Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Copy Protection
0 Playsin 7 hours
This podcast is the hard work of several working professionals. Please refer to the manual for special instructions on how to listen to it.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Theme Music
00:00:42
Speaker
All right. Okay. We're going to have to talk about this. We're going have to talk about what just happened. Yeah. mean We're not even going to introduce it. We, you and I have to talk about what just happened that I saw and the listeners obviously couldn't.
00:00:57
Speaker
True. i So Jess, would you like to, to explain what happened or would you like me to describe it? Well, Ben, I mean, I'm not even sure what you're talking about, so maybe you should start. Okay, great. ah So, ah well, so,
00:01:12
Speaker
a peek behind the curtain just to let you know like when when a theme or a tune when a theme or a tune plays like that's playing live like i'm not editing it in later uh so we hear it we have the quest quest orchestra playing yeah we have the quest quest orchestra And so, so Jess has his like streamer lights on behind him.
00:01:38
Speaker
ah Like, which are, you know, like the, are those the Govies? You got the Govies back there? I've got whatever the cheapest thing Amazon has. Those Govies. That's why said that. Yeah.
00:01:49
Speaker
So, yeah. so ah You know, usually, and we we both see each other on camera. This is not a video podcast, but we see each other on camera.
00:01:59
Speaker
um And we make faces and we we'd try to make each other break and all of that. And so usually there's a little bit of a dance break while that theme plays.
00:02:10
Speaker
ah And Jess decided to ah turn his, ah like, ah streamer color-changing LED lights behind him into, like,
00:02:21
Speaker
dance party mode and then just started like going nuts back there and we got yeah like yeah yeah what's up
00:02:33
Speaker
You know, I was like, you know, I was just feeling it. ah You felt it? i I'm feeling it. Yeah. I mean, that theme song, Ben, that theme song is immaculate. every Every week you feel a little bit more.
00:02:44
Speaker
That's right. But I mean, yeah, it's Quest Quest, the a adventure game podcast. I'm Jess. Wow. You took it all. You ate. You left
Meet the Hosts and Podcast Theme
00:02:54
Speaker
no crumbs. I ate.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yes. I'm Ben. I'm PS underscore Garrick on ah and Twitch YouTube. I'm TCAF Jedi on those places as well. How you doing, Jess? We just, you know, we were supposed to start recording like 40 minutes ago, and then we just had a very spirited conversation before it. So we're both coming into this pretty warm, coming in pretty hot.
00:03:20
Speaker
I mean, here's the thing, Ben. I did make a mistake before we began podcasting. I knew you made a mistake and I was going to chastise you live on the air about it. Oh, man. but but But you tell me what this mistake was.
00:03:35
Speaker
Well, you know, we like to talk about cookies here on Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. Yeah. Before we started recording, like just minutes, seconds before we turned on the cameras, I crammed my face with like four Fig Newtons.
00:03:54
Speaker
which big news, which are dry for podcast way to dry. I I've drank like 40 ounces of water since we started talking and I still feel parched.
Humorous Mishaps and Live Recording
00:04:09
Speaker
I'm going to have to lay out of most of this recording. You're really going to have to shoulder the burden here.
00:04:15
Speaker
Okay. Here's my question for you, Jess, which is now in and, and you could choose to plead the fourth on this. um the right to privacy what's the uh incrimination one uh the fifth the fifth all right okay well you know uh we i was i was just testing you ah professor very good and also uh also i was doing that for the benefit of our international listeners um ground hatch has to learn the u.s constitution yet
00:04:51
Speaker
who are not familiar with the beautiful bill of rights afforded to every American. um Now. Everyone. Yeah. Equally.
00:05:02
Speaker
Now, ah so I was going to plead the first. and Just say whatever you want to. that's so please, ask away. How did, in what configuration did you eat these Fig Newtons? Was it one at a time or was it ah different?
00:05:20
Speaker
It was two at a time. I had a of feeling it was two at a time. I mean, like, yes, but how? Yes. where What do you mean? But how?
00:05:31
Speaker
I mean, how do you know that? Is that standard way to eat fig Newtons? They're too dry. you don't I don't eat fig Newtons. I don't I don't care for a fig Newtons. I may have horrible, but these are generic ones too.
00:05:41
Speaker
These are, are these Aldi? They're Aldi. And like an Oreo, which we talked about extensively last episode, you can't recreate a Fig Newton unless you are, you know, Mr. Newton himself. Sir Isaac Newton, the inventor of the Fig Newton. A fig landed on his head.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah. it covereded gravity It was no figment of his imagination. It was quite real. ah I'll let that one go. I wait, hold on Let's see how What did the studio audience think?
00:06:14
Speaker
Oh, man. um
Aldi Adventures and Listener Stories
00:06:15
Speaker
may always I wish I had a soundboard that could make laugh for me. Yeah, well.
00:06:22
Speaker
if you listened If you listened to my previous podcast, that was a frequent complaint of my co-hosts that I was the only one with the access to the soundboard.
00:06:34
Speaker
and probably in your next podcast this might come up as well. Oh, yeah. No, I'm a freak with it. I, like, on the last Best Babylon 5 podcast, I was a monster with the soundboard. I was cruel ah with it.
00:06:48
Speaker
um But... On Aldi, which ah for those of you who are not familiar, is like ah like a grocery store, which is like kind of like the the budget one.
00:07:02
Speaker
um And it has a lot of their own like kind of store brands um that are like kind of cheaper. You know, they... ah see if the their store brands are like kind of a roll of the dice and some of them i think are like a b plus version which is good enough like they'll have they have plenty of stuff that is like good enough especially given like the absolute cost difference uh like uh like you know this is grocery talk um
00:07:39
Speaker
ah And they have some they have some good treats. You know, i've I've catered a party with Alti. Absolutely. They've got a lot of cheeses and meats. I was going to say, I'll get those, their little ah like lunch meats rounding a little like mozzarella stick.
00:07:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Like, I'll get that. It looks classy, and it costs, like, $6. six dollars It's packed with protein. It's packed with protein, and that's what we need. We all need protein. Yeah, mean, absolutely. I mean, if you are not getting enough protein, you're never a bulk up.
00:08:13
Speaker
i Yeah, you know, I've been thinking. I got a bulk. I need the bulk. That's why, Ben, you should try Athletic Greens, a great supplement that you can...
00:08:26
Speaker
Wait, we aren't being paid by them, are we? No, but I think what we should do is just do free advertising until one of them takes pity on us. Yes. You know. and And like gives us back pay for all the great work we've done. Yeah. um You know like, you know, if you just seem pathetic enough, ah eventually you'll get exactly what you want.
00:08:46
Speaker
um That's worked for me. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:51
Speaker
All right, Jess, pop quiz. ah All 10 of the the Bill of Rights amendments. Okay, got it. First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth.
00:09:08
Speaker
Oh, fuck. I really thought you were going to say 11 in there accidentally. Well, they leave actually they leave out for which was the inspiration for leisure suit Larry. out the fourth game yeah So the fourth amendment that you mentioned earlier actually doesn't exist.
00:09:24
Speaker
We have an email this week.
00:09:27
Speaker
It is from Todd. Hello, Todd. Has Todd sent us, is Todd? yes, Todd has a, Todd, as you may recall,
Quest for Glory Randomizer Discussion
00:09:39
Speaker
is our friend who has an iPod.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yes. Remember iPod Todd? We didn't call him iPod Todd. But now we have, at least one of us has, Ben. Do you think that Todd is called iPod Todd at his place of work?
00:10:01
Speaker
No. Unless he works at the iPod factory. Well, I don't think there is an iPod factory anymore. Yeah, not with these tariffs. Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
Wasn't there... Oh, remember that guy that, like, made up that whole one-man show, and then, like, it went on This American Life, and he had to apologize about it?
00:10:23
Speaker
Yes! Vaguely. This is, like, I don't, like, like, he went to the, like, iPod factory, and he just made up all this shit about their conditions.
00:10:34
Speaker
wait Yes. Yes. are probably not great. Like, arere probably abhorrent. You don't need to make it up. That's the, that's the, yeah. But this guy, Todd said, hi hey hey Quest Questarinos.
00:10:48
Speaker
i was curious if either of you have messed around with Reynolds. A wonderful Quest for Glory randomizer. Since Spielberg is like a second home to me, think the randomizer is my preferred way to play now.
00:11:05
Speaker
The updates to customize the play experience have made it even better. Maybe that would be a good way to mix them up on your next stream. We have said that we are going to return to it. Also was curious if you think any other adventure game randomizer would work.
00:11:19
Speaker
KQ1 might come close to workable, but might be a little ah might still be a little short. Thanks, Todd, a.k.a. Average Goon. P.S. underscore Baron. the listener who wanted a co-op game, well, calling it an adventure game would be a stretch.
00:11:38
Speaker
I highly recommend Spiritfarer. It's a narrative driven. it's narrative driven, has zero combat and has lovely music and a great story that may hit hard you've dealt with grief or aging parents.
00:11:53
Speaker
There's crafting and some platforming, but nothing challenging. I loved it solo and I know it has co-op. well thank you i have not uh i have not played it wasn't spirit fairer on um game pass for a while i don't know if it still is um i have no idea yeah i've never heard it seem recall seeing on uh game pass anyway um i have not played uh that but uh the randomizer i've never played it have you
00:12:26
Speaker
I've watched some speed runners play around with it a little bit, but i've never played it myself. So I'm familiar with sort of what it does in terms of, you know, swapping things around a little bit. But I'm fascinated by the randomizer concept. Like I think probably the game that I'm most familiar with is like Legend of Zelda randomizers. Do you want to explain what the the randomizer does um ah for for anyone listening?
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, because again, I only kind of know about this second hand. You know, it moves around the location of some key items and some things like that, right? Isn't that the main thrust of it? Yeah, I'm reading it. It's on GitHub. It's on GitHub as QFG1 randomizer.
00:13:08
Speaker
it's i ah gitubab as ah
00:13:12
Speaker
q fg dash one or q f g one randomizer And this program will randomize the location of most items in Quest for Lory 1 EGA.
00:13:24
Speaker
It accomplishes this by generating script slash text patch files that the game will load instead of the default resources. As a result, the original game files are not modified, so it's easy to restore the game to its original state.
00:13:38
Speaker
Only the EGA version is currently... uh, uh, supported. Sorry, VGA fans. Also, you must be running a version 1.2, uh, the version that you would have bought on steamer GOG.
00:13:51
Speaker
So if you work on, uh, if you play the, uh, heroes quest version, um, But yeah, ah so like, yeah, it jumbles some stuff around. I've never played it. I've been very ah Quest for Glory 1 randomizer curious for the same reason as iPod Todd is saying. Yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker
uh uh i hope that isn't mean i'm like i i you know i just heard like a cadence and it's fun um but uh like i'm a vga like a quest for glory one vga guy and so like spielberg is like a second home like And I think that's ah a lot of what we talked about when we played when we we talked about it in our earlier podcast on ah on Quest for Glory one.
00:14:44
Speaker
um And I know Quest for Glory one back to front, ah but only the VGA version.
Randomizers in Adventure Games
00:14:51
Speaker
I've actually not spent a lot of time with the EGA version, which I probably should like, i if that's what I'm going to play when I play it. Uh, like when we do revisit it for the the stream and, you know, maybe it will kind of be like ah a brand new experience or like kind of a different one.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah. But, uh, I, you know, Jess, I think that might be fun for you when you stream it. Like it could be because the ETA version is my version of quest for glory one. Right. So I'm very at home there yeah already.
00:15:27
Speaker
I'm looking at this. Apparently it like randomizes up to 71 item locations. Yeah. like yeah There can be anything in the bird's nest in front of the healer's hut. Baba Yaga could be up there.
00:15:38
Speaker
Flying water could be up there somehow. Finding the healer's ring, which is like the first thing I do when I play Quest for Glory 1 because it gets you some money, kind of gets you started. She gives you some healing potions too.
00:15:53
Speaker
It also feels like a very level one quest yeah in a campaign. Like doing that um like doing that And then, ah like, um i you know, that would, ah you know, i like, you know, that would really make the game really interesting. It just gives you something extra to kind of explore. And like, because, you know, that's something I've always kind of wanted with Quest for Glory 1 is I want a reason to...
00:16:28
Speaker
make it a little fresh i i would love it if there was like dlc of quest for glory one like here's a second sierra working on that yeah could somebody call up uh ken and ask him yeah somebody send like a flare up so he can see it from his yacht and yeah but I'm sure to make a pick up a phone call.
00:16:51
Speaker
So yeah, like I'd be really interested. i think that might be fun when you play it. Like, you know, I not try that, you know, yeah it might be, it might be fun. You know, I'm curious how breakable it is. Like, is it possible that like i pull down what you get a mirror at the end of the game to use against Bobby Yaga? Like what if that mirror is in the bird's nest? Can just go kill Bobby Yaga immediately?
00:17:12
Speaker
That'd be pretty interesting. um Yeah. Yeah. Or does that break the game at that point? Like, I wonder if it is somewhat like proofed against like,
00:17:22
Speaker
unwinnable situations or you've just broken the flow of the game completely have no idea this is what i may ben we we should probably ask uh because we definitely have people in our discord that have the answers oh yeah that's right and i think i might try i might try the randomizer i think todd has a good suggestion there yeah um and then and then todd's second uh second question there which is what games what other games would be fun with a randomizer i think he's on to the right on the right path with King's quest one, because it's like, I think with treasure hunt games, like King's quest one, like because King's quest one is this big, you know, like it's not huge, but it's essentially an open world.
00:18:08
Speaker
ah with some freedom to solve puzzles in the order you prefer. Right. And so, Like King's Quest one would be like a really good one because yeah, like it's like, all right, well the dagger isn't in like the, you know, the, the dagger isn't in that hole.
00:18:26
Speaker
ah Like there's all sorts of stuff. Like there's a lot of King's Quest one and two for that matter. Like there's, there's stuff that is just like kind of hidden in a, like a hole or like in a log or like whatever.
00:18:42
Speaker
And so I think Kings Quest 1 is a really good option for a randomizer. You would have to, like, whoever, you know, did it would have to put, like, some stuff in to make sure that you don't, like, lock players.
00:18:58
Speaker
But... Yes. Like... Because now I'm just like, all right, well, what... other games kind of have like that treasure hunt aspect because as you said like it's like with legend of like with the legend of zelda games like linked to the past i think is like the major randomizer game and i uh super metroid those are both games where like you're running around like a large open space and like you're getting stuff and uh like uh in ah like Link to the Past, it's like, oh, where you thought like the boomerang or whatever is, is like now it's some other thing.
00:19:37
Speaker
Like, I feel like a Maniac Mansion randomizer could work really Oh, Maniac Mansion would be good. i was trying to think of LucasArts games that would fit for it. And that's one that, I mean, already Legend of Kyrandia is just a big old weird randomizer.
00:19:51
Speaker
And that's terrible. I mean, as it might be interesting. mean, maybe this exists and I'm just not aware of it. I feel like in maybe a Zork style game, that way you could play with that. That next thing. Colossal Cave, absolutely.
00:20:05
Speaker
Get away with some degree of like procedurally generating something like that, you know, in a in a simple dungeon crawl type treasure collector.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um just to have chat GPT do it. I can't even ironically suggest that. Yeah, know. I didn't feel good since I said it. um ah But like, yeah, like a Colossal Cave or a, like, so, and you could say that the the the new Colossal Cave, like the remake, which I played on my stream and I had a very fun time, honestly. I did it in VR, which was actually quite cool.
00:20:46
Speaker
yeah I thought it was like, you know, I didn't think it was like the greatest game I've ever played or anything. I thought it was like a cute little trifle, which is kind of the vibe they were going for. Yeah, that feels... Just kind of like a fun little thing.
00:21:03
Speaker
Yeah. ah You know, not everything has to be like Gabriel Knight 1. Like, it's, you know, not like or Gabriel Knight 2. How about Gabriel Knight 3?
00:21:14
Speaker
Um... No, just one or two. Okay. But, uh...
00:21:20
Speaker
i Anyway, like, yeah, I mean, Maniac Mansion definitely work for It's a game with just stuff laying around places. is It's also a game where already you're dealing with like a bunch of different scenarios based off of like the characters that you select.
00:21:39
Speaker
So already now, like whatever your strategy is going to be, because like you're like, oh, I always play with ah Bernard and Sid Um, now like, it's like, you know, all that, that shit's going to be moved around and mixed up.
00:21:55
Speaker
How about, because it's like, you, it has to, I think for a randomizer to work, it has to be like kind of a big open space.
00:22:07
Speaker
So it's like for LucasArts stuff, you'd want to think all of the LucasArts games, uh, like at a point, like have that, like the, the middle of the game where you're in like a big open space and like you have three tasks that you can kind of do in any order. So it's like monkey Island two, you could probably conceivably do something like that with, yeah But with Monkey Island, I it feel like it's so woven into the story. It's so a story. Because I was thinking it's like the Monkey Island section of Secret of Monkey Island might work. But then it's like, I don't know if the banana picker isn't in the, you know, the the cannibal's hut.
00:22:50
Speaker
yeah It sort of breaks the whole story of interacting with them. And yeah, just yeah it creates this weird sort of butterfly effect.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. It's full of butterflies. It's like, you know, like sam and Max has that opens like the middle, like all the LucasArts games have like a big open middle segment.
00:23:16
Speaker
But very few of them just have the like, here's something laying on the ground that you need to go pick up and give to somebody, which like that's the King's Quest 1, King's Quest 2 kind of vibe, right? That's what makes them so perfect. And Quest for Glory, I feel like has a little bit of that as well. So, I mean, I'd imagine you could randomize Quest for Glory 2. Maybe that's already already out there as well. I have no idea, but...
00:23:37
Speaker
No, this is interesting. I should, I should experiment with that. i'm like I may, know, talk to our folks in the discord and see what I should be prepared to, to expect with that. And maybe I'll play randomized question glory one.
00:23:51
Speaker
All right. Well, you know, ah maybe you will, and ah maybe you'll play that, but you know, I'm, I'm not worried about what you're, you're playing. ah but but but but What are you playing now?
00:24:05
Speaker
Nailed it. Great seg. Incredible dismount. Ten is all around. Absolutely. um Ben, i have recently started playing The Last of Us Part 1 and have really been enjoying it.
Game Experiences: The Last of Us & Dead Cells
00:24:22
Speaker
Now, a lot of you who are longtime listeners may go back to the earlier episodes and know Ben and I raved about The Walking Dead.
00:24:29
Speaker
We love good zombie apocalypse. This is why i was shocked that you're enjoying it because I honestly watched someone like start to play once and I was like, nope. You know, I think the fact that I've watched the show, i've never played the Last Honestly, you've watched the show, though.
00:24:47
Speaker
I've watched the show. okay Actually, assigned it my class last semester. We watched it as a class and used it the basis for a lot of our discussion about politics of the undead class.
00:25:02
Speaker
think knowing where the story is going because of that makes it less stressful. Because when we talked about Walking Dead, one of the things I said that really got me was like this sort of problem of playing games where there is like a daughter coded character who is placed in constant peril.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah. That stresses me out, it makes me uneasy, and sort of Clementine constantly being, you know, on the verge of being eaten by zombies. Yeah. Kind made Walking Dead stressful experience for me. Yeah, I'm not even a dad, let alone a dad of, like, I, like, let alone, like, have, like, a daughter.
00:25:41
Speaker
such as you do, and that was too stressful for me playing Walking Yeah, but I know Last of Us, she has some plot armor just because I've watched enough of the series to know that Ellie is okay. And it's a pretty fantastic game. Like, it's it's beautiful. it's It's got some really nice acting in the cut scenes, some good voice work, mocap, all that sort of stuff.
00:26:05
Speaker
Honestly, you know, I usually bounce off of AAA games so fast. Even ones I enjoy, I'll play four hours of a AAA game, be like, yeah, I know what what this is like. That's about enough for me. And so far, I'm really digging it. Last of Us is is kind of right my alley for a genre normally I don't play around with anymore.
00:26:26
Speaker
So, yeah. Do you ever play any of the Uncharted games? No. that same developer? Yeah, I've never done any Naughty Dog game, as far as I know, until now. Yeah, I've never done Far Cry. Not Far Cry. Uncharted. I played Uncharted 2 on my PlayStation 3 when it came out.
00:26:47
Speaker
And it was very impressive. Like, it like everyone went nuts for Uncharted 2 when it came out at the time. Yeah. Cinematic action, right? That's the whole deal? Yeah, and it's like set piece to set piece to set piece to set piece, and they're all very entertaining.
00:27:02
Speaker
And, like, and so i I, like, I haven't played it since that came out, and then they didn't re ah real re-release it to the PC, so I may never know if Uncharted 2 is good. i accidentally bought Uncharted 4 for the PC thinking it was a collection of one to three.
00:27:26
Speaker
Isn't there a collection now for There it is for the PlayStation. I thought there was for PC too. I thought there was as well. Huh.
00:27:36
Speaker
Well, there you go. No. Wow. But no, it's pretty good. It's fun stuff. I like it. I think if I watched the show, it would disarm that for me too. It does. It helps a lot.
00:27:48
Speaker
I mean, yeah it's a big relief because yeah, i just, don't know, just not what's going to happen to Clem at any moment in Walking Dead, just like, oh, it's too much. But Ben, what have you been playing? I bet you haven't been playing Last of Us.
00:28:02
Speaker
Oh, no. I've been dipping back into Dead Cells.
00:28:19
Speaker
You know, it's just a good game. It's just fun. Have you ever played Ghost Sells? Sometimes it's just good game. No. I don't know.
00:28:31
Speaker
i mean... So I'm not a particularly great, ah like, kind of twitchy, difficult platform player. Yeah. ah Like, I'm not good at, like, memorizing a lot of patterns or whatever.
00:28:46
Speaker
But, like, I never got into any of the FromSoft games or anything like that. But for some reason, Dead Cells, and I think, like, and I think the reason that everybody's, like, went nuts over Dead Cells Um, Dead Cells has just really tight feeling controls.
00:29:10
Speaker
It just feels good to play. It looks good. It sounds good. Like, you know, like a good roguelike. There's always like, so even if you're not doing well, there's always that nice, like kind of drip of like new stuff that you're, you're getting, uh, by playing it.
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, like, You know, Dead Cells is just so like, there there are a couple of like, and I have all the DLC for it and like so some of the DLC levels I don't like, you know, they they they don't quite feel as good,
00:29:49
Speaker
in general, like a lot of like the weapons and like i even parry in the game and i don't even parry a lot of You've never parry, Ben. I've been very clear about my beliefs about parrying and blocking in any game. Any moment you're parrying or blocking is a moment you're not currently winning the game.
00:30:09
Speaker
Nobody's ever won by blocking so good. It's gotten me into parrying. ah But I will say that I turned on and it does have a bunch of like kind of like, you know, make this easier options. And one of them is like a wider Perry zone.
00:30:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
the refrigerator Perry zone. Oh, yeah. Like this backs up that Perry zone like God damn. Anyway,
00:30:46
Speaker
Uh, this dump truck Perry zone.
00:30:52
Speaker
this milkshake of a Perry zone.
00:30:59
Speaker
God damn.
00:31:03
Speaker
There you go. You said it, Ben. Yeah. The dog pound is, uh, is erupting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:15
Speaker
Man, I saw that parry zone and I knew I said it had a piece. Anyway, Dead Cell. Good parry zones.
00:31:26
Speaker
Also, Free Cell. Great game as well.
00:31:31
Speaker
When did you get that one? When did you, when did you, when did it pop into your head, I'm going to make a Free Cell joke? Because it wasn't just then. You had, Free Cell flew in there and you were like, all right, when am I going to say this?
00:31:45
Speaker
Honestly, when you said Dead Cell, I had a moment where I was like, is that like one of the solitaire games that comes with Windows for a second? And it's just been kicking around in my head ever since then. i that That just had the feel. And i'm I'm teasing, but only because this is exactly how my brain works.
00:32:01
Speaker
Is that like you get the joke and then it's it's it's just burning in your head. i didn't hear a word you said for the last four minutes. It's just like, when can I? It's just kind of.
00:32:13
Speaker
It's been going to be quite long enough for me to get this, this short two syllable word. Like it's, it's, it's, you know, i then like, you know, at the end of it, it's like, you know, and and I love, I love dead cells because it reminds me of ah my, my aunt who passed away from cancer and free cells.
The Evolution of Copy Protection in Gaming
00:32:38
Speaker
I'm sorry. What then? free cells free cells once heard someone say that the secret to good podcasting is active listening and i don't know what the opposite of active listening is but that's me as soon as there's like something that percolating in my head like ah i'm actively trying to drown you out so i don't lose it so yeah i've had that one cocked and loaded for little while because it's just like well if i start to pay attention to you i might forget this incredible joke i did I did hear a little bit of the thick Perry zone bit, and it sounded very funny. The yeah intonation of your voice, whatever it was you were saying, sounded a lot like a joke.
00:33:19
Speaker
Yeah, like there was a lot of joke sounds. Like cadence of a joke, yeah. Out of my mouth, ah you know. All right.
00:33:30
Speaker
Uh, it's, uh, we've been recording now for, for a bit. So I guess we should probably talk about what the name of this, uh, this podcast individual title is. We're talking about copy protection.
00:33:43
Speaker
You love it. You can't get enough of it. ah So copy protection, ah what that was for for our younger audience that I'm sure a lot of people who don't know what copy protection is listen to this podcast.
00:33:59
Speaker
ah but But let's say that ah you were dropped on your head and you forgot. In order to ah discourage ah the the scourge of ah piracy, ah they would...
00:34:15
Speaker
ah put i like things that were not ah contained within the the game files themselves. So it would be in like a manual or like something else that came in the box of the game. A feely of some sort. Like a code wheel or whatever.
00:34:33
Speaker
um Something i and ah that made it. ah So it's like, When you played the game, you had to to pull out this thing that came with the box, which if i you had ah illegally ah copied it or downloaded it from a BBS or whatever.
00:34:58
Speaker
a VBS. What? Or a VBS, a Vacation Bible School, if you got there. Oh, yeah. If you got it from ah the disc trading ah underground at a Vacation Bible School.
00:35:10
Speaker
um i like you wouldn't ah be able to, to, to play it. And this was like, what was, what was the game ah that I think it was ah like, I forget which interview ah yeah it was where like, it might've been Ken Williams or might've been L Lowe or Josh Mandel said, it's like,
00:35:39
Speaker
ah they knew that ah Leisure Suit Larry was their their most, like one of their most popular games because they sold more like hint books than they sold copies of the game. yes That was Leisure Suit Larry, right? Yes, Leisure Suit Larry 1. Yeah, the the idea that piracy was rampant enough with that game that supposedly they sold more hint books than they did copies of the game. yeah That seems insane to me because it's also Leisure Suit Larry 1 or as our friends across the pond call it, Leisure Suit Larry 1.
00:36:09
Speaker
this um ah like it's not like in terms of adventure game difficulty the it isn't not the hardest like especially when you're playing all the other shit that they were putting out yeah i mean part of me wonder that sounds like a really good story maybe like the ratio yeah maybe the ratio is much bigger than most their tiles i can't imagine that's i've always thought that was questionable yeah i'm putting al low on blast right i'm calling that quest questionable
00:36:43
Speaker
Yes, it is quest questionable. ah Trademark that, Ben. Yeah, I've i've already ah put it on and envelope and I am going to mail it to myself tomorrow.
00:36:54
Speaker
ah Ben, were you a pirated software family?
00:37:00
Speaker
Am I allowed to say this on the podcast? or the Statue of limitations. you're yeah i mean ah youre You're a minor also. Yeah, your parents would go to prison. Still, I'm a minor. I'm a I'm I'm a minor. And also, you can't say anything mean to me.
00:37:16
Speaker
um I'm you're just a a small being. I'm just a small being. ah Just a little guy. It's your birthday. Yeah, it is my birthday ah today. And I'm small and my birthday, but it is not a birthday into being an adult.
00:37:30
Speaker
Now, I'm not going to admit to any crime doing, but I will say that ah when I backed Hero U twice because they had a second Kickstarter, i I backed it extra because I had some residual guilt.
00:37:47
Speaker
uh and i wanted to give the coals extra money ah but maybe it was residual guilt uh for other ah wrongs i might have done to the coals playing as a thief the morally bankrupt class yeah and uh in quest for glory yeah yeah it was because i played as a thief and yeah i mean they knew that laurie and cory thought uh uh poorly of me we mostly we we we bought most of this stuff but I mean, I won't say that I had a lot of pirated software as a kid. I will say we had a lot of the rare limited edition versions of these adventure games that came with the special handwritten labels on them. The the very hard to come. Yeah, those were really hard to come Yeah. So I did like, yeah, i mean, i don't know. Like I'm thinking i'm kind of looking at my big box collection as ah as I say this.
00:38:36
Speaker
um i know i definitely had a pirated copy of space quest two and three ah i think all of my leisure suit larry games up to five were pirated did he buy a book no no i wasn't going to contribute to that uh i never bought him book once uh parents weren't going to pay for a hemp book they paid for a game you think they're going for a handbook on top of that the game's supposed to keep me busy But, yeah, no, I don't think I pirated any Quest for Glory LucasArts games. I may pirated Monkey Island 2.
00:39:10
Speaker
ah I don't know how I would have with a code wheel situation, though, because that's what that code wheel was there to There were ways to get around that. Yeah. I mean, I had some software that was just cracked, you know, which is something that used to exist back then. So here's the thing, is that actually, like, I would...
00:39:28
Speaker
You know, this is one of those things where as an adult, I'm i'm realizing, like I'm putting things together. i we would I would lose manuals all the time. And I just have a feeling that my dad would just clean up like all the shit on the computer desk by like just throwing it in the trash.
00:39:46
Speaker
Because I would just be like, like, where'd the manual go? and not be able to play this game that we actually purchased. Wow. I mean, that's the thing with copy protection. It can lock somebody out wrongly as well.
00:40:01
Speaker
I mean, and there are, of course, ah like I was thinking about this, you know, some of the early Sierra games like that were on booter discs, some of them actually had like, you know, disc based. Yes. Copy protection where just like, you simply can't play it if you don't have the original disc. Right. and It can distinguish a copy, but that's a boring kind copy protection to talk about. We i like,
00:40:19
Speaker
I had to crack games that I actually owned, like, and had paid my own money for because i couldn't find, like, the manual or the code wheel.
00:40:31
Speaker
Like... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a sad world to live in. ah but I mean, yeah, software piracy, of course, was the kind thing that cut deeply into these companies profits, you know, it's, ah and they claim, you know, there was enough of this going around that they felt like it was impacting their sales, they, they worked hard to convince us not to copy those floppies.
00:40:54
Speaker
but nevertheless I got a lot of stolen software as a kid just through friends through uh friends of my parents uh you know just uh just sort of here's here's some discs kid with uh with some Larry games on them um so the ah yeah and like the the the thing about i like the the the the copy protection, is that it it was pretty much mostly a floppy disk era thing.
00:41:33
Speaker
Once we entered CDs, largely, not entirely, but largely, copy protection of this type went away.
00:41:45
Speaker
Now, of course... Oh God. was just saying CD burners yeah were so beyond the reach of the average home user at the beginning of the CD-ROM age. that Yeah. like i say They were considered yeah outrageously expensive thing.
00:42:03
Speaker
And then also like eat the, because remember when we got our first CD burner, um the first ones, they'd also take forever.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah. Burn a CD. Like I remember by the time, like by the earlier mid aughts, when I had a, like a CD burner on my like college PC, um like it would, it would like burn a CD in like five minutes or something. And I was like, wow, that's blazingly fast.
00:42:33
Speaker
um But, but I remember like the very first CD burner that we had um ah was like glacially slow.
00:42:45
Speaker
Um, now, uh, so that mostly like, and of course, you know, this isn't to say that copy protection stuff, uh, stopped existing and doesn't exist today.
00:42:58
Speaker
It's just that the way that exists today is in like, you know, the Securum and all that, that shit that like just completely, uh, destroys, uh, the security on your PC or whatever, like, you know, it goes to the kernel level and,
00:43:14
Speaker
ah probably fucks up your computer in all sorts of ways and we just tolerate it. ah Or it just stops being supported properly like games for Windows and it just breaks a whole bunch of titles 10 or 12 years after they came out. Yeah, copy protection now...
00:43:29
Speaker
as frustrating as it could be back in the 80s and 90s, it's just as bad in different ways nowadays. Because, I mean, not all copy protections create equally, right? I mean, there's good and bad copy protection. Ben, you said that you'd, before we started, you said you jotted down some different kinds. Yeah, I, so...
00:43:50
Speaker
and this is And this isn't a like manual code wheel feely. This is like how different types of copy protection integrate into different games. Yeah. And so the the the very first one I figured we could talk about and mostly because there's not a lot of discussion to be had about it, is the most basic, which is like straightforward, like normal, what's in the manual stuff.
00:44:18
Speaker
And so like the most basic ones would be in like, I think of like King's Quest 4. Third word of the fourth paragraph on the second page. Yeah, like Day of the Tentacle, ah where like you kind of fill in like the blueprint stuff.
00:44:36
Speaker
uh, uh, like, again, that's a thing that was only in the disc version on the CD version. Like, so on the Lucas, uh, games on the Lucas arts games that had it, when there was a CD version, I think generally all of them, I don't recall if this was across the board, but I think in general, because I think Sam and Max disc had,
00:44:59
Speaker
uh a uh a copy protection don't even remember it did i believe it was like matcha thing yeah was it the cut out paper dolls thing that was turned into copy protection yeah i think so or am i imagining that i say that and that doesn't sound like i have a vague yeah recollection but yeah like so this is the most basic thing it's like there's a manual and this was i think what you would say was probably the most like standard one, right? Like, yeah, it's the lowest cost. It doesn't, i mean, you're already printing a manual anyway, right?
00:45:38
Speaker
It doesn't require much creativity. It doesn't require an extra Philly to be inserted into the box. It's easy tech. I imagine to work into your game. Yeah. Just ask people to enter a word from the manual, probably good enough, but also,
00:45:54
Speaker
not very charming. No. And I jet in any way. i don't know if the diet diegetic stuff is as much as it's like, you could also though. I mean, with the, the, the ones that are better integrated, that still has this problem, but it's like, the thing is, is that I like,
00:46:14
Speaker
is that that the the limit of that is that someone could just make a text file where they write down all 20 different words. all twenty different like words Which is what Sierra eventually did when it republished yeah these games in their collections. Because it's like, well, too expensive to include the original manuals.
00:46:35
Speaker
And if we reprint them, you know, with different pagination, it's not going to work either. So we'll just give you a list of all the possible combinations. Yeah. And it was like, I don't know, 30, you know, it wasn't very much.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah. um So then the next one I have down here, and these are all kind of like, I just have four written down. Okay. And so if you have ah like a difference is i would say ones that are more kind of story.
00:47:04
Speaker
And so this isn't. So the one after this is puzzle, which is different. I'm saying story. So it's like where,
00:47:15
Speaker
ah the the The copy protection is like kind of ah like I think of Longbow, Conquest of Longbow or Conquest of Camelot, where information in the manual is relevant to the story in a, like, in a way that, like, you have to complete it.
00:47:45
Speaker
Like, it's like you have to know something from the manual... um like like a bit of lore uh-huh uh in order to progress the game and that that is kind of a puzzle which i'm saying is the next thing but i think this is a different i think this is different yeah and i would even argue there's a tiny little bit of that even in like the famous adventures correspondence school manuals that came with the quest for glory where you might get something that feels like a little hint in a monster or a spell description, you know, it may not necessarily be necessary to complete the game.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yeah. Conquest, both of those games actually have information that it would be pretty hard to complete the game. If you didn't have the manual. I think it's impossible. Yeah. i mean, unless you just happen to know hand code, yeah and which I did going into lot of kids didn't.
00:48:37
Speaker
I use hand code all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm using hand code right now. Yeah, that's been put that finger down. That's rude.
00:48:48
Speaker
But yeah, no, mean, and I love those manuals. I will say conquest of Camelot conquest of the longbow. gra Amazing. I think I i don't know if ive mentioned this on the podcast before, but in high school, actually used and cited the conquest of the longbow manual in a research paper I did about Robin Hood myths.
00:49:12
Speaker
uh which i mean it was a pretty impressive see me on on that paper i'm i'm sorry uh uh jess uh this is too embarrassingly nerdy yeah one time i got that didn't happen but ben let me tell you i did have a adventure game related dispute with an english teacher one time in high school yeah This English teacher assured me that the second person as yeah first person, second person, third person, that the second person did not exist. There was first person writing.
00:49:47
Speaker
I am doing this. And there's third person writing. This character is doing this. And I made a strong case that there was absolutely second person writing, which there is. Yeah, there is. Yeah.
00:49:58
Speaker
but No question. This English teachers did. I was clearly smarter than my English teacher. And I was just like dunking all over her left and right. Yeah. ah But i I use the example of like adventure games. Like if it says you are walking through a castle, you see exits to the west and north and east.
00:50:16
Speaker
um That's clearly in second person it is described. And she's like, that's nonsense, Jess. And video games aren't grammar. That's right. They aren't. That's a tough stuff. That's a tough stance. But yeah, those are charming manuals. There's a lot to enjoy about them, but yeah, you're necessary to beat the game. You're going grail grail diary in, uh, uh, Indiana Jones, the last crusade.
00:50:37
Speaker
Like again, it's not necessarily a puzzle. Like you need it to identify the grill. Yeah. ah because that will that's a ran that's a game with randomized stuff yes it is that's a really good point and know actually as i was drawing like drawing up some notes for this i had a list of like a short list of what i thought of as like gold standard copy protection and the grail diary from last crusade was on my gold standard i mean it's the kind of thing that you could just sit down and enjoy reading i remember like as a kid what i used to love
00:51:11
Speaker
doing when I would get a new game because I live pretty far away from my nearest software stores. A lot of times I'd be in the car for 30 minutes, an hour after I got a game before I could get back to my computer and actually play it.
00:51:24
Speaker
And seeing in the backseat of my car, ah reading through the Grail diary as I'm rushing home to get a chance to play this game. Oh man, that's good stuff. That's bit of copy protection that ultimately I didn't mind that much because Oh man, the Grail Diary is such a part of the movie and it's such a nicely done, ah you know, sort of attempt to turn that into a game feeling.
00:51:49
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, do you want to move on to the next one or is there another like kind of story involved one that those were some of the ones that I thought of there as well? I mean, maybe would, maybe you have a different category for this. I feel like maybe the map and of Shapir and quest for glory too. Oh, I don't know. i you know, that's, Hmm.
00:52:12
Speaker
Because that I guess I would call that kind of story involved. It's closer. Yeah, I mean. Because it's not a puzzle. Yeah, exactly. And theoretically, you can get to the money changer with, you know, just a little bit of effort.
00:52:28
Speaker
Well, you can ask. No, you can ask. ah Yeah, that's true. Ali Chico. Because the thing is that that's the only actual way that you know how to get there. Because that the the locations are not on the map.
00:52:42
Speaker
Like yeah you can take a guess looking at the map because there are certain little like alleys that are little odd turns. And so that like, you could probably look at the map of Shapir from quest for glory two And, uh, like, you know, make a couple educated guesses as to where there are like, where the like astrologer is and where wit is, et cetera.
00:53:09
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, but Ellie, Ellie Chica, ah tells you, like, you can ask him and he tells you how to get there. He's like, go down the street. You take a left, you take another life. You take a right, you go like past.
00:53:24
Speaker
So he tells you, uh, like it's still a total pain in the ass to navigate in that game without the map like it is yeah it's not a necessity but it's gonna make your life a lot easier it makes yeah it's such a it's it's such it's so miserable um it you know and i think with these story ones it's kind of fun because it's also it's like you know, ah in in the same way that like a feely is kind of fun. Like it gives you kind of this thing that you're interacting with outside of like your computer, like this thing that you're touching, this this map that you're pouring through this diary. Yeah. um
00:54:09
Speaker
So the next thing I had, as I said, is puzzle involved. So that would be ah ah King's Quest 6, logical steps.
00:54:23
Speaker
Also, this wasn't said at all at the beginning, but this was inspired. This is a request a ques ah from that that email from Yop that we received a couple episodes ago. um I'm just realizing now. So thank you for giving us ah this this episode idea, Yop.
00:54:40
Speaker
um Yes. we We inserted that here toward the middle of the podcast to make sure that you're listening all the way through. That's right. That's right. Yeah. It's um I. Oh, and he ah he had a couple. He had a couple things ah that he listed off, which is I'll.
00:55:00
Speaker
i'll He listed Cliffs of Logic in King's Quest VI, which is a puzzle. And then a couple of these, which like, so there's the red magnifying glass and the Colonel's Bequest.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yes, that's one I really like. kind had a category of like gimmicks ah for that one. The magnifying glass where you look at fingerprints. and then try to match them on screen. I found that one a little frustrating in the sense that sometimes the onscreen fingerprint it's done.
00:55:31
Speaker
Didn't precisely match what you see on the printed. wow I guess it was at the back of a map of the plantation is where all that yellow code window stuff is. I mean, I would say the code wills for monkey Island, you know, have that sort of gimmicky vibe, but maybe you have them at a different category, but I love the, I kind of love the,
00:55:51
Speaker
fingerprints even if they are a little hard to read there's uh yeah and that's like kind of like the first category and then a little bit like it integrates as you were saying um uh yop brings up this game that i have not heard of uh uh called black hawk uh the adventures of black hawk I think this is it. Never heard of it either. came out ah last year, i think.
00:56:21
Speaker
If this is, I'm looking at ah the the Steam. it has a, looks like this is, going to send you. Interesting. um ah ill I'll put this in our ah Discord to each other. This actually it looks kind of interesting.
00:56:37
Speaker
It does. It does. uh, like there's a little bit of it that looks a little bit, um, what's that? Like the, the, the King Arthur, cinema where, yeah. Like defenders. Yeah. the Defender of the kingdom.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah. Um,
00:56:59
Speaker
uh but then like a lot of it has a very lucas uh a very lucas yeah definitely um as a checkpoint just like last crusade i i was thinking of uh monkey island too um oh yeah there you go but but yop says that this game if this is uh the correct one um Yop says that it has ah quote, very annoying copy protection to relive ah the fun past, which prevented me from playing it for more than five minutes.
00:57:37
Speaker
You know, I gotta that's like, um, you know, i i am, um, curious kind of want to check that out now want to see what this game that came out last year uh that has a copy ah like copy protection in it like as a little like a throwback that's that's like You know, that like I could see that going either way, you know? it Depends on how well it's done. Yeah, i mean, I like the idea. I mean i love that idea.
00:58:16
Speaker
someone who made a troll game mess myself, I get the yeah appeal of trolling people with unnecessary copy protection. So yeah, more power to you. and then Adventures of the Blackhawk.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yop also mentioned this game, a Shadow of the Comet, ah which was a game that came out in 1993. And it's, i quote, it's actually a little cardboard box with a lens in one end and 176 pictures of constellations, many of which which look alike at the other.
00:58:50
Speaker
You have to squint into the viewer and identify two of the damn things every time you start the game. wow
00:59:00
Speaker
That is, that's pretty wild. you know, do you remember, ah yeah i streamed this a few months ago. Did you ever see the copy protection on the stealth affair? The John Glaims, James Bond point and click adventure? I recall...
00:59:16
Speaker
I recall seeing it, but I don't remember specifically. It was like a big abstract art piece that was also in the manual. And it like had all the colors stripped out of it.
00:59:27
Speaker
And it would like point to a little segment of this abstract art piece, like a little swirl or something and say in our full color manual, what color is this? And oftentimes like it was unclear, but section they were pointing toward and the colors weren't exactly the same on the manual. Colorblind in any way. It's going be totally inaccessible. Yeah. It was a weird one. The game itself i didn't have any, like that was like the last time you dealt with anything that was so ah thoughtless in the design of the game. That's the kind of game that if you don't have the necessary materials for the copy protection, of course, the reason that was good copy protection in theory was,
01:00:06
Speaker
Nobody had a copier, much less a color copier. It would be impossible to replicate like a 16 color image. Yeah. yeah I mean, that's that's beyond anyone's ability. So they're meticulously tracing. But that the like good side of that is if you can't get into the game, you don't have to play the stealth affair.
01:00:25
Speaker
Yeah. ah So going back is ah to the the list I have here is a puzzle involved. So I said King's Quest six. I would also say. Codename Iceman.
01:00:40
Speaker
I feel like police quest and code name Iceman fall really neatly into this category. Like this puzzle, almost procedural element where it's like, you have to give a girl on the beach some CPR and code name Iceman. Oh, I was referring to ah the the part where you have to decode the messages that you've got. Lord. That's right. Yeah. Because like giving, like giving this woman CPR that, that is,
01:01:11
Speaker
that's something I would put that more in like kind of story or straightforward. Yeah. Codename Iceman. And we talked about this extensively with our friend, uh, Grayson in that episode is that Codename Iceman has like this puzzle copy protection, which like, so you have to,
01:01:34
Speaker
like decode a message that you receive i and like the, the information on how to decode it, like, or like the, the, the the code cipher or whatever and yeah is in the manual. So you have to kind of go through and kind of go like, okay, so this is this and this is this, and this is this like,
01:01:58
Speaker
And it requires like you're solving something with. So it's kind of like the longbow Camelot stuff. Yeah. more like kind of straightforwardly puzzle forward.
01:02:12
Speaker
There's a puzzle here where like you're doing like a bunch of deduction. it kind of sounds like I'm saying the same thing, but I feel like this is different.
01:02:24
Speaker
No. And I mean, that's one too. i mean, again, I think part of copy protection when it goes wrong, it's frustrating. And on that one, like, i remember when we streamed this together a few months ago, um you had a walkthrough, we had a copy of the manual.
01:02:42
Speaker
we were working back and forth trying to get this, these prefixes and codes and everything put in. And we still failed on multiple ah attempts because it was just frustrating and kind pain in the ass to do. Yep.
01:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, it was just total. I mean, that's bad copy protection. i mean, when you have all the materials necessary, we were legally playing a copy from battledgames.com, BOG.
01:03:10
Speaker
ah and it was still difficult to complete which that's bad that's not good copy protection yeah Ben would you put also something like the spells from King's Quest 3 in this category hmm
01:03:31
Speaker
uh that's one of my favorite pieces of I don't know if I call it that I would put that more in the story stuff because you're not really solving like it's just like that's because that's more of like a checklist yeah it really is uh interesting you know and again this is all arbitrary I'm sure like there's at least one or two people listening to this it's like Ben you fucking asshole you're wrong um we get a lot of emails like that and Ben never picks them for our email say segment uh Would you like to hear the next one I have down?
01:04:04
Speaker
ah would. Accidental copy protection. There are two games I can think of. Okay, tell me, tell me, tell me. ah The first one, this is kind of famous, ah Space Quest VI.
01:04:14
Speaker
This is game, and I know the story you're going to tell, Jess. ah i ah A game where it came out on CD.
01:04:26
Speaker
you yeah We're well past the manual copy protection era. Yes. No one is pirating space quest six. Well, yeah, people weren't pirating space quest six for, you know, many reasons.
01:04:40
Speaker
Um, and, uh, so, ah but, uh, because it had kind of a tortured, uh, development, which involved like a handoff from one person, uh, designing it to another.
01:05:01
Speaker
yeah At one point, ah the second ah designer, who I believe was Scott Murphy, cut out a segment that would contain all the information to solve a puzzle.
01:05:15
Speaker
Yes. So they didn't realize that this information and, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're the space quest expert. They call me the space quest historian. Oh, is that true?
01:05:27
Speaker
That's what they used to call me. Oh, OK. Cool. You know, maybe i'll I'll call you SQH for short. Yes. um i But i that when they realized that this information was missing, they were like, ah it's in the manual now. It's copy protection.
01:05:50
Speaker
Yes. What's the story that you like to tell about this? um Well, later on, ah when Sierra ah published the Space Quest collection that included Space Quest VI, they once again forgot that this was a copy protection. I mean, this is it's wild, first of all, that the development was such a mess that you could cut out a section of the game that was necessary for its completion.
01:06:17
Speaker
And everyone the project was so just discombobulated that that kind of sailed by without anybody noticing it until last minute. But yeah, when they create, they released the Space Quest collection with Space Quest six, it did not include the necessary copy protection. So now everyone who bought that collection can't complete Space Quest six. And of course, at the time I was running a Space Quest fan site.
01:06:41
Speaker
ah And that meant I was getting every day, i would say five or six people emailing me asking me for the solution. A lot of emails.
01:06:52
Speaker
That's why emails, I mean, for, know, 1997, you know, that's a fair bit of of email. And I was just constantly having to reply. At first, I replied, I can't help you with that because it's copy protection. But then when I realized CR had screwed up, I started emailing people the solutions. And then eventually I put it on my website and CR asked me not to do that.
01:07:13
Speaker
And I took it off the website. And then I waited a few years just put it back up. And It's just a silly puzzle that ended up in the manual, the popular janitronics manual, which lately I've been calling. Somehow my brain has overwritten popular janitronics with what I believe to be a funnier joke.
01:07:33
Speaker
I think in my head every time I start talking about this manual that it's popular janitalia. which I think is a much funnier. that's, paddle that's, that's pretty good. Yeah. Popular Jantelia, I think needs to be used. you know, they, uh, space quest really needed, low to come in there and do a little punch up.
01:07:54
Speaker
You know, that like, you know, that if Al was in the room, that wouldn't, that that's exactly what would have happened. Yeah, I mean, that would have been like the subtitle of the game. ah no Forget Spinal Frontier.
01:08:07
Speaker
Or where in, what is it, Corporal Santiago? Yes, Wolko.
01:08:15
Speaker
i think that funny i think that's a funny name. i i i'm ah yeah i think that's a funny name. I know Josh hated, or or not Josh. I know Scott hated that. I think that was a funny name.
01:08:28
Speaker
While we're picking Fats with Sierra fans, Joe, we've already sort of said that that Leisure Suit Larry sold more hint books than it did copies, which gets reported as fact all the time. I want to take this moment to speak to the people editing like the Sierra fan wikis out there in the world. And I want to say to them, you guys are reporting the idea that Space Quest 7, had it been made, was going to be subtitled The Return to Roman Numerals.
01:08:57
Speaker
And that's simply ah ridiculous claim. There's no way that was going to be the actual name of that game. And wiki editors, you need to realize that was a joke. It was never real.
01:09:09
Speaker
I know it was printed in the collection manual somewhere. That was real. They weren't going call Space Quest 7, the return to Roman New Yeah, that's obviously a joke. and now That's obviously a joke. Obviously a joke that is like...
01:09:22
Speaker
You know, because you could say like, well, it's a comedy series. Of course, it's a joke. But it's like, but that's not what the joke titles like the Spinal Frontier. Like that's a joke title kind of technically.
01:09:35
Speaker
ah But like, you know, like that relates. Return to Roman numerals is Both like a joke that you just kind of say, and also like a working title when you don't really have a game, you have this like sketched out idea of like this impossible multiplayer game that was never going to be made. and Right, right, right.
01:09:59
Speaker
that That just gives you some reason to come to work as your company is being sold to a phone card company and collapsing all around you. Yeah, like, yeah, when when ah the your CEO has sold you out to a guy who ah it like was subject to like a catastrophic series of like lawsuits and all that sort of stuff.
01:10:27
Speaker
Very interesting. I've read, I've read that story like three or four different times written by three or four different people. And it is like frustrating and fascinating every time the most recent, of course it was written on the digital antiquarian so if you're unfamiliar with the fall of sierra uh you know you could look up the digital antiquarian and uh uh jimmy there just wrote uh like his version of this uh but it is such a fascinating
Sierra's Decline and Industry Reflections
01:11:01
Speaker
what a what a miserable way for like this big company to go out like there's a lot of
01:11:07
Speaker
There's a lot of like Because you know it could have just been as easy as like, oh, they put all their money in like the Sierra network, which they did lose a lot of money on the Sierra network.
01:11:18
Speaker
That's not what killed them. Yeah. Like, and like ultimately the debt from that just killed them or they put too much money in their like huge FMV studio and like that killed them or like they spent all their money on like, you know, like a bunch of normal things.
01:11:34
Speaker
They bought the rights to remake E.T. for the Atari 2600. But instead that it like goes out in like the this like... yeah like wolf of wall street style story well just earlier today i was reading an old issue of interaction magazine because you know i live the adventure game lifestyle 24 7 yeah um and it was ken williams's editorial in the issue talking about how cuc had just bought um Sierra and how everything was not only going to be the same as it ever was, but actually better.
01:12:09
Speaker
And it was this very, very wonder and you get the feeling from reading Ken's own book that he had a immediate misgivings. It's like not long after it happened. Like once he started realizing he was like no longer had had a seat at the big table and some things like that. Yeah.
01:12:25
Speaker
yeah but i mean this is this is game farce yeah so i have another i have another example of copy protection via uh like accident okay uh which is that uh beverly hillbillies came with an entire walkthrough because it's impossible
01:12:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, can you make such a bad game that yeah, by necessity, you have to package a walkthrough with it. And it does that become copy protection. If your game is so inscrutable protection, because if, if you can solve, if you can solve that fucking like really any of it, if you can, if you can solve the, uh, the, um, like driving to Beverly Hills puzzle,
01:13:15
Speaker
ah you know, which we talked about in an earlier podcast, like you deserve to, like you, you paid your admission. If you can solve Beverly Hillbillies without any sort of help, you should be locked into a plexiglass prison underground like Magneto was in the X-Men games and have your food slid to you through a little slot every day because you are a dangerous individual who should not be part of society. Yeah.
01:13:44
Speaker
All right. Well, that that was all I had down. Did you have any, any other kind of memorable? Well, you know, I mean, I did think a little bit, you know, the idea of consequences. If you don't get copy protection, correct. Sometimes there's fun stuff like that. Like oh yeah Zach McCracken.
01:14:00
Speaker
ah throws you ah throws you into pirate jail if you enter in some of the plane codes, the exit codes correctly.
01:14:12
Speaker
Goldrush, I think, accuses you of claim jumping and sentences you to gallows if you if you get it wrong. um I think you may have to enter debug mode to do this in King's Quest 4, but in the AGI ah version, there is a screen where if you put in the wrong code, a pirate pops up and it sings or it ah plays the song, what do you do with a drunken sailor? And says, yo-ho-ho, you're a pirate and kicks you out of the game.
01:14:44
Speaker
I think that does have to be in debug mode to make that one happen. ah Star Trek 25th. uh does the bit where you have to have coordinates to jump around to the various planets and stuff yeah if you enter the wrong coordinates it drops you into a space battle with romulans or klingons or pirates or something like that so sometimes i'm saying less fun than the combat in that game so it's a real that is a punishment punishment yeah yeah that's right you've been yeah yeah you've definitely been punished at that point so i think that the idea of having consequences attached to these ah can can be kind of fun. The Zack McCracken jail is actually a pretty funny, like you you get scolded by the game for a while for stealing it, which is honestly pretty funny. ah Yeah.
01:15:29
Speaker
You know, I've recently, as you know, been been playing on my stream just as of last night. Yeah. Another fine capstone product, the L.A. Law ah computer game, the adaptation of the right, the classic ah eighty s ninety s legal drama And it kind of has like the most boring, frustrating ky copy protection, which is to say most of the legal work you do in this game is making phone calls to people to ask them questions. Oh, it's the phone. like is It's just phone directory. It's a phone directory that you're referencing.
01:16:04
Speaker
I would say every... two to three minutes of gameplay. So it's just like a constant. It's a phone directory with like, I don't know, 60 or 70 names in it.
01:16:16
Speaker
um So it's just that sort of, I'm always having to go back to, i mean, Codename Iceman is kind like that too. If you're piloting the ship and figuring out all the procedures and everything like that, there's going be a lot of- Oh, yeah. Yeah. i mean, that that always feel like is a little bit of a bummer.
01:16:33
Speaker
and yeah I did think about like gold standard ones for me. i mentioned before Grail Diary. One all time favorites. ah Secret of Monkey Island Code Will. Code Will's are fun.
01:16:44
Speaker
there They were cute. I bought Secret of Monkey Island at a Sears and Roebuck, like an hour away from my house. That ride home, trying to figure out what in the world I was going to do with that code wheel.
01:16:56
Speaker
Having no context for it whatsoever, I'd never seen a code wheel in another game before. I'm just sitting in the back seat of my parents' Oldsmobile, and I'm just spinning that thing around.
01:17:07
Speaker
No idea it's going to do. Sitting in the back of an Oldsmobile was so cool. Like, those were powerful. for like almost like velveteen seats it was yeah i uh i was in uh i i uh when i was in college i uh road tripped uh in an oldsmobile and like four adults can lay down the back seat one of those things there were there were five of us yeah uh five 20 like 19 20 olds and
01:17:40
Speaker
Like it was so like spacious and comfortable. it was, it was like, You know, it it was, that was such a nice car. Like it was smooth ride because it weighed like nine tons.
01:17:56
Speaker
It was so smooth. This is a, Oh, and if you're purchasing an Oldsmobile, ah use quest quest five at the dealer. um It was such a smooth. Just yell it at them.
01:18:10
Speaker
Quest quest five. the Oldsmobile dealership. Yeah, you have to the the copy protection for this is you have to find an Oldsmobile dealership. Yes. I did say this isn't your father's Oldsmobile.
01:18:23
Speaker
Quest Quest 5. Wink. And they'll know we sent you. Yeah. But no, i mean, that was wonderful as a kid, like just spinning that thing around and not knowing how it was going to be used. I didn't know was copy protection. i was just like, what in the world?
01:18:36
Speaker
It's like, it's easy to line up which faces go with what. But what am I going to use that for? you know, that one's fun. One of all time favorites, uh, that we didn't mention here. And I know Ben, this is one that you care about deeply as well.
01:18:49
Speaker
Uh, the, the Freddie Farkas frontier pharmacist. That's the old the one of the few pieces of adventure game ephemera that I have like on, on the shelf behind me, i have some know a book health and hygiene.
01:19:07
Speaker
So that I would put as, i don't know if I'd call that puzzle involved or story involved because they are like, it's a little bit of both. Um, what I would say about that is I'm not a huge fan of the actual interface of like mixing no, it's not the best. The medicine it's like, it's just a little too touchy. There's so much stuff.
01:19:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm. uh involved it's very like like you know i appreciate it i think it's a like an interesting idea i just don't think it's a lot of fun ah but i will agree the manual uh like has a lot of good jokes because i'm pretty sure it was written by josh mandel who uh wrote a lot great jokes josh The door is open to be on the show.
01:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, Josh, this is Josh all the way. It's fantastic. I mean, if you don't know this manual, it's used to solve some of the puzzles where you're having to do pharmacy work in the game. So it's mostly a list of various medicinal products with descriptions of what they what they do.
01:20:19
Speaker
And a lot of those have fun little gags in them. um And then a list of common ailments. And all this is written like frontier medicine.
01:20:31
Speaker
And it's ah it's just wonderful. Like if you want to hear yeah descriptions of conditions like you know choking or constipation or flatulence and how to test for that. That's one of the puzzles in the game.
01:20:46
Speaker
it as ah As a kid, I thought the description of pregnancy as a medical condition was particularly funny. I have that here. Yeah, please read Josh Mandel. ah In this list of common ailments, pregnancy, quote, a temporary, usually non-fatal condition involving a parasitic embryo, a host female, and a disinterested third party, usually a father.
01:21:10
Speaker
The embryo attaches itself inside the uterus and feeds off the female's blood and other bodily fluids, growing very rapidly, much like a tapeworm, only rounder. Fortunately, the parasite usually detaches itself.
01:21:22
Speaker
See kidney stones for a description of the pain involved in this process within eight to nine months, after which its parasitic and tendencies become largely financial in nature. Fortunately, we now know that pregnancy is entirely preventable simply by staying home on Friday and Saturday nights.
01:21:39
Speaker
I'm here for that. Again, as a as a young teen getting a hold of, uh, the Freddy Farkas manual for the first time, this was just a treasure trove of, of fun comedy for me. And again, the puzzle it ties into, yeah, it's fiddly. It's not real fun.
01:21:58
Speaker
You know, it's energetic. Speaking of pharmacy work, uh, copy protection is the messages that people, because the first thing you do in the game or one of the first things that you do is mix a couple medications for people.
01:22:12
Speaker
and uh like them coming back and saying like i tried your medicine and i still have this problem it's always a funny joke yeah like it's always like a pretty good joke of it's like i'm still have like i still have hemorrhoids and in fact and then they go on to describe something yeah but i mean that's a good one those are three of my all-time favorites ben are there any that like really stand out for you I mean, i loved ah the the the a guide to the Green Isles in ah ah King's Quest VI.
01:22:49
Speaker
Like the logic cliffs, eh, I could take or leave them. But like the the manual itself. And again, like I think like having that and having it like kind of as an external like way of connecting with the game i thought was pretty neat and i still think it's pretty so i just think it's an neat i just think they're neat um all right well uh we've said everything that you possibly can say about uh about copy protection
01:23:26
Speaker
About Quest quest aboutque Quest. This was our final episode. Wow. Man, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, it's been a pleasure, folks. I'm going to do the last best Farscape podcast next.
01:23:39
Speaker
Puppets. It's a great show. ah Have you seen it? I tried like when it was on. It's a first, a but it's a grower, not a shower. The first season's a little slow. This is, this is, it's a Muppet based grower, not a Muppet based shower. I mean, honestly, uh, it is a very horny show that has Muppets in it.
01:24:00
Speaker
Um, so sure. That's like any Muppet show though. but Yeah. I mean, once that sexy pig gets involved. um Oh, man. I mean, we've talked about, we've talked about her before. Yeah. podcast yeah Yeah.
01:24:13
Speaker
yeah Yeah. We have. um But did you know that later this week, they're shutting down Muppet vision 3d at Hollywood studios at the Walt Disney resort in Orlando, Florida.
01:24:24
Speaker
You know, uh i've never like know that so this is i because they announced this like months ago right yeah i remember everybody are you're furious i'm furious where are they replacing it with uh i think a monsters inc attraction so i haven't had anything monsters in a while either and no i know know like why i mean i guess you know Kids don't understand the Muppets anymore. Yeah. well it' has there Well, it's not even a kids today thing. Like, has there been like a truly great Muppet thing?
01:25:02
Speaker
Did you watch the Muppet show? That was like an office workplace comedy came out like a little bit of it. And it wasn't great. Uh, it, Like my understanding of it was that like, it sounded like they were maybe trying to figure it out towards the end.
01:25:20
Speaker
Like it was one of those. It better. But yeah, I mean, yeah. Like, yeah. You know, ah the Muppet batting average, like, you know, ah remarkably basic take.
01:25:33
Speaker
The Muppet batting average never was ever, ever the same after Jim. Like, you know, like this is a pretty basic opinion. uh you know and like i love uh christmas carol uh and if this isn't to say that there haven't been good muppet things uh since uh jim henson passed away well listen how quickly ben's backpedaling on this ben states a hot take and he's like oh muppet fans don't at me bro well yeah if you don't want to ah get on their bad side um uh but also i mean but also i mean uh there's
01:26:11
Speaker
like Farscape, which I had said already, and that's that's a post-gym project. Brian is involved in that. And Farscape is great. Does have a slow first season. It is a grower, not a shower. i yeah Do you see a- Quit saying that.
01:26:28
Speaker
it' You know, it's a grower, not a shower. ah you see a a big Muppet boner? of That's a lot of felt. Yeah, and then and then it becomes a tidier.
Podcast Finale and Future Teasers
01:26:47
Speaker
well anyway this quest quest uh uh our final episode uh last best farscape podcast uh coming up after this with a new co-host the good news is yeah i'll be gone if we're gonna no uh it is it's still gonna be the two of us dragging jess into watching first game with me And he's going to watch it clockwork orange style until he fucking likes it. I've got the eyedropper and the thing that opens up his eyes.
01:27:15
Speaker
You know, i always hated that scene, not because of any particular, like, oh, you know, this is inhumane, but like eye shit always makes me very uncomfortable. um Yeah.
01:27:26
Speaker
Do you wear contacts? No. And I never will. No, you shouldn't. think we had this conversation on this podcast even maybe. Yeah. you probably did uh yeah but but anyway uh please rate review watch us on youtube and twitch uh decaf jedi and ps underscore garrick uh emails at quest quest podcast at gmail.com any uh favorite uh copy protection uh, or anything like that.
01:27:55
Speaker
And, or if you could just email me how to solve the data quarter puzzle, I would appreciate it. Yeah. Because actually Jess has never gotten that far in, in space quest six. Yeah.
01:28:07
Speaker
I really, I just Peter her out before I get to that point. Yeah. Um, And I Roger through. and now ah join us next week where you'll have to go to page five, paragraph three and word 27.
01:28:23
Speaker
We'll see you there.