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Episode 72: Debbie Weiss
30 Plays2 months ago
On this week's episode we had the pleasure of chatting with Disney art gallery owner Debbie Weiss!
To check out Debbie's gallery visit her website HERE
DISCLAIMER: We are not an affiliate of the Walt Disney Company, nor do we speak for the brand or the company. Any and all Disney-owned audio, characters, and likenesses are their property and theirs alone.
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Transcript
Introduction to Sharing the Magic
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that takes you on a journey through the enchanting worlds of Disney. Each week, we're joined by a special guest, whether they're a magician creating moments of astonishment or a Disney expert sharing the secrets behind the magic of the happiest place on Earth. Together we'll uncover the stories, inspirations, and behind the scenes tales that bring these worlds to life. So, get ready to be spellbound and transported to a place where dreams come true.
Meet the Hosts and Mystery Guest
00:00:54
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another great edition of the Sharing the Magic podcast. I'm your wonderful host this week, James Kemp, along with my cast and crew. We have a wonderful guest. I want to talk a little bit about our guest, not mention who she is, and then I want to get into who the crew is this week. This week, we have a wonderful, wonderful full guest who is the owner of an art gallery by the name of the Wonderful World of Animation out of Los Angeles, California. She has her own personal rare collection of Disney art that we'll get into. But before we mention who that is, let's get into the the cast tonight. We want to start with Dawn. Dawn, how are you doing this week?
00:01:31
Speaker
Hi, really good. Nice to meet you. I'm really excited to hear about your collectibles and all the art you have and the different types of art. I love collecting stuff, so hopefully I'll get to see something I like and just might have to get myself something early for Christmas. Thank you.
00:01:50
Speaker
Lisa, you're up next. I know you're not feeling so well. yet You mentioned that and during the pre-show. How's your week been? Hopefully none of your kiddos have gotten you too sick. Hopefully you're, you know, you're well enough to be here. So hopefully we got some good questions. Oh, you know, it was a birthday week. So maybe I just had too much fun. I don't know. I got to see Dawn's son perform this week. So just all kinds of fun. Kidnest, right? is just Too much fun, I think. I think it wore me out.
00:02:18
Speaker
between Halloween, birthdays, and watching Don Sonia, I could understand that being a bit of a whirlwind week. And then we have the man, the myth, the legend. My partner in crime on this podcast, as I like to call him, the one and the only Jeff Shafer. My partner in crime. What do you talk about? Oh, I see how this works. I'm Turner, you're Hooch. Well, I'm no dog here. Get it right.
00:02:43
Speaker
I know, I know. That was really mean. I shouldn't have said that. No, no it was great. It was great. However, jeff how are you doing this week, buddy? I'm good. And I love dogs anyways. And and if everyone knows, I love Goofy. Do you have a favorite Disney character?
00:02:57
Speaker
Well, before you do that, I was going to say maybe we had a Calvin and Hobbes situation going on, but, you know, I, well, that could be very well. I love it. And so do I, I, my mom. Yeah. Okay. I wouldn't even go Calvin and Hobbes. I'm a huge, I've read every, that's where I wanted to be as a kid, a syndicated cartoonist. And I've read, I was obsessed with every Calvin and Hobbes. All right. Later, later on, I discovered voice acting stuff and my great, great cousin, apparently I grew, I grew up with this was.
00:03:27
Speaker
and All my family told me was, uh, was, uh, Pat Butcher. So I grew up watching Disney cartoons and they'd be like, you know, label, sheriff, non-lam, was sort of, but then what I discovered was.
00:03:43
Speaker
that Bill Farmer, who does Goofy, loved Pat Buttrum. And that was his like one of his first voices he ever did. And I said, well, maybe I could do Goofy. And and ah and I bought a Labrador dog a few years back. And he I would sing him Disney songs over and over and over. And and I ran out of songs. So I just decided, well, I'm goingnna i'm going to do him voices. So I was like, oh, evil. And then it then.
00:04:11
Speaker
it progressed into up you know you have a pinch of voice up and then it became like this well i'm goofy okay so i'm gonna welcome you because you're amongst friends and uh in my goofy voice so well i'm happy to have you we're gonna have a fantastic time well i can't wait to hear your story land to hear about your art well i hope you have fun That was pretty cool. So you're asking me about um characters. So for me, vintage wise, I like Cinderella and for Newer, I like Ariel.
Exploring Disney Art with Debbie Weiss
00:04:48
Speaker
It's very interesting. My collection has some kind of quirks to it. So I either like really evil, like Maleficent or super cute, like Bambi. Yeah. And I like quirky things um of the effects. So I like pieces with lightning or water effects or one of the dwarves is blushing. I just find that kind of interesting. So I have some pieces with that kind of element in it. I would call that emotional art. Emotional art. strike i would I would call it striking. Striking.
00:05:21
Speaker
But, you know, like you're on your wall, you're like i change literally you're talking about like the lightning. It's like striking. Like I sometimes you turn the corner you're like, oh, that's striking. You know. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. I like that. Yeah. That that voice that you're hearing, that wonderful voice that you're hearing is that of Debbie Weiss, the artist, the owner. You got to introduce it. We got we got to get her. We we we can't but we can't forget to introduce our guest chef. Sorry. You guys. So after being goofy, you've got to introduce her.
00:05:48
Speaker
I know it happens, but then we have Debbie Weiss with us. All right, go ahead and do it. Go ahead. Hey, Debbie. So maybe you can help. You know, we we we always think our guests are always they always tell good stories. Story shapes life. We say that sometimes around these parts. How would you like to tell your story? And what do you like to do?
00:06:10
Speaker
in terms of how I got started collecting? yeah you mean well okay okay What's your story? So what does Barry ask? Hold on, I'm going to have help. So Barry says, how did you get your, how did you fall in love with Disney? And yeah, wellll just we'll how about let's just, let's just, we'll do that.
00:06:27
Speaker
It actually started with comic book collecting. So I remember being around 10 years old at school and someone showed me a Richie Rich comic. I had never seen a comic book and I went, hey, what is this? What is this? And I started buying Richie Riches and I started buying Archie's and I bought my first comic book ah price guide, The Overstreet Guide, which is the price Bible for comics. I would order them and and you know bag them up and all this kind of stuff.
00:06:52
Speaker
And then I used to be a trader in Wall Street and my first job out of college was in London and then they transferred me to Tokyo. And when I lived in Tokyo, um a family member bought me a cell of Archie, the connection to the comics. And I didn't know what a cell was. This is before the internet.
00:07:10
Speaker
And I thought they bought me, they just told me over the phone. i got They bought me a little tiny square for the film. I didn't understand that it was actually art that was photographed. And that's what made the cartoons and the films. And when I came back to the States and got the piece, I was like,
00:07:25
Speaker
This is a thing. I can't believe it. I love color. I love light. Everything's one of a kind. And it just went from there. So from Archie, I was just like, I want this piece and this piece. And I made my whole wish list. I want Scrooge with the money. And I made a wish list that really wasn't that attainable because when you really watch a movie, you slow it down and you really go kind of frame by frame, those perfect scenes don't really exist. on So when you're getting it, you know, sometimes it's somebody's back or eyes are closed or this or that. So I had to adjust my expectations to reality. And I just started buying pieces that spoke to me, like Don was saying, that just connected to me. And there's some pieces in my collection that you would look at, you'd go, well, that's not very valuable or rare.
00:08:17
Speaker
and makes me happy. I find it interesting. And sometimes it might be a piece that an animator gave to me as as a gift. And so there's emotional connections. And so when I'm looking at my collection, and when we talk to the people that buy from us, I'd like to find out what their collecting goals are, what speaks to them. and i'm And there's definitely been times where I'll recommend a much cheaper piece because that's not what I'm about. I'm a collector. I love it. I want my collectors to have a good experience with us, feel good about what they buy, enjoy it. And the key to that is finding out what they want, not what I want to tell them to buy.
00:08:55
Speaker
Along that same vein, if I could ask a question. So or so for the listeners, um a lot of people don't know what a cell is or what a lithograph is, or maybe obviously people have seen watercolor or oil paintings, but what are the types of media that you sell and what is the difference between a lithograph and a cell?
Types of Disney Animation Art
00:09:18
Speaker
Okay. So basically I specialize in original animation art that was used in the films and the it's really referred to in our world as production art. So there's kind of like this background of how a film or a cartoon comes to life. So first they have an idea.
00:09:37
Speaker
and they make things called concept art. So you might find concept art a lot of times doesn't actually look like the final character. Maybe they're saying, oh shit, Snow White had blonde hair or this or that, or I once um bought a collection. It was the most exciting thing I ever bought. It was right when I started the gallery. At the time, I knew it was great. I didn't know how great 35 years later, but I got this collection of Snow White concept art and the queen who's in the the film just for a teeny little bit.
00:10:04
Speaker
had a Puma next to her. There's no Puma in the film. And I looked at that piece and I felt it and everything like that. And so um it goes from concept art, then they go to storyboards, which is more like scene by scene. And then once they kind of agree that, then it starts getting the drawing one by one by one by one. And then After they sort that out, they start painting the cells one by one by one, and then they have the backgrounds, which they don't have as many of. Because if you look at the film, you know, Briarose is running along the forest, there's only one bank for all that running and dancing in the forest. And so what happened is the studios
00:10:44
Speaker
there used to be a lot of the Warner Brothers stores were around, the Disney stores, things like that. They started to realize, hey, people like this stuff, and we kind of gave a lot of it away. And so they weren't really making any money. So they made, um it's not so much the lithographs, they made limited edition sells. So they picked like those key scenes like I was talking about are hard to find. And they would make maybe 500 or 250. And then they'd go, hey, here's Snow White and all seven dwarves. They're very hard and very expensive to find in the original art. And they'd sell that. And
00:11:20
Speaker
People bought them and then they also made serographs, which is kind of like a poster on plastic much cheaper so a lot of times the limiteds were like two thousand five thousand dollars and The serious cells are usually in the more couple hundred kind of range maybe five hundred dollars These are all just general ranges. I was never a big fan of that art I think if you're buying it and that's what makes you happy and you know what you're getting I think that's great, but I I found that it confused a lot of collectors. They kind of went in and they weren't always being told exactly what they're buying. I can tell you that when I first started collecting, I went to a Disney store and I went in and bought $5,000, a couple limited. I thought I had a hand painted original background by a Disney artist because the wording that was given to me was very vague. I'm sure if I played the tape, it wasn't incorrect, but I think it was vague enough that You could kind of hear what you wanted to hear. I returned those pieces. And so I made a vow to myself that I was going to make sure that anything that anyone bought from me, they knew exactly what they were buying. So there's definitely, you know, the reproduction art, it doesn't tend to fare very well at all in the secondary market.
00:12:36
Speaker
Because, like, for example, when I said Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, so they're one limited and you go, oh, 500, that's only, you know, 10 per state. But guess what? Then they made another Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and another one. So if you want to do basic economics, does that mean if there's twice as many? Now everything's worth half as much and you see where I'm going with that. But again, if you want the perfect piece and you know what you're buying, buy it.
00:13:00
Speaker
The idea is to make you happy. And I don't like to sell from the standpoint of, will this go up? Will this not go up? There's no guarantees of these things. And so that's another problem some of the stores kind of ran into where I went into a Warner Brothers store and they're like, oh, it's guaranteed to go up 20% a year. Well, I was a trader on Wall Street. If I said that, I'd lose my license. And it also wasn't true.
00:13:23
Speaker
ah So I just think it's very important for people to decide, you know, what they like, what feels good in terms of what they want to spend financially on it and just get what makes them feel happy and maybe the best example of what is in their comfort zone price-wise.
00:13:41
Speaker
I got a question to piggyback off of something you said, because you're talking about like um the difference and not not feeling like thinking it was authentic. what were What are some of the things that you could tell people to to really know if it's authentic or not? like Is there a certain like way an animator did something? Is there a certain way that you know a cell was developed to make it more authentic as opposed to saying buying something from the Warner Brothers store or the Disney store?
00:14:10
Speaker
ah themtic as in as lean like as know Authentic as as as it's an original cell. It's an original um piece from one of the original animators. Is the question, how can you tell it's original versus a limited? Yes, exactly. Okay. All right. So there's a couple of ways to tell.
00:14:26
Speaker
So with the limited editions, the hand-painted, there's a fraction. So it would be like 200 out of 500 or something like that. And then the certificate of authenticity that comes with it hopefully is worded in a way that says that. And the serious cells often have like stamps on them and things like that.
00:14:44
Speaker
And if you look at the serous cells, there's no hand painting. They literally look kind of like the poster and the plastic and the limiteds are hand painted. But again, you have those fractions. And another giveaway is if it seems like a perfect pose of everybody.
00:14:59
Speaker
yeah And in the cases, some of the studios would do things that never appeared in in real life, like a bunch of characters on a football field. That's not from a cartoon and things like that. And also the original art, almost all of it, not so much the concept art, but the production art, almost all of it has the numbers unless it's an edited scene. And that's ah I don't want to get too complicated, but they'll have numbers in the lower right because they went in order like one, two, three, four. So they know how to photograph it.
00:15:27
Speaker
And the cells the same thing they'll have pickles on the drawings and on the cells sometimes those were trimmed and I don't again I don't want to get too complicated. And then hopefully who you're buying from is someone who knows what they're talking about someone like myself who also gives the certificate authenticity that is very clear.
00:15:47
Speaker
Like, I think we were the first ones that put a picture as well. So just didn't have the words that had the picture of your piece. This is original production cell of Briar Rose from Sleeping Beauty in 1959, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That kind of thing. And again, I think a lot comes down to hopefully who you're buying from is going to take the time to make sure that you're clear on what you're getting. What do you think is the draw like in your heart?
00:16:12
Speaker
you know, when you were collecting this, stuff you know, the joy, what's, you know, going to like Marie Kondo, sparking joy, right? So like in your life, you know? But when you look at, you know, your collection, it's gotta spark joy, right? and And it sparks joy for other people. But what is behind that? What what kind of, a what stuff comes alive in your heart? Is it a childlike sense of wonder? Is it just being part of a bigger story? Like what is,
00:16:39
Speaker
What is it for you that just comes alive when you, when you look at, you know, a new number one, either a new piece of art or just maybe your collection as a whole and you go, wow, this is really cool. Like what comes alive in you?
00:16:55
Speaker
I think for me, it's when i I see a piece that speaks to me, you know, you pause it. Well, that we don't have DVDs so much anymore. But, you know, when you you pause it in the film and you look at that and you go, hang on, this is Snow White. Almost everybody in the world knows Snow White. It's really important film that, you know, people over the world love and see in the whole thing. And I own a piece of that. I own what's on that screen.
00:17:21
Speaker
Oh my god, that's on my wall. Nobody else has this. This is part of Snow White. Like it's just, it's unbelievable to me. And it's so exciting. And another thing, like you were talking about other people, what's very interesting about animation art is almost anyone that comes to my home, kids,
00:17:41
Speaker
older people, people my age, from other countries or continents, pretty much everybody can relate to the art. You know, other people have art in their wall, oh, that's interesting, whatever, but they don't relate to it. People look at my wall, they're like, Snow White, you know, whoever it is, and that's pretty cool.
00:17:59
Speaker
it's super cool and I think I say story shapes life and what better to own a piece of the story like that is literally up you can see it you can you can look at it as visual and you can look at it and go oh wow I own a piece of this story and and I think story shapes milest shapes my life, it shapes our lives. and And to own a piece, I think that that's what's profound about, I think, collecting, you know, these snapshots or whatever it is, or even if it's just a painting of its story, it's a story and it it it in it it pulls you in a a narrative that is bigger than yourself. And we all want to be pulled in
00:18:44
Speaker
to something bigger than ourselves. And, and, and then we, I don't know, I don't know what the heck to do with my life. Well, I think there's a lot of other, I think there's a lot of other people that, that maybe sometimes feel the same way. But when you, you know, you, you walk in the living room or wherever it is, your office or, and you see a, a, a cell or a, or a snapshot of,
00:19:07
Speaker
It kind of pulls you back into but what I call a, well, I didn't, I don't call it a meta narrative. it's It's a story that's bigger than you. And Disney does this for a lot of people. These are timeless stories and timeless. And the, and just a snapshot, I think pulls you back into a.
00:19:27
Speaker
a story that's always going to be bigger than yourself. And it helps you figure out your own story. You know, even if it's a mundane week, you know, you're just, you're just, you're just getting through the week. Well, by looking at a ah single photo, I think it just, it, it makes it, it engages your, your childlike sense of wonder. It makes you dream and to think of things bigger and better. And, and it I think it's just very, very beautiful and helpful. What do you, what do you all think?
00:19:59
Speaker
The original production cells are not being done anymore.
Transition in Disney's Animation Techniques
00:20:02
Speaker
So you kind of have a piece of- That's not what I asked, Dawn. Well, I, other than looking at it- I was getting all philosophical and you just went all- I know you were going, you were going down the rabbit hole of tugging apart strings. Well, I was trying. But looking at it from an economical standpoint to people that collect Disney and- All right, shut me down. I'm gonna meet myself now. And the cell is no longer,
00:20:26
Speaker
being produced. So not only do you have a piece of Disney history, but you have a piece of technology history too, is what I was going to talk about because 1990 was the last time Disney produced any cells, correct?
00:20:42
Speaker
but Well, Mermaid, yeah, Mermaid in 89 was the last one for the future films. Some of the TV shows went longer. But yeah, so what Disney did from Beauty and the Beast onward is they released with Sotheby's Auction House. um ah Some of the original backgrounds, they recreated the cells. So people that have the Sotheby's setups, the background's original, but the cells. So you kind of have like a limited edition of one. Yeah.
00:21:09
Speaker
it's It's a very hybrid piece. Let me just know one plus an original one of a kind piece. So it's it's a little bit to get your head round if um you're new to collecting. Do you think I'm silly though? Okay, I'm gonna go back. I'm not gonna be usurped like this.
00:21:24
Speaker
What do you unmute it pretty fast there? I know. I i have a I have a I love it. I spilled my heart. I just feel like I got and I'm on the trotted. I'm on the collecting money. Like how but what's the value and what which one is the best? How about this? How about we'll meet in the middle? How about this? I will say, well, you know, when when what what do you think is the appeal? OK, let me let me bring it. we' We'll meet in the middle.
00:21:50
Speaker
You know, I think art is beautiful. i'm I'm a very artistic... I love art. I just love it. And I'm ah and i'm an emotional artistic kind of person. Well, what do you what do you and y'all can help me out if you want to help me flesh out the question better. So it's not so sappy and whatever. But i but and but I think when you when you see art up on the wall or whatever, it's just it invokes emotions. it I say story shapes life. It it just changes you. It, you know, um OK, someone to help me follow up question, like maybe what is your favorite art piece that invokes the most emotion that you have that you own and why? I think the answer is going to surprise you. yeah um It's from a film I like, but isn't my favorite film. It's a lady in the tramp piece.
00:22:41
Speaker
And it's not nearly the most valuable. It's basically lady turning her head so her ears flapped up, like she's like, huh, you know, tramp, you're upsetting me. And tramp's like, what did I do? What did I do? And the reason I love this piece is I've had it for, I think around 38 years, a long time. It's one of the first ones I bought. I had bought a few in like the $500 range. So this was around $2,000. So at the time it was my most expensive piece.
00:23:08
Speaker
It's not anymore, but it was. You can really feel a story off it at the time I was dating someone that... used to irritate me a lot. So it felt like it really, um, you know, told that story. And I was still living in Japan at the time. And he was from the LA area. And when we were in l LA at the time, the auction house isn't there anymore, but there was an auction house. It was in the window. I saw it. I had to have it. I was dreaming about it. And we literally stayed at the auction bid for this piece and then ran to catch our flight. So there's like a backstory of how I got it and why I got it and the whole thing. And so that um that's actually my favorite piece. I think that's a very good answer. I know exactly what piece you're talking about, because ah i that's Lady and Tramp is my wife's favorite movie. So we've watched it
Famous Animators and Their Art
00:24:00
Speaker
quite a bit. And that that scene, I know exactly like the head turn and everything that you're talking about. so And I've seen in researching you, I've also seen the picture come up. So that's such a great piece.
00:24:10
Speaker
Now speaking of Lady and the Champion like having your first pieces, um has it gotten to a point where you can tell who like what animation artist did what ah whenever you're buying a piece so you're you're consigning a piece like if it's an original production so like if it's a Ward Kimball or if it's a Ruthie Thompson piece can you tell just by certain intricacies that they may have had within their art?
00:24:34
Speaker
sort of, because the animators did the key drawings or sometimes they were junior animators who didn't do the key drawings. So that really comes into play with the with the drawings. And for a long time, the cells were going for way higher prices than the drawings. And the key drawings versus not key drawing was a very small price differential.
00:24:59
Speaker
So it's kind of like the collectors have gone on this journey where when it first came out, people seem to be more excited about the cells because that matches the film, right? Oh, that's the color. That's the, so you go, oh, lay in the trim. That's that. And I have found as time goes on, the key drawings are getting a lot more expensive. The concept art is getting a lot more expensive. Dwarfing, in fact, see what I did there, dwarf?
00:25:26
Speaker
the ah Keymaster setups and things like that. So way back when, you you and you had some big names Spielberg and Michael Jackson all bidding each other out in auction. You can imagine how that went. And a lot of those pieces were were the colored pieces. So what'll happen is I'll buy say an animators estate, which I did recently. A lot of Robin Hood drawings in there. Mill, Paul.
00:25:50
Speaker
you know, was the lead thing. So, the odds are very high where you go, okay, you know, Mark Davis was in charge of Tinkerbell. If it's a key drawing of Tinkerbell, it's most likely. I never like to say a hundred percent. I know what's this or that because Milt's not here to tell me for sure. And then, you know, there's a lot of people, but I can say I believe very strongly it's very possible. It's that because of XYZ. I just, I just hate, you know, to, I would never want to get it wrong, basically. I will say, if one was this completely hypothetical, if somebody, not me, ever to stage a heist and wanted to steal all the Robin Hood, everything, just everything, just all the Robin Hood art, can you give me a location and a time and a, no, I'm joking. I'm joking. From my house? No, no, I love Robin Hood. No, no, not your house. I would never steal from you, no way.
00:26:50
Speaker
You know, I want to steal from the, no, wait, not me, not me, but I was, I love Robin Hood. I love that art. I love anything Robin Hood. I love it. So I was just joking. I was just teasing, but, uh, Lisa, I didn't understand the question. Oh, so there was no question. It was just, it it was no question. It was just, um, I'm a degenerate and I was going to, I want to have a heist where I steal all the Robin hood photos and paintings. Cause I'm a big fan of Robinhood. I love Robinhood so much. Well, the good news for you is versus some of the other ones. Robinhood is on the more affordable side.
00:27:28
Speaker
That's very good news. Listen, that's- This is good news for you. Thank you everyone for listening to Sharing the Magic. I'm your host, Jeff. No, I'm not your host. Anyways, okay. let's go to Let's go to Lisa. I'm a huge Robin Hood fan. I love Robin Hood and all the art. I don't know. I'm just obsessed with it. so I will digress right now and he shouldn't say, hey, well, I don't even I was trying to follow the questions and I got a little lost. No, there's no question. It was just a comment. There's no question of this. for Just for the general record, I was not asking a question. I didn't know you were asking a question when I saw I'm sure I have to move now. I'm pretty sure I have to move now. I, geez, what what I'm hearing is
00:28:21
Speaker
Stop podcasting Jeff. You don't know how to ask a question. Okay. So if someone someone is a new art collector and say they are just getting into this, um, what questions should they bring in and speak with you about?
Advice for Aspiring Art Collectors
00:28:38
Speaker
Oh, I like this. So actually, it's more that I think it's my job to ask you questions and find out what's important to you. So I like um to say, hey, you know, what films speak to you or what characters And I do like to ask, even though it seems kind of tacky, I do like to ask, you know, what budget are you trying to stay in? Because it doesn't seem very nice to lead someone down the rabbit hole. They live Cinderella, and they want original self in Cinderella, and their budget's $500. Then you've kind of built up an expectation to only disappoint them.
00:29:13
Speaker
So I do try and stay start with the budget and then get as close to something that they want within that budget. So someone comes in and says, my budget's $25,000, then there's a lot of choices. you know I have a Cinderella in the in the ball gown, so.
00:29:29
Speaker
in that price range. But if someone comes in and says my price range is $500, then we have a different conversation. And as a general rule, drawings are more affordable than cells. It kind of tends to go drawings, cells, and then sometimes the constant depth, you know, going super high. If it has the original background, that's going super high.
00:29:51
Speaker
But, I mean, to go back to your favorite Robin Hood, ah you know, I bought an Amherst estate. I have some pieces that are $50, $95, you know, under $100 for original drawing from Robin Hood. It's of, you know, the more minor characters. But you can also find a situation where someone loves, you know, Robin Hood, and this amazing setup for $5,000 is in attainable, then you just pivot and you say, well, here's some options that are that we have that are in your price range is anything appealing. So I really try and find out you know what's important. do you do you Do you want original? Do you prefer the sales? Do you prefer the drawings and things like that? And and we just we have a couple of thousand pieces at the gallery and we pull out boxes that match you know what people are telling us are appealing to that.
00:30:42
Speaker
And that, to me, that sounds like you care about their stories. You care about, you know, that's probably hard to, you know, when someone's like, well, you know, like, when I just, like, I love Robinhood, but it seems like what you do is you specifically look at not just what they, what they love, but where they are in life, what's their their price range, what,
00:31:02
Speaker
You know, and that's wonderful. I think that's, i that's very that's very interesting to me, I think, because it's, you are sort of this, this, uh, this sort of like go between person that says, you know, I have a a vast array of knowledge and.
00:31:21
Speaker
You know, you would love to acquire something that, a story, a piece of a story that would shape your life. And let me help you, let me be your coach. Let me, let me, let me figure out how I can help. How about guide? She'll go for guide. Guys! I know, I know. Coach is bad. I felt, I felt, I actually felt guilty when I said coach. I'm like, there's a better word. What did you say, Don? It's whisperer. Ooh, I'm the animation whisperer. There you go. Ooh.
00:31:50
Speaker
I had a question because you brought up the varying prices from drawings to animation cells to concept art. Now, do you think the animation cells being middle road, could that be due to some of their scarcity because of how the animators used to treat those cells? ah Can you define what you meant by middle road?
00:32:08
Speaker
Like, so you so you're saying like the the low on the lower end, sorry, my dog's in the background, some of some of the lower end, like say the art, like you said, you had some pieces that are 50, 90, $100, then you say that like the the prices vary and that the the concept, unless concept, but the the animation styles are more spendy, there's more you know budget there, as like the concept art is more expensive than say that. So it's like,
00:32:32
Speaker
but I guess my point is, and I guess my question is, is like the the reason of the prices on the animation cells being where they're at, is it due to the scarcity? To a certain degree, I mean, what's really hard about animation, unless you do it like I do, is a lot of it is based upon supply and demand. And back in the thirties, it is easier to find an original Snow White drawing than a Jungle Book drawing, which logically makes no sense, right? Cause Snow White's much older, but because in the thirties and the forties, Disney didn't care.
00:33:06
Speaker
people to get home, this, that, the other thing. Whereas as it started getting later in time, they were like, oh, wait, we want to save these. We want to train other animators. And then they're like, wait, this has value. We're not just giving this away anymore. So you have these pockets of things. And then like during the war, they were reusing the Bambi cells. So Bambi cells are very hard to find because they were wiping them down because of you know the years that was. and in the 30s and 40s, Disney actually outsourced to this place called Covassie galleries where they would send them boxes of Snow White cells, they would trend them to the figure, stick them on a background. So a lot of cells from the 30s and 40s survived as Covassie setups. It is way, way harder to find an untrimmed cell
00:33:56
Speaker
from that era than the Kovasi, almost all that survived are Kovasi setups. So you just have these pockets of unusual reasoning. And so you also have a situation where a lot more people want Snow White than this bunny from Snow White, right? Because it's much more popular. And then you have seen specific things. So for example, Snow White and all the dwarves is going to be more expensive than Snow White on our own.
00:34:23
Speaker
or if we want to talk about Lady and the Tramp to go back to that, the Belenote, the spaghetti scene, that's way more valuable than Lady and the Tramp together. so you you It's a very specified knowledge thing, so it's hard to answer the question like as a blanket statement because it's all about what survived and what's popular and this or that. I can tell you um to go back to some of the exciting things that Jeff was talking about,
00:34:47
Speaker
My favorite thing is to find art that's never been to the market before. So when I get it, like like the Snow White concept art I talked about, that that was from an animator's estate. No one had ever seen it. It had never been for sale. And I kept a few pieces myself and the rest of it went at the time to the biggest collector in the world. I mean, it just bounced out. And the Robin Hood art that we bought, you know, that was from an animator's estate, never in anyone's collection before.
00:35:15
Speaker
It was um a relative that sadly had passed away and we dealt with the family. and Then we're going through this and we're like, oh my God, there's a run. you know Usually when it's sold you know it goes everywhere, we have some drawings in order. you know That's really hard to find nowadays. That's really interesting, I think.
00:35:34
Speaker
I'm here. i I want to go back to the beginning of Debbie. So were you born in California? Well, you don't have to go but all the way. and For those that can't see, she made a shock face. No, Dawn's got it. All right. Dawn's such a good interviewer. All right. Well, I'm trying to figure out inside your mind. So I'm assuming you were born in California. You live in California. Am I right there or no?
00:36:02
Speaker
Oh, okay. I was born in Connecticut. I was born in Connecticut. I went to school in Philadelphia. My first job was in London. They transferred me to Tokyo and they then transferred me back to New York. i My husband is English and I met him when I was trading and um we decided that we wanted more sun and and more outdoors and things like that. So we moved to Los Angeles about 25 years ago.
00:36:27
Speaker
Oh, wow. Okay. Well, that threw me. i I figured you were a Californian. um So did you fall in love with Disneyland or did you like the Disney movies or the Disney company or what made you kind of, I guess, pull towards collecting Disney art?
Debbie's Disneyland Perspective
00:36:45
Speaker
Um, to me, I like Disneyland. There is a, um, I'm not in love with it. Like like some people go like regularly and they go in the rides a hundred thousand times. I like it there. I like it a lot. You're in like with it. Yeah. No, I mean, I enjoy it. I mean, it gets very crowded and I've got, you know, kids and stuff and they, they love it. And you know, but that's kind of a different segment that's collecting the Disney land to Disney world items. If they don't cross over much to my surprise.
00:37:14
Speaker
it's It's quite interesting to me that um there doesn't seem to be intersection of people who collect like the vintage figurines and teacups and and the statues and salt and pepper sets. They rarely collect animation, and my collectors rarely cross over. It's fascinating. And then people who like the Disney World stuff, they like the rides, you know some of the cars from the rides and other things, but they don't tend to to cross over. And now I forgot what the question was.
00:37:43
Speaker
I guess I'm just trying to wonder, like obviously animation is right there in Burbank. Have you toured that? Have you met any of the animators? um I know they have things at the park. They certainly have things at Epcot for collectors. Do you have any presence? I'm friendly with some of the animators, ah that you know the the newer animators, you know if you like. and Some of them have done drawings for me as like a gift, which is really nice. so Those are the kind of things that are in my office.
00:38:11
Speaker
um I know it's just Disney, but I also do a lot in Simpsons and I have Simpsons things, but I want to stay on topic, you know, for what you guys do. Yeah, I've had some like Simpsons parties that have gotten like international press and things like that. So which is, that's a little fun. And I've also gone into um the the morgue at Disney and they said, you know, what's your, what do you want to see? And I'm like, do you have any drawings of, you know, Dumbo and his mom's trunk?
00:38:36
Speaker
And they pulled out a stack of drawings. I thought I was going to lose my mind. And they showed me things from Cinderella. We weren't allowed to take pictures. I just, you know, you have to imagine, I've seen a lot of art in 35 years, right? I've seen thousands and thousands. I've owned thousands and thousands of pieces, sold thousands and thousands. So for me to get excited, you know, it's harder, right? i just My mouth was open the whole tour. I don't know if I said a word, I just went,
00:39:03
Speaker
Okay, this is a non-video, so that didn't translate very well. But um it's it's so, to me, I just, I found something that I like. I really, I look at the things, it just connects to me. I think it has to do, it really brings back that excitement with the comic books that I was seeing before. It just, that's, this is my lane. This is the lane I like to click.
00:39:26
Speaker
that that brings me joy. And it's just it's just really fun. But I love Disney, but not in that way where I'm I'm everything's Disney and everything's, you know, Disney trips and Disney things like that. And there's people, you know, that love that. And I'm good with that. I have a sprinkling of that. It's not like my whole thing. So what is your favorite? If you don't want it didn't have to just be Disney. What is your favorite to collect or is there um a favorite genre? Of animation wise, you mean? Yeah.
00:39:56
Speaker
um It's so interesting because when I first started, and I think a lot of collectors are like that, they start with the cells, right? Because that's what they recognize. And then as they if they learn a lot more, I then find they're like, oh, drawings, wait, the drawing became the cell. And then you try sometimes to pair it up, which can be really hard, but you can get things that are similar. And then you start to learn them and go, wait a second here. It really began with the storyboard and the concept art. So I find that I went on this journey. So if you had asked me 35 years ago,
00:40:25
Speaker
buy some concert art I'd be like, no, that doesn't look any, no, not not interested. Whereas now I'm a lot more interested. I have a Tinkerbell David Hall piece that's amazing. I would not have bought that 35 years ago. So I'm kind of going on this journey, right? That's a very Jeff word, I think. um and And I find that with collectors, but I also find collectors who are animators They don't want the cells, right? They want the milk halls. They want things that they believe have been done by their heroes. And ah so it's you got to kind of meet people where where they are.
00:41:01
Speaker
Do you still collect comic books? Because you said you started in comic books. And I know for me, comic books were a huge part of my life in the art and the animation within that. So you said you collected, you know, Richie Rich and Archie. Do you still have a collection of those within your art stuff? Because they they are technically still art. I mean,
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately, my my collection got stolen. I think Jeff came over. um We got her. Well, would I would. No, I'm not gonna make a joke. I'm like, you got to give to the poor, but then I'm like, wait, wait, no. No, that's like, that's just not right. Sometimes stealing is just wrong, everybody.
00:41:39
Speaker
Sometimes, but just sometimes. okay um so Unfortunately, my collection was stolen, but I i have young kids and because the Archie's and the Richie Rich's, they're not going for the and millions of dollars as the other ones. I go to the comp affairs now and I say, hey, can you give me some for like a dollar each because I know my daughter is just going to fall asleep on them. you know and I've managed to get them a couple of thousand Archie's and Richie Rich's for a dollar each and they're loving it and they're reading them and I've got them reading and I get to share that with them. Art-wise, the animation for the the Archie's doesn't do a lot for me because my connections with the comic books, not with the art. so I really just have that one piece that was the first piece. and I do have a little bit of the comic art,
00:42:28
Speaker
But the cummerkurts doesn't do it for me as much. I like I appreciate it. I think it's amazing. It's just not my jam to collect. Don, I'm going back to you. you are You're you're you're questions. And ah well, thank you. um It's interesting because I like the Disney and a collection aspect of it. And I realize that's not all that you sell or collect.
00:42:50
Speaker
But um what is the most expensive piece of Disney production art that you have sold or purchased? Okay. um I think the highest one, it was a number of years ago. ah It had never been to the market before. I got the first color Mickey Mouse sell ever. And it was on a master background. I think at the time I sold it. And this was like 25 years ago for about $75,000.
00:43:20
Speaker
like And so i' likee that that's on the higher end. the company I've definitely sold over the years many pieces, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 50,000. That happens a lot. Going over a hundred is is more unusual. the i I also carry original Peanuts comic strips since you you'd like the value thing. And those,
00:43:45
Speaker
sell all the time, 20, 30, 40, 50, a couple over a hundred thousand. um We can't get those in stock. We get one in, they're sold within two phone calls. They don't even hit the website. They don't even hit the the emails. they're They're gone. Wow. I love peanuts. I think that's just, everyone can relate to peanuts for sure.
00:44:06
Speaker
Do you have buyers that you like call? As soon as you see, say for example, you brought the Peanuts stuff, you see these pieces of art come in. Do you just have a person that you you have on speed dial? Like, hey, I've got this piece of art. I want want to give you first dibs on it. Yes. Or do people, just okay, yeah.
00:44:21
Speaker
because I know how kind of consignments work and I know some consigners like that and some people do that and others don't so yeah you know your protocol is to give them a call and I think that that's really good for business overall but that that's amazing that you do that because on high-end stuff like that Charles Schulz stuff in general peanuts is it's really sought-after but if you have an original strip or even Hanna-Barberix I know you dabble in Hanna-Barbera it's it's a really um there's a huge market for stuff like that there isn't a question in there so No, I agree. Since he passed, since charles sch shortt Charles Schwartz passed, say that three times fast, he is you know just like any other artist, is it's become more valuable. And his comic strips are so relatable from growing up. So everyone still talks about the Thanksgiving snoopy ah peanuts Thanksgiving. And even today, it's just
00:45:16
Speaker
whenever you hear about it or see a meme with it. Like I just saw a meme with the Thanksgiving meal from Peanuts. It just brings you back to when you were a child. So I think that kind of goes back to when you were saying um your Snow White art on the wall.
00:45:30
Speaker
like if I were to go in your house and see your snow or snow white art hanging on your wall, um I would know that that's a character you connect with and I would feel like I know a little bit more about you and the person you are just from that. Because I love a Lady and the Tramp and I could also relate when you were saying that Lady had turned her head and had that attitude and how it played a time in your life when you had that little interaction with an ex-boyfriend, I think you said. So it's so funny how we do connect art with what's going on with our own personality and our own time in life at that moment. And and it's just it's an amazing outlet.
00:46:11
Speaker
what jeff what What drove you into the art world? Because you said you were a trader early on. What what was like the the idea of leaving the stock world and into the art world? Because that that seems like a big gamble. I mean, the stock market's a gamble in general, but art seems a little bit more riskier. It in it is. I mean, I'm not making what I used to make, that's for sure. but I used to, what I like to say is I used to make a market in Telefonica, which was an Argentine stock. I specialize in Argentina. So I used to make a market in that and now I make a market in Snow White. um So my skills translate very well. You might not think about it, but it actually does, right? Because I was a market maker. It wasn't on the floor. I told the people on the floor to do so. I was off market over the counter OTC.
00:47:02
Speaker
um so Back then with Argentina, like the market was what the 10 or 20 of us said it was. That's kind of like what we do now. You're buying Snow White at a certain price, you're selling at a certain price. What is harder is it's um a little less liquid. right In the stock market, you can always put it on the floor and there'll be a price. Here, you know things don't sell as quickly. Do you take them to auction or is it just on your site?
00:47:29
Speaker
Um, once in a while I'll put something in auction, but mostly, you know, we get things in and we want to, we usually offer it to our collectors, you know, first, right? I've been doing this a long time. A lot of people only buy from us. You know, we built those relationships and you know, we want to take care of the people that have taken care of us. That's awesome. Do you have celebrities that you work with? Yes, but I'm not allowed to mention.
00:47:53
Speaker
Oh, of course. i Yeah. but But you have such a good. I think I could tell you a story because i it was sadly the the gentleman isn't around anymore. Do you want me to I think that would probably be okay.
00:48:05
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead. Do it. Do it. Do it. OK, so this is a ah while ago and, you know, Sopranos James Gandolfini. And so he did not look like himself and he like ah because he was in a movie and he he didn't look Sopranos James, even though and he walked in the gallery. And because I at the time was reading People magazine, I'm like, oh, my God, that's James Gandolfini. I was like,
00:48:30
Speaker
It's act normal. What's normal? You know, I forgot. And you know, I'm like, hi, James, how can I help you? And he was looking at some things. He was, of course, had almost no time and was leaving the next day and the whole thing. And he was like, I want to get pieces at that time for, he wanted to get a piece for Ben Affleck was with J.Lo the first time.
00:48:50
Speaker
And he said, oh my gosh, I have to go. Do you want to come visit on the set? Will you bring us art? I'm like, sure we will. And we went but there and he's looking at the art. He's buying this for Ben and this for himself. He gets a lot of art together and he was like, will you give me a better price? And I'm thinking,
00:49:07
Speaker
He makes a heck of a lot more than I do. He wants a discount. I want him happy when I'm telling me his friends. So, and I just read in people that he was getting whatever, a million an episode, whatever it was. So I looked at him and I said, all right, James, I'm going to give you a discount because I want you to be happy. I want you to tell your friends. I said, and I said it just like this. I said, but don't think that I don't know that you just got a big ass raise.
00:49:33
Speaker
And it was silent. And it was silent. And I'm like, I lost this wholesale. But boy, was that a great thing to say. Then after a very long time, he started laughing and he bought the art and he gave me a check and I copied the check, which I've kept a copy of. um And to me, that was a pretty fun moment. That's awesome. That is an amazing story. That's great.
00:49:56
Speaker
What is the art that he bought for Ben Affleck to give to J.Lo?
Celebrity Art Stories
00:50:00
Speaker
Oh, boy. I really hope Ben doesn't come after me. At that time, I think Ben was going to Vegas a lot and drinking a lot. So he bought a cell of the Jester from Sleeping Beauty that likes to drink all the time. And that's what he got for Ben. Oh, yeah. That doesn't surprise me. Oh, my gosh. And which one did James get? Sorry, James. Gandalf, what did he get? What did James get?
00:50:25
Speaker
You know what? I'm having trouble remembering. Was it a Snow White piece? No. I think because I remember the story so well. I mean, this is a long time ago and I remember the Ben Affleck piece. I can't remember what James got. I'm going to have to go back and look at the receipt. I'm sorry. I can't remember. That's still on part two, you can tell us. Yeah, that's still a good story. Part two.
00:50:48
Speaker
well I mean, I cannot believe that just stories like that happen every day and in this world. And I love that you're able to share that with us. You know, and James Gandolfini is a wonderful actor who, you know, is no longer with us, like you said. But man, that's that's just a trip to have that happen.
00:51:07
Speaker
um Now, i kind of i digressing from Gandolfini, do you ever see a crossover with Disneyland art and the actual animation stuff? Like, mary does Mary Blair stuff come up from the park as as much as probably Alice in Wonderland ah art might come up?
00:51:24
Speaker
Okay. So the question is, do I ever sell- Do you ever sell like original pieces? Small world concepts? Yeah, original pieces from the park. Yeah, concepts, so original pieces from the park. So I've sold a lot of Mary Blair art and some of it has been small world. A lot of, you know, Alice's, you Peter Pan's, that kind of thing. Mary Blair is really, really, really high in demand and she just seems to be growing and growing the prices and the demand for her art are just rocketing.
00:51:53
Speaker
Do you think it's because of her that the way her art was much different than most everybody else's and in animation? Because her art was very unique and very different than say, award Kimball drawing for Snow White. Alice in Wonderland was very more vibrant than say some of the other animation. So do you think it has to do with her stylistic approach to art?
00:52:15
Speaker
I think it's that, I mean, she was a visionary and her art is very distinctive and it's beautiful and wonderful. And as I said, you know, when I first started collecting, the concept art wasn't that big a deal and people really have started to get, gain a real appreciation for the concept art. So the Ivan Earls and the Mary Blair's and and things like that have really just, they're going through the roof, the prices, and they're not slowing down.
00:52:44
Speaker
Hey, so we're about, we're about at, we say 45, no, we're about an hour. We want to be respectful for, for, for time. And so, hey, if there's anyone here who's just a question just burning on your heart or Debbie, if there's anything that's burning on your heart that you're like, Oh, I want to, I want to talk about this one thing.
00:53:07
Speaker
All right. This is about the time to do it. I actually have an offer. I'd like you to come to Los Angeles and I would like you to, you know, pick a Robin Hood drawing, um, you know, from not too, too expensive, but you know, from my stash, I'd like, I'd like you to have one as a gift. chesel I would.
00:53:25
Speaker
oh Nobody's ever given me a gift. I'm actually kind of emotional because I'm like, nobody's given me a gift, offered a gift on podcasts before. um Man, that's really, i'm like how do I get to i get to l LA?
00:53:44
Speaker
but Or if you knew someone that knew how to scan images and email them to you and then ship them FedEx. Are you on Facebook? Can I, can I, won't be my friend or something? I'm on Facebook. Okay. This podcast is all about sharing that love. So sweet. And sharing sharing that magic. This is the stuff that just like, no, it makes me tear up. I'm like, oh, that's just really, that's a sweet offer. Like.
00:54:09
Speaker
That's Disney magic. I left the street so I can make people happy, you know, and and look at what's happening here. That makes me a success more than money. Oh, that's so sweet, Debbie. Well, I don't have any more to say. Somebody's going to have to. I think that's a good place to end. what I think it's a great place to because I mean, but part two, we had to we had to leave some meat on the bone for a part two.
Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
00:54:31
Speaker
I mean, because I did. I did watch some of your older interviews and there's some art that I saw of yours.
00:54:38
Speaker
that I want to talk more about, but we we've we focus a lot on Disney here and the Disney stuff that we have talked about. and just it's just It's amazing that your story is that captivating and that that they are that you've talked about has been a very big part of your story and sharing that with us is It's good stuff. It's great, it's great stuff. And hearing, you know, some the some of the questions may have gotten into the weeds and some of the questions may have been in depth. That's all my fault, I'm sorry. Well, yeah me too. But the fact is, is those the the questions are, are like like you said, it's like art, it shapes life. And your story has shaped a wonderful life. I haven't seen this before.
00:55:20
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Is it okay to mention my website in case any of your listeners? Okay. So let's do this. Let me, let me, let me, let me take us out a little bit. So yeah. All right. If people are curious and they want to find you and see, well, what do you, what are you up to these days and how can I, I, you know, where, where are you? Or do you have socials? Do you have, how can we support you? What's the best way? I think the best way is to go on the website because that's where you can see all the art. So the website address is www.agalary.com, just two W's. I know everybody's like, you know, the three W's. So it's www.agalary.com. We're in Los Angeles. And if you want to give us a call, it's 310-836-1. 4992 that's 310 836 4992 and we usually have a couple thousand pieces on the site for you know people to look at and see if that's a fit for them and people can also join our weekly mailing list there's no charge for that. We just send out our newest acquisitions that we get in so that gives you kind of like a.
00:56:27
Speaker
first shot at things. And we also keep wishes wish So if you want a Tinkerbell cell and we don't have one, you can let us know and then you'll go in the Tinkerbell cell wish list, which is not actually easy to say. I have good that i a goofy wish list and Robin Hood. Those are my two. I've got a Peter Pan wish list now. You you keep bringing up Tinkerbell and Peter Pan. We all have wish lists. It's bad news. I could lose a lot of money here.
00:56:55
Speaker
I'm geeking out, but thank you so much for being. Thank you so much for, for. Thank you for having me. This was delightful. I really appreciate it. Bye. Thank you so much, Debbie. Have a wonderful evening. Cheers. Bye. Bye.
00:57:10
Speaker
Thank you for joining us for another enchanting episode of Sharing the Magic. We are the Thinking Fans podcast, an entertainment show where education and entertainment collide each week. We bring you whimsical interviews with Disney guests who share their magical experiences and reveal how they are woven into the Disney fabric. Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay updated on our latest episodes.
00:57:32
Speaker
Spread the word and let your friends know they can tune in wherever they enjoy their favorite podcasts. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and ex formerly Twitter at at sharing the magic pod. Until next time, keep sharing the magic.