Transcript
Speaker: What's up? What's up? Test, test. chuck Check, check. Can you hear me? Yeah. Oh, dude, this is pretty clean. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. He figured it out. out Good job. i just say ah and I tell you what, I am so glad to be, you know, you know, when you have technical difficulties and you're wanting to like get somewhere and you can't, I just have to admit right now that it just brings the joy when I'm actually here and you guys are there. I'm, I hope you weren't waiting too long, but, um,
Speaker: No. Not very long. We were talking about California and Ohio. Okay. And Brian has a great location. where Where are you, Brian? Look at your image there.
Speaker: Silver Lake. Oh, well, this is my house. See, I've got a um jukebox, some other stuff that's Los Angeles outside. Silver Lake ah down the road from Santa Clarita. Um, so that's where I am. ah lived in Silver Lake since 2001. It's become a very different neighborhood now.
Speaker: Um, it's like, ah it's interesting cause it's sort of, it's not, I'm 58 and it's become like a neighborhood for like moneyed millennials now, which I'm neither. Yeah. I get it. You know, time goes on, but, um, it's a little, I don't want boring, but it is kind of boring.
Speaker: mind Well, It doesn't look very boring. And for the listeners, just because they can't see it, ah Brian is wearing a black and white checkered shirt. Yes. His room is yellow. There are some what look to be like band posters and some other art with a jukebox in a room and red curtains. And it's a fantastic location.
Speaker: and And for the listeners, I want everybody to know as well that I am ah i'm recording out of my unmade ah bedroom with my ah you know with my bed behind me. So, you know, a little bit of contrast.
Speaker: and then you're up your Your honesty is endearing. It's not painful. you know um and so I think, Brian, right don I think that's ah that's a great quote. You know, Joe, I find your honesty endearing and a little painful.
Speaker: you know Yeah, i mean but I think that's pretty truthful of of you know all kinds of yeah truthfulness. It's always a little bit painful, but it is endearing when people are being truthful with you or when you you know perceive these you know things that people say or what they do. like that's I saw the real person there. Yeah. Now now tell me a little bit, Brian. by the way By the way, it's nice to meet you.
Speaker: No, likewise. We've been chasing each other for months now. Yeah, it has been. ah And for whatever it's worth, you know thanks for thanks for coming and spending a little time with us. Hopefully you'll get a sense that, um yeah, I mean, in honesty, right? that there's Yeah, painful honesty. Painful, endearing honesty is what we're here for. There's no agenda. But I think that this is, if I remember right,
Speaker: um that ah that we were um that we were meeting through. this is the first time where we have a friend of a friend of the show that recommended. that recommended so I was hanging out with with our mutual friend, Graham, and he was like, you know who would love, we would be great on your show? That's such a, and again, he said some really sweet things, Brian. He just was like, I really enjoy, i really enjoy Brian and I enjoy how he thinks.
Speaker: And I've just, ah that he's just become an endeared, and not just a coworker, but a friend. And he said, man, I really would love to have you to meet him. And so this is kind of the way in which that we that we get to meet. so So here's- I have to say, like, we, and we, my family, love Graham and his family. You want to talk about just like- Wow, what a terrific human being. That's a guy that he absolutely walks the walk. You know what i mean? like Yeah.
Speaker: That's all. I mean, he's sweet. He's handsome. He's all this. He's talented. yeah But really, he walks the walk. That's the thing that really...
Speaker: blows me away about Graham. He's the real deal in a world of not. Yeah. it So I feel, I feel left out. What what does Graham do?
Speaker: he's you guys both know Graham. He's a filmmaker. yes Okay. Yeah. Got it. So it is, it is interesting, right? That there is something, there's something very captivating about when you meet someone and you go,
Speaker: You know what? I feel as though that i'm that I know you, not not a residual self-image of yourself, right? Yeah, or something that you're a brand or something you're trying to you know push. Well, I have to say, too, it's the way that um Graham and I met. It was on this absolutely just is one of those productions. it was a commercial that It did take time off my life. Probably, you know, people say, oh, I took a month. ah It probably took literally like three minutes off my life. I mean, in the in the aggregate, in the end, i will die three minutes before i'm supposed to because of this commercial. And everybody was awful.
Speaker: The clients were awful. The ad agency, the production company were awful. They didn't care. The people that I hired were great because I like good people. sure So I was supposed to have this behind the scenes crew. The people that I was supposed to do it, couldn't do it. They recommended Graham and his, uh,
Speaker: his producing partner, Ryan. yeah so these two like strangers show up on set. Those guys, they instantly got, shall we say like the toxicity of the situation. And they were just like, we are here for you, Brian. They made, you know, they were just like,
Speaker: couldn't believe it. They, you know what I mean? It was just like the, the clouds parted in this, like, you know, ray of powerful loving sunshine came down and I was just like, I love you, you know? And the whole time they're just like, yep, no, no problem. Not a problem. Hey, we did this. Cause this looked like it was going to be a problem. They would take care of stuff that they weren't even supposed to. And like,
Speaker: Anyway, so they came into like under the worst of circumstances when it would been very easy to be like, you know what? You hired us for this terrible job. i don't like you. And they were awesome. so That is so. ah that's ah That's a great testimony, right? That, again, certainly it's the certainly it's the work, right, in terms of that. and You want to be able to do your vocation and your craft well.
Speaker: But it's how you go about it and who you do it with that really does – um influence who you are as a person and really make ah make the work ultimately meaningful.
Speaker: Absolutely. I mean, the the job, you know, making filmed stuff is so hard as it is. There's so many moving parts and there's so many big personalities, shall we say, that to work with people who aren't that is terrible. There's no point to it then. Cause it's like, oh wow, we're doing a commercial for, i don't know, Doritos. sure Hey, I like Doritos, but you know what? To like, again, lose three minutes of my life in the service of Doritos for a lot less money than I should be being paid to my opinion.
Speaker: It's not worth it. So and since then I've worked with Graham and Ryan on so many things and it's, here's, Here's my ultimate, I love this. It's like my dream job. Sometimes they just hire me when they have the money to be like the dad on set. It's like, we don't really need to have a job for you you. just need to be there.
Speaker: And you're going to be a producer and just sort of be stable and calm. that's You know what mean? Yeah. People then look over like, oh yeah, Brian, Brian's drinking a cup of coffee. He's laughing. It's all, everything's good. You know what i mean?
Speaker: And I mean, that's the way that Graham has explained the job to me. It's like, that's crazy you don't really have to do it. just have to be there. Okay. Presence. Yeah. A real presence. Right. And, and I think that that elevates the partnership and able to on a set to be able to bring that. That's, I think that's from what I can capture, right.
Speaker: there aren't a lot of There aren't a lot of places where you meet someone and they go, hey, could you just could you just be with me? Could you just jump in? Because having you here with me yeah obviously helps make me better.
Speaker: And it also but also brings it just elevates everybody around me. That's interesting. you know it's like that's um i think that's that's how friendship Brian, that's how genuine friendship works and what's interesting brian There are these moments where where you're able to partner with others and to be able to relay into... Let me back up.
Speaker: yeah This is a thought that I've been thinking about recently. and Tell me what you think. that sometimes people Sometimes people bifurcate these things. like that somehow that When I go to work, that there is a different ethic. There's a different framework. There's a different category of what it means to be human.
Speaker: in in this particular vocation and craft. And then when I'm having a dinner party with my dear friends, that that's a different category of what it means to be human. yeah And I think that, that there's a, there's a real blessedness and I think an authenticity and, and i think to a vocational excellence,
Speaker: Wait a minute, the way in which that I set up ah a rig or a set or run particular film crew, but that categorically isn't different ethically than how I think about how I run a family vacation or how I, how I connect with my neighbors.
Speaker: um Does that, does that resonate with you? and And if so, why, why do you feel like that people that you've been around or maybe with others, why they feel like that it needs to be different?
Speaker: Well, that's a really great question. I think it, particularly the case of Graham, I'll say as long as we're going to continue singing Graham's praise. We'll put him as a guest star. You know what? I'm actually feeling that Rush is over there just listening to you and laugh, Joe. Yeah, I need to meet this Graham Yeah, thank you.
Speaker: I'll wrap this up so we can get rushed into this conversation too. Absolutely. um I think that actually there's a kind of wisdom that comes from that. It's interesting because i think there's a lot of smart people in the world sort of like experience experience to the contrary. I do think there's a lot of smart people.
Speaker: I don't think there is quite as many wise people. I think you can be smart and not wise. And I think wisdom is like the real gift. I mean, being smart is is, trust me, it's amazing. But I'm saying wisdom is the real gift. And I think that realization that you are just, the the lack of bifurcation that you're talking about does exhibit a ah or display a kind of wisdom, I think, in not seeing...
Speaker: you know, life being so compartmentalized or, um, cause I think Graham in myself as well, I hope is like right now i'm I'm just living my life, whether I'm raising, whether I'm with my kids, whether I'm on a film set, whether I'm, whatever it is I'm doing, walking down the street, I'm living my life. Um, and I don't for better or for worse, I don't see a difference between, i don't go to work. Um, You know what I mean? I don't think Graham goes to quote work. You know what I mean? He's just living life. And I think that creates a kind of seamlessness that you're talking about between again, the dinner party that you mentioned in a film set, um, in as to why, and I think that's a gift. You know what i mean? I think it's a, it's a real gift because it's hard to look at your life that way. Cause I think in American society, at least or in the West, we look at so much like, well, that's my job. You know what i mean? The whole sort of like, Oh, well, you know,
Speaker: they got You know, it's Friday. woo You know, it it it implies a a break between what you do from Monday to Friday to Saturday and Sunday. And people, quote, live for the weekend and who I got the Sunday scaries, um which implies, again, a transition is happening. Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that's just the way our society is set up um either intentionally or it's been imposed upon us just based on, you know, whatever the industrial revolution and, you know, the invention of ah the clock or time as we know it in a modern sense of having to be someplace at a certain time to do something that we don't want to do because we need to, you know, buy food and beer and have that dinner party, so to speak. So,
Speaker: i I do think I'm, again, I'm, I am lucky enough and I think Graham is too. And I don't know. I mean, you guys probably too. It's two o'clock, two 15 in Columbus. Well, not you, Joe, but you know i mean? It's we're in the middle of the day and we're like three middle age guys talking about life. So yeah we figured some stuff out, I think. Yes.
Speaker: which is good. And that's like the true riches, I think. I do too. You're right. That is, true that is the true riches of being able to not just to know things, but to know how things live and how it works into everyday life. And yeah. And to, uh, and to, and and to be able to enjoy them.
Speaker: And, uh, Brian, what is your day in day out life and work made of? What's it, what's a normal life day for you? Well, basically I do two things. I write. i had a book of ah short stories that came out in November of 22 by Syracuse University Press called Surrender.
Speaker: i won their ah Veterans Writing Award that they had. Well done. Thank you. that's um ah National Book Award winner, which is like the ah you know Oscars for books. This guy, Phil Kly, chose the manuscript.
Speaker: So that came out. I've been doing a lot of... i've I've done surfing that wave. It's a year and a half now. been doing you know readings, ah bookstore Oh, cool. Very cool.
Speaker: It's, it's been great. Um, I started in this world, and in LA as an actor. So there's a performance, like I obviously enjoy performance and, uh, spent, you know again, the Doritos commercial thing, you know, spent six years being an actor. So reading in a bookstore or whatever scratches the performance itch because I, I see it as a completely different thing. You know what i mean? Um,
Speaker: When we read something, we take our own experiences and engage those, our personal experiences with those of the reader, um which is incredibly powerful. But you know to hear somebody read their own stuff, you're watching them engage their experiences with what they've written. And it does become a, it's a different thing. alt It's a third kind of thing.
Speaker: performance or aspect of the power of the written word. Um, and also I'm a independent film producer. i just had a film called Rizu, which is a Farsi language film, uh, that we shot in LA, uh, for Tehran about an eight year old girl deciding whether to wear the hijab or not for a class picture that got picked up by the New Yorker for streaming.
Speaker: ah that premiered at the London Film Festival in October. So those are the two jobs that I do. I write. um Right now i'm editing a novel that I just wrote. And I also produce for my producing partner, Azadeh Navai, who lives in Santa Clarita. She's a CalArts person. Her name ah god i've got so it's We joke, her husband's an ex-Mormon, she's an ex-Muslim, and so we say, I've got three people in my life. in my life I've got Mormons, Persians, and Calarsians in my life for whatever reason.
Speaker: i'm a guy from you know I'm an ethnic Catholic from Pittsburgh. And yet my life is filled, you know, I'm blessed. They're great. It's a great people, but I just happen to have all three in my life in, you know, in abundance. So,
Speaker: So I was in the Marine Corps for six years. i went to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland before that. And when I was in the Marine Corps, I was in the Persian Gulf War in an infantry battalion. And from that, I'm like 70% disabled. I mean, you can't see it. I didn't experience any, like I wasn't shot.
Speaker: or I didn't get shrapnel, but because of the environment, the um oil fire clouds, there were so many toxins. And we were there for six months. And I basically just lived in a black oil cloud for six months. And it affects everybody very differently. And with me, it i have sleep apnea, which is a um it's a neurological disease. No, it's a, uh, immuno, it affects your immune system. Also, there's some pretty severe colitis, which is the same thing. And it all comes from those oil fire clouds. And my hearing basically is a little, eh. Um, so, you know, being the smart guy, maybe maybe not necessarily wise guy that I am, um, I was able to, yeah you know, I get a
Speaker: passive income every month from that. and i mean yeah I'm a disciplined person. That's one of the things that the Navy and Marine Corps taught me. um I'm very comfortable being uncomfortable, as I like to say. um So that's so it allows me to spend every day um writing and producing Farsi language films, basically.
Speaker: um So it's again, it's I consider myself to be very rich. You know what mean? I've got friends who went to the Naval Academy with, they're like captains of Wall Street. They have more money than you could imagine. um i think i mean i think I made the right choice though.
Speaker: So was that's that's what I do every day. What's that? When you describe being rich, and you And you contrasted with the, you know, just the the guys who are on Wall Street that have a lot of money.
Speaker: what are some of the things What are some of the things that really define richness and value to you? I think it's kind of like what we've been talking about. I mean, you know, we go back to Graham. I mean, the fact that a guy like Graham, again, he's a great archetype for everything that I think we're talking about. I mean...
Speaker: it's It's interesting because, I mean, like not being a native Los Angeleno, but having lived here for 27 years now and raised two kids, you know I've got a 21-year-old daughter and I've got a 16-year-old son, and they're way better human beings than I am or ever could be, you know, and I grew up in this part of um Pittsburgh where, you know, they're like, oh, it's a great place to raise kids and everything like that. It's like, yeah, sure. You know, I mean, it it was good. And but and people sometimes ask me, like, oh how can you raise kids in L.A.? That's crazy.
Speaker: yeah I can just point to my kids and just be like, there's there's no comparison. You know what I mean? um So I guess my point is is that like you know l a the worst thing about LA is supposedly the people. um you know it's that's It's part of the stereotype. Oh, everybody is here to be you know a movie star, now like reality show, or they're sort of like...
Speaker: shysters or, you know, hustlers. And it's true. There's lots of people like that in this town. It's, but it's like four and a half million people in l LA County's got, you know, the population, just the County is like the population of Australia.
Speaker: I went to the show the other night, this ah guy, Nick Shoulders. He's from Arkansas. He's so terrific. Anyway, he was on stage and he said, basically, it kind of blew his mind a little bit that he's in a county with like, that's five times. i mean, he's, yeah, he's in a county that's five times the size of his state.
Speaker: um But all of that is, I think the best part about Los Angeles in my life, part of these riches is is people. I know so many people.
Speaker: genuinely good people. um I think it is maybe a talent that I have. I can like, again, like Graham, I happen to have this kind of luck or whatever you want to call it, that even in a really bad job, two great guys like Graham and his producing partner, Ryan, just drop out of the sky into my lap.
Speaker: I have, I do have that ability and I have the ability, I think too, to, you know, not only draw people like that to me, but to keep them in my life. um I will say people,
Speaker: yeah Again, like I'm 58. It just it doesn't show any signs of changing. And now that I meet you know my kids' friends and that sort of thing, they're great. in So, I mean, it's just all over the place. I know people all over the world you know that we get treated like locals in. So, again, riches. And, again, too, I think the time to do whatever it is that is our passion yeah to pursue that You know, that those two things, then like good health.
Speaker: um That's what, you know, that is the definition of that. that I think maybe, of certainly those Wall Street guys can have that, but it's tougher sometimes. They have demands. With money comes the like, okay, I know you made a million dollars, but now you owe me. I bought something with that.
Speaker: No, you can't go on that vacation or I'm sorry that your kid is having a birthday party or a graduation. You're not going to go. Because you, this beast needs to be fed. um And I, you know, I'm a, you know, I'm a capitalist too. Like anybody, I like stuff. i'm sure jeffbox I like want to go to Rome tomorrow. you know what I mean? yeah But yeah,
Speaker: and So bri Brian, how did how did you go from ah how did you go from Pittsburgh and ah the military to LA to such a creative space with so much creative outlet? I mean, you are, this is exactly Joe, I was going to say, this is exactly the reason that Joe and I love to do this podcast is because we come across people like, I didn't even know, I was calling you Bo in emails when I was first, you you know, i didn't even know your name. yeah And, uh, and now just to hear just, it's fascinating to hear all of the ways that you are expressing creativity. And I'm just curious how you, how you even got to this place and what has formed that in you.
Speaker: Yeah, that's great. That's a great question too. I mean, obviously somewhere along the line, I got some bad career advice. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah's good so you sco you're under You're at the academy and you're going, i don't know if this is for me. yeah Anyway, no, I mean, it i i perpetually, you know, there's a sorry, I'm still there. I'm still there. I'm just imagining you 16 year old. taking one of those like tests, you know, and somebody going, nah, you know, i think you should do this instead, you know? No, exactly. Because again, I was, I was taking those tests.
Speaker: Um, you know, I was telling everybody, um you know, this is what I, what what do you, you know, if somebody had asked me the question, what do you see yourself doing at age 58? I would have said exactly what I'm doing now. You know what I mean? I wouldn't have known the specifics, but, um,
Speaker: would have been I would have said an actor, but really what is acting? It's storytelling. You know what I mean? We're all engaged in storytelling. It just takes different forms, whether you have a cello or a you know a a computer or whatever it is, it's all storytelling. um So I would have said some version of storyteller.
Speaker: Um, so of course that test comes in my father, who's this, was this larger than life guy, this Marine pilot in Vietnam who flew 307 missions, um, was shot down on his last one. you know, not only was that, wasn't good enough. His canopy wouldn't open and he had to take his K bar knife, the famous Marine Corps knife and shove it between the, you know, the, the,
Speaker: the like the seam of the canopy and the fuselage and pry it off. And so then the canopy blew, he broke his back twice. He was you know dropped into Danang Harbor, got picked up by these two ah U S Navy sailors um who I actually located. They live, one lives outside of Vegas. The other one lives in Ventura County.
Speaker: um Exactly who the guys you would want to pick up your dad in Danang Harbor. One guy's this old surfer. um So anyway, My father's this you know this very charismatic guy, shall we say.
Speaker: you he took up a lot of psychic space. And so he you know was the guy that was metaphorically looking at that, hey, what should you do with your life test? And it's all off on this one side saying, you should be a writer.
Speaker: you know And he's like, you should go to the Naval Academy. ah You know, this hardcore meat grinder engineering school, you know, um completely unforgiving place.
Speaker: um They don't care if you're a round peg, you know, or whatever, square peg, they're going to take a hammer and they are going to force you into that round hole, or you're going to break in half, and they're going to toss you away. Particularly in the 80s, I graduated in 1988, which is funny because, you know, at the time it seemed like, okay, we're well in the future now, and everything's really enlightened stuff, but, you know, I look back at it now, and, you know, there was...
Speaker: physical abuse and you know, it was this way. It was not a positive place. sure Um, and, but I'm a very stubborn person. And once I start something, I'm not going to not finish it. And you know, my, again, here's the bad career advice thing. So I set foot at the Naval Academy that day and well, I was in and again, my father was a Marine. So I was going to become a Marine too. And then it was in an infantry battalion. um So, you know, and so the whole, but I'm, the whole time I'm looking at everything through the eyes of a storyteller. I didn't realize it at the time. And I have to say that it was incredibly impactful on me. The, the book of short stories surrender is sort of based on all this stuff, Persian golf war stories, um, stories of, you know, playing high school football in Western Pennsylvania. i mean, in a lot of ways, like I'm,
Speaker: I am still or embody this sort of like archetypical kind of like American male. You know, I was like captain of the football team. I was all, you know, all conference. I was like a Tom Cruise movie from the eighties. You ever see all the right moves? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, again, that was set in Western Pennsylvania. Like when I was in high school, Hollywood kind of goes to these phases. Like they had flash dance then, Oh, we got to get out of this dying steel town. Um, I was living that.
Speaker: And you know, our team was great. They weren't just like, good. We were like number six in the nation type thing. And so in that part of the world, I mean, I'm sure it's like that too. I mean, Ohio is kind of like, it's, I'm going to say, I'm biased. It's less than Western Pennsylvania, but yeah.
Speaker: um You know, so it's like, again, living these archetypes. The Naval Academy is another kind of an archetype. The Marine Corps, certainly, you know what i mean, is the brand name for a certain kind of masculinity, whether you love it or hate it. Everybody has a very strong opinion on it. You know what i mean? It's actually one of the things I like about it. I'm not like a person who likes to explain himself. um And so if you say you were an officer in the Marine Corps, people go, ooh.
Speaker: they have strong opinions on you. You're awful. you're Wow. um But the whole time, again, look, as I said, I'm looking it from the perspective of a storyteller.
Speaker: I'm interested in people. I didn't like the name. I didn't like You know, my high school, I was supposed to be captain of the football team. I didn't like the Naval Academy. I didn't like the Marine Corps. I love the people that i in my class at yeah high school. I love my classmates at the Naval Academy. I love midshipmen. And I love my Marines. And those, so I love people. I love their stories. That was the best thing about the Marine Corps was getting this sort of like...
Speaker: random group of human beings that they're like, Hey, you're in charge. You're, you're responsible for these guys. Like being that daddy on the set for Graham and Ryan. yeah That was the first taste of that. Even though I'm only like 22 at the time. And these guys are like 19. Yeah.
Speaker: There's a huge gulf that separated us. um I mean, in terms of certainly education, yeah the way that we were brought up, you know, you know um I'm from a ah at the time, well, at the time was a middle class, upper middle class suburb of Pittsburgh. Now it's upper class, like just rich suburb, but still I'm a privileged white guy from this suburb, the suburbs of Pittsburgh. And all of a sudden you're in this environment with people from very different backgrounds. um And that was the hugest gift to me. It changed the way that I see the world. I mean, people throw this term transformative around a lot now. was absolutely a transformative experience for me.
Speaker: And I'm still in contact with a lot of those guys, most of those guys from the Marine Corps, particular to this day, like talking to them yesterday. Really? And if you think about it, this culture that we're talking about of, you know, this bifurcation of work and life and that sort of thing.
Speaker: This also is one of those situations where were we, all of these people are not, a quote, not supposed to be together. You know what I mean? or like or yeah Because society keeps us separated. Yeah. yeah So many things.
Speaker: And yet I think the wonderful thing, the transformative thing, again, about the US military and the Marine Corps in particular is this this, and I know it's not intended to be this way, but it brings you together where these superficial differences, whether it's millennium content, whether it's where you go to church, whether you go to church, who you love, any of this stuff all goes away and yeah you get to, you know, really experience and love these people as people. Um,
Speaker: And again, like I said, changed the way I see the world. And that's actually, I dedicated the beginning of the book was like to like these five guys. And I was like, you know, because you changed the way that I see the world.
Speaker: So for me, i was always, I was like chomping at the bit to get out of that situation. The first 10 years of my adult life, 18 to 28 was in this very restrictive, hierarchical, structured environment,
Speaker: where nobody really cared what you thought above your level because you're just some idiot second lieutenant or whatever. And i couldn't ah I couldn't get out of there quick enough.
Speaker: My then-girlfriend, now-wife, Laura, um lived in Seattle at the time. So we're talking early 90s in Seattle. And what an amazing...
Speaker: golden kind of era of creativity. And lived in this neighborhood called Capitol Hill, which was like the center of all of that. And as soon as I showed up there, it took about four seconds to transition from, you know, the Marine Corps to early nineties, Seattle creativity.
Speaker: And my mind just exploded in the best possible way. And, Seattle got really small. Then after, you know, spend four years there. Oh, you act in these like independent films and stuff. It's all great. But then it's like, Ooh, I'm old. I'm like 32.
Speaker: You know, everybody else started a long time ago. so I moved to LA. And again, did a million Doritos commercial auditions. My daughter was born. I started bringing her on auditions and I started going to like these cattle calls and there'd be like hundreds of people there. And I'm like 37. I'm just like, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker: i yeah I just don't. Yeah. I don't love it enough to break through the Doritos commercials to get to Scorsese. You know what i mean? Yep. I want to ask you more about your family, but before that, I wonder what were some of the main influences, for instance, what would listeners recognize in that Seattle moment that were the main influences on you? Because that's really seems to be a creative, trend big transition ah for you.
Speaker: I mean, like, of course, like the music was, I mean, it was like, God, I mean, again, this is my personal taste, but I mean, but like that kind of Seattle music in the early nineties was so mind blowing, even though I'm not there. The timeline.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes. And like I said, we were right in the center of it too. Yep. We're at 16th and Pine. And one of the cool things that I always loved about it was regardless of if I needed to get out of the apartment or whatever. So we're at the top of Capitol Hill. I could just walk down Pine Street totally by myself at like 11 o'clock at night or something. And I would always run into somebody or something interesting. You know what I mean? Like I could walk down there and see you guys walking up the street and like oh, hey, you know what I mean? And then we would go to Linda's Tavern because you know somebody's bartending there and the beers are free. And then there's a show and we know the the band or the guy at the door. So we didn't, it's like, we kind of lived in this like little charmed existence that we didn't have to pay for anything. wow
Speaker: And, you know, it's this kind of, was small um and it was very cozy. And again, seemingly everybody was in a band and all pretty good. Even it's interesting. My son is 16 and he's musician and he's kind of fascinated now by that time period. And he will like, we'll sort of, I'll remember bands or whatever in from that time who've just been sort of lost. And he's like, Oh my God, these guys are amazing. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah You know what I mean? Like they were just, those are the guys that live down the street or whatever. And they broke up for whatever, you know, and they just got lost. Um, so what for yeah go go ahead.
Speaker: Well, I was just going to say it's, I mean, that, that kind of creative energy. Cause I was talking to somebody the other day about just, you don't, you don't realize that an actual musical genre was created.
Speaker: Absolutely. Oh, yeah. When you think of it, if you just kind of wrap your mind around that that, that Seattle sound was actually a new genre of music that was being created, I would imagine being at the epicenter with creatives that are around and exploring and finding and and discovering as well as performing and reverberating that back again, both in the sidewalks and in the hallways and the clubs.
Speaker: That you being in that environment with a natural curiosity of, yeah ah of people and of things. And because as I'm listening to you, that just is this thread, this, this ability to.
Speaker: be in an environment and not allowing the environment to constrain or to construct who you are as a person, yeah but rather that you are intrigued and and curious about the things that are around you and to be able to know what that is and what makes it special or what makes it toxic.
Speaker: And then out of that, that you're able to then express and to create and to ah to enjoy to celebrate, those things in your own way that then is a gift to other people who get to see that.
Speaker: am i Am I in the ballpark at all? You're told you're were right behind home plate there. like i'm So so with that with that, if I can, a little bit of a hard pivot here.
Speaker: But you talk about you talk about story and knowing people's story and hearing them. i just Brian, if it's okay, I just would love to hear how you describe and see your children now, both your daughter who's 21 and your son who's 16.
Speaker: Could we listen in on how you're seeing their story develop what are the things that you see that you celebrate what are the things uh that that are present and then also too as you are reflecting what are the things that you hope for for them so let's say let's say even if you know as days go by and they're like oh they discover things maybe they discover you know our four listeners somehow post something online then Whatever your children's finds this last episode and they were to hear, um, hear how you see them and what you hope for them.
Speaker: What is their story? Wow. Well, one of my daughter is like six feet away and she's preparing to go teach a printmaking class, uh, at a gallery up the street real quick. No, Lonnie, should just take the car. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. i'll I'll Uber over to get the car. So anyway, um your class starts at noon. i was going to drive her over there, but this is too good. and then we've got to pick up my son at his music camp at Cal Arts. He's been there for a month.
Speaker: I mean, i is i like to tell my kids, um i don't know. I've always loved Los Angeles as a city. I mean, even when I was like 10 years old in Pittsburgh, in my privileged suburb, in you know, Pittsburghers think that...
Speaker: Pittsburgh is the greatest city in the world. Pittsburgh is a terrific city. I would say calling it the greatest city in the world is a big stretch. Lots of things I love about it. ah hu um But it's endearing how much Pittsburghers love their city. And I'm very definitely a Pittsburgher. In so many ways.
Speaker: um But it was always sort of in the back of my mind to get to Los Angeles. For some reason, even not on a conscious level, the city always resonated with me. And that wasn't necessarily because of, quote, Hollywood or whatever. I mean, that's I've always been a film person. That's always resonated with me. But Los Angeles as a city, for some reason, has always got in my brain a little bit.
Speaker: And I always saw it as a place of freedom and opportunity, creative opportunity. um Interesting thing. So I've got this, I've even got a tattooed on my arm. I know you can't see it really well. It says l a and I know it's stylized. Oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: um But there's this guy, Chaz Boruquez, who is, they call him like the godfather of cholo graffiti writing. He's in his 70s now.
Speaker: And I remember when I used to come here in the eighty s I had a girlfriend that lived in Pasadena. And we would go from LAX and we would go up the 110 freeway, which is the Arroyo freeway. And either side of the the Arroyo has got concrete on it. And in the 80s, when we'd be driving up to Pasadena on her pink 64 Thunderbird, which to me was always so, you know, emblematic of this kind of like I would go from the Naval Academy. OK, this very locked down world.
Speaker: She would pick she's basically this punk rock painter would pick me up in this six pink 64 Thunderbird. the The car would smell like leaded gasoline and tacos. And I would climb in there and just be like, oh my God, this is so wonderful. And we would drive up the 110 freeway and I would see graffiti writing on the Arroyo and it would simultaneously...
Speaker: terrify me and thrill me because it was sort of like it would, to me, it was like heavy. You know what i mean? There was like there was this, yeah it was beautiful, but there was an implied, if you make, you know, if you make a misstep here, it could be very, it's not going to go well for you. And I liked that combination of, again, the excitement and the danger.
Speaker: So probably, was it three, four, five years ago? I don't know. I, I saw that at this tattoo place on La Brea, it's called love letters. And all they do is just is lettering.
Speaker: It's just like this California style of like, it's, I mean, it' started in the prisons, but it's become like this international thing now, but that's all they do. There is calligraphy. And they had a, any tattoo, you get an LA tattoo by Chaz Boruquez for like a hundred bucks. And I was like,
Speaker: Oh, absolutely. I'm going to do that. So I took my son with me at the time. He's 11. And I didn't tell him that I was going to get this tattoo. i was like, yeah, i'm I'm thinking about it. We're just going to down there and take a look. And so we got down there and all of a sudden they're like, okay, you ready? Yeah.
Speaker: Yep. And I go in there and sit down and my son's eyes are like, you know, you just can't believe that. Whoa, you wait, you said, and then this guy who's, who's tattooing me he's covered in tattoos. You talk, he was very sweet, but he's intimidating looking. And so he puts this thing on me and he looks up at my son. He goes, Hey, he goes, you want to tattoo your old man? And my son, of boy he's 11. He's like,
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And so this wasn't sort of like, okay, i'm go to hold your hand. And he puts the gloves on him and he's like, look, wow yeah you got to stretch the skin because you got to get that needle in there. He goes, I know you're going to think you're going to be hurting your dad. He goes, and you are a little bit, but he can take it. You got to get the needle in there. Wow.
Speaker: wow Part of me, I'm thinking like, in my mind, I don't want him, he's 11, I don't want him to go, yeah you know, and yeah but then i was thinking, well, that's a great story too, even so.
Speaker: yeah And I couldn't sort of like call his... you know, his burgeoning sort of development or manhood or whatever you want to call it into question. I had to trust him. He did a great job. He did a whole bunch of it. Really?
Speaker: So anyway, Chaz Bojquez was there and I explained this thing about driving up the Arroyo and being thrilled and scared at the same time. And he goes, and to answer your question, he's like, Los Angeles, he goes, we have a lot of freedom here.
Speaker: And I thought, and it's such a simple statement, but I was like, that's actually very true. And I don't even think New York has the kind of freedom that LA has. I go to New York often. I love New York.
Speaker: I still feel, i can still feel that sort of Northeastern or that East Coast constraint a little bit there. Here, again, you know, nobody really, in the best possible way, nobody questions that.
Speaker: and there's Okay, that's just you. You know what i mean? Like teachers, my son's teachers are tattooed. They're good people. Tattoos have nothing to do with whether they can teach math or whatever. And nobody freaks out about that in LA. So the point of all that, there's a big sort of like context.
Speaker: I, I tell my kids, that the fact that they were born in Los Angeles was not an accident, that it was um as much of a plan as I've ever had that I needed to get them to what I perceived to be the next level, the, to start from as what I would hope that they would become creative people. And they both are. They,
Speaker: So, you know, whatever it was that i had to, as I perceived, I had to fight to get through my very sort of lockdown. You become an investment banker, an energy company, VP, a corporate lawyer and become rich in my um suburb of Pittsburgh or the you know the Naval Academy. You run Wall Street or you become a senator or president.
Speaker: Then I could start out in Seattle. Ooh, I'm going to be an actor. You know what I mean? yeah um And it took so long that I just wanted to give these guys like the next foot up to be able to consider these things to be just possible. Because again, back to my father, when he looked at that mythical personality test about what should you do when you're 58 years old? And he's like, you should go to an engineering school and become a Marine.
Speaker: um I didn't want my kids to like have those things be ignored. So as I said, they are far they have exceeded my expectations is the wrong word. My wildest dreams they have exceeded. That's really cool.
Speaker: In the kind of people that they are in their compassion, their passion, their humanity, um their curiosity, their intelligence, their discipline, diligence, resilience,
Speaker: um all of that stuff. ah My daughter is a design major at the University of Pennsylvania, not Penn State, nothing wrong with Penn State, but she goes to the Ivy Leagues. Here's a kid, went to LAUSD. Again, that other thing, oh, that's, oh, public schools in LA. She goes to an Ivy League school. So it's so again, LA as a city. Oh, here's a great thing that I heard a friend of ours said this, and it's so true about LA.
Speaker: He said, you get the LA that you deserve. And I was like, again, my mind was blown because again, back to this thing we were talking about, the stereotype of people in LA. If you come to this town and you were looking for self-destruction or so to speak, whether that's with booze or drugs or bad choices, this city is like, bring it on. eat, we eat,
Speaker: busloads of people like you daily plane loads just we need to be fed that's this city is happy to do that for you but if you deserve to raise stellar human beings to be rich in terms of people i know the best people i've ever met my entire life are in los angeles they are talented, they're smart, they're generous, they're genuine.
Speaker: I, it sort of scrambles my brain. So I get my hackles get raised when I go someplace, o yeah plastic people. I'm just like, Oh my God, just stop.
Speaker: Um, so my kids are all of that. And again, my daughter's an amazing graphic artist. Um, my son, He's, he's again, he's a bass player.
Speaker: He's terrific. And I think part of the thing too, is that I have to be careful not to push. I don't push anymore. There's no reason to, I think we, I, by being in Los Angeles and, you know, living in this neighborhood and this house, and um I think you set the stage.
Speaker: You have people that are in, you know, who are doing creative things. you have cultural opportunities to go see films. People make films. Again, the cat the Cal Arshans that we have in our lives, you know, Graham is a frequent visitor to my house.
Speaker: That's just what these people do. And I think it gave gave them permission to pursue these, their again, their dreams and their passions. And I couldn't be more proud. yeah Again, I don't know if you guys have kids or not, but easily...
Speaker: They are, you know, I could win 10 Academy Awards. I could win the National Book Award 10 times, and Nobel Prize. None of that means anything you compared to having, you know, been able to be in the lives of these two kids. so man Yeah. Yeah, we know what you're talking about. We we do have kids and and feel the same way. And Joe joe knows i I would love to live in LA if I could. And I'd love to hear you talk about LA for all of the reasons that you're mentioning.
Speaker: And you've been super generous with your time. Maybe one more sure one more question about really your your life is 58, I think you said.
Speaker: um Where do you see your life going from here? And do you even... if you even think about life this way, I'm not sure that you do. Do you feel that at 58, you have hit a peak somewhere and you're moving forward with your life or is there something out there that is the remaining, I'd like to see this happen or or do this?
Speaker: How do you think about that? I'm curious as a kind of closing question. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: One of the good things I think that seemed like a bad thing at first, again, that late start, um or at least again, as I perceived it to be a late start, age 28 and you show up, you're like, I don't even, this is pre-internet too. You're like, I don't even know how to do this. I remember looking in the back of like the, you know, there's a free weekly in Seattle, The Stranger, which is a great, at least in the time that early 90s it was, in seeing an advertisement for like a film acting class. and I was like, oh, that sounds like a good place to start. um So pre-internet, again, I remember waking up on that first day, my wife went to work.
Speaker: And it's raining outside, you know, after this sort of euphoria of like, yeah, I'm done. I got all this freedom. And then lying in bed and it's raining. The clouds are about 10 feet off the ground. i was like, I have no idea how to go about achieving any of this. so I've always worked very hard. i i think i I feel like I'm just kind of beginning. So the question about the peak, that's been kind of a benefit, I think, is because I think I'm I hesitate to use the verb peaking at the right time, but I think, I feel like I'm getting ready. Yeah. I'm going at the right time because I would say only the past, don't know, we'll say 10 years that I've, that I've only been like, yeah, I think I know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? All the flailing around for the first 20 years where there was a lot of flailing around to going like,
Speaker: okay, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, I know how to I think I know how to do this. And now I'm like, oh, I absolutely know how to do this. And whether it's, you know, ah creatively producing a film in running, and again, the leadership stuff on a set, being the daddy, but also being a creative partner to my producing partner, Azadeh, in being able to speak with her and for her creatively. um i know how to do that.
Speaker: and I know we're terrific together and she's 38 and I'm able to, because I'm 20 years older than her too, is to recognize the things in her that maybe she doesn't because she's still, you know, she's kind of just getting going too. um But I can be like, I see this in you. You know what i mean? I see this, these abilities in you and you need to stay the course because I believe in you. um So I think,
Speaker: That's what the future looks like for me. I hope I have a lot of sentient years left. um One of the things that freaks me out is my dad died at age 56 from Agent Orange-related thrusting cancer. um this I mean, whatever. It's, again, this life that we've all chosen. um you know from vietnam and i've outlived my dad for two years by two years now which is a little freaky but i realized the sort of fragility of this mortal existence and that it can be taken away from us at any time so i think there's always enough for me there's an imperative to keep working all the time and that i think when we're we are collectively you know 58 a day is a day because like this you know what i mean um
Speaker: And whether it's what I consume at the end of the day on you know, a criterion channel or Netflix, it's gotta be something of value. The time that I spend with my children has to be present.
Speaker: um You know, we have this thing that we're all kind of addicted to. i mean, myself included. um i you know, I have to be mindful of that. so I hope in, I hope I've got 30 years of creativity left that we keep, you know, again, telling truthful stories, uh, stories of integrity. Um, and that's about all I can hope for. You know, if i have an ego, of course I want, you know, chi and win an Academy award to get the recognition. um
Speaker: but yeah you know, again, I'm already rich. To be able to do this, to have, again, back in 1983 or whatever, in you know, in having no way out, you know, perceiving that to being here right now. If you could, always tell people, if you could show me my life,
Speaker: at 58 to when I was like, had my Walkman duct taped to my waist and I was mowing my front lawn in a Pittsburgh summer listening to the clash. Um, I would have been like, yeah, dude, you did it. That's awesome. So I have to remember that sometimes, um, I'm, I'm living the dream right now. so Yeah, and you love you love your work and that and that keeps you going. And, um you know, Brian, it took a lot of patience for you to ah get to have a conversation with us or for us to have a conversation with you. And I really appreciate your patience because I know that was a lot of up and down. And we're really grateful for your time. in you know Fascinating time talking to you. You know what, Brian? For whatever it's worth, man.
Speaker: Whatever it's worth. You mentioned, you well, I just want let me say i wanted to say this, that i think because i don't I don't want to let this moment go by without saying it, is that you've um we've just so truly enjoyed just listening and being a part of your thinking for this moment. And that when you talk about being rich in terms of people, I can genuinely say that we just have been enriched today.
Speaker: I could go down the rabbit's hole in about five different ways in your story. Literally, I mean, so at some point, at some point, I hope, I hope that our paths cross again, but certainly for this moment and to be able to be together was certainly enriching us. thanks so much, Brian, for being on the show.
Speaker: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Oh my God. Thank you for your curiosity of just even like, okay, let's talk. Yeah. and that that That was the fastest hour I've had in a long time. I'll tell you what. i'm Absolutely. and egg Is it Joe?
Speaker: Come on down. Rush, please come on out. I will take you. I will. We'll do it. Make you hallucinate in the best. yeah That sounds great. right And we'll spend some records too. Cause I think, you know, you've got to spend some records. was an open invitation, guys. Thank you. i appreciate that.
Speaker: Bye, guys.
Speaker: That was an interesting conversation. Holy moly. That was, I just like, i mean, did you literally know that? I just pushed you out of the way. That was so locked. I mean, that I'm just, it's so funny, Rush. We say this almost every episode. Like, this is the reason why we're doing this thing.
Speaker: It's like, Being able to just have someone to just be present and to it to allow us to explore how they think and for them to hear and to be able to communicate how they think about all kinds of things. i had just It was an absolute delight. i just i I love how he thinks relationship forward.
Speaker: yeah in terms of what is valuable to him. yeah And as he mentioned too, it's so interesting that he had mentioned that there are so many different walks of life and different kinds, both ethnically, religiously, life you know ah time in terms of age and cultures.
Speaker: and And that he has been enriched by all of those relationships while he has been in the context of him being able to express for sure the things that help him to flourish. So...
Speaker: There's, there's him flourishing, you know, which yeah she was able to find his way to be in where it's like, oh, this is what it means to flourish for me. And then to be able to have, to even use his words, just the wisdom to be able to say, wait a minute, that actually my flourishing is in the context of relationship.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. in isolation and to be able to then experience that and to see that with his own kids I'm just like man I just would love to continue yeah It really really stands out to me too that you know obviously you and I have talked recently um over time about just sort of our own lives and the question of you know feeling like, where's my life going? And figuring those things out. And so even with his story, it was another reminder that
Speaker: That just takes time. And you everybody gets there at a different time. And it's kind of a weird thing because you would you would think you know at ah at our age, and even though you're older than I am, at our ages, ah that we would have figured certain things out by now.
Speaker: but we're figuring them out now. And it was a similar kind of thing with the way he described a story. He had to kind of go through that timeframe. That's just a good, that's just a good kind of, that's just a good reminder that it just takes time yeah to and to get there, really put things together.
Speaker: Yeah, to really that there's this convergence that happens of your own maturity just in life, yeah the clarity of things that that really is flourishing.
Speaker: You know, that the the ways in which, because everybody everybody literally is different, right? yeah I think as as we think about who our God is and how he's created and designed, that there is a there is a way in which that God has created as a workmanship, right? For those who are called according to his purpose, that that we that that's embedded into who we are. and i And I think that as image bearers, there is in an embodiment and a ah reflection of design and creativity within humanity and within cultures so that, that the, the way in which some people go, Oh, well I need to, i need to go and find or to have this person or to get what it means for me to live as a human and flourish.
Speaker: But then when you realize that you go, no, wait a minute, that there's this confluence of, of, circumstance and time that actually brings clarity.
Speaker: Not like, hey, I need to realize myself, but more a clarity of what is real. And that is this confluence of um time, of maturity, of experience, of community, yeah and of and of um expression.
Speaker: That over time you go, yeah, you know what? These things are like writing with my left hand. Yeah. But boy, these things, these are the things that just that are that just kind of flow out of um who I am.
Speaker: And that I think it just takes time, Rush, as we're thinking about this. And we've been talking about this so much lately, is that I think it doesn't necessarily take time to have it.
Speaker: but I think that it actually takes time to articulate it. Sure, sure. And to recognize it. Is that a fair observation? Yeah, yeah. i think that's a good that's a good distinction, a good a good point.
Speaker: and and yeah in i think And I think, you know, back to back to Brian, it's like, We didn't really talk about, we didn't really talk about that necessarily. I mean, he kind of alluded to things, but I think that's another thing about relationships is that, is that it also is, it also allows us to to, think differently, you know, to like the conversation that we're having now is because of a conversation that we had with Brian, that our engagement with him wasn't just enriching, but actually it was inspiring or, it kind of moves even more. And I think that's just how God does that, right? That, yeah that I can't, that we've been designed that, that it's, that people who come and visit and ask questions of our thinking, that it brings perspective that's outside of my own, that helps me to draw with more clarity what it is that I do.
Speaker: And that's the beauty of this podcast. And honestly, brother, that's, that's why, man, I'm so glad that you, you hustled this one down. This one, this one was on the hook for a long time. And I'm, and I'm so, yeah, I'm so glad. And, uh, it just makes me excited to do more, you know?
