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The Analog Renaissance with Kalyl Kadri
10 Plays4 days ago
This week, Gail welcomes Kalyl Kadri of Words Hurt copy for a theatrical, silly, and deep conversation about how the rise of AI slop is driving people toward analog hobbies, in-person connection, and human-made work.
A former theatre-maker turned creative director, Kalyl writes brands with bite, identities that feel alive under the skin, messaging with vertebrae, and stories that refuse to sit quietly in the corner.
He has a decade and a half of experience directing performers onstage and nearly as long directing founders and creators on the page. He runs Words Hurt, where provoked businesses to put more FUN in their fundamentals, and get booked out while causing a scene.
You can find some of Kal on Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, and at their website, www.words-hurt.com.
Our music is by Emily Bjorke, whose new single, Skeletons in Toronto, is available anywhere you listen to music.
You can find Where's Your Humanity on Instagram, or listen on Youtube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
To learn more about Gail and her work, you can go to her website, worksimple.io, or connect with her on Instagram, Threads, and Tiktok.
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Transcript
Introduction of Gail and Cal
00:00:06
Speaker
There is more than enough room. Hold on, Kim. We are and we believe it.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Where's Your Humanity. I'm your host, Gail Fraser, and I am so, so excited to be joined by our ah guest today, Cal from Words Per Copy.
00:00:33
Speaker
You are a former theater maker turned creative director, write brands that bite, identities that feel alive under the skin, messaging with vertebrae and stories that refuse to sit quietly in the corner.
00:00:46
Speaker
I found you by your just ramblings, general unhinged fun energy on the internet and knew I had to speak to you. So thank you for being
Cal's Interests and Background
00:00:57
Speaker
here.
00:00:57
Speaker
Thank you so much for inviting me on this pod. I'm so excited. Are we on video as well, by the way? I always forget to ask. Oh, amazing. yeah like, um it's because I always have my little baby hands. Not always, like I'm in a baby hand era right now. So I just want to make sure that I can use them.
00:01:17
Speaker
Certainly. Correctly. Amazing. yeah but Well, Cal, I like to start with, give us a little more. Who's Cal? I like D&D, Arbidree Hepburn, Fangoria, Harry Houdini, and Croquet.
00:01:31
Speaker
um That's a my chemical romance reference for all the emo listeners. ah i'm a I'm an emo kid who's like reconnecting with his emo kid after a long stint of trying to pretend like I wasn't still an emo kid.
00:01:50
Speaker
um I do love D&D. I'm basically, I'm a giant geek. I love video games. I play a World of Warcraft. um I love Dungeons & Dragons. Any roleplay stunt. I have three beautiful dogs who are my pride and my joy.
00:02:09
Speaker
i'm a theater kid. I come from the theater and I'm also making a return to the theater this year, which is ah probably going to tie in really nicely to our conversation.
00:02:20
Speaker
i love horror. I'm a horror kid. Anything fantasy, sci-fi right up my alley. i love a board game. i love a card game.
Human Connection vs. Digital Fatigue
00:02:30
Speaker
And I love napping.
00:02:31
Speaker
I love to take a fucking up so Nothing brings me more joy. I'm a good sleeper. yeah Same. Some people stress my husband when he's stressed can't sleep.
00:02:45
Speaker
Me so i can sleep better. Yes, me too. I'm like, oh my God, I'm stressed. I'm going to go down for a second. Yeah, exactly.
00:02:55
Speaker
Little procrastination nap. I love it I always feel so much worse when I wake up. but Yeah. Yeah. But as ah someone with ADHD, I'm like, but now the deadline is sooner. And so the adrenaline is like a little bit higher.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yes, hard relate, very hard relate. I'm so excited to chat. One of the things that you and I have both been rattling on about lately is this idea that in the era of ai slop and being extremely tired of seeing it and engaging with it and having to engage with the pro-AI trolls of the internet, that make me want to like claw my eyes out with a spoon.
00:03:39
Speaker
Just the idea that we're coming back to this era where we are really craving human connection and creativity and analog hobbies, just tangible things that we can do and and create and make and bring joy into our own lives in this chaotic hellscape in which we live.
00:04:01
Speaker
Save us from this hellscape.
00:04:05
Speaker
I, it's, do you know what is so funny about this is that i for the longest time, have had this thought, like, I can remember myself in high school, learning, like, you know, like learning Renaissance art, learning art history, and, and thinking to myself, like, why don't people do this anymore? Or like, why isn't this kind of the standard thing?
00:04:29
Speaker
I'm not like an art history major. So my and ah knowledge and opinions about art in general are very superficial. I know there's other styles of art, but I just feel like with the rise of technology, I think art became so much easier to make and so much more accessible, which is fantastic. And, you know, became so much more widespread, but you know,
00:04:55
Speaker
Like photography back in the day, like you have a set number of pictures that you can take. So those you need, you need to put a lot of thought before you press the button. And now we're like, ah ah five but we've seen those videos of those, like she and models that they do like a hundred poses a minute. They just go like, that that that that that that it's amazing. yeah you haven't seen it, please watch this. Yeah. That's what it feels like to be a business owner. creep Yes.
00:05:22
Speaker
but So that's like, that's always something that's been on my mind. I think I've always had a fascination with like, let's call it big art with big art.
00:05:33
Speaker
and I think naturally we've come to the end of the stick of of the art becoming easily inaccessible with AI, where it's literally like, here's a prompt and here's your artwork.
00:05:48
Speaker
um So it's this generation, this like it ah of it generating, like the generation, not our generation, the generating of art. has, i think, awakened in a lot of people, is especially, you know, creatives, even though i believe everyone is a creative, whether they identify with the term or not. But I think people that are like artists, writers,
00:06:15
Speaker
you know, sketchers, painters, musicians, I think there's been this effect from seeing how mediocre AI output is being venerated. Like, oh my gosh, look at what AI made in three seconds.
Appreciation for Human-Created Work
00:06:31
Speaker
And this appreciation for the human touch, you know, the commodity of the human touch,
00:06:39
Speaker
that had been for these past couple of years, I feel dwindling, is suddenly becoming a commodity again. Like people are talking about it. Like when even in our spaces of like business owners, like looking for social media manager.
00:06:55
Speaker
i don't want someone that uses AI, like willing to pay extra for human work. We're seeing this come around and we're seeing this with the rise of the analog as well. I think the first instance that I caught on to analog was the analog bag trend, which is so funny because people were obviously filming it and putting it on social media. Oh my God. Did you not see the analog bag? Oh,
00:07:19
Speaker
Okay. So the analog bag is this like big tote bag full of analog things to do and So you would pick what would go in your analog bag, like a little cross stitching things, a little magazine and like scissors and glue to do to make a collage, paint, a book, crochet, whatever, whatever, like crafty analog activities, you have this little analog bag. So people were packing analog bags and showing us in a very non-analog way what was in their and who was in their analog bags.
00:07:49
Speaker
So I love that so much. And I think from there, I mean, I'm an analog kid. Like I come from the theater and theater is very much analog. I always say I feel like theater is the antithesis of AI. Like theater is the polar opposite of of AI. So I love this so much. And i i feel like we're getting to a point. I hope we're getting to a point.
00:08:12
Speaker
in history where we are realizing slowly that we need more time offline. We need more time in in-person communities. We need more time with other human beings. We need skin to skin contact, you know, we need to like hug real people. Yeah. um And i think this is having this, this effect of, of us being in our,
00:08:42
Speaker
the generation or our times version of the Renaissance of these creators being like, oh, you think that AI art is good? i will show you like what humans can do. I will show you what what humans can make because, you know, yes technical like AI art can be technically good in like a really polished way that back in the day we would have been like oh my like you know if if like a renaissance painter saw this they'd be like oh my gosh like the the technique the technicality of this is is perfect because it's pulling on like I don't know exact human anatomy but
00:09:22
Speaker
It's only interesting if ah he if a human pulled that off, not if it's being generated. There's no feats there for me that it's being generated. Yeah, and there's no soul to it. Zero. um And I like the analogy that I've been seeing around of the idea of like running a marathon with a car.
00:09:43
Speaker
Like it's not impressive. It's just something that it's easy to go 26 miles. Why did you do that? car But it's not impressive or like it doesn't come with you think about like if you're a runner, I am not a runner. um Exercise. i amm not a runner. Yeah.
00:10:08
Speaker
Casually acquainted. i see i have friend I have a friend who does Ironmans. She did her second Ironman this year. So that's like you swim and you bike and you run and it's like an extreme version of a triathlon. It's lame.
00:10:23
Speaker
And she puts in so much work. She's like training six hours a day She travels for work constantly and like is in the hotel gym, is in the hotel pool, is like doing her stuff. And I'm like, I have no interest in doing this. I would not want many parts of her lifestyle do not appeal to me whatsoever.
00:10:43
Speaker
But it's so, like, she cares about it so much. And it's so impressive that she's, like, doing all of that and then can accomplish this really, like, insane human feat. But it wouldn't be an insane human feat if you were, like, driving in a car for the run and bike portion and then riding in a motorboat for the swim portion. Like...
00:11:06
Speaker
And then bragging about it on threads. I finished the marathon in 0.5 seconds with this car.
Celebrating Human Creativity Over AI
00:11:15
Speaker
ah um Because obviously with how much anti-AI content I post as like a systems person... get so much of the like, well, it just makes art more accessible. And now I can do things that I couldn't do before.
00:11:30
Speaker
And i understand that thought process in theory, except that you're not creating something. Like i type stuff into a computer all day too, but like that's not art and creativity most of the time.
00:11:44
Speaker
And it's just like, i want to see what you create, even if it's bad. And Christy and I talked about this ah from Christy Johnson Creative talked about this on our episode where we were just like no I'd rather just see you make bad art and I think came to an era where like more and more people are wanting that I even saw yesterday like a county here in Minnesota where I live is having their county fair and they had just like a legal pad sheet of paper with like our county fairs coming up and hand drew like little cartoon cows amazing
00:12:18
Speaker
like come come to us we didn't use ai for this and i was like what a low budget like cheeky idea where they literally just took one of their employees and wrote six pages on a legal pad in sharpie and like it got such a huge response because that's what we want we're like stop giving me the same flyer that i've seen a hundred times it's not impressive that ai can create this it's not guys the ai flyers are so bad i'm so confused yeah do you know which one gets me is the restaurant the restaurant ones send me sideways because i'm like y'all you're making the food just take a photo of the food like why why are you generating images of the food that you make
00:13:06
Speaker
I was just on like a little weekend getaway with my mom and I saw this there was like this giant one in front of a restaurant that was meant to be like shrimp. And I was like, girl, what is that animal? but Because it's it's it's not a shrimp. Or like the head was a shrimp and then the tail became something really weird. And now and I was so confused. I think that's safe to eat. I think that contains parasite. Don't eat this. It didn't even look appetizing. I don't know what's going on.
00:13:38
Speaker
i feel... i feel upset. It makes me feel upset because... There's such a push now for people to use a i And the people that are doing this push are not people that have good intentions. Nobody that's doing an AI push is going, hey guys, so we're going to do this AI push because of accessibility. Like AI is really going to make things more accessible for other people. Please, let's not pretend like that's a fucking reality. Panadigm,
00:14:14
Speaker
he posts something crazy in AI, CEO says every single day. And I always just tell people that if you want to become anti-AI, just follow him and you will be like immediately unsettled by what the creators of this technology, like what their intentions are with the technology and how they're like, well, we don't really need humanity to survive. Like it doesn't really matter if humans survive or have purpose or work or do anything. And like, yeah, like almost all of them have said, and there is ah a metric that all AI researchers, including within the companies themselves use called P-Doom. That's the percent likeliness that it will cause a mass extinction event in the next hundred years.
00:15:01
Speaker
And it's like, There's uncertainty whether it ranges from like 10 to 90%. But like, even 10%? Even 10%. Like...
00:15:11
Speaker
ah If you put out a car, if you're a car manufacturer and you put out a car and you said, Hey, everyone should buy this car. There's a 10% chance that it will kill everyone. You know, everyone, your entire species, but definitely buy it because you need it. Like, oh my God, would be insane and absolutely crazy. And that is what this technology is.
00:15:37
Speaker
oh my gosh. I know.
00:15:42
Speaker
But. But. you might Yes, there's a but. We're already seeing, on like a big scale, on the corporate scale, corporations that were like super heavy into AI buying into this technology, forcing all of their employees to use it. starting to realize that, oh, wait, it's more expensive for me to pay AI to do bad work than to pay humans to do good work. Because also LLM um outputs are wrong 40 to 60% of the time. So they're not super reliable. ah ah No, and they don't know what shrimp look like.
00:16:13
Speaker
They don't know what shrimp looks like. They don't know how to count to five. They don't know how many Rs are in the word strawberry. So like they're not reliable and companies are starting to realize that because they've had enough time in the technology now. um And then like we're saying, there's a major public problem.
00:16:35
Speaker
I kind of outcry and push back against the technology and against data centers. You know, there's a lot of political polarization everywhere in the world right now, but in the U.S. it's like the only bipartisan issue is data center construction. Yeah. Because it's impacting farming and it's impacting cities and the left who are concerned about the environment. Yeah.
00:16:59
Speaker
from just a societal impact perspective. And so I think there's a lot of hope because we are seeing some of that pushback already working, at least here in the States where like data center legislation is being passed to prevent some of these things from going through and to protect people.
00:17:15
Speaker
That to me is what gives me the hope that there is kind of this second Renaissance coming is like, no, we actually care that humanity remains. we yeah We actually care that we still exist and do things and provide value and live lives that are enjoyable and worth living. Yeah.
00:17:33
Speaker
I think I super agree with you and I'll take it even maybe one step further. i feel like, oh my gosh, this is going to sound so like conspiracy theorist. It's not like a real conspiracy and not something I believe in. It's more like a conceptual thought process for us to go through together. Yeah. But under capitalism, right? Ideally, we would all just be AIs.
00:17:59
Speaker
That's the goal of capitalism is to transform us into um a receptacle for prompt so we can fast. Yeah, just fast output.
00:18:10
Speaker
No pushback. Here it is And I'm seeing this chat with a lot of my friends who are still employed that the longer... we go on with AI existing, the more they're getting treated like AI bots by their managers or their bosses or by someone on top of them in the creative chain. Like we've forgotten that humans, especially creatives, but humans in general need time, need time to develop their ideas, need time to seek out inspirations, to do experiments, to do research, to sketch things out. It's like, okay, no, can you just... can you just make this into ah nineteen
00:18:51
Speaker
twenty s theme in seven seconds and then submit it back again? you're like, oh, ah okay. So I feel like we're so we're in this apocalyptic, like surreal end of capitalism. And I think that that goes hand in hand with value for for humanity, for the human touch to come back, which I think,
00:19:15
Speaker
That's why creativity is so important to me in this equation, because I feel like our creativity, our creative process, our connection to play, to imagination, that's what makes us humans. That's what is our humanity is intrinsically connected to creativity, to imagination, not just like you know, creativity as an art, but also creative problem solving, right?
The Value of In-Person Interactions
00:19:43
Speaker
And ability, imagination, not to just imagine, you know, fun, polka dotted green elephants, but also to imagine like a possible future to imagine what what structures could look like, what systems could look like, what we could do as individuals who run businesses in a capitalistic society. So I think it goes farther than pretty art.
00:20:06
Speaker
Capitalism hand in hand with AI is cutting us ah cutting us off from this. And going back to why this renaissance is happening, why an analog renaissance in specific, why we're seeing this rise of in-person events, why theater is having a comeback moment, why people are you know seeking inspiration outside is because...
00:20:28
Speaker
Just like AI, like we run on a bank of information like we are humans. So we need to go experience things. Otherwise, we're doing the human centipede where we're all just eating and regurgitating the same crap into each other's mouths ad nauseum until the end.
00:20:48
Speaker
want to talk about community more with you because we've like touched on like in-person events, in-person community and the importance of that. So I work fully from home. One thing that I get told all the time are people are like, it's crazy how many social events you go to or how many like things that you do.
00:21:06
Speaker
attend or you're so busy. like I am so busy with work, but I will like like rip myself out of my cave to go out to a social event, even if I'm tired, even if I'm doing whatever. And people are like, it's crazy that you do that. And I'm like, no, I would go crazy if I did it. like Humans are social creatures. Yeah. and The way that if i went, if I stayed home and I went down to my couch and I turned on the TV and I just relaxed every night, like some nights, that's great. But if I did that every night, i would just become a shell of myself because we need people and we need interaction with people. And it's not about being introverted or extroverted. Like we're all social beings and we all need that. I think that for me, what I'm seeing with, unfortunately, especially in corporate America, is people feeling so discarded at their day jobs.
00:22:05
Speaker
That if they aren't finding that in-person community, it's even more depressing and isolating because you're just kind of like, I don't have energy at the end of the day and i go home and I just feel the weight of the heaviness of all of it. But if you do have community that we're leaning on that more and being more involved in that because it's a way to...
00:22:28
Speaker
cope and it's a way to understand each other and be able to talk about it which is so valuable we all need that yeah i feel like we need if everyone's third space was like an in-person third space that would be amazing ideal Ideal.
00:22:50
Speaker
And this is from someone who's like third space for the past five to six years has been digital, has yeah literally just been gaming, which is great. Like a game with other people. I have a community. We game together. we we like what we had like a meeting. So we all met up and spent a week, which was super lovely and and wholesome. But that was like two days that we saw each other in person as opposed to the been gaming for five years.
00:23:19
Speaker
um And I've... I don't know why, I don't know the sequence of events of of why I stayed away, but I'm a theater person. i've got I did my my bachelor's, my master's in theater. I worked as a theater maker. I was teaching high school theater. COVID happened and then theater was gone and I started doing odd jobs online to get by, which led me to something, led me to the next thing, next thing, next thing. And then one day I woke up and I had literally worked myself up to like creative director. of And you're like, how did we get here?
00:23:54
Speaker
like How did we get here? And I haven't stepped foot in the theater in six years, which is crazy. I think i think there's there' is some kind of like psychological block that I had because I didn't even think like about it.
00:24:09
Speaker
i'm and I'm unpacking this now. um And so I had a really great one-on-one session. Well, I had several one-on-one sessions that led to this happening, but I booked...
00:24:19
Speaker
a week-long theater-intensive workshop here in Barcelona with a group that I had been admiring since I moved here like five years ago. um And I kid you not, not even 10 minutes in, like five minutes into this workshop starting, I literally woke up. I was like, where the fuck have I been for six years? What have I been doing?
00:24:41
Speaker
Why haven't i been here? I literally, I was having like a crisis of like, why haven't I, like, what have I been doing? Like, this is what I love. Like, this is this is my life. Like, this is everything I know is because of these spaces is because of these people.
00:24:57
Speaker
um And so I'm going through, i'm going through a crisis right now, but like a really productive crisis where I'm being very intentional about spending my time in person and building towards more in-person things.
00:25:11
Speaker
So, Third spaces, your third space needs to be somewhere that that's in person. That's where that's where I'm getting to. Because it's like you said, we are social creatures. we We're humans. We come from tribes, we come from villages, we come from living together.
00:25:28
Speaker
And yeah, we're super isolated right now. Super, especially as people that like work online and run businesses online. Like like I'm the extreme of this. i'm I'm used to being literally in the theater with real people, like playing. It's like this ultimate end of this one spectrum. And now I'm sat in front of the screen sometimes like 12 to 14 hours a day. not Sometimes i' even speak to another person besides my husband for...
00:25:57
Speaker
Days on end. And it's so taxing. It's so it's so isolating. It's so sad. It's just... it's I don't think it's the way for us. Yeah. And I think that people are waking up to that in their own
Creativity and Personal Identity
00:26:14
Speaker
way, right? Having their own kind of personal renaissance in that way.
00:26:19
Speaker
one of the... I'm actually having her on the podcast later this year, but one of the knitters that I follow... left her six figure corporate job to pursue knitting pattern design full time and has replaced her income.
00:26:35
Speaker
And to me, I'm like, that is not only like awesome for her. So excited. What a validation of her decision, but also a validation that people want the analog experience yeah and the experience of buying from somebody that they want to support or feel like they know. Obviously, she's also a content creator. That's how I found her. but But they want that experience of like, I started knitting exclusively because I was like, I need to stop double screening in front of the TV. What if I just put something else in my hands? Fair, 100%. And I think that more people are finding that version for themselves and craving that. And we're seeing a rise of these like new small business owners who are leaving that corporate sector where they feel discarded. And they're like, but I know I have something to offer.
00:27:39
Speaker
that people want. I mean, that's my own experience too, is like, okay, well, I know what I like to do. And I know that I want to work with small business owners. I work almost exclusively with creatives. I work a lot in the wedding industry space. And I'm like, these people are fun and they appreciate my work and great.
00:27:57
Speaker
like match made in heaven. And now when I do my work, I get to engage with people that I really enjoy engaging with. And all of my clients are super cool. And a lot of them become or start as friends. And what a rewarding experience that you don't get in corporate because you're just a number. you're just trauma bonding in corporate.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i have that so I have the same experience with, I think the nature also of the work that I do. And because it's informed, I guess, by these theater practices, which are very,
00:28:39
Speaker
they're very deep. I think surface surface level, my work looks, you know, it's very silly. It's very playful. I have wigs and like, you know, glue googly eyes on my face. But the work itself is very deep, especially the work that I do with clients and the routes that we take to to get to these realizations. Like I think theater is a beautiful total art world.
00:29:05
Speaker
Like everything goes into theater, whether it's text, visuals, lights, painting of set designs, costume, acting, sound design, like everything it's everything in a live studio audience. and and And you can't be superficial when there's so much involved. And so the relationship that I end up having, like I'm basically friends with all my clients now, or we're like very, very good friends. And I hate seeing this threat rhetoric of online of like, you shouldn't be friends with your clients. Like these are not your friends. These are your clients. And like, girl, we're actual friends now. but What a great experience to be friends with the people that you work with. If we all have to make money because we all live in a capitalistic society, i want to work with people who I enjoy spending time with. yeah And we get to do that as business owners, especially
00:30:01
Speaker
If we're willing to show up as who we are and then those people find us and they're like, yep, you're my people and let's let's hang out. Let's work together. I think there's also a really false narrative in my experience of people saying, well, your friends will undercut you. they'll They won't pay you. They won't whatever. And I was like.
00:30:20
Speaker
you have bad friends because my friends value my work. I was like, I'm paying my friends. My friends are paying me. We're figuring out trades, if that makes sense for both of us. yeah And i think it doesn't have to be an either or.
00:30:36
Speaker
like i don't think that your friends are trying to exploit you all the time. um In fact, I think that they're mostly not if they're good friends. Most of my experience has been that If I am friends with somebody, they may be like, hey, I can't afford you right now, but I really want to work with you and I will let you know when I can.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah, I've had that happen so many times over this past year of people just letting me know, like, listen, I just want to let you know that I really want to work with you and like, I'm going to get there. Do know the feeling as like a business owner to know that someone is saving up to work with you is, oh my gosh, like what an what an honor. Honestly, it's such an honor that like you think that I'm worth you saving up for is so amazing, especially as like, I don't know, I had a rough like childhood and teenage years. So like my perception of my own self-worth amazing.
00:31:32
Speaker
we're working on it. We're getting better. It's getting there. But like, I'm i'm starting from like a really bad place. I'm starting from crap. So this notion that someone's like, I think you or work is super cool. And I'm going to save up because I want to work with you to me is like, wow, like the highest praise. And I'm so lucky that I get to yeah I'm so lucky that I get to work with people like that. To be fair, I, I don't work with friends.
00:32:01
Speaker
But we'll become friends after we've worked together. oh yeah. And then i think I've i' have actually had some bad experiences working with friends, but it's not because they undercut me. It's just because the boundaries between like... Are blurry. I feel like reviews, friends are really bad with reviews, especially if they they they don't do this very often. i'm like, girl, no. you get It's two rounds of feedback.
00:32:25
Speaker
We're on round 17. im We're not going to do this one anymore. Yeah. Yeah. We spend so much of our life working. I left corporate because I don't want to work with people that don't respect my work or perspective. Yeah, your values, what you stand for. Yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
What has your journey been like as you are kind of, you know, you've been talking about this more and more online of coming into that authentic version of yourself and letting people see you in that way I feel like I have always had a problem with how to present myself. I think very consistently for different reasons throughout different phases of life. um I had to figure out what was the safest way to present.
00:33:20
Speaker
Circling back, surprise, surprise to no one. um Theater saved me from that. Theater was the first place where I could... Discover who I was in a safe way, embody what I was discovering safely, experiment without judgment, without shame, without having to like be something fixed, without having to have a fixed identity that now I have to stick to because this is my identity and this is who I am and this is my authenticity. um Theater saved me from that.
00:33:57
Speaker
ah Theater saved me from a lot. Okay. Hashtag theater. Hashtag go take a fucking theater class. If you haven't, go sign up for community theater. It will change your life. But I think that's a really big part of of the work that I do. and especially now I'm going through an intentional slow, but intentional pivot because I've discovered that that that's at, that's what at the core of my work with people. And that's what I want to do is this creative liberation. and I want people to have the same experience that I have.
00:34:32
Speaker
had where my authenticity is not fixed. It's not a fixed thing. It's not a picture. It's on a snapshot. It changes every day. My authenticity is whatever I want to do in the moment that's going to make my body and my mind feel good and I'm aligned with that, that's what my authenticity is. And as a theater kid, mike my authenticity is performance. I love performing. Like one of my values as words hurt is entertainment. I think entertainment is such a noble art, to to make something for, to present something for other people, to want to lift people's spirits, to make one, want people to feel good. I've always, like, I've always done that as a kid. You know, I, I i always used to put on shows for family and like get my grandma, wrap some bags around her head, like just as a hat, not...
00:35:25
Speaker
Not suffocation. And like, yeah just just to confirm, no grandmas were harmed in the making of these shows. But like, I used to get the family involved. Like, so that's always been a part of me. The reason I left corporate, the reason I started Words Hurt,
00:35:41
Speaker
is because i I wanted more from my profession. I don't subscribe to like this is work. This is life. I think we all have a purpose. And i think that business or the way that you know, how we are of service to the world is connected to our identity, who we are and what our purpose is. So to me, yes, they have different spaces, but one should support the other. And for me, my business is a tool of self-expression, of self-discovery, of pushing the boundaries of what creativity can mean. um Because...
00:36:16
Speaker
i I started Words Hurt because I was sick of my superior creatives telling me this is too much. Like this is we can't do this or like this is a bad idea or not even pitching my idea to the bigger team because they were like, no, no, no, this is they're not going to like this. I was like, you know what? Fuck that. I'm going to do my own ideas. And that's like that was the premise of why I started.
00:36:36
Speaker
And it's been such a transformative journey. Like, oh my gosh, being a solo business owner is not for the faint of heart. It's so it's such a difficult experience, but transformative. Like it it really has been like, I think this has been maybe the best.
00:36:53
Speaker
gears personally um of my life from someone who's like, you know, has really bad anxiety, PTSD, depression. but um My business has has helped me in so many ways.
00:37:09
Speaker
Besides, you know, the obvious financial.
Emotional Aspects of Running a Business
00:37:12
Speaker
And I want to work with people who have that same connection to their business, whose business is an extension of their identity or is a tool for them to exercise some kind of purpose or some kind of service that they have outside of this capitalistic nature of yes, we just want to make money going back to ai is like why are people using an ai it's for capitalism because they want to do something faster it because they want to save themselves a task is because they want to not pay for you know a whole other purpose and to come do this more productive yes there's a very small percentage of people who use ai and is helpful because for accessibility reasons yes exists but that's not the majority
00:37:51
Speaker
And where're we quickly we're quickly coming away from that, I think. I hope, again. I see it happening day by day. I see this, the AI bubble popping and and, you know, the big AI monster more than ever getting more desperate.
00:38:08
Speaker
but But we have AI, but have you seen this? New feature, surprise, one more. And everyone's like, girl, we face. Have you? Yeah, exactly. if we made it worse?
00:38:22
Speaker
what What if we made it so much worse, but we did it with your mom's voice? What if we used your mom's voice for this in an AI way? Could you imagine this is some black mirror shit? Like, no. really is.
00:38:41
Speaker
No. I feel like lately, something I've been experiencing in business, because like you touched on, running a business is like throwing yourself in the fire of self-exploration. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
Because it's such a mirror in the way that like a close relationship is a mirror in the way that so many things are, but like you don't have any other choice but to discover who you are and what you want and you won't survive as a business if you don't do those things. Yep.
00:39:13
Speaker
And it's so fascinating to me because I never knew what I wanted to do when I grew up. yeah I never felt like, oh, I don't have like a purpose or I don't know what I want to do. And I've always had a lot of career anxiety around that because like you said,
00:39:30
Speaker
I don't think that I fit into a box. Like I love a lot of things. I'm very creative, but I'm very technical. And that's why I do what I do now. But it was such a winding path to get to where I am um being a technical person for creatives because this box didn't exist.
00:39:50
Speaker
And that's, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, like it sounds but like both of us did start your own business because you're like, well, There's not a box that exists for me, so I'm going to have to build it. and Exactly that. And the only choice you have is to try and fail and discover and be like, oh, this is my, especially as someone with ADHD, this is my whole new personality. And then being like, oh, wait, actually, I hated that. but And then trying again or being so excited for a launch and then being like, no one else is excited for that. Cool. Just me.
00:40:30
Speaker
And so you have to. It's a transformative experience because there's no other way to do business. no, yeah. Yeah, this you're so right. It's intense shadow work. Like business is intense shadow work. you're going to meet the good, the bad, the ugly, the fun, the
Balancing Business with Personal Life
00:40:45
Speaker
whimsical. Like there's so much in there.
00:40:47
Speaker
I don't know if you've been feeling this lately because the energy in the world is ah bad. Bad? Yeah. off Everything's off.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah. But like, I love my work and my clients so much that I've been feeling so much of a like extremes version of the emotional roller coaster of the good and the bad and the ugly is like so much more extreme everywhere. or it's like extreme bad days or extreme bad feelings or feelings of existential dread. And then extreme, like, oh my God, I love what I do and I love what I'm building and I love the people I get to work with. I'm so energized by getting to meet new clients, engage with my community. I'm really close with like my neighbors in my neighborhood. and Nice. Like I've intentionally built a really strong community here in Minnesota, which took a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of...
00:41:49
Speaker
Putting myself out there. and Putting myself out there. Yeah. yeah you' Being rejected. yeah Frightening. Now I'm like, oh, wait, but now it let it's the culmination. I went from ah always being afraid to throw a birthday party and have no one show up to having to last year rent a venue for my Friendsgiving because everyone wasn't going to be able to fit into my home.
00:42:14
Speaker
Amazing. So there's so many good things and so many bad things happening at once in my brain that I feel like sometimes I'm just like, am I going to explode today? Maybe. Maybe.
00:42:31
Speaker
it could be It could be any day. tbd Yeah. It's literally that. I think I share this feeling as well. There's so much tragedy and like so much tragedy that I'm like directly connected to as well. But it's so hard to.
00:42:51
Speaker
it's It's difficult to show up a lot of the time. I don't know. I feel like I have to do it. i i almost feel like, again, going back to like that value of entertainment and...
00:43:04
Speaker
what I believe my purpose to be, I feel like that's part of my purpose is showing up this way, especially when the world is falling apart. Because if I can help in raising people's capacity for imagination and creativity, then maybe we can imagine a way out of this and create a better place for us to exist in together, you know, and somebody else does the harder parts. but You know, we all we all have our roles.
00:43:44
Speaker
Yes, running a business is a lot of work, and it's hard, and it can be really taxing. But also, if you build a business that you love and do something that you're you feel a lot of purpose in or passion in, or creativity and joy and you're creating and doing things that are bringing other people joy, bringing yourself joy, it can also be such a way for us to cope with those things of like, okay, well now I have new friends because I have awesome clients and now i have you know I've done these things, I put myself out there, I went to this event even though I was tired and have been working 14 hour days for the last two weeks.
00:44:26
Speaker
But it's also the way to cope with all of the other shit that we don't have a lot of control over.
Encouraging Real-World Engagement
00:44:33
Speaker
Yeah. Humans need other humans. Surprise, surprise.
00:44:39
Speaker
Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed that we are not meant to be sat in of these little screens by our damn selves forever? Yes. Bring back the Renaissance. We're ready for it. Bring back the Renaissance. We're ready. um I always like to end our sessions in the same way.
00:45:00
Speaker
Giving you a soapbox. What's your humanity hot take? Oh my gosh. um My hot take is, it's literally this. This is my hot take.
00:45:14
Speaker
You need your third space has to be an in-person space. Get the fuck off your couch, get off your phone, and go meet a group of people and engage in a collective activity. If you're a sports person, i don't know why you'd be listening to me on this podcast. So go...
00:45:36
Speaker
Go read this. Go sit. Go have a reading party. Sit down and read somewhere. Make a nice tea and sell their friends. club Join a book club. go to crochet knitting nights. Join the theater. Go take...
00:45:49
Speaker
take an improv. They have improv classes like everywhere in every city of the world. And they're like two hours long or a weekend or a week. You can commit for as long. You're going to have so much fun. Trust me. Go to that. Go to a quiz night. Go to quiz night at pubs. I love quiz night. I love a quiz night. Go to karaoke.
00:46:09
Speaker
Yes. Go to the park. Go people watching the park. Just go touch consensually. No,
00:46:19
Speaker
Make consensual skin-to-skin contact with another human being. Just go integrate yourselves into a real group of people, a real community, and watch therere the ripples of benefits flow into your lives.
00:46:36
Speaker
Meanwhile, there's probably been five new AI updates since we started recording this one. 100%. Couldn't agree more. hundred percent couldn't agree more Go be with people.
00:46:49
Speaker
Talk to them. ah Risk not liking them or them not liking you. the worst that can happen. Well, not the worst that can happen, but most of the time the worst that will happen is that it's a little bit awkward.
00:47:04
Speaker
And that's also good for you. Yeah. Character building. character Character building. Social skills building, which we're all losing ah with AI. And...
00:47:18
Speaker
living in discomfort, which is a valuable skill as well.
00:47:24
Speaker
Well put. Good. Great ending.
00:47:28
Speaker
yeah Be more uncomfortable. the end. Yeah. Stop being comfortable, you know, but that's great advice. It's true. We're so we're too comfortable life comfort.
00:47:44
Speaker
live and life isn't comfort real life is discomfort. it's But like in a fun way, you know like adventures aren't comfortable.
Closing and Call to Action
00:47:59
Speaker
They're thrilling. They're exciting. Nobody's ever like, Oh, I'm really relaxed in this adventure, you know, on my couch. No.
00:48:09
Speaker
Get out there. Get out there. Make some friends. Make some real human people friends. Speaking of making friends, Cal, thank you for being here. Where can people find you so that they can become your friend as well? but um You can find me on Instagram or threads at wordshurt.copy. And you can find and you can find me Probably in a theater near you sometime. If you look hard enough, I might be there, but you have to come out of your house and you have to look and you have to, you have to make sure if I'm there or not.
00:48:46
Speaker
Only one way to find out. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Thanks so much for listening. I'm your host, Gail Fraser. And for more information about Where's Your Humanity, you can check out at Where's Your Humanity pod on Instagram. And for more information about me and the work that I do, you can go to my website, worksimple.io. which is also my Instagram and threads handle.
00:49:11
Speaker
Our lovely theme music is brought to you by Emily Bjorki and you can go check out her album. Are you going to heaven or hell anywhere you listen to music? Thanks for being here and I'll talk to you later.