Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Season 4- Episode 5- Nigel‘s, not Jackson‘s, Departure (Premiership Round 3)
37 Plays4 years ago
It is those American Rugby Knuckleheads back for your listening joy this week. In this week's episode, we dive into a bit from the news cycle including the ownership exchange at StoneX and some goings on in the Women's game down south, you know the other side of the equator. Naturally, we have a look at all the action from the Premiership in Round 3, although it wasn't the most exciting rugby we've ever seen. This, some good old banter and plenty more. Have a beverage and join us on TFRY!
Keep your eyes & ears peeled for our Patreon subscriptions, we are so close and can't wait to share it with you all! In the meantime, ask us questions via Twitter: Jarrod- jdyke8man & Ben- admrablsnackbar, and #AskTFRY. Send us your thoughts for the show and questions for upcoming shows via e-mail fantasyrugbypodcast@gmail.com. Of course we welcome feedback via e-mail, twitter or by rating/reviewing the pod on Apple Podcast.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Content Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back. It is a fancy review. It's my name is Jared Dike. I'm Ben Glaser. Get into it. We have lots to dig through. Thank you, New Cycle. You've given us way more content than we probably could possibly get through, but we're going to try. We're going to try. Quite a bit. Yeah.
00:00:26
Speaker
I'm sad.
Free Jacks Offseason: Optimism or Concern?
00:00:27
Speaker
I don't want to pop this because it is my last one. It's my last free jacks. Yeah. Until they, until the season comes around again, which should be like forever from now. I know it feels like it. Right. Although I'm glad it's free jacks hoodie season again. Just about there. Yeah. Love that flannel hoodie.
Podcast Promotion and Collaborations
00:00:45
Speaker
They've they've been busy. They've been busy this off season so far. They have pretty bringing back five, bringing back Wilson.
00:00:54
Speaker
Mm hmm. Adding. Shoot, what's in the Kiwi? Yeah, pretty pretty. I love that. Oh, yeah, that was a great ad. That was a great ad. I did mention they needed they did like it when I said they needed locks when they were talking about how to play to your team. Yeah. And you can play six on a pinch, too.
00:01:12
Speaker
Oh, it's delicious. Yeah. Oh yeah. You definitely can play six in a pinch. Yep. I like much. Um, obviously find us where you get your favorite podcast apps, download rate or podcasts, download rate review, all that
Advocacy Against Racism and Celebrating Diversity
00:01:24
Speaker
good stuff. Uh, by our friend, George, the fans for every geek coffee. Well worth it because you
00:01:31
Speaker
those of you that are waiting patiently on our Patreon, it's almost there. I swear to God. Well, you might as well just go by Georgia because we get a lot of our information from him. Anyway. Right. And then you'll see what we do with the Patreon when we get it up, which should be in the next few days. Hopefully that's certainly heading into next week. It will be ready. Yeah.
00:01:54
Speaker
And you'll have plenty of steps to, steps to sink your teeth into as well. Right. And I'll talk about that later. Yeah.
Saracens Sale: A New Era?
00:02:00
Speaker
Uh, tear them up. Great. Let's grab them while you can. Uh, you don't want to be left in the dust and getting, you know, all bottom shelf and stuff like, uh, some people are right now, especially after the last week. We'll talk about it later on, but man, it was painful.
00:02:14
Speaker
It was bad watching painful, but but the fantasy aspect, no joke, no joke. Yeah. So grab those upgrades, support, restart, rugby and all the good that they do. As always, Black Lives Matter on this podcast, and there is no room for racism. And here in America, we have a we have a holiday coming up and I don't know how much of a fucking holiday it is, but it recognizes the wrong things. So Ben and I do our best to recognize the right things.
00:02:43
Speaker
when it comes to that. So I don't call it that no more. So I do prefer the indigenous people's day. Yeah, yeah. Even there are people who are opposed to it, they'll, they'll at least give you a polite chuckle if you say it that way. And he's kind of like, yeah, fuck you. But yeah. Yeah.
00:03:00
Speaker
Why would we celebrate that asshole? Yeah. Ain't no need to celebrate shit like that. Right. It's not like we're in London Irish or something. Oh wait. Oh man. So bad. Oh man. There's a lot going on with the league that we're going to dive into in a second here. First of all,
Saracens' Controversial Success and Its Ripple Effects
00:03:20
Speaker
the the one Jackson Jackson now I got it in my head. Oh, man. I swear to God, I can't control my own brain sometimes. Very manipulative. Yeah. When I when I saw the that was the first thing I mentioned when I saw the the docket today. I'm like, oh, Jackson, right? He's leaving.
00:03:45
Speaker
Oh, man, because it just says Ray. So, yeah, yeah. Nigel Ray, Nigel has sold majority of the Saracens to consortium one, which is being led by Francois Pienaar, actually, which is pretty cool. Oh, OK. And that aspect in France, well, I believe played for the Saracens once upon a yesteryear. So maybe he obviously was impacted by it then. So he feels like he wants to get back to it. And, you know, there's a lot that can be said about it.
00:04:12
Speaker
There are people that will just never they'll dig their heels in forever about Nigel and never never ever care how good or bad Saracens have it from here out. Right. And those people can't be can't be messed with. They can't be changed. And I'm not going to bother with them. And we're sure that this shady consortium doesn't involve Tony Rowe at all. Right. Oh, we know that's that's that's a different. I will say, you know, amongst all the things. Yes, you broke the rules and he was bright and he was a little bit
00:04:42
Speaker
Uh, what the heck was the word reckless? There's the word that they use reckless. Um, but he, you know, at least he did it in the name of taking care of his players and looking after them and doing better than what he saw a lot of people, you know, going through, right? Through all this. Like, you know, was it wrong? Obviously they got fucking pain for it. Um, you know, but obviously, you know, everybody's like, Oh, they should be stripped of titles. Well, everybody had that conversation and nobody stripped their title. So not going to happen.
00:05:10
Speaker
You know, and of all the things that are going on in this league, is that really the worst thing that's going on right now? Yeah. I mean, the biggest scandal in potentially prem history is they were too serious about player welfare. So, I mean, I guess I know there's financials and there's that, but that's kind of the point is that they're not treating the players like pieces of meat that they just use up and spit out like so many other sports do. So,
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, they were punished appropriately and Ray was taking, and he stood up and took his lumps. As a responsible adult, he stood up and said, yeah, I did it. I tried to fix it and didn't quite fix it right the first time and then really took his lumps for it. Yeah. Of all the scandals that we've seen in sport,
00:06:10
Speaker
I think in the end, this will be remembered fondly by, by a lot of people. It's one of those, you might be, even if you're angry about it now, you'll look back in like 20, 30 years and be like, you know what? Yeah, he did the right thing. He was trying, he was trying to do the right thing. So I'm not that, yeah, it's, it there's a lot of bitterness, I guess, you know, by, by some clubs that are jealous that they don't win, but that's not, yeah, they still played the, you know, the players went out there and played and, and, you know,
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah, there was nothing on field. There's no on field shit going on. You know, that was the thing like, yes, it was off field stuff. And yeah, we talked about.
00:06:49
Speaker
Every, you know, the game checks that were going to these players were all legal. They were completely there. That's exactly what it was. They were within the boundaries. It was just the extracurriculars that were not cleared by Ray and company. And they got punished for it. And that's just how it goes. But like, of all the things that are going on in this, you know, and they put, listen, let's be real. They put another team on them. He put another team on the map for Prem. You know, before it was WOS, it was Tigers. It was, um,
00:07:19
Speaker
a little bit of bath, you know, saints, those were the clubs, those were the clubs. And he put another one in the pot and said, here you go, have fun. And, you know, a lot of people kind of pooped themselves a lot when it happened.
00:07:37
Speaker
And if you look at it, a lot of those clubs have since and by I mean since and I mean in the last couple of years, including this year for one of them for like the Lester side, they have since worked up their game because they got complacent for too long. And now they're suddenly like, oh, no, this is how we have to play. And it's not quite the same game that, you know, it's not the not not the mid 90s anymore.
00:07:59
Speaker
It's certainly not the mid, mid, mid aughts, you know, we're 15 or so years past that, you know, this is the way rugby is played now. And, you know, as the Harlequins can attest to, you got to play some, you know, attacking rugby, you can't just, you know, bottle it up, as we'll get to in a little bit. But yeah, I thought, you know, that was kind of part of what what Ray has brought is that kind of defense where you have to do, you know, you can't just
00:08:26
Speaker
run at Saris and expect to win. You have to actually challenge them if you want to defeat them. Yep. And you know, and everybody says, oh, it wasn't built on the Wolfpack. Yes, it was. Yeah, it was. Shut up. Yes, it was. Yeah, they can attack, but you just will not score. Like for all the things we talk about with, you know, especially even fantasy wise, with, you know, some of the greatness of those players as fantasy players,
00:08:53
Speaker
They're also, if you're one of your guys are playing Saris, you fucking bench them because they're not scoring shit. So for the most part. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, Ray, you know, Nigel did a great job.
Gender Disparity in Rugby Coaching
00:09:06
Speaker
And then I hope in the long run, he's remembered more for the good that he did rather than the mistake he made by taking two good care of his players.
00:09:15
Speaker
He he will always be a savior in my eyes. Yeah, especially as a game in the end, especially as a guy that was latching on to the Saracens for, you know, all my own reasons, most of which were concerning Chris Wiles and a little bit. But, you know, just yeah. And there's always an eagle on the on the series, always.
00:09:38
Speaker
Seems to be the home away from away from it here. Yeah. So, yeah, he will. He will not be forgotten for one reason or another. Yeah. Oh, man. Big announcement of the Southern Hemisphere. Super Bowl Pookie. Something to that degree. Yeah. Women Super Bowl. Hell yeah. All right. Either way. It's going to be awesome.
Growing Support for Women's Rugby
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah. I'm so excited for that league to kick off and
00:10:03
Speaker
Elise Sopper did make a point and she said she's a huge advocate for the women's game down there. No women's coaches are leading these teams, which I do find concerning. I think there's gotta be at least one or two good candidates that they could have put in front and said, yep, this woman is the head coach of this women's team. That would make sense, but I guess we can't. I don't know what the pay they're looking at and what the,
00:10:32
Speaker
You know, all that, it might not be, and I hate, I'm not trying to sound like, oh, maybe they just don't want to coach. No, maybe they can't really, maybe they need to be doing other things that maybe are more lucrative for themselves than coaching at the moment. I'm sure a few of them would snap your hand off at one of these opportunities at the same time. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, there's got to be someone, but then they qualify. So it's like, I hope that if I'm in charge of this, if I was king of the world and this is what was happening, I would say. King of the world!
00:11:03
Speaker
This is allowed, but as a part of it, each team has to have a coaching intern, sorry, a coaching development.
00:11:13
Speaker
It doesn't have an internship, but an actual paid position. Paid would be nice. Paid where you're developing, you're going to coach. You will be the next coach. But for now, we need this person who is extremely experienced. There's so much more to coaching than just teaching rugby.
00:11:35
Speaker
So there's, you know, it helps to be able to see that. That's why, you know, a lot of NFL head coaches are assistant coaches first, things like that. You know, you have to actually learn what it means to be that head coach. So I'm hoping that that's what they're doing. Yeah. I hope that as well. So it'll be great. It'll be great for the women's game down there. And, you know, I'm sure some of these other national teams are very jealous about what they're
Spotlight on Kate Zachary and Eagles' Development
00:12:01
Speaker
the way and those, and I will say this, those, those teams, those super elite teams, the players on the men's side, they're, they're so into the supporting those teams as well. Like, I think we saw it last year with the blues. Their men's team was just all about that. That was Smith. Oh, Eric Smith's huge into it. Yeah. Yeah. He loved somebody said something and he was like, excuse me.
00:12:01
Speaker
doing.
00:12:23
Speaker
He will be the biggest. He is definitely like the big. He's going to be the biggest South Island fan for that team. No doubt. No doubt in my mind. So, yeah, I love love nugs. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So that'll be great for that game and that that that country's national team because they need help. Yeah. Coming bouncing back north. Kate Zachary, player of the week. Wait. Oh, we reckon stay down south for now.
00:12:51
Speaker
No, not yet. OK, we'll get there. All right. We'll get there. Don't you worry. OK. Oh, there's plenty. There was something that happened. Yeah, there was. There was. But yeah, Kate Zachary, player of the week out of Devon there. Yes. Yeah. See, this is why I I fucking love how many Eagles are playing in Allianz. It is just.
00:13:14
Speaker
Oh, it's so fantastic to see. It's what we need for so many reasons, and it really does. To me, it shows that our, if anything, our women's side, I feel like there's more, it just feels like it, that there's more women in allions than there are, or eagles in the allions than there are men. I think that's accurate, yeah.
00:13:35
Speaker
And they're playing really well and they're developing. Alicia Washington has come so far, so far in her career from being yelled at by Phaedra Knight for kind of shirking her rocking responsibilities. Because she was always known that she was an attacker, like when I coached against her when she played at Hartford, Hartford of all places, the women.
00:13:59
Speaker
Right. And she was I mean, you could see she was amazing. She was an eight and she just she was their player when she got the balls. I got well, fuck that she's gone. But she didn't do she didn't do any work on defense and she didn't do any support work. It was all like I get the ball and I run. But that's all she needed to do. That was her role. And she brought that to the Eagles and they were like, Phaedra Knight, as I said, set her right. Yeah. And that was a couple of that was only a couple of years ago. And now she's deservedly starting to start her for with Worcester and
00:14:28
Speaker
Same thing with all these other women that are there, like Kate Zachary. They're not only earning that opportunity, but they're showing that they can be among the best. Fucking love it. I'm as excited as you are about this and only good things happen. Looking good for it.
00:14:53
Speaker
OK, now we can go back to the literature. Wait, wait, what did I see? Did I did I see an entertaining game? Yeah, it was a good match again. Really good match. Wow. Really good. Yeah, it helps when both sides want to play a little bit. A little. Yeah. You know, and that's the thing. South Africa actually attacked with it in an expansive way because they you know, they had to. And that was the game. They didn't just bottle it up.
00:15:24
Speaker
And they won. Yeah. Amazing stuff. Amazing stuff. Fantastic. I loved watching that match. So much great rugby that happened in both teams. As an advertisement for rugby, that was a good one right there. Absolutely.
00:15:45
Speaker
It's so much better than that hypothetical tour that happened earlier. Something that happened in July. I was supposed to, but I don't fucking remember anything. I've forgotten whatever it was. And Elton Yancey, take a bow. He is not my favorite player, but he played extremely well coming in. I was like, oh, there. I saw him on the bench and I thought, oh, they're so fucked.
00:16:11
Speaker
And friend stain, the ageless wonder, my Lord, where is he drinking that fountain of youth from? I wish I had access to that. But yeah, right. Yeah, I just couldn't believe my eyes the whole time. I was like, just yes, why couldn't why couldn't why can't we get this more? Yeah. And it really is down to
00:16:38
Speaker
You know how the other teams actually play South Africa it's not once again, I have a common convert, and then we'll say is not South Africa's fault that their games are boring. It's the opposition's fault that they're Yeah, you try and play that game. It's always going to get to boring stuff. Yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker
And I only caught a glimpse of the team of the tournament, but quite Cooper was named as the 10, which is what a what a way for him to just kind of rear his head back into the international rugby universe. Like, hello. But it's not like there were, you know, too many good tens in that tournament. No, none whatsoever. Oh, man. You know, I will say one thing for the sake of
00:17:24
Speaker
a couple of South Africans that were on that team, but didn't see a lot. The Dupree brothers, Dan and JL. Dan got in against the Pumas for like 10 and 20 minutes each, I think. And JL never saw the field. So, you know... Sales can have some pissed off seconds. Oh, he's going to be mad. Yeah, no doubt. You know, he'll be back for a little bit and then he'll probably go back to playing with the team when they get back to when they get to the Northern Hemisphere. So...
00:17:54
Speaker
Or maybe not at all. You might never get released. Never know. That's true. So we'll see. But anyway, South Africa at least show a little bit a little bit of something and beat New Zealand. Teams got the best record against New Zealand. So it says something. It does. It does. Another international match of different variety. Eagles rugby world qualifier this past weekend against Uruguay out in Colorado.
USA Rugby's Altitude Struggles: What's Next?
00:18:21
Speaker
Started well.
00:18:23
Speaker
and then got worse. I mean, the Dolan try was absolutely amazing. Oh, fan-fucking-tastic. I wanted more. I wanted more of that. Yeah. I wanted more of that. Unfortunately, we didn't get it. Here's my problem. So this game was played in Colorado at altitude, very high, very difficult for visiting teams, very hard for home teams, you know, any leader.
00:18:52
Speaker
And the Eagles fell off. They scored 19 points in the first half and then none the second half. And they gave up what, three points in the first half and then 13 in the second half. Why is your opponent
00:19:07
Speaker
getting stronger and at altitude than you. And why are you falling off? Like that's what the, I mean, we saw what they saw against Canada that, that they can, you know, kind of have a poop game in the first match and maybe it'll get better. But that was different because it was a way. And then home, this was home. And now you're going to Uruguay with a three point or two point cushion, three, three.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. No, it was 19. Was it 1916? I thought it was 19. Oh, maybe it's 1917. I don't remember. It doesn't matter either way. It wasn't either way. It's not a very fun cushion. Basically, you have to win 1916. I mean, so they scored 13 points the second half. That's my fault. So fuck. I'm not I'm I'm not happy. I'm in school. I know. I'm I'm going to be freaking ripping my shirt apart the whole the whole night when we played this going weekend here.
00:20:03
Speaker
Put it this way. I'm rooting for Canada in their matchup against Chile because for for Karma. Yeah, a little juju. And they need and they need it worse than we do. Right. They have a one point margin loser. Loser of that is out. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty terrifying. Our children are called into that spot. So let's go. That might be their superhero that comes to the rescue. We'll see.
00:20:28
Speaker
We shall see. Yeah. So squeaky bump times for both the, uh, the big North American teams here. Oopsie. I didn't know that was going to happen. But yeah, that, that Dolan tribe is absolutely fantastic. It was gorgeous. And yeah, it was a hot Piffletti. Oh, brilliant. Like a ton of individual greatness, but they knew when it was their time to be done.
00:20:55
Speaker
And so they did something awesome, then did their part and said, all right, it's next man up, your turn.
00:21:03
Speaker
as a whole, the whole flow of it, you know, from the was a cruiser, his self line out that he threw to himself. Yep. And then ran, took it into tackle, but with his support. And then that just opened up everything for, for the attack right off of it. So no more of that, please. Yeah. More of that, please. They are, they're already in my tomato as far as I know. So at least they're getting acclimated to the situation down there. Right.
Bristol's Performance: A Comeback Story
00:21:26
Speaker
Right.
00:21:26
Speaker
All right, let's go to the prem. We've got about 20-ish minutes. We're going to burn through it as fast as possible. We'll see how fast that is. There's no controversy in the prem. Never, ever. Very straightforward. Never, ever. To Ashton Gate first, the big one, Bristol and Bath. It looked like Bath was going to take this for a little while.
00:21:47
Speaker
did. Um, they, Bristol really came out of the gates slow. Um, took them a little bit to get going. Uh, and yeah, Murano Jomo, it's like, they only need two players that attack apparently. So, I mean, and yeah, a little bit, but Mira was a workhorse. This game just absolutely amazing. Just superb effort from a guy that's just never looked like he was ever going to stop. Right.
00:22:16
Speaker
Um, and JJ looked good, but early, but then we were talking, we were talking during the match and it was like 20 minutes in and JJ was all over the place. And, and we're like, this is not a guy you want to give this many opportunities to, um, but he kind of pooped out pretty, pretty soon after that. So, um, a little long on the tooth now, I suppose. Um,
00:22:39
Speaker
But I want to mention, you know, on the other side, though, Kyle Sinclair, that tackle on the far wing after a lineup. Yeah, what the hell, man?
00:22:47
Speaker
You're not supposed to do that, man. No, you don't do that. You're not supposed to do that. How do you do that? You are a prop. You are not supposed to do that stuff, man. Right. Just disgusting. Well done. Yeah. But that's that's the kind of heart he brought. I mean, you know, he's he's coming back from the Lions tour and decided to end his rest early because he's like, no, I'm ready to go. And you know, he's there for his team. His heart is in it. We saw it in the post game and they fed off of it. Him and Joe Joyce.
00:23:17
Speaker
King, the king, the king. He had 30 meters for the king and got loose a little bit. So fun, absolutely fun to watch. It was, yeah, I mean, fantastic match to watch. Jake Kerr, maybe he should have started. So he seemed to have it a little bit more than, than well Cape on. And we thought, well, Cape on was going to have himself a day, but obviously Kerr was, yeah, very wrong. He got, he definitely got loose. Daddy, he's not getting loose though.
00:23:47
Speaker
Is Callum Sheedy? No, he's looking a little, a little dragged. Yeah. A little dragged. Him and Randall were a little, it took him a while to get out. Well, Sheedy never got going and Randall got replaced by Uran, who kind of also didn't really pick it up, so. No.
00:24:07
Speaker
bad, bad day for a bunch of bears, but picked up by their, you know, their stalwarts, you know, this was definitely, you know, Sinclair made that, that individual effort. But, and, you know, kept that, their, their heart, their souls in it. And, uh, Joe Joyce, Heenan, Luitua, the, you know, the guys who were like, and Sam Bedlow, shit, it was there like kind of workhorse guys that, you know, helped win the game. The Vooey's, you know, um,
00:24:34
Speaker
the Peers, I don't know what the fuck Peers O'Connor is at all. Pia Tal is... Yeah, he's starting to fade a little bit here. Yeah, they got it. How do they not get these guys involved more in doing things? Oh, one thing I noticed, I wanted to mention it last week.
00:24:50
Speaker
One thing the bears don't do when they're passing wide is run at the line while they do it. They're kind of letting the defense come up. And then at some point, somebody's got to say, oh, well, at this point, fuck, I'm fucked. I got to take it in. And that's why they're not going anywhere. When all it would take is if you start attacking and now instead of only one passing option,
00:25:10
Speaker
The, the, you know, the guy with the ball has to, we can throw a wide ball. Now the defense has to adjust to it, but they're, they're, they're really passive in attack when they're going wide. They're, they're soaking up the meters and letting the defense come to them. And it's not.
00:25:24
Speaker
The results are there. No. Yeah. So I'm sure they'll hopefully figure it out at least. Yeah. I see it. Fucking Pat Lamb has seen it. I'm sure he has. I'm sure he has. But Bristol finally off the mark and they're they're hopefully looking to climb up a little bit here.
00:25:42
Speaker
Until they run into Quinn's. I know. We'll see how this match goes this weekend. Geez. Friday night. That'll be a dinger. I'm going to tant in London Irish at Franklin's Gardens. Really, this match, you can probably, you know, look at one 12-minute period where London Irish did not do a good job of taking advantage. And that was when both Appy and Paul Hill were in the bin.
00:26:09
Speaker
Right. This did not take advantage, I think. They got one penalty try. That was it. Yeah. So they didn't score the entire time. No, between that, yeah. And then Dan Bigger hit the penalty at the end of it. So it was really like a four point margin for that whole, yeah. No, that was it. And as much as the Irish came back in the end, they didn't take advantage early enough.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, they'll kick themselves for that one for sure. Yeah. I think so. The, the, the, the Matt Proctor try was just super with, with, uh, I think it was for bank that are bigger, whichever one it was chipping through and just well read. And it was on advantage. So they tried something fun.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, either one of them, it doesn't matter. They both, whichever one, it was brilliant. Because I remember being impressed. No, because Dan Bigger did not have a tri-assist for a bank did, so I'm going to go back for a bank. Yeah, that was brilliant. Absolutely amazing. It was just picture perfect. I was like, yeah, that was the best moment of the match right there, probably. Although, Parton turned on the Jets. Parton turned on the Jets for his. I will say that. So, yeah.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah, because England don't need a back three player anytime soon, do they? Shit. Yeah, he's on a long line right now. There's a long old queue for that one. Unfortunately, those back three players for England. But yeah, it was good. It was good stuff from the Saints for the most part. A little ugly because of the weather, which we know across the board, pretty much. Yeah.
00:27:43
Speaker
Hey, that's where we're at. Saints are nobody to mess with. They're proving that this year so far, I would say. Let's go to Worcester and Gloucester. This was not
00:28:00
Speaker
or was the result we were expecting? I don't know. This looked like a little bit of return of what we expected from the Warriors. Right, but they still scored 23. They did. They still scored two tries. They had a lot of opportunities that they screwed up, though. Yeah. I mean, one of them is that after the, you know, at the death, the clock was ready. Yeah, by the way, this was at the decimal. I don't know how much you want to count down. Right. But they, yeah, they felt they completely fell apart second half.
00:28:26
Speaker
It was not, because I was like, oh, this is a tight game. This is a tight game. And literally next thing I knew, it was not a tight game anymore. Nope. Yeah. It was a tight game. Adam Hastings pulling the strings for Gloucester. Jason Woodward. Yeah. In return as well. Yes. Absolutely amazing. So I think that's a good combination right there. If I was George Skivington, I'd be riding that up for a little bit. And I'm pretty sure Chris Harris,
00:28:54
Speaker
is a good rugby player too. First, first touch. I mean, it was a great kick from Adam. Yeah. Wow. Just wow. I was like, what is that? That, that, that happened. That happened. Wow. Yeah. I think Worcester was saying the same thing.
00:29:14
Speaker
What the fuck just happened? Oh my God. I just felt a sharp pinch. What's going on? Yeah. And just first touch of Chris Harris is like, yep, can't ask for it any better. Yeah. First touch back. Good for him.
00:29:32
Speaker
Oh, man, but Owen Williams, poor devil, like he's been playing so well for this team. And have we heard on a kick? Yeah, on a kick. I haven't heard any news on it. Unfortunately, I wish that's I think it's probably going to be growing. Oh, he's definitely popped something, no doubt. Yeah. So I'm guessing it's going to be a little bit. It'll be New Year easily. I would wager. Oh, you think I was thinking maybe, you know, sometime after I'd say December, but
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, I bet. Could be. I don't know. I bet new year. If you popped it, good. It's new year. If you did. Yeah, it depends on the, on the, the severities. Wouldn't be shocked. So yep. Uh, I do feel pretty bad for them there. And unfortunately their only replacement is Billy Searle. I might play, I might stick Shillcock in there. Honestly, I like him just a little bit better. I do. I do too. Um, and Shillcock hasn't been doing, he's not really contributing all that much from fullback. So.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, apart from the first game. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Oh yeah. And the Ted Hill red. Oh, it was a red all day. I was like, Oh yeah. And I understand Lloyd Evans foot and you know, got it out of control, but you know, he didn't really quite, you didn't really make the contact that people are looking for in that situation. Um, and really Ted Hills was worse. So that's the one I'm going for anyway. Yeah.
00:30:54
Speaker
So sorry, Teddy Hill, you're going to be sitting on the fine for a little bit. Three weeks.
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you got you got cited as well. That's right. And then to the place of another citation, Kingston Park up in the tune, Newcastle and Wasse.
Newcastle's Upset Win: How Did They Do It?
00:31:12
Speaker
Not definitely not the result I was expecting here. But also it tells me that it's going to be a tough place to go, which is not news really for a lot of people. No, it's to go up to Kingston Park. Right. It's good news because they're a pretty decent team now. So yes.
00:31:30
Speaker
But the yeah, I like it again, just like you said about the series, another good team you have to fucking now you have to watch out for him. Yeah, you gotta rock up for that one. A couple of back rows are putting their hand up this in this one, one on each side there. Although that's a that's a pretty handy sign that the Newcastle Falcons had last year with Carl France. He's he's settled in quite well. He has now scored a try in all three matches.
00:31:57
Speaker
But I think two of them were disallowed. Well, that one counted. I think with that in mind, we're looking at a streak. This is something to keep your eye on, Ferns.
00:32:15
Speaker
yeah he's getting there he's gonna keep causing problems yes he is and i thought that was uh yeah just bullied the guy out of the way like excuse me that's the trial line i need to get to there pardon me but also um the um the winning try from chick
00:32:30
Speaker
That was nice. A little bit of brilliance right there. I think it was, was that continent, Fred, the last one? I believe so. Yeah. So kind of saying, I want to start again. Damn it. Yeah. I think he will. Yeah. I think he took the game. I think, I think he took the team up a little bit when he, when he came on. So, uh, to his credit that, that, uh, he's definitely put his hand up for the 10 shirt next week.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think he's got it. He played all right there for the first couple of matches. So I think this was just I think this is arrest more than anything. I don't think this is punishment. I think it was a little half arrest and half give Havenwood a shot. And, you know, when shit got real, they brought in their their starting 10. And I think, yeah, I think they're starting to know.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Hayden was only 20 years old, like, right? Give him some run. Let him get it. Let him get the experience. That's great stuff. Tom Willis. Shit. I mean, Tom Willis is just absolutely on fire lately. You know, we just Can you imagine when they get his brother back to? Yeah, that's terrifying. Where are they going to put people?
00:33:34
Speaker
You know, Augra is going to the bench. There's no doubt about that. Well, that's for sure. Yeah. Um, I would keep shields on the field and stick Augra on the bench. Yeah. And then I guess you just kind of rotate through with, um, Oh, shoot. What's his name? Um,
00:33:50
Speaker
about Tommy Young. He's hurt, I think, right? When he's and Jack are healthy, they'll rotate four guys through those three positions. They'll have a nice little back row to pick from. Right. With O'Gray on the bench and Ben Morris. Yeah, they're fucking deep there. Yeah. And then one last guy I want to talk about in this match and we'll move on.
00:34:15
Speaker
I really want to see Dan Robson wear the number nine shirt for England. Like he hasn't worn it very often. He's come off the bench more often than not. And even in the games, like you thought, why isn't Dan Robson starting? And he didn't. And it's like, he's so fucking good. Like, I don't get it. I mean, we've talked about Eddie. So yeah, he's always a problem.
00:34:41
Speaker
It's just like, how can you not want that? Like not only does he make you good, he makes them bad. So. Generally. Yeah. Use him. Yeah. He's brilliant. I love, I love Dan Robson. I hope he gets another run. Okay. Um, now let's go to the tough one.
Referees and Controversial Calls: Fair or Foul?
00:35:02
Speaker
Lester and Saracen's not a game for anybody that was a neutral.
00:35:06
Speaker
If you're a neutral, you turn to what you turn this game off very fast. Yeah, there's no question about it. Absolutely. It was a snooze fest. There's no doubt about it. And there were some moments that were that were good and bad. But at the same time, you know, it really boiled down to those last two minutes. And that's where swear and in so many ways, you don't want to put yourself in that position. But when you play a good team against a good team, it's going to happen.
00:35:34
Speaker
Right. And Sari has played it brilliantly to start. They were controlling the game, they were controlling the territory, controlling the scoreboard.
00:35:45
Speaker
And yeah, they were playing it a lot like a test match. It looked a lot like a Lions match. Not a great, not a great. Not quite an endorsement, obviously. But they're, you know, they did have some sloppy play and attack. I'm done. If Billy Vunapola knocks on another ball and gets stripped. Who wants them? Anybody want them? You can have them for free. Go ahead. See ya. That's awful, Billy. I mean, that's just a lack of desire right there. Yeah.
00:36:16
Speaker
So, but they didn't, they never went for the jugular. And so that's why it, you know, when I walked away from that match and you can attest to this, I was probably frustrating the fuck out of you as long as along with everyone else. I'm like, yeah, I can't really be that mad. Like Sarri's, they didn't score a try and you let the other team kind of stick around because again, they played it like a test match. Yeah. They wanted it close. And then you made, you gave the, you put yourself in a position to make, let the referee make a bad call. Although I, you know,
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah, we'll get to that. But I just didn't, you know, I was fine. I was like, you know what? It's a loss. Big fucking deal. It was. We're going to lose matches. It was in a way. What do you like? In a way, it went well for an away loss at welfare drugway. You picked up a bonus point. Right. Your team's still not, you know, this is this is only the second match back on the prem. They gave themselves a chance, really, is what it came down to. And, you know, it's not great rugby, but at the same time, while they're still trying to get the feeling of them back into the prom.
00:37:14
Speaker
you could do worse and defense is the one thing that can save you in this situation. So that's why they've kind of clamped down on that. And then they'll open it up later on, obviously. It was good to see Max Malins back in the black shirt. Yep. I want to see him do more, but oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. I agree. He did some amazing things. Okay. That's not fair because he did some fucking amazing things, but it was like,
00:37:39
Speaker
sliding to snag a ball right off right before it hits the turf and not knocking it on like stuff like, dude, that was so cool. Yeah, things don't show up. Right. Not so much of a dude you see him beat three people in score try. That's the I'm looking for that. That'll that'll happen. That'll come. That'll happen. Yeah, it's not the best back three for Saracens includes him. No doubt.
00:37:59
Speaker
Exactly. On the other side, another back three player that, you know, we've talked about a lot and I really. Frederick. I thought he should have started. You could tell the difference when he came on like Freddie Stewart, just Frederick. He totally, you know, made a huge difference when he stepped on the field for the Tigers. So I mean, really just putting his hand up for this fall or this spring, depending on which one you you really value more. Yeah. Great, great, great job to him when he came on.
00:38:29
Speaker
But yeah, and to your point from earlier, when we're talking about Parton, like all these great 15s, you know, it's going to be not just your 10 versus 10, but like, shit, you know, at some point these games are going to be like Max Malins versus Freddy Stewart. Like, you're going to see that match up. Like, yes, I will pay to see that match up. Yeah, good stuff there. Yeah, I was impressed with him for sure.
00:38:53
Speaker
My take on the game has changed though, in recent days, including as early as for us this morning, when Dan Kelly was cited for three weeks for his retaliation on Aladevi's after the alleged penalty. After the whistle, yeah. Right. And it's like, okay.
00:39:14
Speaker
And I was pissed. Christophe, this is one of those again. I'm done with him. Like, I'm over him. Come on, kid. I tried. I tried. I tried to give him a chance for a year and a half and I'm over him. I really did. How many times? So like, because it would be the tiki tackiness kind of absolutely pisses me off now, because if you're going to be tiki tacky, be tiki tacky about everything, you know, if you got to get cited, that means you fucked up by not calling it when you were tiki tacky on Davies.
00:39:41
Speaker
And I'm also thinking, you know, when people are like around the touch line, some laws kind of go away, like the no arms tackle, how many times do you see a guy kind of just get into touch? Yeah, just a little shove and maybe nothing in it, but just enough to place him into touch. And the referees are like, Okay, fair play, you know, whatever he went into touch, like,
00:40:01
Speaker
That's the, and to do that right at the, yeah, just. At the death. I'm not upset about the, you know, the loss. Like I said, I'm over it. I was over it right after it happened. I'm just like, the officiating has got to be better than that. That's just a poor way. That's a poor, poor job by an official to
00:40:22
Speaker
way that was managed. You know, to call the ticky tackiness, but not call the retaliation, which was cited eventually. It was like you're putting a team in the position where, yeah, that changed the outcome of the game unnecessarily. That's really what it is. Because when you talk about a, you know, the first thing they talk about at ref school, and I've said this a couple times, is
00:40:47
Speaker
you officiate a game and you want to make a call when it impacts the game and it's like material to the game. In this case, it was neither. It was a guy sliding into touch. If Alan Davies had not done anything, he still would have gone into touch because he had been dragged in. So it didn't affect the outcome of that particular play. It really wasn't that
00:41:08
Speaker
that big a deal that, that he, he, he impacted him and dove into him. It wasn't like he fucking speared him in the head or anything like that. Yeah. He just kind of got, he shoved him in the touch from the deck. Okay. Move on. You know, yeah, that was the, that maybe that, that, that rates at most a finger way.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. It fucked everything up, so. I agree, especially at the time that you decided to do it, you know. Yeah. If that's at minute 30, it's nothing. If that happens at minute 50, he's probably not calling it. That's the other thing. He called it because it was the end of the match, too. Right. Right. So, like, he wouldn't have, he would not have called that at any other point. He'd just been like, yeah, okay, whatever. You know, it happened. Very unlikely. Very unlikely. So, yeah, just poor, very poor.
00:41:50
Speaker
Extremely poor. And, you know, and that's not a call I see more than I've seen more than twice in my life. Right. And that's for a reason, you know, I've been playing rugby since I was 16. Like, right. I've seen people do that more than twice. You know, I'm not I'm not the most brilliant rugby man out there, but I like to think that I'm somewhat of a student of the game and I can pick up on shit like this. Yeah. So for an American. Yes. Those hammerheads. OK, let's go to the Sunday game.
00:42:19
Speaker
A little bit better rugby because the weather wasn't quite as shite up in Salford. Sale 15, extra 25. And again, it comes down to, in some ways, a 10 leaving the field for sale. And that's really unfortunate. Against Exeter late, huh? Sounds well, right? Sounds awfully familiar.
00:42:44
Speaker
I'm not saying anything, but I'm saying something if you hear something, something, something not quite right here. But yeah, it's. And then the rent for a red, red card just adds salt to the moon. Totally, totally legit. There's there was zero argument for that. No, none. I was like, bye, dude. See you. Even my wife's just like, he's getting sent off as me. I'm just like, yeah, he's definitely getting sent off.
00:43:12
Speaker
I was like, okay, so if she's thinking it's a send-off, it's probably a send-off. It's a send-off. Oh, man. We did see an emergence. Yeah. We did see an emergence of a very large presence on this field. Like, wow. The big bus was tired afterwards, too. Yeah. He's like, I'm done. I mean, that was... Yeah, I...
00:43:42
Speaker
Big man, go for it. Go for a jog, kicking the ball around the park. Yeah, we jumped, you know? And another guy that kind of came to fruition in this match that we haven't seen put in the kind of performance he had, which, you know, obviously his opposite number being off the field helped Henry Slade.
00:44:02
Speaker
took advantage of what was in front of him at the very least. So credit to him for at least doing that. There are so many people that would have the situation that he had in front of him and completely botch it and not do a fucking thing about it. So to his credit, he saw it and he did not miss. He went for the jugular and made sure that sale paid. And I didn't feel like he was getting much help from his 10. So the fact that he was doing it as a 13 and guiding the team, taking the kicks, all that stuff.
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah. Skimmer came off, uh, 53. Yeah. 53. Yep. I didn't think that Joe was all that good either. Oh, Simmons was came in pretty cold. So yeah. Yeah. He didn't really. So it's like, he really got fucking that's late. Got nothing. And he was still, you know, one of their best players. I do want to give a shout out to capstick for being fucking awesome. This match too. Yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
you know, another one of those guys from Exeter that you want to see more of. And, and for some reason, Baxter doesn't like we're going to see, we're going to see David Uris before we see him, which is, I know we saw him today and yeah, I was hoping he would trip over a rock or something.
00:45:08
Speaker
don't really do anything. No, because he's, he is just a guy like there's no other way to describe this big caveman of a dude. Other than he is just a guy that dude's like a gorilla, especially the way guys hunchback going like, there's no other way to describe him. Right. And I do I yeah, I don't still understand why people have a
00:45:31
Speaker
liking for him, because as a player, because he doesn't, he's got a great set. He's a Jag. He's the ultimate Jag. He's just a fucking guy. He doesn't do anything great. He just does the solid stuff. He's, he's a, he's a journeyman if there ever was one and, and capstick could be a star. Um, but I did like him. He took, put his hand up and it's like, look, you know how you use.
00:45:53
Speaker
Sami, I can do some of that too. I'll do a little bit of it here and there. And if they just figured out that if they had Sam on the left and CapStick on the right and an attack, holy shit, how much, you know, just rove. You just rove over there. Two attacking forward to really help this team, I think. Yeah. Just a little bit. Not having Sam do it all would help everybody. So let's. Yeah, I'm sure he'd like some of the workload off of him. Yeah, no doubt. So Exeter, get back into into winning ways just the same sale.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah, really this, this tense situation for them is dire at this point. We might see Karen Wilkinson this weekend, which I'm kind of interested. I kind of liked how he played. I am interested in seeing how he does from a, from, from a start. I would like to see that. So, um, you might as well, if you're Sanderson, you have nothing to lose. So you might as well try it. Right.
00:46:42
Speaker
Go total shit house rugby and have him and Quirky and just fucking. Oh, yeah. I mean, I hope he's I hope Quirk's OK. I'd like to see more of him soon. I know. Although the Cliff's been pretty pretty decent. He's not been too bad. I don't know where this Will Cliff came from. Yeah, this is not the Will Cliff that I remember by any means whatsoever. So this is a doppelganger. It's just like the other guy, the doppelganger, like, I don't know. Your guess is mine, kids.
00:47:10
Speaker
oh hey look at that we got through it um but it's um yeah it's a it was a shithouse weekend big time but more more good to come than than bad you know that was right and slop it's not much it was it was mostly due to the weather and you know we'll get quinn's back so the rugby will be fun this weekend too like no matter what there'll be some fun um quinn's bristol
00:47:36
Speaker
oh yeah yes please i'll take two please two please yeah i don't know what you're having i'm taking two yeah right take a double of that over some of the others sometimes
00:47:48
Speaker
Oh, but we are. Hey, we look at that. We got through all the games and we got through the news cycle stuff, too. And we probably still miss stuff. But hey, what else is there? Yeah. Let us know if we miss something that you want us to. Yeah. If you want us to talk about something, please let us know. That's always we're always into into suggestions for sure. But until we catch you guys at the fancy corner, if you're not a fancy point listener, then we'll catch you guys next week. Until then, thanks a lot for hanging out with us and everybody have yourself a good one. Later.