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Day in the Life as a Full Time Working Mom with Brittany Bono
89 Plays2 years ago
This week I chat with a dear friend, Brittany, who is a full time working mom of two! We discuss the fascinating and important work she does consulting with employers on their reproductive health and family support benefit packages. We also dive into her personal experience returning to work after having each of her children, daycare, mom-guilt, and postpartum depression and anxiety. We finish the episode with a great discussion about her two different birth experiences: one in a traditional hospital setting and one at a midwifery birthing center. This episode we are really covering it all!
EPISODE NOTES:
Labor and Delivery Nurse to follow: @mommy.labornurse on instagram and Mommy Labor Nurse Podcast
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Transcript
Introduction of Brittany
00:00:13
Speaker
All right. Hi, everyone. And welcome back to Best Mom Ever. I'm really excited today to introduce you to a really good friend of mine, Brittany. Brittany and I went to college together and we met in our college acapella group because we were very cool.
Family Move to Pennsylvania
00:00:28
Speaker
Now, Brittany is a mom of two and she works full time. She has a really fascinating and important job that I'm excited for her to tell you more about. So, Brittany, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yay. Okay. So I want to start just by having you tell everybody about your family, your children, your partner, whatever you want to tell us. Okay. So as Jordan said, I'm a mom of two. I have a four year old son and a two year old daughter. And then I also have a really lovely and supportive husband. We recently, I think this is important context, recently moved back to our hometown.
00:01:10
Speaker
So for the last seven years, we've been living in Virginia, and less than a year ago, we relocated back to our hometown in Pennsylvania to be closer to family. That's awesome. I don't think I knew that you guys would move back. In my head, you were still in Virginia, so that's really, really nice. And did you guys move for jobs, or did you move to specifically be back with family? We moved to be closer to family. This was a very,
00:01:38
Speaker
big decision for us, something that we talked about for a long time, something that my husband had wanted for a really long time. And ultimately, I think what helped me make the final decision was knowing that we would have a lot more family support here. So I'm probably jumping into questions that you were gonna get to later on. But that was a big reason for why I wanted to make the move.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting because Chase and I have this debate all the time. We don't live any... We're close by the family, sort of. Chase's family is about three hours away. My parents usually are full-time in North Carolina, so that's a bit further of a drive, but they have been spending the past couple of months here with us, not in our house, but living nearby about 10 minutes away. So now that they're here, I'm like, please don't ever leave.
00:02:35
Speaker
much better being near a family, so I can totally see the drive. And that's not something I ever really thought I would say. I moved away for college, and then I moved away for law school, and I never really thought about moving back to family. But once you have kids, it changes the whole ballgame. Whole ballgame. I was definitely one of those people. I also moved away for college, only came back for brief visits for the last 14, 15 years.
00:03:01
Speaker
Kept saying, I'll never move back there. I'll never move back there. I'm a city girl. And you're totally right. Priorities change when you have kids. And you're making decisions as a couple for what's best for your whole kind of family. Things look different. Yeah. So when you guys move, so I want to get into your job now.
Career in Consulting and Family Support Benefits
00:03:22
Speaker
But before we do, because it kind of relates to moving, is your job fully remote? Yes. OK. So you were able to move and keep the same job.
00:03:31
Speaker
Okay, so for our listeners, your job is fascinating. And I think so important, especially for the moms out there. So can you tell us a bit about it? Absolutely. So I have found my way into what I consider to be a pretty niche area of consulting. So my overall firm does human resources consulting, we work with large companies, large employers across the United States. And we, again, as a company,
00:04:00
Speaker
consult on employee benefits plans, compensation, things like that. My niche is in what we call reproductive health and family support benefits. So I work with the human resources leaders and decision makers at organizations in the US on how they can better support people who are planning on having a family building journey, people who are on a family building journey, whatever that may look like, whether it involves
00:04:29
Speaker
pregnancy or assisted reproductive technology, aka in vitro fertilization, adoption, surrogacy, elective egg freezing, all the way through any potential parenthood journey. So when somebody becomes a parent, what does their postpartum or early parenting experience look like? How were they brought back into the workforce and supported in especially those early years, but then as their children and families mature,
00:04:58
Speaker
you know, how are people being supported in whatever those varied needs may be. So a lot of my work centers around fertility and family building benefits, which is a really big trend in the benefits space right now. You know, big, big name kind of tech firms are all really wanting to offer super generous in vitro fertilization benefits and, you know, inclusive adoption and surrogacy policies. And then even some of our most innovative clients are looking at
00:05:27
Speaker
um, really intentional and kind of carefully crafted, um, return to work benefits too. What is it? Well, first of all, that's incredible and amazing and important work. And I think I wish that every employer out there would talk to you guys about offering what they can offer their employees. Um, I work for the government and you know, there it's just standard. It's the government. So it's the, you know,
00:05:55
Speaker
It is what it is. There's not a lot of like creativity, but there is a little bit of flexibility and they can be pretty good about that depending on your supervisor. But what are some of the things that you are seeing with employers and their flexibility with individuals coming back after a maternity or fraternity leave? I think a couple of different things.
00:06:21
Speaker
The first is a phased return to work plan. So whatever works for the employee and the company kind of mutually, this can look different from person to person. It could be maybe you come back three days a week or maybe you come back in the mornings. Maybe you are coming back full time, but you're at a reduced workload. Or depending on industry, maybe you are able to come back with a slightly different
00:06:49
Speaker
role or a slightly different set of requirements and responsibilities, different expectations for those early days and weeks while you're kind of figuring out the logistical stuff that goes into coming back to work when you have a newborn or a new child at home. So I'd say that's probably the biggest thing in terms of flexibility that we're seeing. And then a lot of employees are really wanting to be able to work from home full time or at least part time as needed.
00:07:18
Speaker
So that's, I think, another really big request. Pat, when you are having these conversations with employers, are they giving pushback from those types of things? Or are they usually, they're coming to you guys because they are open to those discussions and providing those benefits to their employees? I think what's really lucky about my job is that I get to work with companies and with people at those companies who have just really amazing intentions. These employers aren't necessarily looking for cost savings, however,
00:07:48
Speaker
They could be achieved by retaining employees that you would otherwise lose to another employer or to people who would maybe just say, this is too hard. I'm just going to stay home for a while, where maybe they would prefer to stay in the workforce. So a lot of these people are really just wanting to support their employees. They're just coming from a really good place. That's amazing. And I think that's such a good point you're making, and I'm sure you make to the employers, is if you want to keep your employees, especially
00:08:18
Speaker
women coming back from, you know, maternity leave and how difficult that is. I think that that probably happens a lot. But exactly what you said, like, they want to stay in the workforce, they didn't have any intention of not coming back for maternity leave or not staying long term after that. But it's just the logistics of it are so overwhelming or so difficult or so not conducive to being both, you know, on hand on hands on parent and great employee. Yeah, so that's really great that
00:08:46
Speaker
I'm glad to hear that some employers are thinking forward because I think that's the way of the future, hopefully. I agree. I completely agree. And I think even just starting with some of the most innovative groups, it's like the word spreads quickly when somebody has really generous and accommodating benefits. And so I'm hoping that those kinds of things will eventually trickle down to the smaller or kind of less quickly moving, less innovative organizations.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, I hope
Comparing US and European Parental Support
00:09:17
Speaker
so. And you probably, of course, know much more about this than I do. But from what I can imagine, I feel like the United States is kind of behind in this area. It seems like, at least I have, this is anecdotal evidence on my part, but I do have a couple of friends who live in some European countries.
00:09:38
Speaker
For example, one of them is having twins and she's already been told by her employer, she'll have like eight to 12 months maternity leave and then it'll be a phased, she'll be phased back in and they're very accommodating of that. And she hasn't had her twins yet, but I think she's very positive about how that experience is gonna go because I can't even imagine having to go back to work from twins after 12 weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're totally right.
00:10:07
Speaker
In a lot of ways, the United States is very, very behind as it relates to supporting new parents, to supporting working parents. And I think that, you know, that's why there's a lot of work going on in the legislative world to try to pass, you know, paid family leave laws and paid parental leave, you know, to better support folks and make sure that there's some sort of, you know,
00:10:35
Speaker
mandated minimum level of benefits that people are entitled to. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking for you personally, what was your, I know you have two children. So what was your maternity leave experience like for both of your children and that transition back to work? So it was very different for each of my kids actually. And I didn't expect that. I have been with the same company through both of my pregnancies and return to work.
00:11:04
Speaker
Both times I had eight weeks of paid parental leave on top of six weeks of short-term disability. My company is generous and pays for all of that at 100%, which means that I didn't have to forego any of my income during that paid leave period. So I had a total of 14 weeks with each child. And then I was able to use a little bit of PTO to extend that too.
00:11:29
Speaker
Um, when I returned, I would say, um, I did come back at a full schedule. I kind of didn't really think to ask about a phased schedule. Um, I would have been able to potentially use my parental leave to develop a phased return to work schedule for myself. And it was just something I didn't quite have the foresight to do. Um, so I came in at a hundred percent and I remember the first time I came back to work, I was maybe sleeping a total of three hours broken up through the night.
00:11:59
Speaker
my son was in the throes of the four month sleep regression. And I was also dealing with a lot of postpartum anxiety that I didn't recognize until much later. And so even when he did sleep a little bit longer, I was up panicking that he wasn't breathing. I'm sure every parent can relate, at least every mom can relate.
00:12:25
Speaker
And so I remember I went back on a Tuesday and on Friday I was in person at a client meeting and I just remember feeling like I was in a big fog, kind of that dreamlike state when you're just so tired and you don't know how to relate to anybody around you. And I remember seeing people from my client organization who I knew
00:12:46
Speaker
Um, but I hadn't seen in four months and my brain was so tired. I just didn't even remember their names. Um, and it was just too soon. You know, it was just too soon to be at a client meeting and nobody forced me to be there. Yeah. But I just kind of jumped right back in, um, and found that it was really difficult. I found that my brain was not only tired, but also
00:13:06
Speaker
full of other stuff. So I was fortunate to be able to breastfeed both of my children. And then my work was very accommodating with pumping. And this was back pre-COVID with my first child. So I was in the office five days a week. And I was pumping two to three times a day. So you were in the office? I was back then, yeah. OK. So that adds a whole other layer of, yeah.
00:13:32
Speaker
of complexity with packing lunches and snacks for myself and trying to stay sufficiently hydrated. In the
Balancing Work and Parenting
00:13:41
Speaker
consulting environment, consulting gets a bad rap for being one of those industries where the work-life balance is really terrible. I'll say I'm very fortunate in my role and in my organization that that's not my experience, but it is busy and it can be a little bit unpredictable.
00:13:57
Speaker
sometimes I'm on calls for six hours straight and trying to step away and pump in a different room. It's like I would have my laptop and my headphones on and I'd be pumping and trying to make sure nobody could hear the pump. And it was chaos. It was chaos. And it was really, really challenging. It took a big toll on me. It took a toll on my marriage. And until I was sleeping better, I just was not myself. It feels like you're just surviving. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:27
Speaker
And then the second time was completely different. And I think, for me, the biggest two reasons were, number one, I was working from home. So I was working from home the day that I went into labor. I had worked that day. And then I didn't have to worry about being uncomfortable in the office. I was bouncing on my ball and whatever in my yoga pants, my maternity yoga pants.
00:14:53
Speaker
And then when I returned to work after maternity leave, I was just returning at home. So I had some flexibility. I could go into the office if I wanted, but I was in a different role then with a different team. And that role was largely remote. So very different experience and also a very different child. I think this may be jumping ahead to another question that we'll get to, but my kids are very different.
00:15:19
Speaker
My son who was my first born was, as I said, not a great sleeper early on. I just couldn't get the kid to do what the book said he was supposed to do in terms of sleeping five, six hours a night or whatever, taking consistent naps. That just didn't happen for him until a little bit later. I was really down on myself. I felt very responsible. I kept thinking, I just am terrible at this. What's wrong with me?
00:15:43
Speaker
And the second time around, I didn't do anything different. And that child slept four hours through the night, her first night on the planet. And so that wasn't my doing. And it got better from there. And so I was sleeping, and I was just in a completely different state of mind. So I think those two variables, for me personally, were the big reasons why my experience was so different. Like sleep and having the flexibility and comfort of working from home just made all the difference. Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
a very exciting for me to hear because I had a very tough transition from I mean, I only have one child but that transition going back to work and really just transition at all into motherhood like going from not a mom one day to being a mom the next day I thought like identity wise like who I was as a person, the very foundation of it was like just
00:16:38
Speaker
Crumbling. I didn't know who I was. So that transition was really hard, but more specifically what we were talking about, the transition back to work, I thought was really, really hard. So that gives me hope that maybe the second time around it wouldn't be so crazy. I think very much to your point of going back into an office five days a week, that is not for the faint of heart. And I know that that in the past has been a much more common thing than it is
00:17:08
Speaker
today because so many more places have work from home options, or as you were saying, facing back into work was, you know, before that really wasn't maybe as common. I was starting a brand new job off maternity leave. And so there wasn't an option to work from home yet. And I had barely even been in the building, let alone the office. So I just visualizing going from 24 seven with this baby that I was responsible for to
00:17:36
Speaker
all of a sudden I have to spend eight hours a day away from him in an office that I've never even seen before. That transition was traumatic. I found it really, really hard. It gives me hope to know that maybe next time it'll be easier. It also just gave me so much respect for my other friends and coworkers who were parents.
00:18:03
Speaker
One of my best coworker friends for many years, for many years now, she has three children. And when I had my first, hers were, you know, obviously several years younger than they are now. And one of them was a toddler, one of them was a preschooler. And I remember when I returned to work just being amazed that she woke up in the morning, spent her entire morning trying to get these three children ready for school, daycare, whatever, you know, wherever they were going. And then she sorted out herself
00:18:32
Speaker
And then she drove into work every day. I was just so impressed and in awe of her because I had this one child and I would wake him up and I would nurse him once or twice and prepare his bottles for the day and get him dressed in all those little things, change the diaper four times before you get out the door. And then I would get myself. But I was just like, oh my gosh, multiply that by two more children. That's a lot of work. And that's such a huge transition
00:19:00
Speaker
when you're going back to work and you already have to think about all of the logistical things required, but you already have to get back into the mindset of like, okay, which snacks am I going to need? Do I have my laptop, my charger, my pens, whatever it might be. And then you also on top of that have to think about a whole other human and all of their needs for that day. Yeah. Yeah. My coworkers and I, I'm very lucky that my coworkers are also
00:19:25
Speaker
moms with young children, like we're all in the kind of the same phase, we're like in it together. And oftentimes we get to work and we collapse in our offices and we look at each other at nine. And we're like, did we just live an entire day already? Like, yeah, we're just starting work. And it's like, I swear, I've already ran a marathon. And, you know, done a million other things. And it's not even nine. Yep, yep. I feel that I feel that. Yeah. Okay. So speaking of
00:19:50
Speaker
Daycare and getting your kids out the door. Are your kids do they stay at home with a nanny? Like what is there? Where are they when you're working? What are they doing? Yep, we have always had our kids in daycare since we've moved We found obviously a different daycare here in Pennsylvania, but they've always been full-time daycare kids And so that's fun. They will say that now that they're a little bit bigger and
00:20:13
Speaker
it feels a little easier than it used to because we're not dealing with milk and bottles and diapers anymore. We're out of those stages and we've begun a new stage. But yeah, very much daycare kids. That's fun in a lot of ways. My son is also a daycare kid for the most part. We have kind of a hybrid schedule. But yeah, he's in daycare more than he's not. And boy, do you guys deal with the sickness like we do?
00:20:41
Speaker
So I don't know what's up with my kids, but we've been very lucky this last year. I don't know if we have hit a threshold. I've heard a lot of people say that once your kid hits four things get better and and my son is now, you know, four and a half. So maybe we've gotten there. I don't know. I don't know. I hope that for you. Thank you. I do too. I do too. But I will say when I made the decision. So like I said, when when we were talking about moving to Pennsylvania, my husbands wanted to do this for a long time.
00:21:10
Speaker
And I was resistant for a really long time. And the straw that broke the camel's back for me was this long stretch of maybe six weeks when my daughter just kept getting sick. And it was nothing scary, nothing. She didn't need to be hospitalized. I was very, very lucky. But it was just fever after fever, after stomach flu, after whatever other thing she couldn't go to daycare with.
00:21:36
Speaker
exhausted and stressed and I felt overburdened. It was the end of the year. I'd already used up most of my PTO in my sick time. And I just reached a point where I was just like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I wish we had family around. And so that was kind of my breaking point. But it's been generally better since then. She's the one who gets sick a little more often. But the daycare illness, it's brutal for a while. It really is. But I promise you do come out of it.
00:22:04
Speaker
I am also, I'm, that is another thing you're telling me that makes me hopeful because now I will say, um, he's been there. It's August. Um, so it's been a while and he's, it's definitely gotten better. Like at the beginning, it was truly every week with something new. Um, but it's definitely gotten better. Um, but it's hard. It's really hard. And that is one thing people gave me a lot of warnings about being a parent and, you know,
00:22:30
Speaker
all the scary things and the hard things about having kids. But I don't know that that that one was not one that I think was stressed too much, like how often kids get sick, especially kids who are in daycare. And it not only takes a physical toll on you, of course, but mentally, I mean, it feels like it's just such a you feel like even though you know, in your head, they're going to get better, you know, a week from now, hopefully, they'll be better. And this will get out of this dark phase that we're in right now. But yeah,
00:22:59
Speaker
it, when you're in it, it feels like it's never going to end. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, something that can make it tougher for working moms specifically is when we are the comforter for the kids. And this isn't every single family, right? Like, you know, not every family looks like this. Not every family, you know, has the exact same relationships, whatever with the kids, but where the mom tends to be the more like comforter of the babies, especially when they're littler.
00:23:29
Speaker
And mom also has paid sick time and a little bit of flexibility with her job. I feel like the mom is the one who's more likely to stay home. For me, I know that's the case in my family because logistically, that's how it works out with our jobs. And also, when my kids are sick, especially when they were littler, they wanted mommy. And so I think that takes a big toll because you're the one who is more often sacrificing at work for that. And I think women already deal with
00:23:58
Speaker
some level of insecurity, whether it's self-imposed or guilt that other people kind of put on you at work, depending on your work environment. But we already deal with some level of insecurity about our commitment to work and parenthood and how we try to kind of reconcile that. And so I think the daycare illness thing just makes it so hard. Yeah, exactly. Because like you said, you want to be there for your
00:24:24
Speaker
Kyle, like you're their mom. You want to be the one who's there when they're sick and taking care of them. But at the same time, if you don't have a job that's flexible or that you don't have the sick time to take or the PTO to take, it can be so, it can be so hard to make that choice when you already feel like you might feel guilty about, you know, working or staying at home or whatever the case may be. Like it's, it makes an already difficult situation even harder. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:52
Speaker
But there are benefits. I mean, we went back and forth a lot on the benefits between nanny versus daycare. And we still have a nanny one day a week and then he's with my mom one day a week while she's been here. But yeah, I think the benefits have outweighed the downside of being sick to us in terms of sending him to daycare. Like I'm still really glad that he's there because I think he's having a blast.
00:25:22
Speaker
Same. My kids love it. My kids, yeah, they love their friends. My son calls his buddies, his brothers. That's so cute. Yeah. So now that you guys are closer to family, if the kids do get sick, is that, has that been a bit easier because you kind of have a parent or a grandparent at this point to call on? Drastically easier. Yeah. So we actually have both sets of grandparents here in town within literal walking distance. So
00:25:49
Speaker
My husband and kids and I are temporarily living with my parents while we build a house. And then my in-laws moved back to the area last year as well. So we can kind of split the day sometimes. Sometimes one of my in-laws will come over here if a kid is napping and my dad needs to be out or whatever. But my dad works from home, so he has a lot of flexibility. My mom is soon to be retired. I think she's got like another week or so left.
00:26:16
Speaker
So knowing that this was the way that our kind of grandparent trajectory was going, we knew that it was a strategic move to come back here. And we've definitely reached the benefits of having the grandparents close by, both for sick days and then all the other myriad of reasons. That's so nice. Having grandparents or any sort of family help is so helpful.
Daily Routine and Family Support
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:44
Speaker
And I never understood the expression. It takes a village more until I had, I meant like it's being able to call on parents, your grand, their grandparents, your parents to come help or any family or really anyone like a village looks different for everybody. Um, but I'm very, feel very blessed to have grandparents were very active in his life. Um, even if they don't live here full time, they're so very involved. So.
00:27:11
Speaker
I can, I can totally understand why you guys made them move. I think that sounds like an amazing thing for your family. Um, okay. So you guys there, the kids are in daycare full time. You work from home. Um, what does your kind of daily schedule look like with them? Like the, from wake up to putting the kids to bed, like how do you and your husband kind of juggle the
00:27:37
Speaker
all of the things, all the household tasks, the mental load of this life, the parenthood life. Yeah. Um, so on a day to day basis, we've kind of fallen into a bit of a routine. Um, I wouldn't say that it applies every single day. We try to, um, you know, leave a little bit of flexibility in there. Um, generally, so my kids have been in this phase the last couple of months where they wake up at five 45 or six in the morning, which is kind of brutal. Um, I'm not a morning person.
00:28:06
Speaker
So my job in the mornings is to put them back to bed or snuggle with them till 6.30. So we use the hatch nightlight if you're familiar. It's the one that, yeah, you can program it so it turns green in the morning or whatever color you want. So my kids know when their lights turn green, they can get up and that happens at 6.30. So I keep them in bed until 6.30, which allows me to lay there and be lazy for a little bit longer.
00:28:31
Speaker
My husband usually gets up at six. He'll go downstairs, start prepping lunches and breakfast. He's the cook of the house. Then when I'm ready to get up with the kids, I get them dressed, teeth brushed, and I usually have some help here and there. If grandma's around, grandma's got to brush teeth and brush hair. It's different when she does it, of course. Yes, of course. And then we go downstairs, eat breakfast. My husband goes upstairs and gets ready. He needs to leave for work a little bit earlier than I do.
00:28:59
Speaker
or then I take the kids out to their daycare, so he leaves, and then if the kids have enough time after breakfast, they play for a little bit, and then my dad has been joining me on daycare drop-offs for the last eight or nine months or so, so he'll come with me to drop off the kids, and then I usually can start my day by eight or 8.15.
00:29:24
Speaker
full disclosure, drop off at daycare with unbrushed teeth and my hair at a ponytail and leggings at a pajama top. And some days I get myself ready before. It just kind of depends on how the day is going and how the mood is. But that's kind of our day to day. And then weekends are flexible. Yeah.
00:29:43
Speaker
That's nice. And who do you pick up the gifts or does your husband, was he able to pick them up on his way from home? He picks them up. So he works actually really close to their daycare. Um, and so it would be easier in some ways if he would do the drop off in the morning, but it's kind of nice. It's a nice excuse for me to get out of the house and then a little bit more time since he has to be at work early. So he does pick up, which gives me another, you know, 10, 15 minutes to be able to work, um, at the end of my day. Nice, nice. And then is he in charge of dinner since you said he's the cook of the family?
00:30:13
Speaker
Well, so since we're living with my parents, we're on a bit of a, we all kind of try to take ownership of it. So we try to create a meal plan over the weekend and do the grocery shopping. I'm probably the one who does it the most often, but we, you know, change it up. And then everybody has their day, Monday through Thursday. Everybody gets a day to cook. Fridays are usually, we've always done Friday night.
00:30:38
Speaker
for Fridays, which is fish sticks in the oven, tater tots in the oven, and then I just pick a bag of like frozen peas, frozen carrots, whatever it may be, and throw it on the stove and steam them or whatever. So Friday is usually easy or sometimes we'll go out to eat. Yeah. But my husband definitely does most of the cooking and most of the meal prep, like on weekends and stuff like that. And then he has most of the lunches and breakfasts too. Yeah, I think that that's meal prepping and a lot of
00:31:07
Speaker
doing the heavy lifting on the weekend to kind of ease the weekday meals and cooking. I think that that has been something that's proven really helpful for us. We try to do it, but at the same time, it's kind of hard. Cause you know, you want to actually enjoy your weekends and not spend the whole weekend prepping for the next week. So we try to have a balance on the weekends of like doing fun stuff, spending time with Emma and not just going to the grocery store and planning our meals for the, for the next week. But it does certainly make the week a lot easier when we've done the work on the weekends. Yeah.
00:31:36
Speaker
The other thing that we'll do is sometimes spend time in the evenings together after the kids have gone to bed meal prepping or maybe he's meal prepping and I'm just hanging out. And so we'll do have, you know, chop the veggies or, you know, prepare the sauce or something like that. So that meal assembly the next day is quick and easy. And you've kind of done the heavy lifting the night before. Yeah, that's a good point too. Yeah. Do you like how, okay. So when you guys want to do something, just the two of you.
00:32:05
Speaker
you and your husband, how do you make that happen? I guess it's easier now that you're with your parents. It's easier now, yeah. We try to cycle between the grandparents in our household because there's all six of us living here and all the adults are going in a million directions every day. We have a written calendar that lives on the side of the fridge and everybody is obligated to fill out at the beginning of the month or as early as they know, whatever they have coming up.
00:32:35
Speaker
We haven't had a whole lot of trouble securing babysitters just because there's enough people around. Part of living in a small town in a rural area means that we just don't have as many options for going out. We're located right in the center of our little town and going up to get a drink is literally walking a block and a half up the street.
00:32:58
Speaker
We haven't done anything too drastic. We've gone away a couple of weekends, I guess. Having the family around has just meant that it's pretty easy. I'll say, I have a lot of friends. Now that we're coming up on a year since we've moved, I have a lot of friends who are like, okay, how's it feeling? Are you glad that you made the move? And I feel like the biggest thing that I feel, because we're still kind of in flux. We don't have our own house yet. There's just a lot changing at all times.
00:33:29
Speaker
But one of the biggest things that I feel is just a little bit more free within motherhood. I felt like I was a little bit, I don't wanna say this and then be too dramatic, but like a little suffocated by it when we lived in Virginia because I just felt, gosh, my kids are so little. It's so hard to get out with both of them. It's so hard to get away for a night with my husband. I just felt like I just didn't have as much freedom to kind of be myself and I have a lot more
00:33:58
Speaker
freedom here, whether it's random bits of free time that I find in the day because somebody's reading to that kid and somebody's got that kid out on an errand or just how easy it is now to get out of the house and actually go on a date and spend some quality time away from everybody. Yeah, I can totally relate to that. I felt like that too, especially when he was a lot littler. It's hard. It's hard to find. And then don't let me put my own guilt on you, but I had the feeling of
00:34:26
Speaker
because I was working full time when I was home with him. Like if I was not spending every waking moment with him, I felt so guilty about not, like if I needed to go out and run an errand, I felt so guilty for doing that because I hadn't been with him all week because I had been working. Did you ever feel like that when they were little? Yes, and I still feel that. I think it's probably subsided a little bit with time. Some of that might just be
00:34:56
Speaker
I've gotten used to it and so I try to ignore it a little bit. Maybe I'm a little better at ignoring it and some of it might just be because they're bigger and they don't need me to the extent they did when they were tiny, but that's so real. I think it's something that a lot of moms feel and a lot of dads don't feel, at least just based on my experience. When that's what the family structure looks like, it seems like people experience that level of guilt differently.
00:35:25
Speaker
always been something that I've had to work through. And I feel like my husband has been very supportive in just being like, stop feeling guilty. You know that the kids are fine. They love you. They're going to be excited to see you tomorrow or later tonight or wherever it may be. Yeah. Yeah. That is something that I definitely am still working through. But it's definitely gotten better than before, especially now that I
00:35:54
Speaker
I'm allowed to work from home two days a week. So I do see him a little bit more, but it used to feel like, gosh, I don't see him more than I do see him. And then I'm going to take the time I have for him and I'm going to do something else. Even though I knew logically, like, you know, you need to do things for yourself. You need to fill your own cup too. It still was like, I think a lot of times people, um, like motherhood is kind of painted as like a sacrifice. Like everything should be a sacrifice of yourself for your kids. And I,
00:36:24
Speaker
It is that in a lot of ways, but it doesn't always have to be that, I guess, is what I keep trying to tell myself. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that really helped me, well, I won't say early on because when my son was an infant, that was kind of when COVID was like really the most intense.
Self-care and Motherhood Challenges
00:36:44
Speaker
And so probably should have said that earlier on when I was talking about my postpartum experience, but you know, he turned
00:36:51
Speaker
six months old in March of 2020. So he was just at the age where like I was coming out of the postpartum sleep deprivation and kind of coming out of the fog and coming back into the world and all of a sudden we couldn't go anywhere or do anything. But as restrictions lifted and we sort of went back to a slightly more normal way of life and then certainly after my second was born, something that really helped me was having one appointment out of the house every single week. For me, that's been yoga.
00:37:19
Speaker
It could look different for anybody. It could be like maybe you have another mom friend and you go on a walk every Tuesday at 5 or whatever. For me, it's been those yoga classes. One a week was all I could manage logistically and guilt wise, but it allowed me to say, that is my night, that I know I'm away. I'm not responsible for bedtime. I'm not responsible for whatever happens after bedtime. I'm away for that time and I'm doing something for myself.
00:37:43
Speaker
Um, and I feel like that was a really nice way to kind of ease me back into, um, doing things that felt good for me and not feeling as guilty about it. Yeah. I feel like that's always my, my advice to people who are in that phase is just pick one appointment. It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter if you're with somebody, like just pick it and everybody needs to kind of respect it, including you. Yeah, that's, I love that. I think that's such a good concrete piece of advice. For me, it would probably be going to get
00:38:09
Speaker
an iced coffee. Just going for a walk down the street, getting a coffee and coming back. I remember the first time I did that after I had Emmet and it felt like a new person. I was like, oh, this is Jordan. Jordan walks to get an iced coffee and she comes out. It's so easy. I forgot about her. Yeah. You don't have to carry all the stuff. Yeah. It's just you. It's so much easier to take care of yourself than it is to take care of yourself and another human. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No. Yeah.
00:38:40
Speaker
a long time to be able to go in an errand with just me and Emmett. The whole thing of putting the stroller in the car and loading him into his car seat and then getting the diaper bag. That was overwhelming the thought of it for a while. Me too. Me too. I made the silly mistake early on, so with my first, of not getting the infant car seat that removes from the base.
00:39:04
Speaker
We just got one of those car seats that just sits in the car, and you can't remove it, and it doesn't connect to the stroller. And I just didn't know any better. And every time I went somewhere, it was like, OK, now I have to get the carrier out, and I got to wake him up from the nappies in and put him in the carrier. And it woke him up, and it was just like, it was so much more stressful that way. But I've seen stuff on social media about celebrating those little new mom wins. And that's a perfect example, the first time you go out with them by yourself.
00:39:33
Speaker
The first time you, if you're nursing or breastfeeding your baby, the first time you do that in public and kind of sort it all out, those little things are really big milestones. The first time you take a car seat out of the car by yourself and put it back in, I'm going to be honest, I still don't do that. I haven't met that milestone. The first time you open the stroller by yourself in a Target parking lot, you know what I mean? Those are big milestones, but nobody really talks about them.
00:40:02
Speaker
And other people might just brush them off, but that's a big mental hurdle to get over sometimes. Yes. Yes. The first time you cook a meal in your house with the newborn, that was a really hard thing for me to ... How am I going to cook and watch this baby? But one day, just strapped him into his ... I had a baby wearing one of those wrap things. Yeah. And he slept on me and I cooked and I felt
00:40:25
Speaker
like a superhero after I did that. It was probably some really easy meal. I don't think it was anything complex. It was probably honestly a frozen pizza that I put in the oven, but I still felt really good about it. I remember my first attempt at that. It was a fail because my son was just really fussy that day, and I don't know why. I don't remember what was going on.
00:40:46
Speaker
But my in-laws had been in town and they went out for like a couple of hours just to get out of the house and give me some space. And I was by myself and my husband was back at work. It was I think his first day back at work or first week back at work. And I couldn't get this baby to stop crying and I couldn't cook this dang quinoa. And my in-laws came back. I just stopped the quinoa halfway throughout. I just stopped it. I went into my room.
00:41:07
Speaker
I took the baby out of the carrier and I was holding him and trying to nurse him and calm him down and I was just like bawling my eyes out when my mother-in-law walked in and she's like, what is happening? You know? It's so hard and quinoa is really hard to cook even without it. It just was like, for me it was like, that's like the bare minimum thing. Like I was just so hungry and I couldn't make it happen.
00:41:29
Speaker
And obviously, all the emotion was just sort of building from the anticipation of my husband going back to work and the baby was passing that day and all of those various things. Plus, I wasn't sleeping. It was like three or four weeks in when I feel like the sleep deprivation starts to feel real. But I eventually met that milestone. That one day was a fail, but it got better after that. And I think that's OK to acknowledge, too, is that sometimes you can't do that stuff. And so sometimes you really do need to just either ask for help or
00:41:59
Speaker
lower your standards and eat a granola bar for dinner. Yeah, that's so true. Did you guys have anybody like staying with you to help when you had like in those first few weeks after you had either of your children? So when we had my son, my in-laws came and stayed for I think five weeks, almost straight, but they weren't staying in our house. They had an RV that they camped at a campground nearby. And so it was kind of a nice arrangement where
00:42:27
Speaker
They had a little bit of distance. We had a little bit of distance, but then they were around. I think what made it tough, though, was that I didn't really know how to ask for what I needed or wanted. And I think I could have made better use of the fact that they were nearby if I'd been in a better state of mind. And I don't necessarily look at that and say, oh, what it could have showed up. I feel like I did the best I could with
00:42:53
Speaker
where I was at. But it is something that I think could have gone a little differently because they were so willing to help. They were happy to do whatever I needed. But I didn't know how to ask for privacy when I needed it. I didn't know how to ask for them to do a task for me versus hold the baby. It would be like, OK, here, you hold the baby because I know you want to, and I'll go do that task. And I think that changed the second time. So the second time, we actually didn't have anybody stay with us long term.
00:43:21
Speaker
but we did have family cycling in and out. I do have a sister-in-law in Richmond who was super lovely and helpful. She was the reason that I was able to go give birth in the middle of the night because she stayed with my son. She was always around and helpful despite a very busy schedule for her. She was probably the most consistently
00:43:46
Speaker
you know, consistent person we had around. And by then I, you know, I'd learned to ask for what I needed. And she seemed to be very in tune with, with me by that point. So that was really helpful. Yeah, that is really helpful. And especially to know, like you were saying, what to even ask for, I feel like I struggled with that too. Yeah.
00:44:07
Speaker
Cause you just don't, you know, you need help. Like, you, like that, that concept, like cool sort of clicks. Like, yeah, I need help. There are things that I can't do and other things I can do, but you to like, have a concrete task for somebody to do was hard. Um, and I think my mom, my mom stayed with us when we had Emmett, actually both my parents did, I should say, um, my dad was kind of coming and going from North Carolina as needed, but, um, my mom was with us.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I think she started to see that like, I was not verbalizing what exactly I needed everyone's help with. And so she I think just like went to my dad and was like, Okay, listen, your task is going to be taking the dog out every day and taking the trash out every day. That's what we Jordan needs you to do that. And then she said to, you know, anybody else who came, if you could do this, that would be great. And she was kind of my voice until I could hear it myself. Huge. Yeah. And now I think I hope, you know,
00:45:03
Speaker
if there's a second time around that I would be better about that. But it's really hard and you're in the fog and you're not, everything is in such a weird haze that like you're in this like newborn bliss with this new baby that you love so much, but you're also like, so I was just, I, when I look back at that time, like it just seems very hazy. Like, yeah, I was just kind of floating through and getting by half the sleep most of the time.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yeah, kind of confused. I don't know how else to say it besides my whole life just turned inside out. And I was very thrown off by the physical recovery of it all, too. There's so much on top of it. And I didn't have a C-section, so I did not have a surgery scar to deal with, which I feel like would be even harder.
Breastfeeding and Postpartum Anxiety
00:45:53
Speaker
But I was just very thrown off, but I didn't know what to expect. I don't feel like I'd gotten any
00:45:59
Speaker
education or advice on that early on. And so when I was trying to care for myself, even the first time you go pee is a whole big deal, right? And then just layering the ice pack with the witch hazel pads, all of those things that you've got that mesh diaper on. That whole experience really threw me off. I just did not, I don't know, I wasn't ready for it.
00:46:26
Speaker
And I was in pain for a while. I'd had some tearing. And so that physical recovery, I think, just added a whole layer for me that I wasn't prepared for. I didn't feel comfortable speaking up and asking for what I needed, but I was still trying to do stuff for myself. And then that kind of prolonged the physical recovery. And I don't know if that was your experience. I've heard it from other people who have had kind of a similar, like, really, I just didn't really know that that was
00:46:55
Speaker
I don't know. Nobody prepares you for that. They prepare you for the baby and the labor itself, but not so much that early couple of weeks where you could be in a lot of pain or just feel like your body's not yours. Yes. That's exactly what you just said. I didn't feel like I knew what was this body. I don't know her. When I looked down and I didn't feel comfortable, I was lucky I didn't have a lot of pain. I also didn't have a C-section or anything.
00:47:23
Speaker
I think I recovered pretty quickly. I don't remember a lot of pain. But what the thing that I thought was very physically difficult, and mentally and emotionally, but physically was breastfeeding. I was not prepared, I think for how difficult that would be to get used to. And talk about not feeling like your body's your own. That was really hard for me. And I found it very painful at first until I could kind of get in
00:47:51
Speaker
You know, until we figured it out, Emmett and I, that was really hard. Um, and I, I definitely did not think it would be as hard as it was. And I was really committed to doing it. Like I really desperately wanted to do it. Um, and luckily, you know, we pushed through, but there were definitely a few times where he was screaming and I was crying and I thought, I said to my mom, like, I just milk everywhere, everywhere. I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And my mom, you know, like,
00:48:21
Speaker
She was super supportive and she, we ended up reaching out to a lactation consultant who came over to the house and she helped us through and that was a lifesaver. And she was also the one who, and this touches back to something you were talking about earlier, who kind of, I was kind of venting to her about breastfeeding being difficult, but really just all the things being difficult. Specifically, I had a lot of anxiety about Emmett not breathing while he was sleeping.
00:48:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I said that to her and this, I think I was three or probably three weeks postpartum, maybe almost four. Um, and I said to her, you know, I had so much anxiety. I can't sleep because I'm just so worried about him not breathing. And I said, I know it's just baby blues and it'll get better. And she was like, I think maybe it's a little bit more than that. I think maybe it sounds like some postpartum anxiety. And she was the one who referred me.
00:49:14
Speaker
to a therapist that helped immensely going forward, but I also was not prepared for the anxiety portion of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wish that I had had somebody say something to me in the way that that lactation consultant said something to you. I had a panic moment. My son was, I think, three months old. He was chunky.
00:49:42
Speaker
He was very healthy. And he went through a, what do they call it? A breastfeeding strike. I don't know if Emmett ever did that, but he went through a strike and there was like two or three days where like the kid would not latch. And I was like, oh my gosh, something's wrong. You know, of course I'm panicking. And I went to, and of course at this time I'm in the throes of all of the behavioral health stuff that I was dealing with. I think it was probably a complex mix of postpartum depression and anxiety and like anger, rage, whatever. I was just very irritable.
00:50:12
Speaker
Um, and I went to the pediatrician's office and they had to see the lactation consultant. She was confirmed that the latch was fine. He was fine. The weight was fine. There was nothing wrong with my child or with me. It was just, you know, this, this random strike that apparently babies do sometimes, um, based on their developmental stage or whatever. Again, something else nobody tells you about, but exactly. Exactly. Yeah. $120 later. Um, but the, the lactation consultant did say.
00:50:41
Speaker
Are you depressed? And in my head, I was like, I'm not sad. No, I'm not depressed. And so I said no. And then I thought more about it. And I was like, no, I'm not depressed, but I'm not OK. I'm angry all the time. I'm micromanaging everybody around me in the hopes that it'll help this child sleep an extra 20 minutes. I'm frustrated by anything that goes wrong, any potential
00:51:08
Speaker
anything that I thought was triggering him to cry or upsetting him or whatever, I was blaming other people and including myself. And when I really wished that, I appreciated that she had asked me that question, but I kind of wished that it had been phrased a little differently or that maybe she'd said something that would have been a little less of a closed-ended question, you know? Yeah. Because it was so easy for me to just say like, no, I'm not depressed.
00:51:36
Speaker
Right. And then that was it, you know? Right. Yeah, I think because when you hear the word depression, like you're saying, you think just being sad or like, my postpartum therapist asked me, did I think I had postpartum OCD? And I'm picturing, you know, the more typical things you see in somebody who's OCD, like checking things a certain number of times. And I was like, no. And then come to find out, she's like, well, actually, some of the things
00:52:05
Speaker
that you're describing kind of overlap between postpartum anxiety and postpartum OCD. And so, yeah, I think nowadays there's more resources and there's more light shed on the different things you can experience postpartum, but the title of what it is or the name for it, it's a little confusing because it's not exactly what it sounds like, or it's maybe not exactly what it is if you're not postpartum. Yeah. If that makes sense.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I don't think there's enough education that people get in preparation for those tough postpartum days. I think other mom friends and also providers want to strike a balance between making somebody paranoid about what might happen. You don't want to be that friend who tells your friend about your experience, and you get the response that's like, well, don't traumatize me now. Why are you telling me all these horrible things that are going to happen? Just be positive.
00:53:03
Speaker
But you also want them to know what can happen. And so I think it's such a tricky balance that providers and friends alike have to strike. And maybe it just varies person to person what folks are comfortable hearing. But I totally agree. I think postpartum mental health is so complex.
00:53:24
Speaker
and you can never be prepared. I mean, unless you're on your second, third, fourth child and you know what you've gone through before, it's just really hard. And I think even still, it's probably tough to navigate the system, get the right care that you need. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the right answer is. I know in the hospital, maybe they had you do this too. There was just a form that I had to fill out, like a little questionnaire that was like yes or no for each of these questions.
00:53:50
Speaker
I was like, you know, 24 hours post birth and it was like, are you having that? You know, like all these like just generic questions. And I don't know what I'm having thoughts of right now. But no, there wasn't a specific question that was like, are you terrified your child is going to stop breathing in the middle of the night? Yes or no. That wasn't a question. So I didn't and maybe at that point, I wouldn't even know that known that I was a fear of mine.
00:54:14
Speaker
I just feel like that questionnaire with just some basic yes or no questions, and that's the screening for postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, and that was it. That was the form I filled out, and then they checked me out of the hospital the next day, and then the next time I saw my doctor was six weeks later, and he just checked to make sure everything was good down there, and then he was like, all right, good luck. That's what I was like. What I will say is, and this is part
00:54:40
Speaker
personal experience, part work experience, talking here, I think the world is slowly gonna realize that that level of postpartum care is insufficient, right? For many, many reasons. There's actual statistics that show that the majority of maternal mortality actually occurs in the postpartum period, like in that first actually full year up to a full year after the baby is born.
00:55:08
Speaker
And a lot of it happening in those kind of first six weeks. And so not seeing the birthing parent for the first six weeks or until that six week mark is really like you're missing a lot of opportunities to support people both physically and also emotionally. One of the other things about my second child or child or my second birth experience that I didn't mention was that I saw a totally different type of provider in a totally different setting.
Midwifery vs Hospital Birth Experiences
00:55:35
Speaker
So both times I saw midwives, but the first time it was a hospital setting, I ended up with a, I'll call it like a light induction and an epidural. And it went totally fine and was healthy and whatever, but it kind of was that typical experience where you leave, they give you a giant pamphlet of information. I remember them talking at us for like 20 minutes before I was discharged and not retaining any of it. And then six weeks later you have a visit.
00:56:03
Speaker
The second time around, I saw a different type of midwife, a certified professional midwife practice out of Richmond. It's a small midwifery practice of just two midwives, maybe three at the time, and they had a birth center. And they do a lot of home births as well. And so I actually delivered at the birth center. And the model of care there was just different. They had a building
00:56:29
Speaker
Um, where they had, you know, just strictly prenatal visits and you would, you were encouraged to bring your children. There were toys, there were books for them to play with. It was intended to be like a whole family kind of activity and whole family care, even though it was of course, centering around the pregnancy and me as the birthing person. And then the delivery experience was totally different. I, um, you know, again, this is something I was very fortunate to experience because I was low risk.
00:56:53
Speaker
And I understand this is not an option for everybody. It's also not the experience everybody wants. But for me, it was right. And I think that's what's key. So at the birth center, there was a big tub. And I labored 95% of my labor probably was at home. I didn't realize that when we were in the car, I was in transition.
00:57:12
Speaker
And then by the time we got to the birth center, they were like, OK, before you get in the tub, we're going to monitor for a couple of minutes. And then we don't have to monitor as much. They wanted to monitor through a couple of contractions. So they were like, when you get in the tub, we won't have to monitor quite as often. And while they were monitoring before I got in the tub, my body started pushing on its own. This is just an aside because I think it's so interesting. And so I was only at the birth center for about 30 minutes before I delivered my daughter. And when she was born, you know,
00:57:40
Speaker
We waited for the placenta to be born. We held her for a little while in the water. Well, I held her in the water. And then when we were all kind of getting ready to move on to the next step, they helped me get out of the tub. I walked and laid into like a big full-size bed. And I sat there and I nursed her for the first time. The midwives went and made me breakfast. And then like an hour later, I was home.
00:58:05
Speaker
So the entire experience at the birth center was, I guess we hung out for a little while just to make sure that my son was already at daycare, but it was like a four hour experience where I was outside of the home and then everything else happened at home, mostly in my living room and my bedroom. And so, you know, being able to come back to a place where I was really comfortable versus the hospital setting where I was really uncomfortable was different. And then the midwife came and visited me at home that day, checked the baby, checked me,
00:58:34
Speaker
talk to me about my postpartum care, talk to me about any concerns that I had with the baby, any concerns that I had with whoever was going to be visiting and how my spouse and I had done that day and those kinds of things. It was just a different model of care. It wasn't so clinical as it was holistic kind of person family care.
00:58:57
Speaker
So they did a home visit that day and then two days later they came back and then a week later I went to the birth center and that was like my first outing with her and I took my spouse and I took my son and it was this big family outing where we all got to go together and you know even though the purpose of the visit was you know let's make sure that the baby's vitals are good let's make sure that your vitals are good let's you know check for any of the kind of warning signs from a physical perspective it was also addressing
00:59:22
Speaker
you know, okay, how is breastfeeding going now that you're a week in and your milk has come in and how is your perineum care and like those kinds of things. And so it was just so different. And I had them on a text message basis too. So there was one night when like I passed some blood that was concerning and I texted them and they were like, okay, send me a picture of the pad. You know what I mean? It's like, you don't get that with a regular provider. And I think having that sort of consistent follow up through the postpartum period
00:59:51
Speaker
can really, really help people. So all of that to say, I think there's growing interest in a more high touch level of maternity care, but especially in the postpartum phase. And I see more interest growing from a policy legislation standpoint in the midwifery model of care. And I think there are a lot of things about the midwifery model of care that could be
01:00:19
Speaker
duplicated for people who are more comfortable in a hospital setting, are more comfortable with an OB-GYN or require that kind of care, just in terms of the high touch element and how often you're seen and those kinds of things. Yeah. There are a lot of things from that I think that could be incorporated into a traditional OB practice, let's say. Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:41
Speaker
So this also brings up something I was going to ask you about earlier. So I know right out of college you worked, I think it was right out of college that you were for midwives for Haiti. Yep. Okay. Did that influence your decision to go that route of care when you were pregnant and having your children? It did. It very much did. I mean, I think a lot of people
01:01:04
Speaker
unless you've had exposure to midwifery through somebody you know who's a midwife or through a job or something like that. Most people aren't well-informed about it. And I feel fortunate that I was. It totally convinced me that it was going to be the right route for me. The first time I was pregnant, I wanted to see a midwife because I liked that model of care. But because it was my first and I had no idea how my body would do or how the pregnancy would go or the birth or anything,
01:01:30
Speaker
we decided to stick with the hospital setting. So I did see a midwifery practice that was overseen by an OB-GYN who I knew through the organization. I knew she was midwife friendly. And the hospital was midwife friendly. And that was the way that I went about it. The delivery did not go as I expected, but it was totally healthy and fine and pleasant.
01:01:52
Speaker
Like I said, it was a kind of a light, gentle induction with an epidural and the actual birth was very calm. I remember kind of giggling and just being very present for it, which was really lovely.
01:02:11
Speaker
But then the second time, but I found myself very thrown off by being in the hospital setting. I knew that I probably would have had an unmedicated delivery had I been able to go into labor truly on my own. And just the way that things went about, I just wondered how much of the trajectory of my labor was influenced by the place that I was located in. And there's a lot more to that story that I could get into.
01:02:41
Speaker
I wondered about that. And I really wanted to try an unmedicated birth. And so that's why I made the decision the second time to go to a birth center where an epidural was not an option. But I knew that there would be a tub available to me, which was not available at the hospital that I had access to. And I knew the midwives I would have their full attention. So it very much did influence my decision to,
01:03:08
Speaker
to see a midwife originally. And then I just felt fortunate that I knew kind of what the options were and was able to adjust the second time around for something that I felt like was a better fit for me personally. I think you're right that a lot of women, I mean, personally, a lot of my friends have had that same thought about their birth experience. Like if they hadn't been induced or they hadn't, you know, whatever the case may be, if this had gone that way or if
01:03:34
Speaker
they have made this decision or their doctor had given them different advice. Like how would things have progressed differently? Um, and that can be a hard thing. I think I forget what it's called. It's almost like, I don't want to say it wrong, but it's almost like kind of, I have some friends who have like almost PTSD from their birth experience. Like it was so difficult of course, no matter what it's difficult, but they feel like they have so much, um, just,
01:04:02
Speaker
I don't know what the right word is. I think trauma is valid for a lot of people. And just so many wonders of like, if I had, I'll just use going into labor naturally as an example. Like if I had just waited and not been, if my doctor hadn't suggested I be induced, like how would things have been different? Which is a hard thing to like look back on and say, oh, you know, like you were saying, like it's all, like it's done now. So, you know, all we can do is try to heal from
01:04:28
Speaker
whatever happened. And if you can't change the past, but I do, a lot of my friends talk about that. It's like, they wonder what would have happened if they had gotten, you know, different care or different advice. And I'm not a doctor. So I certainly would not be wanting to say what, you know, their doctors sort of shouldn't have done, of course. But I, I'm glad that now, um,
01:04:49
Speaker
midwives and midwifery is becoming a little bit more common and people are being more exposed to it. And obviously you had a level of knowledge about it from your past experiences and past job, but I'm glad to know. And it's something now you're making me think about, like maybe I'm going to look up and see if there's anyone in my local area that I could talk to you about that, because it does sound like a much more holistic way of doing it and probably really healthy mentally if you could, if you're able to do it.
01:05:18
Speaker
Yeah. And I think another kind of misconception is not everybody has to go the super crunchy route of like, okay, I'm going to be at home or in a tub or whatever and not have access to any medications and stuff like that. You want to make sure that you feel comfortable with the level of pain management that is going to be accessible. And so, again, like hospital birth the first time around, epidural
01:05:42
Speaker
bit of an induction, medication was absolutely involved. I was GBS positive, so they had me on antibiotics. But I was still able to have that delivery done by a midwife. And so I think there's a lot of kind of middle in betweeny areas between full OB, fully medicated experience, and out of hospital, midwife, unmedicated experience. There's a lot of different ways that somebody's birth can look.
01:06:11
Speaker
And I'm sure, as you know, they're all unpredictable anyway, so. Yeah, yeah, I didn't really go in with much of a plan. Which is so unlike me because I plan everything else in my life, like down to a T, but I just kind of, for some reason, was not stressed about giving birth. I mean, I was nervous, but I just went in kind of, I really liked my doctor. And then of course it was, I was with like a big OB practice. And I, once I got there, of course, when I went into labor, my,
01:06:40
Speaker
the doctor I had been seeing, she wasn't on call. So I had a completely different doctor and was a male physician that I had never seen before in the office. And when I called to tell him I was coming in, he was kind of cold and kind of like, you shouldn't be coming in yet. It's going to be hours. Like you should try to stay at home. But we were like 30 to 40 minutes away from the hospital where we were living. And I was just, I was anxious. I was a new mom. I was nervous. So, um, we went in anyway and it was a good thing we did because
01:07:09
Speaker
I yeah, I'm glad I went in when I did. But he ended up being amazing. And he was just a very like calming presence. And in hindsight, I'm really glad he was the doctor on call when I delivered. But at first, I was like, Oh, no, what have I done? I went into labor when this one doctor I've never seen before. And he seems not very nice. I wanted like a warm, snuggly, friendly woman doctor who I'd seen, you know, that was the way my OB was that I had seen throughout my pregnancy. And then
01:07:38
Speaker
He was a little bit different, but actually it ended up being fine. Yeah. The other thing I feel like you're making me think about is the whole doula concept, which for me is very interconnected with midwives. But people outside of that world don't necessarily know the difference. And I feel like, again, this is kind of professional Britney and personal Britney talking. It's such a trend in the employer space right now. We're seeing a lot of groups, like a lot of employers wanting to increase access to doulas.
01:08:05
Speaker
both to better support their people so that they have happier deliveries and more empowered deliveries, but also because they're associated with some improved birth outcomes, fewer interventions, lower C-section rates, unnecessary C-section rates, things like that. So there's a lot of benefits and it's kind of a relatively low cost from an employer perspective, high reward or high potential reward kind of benefit. And it's also a really feel good benefit for members.
01:08:35
Speaker
That's amazing. I had a doula at both of my deliveries. The first time one of the unexpected things that happened was I'd hired a doula and I got to know her so well during my pregnancy. She's still one of my best friends. Then she had another client in labor. I was early. The other client was going a little bit over her due date and she just did not see it coming.
01:08:56
Speaker
So she didn't end up making my delivery, but she had a backup doula who was just so wonderful. Totally knew what I needed before I would have never known to ask. And I feel like, and then the second time around, my doula was critical. So the person that I hired the first time was able to make it the second time. And the couple of critical things she did for me were, the first one was,
01:09:20
Speaker
when I was laboring at home and like pretty positive that things were moving, she was like, okay, let me give you some suggestions of other things to try, like other positions to try laboring in, and let's see if it makes it harder. And they worked, which I think is critical. Obviously, it made labor tougher, but it made things move along, you know, progress even in even more quickly. And then the second thing that she did was like, while I was pushing, I kind of like lost my cool for a second, and like almost started hyperventilating. And she was like, Brittany, come back down.
01:09:48
Speaker
It's like those little things that if you have the right person, it doesn't necessarily have to be a dual, but if you have the right person in your birthing space to help kind of coach you through those moments, whether it's a provider that you're really comfortable with, a labor and delivery nurse that you're really comfortable with, a sister or cousin or whatever who's been through the same thing recently.
Role of Doula in Birth Experience
01:10:10
Speaker
Um, or whether it is a doula that you've hired, you know, having that person in the birthing room who knows kind of what's going on and can support you and be your like warm and fuzzy as you're saying is so, so important for, um, for your experience. I think that's so true. I have a couple of friends who had doulas. Um, I, I don't think I was able to have one. Cause I gave birth in July of 2022 and the hospital I was delivering at still had a lot of.
01:10:35
Speaker
COVID rules, they might have allowed me to have a doula and and my husband, I just don't remember. But I think they're so great to have. And I have a couple of friends who've done it and had great experiences similar to what you're saying. And I think especially if you want to try for an unmedicated birth, having that person there, who knows that that's your goal, and you want to get, you know, they can help you cross the finish line, because I'm sure there are a lot of women who go into it without being their goal. And
01:11:04
Speaker
As you know, I'm sure there are some moments where you're like, just give me the drug. And maybe they're there to help, you know, help you through it. Cause we center. Yeah, exactly. Like, like you were saying, like bring you back down. Like, okay, we're in the moment. We're getting, get through this together. Um, and they have so many useful tricks and tips for, for labor and positions like you were saying. And, um, I follow, what is her name?
01:11:33
Speaker
She's a labor and delivery nurse on Instagram. And she often talks about different birthing positions and how it might not be that the best birthing position for you or for most women even is just, you know, the traditional laboring laying down on your back, you know, with your feet up in the stirrups. Like she talks a lot about other birthing positions, which I think is really interesting too. And I'm sure Dulas have great experience in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.
01:12:00
Speaker
Um, I think they hit everything. Was there anything I'm trying to see? I know we had a whole list of things that I wanted to get through. I think we got through most of the big things. I think we got through a lot. Yeah, we did. This has been so helpful. I'm sure like, I just know that this conversation is going to be really helpful on many different levels for our listeners. So thank you so much for coming on. Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. This was such a lovely conversation. It was. I really appreciate it.
01:12:30
Speaker
That's a wrap for today's episode. We hope you enjoyed it. If you liked what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. It really does help us out. We also love nothing more than hearing from you guys. So be sure to connect with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at bestmomeverpod. Share your thoughts, suggestions, or just come by to vent about the insane thing your child did today. Because let's be honest, we all feel better knowing we're not alone.
01:12:56
Speaker
And if you have an idea for a topic you'd love for us to discuss in future episodes, or if you even want to be a guest to tell others how you do it all, email us at bestmomeverpod at gmail.com. That's bestmomeverpod at gmail.com. Big thanks to our amazing listeners for joining us today. We appreciate each and every one of you. As always, stay tuned for more Best Mom Ever goodness delivered to you weekly. And until next time, remember, you're not just a mom. You're like the best mom ever.