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Episode 1: An OT and Educator’s Journey into the World of TimberNook Get to know your hosts, Morgan Leger (occupational therapist) and Camden Johnson (educator), as they take you behind the scenes of their journeys to TimberNook. Through their stories, discover how child-led outdoor play transformed not only their work, but the way they understand development, learning, and the essence of childhood.
33 Plays1 month ago
Get to know your hosts, Morgan Leger (occupational therapist) and Camden Johnson (educator), as they take you behind the scenes of their journeys to TimberNook. Through their stories, discover how child-led outdoor play transformed not only their work, but the way they understand development, learning, and the essence of childhood.
Transcript
Introduction to The Nook
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone, I'm Camden. And I'm Morgan. And we are so excited to welcome you to the first episode of The Nook. Yay. It's truly an honor to be starting this podcast. We've both been deeply inspired by the work of Timber Nook and by the incredible people that we've met along the way and who believe so strongly in the Timber Nook mission.
00:00:18
Speaker
um So for this very first episode, we wanted to take a moment to share what The Nook means to us and talk about our hopes and dreams for the podcast and also introduce a little bit about who we are. If you're here with us listening to this podcast today, there's a high chance you've probably heard of Timber Nook.
00:00:33
Speaker
And along with it, the amazing founder and OT, Angela Hanscom. She's also the cultivator of this amazing community and movement.
Hosts' Backgrounds
00:00:42
Speaker
You can definitely expect to hear from Angela on this podcast, so keep your eyes and your ears open.
00:00:48
Speaker
But in the meantime, you might be wondering, who are these people you see in front of you today? And if you are a Timber Nook provider and we've already met before, or you've met Morgan before, hello. Nice to see you again. Hello.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hi, I'm Morgan. I'm a pediatric occupational therapist. I began working in Timber Nook this past year and much of my career before that has been focused on supporting children with autism.
00:01:10
Speaker
I was incredibly fortunate early on to have mentors who truly modeled child-centered neuro-forming approaches to therapy and that foundation has shaped everything I do as an OT.
00:01:22
Speaker
So currently I serve as Timbernook's occupational therapy liaison for training and integration, and I also work in an outpatient pediatric clinic, supporting children with things like emotional regulation, food selectivity, sensory processing differences, and global and fine motor developmental delays.
00:01:39
Speaker
And I'm Camden. I currently work at a Catholic school. I work in the nursery department, and I also teach high school French, and the best part is being a Timbernook provider for the school.
00:01:52
Speaker
So I guess we can just dive right into it, Camden. How did you first hear about Timber Nook? Yeah, so I first heard about Timber Nook when I was actually in school. I've known Angie, Angela Hanscom, for a very long time, ever since I was really young. All our parents used to get together, and um my parents and her were part of that. So I actually got to hang out with her daughters and a lot of the other kids in that group, and we would just all go play outside.
00:02:19
Speaker
And that's where it really first started was um just getting all these kids together to go play outside, and it was just amazing. And I remember it was first introduced to my school where I was going. So all the kids started going to Timber Nook through the school, which was amazing. And it was just so fun. I remember just being able to go out there and have fun with your friend. Like, no, the adults kind of just take a step back and they just let the child led play ensue. And it just, it was great. i I loved it so much because,
00:02:50
Speaker
at school or at home you always have an adult on your back saying hey first don't do this don't do that it's dangerous so it was just amazing to be able to experience that for the first time yeah and that's how it should be you know that's cool so you really have direct lived experience with timber nook growing up which is a unique perspective yeah yeah for sure it feels like forever ago but yeah yeah so how about you how'd you hear about timber nook so i was first introduced to timber nook through ah ot school when um angie's book Balanced and Barefoot was required reading for us.
Discovering Timber Nook
00:03:20
Speaker
And when I read it, I just remember resonating really deeply with what she was talking about. And she so clearly articulated something that so many of us as therapists, as teachers, as parents, and even just like like you said, former children. Yeah. um really instinctively new to be true. And that was that child-led outdoor play free from adult interference and rooted in a sense of felt safety is profoundly beneficial for development and overall well-being. Yeah, absolutely.
00:03:50
Speaker
Couldn't agree more. And Camden, I'm really excited to be doing this podcast with you because i feel like we come to this podcast from two very different lenses. Me as an occupational therapist and you as an
Podcast Goals and Interdisciplinary Focus
00:04:02
Speaker
educator. And I can't wait to learn from your perspective and to explore in real time the impact that Timber Nook has in school settings like yours and in these children's lives.
00:04:12
Speaker
Absolutely. I really envision this space as a place where interdisciplinary voices and thought leaders can come together around child development. We want to share stories of lived experience from families, participants, and timber nook providers. And at the same time, we're committed to grounding conversations in evidence-informed dialogue about the impact of outdoor play on developing children.
Stories of Problem-Solving and Risk-Taking
00:04:35
Speaker
Most importantly, we hope that the Nook becomes an open and candid space where we can share ideas, ask thoughtful questions, challenge our own assumptions, and grow together as a community of child advocates with curiosity, nuance, and reflection at the center of everything we do.
00:04:54
Speaker
And I know you touched upon it a little bit, but I think everyone who is introduced to Timbernook has a memory of when the Timbernook philosophy really clicked for them. Do you have a moment like that for you? I guess I have two because, like I said, I was part of this as a kid.
00:05:14
Speaker
So as soon as we did that, it was like that. And was like, this is great. This is how it's supposed to be. But also from being a Timbernook provider, working at the school, um it was crazy to me to see some of the kids go out there and they're I don't know what to do. i they they They've never done this before. So, you know, my my initial thought was that these kids were going to run out there and they'd all be doing their thing. But it is, there are a lot of kids who don't really know what to do when they get out there.
00:05:45
Speaker
Or I guess my my real example, I would say, would be, I remember seeing at the school that I work at, we have a giant mud pit. And one of the kids got stuck in the mud and he's sitting there. He's like,
00:05:59
Speaker
help me help me help and you know as timid providers were supposed to stay back and kind of let them try to figure it out it on their own or like what happened a couple of the kids came over they got a bunch of pieces of wood they made a bridge to get over to them and they they all saved them so it was really awesome to just see look these kids are smart they know what needs to be done to you know well this was like a instance where they had to save each other um But it was just so cool to watch and see that they can figure these things out. And then, you know, afterwards, that kid didn't go in that part of the mud again because he knew he was going to get stuck. So the natural consequences aspect of it is amazing, too. It's just it's such a good way for kids to learn. but Natural consequences all the way is the best way for a kid to learn. So watching all this happen was just amazing. its just that was like my big like, oh, so this is why we do it, you know?
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like you really... It all comes down to giving kids the opportunity to work through problems that may arise. yeah And obviously with adults being close by and monitoring for safety, but they are so so capable of yeah so much more than we give them
Benefits of Child-Led Outdoor Play
00:07:14
Speaker
credit for. And i think that's where Timber Nook really shines and gives that kids the opportunity to grow that skill set. Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like my moment Timber Nook clicked is very similar to yours. It was more so um during my first week of programming, um ah during regular Timber Nook programming.
00:07:34
Speaker
Almost immediately, i was able to visually identify which children had been to Timber Nook before and which children have not been to Timber Nook. And that was really surprising to me. Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
There was a noticeable difference in how the kids who have had a Timber Nook experience carried themselves in their confidence, in their creativity, even in their body language. um And what struck me most was that some of the first-time participants seemed genuinely unsure of what to do without adult and instruction. It was as if for a moment they had seriously forgotten how to play without adult interference. Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
Like, for example, I had a child come up to me constantly asking all the time, like, what's next on the schedule? i had other kids who were hovering around the adults, seeking adult interaction, watching other kids.
00:08:23
Speaker
just like waiting for adult guidance. yeah um But then as they started to observe the other children who may have been at Timber Nook before, who were fully immersed in their own play, they're building, creating, experimenting things that we see all the time out in the woods. And as they were able to build affordances with those natural elements and the staging materials,
00:08:43
Speaker
You could see that shift happening in them. Yeah. Over time, may not have happened the first day or even three weeks in, but you could see a slow, gradual growth in watching them remember and how to play and like processing what it feels like to just follow their own ideas and trust themselves in the space. And that was really amazing for me. That was really when it clicked. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:08
Speaker
from Also, I think Timber Nook really challenged my thinking around like trust and risk and autonomy for children as adults, and especially as teachers and therapists, we're often taught to manage risk, reduce uncertainty, intervene really quickly if something comes up. And of course, there are places for all of those things, but at Timber Nook, I really saw what happens when children are trusted with their play. um and when we allow for appropriate risk, we communicate trust. And oftentimes children, when they feel trusted, they will rise to meet that trust, that expectation of trust. Like they will rise to that occasion.
00:09:53
Speaker
So giving them the opportunity to do that is really beautiful. Have you noticed that pattern in your school at all? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they understand their boundaries and they understand that there is risk with any decision you make. So, yeah, you can tell they're they're making their own decisions out there whether or not to do this or that. and And your body's hardwired to want to stay safe and stay alive. so For sure. Yeah. but And it's funny because when we're at Timber Nook, they're all great and they're all doing making the correct decisions most of the time.
00:10:29
Speaker
um but when they come back and they're playing out at recess kids like to test they always want to push you so how especially with the teachers who are not timber nook certified you know they're all out there don't do this don't go up there don't go on that and i sit there and i watch because in my head i'm thinking just let them do what they're because they're going to be safe as long as they're not putting themselves or others at in danger right in danger yeah of course So I think that kids know to keep themselves safe and they also want to do what they're told not to do.
00:11:03
Speaker
So it's good to have that balance of giving them that trust and giving them that option to make that risk assessment and figure out what decision they're going to make.
00:11:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting that you said that you notice a difference in their risk assessment when they're in an open outdoor environment versus more of a structured play environment, which I feel like we've seen as Timbernote providers. Like we we do notice that difference, but I don't know if the average person would would be able to. Yeah, I don't know. And it's it's funny. It made me think of another thing. ah One of the kids was playing and they got hurt and then they were crying. They're like, why did you let me do that? That wouldn't happen at Timber Nook because, you know, they're making their own decisions. They know that they're out there and we're not there to be in charge of them. They know that they are out there to make their own decisions. So when we're out at recess and somebody gets hurt and they're like, oh, you let this happen because you're supposed to be in charge of me. I think that's another piece of it. They think that somebody is watching over them and is making the decisions for them.
00:12:03
Speaker
Basically by making those rules. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it it comes down to me that like autonomy is so crucial. It's when children are given the opportunity to have appropriate overship ownership over their play, their problem solving, their pacing.
00:12:21
Speaker
We're supporting not just their physical development, but their confidence, their resilience, their self-efficacy. And watching that unfold in real time has really influenced how I think about therapy and education and just what children truly need to thrive for sure.
Advocacy for Longer Outdoor Playtimes
00:12:36
Speaker
Absolutely. So i'm sure it's very different, but also very similar between our two professions. But how has Timberdook changed how you view development in education? Yeah, sure. So I feel like one of the biggest ways that Tim Renauk has changed the way I see development and learning in general, especially as an OT, is that it reminded me truly how integrated everything truly is. Regulation, sensory processing, motor planning, executive functioning, social emotional growth, they all develop.
00:13:06
Speaker
they don't They don't develop in isolation usually. It's something that merges together through a meaningful experience. um Like from a regulation standpoint, Timbernook really reinforced for me how truly powerful that child-led environment can be.
00:13:21
Speaker
Because the play is self-directed, children are constantly tuning into their own bodies. They're choosing the kinds of input that they need in the moment. So the outdoor setting naturally offers so many regulating experiences like heavy work, carrying and digging, um vestibular input from climbing and swinging, um rhythmic movement.
00:13:44
Speaker
walking, running, building, rebuilding. But that what's different is that that input isn't necessarily prescribed or prompted by an adult, but children access it when their bodies need it. yeah Like when they're trusted to do that, their nervous systems are able to settle, they're able to organize um and then stay engaged in the play. So in these environments, regulation isn't always something we have to like teach or manage, but it's something that's supported by the environment itself and often emerges through like choice, autonomy, and just movement.
00:14:16
Speaker
you know, do you notice in your setting, the school setting, how does Timber Nook influence your perspective on development and learning? Yeah, so the biggest one, I think, is one that we talk about a lot, which is these kids need more time to play outside. At schools, when they have these 20, 30-minute recesses, um it's just not enough time.
00:14:38
Speaker
These kids need, you know, the two hours to play outside. i mean, sometimes even more. um, being introduced to the play, getting comfortable with it, getting into it and just getting their energy out. And then on their own coming down from that energy and, um, coming down to moderate levels and ready to go back into school and learn is just way better than just going out for a few minutes, barely getting that energy spike and getting comfortable with your play. And then, all right, let's go back in, let's go learn. And that's why kids are tipping in their chairs or fidgeting with pencils and or doing all these things because they just can't they're not getting their energy out and they're not being able to play or get your energy out the way we were meant to um so that's the biggest thing for me also seeing how it correlates with their risk taking in school i see like especially with the younger kids a lot of them are afraid to climb on this or afraid to walk on that or
00:15:36
Speaker
anything like that really and then when they go out and they at first they hate Timber Nook they'll they'll go out and they start crying and oh I don't want to go outside you know i was told like there's even this one girl that was like oh you're not supposed to eat snow it's dirty and all the kids are eating snow and making snow cakes and s snow pies and all sorts of things they're eating it And then just watching these kids that are very on the edge or very nervous about everything just slowly start getting into that and um becoming more risk-taking, even in school, whether it be, you know, oh, I'm going try out for this sport or I'm going to go into the, do the play, do theater. Yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker
or even just with the younger kids walking up and down the stairs or climbing on something, they they just change really quick and they start taking more risks and becoming more successful in their endeavors that they choose to pursue in school.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like their confidence that they're finding outside is translating into the school. And even it sounds like their endurance too. Yeah, yeah. And obviously that ability to focus because we all know that 15-minute recesses are not enough for kids. Yeah, not even close. That doesn't even scratch the surface. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And piggybacking on what you're saying too, what when it comes to sensory processing and motor process as an OT, and looking at that often times in a school setting, if we're in schools or outside of a school setting, being outside is truly like being in a living sensory gym for these kids. Like kids are constantly taking in rich, meaningful sensory input. uneven terrain, changing textures, variable resistance, gravity, weather, all while planning and executing their own ideas.
00:17:16
Speaker
Things like climbing and carrying and building and balancing. these are These aren't just play skills. They're foundational for body awareness and coordination and motor planning.
Enhancing Executive Function
00:17:26
Speaker
Like you're seeing. um And because the motivation is intrinsic when they're outside and they're engaged in meaningful play, it's intrinsically motivating for them. That learning sticks in a way that structured activities just don't for kids. Yeah.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah. And isn't even a thing that I heard once, um I don't know if it was from you or from Angie or i can't remember who told me, but isn't even hearing the sounds of the birds and nature around you, that's like a really good thing for your learning how your body, i don't I know what you're trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. It basically positions you in space. It, it, it aids in that body awareness because you're able to hear how far away you are from different distances. Like that, ah hope that your auditory system aids and assists in that, which is really great. That's really cool. Yeah.
00:18:15
Speaker
And the same goes for executive functioning and social emotional skills. um you I mean, we we see kids planning and problem solving, persisting through frustration and adapting ideas, collaborating with others, and all because truly at the core, this play matters to them. When they get into a play scheme, when they're given the time, like you're saying, when it's not just 15 minutes when they're outside, but truly given the time to establish these play schemes. they care about them and conflict can become an opportunity for negotiation or repair rather than something that adults and immediately need to come in and resolve yeah big time like especially the one i'm sure you've seen it out there like oh they're stealing from me and then you know it turns into it's a conflict oh they're stealing from me but then it turns into that play It's a game of trying to win back whatever. like They're stealing. Oh, go steal it back. And they start with the clan play. And they start making bases and trying to capture the flag, basically. So yeah, that's a really good... Yeah, there are patterns we see when kids go outside and, again, are given that time and opportunity to build these play schemes. We see clan play happen all the time where these kids will develop. They'll have different, there are different groups that develop and different play dynamics. And stealing is something that does happen, like stealing different materials. And that's just part of human nature. We just gather, we're gatherers. yeah And so, yeah, no, that's very true. And then through that, they're able to,
00:19:40
Speaker
use those that executive functioning skills those problem solving and the planning and social emotional skills to work through that yeah it's really great and they're practicing these skills again in a context that feels meaningful and not manufactured absolutely which is where the best learning happens so yeah simbernak really shifted my lens from always asking like how do we teach this skill and more just what kind of environment allows this skill to emerge naturally
Countering Screen-Heavy Childhoods
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:06
Speaker
I mean, all of this is just so important. And I feel like especially Timber Nook in a whole is so important in our society right now, just because ah especially with all the electronics and all the short recesses and all this stuff is just so important for schools, kids, camps, all of these things, like even just at home, there's some of the kids in my class, they ask their parents when they're going outside at home, are we going to Timber Nook?
00:20:32
Speaker
So even at home, just having that environment to go outside and play it is just so important, especially today when there's just too much inside time and all these um doctor's visits. Why does my kid have so much energy? Why are they being just dropped destructive or tipping in their chair? Like all these things, even when I was a kid, that was concerns for kids my age. Mm-hmm.
00:20:56
Speaker
So it just so important um for these kids to have that experience. And i think this podcast is really going to help a lot with that. I hope we can get, you know, some, our word out there and have more schools discover us and more parents discover us and OTs discover us because it's just, it's something so obvious. You just don't even think of it. Mm-hmm. So I'm hoping we can just bring a lot of knowledge to some people and yeah, just get our get our name out there and Hopefully help the world become a better place get some more kids to go play outside for sure Yeah, it definitely feels important right now i think we're living in a time like you said where childhood is just increasingly structured We're packing schedules constant screens even as a part of the academic curriculum. We're seeing screens and
00:21:50
Speaker
Well-intentioned, but heavily adult-driven learning. And because of that, like families and professionals are starting to pause and ask different questions. um Not just about a achievement or productivity, but like the nervous system, joy, resilience, well-being, all things that Timber Nook aids in. yeah I feel like the Nook is our way of creating space for that. And it's a place for thoughtful, evidence-informed conversation, where research, experience, and curiosity really can come together and we can collectively rethink what it means to support children in a way that's truly developmentally aligned.
Podcast Schedule and Future Episodes
00:22:29
Speaker
Awesome. So as we wrap up today's episode, we want to let you know that you can expect to hear from us monthly on the first Tuesday of every month. And next month, we'll be bringing you firsthand perspectives from Joelle Hanscom, who grew up experiencing the Timber Nook program. And beyond that, we already have some pretty incredible guests lined up. So we are truly excited to share that with you.
00:22:52
Speaker
Our hope is that this podcast invites you to slow down, to listen, to reflect, and to begin observing children and play differently. Yeah, and if anything that you heard in this show resonated with you, make sure to subscribe, follow, whatever channel you're watching this on, or go do all of them. We'll be on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, podcasts, Spotify, anything you can really think of.
00:23:19
Speaker
Go follow us, Timurnook, at the Nook. You can find links in the description. Yes, we will. And until next time, go and play the Timurnook way.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yay.