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Day in the Life of a Full Time Working Lawyer, Mom, and Business Owner with Jess Giesen
100 Plays1 year ago
This week we sat down with Jess Giesen to chit chat about her life as a toddler mom, full time bad ass lawyer, and business owner. She shares with us the ups and downs of her daughter's stay in the NICU, her maternity leave, the transition back to work, moving across the country, starting her clothing company, Counsel Couture Co., and the struggle to find time for herself in the midst of it all. Take a listen to hear how Jess does it all, including record this podcast with me while a crazy thunderstorm got stuck over my house. And check out Counsel Couture Co. for the cutest and wittiest law inspired apparel we have ever seen.
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Transcript
Introduction to Jess and Counsel Couture Co.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Best Mom Ever. I am really, really, really thrilled to have my friend Jess here today. Jess is a mom who also happens to be a badass lawyer. She's an in-house counsel at a 4-500 tech company, and not only that, but she's also a business owner. She's the founder of Counsel Couture Co., which is a clothing brand for lawyers, or really anyone who maybe understands like the funny inside jokes that lawyers have.
00:00:43
Speaker
I feel like um I really encourage everyone to check out their Instagram, which we'll talk about. I'm sure more um the brand in general, but everything's very like witty and sleek and modern and
Family Background
00:00:54
Speaker
really cool. So I'm really excited to hear more from Jess about how Counsel Couture came to be. But first, welcome Jess to the podcast. Thanks, Gordon. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, thanks for coming on. um We'll start with some ive kind of um kind of background for the listeners.
00:01:12
Speaker
um Well, maybe we'll just start with how many kids you have, what your family dynamic is like, and I want to hear more about your job and counselor and how that came to be too. But we'll start with start with the family stuff. So how many kids do you have? Yeah, so I have one daughter. She's a little over two. She just turned two in June.
00:01:35
Speaker
and a husband who's also a lawyer that you also know. um Yeah, and we we we we're close with my parents out here in California. So um she gets to see them almost every day. And um yeah, but I have my little my little family of three.
Early Parenthood Challenges
00:01:55
Speaker
So sweet. I remember when you had her, um she's like the cutest thing of all time, obviously. um But I think I really posting about that she she she came a little bit early, right? Yeah. Yeah. So she had a pretty ah pretty intense birth story. Sorry, I cut you off. Oh, no, no, no. That's what I was going to get getting into all that. So go for it. Yeah. So she was due July 15th, I think very close to when you were due as as well. I remember we were kind of like in tandem there. um But I got preeclampsia.
00:02:35
Speaker
kind of out of nowhere when I was at 34 weeks and my blood pressure was fine the entire pregnancy. Everything was looking great. but I saw my OB b on ah on a Friday for one of my standard checkups and I had just put on a lot of water weight really drastically. And I kind of still felt fine. My blood pressure was still good, but she was, and I give her a lot of credit for this because she just kind of anticipated what was coming. And she was hyper cautious and just said, like, get a blood pressure cuff, check your blood pressure at home. Let me know if it if it goes up at all. We'll just keep an eye on you because my next appointment with her wasn't until the week after. so
00:03:13
Speaker
I did, I went to Target, I got a blood pressure cuff and I checked my blood pressure the next day. And it was a little bit higher, but I had never had high blood pressure before. So I didn't even really understand what I was looking for, I guess. um And I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm still fine. I checked it again on the Sunday and it was high. It was like 170 over like 80 or something like that. And I didn't realize that that was really high.
00:03:40
Speaker
again, because I had never dealt with it before. and and My sister-in-law is a a nurse practitioner. She's a neonatal nurse practitioner, but obviously has a medical background. and I just texted her like, hey, is this like a bad blood pressure? and She was so sweet. She very calmly was like, that's pretty high. Why don't you go to like a CVS and like check your blood pressure at one of those like little machines they have to make sure it's not your machine and like let me know.
00:04:04
Speaker
She's like, go right now though. Calm way. And so Mike and I go, my husband Mike and I go, I check my blood pressure and it's like even higher. It was like 180 something. And I was like, that's probably not good. Um, so then I started Googling, which I probably should have done before I started Googling and I realized this is really bad.
00:04:22
Speaker
And I texted my sister-in-law again. She's like, you should call your OB right now. And I was like, okay. So I called you on call OB. They're like, why don't you come in, bring your hospital bag just in case. And I'm freaking out at this point too, because it's like six weeks before my due date. She's still super, I had so much time left, but Mike was super calm as he was through this whole thing. And we just go home, we get the hospital bag and we're like, okay.
00:04:50
Speaker
We start wrapping our minds around the fact that like she might be, ah and actually we were, we waited until she was born to to find out the sex of the baby. So we'd still didn't know if she was a ah boy or girl. So we're like, all right, we might be parents like very soon, but um yeah, we get to the hospital and things escalate from there. My blood pressure keeps going up and they keep trying to get it down and they're pumping you with like magnesium and all this different stuff. And they're like, listen, we got to induce you. So they were getting ready to induce me and still trying to get my blood pressure down simultaneously.
00:05:19
Speaker
wasn't going down fast enough. So they were like, we have to go in and do a c-section. And I will say I got to a point where I was just like, I'm gonna let go of my birth plan because I obviously have no control over this. As you know, any parents know, like you think you have control over how your pregnancy, how parenting is gonna go and you have no control. So um yeah, I quickly let go with that and I just kind of accepted, okay, I'm gonna i'm gonna have a c-section.
00:05:45
Speaker
Um, and Mike called my parents. We were still living in Florida at the time. I called my parents. He's like, baby's coming right now. And I'm amazed by them. They got on a flight at at San Francisco airport within two hours. And, uh, by the time Leo was born, like she did have to go to the NICU, but they were in my hospital room within like seven hours of like this, everything starting. It was unbelievable.
00:06:10
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so she was born six weeks early. She was tiny. Um, she was in the NICU for 27 days. So that was an experience. Um, but I mean, we are so lucky she is thriving. People are shocked when I say that she's a preemie because she's like super tall, super strong, like totally healthy. It's kind of amazing. So, um, yeah, she had a rough start. We all had a rough start, but it's actually, it's all worked out. So we're pretty lucky.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, I, I, that's what I remember you posting about. And I, I knew at the time that we were due around the same time. So when I saw that she had been born, when you posted that, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine how hard that was for you guys. Not only to become parents, like already that's so hard. The identity shift, the the struggle of that and all the newborn stuff, but then to add onto it, you know, having a NICU say and everything, I'm sure that was.
00:07:06
Speaker
really hard. I'm so glad your parents were able to be there so quickly. Thank goodness for like modern and in modern travel and all of the things that were able to happen. Yeah. The way that they did. But yeah, no, I that's, that's not the way anybody wants to start their parent journey and their mother's journey. So I would give you guys props. But Leah is so strong. She's a little fighter. She always will be. yeah that's So true. So how did you guys so she was in the NICU you said for what How many days, 27? 27 days, yeah, almost a month. Yeah. Yeah. How was it after like that transition home from the NICU? How was that for you? It was um was pretty sudden, which is interesting. And I think a lot of NICU parents have like talked about this, because this is another thing. like You start to find out like a lot of other people who's had who've had babies who were in the NICU that you just never would have known about before. But when you become you know what they call a NICU parent,
00:08:06
Speaker
You actually find this community and like what we were hearing from other people while we were still in there was like it when they're ready to go home like it starts to happen fast and like things happen fast and like you need to just be ready at any moment because like things change so quickly, like within hours while they're in the NICU. So we were kind of always hoping it would be like a couple of weeks, but they kind of said to us like ballpark, don't expect to go home before her actual due date. So we were like, Oh my God, we're going to be here for like a really long time. Are we going to be over six weeks? But, and some, some people are, but, um,
00:08:42
Speaker
we were really lucky it was it was shorter than that but we kind of there was just a day where like her she was on on breathing support for 24 days. And then it just came off. She was good. And her feeding tube came out. She was good. She was nursing. like Things just started happening quickly. And
Settling into Parenthood
00:09:01
Speaker
one of her nurses was like, tell dad to bring the car seat, because like there's a chance it could be a couple of days. And they don't give you any indication before that, because they don't want to make you know get your hopes up, make promises. They don't give any indication. I was like, what? What? What is happening? like Oh my god. And I had actually started to stay overnight. They have like a little parents room there.
00:09:21
Speaker
I had started probably like four days before that, before she she left, I had started staying pretty much, I think I maybe went home once. I had stayed like 24 hours overnight, everything, because I was determined to like have her nurse as if she was home and get her used to that. And um obviously, I'm lucky that I was able to do that. I had the support, I had time off from work, I had, because a lot of parents aren't able to do that. but like um They basically were like, this is what got her out too, because she was a they they they needed to see that she was able to eat on her own too. And because I was there doing that, they were able to see that. And they were like, get the car seat here. like things Things are going to go quickly. um And they have to do, I'm not sure if this is still the case, but they have to do a little car seat test before they can, they have to pass a couple of tests before they can go home. And one of them, is the car seat test where they eat, and then they have to sit in their car seat for 30 minutes buckled in.
00:10:16
Speaker
and not throw up basically. They have to be able to keep their food down. And when she passed the car seat test, they're like, okay, you guys are going home. We're going to start the discharge period. We're like, wait, what? Huh? Huh? What's going on? The house was still a mess. It was insane. And another crazy thing that happened while she was in the NICU was Mike ended up getting COVID from somewhere in the hospital because even though he was working, he was only working at home, coming home and then hospital.
00:10:44
Speaker
So he did have to isolate from her and from me for about 10 days. So 10 days of the time she was in the NICU, he didn't get to see her. I had to stay away for five days at one point, even though I was negative the whole time, just to be sure. um So, I mean, there was a little factor. There was that time in there that was awful. Like we really couldn't even go and see her in person. And then they had to put her in an isolation room.
00:11:07
Speaker
So there's this other layer of like it being like COVID times too, that was insane. But um this is like a long roundabout way of like answering your question that it happened so fast, but literally the day we brought her home, I'm sure this is how it is for like most parents, even if they, you know, they're bringing their baby home a few days after baby's born. and Like we get in the living room and we put her car seat down and we just look at each other. We're like, okay, what do we do now? but Like what's on the agenda? Cause she was, she had such a schedule on the NICU that we were like,
00:11:38
Speaker
They're telling us what to do there. We don't know what to do. Did we just sit down with her? And she's looking at us like, OK, I went next. um So it took it took a couple of days, I would say, to kind of get used to having her home, um because we were still so nervous, like even like letting her sleep without us being in the room, because we were just so, it's the first time she wasn't hooked up to monitors, and we didn't know what her heart rate was and her breathing. And it was a little stressful, so we did get um Do you know, like Owlette, like the the baby monitor brand, we got the little sock monitor.
00:12:15
Speaker
And, um, everyone's like, you know, they're not super reliable. They're not like FDA, like they're not supposed to be like medical devices. I was like, I do not care. I want whatever device is available. I need to know what's going on. But she was still so small that like the, this, even the smallest size didn't fit her super well.
00:12:33
Speaker
So the alarm, it would like go off a lot because she would just move it. nice We woke up so much like freaked out when it was really just like the sock was kind of falling off her foot.
Career and Maternity Leave Transition
00:12:42
Speaker
um But I would say it's it's you know too it's hard to remember. It's all kind of a blur at that point too with how tired you were. But like probably within like a couple of weeks, we like settled into feeling like we were really like home and and quote unquote normal, so to speak. But yeah, it was it was a big adjustment for sure. A lot of stress as it is for anybody. But um yeah, ah we we were I used to that outlet talk, like religiously, I was obsessed with it because I had such a bad anxiety about sleep and like, said and not you know, somehow he's going to roll over in his perfectly safe sleep environment fast net. Still, I was like, something's going to happen.
00:13:25
Speaker
And so my sister-in-law had passed down her outlet talk that she had used with her kids. And I heard prefer you know didn't really intend to use it like beforehand. I was like, oh, maybe, maybe not. And then the second I brought him home, I was like, oh, that thing's going on his butt every time he sleeps.
00:13:44
Speaker
Right. Cause you so used to be having like medical attention and people right here, everyone checking on it. And then all of a sudden it's just you guys. And you're like, we don't know. Like, is that sound normal that they're making? Like, I don't know. So many noises when they see you. So many noises. And you're like, are you okay? Like, like you said, the safe environment, you can do everything you can, like take everything out of the crib or the bassinet, like just everything you can, but you just never know. You're worried about every move that they make. It's.
00:14:15
Speaker
It's wild. Yeah. How was it for you guys taking taking him home? ah Very similar, only in that, I mean, we we got home and like you said, we like put him down, we were like, what are, we should not be trusted with this child. And so we were equally as like, just,
00:14:38
Speaker
So confused and I you know had him in my brain like kind of on a schedule. I was very um Probably to a fault like set on a schedule and wanted to have him on a schedule because that's how I live my life So I assumed that like my baby would also be on a schedule at all times even at like three days old so yeah, now looking back that was a little bit neurotic of me, but I Try that's what I was like really concerned about at the beginning was trying to get him on a schedule on hindsight. at At least at the very beginning, like who cares? You just enjoy it. but Yeah. And they do their own thing, but like we don't know that. like When you're a first-time parent, like how do you... It's one of those things, like everyone gave us advice leading up to it, solicited or unsolicited, and everyone has a different opinion. And then like you just do not really know until you are standing right there. And every kid's different too, so you're right. like
00:15:31
Speaker
Some kids might work really well with that. Some kids might just need to make their own scheduling vibe. like And then they change like week to week, day to day. And you're like, okay, what used to be the schedule is not the schedule. It's like so confusing. So I completely get that. I'm sure other people can relate to that too. Yeah, it it was kind of a mind, you know, it was just, it it was mentally challenging time. I think we exchanged a few DMS during that time too. Like, especially at the beginning. I forgot what you posted, but I feel like you posted some stuff on your stories and I was like, I feel this so deep. I got it um i also can't remember what I posted back then. It was definitely relatable. Um, so you mentioned how, when we, it was in the NICU and you had the, you know, you obviously had a Trinity
00:16:20
Speaker
What at the time, what was your maternity leave policy and how how did that go with your job? Was it generally pretty good? pretty like how how did you How did that feel for you? Yeah, so I'll be i'll be pretty candid because um it was an interesting experience and not what I expected.
00:16:41
Speaker
So the policy was like three-ish months from maternity leave and um obviously mine started early because Leah came early and um I did reach out to my supervisor and was like in HR and was like listen like she obviously came early like when she at the end of this three months I'm not going to be ready.
00:17:02
Speaker
um to go back at all because she's not, she's not going to be like, this is this is like, it's different. She was a pre-me like, I'm not going to be ready. I i had, you know, the emergency C-section. It was just like a lot. um yeah I even was like, I understand it won't be paid. Like I will take it unpaid because simultaneously, this is also crazy. I was in, I was getting my master's degree at USC online. So I had taken out a little student loans kind of in preparation and saved it for like,
00:17:32
Speaker
some cushion in case something happened, in case it's like I did need to take some unpaid time off. And that was great. So we had that cushion, but um which is it was also crazy because i was I didn't take any time off from school. So I was still in school and in class, ah which was my own doing. But I look back on it, I'm like,
00:17:53
Speaker
I am literally insane for what I did, like absolutely insane. I was in my second year, it was a two-year program, I was getting my master's of education and it was my second year. um So my professors were super understanding, everybody accommodated, but like insane. But I'm kind of grateful at the same time because I had that cushion with, ah with you know, covering like some income.
00:18:16
Speaker
Um, but yeah, my, my work, basically I had started at that firm, um, just under a year. If she came at her due date, it would have been a year since I had been at the firm, but she came a little early and I had a discussion right before going out with HR, like, you know, what's, what's, what's the policy and the percentage of like the, your income that I'm going to be getting, you know, I'm going to try to leave.
00:18:43
Speaker
they very disappointingly were like, um you know, short term disability is not actually going to kick in until August, because you started in July of the year before. um And you have to be there for a year for it to kick in. So they were like, it's going to be unpaid. And I was like,
00:19:03
Speaker
I can understand maybe the first month, but like what if you put the claim in in August when it kicks in and it you know you get the second second two months? They said, nope, it's not going to apply. So of course, being a lawyer, I myself call the Short-Term Disability Company and was like, is this true? This is what I was told. They basically said, um it's up to your company.
00:19:24
Speaker
when they when it kicks in. So I really, that was also kind of, I knew I wanted to to leave and kind of get away from like the defense, outside counsel defense, like billing life anyway. But that was my sign where I was like, okay, you really are not supporting me. If if if you could make an exception and have it kick in,
00:19:48
Speaker
you would have done it um if if that was important to you. So um yeah, it was unpaid the whole time. So I bring up the the the master's program because we had enough to basically cover that whole time. But if I wasn't in my master's program, I really don't know what we would have done. In an ideal world, we would have had a ton of money saved up ready for this to go, but that's just not the point we were at in our careers.
00:20:12
Speaker
where we could have that much ahead of time. So a lot of life lessons learned there. A lot of lessons learned about the type of company I want to work for, the type of support that I need. um But yeah, it it was good in the sense that like they pretty much gave me all the time that I needed. But it was bad in the sense that there was no paid time, which is kind of crazy to think about. It's like if you're an attorney at a law firm, you'd think that you'd be getting paid maternity leave.
00:20:42
Speaker
Whether you've been there for a year or not, but no no, it was the case apparently so I would just say for listeners be weary Be weary and protect yourself and make sure you have backup plans Yeah, and I imagine that that was a real Eye-opening moment for you to realize that it was their choice Yeah, and the end of the day, you know you hear people say all the time Oh, you know your job is your job and that's it your job is your employer and that's it and you're just a number to them or dollar signs to them. And like, that's kind of a great example of that. Like, they had the choice to support you or not support you. And they chose us not to because probably it was more expensive for them to do so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And if it's like, you can get off on a technicality, they're gonna do it, which is insane. Because, you know, it's obviously no way to foster like long term employment. Like I immediately was like,
00:21:37
Speaker
Well, now I know what I'm gonna, no way am I gonna have another baby while working here. Are you kidding me? Because I like, even if I, if it did qualify, like I, it's the damage was done. So um yeah, it was an unfortunate experience, but I am really fortunate that like I'm, I was in a position where we were still okay. And I know not everybody has that luxury, but yeah, it was, it also gave me a different perspective into,
00:22:05
Speaker
and those that aren't as fortunate, you know what
Parental Leave and Work Environment
00:22:08
Speaker
I mean? And I know, like, thats it' just as ah that's a larger issue that we could talk about forever, this whole, like, how there should just be, like, paid maternity and but and paternity, just paid parental leave for everybody in the country, period. Why why do you need to go through this? Why do you need to make sure you're working in a place that covers all of this? It just shouldn't be an issue. um Right. But it is. So it gave me a ah little, little glimpse into what most people deal with, which is really unfortunate. Yes.
00:22:35
Speaker
I totally agree. It's definitely a larger issue, a larger conversation, um, but disappointing to hear, you know, stories like that time and time again, when you would think it would be coming less and less common. It's becoming just, you know, it's staying status quo. That's, that's what companies are doing except some bigger you know tech companies. Um, one of my friends who's been on the podcast, she does consulting work for a lot of big tech companies who are trying to expand their parental leave and the different options that they'll provide in their benefits packages. And they see it as, she was explaining, they see it as actually a benefit to them and a cost saver to them in the long run, because exactly what you were saying, it fosters employee retention. Like it keeps people working for you because they're being supported in ways that they should be and can have, you know, more balanced, healthy lifestyle. And they're happy to keep working there, especially women.
00:23:30
Speaker
um if yeah if they're being supported through pregnancy, through postpartum. So yeah hopefully, yeah. And not just like staying there, but like the morale while you're there, like you want to do good work because you feel like you have a stake, you feel like the company cares. And yeah, totally. My company now, like it was it was one of the one of the main factors that I was looking for in switching jobs. like What is the the parental leave here? I mean, it's amazing. It's almost five months, 100% pay. And then being in California and you have even more protections and options to go out a month before you even do, that
00:24:09
Speaker
you're entitled to. So it's just going to be, and we we do want to have another kid, but it's going to be a completely different experience. Like with a second kid here, but you're right. Like I, I already in my head and like, because this is a priority to them and they're really supportive of like parents and people going out and taking time and they have actual like parent, like child school activity leave that you put in and ah unlimited paid time off everything. like I'm like, i could this is sustainable. like I could stay here. I feel like I have a stake in the company because because there there are benefits in place that help support me to be my best self, end of story. like it's It's so true. so I think it's definitely like, it is the right move. You obviously need to be able to have the the funds to do that as a company. but um
00:24:56
Speaker
I don't obviously, and I know you you agree with this, like people in tech shouldn't be the only ones getting this type of leave. It should be everybody who's allowed to have this leave and get paid. And it's, it's um like, I'm grateful, but it makes me super sad for other people. um I could not imagine having to go back to work after like two or three weeks after having a CSR. I literally, I still had my like bandage on Like, you know, like if we're being candid, like you're still bleeding, like you can't go to work. Are you kidding me? I think I was still wearing a diaper. Like, I wasn't going to. Yes, I was still wearing a diaper. Are you completely, completely? Yeah. It's just, it ah it blows my mind. It blows my mind. I know. I know. It's painful. I mean, I had a really hard time going back at four months, just under four months. So I can't even imagine going back at four weeks. or
00:25:50
Speaker
i Mentally, I wouldn't have even been in and in a place to do that. You're still in that brain fog, sleep deprived. You're not sleeping. Your baby probably isn't even sleeping more than a few hours. It's that. and yeah um Exactly. yeah Yeah, to expect anybody to go back that early is just archaic.
00:26:10
Speaker
um So when you did go back, you were still at your old job. Were you going back in person? Was it fully remote, hybrid? What was the situation like at that time?
00:26:22
Speaker
Yeah, it was still in person and my firm had like a, um, a work from home policy where you got a couple of days a week, um, to work from home. Um, but you were basically had to be in there three days a week. I think it was two days a week and then you had to be in there three days a week. Um, and I mean, my, my role was pretty demanding with like a lot of other clients. I had, I had to do a lot of site visits all over Florida to a lot of driving. Um,
00:26:49
Speaker
And, ah you know, I was litigator, like, like, like as you know, like, you you're in debt bones, you're trial prepping, you're in court hearings, you're like, nothing has ever ended. At this point, things were partially open during COVID. It was like 2022. So things were kind of so some, some of my hearings were especially in like, you get a little further north from like, Gade County and and Broward County, like,
00:27:13
Speaker
Some of my hearings were actually in person. Zoom wasn't even even an option. So I was having to kind of like adjust to driving again, but also pumping every two and a half hours. I'm like pumping in the parking lot of like some of the site visits. I'm pumping in the like courthouse parking parking lot. i'm like to factoring and like breaks into my like long plaintiff's depots where I'm like, sorry, I have to go pump. We're going to take like a 30 minute break. like why It was. and And like you said too mentally, just emotionally, like you don't want to leave your newborn baby. Like you are still, you're you're very much attached. How do you trust anybody? I mean, thankfully that at that point, Mike, we shifted and Mike was taking time off. We kind of staed staggered our leave. So he was with her for a while, but
00:28:00
Speaker
And then my my mom and dad did come back for a couple of weeks because they didn't actually get to like meet her when they came initially when she was born because grandparents weren't allowed into the NICU with COVID protocols. So they came back and they helped and then Mike's parents came to help. So we we had some help even though we didn't have family in Florida, but it was really hard. Like if I was working from home and I heard her even yip downstairs, I, no matter who's, if even if it's just with Mike, like I'm like, you know, like biologically that like triggers something for us that we cannot,
00:28:30
Speaker
an hour that and we have to go see if they're okay and my cold mom and I was very distracted. Like I couldn't keep up with my billable hours. Like I was, I was like, this is, I do not want to work anymore. That's how I felt. I didn't want to work anymore. It's not that I didn't value like having my own career. I think, I think I, and I do love working, but it was too early. Like if I probably needed a full year, quite frankly, to just be with her.
00:28:58
Speaker
And then I think I would have had the the space because i I also was breastfeeding for a year. So mentally too, like my hormones, and you're just still so deeply connected like for so long. I just, I was not, until I was done breastfeeding, I didn't really start feeling normal for like a few months after that. And then I quite frankly didn't feel completely like myself again until she like pretty much just turned two.
00:29:19
Speaker
So, which I know a postpartum is that it really is like two years, but no, it was really when I think that goes really hard, like really hard. And I'm worked with mostly older men who were who were parents, but um they weren't the birthing parent. So they they didn't know how it biologically really felt to be in that position and to have to like pump out all the time and I mean, it's hard. You're trying to keep your stress level down so you don't impact your milk supply, but you're stressed because you've got all these hours. It's like it was another one of the many reasons I was like, I have to, I can't go on like this. And I hats off to all the women that, that stay in that, um, industry and on that side and and do it. Um, cause that's really hard. Just was not for me. Was not for me. It was not sustainable whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. How was it for you going back?
00:30:15
Speaker
Um, I started a new job, um, when I get, cause I was finishing up. That's right. I remember. And you guys moved, right? Yeah. Yeah. So see, I recommend having a baby moving to a city where you don't know that many people starting a new job where, you know, absolutely no one and going back, you know, it was almost four months postpartum. It was, um, yeah.
00:30:45
Speaker
I don't want to, I don't, yeah, it was about, it was rough. It was rough. and in In hindsight, we should never have done that much change in one, you know, three month period of time. right And it was traumatic. And i I hate to use that word because it sounds so dramatic to say it was. ah true No, but it's it's true. It was. and And I totally agree with you with going back that.
00:31:12
Speaker
like And I realized I'm lucky I had more than 12 weeks. I had a little bit more than I think I had 15 or 16 and it still felt I my emotions were too raw at that time like I still felt like that like a like a Braid wire like any nothing totally exposed. Yeah. Yes. Yes, and I was so afraid to because it was an environment where I didn't know anyone I didn't know what the pumping situation would be like, I didn't know what I just, there was so much I didn't know that I was so afraid to keep trying to breastfeed and pump because I just, I didn't know what that would look like there. And so I started to lean before
00:31:55
Speaker
going back to work. And i so I think emotionally and mentally, that was hard too. right I don't think really I was ready to stop, but I had convinced myself that I was because I didn't, I was too afraid to deal with it in a new job with a new boss. And a new and in hindsight, like it all would have been fine, but I didn't know that then. and So that was hard to, but just you know, it's just, hard it's hard enough to get used to a new job. And then to add on like how emotional it is to leave here.
00:32:25
Speaker
little tiny baby who you've just spent three months doing nothing but care for her. And then they didn't, you know, because I was new to the job, they weren't letting me work from home yet. So I was in office, you know, five days a week. And I think that was hard too, because it just went from all day with my baby to almost what I felt like was no time with my baby. And I just remember right there I cried.
00:32:51
Speaker
almost like it was I was doing more crying than not crying. Yeah. And you there's so much guilt in there too, whether like you can control it or not, you're like riddled with it. Yeah, I felt very, very, very guilty that I've gone back. And it probably wasn't until a year in that I finally started to feel like, okay, this wasn't the worst decision, not because the job is anything but great, or the people are anything but great. It's just me, it's me and my guilt and my own emotions about it. And timing of everything. Yeah. Yes. So yeah, it probably took a good year of me being there to be like, okay, this could, this is doable. This we can do more long-term. Um, cause you know, in the short term I was, I was not okay. I just put in, put in a deal. Um, but you know, luckily I had to leave. No, I just, everyone was like very supportive, like,
00:33:51
Speaker
and just reminding me like, it's going to get better. It's going to get better. You know, nobody was pressuring me to stay, but I think my family and Chase, they were all like, you know, don't make any rash decisions but because you're, you know, this is a hard time. It will get easier. Um, and it did, it did for sure. So.
Balancing Breastfeeding and Work
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, and that's the hard part too. Because it's like, it's like when you're in that newborn phase too, like everyone says like, don't worry, like you'll come out of it. But when you're in it, you're like, this feels like it's never gonna end. Like you're so sleep deprived. Like it's what every phase you feel like it's never gonna end. And then it does and you're on to the next phase. But with with going back to work too, I asked myself, like am I ever going to feel okay at work, not worried about her like ever in that life? And like if it's your first kid, like you don't know. You don't know how it's goingnna how it's going to feel. And like but i'm i'm I really feel for you with with you feeling kind of like you just were so overwhelmed with like the the prospect of what's pumping and nursing and all this going to look like while I'm starting this new job. where you're also like
00:34:58
Speaker
you're you're You're like overworking when you start a new job because you're like trying to prove yourself and you're setting expectations and you're trying to get up, wrap your head around stuff, meeting new people. So like, I can't imagine the pressure you felt. Like I would feel this, I would have felt the same way too. And I would think that every day I'd be like, should I, should I be doing this? Like, cause I really felt like I couldn't do both. I was like, my, but I cannot bet like you're pumping. I forget what it is, but it's like,
00:35:25
Speaker
almost 40 hours a week if you're pumping full-time, literally two full-time jobs. like I was like, I can't do both. I can't keep up with my billable hours and do all this quality work and do and be like literally producing for this human and like, should I stop? And it was, it's it's I think I'm just so stubborn that I didn't. And I also was like, it was the one part of my plan with the whole pregnancy and the birth that I actually like felt like I could keep or had some sort of control over which I still didn't because you know my flow my supply would like ebb and flow but like I think that was part of it too like I just and thankfully I've i've been in therapy for like three years just like really maintenance at this point and I still love it but thankfully like I was able to keep that up throughout this whole process so I have that support system but
00:36:14
Speaker
I talked a lot to my therapist about that. I'm like, am I still nursing and pumping because I feel like that's, I told myself I would do a year and I can't go back on that. And it's the only thing that I feel like I can control or am I doing it because like, I feel like other people's, I'm thinking of other people's opinions or am I doing it because I really feel like it's the best for me and her. I had to like wrestle with that a lot and like.
00:36:39
Speaker
when you when you're doing stuff that you don't necessarily feel like you're doing because it's your choice, it's really hard. Like you you didn't really like you said, you feel like you would have kept going, but you didn't feel like you really could. And that doesn't feel good either because you you're not really stopping or continuing on your own, your true own feelings. you know And then you're torn because you're like, you know, if I if i wasn't working full time outside the house, would this even be like a discussion I'm having with myself? Like, would I have to be like making this decision? Yeah, yeah. There was a lot of, you know, that the legal world is maybe not the most up to date with things. It's a little bit stuck in the past. And so I just didn't know what I was walking into.
Shifting Priorities: Family vs. Career
00:37:28
Speaker
yeah I didn't know what you know now, which is that like my boss you know has kids and went through you know her own journey. And then my closest coworker also has two young kids and went through it too. So like I would have had support there, but I just didn't know it before I started. And so yeah there was a lot of anxiety that came along with it. that you know yeah There's a second go around. I think it would be easier to transition back in because it wouldn't
00:37:58
Speaker
There's not as the unknown that there was the first time. Yeah, and we know so much one now right when you come off. from journey but I think that's really valuable advice because people will sometimes like, like you said before, like being type A, like doing what we do, like we think, we think we can do it all and we can, we can, I think you just have to decide what, what is the all that we want and like, what, what is it? What, how do we want to feel? But like,
00:38:23
Speaker
we set really high expectations for ourselves that like we can do anything and we can do anything but sometimes when it's a new situation that we just don't know all the stuff that we can't control like how we're going to feel postpartum like how are you supposed to know that that would have you were going to feel that way there's no way you could have known you know did you really hard did you always know you wanted it to be a working mom quote unquote it's a good question because i i Honestly, I don't know if I've ever thought about it before you just asked me that right now. It's weird. be i I think I would say like I always knew the expectation, not really the expectation, but like I always knew I'm going to be working. I never like envisioned myself as a stay-at-home parent.
00:39:11
Speaker
um Not that that would be off the table. um Honestly, I would love that. but At times, I have moments where I'm like, I would love to be a stay-at-home parent. It is a job. It's a really hard job in and of itself. And you get a taste of that when you're on like maternity leave. And then Mike got a taste of it when he's on maternity leave. It is is more work. It was actually a break when I went back to work in a way, because it's more work being a stay-at-home parent. So I just want that to be like at the top of the list here, a mad respect, because it is harder than being at a standard nine-to-five job, whatever that is.
00:39:48
Speaker
um but I don't really know. I never really thought about it. I always knew i would I would be working. I always wanted a career. I think I always wanted like a purpose outside of like my family, just like some impact on the world. um But my my entire, as all of ours says, brain chemistry changed after having Leah, and like my priorities of what was important to me completely shifted. And it was like her, my family. like That was it.
00:40:15
Speaker
and if If my job and other external things were not fitting in and supporting the most important thing to me, I was going to make changes with those things to adjust to my top priority where I think before having her, I think my perception was like, you can make it all work because they're all important. But after having her, I'm like, no, that is the most important thing. Like her wellbeing and her childhood, everything, like the most important thing in my marriage. and like
00:40:46
Speaker
ah fostering that household. um Yeah. So I think i I think I surprised myself when after having her, I started and like I just like I feel sometimes now being like, I would totally be a stay-at-home parent because then I feel like I could be there raising my kid more than I am already.
00:41:05
Speaker
um right So I guess I always expected that I would be a working parent, but I didn't actually understand what that meant until I became a working parent. Does that make sense? That makes total sense. I feel the same way. you There's a total priority shift that happens after you have your baby. and guilt I totally get what you're saying. I went from wanting to be, you know, having career aspirations and those being my goals to now like my biggest goal is to just be like a present mom.
00:41:36
Speaker
you know, yeah, everything else yeah like these would be nice too. But like mine, like you said, like mine, the top of the list is being there for him. So everything else. kind Yeah, you're so right. You just, it just, it totally does. You just like start to think like, okay. And I think there will come a time, you know, when they get older and they're out of the house, there is a time where you maybe have the the space to like, reshift and focus on other things. But like,
00:42:01
Speaker
If I'm being totally honest, I'm not at a point in my life where I'm like, I'm trying to climb the ladder and get to this level and do this level. That's not my top priority. I love my job. I want to, I'm committed to it. I want to do well. And, you know, I, I love the people I work with. I love the work I do, but.
00:42:19
Speaker
Is excelling in climbing the ladder, so to speak, the top of my list right now? Absolutely not. Like you said, top of my list, being there for my daughter and my family, creating memories, making sure I have space to like actually feel like I know her and I'm not, you know, never around. Yeah. Yeah. I totally, I, I, there was somebody I fell on Instagram I can't think of right now, but I'll think of it and put it in the show notes. But, um, she talks about it as seasons, like motherhood has different seasons. And when your kids are little and need so much more of you, that's just a season where maybe your career takes more of a backseat. Um, yeah later, once they're older and need less, maybe your career, you're in a different season of motherhood and it's just different needs for different times of their life.
Childcare and Support Systems
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah, completely. Yeah, I love that. It's so true. I mean, I look at I look at my mom and both my parents are still working there in the early 60s, but they're still working. And I look at my mom and like, she's in a season of motherhood where her she's, ah she's a grandma, I have a little niece who's only 10 months older than Leah, so they're very close. But like, she's a grandma, she's obviously still a mom, but like her, she can do whatever she wants with her career. And like,
00:43:39
Speaker
Same with my dad, even with like fatherhood, they're making like career decisions at this point that is setting them up for where they want to be at in retirement, yeah the stress level they want, and the flexibility they want. like But that's kind of their like focus of them making sure they have time to hang out with their their grandkids. But yeah, you're right. If it doesn't end, it's like you're you have lots of seasons over like years and years and years. So I love that. It's really beautiful to think about it that way. It also gives you a little hope that like feeling exhausted and stretched so thin, like we do now, it doesn't last forever. yeah there are There will come a time where it's like, you can go on a little vacation with your husband and not feel like be wondering, why
00:44:22
Speaker
Are you okay? like What's going on back home? but i don't like we I've only left Leo since being from the NICU for one night. um i'm i'm I'm going away for one more night next weekend, so it'll be the second night. but like i'm like That's still hard for me. i know and and Everyone has their own timeframe where they're comfortable doing that, but like it's still hard for me. I still feel guilty about it. you know I think it's hard. I struggle with it too because Realistically if I'm gonna be traveling if Chase and I are gonna go on a trip It's gonna be on a weekend and I think of my weekends as a mid-time because during this It's also much more time for work. And so I'm very protective of weekends and weeknights, you know after we all get back from work and daycare or whatever That time is like very precious to me. And so yeah, i I totally see it It's hard to give up that time to do anything else even though
00:45:21
Speaker
You know, there are other things that come up and there are other things that are important. Of course, I totally get the feeling of guilt of like, but that's supposed to be the time where we're making memories, bonding and doing things together. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're so right. Same. Exactly. It's same here. Like if we're going to do anything, it's going to be on a weekend, but it's like, wait, the weekend is my only time with her. Like what? And with the three of us together, it's, it's a, it's a, and to to the same thing, like you do need time.
00:45:51
Speaker
away to recharge. You do need time with your your spouse. The one night that we did stay away was we didn't even go far. We just went and stayed at the Four Seasons of San Francisco for our five-year anniversary. and like It was amazing. and we're actually but It wasn't a lot of time, and she stayed she stay with my mom and dad, but it was like all we needed. sore like That gave me a little hope too, where it's like we don't necessarily have to go away for tons of nights and like travel far. We just need some time together and little date nights and stuff but like that's even hard. Like we we scheduled a date night for like the last weekend of July and like we're just gonna go in the evening like 5 30 to like 9 30 like a movie and dinner um but I'm like oh my god I feel guilty about that because it's a weekend like that what that's like a bedtime like that's one bedtime I won't have with her and I keep trying to tell myself like it is literally okay like you need that time with your partner two to like reconnect and just like step away for a minute and like
00:46:49
Speaker
you're not a horrible parent for taking a minute to go on a date. But I'm constantly, I'm constantly building myself with all of it, even those things. So, and I think so much of it is because we're working so much during the week, you know? Yes. Yeah. I think, and I think the lead up to it is worse than the actual, once you actually yeah leave and go and you're having a great time and you're like, Oh, this wasn't so bad. But yeah, i exactly. Getting closer and closer. Yeah, I totally, totally understand. I've had to travel a few times for work.
00:47:19
Speaker
And that definitely was very, very tough. And the first time I left him, I think we had a wedding. Um, and it was a very quick, quick trip, but yeah, the lead, it was, it was very hard getting up to it. And I definitely cried like many days in a row getting up to it and then getting on the plane, I cried. And then the second we were at the wedding and seeing our friends and having a great time, I was like, okay, okay. And then when we got back, I felt very, like you said, recharged, um, kind of filled, filled up, you know, part of my.
00:47:49
Speaker
social battery, I guess. Yeah, your tank. Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, we never like regret it once we're there, but we're also like, you just don't want, and they have so much fun. It's like, of course our kids are going to miss us, but they end up like having so much fun too. like Especially if they're staying with like a grandparent or whatever. like It's a fun little exciting little so event. We blow over a thing for them. It's not, yeah it is like a fun thing for them. It's not, I think, how we always perceive or think it's going to be for them. so Um, yeah, that's really, that's, it's a work in progress forever. Yeah. that A friend of mine, uh, reminded me of two, she has two kids now, but she and her husband did a trip. Um, and she made a great point, which is that kids, their, their age, like as little as we and M and R, they don't have a concept of how much time is passing. So it's not like they're sitting there and like, if you left for a week, let's say like that wouldn't,
00:48:49
Speaker
necessarily like compute to them that you're gone a full week. That makes me feel better that like you know if you were to go away for a weekend, like she wouldn't know that you're gone for a whole weekend if that makes sense. like How long that was. That that makes me feel better. I didn't know that. so I feel a lot better. I trust the friend who told me that because she's made enough.
00:49:12
Speaker
Whether it's true or not, we're going to go with it. We're going to go with it because it helps us. ah so Speaking of date nights, what is your childcare situation like when you're working or if you wanted to go on a date night? like How do you guys handle childcare for Leah? Right now, she has a full-time nanny. We're very lucky who's like become part of our family. um And that that's worked out really well because the timing of when we moved from Florida, she wasn't daycare when we were in Florida. She started at seven months and we moved when she was around 11 months. Um, but where we are in the Bay area, like it was, there were very few daycares that would take kids under two. Um, and then not to mention like, you know, how and it's like you're on a waiting list forever for, I mean, she was on a waiting list for five months before we got into, like we, we signed up really early.
00:50:06
Speaker
or not five months, I was five months pregnant with Leah when we signed up for her daycare in Florida to make sure she had a spot for when she was seven months old. So like, um, you know how it is, it's really hard. So it was a pretty quick move. I got this job and we relocated within, we sold our house in Florida very quickly and we relocated within like, like under two months. So we didn't have a lot of time to like find ah daycare but we were super lucky. We did nanny interviews and stuff and we found the most perfect person and she has become part of our family. Leo loves her. um We got very very lucky um but she is starting um daycare or preschool um in August so she's going to be shifting over and that's super close to the house which is nice but um that's going to be a transition too like getting her
00:50:57
Speaker
getting Because now she's you know she has the stranger danger. She's very securely attached to like us, my parents, her nanny, and it's going to be a shift. But date it Monday through Friday, she's with her nanny. Weekends are our family time. And then um my parents my parents help out. like they They stayed with Leah when we had our anniversary overnight. And um either my parents will watch her for a couple hours for like a date night, or we have Yoldani come. But that's our nanny. We have her come, and she watches her.
00:51:26
Speaker
um but we're really lucky like it's part of why we wanted to move back to the Bay Area anyway is we wanted to be near family like we needed we realized like it's really hard to have a kid with nobody around no no family nothing and I don't know you probably experienced this from from being in in South Florida too but I feel like most of our friends had like started to move away or like back to where they were from like Everybody from the PD's office was like pretty much gone that we were like super tight with. And um yeah my firm, most people were older. like I didn't really have like work like real work friends. I was kind of the youngest person there. So we were starting to feel like, wow, we don't even have a lot of friends here anymore.
00:52:12
Speaker
yeah um yeah it was It's hard. So part of what we came back here was to have that support. But now we're really lucky with with the kind of child care setup we we have right now.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah, it really helps to and to have like a village around. And I have said this on other episodes and I'll say it a hundred times more. I'm sure is that having family around is such a, an important thing that I didn't realize was so important until after I had a mint. I'm sure you still the same. Like you don't, you don't realize how helpful it is to have either parents, you know, either set of parents or any family really um yeah around just to have support and, you know, childcare when you need it.
00:52:52
Speaker
helpful, just, yeah, it's so helpful to have. But that's so lucky that you guys want to nanny as quickly as you did too, because that can be really hard to find, do, you know, months of waiting or interviews.
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah, can be yeah a hard thing. It's another one of many, many, many things that I did not realize before. So true. And even like, you can have a great interview with and I think everything's all lined up. But maybe like in practice, like things don't play out or whatever it is. So yeah, I've heard a lot of other people like people have to almost like go through a couple of people before they find the the the right person, which is hard on everybody, you know? Yeah. How about Emmett? You mentioned daycare. Has he been always been in daycare? No, he we had a full-time nanny. We actually kind of split it between two nannies um until he was a year or 13 months. And then he started, we got a a spot in a daycare kind of out of the blue. I wasn't expecting to get one probably for another year. like I didn't expect him to start until this coming August when he was two, but they had a spot open up earlier than they expected.
00:54:03
Speaker
So he started there at one, which at first I was, he was only there three days a week and with the nanny, one of the nannies, two days a week. And I think that was a good like ease into it. Sorry. So cute.
00:54:21
Speaker
um Now he goes four days a week to school and one day a week at home with the nanny. So it's good. It's a good balance because, you know,
00:54:31
Speaker
on the day he's home. I also, that's one of the days I work from home now. So I get to see him kind of sporadically, you know, when I take breaks or something. So that's good. Um, the transition into daycare. Yeah, it was, it was tough, not because it was tough mostly because of the, you know, as you, I just, I'm sure you've been warned the sickness aspect is not what I was going to bring up next. Like the sickness.
00:55:02
Speaker
but never ending yes But as you know, with everything else, it gets better. It doesn't last forever. Um, you know, he, he still gets sick, but it's not nearly like it was at the beginning. So it gets better. and and but i mean and boulder too I feel like she's already probably built up a good immune system. I don't think it's going to be yeah hopefully. Yeah. with that we will see. Well, well, and like, even though she was in only in daycare for, what is it, like seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, four months in Florida, literally day one, she went, she got COVID, came home home, gave it to me, was out for like a week, and then goes back a week later, whatever, what's the stomach bug they get? Just started throwing up for like two days straight everywhere.
00:55:47
Speaker
went back, got hand put in mouth. Like, I think she got everything that you can get within the four months. So I'm hoping that i like, her immunity is built really well. that Like when she goes back now that she's older, like you said, like maybe we won't, we won't bring so much home. But yeah I know we're gonna get the little cold, like she'll still even come home with like a little nose cold or whatever, because her and her nanny go out to the library, they go to different like museums, and she's still touching things and playgrounds. And It's a lot less, but you're, you're right. It's, um, I will say like the reprieve from her being sick all the time, like having a nanny was, was incredible. Cause it was every two weeks. And then Mike and I thankfully would kind of take turns getting sick too, but you, you like end up having to take so much time out of work and like it's that wears on you too. It's like really hard. So yeah i'm I'm not looking forward to that part of it. ah It's not fun, but luckily, I mean, now you're,
00:56:44
Speaker
Oh, you said a year into this job, right? So yeah, you know have more of time. I think it's hard to take off a lot of time when you first starting a job because you're like, I apologize. I'm always out. My child was sick. Totally. You hate to be that way. You got to do what you got to do for a kid. I know you're so right. It's funny because I started working remotely for the first like month. I accepted the job and they're like, you can start while you're still working in Florida and you're going to move out here or whatever. And I was like, literally day two, um,
00:57:13
Speaker
I get a call from daycare like, hey, Leah's growing up everywhere. And I like slack my boss. I'm like, I'm really sorry. I know I literally just started, but I have to go. And um she she doesn't have kids, but she's just so understanding and like totally got it. She's like, no problem. and then you know i had a mediation the next day and i'm like i'm sorry like my baby has to be on this mediation with me i don't have a choice because mike was in trial that same week so he really had to he really didn't have a choice so that's the other part too where it's like you wish you had family around because when you're both in like a really demanding career
00:57:46
Speaker
It comes down to like who has, even if you both can't do it, who can do it a little bit more? And like I could bring her to a mediation because I was also the client at that point, um but he can't bring her to his trial. so but And he can't cancel his trial. and like I can't cancel me. So yeah, you have to like juggle a lot. But you're right. When you first start, it's you're scared. You're like, are they going to think I'm like super flaky?
00:58:10
Speaker
like i'm out all the time now, but yeah, you're right. i It does feel better once you're settled in and you know, you have some flexibility. So, um, yeah, the sickness. Oh my God. Yeah. Well,
Self-Care and Personal Time
00:58:24
Speaker
it speaks to them to your current employer that they handled it well and didn't make you feel bad about it and that your boss was supportive. And yeah, that really speaks to them. Like we were saying before, like all those things contribute to longevity and Yeah. Yeah. It's that like culture. Exactly. It takes the stress out too. Cause then you're like, okay, I don't have to like take space in my brain being worried about what they're thinking of me because of this situation I can't control, you know? So yeah, that's true. Good. It's fostering a a supportive culture for sure. Yeah. Um, okay. So you have the nanny. So what does your day kind of look like for you and Mike? Does Mike, Mike doesn't work from home or he does.
00:59:05
Speaker
So he's still studying for the California Bar. um So he's kind of full-time studying, taking it at the end of the month. um But he basically he basically will go to the UC Berkeley Wall Library. It's super close to us. i'm like It's public. And ah um as an attorney, you can get in. Since he's already licensed for it, you can get in. But anyway, he can really go in. So he studies there, which is beautiful because he has like a quiet space like away from everything.
00:59:32
Speaker
um and then I work from home basically Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then have to go into the office Tuesday, Thursday. um But like on a day that I'm working from home, our nanny gets here like nine. And then I basically am like, okay, I'll see you later. I'll go upstairs. Mom's gonna go work. And then I go work. and um they do their thing and then I'm pretty much come down at five and Mike gets back at like five two he'll leave around the same time um the days that I go into the city she gets here at eight so I leave a little bit earlier and then um kind of similar just kind of done it five and then we just like unplug like you were saying like we're very protective of the evenings because like that's our only time with her during the day other than like morning obviously but
01:00:18
Speaker
Leah does not wake up very early. She gets up at seven every day. So we don't really have a long morning with her before we all leave because she's a pretty good sleeper lengthwise. She'll sleep for a long time. so um Yeah, it's kind of straightforward. And we try to do really early dinner so that we can all sit and eat dinner together and sit at the table, like, undistracted, but we'll try to eat by, like, 6.30. And then the goal is to get her to bed by 8.30, but she's lately pushing it and won't really fall asleep till 9. So it's like 9. And then, um, yeah, it's a longer bedtime routine, but no, it's, it's pretty nice. And I, I find myself just like forcing myself to like not be worried about
01:01:03
Speaker
anything at work during those hours. Because I'm like, I'm with my family. There's nothing I can do right now. um Occasionally, depending on what's going on, if things are busy on on on occasion, maybe I'll like finish something once she's asleep, like 830 or whatever. But it's very rare, which is also like what I like about being in house now there's, because there's no billable hour, like there's a lot more flexibility with like just working during business hours, like a lot more containment.
01:01:32
Speaker
And people really respect everyone's time outside of work. And most of my colleagues, including my manager, now I'd have a different manager, including and like everyone's got toddlers and kids and people get it. So everybody's kind of blacked out from like five to eight. like Nobody's doing anything. And then most people don't get on after eight anyway. So um it's pretty nice, um but the weeks are busy. We just, it's kind of go, go, go, go, go. And then we just try to be present, you know, after work.
01:02:01
Speaker
But yeah it's tough. How about you guys? We're we're similar. It's go all week. Chase works from home. I am in the office Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. I work from home Tuesday, Friday. Tuesdays we have the nanny. All the other days he goes into school. So we, I usually do drop off because I'm the one going into the office. So it's easy for me to just drop it off. Yeah.
01:02:30
Speaker
And then Chase does pick up usually because he's, Chase's schedule is a little bit more, sorry, I'm trying to keep my cat from walking across that. He's getting real, real. Cats do whatever they want. Yeah. Oh, Chase's job is a lot, a little bit more flexible than mine. He can kind of build his schedule. So like he can, sometimes if he doesn't have a call scheduled or anything at like four, he'll go and pick him up a little bit early.
01:03:00
Speaker
Um, sometimes he'll log back on, like you were saying, he'll log back on after Emmett goes to bed. If he had, if he stopped working a little bit early that day and she, there she is. And then we go, well now she's got another, her system.
01:03:13
Speaker
ah So it's helpful. It's really helpful because my job is a little bit more strict in its hours and you know requirements to be in the office certain days. Um, it's nice that she has this job is more flexible because, uh, he, he can kind of move things around if if really necessary. You know, there was one week, I think I was like just a few months into my job and I got asked to do this trial and it was my first federal trial. Like I was terrified. And like that week, of course, like our nanny, one of our nannies called out sick cause she had pink eye or something like totally legit that like, you know, wouldn't want her to come anyway. And like you were saying, like,
01:03:57
Speaker
Both of Chase and I's jobs are very demanding, but that week, like my job, I couldn't, i there was no choice. like I had to go. you The office of Chase really took one for the team and like took off. I don't remember how many days our nanny was out, but he really helped. And then, um similar, although we don't live in the same city as our family, are both of our but sets of parents are good about coming down whenever we need them.
01:04:28
Speaker
Like if we're both like daycare is hard because there are random weeks when they're closed. Um, like Christmas, they eat understandable to give everybody a break, but the, um, it's hard for us sometimes because we don't, you know, have another, we don't have like my parents in town who can just pop over for the week. So we kind of have to alternate and we ask to come um help, but they're always, one of them is always willing to come and watch Emmett for a few days. So that's great. Yeah.
01:04:58
Speaker
We're very lucky that both of them, everybody's like retired and can just jump up. That's huge. That's what I was going to ask. If they're retired, like it changes the game for sure. I think with my parents, it's a little tougher because they're still working, but they won't be forever, obviously. So, um, I think it'll be different to once they do retire, but that's huge. They can just kind of be like, sure, we're on the way. Yeah. A few weeks ago, it actually happened where Chase, we needed them, Chase's dad and stepmom to come.
01:05:27
Speaker
And I think they were in the car driving down from Jacksonville like 30 minutes after we called them. And they were here within three hours. Beautiful. Amazing. Oh, that's so huge. It's nice that they're driveable. Like it's not like ah obviously a short drive, but like that's driveable. That's really nice that they're like close enough where they can just hop in the car if they need to. Yes. Yes. That was our goal when we moved here from South Florida.
01:05:51
Speaker
um we were because all of Chase's family had moved to North Florida and so we were trying to get a little closer to Chase's family and my family's in North Carolina so at least getting a little bit further up more north yeah we got a little bit closer to everybody um because it's just you know like it's invaluable being close to family yeah yeah it really is um okay so a couple last questions but this is i think
01:06:22
Speaker
an important one because we've talked a lot about all the things we do for our kids. What do you, how do you decompress? Like what are things you do for you that refill your cup that don't have anything to do with momming and stuff. And maybe this plays in a little bit into council. flu but i want to hear what Yes, well really good point. I'm glad you asked it because I've been wanting to ask you what you do too because I'm like constantly looking for a solution. I feel like I have not figured out how best to take care of myself and put myself first at times. So I'm always asking my friends to like, how do you deal with it? Because
01:07:02
Speaker
there's only so many hours in the day and then you have the time where you like after work where you like want to be with your kid but then you also need sleep and like I i i played competitive soccer my whole life I played division one and division two soccer and I spent like almost 20 years of my life waking up super early and weight training and da da da and since I stopped playing I am not a morning person I don't love waking up super early to work out I would always rather sleep a little bit more and work out later but um I think to answer your question, it's a work in progress. I'm still trying to figure out what stuff I want to do for myself, like things that fill my cup. Um, since becoming a mom, like, like we talked about before, I didn't really feel like myself until very recently. So it's hard to also know like, what do I need now? And, and when can I do it?
01:07:52
Speaker
without it making me feel guilty or like lower the guilt level of like taking time for myself. Cause that's what I struggle with. Like I really struggle with putting myself first. Um, and I think, I mean, it's like, it's just like having that like caregiver kind of like undertone to my personality and always making sure that everyone else around me is okay. And then I get to myself last, which I hit a point kind of recently where I'm like, this isn't sustainable. Like I can't, I need to.
01:08:20
Speaker
put my oxygen mask on first, so to speak. so yeah um In short, what I've been doing for the last couple months is just like walking. I got one of those little like walking pads yeah that just fits under the couch. I just like make sure I'm walking at least 10,000 steps a day, but I will like block time on my calendar, even if it's just for 20 minutes, and I'll just get on the walking pad, like walk a mile, walk a mile and a half, whatever it is.
01:08:42
Speaker
Um, yeah watch something or like open the doors, open the windows. And it has been so like, like amazing. And like, are you okay? That was a big boom. We're like nothing to see here. Yeah. Good old floor there. This is a quick hurricane really quick. Um, okay. So walking. Yes. Yes.
01:09:12
Speaker
and Yeah, I've just really felt like, I've just felt like, and it's so simple, like, that's another thing too, I think being such a competitive athlete most of my life, like, even after I was done playing, but before Leah, like I had a really high standard for myself, of like, this is how much I need to work out, I need to do really intense stuff, I need to do this, I need to do that.
01:09:29
Speaker
And I just hit a point where I was like, I'm, I'm on the like soft girl life of like, I'm just gonna go for a walk, like a really long walk. Like I'm not really interested in like intense, like hit, like, like I just, it's just not, it doesn't bring me joy anymore. It is, it is category five over there for you. I like only barely hear it. It's like not even that, it's not even that loud.
01:09:55
Speaker
Um, I know you're like, how do I like pretend like this is not happening? this little like yeah
01:10:02
Speaker
florida of um ah rough ending but We'll know why. No, but hey, we've got some good stuff in here anyway. But, um, no, I, I think also, and this is why I'm curious to hear how, how you kind of do things and what you do for yourself. But I, I've only really found success in kind of blocking from time during the work day.
01:10:23
Speaker
Um, and, and getting like walking in that way. And then, and then we do, Mike and I do trade off, um, occasionally where like, even, you know, until like six o'clock or something, like if it's acrify, like, but I need to go for a walk. I need to do this. He needs to go box.
01:10:37
Speaker
will trade off and then like someone will take kind of watch Leah for like an hour or so where we still feel like we have that family time in the evening. um But I mean, our schedule is still inflects with him studying. So it's it's hard to also and the closer we get to the bar like he's leaning in. yeah So there's always that like shift. It's never a it's never a consistent.
01:10:58
Speaker
This is how the schedule always is, but I think we both just try to find little moments and during the day when we do have like her being watched by someone. Like we find moments where we can kind of do something for ourselves.
01:11:11
Speaker
um And then, yeah, like Councilor Kotorko, this is like the one little thing that I was just like, finally was like, I just want to do, I need to have like an artistic outlet because I have my my bachelor's degree and in in fine art and like I went to art school and I really miss having an artistic outlet. And yeah it seemed, it's a print on demand company, so I don't have to do any of the packaging, shipping, anything like that.
01:11:39
Speaker
I didn't have to order a bunch of inventory and put up a bunch of upfront costs. So that's really beneficial because I knew I could only do it if i didn't if all I needed to do was design stuff and kind of monitor.
Running Counsel Couture Co.
01:11:51
Speaker
um And it's been it's been working really well so far. I would say the downside to it is me not necessarily having a hands-on control over um like the shipping and like how things are. i I order samples to make sure things are like printed well and all of that, but because it is print-on-demand, I mean, each print can be how it is. I don't get to look at it before it goes to the customer, but um I started it really for me like not really for to be this big successful clothing line. I genuinely was like I want some cute clothes you know with kind of some like little like legal jargon and like very like sleek neutral like I wanted stuff like this so let me just make it if no one else buys it I actually don't care I can wear it and that's because other people want to wear it too fantastic but it's become a little like
01:12:43
Speaker
reprieve for me. um yeah And I don't always, I can't always, if I have a busy week at work, I can't always post, I'll schedule some posts to go up and stuff. But um it's still me, myself and I. So it's not like I even have like a little marketing team or a ton of extra time to like, work on it. And I think that will change over time. But kind of like you mentioned before, it's like, you if you just don't put high expectations on it, um like it did so much better than I thought it would do like in the launch month, I was like,
01:13:11
Speaker
I was stunned that people, how many people liked it and ordered. So I was shocked because I had zero expectations. So, um, it's been fun. Like that's been fun,
Community and Personal Fulfillment
01:13:22
Speaker
but I do. I find like sometimes that's like, you know, 9 PM after she's gone to sleep, I'm on my phone for, I'll take like 30 minutes or so to like schedule some posts, see if there's, you know, any, any other designs I want to make. um And that's it. But yeah, I'm curious to hear about both this podcast for you and like how you and Chase take time to like work out or take care of yourself. Like, tell me your ways. I'm always asking, like, how do people find time for this? Well, first I want to say I think Council Couture hosts. Okay. It's so I love this stuff. My favorite thing is the, ah well, I guess it prints in a shirt and a onesie maybe, but it says attorney work product.
01:14:06
Speaker
for kids. so it's right I have to get that for Emmett and I, or for Emmett because ah both his parents being lawyers, like he literally is a attorney. Exactly. Yes. No, I'll send you one. I'll send you one for Emmett. Is he a 3T or is he a 2T?
01:14:21
Speaker
He's in the middle. I'd say probably 3C because he's getting it. Okay. I'll send him a 3C. Okay. I'll do it. No, it's such a smart idea. It didn't surprise me at all that it's doing well because it's so witty and like funny. and I've never seen any other brands do anything like it. like um never and I've never seen that before. It was very original. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think the way you have to go into it is just like,
01:14:48
Speaker
no expectations. You're doing it for you. Exactly what you said. Like no one
Incorporating Exercise and Self-Care
01:14:52
Speaker
else buys it. Who cares? Like this was fun for me. It was a passion project. Um, and then if it does well, then it's like, Oh, great. It's like, you know, the cherry on top. It was already great before because it was giving fulfilling you and stuff. Um, and that's kind of what the process is too. It's like, I really don't have expectations for it. I love having these conversations. I felt like when I first had Emmet, I really craved like talking to other moms and I, you know, a couple of my friends who have kids around the same age, like they were my lifeline. Like the only reason I got through some of those hard times was being able to talk to them and text them and kind of just, you know, are we all going through this? Okay. All right. We're all, we're all around the same, the same page. This isn't just me. I'm not alone. Um, and so I felt like it would be helpful to kind of have those conversations in a podcast form so that if anyone out there, um, it's open.
01:15:47
Speaker
and feels kind of alone or doesn't have someone to talk to, they can feel like their story is related to and and similar to other moms out there. So it's kind of the same thing. Like I get a lot of joy out of doing this and fulfillment. If it never gets any listeners, like who cares because I lost the time that I spent doing it. Um, so that's, that's the story of the podcast, very similar to yours. Um, Chase and I are working out.
01:16:15
Speaker
Well, uh, you're well, it makes me feel better because you see people like, Oh, I've got this and I got that. And I'm like, how are you doing this? Like how? Yeah, now it's a work in progress. We both go through like phases where we're, you know, one of us is more into taking that time to do that than the other. I totally agree with you. Walking is like the number one way I get any sort of Exercise or it's so good in so many ways like just to get out of the house and have some Yeah, I'm for mental health and honestly like I take em in all the time like I just make him. Yeah on um Yeah One of the few things you can do with a toddler that benefits wearing their energy down, too So yeah, yeah, it's true. That's it's one of my favorite things to do. I couldn't
01:17:09
Speaker
I will i'll never be able to live anywhere that's not like a super walkable place because of how much joy I get from going for a walk. Um, you so we, yeah, we go on walks all the time, either early in the morning, cause Emmett unfortunately does not sleep late very often. So I am usually up with him or chases up with him and I'll be like, Hey, um we have time before we all have to get ready for work or school or whatever. So I'm throwing him in the stroller. We're going for 30 minute walk. Um, that's great.
01:17:39
Speaker
Or now, so if, when I really want to go to the gym and actually do like a real workout or chase wants to go to the gym, we kind of pow wow on Sunday about like what the week looks like for each other. Um, and I have this board, like a whiteboard that has the week and anything we have going on in the week, we kind of write on there and we'll plan out who gets which mornings to work out. So.
01:18:07
Speaker
And then the other person will stay home and we'll switch. Um, that's when we're both like really feeling like we want a week of like good workouts. It does not always happen. Sometimes we plan for it. And again, it just doesn't happen because whoever's morning it was slept through their alarm. And so it's like, all right, well, that was the last, the last morning. Yeah. Try, we try to alternate. Um, but I get what you're saying. Like it's hard. The guilt is real. Um,
01:18:33
Speaker
But I know that on the other side of it, I'm always a happier, better mom if I've taken even just 30 minutes to do that. So I try to remind myself of that on the days when I really don't want to. But yeah sometimes it it means fitting it in. you know If there is that guilt and I'm like, I just don't want to leave him today. I don't want to be the one who's not here in the morning when he wakes up. Then I sometimes work out during my lunch break at work.
01:19:04
Speaker
or like go for a walk or there's, um, there's a gym in our building that you can use. So I'll do that. Great. I am, I know I'm never going to be a night person, like a night workout person. So it's just not in the car for me to work out after I'm, it goes to bed, but I know some people do that. They'll, um, work out like eight or nine o'clock. I'm too, to I'm too dead. Like I'm already dead on the couch. I'm with you.
01:19:30
Speaker
Yeah, I literally, it's not happening. It is not happening then for me either. Mike, on the other hand is, he's such a dedicated person. he so it's his um He's just so like when he decides he's doing something, he's so committed to it. And he will sometimes, he'll he'll he' jump rope, he'll go for a jog. He's got like a reflector vest, like a headlamp. Like if he tells himself, I'm getting this done, he will get it done after Leah goes to bed at like nine. And I'm like, wow.
01:19:59
Speaker
I'm going to be in bed. I'll see you when you get back. because I'm exhausted. I'm with you. i can't I can't do it. I can't do it. He's on a different level. because like He's on a different level. I can't do it. But same same for us. We have like ah like a um a dryer, rate like a clear dry erase board that's like magnetized it's like on the fridge. Same thing. We write everything out because it helps our nanny to like know what's going on and just try to like remind each other. I'm going into the office this day. but You have to study late this day. Like you just have to like plan ahead and line it up and you're right. Like be flexible. It is what it is. Like, and if one person who's supposed to like wake up and work out, so they're alarmed, like, you know what, you were just too tired. Maybe that's what you needed more than working out. like
01:20:42
Speaker
It's hard hearing hearing this makes me feel better because there's always that like perception that like and and social media does this to you, right? Like we see parents like getting their workout in they're like, here's a day in the life like get ready with me I'm gonna do this and I'm always like Where's your toddler hanging on your leg in the bathroom digging through your like makeup drawer? like That's what my morning looks like if I'm, why are you by yourself? like what's who How is it possible? like Tell me your ways. um So it doesn't make me feel better because you, I think it's always a work in progress and it's it's like seasons. it'ss It's like what we were talking about before. yeah You do your best to like give yourself the time to be that, you know put yourself in a position to be that parent you want to be. but like
01:21:24
Speaker
having like a strict workout routine is just maybe not in the cards either. Like you have to be flexible. So we have to just almost like accept that while still trying to create space. I think yeah the trying, putting the effort in is the heart is the is the most important thing, you know? And I think too, like there's something to be said for the importance of your child seeing you put yourself first and put your health first. I try to remind myself of that too. When I'm feeling guilty is like, okay, no, but it's good for Emma to see Chase and I. the example yeah Yeah. Even again, like even if it's just going for a walk, like valuing our mental health, valuing your physical health is like, those are examples I want to set for him. So I try to remind myself of that too. Like it's not the end of the world. If, if we want to, you know, if we go to the gym or like sometimes I'll try to start a workout at home.
01:22:15
Speaker
and I'm going to wake up from his nap early. And either I give up if I'm like, all right, whatever, like it's just not happening today. But sometimes I just, you know, I grab him, I get a coloring book and some crayons and I clap him down right next to me and push the work out. And hec you know, and like, I used to feel so- It works out. Yeah. like well Like, why are you not, like, I don't know, I just have this guilt about doing that. But then um I saw someone wrote about like how important it is for our kids to see us. Yeah.
01:22:45
Speaker
hearing for ourselves too. I'm like, okay, I guess that's true. So I try not to be able to feel. Yeah, that's such a good point. And just reframing it. But you're right. Like, sometimes you do just have to do that. And like, that's okay. Like, that's the thing we have to keep bringing ourselves is it is okay. Like, they are like perfectly happy because all they want to be is like around us. So yeah That's what they're getting, you know? yeah When I do that with Leah sometimes too, like she literally will come next to me and start doing squats. Like she loves coming over if I'm doing yoga and she'll start like stretching. She'll be like, stretch and do downward dog. And I'm like, wow. Then I'm reminded like she's finding this like caring for yourself and exercises and always like the way some people care for themselves, but like she's, she's, you're right. Like I'm modeling this for her and she's thinking like this can be fun, which is like,
01:23:36
Speaker
the conversation I want her to have with it, not like a punishment for yourself. Like you have to work out like to look XYZ way. I'm glad that at least she's picking it up that way. And it's actually helping me frame it that way for myself. Like this is such a treat. How lucky am I that I can do this? Like how lucky am I that I have like that my body is supporting me in doing this. So yeah, we just have to keep telling ourselves all these things.
Connecting Through Podcasts
01:24:00
Speaker
A lot. of laying ourselves as moms until a lot ah in memory Yeah. Yeah. yeah ah Well, Jess, thank you so much for coming on. This has been such a fun conversation. And despite this terrible thunderstorm that's happening behind me, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to talk to us and share your story. It's been and really, really inspiring and wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much.
01:24:28
Speaker
Thank you for having me. No, this has been, this is the kind of thing that fills my cup too, like connecting with old friends and like you said, sharing stories where we don't feel so alone. So I'm, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Jordan. This has been awesome. And I'm so happy for you that you have this too. I can't wait to listen to all of your episodes. If you, you will have at least one listener and that is me. sorry yeah As I'm sure you're going to have many, many more because this is like such a great idea as well. Like there's.
01:24:57
Speaker
it's unique it's It's unique. I know it's like there's a lot of like parent podcasts, but like to me, this is unique, especially if you're asking like a lot of like moms that are working outside of the house, too. like this is There's a lot of stuff that we talked about that i' i'm I'm sure many people feel. so um Yeah, this is awesome. I'm excited for you.
01:25:22
Speaker
That's a wrap for today's episode. We hope you enjoyed it. If you liked what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. It really does help us out. We also love nothing more than hearing from you guys, so be sure to connect with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at bestmomeverpod. Share your thoughts, suggestions, or just come by to vent about the insane thing your child did today. Because let's be honest, we all feel better knowing we're not alone.
01:25:48
Speaker
And if you have an idea for a topic you'd love for us to discuss in future episodes, or if you even want to be a guest to tell others how you do it all, email us at bestmomeverpod at gmail dot.com. That's bestmomeverpod at gmail dot.com. Big thanks to our amazing listeners for joining us today. We appreciate each and every one of you. As always, stay tuned for more Best Mom Ever goodness delivered to you weekly. And until next time, remember, you're not just a mom, you're like the best mom ever.