Transcript
Speaker: Okay, good, good, good. but this is This is fantastic. but i'm I know you've connected with Rush, but I'm Joe. Nice to meet you. Yes. like I'm Rush. Nice to see you, Rush. You too. And actually, Joe, we have connected. i mean, connected is a is a real overstatement. Like a couple of messages on Instagram. And i mean, this is the cool thing, Michael, about our... You like to go by Michael?
Speaker: I go by Michael. Okay. The cool thing about our podcast is that there literally is like no preparation. It is a conversation. I don't, we don't know anything, almost anything about you for real, like your life and how it's gone. Yeah. um So we just love to have a conversation.
Speaker: Yeah, actually, as a matter of fact, Michael, right before we started, we were just talking about like the reason why the reason why we we love doing this is because it just it just keeps us sharp in meeting people. We just really find that there's just a there's a lost art and skill of being able to talk and to engage with people. And and we want to we we want to be we want to continue to be learning how to do
Speaker: Why don't you, maybe just give me, give me the stats. What is, what does life feel like for you right now? How would you describe your life right now? give me some of the, give me some of the stats. What's happening at the, uh, the most presently happening thing is work. I, uh, I have a day job like everybody else. And what's your day job? I work for Coca-Cola.
Speaker: oh I'm a, I'm a truck driver for Coca-Cola right now. I deliver, you know, cases of Coke to grocery stores and gas stations and that kind of thing. Uh, Simple job, but if you've ever known anybody in the beverage industry, it's very, very hard work. I can imagine. It's heavy physical labor and you know how to get my commercial driver's license and all that for it. So that's what occupies me most days at the moment as far as that goes. I worked at UPS in graduate school.
Speaker: Oh, really? So there was lot of, yeah, um can imagine the heavy lifting and yeah not driving a truck or anything, but um that was a really coveted position there for sure. And then what what part of the country are you in? Mississippi. Mississippi. Okay. That's cool. So what's your, what's your, uh, what's your community look like? Who are the people that are around you? who do you say is, how would you describe that? Like, what is it? What it feel like to be you?
Speaker: My daily life is I am in small town, Mississippi these days. ah Just rule um at my family. I'm i'm from Memphis originally. ah That's where most of my family's from. that But my immediate family does live in Mississippi and has for years. And I have lived in different parts of the country back and forth. And for the last two years I've been back in Mississippi.
Speaker: So just very much in a small town, uh, just, you know, doing whatever work I'm doing here. And, uh, you know, i kind of largely keep to myself most of the time, know, but yeah, this small town area.
Speaker: So do you, are your, are your folks still alive? they are yeah oh They are. Yeah. They're alive. I've got two sisters and then I've got, I have no kids, not married, but I have one nephew, which is basically stands in for my kid. So I treat them as such. And then my ah girlfriend's got nieces that are also young. So, you know, I've got kids. I just don't have kids. Yeah.
Speaker: No, as a matter of fact, it's interesting that I think that the role, the role of the uncle The role the uncle and the role of the friend that it's just when kids grow up around adults who care about them and who engage with them and invest in them, that it's so true that it's not like that children, as they grow up in there, that they go, wait a minute, you know what?
Speaker: My mom and dad, obviously they care for me, but there's there's a group of people that all care in the same way from different relationship entry gates. And there's a, and there's a place where like, we haven't like no Kenya, Michael, there are actually people who were not blood related to that, that my children call their aunt or their uncle. It's not everybody. Some people are like, Hey, and uncle, everybody. We're not, we're not a and an aunt and uncle, everybody family, but there are some people that over time,
Speaker: that we just they just start referring to them that way because of the way that they care for them. Just because yeah just because you're an uncle doesn't mean and doesn't mean that you have influence. So I love how you speak about your nephews and your nieces and to be able to speak about them to go,
Speaker: No, you know what? Yeah. Even though he's not my kid, I love him that way. And I think for your nephew to grow up knowing that he has an uncle who loves him, that's a big deal. Yeah. And and I grew up with, I had the cool aunt and cool uncle, you know, that like they, they, they never had kids at the time. So they would take all their nieces and nephews out on trips and Disney world and that kind of stuff. Those were always the fun relatives to hang out with. So I kind of look forward to being, you know, that kind of uncle is, uh, they get older. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. Hopefully showing on the world.
Speaker: That's cool. You know, ah in the first just even 30 seconds, Michael, of talking to you, it's really evident that you are just a good conversationalist. Yeah, it's easy to hang out with you. Yeah, I mean, just for 60 seconds. And, you know, the reason that stands out to me is um Joe and I have talked about this a bit in ah the first season of our podcast. This is the second. um, that it was interesting to see how difficult it can be just to have the conversation. Now, some of this can be intimidating some people, like you're going to like, cause, cause we're strangers to them. So, you know, we see somebody somewhere or we find them. We're like, I'd be really interesting to talk to that person. and we ask you do Why are you talking to me? What do you care? yeah yeah And then like do you want to you want to yeah record our conversation, just like get to know each other? That can be kind of weird. So it's not surprising because the people that tend to hang out with us are a little bit like you are. like They're willing to take a chance on that. They're good at conversation. Yeah, so yeah that's that's the the the way I try to be. let me you this. I'm i'm so curious.
Speaker: if you so what are what are the kinds of things that you would hope your nephew to kind of grow up knowing not ah in two ways. One, knowing about you you, would say, you know what? I hope my nephew grows up. What's your nephew's name?
Speaker: Fox. but Seriously? Yeah. Yeah. but Name here name it after Fox Mulder. His name's Fox Murray. He's named after Fox Mulder and Bill Murray. That's the combination. so Oh, wow. I was probably my sister's choice for that. That's so cool.
Speaker: I a, met a, I met a, uh, I met a Trinity. and met a Trinity and I said, said, Oh yeah, tell me about your family. It's like, well, it it's me. It's me and my brother Neo. And I go, really? Yeah.
Speaker: i goes that whatever she goes, no, it is what it is. parents are Matrix fans. and so You got to be kidding me. Your brother's name is Neil. She goes, yeah, it is. It's exactly what you think. Yeah. So what what would you want? What would you want Fox to grow up? One, knowing about it his uncle. He's going, you know what? This is what I would want for him to know about me.
Speaker: And then secondly, what would you want him to know about what it means to live and to live in this world, right? Because every uncle wants not only for them to be known, but wants them to know certain things. What what would you yeah ah you, if you would listen to this podcast, you know, what, what would you, what would you want to tell them?
Speaker: Probably in the sense of saying I have a you know cool aunt, cool uncle, people like that. My dad's brother ah is ah dad's brother has lived in Germany my entire life. ah he He went over there back in like the 70s and never came back. and When I would see him, he'd come back and visit, but he also took my sisters and I over to Germany when I was younger. to you know He showed us took us on trips to Rome and and wow London and all kinds of stuff like that. I kind of want to repeat that in the sense that I would like to be the uncle that like takes these kids on their first, like overseas trips and like shows on the world. And I would like for them, i mean, I'm really big into history and like foreign affairs and that kind of stuff. Like I'm a very worldly minded person. I guess I would love to see them be the same way, but you know, if they're different than me, great. But I kind of,
Speaker: I guess I just hope that they become as aware of what's going on in the world at all times and maybe get as far outside of their comfort zones as they can and have as many experiences as they can. Because I feel like I have a hard time summing myself up sometimes, but one thing I can figure out is that I pretty much go out of my way to have every experience possible, you know, for better or worse. So...
Speaker: Yeah, that's cool. what do you think um What do you think kind of made you that way? I'm looking at you on the screen. you know Obviously, ah the one listener that we have can't see you, but there's a screen. person where we we My mom started listening. so Yeah, that's true, that's true.
Speaker: Uh, there's a, you know, you've got, you know, some volumes on the shelf there. There's some other books. There is a kind of statue back there. So obviously that's really is kind of cultured. Like what is, what made you so interested in history? And I think I saw actually, i don't know, you were, you were in the military or yeah. Well, thank you for your service. What'd you do the military?
Speaker: Army infantry. Okay. yo Yeah. So what what do you think has kind of shaped that part of you? You know, i obviously you had that those trips, which is amazing to be on those trips as a kid, but.
Speaker: Uh, there, so probably, yeah, having the uncle take me on trips like that. Uh, additionally, when I did the film, when I was a kid, and we'll we'll get around to that. But after the film, they released it overseas, uh, the following year and they sent me around the world promoting it. So I was traveling. Really? Yeah, I was doing overseas business trips when I was like nine years old. No way. I'm sure that played a large role, you know, in getting more into like what was going on in the world. And I was in the military as an adult, but like ever since I was a kid, i have been obsessed with like military aviation.
Speaker: in military history. I just always thought jets were cool and you know yeah tanks are cool. and you know Same thing that you think when you know when you're a kid. So I was always into that, which kind of leads you into you know studying history. And then I have family members who I come from some very, very intelligent high IQ people that were really big into history and kind of, you know, my grandmother used to sit down and just kind of brief me on like the history of the Roman Empire and all that stuff. Way at an age that I didn't care, but later I got older, was like, oh, I know this stuff. So it's a combination of those factors. Those are incredible influences. You're a big reader?
Speaker: Yes. what what it Not as much lately, but I have read a lot. yeah I don't read as much as I used to. but Kind of quickly, like what what do you like to read most? ah Usually, most of the time it ends up being like science fiction. I'll find a good science fiction book that really captures me. and i' you know like ah Foundation, yeah Isaac Asimov, stuff like that. Things that have all been turned into TV shows or movies, but I read them back before they were...
Speaker: turned into shows and movies, you know. ah But yeah, usually science fiction related stuff. um Some couple of Tom Clancy books over the years, things like that, Michael Crichton. ah But yeah, I've always been into that. And lately I've been trying to read, ah I guess, biographies technically by people that I respect or whatnot. I had never really done that before. so Ron Charnoff just came off with that new Mark Twain book, right? Is that how you say his last name?
Speaker: That sounds familiar. I'm not really. That's the guy who Hamilton. Oh, okay. Huh. But when he did really, he released a book about Mark Twain. About Mark Twain. Yeah. Just, yeah. He's a fascinating character. I would think, I would think when you're, when you're delivering, are you able, are you able to have an audio book in?
Speaker: Yeah. You know, I don't do that, but most of the guys I work with have an earpiece in it most of the time, which, you know, every now and then they get in trouble for it. ah But like, generally speaking, everybody's listening to a podcast or something like that. So I should, I should pick that up myself. Yeah. I would think that.
Speaker: Okay. So, so tell me a little bit. So when you, when you travel, so again, i don't, maybe, maybe our listeners, maybe our listeners would know at at at this particular point, but yeah. um So when you were young, when you were a part of different shows, I would imagine. Or was or was the the one in Forrest Gump, was that was that your was that your first and only?
Speaker: Yeah, basically, ah i in i had yeah I had never done any work. I'd never been on camera, done plays or anything, and acting at all.
Speaker: And I landed the role in that movie at eight. So yeah, first thing. And then, of course, it was a huge you know first thing. yeah And ah that kind of that movie was successful enough that...
Speaker: I filmed it in 93, and then it came out in 94, and then in 95, the Oscars happened, and then through the rest of the 95, they were sending me traveling. Basically, there were three years of my life from like age 8 to 10, 11, that it was completely wrapped up in that film, which is more than you normally spend in just one film, basically, but it was just because of the nature and the scale of it.
Speaker: By the time I was 11, though, when that kind of died down and it was the point of like, are you going to try to do more stuff now? I just didn't. When I was 11 years old, I just, you know, as a kid, I didn't have an interest in like spending all my time in auditions and all that. So I didn't really pursue anything after that. And it took until I was probably, i was probably 30 before I ever really did any us genuine acting again. and and So it was just that one really big thing as a kid and then several years in between.
Speaker: So how did the little Forrest Gump role, how how did you pursue that? well Were your parents, were you in into theater and then you had the opportunity? Well, so um I, like said, I'm from Memphis. ah When I was a kid, I really liked movies and had gotten somewhat familiar with like different directors. And when I was a kid, I was saying I wanted to make movies and I had a camcorder.
Speaker: And I would go around recording little home videos just messing them about, you know, on VHS. And when the audition notice came up for that movie in Memphis, my parents saw it and were like, hey, would you like to go to that just for fun?
Speaker: And I did. And we didn't expect it to go anywhere, of course. But when I went to the actual audition, the the casting directors and producers there, they found out about me making home movies and were like, oh, like you really were into this. So that kind of sparked their interest and then they like talked to me and everything. And anyways, it only took about a week or two of me reading in a couple of auditions for them to give me to the part yeah pretty rapidly.
Speaker: And so it started with making home movies as a kid. I would, don't know, what a yeah, the, I mean, what a what a fun, what a fun just moment in time, yeah right? Just to go, yeah, you just have that and you're like, and those are those things where you go, man what in the world and you're, you're a parent. ah My assumption is, so I have, I have kids and obviously I live in LA and so that's just kind of a part of, part of different things. So they'll do different things here and there.
Speaker: And so we travel with them. Did your parent, I would assume that did both of your parents get to travel with you and to be with you during that time? Or was it, your sister get to go with you too?
Speaker: So i had two younger sisters. Mostly my mom was the one that went with me to do most of the filming for the months that that went on. And my dad stayed back at home, taking care of my younger sisters. That's kind of how that that process ran. And it was yeah three months, four months of filming.
Speaker: okay In terms of the international travel? That was both of them. They kind of split that up. Yeah. One one would go one time and another one go the other time. That's cool. That's cool.
Speaker: Do you you have memories? do you have memories of it? I mean, I don't remember much when I was eight, but yeah that's good thing that's a good question. That's what I tell people all the time. It's like, so because of the age, as profound as an experience as being a foreign scump was, there's only so much I absorbed as an eight year old. Same thing with the international travel. Like I've been to Japan, but I can't really tell you much about Japan because i just wasn't taking it in at that age. You know, ah of course, doing stuff as an adult later made all the difference. But ah I absorbed as much as you would as a kid.
Speaker: And also the thing is, is ah stuff like that. Things seem normal to you when you're a kid that would never seem normal as an adult. Landing a part in a movie didn't seem like anything special to me. Right. like I mean, it was just like being on a field trip.
Speaker: yeah And all the adults around me were just like, oh, my God, oh, my God. But I remember that. But I just remember being like, this is just I'm just going to do what they tell me to do and it'll be fun and all that. And, you know, I was just thinking like a kid. So and I do remember stuff. But now this is a big thing that as I have talked to the adults that were present later in life, a lot a lot of what I know now about myself as a kid, I had to be refreshed on that more recently.
Speaker: Like I've talked to producers and other actors that were in the film and are like, do you not remember this? And i'm like, no. And they're like, well, I'll tell you about it. You know, they're like, I remember it. and So i've been I've been filled in a lot over the last few years through other people.
Speaker: what What has been, so as you think about that, what what are your what are your most meaningful most meaningful memories? What would you say? out of all of those. um And then also, and then also what is a new, what was a new story that had been told to you over the last couple of years that you were like, oh, that was really interesting.
Speaker: So first, meaningful and most interesting, what would you say? Yeah, ah the, I'd say like, most meaningful thing was probably just the level of camaraderie that existed, even as a kid on a set working with people, you know, like it was a family doing this job and, uh, you know, people get really close, really quick in those situations.
Speaker: Um, and, uh, the, just the experiences that they allowed me to have going back to like the military thing when I was, Shooting the movie and they were finding ways to keep me entertained one weekend having the influence of a movie studio. They sent me to a Marine base and let me go play around and like a fighter jet and everything and meet the pilot yeah stuff like that. Just really crazy experiences you would never have otherwise, you know, oh things like that. Watching watching the filming of some of the bigger scenes like the vietnam scenes and stuff like that like seeing how a movie is made from the inside like a big one uh and then the people themselves the people i met i mean my relationship to them was like kind of like a relationship you have with like school teachers you know like ire my first and second grade teachers that were really nice to me but that's kind of how that was um but uh the uh
Speaker: Oh, new stories. The home movie thing, for example, I didn't remember that until I talked to the producer from the movie last year. And she was like, she was like, that's why we hired you. She was like, yeah she filled me in why they hired me, for example.
Speaker: So the home movie thing, some of the stuff about my personality as a kid. ah And yeah, things like that. That's cool. do you um Now, I have been wanting to ask this question. So if you don't mind, if I can go down like the nerd lane for a minute. Yeah. So, okay. So here I had heard ah two questions. One is, is that...
Speaker: i It's my understanding that, oh, back up a little bit. So I've actually watched ah actually watch an unusual amount of behind the scenes stuff on that film.
Speaker: And actually, it was interesting because Rush and I had connected over that ah well before well before we met you. And, uh, anyway, so I, I'd heard some things and I want to see if you can confirm this for me. So one of it was, is that, is that, is that, was that your actual voice?
Speaker: Yes. as ah As a kid like that, that you just talked that way normally. Yeah. Yeah. That was my accent, you know, from Mississippi at the time yeah as an eight year old. yeah Yeah. That was genuinely the way I talked. I, and was, I've wondered if like, if it was, uh,
Speaker: particularly like more pronounced than other people or kids. like I can't remember if everybody talked that way when I was a kid, but like I certainly did. Yeah. and yeah So interesting. And then then I had also heard an interview that tom ah Tom Hanks had mentioned that he did not know the voice of Forrest Gump until he actually until he actually engaged with you. yeah he said that once he met you, that that's what inspired what now is this academy award-winning dynamic that you inspired him in that is is that your understanding too yeah yeah and again some of again this is stuff that i only learned kind of recently myself uh in the past few years that tom's talked about all this you know i've obviously heard the same thing and i've talked to him about it and all that but that's a legit what happened with him and uh uh there's another producer from the film uh steve starkey uh he's worked with robert zemeckis on a lot of stuff yeah He just put out a book about his his memoir of making Forrest Gump called Stupid as the Superdust. Yeah. And I've been reading that and I get mentioned a few times and he just mentions like like apparently I was obsessed with peanut butter when I was a kid. I don't remember that, but little things like that. But on the thing with Tom, yes, ah they found me, they cast me for the part and we did all the prep and pre-production and they were planning on ah me losing the accent.
Speaker: obviously to talk the way that Tom talks. And, uh, that was always the plan. And I don't know, I don't know why they thought that would be easy, but apparently that was, they were like, he's perfect for the part, except the way he talks.
Speaker: And obviously a little ways into it. Uh, they ended up at some point deciding, well, it'd be easier for Tom to just learn to talk like me, you know, trained adult actor, obviously it'd be easier. So he did that just for practical purposes. But once he actually started using that voice, he's like, oh, hell, this is perfect. You know, yeah like it fit the character perfectly. And he had never really thought about it in that that frame before, you know, and he started to borrow some of my personality characteristics, too, at the time.
Speaker: Like I know how ah there were there were scenes that they filmed that were later cut. that they had filmed earlier in the process where he went and looked at them in the editing room and was like, he's like, I'm um'm i'm not fully developed as Forrest Gump in these scenes. Later on down the road, i mean, they were like, the way I stood and the way I like do my hands and things like that, obviously the way I talked, that was all kind of gleamed for me as a kid.
Speaker: i mean i mean, again, but is like out of all the things out of all the things you go, man, what ah what a what a strange and wonderful yeah part of little part of your history. yeah And it's also it's also kind of peculiar, too, that that because you are a part of it, but yet at your age, that you actually are able to enjoy it to continue and to enjoy the memories of that through the relationship and memories of others who are sharing you. And I, it's, I mean, that, that happens to, I mean, that happens to me like at family reunions, right? They're like, Oh yeah, Joey, Joey, you did this. and when I'm like, I have no, I got no clue. That's exactly right. and that yeah I have to be briefed a lot on my childhood activities. Why? Yeah. Family members and older friends. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah And for and for our two viewers as well, you actually do look like an adult version of where you what you look like as a kid. So I just want to let you know. he knows that. I think he knows that. Because sometimes people grow up and they're like, you don't look anything like you did when you were a kid, but you really do. the yeah you So I'm glad i'm glad you're you know you're a good looking kid because it stuck with you.
Speaker: i appreciate it. I cut my hair like in the last six months. I had my hair down past my shoulders. and you hu Yeah, and I always felt like that kind of hit it a little bit more. And whenever I wrong go shorter hair, I'm like, okay, people start kind of like saying you look like that guy. so Has anybody done that to you?
Speaker: Was like just as somebody walked up to you and go, Oh yeah. Yeah. i've Most often somebody gets told who I am, but I have several times in my life had somebody just out of the blue, stop me on the street and say, Hey, you look like the kid from Forrest Gump. but And I was like, i'm so I'm amazed that you just picked me out like that. kidding you know That's crazy. All right. I'm going to ask you a question. I'm going to ask both of you this question. Actually first, Joe, what color is your shirt?
Speaker: it is Are we wearing the same color shirt? it khaki? No, it's kind of khaki. Yeah, it's like brown it's like brownish. Oh, okay. Brownish, yeah. This is my and this is this is my ah my bedroom here.
Speaker: My little high-quality studio. By the way, speaking of which, Michael, that um that bust that's behind you, that's actually a planter, isn't it? Yes, it is. and that same planer habit it I'm trying to remember where it came from. have that same planner. It probably came from like Ikea or something. i can't really remember from where I got it out. Everything ends up coming from Ikea. Here's a question for both of you. I'm going to embarrass myself first and then ask you this question. And first to Michael. I'm waiting for what say.
Speaker: You just still love to laugh, don't you? ah ah um So I'm thinking about, Michael, your experience with that film. Yeah. and what a big deal that is and how influential it I think that it is. Obviously, you're still talking to people about it.
Speaker: And I think in my life, I don't really have something. The closest thing I have to that is probably just basketball. i played in high school and college. Yeah. There's a lot of basketball in my family. And this is the embarrassing part. I've noticed that even today at 47, almost 48, I don't think there's a day that goes by that I don't pretend to shoot a basketball in the mirror or that I don't pretend to dunk on a doorframe.
Speaker: yeah Every day, it has some... role in my life. It's a weird, sad kind thing. It's part of your identity. ah you Like the idea of you playing. yes Yeah. yeah yeah yeah So my question to you about that is, is Forrest Gump daily aspect of your, you're you do you think about the movie? Do you think about your role or is that that's who you are every day? I don't – in particular – well, Forrest Gump in particular is actually the other way around. Most of my life, I forget that I was ever in it because on a normal day, it doesn't really pertain to my daily life. yeah And it's usually just been when other people bring it into the picture. yeah But otherwise, I wouldn't really think about it very often. Yeah.
Speaker: And and ah for a long time, ah that being in that film was – I don't want to use the word traumatic, but it made such an impact on my childhood yeah that from like the age of – I don't know. From the time I was a teenager up until I was about 30, I actually like did everything I could to stay away from it.
Speaker: I didn't want to i didn't talk about it. I avoided conversations about it. yeah I just kind of went the other direction. I guess I got saturated on the attention. I can understand that. didn't want anything to do with it anymore. um But in more recent years, I've made a point to be more like, just embrace it, you know, and just let it, let it be whatever it is.
Speaker: But what you were asking, I haven't done that with the movie, but I would say that like every day I look in the mirror and I, I always think like, how would you look if you were on a camera or on stage right now? Okay. Yeah. I think like, like think like an actor in a way, you know, yeah that's the thing. And that's probably vanity it is sometimes feel like, still, I'll look at it. I'm ah like, like, hold yourself, you know, hold yourself like you're being recorded all the time. So it kind of hits me like that. But it just speaks so much to the way that our, our imagination plays out in just the fantasy of our life.
Speaker: You know, like what my life has meant. Joe, do you have, I was going to ask you the same question. Is there something like that for you that every day you notice or frequently it's this thing that you either daydream about? Like, that's what I'm doing. I'm kind of daydreaming about basketball.
Speaker: ah do you Would you daydream about something? I i don't. I don't. I have a very uninteresting thing. That's not true. it's all like i That's not true. I imagine you know what it's like to wash my car or take out the trash. That's not true. ah Michael, Joe has a very interesting life. literally don't. I literally don't. I i think i think I probably... No, I don't. Yeah, I really don't. I think the thing that that most captivates me is the when we think about those things of how you imagine yourself, I think when I think of myself, I try to, I try to, um I think I most think of myself as husband and father, probably more so than, more so than anything. I think if I think about myself, I think about myself in the context of my marriage, which is probably the, probably the way that I think about that. That makes sense. You know, which, which is, yeah which you know Which is an adventure in and of its own, but you know nobody's going to be doing a movie about me.
Speaker: You never know. yeah You never know. So let me so let me let me ask you, so when you talk about, and you it was a throwaway comment, but it it really captivated my attention when you talked about just the the saturation of attention.
Speaker: Is that... So when you go, man, living that, and again, it's not like it's this run of the mill experience. You're talking about a global cultural moment that happened, not only in cinema, but certainly for, you know, for a certain, certain of a generation. yeah Oh yeah. yeah yeah It's a, it's a historical moment. Oh, central to my upbringing.
Speaker: Yeah. And really what year was it? 90 94. that's central to my high school experience. Yeah. So if you think about it, so you're saying, man, for three years, it's not just like, hey, hey it was something he did. It's like, man, it's like a really ah global thing. Yeah. And you use the word saturation of attention. And then after that was done, just going, you know what? I just would rather just go somewhere and not ah be somewhere and not be recognized or engaged. or just want to I just want to kind of do that. Maybe talk a little bit about...
Speaker: what the what the saturation kind of felt like and and what was the you know the what was refreshing about being away? Maybe talk a little bit about that if you don't mind. Well, yeah i you know I came from a small town ah when I got the part. And then after the three years, because we didn't, but my parents and I, because we didn't continue to pursue movie roles after that,
Speaker: I tried to go back to just living in a small town again, you know, during my high school years, which in retrospect just didn't work. Like the, the, as big as that was and everybody in the world knew about it, there was no way for me to just like, just, you know, blend in. Right. Right. Yeah. So like the, you know, that whole time up through the time I was 18, it was like basically every day, a hundred times a day, somebody had to bring up,
Speaker: the film and it's kids you know you're already happy me when you're a teenager so as a kid it kind of made me more like alienated and withdrawn from everybody you know my grades went down and i started skipping school a lot and all that kind of stuff it certainly pushed me in the wrong direction as a kid uh not to i'm not you know dissing the experience but like it's just it was a lot to take in you know for a child what what was hard what was hardest about high school but like In light of that, like, yeah you know, ah i i know exactly what it was. Having been in that film, my experience was that everybody wanted to ask me about it.
Speaker: And that was immediately followed by what are you doing now? The fact that I wasn't doing anything afterwards just destroyed me. As in like, I was just like, I'm like, everybody's expecting something special that I'm letting everybody down. every time know Like it was like, how could you be in that and not be in Hollywood doing more? And i' the answer, I was like, I have no idea. I couldn't tell you why not. It doesn't make any sense either. And I don't remember what, what series of choices happened is as I was a kid that led to that. I just know that for whatever reason, I didn't try to do more. Yeah. uh, when I was that age. And so, but yeah, I always felt like I was letting people down with the answer of I'm not doing anything else. And that went on for years up into like my twenties where I just felt like I was failing to, uh, impress people the way they were expecting. oh yeah And that drove a lot of my choices, but often in the negative direction, you know, I became, you know, I would, uh, I was an especially,
Speaker: ah Not really in trouble all the time, but I would act out a lot when I was a teenager. And i was if you dared me to do something, I was going to do it.
Speaker: Because in my mind, everybody expects me to be the coolest kid in school. yeah And if I can't actually be cool, then I'm going to be the kid that everybody thinks is just nuts. I don't know. It was just that whole teenage yeah you know hurricane thing going on. Do you feel like you've – if it's okay to ask you this – do you feel like you've gotten over that?
Speaker: Do you feel like you still have some of that? To an extent, yeah. So I don't – I'm not as – I'm not immature yeah still just doing that anymore. But I do – ah I do feel driven to deliver on my own expectations of myself, I guess. like There's things that I think I should be doing and I feel like I have to achieve those. ah And I'm not sure how much of that's like, are you doing it for yourself or are you doing it for what other people see? It's always a big question that I'm not quite sure about. you know um
Speaker: There's things I want to do and I'm like, yeah, am I trying to do that Based on what other people will think of me or am I doing it because that's what will fulfill me? ah But yeah, I'm probably not fully escaped from it.
Speaker: Being in the army was about a lot of things, but at the time being in the army was about as much as fulfilling expectations of other people as it was anything else. I actually at that age thought ah that's when Iraq was kicking off. And I was like, I'm tired of people asking me about this movie. If I go into an actual war, that'll give them something new to talk about.
Speaker: Wow. I kind of joined partially for that reason to escape. Wow. That's super insightful. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I'll have that on my resume now. So, and I'm not exactly doing crazy stuff nowadays just for that. It's not the same, mean I'm older to more mature now and all that, but yeah, yeah, certainly, I certainly feel like I should be doing other stuff sometimes and and I need to get that rolling.
Speaker: like well does it it does um It does lend to does len to what I think i think every what you're saying there, and even just as Rush and I are listening, it just my my heart is drawn to that.
Speaker: Because I think the everybody, i mean, obviously on ah on a grand and global context, that how you've experienced that. But I think everybody in the end, I think, wants to be known for who they are, not necessarily what they do. Yes.
Speaker: And so to be, to be in a context where everybody is engaging with you on what you've done and asking, Hey, what are you going to do? And you're like, well, wait a minute. Like, am I, am I who, am I what I do?
Speaker: or am a Or am I who I am? and then in those early days, on those early days, going, wait a minute, who who am I, right? as ah As a high school student or whatever. I mean, does any of that resonate, Michael, with how you were processing? Am I hearing you right?
Speaker: No, that sounds about right. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I was ah yeah more trying to let people know me as me, whatever that was, rather than just what they already knew about me. Like you said, it's stuff that I had done or was going to do or anything.
Speaker: And ah yeah, that's always there's always been a little bit of that going on. um And even you know and like in present day, like the stuff that I'm doing right now, I...
Speaker: my ah Driving trucks for Coke, you know, in Mississippi. yeah There's other stuff I could probably and should probably be doing, you know, like in the entertainment field there. I have no excuse for not pursuing it now.
Speaker: ah And I just haven't. And I'm not sure. Sometimes I'm not sure why. yeah do you feel do you feel an obligation that you need to To an extent. I've got this. You know, you got this thing from like when I was a kid where like there is, i've I've discussed this with my acting coach that I had many, many times, you know, doing the therapy on this stuff. But like to what extent ah do I ever feel like pursuing acting just because I'm like, am I just doing it because that's what the world says I'm supposed to do? Or, you know, or like you're yeah versus like, do I actually have a passion for it? You know? yeah And there's been several things in my life. I've done a lot of different professions. Like I've been,
Speaker: I'm driving trucks now. I've been a transit cop. I was in the army, yeah yeah just a bunch of million different things. you know and like i've never I've had a few different professions, but I've never stuck with any of them long term. you know I've just tried a little bit of everything.
Speaker: ah the only two things I've ever done that I actually find fulfilling are acting and being in the military. So I'm like, to an extent, I'm like, I know I like those two things and I know that, you know, I really do enjoy them, but like, I'm to a certain degree, i do feel like ah there are things I feel like I want, there are things I want to achieve, uh, just so I guess I can fulfill that, like that whole of expectations from when I was a kid, if that makes any sense, you know?
Speaker: I don't think I could sit here doing the same thing I'm doing right now for the rest of my life. I know I couldn't. and be I'd go crazy. you know well i gonna why is that her all is that what Why is that? See, and that's the thing.
Speaker: I come from like a blue-collar, hardworking person world. That's all my friends, all my family, like everybody I've known. yeah I have a lot of respect for just getting by.
Speaker: you know You work hard, you pay the bills, you have a family. Yep, yep. So for me to sit here and sometimes be like, well, I should be doing more with myself. I feel like I'm disrespecting that entire class of people that I come from.
Speaker: So I'm like, no, you don't. yeah Simultaneously, i just look at my background and all the stuff I've done. And there's like, there's no reason you should ever just be sitting here not doing more. I don't know. It's kind of a weird paradoxical thing. you know yeah I fight with myself sometimes in my head over like you know over how I see myself and what kind of person I am. Yep.
Speaker: So I'm getting off into a weird tangent here, but no, you're actually not not and know you're not they no, yeah no, you're not. is actually, this is actually really, it's so kind of you to actually let us to hear how you think.
Speaker: oh Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's not a weird tangent to me. It's actually a normal tangent because these are the things that I think every single person is dealing with in a different kind of way. And ah it does, you know, just like you said earlier in our conversation, just it has everything to do with your identity as a person and wrangling the what that identity means, what's the what's the real essence of it, what's the part that's being driven by other people, expectations. and so any
Speaker: That's a good little segue, I think, because i I wanted to ask you, do you feel like you're able to take those aspirations and divide them so that you, you might be able to see this is something I want to do and I don't want to do it because somebody else says I should want to or that i feel obligated to There's just something, this is a thing I want to go do because I want to do it.
Speaker: Yeah. I think some those things for you. ah Shoot, main mainly these days, just ah um I guess the one thing I would like to do more than anything, if I could pick anything right now, is just do, art you know, be a working actor.
Speaker: Just have that pay the bills, you know, yeah not be a movie star, just be a working actor, you know. Uh, and I've kind of, I, I'm too, I'm not, yeah, I'm too old to be in the military again. So if, uh, I kind of wish I'd stayed in the army. That was the other thing I kind of fell in love with, but I only did it for four years and then got out.
Speaker: Uh, now I look back, I'm like, man, I should have just done my 20 and retired. so So what would be your step? What would be your next step in that direction? If you, you know, took a step and you, you, you are having conversations, you know, you're in, you're in communication with like,
Speaker: directors and producers and whatever. like I've got friends, you know, but it's like, I have never really, I've got a lot of friends. Um, but I would, the step I'm at right now is the same step I've been at for years, which is that I just kind of need to get off my ass and go get an agent and, and start trying out for stuff. And, uh, I just haven't, you know, I do a lot of theater.
Speaker: I've done a lot of theater for the last several years. Yeah. Yeah. I've been doing that, but, uh, I haven't like actively pursued, you know, film and TV work or whatever, but yeah, there's, it's the same steps that anybody that wants to be an actor has to take, you know, ah you got to put a little bit of work into it and have some material to, to give to an agency and everything. yeah just need to make that happen.
Speaker: And then maybe one day the friends I have can help me along. But I do think that anything I do needs to be under my own steam and my own effort. Not like, hey, I don't want to go to anybody that I know and be like, do this for me or make this happen. I'm trying to get there on my own. you know Well, we'll prepare yourself prepare yourself for this because anytime Joe turns his face perpendicular to the camera and stares off like that,
Speaker: stroking his chin. There's something profound and deep next. I'm just telling you, Michael, once this podcast hits, just just you're going to strike out your next three years. It's just going to be international fame. I'm just letting you know right now, just get ready.
Speaker: Talk to everybody now. You're like, listen, most interesting person in the world podcast is going to drop and it's going to go global. Oh, but that would be excellent. Yeah, that's not going to happen.
Speaker: Well, I tell you what, it has just been, it's been such a joy to, to journey with your thinking. And, um, and if you, would would you say, what is what does contentment feel like for you?
Speaker: If you were to describe, you know what, this is, this is what it feels like. You know, I struggle with that question just like I struggle with the identity thing. Yeah. I guess that is, uh,
Speaker: I've come, I've started to say that the reason I like acting so much is because you get to pretend to be somebody else all the time. And so it frees you from knowing who you are, you know, and I'm kind of serious about that a little bit. You know, it's half joke, half serious. yeah The contentment thing, that's something too. I wonder, I'm like, what is it that actually makes you happy? And I think,
Speaker: the best answer I can come up with is seeing other people happy. You know, like if, if everybody around me is miserable, it doesn't matter what I, you know, you can't, I don't know. I can't, I can't be happy if everybody else around me is not doing okay. So I guess I've spent a a lot doing well a lot of what I do to try and help the people around me. And that kind of makes me happy. i mean, it does, but as far as like what, uh, what's actually for me, i mean,
Speaker: Travel seems to be a big one. Yeah. Staying on the move and staying busy. You know, the more idle I am, the more depressed I get. You know, a lot of people are like that. So I just know not to be apathetic about things. yeah so are you Are you happy today? Are you happy this week?
Speaker: Yeah, more so than I've been in a while, which is good news. you um I'm in the, ah not to be dramatic about it, but I'm in the same category as all of the other ah combat veteran guys. Yeah. We're all screwed up, like, from from Iraq and Afghanistan and everything. Mm-hmm. It took me 20 years to figure that out because I've been denying that for a long time. And I'm like, now everybody that's been involved in that, it's all kind of messed up in the same way. It's hard to put your finger on what it is, but it's a struggle to find contentment in the world sometimes. times
Speaker: And I know it's got a lot to do with ah In the military, you find camaraderie and a sense of purpose that you don't have as a civilian.
Speaker: yeah You lose those two things. And we're all struggling with it. And that's just my version of it. you know And I've got to plug something here. Go for it. On that topic is actually very important. um My – military So I was Army, and I was in Iraq in 2006, the Battle of Ramadi, which is – you've heard of Of course, we're all familiar with that.
Speaker: ah There was the Battle of Ramadi in 2006, and my Army unit was that. ah That was our unit. mean know We were of that – Stationed there and running that AO and everything. Anyways, that was 20 years ago.
Speaker: And my former brigade commander is organizing a reunion for next year for all of these soldiers and sailor and airmen and Marines that were at the Battle of Armadi.
Speaker: wow Wow. We're hoping that any of them that can will show up in January, 2026 for this reunion. Uh, we are currently trying to put it together. Um, and we're also looking for donations, you know, anybody that can help us out with that. Uh, the Gary Sinise foundation's already pledged.
Speaker: assistance with us. Oh, cool. Right. So it's good you that's a good cross-section of you know my lot my history and all that. But um they're helping with that. And mainly, I'm trying to get the word out because of all the hundreds or thousands of people that were in Ramadi with us,
Speaker: I guarantee half of them, it's impossible to get word to them that we're having this reunion. you know Not everybody's on social media or whatever. I'm just basically trying to promote it as much as possible. That's cool.
Speaker: so That's cool awesome. yeah i'm glutton I'm glad you mentioned it because we'd love to be able to be of support to that and to be able to help, especially for everyone who had that experience to be able to see each other again. Yeah. Be able to have a connectedness. And that's what it is, man. It's going to be the best therapy any of us could possibly have is seeing each other again.
Speaker: You know? So who who has, who has um maybe a couple more questions if you don't mind and then we'll, um we'll let you go. But what, what has helped you, you know, you've mentioned a couple of different times, like, you know what I've just recently, or this has been helpful to me, or I've been able to have, do you, who are you having these kinds of conversations with or what has been helpful to you to bring some clarity on how you think about yourself and, and what, what true happiness is?
Speaker: Oh, that's hard to put my finger on. Reaching out to people as simple as that is. Cool. I've been really, really bad. I'm, I'm the world's worst at never getting back to people.
Speaker: Uh, People that I was extremely close friends with throughout my life and where I've lived in different parts of the country or been in the military with, like I will lose contact with people entirely, even though they're trying to get in touch with me.
Speaker: And, uh, and I found that like when I make the effort to really stay in touch and be more personable, like it makes all the difference in the world for my yeah emotional and mental health. You know, uh, I just know not to get reclusive, which I've done in the past. Good.
Speaker: Yeah. it's It's interesting. You know, I like today and again, you've just been, you've been really kind to us. I mean, there's just, there's the, I, you know, when you talk about that joy, that your joy comes from seeing other people's joy, I just want to say to you today, Michael, I just,
Speaker: I've really enjoyed hearing how you think. I've really enjoyed very easy to be with you. Yeah. um You know, and, and just thank you. Thank you for, ah for getting back to us. Thank you for, yeah for spending time with us. It just, um it's been so easy to be with you. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, you bet. and And, also too, it's just, it's refreshing to us, right? That I think the way in which that humanity flourishes is not in isolation, but in relationship. And you've given us an opportunity to connect. We, if you don't mind, and maybe we, um we could, we could end our time here, but if you don't mind, you know, um would love to, would love to connect with you again and to hear, sure to hear more. I yeah really appreciate that. I'm really, if I stay on the work I'm doing, I should have some good updates, you know, yeah in the hopefully near future.
Speaker: Well, it really has been cool to talk to you, Michael. And for this, you know, this little podcast ah is exactly, this is exactly what we want it to be. i mean, it's, you know, um we've talked about this before. joe and I have just ah a common interest in you know, like it could be seeing somebody on a street corner and just wondering, I wonder where that guy goes.
Speaker: You know, I wonder what that lady's like. What are they interested in? Or even the way it was with you. Like, honestly, i I showed Forrest Gump to my kids yeah a few weeks ago, and I thought, wonder where that kid is.
Speaker: Like, what's that kid like? What's that kid like today? What's he think about? What's he doing? You know? Yeah. And that's what we're kind of putting on display is like everybody has this, you know, I'm not asking like, where's Tom Hanks?
Speaker: Where's like, where's that kid? And here he is. Yeah. You know, it's very cool. And by the way, by the way, and then we'll, we really will, this is like at a party where you say goodbye 15 times, but this will be my last time. I just, I feel compelled to say this honestly.
Speaker: i just I really want you to walk away from this podcast knowing that the most interesting thing about you is not the fact that you were on that movie yeah to me. just I just want you to know that. and just like for really I've really, really enjoyed hearing how you think.
Speaker: And for whatever it's worth, i just wanted to i just wanted to say that. yeah Well, I accept that. Thank you for saying so much. All right. Until next time, Michael. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And I want to say again what I said at the end. Holy smokes. that's That is the whole point. Wow. That was like the you know such and such a open dude. oh Just like transparent. Really cool. at the at the end At the end, I so enjoyed talking to them. i just I know you were landing the plane already, but I just wanted to go, hey, listen. like I thought that was beautiful, honestly. like I was listening to you. Very important. heard did I just wanted you to know, look.
Speaker: we walked We walked away just really just enjoying you. And that that that that journey for him, like you had mentioned, it's not unfamiliar to anybody.
Speaker: Everybody's trying to find a go, okay, what is it that... what is it that people are going to recognize me for? And how does that relate to who I, who I am and how do I relate to others?
Speaker: I mean, his, his honesty about that journey and even where he is today, it's like, again, I'm telling you, Rush, it's like every single person. I know. It's awesome. It's like you go into the conversation and you're like, and just, and just the kindness of people to go, yeah, you know, this is actually how I think about things. And that is the most interesting thing to be able to see humanity reflect itself in so many ways that you just would never guess.
Speaker: but that that that made those two connections. No, not in a million years. life And really, truly truly, I'm being serious. Like what you said at the end, i think he will he will will remember. That was a profound thing to say. i mean, that's what i was I was sort of trying to get at with saying, you know, ah where's that kid today? Like that kid's a person, that kid's an adult now. How does he see the world? you know And, but the way that you put that to him, I feel like,
Speaker: was important for him to hear. And that was good good of you. And I hope that won you know stays with him. And like we talked about in the beginning, it was also good, like we didn't bring up Forrest Gump.
Speaker: He brought it up, you know, and, and, uh, you know, i hope that was evident to him. I was to ask one more question of him. And I then i i took i had a couple of nerdy questions to that, but I did, but I did ask the reason for with it. Yeah. What was your, question what was your going to, no, no, no, you go. No.
Speaker: Was it a Forrest Gump question? yeah i I'll pretend I'm Michael. but Was it a Forrest Gump question? I had one more Forrest Gump question, and but then it was just going to be poor form at that point. It was more on set. It was more like on set type stuff, but.
Speaker: I wanted to know because he stayed in touch with some of the people. Where is little Jenny? Yeah. the The little Jenny of his scene. ah That would be really interesting to know. Yeah. So, but at that point it was going to be just like, it's enough. Like don't ask Guy another Forrest Gump question.
Speaker: That was a big part of my high school days. I gotta tell you, listen, it this, I mean, this whole thing that we enjoy together is just built off of our own curiosity. They were watching a movie, classic Rush, Rush White.
Speaker: Hey, I wonder where that guy is. You know what? I'm going to figure it out. and you did. And I say, Joe, listen to this. You did. That's who's going to be on here. There you go laughing again. You know? was man I'm going to think about that guy. going to be thinking about that guy all night long. yeah Just like, what? Just.
Speaker: Wow. That's good stuff. That was good stuff. And, you know, I tell you what, those Coke drivers, man. They're like, they're the real deal, man. You gotta, you gotta to huff a lot. You gotta huff a lot of stuff, dude. That's like no messing around.
Speaker: Well, speaking of no messing around, gotta roll. gotta roll.
