Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that sweeps you away into the enchanting realms of Disney. Each week, we're joined by a special guest, be it a magician casting real-life spells of wonder, or a Disney expert revealing hidden secrets in the heart of the happiest place on Earth.
Speaker: Together, we'll venture down glittering paths, uncovering tales of daring heroes, legendary places, and whimsical wonders that make Disney sparkle.
Speaker: So prepare to be enchanted, delighted, and transported to a place where dreams dance, fairy tales breathe, and the magic is real. Hey friends, and welcome back to Sharing the Magic, where we lead you down a secret path uncovering tales of heroes, legendary places, and whimsical wonders that make Disney unique.
Speaker: I'm Josh, and I'm beyond excited about today's episode because we have a truly incredible guest joining us. She's one of the creative forces behind some of Disney's most visual, stunning and emotionally powerful films.
Speaker: But I'm not going to get into who we have just yet. We have a couple of people that were here sharing the magic with my co-host tonight, and we are going to down the list and introduce them and say hello.
Speaker: Brian, how are you? I'm doing great. I'm here from the Jersey Shore, and I'm really excited about this episode. Right. And Lisa and Mike. Good evening. Hello.
Speaker: Tuning in from Indianapolis. I'm very excited to ah speak with our guests tonight. I know that the movies have been monumental, at least some of the work, some of the shorts, some of those things that our guest has been a part of have been monumental in my children's lives. So very excited. Absolutely.
Speaker: And hey, Dawn, how are you? i am Dawn, I'm from Houston. Nice to meet you. I'm excited to hear basically the scope of your job and how it works with animation and learn a little nugget just to take with me for the remaining part and our listeners as well.
Speaker: So thank you and welcome.
Speaker: And last, but certainly not least, Jeff, how are it you buddy? I'm good. And I don't want to spoil who our guest is, but if you know, Hebrew, will.
Speaker: So there's an olive, there's a somac, there's a noon and a tate. And so if you can read Hebrew, that's, that's, that's our guest. That's the, those are the, at least.
Speaker: You can piece that together. Nobody will know that. but And that leads me to introduce a legendary producer, Miss Osnat Shur. Do i have that right? You do. Perfect. Fantastic. Welcome to Sharing the Magic. We are thank you but so glad that you are here and hanging out with us tonight.
Speaker: Thank you. This is going to be fun. Yeah, well we're we're super excited. And we always like to start these episodes with um kind of finding out where your love for Disney originated.
Speaker: Did you have a certain moment where you were, where you had something happen that wanted to guide you down this path? or Or where did that love first come from? That's really good question. I grew up all over the world. I'm an airline kid and I'm from a family that ah that comes from what was then known as British Mandatory Palestine, now knowns known as Israel. um And so I wasn't as exposed to Disney as kids growing up in America back then. We weren't all watching the same things. In fact, it would take years for a movie to come to some of the places I grew up in, like Turkey and Africa.
Speaker: um But there were a couple of things. There was the Jungle Book. Yes, the original Jungle Book, people in that old. And that was super important and pivotal and the music and the songs that just made me fall in love with something.
Speaker: And then honestly, I got into live action. I was in, um I was doing documentaries, mockumentaries. I was doing a lot of um museum shows, live television, um things, different things.
Speaker: And bizarrely stumbled. I did some animation, but not a lot. And bizarrely stumbled into um getting an incredible job at Pixar Animation Studios, running their shorts group, which was, it was fun. It was like, if you think of the, of Pixar, was like, At the time, the big cruise liner making a movie. We were the speedboat that's making 5,000 things along the way. Theme park rides and museum shows and original shorts and DVD stuff. And I started a documentary team there. We did behind the scenes stuff. like Just a lot of really super fun stuff.
Speaker: So I discovered my true love for animation by working in it. I came that was hired because I'd done a lot of production and and I can run a production and and I did some animation, but the truth is that i learned it pretty lucky, I guess, learning it at Pixar at its height. But I came in as we were going to about the last year of Nemo.
Speaker: So I fell love with it from within it. And then that led to to being at Disney Animation Studios because it was sort Pixar will and Disney became one.
Speaker: and um and I continued to love it more and more by working on it. Making animation, it's like one of the coolest things you can possibly do, even though it's insane and there's a lot of work and hundreds of people with just insane skills, way bigger than your own.
Speaker: It's really, really an amazing medium. It includes all the mediums. And so that's why it's so classic. That's why we all love it so much, I think. So I could go on, but getting to make your your first my first animated feature with John Musker and Ron Clements, let me come on.
Speaker: That's luck. that's That's just pure luck. Now you mentioned a ton of work and I have one, have one question that i want to get knocked out.
Speaker: um And then i'm going to pass it on to somebody else, but ah I own my own martial arts school. And so we study in Okinawan style martial arts called Goji room. So I find movies that are so deeply rooted in culture And the sense the authenticity of that culture, um crazy impressive to me.
Speaker: So what does that research process look like? And how do you kind of ensure that you're honoring those cultures that are being represented? Because I've got to imagine that's got to one hardest, more challenging parts is that trying to figure out who you get to bring on. and Or do you just kind of relinquish that to them and let them kind of help guide your process?
Speaker: How does that work? Well, that's a great question. And you you guys just don't be too polite to throw me off my soapbox if I go on too long about this, because it's very close to my heart. Oh, please. and i It's both hard and so natural do ah collaborate with people with lived experience of a story you're trying to tell.
Speaker: and animation is the most collaborative. It's a total team sport. You can't do anything by yourself. ah You know, whatever, 400 crew by the time we were at the height of it on Moana. i So extending that collaboration at the very heart of the film to include people with the expertise, the knowledge, the love of the culture is really big. For me on Moana, I think one of the things I'm proudest of is that not only was it about the movie, I think we helped change the how Disney works with cultural collaborations. And I'm really proud of that because it's a big ship.
Speaker: and So it starts with research, yes. And by the time you're going somewhere, again, it's Disney and it was nice to have the budgets where you can take people to the field and do it well.
Speaker: I'm working at an independent studio now and this you know you you have to work at work it at it differently. But the goal, once we went, it was deeply researched. we were it was not a boondoggle, even though we were in Tahiti and Samoa and Fiji and these gorgeous places. There was...
Speaker: The deep cultural immersion, the people that we'd found to work with were the people who were really connected into the culture. Now, when we're talking about the Pacific Island cultures, these are indigenous cultures in places that have been colonized for a very long time.
Speaker: And so their histories have been reinterpreted. They're originally oral cultures that have then been written down and we only believe the written word, but the oral cultures have a different way of of of talking story and of... of of um conveying what they're thinking. so the my tattoo research, every tattoo design went through a tattoo master who was 12th generation tattoo master. His family is one of the families that invented tattoos because they were invented Samoa.
Speaker: And we just we found by young and also able to see that we're not making a documentary. I mean, the ocean talks, you know, it's a Disney film. But to find that true cultural what could be what would convey.
Speaker: um Like our island of Tefititika, that is not from, it's our own story, we invented it. But it sits comfortably and truthfully within the way the people of the Pacific Island see nature and the relationship to nature and how it's alive and how you have to give to it. Everything you receive, you give back in the same measure, all those things.
Speaker: I think for me, finding out about the navigations in the Pacific Islands and how they'd been denied and meeting people who navigate that way today, like Nainoa Thompson in Hawaii who helped bring back the Hawaiian culture, they're getting there like using this science of observation of the stars and the winds and the and the currents and and the birds.
Speaker: That's alive. And that was a responsibility we wanted to make sure the whole crew felt. This is a living culture. We're not telling about Greek gods from some history you know fiction book or or historical book. This is alive and important.
Speaker: And so we've made sure that the conversation always went on. People came and spoke to the whole crew. i Groups that needed to, who were doing lighting or doing animation, went and and and spent time in the islands.
Speaker: We brought back a script. We did table reads in Samoa, in New Zealand, in Tahiti, and We got notes. We addressed those notes.
Speaker: That's an important part of it. I think one of the things that people said to me in the islands when we went back was people always come and they will will include you. We want to tell a story and we never see them again.
Speaker: You guys kept coming back. And so we know we can trust you. And that was really, really, really important. So what do you do? I think you honestly and authentically believe that this is an important conversation to have.
Speaker: You find people who understand some of that translation. There was always a lead on Moana as well as on Rod and the Last Dragon. We did a lot of that as well. An anthropologist from the region who understands and can work with us to go, okay,
Speaker: ah this is how this would be, or here's a respectful way to do this, or here's how a respectful young girl would take off her shoes without using her hands before she goes into the inner sanctum of Raya.
Speaker: It's how are those things done? And in the day-to-day, you do them. There's a video off of the our dancers' phone for the animation department to redo the shot because the shoes were messy and that looks like disrespect. So I guess you have to believe that it's important, not just, you know, take something off a to-do list.
Speaker: And... I also believe as a storyteller that the more so truly insightfully specific you can get, the more you strike something universal that ah that touches us all.
Speaker: some Somehow it seems like a dichotomy, but it's not. It's true because you touch something true to us all. And... um and all of that without getting too precious, right? You meet people in the Pacific Islands, the elders, and they're funny and they're sometimes raunchy and it's not all like too precious and to be real, you know what i mean?
Speaker: So to find that balance um and to not let it tie you up because you're not doing a documentary either, not to be afraid of the conversation, i think, yeah.
Speaker: yeah It's a topic that's very, very close to my heart, as you can tell. um And I feel honored, honestly, to have gotten the opportunity to meet some of these amazing people in the islands and many have stayed friends.
Speaker: They come, they stay here when they're in the Bay Area. So, yeah.
Speaker: that That, I mean, I don't know how to respond to that. I feel when I saw Moana, this is how, this is a good recap to me just personally, right? um um'm not I'm from Myrtle Beach. I'm Irish.
Speaker: um I mean, I loved that movie. And it was like this universal feeling of like, okay. I mean, I felt for an hour and a half that was part of this.
Speaker: you know, part of this journey too, which, I mean, I, I, I love that. And I love Riot too. that Both those movies were fantastic um and in my opinion. And Brian, I think you have something for, for Riot, don't you? ah Yeah, yeah it a um just a little bit of an analogy, but then a question, too.
Speaker: I'm a father. I'm a father of twin girls. I've been raised raised by a single mom. I have three sisters. And so I love my children to be able to see strong female characters. And I think that's one of the things that, um you know, growing up with them, I like that. And and I see that they like that.
Speaker: And they they um definitely attach themselves to Moana. They love Moana. it's you know that that i mean Moana to me is is a family is a family movie. that we we we it's really grown My family's grown with that.
Speaker: And we all love Raya. We all feel, Raya could be a Marvel movie. That's how cool it is, in my opinion. And and so riot is I think Raya is so well done.
Speaker: It is very, very, very, very underestimated. And I'm just trying to understand, um why do you think it's not represented well in the parks? Why is that that IP not available?
Speaker: Why do we not see the characters? Why do we not see that anywhere? Is that is it maybe because of the timing, because of the pandemic? and Yeah, we came out in the pandemic. And um so we came out with a bit of a whimper.
Speaker: And ah I mean, honestly, we were we were reviewing shots at home. we were we We came in and there were six of us in the mixed stage sitting 20 feet from each other with masks on just to listen.
Speaker: um And just to say the Disney animation crew is that good that we would sometimes approve shots and then animation shots and blocking. And they were so they felt so trusted because we all had to trust each other in the pandemic.
Speaker: But yeah, I think that... um I think it's timing. There's two things. One is timing and the other, there is something about musicals that has sticking power in a way, especially if it's a good one.
Speaker: And, you know, so what's not to love about a combination of Lin-Manuel Miranda, Pataya, Fouai, and Mark Mancina, but... um I think the main thing is the pandemic. We didn't get that lift that you get of being released, you know, the box office lift and the all the partnerships and the franchise, the thing that Disney does so well.
Speaker: I was doing one of producer checks until I left, which was six years, seven years after the movie came out until I left Disney, came back to the Bay. um We read ice shows and books and 40 some titles of books and ah just you name it.
Speaker: And with Raya, not having that first spark that starts you off into that world of the franchises and the kind of ah the character being that beloved, um it then doesn't you know doesn't roll out. And I can't tell you how many people I meet that have never seen it I spend a lot time trying to get people to watch it. Thank you. We ask about certain movies. We like you. We ask about certain movies and we say, what are the ones that I should watch that haven't seen? I bring that up all the time.
Speaker: If you haven't seen that, you have to see it. um Yeah, we we we approached it differently. We started off with it feeling like we were we were going for almost like a Clint Eastwood kind of character in a female.
Speaker: It was our thing. And then at some point you realize, okay, you can't actually have that as your protagonist because you kind of need to feel with her.
Speaker: But she was some of that. And... it but It was such a tumultuous time here that all of that is what we wanted to put in there, what what but the kids were thinking about. And we created those creatures, basically that thing that sucks the energy out of you, basically. It's kind of zombie-ish, I know.
Speaker: And we would call it as for ourselves before the pandemic, like the plague or something. we wanted it to be that neutral. And then suddenly the pandemic hits and it becomes even more timely and um so important because it's like, it's what should put us all together.
Speaker: It's like, this is what needs to bring us together. And so um it it was very it It was emotional for all of us. And then I think also when we zeroed in, we didn't zero in entirely in the world of culture.
Speaker: ah We zeroed into Southeast Asia and found, did a lot of research of what are the things that that are in common as design principles, as the Naga dragon, as things like that with our anthropologist.
Speaker: And my writer grew up in Malaysia, my head of story grew up in Thailand. Our other writer didn't grow up in Vietnam, but his parents did. met in a refugee camp here. um our We had Indonesians on the team, we had Balinese dancers. So it like brought in the shared experience.
Speaker: And it was always fun when they'd go, was your lunch waiting for you under one of those things when you got home too? And we'd find those, so all these things that were ah that they grew up with in common.
Speaker: So a lot went, and the writer, the second writer, Vietnamese one, Kui, turned out to also be a martial art. artist who had actually choreographed martial arts. And so we got into which martial arts we're using and why and when and with each character and what it said about their character.
Speaker: Anyway, we went deep and i really, really am proud of that film. You should buy i should be. you know and yeah he but Even the scenery is amazing. i lived I lived in that area for a few years for work. and um you know I got to experience that. and The scenery was amazing.
Speaker: yeah I really feel that what Disney should do now is re-release it as a new Marvel. and People will be like, oh, because it fits it would fit in right in with some of these Marvel cartoons that go on. mom I really think it would be be awesome. but It was wonderful. and I do you know thank you and everybody who worked on it.
Speaker: um My family, I could tell you, it really really does enjoy it.
Speaker: We did get a character in the parks briefly now after came out, at the end of the pandemic. there was She has a spot.
Speaker: She's still there sometimes because people send me photos. Araya and she's... Get the area. Some part of the nature. can You should look it up.
Speaker: there and But Moana has that amazing thing. I don't know if anyone's been. i have it the way of water. Yes. yes oh i get designed but She needed something. She needed something very big. and yeah you know I'm glad she has something. She needed something very big. yes We wanted to be educational about water. We thought that's wonderful. It's awesome.
Speaker: Plus, they make such cool stuff. I mean, that's imaginary. It's so fun.
Speaker: Yeah, we were able to go on the um cast member preview to but attraction at Epcot. And I remember just the first time seeing it. We actually, our cast member friend that but took us through, um it was fantastic. It was during the day.
Speaker: and then we went at night. and And it looks so beautiful at night. So i'm i'm I'm very pleased with that um attraction from Rolando. We will have to go back there because we got the absolute worst picture with Te Fiti because the sun was right in our eyes.
Speaker: Okay, you have to go back. I have to go. I mean, I saw all the we tried out all the things in the water that you can play music on all that that in in Glendale, but I never actually um haven't been back that way.
Speaker: But yeah, we'll all have to go back. I'm in on the whole Moana thing and the cultural representation of it. ah My first introduction. Well, So Dwayne Johnson was one of my first introductions to Samoan culture way when I was younger.
Speaker: ah How much collaboration did you have with him? Because I know that his heritage on his Samoan side is very big for him. and I know that he's kind of picked up with the second one and then the live action coming out next year.
Speaker: ah How much influence or I shouldn't say influence, collaboration ah with him on making sure, you know, get this and that. added in to to make the representation of some own culture ah with the movie just right?
Speaker: ah Good question. First of all, he was a joy to work with. He's just a lovely human being. um i honestly did not have a plan B for Maui. In my head, Maui was Dwayne all along. And, you know, like, oh, what if you said it? So no, I can't. You just can't say no.
Speaker: um And the truth is that just before we get to the Samoan part, that um the way it was written, nobody else could have pulled it off. Like when Dwayne did it, you liked him. Anybody else sounded a little bit like ah you know bit about a little for themselves.
Speaker: He just is so charming and he is charming like that in real life. um We brought him on quite early. He signed on. He was all over it and into it. um we He looked at the design. there's there There's an influence in the design from his grandfather, was a wrestler, obviously, as you know.
Speaker: His mother, who is absolutely lovely, who is Samoan. We met a few times. He came to the... When we were doing one of the recordings, when he was doing his haka to open the gate. And...
Speaker: and um it's it's Maori, not Samoan, but his mother grew up partially in New Zealand and also speaks Maori. And she kept, every time he did it, she kept like ah correcting his his pronunciation. It was adorable. And he's like, you know, take five. And she's like,
Speaker: And he's like, mom, it's the sweetest thing, that the sweetest relationship. and So we were the ones bringing in the scholars and he was bringing in both the the love of it, the lived experience and also learning from people so that um the Haka person then also worked with him on the next film he was on and had some Haka.
Speaker: um Our dance choreographer who, who ah she does Tahitian as well as Hawaiian hula as well as Samoan war dance was the choreographer on on the live action as well, which DJ's producing with his company.
Speaker: i So he brought an enormous amount of love and authenticity to it, but also he's a hard worker. And he had practiced really hard for the song when we recorded it in Miami.
Speaker: And Lin-Manuel came down and we it was he was ready. and um Yeah, he's a really hard worker. He does not take anything for granted. And he's always happy to whatever I would ask him to do, a video to thank the crew and cheer them up because we have another year or whatever it was. He was always up for it because it and that's I think this Amoan side as well as growing up in Hawaii, that aloha of like everybody's in this. He's he's that definitely that kind of person. Yeah, it was an honor and a pleasure you working with him.
Speaker: I have a quick question. So as a female, of course, I love the female protagonist. And I wanted to ask you as a female producer, did you feel like you could relate more to this? Did it excite you? How did you get into that character more based on being a strong, i call it female hero?
Speaker: um That's one question. And then my other thing is I have to comment for the listeners they can't see, but she has it. it You can tell about it, but it looks like a beautiful ocean behind you.
Speaker: Is that a frame from anything or what reference is that? So those are the, it might look like a frame from Moana and you know, that might be, oops.
Speaker: Um, but I love the ocean. I love blues. You could tell I wear blues. A lot of the spent a lot of hours, Working on the colors in Moana, we used the depths of the blue and the turquoise, just like when you look from above in the islands, to to indicate how deep we are, where we are in the ocean.
Speaker: um So it was visually for me, Moana was a really, it it was everything so beautiful. and And the islands do look like that. You think you're sort of in somewhere not real and it's very real and the people are so real and so cool.
Speaker: and
Speaker: So ah the female protagonist, yeah, oh it's key to me. That's kind of all I do. um And I think that there's a lot of ground to make up in our representation.
Speaker: in movies, but not just in movies. I feel like things would be running much smoother in the world it was run by some women. But um so there you go.
Speaker: But I think with Moana, it's one of the things that made me fall in love with the film. i was um invited to join. We moved down to Southern California to join Disney Animation as the VP of Development.
Speaker: ah I got what was there to master over there. We were sort of changing things that felt more like Pixar and 11 directors, nine shows in development. And then Ron and John asked me to produce Moana with them. And it was I loved all the films in development, but that one was the most exciting.
Speaker: um And so. um So.
Speaker: The first time we saw her posed People don't know this, but usually the first time you're posing a character in animation is probably going to be a marketing shot, you know, for D23 or for somewhere.
Speaker: And, um...
Speaker: She had been posed like a Disney princess. And if you are a woman, you know what I mean, that like the hip goes out to the side, the other thing goes out to the other side. Nobody can stand like that. You'll follow her. i and And the directors and I, we do we'd all talked about this. We agreed that we wanted her to have substantial ankles and, you know, be able to have internal organs.
Speaker: And I mean, she's a, you have to be really, really, really strong with those canoes. You have to, yeah it's it's worth trying, but you're holding this giant thing against the force of the ocean to keep direction.
Speaker: And so we looked at that and he was like, All right, let's have the women here stand up and stand in that. And then we all stood in the and in the Hatha Yoga warrior pose. It's stable and you can't knock a person over. So we talked about that a lot and how we give her strength, but keep it graceful and beautiful. there's there's no So that was it was really important, but it was also something that developed in the script as we moved through it.
Speaker: um The first version of the script, she had seven big brothers. She was the youngest. She was the only one who was good at sailing, but she was going to be left behind because she's a girl. And we talked a lot about that feeling outdated in a weird way.
Speaker: um giving Giving her so much more agency. and how do we, but how do we stop what people tend to do, which is ah um infantilize,
Speaker: ah especially young women, needs help, needs to be shown this, needs to be saved here, needs to be given that there. how do we not do that? And yet again, it wasn't just because, yeah you know, I get asked by press when the film came out, how come she doesn't have a love interest? Ooh, that's so, that's so radical. And I'm like, she's 16 and she's saving the world. Like who's got time to date?
Speaker: You know, aside from- The dam's still in distress, right? Exactly. She has no dam's still in distress. She's saving her world. And ah do I wish ah a wonderful partner for her someday?
Speaker: Of course I do. oh Some way. Everybody should have that. But want so. Yes.
Speaker: And she's 16. So um it's something that's very important to me. It was important with Raya and with Raya and Mari as well, who I think just like such an underrated character.
Speaker: And um it's important in anything I work on. I'm i'm now with the studio called Baobab Studios. It's an independent studio here in the Bay Area. We do games as well as film TV. I'm working on a TV series.
Speaker: end up at Disney Plus. and and And it's got really strong female characters. And sort of what drives me to still keep telling stories um is to be able to shift representation, whether it's cultural, whether it's, um you know,
Speaker: Other women, other girls, that that so that we have a variety. My great niece used to dress as Moana. She's got mocha skin. She's got big, curly hair. And every morning, instead of the little princess dress she used to have, which was cute, she was in this like warrior pose, and it made me so proud.
Speaker: I love that. That's, that's really great. I love that you're changing the dynamic and, you know, a little bit at time, little at a time. That's all you have to One foot in front of the other, right?
Speaker: That's great. What, what has been your favorite movie to influence that same female protagonist? Is it Moana or do you feel like, cause I feel like Moana had just from hearing you and listening back and listening, I feel like that has really changed you also.
Speaker: Absolutely. Absolutely. i think, um yeah, Moana was life changing. It was also ah labor of love. And it was also I discovered a a whole culture I didn't know that much about, which is huge. I mean, i grew up an airline kid. I was traveling all over. the We flew free. We were always flying somewhere.
Speaker: um And I'd make documentaries and spend time with traditional cultures. Yeah, it changed me as well. Part of it was her strength, but part of it was just the the understanding of the world of the islands and of what it means in a culture when they say that the ocean connects us rather than separates us and how different we think.
Speaker: and how much damage we're doing by thinking differently. And when they think that the nature is the alive, they come to it with respect, whatever that means. So all these things were very, but I resonated a lot with them.
Speaker: And I do think some of the learnings went into Raya. So I'm totally in agreement with Brian. I think the world needs to watch Raya. Let's re-release it. Let's let's circulate a petition.
Speaker: It's definitely on my list. Absolutely. Have you, just to go off a little bit from the um producing aspect, have you been to the parks and what is your favorite, if I might ask?
Speaker: Yes, I've certainly been to the parks. And when I was at Pixar, I was overseeing the animation for the park. So we made the Toy Story Mania and we made the Nemo Submarine animation. And we did we did a bunch of those really fun animations.
Speaker: It's so fun because it's so complicated with architecture and safety in real life, you know, not just animation. um
Speaker: Oh, favorites. That's hard because I haven't been to the way of water yet. I have a feeling that's going to become my favorite because of that gorgeous. I know you're being rubbernecked. It's like question versus this like I know you're being pulled all over the place. oh i I had a lot of fun working on Toy Story Mania and um yeah, so I got good at it. So I liked it.
Speaker: That's a great attraction for all of us. And I'm going to pull you, I'm going to pull you and different, I'm going to rubberneck you again, where it's like, question. No worries. going to go from like mathematical, tell me your story, to what's your favorite attraction, what's your favorite color? And now we're going to go, now I'm going to go even, even deeper, because my questions, you said something earlier that I thought was really, really special.
Speaker: You said you're a storyteller. And around here, we always say story shapes life. Story shapes life. And so I'm a big story person. So I'm going to shift this this here conversation to where here's what I want to know. Here's i have two questions. I've been thinking about them like you all all during this time. Actually, before.
Speaker: OK, here's question one. And this is about you. What lessons from a character like Moana or Rhea that you needed to learn personally?
Speaker: I could say it again. What lessons? What lesson from a character or a story like Moana or Rhea that you maybe you watch it and you go, huh, I needed to.
Speaker: i I need that in my life. Do you have any of those kind of feelings? Yeah, I mean, there are a few and they were sort of I was there in the writing of it. So it's not sort of surprising me when I'm watching it. Yeah. Just a contemplation. Yeah. that's There are a few things I think.
Speaker: It's a great question. I think ah one of them is that we were. At a time when our country is so polarized and and and we don't seem to understand each other,
Speaker: um In Raya, we were looking for the key to collaboration. And it was very personal because we all wanted to know what that is. How do we all come together? Like, how do we get so polarized and how do we all come together? We're all human. We all care about the same things, the children, nature, life, air.
Speaker: um And so we spent a lot of time thinking about what is the first step when your enemies, they were enemies. um and Mari caused her father you know her father's death.
Speaker: what is how do you What does that mean to collaborate? What does it mean to come together? How are we how is that not generalized? And how does that get real?
Speaker: And so we spend a lot of time talking about that and arrived for us that the first step towards coming together is creating trust. it's going to be an act of trust.
Speaker: Well, that's just real. we're not going to convince each other. We're not anything. And so we realized that the film is about trust. Right. And how do you find that trust? And um yes, it ended up being said about 17 times in the film because it's a family film and you don't want leave anyone behind. That's the feedback we got.
Speaker: But um it really was about like that moment between Raya and Sisu, where she says to her, you know, maybe maybe you have to trust it. you know make Maybe you have to extend that trust in order to heal rather than wait for them to change.
Speaker: And so I think that was big because we were all thinking about that. And we're all still thinking about it. And that's timeless. Wow. Okay. I got to go back and watch it because boy, the polarize, you know, that is so that's profound.
Speaker: That's just profound. And it I think from Moana, um, we're really, it's, it's, we dreamt, Rondon and I of doing our climax and song.
Speaker: It's very hard to do really hardly ever been done. I think that song of her coming towards this hurting, angry creature. And we heard from a lot of women that um feel like they've been perceived as their anger rather than, you know, as as as ah as a monster rather than somebody hurt from which anger arises.
Speaker: And I think her going up to that creature in a shot that looks like this, islam ah in in a size differential that you can't, for the life of you, figure out how you're going to shoot, right?
Speaker: Little person, Big Island. All of that, all the issues that it had, coming towards her and saying, this is not who you are. you know who you are. And it was it's a really profound thing. And we got a lot of letters from people. And I sent a note to Lin-Manuel and I'm like, wow, look what you've done.
Speaker: And he's like, yeah, growing up with my mama shrink. Like it was it wasn't, he's he's very conscious of of ah what he's writing in there. i think that was a big, that's a big reminder for all of us to not mistake the hurt in someone that's coming at us.
Speaker: for anger and for something we have to fight and take down and and over, you know, kill. I think that was huge. and And I think thinking about that as nature, we've taken something, we took the heart from inside you, we we need to restore something. I think that's also really beautiful.
Speaker: um That's wonderful. Can I, okay, but here's my other question. As a storyteller, what's the story you haven't gotten to tell yet, but hope you can, so you still can?
Speaker: What's the story you haven't gotten to tell yet? whole you can I can't tell you it, can I? Well, no, okay. okay know how Well, i'm I'm working on a TV series right now that I really love. And the only thing I'll say about it is that it involves witches and other cultures and things like that. And I really love it because I...
Speaker: the There are a number of stories. There's stories of ah friendship and sisterhood and heroism between women that plays out differently than between men that we haven't gotten to see because we haven't told the stories to this day or whatever, 2% of the directors. It's just, it's different, not in a bad way, in a good way. I think there's a balance of of both that i think we need as a world. and So I have many stories like that.
Speaker: I have stories, um Also just stories about, they almost always will have to do with potential of a perception shift on time or on our relationship to nature usually or to each other. So but love fantasy and i i love a good action adventure fantasy with humor, which is sort of what both of you just tried to be.
Speaker: It's sort of my happy place. If there was some book I would have wanted to have written, it's probably Lord of the Rings or something. You know, that. Like these deep worlds with layers and layers. That's a good answer. i love Lord of the Rings.
Speaker: um you know It's a beautiful like deep. Yeah. I mean, you know, he sat for 10 years at in in in his room and wrote this. We're trying to do stuff like that for TV in three weeks. um yeah, i like I like for stories to go deeper. i think what I'm interested in is characters and more than anything. But in animation, I also like a good spectacle, something big and and beautiful. and well wonderful. Such a great answer. Thank you so much for answering my questions.
Speaker: For your questions. Thank you.
Speaker: I loved the size of Maui just because yeah I'm a big, I'm a big dude. And I love like the non chiseled six pack ab Greek God. Look, I've been a big dude. I was like, when I first saw it, I mean, the previous four, was like, Oh, look, Dwayne doesn't look like Dwayne. He look like looks like, it looks like a bigger guy.
Speaker: I love it. Um, dad bod representation that's what it is yeah i mean but when you see yeah what do you think of like but not really actually he's it's still a really hulky it's not really dad he's still it's like power lifter a beautiful yeah yeah you're like a wrestler yeah yeah now i have a i have a question for you that i kind of like to ask stuff like this because I feel like there's a lot of this.
Speaker: ah What's one job in the animation pipeline that you think is like an unsung hero? One? I only get one? One. Can I guess four hundred you can give You can give whatever you want.
Speaker: but But it's typically the... The producer, of course, we're complete. No, I'm kidding. There are a lot of of unsung heroes in animation. It's quite amazing how many people and how many different types of expertise go into this. But I think...
Speaker: We've talked about many of those and behind the scenes things and things like that. The people who still don't get talked about is people who make all that happen. Production management, like every level from PA through honestly, through producer, at least a line producer.
Speaker: Without because animation is made up of gajillion details and and frames and pieces of frames and effects and frames. If it's not held together and if it's not moved through a pipeline in in the right way with happy people that get to be as creative as they need to, but are productive and blah, blah, blah, it won't happen.
Speaker: And so I think that's the one, it's a little underrated and it's actually really creative to manage. It's like herding cats. It's like to manage a bunch of creatives all over the place into a single voice story that has, that holds the unity and and delivers on time and on budget.
Speaker: I'd say those are the, everybody talks about the animators. um Certainly now about some of the technologists and we do have some amazing people. I mean, we had like, these PhDs, their friends are sending the ships to Mars and they're figuring out how to get us curly hair that bounces against itself for Moana and later Moe.
Speaker: So, yeah. um there are there are There are a lot of them, but there's just like all of that held together is the most unsung of them all, I think.
Speaker: Absolutely. lot of moving parts to make this stuff happen. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. does anybody have any questions they want to get off the chest before I keep going? I have a quick question. It's just me being nosy.
Speaker: um So when the whole production is done, I've heard it can take four years for like an animated film. So does the whole cast and everyone involved, ah you know, the voice actors, the animators, you're the producer, everybody involved in all the intricate parts, do y'all sit down and watch this movie together at its completion?
Speaker: And do you have a party like before it's released? I told you just being confused. Yeah, yeah, no, it's fine. First of all, we, as a studio, would have a lot of screenings where we invite different members of the crew and we ask for their notes as well. So everyone who works not just on our movie, but at Disney Animation Studios gets a chance to see it early in storyboards.
Speaker: We do screenings. We do multiple screenings, like six or seven of them. Every three months we do one, we tear it apart. It's a complex system. um We have a wrap party in Days of Abundance. It's kind of slightly over the top in Days of Less Abundance. It's a little less.
Speaker: um The whole studio comes with plus ones. Sometimes cast members will come often, you know, they They're busy, busy, busy and not necessarily living in the l LA area.
Speaker: Ali was at the at the party for Moana for sure and posed with every single crew member who wanted it. She was so impressed with him. She was just such a doll, ah is such a doll.
Speaker: um And we will thank some people Moana because my directors can go on. We did instead, we made a music video of the three of us to a song from Hamilton thanking everybody. We shot this whole weird thing. It was abandoned.
Speaker: Yeah, it's pretty funny. Me, Ron and John rapping. and And then we watched the movie together and then there's a party, there's food, drinks, dancing. We flash mobbed the wrap party with a haka.
Speaker: um The crew just kind of showed up on on the stage and we started doing this haka that was written for us by our haka person and blessed by the aunties and uncles in museum Zealand.
Speaker: So yeah, you have, ah sometimes we you know try to make it a little bit more special, but For Raya and the Last Dragon, and everyone was at home. And it was so sad.
Speaker: And we, you know, there was a little thing of get yourself something yummy that we funded. And we sent everybody a little gift. And part of it was a drink that we invented for Raya and like that kind of thing. We tried to make it fun.
Speaker: ah Photo ops and things like that, but all on Zoom. um So, but yeah, we have a wrap party. And then there's a premiere. The premiere isn't really... Rap Party Wehold, my office. It's the producer and my assistant who's just brilliant and was amazing with me through development and two movies and is now the manager of ah Franchise story at at Disney Animation Studios. She's a real Disney expert. She's wonderful.
Speaker: Anyway, we're the ones doing that stuff. Premiere, that's all publicity. And and the end cast comes. It's usually even in their contracts. um Other people who heard there's some cool thing and I can bring the kids, you know, famous people or whatever.
Speaker: um It was us. So we did a whole thing with with Dwayne and Lynn on stage. And then Ali did a Hulu because she's a Hulu dancer. And you we did all stuff like that outside. And then you do a whole thing on stage with real. mountain Yeah, that's big. That's for press like that. That's.
Speaker: yeah And then it's out. What a great job you have. Yes, it is a great job. I can tell you most of the time you're just fixing things that are broken and teams that aren't working and ah ah budget over ridges and places where we just had a preview and suddenly we're like, oh, we have to add a minute and a minute takes this long to make and um
Speaker: making every all of that work and your cast and and we do have a cast dinner when the movie is ready and show it to them as well if we can, if people are in town.
Speaker: um But it's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of detail, especially when some of your collaborators are like, literally the people that we worked with on some of the sailing on these ah canoes, which in Fiji they call themaka.
Speaker: They were in a village and had to be bussed, but all the generations come for a QNF to the university so we could zoom, so we could talk about, you know, what string you're pulling in order to do what so the animators could animate properly. They don't even have, you know.
Speaker: a generator where they are no power. We did visit with them. I showed them the film about 70% done. was i had a little laptop, a little projector. They had a big, you know, one of those Tupper cloths. They turned it around. It was all in the ocean. is like It was incredible. All generations are there.
Speaker: i mean And we showed them the film. Two-thirds done. And they were really, really happy. We were lucky enough with them to be able to also help them make a canoe, a traditional canoe. They had the traditional canoe making skills, but not the resources. So we were able to help them.
Speaker: Wow. And I bet there's- That's another thing with Disney. Like that's like the ability to give back. Like our our ah Tahitian consultant has become a very dear friend and is an incredible, incredible woman.
Speaker: and Right from the beginning when we talked to her said, my dream is that one day we can translate this film into Tahitian. It's a dying language. Less than 250,000 people still speak it. It's still a French colony.
Speaker: And um what if our kids would come back to learning their language through a Disney movie? Because they love Disney anyway, right? I got fired with it. We got everybody involved. We were able to help fund it. They were did it.
Speaker: And um we went. and Literally, there's no reason for it. Everyone speaks French. It was more of a gesture. And we did it, made it just for the schools. We made thousands of DVDs. And I got to go but the premiere in Tahiti, in Papayatea. And it was one of the most moving experiences of my entire career. I got chills.
Speaker: Oh my gosh. 4,000 people expected 10,000 show up. We're putting up screens everywhere. People are singing their songs along in their language to Moana.
Speaker: ah Meeting the elders are crying and saying, thank you for, it was just like, you we never, you know, you make movies and you never get to experience it with people. This was absolutely incredible. And when we were leaving, and was there and Ron was there. John couldn't come.
Speaker: And when we were leaving, the whole translation crew, and there are these elders who speak the language and speak it well, at the airport, because the Tahitians, that's what they do. If they're you come to visit, they sing you a song. When you're leaving, they sing you a song. Their gift is a song.
Speaker: And so they all stood up and started singing. We know the way in Tahitian. And the whole airport stopped, and everybody started singing along, and we were just... Oh, it was just balling.
Speaker: It was so beautiful. And then they took it around on their traditional canoe to different islands and showed it and did little ocean conservation workshops and showed it to the kids.
Speaker: So we it was incredible to be able to also give back because it's rare.
Speaker: I love that. That just makes the movie, I love it so much more now just by hearing that. um You know, they were saying that, you know, the, I said, how will the Maori and the Hawaiians respond? And Hinano said, well, we are the mother tongue for them. They're Tahiti's homeland for them. And sure enough, a Hawaiian translation was made. These were, these were through the community. A Hawaiian translation was made. Now we did her own part in Hawaiian.
Speaker: still proud of her. And a Maori translation in some of our Maori actors. Um, did their part. So it, it, it, it rippled, it rippled out. It was incredible.
Speaker: And you made that happen. So that's amazing. I was part of it. I'm very proud of that. I was not certainly not alone, but I am very proud of us being able to really connect in that way. And, and, um, we got to go into the school and give them DVDs and meet the kids. And, um, yeah, it was super awesome.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Now, did you have any of... Okay, so you had a lot of support. Was there anybody that was unhappy along the way?
Speaker: was ah Was there like any and battles you had to fight? Among 400, I'm sure I pissed a few people. Yeah.
Speaker: Not really. i i was lucky enough to be working with Ron and John, who have so much confidence, well-deserved confidence since they've made most of the movies most of us grew up on, no matter how old we are.
Speaker: um So they have the confidence to hear a note and recognize it. and go with it, whereas people with less confidence wouldn't.
Speaker: Also, they on their first trip to the islands, they had life transforming experiences. And i know for John, it was sort of sitting in that same place where I showed them the film in Fiji with all the generations there. And it was hymn night and they asked him if he wouldn't mind. And for him, actually, that's very sacred. And there was just something about sitting there with all these generations and the sound of the ocean and there's no electricity. and And they're taking them out on the canoe the next day. And it's hymn night with these Pacific Island harmonies, because the vocal harmonies are very specific to the Pacific Island.
Speaker: And then what they learned from the people they met. So there was zero resistance from them. And I'm a producer. So when we had to make, ah we we had to give something up to do something else. I could work with my team on where we found it.
Speaker: So we didn't, we could really contain it. um And the leadership at the time was very supportive when I brought this idea of the translation to John. It totally supported me on it.
Speaker: So there was a lot of love and support and a lot of ah our our crew got to meet people because we brought them in to talk and to teach everyone to dance, so um Pacific Island dances, and just to kind of immerse in the culture.
Speaker: And so we were all together on the ride. and one. It was great. It was actually really great. At first, I don't think people understood and I talked to our publicity department, just how um it's also an angle, I think. I don't know, but I think.
Speaker: um But I think people felt it. They felt the authenticity image and it moves us. um I didn't to fight. I did not have to fight.
Speaker: Granted, I had to get more money sometimes. Like we had ah the team from Tahiti was visiting. They'd gone to spend time with the Pueblo and then they came and then were with us in Burbank and we're talking about all these things. They're showing us how to weave and how they make the sun visors and just showing us all the stuff. There's a whole group of them.
Speaker: And we show them an image of Maui as he was designed. He was bald. And we shook, scar because Duane is, I guess, out of Maui. And so we show them this and they're like're like, do you think he needs to have hair? And they're course he has to have hair.
Speaker: His mana is in his hair. Mana is their their word for chi or his energy, because he's a demigod. So on the spot, the production designer redesigned him and our hair, which is actually fax, which is actually technical animation and very hard budget, just doubled right there because why want to want, and while we had longer hair as well, but we found, you know, we found ways to make it work, but it was worth doing.
Speaker: That's awesome. That's awesome. No, we, um, Before we wrap up here, okay, um we don't want to take up too much of your time. um We all know that your time is extremely valuable.
Speaker: I have just a few want to play along. I got this idea from Jeff from a few episodes ago. couple rapid fire questions for you. Thanks.
Speaker: that if you want and there's no there's no prize at the would be a high five or something. um umm And I'm going to fire off just a few questions to you just to see, get to know you a bit more ah for our listeners, and then we'll let you get out of here. Unless we got any more questions from you guys.
Speaker: Anybody else have anything? Before we go to that. I did. well i ah You were going to be on this week. I had a few questions that I wanted to ask you. You know, we can sit here and talk for hours about, you know, how, how big, you know, Moana has been and how, you know, how much red didn't get much, you know, love because of the pandemic and everything. But the one thing that I want to talk about, or at least ask you about is how underrated some of the Pixar shorts you've worked on i really are. And my favorite personally is one man band.
Speaker: Yes, it's such a beautiful short. It's probably one of the most and underrated Pixar shorts. um and know We know you did bound in you did jack jack attack and all that. and If you had to pick one that you feel most proud of that you did, ah which one would you have to pick.
Speaker: I would probably have to pick Boundin. It was my first animated film and Bud Luck, he was a real elder in our community. He was responsible for it some of the best Sesame Streets and Ladybug, like all these things. And because of him, Woody is Woody in Toy Story. He designed him. He was before that retrilquist doll.
Speaker: And it was just a real honor to make a film with it. He would say stuff, he came from 2D, so he would say stuff to the animators like, I want baggy, he sounded like a cowboy, I want baggy pants animation. And we're like, what is talking about? And we found it, he knew what he wanted and it was such a personal short. He drew it, he designed the characters, he did all the storyboards, he does the voice, he wrote the song, he played the banjo.
Speaker: And um it was like a a Valentine to Bud getting to make that short with him. And the first time we saw it in properly in a theater was actually in Japan at Studio Ghibli in Japanese.
Speaker: And it was just, yeah. So that I think Bound in stands out for me, even though Jack Jack was super fun. I mean, Brad Bird, come on. What an honor. And yeah.
Speaker: One man band, I think the production design was stunning and the animation was stunning. Yeah, I got to work on Lifted as well. And Gary Rydstrom is a sound genius.
Speaker: And that that's what that short was about. So the shorts were a lot of fun. We knew they they're not a business model. So they're more about like, let's make some cool stuff.
Speaker: but Yeah, I just really don't think they get as much credit as they should. i mean i know. know folks have their favorites, but, man, One Man Band was, it just, it needs to get more love. I thought, it like you said, it was just vaguely stunning and just everything about it is just, it's art.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: All right. Also, just to say one last thing, that was our first collaboration with Michael Giacchino, so... Like I signed him first before the Incredibles, but, and he was a big part of, of one man band as well.
Speaker: We did the music early.
Speaker: ah Okay. Rapid fire it is right. I think so. Is everybody good? Brian, Lisa, Mike, Don? good. Everybody's good? Okay. Now let's just a few.
Speaker: that's and Nothing too crazy. In rapid fire, you can elaborate if you want to. All right. Start off easy. What are three words that you would describe your journey your journey with Disney? Three words to describe your journey with Disney.
Speaker: ah Magic? Have to. Have to.
Speaker: Joy. um
Speaker: And impact.
Speaker: Absolutely. That last one. That was really good. That was really good. Okay. What's your what's a dream location for a Disney story that hasn't been done yet?
Speaker: Bhutan.
Speaker: Is there any Disney scene you wish you could just step into? behind you.
Speaker: but Yeah.
Speaker: Probably the ending of Moana. The ending? Okay. What is a go-to late-night production snack?
Speaker: ah
Speaker: The truth is that it's usually cereal because that's what's available in the kitchen. and But sometimes there's also bread, bread peanut butter, and jam. Oh, yeah. I just got some fresh strawberry jam from one of my buddies who makes it at home.
Speaker: Oh, my God. Nice. That's so good. ah Which is harder, starting a new story or finishing one?
Speaker: Finishing what?
Speaker: I did not see that one going that way. That's pretty cool. Starting is easy. It's fun. You're full of hope and and you have this big idea and it sounds great. And then at the end you have to like actually deliver. the rapid Yeah. um What's the first Disney character you ever connected with?
Speaker: Either as a kid or as an adult.
Speaker: I think it was probably The Jungle Book.
Speaker: was going to say The Vultures. It's probably ugly. it Just because I love that Beatles song. you know What are we going to do? I don't know. Now, is there a Disney villain that you secretly love?
Speaker: Yeah, it's a tough one between Ursula and Shadow Guy, Shadow Man from Princess and the Frog. you know mine, both of them are Ron and John. They're really good at villains.
Speaker: After I saw Mufasa, I mean, I, I kind of fell in love with Scar. I mean, completely just fell in love with his character. That story broke my heart.
Speaker: That's a crazy one. Okay. And then, okay So last one, kind of like the, kind of like one of them before, but a little bit different. What's more exciting first storyboard pitch or final voice recording session?
Speaker: So you're voice recording session. Voice recording sessions are so fun. Animation is so calculated and we have to work so hard and everything matching and all of that. And our only real areas of spontaneity are voice record sessions. And if you cast right, like we do the voices in our screenings, you know, we're doing endless screenings and giving ourselves notes. So I was grandma tallow for a long time. I know all her times by heart, but when finally Rachel came on, like, and and that quality of actor and she was doing her aunties in New Zealand,
Speaker: um it came alive. It's just like something special happens. And so we we we play. We go 30 times through a line. We let the actor, especially as they get into character, come up with their own stuff.
Speaker: And um that's when you start to discover something fresh and you feed that right back into animation. So those are fun. Awesome. Well, now we're where can ah everybody find you? People who are listening to us, where can they but can they find you at? Social media or web page? I'm low key. I work at a studio called Baobab and Baobab Studios. it's We're in the Bay Area. we do We've got Roblox games and TV series and films, all animation, but as well as Webtoons and graphic novel and things like that. So we're right at that intersection.
Speaker: I'm working on a bunch of stuff. I'm co-chief creative officer with Eric Darnell, who did all the Madagascar films. He wrote and directed all Madagascar films. And so in that world, so Baobab on social.
Speaker: can probably be found there. i also do a lot of mentoring and women in animation and activity academy, you know, mentorships. So I'm old enough now where it's really important to sort of give back to you so you can find me.
Speaker: Well, I have to tell you one more thing before let you go. In my industry, I own a martial arts school, and it used to be dominated by Most of my students were boys. And over the past 15, probably 12, 15 years, I have gotten...
Speaker: to the point where I'm completely split 50% girls and 50% boys. And I really think that comes down to the the things that you like you take yourself, for instance, the bodies of work that ah women like you are are doing and helping to get out there.
Speaker: are getting young women and young girls involved into um you know and anything that can be dominated by boys or men. And martial arts was just my unique experience. And I have, i mean, three of my senior instructors are all 17, 18-year-old young women.
Speaker: And um i i love i love seeing that. and And that's, I mean, I don't know about, I i think I speak for all of us here. you have...
Speaker: a passion in your voice and an ability to to just tell a story. i mean, like i feel I feel it like through through how you're how you're speaking, that you genuinely care about what you're doing. And I respect that and i appreciate that. and And I hope, because I have a two-year-old daughter, and I hope that this...
Speaker: ah hope that this wave hope that this wave turns into a tsunami and and keeps on uh keeps on going because she needs stuff like that you know the moanas agree right Right there with you, man.
Speaker: I think it's so important. And it's important just as it's important for boys to see different kind of different kinds of men they can be. We've got a lot of catching up to do as well and in in in seeing ourselves.
Speaker: And that I can tell you for a little brown girl, it's even harder, right? As I've heard from a lot of my friends and their daughters um to see herself represented.
Speaker: And then somehow... You know, if you're very lucky and you have all the right people involved, it appeals to all of us. It's not that that old fallacy that ah maybe it's still true, but that girls and boys will watch boy protagonists, but only girls will watch a ah ah female protagonist. I think that's changing.
Speaker: And I think that the more that changes, the more we we'll find ourselves, you know, working together, which I think is what we want. We have a world to fix for our people. I was going to ask you if you had any final message for our listeners, but I think that's perfect.
Speaker: think that's I think that's the perfect final final message. And we appreciate your time so much. And thank you for hanging out with us and sharing your story. you. Thank you for joining us for another enchanting episode of Sharing the Magic.
Speaker: We have magical conversations that are crafted to your ears. The Edutainment Show, where education and entertainment collide each week. We bring you whimsical interviews with Disney guests who share their magical experiences and reveal how they are woven into the Disney fabric.
Speaker: Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay updated on our latest episodes. Spread the word and let your friends know they can tune in wherever they enjoy their favorite podcasts. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and X, formerly Twitter, at atsharingthemagicpod.
Speaker: Until next time, keep sharing the magic and rattle the stars.
