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Beyond the Pitch Episode 80: Women's Football in the Middle East
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Join Catherine for an episode all about women's football in the Middle East - talking about the development of leagues in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, how women's football can help society, and next steps.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Beyond the Pitch'
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Hello and welcome to Beyond the Pitch, a daily women's football podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network.
Women's Football in the Middle East: Progress and Future
00:00:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm Catherine and today I'm going to be talking to you about women's football in the Middle East, how it developed, how I believe it can make a difference in society and where it needs to go from here.
History and Stereotypes in Middle Eastern Football
00:00:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
So to start off, let's talk a little bit about the history of football in the Middle East. Football's really popular in the Middle East. It has been for quite a long time. Obviously, football Middle East and football nowadays has this kind of, um I think it the stereotype would be of players like Cristiano Ronaldo kind of big players going to the Saudi league um and it certainly has been that in recent times however originally the men's league was actually created back in 1974 so that that interest in football has been there for a long time and just speaking as somebody who
00:01:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
spent a lot of time um in the area, I can say that they really do love football. It is a sincere love and affection for it. um yeah So in recent years, though, it has been characterized by heavy
International Tournaments and Regional Highlights
00:01:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
investment. ah So they really want to make the Saudi Pro League kind of equal to something like La Liga or the Premier League.
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Global Sports Podcast Network
In the men's game you get lots of high-profile managerial appointments and players like as I mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo, there's also Jordan Henderson has been over, Steven Gerrard at time of recording I think is still a manager in the Saudi Pro League. He might have been sacked by the time this comes out though um because it's not going very well. And this all kind of led to Qatar hosting the World Cup in 2022 So thinking about the women's side of things, media, well, the most organized media say that the World Cup in 2022 was the first kind of major international tournament that had been hosted in the region, certainly the first World Cup. That actually isn't true. The under 17 Women's World Cup was hosted in Jordan in 2016.
Morocco's Success and Development Challenges
00:02:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Putting that into context, what else was happening in 2016?
00:02:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
That was the year before the Netherlands won the Euros. And the WSL was in full flow. ah Manchester United didn't have a women's team at the time. They disbanded ah before they eventually got got back together. That sounds like ah it's a pop group, doesn't it? No, they were reformed in 2018.
00:02:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah In terms of women's national teams, Morocco has probably enjoyed the most success. ah They reached the 2022 Africa Cup of Nations final which I believe was eventually won by Desiree Ellis's South Africa and they also qualified for the 2023 World Cup. um Morocco was actually one of the first countries, it might actually have been the first, I need to check this out, to have two professional tiers of women's football
00:03:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And some of their facilities do look absolutely outstanding. If you have a look at some pictures online of these facilities they do look quite grand. um In 2020, the Moroccan FA unveiled a four-year plan to develop a women's football program that they hoped would mean they would dominate Africa. Now, I'm guessing that was interrupted partly by COVID.
Leadership and Policy Changes in Women's Football
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I should check because four years after 2020 is now. ah So I should check on how that's going, but I would assume that they were interrupted by COVID.
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So football is also popular in other parts of the Middle East. um For example, in Jordan, women started creating their own teams in the early 2000s. And we have kind of um an ally hero to talk about. Prince Ali bin Hussein has been a big supporter of women's football, particularly in Jordan.
00:04:30
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He was the an integral part of FIFA's 2014 decision to lift their ban on wearing a hijab during football matches. um Of course, a hijab is face is kind of the face covering that a lot of people, particularly in that region, wear for religious personal reasons. And obviously that being banned meant that a lot of these women and girls couldn't play football because they wouldn't be able to um kind of were what they want wanted or you know with whilst playing football which is really sad and so that was a really good decision. He also created the Asian football development program aiming to amplify women's football in the Middle Eastern Gulf state countries. The Gulf state
Club Growth and League Establishment in Saudi Arabia
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countries are kind of the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain,
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as members of the Asian Football Confederation. We'll come back to the Asian Football Confederation or AFC as I'm going to call it. It's what the Champions League, um they kind of run the Champions League for that area of the world.
00:05:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
So in Saudi Arabia a few women's clubs started operating as well in the mid-2000s. The Kings United and Eastern Flames were both formed in 2006. What else was happening in 2006 to put this into context? um I was in secondary school if that helps. I think 2006 I was in year 10 going into year 11.
00:06:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah There's some good um insight for you. The Eredivisae over in the Netherlands was formed the next year, was formed in 2007.
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and yeah So in 2008 there was an informal competition in Saudi Arabia with seven teams. There was another informal competition in 2019.
00:06:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And these kind of prompted the Saudi F.A. to launch a women's competition in 2020. They kind of seen um the popularity of football across the world and then women's football as well. And the back off the back of kind of knowing these teams were there, they decided to launch a women's competition.
00:06:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Initially, it was a national league. There were 24 teams across three regions. And if you look at a map, Saudi Arabia is quite a big country. So 24 teams actually makes sense, even though it sounds like a lot because it is a big country.
00:07:03
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In 2022,
Challenges in Player Diversity and Development
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the year that England won the Euros, just putting that out there, Saudi Arabia established the Women's Premier League, which is kind of what the league is today. It's very similar to the WSL in that 10 clubs take part from across the country. um There's the Asian Champions League for the top teams to go into alongside the top teams of other countries. And there's relegation for the bottom team.
00:07:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
The same team has won ah the two iterations of the competition so far. That's Al-Nasa. And they have a fairly multinational team. Most of their team are local from Saudi. However, they have a player from Tanzania, a player from the Congo, two from Brazil, one from France, one from Palestine, and one from Algeria.
00:07:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's quite an interesting thought actually about foreign players in the league because I was thinking about what the main challenges are. um I think that one of the main challenges for the Saudi League will be in attracting the players for their women's teams. They do have a few foreign players. For example, Al-Qadzir's goalkeeper is Lindsay Harris. She moved over to, I think, are they in Riyadh in 2023? No, they're not in Riyadh. Where are they? I can't remember.
00:08:27
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um She's 31 and guess where she's from? She's from Texas in the United States. She played for the North Carolina Tar Heels the years before, just before Alessia Russo and Lotte Wubbenmoy.
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So yeah, that's ah quite an interesting link. Al Riad have three Spanish players. ah Al Itihad has an ex-Liverpool defender, Leanne Robe, who's English. She is 30 and she's also been playing in the league since last year.
00:09:01
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So yeah, there's quite a few um kind of foreign players in the league, but not a huge amount, which I do think is probably one of the challenges that they're going to get because I've mentioned this before, but I'm a huge believer in diversity and bringing players with different experiences from different leagues together is a huge strength. And that's how
Environmental and Infrastructure Factors
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you develop because you learn about different play styles. You learn about different characteristics of different teams and how different countries like to play.
00:09:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah You learn so much. So the stadiums are actually quite big and they're mostly shared with the men's teams. The largest by capacity is the Eastern Flames in Daman, which has a 26,000 capacity.
00:09:49
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And the smallest is Al-Hilal, which I know is in Riyadh, and that has a 10,000 capacity. Again, I do want to point out 10,000 is still pretty big when you compare it to some of the Scottish ones that we were talking about, which have a capacity of 300. So yeah, that's still quite big.
00:10:09
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Um, so there are quite a few challenges that the leagues in this area of the world have. For example, although football itself is popular, organized clubs are mainly confined to more affluent areas. Um, I would say as well, in some places, in some more traditional places, I think football kind of in any organized way capacity will be, um, will be even more in some of those affluent areas and more progressive areas. The huge expatriate population in places like the United Arab Emirates will also tend to dominate the football, I think. The United Arab Emirates is an is an odd one. Actually, that league was founded after the Saudi League. It was founded in 2023. Let me just refer to my notes here.
00:11:09
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Uh, yeah, it also has 10 clubs, relegation, Champions League through the AFC. And, you know, the United Arab Emirates is. very modern and they have a lot of cultural exchanges with the US, I think with the US college system, um which again I am a huge advocate of football players going to different countries and learning about different leagues. I think you get a huge amount from it. Anyway, other challenges, the weather, now having spent time over there you can
00:11:43
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really the weather is absolutely horrible in the summer so it can go up to 55 degrees celsius which is over 130 degrees fahrenheit yeah that is very very very hot um i've actually seen videos i'm not sure I mean, this is TikTok, so it must be true. I've actually seen videos of people cooking fried eggs so on kind of the hood of their car. Yeah, it's insane. And you walk everywhere's air conditioned, even bus stops in Dubai air conditioned, but then you walk outside and your glasses steam up from the humidity because it's also very humid.
00:12:20
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Now, ah that just makes daily life difficult, the weather, but it also especially makes sport, playing sport, ah even more difficult. Particularly if, for example, you are wearing a hijab, then you're covered up more. That's going to add more heat. It makes um nourishment and staying hydrated a lot more difficult. You've also got staying out of the sun. A lot of teams will practice at night.
00:12:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
And particularly for the more professional teams, I think they will require indoor spaces um with air conditioning just to keep out of that sun. And they'll need to be large enough to accommodate football. um And you can really see through that why a lot of the organised clubs are confined to affluent areas. Because, yeah, if you want to do it safely, then definitely stay out of the heat.
00:13:13
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Visibility and Opportunities for Women in Sports
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00:13:33
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So yeah, we've discussed how the kind of leagues, particularly in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates work, we've touched on a few of the challenges that but women's football in the region has. I wanted to also talk about how women's football can make a difference for society.
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For me, I think The difference that women's football can make can be summed up in two words. Visibility is the first one and voice is the second one.
00:14:09
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That doesn't make sense. I need to expand on that using your voice or developing a voice that you can use. um But starting off with visibility, I think with both of these things, you can look at it in kind of the context of thinking about small ways of growing visibility and also large ways and kind of small impacts, large impacts, um all building together to make development, to make progress.
00:14:36
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um starting with some of those small examples. So up until 2013 women were not actually permitted into stadiums in Bahrain. um This didn't change until the country hosted the 21st Gulf Cup of Nations ah Saudi Arabia didn't follow suit until the beginning of 2018 and just think about that because we talked about the Saudi League and we know that there were teams women's teams operating prior to this um but they weren't allowed to go and watch these games so they didn't have that exposure.
00:15:13
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um that exposure to kind of live football they didn't get to experience that, which I think, obviously, we inevitably will have impacted how they play the game how they saw the game.
00:15:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And I think that visibility, just the fact of women being in seen being seen in these spaces that are predominantly seen as male spaces or just being seen in kind of um a sports context, I think that is actually, it's a very small example of something that's actually a very big impact um because it changes how you how you think about the game. You think of it as a game that is for everybody.
00:15:55
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um that is for women as well as for men. And I'm reminded of an adage, you can be what you can see. I always want to say you can see what you can be, but no, it's you can be what you can see. And I think giving women that visibility at very small levels like that, just being allowed into the space, ah just being seen in the space, then it can be seen as a sport that is for everybody.
00:16:24
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And then there are much larger examples of it, for example, some are NASA, and I do apologize if I mispronounced her name. ah She's the general secretary of the Jordan
Women's Leadership and Media Representation
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Football Association.
00:16:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
she's the first woman to head up the Football Association for a Middle Eastern Nation, a two-time Olympic swimmer. She also spearheaded the organizing committee of that under 17 2016 World Cup in Jordan that we talked about. um So yeah, I think that's a much bigger example that also has quite a big impact of a woman being visible in a higher ah kind of, you know, a top job.
00:17:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
that's hugely influential for women who want to be involved in the sports world, being able to see someone who they can be because if they don't have any examples of that, then you have nothing to aspire to. So I think that's a huge, huge thing. There's also an article by Shireen Ahmed, who is a journalist. I think she's based in the US, but also does a lot of work in the Middle East. um I mean, I think she put it pretty brilliantly in this article. She said, in addition to creating jobs for women like Usher's food services, it actually creates the visibility of women in public and family spaces, which was severely lacking before and still remains to be a huge, huge challenge.
00:17:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I think that sums up pretty well to me that it's kind of those big things like creating jobs, making women active participants in in these venues, but also just the visibility of being there in itself. So it can be kind of anything, um you know, those big examples and those small examples.
00:18:22
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The second part of this that I thought about was the word voice. And I think this has many components. Again, I think it can be quite small moments and small examples. And also bigger moments and bigger examples. um One thing that I think about is lack of reporting from kind of Western mainstream media
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makes you believe that there's no interest almost. um I think
00:18:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
When the mainstream media is talking about football in the Middle East, you see it from a very male perspective, which I think is natural because until recently that has been kind of what has been available. um You haven't had the women in these spaces to kind of be available for that media attention.
00:19:13
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But I also think that it is reflective of perhaps a lack of those voices in the media. um So that's something that I really hope grows as the game grows in the Middle East. um So that's quite a big example. And I think some smaller examples could just be just being able to be part of a team. I think you really develop your voice and your sense of kind of who you are and what's important to you.
00:19:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
through working in a team. And I think young girls across the region having the opportunity to talk to other girls, to take part in a team, they'll learn kind of what their voice is and how they want to use it, how they want to influence other people. And I think hopefully that will then pay dividends in the end because you'll get more confidence in using your voice in those bigger arenas so you'll get more kind of women wanting to be in the media or talking about things that are important to them like football.
00:20:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
You also see off the back of things like the Moroccan team success in getting to the World Cup that brings more media attention And I think that will bring more kind of social programs, um as well as taking part in organizing committees, like we talked about, Samar Nasr, those are really big examples. And I think those are the things that kind of you will see coming forward a lot more of.
00:20:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
One thing that I think is a challenge in this arena in kind of ah get getting more powerful voices out of the region is that there isn't really a sustainable ecosystem around the big leagues and the big teams. So you've got the successful national team like the Moroccan team You've got kind of an established league in Saudi Arabia, but around those, it's those smaller pockets where you've got ah women and girls who are interested in football. Maybe they're in a local team, but that doesn't necessarily yet feed into the bigger picture. So it doesn't feed in.
00:21:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
um to that more professional league in that more professional environment, which is very reflective thinking about it of the state of play in England, because we talk a lot about grassroots football and the importance of grassroots teams. And again, I just think in bringing it back to voice, this is where you develop your confidence in using your voice. It's in working in team dynamics, it's in ah kind of big the big examples of like the massive games you learn so much about using your voice. um I did also just want to, I need to move on from this section, but highlight one ally, because we love allies of the women's game, Omar Al-Duri. He's a coach, a football commentator, and he's really pushing women's football in the UAE.
00:22:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah He's coached under 15s, under 19s and the senior women's teams of the UAE FA. He was born in London, he's an Arsenal fan but we won't hold that against him too much and he is really involved in trying to get those grassroots teams going across ah the UAE. He's also involved in ah the university level football, I think perhaps where um
Grassroots Initiatives and Community Support
00:22:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
a lot of those
00:22:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
networks with ah teams and university teams in the US s come in perhaps. And he also works a lot with semi-professional and also national teams. um His wife Maria Khan is the captain of the Pakistan women's national football team. ah So yeah, definitely some shout outs to them.
00:23:08
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00:23:32
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So the last topic that I wanted to talk about today in covering kind of Middle Eastern women's football is where do we go from here? We've talked about the state of play, where things are at the moment, how things have developed and they've developed quite quickly in recent years. A lot of the leagues that we've talked about are kind of formally established in 2022, 2023.
00:23:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
So things have moved quite quickly. ah The Saudi Arabia has a women's national team for the first time. ah They kicked off
Creating Spaces and Networks for Women's Football
00:24:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
in 2021.
00:24:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
And they have a German head coach, Monica Staub. So yeah, things have changed quite quickly. um We've also talked about some of the challenges that the leagues have in terms of things like weather um and also attracting foreign players.
00:24:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Where do we go from here? what else needs to What else needs to happen? So I think the most important thing, I touched on it in the last section, is that we need an ecosystem of women's sports really before, I think, a national team or a really professional league can be sustainable and really successful. If you think about um think about it, it's although it's that support. It's providing the support network.
00:24:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
around the team so that the players can a focus on football but also so that their access to facilities is a big one and we talk about the term women only spaces and that's not me calling that a term that's a term that's out there in the media So it's a physical space that offers women the space to essentially train, practice, just amongst other women. It's particularly important for this region of the world because obviously the women, if they're training in front of men, they will have to cover up more. Whereas if they are not training in front of men, then they can be more
00:25:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
free in terms of attire and what they're wearing um and you know women only gyms is not only a muslim thing ah it's also quite popular in the u.s and frankly i can understand it in a lot of ways um but yeah i think that's definitely that's definitely one thing that needs to that needs to move forward i think we need to have more women only spaces across the countries in the middle east and particularly I think there are probably pockets at the moment, and especially as we were talking about the more affluent areas, but I think in some of the less affluent areas, providing that space, um because obviously it's all very well and good having an interest, having a passion in football, but if you don't have a space to practice, if you don't even have you know a space to kick ball against a wall um in a comfortable way, then you're not going to develop.
00:26:43
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I think another thing that needs to move on, I think we need more expertise in the region. So you have at the moment, I think Monica Staub might be, I might be wrong with this, but I think she's definitely the most kind of high profile foreign coach in the region um as head of the Saudi Arabian national team. ah She actually moved over to Saudi because she was offering licensing courses for women and that was really successful so
Coaching Needs and League Visibility
00:27:13
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ah the Saudi FA asked her to stay on as head coach and again I think that also speaks to the success of kind of
00:27:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
going outside of your own comfort zone, your own region perhaps, and getting expertise from elsewhere from leagues that are more well established, the leagues that have been going on for a lot longer. um We are beginning to see it now. I talked about the different players in the Saudi league who are from other countries. Interestingly, they all do tend to be kind of a bit older. I think that will be really beneficial in bringing their experience and bringing their kind of technical know-how into the leaks. I think it would be great to see more of that. And I think as well in when we talked about kind of empowering these women and girls to use their voices, I think perhaps having those influences from outside of their world will just help with that. um And I think
00:28:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
We need to be talking about it more. It's really great. ah So you can watch the Saudi league I know under zone. I'm not sure you can watch the UAE league anywhere. um I need to check on that, but the Saudi league is under zone. So you can watch that. It's quite often under zone YouTube as well. um And I think just providing more access to people to be able to watch the league and kind of get to know these players, get to know these teams is a really important next step.
00:28:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I just wanted to say, I think the players deserve it. That's really what this episode was about. Um, is bringing some attention to teams in leagues that don't really get highlighted that much. And I think that's a shame because these are just women and girls who are passionate about football, just like the lion SSR or just like the US national team are. And, uh, yeah, they deserve to be celebrated.
00:29:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
And unfortunately, that is all I have time for today. um If you found this interesting, let us know and we'll talk some more about some of the Middle Eastern Leagues or Leagues in other parts of the world. um So thank you for listening and we'll look forward to welcoming you to the next episode of Beyond the Pitch.