Introduction to Irina and Holistic Universe
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Speaker
Welcome back to Connected with Iva. I have a very special guest today, the lovely Irina who I met at, well, where did we actually meet? I think we met. It was in a coffee morning.
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were really connected. So I thought it would be, would have like a lovely conversation. So I'm joined by Irina, energy healer and founder of Holistic Universe. Thank you.
00:00:22
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So nice to have you. Nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Understanding Apathy and Its Impact
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and I'm diving straight in I want to talk about something that I've experienced myself a lot throughout my life this kind of feeling why you don't want to do anything you you have it's very difficult to feel motivated to do anything when you have apathy So i want to talk about apathy first.
00:00:47
Speaker
What it is, why does it come? Some people live their entire lives in that state of apathy. So, yeah. Yes. It's a very good subject to talk about because in modern world, it's happened a lot to almost everybody. and People go through different stages of their life.
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And at some of the stages, apathy is present. And it's not necessarily they recognize it or they do something about it.
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And sometimes they feel stuck and they feel um not motivated. They feel like something's going against them, but they cannot explain why this is happening and what's the reason. especially with the level of stress that we're living our lives these days. And very often we feel completely disconnected if we go through that level of stress, like a constant stress that's happening because of the work, because of um family circumstances or partnerships and various different reasons.
Stages of Apathy Explained
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And we could easily and happens very often in that we get to certain stages of apathy. And it's great to talk about it more, to be able to recognize it in our life and to know what to do and how to help also other people around us. If we recognize it that they are in this kind of stage in their life, because that's what the person actually needs when he gets to that stage as well. Close friendship, you know, a love.
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So what's the first step of recognizing it? Because when we are in that state, sometimes because we're so demotivated, it's very difficult to, well to even recognize the concept of motivation or what it you know to feel it in your body because you're not there.
00:02:55
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So apathy has a different stages as people say, fight, flight, um freeze, and then disconnection or complete apathy. The first stage obviously is the fight.
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It's where we start to feel sort of... anxiety, irritation, being upset from yes from people around us.
Recognizing and Overcoming Apathy
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So yes, easy irritation, anxiety, and when we feel super stressed, when we work too much. And because ah we live in this kind of society these days that obviously success is um compared to long hours of work and being constantly busy, being unavailable because you are following your dream of um to become whatever the society is pushing you to become. But very often people... They don't follow the true self or their path. They just um follow some idea that they need to become that person. They need to work hard to get to that position. Or it could be because of um being in a wrong relationship.
00:04:13
Speaker
When you have emotional issues with your partners you yeah with your partner or a family and you keep suppressing those emotions, that could also lead to this irritation and this stage of anxiety and stress as well. The next stage is flight where that person is becoming more busy at work, is becoming more closed in itself. It starts maybe not to want to get to socialize. It realizes that something's happening maybe at some this point. He gets to the stage of sort of overworking, losing interest to do certain things.
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and sort of being more close into himself or herself, being constantly busy, more irritated, obviously, and more disconnected in a way than before.
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The next stage we have is called freeze. When you actually You know something's wrong, you start to feel that this is not the right way, that's not the person who you are, and that's not how life's supposed to be. So you're realizing something's wrong, but it's a stage when you're kind of losing the motivation to do something.
00:05:40
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You're losing that and that willingness to fight life, to do something. And then we get to the stage of anxiety, which is the worst. When you actually lose even your energy to do something, you feel that is the complete disconnection. You feel not yourself anymore.
00:06:01
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You don't have that energetic power, willingness to even move from your bed sometimes. In more dramatic cases, you just feel like everybody's stranger, you feel like doomed, you feel like in a prison almost.
00:06:24
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And that is a very sad stage to be. i mean, all the stages, they're really not the place where wees should be. and As early as we notice the patterns symptoms, the better is for us to get back to ourselves and to to be healed and to to get to where we need to be.
Recovery Methods: Self-love and Nature
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So how do we go back to reconnecting to ourselves so we can come out of that? The first and most important thing is to realize that we are in that stage.
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bit worse this I know there is so many people that they're just constantly staying in that constant stress and constant fight and flight that when they get to the stage of freeze or apathy sometimes they don't even know what the reason is and how to get out of there. So the first and most important step is to realise that we need help, we need to we need somebody to help us, to guide us, to get out of there. Because obviously being in the stage of apathy, in any of the stages of the apathy, i we're in a way more or less disconnected with ourselves.
00:07:43
Speaker
And our intuition is kind of lost and we get to the stage when we are unable to make any decisions to lead us to the right way. And yes, very often we make mistakes and we are we cannot focus, we have a brain fog and we...
00:08:04
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and We are constantly exhausted physically and emotionally. we switch our emotions as well. I forgot to mention that the stage of the final stage of apathy, you're completely numb.
00:08:17
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You become numb to all emotions in a way. and then me You shut your emotions. So in that stage is where the people, they don't want to feel. It's too painful. Yes, it's too painful. So they don't want to feel anymore.
00:08:36
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and They don't want to feel life. They don't want to feel emotions to other people. And very often your partner, or family, or a close person can become like a stranger. um you don't feel, yes, anything. The path to get out of that is first to realize we are there.
00:08:56
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Because very often people try to ignore it. People don't want to admit to themselves that there's something happening that is not right because they want to be to have this image of the perfect person, obviously following social rules and expectations they have.
00:09:15
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Everything is fine with them and and they are the perfect person. Understanding that we need help is the first first step to going in in the right direction. We can look for help from other person, but help can also mean do the right steps in our life to get to a better to go back to the path of finding ourselves.
00:09:41
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And that doesn't mean that road is very dramatic or things has to change immediately. Actually, sometimes when things are happening slowly, like slow recovery,
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is the best way forward. So nothing extreme, nothing dramatic. Even connecting with nature, like relax and take time off as long as you need Don't feel guilty for taking time off from work to recover emotionally and mentally, just do it. Connecting with the people the love and the people who love us the most in our life.
Reconnecting with Intuition through Slowing Down
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Actually, love is one of the biggest healing force existing. And and in the case of apathy, can really, really help and motivate. You have to be open to it, right? Yes.
00:10:39
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Yes, but sometimes even if the people in a stage of apathy, they have shut their emotions like the constant showing of love from the closest people around us can still slowly bring them back to the to the stage of ah feeling safe.
00:11:04
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And that is a stage that is very important for the recovery stage. So going back to yourself, feeling safe, understanding yourself, like understanding who we truly are, what are our own emotions, like our own emotional desires rather than what people expect from us or what the society shaped us at, like getting out of that stage of conditioning and that stage of feeling
00:11:36
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like a marathon to get to somewhere. Life a lot of that, right? Life is a lot of that. And that's the reason why so many people are getting to the stage of apathy, to some of the stages, not not necessarily to the final stage where they feel completely shut and exhausted, right?
00:11:59
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But a lot of people feel up to, let's say, the stage of freeze where you you know that you need the help, you know that something's wrong.
00:12:09
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But because you've shut your, you numb your emotions, you're so unable to even ask for help or you don't know how to get to the stage of recovery. But there's a lot about hustle culture because society is promoted to do, do, do, do do grow, grow, you know always be. And it's so celebrated that sometimes when you're not doing that or if you don't want to partake in that, you're like, oh, I'm obviously like not a proper human being or I'm not connected because I should be hustling too, right? Because everyone should be hustling or da-da-da-da. And then for me, i really value...
00:12:46
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you know, slow life, slow living. Absolutely. That's the way. Sometimes I feel guilty for that. now you shouldn't feel guilty. That's how life's supposed to be. Like that's, I mean, we can still achieve our goals.
00:13:01
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And if you do it on a slow way, but more focus on the right things you're doing, you can still achieve your goals. Because when we get to a constant do, do, do and being constantly busy, that is extreme stress for our nervous system. We're just we're not designed for that kind of level of stress.
00:13:23
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And very often that's where the ah we become anxious, the irritation starts and... you know, the the shutting of emotions and all this connected with the levels of apathy, they start slowly to build up because we are it is like a marathon. We are running to it and and get to a different stage for where we expect it to be.
00:13:50
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But we're completely forgetting ourselves. Well, talking about ourselves, how can we truly reconnect to our intuition and be able to listen to our intuition so we know what the right thing is without getting like confused with impulses or anxiety?
Aligning with One's True Self
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or So how to reconnect to the voice itself? So the intuition it's like, um I mean, it's not something that is from the outside and it's not just for privileged people or anything like that. Everybody has their intuition. When we are in a state of constant stress and anxiety and constantly doing, we are so busy that we we kind of shut in a way that intuition to some extent.
00:14:42
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we lose the connection, let's say, with that intuition. And as we slow down and as we reconnect to ourselves, so slowly we're starting to look inwards and things start to feel more clearer.
00:15:00
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And so that's the backward process of recovering from against the constant stress and running. And as we slow down, sort of meditating, getting back to nature, spend time in stillness, or just have some time with your own thoughts because the busy life we're living very often we don't even have a time to think and to stay with our thoughts and sort of to process things and as that happens more often
00:15:39
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And then intuition naturally just becomes stronger and we start to trust it more. And our life gets more aligned to who we are, not to who we expect it to be. So that is our true self. We find... our path, we things we are able to make better decisions, obviously guided by our intuition. So that's very, very important. And it again, it's a part of the healing process.
00:16:11
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I'm thinking of myself sometimes. There's this thing when it comes to life, right? When you sit on the path and then you really commit yourself to continuing on that journey. But sometimes the way life works, sometimes you might have to abandon the path.
00:16:28
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Sometimes thinks things shift in ways that you haven't predicted because you can't predict you know what your life will look like. So very often we choose certain paths yeah and paths They are not necessarily our true path that we need to follow.
00:16:45
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um Especially if we're younger, we're very ambitious and we want to be this person. We want to become that. And we think that's the right direction. It happens to absolutely everybody. And we think, oh, no, that's me. That's like, I love this. And that's where I want to be. And that's what I want to do.
00:17:02
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We take these decisions because that is based on the decision our mind is telling us, that's your that's where I want to be, that's what I want to become. But as we sort of develop ourselves, find our true self, we learn the things about us more, what I actually really like, what I'm ah comfortable with.
00:17:27
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Simple example, black's not my color of actually... The red is really my color. really seem to discover it here, otherwise I follow up mine. Yes, so there you go. yeah Maybe not this pale yellow. Yes, so you're still discovering yourself. you You're going through the path of... um finding your true self.
00:17:49
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And as we are that path of finding our true self, and then we discover who we truly are and what aligns to us. so And then we naturally kind of discover the direction we want to take because We feel more motivated to do that. We feel so strong about certain cause or a certain thing that ah we just know it. Like there is is is that feeling that you just know you have to do this thing.
00:18:24
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And very often, if you look around it, you will find out that actually life took you to that step and it's not a coincidence. It's like looking around everything that happened around in your life took you to that step, to that level.
Jikuchi-o Healing and Energy Work
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And it's not a coincidence at all. And sometimes it could happen that everything there is set for you to make even your first step to to get into the right path. And that is alignment, the stage of alignment when we get there, when we start to trust our intuition more.
00:19:04
Speaker
How does energy healing help with that? First of all, what is energy healing? Energy healing or what I practice is Jikuchi-o healing, which I've learned in Liv's Institute from my teacher, Yomiko Sakura. It's a self-healing. So energy Jikuchi-o means self-healing. The way I practice and I initiate as the healing process in you. Some people might get to that stage naturally.
00:19:36
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But there is very often when people get, they're so confused and so lost that they don't know what to do. So they need help and direction. And one of the the methods, the ways is energy healing. Some guided meditations can help as well. So various different methods to help people get to better intuition, better um finding their path and better alignment in their life.
00:20:06
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So energy healing, we use different methods, but one of them could be aura cleansing, unblocking, certain... um So as as we...
00:20:19
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live our life, we encounter some blocks in our body, some of them based on stress, some of them could be a depression, something dramatic that happened in our life or things that we couldn't, our body couldn't really digest in the right way.
00:20:38
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so for instance, if it's a depression or sadness because of depression because of we suppress certain emotions and we weve we felt sad, but they couldn't get processed in the right way. Or it could be constant stress because of the busy lifestyle we have. It's a various different life paths that can get to the stage of creating energetic blocks in our body.
00:21:08
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And energy healing helps with that, help us to feel more calmer, more relaxed and getting back to yourself and getting back to your intuition and things like that. So that's one of the ways which I
The Role of Self-love in Healing
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do. in And you can find more on my website, holisticuniverse.org.
00:21:30
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But yes, so that is one of the ways definitely energy healing can help with that. Like I said, love healing, that is amazing way, like an unconditional love, being from your child. or being from your partner, if that's the type of love you're experiencing.
00:21:52
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Constant care and attention a very, very powerful way as well to to get us back to ourself, to our path, and to ultimately to trust ourselves more and to develop our intuition.
00:22:11
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So how can we give ourselves love? Because... For me especially, i've realized the importance of because of it my childhood, et cetera, I realized how important it is to give myself all the love that I want, to want it from someone else. Then there might be, let's say, disappointment, or there's this kind of feedback where you don't get what you want because someone else is giving to you, right? So you just never know how someone will react or family dynamics. So it's very, like, it could be up and down.
00:22:46
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to So to have that permanent state of love, It's a great state to be. So nobody else can do that. So love means to respect yourself, to do the things you like without feeling a ashamed or without feeling guilt for it.
00:23:07
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Even if it's... um having your morning cup of coffee and looking you know from the window every morning and enjoying the beautiful weather or the flower in your garden. or those like a five minutes of bliss could be the moment of love because those are five minutes you give to yourself is the five minutes you deserve.
00:23:35
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And you shower yourself with that without love, with the with with what you see. I used to have this kind of, ah so some people love to have baths as like a self-care routine. I used to have showers as a self-care thing.
00:23:49
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But it would be, the setup would be a bath setup. So I'd have candles. And that was when I lived in Portugal. So i I have a view of Lisbon from my window. And I have this like long shower with candles. And it was like my so spiritual time to myself. Mm-hmm. That's beautiful way. Yes. Like enjoying the things you truly love. Like even if it's a looking in the mirror and changing dresses for 20 minutes so or it's just that time for yourself, for something that you truly love or having this hot bath filled with, um you know, beautiful aromas and candles and,
00:24:30
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or Enjoying your hot chocolate without having any guilt and you knowing this is your moment of love for yourself for that day. And also learning to reward yourself. um I mean, those those are in a way um moments of rewards.
00:24:50
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But I mean, the rewarding yourself is like sometimes also if you need to buy yourself for yourself something, not to have that guilt for spending those money for it. Obviously not going excessively that you will regret later on, but... i' something that will give you a pure joy. and you know that looking at that thing later on will, you know, give you a smile, put a smile on your face every every single time. So that is ah something that is act of love for yourself as well. Or having that holiday that you dreamed for, going to the park and enjoying the beautiful flowers every single day.
00:25:32
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So that is love, I think, is the way, not just the love we receive from the people around us who have deep care for us and and unconditional love, hopefully.
00:25:46
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um That is amazing. ah But something that, like that we love and something we do for ourselves that can motivate you. To do something that can give you the energy to do that thing you have to do or to finish that task that is so difficult or something that can give you a wings and make you fly. Really, that's love. whether you do it for yourself. um Sometimes giving love also can give us back a lot in terms of love because caring to others is, ah I mean, is also a way of love.
00:26:29
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We receive when we give as well.
Managing Energy-draining Environments
00:26:32
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That's very true, which is right. It's also in Not just that to get something back, but kindness is very, very important. But, you know, let's say let's say we don't like our surroundings and we're in a place, it could be job, house, any kind of surrounding that we have.
00:26:50
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can't escape, that really drains our energy. What can we do? What can people do to still try to come out of it, you know, like emotionally? Because it's it could be very draining to be in a place you don't want be, and it's not always easy to leave it. Yeah. So again, that's happened most of the time because we are in one of the sages of the apathy.
00:27:14
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And you feel demotivated completely because you're in the wrong job, on the long wrong relationship, in the wrong place. It's exactly how we feel that we cannot change anything.
00:27:26
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But by reconnecting to yourself and listening to intuition, you can get the solution for this issue. And usually the healing starts when we make the first step for change. Yeah.
00:27:41
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So the first step for changing your job, is as much as painfully sounds or difficult or almost impossible because you've been working there for 10, 20 years in some cases, or because that is the job that brings you so much money and that you can you can support your lifestyle.
00:28:02
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But staying in that stage, in that condition is unhealthy. And realizing it is the first step. Then getting back to yourself and reconnecting to yourself.
00:28:15
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When that process happened, that job or that wrong person we are with, it becomes like everything becomes so much more obvious for us.
00:28:28
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And we start to slowly disconnect from it. and It's a part of the healing process. So something makes us get disconnected from it.
00:28:39
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Obviously, to have that job, you slowly start to feel... That's not the right thing for you. And as you heal, you start to make the first steps for change. The same is if you are in the wrong relationship or the wrong marriage.
00:28:57
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By going to the process of healing, and realizing who you are and realizing how dysfunctional this is, then you slowly start to make the first steps, even though at the beginning it seems impossible.
00:29:16
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But then slowly... Those steps, they are like, as we said earlier, it's like the piece of the puzzle yeah gets together and that drives you to the right direction to make the right steps for you.
00:29:32
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And if it's necessarily you leave that job or you leave that person There has to be trust in there, right? That when we connect to our intuition, we will find the right path. But it feels so uncomfortable at the beginning because our entire life is like shuffled, you know, just kind of upside down. but that's when we're at that stage. Because it doesn't benefit us. Like the life we have doesn't benefit us. So obviously it can't stay the same. But the process of change from the very beginning, it's uncomfortable.
00:30:06
Speaker
So we have to go past that and trust that. Some of the first steps when we are in that deep into that discomfort, some of the first steps is realizing who we are talking to ourselves, talking, maybe trying to find like support from the people around us or trying to find the reasons. And by looking at the reasons, we very often find the answers.
00:30:32
Speaker
And when we get to trying to find a support from others, then we do get a support. And with small steps, it's like the puzzles get to the stage where we must be, the healthier stage.
Expressing Emotions and Seeking Help
00:30:49
Speaker
And we have to trust the process. I was taught something recently, actually, which is, you mentioned it, but the importance of other people. I was taught, ask for help?
00:31:00
Speaker
As in... That sounds very dramatic, but like, you know, be comfortable to sometimes ask another human being, you know, friend for support. mean, we might be really uncomfortable with that concept. We are so conditioned sometimes that we we're just scared to talk, especially scared to talk about emotions.
00:31:28
Speaker
But as more as we learn to express ourselves and to show to the other people how we feel and what we feel, obviously we have to know exactly what we feel and how we feel um to avoid any confusions. But expressing our emotions is, is It's just even sometimes saying it out loud.
00:31:53
Speaker
it's It's so comforting just to say it out, to get it out of your system, just to say it out loud. Someone I spoke to actually had an anxiety attack and she started doing something where she was she started telling herself how she's feeling in that moment and that stopped. It helps a lot. Yes, journaling, even...
00:32:16
Speaker
talking to a friend or somebody or like you're the person you have mentioned talking to herself about it just to say it out loud to hear it because even when you talk to another person when you're saying it out loud you're hearing yourself sometimes when we are thinking we're not hearing our thoughts and and So there by saying it out loud to hearing what you're saying, you're like, oh, you might be like, I just found my by myself the solution for this problem. Or when you say things out loud, they don't seem as scary anymore. So like if I have an anxiety loop, I might say, I'm stressing out about this, I'm stressing out about this. And i'm like, when you say it, it's like, why?
00:33:05
Speaker
This isn't, and I also do this thing, will all my life end from this now? And if it's not that, then it's not dramatic. Yes, you can minimize that. That is another way as well.
00:33:20
Speaker
i mean, you can recover. You can minimize it, just don't suppress it. Exactly. It's just like you have to get it out from your system. Don't suppress it because the problems happen when we try to suppress things, when we try to suppress emotions, stress, and and that's what leads to anxiety. Suppression is like the ultimate killer.
00:33:42
Speaker
But that was like always a a fascinating thought when you have something, when you have this thought that's like kind of destroying your life because it's it's stopping you from doing everything else that you you should be doing. And then you say it out loud and you're like, oh, is that it?
00:33:58
Speaker
Really? Okay. You know, sometimes it could be something like tiny. I sometimes get, you know, it's such a bad... You could be your own healer. Yes, absolutely. I know.
00:34:10
Speaker
But then sometimes we do need to actively go out and change things. And it can' you can't be lazy about that. No, yeah we we need to maintain um not only our body physically, but our um um mind, emotional state absolutely at all time in a great condition if we don't want to end up in a state of um like apathy or a state of um physical problems if we abound on our body. When you truly reconnect with yourself,
00:34:43
Speaker
then you take care of all that. You take care of your body, of your mind and your emotions. It's it's just as because you're not, you you you start to care about things in general and you start to um understand what's good for your body, like what's your diet should be, what makes you feel what you have to stop in order not to poison your body anymore or you know, not to do certain things excessively, and that to put your body in some kind of stress, physical stress.
00:35:19
Speaker
um And it's the same with your mind. You just learn and you actually know, um that you shouldn't be doing certain things because they can get you to a stage where it's not safe.
00:35:33
Speaker
Reconnecting to yourself is the ultimate way for the perfect balance you need to be. And we need to have a certain discipline as well.
00:35:46
Speaker
Like a certain discipline. Reconnecting, yes, that's great, but we need to have a discipline to maintain that all the time. Discipline in terms of meditation, breath work, walks. um If it's in nature, it's best um finding things that we enjoy to make us happy. Actually, I did a video about it. Like at the Japanese, they have this, um they use the word ikigai, it's a state of mind when you find beauty in everything.
00:36:20
Speaker
So as we reconnect to ourself, it's just we see that the the world in a different, way We find beauty in everything, in them a little flower and that is just blossoming. my so what there's In your little and dog, in the book you just bought. or in the smile of, like, for instance, for my child, he's my icky guy.
00:36:49
Speaker
he He's got a beautiful smile. and Or in the lovely gift that you gave. Yeah. Yes, just happiness in in something or it's like, it and that becomes a state of being. so it's a natural state of being that makes you happy, makes you energized, gives you motivation, makes you, you know, the ultimate happy person.
00:37:16
Speaker
But it's so important because actually as human beings, we place so much more importance on anything negative that happens, even if it's a small thing. Oh, like my train is delayed. So what? like you know The weather is lovely. or something else that's happening that's positive goes in the back of you know the mind because a small negative thing takes time.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah. Precedents. Especially in the life we live here in London. It's so dynamic and it's so stressful. Just the daily stimulations.
00:37:48
Speaker
It's a lot of noise. Like noise, yes. Lights. A lot of people talking at the same time. moving fast, whether it's a transport or something, ah running constantly for a meeting or appointment and ah checking our time. So this is a stimulation that is um is a way above our limits.
00:38:15
Speaker
And it's ah really, really important for every person living in this kind of environment. Yeah. to find the right way, to find the the thing that or the activity or the person that can take us back to calmer state of mind.
00:38:37
Speaker
Because overstimulating our nervous system is just not the right, not the healthier way to run your life. And there must be and there there must be something existing in our life to bring us back to the normal state where we're supposed to be.
00:38:56
Speaker
Whether it's a little few minutes escape or it's something that makes us happy, something we go back to that makes us happy or...
00:39:08
Speaker
Even if it's a half an hour or or an hour of distress on the end of the night, on the end of the day, ah journaling as well, that helps a lot because it's like we put our thoughts, our day, our stress in there, in the words, and And we close the book
Daily Practices for Balance and Well-being
00:39:32
Speaker
and that's it. And it stays there Next day, we are fine. and We don't have that.
00:39:37
Speaker
So that stress is a away it's a new day and it's a beautiful day. I want to ask, I think that's a good way to end as well. What's one simple practice that someone can do daily to stay grounded with their body?
00:39:55
Speaker
Breath work or meditation at the I think that one of some of the most successful ways to get back to yourself and to release that pressure and to open your mind and just to yes, to get to that state where we need to be.
00:40:15
Speaker
There is a, yes, there is a lot of, you can find a lot of um YouTube or her videos about proper breath work. and can just help you to elevate your mind, can help you to get back to yourself, and can help you to sort of see life in a much better way by calming you down and getting those like a stress levels down. So that I think those are some of them and And another thing that I really enjoy, obviously not in the cold winter, but that's the walk in a forest or a park. If you have a beautiful forest, it gives you that sense of escaping from from the busy life, from the everyday. And just like listening to the birds, listening to the sound of the the trees and the wind, listening to even
00:41:13
Speaker
the The little brunch that cracks under your shoes. We should organize a day outside of London to go in nature and listen to the birds.
00:41:25
Speaker
Like a spiritual. I do that almost daily, but yes, we should do that. But with a group, right? Yes, we can we can do something like that. When you're in a group, things, because it's collective energy, things are even more powerful.
00:41:37
Speaker
Yes, that's true. Maybe we'll realize something like that. Absolutely. This is an impulse. or maybe's like oh it's not an impulse. It's your intuition. Exactly. Thank you so much. Thank This was such a lovely conversation. Absolutely.