mentally have to prepare myself to shoot that shot because...
00:39:40
Speaker
It's not typically where ramp is, but it's a nice shot.
00:39:44
Speaker
But I'm enjoying that game as well.
00:39:47
Speaker
Once I'm starting to understand it and everything, I would like to have a Guardians at my home.
00:39:51
Speaker
There's plenty of depth there.
00:39:53
Speaker
And my only complaint about the game is the callouts.
00:39:57
Speaker
But then again, there's a couple people that have made the movie callouts as part of something that you can download to the software.
00:40:06
Speaker
So beautiful game.
00:40:08
Speaker
I think that's the challenging thing when you get into modern licenses is that it's there are so many.
00:40:17
Speaker
I don't want to say hands out because that sounds a little dismissive, but I think there's a level of expectation of, OK, well, this is the movie thing.
00:40:26
Speaker
And before they could do a dot matrix or do some, you know, some generic call outs.
00:40:31
Speaker
But when you see a movie and you have the video screen back there, people expect to see, oh, well, I'm going to get clips from the movie and I'm going to get speaking parts and I'm going to get all these other things.
00:40:41
Speaker
Well, all that takes money.
00:40:44
Speaker
And each actor is really entitled to their share, which is why you don't typically get a
00:40:52
Speaker
Callouts from ten different actors you get one person doing a lot of callouts and it kind of limits what you can do with the code and the clips and so I understand how people will do it after market to to set it up but I you know finding different locations on the shot I think that's where the elite players are different than you or me and
00:41:18
Speaker
is because they take a shot in bricks and they say, okay, mentally, I need to flip that button just a split second earlier or a split second later, and then I can dial in that shot.
00:41:29
Speaker
That's what makes them elite.
00:41:31
Speaker
For me, I just keep bricking the same shot and thinking, oh, the game feels clunky.
00:41:35
Speaker
I know what you mean.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah, I totally know what you mean.
00:41:38
Speaker
But well, and another excited thing while I was playing pinball there with you that night, I don't know if it's exciting.
Personal Anecdotes and Reflections
00:41:43
Speaker
It scared the crap out of me.
00:41:44
Speaker
My wife calls and says, uh, everything's all right.
00:41:48
Speaker
Which, you know, when you first get that statement, something bad's coming after that statement.
00:41:54
Speaker
And she, she said she's in contractions.
00:41:56
Speaker
My wife's 26 weeks pregnant at this point.
00:41:58
Speaker
And I'm freaking out cause I'm three hours away.
00:42:00
Speaker
She's like, they got me shut down.
00:42:02
Speaker
Don't worry about it.
00:42:02
Speaker
But threw me for a loop in the middle of our pinball night and
00:42:06
Speaker
I'm gone one night.
00:42:07
Speaker
We weren't doing a tournament.
00:42:08
Speaker
So you could have left, but yes.
00:42:12
Speaker
But you were staying the night in Salt Lake at the time.
00:42:14
Speaker
Correct.
00:42:17
Speaker
When you get a call from your family and it says, don't freak out.
00:42:20
Speaker
You're just like, okay, what's going on?
00:42:23
Speaker
But yeah, it kind of freaked me out.
00:42:24
Speaker
But she was good.
00:42:26
Speaker
I got home.
00:42:26
Speaker
She was fine.
00:42:27
Speaker
But the other thing that happened to me this past week was, and I posted it on our Facebook page, I joined the club of glass shattering in my hands.
00:42:37
Speaker
Oh, it was not fantastic at all.
00:42:39
Speaker
I never want that to happen again.
00:42:40
Speaker
Well, it was pretty.
00:42:42
Speaker
Sure.
00:42:42
Speaker
I guess.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it was pretty.
00:42:44
Speaker
But the weirdest part to me is I've never noticed this and no one's ever mentioned it.
00:42:48
Speaker
But after you shatter that tempered glass, it pops like pop rocks.
00:42:54
Speaker
You hear it popping.
00:42:55
Speaker
If you just sit there and you listen...
00:42:57
Speaker
As I was cleaning it up, I'm like, what is popping?
00:42:59
Speaker
I realized it was all the glass.
00:43:00
Speaker
I don't know if it's still expanding or what's going on.
00:43:02
Speaker
But yeah, I would recommend not doing that to everyone.
00:43:06
Speaker
It's tempered glass.
00:43:07
Speaker
And so actually the fracture lines, what it does is when it fractures, it ends up just crumbling the whole thing because it breaks in such a way that there's no sharp edges.
00:43:18
Speaker
And so it has predictable fracture patterns.
00:43:22
Speaker
So yeah, once you start it, it just keeps going.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah, it just kept going and going and going, man.
00:43:28
Speaker
It just sucked.
00:43:30
Speaker
And one of my friends said, you're going to be cleaning that up for the next two years.
00:43:35
Speaker
I'm still finding pieces.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's everywhere.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:40
Speaker
Well, let's move on to some news from this week.
00:43:43
Speaker
Everyone's been talking about the new Stern title that could be released not at TPF.
00:43:50
Speaker
I know Stern's marketing is usually like two weeks after TPF, and the prediction is...
00:43:57
Speaker
Oh, I want to say it's a gaming convention.
00:43:59
Speaker
Sorry, don't shoot me.
00:44:00
Speaker
It's sometime in April.
00:44:03
Speaker
Kaneda is the one that brought it up because he said if they line up the schedule like they did last year, it'll be done at that event.
00:44:09
Speaker
And they're talking about Steve Ritchie's game.
00:44:11
Speaker
It's either going to be Black Knight 3000 or High Speed 3.
00:44:15
Speaker
Which one do you think it's going to be?
00:44:16
Speaker
We talked about this last episode where there's got to be a theme that kind of draws people in.
00:44:24
Speaker
And so if it's another high speed slash getaway game or like a black Knight 3000 or something along those lines, I think that's all in, that's great.
00:44:39
Speaker
Except will that work for the mass market?
00:44:42
Speaker
Because again, you're not just trying to sell for the pinball enthusiast, because if you were just selling for the pinball enthusiast,
00:44:50
Speaker
something like Dialed In would actually have sold more, even though Dialed In has actually sold a good amount, but it doesn't have the thing that's going to draw people in who aren't pinball people.
00:45:01
Speaker
If they're going to the movie theater and they see a game over there, they're like, oh, well, should I do that?
00:45:06
Speaker
Will people be more likely to go in and put a quarter in ACDC or an Aerosmith or a Black Knight 3000 or a Getaway?
00:45:16
Speaker
I'm not really sure.
00:45:16
Speaker
And I guess that's where we're trying to
00:45:19
Speaker
find out what the market demands.
00:45:23
Speaker
But either way, if it's Steve Ritchie game, you know, it's going to shoot really well.
00:45:27
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:45:28
Speaker
Well, and the only other thought process I have on this is we are at a point where people are buying attack for Mars, medieval madness, monster bash for location.
00:45:38
Speaker
But then again, those gameplays on those games do lend very well to the general public.
00:45:43
Speaker
So, um, I know that Tommy has, uh, from this flipping podcast has been operating his monster bash and he says it's been doing well out on location there in Indiana.
00:45:54
Speaker
So I just, I don't know if theme theme is, it's like trying to find a new girlfriend, I guess.
00:46:03
Speaker
Right.
00:46:04
Speaker
Well, it's what catches your eye, but the game plays what wants you to stay in the relationship for longer.
00:46:08
Speaker
Well, it's, it's the same thing as having, um,
00:46:12
Speaker
like you get used to what worked before.
00:46:17
Speaker
And so you get risk averse where, you know, they were trying to do different things.
00:46:21
Speaker
And then really from like 2010 on, they said, you know what, let's just lock into movie licenses and bands.
00:46:28
Speaker
And if you look at Stern, that's really what they've sold.
00:46:33
Speaker
And the only outlier is Mustang, a car one.
00:46:38
Speaker
But everything else has been in those two genres.
00:46:41
Speaker
And so it's worked really well for them.
00:46:44
Speaker
It brought pinball back from the grave, and they were able to get a lot of play.
00:46:52
Speaker
Then JJP came out with an original theme.
00:46:56
Speaker
Now, it's an original theme, but it's done by a very well-known designer in Pat Lawler.
00:47:04
Speaker
And so in some ways, although it's an original theme, it's still a themed game.
00:47:09
Speaker
It's a Pat Lawler game.
00:47:11
Speaker
So is this going to be like, yeah, it could be an original thing.
00:47:14
Speaker
Fine.
00:47:14
Speaker
But it's still a Steve Ritchie game.
00:47:18
Speaker
I think that as long as people are having fun, having that fun factor that works for entry level players and experienced players, I think you're going to have success.
00:47:30
Speaker
Oh, I got it.
00:47:31
Speaker
There also has to be a reason people want to buy the game.
00:47:34
Speaker
And do you remember when Dialed In was released?
00:47:37
Speaker
I watched the I wasn't at the expo.
00:47:41
Speaker
but I watched the release party and you could just feel a thud that people just looked at it and said, I don't get this.
00:47:49
Speaker
But then there was that thread on pin side where the guy posted and says, I played dialed in and it's great.
00:47:57
Speaker
And it really shocked people about that.
00:47:59
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:48:01
Speaker
I guess that if I were better at predicting the future, then I would be a millionaire.
00:48:07
Speaker
But I think that that's,
00:48:10
Speaker
You need to try to predict themes that people are going to want before they want them.
00:48:15
Speaker
Well, and the thing with Dialed In, I kind of wonder if it has to do with the name, too.
00:48:20
Speaker
I mean, that game revolved around Quantum City.
00:48:23
Speaker
I was wondering why they didn't just name it Quantum City.
00:48:26
Speaker
I know that they wanted to push the whole cell phone concept, but...
00:48:32
Speaker
I don't know.
00:48:33
Speaker
I still think it would have been a better idea to go quantum city, but Hey, I think they should have, I think they should have changed it to quantum city and, or, you know, or electric city or electric company.
00:48:43
Speaker
I don't know what, I think the name, yes, the name, and I, I think admittedly the art direction felt a little too retro and not retro in like a total nuclear annihilation.
00:48:57
Speaker
Cool.
00:48:58
Speaker
It felt kind of like a, um,
00:49:02
Speaker
The art was done by a grandpa who's trying to be cool.
00:49:05
Speaker
I could kind of see that.
00:49:07
Speaker
But it's such a great game.
00:49:09
Speaker
I love playing the game.
00:49:11
Speaker
And I think it's been kind of a slow burn in the pinball community where people will say, yeah, it's a great game.
00:49:19
Speaker
But I don't know of anybody who would walk by it and say, that's a great looking game.
00:49:24
Speaker
I want to put a quarter in that.
00:49:26
Speaker
Well, I wanted to talk about one more thing that I don't see anyone else talking about.
00:49:31
Speaker
And maybe it's because it might be just trolling at this point.
00:49:34
Speaker
But the next title after Steve Richie's is going to be a vault.
00:49:38
Speaker
That's how if we follow the Stern timeline, the vault was released in May, I want to say of last year.
00:49:44
Speaker
And that was Star Trek.
00:49:47
Speaker
But John Borg just changed his background picture on Facebook to the two ladies of Tron.
00:49:54
Speaker
Do you think this is a sign or is he just trolling us that Tron's going to be the next vault?
00:50:00
Speaker
I think they'll always play coy.
00:50:02
Speaker
Um,
00:50:04
Speaker
But if you look at it from a manufacturing standpoint, Stern has always said, we're manufacturers, right?
00:50:13
Speaker
They're there to sell games and to keep the line moving.
00:50:16
Speaker
True.
00:50:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:17
Speaker
So if you look at historically, let's just go back to 2000, okay?
00:50:25
Speaker
The death of Williams and Stern's the only player, right?
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:31
Speaker
what are the games that people say, I wish that were available and I'll guarantee only two come up, which two Lord, the rings and Tron.
00:50:42
Speaker
Exactly.
00:50:44
Speaker
And so if you are stern, you are going to go where the money is.
00:50:50
Speaker
I mean, what, okay.
00:50:52
Speaker
You also have to look at if not that, which one,
00:50:58
Speaker
Well, the problem with Lord of the Rings is the system's old enough that it's not on the line anymore.
00:51:03
Speaker
They don't produce the White Star system at all.
00:51:06
Speaker
Right.
00:51:06
Speaker
And so logically, Tron makes sense because it's still a SAM system, and they're making Star Treks with the SAM system still in them.
00:51:15
Speaker
Also, Tron is cheaper.
00:51:18
Speaker
Yes, it is.
00:51:20
Speaker
So if you're going to say, okay, well, it's not going to be Tron, great.
00:51:24
Speaker
Which one are they going to make?
00:51:26
Speaker
Because Lord of the Rings, yes, and yeah, the Vault editions tend to be in the premium category, so you're looking around $7,000, $8,000.
00:51:36
Speaker
But it would take a lot more effort to get a Vault Lord of the Rings up off the ground just from finding if you're going to put figures on there, whether or not you're going to do that, manufacturing the Balrog, manufacturing all the little components in that.
00:51:53
Speaker
It's kind of a complicated game.
00:51:56
Speaker
What is there on Tron?
00:51:57
Speaker
The spinning disc.
00:51:59
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing about Tron is they would have to add stuff.
00:52:03
Speaker
You can't just leave Tron the way it is and sell it for $5,500.
00:52:06
Speaker
That's my opinion.
00:52:08
Speaker
You just can't.
00:52:09
Speaker
Iron Man Vault Edition was... I own the Iron Man Vault Edition, and there's very little difference between that and the standard.
00:52:16
Speaker
And it's a great game.
00:52:18
Speaker
And so I think that...
Speculations on Stern's Tron Vault Edition
00:52:20
Speaker
What are they going to do?
00:52:20
Speaker
Are they going to make eye candy?
00:52:22
Speaker
If you really look at...
00:52:24
Speaker
So pretend like you're Stern.
00:52:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:27
Speaker
And you're like, okay, so I want to make a vault edition on Tron.
00:52:31
Speaker
What would you do?
00:52:32
Speaker
Honestly, at this point, I would, if it were me, maybe change the art package just because it's a little dark and a little basic and call it good.
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
So here's what I would do.
00:52:45
Speaker
I would update the art package.
00:52:47
Speaker
So
00:52:48
Speaker
Do something really great.
00:52:50
Speaker
Get one of your three artists that you love and your go-to and figure out how you're going to dial that in.
00:52:55
Speaker
And then you're going to make it look like one of these customized Trons out there.
00:53:04
Speaker
So the Tron that I have is ultra customized.
00:53:08
Speaker
If you've actually seen the Buffalo Pinball guys stream their Tron, I made the same Tron.
00:53:14
Speaker
And so it has lighted wire forms.
00:53:16
Speaker
It has great looking bikes.
00:53:18
Speaker
It has a Flynn's Arcade sign.
00:53:20
Speaker
It has the little...
00:53:22
Speaker
You know, it has the arcade over the scoop, the nice one, not the one that looks like it came out of a 50 cent gumball machine.
00:53:30
Speaker
Yeah, I know what you mean.
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:32
Speaker
And you're gonna do that, but really that's not expensive.
00:53:38
Speaker
Like making something pretty is not expensive.
00:53:41
Speaker
What's expensive is a functional toy and you don't have to put any functionality in Tron to make it sell because if you have a better sound package,
00:53:56
Speaker
If you have a better, I don't want to say better light show, but a more integrated light environment and you have a crisper art package, it will sell.
00:54:06
Speaker
And it'll sell a lot because Tron was the first game after JJP announced Wizard of Oz where Stern said, okay, we need to step it up.
00:54:17
Speaker
And that's really where they started to really kind of crank it up is kind of that ACDC Tron era where they said, okay, this is our wake-up call.
00:54:24
Speaker
We need to do better.
00:54:25
Speaker
Well, my only complaint with Tron is really the basicness of not even the artwork, but even the inserts are very basic.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yes, it looks early.
00:54:36
Speaker
I would say it looks like a 1990s type game where you can tell something's going to happen in the future, but you can see the genesis of it in Tron.
00:54:50
Speaker
Correct, yeah.
00:54:51
Speaker
But if they updated the art package and made it a little flasher, made the light show, they would sell a thousand of those.
00:55:01
Speaker
No, I agree, man.
00:55:03
Speaker
I don't understand why they haven't made it yet.
00:55:05
Speaker
And maybe they're just – maybe they're waiting for the hobby.
00:55:08
Speaker
I mean the hobby is prime right now.
00:55:10
Speaker
Maybe it wasn't a year ago.
00:55:12
Speaker
Well, and I don't know.
00:55:14
Speaker
I think that you could also argue what were they making last year and did they have as much of a lag in the schedule?
00:55:26
Speaker
Because they probably pumped out, I don't know, a few hundred Star Treks.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:33
Speaker
And you could still buy Star Trek.
00:55:34
Speaker
And so they pumped out a few hundred of them, but it kept the line going because they're a manufacturing company.
00:55:41
Speaker
So maybe even last year they said, look, we don't have the time to do a Tron Vault edition right now.
00:55:48
Speaker
So we are just going to do something that, yeah, we can sell a few hundred of these and people will pay extra for them.
00:55:54
Speaker
But I think it's ready to have that big vault release.
00:56:00
Speaker
And so...
00:56:02
Speaker
The argument I'm always going to go back to is, if not Tron, then what?
00:56:06
Speaker
Do you think they're going to release Monopoly, Big Buck Hunter, Wheel of Fortune?
00:56:10
Speaker
They'll actually finish the code?
00:56:13
Speaker
Yeah, we're not getting any of those.
00:56:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're going to sell five of those.
00:56:18
Speaker
But go where the money is.
00:56:21
Speaker
That's what they're going to do.
00:56:22
Speaker
Stern knows, man, they know how to make money.
00:56:26
Speaker
There's a reason they've been in business longer than everyone else right now at this point.
00:56:29
Speaker
So moving on, though, let's let's go over to Chicago Gaming Company.
00:56:33
Speaker
The news is while Monster Bash was delayed and whatnot, they were actually working on Cactus Canyon and Cactus Canyon is being ready to be shown at Texas Pinball Festival.
00:56:44
Speaker
And not only that, supposedly they got the original software designer to complete the rest of the software for Cactus Canyon.
00:56:52
Speaker
Would you like a cactus Canyon?
00:56:54
Speaker
I mean, let's just, just pretend of all the games they could make.
00:56:57
Speaker
Would, would you want that?
00:56:58
Speaker
I mean, as the fourth one, as the fourth out of everything else, what, what would you want?
00:57:05
Speaker
I don't know, to be entirely honest at this point, they've kind of made all the ones I want medieval madness attack for Mars monster bash.
00:57:11
Speaker
I mean, those are the, the, the Holy Trinity.
00:57:14
Speaker
I don't know what you want to call it, but, um,
00:57:17
Speaker
Cactus Canyon to me is attack from Mars.
00:57:21
Speaker
It is medieval madness.
00:57:22
Speaker
It's the same rules, just cowboy style.
00:57:26
Speaker
You're you've got five main objectives you're trying to complete.
00:57:31
Speaker
You complete those by hitting certain ramp shots and certain orbits.
00:57:35
Speaker
So many times, um, the, the Banderos or whatever they're called, that's your castle.
00:57:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:57:43
Speaker
And it, it,
00:57:44
Speaker
I didn't grow up in the forties and the fifties and the sixties watching Westerns.
00:57:48
Speaker
I know Westerns were huge.
00:57:49
Speaker
They were, I know the superhero movies are the superhero movie or they're the big thing right now.
00:57:54
Speaker
Westerns were the big things during the sixties and the seventies.
00:57:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:58
Speaker
Basically Westerns to them are superheroes to us.
00:58:02
Speaker
Correct.
00:58:02
Speaker
And so it just, it doesn't appeal to me theme wise.
00:58:05
Speaker
I do enjoy the humor that is there.
00:58:08
Speaker
And I like the whole shooting the bad guy and whatnot.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:13
Speaker
But it's not a game that I'm going to say, I need that in my collection right now.
00:58:16
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:58:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:18
Speaker
I think it's from a business standpoint, I think they could say, well, it sells for this amount.
00:58:25
Speaker
You know, however, there's...
00:58:28
Speaker
There are two factors that go into the price of a game.
00:58:31
Speaker
And one is demand and the other is supply.
00:58:35
Speaker
And with Cactus Canyon, it was just blown off the line.
00:58:39
Speaker
They just said, you know what?
00:58:41
Speaker
We're just putting out what we have and then we're putting everything into Pinball 2000.
00:58:45
Speaker
And so there just hasn't been that many out there.
00:58:50
Speaker
So raise your hand if you've played a Cactus Canyon other than on the Pinball Arcade.
00:58:56
Speaker
That's the only place I've played it.
00:58:58
Speaker
That's the problem.
00:58:59
Speaker
Have you ever said, wow, I want to go back to that?
00:59:02
Speaker
Ever since they announced that they were making it, I've went back to play it to see what I would be getting, essentially.
00:59:09
Speaker
Now, I will say, admittedly, and I've said this before, it's not my game.
00:59:14
Speaker
But is there a market for it?
00:59:16
Speaker
Because I'm sure they've done a lot of market analysis and they've tried to say, well, okay, this is what we do.
00:59:23
Speaker
And so, yes, is there possibly one?
00:59:26
Speaker
See, for me, I would actually, I would remake Whitewater because the price is going up in Whitewater.
00:59:35
Speaker
And the demand, I think, works really well.
00:59:39
Speaker
Like there are enough Whitewaters out there
00:59:42
Speaker
But it's kind of like Lord of the Rings.
00:59:44
Speaker
Lord of the Rings still hovers around $6,000.
00:59:46
Speaker
But you don't think someone would pay $7,500 for a vault?
00:59:50
Speaker
Lord of the Rings?
00:59:51
Speaker
I think they would.
00:59:52
Speaker
With better art, with better speakers, and that hasn't been routed for 15 years or at least five years.
01:00:02
Speaker
And I think the same thing with if you had like a Whitewater.
01:00:07
Speaker
I would do a Whitewater.
01:00:08
Speaker
I think you could sell a lot more of it.
01:00:10
Speaker
But I guess we'll see.
01:00:12
Speaker
They'll see how many they can solo those.
01:00:15
Speaker
They sold, what, 1,250 LEs on Monster Bash?
01:00:23
Speaker
I don't think those are all sold out yet.
01:00:25
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, they're obviously feeling confident to go high enough on those numbers.
01:00:29
Speaker
They're not going to make 1,250 LEs of Cactus Canyon.
01:00:37
Speaker
Like they could, but that's the only release then because I just don't see selling 1200 of them.
01:00:42
Speaker
Correct.
01:00:44
Speaker
Well, and the interesting part to me too, is the second rumor with Chicago is they're coming out with an original license after this game.
01:00:51
Speaker
So are they going to put the rest of the games on back burner that they were going to make?
01:00:55
Speaker
Are they getting in the business now of making original games?
01:00:59
Speaker
Maybe I don't buy too much that they're doing original games.
01:01:03
Speaker
Why would you?
01:01:04
Speaker
You have a you have a back catalog of greatest hits.
01:01:09
Speaker
Make the greatest hits.
01:01:10
Speaker
You can make money with that.
01:01:12
Speaker
And I think that it's possible they could do, but no one's heard anything about their designer.
01:01:20
Speaker
No one's heard anything about the coder.
01:01:22
Speaker
or their artists or anybody who's really working behind the scenes.
01:01:26
Speaker
So I think that's a smoke screen.
01:01:27
Speaker
I would be surprised if they came out with an original theme.
01:01:31
Speaker
I wouldn't.
01:01:31
Speaker
And here's the reason.
01:01:33
Speaker
Your remakes are your business money.
01:01:36
Speaker
Your original themes could become your funny money.
01:01:38
Speaker
It could be the testing the waters kind of thing.
01:01:40
Speaker
You know you're making good money on your remakes.
01:01:44
Speaker
Why not take a chance and go out there and see if you can?
01:01:47
Speaker
Because this is the other thing too is Chicago...
01:01:52
Speaker
Chicago gaming has an expiration date on their remakes.
01:01:54
Speaker
There's only so many remakes you can make before it becomes time that you do need to start making original tiles.
01:02:00
Speaker
You might as well put one out between your two remake titles and see what happens.
01:02:05
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:05
Speaker
And that's fair.
01:02:06
Speaker
I think that's fair.
01:02:07
Speaker
I just, I would suspect we would hear more about their development, but maybe they're keeping it closed.
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:16
Speaker
Who knows?
01:02:17
Speaker
Very tight lipped.
01:02:18
Speaker
Right.
01:02:19
Speaker
So I just don't see it happening.
01:02:21
Speaker
But if it does, hey, more pinball is good.
01:02:24
Speaker
Yep.
01:02:25
Speaker
Well, we're a little bit over the hour mark.
01:02:27
Speaker
I think it's time for us to wrap it up.
01:02:29
Speaker
Before we go, you got any closing thoughts for us, Scott?
01:02:32
Speaker
I'm looking forward to what's going on in Texas.
01:02:35
Speaker
I wish I were going this year.
01:02:37
Speaker
It just didn't really work in my schedule.
01:02:40
Speaker
But I am looking forward to that.
01:02:42
Speaker
And I'm looking forward to the Salt Lake Gaming Con.
01:02:44
Speaker
And I'm probably looking forward to Rocky Mountain Pinball, too.
01:02:47
Speaker
Those are the two shows that are closest to us.
01:02:50
Speaker
Same here.
01:02:50
Speaker
I'm excited for Texas.
01:02:51
Speaker
I want to see what happens not only at Texas, but two weeks after.
01:02:54
Speaker
Exactly.
01:02:57
Speaker
Man, time flies when we start doing these podcasts, but I don't know.
01:03:03
Speaker
I'm having fun with them.
01:03:04
Speaker
I appreciate all the people have been reaching out.
01:03:05
Speaker
They've been talking to us, all the support we've been getting.
01:03:09
Speaker
It's just, it's been fun.
01:03:10
Speaker
You know, well, we started,
01:03:13
Speaker
middle or middle of January.
01:03:14
Speaker
I've never thought we would have gotten to this point.
01:03:16
Speaker
I just did as a goof off thing, but we appreciate it.
01:03:19
Speaker
So, yeah.
01:03:21
Speaker
Thank you to all of our listeners.
01:03:22
Speaker
And if you have any questions or comments, you can contact us at loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com, or you can hit us up on Facebook at loser kid pinball podcast.
01:03:34
Speaker
Scott and I are both individually on Facebook.
01:03:36
Speaker
If you want to reach out that way as well, we'd love to hear from you.
01:03:40
Speaker
Questions, comments, concerns, whatever.
01:03:43
Speaker
We'll take them there.
01:03:44
Speaker
So I guess it's time to say adios, my buddy.
01:03:48
Speaker
Adios.
01:03:49
Speaker
See you in two weeks.
01:03:49
Speaker
All right.
01:03:50
Speaker
Sounds good, man.
01:03:50
Speaker
Bye.