Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
97. Who You Become After Divorce with Brad Lowry
111 Plays13 days ago
Divorce doesn't just end a relationship; it completely changes the way you see yourself, love, and the life you want to build.
But if we never stop to understand why our relationships ended or what role we played, it's easy to repeat the same patterns and find ourselves in familiar situations that don't serve us.
In this episode, I sit down with Brad Lowry to get a man's perspective about what really happens after divorce. From learning to set healthier boundaries and recognizing relationship patterns sooner to letting go of codependency, slowing down while dating, and building a life that doesn't depend on someone else to complete you, this conversation is about becoming someone who chooses differently the next time.
Healing isn't about finding the right person as quickly as possible. It's about becoming the person who knows who they are, what they need, and what they're no longer willing to settle for.
No matter where you are in your own starting-over journey, we hope this conversation reminds you that divorce isn't the end of your story. Sometimes it's the beginning of becoming the person you were always meant to be.
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to rate the podcast five stars 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟. It really helps others find the show.
Make sure to subscribe, follow, and share it with a friend who needs it!
Stay connected and check out all the ways you can follow along!
- Host Instagram: @heatherdyann
- Guest Instagram: @bradlowreh
- Host Facebook: heatherdyanmorgan
- TikTok: @wanderingthewildmess
- Website: www.wanderingthewildmess.com
- Subscribe to YouTube: www.youtube.com/@wanderingthewildmess
- Email the show: contact.heather.morgan@gmail.com
Join the email list and find free mindset tools here : https://stan.store/wanderingthewildmess
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
00:00:35
Speaker
You can move to a new city, you can start a new relationship, and you can completely rebuild your life. But if you don't pay attention, you'll end up learning the same lessons in a different place.
00:00:51
Speaker
Welcome to Wandering the Wild Mess with Heather Morgan. I am so happy that you're here. All right, y'all, let's get into it. i want to talk about something that we all know that life repeats itself when we don't learn the lessons. And it's wild to me how divorce and heart heartbreak often push you to wanting to just start your whole life over and you're kind of forced to But somehow the same patterns have a way of following us wherever we go.
00:01:24
Speaker
And today on the show, I'm so excited to welcome a guest who had a similar story in the fact that got divorced, the life started over, ah moved somewhere new and found similar patterns and then moved somewhere new again and kind of go through the process of what that looked like from a male's perspective. I know a lot of you loved episode 76 with Cade. And so I heard you. listened. And we're going to bring on another male perspective. I have Brad Lowry on the show. Welcome, Brad. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, Brad. So I appreciate you for coming on. And I want to We connected. You also have a podcast. And that's the coolest thing about Nashville. You probably learn because you've been out here now a little bit. we'll get There's a few podcasts around here. Yeah, just a few. And so Brad and I connected and really had like a similar story about the divorce. I didn't know that when we were talking about the podcast stuff and then kind of learned your story and was like, oh, man, it sounds like ah you went into a lot of the things that I learned a lot of people deal with when they're starting over. Yeah. So let's kind of talk through.
00:02:40
Speaker
Your divorce and how that felt. So tell me a little bit about how long you were married and then what it kind of felt like when it was nearing the end. Yeah, no, totally. So I'm i'm super stoked to be on here, right? We talked about this where it's important to have a guy's perspective. And there's ah there's a few things. It's not going to be a guy sitting here mansplaining how you navigate through this whole thing. There's no formula for it.
00:03:05
Speaker
There are so many people out there that sell self-help books and recovery processes and coaching services and all of this. And it's – there's no one right way to go through it, right?
00:03:18
Speaker
Did you try to take those paths? Is that why you feel that way? Like at the beginning, were you feeling like, oh my gosh, I need to like find the answer from someone else. Did you feel that pull at the beginning? There's always that pull when you're a little bit lost. Yeah. saying But at the same time, it's like, I quickly realized there's, there's a lot of wrong ways to to go through the recovery process, but there's no one right way.
00:03:38
Speaker
Right. It's kind of interesting that way. It's like, but the, the beauty of it is we're all going to do some of the wrong ways. Right. And that's where you gotta, you gotta have grace for yourself do the whole way through. and So it's not going to be one. This is what you have to do, guys. Okay. This is the right way. And if you just take these steps now, that's a load of crap.
00:03:55
Speaker
um Well, and I don't think you're in a place to listen very well. I think you're kind of like, i because I think even when you said there's no right way, I don't think there's like a wrong way either. i think it's just the way you get through it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and everybody's story is different, right? So I am somebody, I can't speak to people that have been through abuse. I can't speak to people that have been through cheating. None of those were issues with me and my ex-wife. um And so because of that, like you'll you'll never hear me bash my ex, you know, or or anything like that. I've got nothing but respect for And, uh, but what I can speak to is, is definitely taking ownership for yourself out of it.
00:04:34
Speaker
And, uh, and what you could do as far as figuring out who you are, um, rediscovering your purpose and, and growing from that, you know? So take me back there. Was it a mutual decision or did you, what, how did that kind of unfold? Was that like a big, how did that work for you? Well, it goes back to to that. Remember that illness that happened across the the globe in 2020?
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah. and so it was one I mean, they do talk about a lot of people got divorced during that time. Yeah, 100%. So you were a victim of a divorce. That was it. You know, 2020, it forced people to really like if you're if you're in a pace of life where you are constantly working, you know, you're in your routines, respectively, as a couple, then i you get caught up in the the flow of life and you end up not dealing with stuff. It's sweeping it under the rug or just not even realizing that the issues are there. right Maybe you you there were clues when you look back. But 2020 forced people to sit and reconcile with some things. I agree. It's like you slow down and then your routine, if you're busy doing your life and their life, and now you're like, oh, we're just together. Yeah. And we're just sitting here. And so all of the things that we weren't addressing are now at the forefront. And that's kind of what you guys were sitting with. Yeah, that's it. It's it was honestly a case of and this is again, this is something I can speak to where everybody's experience is different when it comes to this and everybody's story is a little bit different. i I totally get it when people say they grew apart. It's it's interesting, right? Do you think you grew apart, though?
00:06:11
Speaker
Oh, 100%. I think it's completely possible. I think people change. You're never married to the same person that you originally you know stood at the altar with. We're both growing and and you're both navigating life and becoming your own individuals along the way, right? so do you Do you feel like you were both growing in different directions or like someone was growing more than the other, like someone was more staying the same than the other one? like you know How did that feel? Because you know I've looked in my own experience and I do feel like – he had stayed more the same than me. Right. And so, you know, there could be some of that, but again, each, each case is different. I, um I remember when, when it went down, when everything kind of, you know, uh,
00:06:55
Speaker
The separation was i finally taken taken hold. I was moving out. And and what was that like? This was this was happening. it was ah It was finally an honest conversation. you know um i spoke up about some things. She spoke up about some things. And where we just both kind of realized that we weren't the same people that we thought we were originally. But were you i ever like, no, I just want to make this work? Oh, yeah. You're still in the back of your head. We're like, okay, I'm packing up. But like if there's a chance...
00:07:22
Speaker
I want to try to make it work. Well, you grew up religious as well, right? I grew up in a Christian household. That's what you do, right? I've got parents that that they've stuck it out for 43 years of marriage. I've seen the highs. I've seen the lows. And you know so you grow up with this concept of, well, you're just supposed to stick it out. Yes. But that doesn't always happen. It doesn't always work.
00:07:42
Speaker
and And that's okay. Right. You realize. So it was less about like, I'm so, and and I know you don't speak ill of her and i same. I don't with my ex, but there, it wasn't like, it I love her so much. i want to make this work. It was more like, I'm have a duty to make this work because I said I do. And I made that commitment. Well, love's deep, right? I mean, it's, it's not just what you're feeling all the time. Yeah. Also a choice. Yeah. And yeah and so the the choice there was like, I'm going to do everything that I can to make sure that this works before the towel is thrown in, you know? So, and we both did that. We we both, we did the the counseling, we did all of it and it just, it didn't work. But I remember talking to my best friend. He's he's no longer with us. But my best friend is ta Pablo. ah
00:08:29
Speaker
He'd been through a couple divorces on his own. And so I was i was broken up, dude. and i And I called him and kind of explained some of the background of what was going on. And I remember him. i was sitting in my truck talking with him about this. And he just went, man, you know, I think that that your your wife is about to learn more about herself. than she ever has at any point. And I think that's great. And I hope that one day you get to a place where you can look back and you can realize that's great too. And I, at that time I was like,
00:09:01
Speaker
You're being sympathetic. Because he's been too. So he's really had some rude awakening. This is the wisest take I've ever heard this. Yeah. On the other side, once you're out of it now, you can go, oh, yeah, that's exactly right. But I'm sure like if someone would have told me, you're going to really discover who because no one said that to me. And that is exactly true. That's very good for him. It's a good thing, right? Yeah. a good thing. So even though it didn't work out, there's good. There's always good to come from it. So long as, again, you learn from it and grow. And bad things are only bad so long as you don't use them for something good. So anyway. I like that. Bad things are only bad as long as you don't use them for something good.
00:09:41
Speaker
Um, yeah, I agree. So then, okay, so take me. So now, you know, it's, it's not going to work. You tried everything. and It just is what it is. And so you're living in Virginia at the time and you say, I'm going to move.
00:09:55
Speaker
Cause I, I really think it it is a feeling. i think a lot of people that have been on the podcast are or, that I talked to, like if you can move, cause you guys didn't have children. um Right. oh yeah. Then you're like, OK, I need to be somewhere else because you just feel like everything's a reminder of that life and whatever. So you go to Florida and then enters potentially similar patterns in your next relationship. Yep. Yep. It's a, and again, not to speak ill of, you know, past relationships either, but really it's a, gosh, there was a, there was a guy named Amos Shelton, who I knew 16 years ago, old guy at this church that i attended in Florida. and I remember him talking to me one day, he had this thick Kentucky accent and he goes, now Brett, like B R A T. Like, I don't even know where that came from, but now Brett, I'm going to tell you, it takes a whole lot of sweet things for you to find the right sweet thing. And I was like,
00:10:48
Speaker
I had no idea what that meant. But it's when you look at the experiences that you have in dating afterwards and you start to see patterns, the only place to look when you start to see patterns in the people that become your partners is a person in the mirror, right? Right.
00:11:05
Speaker
Agreed. Well, and so how was that, though? So he's saying you got to pretty much put yourself out there and start dating. Yeah. You know, um and because that was ah that was hard for me. So for you, were you just like, I'm ready to do this again right away? Or did you just feel like I want to I want to experience someone new because it's already been so much heartbreak? Like, how was it just easy for you to kind of jump back into dating or were you kind of just plain or?
00:11:29
Speaker
Having lots of sweets, as Kentucky man said. Yeah, no. So for me, again, growing up, very conservative Christian background. I didn't have a ton of dating experience. So I without you know sounding like a complete tool, i I did put myself back out there within the first six months. yeah you know And just because I was like, you know what? i want I want to know what I don't know and I want to learn what I don't.
00:11:54
Speaker
was Were you excited kind of or were you just like, I'm heartbroken and I'm just going to see if someone can mend my heart? Like, how did it? It was complex. i Truly, if I'm being honest, I was lost.
00:12:05
Speaker
Right. I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what I was about. um I knew what I thought I lacked as a guy. And dating is not the way to figure that out, first and foremost. um But it is a way. And again, that's what I'm saying. Like there could be right ways. was that a hard way? Like you felt like, OK, maybe I'm not. I need it. Like it showed you more of like you're in this world and you're like, what do women want? Was that kind of like a feeling? Some of it. Yeah. But it's also what do women want? What do I want? And who the hell am I?
00:12:37
Speaker
You know, so you didn't even have that foundation. You're just kind of like. Yeah. You're trying to figure you're you're trying to figure out so many things at once. And, i you know, it's ah again, i've I've, you know, gone out with people that have gone through or are going through separations and divorces as well. And and I could sympathize, but I also understand the risk having having been that person. 100 people talk about it because we're on threads and sometimes ah and I'm like, I, you know, I haven't really been dating a lot. But if someone was going through like a separation or it was just early in and the divorce phase, like I'm not saying they can't get out there and date. But if you're someone that's looking for an intentional partner, I just think they're knowing now on the other side, like you have to really those emotions are just so you've got to be a little bit out of it. Yeah. Or you can really. I think, but although I have a couple of friends back home that already are remarried, you know, that got into relationships quick and I'm not saying those can't work, but for me, I'm still mind blown at the amount of emotional like baggage you're navigating.
00:13:40
Speaker
and that It's not even the marriage. It's just everything about yourself to your point about who am I? Yeah. Suddenly that's like a question that you're like old enough but now to address and you have plenty of time to think about it. Yeah. Well, again, every circumstance is different, right? And I've got a a really good friend back in Virginia. He went through a divorce about the same time. He had kids involved. He met a beautiful woman with kids of her own, and they've got a wonderful blended household. that's where He got married like a year or two after he got divorced. Right. And I'm sitting over here going, well, good for you, bud. But I knew I wasn't ready.
00:14:15
Speaker
But his identity is in being a father, right? And what his now wife was looking for was probably somebody that was ready to be a father and knew that that was their purpose. You know what? That's a really good point, Brad, that I've never thought about before, because well a lot of when you get divorced, it's like an identity death. That's what the episodes of Cade we talked about. And but if you're a parent, that identity doesn't die with you. Right.
00:14:41
Speaker
you right to You have to still be a parent. And so that what what it does is it adds a little bit of foundation. We're just wobbling because we have nothing now. Right. Maybe a career. But even that is hard to just want to put yourself into. i mean, a lot of people throw this out. But if you're a parent, you kind of have to stay stable. hmm.
00:15:01
Speaker
So I think it is a little bit like grounds you into being able to move into another relationship. Exactly. And so he did that and I bought an Airstream and I drove from Virginia to Vegas and from Vegas to Florida and, you know, crisscrossed through Texas and I had a good old time.
00:15:18
Speaker
you know See, that's kind of wild mess. I feel like, you know, when you're single, you're just like, all right, what are going to do? I'm like, I'm moving to Tennessee. you don't even know how you know, Don't read Matthew McConaughey's book, Green Lights, if you're not ready to go on a trip. You know, is it is it? I haven't read We need to. Is it a good one? All right. I do. i think he has some wise words. OK.
00:15:38
Speaker
OK, so then you're doing the airstream that you're literally like and everyone's probably like Brad's losing his mind. Right. Like because you're just and would be the first time. yeah Yeah, so you're doing all that, so you're meeting girls along the way, but somehow you land in Florida and meet a girl that you start dating more seriously, I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah, like a year and a half. Okay. All right, so you're you got divorced, now you're dating this girl, and then you feel like there's some similarities. There were, yeah, there definitely were. And again, great lady, truly. It just, I could look and go, you know, there were things that...
00:16:14
Speaker
i didn't work with the marriage and, and I wasn't going to repeat them, you know what I'm saying? And so it was like, for me, this just isn't going to, this isn't going pan out right now. How did you finally realize that? Because I talked about a little bit, like I only had that one boyfriend and, and thankfully, cause I'm, you know, it was only three months, but I saw early on there was similar patterns, but I kind of just let them be cause I was just having fun. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but it was fun cause there is fun, right? There's always some good to it. Yeah. You're like, this is what I'm used to. Like, this feels a little normal. Like, you know, you don't necessarily want it, but it's familiar. So you're like, okay, I'll just roll with it. You know, it's kind of easy to do that. But at some point you're like, like you just said, I already saw this story. It doesn't unfold well. Yeah. You know, I already know where this chapter goes. Yeah. Yeah. We've already seen it. And so what made you finally go like, oh, I like, yeah, this will just be a repeat. Yeah.
00:17:10
Speaker
I don't want to get into specifics because, again, it's, i you know, I don't want to share people's business. Yeah, yeah. But for me, it's... This is part of the you know post-divorce process is a better understanding yourself and what you need and what you won't put up with.
00:17:24
Speaker
um And things that don't work out for you when you learn to have the self-respect ah to speak up sooner, you know what I'm saying? It it just be like, hey, look, i this took seven years for me to speak up about. This is going to be seven months. Yeah.
00:17:41
Speaker
That's where and then, you know, maybe the next time around you start to see something similar again and it's seven weeks and maybe it's seven minutes after that, you know, where you just get to a point of like, it's okay for me to go. This is a deal breaker. This is not this.
00:17:54
Speaker
This works for me. I could put up with this. There's some demons you live with and some you don't. you know No, I think that's a really good point. It's like just learning to set your boundaries. and i didn't know Exactly. yeah i think that's good for men too. Like I think a women out are doing you know are looking back and saying like setting these boundaries and I think a lot of us talk about it. But I don't i think to your point there's a part where men sometimes tolerate things that – We put up with lot. Yeah, that that that maybe they shouldn't. yeah Right. um Because that's familiar, especially if they had a relationship where, you know, um a woman just ah did a certain acted a certain way and they kind of just tolerated it over time. um Because I have seen I've talked to spoke to men that ah it's really just like it is to women. um It's all humans. It beats down your confidence. Yeah. When you accept poor treatment by anybody, you know, any type of relationship, when someone is treating you poorly and you don't feel all right with like setting that boundary and saying like, look, this isn't okay. I always like to think of it like that's the little you inside is is wanting you to parent and set that and protect them. Yeah, yeah. You know what i mean? And say, hey, you know what? Like little Brad, know what I mean? No, I know men know. But like little Brad doesn't want to be treated like this. Like, you know what I mean? It's more that Brad in general just needed to be big Brad. And yeah, you know, and speak up. But yeah, but I think that's hard sometimes when you because I think in my marriage, like there was times, you know, he wasn't a bad guy, but there's times it's just like I just didn't want to rock the boat.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah. You know, you just want to like, especially when you're like a go with the flow, like positive, happy person. You're just like, oh, if I bring this up, it's going to be a whole conversation. Especially when there's been good, right? When there, when it hasn't been, and this is where it does get a little more difficult, at least in my experience, where again, there if there's, if there's cheating or abuse or something involved, it's real, it's much easier, I think, to make a clear distinction and be like, hell no, I'm out.
00:19:49
Speaker
yeah As opposed to when there has been a lot of good. Right. And there yeah there's circumstances that are causing those issues that, you know, it's there was still love there, even though fundamentally, you know, foundationally as individuals, you're not the same people and you don't connect the way that you used to. So that makes a little murkier. That makes it a little tougher to know, OK, when do we make this call? wouldn you Yeah. And I think that's a big one for a lot of people because you're right. i think if you say, oh well, they cheated or oh, it was you know some kind of abuse, people are like, oh, I get it. But when you get divorced and it's just like not this like concrete
00:20:29
Speaker
You know, especially growing up, like you said, um like any kind of religious structure, you know, like because I was on like a faith based podcast and they straight up asked me like, well, the Bible is and coming to me. And I'm like, but not like coming at me. But I was like, I don't think I could have been the person that I am meant to be. yeah in that marriage.
00:20:50
Speaker
And I think that just becomes so sometimes your truth yeah and it's not this dramatic answer, right? But it was the right choice for you, you know? Exactly. i Shoot. I, I dug through the Bible because again, you know, the church tends to treat divorce as such a major taboo when it's like, well, again, for those of us that have been through it, you realize there's a lot more gray than there is black and white. And, you know, when you when you try and dig through the Bible and you're like, oh, but there's only two reasons why you should. And for some people, they don't even think there's any reason why you should divorce. it's Well, there's two ends of the spectrum, too, There's lot of guilt against Paul.
00:21:32
Speaker
well what i was to say is there's two—you're right. Like, either there's a lot of, like—it is a lot of gray because there's people that are like— Oh, everyone's just getting divorced these days, right? Because a lot more people are getting divorced than ever before. yeah And obviously there's a lot of factors because our society have changed. Women are making money. Like it's just there's a lot of different things. And that's a factor, right? Because survival was why a lot of women did stay in marriages before. Like they had those duties. That's how society ran, all the things. So it's not like...
00:22:00
Speaker
And it's not like i worse i would ever, and I'm sure you, I would never say, yeah, get divorced because that's not an easy, that's not the easy choice either. Right, yeah. Like it's not the easy way out. I'm sure you've probably thought about this. You could have made it work.
00:22:13
Speaker
Like if you really wanted to force and pretend and you both could have been miserable for 20 more years. Well, the beauty of hindsight is you look at it and you realize how much you couldn't have. You know what I'm saying? and And that only comes with time. And you don't see that immediately.
00:22:28
Speaker
You don't... there's There's the grief process that has to happen. But it's... when you When you look back unbiasedly and fairly um with grace for both of you, yeah you realize it's like, nah, I don't know that we could have, you know, not in every circumstance. You're right. Maybe not like, I think we could have made it work longer. Sure, sure. you're Not forever. To what extent? And that was one of those things where you're like, when I remember thinking like, oh, I just want my old life back. But it's like at what cost too, because it's not really the life yeah you want.
00:23:04
Speaker
Okay, so then take me so then you get Florida's over. You realize that we got ah some patterns, some repeats. Maybe we need to look at ourself and see why we're attracting the same kind of situations with how the women are um engaging with me. And then is that when you're like, okay, Nashville is going to be my self-help place or well how did that happen? No, no, no. So, you know, as if we take the Airstream out of the picture, I'm definitely somebody that as much as I love to go and travel and see the world, um you do have to be grounded. You have to have some roots. Florida will always be home in some way. I freaking love it down there. But Nashville had been at the back of my mind for a long time.
00:23:48
Speaker
And if it hadn't been for, you know, a romantic interest in Florida, I would have come to Nashville back then. I work with a a nonprofit here and in West Nashville. And y'all go check out the Olive family.
00:24:02
Speaker
Awesome. Come get involved. um But i it's it was kind of a segue where I'm like, you know, if I want to come if I want to try Nashville and see what happens now is ah as good a time as any.
00:24:14
Speaker
So might as well come on up. But there was definitely still, you know, Florida can be crazy. It could be nuts. And i intentionally chose an area outside of Nashville where I knew it was going to be quieter, where I could put some time and reflection into, into myself and into just being still for a season.
00:24:32
Speaker
Okay. So you're still for a season, but now everyone talks about dating in Nashville. So you, have you been doing that? Yeah, I have. And then what, what's the, um I just had Taylor on and then goes episode 91 and we talked about dating in Nashville and she came and she was like, what is happening? Like, That's anyway. Yeah. I don't know. Cause this is the only other place I've ever lived. And I didn't really date in Utah because I, I was with my ex for like pretty much felt like my whole life. Yeah. Um, but like, so I don't even know, i haven't done it in Nashville, but you have, I mean, I've dated, but not like I'm guessing and like the apps, like how does that feel? Now you're like, I was married once I had like all this. Now I come to Nashville and how has it been?
00:25:12
Speaker
I mean, there's some beautiful, wonderful people here. Yeah. Truly. Yeah. um It's in, it same here as anywhere. I wouldn't say this is as as bad or as good as city as, as any place else in the world today. You've got a lot of people that are figuring out who they are and what they want. um So I think it's a, it's, it's really important, especially as a guy that's supposed to be taking the lead in what you want in life. That's why it's really important that you understand who you are what you want, what your purpose is and what you're after. Um, but, uh, be clear, be clear with your intentions, you know, but, uh, cause there's a lot of people out there that don't know what they want or don't know what they need. And, um, so you, there's, there's some sifting through that naturally takes place, but it's,
00:25:56
Speaker
I feel like Nashville is a wonderful place to just simply get to know people, even just as friends. Yeah. um on ah Of both genders, you know, where you can, i you can network here like crazy. You can, you can make real meaningful friendships here. And I've found that to be more true here than in any place that I've lived before.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, I do. I feel like it was. I know a lot of my friends are like i can't believe back home or like, oh, you've made a lot of friends. and And like definitely it is a space to just like so many fun, creative, kind people um that are just, you know, have collaborative minds and just want to interact like that. So I think that's probably why like dating wasn't priority. I was just like, oh, I'm doing a podcast. I'm doing not like distracting with those things. But OK, I want to ask you, though, on you said something about dating, like you really need to know who you are and all of those things. So After you get divorced, you definitely don't. What do you think helped you figure out who you are and what you really want? And like, are you really there yet? Do you feel like you've grounded in that? Or do you think there's still, obviously there's always more room for progress, but. Yeah, sure. No, I mean, we're, we're all still on a journey here, figuring things out, but man, I mean, five years down the road, um, there's so much more peace about everything that happened and why it happened. Because i mean, for me, there was a lot of questions of why, you know, why did things go the way they went? Because I think it's, it's really important. I'm naturally wired this way, but I think it's good for guys to be this way in general is to take a extreme ownership of yourself and the situation. Even if there was, you know, there was no infidelity or anything in the relationship that caused the schism, you can still look back and go, okay, where there were two, two souls involved here. What was my role? What, uh, what did I do that contributed to drifting apart? Um, You know, where where could I have been a better husband or better partner, um you know, and working through those things, kind of sitting with yourself and some of that. And again, credit to my whole friend Pablo. He was like, you know, until you get into a relationship again, you won't learn some of those things. Uh, you won't, uh, and, and you'll realize once you, once, once it kind of comes to the forefront again, you'll go, Oh, I still got to work on that. You know? Oh, wait, this is still a thing, you know? Um, and so, uh, you know, there's, you know, been, been five years now of, of, of that too, which has been great. Yeah. So, um, And that is a big one. Like i talked about that before, just that you have to kind of be, you can heal so much on your own, yeah but until you're in a relationship again, it's that's when those things come up and you're like, oh, I still have these insecurities or, oh, you know, this still bothers me or, oh, like this might not be the right um partner. i do feel like now, because I know Taylor talked about this in the episode, we talked about dating because she just met a great guy and she said something like, you got to get better at kind of cutting things off sooner.
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah. You know what i mean? So I know that you said that other relationship it was kind of like, OK, seven months in and you're realizing there's the same things. Do you feel like now you're just more like it's not that you're like, oh, I don't like you. You're just like, oh, that pattern. I see it and it's not going to work for me. i already know. So I'm are you getting better at just sifting through when you're dating? Like, how does that or do you feel like terrible? I know. that that was i felt like yeah I feel like people have to take away the, yeah that that's been hard for me too. It's because it's like, people are always like, oh, give people a chance. But you're, sometimes you kind of know yeah something's not aligned. It's not like that they're not attractive or smart or talented or whatever. Let's flip this around. Okay. Let's, let's look at it as what does it say about me that, um,
00:29:45
Speaker
you know, individuals who are wired this way or um have come from these backgrounds i find their way into their life, into my life. I like that because it is. Yeah. same on me as a person Why am I attracting these people yeah these people into my life? And again, this is nothing bad about these individuals. It's it's when you start to see similar patterns, right? the The person that you need to be looking at is yourself. Right.
00:30:12
Speaker
ah Like for me, i have always been a very empathetic individual. I used to be a youth leader working with teens. And so, you know, people's problems, I was always too good about making them up.
00:30:25
Speaker
Right. Come in here with this superhero cape on, you know, come on here I am, the great white Jesus, you know, coming in to save the day. and And it's it comes from a place of wanting to help people and wanting them to, you know, be them, but their best selves and see their identity as it made in the image of God and see their worth and all of this. But it also comes with a side of weight. Maybe I'm actually just a really bad codependent.
00:30:49
Speaker
And, you know, I, I find my worth and value and identity in helping other people. And that's not something that I need to do. You know, it's, uh, it's, so it's, that was, that was my kind of a realization. Yes. And that, Yeah. And that even probably the marriage, they probably played that role in some ways, it' um you know, um because I feel like that that is true. Like you have to look at why am I trying to fix that?
00:31:17
Speaker
yeah yeah um Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's really that's again, that means that I'm the problem, too, because that means that I'm coming into something going this person needs to change this and I can help them. No, you can't. You arrogant s SOB. Yeah. You know. Well, and you're enabling like and in some ways I feel like it's kind of like you end up enabling when you try to fix to you. yeah you ah You allow behaviors and be like, all right, we'll work around this. Like because you're empathetic to, you know, um who they are.
00:31:44
Speaker
And I think you're right. It's that thin. line between like of course ah you can be empathetic to people and you can do those things but you you're right you can't fix anybody girls do this too i mean fit fill in the blank right it's like oh but he has so much potential yeah i think oh even i went on one day in the last year and half and i knew it wasn't but i was like in the back of my head for a moment you know you're like well it's a he'd be a lot of work not nothing wrong with this man but like i'm like You know, it could be a lot of work. But like I'm like, I'm not that person anymore. You know, God's not bringing me a guy that's a whole big project at this point. Like I've already been Barbara, the builder, like in my last life. And and that's no disrespect. I'm not saying, you know, but it's just I don't think that's the season of life that my next chapter is going to be, you know, not. But that's where, again, you know, defining what is, what what do I want the next chapter of my life to be like? if If it's not these things, then what do I want it to be? And that comes a lot of prayer, a lot of self-study, a lot of being intentional and and honest with yourself about your past and who you were then and who you want to be and what you need to change if you want to get there, you know?
00:32:56
Speaker
So it's, that that only comes through, you know, playing out the process, so. Yeah, kind of like playing in the sandbox and seeing what feels right and what works for you and what doesn't work for you.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a big yeah takeaway for life. So do you feel like I'm not doing this marriage thing again? Because I feel like a lot of people have other ways to think of it.
00:33:21
Speaker
I mean, no, it's what it was instead is like, hey, it you know, when ah when the right one comes along and and I know what that needs to be now, um then we'll cross that bridge, you know. But it's also you youll learn not to kick that door down either.
00:33:38
Speaker
ah Because, again, if your identity is in somebody else being there, that's a terrible place to be too. If your identity is in I need to be in a relationship or I need to be this – That's different than what we were talking about with somebody going, I am a parent, right? I am yeah a provider. You know, it's yeah it's your worth can't be in somebody else. Your value can't be in somebody else. So so there's something to be said for it's like, you know, is it – should you be afraid of being in a relationship again or marrying again? Absolutely not. Um, but should you also, uh, be mindful and cognizant about where you are and where you need to be? So you're not just out there burning through hearts, you know, hurting people along the way.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah, and I think you're right. oh Now I'm like at a place where I've definitely opened my heart that that would be something I would want to do. But I realize it's still a risk, right? It's always at risk. Yeah, but I think you're right with what you said about when you don't put your whole identity in your partner, which I think is the biggest thing.
00:34:40
Speaker
It doesn't mean you can't like love them to death and want to spend a lot of time with them and do things, yeah but it's like... It can't be who you are, everything about you and your worth because it's it's not within you. Yeah. You know, and it's within someone else and it could go. And I think it would still hurt even if you are within just yourself, but it will be a different kind of pain. Yeah, yeah. You know?
00:35:05
Speaker
um you know We romanticize that that idea of of kind of being so wrapped up in somebody else. Was it Jerry Maguire? Do you remember that movie? Okay, yeah. We're old enough.
00:35:18
Speaker
um But yeah, that line where he's like, you complete me. And I'm like, yeah, that's that's so terrible. Like it sounds great on TV. It sounds great in a movie. But dang, that is a really unhealthy spot to me, you know.
00:35:32
Speaker
So it's like, where where are you here with yourself? Where are you with God? And then where are you with that person? You'd be a whole lot better if you get those two things straightened out first. Yeah, I like it the idea of you like compliment. like It's kind of like a partnership and and they compliment the life that you've already built instead of you know completing something because that gives the idea that something's missing. And so you're right. and In theater, that's like dramatizing love is like this – You know, which it is. and And there's a lot of like really beautiful things about it. But most of the time, those kinds of stories, like you even think about Juliet and Romeo, it's like dying. great You know, it's just so overly passionate, which is great. But like if we're really talking about sustainable love with two healthy people, healthy minded people in a relationship, it's more about like really pouring love into yourself and then having someone come into your life and like help, not help, um complete you know in the life that you've already been building. Well, because again, it's once you get to that point with the right person, I would like to think that most people have enough goodness in them that they're willing to make that commitment for
00:36:42
Speaker
Till death do you part. You know what i'm saying? Where it's like you'll give that sacrificial love, but you can only give that sacrificial love when you get back to that place of, I don't necessarily need the other individual's love in order to be able to give it. It's two people giving 100%, not 50%. You know what? That just reminded me, and I totally agree. I never thought of this before, so let me get your thoughts on it. But I almost think when you are so dependent on the other person, um that adds a lot of pressure to that person. It does. Well, we have a contractual view of love. Unfortunately, this is this is so the case in our society where I won't give unless I get.
00:37:20
Speaker
You know what i'm saying? And if I don't get enough, therefore, and there's something to be said for this, right? If you deprive somebody of love in the way that they need to receive it, if you withhold from them, if you are just a complete jerk of a spouse, ah yeah, they're going to leave, right? They're going to reach a point where they're just so broken. They're just so done that they take off, right? Their cup's not being filled, but you don't fill somebody else's cup because, well, then they'll fill mine too.
00:37:49
Speaker
Right. yeah that's That's not it. um That's that's expecting something in return. If you're giving something with an expectation of of getting, then you were never giving for the right reasons.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely not the same type of giving. No, not at all. It's giving with your own agenda, right? It's like giving from a place of expecting to receive, yeah which then you're not really get yeah giving. I 100% agree. And if again, it's it's it's a control thing. That's a control thing too, where it's like if I do this – then this person will be motivated to feel this kind of way and to do something that I want in return. And I'm like, that's that's a recipe for disaster as well. I actually learned that more after. like i learned a lot of people had dynamics in the relationship where you know one or other partners would withhold things. and i didn't I didn't know that was like a thing. i Thankfully, I didn't experience that in my marriage, but I thought,
00:38:47
Speaker
Wow, that's a whole other level of like kind of like quiet warfare. Yeah. You know, in the background. like You can be as manipulative with giving as you do with withholding. Yeah. you know You know, and I think I sometimes did that a little. I remember like I would do so much for his birthday and then when my birthday came around, I'd be like,
00:39:05
Speaker
Okay. This wasn't reciprocated. i didn't i didn't think in the moment I thought like that, but maybe that was the reason I thought like that because i think i think sometimes that giving and receiving, sometimes it's not just i gave, give me back. I think people want to be met.
00:39:19
Speaker
Correct. and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. So when you are like pouring so much into someone, I think sometimes it's not like give back to me. It's like this love doesn't feel equal. um And so and that probably just needed to be a conversation instead of like building the story up in your head and making it like what it actually means. Cause the person might not even be thinking of it like you do. Right. And that's why like the love language thing, me and my, idea that's going to be, that's her episode will drop. but She talks about that because everyone receives differently. Mm-hmm.
00:39:49
Speaker
And so, you know, but, um, yeah, I definitely think that we have to self reflecting is the biggest thing. And now I would just, I want to ask you like in, let's say you met someone tomorrow and it was like the, what do you think you would do so much differently in that relationship?
00:40:07
Speaker
Knowing what you know now. Take your time. Take your time to really get to know the individual. Uh, this is, uh,
00:40:17
Speaker
feel like especially once you get into your 30s, we all tend to operate with a clock. It's not just ladies that have the biological clock, right? I mean, for me, I'm like, I'm knocking on 40 over here. And i look at that and go, okay, so if the kid thing ever happens, that means that I'm going to be putting a kid through college right about the time that I'm ready to retire.
00:40:37
Speaker
dang, I better get on it. Right. And so there's this, you've had an episode about this, the urgency that you kind of put on yourself. ah And that's, that's a terrible way to operate too. You've every, every person's journey is completely different. And so you don't need to be rushing something, especially when it comes to if your intention is to settle down, like if you're approaching a relationship for the correct reasons, then you want to take the time to know know, The compatibility is there on multiple levels. Attraction is the easy one. you know Physical chemistry is the easy one. ah
00:41:10
Speaker
Where are you on shared beliefs? Where are you on your personal values and your morals? What foundations do you individually have? What what baggage are you both bringing? How much have you each worked through and not worked through? It's lot. Yeah. Well, okay. So that made me think of a question because I was thinking, okay, from a guy's perspective, like how quickly do you said, take it slow, but how quickly do you want to find out like a lot of those things before? Cause like, you're right. I mean, clearly you're like, okay, I'm attracted, but how quickly are you being like, okay, what are your values? What are your, like, how do you navigate that?
00:41:46
Speaker
So this is where, and again, we talked about this on the phone for the guys that are listening. You know, there is, there's such a slew of um a alpha male coaches and y'all need to just stay away from them.
00:42:01
Speaker
Okay. Those guys will teach you how to, you know, end up in a bedroom within a short period of time. That shouldn't be your goal, man. My aunt was the one that was like, you need to have a 30-day, three-month, six-month role.
00:42:18
Speaker
I was like, oh, okay, this is completely dead Your aunt's like coming in hot with the... Dude, well, aunt's been through it. Yeah. She's been married and divorced as well. Yeah. she it Once you've been through that, you yeah you're a different person. It's, you know, 30 days, you... like people tend to show more of themselves after the first month. Maybe you've been out on three dates at that point. Yeah. um You're talking a little bit more. You're not getting overly invested. But – The shoe always drops in my experience between three to six months.
00:42:49
Speaker
And that's where the masks come down and the real individual show themselves both for yourself and the other individual. and That's where you start to go. Oh, I'm not as far along as I thought on this. You know, I still need to work on this. ah And I know guys get a lot of a, you know, they get the a really bad rep for, um you know, girls feel like they were strung along and suddenly the guy's like, I'm just not ready. It's not that. It's a matter of a what issues from the past relationship that caused things to fail did you not work on, right? So they're surfacing in that relationship and the guy's probably like, I don't know, this seems familiar or I'm not ready to face the things I need to work through. It's to keep this yeah relationship. It could be either or. What trauma issues do both of you have that are unresolved? Because again, relationships are always a mirror. They're always a reflection of both, not just where you're coming from, but who you are right now. yeah and And so that's where we, you know, we stopped putting, putting our best on all the time, you know, after about three to six months, there's a comfort and a trust and a vulnerability that starts to open up for good and for bad. where the, your authentic selves start to show up. And that's where you really, that becomes decision time, you know, where it's like, okay, is this going to progress? Is this not? And for some people in my aunt helped me to see this for some people, they want to know,
00:44:10
Speaker
By, you know, week three, you know, so what are we? And for people that have been through this and have, have you know, experienced, you know, kind of the the good and the bad and the up and the down of divorce and all of this, we we understand that it's like, let's slow down, first of all, because there's more here and there's there's there's more serious consequence to getting this wrong than there is getting it wrong.
00:44:33
Speaker
Um, especially it's the older you get, you don't want to waste another 10 years. Right. And so if somebody else is trying to pressure you to make a decision sooner than you're ready to make, or if you're not at the comfort level where it's like, okay, I feel safe and ready to go all in with this individual. You don't owe them.
00:44:52
Speaker
You don't owe anybody a, um, a an answer by a certain time. You know, you want to be respectful. If, if another person is, you know, if, if they need a decision sooner or they want to move on to the next, they're welcome to, that's cool.
00:45:08
Speaker
But you are responsible for you. They are responsible for them. And so the, the biggest takeaway that I have going forward is to take, really take the time, uh, to get to know the other person, And to make sure that the foundation is in place before, you know, you really take it forward. Yeah, I would agree with that too. Because even when I, before I was married, I mean, i remember having friends that were like kind of trying to pressure the man to like propose or like make it more serious. And I always thought, I feel like if you have to push them, then that's not their own decision. And in my experience talking to men, since they're always like, they do not, whether or not they,
00:45:47
Speaker
Did or didn't. I've had so many men say, well, I felt obligated to marry her or to move in or to whatever. And whether even though they are a grown man and they made that decision, they're holding on to that yeah thought because it it was they weren't ready to make that choice, even though they made it you Right. Because they had that pressure, to your point. And so for both people involved,
00:46:10
Speaker
For the woman that moved in with a guy and now she wasted seven years of her life for a guy that never wanted to move in with her at the first place. And the other, you know what i mean? She's doing that because she feels the pressure. But if you have to force it, I'm a believer. It's not for you. Well, that's it. And and this is where, again, having having the confidence to speak up for yourself and know, know who you are, know what you need, to know what you want. It's going to shorten that timetable. You won't make those mistakes or for for such a long period of time, right? um You'll know sooner when it's when it's not a fit and you'll have the cojones to call that off sooner. um you know Because there is the...
00:46:48
Speaker
Guys should understand that, you know, you should be respectful enough to a woman to, you know, make a decision or in the old part of the crudeness, you know, crap or get off the pot, um you know, make just make up your mind. And there's a lot of indecisive dudes, but it's they're indecisive because they don't know who they are or what they want or what they're about. And so they they'll go along with those things longer. um But again, this isn't this is coming from a woman telling me to slow down, telling me to take my time, she's telling me you don't owe somebody you know a certain time period.
00:47:21
Speaker
So it's a it goes for both, truly. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. and So for you, it's just like slowing it down and giving yourself an opportunity to really know the person and seeing – where those signs go and I feel like you probably couldn't have done this in the other way without the divorce like it kind of forced you oh yeah to go down this this journey so would you looking back like what would you have told yourself like packing your bags 2020 brad or whatever like about your life now like are you what would you have told him
00:48:00
Speaker
I buckle up. I mean, honestly, there's going to be a wild mess. well It is. Yeah. It's you, you look back and you go, Oh man, what, what would I have done different? Well, you wouldn't know what to do different if you didn't do it wrong.
00:48:14
Speaker
You wouldn't know what to do different now. If you hadn't gone through all of those things, there's, there's plenty of instances where I look back and I go, Oh, you know, I read about this. Somebody told me this, I heard this somewhere and that was right.
00:48:27
Speaker
And yeah, Again, some of us, we just got, we're knuckleheads. We got to learn the hard way. um But experience is life's greatest teacher. And I will take the advice of a man with experience over somebody with an opinion.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah, I like there's a line that says the only way to get over it is to go through it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And I feel like that is what it feels like after divorce because there isn't going to be. I mean, no one prepares you yeah like there is like like you said, there isn't a but I mean, i read The Power of Now, which really saved my soul, honestly.
00:48:59
Speaker
hiking. I think I've talked about it before. It's in my, uh, on my website, if you haven't read it, it's so good, but it just keeps you grounded in the moment because I think what happens during divorce is you're so, you're going back to all the things you should have done different. And you're worrying about all the things that are kind of come in front of you because your life, you don't know what it's going to look like anymore. Yeah. And you want you want, at least for me, I'm like, I wanted a formula of, okay, if I got it wrong, what do I need to do right going forward? It's not even that, you know, No one can get and no one can give that to you. And you're right. Like, even in my messiest season, in the beginning, i'm like, I can't believe I think about some of those. And I'm just like, but I really feel like they were all purposeful looking back. And I feel like, you know, that moment of you in the airstream having fun, like, it's just experiences that your soul needed to have, especially if you're going to settle down again. It's like. But I will say this. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and adventures. No. um if If I was to do anything differently, if I was to look back, what what I would tell myself is to be mindful that hurt people do hurt people. And even if you have the best intentions, you are capable of inflicting harm. ah
00:50:06
Speaker
And i so that's that's my biggest regret. Meaning like you drug someone along with your sorrow like you weren't ready to commit? Yeah, or even strained friendships you know and and burned bridges just because I was in – especially fresh out of it. i was in a terrible place. No, I've heard that from a lot of friends where – and if you're listening and your friend going through a divorce or you're the person going through divorce, a lot of people have told me how they're they don't even know their friend. Yeah.
00:50:34
Speaker
You're not acting like you. You're not acting like yourself. And it's not that you want to – like you don't even know who you are. You're not prioritizing – I don't want to say the right things or the wrong. You just don't know what to prioritize anymore because your whole life feels different and certain things are triggering you in ways that you didn't know would. And you just, it is a wild mess with that. You know, you do.
00:50:56
Speaker
i had to apologize like to a friend, you know, and she's and one of my best friends. She loves me now. She's like, I'm sorry. I didn't understand you better once I talked about it. But it is one of those things where you don't make great decisions for others. And it's,
00:51:11
Speaker
You can be a burden, man. At least i know i know I was. So it's like you you want to lean on your friends and family, but it's it's critical to find the right outlets too. When people say go to therapy, they just do it. you know it's you You don't want to be a burden on the good people in your life. you know That doesn't mean that you stuff it down and never deal with it. You just have to find a healthy outlets. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad that you I'm thankful that you shared your journey, Brad, and talked about all of these things. I feel like it's going to be super helpful. And I feel like if you're going through divorce, this is the that's why I started the podcast is for that I'm not telling you who to be or the perfect, you know, now you got divorced. Now you're starting over. You know, this is how you're going to fix your life. yeah But I think through the podcast, I really wanted exactly that. I know how absolutely lost you are when you're going through it. You're making decisions you don't even know. And it's an opportunity to reflect on yourself, give yourself some grace and then realize like there's still so much more life to be lived. yeah Like this isn't the end of your journey. It's just one chapter and things will fall into place exactly how they're meant to. um The whole theme, trust your path, no matter how messy it looks. Yeah. You know, that felt so, so close to my soul. And I think,
00:52:26
Speaker
yeah I'm glad you brought up that it it isn't all sunshines and rainbows because it's probably the opposite. and then there is some sunshine in there. yeah There's there. there ends up being more sunshine than you thought, right? And so that's where you get to where you can get to the point where you do just enjoy the journey, enjoy the people you meet along the way. You know, it's it's it's fun, man. It can be good. It can be good. All right. Well, thank you again, Brad, for coming on the podcast.
00:52:53
Speaker
If anyone that you know needs to hear this episode, make sure you send it to them. Make sure to give the podcast a review or five stars. That helps the podcast find more people. If you know anyone going through it, this is for them. Just know that you will make it through. There's not a perfect recipe, but you're still going to have the best sourdough ever.
00:53:12
Speaker
Sourdough is good. We have a good sign. Subscribe to her show. She's killing it out here. and Thanks, Brad. All right. Well, this was Wandering the Wild Mess with Heather Morgan. You matter.