Transcript
Speaker: My guest today is The Wong Janice, a cello player who blends classical music and meditation. And welcome to London. You're based in Amsterdam, but I don't know how it worked out. I'll call it serendipity that you ended up being in London this weekend and we managed to have an in-person recording. So tell me more. What are you doing in London?
Speaker: Hey Eva, thanks for having me. First of all, happy to be in London. I was here yesterday actually for London Climate Action Week and I was presenting my work as part of a series of artists who collaborate with nature and through the organization Earth Percent we funnel our royalties to the organization Sounds Right initiative and they ah pass the funds onto nature conservation projects around the world. So it's really so great for me to know that my music is not just being used for meditation, for example, but the wider purpose of helping the earth and nature. just takes my music to another level.
Speaker: what was your journey like? Because I discovered you on Inside Timer, which is an app I absolutely love. I was doing meditation and I discovered your cello meditation. And I was doing it every morning. And it's this peaceful, peaceful meditation. And I was doing your gratitude cello meditation.
Speaker: And then I had just messaged you. And I wanted to find out now more about journey. Where did you start from? how and why did you transition to meditations and yeah more about that oh it's uh quite a long story I'll try just like that a little yeah if you need to ask more questions along the way just feel free but I've been a classical cello player since very young so since I was eight years old and I think from the first 10 years it was mainly classical just solo classical music orchestral music and then I wanted to play pop music because my Actual first love is pop music. So I started to learn how to improvise and joining bands and just having fun playing more contemporary music because classical music seemed to me very rigid and the rehearsal time is just so immense.
Speaker: just practicing and practicing for hours and hours by yourself in a room. Actually, I didn't choose to go to the conservatory. I decided to study a business and humanities degrees at university, but I always kept on doing cello on the side and i just couldn't give it up. It was just my biggest passion to play in bands and everything. And following the degrees, I...
Speaker: I started a corporate career actually but in marketing and that's what brought me to Amsterdam. So where I'm based now, I studied a master's program in digital media in Amsterdam and then started working in in social media, digital marketing. And I was working in social media before social media was even a thing. So our main platform was Twitter. And then I got the amazing opportunity to collaborate with Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez through the brand that I was working with and just
Speaker: ah chat all day to the be believers and selenators so and to create competitions and everything so it was such a great job and it made me let me travel around the world and I think eventually I realized I wanted to be closer to music and that particular brand was a sports brand so I Had ah the stars were aligning and i had the unfortunate end to that job. And I had the opportunity to think about what I wanted to do next. So then I decided to study sound engineering and music production.
Speaker: And my dream was to become a music producer and to make music for advertisements. But in the end, I just had to follow, i think what I've been called to do, and that was to make cello music. And I think during the time of the transition, when I was transitioning out of the job, it was also a very difficult part of my life. um Also, my relationship was also breaking down. So I found meditation as a way to get through these difficult times.
Speaker: And so after i finished the course and the paths of a music producer didn't really work out for me, i just decided I wanted to make solo cello music for meditation.
Speaker: And that's how I decided to combine it. I just thought about something that we talked about before, because you've had so many transitions and it's wonderful because it it is super inspiring though, because, ah you know, sometimes you might start something and you think you have to continue in that field and that's it. You know, you can't, you can't have other things.
Speaker: And I wanted to talk about the process of creating your life, life design. It's something we talked about previously. Because you've had such a wonderful, rich journey with so many different paths and experiences.
Speaker: So what was that? you know How did you navigate your inner voice and your intuition, how did you become acquainted with that to see like where you want to go next and what path to trust and which one to say goodbye to?
Speaker: It's all a about trial and error, I think, but also to really honour your path. And i think that was important for me because after I finished the study, I wasn't directly thinking, oh, I should become a cellist. I never believed I could be a solo artist with a cello. It wasn't something I dreamed of, but I always dreamed of when I was little to be working at a record label. As I said, my first love was pop music. So I followed the idea that I wanted to be closer to music
Speaker: And that was really the stepping stone to what brought me to being a full-time artist. And the thing is, I didn't, like I said, I didn't know that I wanted to be an artist, but it fell into my lap after all the other doors were closing So it was like trial and error as well. And also a friend told me about this book called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. I see it on the table. Yeah, I brought it. And actually, this is a gift to you as well. I brought it for you. was just telling you how much I want to read this because you were so inspired by that.
Speaker: Exactly. So that's why I got it for you. But I wanted to read... A paragraph from it. And this was the kind of defining paragraph that made me understood that I needed to be an artist and not work at a record label.
Speaker: It's a little bit about um shadows, shadow work. And so it's about artists love other artists, but shadow artists are gravitating to their rightful tribe but cannot yet claim their birthright.
Speaker: Shadow artists often choose shadow careers. Those close to the desired art, even parallel to it, but not the art itself.
Speaker: Noting their venom, Francois Truffaut contended that critics were themselves blocked directors, as he had been when he was a critic.
Speaker: He may be right. Intended fiction writers often go into newspapering or advertising. Then I realized I can't work in a music business.
Speaker: And I also, um after my study at the music production, the sound engineering course, I worked in a studio as a recording engineer, And I realized I didn't want to be on that side of the the window. i didn't want to be recording the artist. I wanted to be on the other side.
Speaker: So again, i had a few kind of moments that I noticed it's not fulfilling enough for me. It's incredible though, because sometimes you get like a little something.
Speaker: that you have to be open to, like a sign, right? People say, oh, you know, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this so much. And then, well, are you listening to what's happening? Are you listening to, you know, the universe, right? Are you listening to the signs I'm giving you?
Speaker: Are you noticing them? You have to be open and adjust your actions in life based off the signs you get. And that's the only way if you know if you're on the right path or not.
Speaker: It's really hard because there's also a moment where, for example, I really wanted to work at a music agency to make music for ads. And I tried to do some projects at home for my portfolio so I could apply for these jobs. And I did apply for one job and I didn't even get an interview, even though I had studied for one year.
Speaker: And that was really heartbreaking. But what I'm saying is, I could have kept on going. I could have said, well, actually now I need to study composition or now I need to up my ah music production skills and kept on going. But I decided to just close that door. So it's also a tough decision to know when you're closing the door because you think something's too hard or whether that's actually because you're closing the door because that path wasn't right.
Speaker: Yeah, right? Sometimes it might be, oh, I've done then just enough and you you know you like you're so passionate about something. And then i had this thing with acting as well because I really wanted to be an actress and I haven't really acted...
Speaker: in anything for maybe a year and then I kind of transitioned into something but it was like my entire life I wanted to be an actress right and it's like I don't think this feels like what I want to do anymore and there's this sense of am I giving up on my dream right Am I giving up on my dream? Yeah, it's crazy. I also, um there was another book, I think it was also called Life Design or something about designing your life. But one of the examples is a woman, I think she was a lawyer and she had dreamed of opening a bakery. She ends up opening a bakery and then realizes it's not the thing for her because you're stuck in the bakery, you have early mornings, it's your own business and all of these other things that yeah and just like her dream shattered.
Speaker: I do say this to people sometimes. When you want something, you have to be very aware of what the reality of that dream will look like. Because, you know, for me, acting is like, you know, you have to, you know, work long days, do long days, have early mornings.
Speaker: You have to love the reality of of your dream because just the dream, you know, it's not the realistic version of it. The reality, like, do you actually love the reality of it? I don't think we will know what the reality entails. You know, sometimes you start living it and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah oh, actually, I don't like it. Like, you know, I have to be here early in the morning.
Speaker: But that's the only way to know something. I feel like that's the only way to know whether something is your right path. Because when it is, you accept the reality of it.
Speaker: And you want it. and Because that's that's your love and that's your path and that's your real dream. The reality of it. I love that. And yeah, it just reminded me that what you said was when you started to edit your podcast episodes, like the reality of being a podcaster. I remember it took, I think I might have told you that how it took me maybe a month to start even learning how to edit my first video episode.
Speaker: And then actually now I wouldn't even give it to anyone else to edit it because I get so fussed. Me? I'm like... No, but it's this phase. And i i was i was doing an edit actually last week and I discovered a new feature.
Speaker: And I was like, oh my God, I think it's easier with everything you do in life. It's easier to enjoy the process when you're not. obsessing with a result yeah i i know some friends who are recording their own meditations and they get so stuck on the edit that then they end up not releasing it exactly that's the thing if you're focusing on like something you want as a result like a future version of what your dream will look like, or even what the episode in your head should look like. That's not, it's never going to work out for you because the reality the reality of it, right? The reality of it is different. Talking about that, you know, and going and doing things and working on our
Speaker: Projects and passions. How do you deal with blockages? Well, after you read The Artist's Way, you will learn many techniques to unblock. But one of them is to, Julia Cameron mentions the morning pages. So it's 10 minutes of free writing, just 10 minutes without any aim.
Speaker: so it's just one way of... Emotions? Free writing, anything. Anything you want to write about. yeah. That's definitely one way. When I'm personally blocked in in my music, if I can't seem to come up with a new concept,
Speaker: I like the concept of playing around. So love that four years ago when I was looking for a new way to compose my music, I bought a new looping machine and i didn't really know how to use it. It wasn't like the other looping machine that I had.
Speaker: And so that was so beautiful. I just pressed the record and started it playing around and it turned out to be... one of my albums.
Speaker: I recorded three pieces. I can't remember if it was in in three days or I did them all in a row. I don't remember anymore but I just like literally record and play and without any filter just go ahead. So I've done that a few times. I bought also recently an electronic synth And I don't know how to use that. It's not a cello. It has golden buttons and I have no idea what I'm pressing. And then pairing it with another effect pedal, it just comes up with crazy stuff. And I really love that. It's just the concept of...
Speaker: playing and not trying to force something that you've done before or a certain result like it's really freeing and that's the philosophy of my music anyway just to be free not only me when I play and record but also for the listener not to be attached to the results of the music or i I should feel this or I have to client close my eyes or I have to journal. Like it's just be free, just do what you like.
Speaker: And then you will just be open to the result. Actually, that's one of the reasons I really felt connected to your meditation in the music. And when we talked first, you mentioned something about the cello.
Speaker: being really close to the human voice, which is why we as human beings really love the sound of it. And in general, classical music has that effect. When you listen to it, it soothes the brain. And there is a reason, well, a few reasons. One of the reasons was that it's lower frequency,
Speaker: Because it's lower frequency, it feels very grounding and it activates less of the brain's alert response. So you feel safer and you're not in like, you know, fight or flight. And you can feel that when you listen to classical music. And another thing, it's a very interesting word actually read about this. It's called entrainment.
Speaker: it's like a new word that i know now it's when your nervous system you're breathing like everything just begins to align with the i think it's the frequencies of the music because let's say you're it's 60 to 80 and then you're stressed out and your heart is like and when you listen to that your heart rate aligns with the frequency of the music.
Speaker: So basically it's almost like it's healthier for the body to listen to classical music as well, which is wonderful. And which is why really like doing your and meditations in the morning. Actually, the first album that I made, the concept was to have a low grounding drone. So just a low tone for the kind of soul to hook on as a foundation, a stable base. And the melodies, uh, were mainly composed to a 60 beat per minute.
Speaker: ah So I had a click track when I, um, um, recorded the pieces. So i did that on purpose because if I, if I recorded to a faster,
Speaker: beat per minute, then it's like running. You can't listen to my music when you're running. so i've I've had feedback. yeah It's a different kind of heart rate you want.
Speaker: My music immediately when you listen, it helps slow your heart rate because it is composed to a slower beat. And now I don't really record with a click track, but The idea is that there's no beat at all.
Speaker: It's just waves of sound and textures. And I don't really want people to be so focused on the specific notes that I'm playing or the chord changes. And usually I don't have any chord changes. I just like keep it at one.
Speaker: but Because I don't want people to analyze my music. And so that's why I use a lot of different effect pedals and looping machines. so So people just, oh, I hear something. I don't really know how she does that, but that's fine. it feels very peaceful and very soothing, which is deep you know the important thing for for the brain, for the body, for the nervous system. I just released ah my own app is called Cello Rituals.
Speaker: And it's based on the concept that to spend time with yourself every day it's important. You need to carve out time to meditate or to journal or whatever practice it is.
Speaker: So if you're drawn to my music, then I've created like a six part program per day. The first one is a message from me.
Speaker: And then there's different lengths. So there's a three to 10 minute short reset. Then there's a guided journaling process. a prompt, which you don't need to journal, but it's an optional thing, but at least to ponder on. There's then and longer piece, maybe up to 30 minutes or an evening piece, 60 minutes. And then there's a nightly gratitude. And it's not, you're not meant to do all of them, but it's more like choose the routine,
Speaker: that you feel that you can manage per day. But the most important thing is to keep that consistency because I personally do the nightly gratitude every single day and somehow It helps me.
Speaker: makes me zoom out and remember my day to appreciate the small things, to remember the challenges, but maybe i ended the tap the day calmly. It's just a moment for you to come to yourself. And also i curate every day for the user, so you don't have to choose. And I think that's the problem with a lot of apps right now, like YouTube, Spotify, Netflix, you're constantly...
Speaker: overwhelmed with choice and then you don't you might not end up listening to anything because you end up scrolling and you can't find something so before you start the app like you answer some questions and it designs a program for you so you might say oh i'm interested in chakras so the first say month will be or first week I don't know but it will design a week of chakra content for you the journaling prompts and also the
Speaker: each of the long, like the pieces. And i have a concept of moon phases. So you say, oh, I really love moon phases. So let's choose like a whole month of just moon phase content. And that's more about manifestation or like with the full moon, just letting like embracing everything that you've achieved at the peak of the cycle and then letting it all go.
Speaker: So I have quite a few different ways you can work with the app and you can just message the coach to customize the program. And that's the beauty of it. It's not it's not that I've programmed everything for two years.
Speaker: it's It's up to the user to interact with the app and then the app customizes to your preferences. the way we live our lives is what creates our lives in the future and the future versions.
Speaker: And if you you, know, if you wake up and you like watch the news or start scrolling instead of, you know, journaling, and then if you, before bed, you do something completely different, like think, oh, what's the worst thing that happened today? Like this, this will be your routine if you don't,
Speaker: if if you don't have the opposite routine. so you have a routine anyway. It might not be like something very big, but you might have a routine in the way you think. the way you wake up and before you go to bed, you might have that, you might not even think about it because it's not something big. It's not like I go to the shop every day. It's like a mental routine.
Speaker: And it's very important to be aware of what we tell ourselves, how we speak to ourselves, what we, you know, what we, ingest every morning you know first thing yeah it's like do you want to read the news is that the first it' like is that the first thing you want to read in the morning or the last thing you want to read at night yeah or see a social media post or anything like that rather than you know like I notice if I wake up and I'm just looking outside doesn't even matter what's outside it's more so you're focusing on the present moment right
Speaker: And you're just there rather than immediately going somewhere else and not being present with yourself anymore. And you mentioned something here, the process of you know manifesting and visualization, which is something I really wanted to talk about with you because we had this wonderful conversation before.
Speaker: Let's talk about visualization. How do you visualize? And I'm going to start here because when we talked on the phone, I i was saying how, you know, visualization for me and from the thing that really
Speaker: aligns when I hear it, right? Because I think different things work for different people was to actually, you know, see yourself in that version of you that you want to be and feel the emotions.
Speaker: And I think I was telling you when we talked about that, you have to do it to an extent that feels plausible, right? So let's say you want to get married.
Speaker: If you imagine your wedding, that might be a bit much, like might not be, might be. So you have to... create that moment that feels 100% reasonable and plausible. So I think I was telling you was washing... i wasn't really washing dishes. It's not like I was washing dishes. i i don't really cook. I don't really use the kitchen. But kitchen is like my favorite space in the house.
Speaker: So every time we do a visualization of a moment in the future, like a specific scenario it will be in this beautiful kitchen and it's because i don't know for someone who doesn't cook I don't know why but kitchen it's like my favorite thing and I might be like washing a mug you know I'm not really washing dishes but I'm there in the kitchen and it's feels plausible and I'm a very visual person so I'll see myself in my body from that and sometimes it will get a bit
Speaker: crazy almost because I'll feel like I'm there and almost like oh and but I'm there but also also here you know it can get quite quiet um because when you believe that moment that your visualization you feel the feelings and yeah so for me that's the visualization that works rather than you know like I want this but I don't really feel yeah I think I watched a video once it was about People who really want to win the lottery, I think it was about, something like that. And that i think the title of the video was people who want to win the lottery are always going to be poor or something along those lines. But I think it has something to do with what you're saying because if they are really hoping for something so rare and a miracle to happen, it's like too far away. It's like they're waiting for a savior almost. Yeah.
Speaker: They're waiting for something to save them, but they don't have any concrete plan or or real sense of I can win that thing.
Speaker: They want it Of course they want it. that's that's We all want things. We all want that. But like you said, it's not... It's not that plausible. I mean, I know people who have won things in the in in games and lotteries as well. So it it is possible. I won a Dalmatian once.
Speaker: A personal Dalmatian. I'm sure you manifested that one. I was like, oh, I won a personal Dalmatian.
Speaker: It's about making steps. I think that's the most important thing. No matter what the goal is, even if it's totally... not plausible in your current present life.
Speaker: It's about making steps towards that thing. And that's, that's something that I talk about all the time in my work and in my life as well. For example, my dream was to have, um, and music studio in an attic space in Amsterdam, because there are so many beautiful attic spaces in, in Amsterdam, um, just the old houses and everything.
Speaker: And I even started to collect pictures from the real estate ah app. Just collecting. It's like a... it Yeah, it's like a... It's a vision board.
Speaker: So just collecting, just collecting. i always had that on the prize, like money on the prize. And every new moon, I would write that as well.
Speaker: I mean, it didn't come overnight, but i I still have the diary entry where I wrote that. I wanted... an attic space for my music studio and few years, like many years later, well, finally I have that like dream music studio in the attic.
Speaker: I love that. And also that's the thing. I don't think we necessarily know what the best path for us is. I'm only saying this because you said it didn't happen immediately.
Speaker: Because I don't think it's always supposed to happen immediately. Like we have, you know, we have our journey, we have to... go on and the problem is we we want something or we we think we want something but we need to go through different experiences different transformations until that becomes possible right so and and also that's the whole point the process right changing living life which is why also being in the present is so important because you we can't just want something and like i'll only be happy oh that's that's that's another very interesting thing you can't just say i'll only be happy then because then first of all you'll never be happy i saw this post on instagram from someone i follow
Speaker: Because she, i guess she reached the point where she was, she'd reached a point of success where it's like, but you know, why am I not happy then? Because you work so much, right? There's so much work involved. There's so much, so much of everything. And then you get to that stage, which you thought would be the ending point, maybe.
Speaker: And then you're like, but I feel a bit weird now because I've accomplished this thing and I don't know what's next. And I feel a bit like deflated because there's no end point.
Speaker: And some, we we love having an end point, right? Actually, there isn't one. It's all a process. So sometimes, even myself, I've i've had to become so uncomfortable, not so uncomfortable. We think it's just changing and shifting and changing shape and
Speaker: Because you just don't know. You have to have so much trust. This year, 2026, has all been about transform transformations, letting go of things, like like never before in my life.
Speaker: That's amazing, because then you create a clean slate almost to receive... Anything else that's coming on your path? Clean slate is a painful thing.
Speaker: Right? Because you have to kill everything that was there before for that clean slate to be there. To wash away the path. That's right.
Speaker: It's liberating, I guess, in the positive sense. When you let go of things, which is difficult. Of course. But you've had so many transformations as well, right? How do you let go of things? How do you deal with change?
Speaker: I'm a person who can loop for years and years and not really let go. So it's a difficult question for me. I think, yeah, I think what you're saying is that there is this trust. And so even if it's scary, like the most difficult choices in my life have been very scary because you have to let go and choose a new direction. But I think my sense of,
Speaker: will to get to that next stage is so big that I i will go through anything to to get there. And it's, yeah, it's super painful, but so rewarding because you don't get stuck in that old thing. yeah Also in terms of relationship or work or every single thing, it relates to every single thing.
Speaker: You can't experience the the new thing if you haven't like let go of the other thing. Oh, and I think it was another book. Or was it this book?
Speaker: But basically it was saying exactly that. ah you have to cut ties with the old thing. Otherwise, if you still have it as a fallback, you're never going to. So there's this thing how about fallback that it works for some people. It doesn't work for me.
Speaker: It's never worked for me. So I used to work in retail for four and a half years and it was the safety net. I was so comfortable and we know, you know, comfort is not a good thing. And i was like, I want to, you know, try to do a bit of acting or modeling. At the time I wanted to do modeling as a way to get into acting easier, which I thought, you know, just, it was my process of thinking.
Speaker: And then I wasn't getting anywhere and nothing thought was happening. Then at one point I said, I don't know, I have this feeling that while ah I'm having this safe, safe job, I'm not going to get any opportunities.
Speaker: And I'd get a casting and then I'd have to take time time off work and it wasn't working out. I remember this one time my friend was like, no, you can't, you have to come to work. And it was just so dramatic, right? And then at one point I was like, well, guess I have to quit, right? No fallback, nothing, nothing.
Speaker: And that's the only time that I actually started get started getting opportunities. Yeah, I think you own thing yeah you've hit on something so important that I think then if you have that fallback, you're not having the right energy.
Speaker: Yeah. And then what you were saying, once you cut it off, you had a different energy. And that's why like the universe was then saying, okay, she's ready now to receive. I remember, so I quit the job and then maybe i started doing part-time, but not the same thing. Occasionally do something part-time.
Speaker: It was a different form of safety net. So i I started getting a few opportunities, but not too many because I still had some sort of safety net. And then I was like, I don't think I'm allowed a safety to net.
Speaker: I don't think so. I think universe is telling me no. And then I just stopped doing any of those things. And talking about the energy, it wasn't like, oh my gosh, I need this so much now because I don't have anything. It was more so, this means that things will start happening.
Speaker: There's more like it's a trust thing, right? It's so a contract. Okay, I could that. Okay, can I get that? And it's it's the only way thingss things happen for me when I just... no No safety net. I know some people, the way their mindset and their belief system works, they can't operate without a so safety net.
Speaker: I don't know. It just doesn't work for me. I think there is something about closing doors. It's not possible for everybody, of course. I mean, there's also the financial, ah question, like if you haven't made a buffer for yourself, then you can't just like drop everything. So obviously it changes per circumstance, but for example, in my, um, work as an artist, I,
Speaker: In the beginning, i did other types of work as well. So I did session, i played in other people's albums or played in different bands. I did ah commissioned works and other types of collaborations. But a few years on, I was like, I want to focus a hundred percent on my solo music because I need the most time that I can get.
Speaker: And so I just started to say no to things. No, no, no, no. And every year I was dropping another type of income to then just focus a hundred percent on my own thing and It's not the case that suddenly i had like in income pouring in for um ah from my solo music, but the fact is i don't regret giving myself that full but like yeah opportunity to just focus on that. Like I don't, I don't need to, like what you said, it was like desperation of like, oh, I'm losing that income or I'm Like I need to trust. um
Speaker: And that's why I've been building my own platform and releasing the app because it's something that I always knew that was on my path from a few years ago. But I had a few different stop and start moments because it wasn't the right platform. um I invested in a coaching program, which I actually stopped. I didn't think it was the right one for me. i invested in another um teach like a platform to release my courses and I didn't launch it so it's been tough but i believe that the platform like owning a platform is for me like one extra income path for me and that was really important for me to go for it we mentioned a few things there and in general in terms of the conversation and something we talked about before
Speaker: that I'd love to go into a bit deeper, the new wave of spirituality. Because, you know, we were talking about, you know, visualizing, manifesting, like, you know, safety nets, etc. I feel like everyone at the moment, and it's a wonderful thing, people's um every everyone at the moment, people are aware of the concept of growth, changing, you know, it's everywhere you look.
Speaker: Or is it just because we're in that, like, you know, surrounding circle? I don't know. But I feel even on social media, it's it's happening a lot and it's a wonderful thing. And I feel like one of the reasons it's happening that people so awake is because there is a lot of information and also you're seeing other people's lives and you're finding out you know when someone has an insight they immediately share it with the world and then you find out about that so then you see that way of living you see the possibility of that there's just so much openness right now
Speaker: It has a positive and a negative connotation to that. Definitely. i think the problem, yeah, like you said, there's so much access to other people's lives and that I think has made a lot of people, it's a bit of ah like a FOMO or thinking, okay, there's a bit of unrest. Like I could be married and have my children and live a stable life, but then suddenly I'm looking at other people's lives and think, oh, but that's not enough what I have.
Speaker: And then there's all these, like the new wave of digital nomads or or things like that. So people are like, oh, I think I want to move to Bali as well. like There's just so many different paths out there. i think then because everyone is showing their path, then it creates a lot of unrest in in us. And then we go on this journey.
Speaker: path ourselves to find our path. And that's why there's so many, you know, courses sold and coaches and everyone's like, I tried this course and I'm doing this course to to discover myself and this other thing and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And someone, you know, a friend of mine as well, she was trying different people. It's like people want to be so aware at the moment of their own you know if they're of their own inner world and of their own machinery in a way because
Speaker: It's a fascinating concept. And I started on this journey like years ago, but only recently did I get a sense of agency, which is crazy, right?
Speaker: Bearing in mind I'm 35 years old. Only about a year ago i started being comfortable with the concept that I have power over my own life.
Speaker: Crazy. It's a bit late in life. No, i'm not an nu at all. I think our parents' generation, they don't have they didn't have choices like we do now.
Speaker: Or maybe, like I was telling you in our call, it's maybe fake choices. because And what you said at the start of this ah recording, there's...
Speaker: Yeah, there's just a lot of opportunity, but there's also the reality of it as well. So although we can go and be a life coach, like, is that so easy to just find clients? everyone need to be a life coach?
Speaker: Does everyone need to be this one thing or this other thing? And yeah, there's um actually, that's ah one of the thing about and one of the things about coaching is that
Speaker: it is kind of selling, and you you might be selling a course, how to become a coach or, know, so it's kind of in the, in the mathematics of it or in the DNA of it.
Speaker: So I guess what I'm trying to figure out now, it's how to navigate this world of, you know, how to better yourself and do this and do that because people mostly talk about the end of their journey. And then, which again, it's not a realistic thing because the journey doesn't ever end.
Speaker: So like, you're always in a process of something.
Speaker: but What the word is? Yeah, you're permanently in the process of growing and expanding and changing and experiencing life and experiencing things that happen to you.
Speaker: There's this whole wave of, like you said, courses and courses, but it's actually only selling the dream. yeah It's just people selling the dream and then, of course, they buy the course, but it's not that they are able to replicate that actual Yeah.
Speaker: I did this thing the other day, it was a workshop and again it was like buy my course and this is the discount for these 24 hours and that da better better than I'm just like it that it just does not feel authentic to me.
Speaker: I've thought so many times to create a course on how to be an independent musician and and show my success story, but I've realized, and that's one of the reasons why I haven't released the course, but I've realized that nobody can have...
Speaker: the same strategy as I do because you can't replicate someone else's success you just can't follow their blueprint they are not me that's such a good point because we all have to go through our own experiences and they're completely different experiences and you're never falling kind behind just because you haven't had someone else's experiences or reached to the point there in their lives because they're not you and they're a different person so this whole comparison thing which we do right now so much it's so unhealthy and sometimes you know they say like you know but there's positive comparison which is lovely because you know you're again it's wonderful to take inspiration from someone but there should be
Speaker: a
Speaker: Differentiation because taking inspiration and wanting to blueprint someone's life, it's not the same thing. Exactly. And everyone has such different skill sets. For example, i know a friend of mine got really big, um first of all, on Instagram and then TikTok, 2 million followers now.
Speaker: And I know how she got there, especially on Instagram. It was daily reels. It was music content. She didn't speak. And they were just so beautiful. She was out in nature. And I was like, this is what I have to do. Yeah. I went out to nature, but then I realized like recording outside, it takes a lot of different ah logistical effort, like thinking about where, bringing the recording equipment. I even had my parents come with me like in one recording session, bless them. And realizing I'm not able to pump out daily reels. Yeah.
Speaker: no And that's just the reality of me. And also another friend has said to me, oh yeah, it about this daily reels concept. And I said, I know that works, but it doesn't work for my skillset.
Speaker: I know it works because I've seen the proof, but I just can't like. There's so much of that, you know, what feels authentic for me is exactly what I'm doing right now with you, you know, recording this.
Speaker: Other things just don't feel. So you might try to do something and it's almost like you're pulling it out of yourself and it doesn't feel authentic. and There's no point doing that because you have to two things that are authentic to you because that's the only way you'll grow. That that other person that you're comparing yourself with They're on their own journey. You're not on their journey. It's also so hard. And we talk about balance and something what you said about, oh, you've learned successfully how to edit your videos over time. So it is possible, obviously, to learn. And I've grown my YouTube channel. Now I have 10,000 subscribers, which is still mini compared to, like, the wider scheme of things. And it really doesn't bring in a lot of... um
Speaker: income But I really persisted on it in the beginning. I think for two years, I released a video every month. So every week even. My goal was to learn to be comfortable with video editing. yeah And by the end of it, I really, i feel comfortable editing now.
Speaker: I mean, there's still things I don't do. I don't do any color grading. Me neither. For anyone watching, it's this color in the studio and it's this color on YouTube. That's the same color. Yeah. Because they don't do color crazy. Yeah, me too.
Speaker: And that's okay. And just to acknowledge, there is a certain path where we have to try and go through difficulties, but also accept an 80% perfection rate or not give up too soon as well. So this' there's always this balance about trying. Balance is Because, you know, talking about you know success and end of the path,
Speaker: There's never any place for balance there because you're looking at a podium that you want to be on. But balance is actually what's important in life. And it doesn't have to be a work-life balance.
Speaker: it's not It's a balance in here. Like how do you balance with yourself, but balance with your inner self, feeling good, balanced nervous system, which is why I do your meditations.
Speaker: And you have to have that balance, otherwise you're not going anywhere. That's it. I think even like during COVID, that's actually when I became very successful. And that was when I started to be able to sustain myself through my music.
Speaker: But i've I overworked. I took all the opportunities that came to me and I was so grateful to have them. But at the same time, I didn't have any balance and i I burnt my nervous system.
Speaker: I'm still actually recovering from that. I don't perform that much. And that's one of the reasons why is because it really takes so much energy out of me. I would love to perform more, but my capacity is still a bit low.
Speaker: So it's like... Going for your dream, 110%, but what's the price of that? It can be your health. And this is a bit controversial, and I talk about this maybe because it's controversial, but for me, hustling doesn't work for me as a person.
Speaker: Like me, hustling would not work. You can want things and have dreams and be inspired and not hustle. No two people are the same.
Speaker: For some people it's wonderful and like you could be super and entrepreneurial and wake up at five o'clock every morning and go to bed at 2am or something like that. I don't know. It doesn't work for me.
Speaker: and that's totally okay. But I think the most important thing about you is that you are planting seeds. the fact that you messaged me straight after you listened to a meditation and that has, that means that we're here like recording in London, which is crazy. And it doesn't matter that you're not hustling at a hundred miles an hour. It's more or that important that you keep that dream or goal. I don't want to call it dream because that sounds unattainable, but the goal or keep that passion alive and just be authentic and send those messages out.
Speaker: Keep on doing that. that's also something that I've been rewarded with as well. I mean, I've also hustled and that's brought me a lot too, but in general, just is being curious and talking to people or sending a message that's also why I'm here cur that's it you know sometimes i might be like should I do this the ai question to ask is what is stopping you is it fear if it's fear go and do it but it's true and to I'm like really enjoying this conversation but I need to ask you what do you have coming in store for you
Speaker: ah Well, right now, like I mentioned, i I have the app and it's very much early days. And I'm grateful that some ah of my most loyal, I call them the Wong family. So my Wongies have joined, have jumped on board. And I'm still slowly, slowly making tweaks, of course. It's just new and little bit... um getting used to everything. So ramping up, um, the app and also later on, I'll put more content. I'm thinking of doing more video content. I do have video courses already ready, but i still need to find a way to integrate them inside the app and also some somatic practices as well, like breathing exercises and slow and some movement.
Speaker: and Talking about routine, I personally do some qigong lymphatic flow exercises every day to make my body move. And I do feel that only listening to cello music, like that's not, that's not holistic enough. really want my app to also include some like breathing and physical practices too. So I'll be working on that coming up and what more, um, or every year, and this is something about manifestation and just believing in the stars, but I, every year since already two years, I've been, um
Speaker: sending my work to the Grammy Awards. And so I'm two years in a row, I've been in the consideration set of the, it's called the New Age, Ambient and Chant categories. So out of the consideration set, then the voting members can vote for your music and then you get nominated and then you can win, obviously.
Speaker: So I haven't reached the nomination level yet, but the fact that two years already that I've been in the consideration set is really meaningful. I mean, Honestly, right now I'm using it as a cadence and a goal just to be releasing music every year.
Speaker: And one day, knows when. You always have to strive for something. Exactly. And for me, it doesn't even really matter. But it's just quite fun. Like, I can say that I'm applying for the Grammy Awards. And you're being considered for them.
Speaker: And I'm considered. And so this year I'm working with my friend, baya and we... did a a recording last year already. So it's, it's in the final mixing stages. And so it's the first year I'm releasing a collaboration for the Grammys and that's very exciting because yes, it's always nice to do something together. Like I said, before I was even like saying no to a lot of collaborations and partner work, but actually sometimes it's nice because it's just less burdened on to do everything alone.
Speaker: I love that. Very exciting. Thank so much. I really enjoyed this conversation and thank you you. I'm so looking forward to you i'm reading the book. It is 12 weeks, so you'll have to be pretty consistent with it. i like The one thing that's super cool is the personal dates. Like it's a date with yourself. So you have to plan a day with yourself. I do that already? you're like totally in the flow of the book already. that Okay.
