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George Kenney - Hypnotist
20 Plays2 months ago
Nylene shares the horrifying story of a small town in Florida, and how the actions of a high school principal left questions about the deaths of several students.
Enter the Nightmare for show notes, sources, transcripts, and more!
Music: Ghosts I-IV by Nine Inch Nails, licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License
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Transcript
Introduction to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we explore history, mysteries, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:47
Speaker
disturbing and mature content to follow He definitely has Ace's manipulations um down pat, but he makes, he has my tail, which is my face.
00:01:05
Speaker
Really, really bad at, I don't know, I just like lose track of the lies so fast. Yeah, no, I've seen his face. It's kind of the the look down, shy smile, like caught. Yeah, it's my favorite because I'm like, are you lying? And he just like looks down. He goes, no.
00:01:26
Speaker
And I'm like, all right. This your last chance. And he goes okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because he knows he's going to lose privileges. Yes, he does. He does. Losing privileges is like the worst thing in the world for him. Right.
00:01:41
Speaker
And it's, I think it's just the concept of it. Like he does it is no he doesn't care what it is. Actually, he does. If, if we tell him he can't have his bedtime book, oh my gosh, his day is ruined.
00:01:53
Speaker
I'm the same way, though. If I don't have my bedtime book, I will scream. Sometimes you need a bedtime book. Always.
Humorous Gardening and Pet Tales
00:02:01
Speaker
What have you been up to? Failing at gardening. Oh, what? What do you mean? Your stuff looks good. It looks all, like, nice and cleaned up. Oh, I mean, it's because I haven't I haven't done as much as I would normally do by now. And that's fine because I usually go way too fast and get too much too soon. and And I feel like the weather has been like a huge – that sounds so dumb to say. But it's been like a huge impact because like we've had like three different false starts, right, to yeah just spring already. For sure, yeah.
00:02:32
Speaker
Aside from from being behind on on what I normally do, I've also – Murdered some plants. Well, my mom corrected me, actually. I didn't murder them. She called it negligent herbicide. Oh, my Yeah. What did you do to them?
00:02:49
Speaker
ah Well, I told you I started all those seeds. Yes. It just didn't water him enough. ah Yeah. So i my I used a different seed starting setup than I normally use. And you had a heat lamp and everything. Oh, no, no, no Not that. i mean, the the tray and the pellets and stuff. Oh, got it.
00:03:07
Speaker
the The medium itself. And the one I used previously, it was a lot more forgiving and instructive. Like it gave more specific instructions. And I did that thing that happens when you get too confident about the thing and you're like, oh, I got this. And then you just pretend like it's easy. No, I got this because I know what I'm doing. No, it's not easy. You have to still do it, dumbass. So anyways, I'm murder. No, I negligently herbicide my seedlings. That sounds like a really cool band name. Negligent herbicide.
00:03:38
Speaker
That sounds like a death metal stoner band. I like it. Up next, it's a negligent herbicide.
00:03:50
Speaker
Sorry. No, no. Got you excited there. No, no. No such thing. I killed something else, or negligently herbicide, something else, but I don't remember what. So is this your way of telling me that I should not expect a bunch of extras from you? Because you said. i know I did. And I quote, I will have so much shit left over. So if you want anything, just let me know.
00:04:11
Speaker
Well, the thing is, is I'm... Hi, baby. Yes, hello, Grim. I'm no quitter, and I also have a problem, so I will definitely be doing another trade, but I'm going to buy the kind that I had before and do what I know. and it it wasn't the fault, really, of the other one. It was just that I i wasn't as attentive as I should have been. Anyways, it was a bummer.
00:04:29
Speaker
was really excited about all that calendula. That was the catnip. I can't find catnip to buy anywhere, and I fucked up all my seeds, so... You hear that? I know. You're going to be all out of nip. Oh, no We'll find it. i got you covered, baby.
00:04:43
Speaker
She's got the underground nip connections. It's part of the catnip mafia. What about you? What have you been doing?
Spring Cleaning and Personal Updates
00:04:52
Speaker
So like a lot of cleaning, like, ironically enough, you know, going the spring cleaning route and.
00:04:58
Speaker
I've been also cleaning up the site and trying to make everything just a lot a little bit more streamlined so we can make things easier because, you know, life is already hard enough. Life is ah so hard. But yeah, I've been um hanging out with Bashy a lot.
00:05:13
Speaker
And also we finally got our first mow of the season in. And then ironically, after that, Fern decided that she was going to eat one of my sprinklers. So i will have to go fix that, which is not hard. It's just annoying to have to like go do it.
00:05:32
Speaker
But yeah, been doing that and then finally getting my first blooms of the season. Yay. Because I planted those irises. I planted them, i think, about two years ago because it wasn't last year. It was the year before. last The fall before. This is their first bloom. Yes, this is their first bloom. And I'm so excited because I really didn't think they were going to because Fern's been like trampling them to get to my rocks. Yeah. So because she's been chewing on rocks.
00:05:58
Speaker
Always an adventure. And that's been fun. But like, I don't think she has like Pika or anything. I really think she's like, it's because she's teething. She has so many new teeth coming in. I feel so bad for her She's just, so I did go and get her, um, cause I was giving her those collagen.
00:06:16
Speaker
They're like collagen rolls. They're not rawhides or collagen rolls. Mm-hmm. She just goes through them way too fast, but it was helping her not chew on rocks. So I went and got her a deer antler and she, oh my gosh, she's been carrying it around the house. She's so happy. So it was her first, her first bone that she got. Oh God.
00:06:33
Speaker
um That we've been letting her have outside. bernie ferns Sweet baby ferns. Yeah. What else? We're going on a trip together. we're going on adventure.
00:06:47
Speaker
So yeah, we'll have spooky travels to talk about soon. That'll be fun. Hopefully we will get to see lots of cool places. i checked the weather. It's supposed to be really, really nice. Oh, nice.
00:06:59
Speaker
It'll be nice for strolling through the
The George Kenney Hypnosis Controversy
00:07:01
Speaker
cemetery. Yes. I'll bring my bougie stroller so I can just put Bashi in there and let him nap the day away. Nice. Nice. I was actually going to ask how you felt about that, about him coming with us to cemetery stuff. I wasn't sure how, if if you had any kind of an opinion about that.
00:07:18
Speaker
No, I mean, death is part of life and. Yeah. Yeah. You know, i don't see anything wrong with taking him there. I don't either. I've never considered a lot of things about how to introduce kids to things. Neither have I. i you know a like You know, I didn't grow up around any other kids. Like I was always the youngest. And so witnessing you raise bash is the first time I've seen a lot of this and considered a lot of it. Like I'm thinking about things I've never thought about before that I don't really have to worry about. But it makes me curious.
00:07:47
Speaker
how you approach you know so you and me every day just take the moment as it comes and i mean like it could be one of those situations where like we come to the day and it's like you know what this is not a good day for this he's just already yeah in a place this is not going end well then that's different cut your losses but he's he's a hit or mess kid oh he's always a hit i love that kid
00:08:15
Speaker
Today i want to talk about the case of George Kenney. I'm not sure if you've heard anything about this guy yet. Have you? um Actually, yes. I saw your notes and I found a documentary. Oh, nice. Did you watch the HBO one? It was on AMC, I think, or Shudder. I don't know. It was one of those things. I did have some notes from that one as well. Not as many.
00:08:37
Speaker
i felt that one was really sad. It was so sad. Which like fair enough with everything that happened. So, hey, sorry. Hi, everyone. We're just talking. Yeah, I got this thing that that none of y'all know anything about this story. Sorry. So it's look into my eyes.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yes, that was a true crime story. Look into my eyes. I've seen this one, too. It's very emotional, very based on the victim side with a little bit of George Kenney side. But we'll talk we'll talk a little more about this. So let's get started. Okay.
00:09:12
Speaker
George Kenney was a normal average guy. He'd been working in the education system for a long time. And most recently, he'd been a principal at the North Port High School in Sarasota County, Florida.
00:09:24
Speaker
Because of course it's Florida. yeah Between 2006 and 2011. No offense, Florida, but you guys have like the craziest crime. if you have family in Florida? I do.
00:09:35
Speaker
i do. That's how I know. He was known to really care for his students, and he was heavily involved in helping them advocate for their future, ah their career, their life goals, really thinking about things that this poor community didn't really usually think about.
00:09:54
Speaker
Because it was like a real small town, right? Like ah everybody knows everybody. Correct. Yeah, it was everybody knows everybody's small town and everything was, you know, very small town and it stayed that way. And you'd live there and you died there and that was it.
00:10:09
Speaker
He was actually, you know, doing really well for these kids. He'd introduced some after school clubs, some AP courses, an art center. He held job fairs and and he did just anything he could that he thought would really help these kids succeed.
00:10:23
Speaker
But because of this, George was always looking for the next great thing that could really propel his students to the next level. What did George land on? Hypnotism. You knew the answer this time. I know. I feel weird. I cheated. Like, i I've never actually, i usually don't even know what your topic is going to be before you do it. And I i feel very sheepish. No, no. This is good. um I like it.
00:10:51
Speaker
George had seen a hypnotist perform recently where a shy child was made to bravely dance in front of an audience and Another kid who was normally a slacker was instantly able to do complex math equations. So this sparked George's interest in learning the art of hypnotism. In 2009, George decided to take a class led by famous hypnotist Jerry Klein and Hans Rudy Witt. I cannot say that name correctly, I'm sure.
00:11:21
Speaker
For $3,000, George got to spend a week learning the basics of hypnotism and the laws of practicing in each state. And with this and his 30 years of working with kids, George felt that he was ready to test out his newly acquired talents.
00:11:39
Speaker
Kids, this is why regulation exists. This is exactly why regulation exists. um His first test subject was Mike. Mike had come from a rough home situation.
00:11:51
Speaker
He was going to school, he was working two jobs to help provide for his family, and even with that, he was falling behind on bills. Mike had been working hard to get into the Marines, but recently, he'd developed a tick, a head twitch, followed by a grunt.
00:12:06
Speaker
Due to all of the stress he'd been dealing with at home, the ticks were getting worse. The more stressful the situation, the worse they would get. So it was looking like Mike was going to have a hard time enlisting with the Marines.
00:12:18
Speaker
So George did what any reasonable principal would do. He hypnotized the ticks away. And it worked. At this point, were the parents aware?
00:12:30
Speaker
Yes. Okay. But Mike kind of came from like a really rough home where it was like a single family home kind of situation. And they wouldn't have cared Single family, single parent home is what I meant to say. Yes. Right. Yeah. Correct. Correct.
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah. And not because of, you know, necessary negligence, but because of priorities. Correct. you know Yes. So, yeah, I mean, it it ended up working. Mike stopped ticking. He made it into the Marines. Everything was golden.
00:12:56
Speaker
So George sees this as a huge win and he's looking for his next test subject to prove that his new skill works. Enter Eric. Eric was looking at a full ride to Florida A&M on scholarship.
00:13:08
Speaker
If he could just get his SAT t scores up, he could get in. So George hypnotized him into somehow doing better. i don't really know. Maybe focus harder.
00:13:20
Speaker
And Eric did. He improved by 189 points on the next test and he qualified for the scholarship. So George has proven this works and he can use these powers for good, right?
00:13:31
Speaker
So why not? It does seem like. You know, i've I've learned this cool new magic trick and it's doing nothing but good. And as an educator, don't you learn about psychological effects on kids or like how long ago was this?
00:13:47
Speaker
This was in a like 20, 20 times. OK, so they know between 2006 and 2011. OK, so there's there's been guidelines on that shit forever now. So that does seem a little rocky.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah. But I mean, with parent parental, whatever, keep going. No, I want to I want to listen to it. I just I mean, I feel like with parental. Approval. It seems on the up and up. Like, I can see where it would feel okay. If he's representing himself appropriately, yes. If he is representing himself appropriately, yeah. But at the same time, like...
00:14:22
Speaker
Let's really think about it this way. Should a principal be no hypnotizing students? Or like if you're if anyone's going to hypnotize students, right?
00:14:33
Speaker
Like maybe like the school nurse or sure yeah that's like point a an athletics coach or something. I'm not saying like, hey, you guys should take this up. I'm just saying like... There'd be a more qualified person. Yes, exactly. that That's the way I was looking at it. But he he sees in his mind that he's got this, you know, decades of educator experience as well as this $3,000 certification, which means everything, right? That makes you a medical doctor, right? Right, right. Which is so funny because they did start calling him Dr. Kenny. Oh.
00:15:07
Speaker
And that was heavily scrutinized later on because technically he he did get like a doctorate. Right. He had a PhD in something, right? I don't remember what it was, but it's not medicine. No, it's not. It's not medicine. Or psychology. No, it's not psychology. No. That is correct.
00:15:27
Speaker
So the project that they, that, that he ends up starting that comes from this, they call it project potential. Okay. Feels a little culty, but all right. I know there was so much of the school that felt a little culty.
00:15:40
Speaker
In small towns, sometimes that just it doesn't. It's not on purpose. It's just it's you. Everything's incestuous. Yeah. For a lack of a better term. Right. yeah I don't I don't mean like they're literally. Yeah. But everybody is in the same social circle and and all you know is each other. And where's the outside influence? I'm not trying to say anything.
00:16:05
Speaker
You're good. Like you said, it starts to feel a little culty, right? So George decides. Which I will say I did not pick up from that documentary at all, actually. Really? Yeah. that's But I was just, I listened to it. I didn't really watch it Got it. yeah Yeah. I just feel like for me, what ended up feeling culty with that documentary, and this could just be my inner...
00:16:27
Speaker
my inner child seeing the red flags that I didn't see when I was younger, know, in my own whatever. It's how, it's just how naive sometimes, you know, we seem as, as children, as teenagers. And, you know, they even repeat this in the documentary where they're like, you know, you're, you're 16, 17. You think, you know, everything you think, you think, you know, like everything. And you have no question that,
00:16:55
Speaker
What you want to do for yourself is the correct thing to do. And, you know, that's where those really bad decisions come from. That's where, you know, oh, I don't need to listen to my mom and my dad. I'm almost 18.
00:17:08
Speaker
your Your brain is still just developing, though. Anyway, George starts hypnotizing everyone. He did one on one sessions with teachers looking to pass professional exams. He was doing it with students who are working on like getting better grades or athletic goals.
00:17:22
Speaker
He was hypnotizing the parents to help them with like their vices at home. Just everyone was getting hypnotism, you know, whatever. Right. You get a hypnotism. You get hypnotism. It was working good for a while. You know, everyone was having a good time and the They were acing their AP test and suddenly the school that was like the lowest in the county was just doing really, really, really well. And same thing with their sports program. Like they were just having a really good Disney movie time. I just realized what the story is.
00:17:53
Speaker
This is the story of the village witch that makes everything better for everybody. And then one little thing goes wrong and then the whole town lynches her. One million percent. That is exactly how this happens.
00:18:06
Speaker
And yes, we'll talk more about that. Okay. Like you said, Village Witch and all, right? There was some weirdness going on Kenny was having sessions during field trips. He was doing it on the entire sports team or groups all at one time.
00:18:23
Speaker
He was doing demonstrations in the school psychology class as part of the curriculum, which is insane. Yeah. In 2009, he accompanied JROTC group of about 60 students to an event in Orlando.
00:18:37
Speaker
One of the nights on this trip, George, who I remind you is the principal, he invites these students to his hotel room for an 8 p.m. hypnosis session.
00:18:48
Speaker
Oh. Yes. You don't go to a teacher's hotel room. Nope. Ever. Nope. Never. Never, ever. If you're ever invited, decline. Decline and call your parents or someone you trust yes immediately.
00:19:02
Speaker
But there
Impact and Consequences of Hypnosis Practices
00:19:03
Speaker
ends up being about 20 students in this hotel room. And they're all with him sitting all over the room wherever they can. And George starts hypnotizing the kids in mass.
00:19:14
Speaker
He put music on. He asked the students to close their eyes and imagine they were falling down into a deep tunnel. I want to tell everybody real quick that is getting the same ooky feelings I'm getting right now, that in the documentary, they actually have video of this. So it is.
00:19:28
Speaker
hmm. actually this and not weird sexy times just yes just so you just because I just you tell I know the story and you telling the story I'm feeling ooky like like this older guy is in the room yeah a bunch of younger it doesn't get sexual and there is video we come to find which is weird because he said it was deleted at one point on record yeah and then they had a bunch of it So I don't really know how that works out.
00:19:55
Speaker
But anyways, he put music on and he asked the students to close their eyes and imagine they were falling down into a deep tunnel. One student noted they heard a ticking sound before they fell into a state of deep relaxation.
00:20:08
Speaker
At this point, one of the kids recalls George telling him he wanted the students to be safe and have a good day. That they should keep their eyes closed and that he would be passing an item around.
00:20:22
Speaker
That he should put this item on their mouth to protect their lips. Your face. I know. i felt the same way when I was listening to this. It's so creepy. George also gives the direction that all of their room numbers would be in a foreign language from here on forward.
00:20:38
Speaker
Because remember, they're in a hotel room and in a hotel building, right? Yeah. Yeah. By themselves, which is horrible. The next thing this kid remembers is he woke up in his hotel room and he couldn't remember how he'd gotten back here.
00:20:52
Speaker
A quote from the student's testimony. When I woke up in the morning, i went to the bathroom to shave, to get ready for the competition, and I noticed there was red lipstick on me.
00:21:03
Speaker
i was nervous. i was afraid of involvement at the time. There was a lot going on after that. Being so young, i was kind of intimidated by it, afraid to talk to my parents about it, and I didn't want anyone to know. I felt embarrassed.
00:21:17
Speaker
He said he didn't report this to anyone for years after. And the student went on to confess that George was, quote, very intimidating and that, quote, he didn't feel safe or comfortable around him knowing what he had done to him.
00:21:30
Speaker
So three other students actually came forward on record claiming to have been hypnotized from this event as well. One of them claimed to have gotten lost for about an hour and he wasn't able to read the signs and room numbers around the hotel.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yes. I feel like I missed all of this in the the thing. i I was listening while i was working. Yes. That's why when you said you were going to watch that one after I'd like, gone I was like, that's fine. Because it gets a very different side and it paints a very different picture, which I'll talk more about here in a second. Yeah. That's real fucking dark, though. Yes. So basically, he was doing the whole.
00:22:09
Speaker
I don't know if if any of y'all experienced this, but like like they had, I think it's called Powder Puff Day or something. And it's where like the cheerleaders would like dress up like the football players and the football players would dress up like the cheerleaders. I've heard of this, yes.
00:22:25
Speaker
So that's what a lot of his hypnotism involved. It involved getting the guys like, well, you know, outside of like healing them and their one-on-one sessions when he was doing the group sessions, it was more of a like, I'm going to make these three guys quack like a duck. Oh, look, they're all quacking like a duck or I'm going to make them put lipstick on, which is what he had them do.
00:22:45
Speaker
One of the students actually claimed to have gotten lost for about an hour as he was unable to read the signs and the room numbers around the hotel. So because they were in a foreign language. Yes. Apparently they were in a foreign language. He stated, quote, I was seeing Chinese lettering, the weird lines and all.
00:23:04
Speaker
I felt confused. It was kind of hard to handle at first. It was just really confusing. end quote He also noticed that he was wearing pantyhose, had red lipstick on, and had somehow gained money in his pockets that he didn't have at the start of the night.
00:23:18
Speaker
I would be very concerned. Right? Exactly. So he claims he actually still struggles with his memory years later due to this quote-unquote session. um His testimony actually has him quoted as saying...
00:23:32
Speaker
I have moments of time where I will completely forget about everything that I'm doing. And this started happening after high school, where I'll be working and completely forget about what I'm doing, how to do the things that I'm doing, like simple things. I'll completely forget what I'm doing and walk away from it. And then the next couple of hours, I'll be like, oh, I forgot that.
00:23:52
Speaker
And I'll just slip into a state of unawareness, just kind of blank minded. Which in all fairness, like... I do this, you know, and like it could be an absent-minded thing. It could be ADHD. It could be getting older. Disassociating. Yeah. I disassociate. I mean, who who doesn't? And I also feel like, I mean, i'm I'm not like negating that this could be from the hypnosis, but it could also be a trauma response as well. Yeah.
00:24:20
Speaker
Look at me. Diagnosing. Just kidding. I'm not a doctor. I'm not diagnosing ever. So don't listen to me. I'm wrong. Me too. All right. So there was actually one specialist that provided their findings on this case. um His name is Dr. Alan Waldman. And he claims that because the teenagers don't fully have developed brains, they would not only be easier to hypnotize, but that the damage could actually be greater if you don't know what you're doing. So...
00:24:51
Speaker
All this to say, you know, kind of what you were alluding to earlier. I'm not here to shame people for trying to learn things on their own outside of a formal school. But I do believe there's something to be said for like natural curiosity and and learning on the job. But when it involves kids, mental health, responsibility for the well-being of hundreds of people, you should definitely know what you're doing and and go through those formal avenues and and their approved training.
00:25:18
Speaker
You know, as the principal of the school, I feel like he's frequently been, you know, quote, the smartest guy in the room kind of thing. He probably. It's probably a lot of ego, like, yeah, like like I'm playing God. I'm making these people better.
00:25:36
Speaker
I am great. Look at what I can do. Let me do more. And it kind of feels like that after a while. It kind of feels like it turns into like a parlor trick. at first. And then in private, it's like, let me be your, your healer. Let me, I want to reach these kids. say How do I reach these kids?
00:25:59
Speaker
ah If you know, you know. But yeah, like I was saying, like making sure that, you know, you're going through the right avenues. It ensures that these practitioners not only know how to like hypnotize people, but also like the moral,
00:26:12
Speaker
And ethical responsibilities involved in making sure that things are being done safely for everyone. Right. yeah And in all the time that he was hypnotizing people, not once did he inquire about any of the students' mental health, their medical history, what medications they might be taking.
00:26:32
Speaker
He didn't warn them that there could be any adverse effects like after whatever he was doing.
00:26:39
Speaker
Well, he probably thought that he was so good at it that there wouldn't be any adverse effects. Yeah, which obviously is a problem. Correct. So we're going to fast forward a bunch of hypnosis sessions later, and we're going to focus on a few specific students that George hypnotized.
00:26:55
Speaker
The first being Marcus Freeman. He was 16 years old. He was the JV high school quarterback, and he was regularly being treated by George to help him play through the pain that he was experiencing, which...
00:27:08
Speaker
The ethical violation there is insane. Marcus was also working towards becoming varsity quarterback to help with his you know collegiate goals. And George would also tell him that he could help him, quote, see things more slowly on the field so he could react better.
00:27:26
Speaker
i can make you be Spider-Man? Pretty much. Exactly. Exactly what he did. So somehow everyone felt that this was completely normal because everyone knew that was the worst part. Everyone knew what was happening.
00:27:41
Speaker
Because they live in this magical small town with this magical witch that's making everybody better magically. Correct. And suddenly, you know, and like you said, this is the principal. This is the leader of the school. He's leading this process and they're winning games. Right. And and they're they're suddenly doing amazing. So no harm, no foul. Right.
00:28:02
Speaker
Well, on March 15th, 2011. Isn't that like isn't that like. Some kind of conflict of interest in sports. Is that like a performance enhancing drug? like That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, that's like, i I do wonder what the rules are. Like, I kind of want to look at the Olympic rules. You know what?
00:28:19
Speaker
Wow. So there are no specific public Olympic rules banning hypnosis as it's considered a legitimate mental training and sports technology tool used to improve focus, confidence, and visualization.
00:28:36
Speaker
Shit. So long story short, it's totally fine to do that. But yeah, i feel like that would be like a performance enhancement. But I mean, I guess you're kind of, see, pain is there for a reason. Yeah. It's okay to make it like go away for a second so that you can, you know, relax and get to a good place, but not to play through the pain because it's kind of telling you that for a reason. Right.
00:28:59
Speaker
That's how people have knee problems for their entire life because they did too much in high school. Yes. Too much knees. Too much knees. I over-kneed Get it? Because kneading, you over-kneed it. now oh I get it. I get it. yeah get it. I am funny. you are funny.
00:29:20
Speaker
Nightmare Cottage at gmail.com. Tell me I'm funny. Validate me. I need it Thank you. put Validating Nylene in the subject line. Yes, please. so anyways, um on March 15th, 2011, Marcus was driving home from the dentist.
00:29:36
Speaker
His girlfriend is in the passenger seat along for the ride, which, okay.
00:29:43
Speaker
Okay, Derry. When day have you gone to the dentist and had to get a procedure done and then driven yourself home? Or do you have somebody else drive you?
00:29:54
Speaker
That's pretty standard. it's Right? like and Because you might get gassed, right? Exactly. You might get gassed or whatever pain medication. I never know what we're going in for. like It's the the appointment I scheduled. So is it the cleaning? Is it something else? don't know. Just I'm going for vibes.
00:30:11
Speaker
For vibes. Well, anyway, sorry. so Marcus was driving home from the dentist. He had just called his parents to let them know that he had finished and they were heading back to the house.
00:30:26
Speaker
His girlfriend claims that suddenly he got a strange look on his face and it started with him zoning out. And then his eyes started rolling back into his head. She was in the car with him. Yes, she was in the passenger seat. Why wasn't she driving? That's what I that's literally what I just said.
00:30:43
Speaker
Sorry. Are you caught up now? I am caught up now. Are you here? Okay, good. Hi. So, yes. What I was saying was like, yeah, she's in the passenger seat. He's the one that just got like a dental procedure done. Like he got like a cavity. But do we know why she was not?
00:31:00
Speaker
driving I don't know. It was his car. That's only thing we know. So his girlfriend claims that like suddenly he got the strange look on his face. He started zoning out and his eyes started rolling back into his head.
00:31:12
Speaker
His arms were locked in the 10 and 2 position on the wheel. And Marcus starts slowly veering off of the road. His girlfriend screaming, shaking him to wake up.
00:31:24
Speaker
And they go off road into a ditch and they hit a tree. Marcus did not survive the accident, but his girlfriend did. And it was later found that George had been teaching Marcus about self-hypnosis to help him get through pain on the field.
00:31:39
Speaker
So it was assumed that he self-hypnotized himself after the stentist appointment and crashed the car. So a few things here. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
If you want to teach a child when you had to get certified, what's wrong with you? But he didn't get certified. Didn't he? He took a class that was like taught by like some guy who's like a famous hypnotist. It wasn't like a board certification of any kind. So it was like a fancy. I made a a ah certificate in Canva and maybe bought an embosser and here's a certificate. Well, he didn't do it. They gave it to him.
00:32:16
Speaker
That's what I meant. Yeah. Like, but that's the sort like, that's what it's worth. Yeah. He went like on a weekend retreat and they taught him how to be hypnosis. Yeah. But it was $3,000. So, you know, he must have learned so much.
00:32:31
Speaker
Well, ah few things here. The autopsy of Marcus confirmed that he wasn't on anything at the time from the dentist that would have had this kind of reaction.
00:32:41
Speaker
So him driving after the dentist may not have been a factor. i bet the dentist was relieved. Yes. They didn't mention it could have been a seizure or a stroke or something.
00:32:54
Speaker
But again, i don't have those records. And I feel like I hope they would have checked for those things because that sounds like a seizure to me. Yeah. But I'm not an expert again. Also, the local news report at the time of the accident reports that there was a crash earlier that week on that same stretch of highway and that four teenagers had died.
00:33:15
Speaker
They weren't hypnotized. So there's that. Like, it could also have been, you know, just a really dangerous part of the road. out No, actually, that that just accounts, no, not not for him doing that. Yeah, was going to say, she saw him, right? Like, he was definitely messed up and he was veering off the road. That's why they veered off the road. Mm-hmm.
00:33:34
Speaker
The next student I want to talk about is Wesley McKinney, age 16. He spent most of the time in the music room at North Port High. He would play guitar, write songs, teach other students how to play the guitar.
00:33:47
Speaker
Wesley had big dreams of going to Juilliard and becoming a famous musician. He loved everything about performing music, but nothing about music theory. His music teacher had gotten him a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to audition for a chance to go to Juilliard, but he felt that he didn't really have a shot without a better grasp of the fundamentals beyond performance.
00:34:10
Speaker
Well, one day, Wesley comes home saying that Dr. Kenny... Because again, that's what they're calling him now. He said that Dr. Kenny did a hypnosis demonstration in psychology class, and he thought this could really help him succeed in the audition.
00:34:24
Speaker
Wesley's parents aren't super into the idea of anyone hypnotizing their kid, and so they shut it down. They tell him they don't feel comfortable with that, and that's the end of that.
00:34:35
Speaker
But Wesley feels like this is his only shot to get into Juilliard. And so he gets his parents to sign the permission slip to see Dr. Kenny telling them it's for a field trip.
00:34:46
Speaker
And he starts having these sessions with George without his parents' knowledge um after school. Well, on April eighth So yeah he just like.
00:34:59
Speaker
Slipped in the permission slip. Yeah. And said what it was for, and she didn't read it. She just signed it. she just signed it. And they showed the permission slip. I mean, it is like a three-line. Like, i Like, she read that, okay, I print here, I yeah sign here, and I date here. Yeah, exactly. Like, it was that kind of thing. Like, I agree that I fill in... Like, I, this name, agree to to let... Do this shit yeah and sign me. And she thought it was for a field trip, yeah, because it was like...
00:35:28
Speaker
Because kids have permission slips for field trips all the time. Correct. And I mean, yes, she should have read it better. But also for something of that magnitude, I would expect a little bit of a bigger release kind of situation then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That feels like an understatement because this feels like and I know it's somehow not considered so, but if it's this effective, it should be considered medicine. Right. right It it's this should be a medical procedure. Correct. Is it still not?
00:36:00
Speaker
or I think it is. Yeah. I mean, you're supposed to be cert certified to do this kind of thing. reals, you certified, though, not a three thousand dollar class. Correct. Yeah. So on April 8th, 2011, it's after school and Wesley is riding home on the bus as usual with his friends, but he isn't acting normal.
00:36:18
Speaker
He isn't responding to his name and he's telling his friends his name is Tyler. He spent most of the ride with his head down and at some point he sits up and starts looking out the window and he starts counting the streetlights.
00:36:31
Speaker
They get to their stop and they get off the bus. And as soon as Wesley gets off the bus, he turns to his friend Thomas and insists Thomas punch him.
00:36:42
Speaker
And he's repeating it over and over. He's like, punch me. And his friend's like, chill. we're not We're not doing that. I don't know what your deal is, but whatever. This is not Fight Club. Yeah. So they end up all going to Thomas's house as yeah as you do, you know, like after you just asked your friend to punch you in the face, which I mean, really as a teenager, literally, that's as you do. I mean, you you're going to the place that you go every day. that's You're not changing that just because somebody was weird. Correct. 100%. They end up all going over to Thomas's house to play video games. And while there, Wesley gets a text from his girlfriend at the time, basically saying she's moving on and to not text her anymore.
00:37:20
Speaker
So all around, he's having like a really bad time. Yeah. So he leaves Thomas's house and heads home. And when he gets home, his mother says he didn't talk to her, which is unusual.
00:37:31
Speaker
And then he went to his room, dropped his book bag, and then turned around and walked back out the door. But instead of sitting on one of the patio chairs as he normally would, he just like kept walking and went past the window down the street.
00:37:47
Speaker
And his mother says she was banging on the window, calling his name. she's shes she felt something was off, but he didn't look back. He didn't acknowledge her. And shortly after the incident, the cops are at the door. And Wesley had apparently gone into an abandoned house around the corner and he hung himself.
00:38:07
Speaker
And Wesley's friends and family are adamant that he... He was not himself that day that there was something odd about him. And he was requesting that he be called Tyler, which was odd because Tyler was his middle name. And that was also the name that George would use to ensure that Wesley was fully in a trance, which was found because of the videos that you mentioned later. Right. Right.
00:38:33
Speaker
Oh, that's spooky. Yeah. Like he would because if he would respond to Wesley, then he knew that he was not fully in. But if he would respond to Tyler, he'd say, all right, Tyler.
00:38:44
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, i think on that video. That we were talking about the documentary, saw it talked about how they found him, right? So, again, I was watching when I was at work. I recall that.
00:38:56
Speaker
Like somebody was like going to look at the house or something like that. And like a kid came across him. Yes. And yeah. Or he wanted to see if the the house had a pool and found him that way. And it was like just hours after. Hours. Yeah. It was like literally he had walked out that door two hours before maybe. yeah And it's just like what what prompted him to go in the backyard of an abandoned house and hang himself. Yeah.
Legal and Ethical Reflections on George Kenney's Case
00:39:23
Speaker
And like, why? That feels like weirdly zombie programmed shit. Correct. Yeah. So. The final student I want to focus on is Brittany Palumbo.
00:39:35
Speaker
She was working towards entry to her dream school, UFC, University of Central Florida. Her boyfriend was already there. Her best friend and her um her best friend was planning to to room with her there through college. It was a big deal for her to get in.
00:39:50
Speaker
Brittany worked hard on her schooling, on her GPA. She joined clubs. She volunteered. She did everything she could to make herself an appealing candidate for acceptance. But Brittany couldn't seem to get the needed SAT scores to qualify her for entry, which fair enough. I could talk about a subject all day, but don't give me a test.
00:40:12
Speaker
Multiple choice. I'll talk myself up and down if it's fill in the blanks. And no word bank. I'm like, anything could go there. any It's Mad Libs at that point. like So Brittany goes to George Kenny looking for guidance on SAT t testing help.
00:40:27
Speaker
And what she got was an offer to be hypnotized out of what he's saying is test anxiety. So her mother agrees to go try it out with her as long as she can go. Like she wants to be in the room with her.
00:40:40
Speaker
So at least, you know, that's good. So the following is a description of what her mother remembers from the experience. It was after school on a Friday.
00:40:51
Speaker
They were in George Kenny's office and the door shut. The lights are dim and the blinds are closed. Brittany sat in a chair opposite of George at his desk. As the session begins, he tells her to relax and breathe.
00:41:04
Speaker
And he goes through an exercise with her. Brittany's mom says at this point she was bent over like a 90 degree angle almost with her head between her knees and her arms dangling down where her fingertips had almost touched the floor.
00:41:18
Speaker
I mean, you saw how they were bent over. Yeah, very ragdoll. Yeah. And it's because that's not a position that most people can just do. Yeah, no, it took me a lot of yoga to be able to live like that. Yeah. Yeah. But George tells Brittany that she's going to start feeling her heart slow down and she'll no longer be able to hear anything outside of just him speaking.
00:41:39
Speaker
And he proceeds to tell her, quote, I'm going to give you a subliminal message that any time in your life that you feel anxious, depressed, confused, that you'll blink your eyes rapidly and enter calm and relaxed state.
00:41:57
Speaker
End quote. And then he slowly brought her back to her normal state. So Brittany's mother says that she attempted to discuss the session with her daughter when they stepped outside before getting in the car.
00:42:09
Speaker
And she says that Brittany remembers nothing of the session. Like she seemed oblivious of anything that had been done, anything that she said. She didn't realize that she had like gone fully ragdoll and was like, you know, a lot of these kids ended up like laying in the principal's lap, like their face in his lap.
00:42:26
Speaker
And, you know, he says on on video, oh he says in the court records, like, I never would have done that if, like, had a child in my lap if the parent was in the room. Yeah. But, like, a lot of the video shows, like,
00:42:39
Speaker
There was no parent in the room, but he's like, oh, the parent was back there. Sure. But everything has turned into a he said, she said. But I mean, you can see from the videos beyond like hypnotizing the children that he didn't do anything inappropriate with them beyond that. Right.
00:42:55
Speaker
That's bad enough. Yes. But but at least that. Yes. So needless to say, like this scares her mom, Brittany's mom, and she tells her you can't join any more of these sessions like we're done. But unfortunately for Brittany, the hypnosis session didn't seem to be enough to boost her SAT scores.
00:43:12
Speaker
They only went up by 11 points, and this meant she wouldn't be able to get into her dream school. Her best friend who would be rooming with her was starting to be distant. Her boyfriend had broken up with her. She wasn't doing well mentally or emotionally.
00:43:25
Speaker
Her mother could tell that she wasn't doing well so that they had been keeping a really close eye on her. They had gotten her enrolled into community college for the starting year. And her mother says that the day after they'd gotten her enrolled, Brittany comes home from school and she asked her mother if she could borrow the car to get some eyeliner.
00:43:45
Speaker
Brittany went to the store, came back with a bag that had the eyeliner in it. She told her mom she was going to go take a nap. And when her parents went to get her for dinner at 6 p.m., they noticed that her door was locked.
00:43:56
Speaker
They were able to gain entry to her bedroom through an exterior window and found that Brittany had unfortunately killed herself. This was in April of 2011. So I don't know if you noticed this.
00:44:11
Speaker
So in the documentary, i heard Brittany's mom mention a few times how odd it was the position that the kids were found in Yeah, that they were hung the same way. They were hung the same way and that their knees were bent.
00:44:29
Speaker
So it was almost like they had gone into the same. She said it seemed like they had gone into that same position that they would when they were hypnotized.
00:44:40
Speaker
And that was it was literally like two seconds that she had brought some that up and it was just glossed over. And I could not find that anywhere else.
00:44:51
Speaker
So just a weird observation and a weird, yeah, it just it made me feel gross when I realized that. All of these deaths happened within weeks of each other and all from the same school.
00:45:05
Speaker
By the time Brittany had passed, there were two groups of people, those that now believe that George's involvement had something to do with all these kids dying and those who see it as a blameless accident.
00:45:16
Speaker
And the news is running with it. The school board gets involved and they start investigating the deaths and activities of the students before they died. And this is where they find out what George has been doing. And they put him on paid administrative leave because it turns out he had a lot of permission slips.
00:45:35
Speaker
And some parents wanted to say they were forged, but they could tell they weren't. Right. so maybe the parents weren't paying attention. But the other thing that he was doing is he got a permission slip.
00:45:47
Speaker
But it didn't have an end date on it. So the parents thought they were signing up for one time. Yeah. Signing up for one time. And then just he just kept going with it.
00:45:58
Speaker
Well, the the Florida Department of Health got involved and they actually brought up charges against George. for overstepping his rights without a healthcare or hypnosis license, and he was charged with two misdemeanors for practicing hypnosis without a license.
00:46:13
Speaker
He pled no contest to avoid prison time and avoid losing his retirement benefits, and he ended up resigning from the position with the school and eventually just moved away. In his sentencing for this, he was given two consecutive terms of six months probation and 50 hours of community service for his actions.
00:46:35
Speaker
Wow. Yes. So now the students' deaths, because they couldn't directly be tied to him, There weren't any direct charges that came from those deaths for him because it was all just hearsay. Like, yeah, he shouldn't have been legally. Yeah, he shouldn't have been hypnotizing him. But there's no evidence to show that what he did caused them, you know, he's like they were kids and they had their own problems. And it's just...
00:47:07
Speaker
It all just feels very icky. But yeah the students' families did end up suing the Sarasota County School Board for wrongful death. um And each family was awarded $200,000 each in 2015 as part of the settlement, which is the max that the school board is allowed to give. So they just gave it to them.
00:47:28
Speaker
Wow. So it was really interesting. And I kind of want to hear your opinions about the documentary. If you had any anything that I didn't bring up that you find.
00:47:39
Speaker
I understand why schools don't want to focus on a kid that died by suicide to keep from glorifying suicide. I get that. Mm hmm. But the proximity of time to the next, apparently what they did was all of these big pep rallies, not pep rallies, but like all of these memorials and stuff for the first kid. Oh, yeah. The one that died in the car accident. Right.
00:48:02
Speaker
But not the two that that died by suicide. The perspective of this particular documentary is you kind of have the people that love and remember him and and thought that he was grand he was grand. And they even have like a reunion at the end where they have a hypnosis session and everything. it' That was creepy. That hypnosis session was so creepy. creepier thing and then was that part at the end yes where he was saying the exact same thing. And then he goes, well, yes. Well, that was, yes. I was going to actually talk about that part. But like.
00:48:32
Speaker
The part for me that was really creepy was when he had, look, I don't care. Like if you don't, I do care. If you don't want spoilers, go ahead, like maybe a minute and a half. All right.
00:48:45
Speaker
Two minutes. But. There were there were two two things that he did, the hypnosis session he did at the end, where it was so creepy because he put the kid down fully, woke him up, and the kid was like, oh, well, he wasn't a kid anymore. He's an adult.
00:49:01
Speaker
And he goes, oh, like he he mentioned how hard that was on his back this time, right? Yeah. And then he goes, look into my eyes. And the kid, the guy, sorry, he looked really confused for a second because And he goes, give me your hand. He goes, what?
00:49:16
Speaker
No. It was that second that he realized, I think, and he grabbed his hand and he goes, count down from 10. And he just started counting. You heard him hitch at four and he pulls his arm and says, sleep. And he just goes down again.
00:49:33
Speaker
So it's like he was still tranced that whole time. Yeah. And the fact that he could still control them that long. He proved he literally proved that he did it. Yeah. i That's what I felt like. That's my opinion. not I was driving and listening to it on my way home today at that point. And that was so eerie because I just heard him say no. And I'm like, ooh. Yes. Oh, you didn't see it. No, I didn't. So I need to go back and watch that. After this, just see that piece. I showed it to Ace because I was like, it is.
00:49:59
Speaker
It's so. And he was like, that man That's not okay. But something that Ace, so Ace, um he works in in and legal claims and and risk claims. So he deals with a lot of people who are being dishonest.
00:50:13
Speaker
And he's always had a very good picker for that kind of thing. And it's kind of scary sometimes how he can clock people. But it's really funny because he was like, that guy he has no idea what he did.
00:50:28
Speaker
He didn't do it on purpose, but he knows like, It's like you said, it was his ego. Like, it was 100% his ego. And it wasn't like he was maliciously trying to kill the kids. But I do think there was a switch or something.
00:50:44
Speaker
Or with these kids self-hypnotizing that they couldn't pull themselves out of. Yeah. Is what I think might have happened. But this is, again, my opinion. At the end, another spoiler, if you want another two minutes. Yeah.
00:51:00
Speaker
When he was, yeah talking at the end and it was he was talking about Marcus, Marcus Freeman. I think this was the part that you were talking about. And he went through the whole thing in every single interview describing Marcus word for word, same tone. Same inflection, same choke up points, everything. Yeah. It was creepy. It was very eerie because I was driving at that moment, but I was hearing it overlaid and it was just like I knew what I was hearing. yeah I knew that they were just showing these different interviews
00:51:32
Speaker
Because I was like, they they did a lot of repetition. Like they they showed a lot of the same things. But at that point, that was so cleverly done. Not a badly made documentary. No, it wasn't. It definitely, I think it was good. it was it was good, but think. It definitely skewed a way, a certain kind of And that's why i was interested to see with you just having that perspective, what your opinions were, you know, hearing this perspective as well on top of it. Again, because I i probably wasn't as dialed into the story as i as I could have been. I definitely missed a lot of the details, but like it felt sinister already. It is way more sinister now. Yeah. is way like It's a lot darker and knowing how the story ends kind of makes me sad. Yeah. Yeah.
Podcast Conclusion and Future Teasers
00:52:18
Speaker
Well, this is a nightmare cottage. That's what we do here. Did you say how the story ended? Did you say how he got to go off and retire with his full pension and has his own like bed and breakfast or whatever? i didn't know about the bed and breakfast. I know that he like retired out to like Montana or something like that. The Carolinas or whatever they said. Somewhere far away. Yeah. And with his full pension. Yeah. That's why that's why he pled for misdemeanors instead of a felony.
00:52:45
Speaker
Yeah. So that he could still keep his pension. hmm. And because he had been teaching for over 30 years, he he was able to retire at that time. like So like no penalty, no real penalty. Not for the kids, no. The only thing he got a penalty for was, and not even a penalty. like How are you going to give him a year probation and community service for hypnotizing kids? I know for a fact, people get more than that for having weed in their pockets.
00:53:13
Speaker
And this guy literally just got probation for hypnotizing so many what this is so cute if you are hearing this oh no he's like please come out it's because monkey's home yes
00:53:37
Speaker
well Grimm's decided we're done for the day and I think we've given plenty um but if you want to look into this yourself to kind of see what we're talking about where there's you know it's it's very Yeah, so it's it's very bizarre. It is a very bizarre case. um There is a documentary. he he There is a documentary on amc Plus. and Activate the unconscious. Look into my eyes. True crime story. We'll also have it in the show notes for you. And.
00:54:09
Speaker
So I recently read a book that people have been recommending to me for a while and it was just fucking brilliant. It's called The Hike by Drew McGarry.
00:54:21
Speaker
It is about this guy who is on a trip away from his family um and he gets to his hotel and he has some time before he has to do whatever it is he has to do and he goes on a hike.
00:54:34
Speaker
Cool. And The Hike is the rest of the book. And it's hilarious and dark. That sounds awesome. Twisty and fucked up and great. And um it's the fact that it was funny is exactly what I needed. And i love that.
00:54:52
Speaker
I very much. i I hate that I slept on it for so long, but it's called The Hike and I recommend it. Great stuff. Awesome. I ma might need a download that for my drive. Yes, our our drive to Galveston. We're going be. It's a good audio book. it's ah If you're going like listen. Yeah. Because it's the voices are good.
00:55:12
Speaker
Either way, though. Good book. So I told y'all I would keep you updated on the Jonathan Gerlach story, the grave robber from Pennsylvania. so in the and the investigation continues. it's It's still an ongoing thing. i know We're getting so many alerts for it. Like, there's so many...
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah. There's lot of weirdness. i've I've set up some alerts for for several different many things, but I keep getting alerts on this guy. and it's because there's a lot of abandoned graveyards in that area. It is an old part of the country. So there's a lot of spaces that are just not maintained anymore.
00:55:49
Speaker
And apparently someone's taking advantage. um There's been some break-ins in some other nearby cemeteries. They've found things like energy drinks and cigarette butts around. Yeah. So that's, that's really ah the, ah the biggest update so far is that they, they are finding more.
00:56:05
Speaker
They're finding more desecration, but they're not sure if it's him. I mean, cause it could be homeless people. It could be a lot of things. There are apparently things that are, I'm assuming that it's probably like his brand of cigarettes or whatever. Like that's they don't say specifically in the news article that I read. So, but I'll link it. I'll put it um in the show notes. Yes. So.
00:56:26
Speaker
Y'all can follow that along with us. All right. All right. Well, thanks for joining us. We'll have spooky travel stories next time, I hope. I hope. We'll see. We'll see.
00:56:37
Speaker
Well, sweet dreams. Night-night. If you have topic requests, book or movie recommendations, or just want to say hi, email us at nightmarecottage at gmail.com or visit our website at nightmarecottage.com.
00:56:51
Speaker
Sweet dreams. What are you doing? What are you doing? Bye-bye.
00:57:08
Speaker
and bye