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12. Pacing Yourself with Abby Nieten
16 Plays1 year ago
Inside a musty utility closet, dubbed the ‘pumping room’ for office mothers, Abby fought back tears.
She’d saved up three weeks of PTO to stay home with her new baby. She’d finagled a special paycheck schedule to continue covering her health insurance premiums. And she didn’t get a single day of paid maternity leave.
The “American Dream” felt anything but dreamy.
Abby Nieten, Founder of Shining Waters Editorial, knows what it’s like to feel pulled in every direction. Every working mom does. “I could be a good mother, or a good employee—but not both.”
Work made parenting more stressful. Parenting made work more stressful. Rinse and repeat as child number two and three eventually came along. Though she loved her colleagues, the tech sector was overbrimming with ‘false urgency.’ It felt forever frantic, as they were asked to do everything faster.
Software was designed to be ‘always on.’ Humans were not. Was this the pace she wanted for her life?
When her company downsized 40%, and her entire team was eliminated, Abby was shell shocked at the framing: “It’s not personal—it’s just math.” When did people become nothing more than the subtraction part of a math problem?
Six months into full-time freelancing, Abby is grateful to be off the hamster wheel. (She’s actually getting a lunch break!) With the right people in her corner, and trust in herself, she can’t wait to see what’s ahead.
For more inspiration, subscribe to Unbound Turnarounds on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts!
LINKS:
- Connect with Nicole
- Connect with Mallory
- Connect with Abby: https://shiningwaterseditorial.com/
- Dear Sons Blog Post: https://shiningwaterseditorial.com/letter-2/
- Relay Financial
- Wave: www.waveapps.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Unbound Turnarounds
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Unbound Turnarounds, a podcast all about the challenges women business owners think about constantly, but rarely voice. We're Nicole and Mallory, entrepreneurs, friends, and co-founders of Business Unbound, a community helping women alleviate the headaches, heartaches, and backaches. So work actually works for life. This is your safe space for the ups, downs, and the turnarounds.
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome back. Once again, you guys, it is Unbound Turnarounds here. And we're so excited for another guest today. Nicole, can you let everybody know who we have with us?
Meet Abby Neaton
00:00:42
Speaker
Yes. So we are going to be chatting with Abby Neaton today. And she is a great story because she only recently jumped into this crazy freelance life after 15 years in the corporate world. So this is already speaking to my heart.
00:00:57
Speaker
So she now owns Shining Waters editorial where she fills the roles of editor, proofreader, writer, content specialist for individuals and businesses to help put their best words forward. So when she's not crafting blogs and newsletters, websites, books, she is happily introverted homebody and a boy mom times three, which sounds insane.
00:01:20
Speaker
She finds calm in the chaos through reading and podcasts. She's listened to all of our so far. Big kudos there. Green tea and runs and walks in the great outdoors. So she is also a proud Midwesterner, back where I came from, and she enjoys soaking up the experiences of the season in her home state of Indiana.
00:01:40
Speaker
And that's where we actually have a lot of friends in common. We were just chatting about this. But one of those friends was actually featured in our earlier part of the season, Stephanie Jansen. So thanks for introducing us. And welcome to the pod, Abby. Hi, thanks for having me.
From Corporate to Freelance
00:01:55
Speaker
So just to remind our listeners, as we are wrapping up the end of season one, we are digging into origin stories from entrepreneurs about the whys behind starting their businesses and how those whys really keep coming into play throughout all the up downs and turnarounds. So we're really excited to share your perspective, Abby, because you spent a long time, like I said, in corporate life
00:02:20
Speaker
And until just recently decided to go out on your own. So we really want to talk about that kind of early stage decision and what drove you to make a change. So welcome to the dark side and we're excited to share with you. So just to get us started, tell us a bit more about what you did in corporate life. For those first 15 years, you had quite a variety of roles across, you know, writing and content strategy and social medias in a couple of industries, right?
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, so I actually started out as an editor out of college. I graduated in 2008, which you might remember was a little bit of a rough time to be trying to enter the workforce. And so it definitely took me a few months out of college to find a job. And my degree was in communications, there was an emphasis in journalism, but I really didn't know what I wanted to do exactly. I had done an internship at like a small local newspaper the summer before my senior year.
00:03:14
Speaker
absolutely hated it. So I basically, I didn't want to do that. Yeah, I knew I didn't want to do that. But otherwise, I was kind of open to, you know, what's out there in the writing and editing world. And I happened upon this really kind of unique company that was producing like textbooks and online learning materials for adult learners, it was basically nurses who were trying to further their education, but like outside of a traditional school environment. Oh, interesting. And so I landed a job as an editor there. But
00:03:40
Speaker
There were a few of us and we edited the textbooks and then we edited or we actually helped create some of the online courses that went alongside the textbooks. Then we were also like just the company editorial board, like the marketing team would send some stuff through us to edit as well. Then at one point, I joined what they were calling the Social Media Task Force, which was basically like the marketing team had just recruited people from all over the company to write blog posts and promote them on Twitter and Facebook.
00:04:08
Speaker
Okay. That was the time we were in. But that was really my first experience with content marketing side of things. And so yeah, I was doing kind of a variety of things in the editorial world. And I was there actually for seven years. And toward the end, the company was struggling. There was like, we had to take pay cuts at one point. And there was just like the writing was kind of on the wall that this was going to go south. And so everybody was jumping ship. Like it was a very strange time. It was kind of sad because I was one of the last ones from my department
00:04:36
Speaker
to move on because it just took me a long time. I think I job searched for about eight months before I found something and the company did end up going under shortly after I left. But one thing that did happen there that guided the next step of my career was that I think it was maybe a year or two before I left that company, the leaders had started letting my department pilot a work from home program.
00:04:59
Speaker
So it started out that we were just allowed to work from home one day a week. But then towards the end and when things were getting a little hairy, we only had to go into the office one day a week. So it kind of flipped to where we were mostly working from home in the
Juggling Work and Motherhood
00:05:14
Speaker
end.
00:05:14
Speaker
I was a big fan of the work from home. I'm an introvert and I'm a homebody anyway. But then I had become a mom just about a year before I left there. I had realized that eliminating that commute and just there was a little bit more flexibility, that definitely was helping manage my mom life a little bit. That led to me my next step. When I was job searching, I was specifically seeking out companies that had some remote work option.
00:05:44
Speaker
Which it wasn't as common, I feel like, back then. I was going to say, yeah, this was not as easy to find. No. But somehow I happened upon one in Indianapolis, like it had roots in Indianapolis, which was where I lived. They were remote first at the time that I joined. And so it was a tech company. So there was a decent tech scene forming, I think, in Indianapolis. I really was unaware of it until I was like doing this job search. And I was like, oh, this is the type of company that lets you work from home. Yes.
00:06:11
Speaker
So some stars aligned and I got a job there as a content writer on the marketing team. Starting out, I was just managing the blog. I was doing most of the writing and a lot of the CMS tasks that went alongside that. But then over time, I moved up and I was managing a small content team. Then eventually, I was more involved in the strategy of things and serving as our editor-in-chief of all the content we were producing. I was there for a pretty long time. I was there for about eight years.
00:06:38
Speaker
up until just about six months ago. Yeah, okay. And so when you were looking for a new job, you wanted something remote, tech was a new industry. Did you have any kind of reservations about switching from something that sounded a bit more traditional, you know, textbooks?
00:06:57
Speaker
to this is a completely different industry. I really didn't. Like I just I liked to write and I liked the editorial world. And so I was just open to what existed out there that I could still do those things that I enjoyed. Gotcha. OK, so you said a lot of things where I was really connecting to you, especially when you got to the part about being a mom and working from home. And that was also a big game changer for me and my family.
00:07:25
Speaker
But I want to know how it felt in that corporate world, even if you were working from home. What was that experience like as a corporate working mom as your family was growing? Yeah, that was really tough. I think really early on I recognized like how much the corporate world was kind of adding to the challenge of parenting. If I think about even when I was pregnant with my very first son, which was like in 2013, 2014, and I was just trying to figure out like what is a maternity leave situation going to look
00:07:55
Speaker
Like this was when I was still working for that educational company and they didn't offer any kind of paid maternity leave. And I also didn't have short term disability coverage because I was not aware that that was like a thing that would help you still get some percentage of your pay when you were on some kind of postpartum leave. So there was nothing. And I had worked for the company for about five or six years at that point. And so I was able to save up three weeks of PTO that I could use for my leave. But I ended up this.
00:08:23
Speaker
It was awful. It was really awful. Not a mother, but I hate this. So I ended up taking sick off six weeks, but what
Pandemic Pressures
00:08:29
Speaker
I did was I was also carrying the insurance for my family. And so I worked with HR to like slot my PTO every other week during the six week period so that I would still have a paycheck to cover those insurance premiums. So it's just insane.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah. And so, and then of course, you know, I have the baby and I'll just be honest, like my transition into motherhood was not smooth sailing whatsoever. I was just like very shell shocked. Like I brought home this newborn and I was just like, what have I done to my wife? Who allowed me to take this home? Like what are they thinking?
00:09:01
Speaker
Exactly like my body was just a mess and I was so emotional like I just did not know I mean I think probably a lot of moms experience what I was experiencing and just like don't talk about it But I know there's some that maybe it was like very natural, but it was not natural to me I couldn't find like any Sort of groove with the breastfeeding either and so there was just a lot of challenges and then I'm sitting here with this like looming thing of like Oh, I gotta go back to work in a few weeks and I just like I don't have my act together as a mom
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. How am I going to make this work? We should have it. We could have an entire episode on the problem. Yeah. Yeah. With all of that. Yeah. So that was, was just the beginning. And then when I did end up going back to work, so I was still working in the office. I honestly can't remember at that point how many days a week I was going into office, but I do know I remember I was because
00:09:44
Speaker
there was no real place for pumping. And so I was already struggling with the breastfeeding. It's a whole other story of the pressure I was putting on myself to do that. But I had to go into this musty utility closet that was just lined with metal shelves of computer equipment. And there were just some dirty chairs that I would push two chairs together so I could sit on one and put my pump on the other one.
00:10:08
Speaker
the whole thing just made me so anxious. And that was just like in my first small bit of experience with being a mom in the corporate world. I was very much like, I don't know about this. But then of course I have three kids now. No, not at all.
00:10:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah, selective memory. I guess I decided to have two more kids. Well, you got out of that closet. And I think that's, that's the big win here. Yeah, yeah. So then my other job, I worked from home. So at least that was better that I didn't have to worry about some of those things, because I was working from home at that point. But the thing that we started running into as we had more kids was just, you know, they're getting older, they're in school, or they're in daycare, you know, there's a lot of scheduling things like,
00:10:46
Speaker
small children pick up every possible sickness that's on the planet and so they're just like constantly people are home or sick or you got to go to the doctor and it's like well the only available appointment is 11 a.m or you know like right in the middle of the day like it's all these just
Corporate Culture and Well-being
00:11:01
Speaker
scheduling things and even now like my oldest two are in elementary school and the elementary school their hours are 7 40 a.m to 2 10 p.m so like that doesn't align with the nine to five
00:11:11
Speaker
Or how many days off do they have? Yeah, there's all the school breaks, all the seasonal breaks and trying to figure that out. And then of course, let's not forget we had this pandemic come along where they were home all the time. All the time.
00:11:26
Speaker
And my husband, so he works in field services, so he does not have a job that he can do from home. And during the pandemic, they really didn't shut down other than like that infamous like flat liquor of those couple weeks and whatever that was, April 2020. Yeah, like they really just keep rolling because yeah, because
00:11:41
Speaker
they have their own work trucks they work outside a lot of time like they just kept rolling so it really fell on me to deal with just like the gymnastics of like what's the schedule this week so my oldest was in kindergarten at the beginning of the pandemic then he was in first grade and kindergarten they ended the school year with like the last two months were all virtual and then first grade our district
00:11:59
Speaker
He was home most of the time. Like they started out all virtual. Then they went to some kind of hybrid where it was like, if your last name is A through L, you come on red days. And it's like M through Z, you're on blue days. And they did that for a little while. Then they went back to all virtual. And then, you know, they were doing like the contact tracing. So it was like, you could get sent home for two weeks out of nowhere because you were like in close contact. And so it was just a lot of gymnastics going on, trying to manage that.
00:12:22
Speaker
Abby, I just I feel like I'm witnessing you so hard. I'm sorry. I just have to jump in here because it's like we had such similar experiences. Everything you just said is like plus one for me. And I always have said since the pandemic, I think whatever stage of life people were in, if they're single, if they were a marriage without kids or they had older kids, like there were their own challenges. Right. But I feel like the challenges you and I had were so similar and it was
00:12:49
Speaker
capital hard, H-A-R-D capital hard. And so I just want to witness you and say, I feel you and I understand everything that you just shared. So thank you for, you know, reliving that with us. Yeah. Thank you. Well, and the other thing too is just with the job. So I was still working.
00:13:05
Speaker
Full time while the kids were home all the time and I mean the good thing I guess was that I was already used to working from home because it was had been a remote first company had been there for several years. But the bad part was like because of that there weren't like slowdowns because we were trying to figure it out and also.
00:13:20
Speaker
We were selling software that like helps people digitize their business. So all of a sudden there was like tons of companies had the urgency to do that over the pandemic. So it was very busy.
The Layoff and New Beginnings
00:13:28
Speaker
And I was surrounded by, I mean, really caring people and people understood. Many of them were dealing with similar things of like kids all of a sudden at home, we're all in chaos. I don't know if guilt's the right word, but they were still just this feeling of like, I'm not being a good mom and I'm not being a good employee because everything needs my attention at once.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yes. So that second job, you had gone from the musty closet to a different experience by the time you had your second child, right? So you had your second child pre-pandemic. So tell me, was that experience of having a second child at a different company
00:14:00
Speaker
better, worse, just different because you were working from home. Like that had to make some things easier. Yeah. But like you said, you've still got that responsibility of being like, I don't know that I'm being good enough at either of these. Yeah, it was a little bit easier. Like all of my pregnancies, I had a lot of nausea for like the first 16 weeks. And I remember with my first one, I would like be in the office just like feeling terrible. So at least with the second and the third, I felt terrible at home, you know, and I could
00:14:27
Speaker
like get up and try to like you know go get random snacks to not feel terrible but the maternity leave situation with my second was better but there also still wasn't like a company provided paid leave but this time I did have a short-term disability so I at least had that and I think I was able to use like a week of PTO it before the short term would kick in
00:14:46
Speaker
And I think they did have some sort of like if you want to come back part time for like a two week period before you go jump back in full time, you can transition back in basically. So there were a couple of things that made that better. Yeah. The second time around. OK.
00:15:00
Speaker
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00:15:20
Speaker
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00:15:51
Speaker
So I feel like by the time you got to child number two, eventually child number three, you had experienced some of this burnout, probably purely because you didn't feel like you were enough of all the things at once. Is that an accurate portrayal of how you're feeling? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there was just so much needing my attention. Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
There was so much needing your attention, right? So in your mind, if you can remember back then, what was kind of that thought process of like the kind of person you wanted to be at work and the kind of person you wanted to be as a mom? How were those or were they not working? What was going well? And what were you just like, I just don't think this is working.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's a hard question. I feel like it wasn't working very well. I mean, I could compartmentalize a little bit. So I feel like at work, eventually I was a leader at work. And so I was leading a team and like, I could be there for my team and I could relate to some of the struggles they were having and things like that.
00:16:51
Speaker
I think where it started to be a struggle at home is kids would get home and I felt like I needed to focus or I have a meeting, but you're over here disrupting. Then I felt like I was being a mean mom because I had to be like, can you please go watch the show or go do your homework while I can just finish this meeting or I have to pause the meeting and be like, sorry, got to go deal with this. So there was that same just push and pull of trying to do it all and I get frustrated if I'm like, there's all the disruptions and that's just like life, so I got to deal with it.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So we've talked before about, not in this episode, but Nicole and I, and I know this came up with your questionnaire before the show, Abby. So the sense of like a false, it's a culture of a false urgency that we can see in corporate. I won't say it's solely corporate. I say we can do it to ourselves as entrepreneurs. Absolutely.
00:17:44
Speaker
big time. But we maybe have a little more control over managing that and reeling that back in. But the sense of like false urgency, like the world is going to burn down if I don't answer this one Slack message or answer this email at nine o'clock at night. Most of our jobs, it's not life and death, I would assume. But what was that like? Did you have that feeling in your corporate world? And how do you think over time that adds to that burnout or kind of weighs on employees on a day to day basis?
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I definitely experienced that, especially at the tech company. I think tech is just such a fast pace and I'll say frantic environment. I mean, like you're saying, we can do it to ourselves too, but I feel like in some ways we've just normalized it. Instead of pushing back on some absurd deadline, we're just like, we're going to make this work. We just push on through and start trying to figure out what is a better solution.
00:18:38
Speaker
And I think especially like these last couple of years, if you just think about all of the messaging we're getting of like, do more with less and like all the AI and chat GPT, like it's all about like doing everything faster. We're just being conditioned to think that's the way to do it faster. And we don't stop to think like, is this pace what I actually want for my life?
00:18:56
Speaker
Right. And it definitely leads to the burnout. I was in so many situations where multiple employees were like working extra hours at night or just odd times to try to like get something across the finish line or just to like keep up with the normal stuff. I mean that should not be the norm. You build on healthy habits
Launching Shining Waters Editorial
00:19:12
Speaker
like and yeah definitely leads to burnout. Yes, 100%. That is also what I experienced.
00:19:18
Speaker
in tech, I think just because it also attracts those type of people a lot of the time. And I'm one of them, which is why I also bring that sense of false urgency to my own businesses often. But it does just kind of put all of those like uber driven people in a building and then has them set deadlines. And you're like, let's watch what happens. Let's also someone brought in their sleeping bag. Great.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yes, this is what we want. But I think you said something really important there, which is asking yourself, is this the pace that I want for my life? Because that, I think, was one of the biggest things to change for me when I left Tech and I moved to the middle of Montana. And my pace of life now is insanely different.
00:20:08
Speaker
There is enough time for whatever I need to actually get done today. It made it always feel like that, but I know that's true, right? My deadlines are mine and I can move them if I need to. That's fine too. Yeah. And I think sometimes you don't even realize until it's gone, like,
00:20:25
Speaker
I think, like, even I think, Mallory, you mentioned Slack. Like, I didn't realize how much Slack felt like an always on thing and how I felt like some pressure to give a timely response. And once that was eliminated, I was like, oh, Slack is like not part of my daily frenzy. Yes. I was like, wow, this feels so different that I don't just feel like I'm because it was on my phone, it was on my computer. And yeah, I just felt like there was always a Slack message coming in. It was frantic.
00:20:51
Speaker
Well, and you mentioned the phrase always on, which is something that we talked about in tech. Like that's a tech phrase for us that means like we're making software that is always working.
00:21:02
Speaker
However, it then gets translated to, we will also make employees who feel like they are always working by giving them all these tools that are constantly on. And it's like, I don't think I want to be constantly on anymore. I don't want to. And I think that's good. If people are in that world and they're feeling like it's too much, it probably is too much, you guys. That's okay. It's okay to say that.
00:21:29
Speaker
So should we talk about how you ended up exiting the corporate world? We have to. Sorry, it's not a question. We have to. I know, we have to. Let's hear it, Abby. What's the story? OK, well, I am part of this club that is formed in 2023, which is the Tech Layoff Club. And actually, I think the most recent number I saw is like 253,000 people. More than that, I think, have been laid off by a tech company this year alone.
00:21:54
Speaker
So yeah, I'm one of those people in May of this year, the company I was working for laid off 40% of the company. That included almost everyone in my function of the business, which was content and brand.
00:22:06
Speaker
Wow. And how was that communicated?
Freelancing Journey
00:22:11
Speaker
Did you kind of see that coming? Was that something that you had ever considered might happen? You know, it might be naive, but I was a little shocked. I knew what was happening in the tech world. I knew this was the thing that was happening. And actually, my company had done a small round of layoffs in December of 2022, but they had messaged it as, you know, we just over hired in sales. And so it was only sales people
00:22:35
Speaker
and it was not nearly 40 percent of the company. Then just some other things that went on in the first part of this year with trips and things that happened, I just assumed we were doing okay. I know you shouldn't assume, but yeah. I was a little bit shocked, mostly I think too because I had been at that company for eight years, I had seen us weather other storms. I knew there were ups and downs in the business and I just didn't think after spending eight years with this company that it would come crashing down in such a dramatic fashion.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, tell me, so I've also had a lot of people in my network experience similar layoffs. Like you said, it's very common in tech right now. But I think it speaks to you a little bit of this false security as it turns out that a lot of times people don't go into business for themselves because they feel like that is risky, right? And that there's no security in that.
00:23:29
Speaker
versus a corporate job where you're getting a consistent paycheck and you have PTO and these things that feel and look very secure. But then you might end up in a layoff situation that really flips that view. So is that something that happened to you where you were like, oh, I thought this was the responsible low risk path and now, oh, maybe it's not.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. So back when I was at that first company and I was trying to leave and I was struggling, it took eight months, like I'd mentioned before, I do remember somebody mentioning freelancing to me at that time and I definitely resisted. I was like, oh, that is too risky, not my path. And so, yeah, I definitely.
00:24:14
Speaker
thought that the corporate W2 job was the more secure route. But it feels silly now because I think the other thing that I was resisting about freelancing way back then was like, oh, that feels hard. But it's all hard. And even now, if you spend any amount of time on LinkedIn, there are posts all over the place about people who got laid off six months ago, eight months ago, even a year ago, and still have not found another job after applying for thousands of jobs, doing dozens of interviews. So nothing's a guarantee, you know what I mean?
00:24:43
Speaker
And so yeah, I definitely had a kind of a false sense of security there. And I think something else I related to this that just sticks in my mind is like a post-layoff conversation I had where someone said to me, it's not personal, it's just math, like as if that was supposed to have make me feel better. And that was kind of the moment where I was just like, this is just not for me anymore. I don't really want to be somewhere where I am like,
00:25:08
Speaker
Just the subtraction part of a math problem. But I think that's what you get in corporate a lot of the time. It's just often the reality that your humanity is not fully recognized. And I mean, that just means you're on a lot, shake your ground than you think.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. Talk to me about what that emotionally was like because to me, like, you know, you get to know everyone that you're working with and you are emotionally invested in these people and they're your friends. And then not only are you going through a professional crisis suddenly that you didn't expect,
00:25:42
Speaker
40% of the people you know are going through the same thing. So I feel like you did like a mini COVID experiment, again, to just be like, oh, we're all in crisis now together. Okay. Yeah, for sure. What is that like amongst your network? Like, what were the conversations like?
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it was really tough. That was probably the hardest part was like suddenly all of these working relationships. And a lot of us had really good relationships that were working together. They just like abruptly ended. And it doesn't mean like the actual relationship has to end, but it's like, yeah, you form these really good working relationships and people that you work really well together and you've produced all this great work together. And so that was definitely the hardest part. There was a little bit of like a rallying, like almost immediately the marketing team, we were all pretty close and most of us got cut for the marketing team.
00:26:30
Speaker
pretty immediately we created like our own little separate slack channel so that we could all keep supporting each other through slack and just venting you know some of that but then also as time went on like helping each other in the job search and different things like that so that was good but yeah i mean you definitely feel in crisis there's just like a whole spectrum of emotions like it's your ear mad i mean there's some anger for sure the sadness like i talk about you know just this abrupt end of these relationships there's also like
00:26:57
Speaker
this panic that kind of goes on where you're like, oh, I got to like try to save anything that might possibly help me in my job search before my access gets cut off to everything. And then there's, of course, there's just like stress about the future. Like what does my next step look like and how am I going to get there? Which is where I want to go next. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:16
Speaker
So I feel like we can acknowledge that part of the story, we can be grateful for it, and thank you for your lessons. And now let's move on to shinier, I'm going to use the word shinier for your company name, shinier pastures.
Defining the Niche
00:27:31
Speaker
So Nicole had found your blog post that you wrote to your sons about starting your company.
00:27:38
Speaker
Nicole, we can link it in the show notes. But can you give us the synopsis of kind of what that was? Because I loved how it talked about how you kind of already had started building the company even before the layoff happened. So give our listeners a little short snippet of what that blog post was about, which leads into how you started being a freelancer.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, I started a blog, which I only have two posts so far. So that just tells you how that's going. But I decided to make the blog like letters to my son so I could still talk about businessy things, but like tell them all about what I'm trying to do. So yeah, I wrote a blog post that was just about sort of the origin of my company and talking about how, yeah, it was something I'd been thinking about for a couple of years, but then it wasn't until the layoff happened that I kind of was like, I think this is the sign that I should, you know, follow this desire. Yeah.
00:28:28
Speaker
But now you already had some things in place. So what had you already built? You almost didn't have to start from the ground. Like you started at maybe a top of a hill because you had some foundation already in place, right? Yeah, exactly. So this is where the third child comes into play that we haven't talked about yet. It was basically like in that late 2020 timeframe. That's when I found out I was pregnant with a third. And that was when we were in the pandemic and all of the, you know,
00:28:53
Speaker
Madness that was happening with that that was when I really started thinking like I was thinking about bringing a third child into the like chaos We were already in and I was just like I don't think this is gonna work for my life Like I don't think adding a third child in all of the things we're already dealing with I don't think I can do this anymore and so that was when I started really considering the idea of freelancing and I was like
00:29:12
Speaker
I want just something that I have more control over and that I can still work because my husband and I have always been kind of a two income household where we're really relying on both of our incomes to make ends meet. And so, and I enjoy work. And so I knew I still wanted to work and need it to work really. And so I thought freelancing might be this way that I can have both worlds of being there for my kids, but then also contributing financially to our household. And so it was basically like the majority of 2021, I just started educating myself on like,
00:29:41
Speaker
What does it even mean to be a freelancer and to start my own business? And so I was listening to a ton of podcasts, like reading books. I attended a couple of webinars and I also like reached out to, I think it was at least one person that I knew was doing this and was just kind of like, can I do this? What are you doing? You want to like tell me how this is working for you? And then, so I had my son in August of 2021. And this time, this is the first time I had actually a paid 12 week maternity leave, which felt like glorious.
00:30:08
Speaker
And so I used kind of like that free brain space where I wasn't thinking about work to lay some of the foundation because I had already, I basically, as I was like reading books and listening to these podcasts, I just started this Google doc. So I had like a three page checklist in a Google doc of like, every time I heard something, I was like, that's probably something I should do to start a business. I just like added it to this checklist. And so I just went, you know, started checking things off. And so yeah, now I want to see this checklist. I know.
00:30:34
Speaker
Well, yeah, during my maternity leave is when I really was like, okay, I'm going to like actually register in LLC. There was a podcast I listened to that like laid out how to write a business plan. And I'm kind of a very perfectionistic, meticulous person. So I was like, I got to have the business plan. So I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing and how I'm going to do it. So I wrote up a business plan. And then I also was like, I know a lot of people are like, you don't need a website at first, you don't need, but I was like, I need to look professional. I just want to look like I know what I'm doing, even if I don't really feel like I know what I'm doing.
00:31:04
Speaker
So one of my husband's friends was a graphic designer, and so I had her help me do some branding and website things. And so I did all of that while I was on maternity leave, partially because I had the time, which I normally would not
Balancing Life and Work
00:31:15
Speaker
have. But I just kind of knew as soon as I go back to work, I mean, I already knew the frenzy that work was. And I was like, I just know I'm not going to have the time to lay this foundation. And if I ever want this to really happen, I'm going to do it now. That's pretty much what happened. I went back to work. 2022 was basically like this whole blur.
00:31:31
Speaker
It was a couple things. It was like, number one, I felt like I couldn't broadcast what I wanted to do because it was like, I still was committed to my full-time job. And so I felt like I can't just like put this everywhere that this is what I'm trying to do. But then it kind of turns out it's pretty hard to like be successful business if no one knows what you're doing.
00:31:48
Speaker
So that that was one thing that made it hard and then it yeah it just was like my full plan was to kind of do it as like a side hustle while I saw my full-time job so that there wasn't as much pressure I could just kind of like test the waters but then it was like I had this full-time demanding job as we've already been talking about and I had an infant that I was trying to you know my husband and I were suddenly outnumbered by kids
00:32:08
Speaker
It just was like very hard to have a side hustle on top of all the other things I was trying to manage. And so, yeah, it just didn't really come to fruition until, yeah, when the layoff happened, I was kind of like, okay, I laid all that foundation, just didn't have time. But now I do, I feel like this is probably a sign. And of course, I talked to my husband and he was kind of apprehensive, but he also was supportive and was like,
00:32:29
Speaker
Let's try it. Yeah. So I'm interested in that conversation because he has, it sounds like always had a different type of job than you have, but he's also seen you work for, you know, at this point a year and a half on kind of building this foundation. And I'm guessing you didn't keep it a secret from him probably.
00:32:50
Speaker
So he's kind of seen you laying this foundation, and then now you're saying, you know what, maybe I should do something with that idea that I had. And what was that conversation like? Because like you said, you're a two-income household, and you're now outnumbered by small people, and you know, ugh.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't keep it a secret from him, but I do think he kind of thought it was like, is this a real thing you're doing? Or you just have a hobby over here that you're like sometimes working on, you know? So I think when I was like, no, it's like a real thing. Like, I think I can make this a real business. He was like, are we sure?
00:33:26
Speaker
The conversation was like me giving him all these justifications of how I can make it work. And at one point he was just like, Abby, I'm not worried about you. Like he's like, I know you're like a hard worker. You can figure this out. The financial side's a little bit of a struggle only because we were at the point of like, we wanted to buy a new house, like a bigger house for all these kids. And we knew that that goal would probably have to take it back seat until I figured out, you know, how sustainable this business was and all that. But yeah, he's been pretty supportive overall.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, okay. That makes sense. And I think that's an interesting thing about buying the house too, because either way you were going to be laid off and you were going to have some time between either finding a new job or creating your new job, right? And you were spending that time building this business versus looking for jobs.
00:34:14
Speaker
But either way, you weren't going to be immediately employed. So that was a really interesting choice, I think, to be like, you know what? And I don't know that you would have done it had you not had that foundation laid previously to make it feel a little bit easier. Exactly. I'm not sure I would have either.
00:34:33
Speaker
And there was like a small bit of severance, like a couple months. And so that helped too, of just knowing that like, okay, there's a couple months where we can get started on this and see if I can actually get clients and things like that, where- Little breathing room. Yeah, a small bit of breathing room was helpful too, I think.
00:34:48
Speaker
Okay, so we're now into the journey. You've come to the other side. How has it been going? You're six months in. Tell us the ups and the downs, please. We like the downs too. Of this beginning, tell us. Yeah, it's definitely been a journey. I will say like one of the highs I'm feeling is I do feel pretty proud that I have been able to get clients and you know, I haven't hit my income goals yet, but I have had steady money coming in since August.
00:35:16
Speaker
I mean, even just like looking out in the world right now, there's so many people that are talking about how this has been a really rough year. Other freelancers are saying it's been one of their slowest years, like the economy has not been great. We all know that. And so I feel good about what I have managed to accomplish. Like I did get clients, I have been bringing in money at a steady pace, like even in less than ideal circumstances, like that feels good. I have one client who gives me work regularly, like every week I have some stuff to do from them. So that helps.
00:35:42
Speaker
I have a couple of clients that I've done multiple projects for, so they're kind of repeat clients. And then there's been a couple of just one-off things. And then I have talked to a couple of people, new clients, about things for next year already. And so that all feels pretty positive to me. And then I think the other positive is I do feel more free than I have in years. I mean, over the summer for sure, because I got laid off about a week before my
Community and Support Networks
00:36:04
Speaker
kids were out of school for summer. And so I had a way more time with my kids than I would have had over the summer. We were like,
00:36:11
Speaker
Just riding bikes, walking to every park within any distance. You know, we spent so much time outside and just like getting the exercise. So that was really great. And then I think even just now I try if the weather allows, which we're getting into the really crummy weather times, but to like get outside and do a runner walk, just like midday things I didn't have time for before.
00:36:29
Speaker
And the other thing is like I'm actually eating lunch. Like I swear before there would be times where I was just like throwing something in my mouth into like a two minute window between meetings or just like so stressed about getting something finished. I just fully skipped eating for the day. So I feel like there's much more balance if that's the word we want to use of just like healthier habits, I would say. Yes, we want to use the word lunch as often as possible. That is we are encouraging it.
00:36:56
Speaker
Yes. How have those positives, we are going to get into the hard parts, like I asked, but how have the positives you've just shared of you getting exercise and sunlight and spending more time with the family and eating, how has it affected the whole household?
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's true. Like I feel a little bit more connected to my kids. I mean, it's still stressful starting a business. So there's definitely still times where I feel like not a ton in the tank, you know, and the fuse is a little shorter, but I think those are fewer and more far between. That's the right phrase than they used to be. And so plus I just think there has been so many times, even just in these six months, like for instance, the kids were out of school for the summer and I was just able to be there, you know, where
00:37:36
Speaker
that they're out of school for all these breaks. We're getting ready to come up on winter break. And it's like, there's not a stress of like, what am I going to do with these kids for all of these days at their home?
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, we've already talked about sick children. I had one yesterday, you have Wednesday and it's just, it's already stressful when your kid is sick. You don't always know how to help them or if you need to take them to doctor or not, but now you don't have to be like, oh, you, I have enough sick days and am I taking a sick day? Or is my partner taking a sick day? Like you just know you have the flexibility. One of you has the flexibility to just be able to be home with them and whatever they need and shift things around. And what a gift, honestly.
00:38:12
Speaker
And that has to have also changed kind of that guilt factor, right? Of not being a good enough mom or a good enough employee. Like that to me, like guilt is such a weight in many ways. So how have you felt about that? Like, is that still something that you find on your mind as much now?
00:38:35
Speaker
No, it's definitely not there as much. Yeah. I feel like my schedule is more open to being a little, you know, tick. My oldest has braces right now. So like taking him to the orthodontist when he gets out of school and not feeling like there were a lot of meetings, I'll just say, and like trying to figure out, do I need to move this meeting? But there's like 14 people in the meeting and nobody, we have no other window of time where all 14 people are available. You know, like that stuff was really stressful before. And of course you can miss a meeting, but then there's another thing to catch up on. You know, that type of stuff was always a struggle. And so yeah, it feels a lot better now where it's just like,
00:39:05
Speaker
Dealing with the things I need to do without my house and on my own time and and there's not a lot of things I'm trying to like work around. Yeah. Well, and so a lot of yeah, a lot of that, you know, ability to be more flexible is about managing your time the way that you want to. Yeah. And so how have you actually like structured your days?
00:39:26
Speaker
in these first six months to kind of juggle everything. Like, do you have a lot of structure to it? Or are you more like, you know what? I can work on this whenever I have a minute. Yeah, there's some structure. So one of the things that my husband and I decided when the layoff happened was that we were gonna pull our two-year-old back to part-time childcare instead of full-time. So he only goes three days a week right now instead of five. And so he's home with me all day on Thursdays and Fridays. So those days are definitely looser because, you know, toddlers are wild.
00:39:54
Speaker
never know what to do yet. So I try to front load my work week as much as I can, because I have the most focused time I have is on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays when everybody's at school or you know, childcare. And then I do most of my work during those days. And then on the days my two year old with me, he does still take a decent nap. And so most of my work will happen like in that nap window is there's things I need to do.
00:40:13
Speaker
Okay. I think you should take a nap during that window too, but that's just, that's just me. I don't know. We were getting lunch and naps now. You guys, that is the tagline for freelance. It's just lunch and naps. Okay. Abby. So six months. I mean, it can't all be easy. No. What are some of the downs? What are your open to sharing that has been a little bit of a struggle?
00:40:37
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. So I think just the getting clients, I mean, it's ongoing. I'm not making enough money with what I've been doing so far where I can just like cruise for now. So I basically have like a slew of tactics that I run through weekly, trying to find new clients. And of course that can be exhausting. And a lot of times it's fruitless. So it's kind of discouraging. You know, it's like you send out cold outreach or you're looking at all these job boards who want to pay you $10 an hour or whatever it is.
00:40:59
Speaker
So that stuff can be pretty discouraging. And then I think the other thing for me that has been kind of a struggle has been like nailing down my target audience and like my messaging kind of like what am I actually offering and who am I offering it for? Because I tried at first to really niche down
00:41:17
Speaker
And I was like, I'm an editor for authors and literary organizations. That was the small niche that I was trying to be in. But then it was like, after a while, I felt kind of pigeonholed. I would see a project or something on a job board that seemed interesting that I might like, but I'd be like, well, I probably shouldn't pursue that because that's not in this small niche that I carved out for myself. And then, of course, that started to feel silly because it was like, I'm not really finding very many clients in this niche. So why am I turning down things or not pursuing things that are outside
Reflections and Future Growth
00:41:47
Speaker
of it?
00:41:47
Speaker
It kind of boils down to, I just want to work with good people who are purpose-driven businesses who want to help humans. They're producing content, trying to meaningfully serve other people. And that's kind of wide for now. But I was trying to be way too narrow, I think, originally. And I just need to widen that net. And then the other thing is editing is still part of what I do. But I also have a lot of experience with writing and just content development. And I've done some freelance projects in those areas as well. And so I think I'm
00:42:15
Speaker
just really being too narrow here. And so I've definitely widened it out, trying to just figure out where do I most excel? And like, where can I bring the most value? And just, it's all kind of an experiment still, which for me is a little bit of a struggle just because I'm like one of these people that want it to be all like wrapped up in a nice little box. And it's just like, I think this is probably really normal for someone who's just starting out as an entrepreneur. But for me, I just like wanted to have it all already figured out before I even started. It's not possible because you don't know what you don't know. Right. Yeah.
00:42:43
Speaker
Let's talk about that niching down concept. And I'm curious what your experience was, too, in the beginning. Maybe it was a little different. But I also got that advice to niche down originally. But I, for the life of me, couldn't do it. I couldn't niche down. I was working with women entrepreneurs in every industry. And so my dream client was just supporting a woman entrepreneur or a woman freelancer, not in a specific industry.
00:43:13
Speaker
despite having that guidance and advice. I never did, I never did niche down. So I think it's like one of those shoulds and maybe it's that advice that's like, oh, you're starting a business, you should do this. And maybe it will never be your thing, right? So you're kind of finding your way to see if that advice actually is for you or not. Yeah. Cause it might not be. Well, and I think the other thing I was running into too is like a lot of
00:43:36
Speaker
These literary companies, they're smaller and like they didn't need my help or they didn't have the budget for it. It's kind of like, OK, well, your niche can't be something that no one's going to pay you for because that's not going to build a sustainable business. So well, and so you had this network, too. And I'm curious if you were niching out of your network.
00:43:55
Speaker
Right? Yeah. Versus, okay, I just left this tech job and these are all the people that I know and they're going to different companies and I'm niching myself out of working with them because they're not going to a literary agency. You know, like, ugh. Yeah. So, you know, how is your approach to kind of gathering clients and just plain putting the word out that you're doing this?
00:44:20
Speaker
with your network, how have you come to terms with, you know, okay, well, probably my former team is not going to a literary agency. Yeah. But they might need some tech blogs and your girl can do it. Yeah. I mean, I still have kind of an aversion to just like the B2B tech sass life. I have been trying to avoid that purposely because I'm just like, I know for sure I'm on the outside of it. If as a freelancer and I don't have to be as much in that frenzy, but
00:44:45
Speaker
There's still I think you kind of can get caught up in it, even if you're like working for a team that's on that wheel. So I have still kind of stayed away from that. But I have found like, I've gotten some projects from people even like at that very first company that I worked for that educational company, someone that I was working with there is now like,
00:45:02
Speaker
creating some content that it's educational based content. And I've been helping her edit some of these like booklets that she's creating. So some people that were even like further back that I worked for, you know, I've gotten work from them or even just like some of my former coworkers at the tech job, like just telling them what I was trying to do, even when I was niching down a little niching that work.
00:45:21
Speaker
a little bit too much, they were like, oh, I know this person you might want to talk to. And so I got connected to other people that were maybe a little bit more thermonaut tech, but somebody that I was working with in tech knew somebody in a different industry and connected me there. And I've gotten a couple of projects that way too.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Mallory knows this about when I started, but I mean, I took everything. You know, I was like, if it's a project, I can do it. A project of any kind, probably. I don't know, you know, like,
00:45:51
Speaker
We're just like, I don't know. I've done a lot of projects. And that kind of, I think, just tied back to the work I had done previously, which was just so random. I was just used to people being like, here's the thing. Can you do it and figure it out? I'd be like, I don't know, probably. So that's where I spent the first couple of years was just taking whatever. And so I didn't go down for years to our actual programs and services that we have now.
00:46:19
Speaker
I was just kind of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what we liked and what made money and who we liked working with. Yeah. It does feel like it should be all set in the beginning. And you're like, here is my new sense of security. Yeah. Yeah. Like my services page away. That's the page I've updated the most. Like I'm like, is this what I'm going to call my service? And what am I going to price the service? And is this the right like that page? I have been on so many times trying to figure out like, what is the right thing to be putting on this page?
00:46:48
Speaker
like every morning at 9am I update my services page but I thought about last night and it's gonna be fine. I think that's totally normal though. It is totally normal. Think about it. How can you know if you aren't doing it yet or you haven't done it enough or you haven't worked at the right
00:47:04
Speaker
different kinds of people to know who you want to serve. It makes total sense. So I think in the beginning, I love that you're being vulnerable here and saying that because if we have newer entrepreneurs listening, I picture it as like a Google Doc with like, you know, or maybe like your little checklist, like just random things. Like Nicole and I started Business Unbound and it was like in a shared g-sheet and it was literally just like random words and sentences.
00:47:30
Speaker
I mean, we should screenshot it sometime. Then there's a second tab at the bottom and it gets like a little more defined. Third tab, a little more defined. Fourth tab. Okay. Like it's actually defined. And I think we ended at four, but for those out there, this is just your little pep talk. Yes. That's what it's supposed to look like. Paint splattered on a Google sheet until you've been doing it for a little while. So stay the course. Yes.
00:47:55
Speaker
So you know we talked a little bit about scheduling we talked a little bit about finding clients what else have you found that either is actually difficult or just kind of feels a little daunting here in the beginning.
00:48:11
Speaker
I feel like the tax thing I have not really even considered only because I had the W-2 job for all those months. And then severance came in like a lump sum that got taxed crazy. So I'm pretty sure I'm covered for taxes just based on how much I've made. So this year I've just been like not caring about that. I'm like, okay, we're about to start a new year and I really got to figure out the estimated tax payments and all that feels a little daunting to me. I'm just like, I don't know. Okay, good to know. We need to get our tax course out.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah, I know. It is on the docket to have our tax course created. We have our first money management course, but we do have one coming. So if anyone else will have it in the new year for you. Yes. So, you know, kind of despite these things that feel a little bit harder or a little bit scary, you're still doing it, right? And it seems like you're pretty committed to it because when you talk about the alternative,
00:49:05
Speaker
and not seeing like loads of joy on your face, you're still doing it. You still feel like this is gonna be worth it. And I'm curious how kind of your, your why, your motivation for doing this keeps you going when it gets a little tough. So, you know, on the tougher days, like what are you coming back to that you're like, you know what, these are the things about doing this freelance life that are worth it. It's gonna be worth it.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot of what we talked about with like the mom thing. Like my kids are all pretty young. I have a two-year-old, obviously he's very young. And just the idea of being back in that like frantic corporate world just does not appeal to me. And so I know that I can make this be successful. And I mean, it's not going to be an overnight success, obviously we're six months in, but I'm doing it. Yeah. And I'm okay. And I just think that
00:49:52
Speaker
once I get things a little more well-oiled, I guess, I already feel freer, but I think I have this vision that eventually I'll feel even more free. We've already talked about it's helped in my household a little bit, but I think it'll just only get better as I get more comfortable in this world. We haven't touched on this really. How has community and support been a role in this transition for you?
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's been a big role. Like I mentioned, you know, some of my former coworkers and things have connected me to other people or like when I just started putting it out on LinkedIn, what I was doing, some people reached out to me with potential work opportunities. But then even just like, you know, and I've said, my husband's been supportive, even like my siblings, my parents, you know, I've been really lucky to have a lot of people in my corner that, you know, weren't scared at all about like, this is the thing I'm doing. They were just like, yeah, you can do it. You know, I've been really lucky there.
00:50:42
Speaker
I also have found a couple of professional communities specifically for editors, but there's a couple of communities that have a Slack or a Facebook group where people can ask their questions or share resources. A couple of them, every once in a while, there'll be a job opportunity that somebody will post on there.
00:50:58
Speaker
So that's been helpful. And I had mentioned to like, even back in like the early days and I was just thinking about it, there were a couple of people that I reached out to, to just be like, what can you share with me? And actually one of them to bring it full circle was Stephanie Jansen. Oh, good. Yep. She had put out, I think it was like early 2022, which when I was in my blur year of like, I'm not actually doing this thing I'm trying to do.
00:51:18
Speaker
She had put out an email that was like celebrating her five years of business. And I was like, this is my sign that I need to reach out to her and be like, I want to celebrate five years of my own business. And so I reached out to her at that time to just be like, this is something I've been thinking about. Really? Nobody knows. This is something I'm thinking about. And like, I was having a lot of doubts and I was just like, I know you have a lot of kids and you're doing this and you were in tech. Like I felt like we had a lot in common. And I think she did share with me some of those, be your own boss. You guys had talked about. Yeah. So it's really fun.
00:51:48
Speaker
But yeah, people like that that were just so generous with like, yes, you can do this. And like, you know, I had the same kind of doubts that you're having and and really like cheering me on. And I think that's a big thing is that the type of community that you look at can make you feel a certain kind of way. Right. So a lot of times I think people start looking at people on social media. Right. And thinking of that as it is partly a community.
00:52:15
Speaker
But a lot of times that's just the shiny stuff. And it maybe actually makes you feel a little bit worse about your business, right? Someone's saying, hey, I make $300,000 a year. And you're like, I literally just got my first client. Like, I'm doing one project. It ends on Thursday. Like, I don't know that this is going where we're where we need to be going.
00:52:37
Speaker
Versus, you know, reaching out to somebody or hearing stories from people that are just like, they're just like you. Like Stephanie Jansen is a mom with four kids and she just hit five years and she lives where you live. And you're like, this feels doable. Like,
00:52:53
Speaker
I can see her, I can talk to her, I can hear her story on this podcast, I can relate to this, right? Because we're not skipping steps of saying, I just magically got to 300K and you're like, but how? So I would just caution people, think through the kinds of support and network that you're getting and make sure that those people remind you of you so that you feel like it's really relatable.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah, because not everybody has that. It sounds amazing that you have this network that really lifted you up. Some people don't have it at all. Or some people may have like naysayers is the phrase, right? Like, Oh, what are you talking about? You can't make money that way or the negative side, right?
00:53:37
Speaker
So hopefully even just if we don't know you just listening to these people's stories, we're just regular folks out here just working hard who have a work ethic and have some skills and we are trying to support other people and putting humans first, you know, we're really doing it with this like human centric attitude. So anyway, if you're out there, you don't have a network like Abby did, let us be your network.
00:54:02
Speaker
Listen to us. Email us. We'll lift you up. We have confidence in you. If you're here listening, we know that you've got the skills to do it. Yes, totally agree. Well, I think we have time for one more question, Abby. What's something that has been easier?
00:54:21
Speaker
then you thought it would be starting the new job. This is probably gonna be a surprising answer. Cause I feel like when I'm gonna say a lot of people are, it's like the first thing that they're like, somebody take my money and do this for me. But I feel like the invoicing and the accounting stuff, I was really intimidated by that at first. And I mean, my business is really simple. I'll just say, so it makes it a little easier. But before I had system set up, I was kind of intimidated by that. But then it's like, I got an accounting tool. I got a business bank account. They're connected. Like a lot of it's just,
00:54:47
Speaker
Slowing in there, getting track. I've got a template for the invoices. So, you know, it takes me like two minutes to create an invoice. Like it's just not as intimidating as I thought it was at first. Oh, that's so good. What systems are you using just out of curiosity now? So I'm using WAVE for accounting, which is free except for like the credit card processing fees. And then the bank is called Lilly Bank, which is for freelancers. But I think it's actually like connected to an actual bank that's like choice financial or something like that.
00:55:14
Speaker
Gotcha. And doing that probably gives you a little bit of extra confidence being like, you know, here's this thing I worried about and now I don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
00:55:25
Speaker
Relay Financial is another one that's set up for freelancers, especially if they're interested in profit first. So if people are starting out, I would check, you said Lilly, and then Relay Phi. So with Lilly, and then Wave, and then Wave is the accounting system. And Wave, yeah, and we have Melio for that too, yeah. But, and everybody else, just a reminder, make sure you're deducting those processing fees as an expense, those count.
00:55:50
Speaker
Oh, I don't know if I knew that. So look, I'm learning things. There you go. You get to subtract those babies from taxes. There you go. Yes. Well, we've talked about so much in this story, but what I like is that we got to talk to somebody who's just starting out and it gives me all the memories, all the deja vu. And as someone who's approaching nine years now, I'll make sure you're on my email when I celebrate nine, celebrate 10, hopefully.
00:56:20
Speaker
But I'm glad it gave you a little bit of extra confidence to have a network of people cheering you on, whether those were former colleagues or family and friends. That's a huge piece. But I just want to say thank you for being so transparent with us about the journey so far and what it looked like in your life before and now. I think that's really important for people here. So thank you for sharing your time and wisdom with us. Yeah, thank you both. This has been fun.
00:56:49
Speaker
So we are actually wrapping up season one already, which seems insane. And we will have a two week break here. And we'll be back with season two, which is going to be all about entrepreneur well-being, physical mental well-being. And we have so many amazing episodes planned for that topic because Mallory and I are obsessed with it. So we hope everyone has a wonderful end of year. And thank you for being part of our podcast community. And we will talk to you in January. See you then.
00:57:18
Speaker
Thanks for listening. Hop over to UnboundBoss.com to join our community and leave us a voice memo. We absolutely love hearing from you. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, leave us an Apple review, and share your favorite episodes with other women entrepreneurs. Talk to you soon.