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Episode 64: Leslie Iwerks - PT 1
75 Plays1 year ago
On this week's episode we bring you part 1 of a truly amazing conversation with Oscar and Emmy nominated documentary filmmaker, author, and granddaughter of Disney royalty...the one and only Leslie Iwerks! You DEFINITELY don't want to miss this one. And be sure to check back next week for part 2 of our chat for even more amazing stories from Leslies career!
For more info on Leslie or to purchase her books (like "The Imagineering Story") check out her website HERE
DISCLAIMER: We are not an affiliate of the Walt Disney Company nor do we speak for the brand or the company. Any and all Disney-owned audio, characters, and likenesses are their property and theirs alone!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Sharing the Magic'
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that takes you on a journey through the enchanting worlds of Disney. Each week, we're joined by a special guest, whether they're a magician creating moments of astonishment or a Disney expert sharing the secrets behind the magic of the happiest place on Earth. Together we'll uncover the stories, inspirations, and behind the scenes tales that bring these worlds to life. So, get ready to be spellbound and transported to a place where dreams come true.
Meet the Hosts and Special Guest
00:00:49
Speaker
yeah
00:00:54
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of the Sharing the Magic podcast. I'm Matt and I'll be your host this week as we welcome a very special guest to share their Disney story with us. She's an Oscar and Emmy nominated director and producer and author and the granddaughter of Disney royalty. But before we introduce our guest, let's say hi to my friends who will be helping me co-host the show this week. First up, we've got Rachel. Hey, Rachel.
00:01:18
Speaker
Hey, just got back from run Disney and the heat wave of Disneyland and came back to a tiny little side of a hurricane. So that was exciting. So ah looking forward to our conversation tonight. Uh, also with us, we have Dawn. How have you been Dawn? I'm happy because I'm packing my suitcase and tomorrow I fly out to Walt Disney world. didn last None of us are jealous. None of us are. Lisa is joining us too. Hey, Lisa.
00:01:46
Speaker
Hi, everyone. So happy to be here tonight. We're back up in the 80s and 90s here in Indiana. So I, you know, I'm just previewing that Florida weather for next month. Tonight, we've also got James joining us. Hi, James. How are you doing? How's it going, guys? I'm out here in the great Pacific Northwest dealing with that rain. You know, it's that fall weather they're coming to us. So I'm jealous of all the heat, but I'm excited for tonight. This is going to be a great, great one. I am truly excited.
00:02:15
Speaker
Yes, it is. It is. ah Next, Brian is here with us. Hey, Brian. Hey, and I'm just ah relishing the last couple of weekends of the the Jersey Shore here. And I'm looking forward to this episode. Yep. A lot of good stuff to talk about. And rounding out our crew tonight, as always, we have our one and only Goofy Doop, Jeff. Oh, man. Hey, Jeff. I found this today.
00:02:39
Speaker
So I'm really happy. I found my goofy hat and I i haven't had this in a long time. So it's even, I won't fit out over my, uh, but Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to welcome less. I'm going to welcome you to my goofy voice. oh glo I'm just happy to have you. Well, we're going to have a good show and it's going to be swell of a time. yeah and Okay.
Leslie Iwerks Joins the Conversation
00:03:03
Speaker
So you could probably tell we are excited if you didn't read the title of the podcast when you opened it up, but we have the one and only Leslie Eiworks with us tonight. We are so excited and honored to have you on the show. I was telling you kind of before we hit record that Barry, our our fearless leader who unfortunately can't be with us tonight, when he told us that he got you to come on the show when he he pinned you in, we lost our collective minds. We've been talking for the past few weeks in our chat about Leslie's coming. What are we going to talk to Leslie about? We are. I know many of us rewatched the Imagineering story. We read some books. We did a lot of, you know, deep dive stuff. So we are so excited to have you on. ah Thank you for being here.
Disney Legacy and Family Stories
00:03:43
Speaker
Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's fun. Fun to see you guys.
00:03:47
Speaker
So like I said, Barry is our fearless leader. He is the ghost host, the guy that got this crazy thing started and brought us all together and works his magic to get guests like you on the show. And unfortunately, he won't be with us tonight. But whenever Barry is with us, he always starts off our conversations kind of with the same question. So when he is away, we like to continue that tradition.
00:04:10
Speaker
I'm going to ask you the question. I feel like many of us probably have an idea as to what your answer may be. We may be completely wrong, so we're excited to hear, but we still want to hear the story no matter what. ah But he always likes to ask, where did your love of Disney come from? And how does that kind of lead to your current story with the company that we all love? ah Well, that's a long answer. So we have time. We have time.
00:04:37
Speaker
um Well, you know, I grew up around it. I grew up in Burbank. My dad worked at Disney. He was the head of the machine shop there. So he was running all the camera equipment and projection systems for the Tokyo and Walt Disney World and and the movies and everything. And so as I grew up, I was surrounded by that. And, you know, he would bring home 60 millimeter film animated films from the studio and he would project him on the wall and have have sound.
00:05:04
Speaker
you know, speakers and we would watch like 101 Dalmatians and every animated film you can think of that was Disney in our home with all the neighborhood friends and it was just always a fun ah fun Disney um experience in the house. And then as I got older, I started to really understand, you know, who my grandfather was. He had passed away when I was one.
00:05:25
Speaker
so I never knew him but my grandmother was alive and she told me lots of stories about him and I'd stayed the weekend at her house and you know my grandfather's office was pretty much intact when he since he passed so I would sleep in his office because he had a little spare bed in there and I would just look around and these paint brushes were there and his you know his pictures of he and Walt when they were young and teenagers in Kansas City were framed on the wall and You know, I just there were a lot of his awards were in there. And so I would just start to really learn who he was through her.
Leslie's Path to Filmmaking
00:05:58
Speaker
um And then over time, it just it started to become a ah thing that, you know, I realized my grandfather was very instrumental in the early days of with Waltz. Right. So and then finally, I think at some point I did a book report on my grandfather because I thought, well, if I'm never going to be able to meet him, I'd at least try to do a book report. So I did a but book report, and that's when I kind of woke up to the fact that, yeah, he was pretty instrumental. And then, I don't know, somewhere along the way, I i just and always felt like I wanted to go into film. And it got to a point when, like, in high school, I realized I wanted to go to USC. So I went to USC film school.
00:06:38
Speaker
and um started learning you know film. Never took a documentary class, ironically, but it was not until I left disney i left USC that I wanted to do the story of my grandfather as a film, as a documentary. So then that launched. Roy E. Disney supported my effort in doing the documentary of my grandfather, which my biggest thing was I didn't want to be a documentary filmmaker. I just wanted to tell his story because the people that worked with him had been we're were passing away.
00:07:07
Speaker
and They were getting to that age and I thought, man, if I don't ever do it now, ah no one's ever going to do it and I'm the right person to do it. So I did that film and then that basically did really well. They put it up for an Academy Award. They just really supported my effort to show that around the world.
00:07:24
Speaker
And then um John Lasseter was in that was interviewed for that film. And then he saw it up at Pixar. And then he said, would you do this for us? Would you tell our story as well? And so that just kind of led from one project to another. And that's, you know, another chapter of the rest of my career. But that's kind of the origin, the origin story of my interest was going behind the scenes on the Disney Studio lot.
00:07:48
Speaker
seeing her the Herbie you know bug park there on the weekends and just kind of that magic running in and out of the sets, the old western sets and realizing this was not not real, it was all fake. you know And so it was like that behind the scenes making of that really instilled in me an interest in um how things are done, how things are made. I think doing the documentary, my grandfather sort of also instilled this idea of you know just sheer innovation and sheer risk taking that it took back then in their 20s or teens and what they ended up doing together through the career their entire career. They just were awesome together.
00:08:26
Speaker
so Anyway, so that probably was a ah the seeds of why I'm interested in films about stories about innovation and creativity and business and that sort of convergence of all those things have been, ah have permeated a a lot of my films anyway.
00:08:42
Speaker
OK, so there's like a lot to unpack there because that is amazing. yeah So the one thing I will say is I love the story about how, you know, growing up and the projectors up on the wall and the kids are all coming over to watch the Disney movies. I love that as kind of like that that foundation as to why I guess Disney is close to your heart. And of course, your your dad and your grandpa's legacy of working with the company.
00:09:03
Speaker
I watch Disney movies with my kids every Friday. It's like it's like a big event. So we love doing that. And of the Imagineering story was, of course, one of the things that we watched. But I would love to ask you a little bit um about the relationship with your dad. So when you go from just, you know, dad's bringing home the movies and you're watching and then all of a sudden you are starting to work in that field and you're starting to tell the stories of your grandpa. And then, you know, for Lassiter to come up to you and say, hey, I want you to tell our story and you're doing all of these things.
00:09:33
Speaker
there's got to be an immense sense of pride right from your dad and everybody saying oh like you are kind of carrying on this legacy of what the iWorks family has done was that like a big part of your your quest like i know you said you wanted to make sure everybody knew your grandpa's story and and why you do it what was the relationship with your father i guess when you started to transfer from just being you know, dad's little girl watching Disney to all of a sudden making these things and and really bringing this stuff to life. Well, I think, you know, I had told him that I felt like I'd love to do a documentary on on ah and he's like, you know, he was very supportive and said, sure, I'll help you. You know, and he he actually wrote a letter to Roy E. Disney and said, Leslie wants to do a documentary. Would you, you know, have the courtesy to meet with her and just hear her out?
00:10:25
Speaker
um And I actually did a little video, a little sizzle reel, so to speak, as well. I mean, I had that film mapped out because I was able to get a lot of the family photos and things. And I mean, ah documented his trip out from Kansas City to California. Right. He took photos of that road trip going down that dirt road. And um we had all his letters and we had his correspondences and his memos and like just a whole, you know,
00:10:53
Speaker
what do you call it, like library of content that my grandfather had kept, right, of his life. So, I was able to basically get into my living room and just map put photos everywhere, in sequential order, letters, you know, you name it.
00:11:09
Speaker
and map out his life along. They were actually taped to the living room wall and I had like this huge mural on my wall of just the abiwork's life, right photos to everything and figuring out what would I put in that documentary and then I was able to shoot all that and then put a sizzle reel together and then went and met with Roy and um he said, you know, I would love nothing more than to support you in doing this documentary And the company has not never really given up the proper credit for Mickey. And he deserves that. And he really he worked with my grandfather, actually, um in the process lab. And he really admired him. And he just really looked up to him. So he said, I want to help your efforts. So he went to Eisner and Eisner agreed. And so they funded a certain amount of money. I wanted to do a 90 minute film, actually.
00:11:57
Speaker
And this is another kind of cool story that I had a vision for a 90 minute and for 80 minutes, something like that. And they, because it was my very first film at a film school, really, they were like, well, we'll fund 60, 60 minutes, you know, and we're not sure what we're going to do with it yet. Like they they were kind of, it was like not tried and true yet as far as their trust, me being able to pull off. And they said, can you go out, if you can go out and raise the money, Roy said this, we will support it and maybe we'll distribute it.
00:12:27
Speaker
So they didn't want to put up the money at first. And i wasn't a director I was a director's assistant at this time. And I remember literally the next day I was in the in the ah trailer of the director where I worked on set. I think we were working on Gia at the time. And I was in that trailer and I wrote a letter to all these all these production companies about that I've got the support of the Disney company and we're looking for X hundreds of thousands of dollars at this point.
00:12:51
Speaker
and would I would they be willing to come on and fund it and Disney will distribute it and I swear to god I raised the money the entire amount in one day like like it was like I got a fax we were like I mean maybe it was a one day maybe it was like within a week but it felt like one day because I yeah like did it to be that quick so then I I called Roy and told him that I've got the money he's like you know how did you do that And I said, well, clearly there's a demand for the story. And he goes, well, let me go back to Michael. So they ended up funding it after all. And then we they can grant him 60, 60 minutes. So I cut the film and cut the 60 minute thing and they loved it so much. They said, what what's your vision for an extra 30? You wanted a 90 minute to begin with. And so I told them what I would have included. And they said, okay. And they gave me the same exact amount of money for an extra 30 minutes. And they said, go do it. And then at the end of that, they loved it. And they put it up for an Academy award. Like they submitted it. and
00:13:48
Speaker
Anyway, it was just like a so that film was a real labor love. And I think that's what showed. And I think that's what John Lassiter saw when they screened. We screened it at Pixar. And I remember doing the Q and&A at Pixar after the film and all the employees were there and Ed and Ed Catmull and John Lassiter and and somebody had asked me if you could have done anything differently in the making of your film. What would it have been? And I said, well, I would have been a fly in the wall to the making of Mickey Mouse. I would have loved to like had a camera been there, filmed it and had that for posterity.
00:14:17
Speaker
And that gave John the idea, as he was sitting in the audience, that maybe we should be documenting our own story of Pixar. So then they brought me up to Ed's. We were supposed to have like a little lunch in the commissary. Instead, they invited me up to Ed's office and we're in in Ed's office with John and Ed for like what was supposed to be like an hour lunch and turned out to be like a two, three hour meeting, telling me all about the history of Pixar and all this stuff. And ultimately they said, would you be interested in doing this?
00:14:45
Speaker
And I said, of course, are you kidding? i would like but So anyway, that launched the next venture with Pixar um over a course and of numerous years documenting behind the scenes and doing exactly what I told them I would have loved to have done with my grandfather. So anyway. So that's a whole other chapter. But did that answer your question? Oh, yes. Yes. That and more. It was that's an amazing story. I would love to ask you real quick. What was not in the original in the 60? What was not in the original version, but was in the extended director's cut? What was the stuff that you got to add in that you really wanted that extra 30 minutes for?
00:15:21
Speaker
So I went back to Kansas City and I documented the Kansas City film ad building and where they cut their teeth as ah as in young animators. And um I wanted to film B-roll of that. I wanted to dive deeper into that whole era.
00:15:37
Speaker
And there's a lot of really cool stuff that happened as a result of that. I went back there and I went into that building. It was still very much the same as it was back in the day. And there was an old theater downstairs that was still there where they watched their dailies. and and And it was odd because I saw this very narrow theater with a tattered screen and everything. and And I thought, oh, my God, this is crazy that this is where Walt and I were as teenagers watching their anime movies. And then I had enlisted the head of archives for the Kansas City Library, and he had helped me find all this stuff. Well, one day he emails me or whatever it was back then um calls me, writes me a letter, whatever it was. It was like in 1980, 1998, I think it was
00:16:22
Speaker
And he said, you're never going to believe this. But I was at a garage sale in Kansas City. And I found photos from your grandfather and Walt's era of the film and building. And he sends them to me. And there they they're they made the film. They're in the movie. And they're that theater with the tattered screen and the narrow the narrow projection hall with the seats and everything. And I went, you've got to be kidding me. This is you know like a godsend that this that I'm seeing these old photographs from what I wanted to go back and film. you know And so anyway, I ended up using all those photos in the film and and it extended it quite a bit. And there were a lot of other things that you know I added. I mean, it was basically an expanded version of the 60 minute, but I was really able to a little deeper into the Kansas City era um with the new that randomly came my way. So.
00:17:14
Speaker
Well, I'm very glad that they gave you that extra 30 minutes because I've seen it and it is amazing. And I know the part that you're talking about and it is, it's cool to see that, that part of Walton and your grandfather's life and stuff. And I'm, I'm glad they they gave that to you. Yeah, me too.
00:17:30
Speaker
I had a thought you you mentioned bringing up, you know, on the backlot, you know, with your dad and, you know, him doing all that. Could you directly see the effects of what your grandfather had helped create at that time? Or did it take while you were in USC at film school to really see that? And also, did people really understand what your last name meant to that film industry while you were in film school?
00:17:52
Speaker
I mean, I think that the backlot stuff was cool because, you know, I mean, now the machine shop was just rows and rows and rows of projection systems. Right. And I mean, it was daunting. You'd walk in there and you're like, I had no idea what anything was. It was just a lot of technology everywhere. And, you know, just.
00:18:09
Speaker
chips what do you call them the metal metal shavings from the from the lathes and the millings and the you know whatever and it just had a smell to it and it was always very busy even on the weekends i didn't quite know exactly what my grandfather's exact contributions were because at this point he had long been gone like by what maybe Well, I don't know about long gone, but 10 years earlier, maybe 12 years earlier, or something like that, when I would go to the... yeah He died in 71 and I was born in 70. So, by this point, I might've been 10 when I was going to the lot, whatever. So, um and you know as I got older, I'd still go sometimes. and
00:18:50
Speaker
But like I said, it was it was really the stories that were handed down to my to me through my my dad and my my grandmother and my mom, who knew him as well a little bit and and also had a lot of really great memories.
00:19:05
Speaker
Anyway, so I didn't, and again, I never really saw like his direct equipment or stuff, you know what I mean? But I would see the stuff my dad was working on and by default, my grandfather had had sort of started some of those projects and my dad finished them. And then by the time I got to USC, yeah, I mean, people would comment on the last name. I i remember being in the history of cinema class, it was my first semester and Leonard Malton was teaching the course.
00:19:33
Speaker
And I went up and introduced myself at the end of the class. And and he said, oh, my God, i like your grandfather was, you know, huge contributor to the Disney Company and so nice to have you. And and I only want to actually I remember this. it They were showing um animated films or something. And it was they were talking about of Iwerks and Mickey Mouse and Walt and the steamboat Willie and the early Mickey's. And so it was then that I i never said anything to him.
00:20:00
Speaker
at first, it was ah maybe a few classes. And finally, I just went up to him after he mentioned my grandfather in class that I was Leslie Highworks. And he's like he he goes, I knew you were in this class. And, you know, and then Leonard and I have stayed friends all these years. I mean, he's been a part of my films, a lot of my films, he's been interviewed and he's been a big he was on the brain trust um for my Warner Brothers documentary series that came out last year.
00:20:25
Speaker
So he's been a dear, a dear friend and collaborator ever since that first film school class. All right. I'm going to do something here. I've never done this with a guest before. Here it is. I'm going to ask you ah two questions and you can choose which one, and which one would ever follow your heart. I think my my question was going to be. All right. I wrote him down because, you know.
00:20:48
Speaker
What do you think people often overlook or misunderstand about your family's contributions to the Disney? Okay, so that's or that's one. Or if you'd rather have this question, what advice would you give to aspiring documentary filmmakers?
00:21:09
Speaker
um Well, I can answer both real quick. OK, I'll give you. i think I think the misunderstanding is probably the fact that he was a critical part of the creation of Mickey Mouse. Right. And the foundation of the Disney Company played in simple. um And then um but I feel like the work that I've done with the film and the book and my dad's book and, you know, it's just you try. And I think I really owe a lot to Roy Disney for for launching that to begin with.
00:21:37
Speaker
And then aspiring filmmakers. I mean, I like it. I can only go by what ah what worked for me, um which was to learn how to edit and to edit projects. And that was critical because if you don't know how to edit, especially documentaries, it's all it all comes together in the editing room. And you got to really feel what you're in. And also to shoot like I shot a lot of my first films. I mean, I shot, you know, Recycled Life, which we which was my Oscar nominated short. I felt I filmed that.
00:22:05
Speaker
and I edited it. and And that was a really great opportunity to learn how to tell a story in a compelling way with music and everything. So I think editing is a lot of fun. So why wouldn't you, right? So that's important. And then um watching documentaries and studying what works and what doesn't and why. And breaking them down and understanding how docs are structured in a lot of ways. yeah And you know it's it all it's all about story, and it's all about structure. And every doc still has a sort of three-act structure. And it's sort of very similar in a way to the structure of feature films and TV series. And it's just have to issue a different medium. So that's probably my long-winded answer to.
00:22:49
Speaker
It's not long-winded at all. I'm someone, I love documentaries. I fall asleep to them every, I don't know what it is. I have to fall asleep to documentary every night, like literally my in my headphones all throughout the night. And if it's, if a documentary is not interesting enough, I got to find something different. I can't fall asleep. If it's if it's too bombastic over the top, I go, uh, uh, uh, it just has, it has to hold your attention in this like,
00:23:18
Speaker
subtle but natural way and I'll tell you what I'm a I'm a big fan of documentaries and I get that editing thing and by the way Matt you know as someone who edits podcasts there you go some inspiration right here for you yeah But and I also I had a question within the the documentary aspect of it all. Do you think choosing the right narrator for the documentary helps elevate that? Because I know, you know, Angelica Houston and Morgan Freeman are great narrators, David Attenborough, the Attenborough family in general. Do you think choosing someone of that stature or someone who has a ah credit to themselves helps elevate that? Or do you find find it easier to find someone who has um
00:24:03
Speaker
a kind of a knack for it, I should say. No, I do. I mean, actually, Angelica Houston and Morgan Freeman I've worked with, they've both narrated things I've done. um They're amazing, you know Angela Bassett. I've worked with ah Tom Cruise. I mean, I've worked with a lot of great narrators and um that adds a lot to a documentary. And you know it's they also have to kind of know what they're doing, because I'm very specific about it. And we spent a lot of time in editing with temp narration.
00:24:38
Speaker
And we get the inflection just the way we want it. And then you have somebody who comes in and they don't do it right. You really have to direct them to get it to where you want it. But then oftentimes they bring something really unexpected to it to certain lines and you're like, oh my God, that just was way better than what we had in there. So you have to be open to it because at that point in the game, when you're doing narration, you're pretty much solidify your entire show. And now this is the last piece that's going to help give it personality or shape or, you know, feeling.
00:25:05
Speaker
And if it's not right, you're kind of freaked out. And if it's great, you're like, okay, that just took, you know, took it to a whole nother level. So yeah, I definitely say that celebrity narrators are are critical or at least they have been for me. I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of great people.
00:25:22
Speaker
When you made the hand behind the mouse, I know you talked about, I love photos, by the way, I'm a huge shutterbug. I'm the historian reporter of the family, I call myself. But um so I get that you have the fan the ah photos, which tell a thousand words, each one, and you can lay that out. But did you have any other resources or who was your biggest inspiration that you could rely on to help you kind of paint that story? Was it your dad or who kind of helped you get more information to fill in those blanks? Well, before I hand behind the mouse, you mean? Yes. um um Well, it was a combination. I mean, I felt like I spent a lot of time with it before we even started editing or got the film greenlit. So I had kind of known what I wanted in there to to be the visual to the story. But also the Disney archives, you know, Walt Disney archives really were
00:26:17
Speaker
very helpful. I spent a lot of time there and they had a lot of cool stuff. So, you know, you just go through every single beat and then when you get then so you'd map it out that way but then when you start doing the interviews then people tell you things you didn't know and then now you got a whole new sound bite in there you got to cover and figure out what's going to go with that and then you go back and you know it's just a constant iteration to try to find great material that's either a had never been seen which is harder and harder in the Disney world But at the time, I think there was nobody really knew a lot of my works period. So it was, you know, it was all pretty, pretty new.
00:26:51
Speaker
Also, the last name, I'm sorry, I just have to say, it is just made to do production, movies, documentaries. I'm like, is that really the last name? I just, it blows my mind, because it's just perfect. That's your last name. As just Dutch and German descent, and it actually means work hard. that it So I'm like, great, that's my last name.
00:27:18
Speaker
It's a great thing. So i have I have an interesting story. and it that's real it it it So my company, I'm an IT and my company is diving into AI trying to figure out where we want to go and how it's going to impact us. And one of the suggested watchings was selling lies. And I just put this together today. I'm like, wait a second. I've seen that. um So I just want to tell you that's fabulous. And I know we're talking about Disney, but I have to tell you that's ah that's a terrific documentary.
00:27:47
Speaker
Wow, thanks. I appreciate that. I'm glad you. Where'd you see it? might Somebody out, somebody, they sent us a link to watch it. yeaht know what Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It's about the Macedonian teens who basically hacked into Facebook in the 2016 election and um created all this fake news, pro-Trump fake news all over, you know, America and made tons of money on it. And now that seems just so innocent.
00:28:12
Speaker
but Compared to what else, yes, exactly. But and but it at the time it was great and it just also just shows the danger that's out there and which, yeah, it terrific. Wonderful thing. and I know it's nothing to do with Disney, but I want to let you know that I ah thought it was great.
00:28:27
Speaker
but But I do think it is important to the documentary aspect of her story because selling lies was kind of a revolutionary idea and thought process because of what it encompassed and what it told as a part of a documentary you know aspect.
00:28:43
Speaker
And the idea of this whole pro one person or another, it's been out there for years, but for somebody to to take scope the way they did and step outside the norm, it's an amazing documentary and it is not anything to be overlooked for sure. And ah I do appreciate the work within it.
00:29:00
Speaker
Thank you. Well, you know, the the thing about that film, it was hard for me because here here are a group of people that are doing something wrong, right? they're They're selling lies and making money on it and fabricating the truth and making people look bad. And um that's now in our normal everyday life. But the interesting thing was it wasn't then and it was all new. And that was what, you know, that was 2016. This would have been happening in about 2014, 2015.
00:29:29
Speaker
when all this was going on. So it was a decade ago, right? and And it was hard for me because I don't like to do, I don't like to necessarily portray characters that are that are, in essence, bad, you know, that are doing immoral things. but it was a bigger picture about it's It was a warning story of what things could be. and I interviewed you know the Minister of um Communications, I think it was, for Macedonia. and you know He said, like yeah this is this is just the beginning for your country.
00:30:02
Speaker
you know and um If you guys don't see this coming, you know, what happened to Macedonia, which was the, you know, the president, I think it was president basically took over and and got rid of all the media.
00:30:17
Speaker
And then it became government owned media and it was all a deception and in lies became a ah very sort of like Russia, you know, um state owned anyway, not to get serious. But the thing was, I realized the way that I needed to to look at that film was that these guys, just like all my other films, OK, about innovation and pioneers and what they do,
00:30:42
Speaker
These guys were innovators. They were pioneers in what they were doing. And so when I reframe my head of like, oh, they're just, you know, being immoral and corrupt and everything else. No, actually they are. But they're also doing something that's never been done before. And they're innovators. so And so I had to really look at it like that through that lens.
00:31:02
Speaker
And that became my way of telling the story and let the audience, not me, let the audience judge on how they feel about about what is happening and what these people are doing. I was trying to be as, you know, impartial and and honest and observational as I humanly could. Right. So that's the thing about these documentaries is, you know, you really have to be you have to look at both sides of the story and say, you know, you can't just make a puff piece about even though you may respect like I have many of the characters that I've documented. I also have to look at what the flaws are and, you know, and be critical about some of the mistakes that were made and be pointed about some of those questions and say, you know, why why did you make this choice? What what was, you know, your reasoning behind that? And do you have any regrets? And
00:31:52
Speaker
You know, stuff like that that make you human, you know, because a lot of the subjects that I've heard crafted are people that I've covered. They don't people don't get to meet those people, you know, they don't get to ask those questions. But I have the great I've had the great fortune to be able to sit in front of the Bob Igers and the John Lassiter's and Steve Jobs and ask them heartfelt questions about what worked and what didn't, you know, and they trust me enough to know that I'm not going to throw them under the bus in the final film, but that I'm going to be at least objective about it. And and and try to be as truthful as possible to both sides. Because I don't think people understand that as technology, as we make all these great advancements in technology, some people use them for good, and there's others that use them for bad. And that's the way it's always going to be. And and that's a hard thing. And that and again, this this helps to tell the story, and hopefully it sinks into some people.
00:32:43
Speaker
Yeah, and I was gonna say, you know, there' there's observ what they say, observation, interpretation, application. And so often you'll watch a documentary or just anything that's thrown your way. You're like, okay, it's always it it always skips the observation, the facts, you know, the facts, as truthful as you can be.
00:33:01
Speaker
It's usually, here's the interpretation, here's what you need to, let me do the thinking for you, and here's how you apply it to your life, the application. And um I think that is when what what you just said about the the way that you go into making films. That is something I think is not just wonderful, it's something I think that um I'm gonna get old and crotchety here for a second. I think i don't i think it's it's getting... like it's like The documentaries I watch are getting more and more interpretation, straight to interpretation, then application, but not a lot of observation, not a lot of, okay, let's be truthful about the facts and let you make the interpretation and the application.
00:33:46
Speaker
And they want to do that for you. So I think just thank you for what you've done. And and I'll just say, I mean, I think that's just a a wonderful um way to make documentaries as somebody that needs to watch documentaries to fall asleep at night. You know, I hope you don't fall asleep to my films. up No, no, no. Well, if I do, it's ah it's a it's a it's a compliment, not a because they're usually like UFO or Bigfoot documentaries. But there you go. That'll be fun dreams for you.
00:34:16
Speaker
I just have to say, my sister used to, who passed away three years ago, but whenever I would show her my films, I was always nervous because she would always fall asleep. And I was like, why do you always fall asleep? She's like, at night, it's just the way it is. I just fall asleep to film. So I would always force her to watch it like in the morning. i and and it's a couple I'm sure it was a couple I'm the same way a good documentary but oh that's that's a good job and then I'll just like I'll just fall asleep and that's how I know it's like oh that was a good what was it about and I subconsciously I could tell you but uh I'm not watching a documentary with you
00:34:54
Speaker
Especially my own. yeah Yeah, you don't want your feelings hurt. no If I fall asleep, that's a gift. You're like, you'd be like, he's he's out like a light. I must have done a good job. And that's how you didn't even fit. You just fell asleep. That's awesome.
00:35:13
Speaker
Storytelling is also, you know, i I loved how you said you mapped out the story in your living room on a story, but, you know, figured out what you would tell. And storytelling is a way of life. um Who is your favorite storyteller and what makes them great?
00:35:31
Speaker
I don't know if I have a real favorite. I mean, ah I'll be honest, I think Walt Disney's a brilliant storyteller. I mean, I've studied him and I could probably speak the most about him as a storyteller in all his different ways he's done it. From you know from animation to live action to documentaries, to life adventures, to the stories in every theme park, well, not every Disneyland, in the in the attractions that they told, he was the ultimate storyteller, you know?
00:35:57
Speaker
You know, I guess of our modern era, you could look back at all the great storytellers like Shakespeare or whoever. But but, you know, I think of ah of our time, I think Walt Disney is definitely, you know, right up there.
00:36:12
Speaker
It's probably not the answer you wanted. That's really interesting. so Well, I, I actually, as I was listening of all things, your Ted talk, um, and I, I heard, I saw in there where you're saying you would listen to the banter of your parents at, you know, at dinner and your mom would ask good questions and then your dad would give the answers. And I just wondered if, if you gleaned a lot from, from their process and in what you're doing now today.
00:36:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i i my mom doesn't believe me, but I do feel like she was hugely instrumental in my, I don't know, the DNA of me being an inquisitive. It's interesting because my sister and I, and my parents would just sit around the table and and um you know my dad would come home often late, much to my mom's chagrin, because he was working late and we'd all so wait till he got home and have our proper dinner, right? Even if it was like nine o'clock at night or whatever, eight o'clock.
00:37:07
Speaker
But we would we would sit at if as a family and talk about the day. And I've always you know respected that as I got older because not every family does that. And I think that that grounds you in what everybody gets to share a little bit about their day. and um But I always just was fascinated because my mom always knew how to ask questions. she's just It's in her DNA today. like She'll just ask you a lot of questions about things. And she likes to see the 360 of something.
00:37:36
Speaker
she would ask my dad not how was your day but it was like where'd you go for lunch and who did you eat with and what did you eat and what did you guys talk about and then when you came back what did you do after that and what did you meet with and how's his wife and what are they up to and have they traveled lately you know what i mean like it was just um my dad was like i didn't ask her that but i didn't ask him that question but and we are frustrated like i didn't have I don't know. what I don't remember what my dad had for lunch. Like, you know, you get all the details, but your mom did all the details. yeah My mom, like she just wanted to know all the all the cool details she can picture at all. And she still does. She asked me a lot of questions about my my world. And it's great. I mean, I think it's not enough. People ask other people questions about themselves, you know, and and I think that
00:38:21
Speaker
got ingrained in me because when I go to a cocktail party, I love talking to people about themselves. I don't really like talking about me. And so I I kind of do that. And it turns out that my sister ended up becoming a journalist in numerous states for numerous stations around the country. um So her job was asking questions and she was on air and, you know, on TV every night. And then I became a documentary filmmaker asking questions. So I don't know. I I do think that there's a lot of i don't know interesting um
00:38:54
Speaker
yeah i don't know dna there with my mom who that was that's who she is she's just in she's she's an inquiring mind sense of wonder i love that it's um it's thank It's safe to say that you grew up around storytellers or storytellers in your blood and understanding what a storyteller truly is. Do you think that translated into how you present your films, whether they be documentaries, ah whether it be you be an assistant on a film, whether you know how you present ideas overall, do you think that that has antiquated to how you present yourself today?
00:39:30
Speaker
Um, I think, well, like I said, I think that, you know, the early sitting around the table with lot my mom asking lots of questions helped that. But I also think I just have an inquisitive mind. My dad would come home and he would be, he would go to, go to, we'd all have dinner, then he would retreat to his home office and he would now be working on some lens or camera development that he would be working on in his CAD system. So he would be designing something. and you know, with his architectural rendering or whatever. And I would just be like standing over shoulder and I'd say, what are you doing? You know, and so he would in great detail begin to show me what he was up to. And I had to try to learn optics and, you know, all the stuff that he was natural with that I wasn't. And so I was also inquisitive about the behind the scenes and making of. And I think he inspired that in me. um But while also my going to the to the back lot and then he would take me to
00:40:19
Speaker
to the Disney Park or Walt Disney World and we would go backstage and we would see everything getting built and, you know, all the the making of stuff. And this is way before, well, not way before, but I mean, Walt Disney did his his TV shows, but you didn't see a lot of stuff on Imagineering, you know, in those in those days at all.
00:40:37
Speaker
um I didn't grow up with that. so it was It was very exclusive to be a kid backstage with a dad who was right there in the in the formative creation era. you know um it's kind of I talked to Kim Irvine about that. Imagine your Kim Irvine whose mother also worked in the model shop and everything. and you know She grew up around that too and it was just the magic of the model shop. you know I wish that I could have been a fly on the wall of the model shop like she had been.
00:41:03
Speaker
um with with Blaine and Harriet and, you know, all the great the great imagineers who were there. But I got to know those folks um in as well, like Blaine and Harriet. I got to know them a lot. And Mark and Alice and a little Virginia McGee, you played Alice in Cartoon Land. So they all became family friends as I as I was growing up. And it was just fun, you know, to have to have a little bit of that exposure as a young as a young kid.
00:41:30
Speaker
You mentioned Cameron Fine. I'm a former mansion cast member, so that that name really strikes home to me because of that name. And being around Imagineers, you brought brought up Mark, and you brought up Alice. I know filming with the Imagineers series, you got to work with Bob, Bob Gurr. I mentioned, he, what was it like picking the brands of people like Cam and Marty Scolar for, you know, a documentary series?
00:41:53
Speaker
Well, so Marty was the one that he screaming he asked ah me to screen the Pixar story at Imagineering. This is years after the Pixar story was out. And it was kind of random. I can't remember how it came to be, but I just remember getting invited over there and screening Pixar for the Imagineers. And at the end of it, I did a Q and&A, and he said, Leslie, when are you going to do the Imagineering story?
00:42:19
Speaker
And I said, well, you tell me, but um you tell me, Marty, I would love to do it. So it's kind of similar to John Lassiter asking me to tell their story. It was now as Imagineers seeing the Pixar story asking me to tell their story. And that led to about a course of a year or so, Marty and I back and forth on email, back and forth on phone.
00:42:40
Speaker
talking about what is the story of Imagineering, and I really had the great um honor to be emailing with Marty. I mean, I still go back and look at our emails together. I'd send him a draft of an outline of what the story could be, and based on our conversation, and then he would come back and say, this is great, but no, you got this it didn't quite hit this right. This is what really happened and this is the story that really needs to be highlighted. And he was very much about telling the honest truth about Imagineering and what were the low points that that really affected the business. And so that was actually great for me to know that he was open to, not open, but wanting to tell the real highs and lows of the of the company.
00:43:23
Speaker
And he was president, he former president. and So um so that was cool. And that just that led to ultimately ah Bruce Vaughn, who was president at the time. And he said. We want to hire you to to to do the film. Can you give us a budget? So I gave him a budget for what I thought would be like a 90 minute film, maybe shot over like and ah you know a year or something.
00:43:49
Speaker
and delivered in you know a year, a year and a half, something like that. And then they came back to me and said, actually, no, we wanna hire you for like five years and we want you to document all over the world and go to all the parks and chronicle the what is happening over the course of these coming years. And the only way you can do this is to is to follow each project and and just see where it's going and interview the people during the process as they evolve, as it starts to build, including Shanghai Disneyland.
00:44:16
Speaker
So I think I took maybe so anyway, cut to much bigger budget, many years, many trips to different countries, different parks. A lot of people I interviewed over 200 imagineers. um And it was just like a dream project. You know, I basically got to relive my youth as an adult now as a filmmaker and going back to some of the places that my family would go and behind the scenes of Walt Disney World, where I grew up kind of not well, Epcot to like just.
00:44:45
Speaker
I just would walk through somewhere and go, God, I remember being back here with my dad or my grandmother, you know, like when we were back here together as a family or whatever. And it just felt really special to be filming in Epcot or filming in Walt Disney World or and then going to Shanghai six times. I think it was um from dirt to opening day and got to know a lot of the team. I mean, the Bob Weiss really welcomed me.
00:45:10
Speaker
he was head of Shanghai Disneyland at the time. And he really introduced me to so many people and just said, tell the story, just go. you know So like I couldn't have felt more welcomed and trusted. And it really was a fun experience. And then to put that together, you know we started editing maybe three years in and I brought in my colleague, Mark Catalina. I had never worked with him before. And then he He took all this. He's a huge Disney fan. And he's like, oh, my God, this is like a dream project. So he then started working with me to to map out what the story structure is, because at this point we were dealing with an outline, but we we didn't have like a thorough story yet because we hadn't really gotten into all the transcripts and pulled stuff yet. It was just content acquisition at this point.
00:45:55
Speaker
So we started working together on the story and mapping out what was going to be a 90 minute film of five years worth of content. And there was just no way we could do a 90 minute film. It was just too much. And I said, just go long, you know, just go long, like just do find the material, find the great stories and we'll figure it out now.
00:46:16
Speaker
Disney didn't know I was saying go long. We ended up, we ended up going into Imagineering and there was a ah room in there with all these shelves full of on a VHS tapes and tons of stuff. It's not there anymore. They've now like archived it and put it away and nobody like me at the time could go in and go, hey, can I just put these tapes in a box and bring them to my office and digitize them? You know, and I'll bring them back and I'll take a photo of the box so you know what, I'm i'm bringing it back the way I got it. Like that doesn't happen anymore.
00:46:45
Speaker
now it's since the success of the Imagineering story now everything is very much like check it check it out and you know log it blah blah blah but I mean we found so much material in those VHS tapes it was unbelievable early tiki bird tests you know um how to feather a tiki bird like all these making up videos training videos and stuff and you'd see all these great people and um you know And so it it became the archival process became just as big as the interview process of just going through thousands of hours of footage, literally, and then bringing it in and deciding, are we going to use it or not? And so we would develop a whole section on like how to do black paint or like, you know, whatever, or how to do a ride system, how to
00:47:31
Speaker
How do they do the right system for pirates or on a mansion or what have you. And we we do a whole like section on that based on the archival footage and the interviews we had. And then we realize, you know, what it's just two in the weeds. We got to pull back. You know, we just kind of topically move through that a lot quicker. So we built out a lot more content that.
00:47:49
Speaker
we would ever be able to put into a 60-minute film. And finally, we decided to break what we had into episodes and and say, let's just see if we can do this as a multi-series. Because you know Netflix was obviously successful, and we didn't know Disney Plus had not launched yet. We didn't know about it. We didn't know it was in discussions. We had no idea. But we showed the six-hour cut to Bob Weiss and the Imagineers, the top to top folks in Imagineering.
00:48:15
Speaker
And they pitched it to ABC at the time. steve ABC would be interested in ABC said, actually, no, we're not interested because it's not what we would put on the air. However, you should know that we are that Disney is about to launch Disney Plus.
00:48:30
Speaker
and they're about a year away. And so we went on hold and then when Disney Plus basically came on board and their executives came in, we then met with them and we showed them our six hour cut and they were like, oh my God.
00:48:45
Speaker
what do you need to finish it? And so they basically gave us the finishing funds to go back in and actually get specific things that I really wanted that we didn't get yet, which was like Bob Gurr going up into the Matterhorn and, you know, going on the the Autopia cars and behind the scenes stuff with Imagineers. And that's the whole next phase we did to finish it up. And then we were able to integrate the stuff that we had already cut and, we you know, trim that down and just really finessed it at the very end there.
00:49:15
Speaker
Well that's it for part one of our conversation with Leslie Iwerks. Be sure to check back next week to catch the rest of our conversation. Thank you for joining us for another enchanting episode of Sharing the Magic. We are the Thinking Fans podcast, an entertainment show where education and entertainment collide each week. We bring you whimsical interviews with Disney guests who share their magical experiences and reveal how they are woven into the Disney fabric. Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay updated on our latest episodes.
00:49:46
Speaker
Spread the word and let your friends know they can tune in wherever they enjoy their favorite podcasts. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and ex, formerly Twitter, at at sharing the magic pod. Until next time, keep sharing the magic.