Transcript
Speaker: Popularity Popularity Popularity Contest
Speaker: Hello, my name is Kate Saab. I'm joined by Sam Lane. Yes. And this is the popularity contest. look We're gonna do something a little bit different to start off the show today.
Speaker: Sam has prepared something that he would like to share with... us This is a poem. that I found online that means a lot to me. And I'm going to... Read this out. It's inspired by a popular song that's out at the moment. This is a safe space, so everybody please be nice. um Would you like me to sing it or read it poem style?
Speaker: I think that you should do whatever. Your gut tells you to. Two. got a trade back in boston he was eating my butt and i'm telling you baby this the part where i nut but i like it when you pipe like it when you pipe in me Come on, sing it, Kate.
Speaker: That was Stella Lefty's Boston brackets gay version. Yeah. As found on r slash Stella Lefty. Because today we are talking about... NEPO babies. Stella Lefty is the NEPO baby du jour.
Speaker: I would stay. She is the baby that broke the camel's back. Yeah, she's the nepo baby. She was on there. And that camel was like... Oh. like Oh, you come from so much of money. It was like, you got me tripping. Oh, stumbling. Oh, and then.
Speaker: Yes, the lefty was like, and I like it when you buy. Gotta train. Sorry, that shit seat has five up votes. And I want to, like, I'm pretty sure that there are some people that do have trade back in Boston. Some people do have trade back in Boston.
Speaker: And that's absolutely legitimate. She made that song. Just for them. just so I had the... Absolute honor and privilege of introducing Stella Lefty to Kate today in preparation for this episode. um because she has been all over my feeds over the past few weeks.
Speaker: Allegations of ah plagiarizing things. yeahp above the discovery about her nepo quote -unquote nepo origins so i played you boston like not 10 minutes ago which is her hit song yep um what was Before you even knew anything about it, what was your initial reaction?
Speaker: Okay. Like that was it. Yeah, and so are you surprised then that she's like... you know one of the bit like it's up on the billboard charts it's like she's doing really She's really massive right now. you know going on arena tours, supporting people.
Speaker: etc. does that Did that surprise you? as you found that out. Honestly? No, but I think it's because I knew what the topic was today. That's true. And so... The - The clues, the puzzle pieces, you know, I could see it all. coming together in my brain of like. This woman's music is...
Speaker: Okay. Like I said. Doesn't offer anything. It's probably she's, you know, selling out these things because. She has the money too. And you know what? I guess it does go to show. that bots might be a good thing for some people. Yes. I mean, the bot farm is working. It happened with Gacy. It can happen with her.
Speaker: Did that happen to geese? Well, they they had like a... paid unit user generated content stuff which is like like which was the whole psyop thing But... Stella Lefty, as a brief kind of Primer, for those who don't know. ah She was born and raised in Glencoe, Illinois, which is a very wealthy area of Chicago. I have family who live there. I've been to Glencoe. I've done boots on the ground journalism unknowingly. Was it beautiful? It it was beautiful suburbia. i would I would liken it, if you were in Sydney, to like a Taramara.
Speaker: oh Right? Like it's leafy suburbs. ah Her father is billionaire businessman Eric Leftofsky. Her real name is Stella Leftofsky. He is the CEO of Groupon.
Speaker: uh which is like an e -commerce thing it does like a coupon things like it'll be like Have you used Groupon before? Groupon is great. That's how I got my Ugg boots, actually. It was a deal on.
Speaker: But... He is not. He's the founder, but he's not. um CEO of Groupon anymore now. He um started an AI company. An AI health company called Tempest AI, um which to his credit was founded after his wife caught breast cancer. It uses auto -official intelligence to... essentially help diagnose certain things. ah No clue, probably. And that's beyond the scope of the conversation. But the point is her father is very wealthy.
Speaker: And Stella... is now making it as a country musician. She's making it a country position. from um glencoe from Glencoe, Illinois. ah Now. What we're going to do is probably...
Speaker: Zero in a bit on the still lefty head, because I think it's... Exposed. How? bad we are at defining what a nepo baby is because to be clear she is To some extent, an epic baby. But...
Speaker: Maybe not like the most exacting definition of that. So... I don't know. I guess with Stella. The other wrinkle to her thing is all her songs seem to be...
Speaker: plagiarized or interpreted. so Um... Boston, the song we we just played and what I so lovingly sung, interpolates Noah Khan, Stick Season. Which Sam also showed me and I had never heard before. And it was another thing where I was like.
Speaker: Okay. And he's playing, like, arena shows around the country, which is in you know which is crazy. Yeah. um And so that it was so much like, and and she insists that she'd never heard of it.
Speaker: There are all these TikToks I've heard that were since deleted of her performing. Stick season covers on her TikTok. Which is so funny. She's like, I literally didn't even think about anything when I was writing this song. And it's like, he's 16. Oh my God. But she, you know, it got so much that basically his team reached out and said, can you please credit us? uh on On the record, some of her other songs have also been interpolated. So her song, Some of You Are Mine, from her record Long Way Home, which just came out.
Speaker: interpolates the Chicks, formerly known as the Dixie Chicks song, There's Your Trouble. The closing from that album, Why Wouldn't We, allegedly has the same core and response as a song by Blake Shelton, who's a very big country artist. And even one of the verses in 7 -Eleven, which is one of her singles, allegedly interpret interpolates Weedus' Teenage Dirtbag. She's...
Speaker: Number one. Okay. First of all, I've got a couple of points. She's been to a 7 -Eleven? Question mark
Speaker: My second thing is that. I think that... for Noah Khan's team. It must have just been easier to ask her to. foot. him like in the writing credits. rather than suing?
Speaker: Because, obviously, like she would have the power of a thousand suns against this guy. Yes. With all of the money from her family. Which is like... hilarious to me yeah the fact that she's like Like fake Southern act. I've never heard of Dick Thethen before. And i think like they pull up, heard your mom. This like, I think that the music that she's making is like what.
Speaker: Um, originals kids would write for the school talent show. Like, yes, it's an original in quotation marks because the lyrics are their own. But, you know, nothing exists in a vacuum. And especially if you're not.
Speaker: A seasoned artist? A stick seasoned artist. Oh, there you go. I think that like, that's just why I think that, you know, I'm not. I'm not plussed by it. Like, I don't really care. Yeah. About her music because.
Speaker: it give It's nothing. Well, what's so shocking, I guess, is just how big it's gotten. I first heard of So Lefty when the New York Times pop cast said she'd be the song of the summer. And they were kind of right. Ella Langley, Choose in Texas is like going to be the longest number one hit soon, which is insane as well. I haven't heard that one either. I listened to it for the first time the other day and I was like, this is such a nothing burger of a song. I don't know. I feel like we are in a bit of a cultural wasteland right now, which is kind of why I think Stella Lefty has taken up so much cultural space. Because there's nothing else. If anything else is happening, it wouldn't happen.
Speaker: ah But I think we should talk about what exactly it makes a nepo baby. Definition. from the dictionary is favoritism based on kinship, so You have a relative.
Speaker: and they get you a job Right. In that industry. so A good example would be... The footy reporter, Xander Maguire. He is the son of Eddie Maguire.
Speaker: a Big media personality for footy, former president of Collingwood. That is very cut and dry. Is this Eddie McGuire who is also the host of Millionaire Hot Seat? Yeah, yeah, all that stuff. Okay, great. Didn't know about the football stuff. I mainly know for the footy side. That's pretty cut and dry nepotism. Okay. I mean...
Speaker: Nepotism can occur. And from very small stakes to very large stakes, like I know of artists. that that i do through work that are on like local scenes that have parrots who were musicians before.
Speaker: They are not like anywhere near like successful or anything. like They are very much jobbing local musicians. But that would still... probably qualify as nepotism. well You know, it's because it's sort of like that. nepotism is coming from like um seeing someone else close to you.
Speaker: do that thing successfully or like. being brought up into it so maybe it is like kind of what you know or kind of what you think it means to be a functioning adult and like that's how you want to live your life because that's how you've seen it.
Speaker: um Or just in the sense of like. You know. It might be hard for someone who's wanting to break into the music industry. Who comes from a line of like lawyers and doctors and whatever.
Speaker: Because they don't. know how to get there. Yeah, I think I think the big thing that i've I've realized just looking into like what is nepotism is that People like to make it out that it's a lot more cut and dry than...
Speaker: It actually is. ah A lot of fake Nepo allegations. are thrown around. um Usually against women, which is a point we'll get to later. Yep. We will get to that later. but um Wait, do you mean fake nepo or false nepo accusations? False nepo. False nepo is what I mean. For example, Audrey Hobart. Who was one of my I I'm not a you ka would you call me a big pop music fan?
Speaker: Not necessarily. No. No. I fucking love Audrey Herbert. I think her record is unreal. I'm such a massive fan of her. Which is like a, I would say like. Because I don't usually like pop... Music, I would... i think that holds a little more weight okay is what i would say like i you know you can show me any fucking like
Speaker: alie alt country MJ Lenderman core whatever and I'll be like drooling over it. That doesn't mean it's a good record. yeah This I think is when you find something that's in a different genre. really sorry and No, no, no. Can we get a... Reload on that o Okay. Um.
Speaker: She is the best friend of Gracie Abrams, another big nepo baby in this conversation. Are they best friends or were they just college roommates? ah That means you're best friends in the US. That's how it works. so So she first came to fame. Her dad is like a staff writer on a...
Speaker: Like on a TV show. ah But like not in any kind of major i think it maybe it was malcolm in the middle or something like that like it was like a ah tv sick like he was you know a He would have been on the picket line for the the writer's strike, yeah you know? yeah um
Speaker: And she goes to NYU for school. She is roomies with Gracie Abrams. who is the daughter of J .J. Abrams and... The guy who ruined Star Trek. Yeah, and... She ends up co -writing a lot of Gracie's songs from the from the Secret Life of Us, where her last record was called. Don't don't care look at me. I don't care. I don't care about Gracie that much. but Audrey gets these unfair Nepo allegations because her brother is Malcolm Todd, another big ah musician. He was here for Laneway recently.
Speaker: But like, it's kind of just unfounded. Like they had proximity. to other people, but they didn't. like they more just came from creative families but i think it shows how like culturally illiterate some people could be because it's like it's She's very obviously not Nepo.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. Um. So that's kind of part two, which is like, well... Being in proximity to fame does not make you nepa like to be I think we need to narrow it back down and be like Nepotism is that more direct.
Speaker: You're Your parent is in or brother, whatever the fuck is in this industry and they directly get you something. because of that like that quid pro quo yeah Um.
Speaker: I would say this is something that maybe is far more common in film and television. um Or maybe that it's more... obvious to us that it's in film and television because these are what like this is what like pop culture kind of is based on.
Speaker: And this is what we're made aware of where. I mean, you know The Murdoch family, that's all nepotism. Yes. Right? and But it's kind of seen as normal and big business for nepotism. Yes, yes. Very normal and big business. But like when you see like ah Maya Hawke in Stranger Things, like there is kind of a pang of like, oh. Are you a good actor or is it your parents or?
Speaker: I think then too... Um. Then maybe moving to this part of what? you know, why being a nepo isn't always that bad. is because you know she like someone like Maya Hawke has had the access to this thing.
Speaker: um and the training and you know seeing her parents be successful at it. So she knows what it takes and what the steps are. in order to get there. And it might be easier for her because her parents have made all this money to pay for acting classes and do whatever. And, you know. she's surrounded by i'm pretty sure that all of her like family friends are children of actors and other people in the... in the you know, television. whatever, filmmaking industry.
Speaker: So like that as a baseline, you know, it would make sense that. She saw this thing. She has access to it. And I am glad. That she's good at it.
Speaker: Because. that means that you know it's not a waste of... Like. the the funds or a spot but yes like it is it is like a genuine and i think this is maybe why it irks people so much and people get so protective In creative industries. Because it is.
Speaker: Such a zero -sum game. And it's not like, for example, in sport. there are Nepo babies are very much less... common in sport in the sense that they are in Music or film?
Speaker: Because it's like you can't carry someone who's... bad or like less good at a sport like Giannis Antetokounmpo's brothers were like on NBA rosters and they were basically Paid so to keep Giannis happy.
Speaker: Aw, that's cute. Which is kind of funny. And they're still pretty good, but they shouldn't be playing in the NBA. That is exceedingly rare. It's quite common that people are...
Speaker: kids of NBA players, like Stephen Curry is the is the kid of an NBA player. So it was Clay Thompson, things like that. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Thompson and Dale Curry. parents like And so there's that where it's like you inherited the genes, but like... But also they, you know, it was like a bonding thing for the family. We're like, this is something we like to do together. Let's, you know, play some basketball. It gets a bit more nuanced. Here's a nepo baby, Whitney Houston.
Speaker: Did you know that? No. she's but She would, like... Fulfill the definition. So her her mother was a gospel and soul singer who won several Grammys. Whoa! Yeah, right? Aretha Franklin.
Speaker: Uh... was like an honorary aunt for her, like an - Aunt? Aunt? That's one of my American words I can't say. You know, like a god. Mother or whatever. But we wouldn't say Whitney Houston isn't worth it.
Speaker: You know, and maybe I just like I'm not aware of these things because, you know, I wasn't raised in a household where like people of color were like. you know, spoken about a lot, are like famous, you know what I mean? where I had a pretty white. upbringing and so you know i didn't know that Yeah. whitney hoton But I guess the point to be made is more just like...
Speaker: Just because someone... Has net nepotism... I think has acquired a connotation. That. It is instantly bad. Like I think. The idea now, when you say Nepo nowadays, you have Nepo allegations.
Speaker: Like they are allegations of some kind of criminality. Yeah, okay. Right? And that's what I find interesting because... I think that shows maybe the cultural literacy literacy crisis we're in right now because I don't think that's true.
Speaker: I think you can be. ah Wealthy and make good art. You can be wealthy. You can make bad art. I think class and art. do have some link but not always. Because if it if it were as simple as people were making out like...
Speaker: Whitney Houston would fall victim to the like Nepo baby yeah wars or, you know, whatever. Um, But I think returning to Stella Lefty. Why do you think...
Speaker: She is so hated. Stella Lefty is receiving all of this backlash or whatever you want to call it. Because she had all of this.
Speaker: um support growing up and all of this money and you know ludicrous amounts of wealth. And yet she's kind of done something mediocre with it. And because she comes from money.
Speaker: It like... She can just do whatever. um And. No one, I don't think that anyone has. Critically. told Like, you know, no one has had.
Speaker: Bit. Being able to honestly tell her like, you need to work on this or something like that. Due to. You know. the pressures of. like upsetting her ego and then having her daddy come and tell them off or it's like that time.
Speaker: I'm not going to say that story. Okay. Well, I was just going to say, yeah, it was very interesting me playing you that song for the first time, which is always... Such an interesting thing to... to do like blind react to a very popular.
Speaker: song yeah and your reaction was one of kind of Whatever. Which is so interesting because, like... With some things you can be like, for example... f Fred again. who is someone who comes from wealth. Like, he he lived next to Brian Eno. He would...
Speaker: be close to what we would call nepotism. But... hey he gets a little It gets a little more confusing with him because... I have seen people sit in front of his heart with his art and it's genuinely changed their life. like them going to a set. Like, I don't always get it, but like... some of the stuff he's done more recently where he brings out like grime rappers and puts people on to like the kind of cultural legacy it you know it balances the scales a bit But with Stella, like, she's just so oblivious.
Speaker: She has this genuine belief that like, no, I've... Do you know how she said stuff like, you know, I'm on my phone posting all day. And she means that, right? Isn't that insane? As if that's a fucking job. Like, I do that. Girl, like, you... Like, we're all on our phones. I don't get fucking paid for that. No. And she... That is like, I think that this.
Speaker: You know, this she's literally my age. This woman, unfortunately. Um. has just grown up inside such a bubble. That. No one... Yeah. Has ever like.
Speaker: sat down and being honest. honest with her or allowed her. to have the sort of like critical reflection time. That then. creates Makes a better. makes you a better person and also makes your art.
Speaker: Something. Um, more worthwhile is that you know with like that fred again thing right i think you're like I didn't know that that's kind of where the direction of his art has gone, where he's like. ah recognized that. you know, he's stolen from people or or done whatever, yeah you know, like LARPing in a sort of culture that.
Speaker: wasn't his to begin with And he is using his platform to do... He's putting out Ezra Collective in Kano to perform three wheel ups. Like, that's a very... like British culturally significant moment. And he he is like,
Speaker: putting on artists so And I do think his grime work, like his beats are genuinely quite good. I don't like his house stuff as much. But I think like. Do you think that... Stella Lefty doing country music also adds to the hate.
Speaker: Like, as a genre. Because, like, you know... country is so rooted in. the south and like farm life um also kind of a working class yeah working class like very much roots in you know like bible belt black america like Yeah. And. for her.
Speaker: to be number one from the North. i'm This is a... I'm not... put i'm yeah Yeah. Physically... From the North. Represent. She's if she's she's she's not confederate son. So she's like physically from the north of America.
Speaker: From a wealthy family. And... Like. has never faced any sort of hardship. N - Probably has very soft hands. Never done any physical labor. Yeah, the funny comment's on, like, Boston. She's like, because the first lyric is on a train back to Boston. It's the top comment on the video is like, I bet you good money this woman's never been on a train. Yeah. And, like, if you were a local, you'd be calling it the Amtrak. Yeah. And even I know that. Even I know that. Even I know that.
Speaker: So I just think that she has like. She exists in this world that is totally her own. down to... all of her like you know we were scrolling through her instagram and having a look at her website like Everything has her face on it. Yes. And, you know. Like. from she's also exploiting like a childhood picture of herself as well um which, you know, is a ah conversation for another time. But I think that.
Speaker: That is sort of problematic too. it's It's her trying to kind of provide bona fides. Being like, I was wearing a country bandana when I was there. Yeah, she's like, guys, I've been a kid too. is it You've been a kid.
Speaker: inside a castle. You've been a princess essentially. Like that's what it is. I think it also like. This is another interesting thing, which is like, I think... This is... another reason to help hate so lefty but it's not a reason that makes her a nepo baby because it's like Country artists have...
Speaker: not come from Nashville. all the time. Like Taylor Swift. Like, no. ten literally Literally from there. Like Keith Urban. No, like... um'm Like, I don't know. The band are from Canada. ah The birds are from California. critic What about the bees? Fuck off. We're just going to go to revival from San Francisco. Reba McEntire from Canada. Shania Twain.
Speaker: ah Let me check that actually. I swear she's from Canada as well. Shania. Yeah, Canadian. Yeah, she's from Canada. And so it's it's interesting because it's like that's actually never stopped anyone before from making genuine country music. But I think like... now, you know, country music, what it's evolved into, it's from, it's about the class thing. So it's from like being from, you know, a working class.
Speaker: Historically. area, yeah right? where she hasn't. yeah And, you know, so like... Canada has its own sort of like um redneck culture as well, like Trailer Park Boys. Oh, yeah. What a fucking show. You know, like.
Speaker: Eh... In Australia as well, we kind of have that. I'm pretty sure in the UK, like this is all, you know, in sort of like Western yeah yeah yeah climates, right? um But I just like.
Speaker: It comes off as it's genuinely so inauthentic from her. It's hard to kind of describe. But it's, you know, it's country, but it's I would say it's more pop music than it is country. Yeah, kind of that's another thing. Um, And.
Speaker: you know that sort of genre distinction is a little bit blurry or you know, there's I... didn I just really like my my take earlier where I was like, this is you know high school talent show music. Yeah, that's what it is. But I also think this is what I found interesting. in exploring kind of... People who get Nepo Baby all like allegations. is that Often what accompanies that...
Speaker: is a ring of inauthenticity. to the music So two bands, ah Gracie Abrams and Radio Free Alice. Where do you want to start? Let's do, okay, we've been hating on women so much. Let's go to Radio Free Alice. So last year, Radio Free Alice, there was the whole, they covered triple for like a version of Triple J, Usher. DJ got us falling in love. They did like a post -punk version.
Speaker: And basically in their interview about the song said that it was like a bad song and they made it a good one. Um. The beef about these guys that came out afterwards is that they are all very wealthy. Most of them went to a very wealthy private school.
Speaker: In Sydney, Where did they go? Cranbrook bruh Yeah, they wear their camera twice. And, like, having grown up in the in... in and around that area. Like, I know, that like, I literally know these, like, some of the people in that band, right? And... Then they moved down to Melbourne and like the singer put on a kind of weird voice.
Speaker: And it's all whopping of like Joy Division post -punk. which And there was one take at the time which ah from a friend of mine that I found particularly true, which is like, I think a thing that is particularly jarring for them. you know, the hate.
Speaker: that they got. When they're not nepo babies in traditional sense, they just more came from privilege. yeah like And just had, again, that safety net. But they were getting network but allegations, which again, you know, not... the exact right way to describe it. but Because they are LARPing on an art form that was so defined by class Working class. yeah Opposition.
Speaker: To like Thatcher. time policies. It feels extra jarring. Like, in punk music, when you have these guys who... everyone knows are like transplants to Melbourne, mostly. and went to like very, very wealthy private schools in Sydney. It almost gets really difficult. It's offensive.
Speaker: Kind of. I do find it a bit offensive. Yeah, like... Taking so much. From. that sort of historical you know importance yeah um that's not fun because yeah that music i don't know especially because you know my Yeah, I don't know. I find it...
Speaker: I found it particularly baffling, that interview. But... that's That's like another one. I mean... There are so many other bands that I think this happens to once you kind of pick up this pattern. um And then.
Speaker: Finally, I To return to hate on women a little bit more. Yep. Gracie Abrams. We discussed this riff in the last episode, but her song, Look at My Life. She said all the right things. She went on the podcast. And she was like, look, I recognize my privilege. Like I do my best. And I do think she like means well.
Speaker: Whatever. sure like what like I don't know i don't know had how much more self -flagellating she can do. You know, but like... It is like quite... jarring to listen to her song oh Oh God, look at my life. Bet you can't tell. but it's kind of a bad time like yeah it is kind of hard to tell it's like being You know. Is being depressed on a yacht in Mallorca still being depressed?
Speaker: Like... Ah. i I don't know. about Gracie. Or Grace, because I think Gracie is ah is you know sort of an infantilization of self.
Speaker: Um. You know, which is here and all there. But like. You know, she has... the funds to have a publicist and she is media trained. yeah So she has said all the right things.
Speaker: Because. someone has told her, like she hasn't. Mm. Needed to make the mistake? In order to. say the right thing. yeah Someone just told her.
Speaker: Yeah. um Whereas, you know, that's not. Like. You need to have those thoughts earlier. Yeah, there's no ah there's no like growth, I think, that's happening.
Speaker: Um. If. you have this like safety net and things are happening. I'm not saying that like everything in your life needs to be hard. Um. But. I.
Speaker: think that like
Speaker: Recognizing. that you have grown up. in a very privileged position is part of like the practice yeah i remember reading james blake um wrote a fantastic little piece about his struggles with depression and how he kind of grappled with this existential uh Kind of.
Speaker: These thoughts about, well, like, how how am i how am I depressed? which is like a crazy thought and when he to have, he and he penned this thing, and yeah I felt so bad for him because he was like, you know, I'm relatively... Rich and famous. I'm pretty you know privileged. I grew up, you know. groly fine But he's just...
Speaker: He happens to be preternaturally gifted at like post dubstep and I love him and he's a great DJ and the rest of it. But I think he was like... You know there is nuance here like just because you are wealthy or privileged doesn't mean you can't have access to emotional stories But it is interesting.
Speaker: That. Oftentimes. NEPA allegations are... accompanied by a sense of inauthenticity with the music. but For James Blake, like I don't think anyone would consider his music inauthentic. I think his music is very...
Speaker: authentic and sure he's respected in the scene and and things like that. I wouldn't say the same for like Gracie Abrams or... ah RFA or... Um, Stella lefty. Just yet.
Speaker: so yeah so maybe but you know it's pretty early on in their careers they might you know pick they might get there And, yeah, get there and I might, you know, eat my words. And i'm I've been known to do that. I have been known to change my mind. And that's totally fine.
Speaker: um But right now, what I'm saying is gospel. Yes, what don't you think is gospel? um Absolutely. i I think we should address the elephant in the room which is that most of the conversations we've been having so far have been about women Well... a Yes. um And this, yeah, this is a point that I brought up in our like pre -show. um
Speaker: you know, planning session. Tea and talk. Our tea and talk, you know, as we were wetting our whistle with um some tea. It is, yeah, like a pretty cloudy. drizzly day here in Sydney it's been so weird yesterday around 10 a .m it was 31 degrees And then like in the evening, I think it hit around three o 'clock and it was just like yeah sheets of wind. Yeah. I reckon if you average out the temperature out the week, it's a solid spring, like 23 degrees. ah But it's just oscillating between, which I think is beautiful. That is so beautiful. and
Speaker: Um. back back to the Back to the point about women. Let's talk about the weather. but Let's talk about the weather. well yeah um Bit rainy out, isn't it? but And that just goes to show the further erasure of talking about women in society. Speak on that. immediately like Talking about the weather. but Look. I... yeah it seems like a lot of this criticism a lot of this like negative Um. tropes about like nepo babies and the things that we've been speaking about it is a focused a lot
Speaker: towards women. um And because you... You're not allowed to like, as a woman, not allowed to be seen as trying or. Like... Yeah, just that.
Speaker: There is this inherent... um belief especially a woman in media that like you're going to you're not going to succeed because you're not a man. Um.
Speaker: And, or it's just this like. lack of respect as an artist that I think a lot of women experience that they're even though you know you might... be like 17 years in the industry or something like that.
Speaker: um A man can disagree with you and like every... ah but he's been there for five minutes and it's like, no one has thought. critically about why I have made this decision or or what is happening. but Like there are, you know.
Speaker: Bad. Male Nepo babies as well. You know, we've got like a... is he another baby well he and he's another one where it gets tricky he has quite a very wealthy dad who is in the entertainment.
Speaker: industry The exact connects. I would put him closer. Someone gets kind of... i have I don't know what to think about him because he's quite hated. but I was just going to make a point there, which was that The other kind of weird thing about all in all this discourse is that pop music runs off the back of female labor. yeah In terms of... pop stars primarily being women. And like.
Speaker: does do. kind of precious little to protect them. from these allegations, even though like I do think they're warranted. But it's like... I don't know, it gets a bit murky for me. And whilst we're on the the conversation of... pop girlies like those Some of those women put in so much effort to the shows and the costuming and how everything looks.
Speaker: Unfortunately, I... you know I will say that's something impressive that Taylor Swift does here. Whereas literally people went to a Daniel Caesar show and he wore... boxer shorts. And was like drunk half the time.
Speaker: and you know it was like the same price basically for a ticket And it's just like, you know, it's a. a lack of respect for your work. first of all, and yeah also for like. The people that are come like.
Speaker: You know. They're directly the people that are paying for you to be able to do your job and keep doing it. like you know those are your stakeholders essentially your audience um and where like you know, the somber thing, but the Jax Lossberg, you know, he's from this like.
Speaker: weird now there's a American dynasty. Sombra de Schlossberg. Yeah, Sombra de Schlossberg. You know, he's a Kennedy. um And a hot Kennedy. There was a point a few years ago where I knew several people who were absolutely you know drooling over him. That is true. Or like, you know, before that he ran for the Democratic Party or or something like that.
Speaker: When he was just like a silly little boy posting on TikTok. When he was being a silly guy. He's just like a silly guy who also, you know, comes from a very politically influential family.
Speaker: Um, And like. what What does he have to offer to... the American political conversation. Beyond being a Kennedy. Yeah, like literally nothing. Absolutely nothing. Other than the fact that, you know, he... went to some like...
Speaker: For the Harvard. Oh, he went to Harvard? Yeah, dude, obviously. like Fuck, dude. like Why? And this brings us, I mean... There's actual nepotism going on, which is like, you know, Royal Otis.
Speaker: um otis's uncle is a very famous promoter in the Australian scene who brought a lot of 90s acts to Nirvana, Sonic Youth. A lot of that sort of stuff. And that manages bands. I believe he actually manages Radio Frialis or I did at one point. god I'm pretty sure. And so I guess it's like, it is true to some extent, like both things can be true. I think that the the women we've talked about.
Speaker: can be genuinely like a bit clueless as to their class privilege, but they do cop extra flack because they are women. Um. And that's where I think it gets difficult. And that's as much airtime we'll give Royal Otis. Yes. ah I also but I also think like it just the The whole thing is just so it's it's so confusing and vexed and nuanced to me.
Speaker: Because... I think it's missing the forest for the trees a bit. Because... I think... We are going to keep having these conversations about nepotism. And the reason they are so. popular.
Speaker: oh Oh, he's at the title. is because of driving wealth inequality That is the reason. This is going to keep happening. It is going to keep getting worse. And art is going to be. More and more increasingly only the domain of the wealthy.
Speaker: because of that. Which sort of? like loops into the conversation we were having last week about Suffering for art. um And, you know, there are like.
Speaker: financial burdens and other things that people have to face. which is also... Comes about through like. class privilege. And so... Can you be a nepo baby and make good art if you haven't technically had to suffer?
Speaker: I think so. I think you can. yeah that's And that's the thing where I think it gets nuanced. And then that's why I think... you miss the forest for the trees. Because again, I think Whitney Houston is a great example. Like she's someone who literally had to read through Franklin.
Speaker: The person in the genre that she wanted to be in, on speed dial, and her mum won Grammys in the... you know yeah But I don't think it would be obviously unfair to criticize. Whitney Houston for being a quote unquote nepo baby. Like I do think.
Speaker: in our rush to hate. Online, we can lose nuance. like i I still don't like Stella Lefty's music, and I don't - Fine. Gracie Abrams music authentic. At best, I find it them both, like, pretty boring. Yeah. Like, it's fine. Like, I don't care about it. i Like, it's just not something that's in my...
Speaker: arena ever. I just think there's two macro trends. here that i think we need to look at that i think people are missing in this whole nepo baby maybe discourse because i think We can go on getting mad at these individual artists or we can take stock a bit and try and change our habits. So the first thing I i think is that.
Speaker: To me, this is the logical end. of poptimism. Are you familiar with the phrase poptimism? Can't say that I am. So poptimism was coined by this writer called Khalifa Sané.
Speaker: I actually have his book on the bed there because I was reading his oh before. um He is a... ah ah A really great writer ah for... I believe the New Yorker is a music writer and he coined.
Speaker: Uh... Like, he coined the phrase poptimism. basically As like. a reaction to rockism. So he wrote this whole thing basically being like, Music writers and cultural writers only care about art if it has it falls within the rock tradition and they judge. even pop music by this.
Speaker: um And so it has to be like authentic and this and that and like gritty and whatever and That is not the right way to judge it. And poptimism. is what I would describe as like...
Speaker: The Taylor Swift Defender. kind of ah theory that underpins that. It's that pop music shouldn't be dismissed because it is popular. ah or because it deals with like trivial issues.
Speaker: And also because primarily often it can be written by women. and Yeah. get ah like misogyny in that kind of analysis. But. I think this that was like... this the article was written that I have in front of me you from the New York Times about this is was written in 2014.
Speaker: And I think we've now seen the rise and now fall of Taylor Swift. And I think we're seeing the end of poptimism. I think there was a point in time. ah A few years ago when it was like Iris tour.
Speaker: you know, Chapel Roan. I think Charlie XCX was maybe the dying embers of this. s Sabrina Coppin to... All this sort of stuff. I think... What I need people to realize is that pop music comes out of like one of the most capitalist systems that exists in our society. yeah and you know And we can't expect it to be this liberatory mechanism by which we get endless representation of underrepresented people. Like, that's just... If you want that.
Speaker: Don't go to pop music. I think this is also specifically in like the American pop music conversation. I would agree with you. Where, like, that's what it is. um Whereas... You know, I haven't really noticed this from the like Britpop that yeah I've been into, you know, that I've listened to like.
Speaker: Olivia Dean, um Pink Panther, Ray, where it does seem like. there is something else of substance in there. And I usually, I agree i judge pop music.
Speaker: um on its, like... um not validity, but in it's like, Um. you know. just how good it is. Cultural impact. Yeah. Cultural impact by like, if my dad likes it and he loves Olivia Dean. Um, and I think then like, okay, you know, she's, she's saying something. Yeah. um I mean, Ray especially is tapping into like the old British big band thing with like Shirley Bassey. Yeah. Olivia Dean a little bit as well. And Pink Panther is like a lot of the.
Speaker: uk club sounds like there's a lineage there and they're tapping into it and it also happens to be very, very, very popular. Whereas the American stuff... I don't know, it kind of reflects where the country's at. it's It feels like it's...
Speaker: Bland, reproductive. It's just got veneers, really. Yeah, it's got those big old chompers. gang But I think this is the end of it. like I guess I'm just always surprised when people are like, whoa. My artist signed to a major label and like has like ties to like billionaires and class. It's like, well...
Speaker: if you If this is what you... want out of music. You need to... Like, I know it's it feels like cliche at this point. Support your local scene. Absolutely. Like like if if that's what you actually want, if you are telling me this, like all the people who are hating.
Speaker: On this stuff. Like I don't think. I'm not saying stop hating, but I am saying like... If you want to... if you want to broaden your diet like you can't affect change by not going to the big concerts and going to the smaller ones. Absolutely. um And I think that a lot of what...
Speaker: Our show. preachers anyway is like taking stock of the things that are around you um and there is so much there is so much wonderful pop music Coming out of Australia. that. is You know.
Speaker: It's like underground and it's fun. and They're, you know, like what? Lottie World, some people... Oh, Lottie World, one of the girls. Yeah, Lottie World is... Candy Sound? Yeah, fantastic track. Is one of the greatest pop songs ever written. And like that's what pop...
Speaker: should be. I think. yeah um It's fun. It's catchy. It's cute. Um. And like. that You know, it's it's our own sort of Pink Panther -ification of... of yeah like music and I even think about like Nina Jirachi and stuff it's like I think she's like quite an interesting counterpoint to.
Speaker: Stella Lefty in the sense that it's like... What makes her music interesting is that she's making EDM from a coastal. Yeah. Like she's from the central coast. And, like, this is obviously, we're not saying, Nia Jorati is not an Epo baby. Categorically, no. No. Like, nothing yet. But I guess the point is, is, like... One of the criticisms leveled against Stella Lefty is like You can't make country music if you're from Chicago. And it's like, I I get why you're saying that I just think she's executed it badly I don't think that's technically true I just don't think you can make country music
Speaker: If. You like. haven't maybe experienced any of the like Baseline. is I would call it an issue with execution more than like a principled. one that's my thing which is like there are many reasons to hate still lefty I think the the country stuff is lacking. more of an issue with the way she does it i don't think like Again, just... the history of country music is littered with people who aren't from the South. Yeah. Who managed to make very... But I guess with the point is, is like...
Speaker: You can find music in your area that... musically fulfills the same needs. But it doesn't have to be. tapped into the same big machine. I'm sure that someone's making country music out of like black town. Right. So you can find whatever you like anywhere. Think about, I mean, I, I, in terms of like pop music, blusher, I love, uh, like Australian trio, like, and they're like local, like there's a lot of.
Speaker: I don't know, like, yeah, Lottie will be mentioned. I mean, in terms of, I've seen a lot of great country music in my lo in Sydney. like there's Lots of great folk music. Yeah, like, there's so much stuff, and I think...
Speaker: People... get quite fixated on what the algorithm feeds to them and getting angry at it where it's like if you took a step back you could probably find something more farm to table and then yeah who knows you could be an early investor Absolutely. And ride that shit right to the top. so And, you know, there are other artists as well that we could mention today, but we do have. um you know, contractual obligations with some of them. So probably not.
Speaker: Thanks bro. But yeah, like, you know.
Speaker: Anyone that Sam has a contractual obligation with, right? Like they are great artists. um and uh people that uh I mean, I don't think I'm conflict of interest on this show that we run. Oh, that's true. I think I might. I can say go listen to Sarah Levins and that's fine. Yeah. Unless you like bonk me on the head. You're the only one who can stop the conflict of interest. But it does. I guess it's the final. It just does annoy me sometimes when people are like.
Speaker: So I guess that people are surprised that like big corporation evil. Yeah. That's what it feels like sometimes when people are like, oh my God, this pop star is playing. Like, I mean, people are loving Zara Larson right now, but she was scheduled to perform in like Abu Dhabi.
Speaker: And things like that. It's like. No, she's not going to do that, though. No, but she only it only got cancelled because the Grand Prix going to be cancelled. If it was going ahead, she would have done it.
Speaker: ah Right? And so it's like, that gets complicated because it's like, well, wouldn't you call, you know, with all that backlash there's been against things like, I don't know, the Riyadh Comedy Festival. It's like, you know, pop music isn't ethically pure you anyway. Like, let's...
Speaker: Let's not but i think get hung up on it. Anything that gets that big isn't really ethically pure. That's my thing. Add a bit of distance. It's the nature of capitalism where like in order to get successful, you do have to step on people. and so Your main focus.
Speaker: should be within your community and supporting local artists. um And, you know. There are probably other Nepo people that, like, you know, someone could be a Nepo baby tattoo artist for all I fucking know. like there's yeah The only reason that we're mentioning all these these people is because, yeah, they are. How small it is, the same.
Speaker: Like music. Well, yeah, or just that, you know. their job is like... to be a celebrity and like to have people know them. um And, you know, that that conversation then too, I guess.
Speaker: sort of flows into something that i've been thinking about lot a lot recently of like What does it? what does it mean to be like famous and to be a public figure? Yeah. Right. Where you are sort of re relate relinquishing.
Speaker: Your... privacy. Or, you know, unfortunately, like people are just so invested in your day to day life. Where... You can't just like...
Speaker: do anything or like fuck up or or just like relax Because. you know, you are marketing yourself, what you do is a commodity. um And. Some weird people are really interested yeah because in like what you you do. um You know, where you go to Pilates, what you eat for breakfast. like Who cares? Write that in your diary and then move on. Don't post it online. Think about... um
Speaker: People like like John Mulaney and Nick Kroll, who are... I mean i i love their comedy. I think they're very funny. both Oh, hello. Yeah, from very wealthy families. Both of them are.
Speaker: Um, But I would say that both of them have also done a lot. to kind of be aware of that and kind of give back and like put on other comics. Nick Kroll, Big Mouth is a fantastic show.
Speaker: And it's put on so many comedians. like And John Mulaney as well has like, you know, he had his variety show for a while. He comes back to SNL. and there's like you know there's a kind of a mentorship thing coming on and it's like I don't know. What's been interesting all discourse about never babies this is how people are kind of like.
Speaker: Well, no one who is ever wealthy can ever make any good art. Which isn't probably true. Like, Julia Louise Dreyfuss is from the fucking Dreyfuss family, which is one of the... richest like historical families of all time. But we love Elaine from Seinfeld. Hmm. It does get complicated, is my point. It's the same in like the British comedy scene where a lot of...
Speaker: um maybe like our parents' generation's favorite. British comics. And house. And mine. Oh, yeah. I love house. are all, you know, they all did like comedy writing at Cambridge. Yeah, Cambridge Footlights. Yeah, you know, Hugh Laurie, Stephen Fry. You're looking at the world's biggest Hugh Laurie fan right here. And yes he's like, I mean, they're all, yeah. Brian Laurie. Yeah. which is mit Yeah. That they all like. Olivia Colman. Yeah. I think that, you know, that's a, an example of like.
Speaker: These people that have grown up with access. to the arts. and things extra to you know the day -to -day going to school life. where you are supported through your extracurricular activities, which means that.
Speaker: You. Have. the freedom to be able to explore in that respect. And then the other thing as well with with Britain, which has such an entrenched class system, is like that well some of them didn't grow up wealthy and then got into Cambridge because they're very smart and then got into the footlights. I guess it's just with all this, I wish that... there was a bit of, as with all things, a bit more nuance because...
Speaker: I don't know I just so like when you read the comments. Like the fact that like someone like Dane was getting. Nepo allegations. which was spread by a Like bass victim and a man.
Speaker: like it just can get It can be weaponized in a way that is very unhelpful. High five. This brings you on to the second point, which is... Class consciousness. Yes. Comrades. um I think we can all keep getting mad at Nepo babies. There will be more.
Speaker: There will be more. And there will be people who we both feel that don't deserve any sort of fame whatsoever. Just because, you know. they're wealthy like that's it yeah but in today's attention economy Giving them that airtime. does nothing but help. yeah Even if it's hate.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, because you're still giving them more. clicks and exactly you know whatever whatever the kids are on these days. So it's like, I think I just wish that people... Instead of... focusing on the individual like took it again again took a bit of a step back and and we're like well you know,
Speaker: Am I going to put my money where my mouth is here and I'm going to... support like maybe maybe it's like if you are if you are donating to If you have a Spotify subscription and you listen to a lot of pop music, but like you understand that like that's something you like aesthetically.
Speaker: but you understand that it has like an element of evilness to it like Think about, like... you know, donating to a local theater. or like community radio or you know anything like that like i think Think about yourself as a big corporation investing in carbon offsets. Yes, you need to carbon offset your life. For every... View on this video we will Plant a tree.
Speaker: And the good thing is is that is as trustworthy as any carbon offset scheme. Absolutely. That is as any any carbon offset scheme. They can just say that. And they don't have to plant a tree. Or it's the same way. I just, it's another. This is just making me think about when you go to the shops and they're like, oh, would you like to round up your purchase?
Speaker: um to donate to someone. You're just asking me to pay you back for money you already donated. Yeah, you're going in for a tax ride. Yeah. I was like... Fuck you. No. ill I'll donate myself, thank you. You know, Woolies has an AI bot now.
Speaker: What? Like it. it Oh, on the website. Yes, I used it. The AI bot. Oh, my God. i was like It was fucking horrific. like I am. No, I actually want to keep using Woolies Delivery, so I'm not going to say that. And do you know, Olive, the AI bot, is the son of the Woolies green bag.
Speaker: It's a NepoBot. Did you know that? i did you know that i hate it's actually this did you know that actually My dog, Otis, is my son. So he's a nepo dog.
Speaker: Whoa. All right. He gets access to traits and pads. Mm hmm. And like, what did he do to own that? Think about that. He did nothing. He just had access and he's not at once acknowledged his privilege, I would say. My sister is A nepo baby. in my friend group. She wouldn't know those people no unless she was my sister.
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. um I would say. what's What's another Nepo, baby? i am Are you a Nepo in any of your areas of your life? um I've not gone into the industries that my parents were in. So I just.
Speaker: At this point in my career, no. Yeah, could it could be coming. Exciting. Yeah. Exciting things. We could nepo later on. Could nepo. But like at this point in my life, no, unless I was.
Speaker: A nepo. It. You know, doing basketball because my dad. Oh. i I was a nepo at a Brickfield's Cafe in Chippendale for a bit wow because my friend worked there and would give me free biscuits. Oh, I've been a nepo at so many jobs. Is that nepotism? Well, yeah. If a friend like gets you a job at their job. like that's That's nepotism and you should be held to account for that. Oh, fuck. We're checking your privilege. Your job at Boost Juice is problematic. Let's talk about it. To close this episode out.
Speaker: It's time for us to... Sorry, I just got killed. Oh, no, Kate's died. It's time to give our top three Nepo babies. Okay. Okay? Because... I think the point of this is that we need to hold space yeah for the fact that.
Speaker: coming here Do we want to hold space? Oh, wait. du No, no, no. What's the... What what do they do? what are they She's like this. Oh, oh that's weird. I don't like that. Yeah, because that was... What's her name? Cynthia Erivo. Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande. We need to hold space for the fact that sometimes...
Speaker: Being a Nepo baby can still mean you're good at your job. Okay? This is not a pro NEPA baby podcast. Not an empty one, it's just somewhere in the middle. Yeah, we're, you know... We're centrists at heart. I feel like we've offered both sides of the argument. Yes. Impartiality. And so now we're just going to to close it out. Close out top three.
Speaker: Let's do top three Nepo babies. Top three Nepo babies. I want everyone to know before this Kate had to think for a very long time. Nepo babies are hard to love, man. Hard to love. Okay. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna roll with it. Roll with it, go. Number one.
Speaker: Jack Quaid. Because I... but Saw him at Watson's Bay Hotel. And I was like. What the fuck? um But, you know, he's got an Australian wife. And so I respect that. um Number two.
Speaker: I've already spoken about her. Oh, you know what? I loved her performance in Nosferatu. So I'm going to say Lily Rose Depp. Okay. Fantastic. um Another one. is...
Speaker: um Cooper Hoffman. Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. He was in that PTA movie, Licorice Pizza. He's recently in another movie that's about like kinks and stuff that I haven't seen yet. so But no, I think he's great. he um There's a clip of him on some podcast or whatever with James Gandolfini's son. And he's like, I feel like we're not part of the Nepo baby conversation because like.
Speaker: Both of our dads are dead. And like those were the famous ones. I was like. Fuck, that's a really great way to deal with grief. Hey. ah That's beautiful. Yeah, it was beautiful. Okay, and now Sam. Okay. My top three number of babies.
Speaker: Okay. Coming in. Actually, actually I need to need to go back in. Oh, you've got a list? I do. have a little I would just to refresh my memory because I do have a couple. Okay. um My top three Nepo babies. Yep. Coming in at number one, this is...
Speaker: My top three never babies in no particular order. No particular order. Um... The Gyllenhaals, Maggie and Jake, they come from a ah an acting family. What? Yes. they are ah Their parents are both like old Hollywood actors.
Speaker: See ya, buds. Brilliant actors. I love... Maggie Gyllenhaal in Secretary is one of the freakiest movies you'll ever see. It's so good. Her and James Spader getting real freaky with it. yeah That's really good.
Speaker: Um... Number two, Brooklyn Beckham. um His photography book. Where he takes the photo of the elephant that's blurry, and he's like, he an elephant. It was kind of blurry, but... You could tell. i'm Unreal. No notes. I'm so mad that we haven't. spoken about him at all this episode until now.
Speaker: he's He's so beautiful. He's like prime Nepo realness. Yeah, it's he's absolutely realness. I mean, the fact that he was like, my mom was whining upon me at my wedding. Yeah, Brooklyn Beckham, ah number two. ah Number three, I'm going to go Zoe Kravitz. yeah She's cool still. um You know, Lenny's cool. yeah um I...
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's sick. Isn't she technically Jason Momoa's step - Kid? Yes. Yeah. Because he's dating her mom. Wow. So yeah, she's cool. ah ah So those are my top three.
Speaker: That's a pretty good top three. Well, that about rounds up yeah our Nepo Baby chat. I still - In the end, I think, obviously, mostly evil. um like I think the top three proved that. Like, you know, yeah I don't want to go out of my way to support a nepo baby. No, I don't think that.
Speaker: My... opinion on nepa babies has changed at all no i think that now you know my my mind is open to Maybe some more shitty music that I just haven't listened to before and I never will. so I think. What becomes clear in all of this is like.
Speaker: Why? Just don't expect... Liberation from pop music. Expect hits. And... The problem is with Stella Lefty, he's not given this one.
Speaker: Nope. Nope. well She just got famous from TikTok. She got famous. she And she didn't know who Noah Khan was, even though she'd posted 28... TikTok's covering his song. And I think that's beautiful. She probably was one of those people that had only ever like read his name and was like Noah Kahan.
Speaker: You know? And with that. like Have a good day. What does that mean? You can't end on that note. But... As in like... You know.
Speaker: she wasn't aware it's like you know you there's a word in a book that you read She was like, oh, that's interesting. And then she sung his song 28 times and then he interpolated it. Yeah. She like didn't know how to say his name or anything about him. She's just like, wow, I like this song.
Speaker: That's it. Well. When you go out there. Try and be a nepo in little ways throughout your own life is what I'd say. you know Fight the power. Fight the power. And I think that you should nepotize more in your community. nepatize average your Leverage your position for social good. Yes. Yes. Yes. Great. great um So thank you all for listening. ah Drop a comment.
Speaker: ah below, wherever you're listening. or watching. We have, you know, ever nepotized you in some way. Yes, or or drop but your favorite nepo baby. And I hope. but Kate, after this you go back to your trade back in Boston.
Speaker: And he's gonna not end me. This has been Popularity Contest. We may or may not be back next week because I am covering... breakfast radio, and I have no idea how sleepy I'll be, but...
Speaker: Love you. have a good but Have a good day.
