Transcript
Speaker: The following podcast is a Jill Devine media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
Speaker: Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
Speaker: This is episode five of Normal Goes a Long Way. I'm your host Jill Devine, and in episode four, Pastor Jim Mueller sat down with Laura Fleetwood to talk about what it means to be a Christian and how you live that out in your life. In this episode, Pastor Chuck Schli will join Laura Fleetwood, and she's going to ask him, who is God?
Speaker: Welcome to Normal Goes a Long Way. I'm Laura Fleetwood in the studio today with Pastor Chuck Schlee. And Chuck, thank you for being here. We are going to be tackling an age -old question today. Who is God? And that is a weighty subject, so thank you for being willing to take it on.
Speaker: I'd like to approach it from the beginning because we could take this conversation in many, many directions, but you are used to working with middle school students.
Speaker: and helping them understand who God is. And I thought maybe that would be a good place to start because we're all about normal conversation, normal words. You know, how do you introduce kids to the concept of God and then the person of God? First of all, let me just say this. I love, love, love the title of this podcast. Normal goes a long way. And that is so true.
Speaker: Well, it was your original idea. We kind of stole it.
Speaker: You know what, I've been doing pastor stuff for about 20, a couple of years. And early on, my buddy and I, who we teamed up with being pastors at Messiah, we thought, let's just try being normal and talk normal and maybe dress and look normal. And maybe we'll see if God can do some good with that instead of walking in and wearing the robe and nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that.
Speaker: But, you know, and doing the whole beloved and the Lord.
Speaker: Let us draw near with the true heart." And who talks like that? Why do we have to do that? Let's not. And so, the one that goes a long way, great title. Thank you very much for having me. And yeah, who's God? Come on, I don't know. We could spend a week on this and maybe get there, but let's do our best. I think at the very beginning, we all have a God, believe it or not.
Speaker: whether we acknowledge it or not, but God'smology is anything you worship, anything that you devote your time, energy, life to. It might be career. It might be your kids. It might be your spouse. It might be your husband.
Speaker: It might be your wife. And those are good things, by the way. I'm married, I've got kids, love them. But it's, what is that thing that drives you? And so for me, I'll say that there is a God. And if I was just gonna school some middle schoolers, I'd talk about the Trinity, which is a big, big,
Speaker: $10 word, which no one can ever really explain because it's super mysterious. But it's, you know, think of it like God in three persons. That's how the church would say it. God in three persons, but totally united. You know, St. Patrick, we go out and have a good time at St. Patrick's Day, right? But he was a real guy who loved Jesus and was a priest and he was
Speaker: He tried to explain it by pointing to the old shamrock that's supposed to represent God. It's how he taught the people that you look at the clover. It's made up of three parts, you know, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And yet it's just one clover, one shamrock. And that's how he kind of did it. And every time you try to explain the Trinity, there's going to be some kind of fault with it. The way I would kind of
Speaker: Introduce it is like oh, I'm one guy But yet you could say there's three parts of me my kids for instance call me dad and I'm very much a father to them My spouse calls me Chuck or honey bunch or whatever and she knows me in a different way and a lot of people at church know me as pastor my job as pastor and
Speaker: And so, but there's just one of me. But there's, I don't really want to call them roles or modes, but that's another way to look at it. If you were talking to little kids, you might use an apple and say it's made up of three parts, like the core is a part and the fleshy middle part and then the skin is another part. Yeah, that's one apple.
Speaker: So it's super complicated and no one can really get to the end of it, God and three persons. But let's think of it like you would maybe yourself, like Laura, one person, wife, mom, podcaster. All right. So I would say if we want to move through it, it would be, let's talk about God as Father, God as Son, and God as Holy Spirit.
Speaker: I love that because I know in my conversations with people, there's a difference even in prayer, like who people pray to. Some people pray, dear Heavenly Father, other people talk to Jesus, other people talk to the Holy Spirit. So I love the idea of thinking of the three parts and one whole. It doesn't really matter. It's all God.
Speaker: It is all God. Yeah, and I wouldn't get too cranked up over, am I doing it right? Yeah. You know, when I'm talking to God. We think of just, Father, that's what Jesus called God. He called him the Father. His followers asked him, how should we pray? And Jesus said, oh, start like this. Our Father, who art in heaven, who is in heaven,
Speaker: So I guess if you were going to open up your Bible, you would see God.
Speaker: Father as creator. That is his job. That's what he does. He creates. And, um, and then you would go to God, the son, and he's the very best picture of God. You look at Jesus and it's like looking into God. It's God on earth. I mean, you want to know who God is? Look at Jesus, you know, and Jesus is totally cool. And here's why, because
Speaker: He is the most humble person on Earth, and yet, the same exact time, he is not wimpy at all.
Speaker: He's almost like, I won't say an egotist, but if you didn't know anything about Jesus, you could say that about him because he says, I'm God, follow me, do this, don't do that, I got the goods. Okay, if you didn't know Jesus, you would say, that guy is either crazy,
Speaker: or he is who he says he is. And I'm one of those guys who say, he is who he says he is. And then, part three, the Holy Spirit. Now that one is super mysterious because how do you describe a spirit? I think
Speaker: heads like God the Father, right? He's really old and he's got a beard. You know what I mean? Because we've seen those pictures around the Sistine Chapel or whatever and he's pretty muscular, he's pretty buff. Okay, we can wrap our heads around that because we know what a father is.
Speaker: Now, it's troublesome, and maybe we'll get to that if you grew up with a jerk father, or a terrible dad, then, boy, calling God fathers. All right. And we can picture Jesus. I mean, we see lots of pictures of Jesus.
Speaker: He also has a beard and he's pretty good looking guy according to the pictures. My favorite is the one that he looks like. I'm John Ritter from Three's company. Oh my gosh. Doesn't he? With the hair kind of swept back and he's got the tan and the greenest teeth. So we can figure that, you know, okay, but what about the Holy Spirit? You know, how do you describe a spirit? Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if you grew up in church, maybe you heard him call it the Holy Ghost. Yeah, that's creepy. Which is also weird, kind of a freak out of Holy Ghost. I literally used to imagine like a Casper that kind of hovered in the sanctuary. We invoke the Holy Ghost. But really, if you think of it, Laura, could you describe your spirit?
Speaker: Uh, or Chuck, could you describe your spirit? Well, sometimes I'm like this. Sometimes I'm like that sometimes. And the Holy Spirit is kind of like that. I think better than using the term Holy Ghost is Holy Spirit is more like a counselor, really, really good counselor who kind of leads you in the right ways to go and tells you avoid that and do this instead.
Speaker: I think the counselor is like a counselor in the court of law, lawyer is also a counselor. So a lawyer speaks on your behalf, someone who's smarter than you, but your lawyer speaks
Speaker: for you. Your lawyer or your counselor speaks in your place and he speaks well and does things well. And I think the Holy Spirit as counselor speaks in the court of your own heart. And if you pay attention, we'll lead you in some really, really fun and great places.
Speaker: I sometimes think about the Holy Spirit as like the essence of Jesus that lives in us. In a way, I don't know if that's right, but kind of that's because Jesus, when he gave us the Holy Spirit, he said, he almost said like, this is better than being with me in person.
Speaker: And I'm like, no way Jesus, like I want to be walking this earth when you walked this earth. But he said, no, I'm sending you the Holy Spirit. And, and that will be so much better for you than, than living on earth with me. That's hard to believe, but he said it. And so I'm like, okay. Cause I would think if I was one of those original, you know, disciples, then I would have, you know, that I'd really be a good guy.
Speaker: Yeah, we get it, right? And Jesus says, no, you wouldn't. You'd be just as dorky as you are today, but I love you anyway. So the Holy Spirit is, I think, I agree with you that it's kind of like that little Jesus that comes out every once in a while when you actually say something that's
Speaker: loving and kind and forgiving, which has got to be from the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of Jesus. So anything good that you do or think, that's from the Holy Spirit. Yeah, and the Holy Spirit in my life,
Speaker: He can help me point out things that convict me and I shouldn't use the word convict. Um, cause that might be confusing to people, but like he kind of pokes at me sometimes. Yeah. Like you're better than this. Don't do that. Yeah. Not in a guilty way because I don't think like any shame, any feelings of shame or judgment don't come from God.
Speaker: He is a God who wants to forgive, but he does want to point out where we may need to turn away from our sin, not to shame us, but to teach us. Yes, there's a difference. There's a difference, a subtle difference. And that's the difference between punishment and discipline. Like discipline, we automatically think is a bad word, but discipline's really a good word because it means disciple. It means to teach. And so you could,
Speaker: yell at your kids and rant and rave and tell them how bad they don't. Or you could be like, hey, you know what, you're actually better than this. Let me show you why this is important. You do it this way and why you don't want to do it that way.
Speaker: And I think being a parent is probably one of the best ways to get our hands around who God is because the way in which we love and teach our kids really does at least point us to who God is in our relationship with him. So let's start there because you said, you know, the first of the three persons of the Trinity or the three parts of God is God the Father.
Speaker: How do we see God as the Father showing up in the story?
Speaker: of God, right? Because the Bible kind of is this narrative, it's this story of God at work in the world, and it started with him as creator, and you mentioned creator being connected to the Father. So just briefly, if you think back through what you know about Scripture and about God at work in the world,
Speaker: How do we see him acting in that role as father? God as father thought it would be more fun to have a loving relationship with people instead of robots. Or I always say this to the kids I teach. I'm like, you know, I'm a dad. I've got five kids. It would be so much easier if I would just buy five American girl dolls instead. I've got four daughters and a boy.
Speaker: And I could just set them up. And whenever I wanted to feel the love or whatever, I could walk over there and have them sit on my lap or whatever. And maybe if it was like one of those really old school dolls with the string on the back of the... Oh, no, not those. You pull that thing up and it's, I love you, daddy. And I could do that, but it wouldn't be real. It wouldn't be authentic. Instead, I thought it'd be more fun if we actually, my wife and I had kids.
Speaker: Of course, they'll get a mess up. Of course, they trash the house. Of course, they keep you up at night. Of course, they make you worry. Of course, they make you stress. And of course, you love them and you get the love and return. Get this. I got this text from my son, 17 years old. All the text said was,
Speaker: Hey dad, I love you. Have a great day. Now, come on. Come on. Yeah. How does that make you feel? So you know what that did to my old dad's heart? And I texted him back. I said, son,
Speaker: Really made me smile. You make my heart happy. And I said, I'm so glad to be your father. Have a great day. Love you. Fats.
Speaker: at least pointing to the relationship God wants with us and how we should see our Father in heaven. He said, yeah, and you know what? And my son, he also screwed up royally on homecoming weekend. And I hope he doesn't listen to this. And anybody connected to my son, please don't tell him I said this, but he stayed out way, way, way past and dumb parents. It's our fifth grade. So I guess we stopped caring. I don't know.
Speaker: We did not give him a specific curfew. Oh, he broke a cardinal rule. I know, I just thought it was like, duh, of course you come home, you know, at night one. Right? That's just a given. Apparently not. A few hours later...
Speaker: came home. So he's not like this perfect, you know, little angel, just like I'm not a perfect little angel on earth. But God says I am, because I'm connected to a son Jesus who takes care of all my stupidness and creepiness and bad thoughts and bad ideas and bad words. And he says, I got that.
Speaker: I covered that. And so when God the Father looks at me, he sees nothing but awesome. You can't lose. You can't lose. So God created out of love. He created us to love and be loved by him. To love him and to be loved by him. That's what he wants.
Speaker: Yeah. And he created this world for us to enjoy in the midst of that. I mean, when you think about it, it is so remarkable that he didn't just create humans to be in relationship with him. He made this amazingly beautiful world for us to explore and us to enjoy and for us to like,
Speaker: See him, you know, I think about like when we look at the mountains or the ocean like I can't help but think about God when I marvel at the beauty of this world because He wanted us to like be really really happy
Speaker: Here's something I say not all the time, but I like to think of it when I wake up in the morning, and the prayer is this, God, I can see you opened my eyes to another day. Look at all this stuff.
Speaker: you know, and you just kind of go throughout the day and you can be like, man, I hate to get out of this nice warm bed. Thanks for the bed. Oh, wow. The water is warm in the shower. Huh? How amazing. Hey, even pop tarts, you know, and it's and you and then just look around, you know, if I would have made the world, it would have been like one color. If you think about it, it just blows your mind. But you can do that. Even if you don't get a chance to go to the mountains or the ocean, you could be like, wow,
Speaker: This pratwurst is really great. Thank you. So God created a world for us to enjoy, for us to be in it and love it and take care of it and not hate it. Yeah. So what happened? Because that all sounds so marvelous and then it's like, okay, but
Speaker: We live in a really messed up world and it can be hard to think of God as good when we experience so much pain and brokenness. So what went wrong? Yeah, what went wrong is and what still goes wrong is God is constantly saying, let me show you a better way. And we go, nah, no thanks. I think I'll try it my way. That's we all like to be.
Speaker: And that started from, if you want to go back to the very beginning, about the third chapter, is when Adam and Eve, you've heard of them maybe, and they said, hey, thanks for the advice, but no thanks. And they brought sin into the world.
Speaker: really cool thing is you just read down the line and God dishes out some reality, some punishment now that, oh, now this world's gonna be jacked up. But then he gives this really beautiful promise right away.
Speaker: at the end of the third chapter. And he says, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to make this all right. And the way he's going to do it is by sending his son, the second person of the Trinity, and he sends his son into the world and Jesus does all things well and nobody gets him. Nobody gets him.
Speaker: Like even his followers are like totally clueless, which is so great for you and me because I'm clueless too. And he goes on and he ultimately takes all what we call sin, all of our rebellion against God's ways. He says, I'm going to pay the price for it. I'm going to take the ultimate punishment so that you will never have to worry about that. You never have to deal with that.
Speaker: You stick with me, and I talked before about the Holy Spirit being a counselor, like a lawyer, and the lawyer goes before God the Father and says the punishment is already taken care of. A lot of people really freak out about
Speaker: I'm gonna be judged guilty. Judgment day, you've heard of that before, right? Oh yeah, or when you go to heaven and stand at the gates. Let me tell you some good news. The judgment is over. It's done. You already had our day in court. It's already been judged on Jesus.
Speaker: Jesus took, their judgment was carried out, but it was already paid for about 2 ,000 years ago by Jesus the Son on the cross. And it worked because we know that Jesus jumps out of the tomb three days later, and that was God's exclamation point that said, it's done, it's finished, the judgment is over.
Speaker: So mess, assured, and be happy. Be happy. God loves you. Be very happy about that. But yes, the world still is jacked up because it's not yet. It's like an and yet. The punishment person is taken care of. And yet, we're still alive. That means we still mess up. It's like my kid messes up.
Speaker: but the love's still there. And there are some big questions that I would love to ask God, like, you know, you look at the suffering throughout history, or even the suffering today, you know, how could that be right? Why don't you jump in and fix that? Why don't you take care of this? I've been to Africa many times and go, why, why?
Speaker: Yeah. Why do bad things happen to good people? You know, that's a question. That is a super big stumbling block and a big question. We're not unfortunately going to get every single answer taken care of. And to go back to the beginning, that was ultimately, um, what led to Adam and Eve's downfall, which is they wanted all the questions answered. They wanted to be like God,
Speaker: Yeah. And I don't know, all questions are good. Don't shy away from questions, but just know that it's basically a longing for us to get in the mind of God because we want to be like God to and have all the answers. And he says, how about this? I'll give you my heart. I won't give you all of my head. Some of my head. I'll give you some answers, but I won't. I'll be God and you be you.
Speaker: And I think we can't talk about God without talking about the fact that this life that we experience in the here and now is only like, I've heard it said, the cover page of the book, of our story. It's so easy to think everything we're experiencing now in this life is
Speaker: is all there is. And that just makes the pain even more unbearable. But when you think about the long view, it kind of helps. It really does. Yeah, Jesus says this repeatedly, which is, don't worry so much about this life. I know you're going to worry, but
Speaker: There is the life to come. Enjoy this life however long you have, but this ain't really the life. The good stuff's coming. Everything sad's going to be untrue, and all the good stuff won't be taken away, and the best is yet to come. A big quote you were thinking about is from C .S. Lewis, who says, whether you live to be 100 years or whatever,
Speaker: However, if you've had a super long earthly life, it's only the title and the cover page. And when you finally get to pass from this world to the next, you begin chapter one of the great story, which is the best book and each chapter is better than the one before. And it goes on forever and forever and forever. And so that's something that we can look forward to in the meantime. In the meantime, it can suck. Yes, totally.
Speaker: It can. And, you know, Jesus even said, like, he never sugarcoated what life was going to be like for people who followed him and believed in God. No. Yeah. Mostly he said, those who follow me pick up a cross and there's all kinds of crosses that we bear pick up and follow me. But one of my favorites is when he says, in this world, you will have trouble.
Speaker: But then he says, take heart. I've overcome the world. I love that. I love that. It's not denying that there's trouble in this world. He says, take heart because ultimately I'm fixing it. Yeah. So what about the question that if God is all powerful,
Speaker: Because we, you know, when you grow up in the church, you learn these characteristics of God, right? Help me remember what those are. God is good all the time, all the time. God is good. He's omnipresent. Yes, omnipresent. Which means he's with us everywhere. He's omniscient, which means he's all -knowing and he's all -powerful. So you get this kind of superhero
Speaker: vision in your mind of God can do anything. He's all powerful. He's everywhere on the earth and in the universe at all times. And he's all knowing like he knows what we're thinking. Yeah. Not only does he know everything that ever happened, he knows what we're thinking and he knows everything that will happen. Nothing is a surprise to him.
Speaker: is our taught understanding, which as we said at the beginning is so limited because we're human. But if that's the case and he can do all of this stuff and he knows what's going to happen,
Speaker: Like how do we wrestle with? Hitler. Hitler and war and. You're creepy child molester. That one I've got a problem with. The kid who gets cancer. Yes. Yes. I don't know. It just seems so opposite of what we think a good God would allow. And I think that is a huge stumbling block for a lot of people. It's a stumbling block for me. Yeah.
Speaker: And I might have been doing Jesus for 55 years. And it's a stumbling block to me. And at the end, I throw up my hands and say, I don't get it. I don't know. I don't know. But I know, I know, I know that you are good. And I know someday it'll all make sense. And what I'm going to do is trust you anyway. And that's super hard to do.
Speaker: And I don't know, I heard this from Tim Keller, and I think it's really smart. And I really try to believe it. But even still, I go, but he said this, that if you knew what God knows, you would ask for exactly what you're getting.
Speaker: And it's like, really, that's such a mind blower. Like, cause you would not ask for cancer or something like that. But I, I play this game in my head, like, okay, well maybe God knew like in three years down the road that something even more terrible would happen. And so he, in his love, it's gonna allow this to happen.
Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. It's the problem with not being God. And, you know, if I was talking to my junior high kids, I'd say, you know, when I had my little son and he was three years old and he sees a Snickers on the counter and I tell him, no, you're not going to get that Snickers. You're going to get this broccoli.
Speaker: And I could try to explain it to him like I could whip out the food pyramid and say you know, this and that and he'd look at me and go, Snickers! Right? He would not give a care about the food pyramid or nutritional value and all this. He just want what he wants because he thinks he knows what's best for him.
Speaker: And I think, you know, I look at God a lot of times and I say, snickers. And he says, you don't know. And he could try to explain it, but it'll never get in my little head. But what he does reveal to me is his heart. He does reveal to me that he always has my best interest at heart. And like I said, or you said, or we said, that's hard to believe sometimes. It really is.
Speaker: And that's when you throw up your hands or I throw up my hands and say, God, I don't get it. I don't understand it. I'm not you.
Speaker: but I'm going to go with you. And I can, I could say that because by looking at Jesus and some of the stories he told about, uh, you know, God, the father of the prodigal son's a great one. If you want it, they came to him and say, they said, who's God? He said, let me tell you a story. And he tells a story about this. She acts everything up, messes up royally in the father.
Speaker: runs this old man, runs down the road and embraces his son and hugs and kisses him and throws a party. He's not concerned about him messing everything up at all. And then Jesus says, that's God. Well, Jesus, who predicted many times over his own death and his resurrection, actually pulled it off.
Speaker: And because he actually pulled it off, I'm going to go with what he said. And he said, God is love and God is good. And even though I think in my opinion, humbly, Lord, forgive me, that it seems that God's not on the case sometimes, that he's sleeping, that he's not working the good in all things. And that's, you know, like I said, you just turn it over and go, okay,
Speaker: I don't get it. I think it's important for those of us who do know Jesus and who follow Jesus to acknowledge that we don't have it all figured out and to enter into that place of pain with people
Speaker: when they're in that dark place and they're asking the hard questions to not dismiss it, but to be like, it's okay to say to someone, I don't know, and I am mad at God too. Let's just be honest, that is a human response to suffering and it's okay to feel angry.
Speaker: Yes, there's a whole book of the Bible called the Psalms and David who knew God pretty well. He was a man described after God's own heart. So he had a really tight relationship with God. Apparently he tees off on God all the time.
Speaker: This isn't right. This isn't fair. Are you sleeping? What's wrong? Come on. Come to my rescue. Get with it. Jesus on the cross cries out. Why have you forsaken me? Why are you leaving me all alone? Oh, those questions are very real. And the beautiful thing is God can take it. He can take it. You don't have to be afraid of pouring your heart out and your disappointments or your anger or your fears.
Speaker: He's not asking her to be some freaking spiritual giant who always thinks the right thing says the right thing does the right thing. No, no, no, he do that. Yeah. That's really, really just want to stress the importance of being with people in their pain. And the fact of the matter is that God works through us. And even though we can't see God,
Speaker: as a person, we see each other. And because Jesus is in us, when people are in that place of darkness and pain, we can be the love of God that they see and touch and feel. And that does not mean having toxic positivity or throwing a Bible verse at them. It means being
Speaker: in the middle of it with them, not getting pulled down into it with them, but acknowledging it and loving and loving even when we don't know the answers. Yeah, because many times we don't know the answers, we don't know what to say, and that's okay. Don't say anything. Right, just be there. Just say, I'm with you. Yeah. I'm with you. And that's very Jesus -y.
Speaker: nine times out of 10, I really don't even wanna hear what you have to say. I don't want you to give me the magic words. One, because I know better, but two is just give me a hug or just show up, just show up. And to anyone who's listening, who's in that,
Speaker: dark place right now who is experiencing suffering and pain and loss. I just want to remind you that God truly is present with you. So even when you feel alone, and I know what it's like to feel like you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders and you can't see the way through, go in a quiet room, shut the door,
Speaker: And ask yourself this question, am I really alone?
Speaker: Somebody once said, she asks a question in this group I was in, she's like, how do I help someone who doesn't know God, like recognize that he could be, it could be true. And that's what she suggested. Go in a dark quiet room, close your eyes, block out everything and ask yourself that question. Am I really alone? It's almost a little creepy. It's almost a little creepy, but
Speaker: But that's really powerful because, and I don't know what you'll experience, but the more I get to know God, the more I can feel his presence.
Speaker: when I get in that still quiet place, like palpably feel him. And when you're suffering, it's such a comfort to know you aren't alone. Like this God we've been talking about that's all knowing and all powerful and all loving and omnipresent, He is with you, that God. And even just getting like the little tiniest truth of that,
Speaker: can be like a warm cozy blanket covering you. And I would say also, and people do come to me with some heavy stuff. Maybe their marriage is blowing up or maybe they just got a really bad diagnosis or, you know, heavy, heavy. And, you know, coming up with the right answers, I don't have all those right answers other than he's with you. And now,
Speaker: Now you can start paying attention, start listening, start opening your eyes, go around town in your car and you're going to see some stuff. These, I call them Scooby Snacks, but these little or Easter eggs, these little Easter eggs that God is hiding behind the tree waiting for you to see it.
Speaker: And all of a sudden, you start seeing these very coincidences, right? But they're not coincidences. God is reaching out to you. And all of a sudden, you turn on the radio and you're like, that's my favorite song. Or, you know, whenever somebody says something to you, you're like, if you pay attention, God is constantly, constantly, constantly
Speaker: trying to let you know he's with you. Yeah, it's really remarkable. When you start looking for those little treasures, they start to show up everywhere. It's a great reminder from him. Well, thank you. I know we have only like guns. I failed miserably on this, by the way, of trying to explain who God is.
Speaker: It's like, like I said, from the get go, though, if you gave me two weeks, two years, 22 years is how long I've been. I'm still trying. I just every week I say, Lord, I still don't think I'm getting it. I understand maybe like a pinkies worth. And that's what I do get. I love.
Speaker: I do. Well, we hope that this episode just sparked some new thoughts in you about who God is and what he might be up to in your life. And we're going to
Speaker: invite Jill into the conversation in the next episode. She has been listening in on our talk and making notes. We're going to see what questions she has for you, Chuck, and that'll be interesting as we explore this topic some more. So thank you for being here. It was a joy to have you, and we really appreciate you. Thank you. It was my pleasure.
Speaker: Thanks for listening to this episode. And if you would like to follow along online, normal goes a long way .com also on our social media outlets, Facebook and Instagram at normal goes a long way. And if there's any way that we can help you in your faith journey or answer a couple of questions, just
Speaker: Don't hesitate to reach out. That's what we're here for and I'd like to invite you back to listen to our next episode Here's a little sneak peek you guys mentioned the Trinity is very confusing to some and I would say confusing at all. Yes Like anyone who says I've got that nailed. Yeah, don't lie
Speaker: I feel like I have a better grasp on the Holy Spirit and Jesus than I do God. So when you say God, you could say, God, Jesus, God, God, Holy Spirit, God or God, Father, Creator, God. They're all God.
